DUST Search - Hotfix Charlie

All Channels

Feedback/Requests

Hotfix Charlie - Update

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 :: [one page]

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 43 post(s)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3673	Posted - 2014.07.09 18:38:00 - [1] - Quote All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. * Installation buff, with a range and AI review, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement * Small rail range compared to sniper range * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3% * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS * Reduced ADS ISK price Still under tech evaluation * Passive Scan sharing with squads * Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Unfair dall damage calculation Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug Hotfix Delta or later Sidearm rebalance Sniper Rifle review Efficacy bonuses Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

BLOOD Ruler The Lionheart Coalition 476	Posted - 2014.07.09 18:43:00 - [2] - Quote Alright now we're talking Rattati Feel the pain of my knives and the piercing pain your skull has felt to my pistol.I am the Assassin.
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2024	Posted - 2014.07.09 18:44:00 - [3] - Quote Wooo! Finally! Is there any chance that collision damage could be looked at as well? CCP Rattati wrote: * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. I don't think that is necessary. I don't remember the last time I saw a cloaked logi. Fitting a cloak would severely limit fitting options (that's my guess, I never tried) and when they uncloak they don't have much going for them other than surprise. "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32 -- "Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
hfderrtgvcd Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 26	Posted - 2014.07.09 18:52:00 - [4] - Quote Why remove the amarr logis sidearm? It adds variety to the game while remaining balanced. It seems like losing an equipment slot for a sidearm slot is a fair trade. This will also probably anger amarr logis who have heavily invested in sidearms. Also, don't remove ambush oms, remove regular ambush. 50 clones go far too fast. Just remove vehicles and squads from ambush oms and call it ambush. Only other thing I disagree on is giving the small rail turret a range buff. They are already in a good place and this could push them into the overpowered category. Oh one more thing. Be careful with installation AI. It seems to be really inconsistent. I have walked up to hostile turrets and hacked without taking fire, while at other times I have been sniped by rail turrets out of moving LAVs. I have also seen rail turrets take out entire squads.
RedPencil DUST University Ivy League 20	Posted - 2014.07.09 18:55:00 - [5] - Quote * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3% ? HP increase or speed penalty ? BTW: Reactive Plates already out perform by Ferroscale + Repair combo. Want to see more detail on Assault and Scout.
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2024	Posted - 2014.07.09 18:58:00 - [6] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Why remove the amarr logis sidearm? It adds variety to the game while remaining balanced. It seems like losing an equipment slot for a sidearm slot is a fair trade. This will also probably anger amarr logis who have heavily invested in sidearms. Also, don't remove ambush oms, remove regular ambush. 50 clones go far too fast. Just remove vehicles and squads from ambush oms and call it ambush. Only other thing I disagree on is giving the small rail turret a range buff. They are already in a good place and this could push them into the overpowered category. I agree on the Amarr logi. It gives variety. Got nothing to say on ambush. The only thing small rails need is improved hit detection. I noticed today when I started having fun with a Methana with a railgun that quite too often my aim (dot) will be right on target but my shots instead go off to the side somewhere, even while I was stationary. I only noticed this happen when I was shooting at range. "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32 -- "Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2447	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:03:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3% 1-2-3 HP/s repaired? ....or 1-2-3% armor resists!!!

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3679	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:05:00 - [8] - Quote hp/s damnit "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Doyle Reese OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 482	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:05:00 - [9] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3% 1-2-3 HP/s repaired? ....or 1-2-3% armor resists!!! it's %, so it's likely to be speed penalties, which I'm not down with, Reactive Plates are still the worst plates there is
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 470	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:07:00 - [10] - Quote These are really good improvements, I congratulate you on this one Rattati "One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only mk.0 Scouts do that.

LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 252	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:24:00 - [11] - Quote I am glad to see LP payout will be increased. The main reason I avoid FW is because the LP payout is too low.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2397	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:29:00 - [12] - Quote Min assault incoming, but i'll wait till i see the numbers before i spend my SP, i hope in a 4/3 slot layout and a new bonus. PSN: ogamega I'm not a chef, i'm just a man who likes to cook.
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 930	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:32:00 - [13] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Reduce Logi speed slightly Getting the logistics part even more out of the logi-suit . and about well-armored scout suits...I thought the gallente scout already showed how it ruins the actual scout-role, but keep messing around with assault suits as most people will prefer the scout suits.
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 1680	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:32:00 - [14] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * Reduced ADS ISK price I love you, got any numbers yet or still conceptual? Also could you explain the reasoning to remove the amarr logi sidearm? I don't understand.
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2878	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:32:00 - [15] - Quote So are swarm launchers getting passed on again then? Not on even the Delta list? Good list overall though. Glad to see you're also compiling a list of things for a client update. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Forever ETC Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 671	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:34:00 - [16] - Quote Hmm, there is a few things that I feel need to be looked in more, I will address them tomorrow and hope for a reply. The main things I'm concerned with are ambush oms, nanite injectors and OBs. I will address OBs here as it is simple what I propose. WP for Orbital Strike: Squad of three or less- 2,500 Squad of 4 or more- 5,000 WP from Orbital Strike: 1) WP from OB is reduced by half, a kill is worth 25 WP rather than 50 WP. 2) WP from OB does not add for the next OB. Personally I think option 1 should be chosen, but you decide. "Your forefathers fought for the Empress, it is your choice to follow them or not." Captain Dante to "Forever".
Eruditus 920 Prodigy Ops 210	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:37:00 - [17] - Quote Please fix the red line timer bug that results in death at an arbitrary time other than 20 seconds. Dominion over others is given not taken. Nothing has power over you but your own fear.
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 3517	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:41:00 - [18] - Quote Nothing on giving Gallente scout a bonus to damps/amps? I'd also like to see Caldari/Gallente assault suits get a CPU/PG boost. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
RayRay James Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 219	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:46:00 - [19] - Quote When you say you're making all logi equipment slots the same, what does that do to the Gallente Pro Logi and it's 4 slots? Is it losing a slot or is everyone coming up to 4 at that level?
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3192	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:48:00 - [20] - Quote Assaults need a more useful bonus. It doesn't matter if they get a small HP change, all that does is blur the difference between Assault and Commando further. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 Empress of Alts


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3696	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:48:00 - [21] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Nothing on giving Gallente scout a bonus to damps/amps? I'd also like to see Caldari/Gallente assault suits get a CPU/PG boost. GA scout already has a bonus to damps? It also says increased PG/CPU for Assaults... "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2400	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:49:00 - [22] - Quote These look good. Question(s) on NK. Is this a damage increase across the board with the removal of Min scout bonus? An increase to just Std NKs, or an increase across the board, with no change to Min scout bonus? An additional skill on the tree? Or possibly any of the above but you aren't sure yet? This is how a minja feels
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 3518	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:50:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Nothing on giving Gallente scout a bonus to damps/amps? I'd also like to see Caldari/Gallente assault suits get a CPU/PG boost. GA scout already has a bonus to damps? It also says increased PG/CPU for Assaults... Ok, I'm not sure how I skipped the assault thing. Sorry bout that! And I mean a bonus to the mods so people who play them are more inclined to use damp/amp mods and not plates. Sorry about that again, one of these days I'll learn how to read(probably not) "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1478	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:50:00 - [24] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: snip The Nanite Injector WP scaling is great news. Is there any possibility of squeezing in tier based scaling for repair tools aswell? While to a lesser extent, they have the exact same problem of higher tiers being a clear downgrade in purely economic terms. Also, regarding OMS. Could you elaborate on why you believe further reducing the number of game modes, Pilots and AV infantry can participate in with their preferred playstyle, is necessary? Let me use a loaded question to articulate my concern: Would you say that non-AV capable infantry players require/deserve a vehicle free game mode for the sake of it, or is this decision purely driven by current balance issues and thus a (theoretically) temporary concession? You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 660	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:50:00 - [25] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. Some questions: Does this mean Caldari loses it's precision bonus? How is an Amarr Scout with two high slots supposed to utilize a bonus to scan precision? And on the role assignment of the Amarr Scout as the armor-scout: That's what (in practice) the GalScout does. It's faster, has reps, and has a slot to spare due to the dampening bonus. If the Amarr Scout becomes even better than that you'll have to buff Assaults a whole lot.
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 930	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:51:00 - [26] - Quote Eruditus 920 wrote: Please fix the red line timer bug that results in death at an arbitrary time other than 20 seconds. I only encounter this when hopping in and out the redline for several times, I much rather have them focus on better matchmaking possibilities or game modes that avoid redlining all together.
Eko Sol Strange Playings 538	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:51:00 - [27] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. I am strongly against this. The A-Logi has the least number of module slots, least number of equipment slots, andI always thought this to be it's advantage. It should have a side arm. The uplink bonus doesn't work correctly already. Please reconsider. I get on the forums regularly and have NEVER seen a complaint about the A-Logi other than bonus issues such as: 1) Times not showing correctly until selected 2) Bonus not always applying based on the appropriate math Again, please reconsider. PSN is "Ekopalm" Playing: Murdered Soul Suspect WIP: Child of Light, MGS5 Welcome to play with me anytime, message me.
Will Driver Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 121	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:51:00 - [28] - Quote In favor of most of these changes. However, I feel that ... * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus * will make the Logi suits less distinctive, and therefore not in favor of these modifications. Plus, the cloak fitting thing is a non issue, very rarely run into cloaked Logi's, and if they are cloaked, they are making some serious sacrifices to be so, which feels appropriate. Also do not favor ... * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS * I actually like the way this mode is split now. If I get Ambush OMS, I run my A/V fit. If I get regular Ambush, I run Logi. I just wish they were selectable, as in two separate modes, so I could chose when I want to go up against vehicles and when I don't. If you remove vehicles completely from all Ambush modes I think it will be boring, quite frankly, while vehicle operators simply switching to Dom and Skirm, making those all the more unplayable for infantry. CCP, thanks for the hotfixes, generally like the direction I've seen with Alpha, Beta, and now Charlie. I especially like the efforts to give Assaults a better defined role and slightly adjust Heavies / Heavy weapons - heck even I've been forced to don a Heavy suit just to compete with all the Heavy spam even though that's not my preferred playstyle. GÇ£Creativity is knowing how to hide your sourcesGÇ¥ GÇò Albert Einstein

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3696	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:52:00 - [29] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Why remove the amarr logis sidearm? It adds variety to the game while remaining balanced. It seems like losing an equipment slot for a sidearm slot is a fair trade. This will also probably anger amarr logis who have heavily invested in sidearms. Also, don't remove ambush oms, remove regular ambush. 50 clones go far too fast. Just remove vehicles and squads from ambush oms and call it ambush. Only other thing I disagree on is giving the small rail turret a range buff. They are already in a good place and this could push them into the overpowered category. Oh one more thing. Be careful with installation AI. It seems to be really inconsistent. I have walked up to hostile turrets and hacked without taking fire, while at other times I have been sniped by rail turrets out of moving LAVs. I have also seen rail turrets take out entire squads. You could make that argument for all kinds of reasons, take away the side arm for one assault, or give one commando grenades. I don't like these kinds of inconsistencies as they are really hard to balance, and the reason for speccing into that suit is obfuscated instead of being easily compared and analysed. Small rails would not get a range buff at all, we are looking at small rails versus sniper rifle ranges. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15826	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:52:00 - [30] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Why remove the amarr logis sidearm? It adds variety to the game while remaining balanced. It seems like losing an equipment slot for a sidearm slot is a fair trade. This will also probably anger amarr logis who have heavily invested in sidearms. Also, don't remove ambush oms, remove regular ambush. 50 clones go far too fast. Just remove vehicles and squads from ambush oms and call it ambush. Only other thing I disagree on is giving the small rail turret a range buff. They are already in a good place and this could push them into the overpowered category. Oh one more thing. Be careful with installation AI. It seems to be really inconsistent. I have walked up to hostile turrets and hacked without taking fire, while at other times I have been sniped by rail turrets out of moving LAVs. I have also seen rail turrets take out entire squads. Too much role redundancy overlapping scouts and assaults creates a rather muddled experience and leaves the amarr logi or other two wanting to do their own thing better. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked

Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3548	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:53:00 - [31] - Quote Assaults need new bonuses. And please don't remove my Amarr logi sidearm, I don't think it's OP and i'm quite happy with the 3 equips! >.< I specced that particular logi because it would be able to use the wealth of new sidearms released in 1.8 along with the link reduction for PC. If you're deadset on removing the sidearm can you at least look at fixing the amarr logi's bonus? The link spawn time seems to not work after you die, which is really dumb and mitigates the effectiveness of the bonus. If the bonus isn't fixed and the sidearm is removed I'll be quite sad. Candidate for CPM1 Go VOTE! Dust514.com They call me Princess Zatata <3
Eko Sol Strange Playings 538	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:55:00 - [32] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: Why remove the amarr logis sidearm? It adds variety to the game while remaining balanced. It seems like losing an equipment slot for a sidearm slot is a fair trade. This will also probably anger amarr logis who have heavily invested in sidearms. Also, don't remove ambush oms, remove regular ambush. 50 clones go far too fast. Just remove vehicles and squads from ambush oms and call it ambush. Only other thing I disagree on is giving the small rail turret a range buff. They are already in a good place and this could push them into the overpowered category. Oh one more thing. Be careful with installation AI. It seems to be really inconsistent. I have walked up to hostile turrets and hacked without taking fire, while at other times I have been sniped by rail turrets out of moving LAVs. I have also seen rail turrets take out entire squads. You could make that argument for all kinds of reasons, take away the side arm for one assault, or give one commando grenades. I don't like these kinds of inconsistencies as they are really hard to balance, and the reason for speccing into that suit is obfuscated instead of being easily compared and analysed. Small rails would not get a range buff at all, we are looking at small rails versus sniper rifle ranges. Then I think it is fair to offer a respect for people that went into A-Logi. Just the points spent on the A-Logi. This is a drastic change for the A-logi. It's huge. It changes everything I do and how I do it. The speed nerf is a joke as well. The A-Logi is relatively slow already. Even if you apply it globally, it is still relatively slow. Please reconsider getting rid of the side arm. It offer no imbalance issues. It should be one of the reasons people skill into it. We a-logi skillers have to take in the fact that the most std A-Logi suit has only two equipment slots. might as well use a std scout suit as it would likely be a better choice. This seems to come out of left field as far as I am concerned. PSN is "Ekopalm" Playing: Murdered Soul Suspect WIP: Child of Light, MGS5 Welcome to play with me anytime, message me.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3696	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:55:00 - [33] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: snip The Nanite Injector WP scaling is great news. Is there any possibility of squeezing in tier based scaling for repair tools aswell? While to a lesser extent, they have the exact same problem of higher tiers being a clear downgrade in purely economic terms. Also, regarding OMS. Could you elaborate on why you believe further reducing the number of game modes, Pilots and AV infantry can participate in with their preferred playstyle, is necessary? Let me use a loaded question to articulate my concern: Would you say that non-AV capable infantry players require/deserve a vehicle free game mode for the sake of it, or is this decision purely driven by current balance issues and thus a (theoretically) temporary concession? Every single FPS game that I have played has a vehicle free TDM. I see no reason why DUST 514 should not have it. I am fine with vehicles moving to Dom and Skirm because they are objective based. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 160	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:56:00 - [34] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: How is an Amarr Scout with two high slots supposed to utilize a bonus to scan precision? With 2 precision mods? Depends on the numbers, but currently there isn't much that can avoid a double precision Cal scout.
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 3518	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:59:00 - [35] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: Why remove the amarr logis sidearm? It adds variety to the game while remaining balanced. It seems like losing an equipment slot for a sidearm slot is a fair trade. This will also probably anger amarr logis who have heavily invested in sidearms. Also, don't remove ambush oms, remove regular ambush. 50 clones go far too fast. Just remove vehicles and squads from ambush oms and call it ambush. Only other thing I disagree on is giving the small rail turret a range buff. They are already in a good place and this could push them into the overpowered category. Oh one more thing. Be careful with installation AI. It seems to be really inconsistent. I have walked up to hostile turrets and hacked without taking fire, while at other times I have been sniped by rail turrets out of moving LAVs. I have also seen rail turrets take out entire squads. You could make that argument for all kinds of reasons, take away the side arm for one assault, or give one commando grenades. I don't like these kinds of inconsistencies as they are really hard to balance, and the reason for speccing into that suit is obfuscated instead of being easily compared and analysed. Small rails would not get a range buff at all, we are looking at small rails versus sniper rifle ranges. Then I think it is fair to offer a respect for people that went into A-Logi. Just the points spent on the A-Logi. This is a drastic change for the A-logi. It's huge. It changes everything I do and how I do it. The speed nerf is a joke as well. The A-Logi is relatively slow already. Even if you apply it globally, it is still relatively slow. Please reconsider getting rid of the side arm. It offer no imbalance issues. It should be one of the reasons people skill into it. We a-logi skillers have to take in the fact that the most std A-Logi suit has only two equipment slots. might as well use a std scout suit as it would likely be a better choice. This seems to come out of left field as far as I am concerned. What if Amarr Logis give up the new slot they got but got to keep the sidearm? I like that Amarr got a sidearm over the others, the balance was that they lost a slot for a sidearm(very balanced if you ask me) but since they got a new low...well you see where I'm going here. It's just like how the Amarr assault got most CPU/PG but had least slots. At least that can be balanced by adding more CPU/PG to the other assault suits. With the Logi, you'd have to add a sidearm to all of them to get them balanced with Amarr...basically completely overshadowing the Assault(more so then it already is) "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 2161	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:01:00 - [36] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. Look... Dust 514 has not been my favorite game for a long LONG time, but this is a big deal for me. I've been assault since day 1 and I'm really enjoying the idea of finally getting some balancing. He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15827	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:02:00 - [37] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: How is an Amarr Scout with two high slots supposed to utilize a bonus to scan precision? With 2 precision mods? Depends on the numbers, but currently there isn't much that can avoid a double precision Cal scout. Well... at least you wont have to give up your primary tank to get the better scan bonuses. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Eko Sol Strange Playings 540	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:02:00 - [38] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Eko Sol wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: Why remove the amarr logis sidearm? It adds variety to the game while remaining balanced. It seems like losing an equipment slot for a sidearm slot is a fair trade. This will also probably anger amarr logis who have heavily invested in sidearms. Also, don't remove ambush oms, remove regular ambush. 50 clones go far too fast. Just remove vehicles and squads from ambush oms and call it ambush. Only other thing I disagree on is giving the small rail turret a range buff. They are already in a good place and this could push them into the overpowered category. Oh one more thing. Be careful with installation AI. It seems to be really inconsistent. I have walked up to hostile turrets and hacked without taking fire, while at other times I have been sniped by rail turrets out of moving LAVs. I have also seen rail turrets take out entire squads. You could make that argument for all kinds of reasons, take away the side arm for one assault, or give one commando grenades. I don't like these kinds of inconsistencies as they are really hard to balance, and the reason for speccing into that suit is obfuscated instead of being easily compared and analysed. Small rails would not get a range buff at all, we are looking at small rails versus sniper rifle ranges. Then I think it is fair to offer a respect for people that went into A-Logi. Just the points spent on the A-Logi. This is a drastic change for the A-logi. It's huge. It changes everything I do and how I do it. The speed nerf is a joke as well. The A-Logi is relatively slow already. Even if you apply it globally, it is still relatively slow. Please reconsider getting rid of the side arm. It offer no imbalance issues. It should be one of the reasons people skill into it. We a-logi skillers have to take in the fact that the most std A-Logi suit has only two equipment slots. might as well use a std scout suit as it would likely be a better choice. This seems to come out of left field as far as I am concerned. What if Amarr Logis give up the new slot they got but got to keep the sidearm? I like that Amarr got a sidearm over the others, the balance was that they lost a slot for a sidearm(very balanced if you ask me) but since they got a new low...well you see where I'm going here. It's just like how the Amarr assault got most CPU/PG but had least slots. At least that can be balanced by adding more CPU/PG to the other assault suits. With the Logi, you'd have to add a sidearm to all of them to get them balanced with Amarr...basically completely overshadowing the Assault(more so then it already is) They already have the fewest equipment slots at proto and at std. They already have only 7 module slots. I think that was a more than fair trade for the side arm. I agree that the side arm is something that makes it stand out. Just like the Cal Logi's with charge sniper rifles and 5 damage mods, cpu and pg upgrade, armor plate and armor reps. The side arm is something makes it unique but at the same time doesn't make it an assault. Doesn't make it a scout. Simply because it doesn't have the modules or the foot speed to be any of those. PSN is "Ekopalm" Playing: Murdered Soul Suspect WIP: Child of Light, MGS5 Welcome to play with me anytime, message me.
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2024	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:03:00 - [39] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: snip The Nanite Injector WP scaling is great news. Is there any possibility of squeezing in tier based scaling for repair tools aswell? While to a lesser extent, they have the exact same problem of higher tiers being a clear downgrade in purely economic terms. Also, regarding OMS. Could you elaborate on why you believe further reducing the number of game modes, Pilots and AV infantry can participate in with their preferred playstyle, is necessary? Let me use a loaded question to articulate my concern: Would you say that non-AV capable infantry players require/deserve a vehicle free game mode for the sake of it, or is this decision purely driven by current balance issues and thus a (theoretically) temporary concession? Every single FPS game that I have played has a vehicle free TDM. I see no reason why DUST 514 should not have it. I am fine with vehicles moving to Dom and Skirm because they are objective based. Could you at least consider leaving LAV's available? Some matches that are on huge maps take forever to end because everyone has to run across the map just to get a few kills, then run back to a different corner of the map (this is in regular ambush where you can't call in any vehicles). "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32 -- "Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
Cody Sietz SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 3518	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:05:00 - [40] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: How is an Amarr Scout with two high slots supposed to utilize a bonus to scan precision? With 2 precision mods? Depends on the numbers, but currently there isn't much that can avoid a double precision Cal scout. Well... at least you wont have to give up your primary tank to get the better scan bonuses. At least the Amarr will be able to scan a double damp Cal Scout. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire

Brush Master HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 1269	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:07:00 - [41] - Quote Would like more details on making logis all the same number of equipment slots. How many slots are you going to get? As someone that runs support logi almost all the time, for pub matches, 3 can get you by but for PC battles 4 allows you to be a full support logi with all areas you can support with. +1 on scaled wp for injector. Dust Veteran. June 2012 - ? True Logi. Flying DS from the start. @dustreports

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3703	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:10:00 - [42] - Quote Brush Master wrote: Would like more details on making logis all the same number of equipment slots. How many slots are you going to get? As someone that runs support logi almost all the time, for pub matches, 3 can get you by but for PC battles 4 allows you to be a full support logi with all areas you can support with. +1 on scaled wp for injector. Ok, I can see the confusion brewing, logi slots PER tier will be the same, 3, for ADV, 4 for PRO etc. Amarr sidearm is changed to Equipment slot and another slot added to bring them to the same total number of slots as other races at all tiers. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3549	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:10:00 - [43] - Quote Brush Master wrote: Would like more details on making logis all the same number of equipment slots. How many slots are you going to get? As someone that runs support logi almost all the time, for pub matches, 3 can get you by but for PC battles 4 allows you to be a full support logi with all areas you can support with. +1 on scaled wp for injector. I imagine it'll be 4 across the board. Fix the amarr logi's bonus to apply even after death!!!! please? Candidate for CPM1 Go VOTE! Dust514.com They call me Princess Zatata <3
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 660	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:13:00 - [44] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: How is an Amarr Scout with two high slots supposed to utilize a bonus to scan precision? With 2 precision mods? Depends on the numbers, but currently there isn't much that can avoid a double precision Cal scout. Well... at least you wont have to give up your primary tank to get the better scan bonuses. Is a scout suit that has strong eWar and stacks armor really the solution to the current state of the game? Typing that sentence sure feels like it needs an explanation.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3703	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:13:00 - [45] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Brush Master wrote: Would like more details on making logis all the same number of equipment slots. How many slots are you going to get? As someone that runs support logi almost all the time, for pub matches, 3 can get you by but for PC battles 4 allows you to be a full support logi with all areas you can support with. +1 on scaled wp for injector. I imagine it'll be 4 across the board. Fix the amarr logi's bonus to apply even after death!!!! please? So "good" uplinks can be left on the field, while you change to another logi? I think this is working as intended. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

PANDA UZIMAKI SINISTER DEATH SQUAD 48	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:15:00 - [46] - Quote [quote=CCP Rattati]All, * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS * Reduced ADS ISK price Pilot stacking bug removing vehicles from ambush all together huh? I wouldn't advice it seeing that that's where all the proto stompers get their fastest kills and like I said before the only people to put them in like is vehicle support. Now you can listen to the requests of the many rattati or you can listen to the request of the ones who are actually right on this subject. Reducing ADS prices is just a TERRIBLE IDEA I MEAN THINK ABOUT IT no im just kidding its awesome crazy over priced please do that there weak as heck anyways they need love for once. and by the pilot stack bug do you mean the gunner being able to shoot the full say 70% faster but in return the pilot only being able to shoot say only his 40% if that's what he has his skill lvl on?
Mauren NOON The Exemplars Top Men. 358	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:18:00 - [47] - Quote I don't like this...I was fine with amarr having 3 equipment slots. If you remove the sidearm, every logi will outshine the amarr logi. And you are making the slowest logi slower? What's the point in even going amarr logi? It's as fast as a heavy, but oh wait! Uplinks.....how is a heavy speed running logi with uplinks useful? I think it needs another looking at... Scr and commando enthusiast. A commando is not just a suit, but a way of life... "The only thing to fear is fear itself"
Zindorak CaUsE-4-CoNcErN 62	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:21:00 - [48] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Why remove the amarr logis sidearm? It adds variety to the game while remaining balanced. It seems like losing an equipment slot for a sidearm slot is a fair trade. This will also probably anger amarr logis who have heavily invested in sidearms. Also, don't remove ambush oms, remove regular ambush. 50 clones go far too fast. Just remove vehicles and squads from ambush oms and call it ambush. Only other thing I disagree on is giving the small rail turret a range buff. They are already in a good place and this could push them into the overpowered category. Oh one more thing. Be careful with installation AI. It seems to be really inconsistent. I have walked up to hostile turrets and hacked without taking fire, while at other times I have been sniped by rail turrets out of moving LAVs. I have also seen rail turrets take out entire squads. I agree with this and also there isn't many Ammarian weapons to choose from
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15828	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:21:00 - [49] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: How is an Amarr Scout with two high slots supposed to utilize a bonus to scan precision? With 2 precision mods? Depends on the numbers, but currently there isn't much that can avoid a double precision Cal scout. Well... at least you wont have to give up your primary tank to get the better scan bonuses. Is a scout suit that has strong eWar and stacks armor really the solution to the current state of the game? Typing that sentence sure feels like it needs an explanation. Odd as it sounds if anyone should be able to see everything and tank at the same time it should be the Amarr if that made any sense... CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Midas Fool Prophets of the Velocirapture 502	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:23:00 - [50] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s * Reduced ADS ISK price * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. ^My favorites. I am for removing the Amarr Logi sidearm, but please don't make the suit any slower. ADV/PRO: 'Bishop' AmrLogistics, 'Commissar' CalSentinel, 'Rodelero' AmrScout, 'Legionnaire' CalAssault

RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 931	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:23:00 - [51] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Brush Master wrote: Would like more details on making logis all the same number of equipment slots. How many slots are you going to get? As someone that runs support logi almost all the time, for pub matches, 3 can get you by but for PC battles 4 allows you to be a full support logi with all areas you can support with. +1 on scaled wp for injector. I imagine it'll be 4 across the board. Fix the amarr logi's bonus to apply even after death!!!! please? So "good" uplinks can be left on the field, while you change to another logi? I think this is working as intended. The good news is that the logis will be slower so it would take more time to drop all uplinks/hives in good locations before the bonus on our suit is useless on the ever-evolving battlefield.
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 584	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:24:00 - [52] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Brush Master wrote: Would like more details on making logis all the same number of equipment slots. How many slots are you going to get? As someone that runs support logi almost all the time, for pub matches, 3 can get you by but for PC battles 4 allows you to be a full support logi with all areas you can support with. +1 on scaled wp for injector. I imagine it'll be 4 across the board. Fix the amarr logi's bonus to apply even after death!!!! please? So "good" uplinks can be left on the field, while you change to another logi? I think this is working as intended. Wait? What? So you can't just do a simple check whenever the owner of deployed equipment (and also vehicles for when piloting dropsuits arrive) to check if they are still in the proper suit for which the bonus applies when they either change into a new suit or respawn into a new suit? So right now you are making the check for bonuses applied to equipment/vehicles/weapons when the equipment is created/deployed/used and then undoing it the instant that they die? Why not instead do the initial check when first created and then only check again if the toon either changes suits or respawns into a different suit. If they respawn into the same suit, with same bonuses, then keep them running. This would mainly apply to the Amarr and Caldari as their bonuses apply to deployed equipment. But I do understand not wanting to let the bonuses stay if the player ends up switching out of the logi armor... Just seems odd that you are doing the logic checking at the wrong times is all.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11291	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:26:00 - [53] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. People who skilled into Caldari scout did so for the precision bonus, and not the range, for me personally it was the deciding factor; a lot of people will feel like your proposed changes invalidates their decision. On top of that, the Amarr scout has a lot of low slots to stack a ton of dampeners, giving the Amarr scout both precision AND dampening capacity could make them too strong. I propose allowing Caldari keep precision, and Amarr gain range (5% per level). Logi changes: feels like pointless nerfs are happening without looking at the real issues. There is no reason for the sidearm/equipment changes. Many Amarr logis have invested heavily into sidearms, this change could render a lot of their spent SP wasted. Why does the Amarr logi have less module slots at proto than other logis? Other logis have 8 or 9 (Caldari) module slots at proto, while the Amarr proto logi has only 7 module slots. I'm fine with Amarr logi sacrificing an equipment slot (which it does) to gain that sidearm, OR I'm fine with it sacrificing a module slot to gain that sidearm, but it shouldn't sacrifice both these things. You already determined that the Amarr assault having less modules than the others was incorrect, why is it ok for the Amarr logi to have less slots at proto? At proto, Amarr should either gain a module slot (without the cost of losing the sidearm, explained why earlier). Logi slot progression in general is crazy. Gallente starts with only 2 modules at standard, Caldari starts with 3, and Amarr and Minmatar starts with with 4; there is no clear reasoning or discernible tradeoff to justify the inconsistency. At advanced, both Minmatar and Amarr logis have 6 module slots, while other logis have only 5. At proto the Amarr logi has 7 module slots, most have 8, and for SOME REASON the Caldari has 9; the Caldari should have 8, but gain an equipment slot. Removing the cloak bonus seems pointless to me, its not creating a balance issue, and needs to more variety of the battlefield when scouts aren't the only users of cloaks. Other than that, I guess its good I would suggest reviewing the racial bonuses for the assaults. Both the Amarr and Minmatar assaults have good bonuses; allows them to keep shooting longer before stopping from overheat/magazine-depletion. I would suggest giving the Gallente and Caldari assault magazine size bonuses to their racial weapons. The Caldari assault reload bonus is pretty crappy considering the Caldari commando gets the same reload bonus in addition to a damage bonus. I have a Gallente assault level 5 alt account, and I find the Gallente assault bonus almost unnoticeable on my AR. So yeah, magazine increase bonuses have proven useful already, you should use them for the Caldari and Gallente assaults. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3549	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:26:00 - [54] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Brush Master wrote: Would like more details on making logis all the same number of equipment slots. How many slots are you going to get? As someone that runs support logi almost all the time, for pub matches, 3 can get you by but for PC battles 4 allows you to be a full support logi with all areas you can support with. +1 on scaled wp for injector. I imagine it'll be 4 across the board. Fix the amarr logi's bonus to apply even after death!!!! please? So "good" uplinks can be left on the field, while you change to another logi? I think this is working as intended. Who suggested that? Can we not distinguish the 2? In competitive play you simply don't have the luxury of using the amarr because you WILL die, and then your logi investment was worthless aside from link spam perhaps. AT LEAST make it so that if you die and respawn as an amarr logi the links place on previous lives retain the bonus. Candidate for CPM1 Go VOTE! Dust514.com They call me Princess Zatata <3

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3704	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:27:00 - [55] - Quote The Amarr scout will have a natural low range high precision scan, moving slowly and tanking because of close proximity. The Gallente scout will be the dampener master, being able to be unscannable by sacrificing a lot of slots. The Caldari scout will be the natural long range, low ehp hunter. All of them have the ability to change either add range, dampening or precision to alter their desired utility. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Grimmiers 622	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:28:00 - [56] - Quote For the hmg heat build up I'd be fine with something around 18. With the math it's able to shoot 222 rounds before it overheats which is enough to still be devastating in it's range.
Dragonmeballs Better Hide R Die 38	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:28:00 - [57] - Quote [quote=CCP Rattati]All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * * Installation buff, with a range and AI review, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS] Thank you for the communication Rattati. The buff of the installation is good. Even making them indestructible before hacking is better (there shouldn't be a lot of risk free WPs as it hurts the game). A turret isn't a threat until it is in play but reducing the WP for destruction is counter productive. If installations were to be a leverage-able asset just like supply depots this hot fix could be a game changer. Removing vehicles from OMS (assuming installations will still exist in OMS) will completely change the dynamic of OMS. The counter to strong installations is WP for destruction and/or the LAV/HAV. Ambush OMS could end up being a mode between Ambush and Skirmish. Instead of just running around in packs killing other mercs some thought would have be given to dealing with the installations as well. I think that would make things interesting! Maintaining an installation also needs to be given some thought as well. Even if these things have increased health a proto forge gun or PLC is going to make short work of them. There needs to be an effective way to restore the health of the installation. Thoughts anyone?
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15828	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:29:00 - [58] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Wait? What? So you can't just do a simple check whenever the owner of deployed equipment (and also vehicles for when piloting dropsuits arrive) to check if they are still in the proper suit for which the bonus applies when they either change into a new suit or respawn into a new suit? So right now you are making the check for bonuses applied to equipment/vehicles/weapons when the equipment is created/deployed/used and then undoing it the instant that they die? Why not instead do the initial check when first created and then only check again if the toon either changes suits or respawns into a different suit. If they respawn into the same suit, with same bonuses, then keep them running. This would mainly apply to the Amarr and Caldari as their bonuses apply to deployed equipment. But I do understand not wanting to let the bonuses stay if the player ends up switching out of the logi armor... Just seems odd that you are doing the logic checking at the wrong times is all. As an omni-soldier I have abused a supply depot quite often going from logi; to scout; to marksman to assault; to sentinel to keep the supply depot alive and in my control an entire match taking on odds that normally a specialized squad would need to cover all aspects. You have no idea how easily abusable this starts to become the more people start exploring other roles. The solution to the problem I am afraid seems like something that will take a client patch to implement. (Fit ID matching or some other magic trick) CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Mauren NOON The Exemplars Top Men. 358	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:30:00 - [59] - Quote PANDA UZIMAKI wrote: [quote=CCP Rattati]All, * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS * Reduced ADS ISK price Pilot stacking bug removing vehicles from ambush all together huh? I wouldn't advice it seeing that that's where all the proto stompers get their fastest kills and like I said before the only people to put them in like is vehicle support. Now you can listen to the requests of the many rattati or you can listen to the request of the ones who are actually right on this subject. Reducing ADS prices is just a TERRIBLE IDEA I MEAN THINK ABOUT IT no im just kidding its awesome crazy over priced please do that there weak as heck anyways they need love for once. and by the pilot stack bug do you mean the gunner being able to shoot the full say 70% faster but in return the pilot only being able to shoot say only his 40% if that's what he has his skill lvl on? He would be right....that helps dropships and gunners. It makes python able to do AV. I wouldn't call that a bug. It's an incentive for putting all of that sp into that skill Scr and commando enthusiast. A commando is not just a suit, but a way of life... "The only thing to fear is fear itself"
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 931	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:30:00 - [60] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: for SOME REASON the Caldari has 9; the Caldari should have 8, but gain an equipment slot. That reason is to fit a CPU-mod...if you want to run a decent fitting...especially with 4 equipment slots.

Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 284	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:33:00 - [61] - Quote I think the changes are ok as the less equipment carried the more logi becomes slayer. Cloaks are for scouts. Assaults have sidearms Idea Devs to keep logi from using cpu and pg for not equipping slots have a base cpu and pg automatically deduct from unused equipment slots so no more slayer logi.
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 931	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:33:00 - [62] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Jadd Hatchen wrote: Wait? What? So you can't just do a simple check whenever the owner of deployed equipment (and also vehicles for when piloting dropsuits arrive) to check if they are still in the proper suit for which the bonus applies when they either change into a new suit or respawn into a new suit? So right now you are making the check for bonuses applied to equipment/vehicles/weapons when the equipment is created/deployed/used and then undoing it the instant that they die? Why not instead do the initial check when first created and then only check again if the toon either changes suits or respawns into a different suit. If they respawn into the same suit, with same bonuses, then keep them running. This would mainly apply to the Amarr and Caldari as their bonuses apply to deployed equipment. But I do understand not wanting to let the bonuses stay if the player ends up switching out of the logi armor... Just seems odd that you are doing the logic checking at the wrong times is all. As an omni-soldier I have abused a supply depot quite often going from logi; to scout; to marksman to assault; to sentinel to keep the supply depot alive and in my control an entire match taking on odds that normally a specialized squad would need to cover all aspects. You have no idea how easily abusable this starts to become the more people start exploring other roles. The solution to the problem I am afraid seems like something that will take a client patch to implement. (Fit ID matching or some other magic trick) I understand the nature of the bonus peeves quite a few players off and even in the more competitive scenes they're forced to stay away from battle to provide the best benefits needed; but player meta has made a mess of things as usual and its hard to adapt around into the desired results. or CCP should have listened to the original feedback thread on logis on the 1.8 (or was it 1.7?) update.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3706	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:34:00 - [63] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. People who skilled into Caldari scout did so for the precision bonus, and not the range, for me personally it was the deciding factor; a lot of people will feel like your proposed changes invalidates their decision. On top of that, the Amarr scout has nough low slots to stack a ton of dampeners, giving the Amarr scout both precision AND dampening capacity could make them too strong. I propose allowing Caldari keep precision, and Amarr gain range (5% per level). Logi changes: feels like pointless nerfs are happening without looking at the real issues. There is no reason for the sidearm/equipment changes. Many Amarr logis have invested heavily into sidearms, this change could render a lot of their spent SP wasted. Why does the Amarr logi have less module slots at proto than other logis? Other logis have 8 or 9 (Caldari) module slots at proto, while the Amarr proto logi has only 7 module slots. I'm fine with Amarr logi sacrificing an equipment slot (which it does) to gain that sidearm, OR I'm fine with it sacrificing a module slot to gain that sidearm, but it shouldn't sacrifice both these things. You already determined that the Amarr assault having less modules than the others was incorrect, why is it ok for the Amarr logi to have less slots at proto? At proto, Amarr should either gain a module slot (without the cost of losing the sidearm, explained why earlier). Logi slot progression in general is crazy. Gallente starts with only 2 modules at standard, Caldari starts with 3, and Amarr and Minmatar starts with with 4; there is no clear reasoning or discernible tradeoff to justify the inconsistency. At advanced, both Minmatar and Amarr logis have 6 module slots, while other logis have only 5. At proto the Amarr logi has 7 module slots, most have 8, and for SOME REASON the Caldari has 9; the Caldari should have 8, but gain an equipment slot. Removing the cloak bonus seems pointless to me, its not creating a balance issue, and needs to more variety of the battlefield when scouts aren't the only users of cloaks. Other than that, I guess its good I would suggest reviewing the racial bonuses for the assaults. Both the Amarr and Minmatar assaults have good bonuses; allows them to keep shooting longer before stopping from overheat/magazine-depletion. I would suggest giving the Gallente and Caldari assault magazine size bonuses to their racial weapons. The Caldari assault reload bonus is pretty crappy considering the Caldari commando gets the same reload bonus in addition to a damage bonus. I have a Gallente assault level 5 alt account, and I find the Gallente assault bonus almost unnoticeable on my AR. So yeah, magazine increase bonuses have proven useful already, you should use them for the Caldari and Gallente assaults. Please read #42. Also, we plan to revisit slots on necessity. Assault is the first to receive such a thorough review. I frankly don't care about the cloaked logis, it's just silly that Logi's would get a higher bonus than scouts, it is definitely unintended and is getting fixed. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11291	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:35:00 - [64] - Quote RKKR wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: for SOME REASON the Caldari has 9; the Caldari should have 8, but gain an equipment slot. That reason is to fit a CPU-mod...if you want to run a decent fitting...especially with 4 equipment slots. But it doesn't have 4 equipment slots, it only has 3 at proto. Any design that relies on making you need PG/CPU mods to fit a suit properly is a bad one. Reduce modules to 8, raise equipment to 4, and review/revise the PG/CPU if needed. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3706	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:35:00 - [65] - Quote Luther Mandrix wrote: I think the changes are ok as the less equipment carried the more logi becomes slayer. Cloaks are for scouts. Assaults have sidearms Idea Devs to keep logi from using cpu and pg for not equipping slots have a base cpu and pg automatically deduct from unused equipment slots so no more slayer logi. We will rather reduce logi PG/CPU and raise the equipment fitting bonus to encourage. We discussed making equipment slots mandatory for logis but it's too harsh. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 284	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:37:00 - [66] - Quote Thank you for caring about our game CCP Rattati
Mauren NOON The Exemplars Top Men. 358	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:39:00 - [67] - Quote My thing is I see the amarr logi as the combat logi, with uplinks..but if you take the sidearm away and make it slower...what's the point?the uplink bonus won't be that useful if you can't protect yourself and get to an uplink location fairly quickly? Scr and commando enthusiast. A commando is not just a suit, but a way of life... "The only thing to fear is fear itself"
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11291	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:39:00 - [68] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. People who skilled into Caldari scout did so for the precision bonus, and not the range, for me personally it was the deciding factor; a lot of people will feel like your proposed changes invalidates their decision. On top of that, the Amarr scout has nough low slots to stack a ton of dampeners, giving the Amarr scout both precision AND dampening capacity could make them too strong. I propose allowing Caldari keep precision, and Amarr gain range (5% per level). Logi changes: feels like pointless nerfs are happening without looking at the real issues. There is no reason for the sidearm/equipment changes. Many Amarr logis have invested heavily into sidearms, this change could render a lot of their spent SP wasted. Why does the Amarr logi have less module slots at proto than other logis? Other logis have 8 or 9 (Caldari) module slots at proto, while the Amarr proto logi has only 7 module slots. I'm fine with Amarr logi sacrificing an equipment slot (which it does) to gain that sidearm, OR I'm fine with it sacrificing a module slot to gain that sidearm, but it shouldn't sacrifice both these things. You already determined that the Amarr assault having less modules than the others was incorrect, why is it ok for the Amarr logi to have less slots at proto? At proto, Amarr should either gain a module slot (without the cost of losing the sidearm, explained why earlier). Logi slot progression in general is crazy. Gallente starts with only 2 modules at standard, Caldari starts with 3, and Amarr and Minmatar starts with with 4; there is no clear reasoning or discernible tradeoff to justify the inconsistency. At advanced, both Minmatar and Amarr logis have 6 module slots, while other logis have only 5. At proto the Amarr logi has 7 module slots, most have 8, and for SOME REASON the Caldari has 9; the Caldari should have 8, but gain an equipment slot. Removing the cloak bonus seems pointless to me, its not creating a balance issue, and needs to more variety of the battlefield when scouts aren't the only users of cloaks. Other than that, I guess its good I would suggest reviewing the racial bonuses for the assaults. Both the Amarr and Minmatar assaults have good bonuses; allows them to keep shooting longer before stopping from overheat/magazine-depletion. I would suggest giving the Gallente and Caldari assault magazine size bonuses to their racial weapons. The Caldari assault reload bonus is pretty crappy considering the Caldari commando gets the same reload bonus in addition to a damage bonus. I have a Gallente assault level 5 alt account, and I find the Gallente assault bonus almost unnoticeable on my AR. So yeah, magazine increase bonuses have proven useful already, you should use them for the Caldari and Gallente assaults. Please read #42. Also, we plan to revisit slots on necessity. Assault is the first to receive such a thorough review. I frankly don't care about the cloaked logis, it's just silly that Logi's would get a higher bonus than scouts, it is definitely unintended and is getting fixed. I'm now confused. The logi bonus is 5% per level fitting cost reduction, yet the scout is 15% per level. Are you sure the logi's cloak fitting thing is actually higher? I have both proto scout and a proto logi, and I don't think its the case, I could be wrong, but you should double check. Also, I'm really happy about the ADS price cut (as with many things on the list), no playstyle should be financially unsustainable. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3473	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:41:00 - [69] - Quote Do not remove skill stacking on dropships. Its rewarding teamplay and not the "solo ads" scrubbing. And i do like to fly like a oldschool pilot working with my team.
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 448	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:42:00 - [70] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All, * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. * Does this mean the Cal Logi is going to get 4 equipment slots now? Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.

Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 284	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:42:00 - [71] - Quote Side project CCP Rattati can someone update faction packs to include the new faction items ,I would buy more of them if you did. These are in the playstation Store
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11291	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:43:00 - [72] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Do not remove skill stacking on dropships. Its rewarding teamplay and not the "solo ads" scrubbing. And i do like to fly like a oldschool pilot working with my team. Just being in a dropship with someone else hardly qualifies as teamwork, also the effects of this "teamwork" creates balance issues. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3710	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:43:00 - [73] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. People who skilled into Caldari scout did so for the precision bonus, and not the range, for me personally it was the deciding factor; a lot of people will feel like your proposed changes invalidates their decision. On top of that, the Amarr scout has nough low slots to stack a ton of dampeners, giving the Amarr scout both precision AND dampening capacity could make them too strong. I propose allowing Caldari keep precision, and Amarr gain range (5% per level). Logi changes: feels like pointless nerfs are happening without looking at the real issues. There is no reason for the sidearm/equipment changes. Many Amarr logis have invested heavily into sidearms, this change could render a lot of their spent SP wasted. Why does the Amarr logi have less module slots at proto than other logis? Other logis have 8 or 9 (Caldari) module slots at proto, while the Amarr proto logi has only 7 module slots. I'm fine with Amarr logi sacrificing an equipment slot (which it does) to gain that sidearm, OR I'm fine with it sacrificing a module slot to gain that sidearm, but it shouldn't sacrifice both these things. You already determined that the Amarr assault having less modules than the others was incorrect, why is it ok for the Amarr logi to have less slots at proto? At proto, Amarr should either gain a module slot (without the cost of losing the sidearm, explained why earlier). Logi slot progression in general is crazy. Gallente starts with only 2 modules at standard, Caldari starts with 3, and Amarr and Minmatar starts with with 4; there is no clear reasoning or discernible tradeoff to justify the inconsistency. At advanced, both Minmatar and Amarr logis have 6 module slots, while other logis have only 5. At proto the Amarr logi has 7 module slots, most have 8, and for SOME REASON the Caldari has 9; the Caldari should have 8, but gain an equipment slot. Removing the cloak bonus seems pointless to me, its not creating a balance issue, and needs to more variety of the battlefield when scouts aren't the only users of cloaks. Other than that, I guess its good I would suggest reviewing the racial bonuses for the assaults. Both the Amarr and Minmatar assaults have good bonuses; allows them to keep shooting longer before stopping from overheat/magazine-depletion. I would suggest giving the Gallente and Caldari assault magazine size bonuses to their racial weapons. The Caldari assault reload bonus is pretty crappy considering the Caldari commando gets the same reload bonus in addition to a damage bonus. I have a Gallente assault level 5 alt account, and I find the Gallente assault bonus almost unnoticeable on my AR. So yeah, magazine increase bonuses have proven useful already, you should use them for the Caldari and Gallente assaults. Please read #42. Also, we plan to revisit slots on necessity. Assault is the first to receive such a thorough review. I frankly don't care about the cloaked logis, it's just silly that Logi's would get a higher bonus than scouts, it is definitely unintended and is getting fixed. I'm now confused. The logi bonus is 5% per level fitting cost reduction, yet the scout is 15% per level. Are you sure the logi's cloak fitting thing is actually higher? I have both proto scout and a proto logi, and I don't think its the case, I could be wrong, but you should double check. Also, I'm really happy about the ADS price cut (as with many things on the list), no playstyle should be financially unsustainable. For some reason I had 25% versus 15% for scouts, thanks for the correction. We can drop the removal of the bonus to cloaks no problem. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3473	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:43:00 - [74] - Quote And where is the shield reptool? Or just add a low amount of shield rechargte on existing reptools.
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 448	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:44:00 - [75] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. People who skilled into Caldari scout did so for the precision bonus, and not the range, for me personally it was the deciding factor; a lot of people will feel like your proposed changes invalidates their decision. On top of that, the Amarr scout has nough low slots to stack a ton of dampeners, giving the Amarr scout both precision AND dampening capacity could make them too strong. I propose allowing Caldari keep precision, and Amarr gain range (5% per level). Logi changes: feels like pointless nerfs are happening without looking at the real issues. There is no reason for the sidearm/equipment changes. Many Amarr logis have invested heavily into sidearms, this change could render a lot of their spent SP wasted. Why does the Amarr logi have less module slots at proto than other logis? Other logis have 8 or 9 (Caldari) module slots at proto, while the Amarr proto logi has only 7 module slots. I'm fine with Amarr logi sacrificing an equipment slot (which it does) to gain that sidearm, OR I'm fine with it sacrificing a module slot to gain that sidearm, but it shouldn't sacrifice both these things. You already determined that the Amarr assault having less modules than the others was incorrect, why is it ok for the Amarr logi to have less slots at proto? At proto, Amarr should either gain a module slot (without the cost of losing the sidearm, explained why earlier). Logi slot progression in general is crazy. Gallente starts with only 2 modules at standard, Caldari starts with 3, and Amarr and Minmatar starts with with 4; there is no clear reasoning or discernible tradeoff to justify the inconsistency. At advanced, both Minmatar and Amarr logis have 6 module slots, while other logis have only 5. At proto the Amarr logi has 7 module slots, most have 8, and for SOME REASON the Caldari has 9; the Caldari should have 8, but gain an equipment slot. Removing the cloak bonus seems pointless to me, its not creating a balance issue, and needs to more variety of the battlefield when scouts aren't the only users of cloaks. Other than that, I guess its good I would suggest reviewing the racial bonuses for the assaults. Both the Amarr and Minmatar assaults have good bonuses; allows them to keep shooting longer before stopping from overheat/magazine-depletion. I would suggest giving the Gallente and Caldari assault magazine size bonuses to their racial weapons. The Caldari assault reload bonus is pretty crappy considering the Caldari commando gets the same reload bonus in addition to a damage bonus. I have a Gallente assault level 5 alt account, and I find the Gallente assault bonus almost unnoticeable on my AR. So yeah, magazine increase bonuses have proven useful already, you should use them for the Caldari and Gallente assaults. Please read #42. Also, we plan to revisit slots on necessity. Assault is the first to receive such a thorough review. I frankly don't care about the cloaked logis, it's just silly that Logi's would get a higher bonus than scouts, it is definitely unintended and is getting fixed. I'm now confused. The logi bonus is 5% per level fitting cost reduction, yet the scout is 15% per level. Are you sure the logi's cloak fitting thing is actually higher? I have both proto scout and a proto logi, and I don't think its the case, I could be wrong, but you should double check. Also, I'm really happy about the ADS price cut (as with many things on the list), no playstyle should be financially unsustainable. Caldari Logi only has 2 equipment slots at Standard, 3 at Advanced, unless that was changed in an update that I never saw. That is the ONLY reason I run Adv. suit vs Standard (the extra equip slot) and have been doing so since open beta and release Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 711	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:44:00 - [76] - Quote Removing the A Logis sidearm?? Please no! Who is asking for this? This was the best part of this suit and the only reason I skilled it. What is it taking away from? Not the Amarr Assault. Everyone I've read has agreed forever that that except for the slot issue (which was fixed right?) the Amarr Assault was the only Assault that was working as intended (good bonus anyway). Look, I have all 4 Logis, and play all but the Cal, that sidearm is the only reason to play that suit! I'll run a min for the speed and slot layout, or a Gal for the Tank, slot layout and bonus every time over the Amarr Logi, if not for that sidearm. And why would you slow us down?? We already have Massive stamina disadvantages, our speed is required to keep us in support of our close surroundings. Look, buff assaults please, they need it, but not at the expense of the Logis. Give the assaults weapon bonus that make since, give them some more speed and stamina if you thing the amount they have already isn't enough, but don't further nerf the Logis. Remember we took a Massive hit earlier this year with the loss of out rep bonus and nerf to equipment giving us bonuses that tried to lock us into specific roles. Most of us rightfully complained about that. I thought that was enough. Didn't that take us off the nerf bat radar? I don't see massive amounts of threads about the slayer Logis anymore, and I don't see them in game. Now all I see are these death balls of 3 Logis repping each other and 1 or 2 heavies. I think the sad part here is that there isn't more uproar over this because all the old "slayer Logis" had the biggest mouths left for scout suits leaving the real Logis behind to quietly fend for themselves. YouTube

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3710	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:44:00 - [77] - Quote Thokk Nightshade wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: All, * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. * Does this mean the Cal Logi is going to get 4 equipment slots now? All equivalent tiers of all dropsuits will have the same number of total slots, and same sum of high and low slots. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3710	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:47:00 - [78] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: Removing the A Logis sidearm?? Please no! Who is asking for this? This was the best part of this suit and the only reason I skilled it. What is it taking away from? Not the Amarr Assault. Everyone I've read has agreed forever that that except for the slot issue (which was fixed right?) the Amarr Assault was the only Assault that was working as intended (good bonus anyway). Look, I have all 4 Logis, and play all but the Cal, that sidearm is the only reason to play that suit! I'll run a min for the speed and slot layout, or a Gal for the Tank, slot layout and bonus every time over the Amarr Logi, if not for that sidearm. And why would you slow us down?? We already have Massive stamina disadvantages, our speed is required to keep us in support of our close surroundings. Look, buff assaults please, they need it, but not at the expense of the Logis. Give the assaults weapon bonus that make since, give them some more speed and stamina if you thing the amount they have already isn't enough, but don't further nerf the Logis. Remember we took a Massive hit earlier this year with the loss of out rep bonus and nerf to equipment giving us bonuses that tried to lock us into specific roles. Most of us rightfully complained about that. I thought that was enough. Didn't that take us off the nerf bat radar? I don't see massive amounts of threads about the slayer Logis anymore, and I don't see them in game. Now all I see are these death balls of 3 Logis repping each other and 1 or 2 heavies. I think the sad part here is that there isn't more uproar over this because all the old "slayer Logis" had the biggest mouths left for scout suits leaving the real Logis behind to quietly fend for themselves. I'm sorry but our data shows that logis outnumber assaults by a huge margin. Nothing about this change will make logis worse at being logis. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 829	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:48:00 - [79] - Quote Dear Rattati... We have a chance to get the promised: 1. Delay before remote explosive activation? 2. Delay before shot after decloaking? ??????????????????????????????????????? Mindless parkour just infuriates! Sorry for bad English =) >>> Legion rdy! <<<
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 1052	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:48:00 - [80] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. I have been using my heavy of late again, this time focused on the HMG rather than the forge gun. And I have noticed quite a few heavies running around with light weapons. I think adding a fitting bonus to heavy weapons, while reducing the CPU/PG as a whole (but keep in mind, if I use a light weapon, I should be light on tanking ability, but when I use the HMG or Forge, I should have numerous tanking options). CCP Rattati wrote: * A slight HMG heat buildup increase As far as the HMG heat buildup increase, eh. I haven't overheated yet, so I don't know if a "slight" increase would cut it. I mean, as it stands now, I don't even come CLOSE to overheating as I mow people down. Heavies though are certainly king atm, it's basically all I ever see, and I understand why now after using one. I always get INSANE KDR numbers when I run to kill infantry with it. Numbers like 24/4 with worthless blueberries on my side (worthless as in I RARELY see one as I mow the masses of red dots down) PS And can I get some specifics on the minmatar scout knifing changes? This is something I absolutely LOVE to do, but often times it can be very map specific, not to mention next to impossible at times to make contact. What do you mean by hit detection? I saw that Logibro mentioned something about adhesion, which I think is desperately needed, but not like COD adhesion. I find that often when I go to knife somebody (they usually DON'T notice me initially), if they move in the slightest (left or right relative to where I'm standing) when my knives go off I will miss completely, and it's can be very rough trying to track them to keep my knives on target (which seems to be DIRECTLY in front of me, if you are off by the slightest they miss, wider arc perhaps?). A lot of times, if I miss that first knife, I find myself madly swinging at my target, as they easily dodge my every shot. And damage seems rather good already. I've one shot a few heavies with a full charge. If you improve hit detection (whatever that may be), I would be hesitant on improving damage, as that alone (hit detection) makes a HUGE improvement to something I already feel is quite powerful. Tanks - Balancing Turrets

Zindorak CaUsE-4-CoNcErN 63	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:49:00 - [81] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. * Installation buff, with a range and AI review, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement * Small rail range compared to sniper range * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS * Reduced ADS ISK price Still under tech evaluation * Passive Scan sharing with squads * Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Unfair fall damage calculation Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug Hotfix Delta or later Sidearm rebalance Sniper Rifle review Efficacy bonuses Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity Im excited for this! High five Rattati high fives
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 933	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:50:00 - [82] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: For some reason I had 25% versus 15% for scouts, thanks for the correction. We can drop the removal of the bonus to cloaks no problem. Are you also aware that the logi-suit has less HP AND less speed/stamina than the assault suit? I thought more armor would slow you down? Yet the assault are possibly going to get a speed increasement? So can we drop the slowing down of logis also? Or at the minimum give the logis a waaaaay better stamina pool...god I miss the days of the Type-2 logi suit...
Gabriel Ceja Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 13	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:50:00 - [83] - Quote More loyalty points, heck yea!!! For the Federation and the Republic!!! (and sometimes the state but don't tell anyone ) "Throw on the flux capacitor." activates fuel injector "WOOOOOO!!!"
P14GU3 The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 785	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:52:00 - [84] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: You could make that argument for all kinds of reasons, take away the side arm for one assault, or give one commando grenades. I don't like these kinds of inconsistencies as they are really hard to balance, and the reason for speccing into that suit is obfuscated instead of being easily compared and analysed Read as: we at ccp have no clue how to balance properly, so we are breaking your character to make it easy for us... I only play dust514ums now. It was always more fun than the actual game anyways.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15830	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:53:00 - [85] - Quote RKKR wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: For some reason I had 25% versus 15% for scouts, thanks for the correction. We can drop the removal of the bonus to cloaks no problem. Are you also aware that the logi-suit has less HP AND less speed/stamina than the assault suit? I thought more armor would slow you down? Yet the assault are possibly going to get a speed increasement? So can we drop the slowing down of logis also? Or at the minimum give the logis a waaaaay better stamina pool...god I miss the days of the Type-2 logi suit... I can agree to a stamina buff. They do a bit running around with all the people screaming for someone to save them. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15830	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:54:00 - [86] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: You could make that argument for all kinds of reasons, take away the side arm for one assault, or give one commando grenades. I don't like these kinds of inconsistencies as they are really hard to balance, and the reason for speccing into that suit is obfuscated instead of being easily compared and analysed Read as: we at ccp have no clue how to balance properly, so we are breaking your character to make it easy for us... Can't make an omelet without a nanite cheese injector. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3194	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:55:00 - [87] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. Let's start here. Dear CCP Rattati, Hi, I'm a closed beta vet that has used slayer-logi fits since Chromosome. Versatility is the spice of life. Being able to pick and choose what you run and fit it the way you like is the best and most attractive quality of this game. Currently I can fit any of my Assaults suits with basically all the modules I'd like, with the exception of Complex Shield Energizers/Rechargers. But I really want to stress that even if you changed the slot layout to match Logistics (which I don't think is a good Idea) I still won't be using my Cal/Gal/Min Assault suits. The restriction set on them that their bonuses only apply to racial weapons makes me feel limited in capacity. A small amount of HP isn't going to make the difference if I want to play an armor tanked suit with an armor damaging weapon it will still benefit me to use a Logistic suit because I'll have near identical capabilities only I'll also have a bonus to use my Equipment. I would very much like it if we changed the Assault bonuses from only affecting racial weapons to affecting all weapons. You also bring up the idea of a "slight speed increase." I would just like to remind you that Minmatar Assaults are already faster than Amarr Scouts, any changes without also increase Scout speed by an equal amount will cause several problem I don't think you've taken into consideration. What you've done by bringing in these Hotfix iterations have been great for the game as a whole, but on this point it would be much appreciated Quote: * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. * Installation buff, with a range and AI review, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement * Small rail range compared to sniper range These mostly sound good or at the very least acceptable until hard-numbers come out. Quote: * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS * Reduced ADS ISK price So along with the Amarr Sidearm remove, the Caldari Logistics ck.0 will also be losing 1 Low Slot that it gained instead of a 5th equipment, correct? That seems like a dull choice, but I'm sure Cal and Amarr Logistics will scream enough so I don't have to. But that WP values for injectors is just terrifying. How about 5/10/15 WP instead. That sounds a lot more reasonable for a support tool. Or even just using something like the WP reward system for Transport Assist. Either way Nanite Injectors CANNOT reward more WPs than Kills. Quote: Still under tech evaluation * Passive Scan sharing with squads * Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Unfair fall damage calculation Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug Hotfix Delta or later Sidearm rebalance Sniper Rifle review Efficacy bonuses Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity [/quote] Very sad to see those issues that need client side updates, but at least we understand why they aren't being fixed. Is the 'Black Eagle' Scout G/1-Series and the 'Quafe' Scout gk.0 also on the list for incorrect colors? Because they look so much worse since the move to Uprising 1.0. Unless Nanite Injectors also come with a minimum percentage of Shields, I really hope you do not implement a change rewarding people for players being assholes without first making sure they can't revive people that don't want to be picked up. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 Empress of Alts
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 325	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:55:00 - [88] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. I'm curious about the proposed change above, as I always saw Caldari as the precision specialist. Can you explain the rationale behind it, especially since you mentioned the opposite in the Barbershop thread?: CCP Rattati wrote: What do you feel about Amarr having the range, Gallente having dampeners, CA having precision and MM get better at hacking and running. I am not too comfortable with giving the CA both range and precision supremacy, I believe you have to make a choice. I'm not complaining, just curious. I agree that having both range and precision one one suite is not a good idea. If the change go ahead as proposed, will the Caldari range bonus go back to 5%? A last note, does this mean the Amarr will not have 360 passive scans, or a weak 360 and a strong front scan?
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 933	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:56:00 - [89] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I'm sorry but our data shows that logis outnumber assaults by a huge margin. Nothing about this change will make logis worse at being logis. Does your data also shows that people are using those logis as assault suits? Does your data shows that those logi-suits get more kills than the scout-heavy suit? Does your data of kills with a logo-suit approximate the amount of kills that you want the assault suit to make? Does your data also shows that the scout/heavy suits outnumber the assault suit by a huge margin? Yes it will make it worse...people use their amar logi as support combined with AV + a side-arm to protect themselves...gone are those days. I have th efeelinf that your data doesn't justify these changes.
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3550	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:56:00 - [90] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I'm sorry but our data shows that logis outnumber assaults by a huge margin. Nothing about this change will make logis worse at being logis. Which speaks to the truth of assaults being poor, not necessarily logi's needing a speed nerf or any other nerf. Candidate for CPM1 Go VOTE! Dust514.com They call me Princess Zatata <3


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3717	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:57:00 - [91] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: You could make that argument for all kinds of reasons, take away the side arm for one assault, or give one commando grenades. I don't like these kinds of inconsistencies as they are really hard to balance, and the reason for speccing into that suit is obfuscated instead of being easily compared and analysed Read as: we at ccp have no clue how to balance properly, so we are breaking your character to make it easy for us... I am going to reiterate that in formal dev feedback threads, posts are expected to be constructive and civil. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Dragonmeballs Better Hide R Die 38	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:58:00 - [92] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Removing the A Logis sidearm?? Please no! Who is asking for this? This was the best part of this suit and the only reason I skilled it. What is it taking away from? Not the Amarr Assault. Everyone I've read has agreed forever that that except for the slot issue (which was fixed right?) the Amarr Assault was the only Assault that was working as intended (good bonus anyway). /cut I think the sad part here is that there isn't more uproar over this because all the old "slayer Logis" had the biggest mouths left for scout suits leaving the real Logis behind to quietly fend for themselves. I'm sorry but our data shows that logis outnumber assaults by a huge margin. Nothing about this change will make logis worse at being logis. Logis out number assaults....no wonder! Ratamaq is absolutely correct! I suspect that the suit counts rank like this: Scout>Heavy>Logi>Assault. Logi suits outnumber Assault suits because the Assault suit lost its luster not because the Logi suit is superior.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Cornballs Get Stonewalled 859	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:58:00 - [93] - Quote Doyle Reese wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3% 1-2-3 HP/s repaired? ....or 1-2-3% armor resists!!! it's %, so it's likely to be speed penalties, which I'm not down with, Reactive Plates are still the worst plates there is There the only plates that I fit on my Caldari Sentinels with one low slot . It could be more but something is better than nothing in this case but it isn't hashed out yet so maybe they will make a better decision later . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 829	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:59:00 - [94] - Quote CCP Rattati, please answer. ...Sometimes I think I'm in a glass suit ((( Sorry for bad English =) >>> Legion rdy! <<<
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3473	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:59:00 - [95] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Do not remove skill stacking on dropships. Its rewarding teamplay and not the "solo ads" scrubbing. And i do like to fly like a oldschool pilot working with my team. Just being in a dropship with someone else hardly qualifies as teamwork, also the effects of this "teamwork" creates balance issues. The skill stack bonus only applys to the gunner (side gun) and not the front gun from the pilot. I say it again: you need 2 people working together to get a advantage. If you have no idea about the whole subject then please do not talk about it. Simple sayd its 2 guys who work as a team and chosed to specialise for this purpose.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Cornballs Get Stonewalled 860	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:00:00 - [96] - Quote Dragonmeballs wrote: Logi suits outnumber Assault suits because the Assault suit lost its luster not because the Logi suit is superior. Agreed . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3723	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:01:00 - [97] - Quote John Psi wrote: Dear Rattati... We have a chance to get the promised: 1. Delay before remote explosive activation? 2. Delay before shot after decloaking? ??????????????????????????????????????? Mindless parkour just infuriates! These two issues do not seem to be a burning topic at the moment, but I will keep an eye out for them. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 717	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:02:00 - [98] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Removing the A Logis sidearm?? Please no! Who is asking for this? This was the best part of this suit and the only reason I skilled it. What is it taking away from? Not the Amarr Assault. Everyone I've read has agreed forever that that except for the slot issue (which was fixed right?) the Amarr Assault was the only Assault that was working as intended (good bonus anyway). Look, I have all 4 Logis, and play all but the Cal, that sidearm is the only reason to play that suit! I'll run a min for the speed and slot layout, or a Gal for the Tank, slot layout and bonus every time over the Amarr Logi, if not for that sidearm. And why would you slow us down?? We already have Massive stamina disadvantages, our speed is required to keep us in support of our close surroundings. Look, buff assaults please, they need it, but not at the expense of the Logis. Give the assaults weapon bonus that make since, give them some more speed and stamina if you thing the amount they have already isn't enough, but don't further nerf the Logis. Remember we took a Massive hit earlier this year with the loss of out rep bonus and nerf to equipment giving us bonuses that tried to lock us into specific roles. Most of us rightfully complained about that. I thought that was enough. Didn't that take us off the nerf bat radar? I don't see massive amounts of threads about the slayer Logis anymore, and I don't see them in game. Now all I see are these death balls of 3 Logis repping each other and 1 or 2 heavies. I think the sad part here is that there isn't more uproar over this because all the old "slayer Logis" had the biggest mouths left for scout suits leaving the real Logis behind to quietly fend for themselves. I'm sorry but our data shows that logis outnumber assaults by a huge margin. Nothing about this change will make logis worse at being logis. CCP Rattati, please correct me if I'm wrong, but has not the community expressed time and time again to please not try to make a suit more attractive by forcing them out of another suit? Don't buff the Assaults by further nerfing the Logis, that's not going to create more Assaults, it's going to create more Scouts. What are your numbers showing? That on average more players are playing Logi and scorning more kills than Assaults, or just that in the Medium Frame world, Logis FAR out number Assaults? If the latter is the case could it be that it's far easier to run around with a rep tool attached to a heavy than it is to kill something with an Assault? If you make these changes you may get the desired number of Less Logis on the field, but I doubt they are going to shift to the Assault world. That's not making Assaults happy, that's upsetting one of the largest portions of your player base! YouTube
P14GU3 The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 786	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:04:00 - [99] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Removing the A Logis sidearm?? Please no! Who is asking for this? This was the best part of this suit and the only reason I skilled it. What is it taking away from? Not the Amarr Assault. Everyone I've read has agreed forever that that except for the slot issue (which was fixed right?) the Amarr Assault was the only Assault that was working as intended (good bonus anyway). Look, I have all 4 Logis, and play all but the Cal, that sidearm is the only reason to play that suit! I'll run a min for the speed and slot layout, or a Gal for the Tank, slot layout and bonus every time over the Amarr Logi, if not for that sidearm. And why would you slow us down?? We already have Massive stamina disadvantages, our speed is required to keep us in support of our close surroundings. Look, buff assaults please, they need it, but not at the expense of the Logis. Give the assaults weapon bonus that make since, give them some more speed and stamina if you thing the amount they have already isn't enough, but don't further nerf the Logis. Remember we took a Massive hit earlier this year with the loss of out rep bonus and nerf to equipment giving us bonuses that tried to lock us into specific roles. Most of us rightfully complained about that. I thought that was enough. Didn't that take us off the nerf bat radar? I don't see massive amounts of threads about the slayer Logis anymore, and I don't see them in game. Now all I see are these death balls of 3 Logis repping each other and 1 or 2 heavies. I think the sad part here is that there isn't more uproar over this because all the old "slayer Logis" had the biggest mouths left for scout suits leaving the real Logis behind to quietly fend for themselves. I'm sorry but our data shows that logis outnumber assaults by a huge margin. Nothing about this change will make logis worse at being logis. Your data shows this because the assault bonuses are just flat out horrible. The ONLY assault that gets played (Im sure your data shows this) is the amarr, because it actually has a good bonus. Logis are not the issue with assaults, assaults are.. doesnt take a rocket scientist to figure that out.. I only play dust514ums now. It was always more fun than the actual game anyways.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11292	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:05:00 - [100] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thokk Nightshade wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: All, * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. * Does this mean the Cal Logi is going to get 4 equipment slots now? All equivalent tiers of all dropsuits will have the same number of total slots, and same sum of high and low slots. Do you mean same TOTAL high and low slots? if so good. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Cornballs Get Stonewalled 863	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:05:00 - [101] - Quote We all just need a SP refund after this to place our points in the roles that we play and to maximize our potential . Too many changes from 1.7 until now to keep up and play the style that was originally thought out by most in the community . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Cornballs Get Stonewalled 863	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:09:00 - [102] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: CCP Rattati, please correct me if I'm wrong, but has not the community expressed time and time again to please not try to make a suit more attractive by forcing them out of another suit? Don't buff the Assaults by further nerfing the Logis, that's not going to create more Assaults, it's going to create more Scouts. What are your numbers showing? That on average more players are playing Logi and scorning more kills than Assaults, or just that in the Medium Frame world, Logis FAR out number Assaults? If the latter is the case could it be that it's far easier to run around with a rep tool attached to a heavy than it is to kill something with an Assault? If you make these changes you may get the desired number of Less Logis on the field, but I doubt they are going to shift to the Assault world. That's not making Assaults happy, that's upsetting one of the largest portions of your player base! Spot on indeed . Please listen to Doc because this is true . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
Malleus Malificorum Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:09:00 - [103] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. * Installation buff, with a range and AI review, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS 1) So, my thoughts on these. Scouts/Light frames currently have about 70% of the hp of Mediums/Assaults before modules and Mediums currently have about 25/33% of the hp of heavies before modules. Mediums need a significant buff of about 40-55% more hp to their primary tank before any modules are factored in (yes this includes logis) and shield based assaults/logi's are in need of some massive tweaks to their shield recharge rates and delays (as well as the modules themselves needing fitting cost reductions inherently). It is currently better and easier on powergrid and cpu use to armor / hybrid tank shield based suits than it is to use all of your modules on shield. Others have suggested a minimum threshold of damage before recharge is stopped (further improved by regulators). 2) Buffing installations is risky - with a lot of the nerfs and tweaks to vehicles recently we're very very quickly approaching 1.6 levels of AV lethality. 3) I am not fond overall of the change to scout bonuses but I understand it's been discussed with the barbershop - some of the tweaking needed to be done in their base stats: particularly stamina recharge rates on the minmatar. Some of these tweaks just mean I'm unlikely to skill into anymore scout suits. 4) I like the idea of all logi's having 4 equipment slots at proto tier, but I do really feel that the sidearm on the amarr logistics is something that makes it feel unique and useful, especially as its bonus disappears the moment it dies it really should have more options to defend itself. 5) Injectors should grant a flat 60 WP, then triage points as though you had repaired the target from 30% hp to the hp value they're at, this incentivises fitting better needles on logistics suits and it doesn't take away any warpoints that they wouldn't have gained anyways. It also allows for further adjustment to dial in a 'correct' hp->wp number. 6) Doubling the WP for orbitals simply puts it out of the hands of people who run small squads, and keeps it in the hands of people who had 2 logi's in their squad, this is not a good fix - the warpoint cost needs to scale with the amount of people in the squad. 7) LP needs a small increase to payouts at lower levels, and then as others have suggested gain a 'performance' based increase of around +1% Payout improvement per 10 WP earned. Earning 1000 warpoints would double your payout. This rewards the people who are the best slayers, the best logis etc for being the best and doing all the things - yes there is a potential boosting problem there, but that can be addressed later. Adding to the LP store is incredibly important as well as reducing the damning penalties for losing facwar - I'd suggest that a further +1 standing be added per 100wp earned, making it slightly faster to progress up tiers. 8) Do not prune ambush OMS. The removal of vehicles from ambush should have been a temporary thing at best because vehicles were a symptom not the actual problem itself - Tankbush was never a thing before 1.7, whether due to the lethality of AV or some other reason. AV has gotten more and more lethal with every hotfix and we're very close to things being back to 1.6 levels of lethality in an incredibly undesireable way. Removing OMS would simply removing diversity for no real reason, you're treating the symptom here, not the actual problem. I understand that a majority of players dislikes vehicles, that doesn't mean vehicles should be ostracised and forced into match types where it is INSANELY DIFFICULT TO BE ISK POSITIVE
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 587	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:10:00 - [104] - Quote RKKR wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: For some reason I had 25% versus 15% for scouts, thanks for the correction. We can drop the removal of the bonus to cloaks no problem. Are you also aware that the logi-suit has less HP AND less speed/stamina than the assault suit? I thought more armor would slow you down? Yet the assault are possibly going to get a speed increasement? So can we drop the slowing down of logis also? Or at the minimum give the logis a waaaaay better stamina pool...god I miss the days of the Type-2 logi suit... In addition, why is it that a logi cannot use a rep tool while running!!!! As a repairing logi (ie. Minmatar) I can only maintain repair (and thus receive WPs) for maintaining my beam on the assault or heavy guy while I'm at a WALKING PACE. This means that BOTH the Heavy and Assault guys instantly leave me behind all the damned time and I can't get half the WPs I should be as they kill stuffs when my rep tool is not on them (Guardian WPs). And now you are making the Assaults even faster while making the Logis even slower! Please make it so that the rep tool can be used while running!
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15832	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:12:00 - [105] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Thokk Nightshade wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: All, * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. * Does this mean the Cal Logi is going to get 4 equipment slots now? All equivalent tiers of all dropsuits will have the same number of total slots, and same sum of high and low slots. Do you mean same TOTAL high and low slots? if so good. Across an entire class and meta level yes; so if one the meta and class has 6 slots high and low total all suits in the same class and meta should have it at 6 regardless of race. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Malleus Malificorum Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:12:00 - [106] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: RKKR wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: For some reason I had 25% versus 15% for scouts, thanks for the correction. We can drop the removal of the bonus to cloaks no problem. Are you also aware that the logi-suit has less HP AND less speed/stamina than the assault suit? I thought more armor would slow you down? Yet the assault are possibly going to get a speed increasement? So can we drop the slowing down of logis also? Or at the minimum give the logis a waaaaay better stamina pool...god I miss the days of the Type-2 logi suit... I can agree to a stamina buff. They do a bit running around with all the people screaming for someone to save them. They need a HP buff to primary tank. It's currently better for a shield based logi to fit armor plates than it is for them to try to make shield tanking work (which is far more costly in terms of CPU/PG than armor, and provides less survivability).
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3552	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:14:00 - [107] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: I'm sorry but our data shows that logis outnumber assaults by a huge margin. Nothing about this change will make logis worse at being logis. CCP Rattati, please correct me if I'm wrong, but has not the community expressed time and time again to please not try to make a suit more attractive by forcing them out of another suit? Don't buff the Assaults by further nerfing the Logis, that's not going to create more Assaults, it's going to create more Scouts. What are your numbers showing? That on average more players are playing Logi and scorning more kills than Assaults, or just that in the Medium Frame world, Logis FAR out number Assaults? If the latter is the case could it be that it's far easier to run around with a rep tool attached to a heavy than it is to kill something with an Assault? If you make these changes you may get the desired number of Less Logis on the field, but I doubt they are going to shift to the Assault world. That's not making Assaults happy, that's upsetting one of the largest portions of your player base! Candidate for CPM1 Go VOTE! Dust514.com They call me Princess Zatata <3
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15832	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:15:00 - [108] - Quote Malleus Malificorum wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: RKKR wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: For some reason I had 25% versus 15% for scouts, thanks for the correction. We can drop the removal of the bonus to cloaks no problem. Are you also aware that the logi-suit has less HP AND less speed/stamina than the assault suit? I thought more armor would slow you down? Yet the assault are possibly going to get a speed increasement? So can we drop the slowing down of logis also? Or at the minimum give the logis a waaaaay better stamina pool...god I miss the days of the Type-2 logi suit... I can agree to a stamina buff. They do a bit running around with all the people screaming for someone to save them. They need a HP buff to primary tank. It's currently better for a shield based logi to fit armor plates than it is for them to try to make shield tanking work (which is far more costly in terms of CPU/PG than armor, and provides less survivability). I would cautiously agree if combined with the speed reduction; you have to remember that Logis have expansive fitting poweress and had before overcome other classes strengths before. While shields are intensive the advantages they have are not that suitable for most proper logi lifestyles. Though of course there been other classes in the past accused of such cough Fast attack assaults > scouts 1.6, how much ehp should be added needs careful scrutiny. Also I am going to say the amarr logi speed should not change. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11294	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:16:00 - [109] - Quote Also, might be beating a dead horse, but I really think the Amarr logi should keep the sidearm and not gain the equipment, it would be a fair tradeoff for having less equipment than other logis, and thus balanced. I can adapt to the loss of the sidearm if I need to though, I have a proto Amarr logi, and I don't think the changes would be too disruptive. Also, you reeeeaaaally should put the high/low slot thing in the original post, would have saved me a lot of typing about the slot inequalities. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1590	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:17:00 - [110] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Malleus Malificorum wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: RKKR wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: For some reason I had 25% versus 15% for scouts, thanks for the correction. We can drop the removal of the bonus to cloaks no problem. Are you also aware that the logi-suit has less HP AND less speed/stamina than the assault suit? I thought more armor would slow you down? Yet the assault are possibly going to get a speed increasement? So can we drop the slowing down of logis also? Or at the minimum give the logis a waaaaay better stamina pool...god I miss the days of the Type-2 logi suit... I can agree to a stamina buff. They do a bit running around with all the people screaming for someone to save them. They need a HP buff to primary tank. It's currently better for a shield based logi to fit armor plates than it is for them to try to make shield tanking work (which is far more costly in terms of CPU/PG than armor, and provides less survivability). I would cautiously agree if combined with the speed reduction; you have to remember that Logis have expansive fitting poweress and had before overcome other classes strengths before. Though of course there been other classes in the past accused of such cough Fast attack assaults > scouts 1.6, how much ehp should be added needs careful scrutiny. Also I am going to say the amarr logi speed should not change. side arm shouldn't change either Amarr: Sentinel V Scout V Assault V Commando IV Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r

Mauren NOON The Exemplars Top Men. 360	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:17:00 - [111] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Removing the A Logis sidearm?? Please no! Who is asking for this? This was the best part of this suit and the only reason I skilled it. What is it taking away from? Not the Amarr Assault. Everyone I've read has agreed forever that that except for the slot issue (which was fixed right?) the Amarr Assault was the only Assault that was working as intended (good bonus anyway). Look, I have all 4 Logis, and play all but the Cal, that sidearm is the only reason to play that suit! I'll run a min for the speed and slot layout, or a Gal for the Tank, slot layout and bonus every time over the Amarr Logi, if not for that sidearm. And why would you slow us down?? We already have Massive stamina disadvantages, our speed is required to keep us in support of our close surroundings. Look, buff assaults please, they need it, but not at the expense of the Logis. Give the assaults weapon bonus that make since, give them some more speed and stamina if you thing the amount they have already isn't enough, but don't further nerf the Logis. Remember we took a Massive hit earlier this year with the loss of out rep bonus and nerf to equipment giving us bonuses that tried to lock us into specific roles. Most of us rightfully complained about that. I thought that was enough. Didn't that take us off the nerf bat radar? I don't see massive amounts of threads about the slayer Logis anymore, and I don't see them in game. Now all I see are these death balls of 3 Logis repping each other and 1 or 2 heavies. I think the sad part here is that there isn't more uproar over this because all the old "slayer Logis" had the biggest mouths left for scout suits leaving the real Logis behind to quietly fend for themselves. I'm sorry but our data shows that logis outnumber assaults by a huge margin. Nothing about this change will make logis worse at being logis. CCP Rattati, please correct me if I'm wrong, but has not the community expressed time and time again to please not try to make a suit more attractive by forcing them out of another suit? Don't buff the Assaults by further nerfing the Logis, that's not going to create more Assaults, it's going to create more Scouts. What are your numbers showing? That on average more players are playing Logi and scorning more kills than Assaults, or just that in the Medium Frame world, Logis FAR out number Assaults? If the latter is the case could it be that it's far easier to run around with a rep tool attached to a heavy than it is to kill something with an Assault? If you make these changes you may get the desired number of Less Logis on the field, but I doubt they are going to shift to the Assault world. That's not making Assaults happy, that's upsetting one of the largest portions of your player base! This is exactly what I'm saying...no one will use the amarr logi outside of PC and the only reason they will be used is for uplinks...that logi WILL be the worst logi in the game and everyone in the game who skilled into amarr logi for the sidearm will hate the fact that you made their suit TERRIBLE! end of rant..... Scr and commando enthusiast. A commando is not just a suit, but a way of life... "The only thing to fear is fear itself"
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 6044	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:18:00 - [112] - Quote Would like to hear more about this Minmatar scout rebalance. Is this going to be a third bonus on top of the knives and hacking bonus or is the base hackspeed going to be adjusted to what it's current bonus allows or are knives going to be buffed to Minmatar scout levels? Code breakers in high slots? Not sure how I feel about this. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Malleus Malificorum Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 20	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:19:00 - [113] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Malleus Malificorum wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: RKKR wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: For some reason I had 25% versus 15% for scouts, thanks for the correction. We can drop the removal of the bonus to cloaks no problem. Are you also aware that the logi-suit has less HP AND less speed/stamina than the assault suit? I thought more armor would slow you down? Yet the assault are possibly going to get a speed increasement? So can we drop the slowing down of logis also? Or at the minimum give the logis a waaaaay better stamina pool...god I miss the days of the Type-2 logi suit... I can agree to a stamina buff. They do a bit running around with all the people screaming for someone to save them. They need a HP buff to primary tank. It's currently better for a shield based logi to fit armor plates than it is for them to try to make shield tanking work (which is far more costly in terms of CPU/PG than armor, and provides less survivability). I would cautiously agree if combined with the speed reduction; you have to remember that Logis have expansive fitting poweress and had before overcome other classes strengths before. While shields are intensive the advantages they have are not that suitable for most proper logi lifestyles. Though of course there been other classes in the past accused of such cough Fast attack assaults > scouts 1.6, how much ehp should be added needs careful scrutiny. Also I am going to say the amarr logi speed should not change. That sounds fair and fine, so long as the amarr logi doesn't lose its sidearm. It's entire bonus is predicated on staying alive, sometimes it needs to stray far from its squad to get down those all important uplinks. It immediately becomes a much worse suit if it doesn't have the option of a sidearm to keep itself alive.
P14GU3 The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 787	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:19:00 - [114] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Malleus Malificorum wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: RKKR wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: For some reason I had 25% versus 15% for scouts, thanks for the correction. We can drop the removal of the bonus to cloaks no problem. Are you also aware that the logi-suit has less HP AND less speed/stamina than the assault suit? I thought more armor would slow you down? Yet the assault are possibly going to get a speed increasement? So can we drop the slowing down of logis also? Or at the minimum give the logis a waaaaay better stamina pool...god I miss the days of the Type-2 logi suit... I can agree to a stamina buff. They do a bit running around with all the people screaming for someone to save them. They need a HP buff to primary tank. It's currently better for a shield based logi to fit armor plates than it is for them to try to make shield tanking work (which is far more costly in terms of CPU/PG than armor, and provides less survivability). I would cautiously agree if combined with the speed reduction; you have to remember that Logis have expansive fitting poweress and had before overcome other classes strengths before. Though of course there been other classes in the past accused of such cough Fast attack assaults > scouts 1.6, how much ehp should be added needs careful scrutiny. Also I am going to say the amarr logi speed should not change. Did I just like an IWS post? Why yes, yes I did. Keep using logic IWS, it suits you.. I only play dust514ums now. It was always more fun than the actual game anyways.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15832	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:21:00 - [115] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: side arm shouldn't change either well we could go the stupid way and make logis sidearms only if you like them that much... :P Overall we need to start stepping back and start looking at the larger picture of things of teaching players proper roles for every class and the range of roles a class can fulfill; having an assault like attribute on a logistics suit is as I said before muddling. This is also what we call an extreme outlier; a case where the faction option in question is so far out of its league it might as well be another class. This is where it starts to become more difficult to balance because you now need to justify the weight of having said option. A side arm in the future can be exceptionally heavy stat and even worse so an endeared stat when it does come time to finally remove outliers like this. The removal should bring the alogi back home into the house of the logi instead of him living in the pool house. Also I don't know why you guys are a bit overly too focused on this; you have an opportunity to make the amarr logi something better in other areas where it was weak before with CCP Ratatti being part of the conversation. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11296	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:22:00 - [116] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: side arm shouldn't change either well we could go the stupid way and make logis sidearms only if you like them that much... :P Oh god no, I'm having flashbacks to those stupid threads Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 719	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:23:00 - [117] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Would like to hear more about this Minmatar scout rebalance. Is this going to be a third bonus on top of the knives and hacking bonus or is the base hackspeed going to be adjusted to what it's current bonus allows or are knives going to be buffed to Minmatar scout levels? Code breakers in high slots? Not sure how I feel about this. I'm with you on the high slot thing. I almost feel like some modules should be omni slot. It feels like there was intent in the beginning for a logic of "this module should be in this slot because it makes sine for this race which is where they put their utility modules" but I think the post its form that whiteboard session were lost a long time ago. YouTube
P14GU3 The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 790	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:24:00 - [118] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: side arm shouldn't change either well we could go the stupid way and make logis sidearms only if you like them that much... :P Aww, IWS, why did you have to ruin in so quickly... I only play dust514ums now. It was always more fun than the actual game anyways.
Echo 1991 WarRavens Final Resolution. 348	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:24:00 - [119] - Quote why nerf logis? they already are slower than assaults, so what is the point of lowering their speed further? The fact that assaults are not used much is because they suck.
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 588	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:25:00 - [120] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: John Psi wrote: Dear Rattati... We have a chance to get the promised: 1. Delay before remote explosive activation? 2. Delay before shot after decloaking? ??????????????????????????????????????? Mindless parkour just infuriates! These two issues do not seem to be a burning topic at the moment, but I will keep an eye out for them. ??? What? Seriously? I was only posting about them everyday for a week a couple weeks back! How quickly people forget things. These are still problems in the game. In addition, the scout dropsuits being better at assault than assaults are is sitll a problem and won't be fixed by the proposed Charlie fixes. Instead Scouts need to either loose their sidearm slot (still have the light weapons slot that can be used for either light weapons or sidearms) or reduce the number of equipment slots to ONLY one just like everyone else that is NOT a logi! In either case the appropriate amount of PG/CPU reduction for the loss of either slot needs to be done concurrently to ensure that brick tanking scouts doesn't become the norm after that. Why remove a slot from scouts? Because the original idea before cloaks was that Scouts should either gain an equipment slot and loose a sidearm slot to be able to do this OR they maintain the two weapon layout (one light with one sidearm) but do NOT gain an extra equipment slot. Right now, a scout can cloak and still use all the same weapons an assault can which makes the scout more deadly than an assault for gunplay. This blurs the lines between the Assault and the Scout roles. Additionally, because they have TWO equipment slots, this make them into a "mini-logi" and this blurs the roles between Logi and Scout. So by either removing the extra equipment slot or by removing the extra weapon slot (sidearm one) and the CPU/PG that goes with that slot removal, then you make the Scout have to choose it's role carefully. I personally would like to see the removal of the sidearm slot from the Scout suit much like the Logi has it removed. This makes it clear what the role of the Scout is to be in my mind.

Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6195	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:25:00 - [121] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: snip The Nanite Injector WP scaling is great news. Is there any possibility of squeezing in tier based scaling for repair tools aswell? While to a lesser extent, they have the exact same problem of higher tiers being a clear downgrade in purely economic terms. Also, regarding OMS. Could you elaborate on why you believe further reducing the number of game modes, Pilots and AV infantry can participate in with their preferred playstyle, is necessary? Let me use a loaded question to articulate my concern: Would you say that non-AV capable infantry players require/deserve a vehicle free game mode for the sake of it, or is this decision purely driven by current balance issues and thus a (theoretically) temporary concession? Every single FPS game that I have played has a vehicle free TDM. I see no reason why DUST 514 should not have it. I am fine with vehicles moving to Dom and Skirm because they are objective based. Sure, but most FPS games don't have a long-term skill investment into those vehicles. Trust me when I say that I don't like where vehicles are at without them having a clear cut significant role to play on the battlefield beyond just slaying (which most infantry already do), but I was against taking them out of Ambush and now that we're taking them out of Ambush OMS... I'm starting to wonder where this is going to end. Don't remove them from the game-mode JUST BECAUSE every other game has a vehicle-free game mode, in fact, I'd argue that that's the -LAST- reason you should have to remove them from a game mode. It's important to understand that, even if it's over-powered as hell, it's still in the game and people are still choosing this as their play-style. By removing that play-style from certain game modes, you're effectively punishing the player for making that choice and limiting their options. My primary question is -WHY- are we removing them from the game modes? Because they're powerful? Of course they are, that's how they were designed. They were designed without any role to play -OTHER- than slaying and moving people around. Let me don the tin foil for a second and be clear of what I'm trying to illustrate, in order of the timeline of events: Black Ops HAVs were removed because they were in a weird place. Marauder HAVs were removed because they were too powerful. Scout LAVs, Logistics LAVs, Logistics Dropships, and Enforcer HAVs were removed because they were in a weird place. Removed all of the variants of turrets (stabilized, etc) and completely overhauled the modules. Removed vehicles from Ambush. Now we're removing vehicles from Ambush OMS. I get that they're unbalanced, I get that they're a pressure point, but if you ask me, I think these changes are being made because vehicles were designed poorly from the get go. Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm fully willing to accept that possibility, but it's starting to look like that poor design isn't being evaluated correctly and the slippery slope of trying to deal with them is taking effect. What functional role can vehicles perform that infantry can't? Why should they perform that role? What are the ways that they can be designed to perform that role? What are the ways we can consider that doesn't make that role over-powered? That's all I got to say on that. Will post my other thoughts on the hotfix in a separate post. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15832	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:27:00 - [122] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: side arm shouldn't change either well we could go the stupid way and make logis sidearms only if you like them that much... :P Aww, IWS, why did you have to ruin in so quickly... I was jesting; also edited the post with more. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3730	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:31:00 - [123] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: snip The Nanite Injector WP scaling is great news. Is there any possibility of squeezing in tier based scaling for repair tools aswell? While to a lesser extent, they have the exact same problem of higher tiers being a clear downgrade in purely economic terms. Also, regarding OMS. Could you elaborate on why you believe further reducing the number of game modes, Pilots and AV infantry can participate in with their preferred playstyle, is necessary? Let me use a loaded question to articulate my concern: Would you say that non-AV capable infantry players require/deserve a vehicle free game mode for the sake of it, or is this decision purely driven by current balance issues and thus a (theoretically) temporary concession? Every single FPS game that I have played has a vehicle free TDM. I see no reason why DUST 514 should not have it. I am fine with vehicles moving to Dom and Skirm because they are objective based. Sure, but most FPS games don't have a long-term skill investment into those vehicles. Trust me when I say that I don't like where vehicles are at without them having a clear cut significant role to play on the battlefield beyond just slaying (which most infantry already do), but I was against taking them out of Ambush and now that we're taking them out of Ambush OMS... I'm starting to wonder where this is going to end. Don't remove them from the game-mode JUST BECAUSE every other game has a vehicle-free game mode, in fact, I'd argue that that's the -LAST- reason you should have to remove them from a game mode. It's important to understand that, even if it's over-powered as hell, it's still in the game and people are still choosing this as their play-style. By removing that play-style from certain game modes, you're effectively punishing the player for making that choice and limiting their options. My primary question is -WHY- are we removing them from the game modes? Because they're powerful? Of course they are, that's how they were designed. They were designed without any role to play -OTHER- than slaying and moving people around. Let me don the tin foil for a second and be clear of what I'm trying to illustrate, in order of the timeline of events: Black Ops HAVs were removed because they were in a weird place. Marauder HAVs were removed because they were too powerful. Scout LAVs, Logistics LAVs, Logistics Dropships, and Enforcer HAVs were removed because they were in a weird place. Removed all of the variants of turrets (stabilized, etc) and completely overhauled the modules. Removed vehicles from Ambush. Now we're removing vehicles from Ambush OMS. I get that they're unbalanced, I get that they're a pressure point, but if you ask me, I think these changes are being made because vehicles were designed poorly from the get go. Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm fully willing to accept that possibility, but it's starting to look like that poor design isn't being evaluated correctly and the slippery slope of trying to deal with them is taking effect. What functional role can vehicles perform that infantry can't? Why should they perform that role? What are the ways that they can be designed to perform that role? What are the ways we can consider that doesn't make that role over-powered? That's all I got to say on that. Will post my other thoughts on the hotfix in a separate post. In my opinion vehicles should never have been in Ambush. Simple. It's not because they are unbalanced or other reasons. I would be happy to have a vehicle only mode but that's never going to happen, due to how vehicles are brought into the game, and optimization problems. I just don't think vehicles are entitled to be in every mode. We would only be punishing vehicles if they were banned from all game modes. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 589	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:36:00 - [124] - Quote Malleus Malificorum wrote: That sounds fair and fine, so long as the amarr logi doesn't lose its sidearm. It's entire bonus is predicated on staying alive, sometimes it needs to stray far from its squad to get down those all important uplinks. It immediately becomes a much worse suit if it doesn't have the option of a sidearm to keep itself alive. I never understood why it was the Amarr Logi Dropsuit that got the extra weapon (sidearm). The whole mentality of spaceship manufacturers in the EVE universe for the Minmatar race is more guns more guns MOAR GUNS!!!! And yet they are the side with less guns than the Amarr?!? This never made sense to me from a storyline standpoint.
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 938	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:38:00 - [125] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Overall we need to start stepping back and start looking at the larger picture of things of teaching players proper roles for every class and the range of roles a class can fulfill; having an assault like attribute on a logistics suit is as I said before muddling. and what does this larger picture say about scouts then? The problem with CCP is that they have no bigger picture, long term plans as they like to claim. I think they are better of starting from scratch with all these roles + races + modules + high/low slots stuff. As I said a couple of patches before...building further on crap-mechanics is still going to give you crap.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11296	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:40:00 - [126] - Quote I would suggest getting rid of regular Ambush and keeping OMS with no vehicles, regular Ambush is way too short; often just 5 minutes. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
P14GU3 The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 790	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:41:00 - [127] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: side arm shouldn't change either well we could go the stupid way and make logis sidearms only if you like them that much... :P Aww, IWS, why did you have to ruin in so quickly... I was jesting; also edited the post with more. I know, I had to give you crap or it wouldnt feel like a conversation with you involved.. As far as the rest of your (edited) post, I really dont think a sidearm justifies it feeling like a seperate class. The only thing it really does for it, is allow it a little more survivability and allows it to fit AV. I really dont see why no logis should be able to fit AV. It is the only reason I specced out of gallente and into amarr, and now it seems like I will have to spec out of amarr (if given the option) and back into gallente, while also speccing a heavy forger for an AV option now. Why should the logi class be the only one not allowed to carry AV? Edit: fixed grammer I only play dust514ums now. It was always more fun than the actual game anyways.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6196	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:41:00 - [128] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie -SNIP SNIP SNIP- Any consideration to changing some of the more redundant bonuses..? I still can't make much use out of a dispersion reduction on blaster weaponry when it only applies to Shotguns (which are better on scouts) and Assault Rifles. Commando still remains the more preferred alternative. Love the WP changes on the injectors. Any consideration on improving Repair Tool use toward Installations/Vehicles next? Need numbers on LP Payout information before I can comment further. Love that you guys are starting to look at unfair fall damage, been one of my pressure points since closed beta, what without the ability to hit the inertia dampeners on falls that would harm you... Other than that, I like everything else that I saw or it just wasn't enough of a change to comment on. CCP Rattati wrote: I'm sorry but our data shows that logis outnumber assaults by a huge margin. Nothing about this change will make logis worse at being logis. Other than slowing them down. My Minmatar Logi already has problems keeping up with other suits to repair them and I have to rely on a Flux Repair Tool due to the additional range to compensate. I can understand the plausibility of parring off the slots, I can understand the reasoning of consistency for removing the Amarr Logi's sidearm (although I'm on the fence about it), but I can't understand the reasoning for slowing them down even further. IMO, implement the Assault changes in Hotfix Charlie... Implement the Logistics changes in Hotfix Delta as necessary. Buffing one and nerfing the other is, and always has been, a poor way to achieve balance in an attempt to save time. We've already established that we're going to do as many hotfixes as it takes to restore morale, so what harm is there in holding off for a bit to see the effects from one set of changes? Dragonmeballs wrote: Logis out number assaults....no wonder! Ratamaq is absolutely correct! I suspect that the suit counts rank like this: Scout>Heavy>Logi>Assault. Logi suits outnumber Assault suits because the Assault suit lost its luster not because the Logi suit is superior. Market data on Dust.Thang.Dk has shown that the Logistics suit has -always- been preferable to the Assault suit. It's not something new and it's generally been the case that the Logistics -was- more versatile than the Assault suit because of fitting capability, despite the Assault being designed to be the 'versatile' dropsuit in 1.7/1.8 Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15832	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:41:00 - [129] - Quote RKKR wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Overall we need to start stepping back and start looking at the larger picture of things of teaching players proper roles for every class and the range of roles a class can fulfill; having an assault like attribute on a logistics suit is as I said before muddling. and what does this larger picture say about scouts then? The problem with CCP is that they have no bigger picture, long term plans as they like to claim. I think they are better of starting from scratch with all these roles + races + modules + high/low slots stuff. As I said a couple of patches before...building further on crap-mechanics is still going to give you crap. Scouts were in a bad place for a very long time; they can do a short while longer without a refresh though. As for starting from scrap comes the calls for respecs again and that will be a total mess once more and it would likely involve a lot of code to pull off. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15832	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:43:00 - [130] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: side arm shouldn't change either well we could go the stupid way and make logis sidearms only if you like them that much... :P Aww, IWS, why did you have to ruin in so quickly... I was jesting; also edited the post with more. I know, I had to give you crap or it wouldnt feel like a conversation with you involved.. As far as the rest of your (edited) post, I really dont think a sidearm justifies it feeling like a seperate class. The only thing it really does for it, is allow it a little more survivability and allows it to fit AV. I really dont see why no logis should be able to fit AV. It is the only reason I specced out of gallente and into amarr, and now it seems like I will have to spec out of amarr (if given the option) and back into gallente, while also speccing a heavy forger for an AV option now. Why should the logi class be the only one not allowed to carry AV? Edit: fixed grammer Call me stupid but all of my logis carry the race's support weapon now so LR, PLC, MD, and SL. The gallente one is surprisingly very deadly with the plc still. Min logi still working with it the breach is okay for lite av but the idea behind him was EOD. Amarr currently use for long range EOD and fire line support. Caldari is okay ish but out of the 4 he's the one twiddling his thumbs the most. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Cornballs Get Stonewalled 864	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:44:00 - [131] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: I would very much like it if we changed the Assault bonuses from only affecting racial weapons to affecting all weapons. Unless Nanite Injectors also come with a minimum percentage of Shields, I really hope you do not implement a change rewarding people for players being assholes without first making sure they can't revive people that don't want to be picked up. The first statement is the real reason that I didn't speck into Caldari assault so that is so true and in more cases than not . The second statement is also true because it is a problem . I can't for the life of me understand why you are increasing the range on small rails ( to the range of sniper rifles , I can snipe from over 500 m .. that would just be too much range ) when hit detection from those are the problem and small blaster are horrible , so they need more attention than any of the small turrets . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 590	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:44:00 - [132] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: snip The Nanite Injector WP scaling is great news. Is there any possibility of squeezing in tier based scaling for repair tools aswell? While to a lesser extent, they have the exact same problem of higher tiers being a clear downgrade in purely economic terms. Also, regarding OMS. Could you elaborate on why you believe further reducing the number of game modes, Pilots and AV infantry can participate in with their preferred playstyle, is necessary? Let me use a loaded question to articulate my concern: Would you say that non-AV capable infantry players require/deserve a vehicle free game mode for the sake of it, or is this decision purely driven by current balance issues and thus a (theoretically) temporary concession? Every single FPS game that I have played has a vehicle free TDM. I see no reason why DUST 514 should not have it. I am fine with vehicles moving to Dom and Skirm because they are objective based. Sure, but most FPS games don't have a long-term skill investment into those vehicles. Trust me when I say that I don't like where vehicles are at without them having a clear cut significant role to play on the battlefield beyond just slaying (which most infantry already do), but I was against taking them out of Ambush and now that we're taking them out of Ambush OMS... I'm starting to wonder where this is going to end. Don't remove them from the game-mode JUST BECAUSE every other game has a vehicle-free game mode, in fact, I'd argue that that's the -LAST- reason you should have to remove them from a game mode. It's important to understand that, even if it's over-powered as hell, it's still in the game and people are still choosing this as their play-style. By removing that play-style from certain game modes, you're effectively punishing the player for making that choice and limiting their options. My primary question is -WHY- are we removing them from the game modes? Because they're powerful? Of course they are, that's how they were designed. They were designed without any role to play -OTHER- than slaying and moving people around. Let me don the tin foil for a second and be clear of what I'm trying to illustrate, in order of the timeline of events: Black Ops HAVs were removed because they were in a weird place. Marauder HAVs were removed because they were too powerful. Scout LAVs, Logistics LAVs, Logistics Dropships, and Enforcer HAVs were removed because they were in a weird place. Removed all of the variants of turrets (stabilized, etc) and completely overhauled the modules. Removed vehicles from Ambush. Now we're removing vehicles from Ambush OMS. I get that they're unbalanced, I get that they're a pressure point, but if you ask me, I think these changes are being made because vehicles were designed poorly from the get go. Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm fully willing to accept that possibility, but it's starting to look like that poor design isn't being evaluated correctly and the slippery slope of trying to deal with them is taking effect. What functional role can vehicles perform that infantry can't? Why should they perform that role? What are the ways that they can be designed to perform that role? What are the ways we can consider that doesn't make that role over-powered? That's all I got to say on that. Will post my other thoughts on the hotfix in a separate post. In my opinion vehicles should never have been in Ambush. Simple. It's not because they are unbalanced or other reasons. I would be happy to have a vehicle only mode but that's never going to happen, due to how vehicles are brought into the game, and optimization problems. I just don't think vehicles are entitled to be in every mode. We would only be punishing vehicles if they were banned from all game modes. That said, you still haven't addressed the initial concern that the poster was pointing out. That issue being that if I put all my skillpoints into using vehicles only because that's the type of toon I want to play, then I can no longer be a viable player in one of the matchtypes (i.e. Ambush). So the obvious answer is that not all matchtypes are meant for everyone and thus it is supposed to work that way. Vehicles, and thus the players that specialize into them only, exclude themselves from playing in those matches. Similarly, players that choose to only fight for one or two factions only have excluded themselves from fighting in the opposing faction matches. This is just the nature of the game.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6196	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:45:00 - [133] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In my opinion vehicles should never have been in Ambush. Simple. It's not because they are unbalanced or other reasons. I would be happy to have a vehicle only mode but that's never going to happen, due to how vehicles are brought into the game, and optimization problems. I just don't think vehicles are entitled to be in every mode. We would only be punishing vehicles if they were banned from all game modes.[/quote] Just the game-mode that they perform their slayer role best at, right? Sarcasm aside, just be careful. I understand the need for a vehicle-free game mode - hell, I enjoy it, myself - but it's starting to look very very bad for vehicle users and has been for some time. I think that's going to progress until we sit down and think about how vehicles impact the battlefield as a whole. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 590	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:46:00 - [134] - Quote RKKR wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Overall we need to start stepping back and start looking at the larger picture of things of teaching players proper roles for every class and the range of roles a class can fulfill; having an assault like attribute on a logistics suit is as I said before muddling. and what does this larger picture say about scouts then? The problem with CCP is that they have no bigger picture, long term plans as they like to claim. I think they are better of starting from scratch with all these roles + races + modules + high/low slots stuff. As I said a couple of patches before...building further on crap-mechanics is still going to give you crap. Scouts need to loose the sidearm slot.
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 940	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:48:00 - [135] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: RKKR wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Overall we need to start stepping back and start looking at the larger picture of things of teaching players proper roles for every class and the range of roles a class can fulfill; having an assault like attribute on a logistics suit is as I said before muddling. and what does this larger picture say about scouts then? The problem with CCP is that they have no bigger picture, long term plans as they like to claim. I think they are better of starting from scratch with all these roles + races + modules + high/low slots stuff. As I said a couple of patches before...building further on crap-mechanics is still going to give you crap. Scouts were in a bad place for a very long time; they can do a short while longer without a refresh though. As for starting from scrap comes the calls for respecs again and that will be a total mess once more and it would likely involve a lot of code to pull off. Some scouts more than others? They even outshine the scout-role, but I guess that the data will show that, but it seems we are basing things on CCP Rattati wrote: opinions now , so I don't have a clue anymore. Well, we have a total mess right now too, better to test things out now and saving Legion from another disaster I guess. Based on this hotfix...the calls for respecs will come again anyway...don't be afraid of that
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 590	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:50:00 - [136] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: I would very much like it if we changed the Assault bonuses from only affecting racial weapons to affecting all weapons. I believe that they were looking at a fitting bonus for ALL light weapons on the Assault suits. If this is the case, then that would address this concern of yours.
P14GU3 The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 790	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:51:00 - [137] - Quote Thats all well and good IWS, but coming from someone who was a gallente logi from beta-the most recent respec, carrying a swarm with no sidearm is a death wish. The PLC is not very good at AV or anti-infantry, and the MD (although one of my favorite weapons) and laser are no where near the "AV" mark. If the PLC was in a better place you could get away with calling it the "logi's AV," but its not worth it. Swarms with a sidearm or nothing at all. So now I'm reduced to a repping forgers while the enemy team has AV. I only play dust514ums now. It was always more fun than the actual game anyways.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15832	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:51:00 - [138] - Quote RKKR wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: RKKR wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Overall we need to start stepping back and start looking at the larger picture of things of teaching players proper roles for every class and the range of roles a class can fulfill; having an assault like attribute on a logistics suit is as I said before muddling. and what does this larger picture say about scouts then? The problem with CCP is that they have no bigger picture, long term plans as they like to claim. I think they are better of starting from scratch with all these roles + races + modules + high/low slots stuff. As I said a couple of patches before...building further on crap-mechanics is still going to give you crap. Scouts were in a bad place for a very long time; they can do a short while longer without a refresh though. As for starting from scrap comes the calls for respecs again and that will be a total mess once more and it would likely involve a lot of code to pull off. Some scouts more than others? But I guess that the data will show that, but it seems we are basing things on CCP Rattati wrote: opinions now , so I don't have a clue anymore. Well, we have a total mess right now too, better to test things out now and saving Legion from another disaster I guess. Based on this hotfix...the calls for respecs will come again anyway...don't be afraid of that Right the measurements of such changes need to be taken into account of their effects hence the cal scout nerf and amarr buff. Min scout needs love too and there are some still arguing a tone down on the gal scout. As for a delay on most logi related things to delta I can see this being feasible however slot parity needs to go ahead and go through as soon as possible to help with the conversation when it comes time to discuss it in hopes that suits will be much closer to intention by then. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15832	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:52:00 - [139] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Thats all well and good IWS, but coming from someone who was a gallente logi from beta-the most recent respec, carrying a swarm with no sidearm is a death wish. The PLC is not very good at AV or anti-infantry, and the MD (although one of my favorite weapons) and laser are no where near the "AV" mark. If the PLC was in a better place you could get away with calling it the "logi's AV," but its not worth it. Swarms with a sidearm or nothing at all. So now I'm reduced to a repping forgers while the enemy team has AV. You take that back about the PLC it is an amazing AV weapon! Generally because most vehicle people don't realize how amazing of an AV weapon it is until its too late. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 661	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:53:00 - [140] - Quote I don't think that Logis are in a bad spot right now. The popularity of Logi-suits compared to Assault suit stems from the fact that Scouts are better Assault suits than Assaults and the other half of the Assaults became heavies. With no Assaults on the ground of course Logis are relatively more popular. Restructuring Logis sounds like the completely wrong way to fix the problem. Also back on the Caldari/Amarr role-switch: Wasn't the original design for slots that people should share their main slot type between tank and other modules? A Caldari Scout should share precision and shields so we don't have super-eWar-super-shield-Scouts and a Gallente Scout should share dampeners and armor so you can't be tanked and dampened. That's why the range bonus fits so well with the Amarr scout. It can't have super range while also being super tanky. But I guess we can throw that sort of decision making out of the window now. Stacking ehp, it is.


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3752	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:53:00 - [141] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Thats all well and good IWS, but coming from someone who was a gallente logi from beta-the most recent respec, carrying a swarm with no sidearm is a death wish. The PLC is not very good at AV or anti-infantry, and the MD (although one of my favorite weapons) and laser are no where near the "AV" mark. If the PLC was in a better place you could get away with calling it the "logi's AV," but its not worth it. Swarms with a sidearm or nothing at all. So now I'm reduced to a repping forgers while the enemy team has AV. You take that back about the PLC it is an amazing AV weapon! Generally because most vehicle people don't realize how amazing of an AV weapon it is until its too late. pro hives, pro av nades and plc is a pretty decent logi av fit. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Dremel wp Shadow Company HQ Lokun Listamenn 32	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:58:00 - [142] - Quote snip Ok, I can see the confusion brewing, logi slots PER tier will be the same, 3, for ADV, 4 for PRO etc. Amarr sidearm is changed to Equipment slot and another slot added to bring them to the same total number of slots as other races at all tiers.[/quote] Proto Amarr and Caldari with 4 equipments are going to be a hell of a logi bomb.
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1480	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:58:00 - [143] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: snip The Nanite Injector WP scaling is great news. Is there any possibility of squeezing in tier based scaling for repair tools aswell? While to a lesser extent, they have the exact same problem of higher tiers being a clear downgrade in purely economic terms. Also, regarding OMS. Could you elaborate on why you believe further reducing the number of game modes, Pilots and AV infantry can participate in with their preferred playstyle, is necessary? Let me use a loaded question to articulate my concern: Would you say that non-AV capable infantry players require/deserve a vehicle free game mode for the sake of it, or is this decision purely driven by current balance issues and thus a (theoretically) temporary concession? Every single FPS game that I have played has a vehicle free TDM. I see no reason why DUST 514 should not have it. I am fine with vehicles moving to Dom and Skirm because they are objective based. The vehicle situation in Dust is different from any other game of the genre in that vehicles are almost always mere "pick-ups", ready to be taken for everyone who'd like to do so. Choosing to drive a tank in the BF series, for example, requires no prior investment, no long-term decision making or commitment to the playstyle/role this type of vehicle represents. You take it, you kill some, you blow up and then you move along. In most games, everyone is an infantry unit first and vehicles are just there to spice the game up with short bursts of asymmetrical gameplay. No one depends on vehicles being present to do his "job". Around here though, "piloting" is as much a set of roles as "infantry". One has to make long term investments beyond player skill to become a proficient pilot. These investments mean that one's infantry capabilities necessarily become under developed and thus uncompetitive compared to a pure infantry player of the same "level". Pilots are also expected to represent and serve a distinct role from infantry players, not just be another set of infantry players that happen to also have the ability to call in a vehicle. In Dust, tanking et al, is not a tacked-on feature. It's an equally valid way to play the game. The removal of vehicles from ambush has excluded not just pilots but also (to a lesser extent) AV infantry from participating in these modes with their chosen playstyle and possibly forces them to contribute below their capabilities in these modes should they want/need to. This, in my opinion, is a per say bad thing and should never be done unless the specific circumstances demand for it. Now, I might reluctantly concede that Infantry v. Pilot gameplay in these modes currently fails to provide consistently fair and fun engagements for a number of reasons. It's also possible Dust 514 might never achieve this due to current development constrains so that this step is necessary. It is, however, my expectation (and hope) that you will be working on Legion aswell at some point in the future so I have to take issue with the notion that vehicle gameplay is a priori expendable content that can, let alone should, be limited just because that's how distinctively different games handle it. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11725	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:58:00 - [144] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Thats all well and good IWS, but coming from someone who was a gallente logi from beta-the most recent respec, carrying a swarm with no sidearm is a death wish. The PLC is not very good at AV or anti-infantry, and the MD (although one of my favorite weapons) and laser are no where near the "AV" mark. If the PLC was in a better place you could get away with calling it the "logi's AV," but its not worth it. Swarms with a sidearm or nothing at all. So now I'm reduced to a repping forgers while the enemy team has AV. You take that back about the PLC it is an amazing AV weapon! Generally because most vehicle people don't realize how amazing of an AV weapon it is until its too late. pro hives, pro av nades and plc is a pretty decent logi av fit. Pro AV Grenades are just plain good now. I run every time I see a hull impact from one. "So you came back......My son, my Udorian son.....bearing the filthy blood of his heathen mother." - Eaderan Ouryon
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 942	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:01:00 - [145] - Quote @Plague, you should see me and Jodo clean up HAVs with the PLC since the latest hotfix . Iron Wolf Saber wrote: there are some still arguing a tone down on the gal scout. As for a delay on most logi related things to delta I can see this being feasible however slot parity needs to go ahead and go through as soon as possible to help with the conversation when it comes time to discuss it in hopes that suits will be much closer to intention by then. Please do continue on the arguing on the gal scout, it's ridiculous that they are unscannable with that amount of HP, that last part is certainly not the goal of a scout role especially if CCP wants to make assault suits more attractive. What is really the intention of the logi? Can it fullfill that intention with crap stamina/speed? ... Anyway I'm just going to wait on a reply from one of the DEVs on one of my previous comments .
P14GU3 The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 790	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:02:00 - [146] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Thats all well and good IWS, but coming from someone who was a gallente logi from beta-the most recent respec, carrying a swarm with no sidearm is a death wish. The PLC is not very good at AV or anti-infantry, and the MD (although one of my favorite weapons) and laser are no where near the "AV" mark. If the PLC was in a better place you could get away with calling it the "logi's AV," but its not worth it. Swarms with a sidearm or nothing at all. So now I'm reduced to a repping forgers while the enemy team has AV. You take that back about the PLC it is an amazing AV weapon! Generally because most vehicle people don't realize how amazing of an AV weapon it is until its too late. TBH, I havent used it since the recent vehicle changes. I havent played much at all since the Rouge Wedding. Maybe its in a better place now, I don't know, and I'm not afraid to admit it. I only play dust514ums now. It was always more fun than the actual game anyways.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15834	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:03:00 - [147] - Quote RKKR wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: there are some still arguing a tone down on the gal scout. As for a delay on most logi related things to delta I can see this being feasible however slot parity needs to go ahead and go through as soon as possible to help with the conversation when it comes time to discuss it in hopes that suits will be much closer to intention by then. Please do continue on the arguing on the gal scout, it's ridiculous that they are unscannable with that amount of HP, that last part is certainly not the goal of a scout role especially if CCP wants to make assault suits more attractive. What is really the intention of the logi? Can it fullfill that intention with crap stamina/speed? ... Anyway I'm just going to wait on a reply from one of the DEVs on one of my previous comments . Logistics are supposed to be facilitators of combat as time I checked. There is of course chance of change in definition over time but so far they've have been remaining to that goal still. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6412	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:03:00 - [148] - Quote Loving the Codebreakers moved to highslot idea. That really helps Gallente Role Players like me. On another note could you talk about what variable you want to increase FW LP by? Also do you think it possible to reward those that have already played FW with a special gift for each level or level amount to reward our loyalty in such trying times? see you space cowboy...

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3752	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:06:00 - [149] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Loving the Codebreakers moved to highslot idea. That really helps Gallente Role Players like me. On another note could you talk about what variable you want to increase FW LP by? Also do you think it possible to reward those that have already played FW with a special gift for each level or level amount to reward our loyalty in such trying times? I think Kagehoshi made a strong case for 2-3 fold, to be able to sustain a LP fitting lifestyle. You and fellow roleplayers can help on an idea I have on LP standings. Keep an eye out for a new topic. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Aisha Ctarl Praetoriani Classiarii Templares 4985	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:07:00 - [150] - Quote That Amarr scout bonus! Now I'm sad I retired. Scrambling brains since 5/14/13

Dalmont Legrand RUST 415 RUST415 481	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:08:00 - [151] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. * Installation buff, with a range and AI review, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement * Small rail range compared to sniper range * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS * Reduced ADS ISK price Still under tech evaluation * Passive Scan sharing with squads * Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Unfair fall damage calculation Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug Hotfix Delta or later Sidearm rebalance Sniper Rifle review Efficacy bonuses Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity Overall acceptance... but Passive scan If all suits share same system which is TACNET why lighting up enemy passively we can't send data to TACNET which sends it to another player who sees the same. Well if you use scan or aim at enemy he is actively observed and thus being scanned. When you are in squad together passive is almost useless however if you are scouting cloaked and light up passively enemies for you sniper who is awaiting for your light up, cloacked scout should pass by enemy without being noticed, if used scan enemy will know that he is scanned and will be aware. When passively scanned it doesn't say to enemy that you have been scanned, it detects signature of enemy interface for you, this allows to approach easily and if no scanner in squad it is handy for whole squad. Basically without passive scan only those that have scan are good, but what if I don't want to use scan? Don't reduce freedom of game play be eliminating some aspects like passive scan. Add for Delta fix as well that color of syringe symbol if in squad must be green for those who are from your squad and blue for the team. If out of the squad every syringe in team must be blue. Changes must be made to seem logic for universe they are being applied to. This makes it interesting, now if we start making changes because someone has curvy hands. No sir, don't try that. Keep it logic in context of eve universe. The best is yet to come No longer candidate
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3201	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:09:00 - [152] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: I don't think that Logis are in a bad spot right now. The popularity of Logi-suits compared to Assault suit stems from the fact that Scouts are better Assault suits than Assaults and the other half of the Assaults became heavies. With no Assaults on the ground of course Logis are relatively more popular. Restructuring Logis sounds like the completely wrong way to fix the problem. Also back on the Caldari/Amarr role-switch: Wasn't the original design for slots that people should share their main slot type between tank and other modules? A Caldari Scout should share precision and shields so we don't have super-eWar-super-shield-Scouts and a Gallente Scout should share dampeners and armor so you can't be tanked and dampened. That's why the range bonus fits so well with the Amarr scout. It can't have super range while also being super tanky. But I guess we can throw that sort of decision making out of the window now. Stacking ehp, it is. IMO, Logistics have too many High and Low slots while at the same time their bonuses being limited to only a single Equipment make them no better at being a support player than any other suit. to me that is not a good place. Logi bonus needs to make them better at using all equipment (not just fitting it). Assault bonus needs to make them better at assault role Appia Vibbia for CPM1 Empress of Alts
Harpyja Legio DXIV 2032	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:13:00 - [153] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In my opinion vehicles should never have been in Ambush. Simple. It's not because they are unbalanced or other reasons. I would be happy to have a vehicle only mode but that's never going to happen, due to how vehicles are brought into the game, and optimization problems. I just don't think vehicles are entitled to be in every mode. We would only be punishing vehicles if they were banned from all game modes. If vehicles are not entitled to be in every mode... Can AV be banned in skirmish? If vehicle pilots can't kill infantry in ambush, then it's only fair that infantry (AV) can't kill vehicles in a different game mode. Simple "By His light, and His will"- The Scriptures, 12:32 -- "Scouts should fart repeatedly while cloaked"- TechMechMeds
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11304	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:15:00 - [154] - Quote Completely unrelated, but I would like to hear your thoughts on the possibility of this since you're active on the forums right now. Even if you just tell me its never going to happen, at least I could then stop holding my breath for something. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
lithkul devant Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 269	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:20:00 - [155] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. * Installation buff, with a range and AI review, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement * Small rail range compared to sniper range * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS * Reduced ADS ISK price I have a few questions if I may ask them. 1. How much of a boost to LP are we talking about what are the theoretical numbers going to be? Currently Factional wars feel to be very low reward for a higher amount of risk then pubs. Especially since you can be trolled much easier in a factional then a pub, especially since the system does not kick people out quickly enough for "farming" Example, I was once killed 6 times in a row or more by a person on my team, they had a friend revive me with a militia injector then kill me as my character was doing a standup animation. How do you intend also to fix the heavy amount of trolling posibilities within factional? 2. By how much will the HMG heat be going up? Will you also be raising the amount of damage that HMGs do to vehicles in order to compensate, since this will be a nerf to total damage available. 3. While on the topic of vehicles, will any of the old mods for vehicles be comming back ever or not till legion? 4. How much of a PG/CPU nerf are you going to be doing to sentinels? Heavy suits are often used by new players in order to have enough reaction time to survive, will these also be affected?
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 786	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:21:00 - [156] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The Amarr scout will have a natural low range high precision scan, moving slowly and tanking because of close proximity. The Gallente scout will be the dampener master, being able to be unscannable by sacrificing a lot of slots. The Caldari scout will be the natural long range, low ehp hunter. All of them have the ability to change either range, dampening or precision to alter their desired utility. It doesn't make sense to give something a precision bonus when it has the lowest number of high slots. Also the Amarr has tons of lows to put range amps and dampening mods, which would make it the most versitile scout, which is able to have good precision and dampening or range. I think it would be better if it was more like this: Race__________Role___________________________Reasoning Amarr: High range & neutral precision. High number of lots of lows slots, with low number of highs. Caldari: High precision, neutral range. Most high slots with lowest number of lows. Gallente: Low profile with neutral range and precision. High number of lots of lows slots, with low number of highs. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 448	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:22:00 - [157] - Quote Dremel wp wrote: snip Ok, I can see the confusion brewing, logi slots PER tier will be the same, 3, for ADV, 4 for PRO etc. Amarr sidearm is changed to Equipment slot and another slot added to bring them to the same total number of slots as other races at all tiers. Proto Amarr and Caldari with 4 equipments are going to be a hell of a logi bomb.[/quote] As a Cal Logi, I fully endorse this change! Hell, it might even give me a reason to break out my Proto Logi suit for that 4th equipment slot. Now I can run Hives & Uplinks & Nanite injectors & Rep Tools? Oh sweet mercy. Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.
Pokey Dravon OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2249	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:23:00 - [158] - Quote I'm glad to see you're looking at the Assault and Logistics suits, improving HP and speed is fine and we'll see where they land after the hotfix is implemented. However, we still need not only define the assault role better, but also make sure that Logistics is not left behind due to lack of survivability. Like my ideas? Pokey Dravon for CPM1
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 944	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:23:00 - [159] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: RKKR wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: there are some still arguing a tone down on the gal scout. As for a delay on most logi related things to delta I can see this being feasible however slot parity needs to go ahead and go through as soon as possible to help with the conversation when it comes time to discuss it in hopes that suits will be much closer to intention by then. Please do continue on the arguing on the gal scout, it's ridiculous that they are unscannable with that amount of HP, that last part is certainly not the goal of a scout role especially if CCP wants to make assault suits more attractive. What is really the intention of the logi? Can it fullfill that intention with crap stamina/speed? ... Anyway I'm just going to wait on a reply from one of the DEVs on one of my previous comments . Logistics are supposed to be facilitators of combat as time I checked. There is of course chance of change in definition over time but so far they've have been remaining to that goal still. Well I don't think I'm ever going to see an answer... So Facillitators? How so? Not if they can't make it to the battle before it ends, unless the only thing you want facilitators to do is run behind a fat suit. The Amarr and Caldari bonus rely on spammable equipment that is destroyable and which is dependent on location once their equipment is used they have nothing left to facilitate if the combat moves to a different location. Even if the location,... doesn't change there is not much to do that fits their role due to the passive nature of their bonuses unless you use other equipment, but why should one use the Amarr and Caldari logi if the Minmatar and Gallente have the clear advantage in support-bonuses. Then there is the fact that switching out at the supply depot (which also means your not always near the combat) or dying renders the Amarr and Caldari bonus useless.
P14GU3 The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 792	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:24:00 - [160] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: I don't think that Logis are in a bad spot right now. The popularity of Logi-suits compared to Assault suit stems from the fact that Scouts are better Assault suits than Assaults and the other half of the Assaults became heavies. With no Assaults on the ground of course Logis are relatively more popular. Restructuring Logis sounds like the completely wrong way to fix the problem. Also back on the Caldari/Amarr role-switch: Wasn't the original design for slots that people should share their main slot type between tank and other modules? A Caldari Scout should share precision and shields so we don't have super-eWar-super-shield-Scouts and a Gallente Scout should share dampeners and armor so you can't be tanked and dampened. That's why the range bonus fits so well with the Amarr scout. It can't have super range while also being super tanky. But I guess we can throw that sort of decision making out of the window now. Stacking ehp, it is. IMO, Logistics have too many High and Low slots while at the same time their bonuses being limited to only a single Equipment make them no better at being a support player than any other suit. to me that is not a good place. Logi bonus needs to make them better at using all equipment (not just fitting it). Assault bonus needs to make them better at assault role This exactly. I was never a fan of the "racial logistics." A logi is a logi is a logi is a logi. I said long ago if you want to make them "different" on a racial scale they should be more defined defensively. Drop some slots, buff the base hp a bit and give them a bonus to shield extenders/rechargers and plates/reppers. Give them a massive equipment bonus (50% or greater) and drop cpu/pg. Assaults should have wait for it assault like bonuses. gasp like a 2% increase to its racial weapon damage or RoF. They have to get some kind of DPS boost over the logi, otherwise you are just nerfing the logi. I know the commandos already have that, but its really what it is going to take if people are going to go assault. I only play dust514ums now. It was always more fun than the actual game anyways.

Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 591	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:24:00 - [161] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Thats all well and good IWS, but coming from someone who was a gallente logi from beta-the most recent respec, carrying a swarm with no sidearm is a death wish. The PLC is not very good at AV or anti-infantry, and the MD (although one of my favorite weapons) and laser are no where near the "AV" mark. If the PLC was in a better place you could get away with calling it the "logi's AV," but its not worth it. Swarms with a sidearm or nothing at all. So now I'm reduced to a repping forgers while the enemy team has AV. I think you are doing it wrong... The AV equivalent for a logi suit is supposed to be prox mines or remote explosives, and you can add in the AV nades as some extra if you like.
DontChimpOut Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 15	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:25:00 - [162] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Thats all well and good IWS, but coming from someone who was a gallente logi from beta-the most recent respec, carrying a swarm with no sidearm is a death wish. The PLC is not very good at AV or anti-infantry, and the MD (although one of my favorite weapons) and laser are no where near the "AV" mark. If the PLC was in a better place you could get away with calling it the "logi's AV," but its not worth it. Swarms with a sidearm or nothing at all. So now I'm reduced to a repping forgers while the enemy team has AV. You take that back about the PLC it is an amazing AV weapon! Generally because most vehicle people don't realize how amazing of an AV weapon it is until its too late. pro hives, pro av nades and plc is a pretty decent logi av fit. Do you even play the game on a regular basis?

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3763	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:27:00 - [163] - Quote lithkul devant wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. * Installation buff, with a range and AI review, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement * Small rail range compared to sniper range * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS * Reduced ADS ISK price I have a few questions if I may ask them. 1. How much of a boost to LP are we talking about what are the theoretical numbers going to be? Currently Factional wars feel to be very low reward for a higher amount of risk then pubs. Especially since you can be trolled much easier in a factional then a pub, especially since the system does not kick people out quickly enough for "farming" Example, I was once killed 6 times in a row or more by a person on my team, they had a friend revive me with a militia injector then kill me as my character was doing a standup animation. How do you intend also to fix the heavy amount of trolling posibilities within factional? 2. By how much will the HMG heat be going up? Will you also be raising the amount of damage that HMGs do to vehicles in order to compensate, since this will be a nerf to total damage available. 3. While on the topic of vehicles, will any of the old mods for vehicles be comming back ever or not till legion? 4. How much of a PG/CPU nerf are you going to be doing to sentinels? Heavy suits are often used by new players in order to have enough reaction time to survive, will these also be affected? 1 Considerable 2 17, 18, enough to make it a skill weapon rather than spray and pray 3 If we are convinced, some might be brought back 4 Some, f.ex. pro GA can fit literally all proto with pg/cpu to spare "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 591	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:28:00 - [164] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: I don't think that Logis are in a bad spot right now. The popularity of Logi-suits compared to Assault suit stems from the fact that Scouts are better Assault suits than Assaults and the other half of the Assaults became heavies. With no Assaults on the ground of course Logis are relatively more popular. Restructuring Logis sounds like the completely wrong way to fix the problem. Also back on the Caldari/Amarr role-switch: Wasn't the original design for slots that people should share their main slot type between tank and other modules? A Caldari Scout should share precision and shields so we don't have super-eWar-super-shield-Scouts and a Gallente Scout should share dampeners and armor so you can't be tanked and dampened. That's why the range bonus fits so well with the Amarr scout. It can't have super range while also being super tanky. But I guess we can throw that sort of decision making out of the window now. Stacking ehp, it is. IMO, Logistics have too many High and Low slots while at the same time their bonuses being limited to only a single Equipment make them no better at being a support player than any other suit. to me that is not a good place. Logi bonus needs to make them better at using all equipment (not just fitting it). Assault bonus needs to make them better at assault role They already have a role bonus that affects ALL equipment... It's a fitting bonus.
B-F M Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 27	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:32:00 - [165] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ...The Caldari scout will be the natural long range, low ehp hunter... I like where you're going with this.. I am all for limiting the ability to brick tank on cal scouts (currently possible to have around 500eHP while still maintaining other bonuses - e.g. check this guy out) My main issue with the cal scout is that it has too many advantages: - can be invisible - can see position/location of all non gal-scout enemies up to ~50m - can tank shields - super fast movement/strafe - and still has enough PG/CPU to fit a lethal light weapon/sidearm Awesome roadmap for this release. Can't wait (for my new min commando suit colors)! Ghosts of Dawn // now recruiting.
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 944	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:35:00 - [166] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Thats all well and good IWS, but coming from someone who was a gallente logi from beta-the most recent respec, carrying a swarm with no sidearm is a death wish. The PLC is not very good at AV or anti-infantry, and the MD (although one of my favorite weapons) and laser are no where near the "AV" mark. If the PLC was in a better place you could get away with calling it the "logi's AV," but its not worth it. Swarms with a sidearm or nothing at all. So now I'm reduced to a repping forgers while the enemy team has AV. I think you are doing it wrong... The AV equivalent for a logi suit is supposed to be prox mines or remote explosives, and you can add in the AV nades as some extra if you like. Any decent tanker spots (or has someone spotting) those. Also good luck in getting close enough to a decent tanker to throw those AVs in a slow ass, small pool stamina suit without getting shot into pieces.
THE-PIMP-NAMED-SLICKBACK Intrepidus XI EoN. 178	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:36:00 - [167] - Quote Don't know if this has already been said but the assault dropsuit bonuss need some changes. Preferably the caldari and gallente considering they're nowhere up to par with the minmatar and amarr. Planetside 2 Eventually Eh
Eko Sol Strange Playings 552	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:38:00 - [168] - Quote I believe a percentage of people chose A-Logi for the AV aspect. I wanted fast uplinks. It so happens I run swarms and 2 side arm damage mods with my Magsec as well. Since there is no equivalent I believe, if this change happens, it warrants a respect to logi. I don't want the logi if I can't have my side arm. I'm just going to grind the heck out of FW and get LP uplinks and run a scout fit with swarms and those uplinks. In addition, I still have some AUR proto A-Logi suits. It is not only unfair but I may do significant research on any legality issues. I spent my hard earned money. I work my self half to death my whole career for reputation and money. I've gotten quite good at what I do for the simple fact I want money for my family and myself. I've mowed lawns when I was 9 and my family was practically poor. I have a serious attachment to what my money means to me since I have sacrificed so much time for formal and informal education, OJT, and pure self study and labs. This change will negatively impact my financial investment into the game which is not only reckless but downright disrespectful. I've invested and continue to invest my personal money into the game so whatever few employees you guys have can feed their kids and themselves. I think massive changes to items I have spent AUR on and others spent AUR should be taken into consideration. I would be much more alright with the change if it didn't effect AUR items. Thus the A-Logi AUR suits should have the same exact layout as they do now. Post Distaste for A-Logi changes in Charlie here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2249908#post2249908
P14GU3 The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 792	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:38:00 - [169] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Thats all well and good IWS, but coming from someone who was a gallente logi from beta-the most recent respec, carrying a swarm with no sidearm is a death wish. The PLC is not very good at AV or anti-infantry, and the MD (although one of my favorite weapons) and laser are no where near the "AV" mark. If the PLC was in a better place you could get away with calling it the "logi's AV," but its not worth it. Swarms with a sidearm or nothing at all. So now I'm reduced to a repping forgers while the enemy team has AV. I think you are doing it wrong... The AV equivalent for a logi suit is supposed to be prox mines or remote explosives, and you can add in the AV nades as some extra if you like. I have been doing remotes for a long time now, basically since the swarm nerf. Swarms are in a better place now, and I would rather not die 50% of the time trying to place 3 remotes on the tailpipe. Besides, you will rarely ever get a GOOD tanker with that. I only play dust514ums now. It was always more fun than the actual game anyways.
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Cornballs Get Stonewalled 867	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:39:00 - [170] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: IMO, Logistics have too many High and Low slots while at the same time their bonuses being limited to only a single Equipment make them no better at being a support player than any other suit. to me that is not a good place. Logi bonus needs to make them better at using all equipment (not just fitting it). Assault bonus needs to make them better at assault role This is why I fracking voted for you . I just can't get enough of the truth and people who love the same . It would be better if Logistics had a bonus that increases the efficacy of all equipment not just race related items . Making the bonuses separate depending on race just created a oversaturation of one races logi or assault or any suit or role for that matter . I for one am Caldari but I had to speck into Minmatar to be a medic and Amarr to lay hives and anti-vehicle . This is just too much and should be a choice and not mandatory . I'm forced to speck into another races items which excluded my own . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.

Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Cornballs Get Stonewalled 867	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:43:00 - [171] - Quote B-F M wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: ...The Caldari scout will be the natural long range, low ehp hunter... I like where you're going with this.. I am all for limiting the ability to brick tank on cal scouts (currently possible to have around 500eHP while still maintaining other bonuses - e.g. check this guy out) My main issue with the cal scout is that it has too many advantages: - can be invisible - can see position/location of all non gal-scout enemies up to ~50m - can tank shields - super fast movement/strafe - and still has enough PG/CPU to fit a lethal light weapon/sidearm Awesome roadmap for this release. Can't wait (for my new min commando suit colors)! Are you serious ??? Brick tank Caldari scouts ??? That doesn't even sound right and basically your talking about the wrong race . I play every day and I have never seen a bricked out Caldari scout , NEVER since the employment of full racial . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 786	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:45:00 - [172] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: B-F M wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: ...The Caldari scout will be the natural long range, low ehp hunter... I like where you're going with this.. I am all for limiting the ability to brick tank on cal scouts (currently possible to have around 500eHP while still maintaining other bonuses - e.g. check this guy out) My main issue with the cal scout is that it has too many advantages: - can be invisible - can see position/location of all non gal-scout enemies up to ~50m - can tank shields - super fast movement/strafe - and still has enough PG/CPU to fit a lethal light weapon/sidearm Awesome roadmap for this release. Can't wait (for my new min commando suit colors)! Are you serious ??? Brick tank Caldari scouts ??? That doesn't even sound right and basically your talking about the wrong race . I play every day and I have never seen a bricked out Caldari scout , NEVER since the employment of full racial . You probably haven't seen the ones that stack armor plates, have 2 precision mods and 2 extenders. There are a lot of those running around in all game modes. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3555	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:45:00 - [173] - Quote B-F M wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: ...The Caldari scout will be the natural long range, low ehp hunter... I like where you're going with this.. I am all for limiting the ability to brick tank on cal scouts (currently possible to have around 500eHP while still maintaining other bonuses - e.g. check this guy out) My main issue with the cal scout is that it has too many advantages: - can be invisible - can see position/location of all non gal-scout enemies up to ~50m - can tank shields - super fast movement/strafe - and still has enough PG/CPU to fit a lethal light weapon/sidearm Awesome roadmap for this release. Can't wait (for my new min commando suit colors)! If I want to be invisible I need 2 complex damps which leaves me with 87 armor. If I want to see other who are using 2 damps I need at least 3 precision which leaves me with 235 Shields. If I only want to have better than average scans and don't use a single precision mod I have 453 shields. So if I want to scan other scouts using damps I only have 235 shields and 87 armor to adequately damp from other cal scouts. Or I can try to brick tank the lows with 300 armor but i'm quite scannable. Agree of fittings although some of that has to do with the precision mods being quite good fitting wise. The profit offered will be scanned down by a double complex precision scout and can be avoided by any scout running double damps or even perhaps a single proto damp and a proto cloak currently. Candidate for CPM1 Go VOTE! Dust514.com They call me Princess Zatata <3
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4026	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:46:00 - [174] - Quote I bet Cross Atu is VERY happy about the 25/50/75 for injectors I'm so happy for this as well you don't even know. but the logi changes don't look very good.. I will be making a video about this to talk specifically about it. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 72	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:49:00 - [175] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. * Installation buff, with a range and AI review, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement * Small rail range compared to sniper range * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS * Reduced ADS ISK price Still under tech evaluation * Passive Scan sharing with squads * Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Unfair fall damage calculation Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug Hotfix Delta or later Sidearm rebalance Sniper Rifle review Efficacy bonuses Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity Messing with the logi and not letting them fit their cloaks is no good man, they have fun with that. Is that really an issue? Leave the amar sidearm alone, thats their thing. Jesus who is telling you this is a problem? Someone who must be terrible at this game., I like alot of what I hear, but there are so few logis now. I think that a small cpu or pg buff along with some better base ewar stats would make the assault suit all it needs to be. Buff its range and precision so that we can see threats as we flank, with the exception of scouts. But aside from scouts buff our ewar. My suit is fine Id just like, a little more cpu pg andmI think assaults are in a good place.
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 408	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:53:00 - [176] - Quote I disagree with removing the amar logi side arm and giving all logi class the same equipment slots.... where will the diversity go between suits? the bonus alone is not a good insentive, unless your a min logi with 10% to reps. I know I use my Templar amar logi as an av with swarms because of the side arm... its a nice little difference between the other logis who have only one weapon slot. and again 4 slots for min and gallente for equipment give those two suits different incentive to skill into. also for pete's sake why wont you fix the sprint bug? please rattati at least acknowledge its existence and tell us why you cant fix it.
LOBO LOBOS MOOSE-KNUCKLEz CLAN 2	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:55:00 - [177] - Quote A little irrelevant, but what colors were messed up?
Kalante Schiffer Ancient Exiles. 643	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:00:00 - [178] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: snip The Nanite Injector WP scaling is great news. Is there any possibility of squeezing in tier based scaling for repair tools aswell? While to a lesser extent, they have the exact same problem of higher tiers being a clear downgrade in purely economic terms. Also, regarding OMS. Could you elaborate on why you believe further reducing the number of game modes, Pilots and AV infantry can participate in with their preferred playstyle, is necessary? Let me use a loaded question to articulate my concern: Would you say that non-AV capable infantry players require/deserve a vehicle free game mode for the sake of it, or is this decision purely driven by current balance issues and thus a (theoretically) temporary concession? Every single FPS game that I have played has a vehicle free TDM. I see no reason why DUST 514 should not have it. I am fine with vehicles moving to Dom and Skirm because they are objective based. take my like.
Brush Master HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 1269	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:04:00 - [179] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: RKKR wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: For some reason I had 25% versus 15% for scouts, thanks for the correction. We can drop the removal of the bonus to cloaks no problem. Are you also aware that the logi-suit has less HP AND less speed/stamina than the assault suit? I thought more armor would slow you down? Yet the assault are possibly going to get a speed increasement? So can we drop the slowing down of logis also? Or at the minimum give the logis a waaaaay better stamina pool...god I miss the days of the Type-2 logi suit... I can agree to a stamina buff. They do a bit running around with all the people screaming for someone to save them. agreed, they do need more stamina. Dust Veteran. June 2012 - ? True Logi. Flying DS from the start. @dustreports
Eko Sol Strange Playings 563	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:10:00 - [180] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: side arm shouldn't change either well we could go the stupid way and make logis sidearms only if you like them that much... :P Overall we need to start stepping back and start looking at the larger picture of things of teaching players proper roles for every class and the range of roles a class can fulfill; having an assault like attribute on a logistics suit is as I said before muddling. This is also what we call an extreme outlier; a case where the faction option in question is so far out of its league it might as well be another class. This is where it starts to become more difficult to balance because you now need to justify the weight of having said option. A side arm in the future can be exceptionally heavy stat and even worse so an endeared stat when it does come time to finally remove outliers like this. The removal should bring the alogi back home into the house of the logi instead of him living in the pool house. Also I don't know why you guys are a bit overly too focused on this; you have an opportunity to make the amarr logi something better in other areas where it was weak before with CCP Ratatti being part of the conversation. WE DON'T WANT MORE EQUIPMENT AND MODULE SLOTS. We want our god damn Side Arm. You are CPM. You are supposed to support the masses whether you agree or not. Fight for us and not your warped sense of appealing to CCP. You don't play. You know what. Look up my monthly numbers already. Look where I am at. I play 65% AV right now so the lack of kills is from redrats jumping out of drop ships I shoot down. I run A-Logi a lot and get WP for my fast uplinks thus high WP. I have tons of WP from completely legitimate playing. I got over 5k WP today from forging and swarming vehicles and some uplinks. 2nd place was Southpac at almost 5k. 3rd place was about 1300 wp. We had top kills as well. We had great KDR. We push to be the best players we can be no matter how terrible our blueberries are. You should not be arguing with a player that puts this much AUR, Time, and effort into this game. Maybe CCP Ratatti can post the hours I play. Yes, I currently have no life while trying to save money but that fully justifies why players like myself and others who put in the hours should be listened to and supported. All of the logis are fine. The speed nerf is a maybe for me. Fine, just don't change anything else. Start more conversation topics and do the changes in delta. DEFEND US IWS. Not one person has provided feedback and said "can't wait till my A-Logi loses it's side arm and gets modules and equipment". Not one. I stand by the fact that I should AT LEAST keep the current layout for AUR gear if I don't get a respec. I'll eat the money (I don't want to) if I get a respec. Post Distaste for A-Logi changes in Charlie here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2249908#post2249908

Gelan Corbaine Gladiators Vanguard 469	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:15:00 - [181] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Every single FPS game that I have played has a vehicle free TDM. I see no reason why DUST 514 should not have it. I am fine with vehicles moving to Dom and Skirm because they are objective based. They are also long.....and quite usually much more costly compared to Ambush . Completely taking away the only quick option for Vehicle and AV troopers is a bad BAD idea. The Ambush OMS separation was working fine. There are times I have 30 mins to play ....which is enough for three Ambushes to make some cash rather than one Ski/Dom to make much less. No job is worth doing if you don't get paid in the end .
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3525	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:18:00 - [182] - Quote As you can see only ONE guy likes the change to the A-logi ONE!!! Let that sink in for a bit. Its alright everyone, no need to worry it's just an Amarr scout :(
Eko Sol Strange Playings 564	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:20:00 - [183] - Quote Gelan Corbaine wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Every single FPS game that I have played has a vehicle free TDM. I see no reason why DUST 514 should not have it. I am fine with vehicles moving to Dom and Skirm because they are objective based. They are also long.....and quite usually much more costly compared to Ambush . Completely taking away the only quick option for Vehicle and AV troopers is a bad BAD idea. The Ambush OMS separation was working fine. There are times I have 30 mins to play ....which is enough for three Ambushes to make some cash rather than one Ski/Dom to make much less. Although I and others agree this will not change. Too many people dislike vehicles. You are correct. I used to do ambush because of how quick the battles were. Now 50 clone matches are almost as long as a dom with serious limitations on WP making it not worth while. Dom will now be the highest WP and ISK farming mode and thus ambush will be dead. I also notice it takes longer to get into a Ambush now. Post Distaste for A-Logi changes in Charlie here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2249908#post2249908
Gelan Corbaine Gladiators Vanguard 469	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:23:00 - [184] - Quote Harpyja wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: In my opinion vehicles should never have been in Ambush. Simple. It's not because they are unbalanced or other reasons. I would be happy to have a vehicle only mode but that's never going to happen, due to how vehicles are brought into the game, and optimization problems. I just don't think vehicles are entitled to be in every mode. We would only be punishing vehicles if they were banned from all game modes. If vehicles are not entitled to be in every mode... Can AV be banned in skirmish? If vehicle pilots can't kill infantry in ambush, then it's only fair that infantry (AV) can't kill vehicles in a different game mode. Simple Hey hey hey now Harp remember us AV troopers are not your enemy here ............ ok we ARE your enemy but not on this issue ! No job is worth doing if you don't get paid in the end .
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 409	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:24:00 - [185] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: side arm shouldn't change either well we could go the stupid way and make logis sidearms only if you like them that much... :P Overall we need to start stepping back and start looking at the larger picture of things of teaching players proper roles for every class and the range of roles a class can fulfill; having an assault like attribute on a logistics suit is as I said before muddling. This is also what we call an extreme outlier; a case where the faction option in question is so far out of its league it might as well be another class. This is where it starts to become more difficult to balance because you now need to justify the weight of having said option. A side arm in the future can be exceptionally heavy stat and even worse so an endeared stat when it does come time to finally remove outliers like this. The removal should bring the alogi back home into the house of the logi instead of him living in the pool house. Also I don't know why you guys are a bit overly too focused on this; you have an opportunity to make the amarr logi something better in other areas where it was weak before with CCP Ratatti being part of the conversation. WE DON'T WANT MORE EQUIPMENT AND MODULE SLOTS. We want our god damn Side Arm. You are CPM. You are supposed to support the masses whether you agree or not. Fight for us and not your warped sense of appealing to CCP. You don't play. You know what. Look up my monthly numbers already. Look where I am at. I play 65% AV right now so the lack of kills is from redrats jumping out of drop ships I shoot down. I run A-Logi a lot and get WP for my fast uplinks thus high WP. I have tons of WP from completely legitimate playing. I got over 5k WP today from forging and swarming vehicles and some uplinks. 2nd place was Southpac at almost 5k. 3rd place was about 1300 wp. We had top kills as well. We had great KDR. We push to be the best players we can be no matter how terrible our blueberries are. You should not be arguing with a player that puts this much AUR, Time, and effort into this game. Maybe CCP Ratatti can post the hours I play. Yes, I currently have no life while trying to save money but that fully justifies why players like myself and others who put in the hours should be listened to and supported. All of the logis are fine. The speed nerf is a maybe for me. Fine, just don't change anything else. Start more conversation topics and do the changes in delta. DEFEND US IWS. Not one person has provided feedback and said "can't wait till my A-Logi loses it's side arm and gets modules and equipment". Not one. I stand by the fact that I should AT LEAST keep the current layout for AUR gear if I don't get a respec. I'll eat the money (I don't want to) if I get a respec. IWS is incapable of defending us.... ccp doesn't give belly rubs for stading up for the community.... but this is all true, the amar may need tweaking but taking away its side arm and turning all logis into generic logi with no real difference but a racial bonus is so wrong.... rattati, the cpm simply doesn't play dust enough to have the full picture of what needs to be done, and unfortunately most of the forum warriors are self serving , looking to nerf whatever they don't play... I'm a min logi, I use my Templar bpo logi for av occasionally, its perfect for this the way it is....if anything is wrong with logies as they are its the racial bonuses... the only one worth spit is the minmitar one... maybe re evealuating the bonuses may be a better place to improve them instead of just making them all the same with the present racial bonus the only difference... mark my words, if you go this route, the only logi you will ever see is the min logi....
Eko Sol Strange Playings 564	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:25:00 - [186] - Quote Harpyja wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: In my opinion vehicles should never have been in Ambush. Simple. It's not because they are unbalanced or other reasons. I would be happy to have a vehicle only mode but that's never going to happen, due to how vehicles are brought into the game, and optimization problems. I just don't think vehicles are entitled to be in every mode. We would only be punishing vehicles if they were banned from all game modes. If vehicles are not entitled to be in every mode... Can AV be banned in skirmish? If vehicle pilots can't kill infantry in ambush, then it's only fair that infantry (AV) can't kill vehicles in a different game mode. Simple I 100% agree. Maybe make an OMS and NON OMS mode selectable by choice and not automatic? Post Distaste for A-Logi changes in Charlie here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2249908#post2249908
Grand Master Kubo PIanet Express Canis Eliminatus Operatives 89	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:28:00 - [187] - Quote I strongly suggest removing one equipment slot from scouts. This is coming from someone who has used scouts for over a year. Giving scouts two equipment slots makes them too versatile. Scouts do not need two equipment slots.
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 3083	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:28:00 - [188] - Quote Remove the sidearm from the only proto suit i've been able to afford and that pretty much seals the deal for me to never return to Dust. I understand the idea of normalizing the slot layouts but I feel its the wrong way to go personally. The sidearm on the Amarr Logi is what made that suit fun. Having experienced having a sidearm and 3 equipment I could never go back to only having a single weapon. I honestly can't see a reason why you would run a logistics suit over a scout unless you want to run a minmatar medic suit. Amarr logi bridged the gap between minmatar medic and scout-logis. If you look at the numbers, something tells me the Amarr and Minmater logi suits probably greatly outnumber the caldari and gallente logis now. Its not hard to imagine why that might be, uplinks and rep tools are by far the most useful equipments available. I would love to see the number on logi sutis in general, in pubs there are enough WP farmers running rep tools to keep the numbers high but in general they are becoming rather underpowered in general. With scouts and heavies the way they are after 1.7 and 1.8 it seems that straight buffs to the medium suits make more sense to me. imho... adding a sidearm to caldari and doing a slot normalization that way makes much more sense. You have caldari and amarr as 'combat logi' suits with bonuses more oriented towards being near the frontline (uplinks and ammo) while minmatar and gallente logis would be more inclined to focus on their 'active equipment' using rep tools and scanners more in general and not being so inclined to need a sidearm.
Fizzer94 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2875	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:28:00 - [189] - Quote I sure am glad I decided not to get A-logi again. Also, by "Sidearm Rebalance" in Hotfix Delta, I hope you mean "we are buffing pistols". My best match on Dust, 23/6/4 Placon. Please unnerf ScPs and fix IoPs...
B-F M Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 27	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:29:00 - [190] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: B-F M wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: ...The Caldari scout will be the natural long range, low ehp hunter... snip If I want to be invisible I need 2 complex damps which leaves me with 87 armor. If I want to see other who are using 2 damps I need at least 3 precision which leaves me with 235 Shields. If I only want to have better than average scans and don't use a single precision mod I have 453 shields. So if I want to scan other scouts using damps I only have 235 shields and 87 armor to adequately damp from other cal scouts. Or I can try to brick tank the lows with 300 armor but i'm quite scannable. Agree of fittings although some of that has to do with the precision mods being quite good fitting wise. The profit offered will be scanned down by a double complex precision scout and can be avoided by any scout running double damps or even perhaps a single proto damp and a proto cloak currently. Your examples are correct, but it seems like you are talking about extremes, I don't mean invisible as in "unscannable by the best scanners", I just meant it more generally.. mainly referring to a cloak in that it is invisible to the majority of other players (although this varies based on lighting as we all know). The example fit I posted will not be able to scan literally every other player, but it'll pick up every non-scout player (up to low-dampened scouts) - which is usually most of the enemy team. My argument was comparing the cal scout to assault classes in that it has many advantages that are impossible to achieve with any assault, sorry I should've clarified Ghosts of Dawn // now recruiting.

Benjamin Ciscko The Last of DusT. General Tso's Alliance 2452	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:30:00 - [191] - Quote OB's should cost 3750 war points which would go along with the previous 625wps per person we originally had when it was 4 to a squad with 2500 being the OB cost. 2500/4=625 625*6=3750 The OB changes will make EVE support much more valuable in PC. Tanker/Logi 0 The number of 7ucks given
B-F M Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 27	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:33:00 - [192] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: B-F M wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: ...The Caldari scout will be the natural long range, low ehp hunter... I like where you're going with this.. I am all for limiting the ability to brick tank on cal scouts (currently possible to have around 500eHP while still maintaining other bonuses - e.g. check this guy out) My main issue with the cal scout is that it has too many advantages: - can be invisible - can see position/location of all non gal-scout enemies up to ~50m - can tank shields - super fast movement/strafe - and still has enough PG/CPU to fit a lethal light weapon/sidearm Awesome roadmap for this release. Can't wait (for my new min commando suit colors)! Are you serious ??? Brick tank Caldari scouts ??? That doesn't even sound right and basically your talking about the wrong race . I play every day and I have never seen a bricked out Caldari scout , NEVER since the employment of full racial . Check out the fit I posted, it's totally viable, has just under 500eHP while still maintaining vastly above average situational awareness, speed, damage and a low profile. They are rare, but I'm surprised (and envious) you've not come up against them. Ghosts of Dawn // now recruiting.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15835	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:37:00 - [193] - Quote LOBO LOBOS wrote: A little irrelevant, but what colors were messed up? Cal heavy, amarr scout, gal heavy few others. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 6048	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:38:00 - [194] - Quote B-F M wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: B-F M wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: ...The Caldari scout will be the natural long range, low ehp hunter... I like where you're going with this.. I am all for limiting the ability to brick tank on cal scouts (currently possible to have around 500eHP while still maintaining other bonuses - e.g. check this guy out) My main issue with the cal scout is that it has too many advantages: - can be invisible - can see position/location of all non gal-scout enemies up to ~50m - can tank shields - super fast movement/strafe - and still has enough PG/CPU to fit a lethal light weapon/sidearm Awesome roadmap for this release. Can't wait (for my new min commando suit colors)! Are you serious ??? Brick tank Caldari scouts ??? That doesn't even sound right and basically your talking about the wrong race . I play every day and I have never seen a bricked out Caldari scout , NEVER since the employment of full racial . Check out the fit I posted, it's totally viable, has just under 500eHP while still maintaining vastly above average situational awareness, speed, damage and a low profile. They are rare, but I'm surprised (and envious) you've not come up against them. You're not hiding from anything with that fit. Just saying. Maybe in your run of the mill pubmatch where nobody runs counters to anything but that fit will get spotted no problem in a PC match. <500 ehp is not "brick tanked." That's your average EHP of a scout in general. Things are generally refered to as bricked tanked when every mod is EHP. Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 674	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:39:00 - [195] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Can you clarify this? I was under the impression that the stacking of bonuses for dropship gunners was intended to be a reward for skill points invested in the role, not a bug. I don't believe this is as much of an issue as people seem to think it is. Not only is it a massive investment of skill points and time on the part of the pilot/gunner, but by fitting an extra turret it reduces the dropship's fitting capabilities and creates a risk-reward scenario. If it has to be changed in some way, can we at least reward gunners with some sort of bonus for their chosen profession and allocation of time? Perhaps cut the ROF bonus in half or allow gunners to otherwise apply tangible buffs to the vehicles they are riding in. Purchase Aurum Today!

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3788	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:40:00 - [196] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Remove the sidearm from the only proto suit i've been able to afford and that pretty much seals the deal for me to never return to Dust. I understand the idea of normalizing the slot layouts but I feel its the wrong way to go personally. The sidearm on the Amarr Logi is what made that suit fun. Having experienced having a sidearm and 3 equipment I could never go back to only having a single weapon. I honestly can't see a reason why you would run a logistics suit over a scout unless you want to run a minmatar medic suit. Amarr logi bridged the gap between minmatar medic and scout-logis. If you look at the numbers, something tells me the Amarr and Minmater logi suits probably greatly outnumber the caldari and gallente logis now. Its not hard to imagine why that might be, uplinks and rep tools are by far the most useful equipments available. I would love to see the number on logi sutis in general, in pubs there are enough WP farmers running rep tools to keep the numbers high but in general they are becoming rather underpowered in general. With scouts and heavies the way they are after 1.7 and 1.8 it seems that straight buffs to the medium suits make more sense to me. imho... adding a sidearm to caldari and doing a slot normalization that way makes much more sense. You have caldari and amarr as 'combat logi' suits with bonuses more oriented towards being near the frontline (uplinks and ammo) while minmatar and gallente logis would be more inclined to focus on their 'active equipment' using rep tools and scanners more in general and not being so inclined to need a sidearm. The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance. The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Mikey Ducati Resheph Interstellar Strategy Gallente Federation 159	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:40:00 - [197] - Quote Don't take away Ambush OMS. It's fun. You have 80 clones to kill with vehicles and installations. Its much more interesting than 50 clones to kill. I hardly ever see any tanks and if I do, they are manageable. If I had a choice I would queue up OMS over regular Ambush. Why are we changing heavies? Due to the GD tears? Heavies should be left alone. They are not a threat to me if I play smart. Heavies are in a good place. Changing them will only force players to migrate to another suit where you will look to change that. Installation buff would only cause more problems down the road. The tears will flow. No need to reduce the WP for destruction to discourage the destruction of them. They will still happen regardless of the points. It's a matter of principle that they are destroyed. It's tactical. It's up to players to protect their installations, not on CCP. Lowering the ADS cost is another tank problem waiting to happen. Tell me you're buffing the AV along with that? Surely you must know that will cause players to rush towards ADS and use them to farm points in Ambush. I'm totally against the ALogi changes because there's a saying that states "If it isn't broke, don't fix it". I would rather talk about game modes. When are we going to discuss that?
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 1682	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:41:00 - [198] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: WE DON'T WANT MORE EQUIPMENT AND MODULE SLOTS. We want our god damn Side Arm. You are CPM. You are supposed to support the masses whether you agree or not. Fight for us and not your warped sense of appealing to CCP. You don't play. You know what. Look up my monthly numbers already. Look where I am at. I play 65% AV right now so the lack of kills is from redrats jumping out of drop ships I shoot down. I run A-Logi a lot and get WP for my fast uplinks thus high WP. I have tons of WP from completely legitimate playing. I got over 5k WP today from forging and swarming vehicles and some uplinks. 2nd place was Southpac at almost 5k. 3rd place was about 1300 wp. We had top kills as well. We had great KDR. We push to be the best players we can be no matter how terrible our blueberries are. You should not be arguing with a player that puts this much AUR, Time, and effort into this game. Maybe CCP Ratatti can post the hours I play. Yes, I currently have no life while trying to save money but that fully justifies why players like myself and others who put in the hours should be listened to and supported. All of the logis are fine. The speed nerf is a maybe for me. Fine, just don't change anything else. Start more conversation topics and do the changes in delta. DEFEND US IWS. Not one person has provided feedback and said "can't wait till my A-Logi loses it's side arm and gets modules and equipment". Not one. I stand by the fact that I should AT LEAST keep the current layout for AUR gear if I don't get a respec. I'll eat the money (I don't want to) if I get a respec. Voice your opinion but don't speak for the community. I'm sure there are some amarr logi's that are excited about becoming more logi and less assault. From what you described wouldn't having another equipment slot help you farm war points by being able to carry more uplinks? I don't know how I feel about the speed Nerf, my cal logi is already noticeably slower than my assault counterparts. For the cal logi role, I wouldn't want to be so slow I couldn't keep up with an advance and not be able to put down my hives at the right time/good spot.
Beld Errmon 1751	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:42:00 - [199] - Quote Mauren NOON wrote: PANDA UZIMAKI wrote: [quote=CCP Rattati]All, * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS * Reduced ADS ISK price Pilot stacking bug removing vehicles from ambush all together huh? I wouldn't advice it seeing that that's where all the proto stompers get their fastest kills and like I said before the only people to put them in like is vehicle support. Now you can listen to the requests of the many rattati or you can listen to the request of the ones who are actually right on this subject. Reducing ADS prices is just a TERRIBLE IDEA I MEAN THINK ABOUT IT no im just kidding its awesome crazy over priced please do that there weak as heck anyways they need love for once. and by the pilot stack bug do you mean the gunner being able to shoot the full say 70% faster but in return the pilot only being able to shoot say only his 40% if that's what he has his skill lvl on? He would be right....that helps dropships and gunners. It makes python able to do AV. I wouldn't call that a bug. It's an incentive for putting all of that sp into that skill no, its a bug and people exploit the F out of it, its not the nice small numbers that duna pet states, its more like gunner gets 120% dmg 100% rof and twice as much ammo, couldn't be fixed sooner. Pilot - Tanker - FOTM (insert here)
B-F M Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 27	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:43:00 - [200] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: B-F M wrote: Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: B-F M wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: ...The Caldari scout will be the natural long range, low ehp hunter... I like where you're going with this.. I am all for limiting the ability to brick tank on cal scouts (currently possible to have around 500eHP while still maintaining other bonuses - e.g. check this guy out) My main issue with the cal scout is that it has too many advantages: - can be invisible - can see position/location of all non gal-scout enemies up to ~50m - can tank shields - super fast movement/strafe - and still has enough PG/CPU to fit a lethal light weapon/sidearm Awesome roadmap for this release. Can't wait (for my new min commando suit colors)! Are you serious ??? Brick tank Caldari scouts ??? That doesn't even sound right and basically your talking about the wrong race . I play every day and I have never seen a bricked out Caldari scout , NEVER since the employment of full racial . Check out the fit I posted, it's totally viable, has just under 500eHP while still maintaining vastly above average situational awareness, speed, damage and a low profile. They are rare, but I'm surprised (and envious) you've not come up against them. You're not hiding from anything with that fit. Just saying. Maybe in your run of the mill pubmatch where nobody runs counters to anything but that fit will get spotted no problem in a PC match. <500 ehp is not "brick tanked." That's your average EHP of a scout in general. Things are generally refered to as bricked tanked when every mod is EHP. Yeah good point(s). You're correct that it is a pub issue, good to know that it's a bad PC fit too.. thanks for that. Ghosts of Dawn // now recruiting.

Finn Colman Immortal Guides 27	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:44:00 - [201] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: ??? What? Seriously? I was only posting about them everyday for a week a couple weeks back! How quickly people forget things. These are still problems in the game. In addition, the scout dropsuits being better at assault than assaults are is sitll a problem and won't be fixed by the proposed Charlie fixes. Instead Scouts need to either loose their sidearm slot (still have the light weapons slot that can be used for either light weapons or sidearms) or reduce the number of equipment slots to ONLY one just like everyone else that is NOT a logi! In either case the appropriate amount of PG/CPU reduction for the loss of either slot needs to be done concurrently to ensure that brick tanking scouts doesn't become the norm after that. Why remove a slot from scouts? Because the original idea before cloaks was that Scouts should either gain an equipment slot and loose a sidearm slot to be able to do this OR they maintain the two weapon layout (one light with one sidearm) but do NOT gain an extra equipment slot. Right now, a scout can cloak and still use all the same weapons an assault can which makes the scout more deadly than an assault for gunplay. This blurs the lines between the Assault and the Scout roles. Additionally, because they have TWO equipment slots, this make them into a "mini-logi" and this blurs the roles between Logi and Scout. So by either removing the extra equipment slot or by removing the extra weapon slot (sidearm one) and the CPU/PG that goes with that slot removal, then you make the Scout have to choose it's role carefully. I personally would like to see the removal of the sidearm slot from the Scout suit much like the Logi has it removed. This makes it clear what the role of the Scout is to be in my mind. Whoa, watch that generalisation. I cannot fit a light weapon, good modules, and a cloak at the same time on my Min scout. If I fit a cloak, it means I'm down to two sidearms and the lowest CPU/PG modules I can fit. I'd like to think that that is an okay balance. Really though, I just don't think cloaks are useful to me, though I have seen many people using them better than I do.
Miokai Zahou The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 319	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:44:00 - [202] - Quote Awesome notes so far just wondering you can look into increasing the power grid for the python so it can fit better modules or actually fitting more than just one turret before running out of cpu/pwrd? Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
Eko Sol Strange Playings 569	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:52:00 - [203] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Remove the sidearm from the only proto suit i've been able to afford and that pretty much seals the deal for me to never return to Dust. I understand the idea of normalizing the slot layouts but I feel its the wrong way to go personally. The sidearm on the Amarr Logi is what made that suit fun. Having experienced having a sidearm and 3 equipment I could never go back to only having a single weapon. I honestly can't see a reason why you would run a logistics suit over a scout unless you want to run a minmatar medic suit. Amarr logi bridged the gap between minmatar medic and scout-logis. If you look at the numbers, something tells me the Amarr and Minmater logi suits probably greatly outnumber the caldari and gallente logis now. Its not hard to imagine why that might be, uplinks and rep tools are by far the most useful equipments available. I would love to see the number on logi sutis in general, in pubs there are enough WP farmers running rep tools to keep the numbers high but in general they are becoming rather underpowered in general. With scouts and heavies the way they are after 1.7 and 1.8 it seems that straight buffs to the medium suits make more sense to me. imho... adding a sidearm to caldari and doing a slot normalization that way makes much more sense. You have caldari and amarr as 'combat logi' suits with bonuses more oriented towards being near the frontline (uplinks and ammo) while minmatar and gallente logis would be more inclined to focus on their 'active equipment' using rep tools and scanners more in general and not being so inclined to need a sidearm. The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance. The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG. Get with the facts. Look I wouldn't be so frustrated if you agreed that you are screwing us for a "bigger picture". Sure why not. But you actually think you know better than us, the remaining players. The side arm is not what makes the A-Logi the A-logi. The bonus is. The Side Arm is a plus that we have gotten used to and have found our niche with. It is the weakest logi without it. You aren't making it better. HOw many people have to tell you this? How many hours do we all need to play as A-Logi to show this to you? Let us know so we can do it. At this point, I think you are making this change on whim and selfishness. I think you guys are doing this to sell more Aur by getting people to skill into new suits, etc. and thus using real world money to support you guys. I don't think this is authentically for the greater good of the game because the greater good. The logis are just different enough to warrant an actual decision. make them the same and everyone will be Min Logi in the future. EVERYONE. It's the fastest, decent CPU/PG, the best bonus, etc. Everyone will eventually be a Min logi OR not logi at all. Currently you see logis. Cal = slayer logi Gal = tanker logi Min = Versatile, support Amarr = AV-ish, spawn specialist Your statements don't explain it well. "It's different and I don't like different" isn't good enough to convince us. You do whatever you want, it's your game and I just play it. Don't make the change YET. Get a new discussion on it and push it to delta. Ease people into it. We don't want it or like it so doing it isn't better for us. Or we get a respec. It's different and not like the others so you are making it like the others. Thus it isn't what I spent my hours and AUR (boosters) to have. I should have all A-Logi SP refunded to include the A-Med SP but I'll deal if that doesn't happen. Post Distaste for A-Logi changes in Charlie here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2249908#post2249908
Eko Sol Strange Playings 569	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:57:00 - [204] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Eko Sol wrote: WE DON'T WANT MORE EQUIPMENT AND MODULE SLOTS. We want our god damn Side Arm. You are CPM. You are supposed to support the masses whether you agree or not. Fight for us and not your warped sense of appealing to CCP. You don't play. You know what. Look up my monthly numbers already. Look where I am at. I play 65% AV right now so the lack of kills is from redrats jumping out of drop ships I shoot down. I run A-Logi a lot and get WP for my fast uplinks thus high WP. I have tons of WP from completely legitimate playing. I got over 5k WP today from forging and swarming vehicles and some uplinks. 2nd place was Southpac at almost 5k. 3rd place was about 1300 wp. We had top kills as well. We had great KDR. We push to be the best players we can be no matter how terrible our blueberries are. You should not be arguing with a player that puts this much AUR, Time, and effort into this game. Maybe CCP Ratatti can post the hours I play. Yes, I currently have no life while trying to save money but that fully justifies why players like myself and others who put in the hours should be listened to and supported. All of the logis are fine. The speed nerf is a maybe for me. Fine, just don't change anything else. Start more conversation topics and do the changes in delta. DEFEND US IWS. Not one person has provided feedback and said "can't wait till my A-Logi loses it's side arm and gets modules and equipment". Not one. I stand by the fact that I should AT LEAST keep the current layout for AUR gear if I don't get a respec. I'll eat the money (I don't want to) if I get a respec. Voice your opinion but don't speak for the community. I'm sure there are some amarr logi's that are excited about becoming more logi and less assault. From what you described wouldn't having another equipment slot help you farm war points by being able to carry more uplinks? I don't know how I feel about the speed Nerf, my cal logi is already noticeably slower than my assault counterparts. For the cal logi role, I wouldn't want to be so slow I couldn't keep up with an advance and not be able to put down my hives at the right time/good spot. Look, you aren't an A-Logi so shut it. Have your opinion about the Cal logi all you want but there are already numerous threads, 2 people so far have changed their sig, etc. to indicate their dislike for the change. 1 person said he/she is excited but didn't even know the slot layout of a cal logi so I don't count his/her opinion if they don't even know the game well. The other said they would "adapt" but they aren't happy. Other that, all A-Logi's agree this change doesn't make sense and is unwarranted. No I don't want an extra equipment slot. I don't want an extra module slot. We sacrifice a module slot and equipment slot at a minimum for the side arm. This makes us AV possible. It makes it so we can protect an uplink when our Light Weapon runs out of ammo. We need this. How are we supposed to place an uplink and protect it? How? Exactly, we need the damn side arm. Some run ACR and ScP. Some run ScR and SMG. We need to be able to adapt and hurt both shield tankers and armor tankers in order to protect our uplinks. Having only one weapon makes us useless. Post Distaste for A-Logi changes in Charlie here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2249908#post2249908
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 155	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:00:00 - [205] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All, . . . stuff As a logi I would like to add my opinion to this conversation. Before I continue I apologise because it seems like I have more questions than feedback Not sure why the need for a speed reduction when even with an enhanced kincat on an ADV Min logi suit i can struggle to keep up ( some ) heavies. On this basis are you looking to reduce the speed on the heavies as well ? Isn't a logis role to support the battlefield ? How am i supposed to do that if I can't keep up with the battlefield ? I have spent SP into being able to run & fit kincats to allow me to be more mobile because the logi always seems to slow. Oh and before anyone says anything about stacking tank mods, I always look to get a balance between the best equipment I can fit then look at the best tank I can run. I like my logi to be mobile not a static WP pinata winnebago lumbering around the battlefield. Is the 'standardisation' of logi equipment slots a way of justifying why scouts have 2 equipment slots ? I do understand the need to balance slot layout between the races but I have never felt that the Amarr logi suffered unduly by having 1 less module slot & gaining the sidearm slot. A lot of people were sold on the idea of a 'combat' logi, especially me. Place the uplinks & defend the area. Or push & attack & move the front line up with uplinks, then defend them. i don't know, I feel as if I play a different game to the one CCP sees sometimes. Cloak bonus, meh I could care less. I can't do anything cloaked. I wouldn't loose sleep over some one running a crazy speed damped cloak shotgun logi, not when scouts can do that much better already. WP for injectors, brilliant & about time. I love the scaling with SP investment & cost. I also hope you look at the option of choosing whether to be revived once a player is downed also. Maybe to reduce the spam a bit more is too reduce the initial WP reward for a rez & have bonus WP reward if the rez'd player stays alive for a period of time. I am pretty sure this was suggested a long time ago. Like other people have said I believe the reason there are more logi s than assualt players is for a number of reasons. Firstly assaults are generally out done by every other suit class. Scouts have more going for them than assualts, speed, regen, ewar, cloak not to mention the smaller hitbox &, 2 yes two equipment slots. Then there are the heavies, raw HP, resists & the heavy combat rifle ( sorry ) heavy machine gun. Not forgetting the Min & Cal that can move as fast as an assault ( with mods of course ). Next we have the logi s who roam the battle field repping, reviving, getting spawn pads down & scanning AS well as being able to kill stuff. Your current proposal to increase the HP just further adds to a battlefield that is probably 50%+ obsessed with trying to cram as much HP onto a suit as possible. Make use of the other modules in game like shield rechargers / energizers & ferroscale / reactive plates. Get people using these to galvanise different playstyles. Seems to me that the assault has no versatility or role & is outclassed by the other suits performing there given roles on the battlefield. Amarr assault seems to be the only suit that can hold its hand up & says it can do well. Please consider the assault changes first & then go back & look at logi, if you truly believe that they are an issue. My personal belief is that anyone who was previously an assault went to scout because they are better at the assault role. Not sure about the codebreaker to high slots as I've only just started using the min scout ( hard to fit at ADV ) I will leave that to people who have a better understanding than me. The rest looks ok, however it is getting late so I may have missed something. Hope the above makes some sort of sense, time for sleep & I will have another look tomorrow. Keep up the good work. GÇ£Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.GÇ¥ GÇò Frank Zappa
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 967	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:05:00 - [206] - Quote If you are going to increase the WP for OBs can you please remove EVE OBs from PC. Currently they are already having way to big an impact especially since they can be dropped at the start of battle and then every three minutes after that. The eve integration has never been properly realized and it already creates to big a difference. By increasing the WP cost for warbarge OBs EVE OBs will become even more ridiculously over powered. Overlord of Broman
Eko Sol Strange Playings 569	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:07:00 - [207] - Quote Here is my solution for assaults: 1) 10% base increase to all HP for all assaults 2) 10% increase to all assault speed 3) 15% decrease in stamina regen 4) 10% reduction to shield regen delay 5) all assaults get a passive 1hp/s rep or better depending on race 6) 10% reduction per point invested to speed penalties from armor plates There, you officially made an assault viable. It is not as powerful as a heavy nor can tank like one but darn close. It can close the distance for CQC. Can tank a bit better at lower tiers until proto. Shouldn't be running across a field thus lower stamina. Shield regen delay should be shorter so it can get cover and come back out to the fight. Passive reps make sense. If you were going to war in the New Eden universe and the Commander told you that you were on the front line don't you want some self healing? I would suspect so. Reduce speed penalties to armor to keep them viable for tanking and to reward players that go proto. Post Distaste for A-Logi changes in Charlie here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2249908#post2249908
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3652	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:09:00 - [208] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Voice your opinion but don't speak for the community. I'm sure there are some amarr logi's that are excited about becoming more logi and less assault. From what you described wouldn't having another equipment slot help you farm war points by being able to carry more uplinks? I don't know how I feel about the speed Nerf, my cal logi is already noticeably slower than my assault counterparts. For the cal logi role, I wouldn't want to be so slow I couldn't keep up with an advance and not be able to put down my hives at the right time/good spot. I challenge you to find a single decent player who has been running the Amarr logi for more than a month that loves this change. Some might tolerate it, but NOBODY is going to be excited about it. NO ONE. I maxed out my SMG, I paid real life freaking money for the Templar logi, I've been using the Amarr logi as my primary suit for a year. This change is incredibly short sighted and will drive a lot of us not only from the suit, but from the game. I will never use my log suit again. If I do decide to ever play, which I doubt, I will use a gal scout as my support suit. It's faster, has a sidearm, is invisible, and has 2 equipment slots. I thought you had learned from prior mistakes Rattati. I was wrong. Taking a good suit and making it bad is not how we make another suit better!. You do that by actually making the other suit better! You talk about crowd sourcing? Where was the clamor for removing the sidearm? Where are the grateful players in this thread? There was and are none because nobody wants this. Outliers? What about the LP store Amarr commando with 3 weapons? Where's the clamor for the grenade commando? I guess you weren't around but there were plenty of suggestions about grenadier suits. Even if there wasn't, the fact that people aren't specifically asking for new variants doesnt mean anyone wants LESS variants than we have now. Quick poll... Who wants fewer things in Dust? Who wants less variety? Nobody? Ok good, glad we got that straight. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 907	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:11:00 - [209] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: If you are going to increase the WP for OBs can you please remove EVE OBs from PC. Currently they are already having way to big an impact especially since they can be dropped at the start of battle and then every three minutes after that. The eve integration has never been properly realized and it already creates to big a difference. By increasing the WP cost for warbarge OBs EVE OBs will become even more ridiculously over powered. No, IMO it should be the other way around. Dust/Eve transfers
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15836	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:11:00 - [210] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: WE DON'T WANT MORE EQUIPMENT AND MODULE SLOTS. We want our god damn Side Arm. You are CPM. You are supposed to support the masses whether you agree or not. Fight for us and not your warped sense of appealing to CCP. You don't play. You know what. Look up my monthly numbers already. Look where I am at. I play 65% AV right now so the lack of kills is from redrats jumping out of drop ships I shoot down. I run A-Logi a lot and get WP for my fast uplinks thus high WP. I have tons of WP from completely legitimate playing. I got over 5k WP today from forging and swarming vehicles and some uplinks. 2nd place was Southpac at almost 5k. 3rd place was about 1300 wp. We had top kills as well. We had great KDR. We push to be the best players we can be no matter how terrible our blueberries are. You should not be arguing with a player that puts this much AUR, Time, and effort into this game. Maybe CCP Ratatti can post the hours I play. Yes, I currently have no life while trying to save money but that fully justifies why players like myself and others who put in the hours should be listened to and supported. All of the logis are fine. The speed nerf is a maybe for me. Fine, just don't change anything else. Start more conversation topics and do the changes in delta. DEFEND US IWS. Not one person has provided feedback and said "can't wait till my A-Logi loses it's side arm and gets modules and equipment". Not one. I stand by the fact that I should AT LEAST keep the current layout for AUR gear if I don't get a respec. I'll eat the money (I don't want to) if I get a respec. We could play rewind theater and show how much people cried about being short changed an equipment slot for a side arm and how stupidly odd it was for Amarrs to getting side arms as it made no sense back then. These complaints made at the apex of the slayer logi mind you. I mean you're 2 slots down from everyone else. Those modules slots are the most excessively heaviest stat in the game; side arm is one of the weakest slot weights as well because the overall dps associated with that slot is the lowest of the three, and the fact the mere presence of the other slot further degrades that weight because you only got two hands. Also Logi is not the only viable AV class there, all classes are viable AV in their own ways. Many don't need to resort to using equipment slots or av weapons and all classes are nearly equally capable of killing every vehicle in the game right now. The A-Logi with a sidearm was a mistake that shouldn't have been made in the first place. Similar to how shoving HAVs into this game without a proper role other than to blow **** up was a mistake that should not have happened in the first place. Also ever heard of unpopular changes? This is one of them. The combined fact that so many players are adamant about the side arm speaks volumes as to why its wrong and needs to be changed. I am shocked not more players are not seeking to try to change CCP Rattati's mind over the lackluster bonus that expires after you die. So if you're so much of an expert. Under the altered amarr logi slot layout I want you to exactly tell me what would make it inferior to all the other races logistics; stat per stat. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15836	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:13:00 - [211] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Outliers? What about the LP store Amarr commando with 3 weapons? Wait which Commando? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 36	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:14:00 - [212] - Quote When are we going to get to see a spreadsheet with all this data. I'm really interested in the new redesigned approach on the Assualt. The Blazing Intellect Machine
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3656	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:17:00 - [213] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Eko Sol wrote: WE DON'T WANT MORE EQUIPMENT AND MODULE SLOTS. We want our god damn Side Arm. You are CPM. You are supposed to support the masses whether you agree or not. Fight for us and not your warped sense of appealing to CCP. You don't play. You know what. Look up my monthly numbers already. Look where I am at. I play 65% AV right now so the lack of kills is from redrats jumping out of drop ships I shoot down. I run A-Logi a lot and get WP for my fast uplinks thus high WP. I have tons of WP from completely legitimate playing. I got over 5k WP today from forging and swarming vehicles and some uplinks. 2nd place was Southpac at almost 5k. 3rd place was about 1300 wp. We had top kills as well. We had great KDR. We push to be the best players we can be no matter how terrible our blueberries are. You should not be arguing with a player that puts this much AUR, Time, and effort into this game. Maybe CCP Ratatti can post the hours I play. Yes, I currently have no life while trying to save money but that fully justifies why players like myself and others who put in the hours should be listened to and supported. All of the logis are fine. The speed nerf is a maybe for me. Fine, just don't change anything else. Start more conversation topics and do the changes in delta. DEFEND US IWS. Not one person has provided feedback and said "can't wait till my A-Logi loses it's side arm and gets modules and equipment". Not one. I stand by the fact that I should AT LEAST keep the current layout for AUR gear if I don't get a respec. I'll eat the money (I don't want to) if I get a respec. We could play rewind theater and show how much people cried about being short changed an equipment slot for a side arm and how stupidly odd it was for Amarrs to getting side arms as it made no sense back then. These complaints made at the apex of the slayer logi mind you. I mean you're 2 slots down from everyone else. Those modules slots are the most excessively heaviest stat in the game; side arm is one of the weakest slot weights as well because the overall dps associated with that slot is the lowest of the three, and the fact the mere presence of the other slot further degrades that weight because you only got two hands. Also Logi is not the only viable AV class there, all classes are viable AV in their own ways. Many don't need to resort to using equipment slots or av weapons and all classes are nearly equally capable of killing every vehicle in the game right now. The A-Logi with a sidearm was a mistake that shouldn't have been made in the first place. Similar to how shoving HAVs into this game without a proper role other than to blow **** up was a mistake that should not have happened in the first place. Also ever heard of unpopular changes? This is one of them. The combined fact that so many players are adamant about the side arm speaks volumes as to why its wrong and needs to be changed. I am shocked not more players are not seeking to try to change CCP Rattati's mind over the lackluster bonus that expires after you die. So if you're so much of an expert. Under the altered amarr logi slot layout I want you to exactly tell me what would make it inferior to all the other races logistics; stat per stat. IWS, you have a selective memory. The problem wasn't that nobody wanted the sidearm, the problem was the we lost TWO slots for it, not one. Get your facts straight. And we complain about the bonus all the freaking time! Just because you type it doesn't make it true or support your argument in a meaningful way. Stat per stat? It's slower and no longer has a sidearm. It's now worse. It also has less PG, WTF am I going to put in the new slots with no PG? Sidearms aren't PG Intensive, they fit just fine. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14555	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:18:00 - [214] - Quote Thank you for FINALLY confirming that pilot stacking is a bug. Not that it will get changed in forever, but it's nice to see a blue say. The only thing I'm curious about is will you be refunding Amarr Logi Sidearm SP? These players have no need for that SP if you're going to steal it from them, and goes directly against the "your decisions matter" mentality, even though honestly, they've never mattered much lol. Perhaps you should consider an optional respec sometime soon, since DUST isn't going to be growing all the much, and respec is implied when moving to Legion anyways. The Future
Maximus Stryker Who Are Those Guys 1009	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:20:00 - [215] - Quote Quote: Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Is this referring to when the pilot of an ADS and a gunner of an ADS both have the ADS skills leveled up and the bonuses stack...assuming this is what you mean I do not think it needs tampering, Gunning in an ADS is finally efficient, please don't nerf it or no one will want to be a gunner anoymore... Best Idea For Legion
medomai grey WarRavens Final Resolution. 847	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:20:00 - [216] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * Installation buff, with a range and AI review, reduction of granted WP for destruction. I really like the idea of buffing turret instillation AI so that turret instillations are more aggressive in finding targets. However, in regards to increasing turret range and/or survivability, you'll have to do more work. Currently, there are many maps where red-line turret instillations can fire on objectives in the middle of the map. This forces vehicle users to deal with redline turrets instillations. This is especially annoying for ADS because they have to fly deep into the redline to deal with these red line turret instillations but lack the fire power to quickly destroy them; resulting in multiple trips into enemy red line. So if you are going to increase the range and/or survivability of turret instillations, please move all red line turret instillations further back into their perspective redlines so that all objectives are out of their range. CCP Rattati wrote: * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. Please don't reduce logistic suit speed further, there are heavies that can run faster than my logistic. Heavies! Honestly, nothing should get a bonus to fitting cloaks; not even scouts. The high CPU/PG cost of cloaks serves as a balancing factor by making it difficult to fit a suit to be very effective at anything else. Also, why isn't a firing delay after de-cloaking on the list? How many hotfixes will this be pushed back? CCP Rattati wrote: * OB WP doubled OBs should not be awarded to the team that's winning. That just creates a snowball effect where the team that's winning just keeps winning. I propose giving orbitals to the squad with the highest amount of WP that didn't receive an orbital before, when the enemy team accumulates a certain amount of WP. When all squads have received an OB on a team, all squads in that team become eligible to receive an OB again. No WP should be awarded from any kills or destruction of vehicles and equipment from orbitals. This will change OBs from a mechanic that keeps the winning team winning into one that helps the losing team stay in the fight. Medium frame EHP is not medium
P14GU3 The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 798	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:21:00 - [217] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Remove the sidearm from the only proto suit i've been able to afford and that pretty much seals the deal for me to never return to Dust. I understand the idea of normalizing the slot layouts but I feel its the wrong way to go personally. The sidearm on the Amarr Logi is what made that suit fun. Having experienced having a sidearm and 3 equipment I could never go back to only having a single weapon. I honestly can't see a reason why you would run a logistics suit over a scout unless you want to run a minmatar medic suit. Amarr logi bridged the gap between minmatar medic and scout-logis. If you look at the numbers, something tells me the Amarr and Minmater logi suits probably greatly outnumber the caldari and gallente logis now. Its not hard to imagine why that might be, uplinks and rep tools are by far the most useful equipments available. I would love to see the number on logi sutis in general, in pubs there are enough WP farmers running rep tools to keep the numbers high but in general they are becoming rather underpowered in general. With scouts and heavies the way they are after 1.7 and 1.8 it seems that straight buffs to the medium suits make more sense to me. imho... adding a sidearm to caldari and doing a slot normalization that way makes much more sense. You have caldari and amarr as 'combat logi' suits with bonuses more oriented towards being near the frontline (uplinks and ammo) while minmatar and gallente logis would be more inclined to focus on their 'active equipment' using rep tools and scanners more in general and not being so inclined to need a sidearm. The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance. The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. So why not give ALL the logis a side-arm. Your arguement is, we have to because its the only one with a sidearm.. so why do you have to take it away? Why not give the other logis a sidearm if its such a huge dilema. The only reason the sidearm was taken away was to differentiate from assault. But the suits are soo much different than they were then. You can differentiate them through the bonuses. I only play dust514ums now. It was always more fun than the actual game anyways.
BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 36	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:22:00 - [218] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Voice your opinion but don't speak for the community. I'm sure there are some amarr logi's that are excited about becoming more logi and less assault. From what you described wouldn't having another equipment slot help you farm war points by being able to carry more uplinks? I don't know how I feel about the speed Nerf, my cal logi is already noticeably slower than my assault counterparts. For the cal logi role, I wouldn't want to be so slow I couldn't keep up with an advance and not be able to put down my hives at the right time/good spot. I challenge you to find a single decent player who has been running the Amarr logi for more than a month that loves this change. Some might tolerate it, but NOBODY is going to be excited about it. NO ONE. I maxed out my SMG, I paid real life freaking money for the Templar logi, I've been using the Amarr logi as my primary suit for a year. I have 6000 lifetime kills in 16 months. I'm by nobody's definition a slayer logi. This change is incredibly short sighted and will drive a lot of us not only from the suit, but from the game. I will never use my log suit again. If I do decide to ever play, which I doubt, I will use a gal scout as my support suit. It's faster, has a sidearm, is invisible, and has 2 equipment slots. I thought you had learned from prior mistakes Rattati. I was wrong. Taking a good suit and making it bad is not how we make another suit better!. You do that by actually making the other suit better! You talk about crowd sourcing? Where was the clamor for removing the sidearm? Where are the grateful players in this thread? There was and are none because nobody wants this. Outliers? What about the LP store Amarr commando with 3 weapons? Where's the clamor for the grenade commando? I guess you weren't around but there were plenty of suggestions about grenadier suits. Even if there wasn't, the fact that people aren't specifically asking for new variants doesnt mean anyone wants FEWER variants than we have now. Quick poll... Who wants fewer things in Dust? Who wants less variety? Nobody? Ok good, glad we got that straight. What is the point of a sidearm anyway for an A-logi. It's an added feature that doesn't make sense. I hardly even use the sidearm. I think getting a extra equipment slot is way better than a sidearm. A logi's job is for support. This balanced approach does make sense. The Blazing Intellect Machine
Benjamin Ciscko General Tso's Alliance 2453	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:24:00 - [219] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Outliers? What about the LP store Amarr commando with 3 weapons? Wait which Commando? Imperial Amarr Commando AK.0 go to LP store hit triangle on that name go to stats 2 Light weapons 1 Sidearm Disclaimer I do not have this commando and is therefore am unaware whether or not someone miss typed this stat or whether it actually gives you three weapons. Tanker/Logi 0 The number of 7ucks given
iKILLu osborne Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 51	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:25:00 - [220] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: hp/s damnit lmfao ccp rattati i like you even more now, keep up the good work here is a joke, so an amarr scout walks in lol

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15836	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:25:00 - [221] - Quote Benjamin Ciscko wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Outliers? What about the LP store Amarr commando with 3 weapons? Wait which Commando? Imperial Amarr Commando AK.0 go to LP store hit triangle on that name go to stats 2 Light weapons 1 Sidearm Disclaimer I do not have this commando and therefore I am unaware whether or not someone miss typed this stat or whether it actually gives you three weapons. stats are usually reflective and can't be typo'ed. I dont have the LP or isk to get one right now though... CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3657	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:26:00 - [222] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Outliers? What about the LP store Amarr commando with 3 weapons? Wait which Commando? Facepalm. Wow, I could not have possibly make my argument any better than you just did for me. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3475	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:29:00 - [223] - Quote Well looking on the other hand that fixing the skill stacking on ADS requires a client update trough PSN allready means that this is "very unlikely" to happend. Cause client side updates needs to be verified by sony and that costs money. And CCP branded this game as "dead" with their "dust514 keynote" at the fanfest which means that they wont spend a single cent to add/fix something. But go on CCP and IWS prove me wrong and pull out a client update out of your hats. I dare you, i double dare you.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15836	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:31:00 - [224] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Outliers? What about the LP store Amarr commando with 3 weapons? Wait which Commando? Facepalm. Wow, I could not have possibly made my argument any better than you just did for me. That I am not a walking encyclopedia that has all 15,000 items in dust 514 remembered? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 619	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:32:00 - [225] - Quote So, you are basically buffing 2 logis, and slightly nerfing all of them? Is the Amarr logi now going to be slower than a Min Commado? The Min Logi already is the second lowest HP suit in the game, and you are going to make it even slower? Por que? The low HP suits have at least been marginally faster than the rest. It's hard enough to outrun an HMG as a Min Logi, and now I'm going to be slower, while everyone else is faster AND has higher eHP? I'm so confused by this logic.... Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15836	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:34:00 - [226] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Well looking on the other hand that fixing the skill stacking on ADS requires a client update trough PSN allready means that this is "very unlikely" to happend. Cause client side updates needs to be verified by sony and that costs money. And CCP branded this game as "dead" with their "dust514 keynote" at the fanfest which means that they wont spend a single cent to add/fix something. But go on CCP and IWS prove me wrong and pull out a client update out of your hats. I dare you, i double dare you. As CCP Ratatti explained publically before a client update is not out of the question of the realm of possibility; it is just something he rather do later than now. CCP has told the CPM the same deal as well there is no issue with getting a "1.9" but the major problem remains is the simple fact there is no 1.9 being planned right now. The closest thing we have is likely the shopping list CCP Ratatti keeps adding to with every hotfix when he runs into something he cant do a server side update to fix. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
P14GU3 The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 799	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:35:00 - [227] - Quote Booby Tuesdays wrote: So, you are basically buffing 2 logis, and slightly nerfing all of them? Is the Amarr logi now going to be slower than a Min Commado? The Min Logi already is the second lowest HP suit in the game, and you are going to make it even slower? Por que? The low HP suits have at least been marginally faster than the rest. It's hard enough to outrun an HMG as a Min Logi, and now I'm going to be slower, while everyone else is faster AND has higher eHP? I'm so confused by this logic.... The logic seems to be assaults are garbage and people use logis more, so we have to make logis worse than assaults are. 12 pages of this and I havent seen any other reason... I only play dust514ums now. It was always more fun than the actual game anyways.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3658	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:36:00 - [228] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Outliers? What about the LP store Amarr commando with 3 weapons? Wait which Commando? Facepalm. Wow, I could not have possibly made my argument any better than you just did for me. That I am not a walking encyclopedia that has all 15,000 items in dust 514 remembered? It's a known outlier, and has been mentioned several times in this forum section. I obviously don't expect you to know all the items, but this is not a random item, it's a dropsuit, and if you are going to make an authoritative argument about a fundamental change to dropsuits, you should have the facts to back it up, that's all. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
deezy dabest Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers 742	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:37:00 - [229] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. The amarr should not lose its sidearm. The amarr logi bonus most requires you to stay in your logi for a true benefit for the team and gives up an equipment slot to be viable in such a way. Also another slot on the Amarr logi only increases uplink spam which is not needed. Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 4124	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:37:00 - [230] - Quote I don't really mind having seven slots on my Amarr Logi, though I would like a fourth equipment. But if the cost of that (of either of those) is my sidearm, I don't want it. My sidearm is only valuable in niche situations, and offers a point of difference from the other logis. CCP Rattati ily! AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!

WhyAre YouLooking Red Star. EoN. 8	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:37:00 - [231] - Quote So does this mean we can has another respect in the drops it command :D [X] Dedicated Tac AR User [X] Loving Rep tool [X] Pure Gallente
Eko Sol Strange Playings 573	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:38:00 - [232] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Eko Sol wrote: WE DON'T WANT MORE EQUIPMENT AND MODULE SLOTS. We want our god damn Side Arm. You are CPM. You are supposed to support the masses whether you agree or not. Fight for us and not your warped sense of appealing to CCP. You don't play. You know what. Look up my monthly numbers already. Look where I am at. I play 65% AV right now so the lack of kills is from redrats jumping out of drop ships I shoot down. I run A-Logi a lot and get WP for my fast uplinks thus high WP. I have tons of WP from completely legitimate playing. I got over 5k WP today from forging and swarming vehicles and some uplinks. 2nd place was Southpac at almost 5k. 3rd place was about 1300 wp. We had top kills as well. We had great KDR. We push to be the best players we can be no matter how terrible our blueberries are. You should not be arguing with a player that puts this much AUR, Time, and effort into this game. Maybe CCP Ratatti can post the hours I play. Yes, I currently have no life while trying to save money but that fully justifies why players like myself and others who put in the hours should be listened to and supported. All of the logis are fine. The speed nerf is a maybe for me. Fine, just don't change anything else. Start more conversation topics and do the changes in delta. DEFEND US IWS. Not one person has provided feedback and said "can't wait till my A-Logi loses it's side arm and gets modules and equipment". Not one. I stand by the fact that I should AT LEAST keep the current layout for AUR gear if I don't get a respec. I'll eat the money (I don't want to) if I get a respec. We could play rewind theater and show how much people cried about being short changed an equipment slot for a side arm and how stupidly odd it was for Amarrs to getting side arms as it made no sense back then. These complaints made at the apex of the slayer logi mind you. I mean you're 2 slots down from everyone else. Those modules slots are the most excessively heaviest stat in the game; side arm is one of the weakest slot weights as well because the overall dps associated with that slot is the lowest of the three, and the fact the mere presence of the other slot further degrades that weight because you only got two hands. Also Logi is not the only viable AV class there, all classes are viable AV in their own ways. Many don't need to resort to using equipment slots or av weapons and all classes are nearly equally capable of killing every vehicle in the game right now. The A-Logi with a sidearm was a mistake that shouldn't have been made in the first place. Similar to how shoving HAVs into this game without a proper role other than to blow **** up was a mistake that should not have happened in the first place. Also ever heard of unpopular changes? This is one of them. The combined fact that so many players are adamant about the side arm speaks volumes as to why its wrong and needs to be changed. I am shocked not more players are not seeking to try to change CCP Rattati's mind over the lackluster bonus that expires after you die. So if you're so much of an expert. Under the altered amarr logi slot layout I want you to exactly tell me what would make it inferior to all the other races logistics; stat per stat. There is no convincing you. You don't play the game and definitely don't play often. You believe that people that enjoy the very specialized AND the most challenging suit to play indicates it should be changed to be more like the others.t. Sure, next time you buy a 6 cylinder car I hope the manufacturers come to you, after you spent money, and change it to a 4 cylinder b/c you never need the Horse Power and acceleration it offered in your area because it didn't make sense from the start. All I can say is that part of the A-Logi's PC or competitive role is to get an uplink somewhere whether it is with drop ship or LAV and protect that uplink. Cal scouts ALWAYS see us. If I run ScR then I'm good right? Wrong, b/c a gal scout will show up and then I'm beaten. I need my side arm when I play this way to counter shields or armor to protect my uplink. It's all I have. The bonus is useless without the side arm. Competitive people either play ACR/ScP or ScR/SMG. Personally, you are wrong about the Side Arm not making sense in liu of two extra slots (1eq 1mod). It makes perfect sense and is a fair trade off. Scouts and Heavies make up the majority of the battlefield. If these changes happen you will either see only Min Logis OR no logis. It will hurt logis. It will hurt assaults as well b/c they won't be in a better place. In fact, I would argue you would see even more scout/heavy combos then there are now. I did have my complaint about the uplinks being gone after death. In fact, I started numerous threads in bugs including one when I first skilled into it. I've explained in General and Bugs and Features problems and solutions for the A-logi and didn't see enough participation. In some cases the uplink bonus doesn't even apply at all right now. I still put up with it. I reported it to bugs. I've gotten no response except from fellow players. At the end of the day, i'm not so much saying DON'T DO IT as much as I am saying "Discuss it MORE with the community and push this change to Hotfix Delta". Do assaults and then do logi's in delta. Isn't rocket science. And I hate to break it to you. I killed myself in my career to be good at what I do. This includes database programming. I know how they work and how data is collected and I can assure you mining data is not only misleading but takes a serious amount of years of experience to interpret and present it well. 10 years wouldn't cut it. Post Distaste for A-Logi changes in Charlie here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2249908#post2249908
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15836	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:41:00 - [233] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: So, you are basically buffing 2 logis, and slightly nerfing all of them? Is the Amarr logi now going to be slower than a Min Commado? The Min Logi already is the second lowest HP suit in the game, and you are going to make it even slower? Por que? The low HP suits have at least been marginally faster than the rest. It's hard enough to outrun an HMG as a Min Logi, and now I'm going to be slower, while everyone else is faster AND has higher eHP? I'm so confused by this logic.... The logic seems to be assaults are garbage and people use logis more, so we have to make logis worse than assaults are. 12 pages of this and I havent seen any other reason... I dont think we need to make logis just plain out worse than assaults; just not as desired for attack in comparison to assaults. Assaults should be superior in pressing the enemy Logis should be superior in pressing their allies forward. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Cheydinhal Guard Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 124	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:42:00 - [234] - Quote I agree with Kagehoshi. I reeeally don't think it's a good idea for the amarr scout to get the precision bonus. As was stated, many people skilled into the CalScout for the precision bonus. As a Calscout, you have to sacrifice some tank to fit presision enhancers, which is fair. The GalScout also has to sacrifice tank for damps. The Amarr scout on the other hand would be able to fit two complex precision enhancers without any sacrifice. That leaves its low slots open for many options. Many smart players would take advantage of this and fill them up with damps. We would have a scout is almost as unscannable as the GalScout that can also see scan everything on the battlefield. I can practically already see the forum QQ now. I also don't see the point in a "slight" speed nerf for all logis. We are already slow enough. You filthy amarr, with your golden guns and your sparkling merc quarters....Curse you.. GalLogi to the end
Mauren NOON The Exemplars Top Men. 368	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:43:00 - [235] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: side arm shouldn't change either well we could go the stupid way and make logis sidearms only if you like them that much... :P Overall we need to start stepping back and start looking at the larger picture of things of teaching players proper roles for every class and the range of roles a class can fulfill; having an assault like attribute on a logistics suit is as I said before muddling. This is also what we call an extreme outlier; a case where the faction option in question is so far out of its league it might as well be another class. This is where it starts to become more difficult to balance because you now need to justify the weight of having said option. A side arm in the future can be exceptionally heavy stat and even worse so an endeared stat when it does come time to finally remove outliers like this. The removal should bring the alogi back home into the house of the logi instead of him living in the pool house. Also I don't know why you guys are a bit overly too focused on this; you have an opportunity to make the amarr logi something better in other areas where it was weak before with CCP Ratatti being part of the conversation. WE DON'T WANT MORE EQUIPMENT AND MODULE SLOTS. We want our god damn Side Arm. You are CPM. You are supposed to support the masses whether you agree or not. Fight for us and not your warped sense of appealing to CCP. You don't play. You know what. Look up my monthly numbers already. Look where I am at. I play 65% AV right now so the lack of kills is from redrats jumping out of drop ships I shoot down. I run A-Logi a lot and get WP for my fast uplinks thus high WP. I have tons of WP from completely legitimate playing. I got over 5k WP today from forging and swarming vehicles and some uplinks. 2nd place was Southpac at almost 5k. 3rd place was about 1300 wp. We had top kills as well. We had great KDR. We push to be the best players we can be no matter how terrible our blueberries are. You should not be arguing with a player that puts this much AUR, Time, and effort into this game. Maybe CCP Ratatti can post the hours I play. Yes, I currently have no life while trying to save money but that fully justifies why players like myself and others who put in the hours should be listened to and supported. All of the logis are fine. The speed nerf is a maybe for me. Fine, just don't change anything else. Start more conversation topics and do the changes in delta. DEFEND US IWS. Not one person has provided feedback and said "can't wait till my A-Logi loses it's side arm and gets modules and equipment". Not one. I stand by the fact that I should AT LEAST keep the current layout for AUR gear if I don't get a respec. I'll eat the money (I don't want to) if I get a respec. You get a like :) Scr and commando enthusiast. A commando is not just a suit, but a way of life... "The only thing to fear is fear itself"
P14GU3 The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 799	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:44:00 - [236] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: So, you are basically buffing 2 logis, and slightly nerfing all of them? Is the Amarr logi now going to be slower than a Min Commado? The Min Logi already is the second lowest HP suit in the game, and you are going to make it even slower? Por que? The low HP suits have at least been marginally faster than the rest. It's hard enough to outrun an HMG as a Min Logi, and now I'm going to be slower, while everyone else is faster AND has higher eHP? I'm so confused by this logic.... The logic seems to be assaults are garbage and people use logis more, so we have to make logis worse than assaults are. 12 pages of this and I havent seen any other reason... I dont think we need to make logis just plain out worse than assaults; just not as desired for attack in comparison to assaults. Assaults should be superior in pressing the enemy Logis should be superior in pressing their allies forward. And a PG/CPU buff isnt going to do it. As long as a Scrambler is the same on a logi as it is on an assault, nothing will change. The assaults need a real bonus, a reason to be used. As long as logis have the same damage output and more equipment, they will be the go to medium frame. The issue is not logis, its assaults. I only play dust514ums now. It was always more fun than the actual game anyways.
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1509	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:46:00 - [237] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Assaults need a more useful bonus. It doesn't matter if they get a small HP change, all that does is blur the difference between Assault and Commando further. This is true. The Amarr assault and Minmatar assault are the only two with even moderately useful. The assault bonuses really need a total change to give these suits a well defined role on the battlefield. Fun > Realism
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 413	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:49:00 - [238] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Remove the sidearm from the only proto suit i've been able to afford and that pretty much seals the deal for me to never return to Dust. I understand the idea of normalizing the slot layouts but I feel its the wrong way to go personally. The sidearm on the Amarr Logi is what made that suit fun. Having experienced having a sidearm and 3 equipment I could never go back to only having a single weapon. I honestly can't see a reason why you would run a logistics suit over a scout unless you want to run a minmatar medic suit. Amarr logi bridged the gap between minmatar medic and scout-logis. If you look at the numbers, something tells me the Amarr and Minmater logi suits probably greatly outnumber the caldari and gallente logis now. Its not hard to imagine why that might be, uplinks and rep tools are by far the most useful equipments available. I would love to see the number on logi suits in general, in pubs there are enough WP farmers running rep tools to keep the numbers high but they are becoming rather underpowered in general. With scouts and heavies the way they are after 1.7 and 1.8 it seems that straight buffs to the medium suits make more sense to me. imho... adding a sidearm to caldari and doing a slot normalization that way makes much more sense. You have caldari and amarr as 'combat logi' suits with bonuses more oriented towards being near the frontline (uplinks and ammo) while minmatar and gallente logis would be more inclined to focus on their 'active equipment' using rep tools and scanners more in general and not being so inclined to need a sidearm. the last paragraph here is such an awesome idea... please rattati do this!
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3479	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:49:00 - [239] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Well looking on the other hand that fixing the skill stacking on ADS requires a client update trough PSN allready means that this is "very unlikely" to happend. Cause client side updates needs to be verified by sony and that costs money. And CCP branded this game as "dead" with their "dust514 keynote" at the fanfest which means that they wont spend a single cent to add/fix something. But go on CCP and IWS prove me wrong and pull out a client update out of your hats. I dare you, i double dare you. As CCP Ratatti explained publically before a client update is not out of the question of the realm of possibility; it is just something he rather do later than now. CCP has told the CPM the same deal as well there is no issue with getting a "1.9" but the major problem remains is the simple fact there is no 1.9 being planned right now. The closest thing we have is likely the shopping list CCP Ratatti keeps adding to with every hotfix when he runs into something he cant do a server side update to fix. 1.9 not planned basically means that dropship skill stacking wont be adressed anytime soon which im glad about cause i like to use dropships with gunners. And we actually get rewarded for doing teamwork unlike the solo python scrubs that just farm kills. Im fully aware that you dont want to admit that my apocalyptic claim is right simply cause CCP doesnt want to demotivate the community. Or simple put: "GUYS DONT WORRY WE GOT THIS! NOW GO BUY AUR!"
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1510	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:50:00 - [240] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: So, you are basically buffing 2 logis, and slightly nerfing all of them? Is the Amarr logi now going to be slower than a Min Commado? The Min Logi already is the second lowest HP suit in the game, and you are going to make it even slower? Por que? The low HP suits have at least been marginally faster than the rest. It's hard enough to outrun an HMG as a Min Logi, and now I'm going to be slower, while everyone else is faster AND has higher eHP? I'm so confused by this logic.... The logic seems to be assaults are garbage and people use logis more, so we have to make logis worse than assaults are. 12 pages of this and I havent seen any other reason... I dont think we need to make logis just plain out worse than assaults; just not as desired for attack in comparison to assaults. Assaults should be superior in pressing the enemy Logis should be superior in pressing their allies forward. And a PG/CPU buff isnt going to do it. As long as a Scrambler is the same on a logi as it is on an assault, nothing will change. The assaults need a real bonus, a reason to be used. As long as logis have the same damage output and more equipment, they will be the go to medium frame. The issue is not logis, its assaults. I totally disagree with this. The issue isn't that logis are better at kiling than assaults. It is that scouts are better logis and killers than either of the med. frames. The bonuese put into place need to help assaults compete with scouts from a killing point of view and logis be more competetive from a support point of view. Fun > Realism

THUNDERGROOVE Fatal Absolution 996	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:55:00 - [241] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. Meh. I got the Amarr logi around 1.3 when you needed a sidearm to be able to kill any of the 1000 HP Caldari logis. Without it, and/or it's uplink bonus it's crap when compared to Gallente. Please exercise caution while changing this, I hardly use the suit as it is unless there are no links on the field or we have no repair logis in our squad. The Amarr scout bonus is like the old Amarr sentinel bonus. No one needed 25% reduction to overheat damage on a heavy;_;
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 4124	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:56:00 - [242] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Removing the A Logis sidearm?? Please no! Who is asking for this? This was the best part of this suit and the only reason I skilled it. What is it taking away from? Not the Amarr Assault. Everyone I've read has agreed forever that that except for the slot issue (which was fixed right?) the Amarr Assault was the only Assault that was working as intended (good bonus anyway). Look, I have all 4 Logis, and play all but the Cal, that sidearm is the only reason to play that suit! I'll run a min for the speed and slot layout, or a Gal for the Tank, slot layout and bonus every time over the Amarr Logi, if not for that sidearm. And why would you slow us down?? We already have Massive stamina disadvantages, our speed is required to keep us in support of our close surroundings. Look, buff assaults please, they need it, but not at the expense of the Logis. Give the assaults weapon bonus that make since, give them some more speed and stamina if you thing the amount they have already isn't enough, but don't further nerf the Logis. Remember we took a Massive hit earlier this year with the loss of out rep bonus and nerf to equipment giving us bonuses that tried to lock us into specific roles. Most of us rightfully complained about that. I thought that was enough. Didn't that take us off the nerf bat radar? I don't see massive amounts of threads about the slayer Logis anymore, and I don't see them in game. Now all I see are these death balls of 3 Logis repping each other and 1 or 2 heavies. I think the sad part here is that there isn't more uproar over this because all the old "slayer Logis" had the biggest mouths left for scout suits leaving the real Logis behind to quietly fend for themselves. I'm sorry but our data shows that logis outnumber assaults by a huge margin. Nothing about this change will make logis worse at being logis. CCP Rattati, please correct me if I'm wrong, but has not the community expressed time and time again to please not try to make a suit more attractive by forcing them out of another suit? Don't buff the Assaults by further nerfing the Logis, that's not going to create more Assaults, it's going to create more Scouts. What are your numbers showing? That on average more players are playing Logi and scorning more kills than Assaults, or just that in the Medium Frame world, Logis FAR out number Assaults? If the latter is the case could it be that it's far easier to run around with a rep tool attached to a heavy than it is to kill something with an Assault? If you make these changes you may get the desired number of Less Logis on the field, but I doubt they are going to shift to the Assault world. That's not making Assaults happy, that's upsetting one of the largest portions of your player base! This. I'll just be taking Amarr Sentinel to proto instead of CalLogi as I'd planned, and then moving to Amarr Scout and Commando eventually to round out the suite. I'll still not use my assault any more than I do already (which is to say never unless I'm in squad with multiple slayer scouts). CCP Rattati ily! AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 674	Posted - 2014.07.10 00:56:00 - [243] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: 1.9 not planned basically means that dropship skill stacking wont be adressed anytime soon which im glad about cause i like to use dropships with gunners. And we actually get rewarded for doing teamwork unlike the solo python scrubs that just farm kills. Exactly. Why destroy one of the most intensely cooperative elements of the game. It's akin to logis and heavies. Purchase Aurum Today!
P14GU3 The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 802	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:02:00 - [244] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Removing the A Logis sidearm?? Please no! Who is asking for this? This was the best part of this suit and the only reason I skilled it. What is it taking away from? Not the Amarr Assault. Everyone I've read has agreed forever that that except for the slot issue (which was fixed right?) the Amarr Assault was the only Assault that was working as intended (good bonus anyway). Look, I have all 4 Logis, and play all but the Cal, that sidearm is the only reason to play that suit! I'll run a min for the speed and slot layout, or a Gal for the Tank, slot layout and bonus every time over the Amarr Logi, if not for that sidearm. And why would you slow us down?? We already have Massive stamina disadvantages, our speed is required to keep us in support of our close surroundings. Look, buff assaults please, they need it, but not at the expense of the Logis. Give the assaults weapon bonus that make since, give them some more speed and stamina if you thing the amount they have already isn't enough, but don't further nerf the Logis. Remember we took a Massive hit earlier this year with the loss of out rep bonus and nerf to equipment giving us bonuses that tried to lock us into specific roles. Most of us rightfully complained about that. I thought that was enough. Didn't that take us off the nerf bat radar? I don't see massive amounts of threads about the slayer Logis anymore, and I don't see them in game. Now all I see are these death balls of 3 Logis repping each other and 1 or 2 heavies. I think the sad part here is that there isn't more uproar over this because all the old "slayer Logis" had the biggest mouths left for scout suits leaving the real Logis behind to quietly fend for themselves. I'm sorry but our data shows that logis outnumber assaults by a huge margin. Nothing about this change will make logis worse at being logis. CCP Rattati, please correct me if I'm wrong, but has not the community expressed time and time again to please not try to make a suit more attractive by forcing them out of another suit? Don't buff the Assaults by further nerfing the Logis, that's not going to create more Assaults, it's going to create more Scouts. What are your numbers showing? That on average more players are playing Logi and scorning more kills than Assaults, or just that in the Medium Frame world, Logis FAR out number Assaults? If the latter is the case could it be that it's far easier to run around with a rep tool attached to a heavy than it is to kill something with an Assault? If you make these changes you may get the desired number of Less Logis on the field, but I doubt they are going to shift to the Assault world. That's not making Assaults happy, that's upsetting one of the largest portions of your player base! This. I'll just be taking Amarr Sentinel to proto instead of CalLogi as I'd planned, and then moving to Amarr Scout and Commando eventually to round out the suite. I'll still not use my assault any more than I do already (which is to say never unless I'm in squad with multiple slayer scouts). Do you not see what your community is telling you? The Assault bonuses are the reason that assaults are not used. This hotfix as proposed will not fix the issue. Assaults will still not be used. Real Logis will only be minmatar, and the supposed slayer logis will become scouts. Unless you define a real role (DPS) for assaults, nothing will truly change. I only play dust514ums now. It was always more fun than the actual game anyways.
Finn Colman Immortal Guides 27	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:04:00 - [245] - Quote A medi-scout's view on Amarr heavies losing their sidearms (main non-story based points will be Underlined, bolded and Italicised: When I began in Dust I took a through look before buying any new suits. I looked at every class and every race. Out of all of them, the Amarr appeared to me as the worst. They simply don't fit my preferences. They have the highest health, at an expense to speed. I liked their weapons better than the rest (this was before all of the new sidearms and rifles), but their suits to me were just awful. I only skilled into their heavy suit because it was the only one at the time. In logistics I found that the only interesting ones were the Amarr and the Minmatar. The Minmatar were my favourite drop suit race because they are the fastest, and in terms of a useful logi bonus, the Minmatar had the best. There was only one reason I even considered Ammar, and that was the sidearm. But, again I moved on to the scouts. Of course I picked the fastest suit I could get, the Minmatar scout. At first I was just an average Minja wannabe. It wasn't until later that I found that I could be a medic in a scout suit. This has been my main fit ever since.
Beld Errmon 1751	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:07:00 - [246] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Well looking on the other hand that fixing the skill stacking on ADS requires a client update trough PSN allready means that this is "very unlikely" to happend. Cause client side updates needs to be verified by sony and that costs money. And CCP branded this game as "dead" with their "dust514 keynote" at the fanfest which means that they wont spend a single cent to add/fix something. But go on CCP and IWS prove me wrong and pull out a client update out of your hats. I dare you, i double dare you. As CCP Ratatti explained publically before a client update is not out of the question of the realm of possibility; it is just something he rather do later than now. CCP has told the CPM the same deal as well there is no issue with getting a "1.9" but the major problem remains is the simple fact there is no 1.9 being planned right now. The closest thing we have is likely the shopping list CCP Ratatti keeps adding to with every hotfix when he runs into something he cant do a server side update to fix. 1.9 not planned basically means that dropship skill stacking wont be adressed anytime soon which im glad about cause i like to use dropships with gunners. And we actually get rewarded for doing teamwork unlike the solo python scrubs that just farm kills. Im fully aware that you dont want to admit that my apocalyptic claim is right simply cause CCP doesnt want to demotivate the community. Or simple put: "GUYS DONT WORRY WE GOT THIS! NOW GO BUY AUR!" yeah cause exploiting a bug to farm kills is so much less scrubby cause you did it with team work.... Does your crew ever encounter stacked incubi? I don't think it does because you'd be killed faster than my solo incubus and cry even harder than I do about the bs dmg and rof exploit. Pilot - Tanker - FOTM (insert here)
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14557	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:07:00 - [247] - Quote Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: The dark cloud wrote: 1.9 not planned basically means that dropship skill stacking wont be adressed anytime soon which im glad about cause i like to use dropships with gunners. And we actually get rewarded for doing teamwork unlike the solo python scrubs that just farm kills. Exactly. Why destroy one of the most intensely cooperative elements of the game. It's akin to logis and heavies. Abusing broken mechanics doesn't mean you're being some amazing team player, it means you're abusing clearly bugged mechanics. If they want to encourage teamwork, they would add a 15% PGU/CPU reduction to the fitting cost of side turrets per level in ADS skill, in addition to the 2% damage boost, along with a slight buff to the base PGU/CPU of ships. The normal 50% RoF / 10% Damage plus other skill bonuses is plenty for skilled players. Anything above is a crutch for players that need to utilize broken mechanics to stand out in any given match. The Future
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 4126	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:10:00 - [248] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Also, might be beating a dead horse, but I really think the Amarr logi should keep the sidearm and not gain the equipment, it would be a fair tradeoff for having less equipment than other logis, and thus balanced. I can adapt to the loss of the sidearm if I need to though, I have a proto Amarr logi, and I don't think the changes would be too disruptive. Also, you reeeeaaaally should put the high/low slot thing in the original post, would have saved me a lot of typing about the slot inequalities. I want the sidearm, that's a given. But I would prefer an equipment to a mod slot; improve my logi, not my slaying. CCP Rattati ily! AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3481	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:11:00 - [249] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: yeah cause exploiting a bug to farm kills is so much less scrubby cause you did it with team work.... Does your crew ever encounter stacked incubi? I don't think it does because you'd be killed faster than my solo incubus and cry even harder than I do about the bs dmg and rof exploit. Who sayd that i dont run a incubus with small rails?
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 415	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:13:00 - [250] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: So, you are basically buffing 2 logis, and slightly nerfing all of them? Is the Amarr logi now going to be slower than a Min Commado? The Min Logi already is the second lowest HP suit in the game, and you are going to make it even slower? Por que? The low HP suits have at least been marginally faster than the rest. It's hard enough to outrun an HMG as a Min Logi, and now I'm going to be slower, while everyone else is faster AND has higher eHP? I'm so confused by this logic.... The logic seems to be assaults are garbage and people use logis more, so we have to make logis worse than assaults are. 12 pages of this and I havent seen any other reason... I dont think we need to make logis just plain out worse than assaults; just not as desired for attack in comparison to assaults. Assaults should be superior in pressing the enemy Logis should be superior in pressing their allies forward. And a PG/CPU buff isnt going to do it. As long as a Scrambler is the same on a logi as it is on an assault, nothing will change. The assaults need a real bonus, a reason to be used. As long as logis have the same damage output and more equipment, they will be the go to medium frame. The issue is not logis, its assaults. I totally disagree with this. The issue isn't that logis are better at kiling than assaults. It is that scouts are better logis and killers than either of the med. frames. The bonuese put into place need to help assaults compete with scouts from a killing point of view and logis be more competetive from a support point of view. lmao! scouts are not better logis than minmitar logis.... 10% rep bonus 4 equipment slots tons more tank gtfo with that nonsense....

Zaria Min Deir Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 736	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:14:00 - [251] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I'm sorry but our data shows that logis outnumber assaults by a huge margin. Nothing about this change will make logis worse at being logis. Such a bad reason to nerf something. Because there are many people using it, it must be nerfed? wtf? Really? This would be the same reason the AR was kept so weak in comparison to other rifles for so long, right? And this was the same logic behind "data seemed to suggest that the SCR is UP", as relatively few people were using it? But now you yourself have attempted to balance the rifles NOT according to just how many people use them, but actual performance. So why do the logi suits need to be nerfed based on how many people use them? Also, once again, I and many others have said this many many times, the assault suits being weak is not the logi suit's fault, it just means the assault suits need a buff. Nerfing logi suits will do absolutely nothing to fix the assault suits. The reason there are so many people NOT using the assault suits is because CCP has refused to buff the assault suits for over a year now, even though anyone playing the game knows they need it, and need it badly. Guess what. Nothing about your proposed changes to logis will make assaults better at being assaults, either. You DO realize that the dropsuit is the single most expensive thing in the game (for infantry, at least) to skill into. So when skilling into a suit, you are committing to using it it for quite a while before you can get another one. So, yes, many people have chosen to spec into a logi suit instead of an assault, NOT because the logi suit is a great assault suit, but because the assault suit is bad. Also. As a min logi, with my CCP prescribed rep tool, I currently struggle keeping up with the OP heavies that I'm supposed to rep. I can't stack on much more speed, because I'm already paper thin, but I can't brick tank either (even if I wanted to) because then there is no way I can keep up with the heavies that stack kin cats instead of plates, as most of the good heavies have realized they don't really need plates anymore, thanks to all the buffs. And you want to make me even slower. Really? Thanks, Rattati, you're such a pal. Time to retire the rep tool, I guess. Oh, and. As I thankfully got rid of my Amarr logi when 1.8 hit, I don't really gaf, but taking away the sidearm... such BS. So, you planning on reimbursing the sidearm skill tree for all Amarr logis? Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"
P14GU3 The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 806	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:17:00 - [252] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Also, might be beating a dead horse, but I really think the Amarr logi should keep the sidearm and not gain the equipment, it would be a fair tradeoff for having less equipment than other logis, and thus balanced. I can adapt to the loss of the sidearm if I need to though, I have a proto Amarr logi, and I don't think the changes would be too disruptive. Also, you reeeeaaaally should put the high/low slot thing in the original post, would have saved me a lot of typing about the slot inequalities. I want the sidearm, that's a given. But I would prefer an equipment to a mod slot; improve my logi, not my slaying. But there are two other logis with extra equipment, if you wanted the equipment over a sidearm, why not go min/gal? We specced amarr for a reason, that reason was links (broken atm) and a sidearm. Thats it... I only play dust514ums now. It was always more fun than the actual game anyways.
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 619	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:18:00 - [253] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: So, you are basically buffing 2 logis, and slightly nerfing all of them? Is the Amarr logi now going to be slower than a Min Commado? The Min Logi already is the second lowest HP suit in the game, and you are going to make it even slower? Por que? The low HP suits have at least been marginally faster than the rest. It's hard enough to outrun an HMG as a Min Logi, and now I'm going to be slower, while everyone else is faster AND has higher eHP? I'm so confused by this logic.... The logic seems to be assaults are garbage and people use logis more, so we have to make logis worse than assaults are. 12 pages of this and I havent seen any other reason... I dont think we need to make logis just plain out worse than assaults; just not as desired for attack in comparison to assaults. Assaults should be superior in pressing the enemy Logis should be superior in pressing their allies forward. How can we push them forward if we can't even keep up? Ride around in an LAV with our heavy suit tethers and play instagank heavy LAV? Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
Mauren NOON The Exemplars Top Men. 368	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:20:00 - [254] - Quote Man... if they actually implement that logi nerf....people will hate devs even more o.O this is a sign Rattati, don't do it. Community say NAY Scr and commando enthusiast. A commando is not just a suit, but a way of life... "The only thing to fear is fear itself"
Eko Sol Strange Playings 579	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:21:00 - [255] - Quote Possible assault fix or one part? Decrease one high slot and have a blanket 10% Light Weapon and Side arm damage bonus? Post Distaste for A-Logi changes in Charlie here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2249908#post2249908
Mauren NOON The Exemplars Top Men. 368	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:25:00 - [256] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: Possible assault fix or one part? Decrease one high slot and have a blanket 10% Light Weapon and Side arm damage bonus? So give it a bonus the commando already has? No thanks Scr and commando enthusiast. A commando is not just a suit, but a way of life... "The only thing to fear is fear itself"
Eko Sol Strange Playings 580	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:30:00 - [257] - Quote Mauren NOON wrote: Eko Sol wrote: Possible assault fix or one part? Decrease one high slot and have a blanket 10% Light Weapon and Side arm damage bonus? So give it a bonus the commando already has? No thanks But the slot layouts allow for more versatility. I made another series of suggestions earlier. Really, I'll go back to something I said in the forums about a month after 1.7. They should just combine commando and assault. Logi should be the only medium. Commando should have a nade and no eq slot...done. Logi's should have to support commandos as they do Sentinals. That's just my opinion. That is being said now that I started the A-Com and freaking love sitting in the back with my LSR just destroying things. I only have one point in LSR and it's still sick. ScR when a scout tries to sneak up. Post Distaste for A-Logi changes in Charlie here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2249908#post2249908
P14GU3 The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 808	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:30:00 - [258] - Quote Mauren NOON wrote: Eko Sol wrote: Possible assault fix or one part? Decrease one high slot and have a blanket 10% Light Weapon and Side arm damage bonus? So give it a bonus the commando already has? No thanks What would it take for you to play an assault? Because everyone I talk to says they dont play assault because of the crap bonuses. There is no real assault bonus for any of then except the amarr and minmatar, which is more damage before the mag runs dry or overheats. I only play dust514ums now. It was always more fun than the actual game anyways.
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 4127	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:33:00 - [259] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Eko Sol wrote: WE DON'T WANT MORE EQUIPMENT AND MODULE SLOTS. We want our god damn Side Arm. You are CPM. You are supposed to support the masses whether you agree or not. Fight for us and not your warped sense of appealing to CCP. You don't play. You know what. Look up my monthly numbers already. Look where I am at. I play 65% AV right now so the lack of kills is from redrats jumping out of drop ships I shoot down. I run A-Logi a lot and get WP for my fast uplinks thus high WP. I have tons of WP from completely legitimate playing. I got over 5k WP today from forging and swarming vehicles and some uplinks. 2nd place was Southpac at almost 5k. 3rd place was about 1300 wp. We had top kills as well. We had great KDR. We push to be the best players we can be no matter how terrible our blueberries are. You should not be arguing with a player that puts this much AUR, Time, and effort into this game. Maybe CCP Ratatti can post the hours I play. Yes, I currently have no life while trying to save money but that fully justifies why players like myself and others who put in the hours should be listened to and supported. All of the logis are fine. The speed nerf is a maybe for me. Fine, just don't change anything else. Start more conversation topics and do the changes in delta. DEFEND US IWS. Not one person has provided feedback and said "can't wait till my A-Logi loses it's side arm and gets modules and equipment". Not one. I stand by the fact that I should AT LEAST keep the current layout for AUR gear if I don't get a respec. I'll eat the money (I don't want to) if I get a respec. We could play rewind theater and show how much people cried about being short changed an equipment slot for a side arm and how stupidly odd it was for Amarrs to getting side arms as it made no sense back then. These complaints made at the apex of the slayer logi mind you. I mean you're 2 slots down from everyone else. Those modules slots are the most excessively heaviest stat in the game; side arm is one of the weakest slot weights as well because the overall dps associated with that slot is the lowest of the three, and the fact the mere presence of the other slot further degrades that weight because you only got two hands. Also Logi is not the only viable AV class there, all classes are viable AV in their own ways. Many don't need to resort to using equipment slots or av weapons and all classes are nearly equally capable of killing every vehicle in the game right now. The A-Logi with a sidearm was a mistake that shouldn't have been made in the first place. Similar to how shoving HAVs into this game without a proper role other than to blow **** up was a mistake that should not have happened in the first place. Also ever heard of unpopular changes? This is one of them. The combined fact that so many players are adamant about the side arm speaks volumes as to why its wrong and needs to be changed. I am shocked not more players are not seeking to try to change CCP Rattati's mind over the lackluster bonus that expires after you die. So if you're so much of an expert. Under the altered amarr logi slot layout I want you to exactly tell me what would make it inferior to all the other races logistics; stat per stat. You know why people complained about it back then? Every single A-logi was penalised but only one had the sidearm. Why are we up in arms about our sidearm? Because he has given no good reason to remove it. All he said was 'logis outnumber assaults'. Yeah, like nerfing my logi will drive me to my Assault. I'll hang out in my scout, thanks. CCP Rattati ily! AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
Mauren NOON The Exemplars Top Men. 369	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:33:00 - [260] - Quote I'm a proto amarr commando and I don't want assaults to have that skill because the only thing commandos have going for them is 2 lights. And giving amarr assault a damage and heat build up bonus will be as broken as Rihanna's jaw bone..... Scr and commando enthusiast. A commando is not just a suit, but a way of life... "The only thing to fear is fear itself"

P14GU3 The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 808	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:35:00 - [261] - Quote Mauren NOON wrote: I'm a proto amarr commando and I don't want assaults to have that skill because the only thing commandos have going for them is 2 lights. And giving amarr assault a damage and heat build up bonus will be as broken as Rihanna's jaw bone..... The assault is already as broken as Rihanna's jaw bone... I only play dust514ums now. It was always more fun than the actual game anyways.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15837	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:36:00 - [262] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: stuff They're called governors and regulators and to bring it to full power voids the warranty usually. The need for excess is what is leading to american car manufacturing in a decline because they lose sight of the innovation needed to survive the ever rapidly changing environment that is finding less and less need for them. Why get a V6 which is capped by law and manufactured limiters when you can get a V3 without the restrictions for half the metal; heat; and fuel for the same power? Then again the future looks like V0 is going to be the standard. Especially if you're living in Iceland that possibility is rather real. Bottom point Adapt or Die. As for your situation yes that sort of crap happens in the nature of the game that one counter leads to the other and you really have to rely on your skills to try to overcome your weakness. A rock can easily bust through paper but if the paper is woven and reinforced just right you're not going to be able to hand toss it hard enough to break through. In that case all logis need to give up 1 tank slot and 1 equip slot for a side arm if that's the case. And you have your case to point it out again in this thread with CCP Ratatti reading. Normally I am against it but I do find it a bit off putting that they're sorta screwed out of it as nanohives seem to not suffer from their throwers death and yes I seen the bugs myself where it would not apply when thrown and still apply after they've died. Its rather annoying. If you feel this conversation and implementation needs to be delayed to delta by all means I will support you there. I do think it is a bit much with assaults getting changed over significantly and the amarr/minmatar scout being brought to bear to being your new worst nightmares. CCP Ratatti's been in the company for a while much longer than dust 514; I don't know his exact background but he does understand he can't solely rely on numbers and needs context. There are however times when context is not enough and this is one of those cases unfortunately. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3481	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:36:00 - [263] - Quote Assaults are not beeing used because literally every other suit category is better. And nerfing the only other medium frame suit is not going to make them viable. Honestly when you nerfbat logis you will only create more heavys and scouts and then the circlejerk is complete. Assaults have horrible bonuses and that is the only reason why they are not beeing used. And personally i see more heavys and scouts then i see logis running around. And even then they just either throw uplinks out or are using a reptool behind a heavy. Which is hardly overlapping with assaults.
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 4127	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:39:00 - [264] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Also, might be beating a dead horse, but I really think the Amarr logi should keep the sidearm and not gain the equipment, it would be a fair tradeoff for having less equipment than other logis, and thus balanced. I can adapt to the loss of the sidearm if I need to though, I have a proto Amarr logi, and I don't think the changes would be too disruptive. Also, you reeeeaaaally should put the high/low slot thing in the original post, would have saved me a lot of typing about the slot inequalities. I want the sidearm, that's a given. But I would prefer an equipment to a mod slot; improve my logi, not my slaying. But there are two other logis with extra equipment, if you wanted the equipment over a sidearm, why not go min/gal? We specced amarr for a reason, that reason was links (broken atm) and a sidearm. Thats it... This is what I meant; to expand, I don't want my logi to be a slayer suit. Adding a slot and keeping the sidearm is heading in that direction. I would much rather keeping the sidearm for self-defence and having another equipment slot to round out my layout. CCP Rattati ily! AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
Eko Sol Strange Playings 581	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:41:00 - [265] - Quote Mauren NOON wrote: I'm a proto amarr commando and I don't want assaults to have that skill because the only thing commandos have going for them is 2 lights. And giving amarr assault a damage and heat build up bonus will be as broken as Rihanna's jaw bone..... Good Ol Rihanna jokes. That's a ride or die chick I swear. My type though so I can't bash on her. Anyway. My suggestion stands at a stamina regen decrease, 10% speed increase, 10% base HP increase, movement penalty (i.e. armor plates) reduction per level. Maybe add an entire nade slot and increase passive scan a little maybe a base of 35. The only thing I can think of that I might be able to jump on board with as far as logi's are concerned is logis can't fit Damage mods. Problem solved. People will be assault for the DPS. Thoughts? Post Distaste for A-Logi changes in Charlie here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2249908#post2249908
castba Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 507	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:43:00 - [266] - Quote Can we please have deaths removed from record/battle stats/team clone count if revived? Only terminated clones should count as terminated clones.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11319	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:43:00 - [267] - Quote Not sure I said it before, but I am against the logi speed reduction. I don't want logis nerfed until we see the effects of an assault buff first. I would also like to reiterate these things: People who skilled into Caldari scout did so for the precision bonus, and not the range, for me personally it was the deciding factor; a lot of people will feel like your proposed changes invalidates their decision. On top of that, the Amarr scout has a lot of low slots to stack a ton of dampeners, giving the Amarr scout both precision AND dampening capacity could make them too strong. I propose allowing Caldari keep precision, and Amarr gain range (5% per level). I would suggest reviewing the racial bonuses for the assaults. Both the Amarr and Minmatar assaults have good bonuses; allows them to keep shooting longer before stopping from overheat/magazine-depletion. I would suggest giving the Gallente and Caldari assault magazine size bonuses to their racial weapons. The Caldari assault reload bonus is pretty crappy considering the Caldari commando gets the same reload bonus in addition to a damage bonus. I have a Gallente assault level 5 alt account, and I find the Gallente assault bonus almost unnoticeable on my AR. So yeah, magazine increase bonuses have proven useful already, you should use them for the Caldari and Gallente assaults. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3214	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:44:00 - [268] - Quote Anything to help mitigate the problem of EQ spam and its effect on Lag/frame rate? Appia Vibbia for CPM1 Empress of Alts
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3669	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:46:00 - [269] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Eko Sol wrote: stuff They're called governors and regulators and to bring it to full power voids the warranty usually. The need for excess is what is leading to american car manufacturing in a decline because they lose sight of the innovation needed to survive the ever rapidly changing environment that is finding less and less need for them. Why get a V6 which is capped by law and manufactured limiters when you can get a V3 without the restrictions for half the metal; heat; and fuel for the same power? Then again the future looks like V0 is going to be the standard. Especially if you're living in Iceland that possibility is rather real. Bottom point Adapt or Die. As for your situation yes that sort of crap happens in the nature of the game that one counter leads to the other and you really have to rely on your skills to try to overcome your weakness. A rock can easily bust through paper but if the paper is woven and reinforced just right you're not going to be able to hand toss it hard enough to break through. In that case all logis need to give up 1 tank slot and 1 equip slot for a side arm if that's the case. And you have your case to point it out again in this thread with CCP Ratatti reading. Normally I am against it but I do find it a bit off putting that they're sorta screwed out of it as nanohives seem to not suffer from their throwers death and yes I seen the bugs myself where it would not apply when thrown and still apply after they've died. Its rather annoying. If you feel this conversation and implementation needs to be delayed to delta by all means I will support you there. I do think it is a bit much with assaults getting changed over significantly and the amarr/minmatar scout being brought to bear to being your new worst nightmares. CCP Ratatti's been in the company for a while much longer than dust 514; I don't know his exact background but he does understand he can't solely rely on numbers and needs context. There are however times when context is not enough and this is one of those cases unfortunately. Not sure I get your point IWS, we DO give up an equipment slot and a tank slot for the sidearm already. Which, as you pointed out, is not all that fair a trade, I mean, the STD Amarr logi really has virtually nothing going for it compared to a scout. If you wan to make it less apt to be used instead of an assault, why not give it a third equipment slot but not the extra low that it logically should have when you look at the Amarr assault layout. That also a fair trade for the sidearm considering how slow it is, the low PG, etc, etc. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
SirManBoy Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 616	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:46:00 - [270] - Quote These Amarr logistics changes are coming from way out in left field, Rattati. Why? The sidearm was one of the primary reasons why players were willing to sacrifice an equipment slot and skill into this unique suit. For me, this devalues both my investment in the SMG and the massdriver because I don't use the MD without a sidearm.

Beld Errmon 1752	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:47:00 - [271] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Beld Errmon wrote: yeah cause exploiting a bug to farm kills is so much less scrubby cause you did it with team work.... Does your crew ever encounter stacked incubi? I don't think it does because you'd be killed faster than my solo incubus and cry even harder than I do about the bs dmg and rof exploit. Who sayd that i dont run a incubus with small rails? I really don't give a flux what you run, you can't go around calling people scrubs while you exploit a bug to do exactly what they are doing but far worse. And as for the people that think this will kill side gunning on ADS, thats BS, I'm pretty sure the intention of the mechanic was to allow the skills to be applied just not stacked so if the pilot is maxed out his skills will still apply to the gunner, it just won't double up the way it does now, it will still be powerful and a crewed ADS will still have the advantage over an uncrewed one. Instead of trying to protect a stupid exploit you should be pushing for normal dropships to get a bonus to running a crew and have a stronger tank than an ADS, then you get to have your "im not a scrub cause I use teamwork yo" without exploiting a bug. Pilot - Tanker - FOTM (insert here)
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15837	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:53:00 - [272] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Eko Sol wrote: stuff They're called governors and regulators and to bring it to full power voids the warranty usually. The need for excess is what is leading to american car manufacturing in a decline because they lose sight of the innovation needed to survive the ever rapidly changing environment that is finding less and less need for them. Why get a V6 which is capped by law and manufactured limiters when you can get a V3 without the restrictions for half the metal; heat; and fuel for the same power? Then again the future looks like V0 is going to be the standard. Especially if you're living in Iceland that possibility is rather real. Bottom point Adapt or Die. As for your situation yes that sort of crap happens in the nature of the game that one counter leads to the other and you really have to rely on your skills to try to overcome your weakness. A rock can easily bust through paper but if the paper is woven and reinforced just right you're not going to be able to hand toss it hard enough to break through. In that case all logis need to give up 1 tank slot and 1 equip slot for a side arm if that's the case. And you have your case to point it out again in this thread with CCP Ratatti reading. Normally I am against it but I do find it a bit off putting that they're sorta screwed out of it as nanohives seem to not suffer from their throwers death and yes I seen the bugs myself where it would not apply when thrown and still apply after they've died. Its rather annoying. If you feel this conversation and implementation needs to be delayed to delta by all means I will support you there. I do think it is a bit much with assaults getting changed over significantly and the amarr/minmatar scout being brought to bear to being your new worst nightmares. CCP Ratatti's been in the company for a while much longer than dust 514; I don't know his exact background but he does understand he can't solely rely on numbers and needs context. There are however times when context is not enough and this is one of those cases unfortunately. Not sure I get your point IWS, we DO give up an equipment slot and a tank slot for the sidearm already. Which, as you pointed out, is not all that fair a trade, I mean, the STD Amarr logi really has virtually nothing going for it compared to a scout. If you wan to make it less apt to be used instead of an assault, why not give it a third equipment slot but not the extra low that it logically should have when you look at the Amarr assault layout. That also a fair trade for the sidearm considering how slow it is, the low PG, etc, etc. Was inferring to do that to all logis. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Cornballs Get Stonewalled 871	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:54:00 - [273] - Quote B-F M wrote: Check out the fit I posted, it's totally viable, has just under 500eHP while still maintaining vastly above average situational awareness, speed, damage and a low profile. They are rare, but I'm surprised (and envious) you've not come up against them. I can understand that and all but I can get that on a Hunter scout in my lows alone . That's what I mean , I understand you but to me that's just not bricking ... not real bricking . You would think that CCP would have given the infantry refund that should have been in 1.8.
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3558	Posted - 2014.07.10 01:58:00 - [274] - Quote SirManBoy wrote: These Amarr logistics changes are coming from way out in left field, Rattati. Why? The sidearm was one of the primary reasons why players were willing to sacrifice an equipment slot and skill into this unique suit. For me, this devalues both my investment in the SMG and the massdriver because I don't use the MD without a sidearm. Apparently you should just go use a scout because for one less equip and some fitting space you get a ton of bonuses (see shayz thread about how many modules you need to make an assault mimic a scouts stats vs what you need to make a scout into an assault) and will have that tasty sidearm to boot. Candidate for CPM1 Go VOTE! Dust514.com They call me Princess Zatata <3
P14GU3 The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 808	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:02:00 - [275] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: SirManBoy wrote: These Amarr logistics changes are coming from way out in left field, Rattati. Why? The sidearm was one of the primary reasons why players were willing to sacrifice an equipment slot and skill into this unique suit. For me, this devalues both my investment in the SMG and the massdriver because I don't use the MD without a sidearm. Apparently you should just go use a scout because for one less equip and some fitting space you get a ton of bonuses (see shayz thread about how many modules you need to make an assault mimic a scouts stats vs what you need to make a scout into an assault) and will have that tasty sidearm to boot. If the proposed changes go through, thats exactly what I will do. I only play dust514ums now. It was always more fun than the actual game anyways.
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 4128	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:02:00 - [276] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: B-F M wrote: Check out the fit I posted, it's totally viable, has just under 500eHP while still maintaining vastly above average situational awareness, speed, damage and a low profile. They are rare, but I'm surprised (and envious) you've not come up against them. I can understand that and all but I can get that on a Hunter scout in my lows alone . That's what I mean , I understand you but to me that's just not bricking ... not real bricking . This is a bricked scout. CCP Rattati ily! AmLogi 5 GÇó AmAss 5 GÇó AmSent 4 GÇó CalScout 5 CalLogi, you're next!
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 725	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:03:00 - [277] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Mauren NOON wrote: Eko Sol wrote: Possible assault fix or one part? Decrease one high slot and have a blanket 10% Light Weapon and Side arm damage bonus? So give it a bonus the commando already has? No thanks What would it take for you to play an assault? Because everyone I talk to says they dont play assault because of the crap bonuses. There is no real assault bonus for any of then except the amarr and minmatar, which is more damage before the mag runs dry or overheats. There have been so many good suggestion that it's hard to choose. Make the reload speed something worth a crap. Not 2 or 5 or even 10% per level, make it 20%, get Assaults reloading at 2x everyone else. I never understood why CCP is so scared of the "slide of hand" perk Give them extra damage, just because you gave it to the commando, does mean it doesn't belong on the Assault Give them regen bonuses that help them get back in battle faster for their respective Tanks Give them and extra grenade and a bonus to splash radius, damage, and distance they can throw them Give them back their extra equipment slot at Proto Give them Range and Acuracy bonuses at both Hipfire and ADS that is enough that you feel the difference. I want to be dropped by an Assault st 80m by a plasma rifle and a RR at 150m if he's good enough to hit me. The Assaults are should attract the players that want to be just straight killers, players who have the best gun game. The pure FPS players who treasury Gun game and K/D above all else. Their perks should support that. The problem is that most of the differences we are used to, like the reload bonus, or the accuracy bonus aren't pronounced enough to make a real difference in your gun game. Think of the 2 bonus that are rejoiced the most, min and amarr, which both equate to what 3 to 5 more trigger pulls? But we LOVE them not because they are so great, but because they are just so much greater than the other BS bonuses. Give me a Gal Assault that can reload a mag damn near as fast as I can switch to my sidearm and watch the gun gamers rejoice. Let me out range you because I'm a damn Assault and that's what I'm trained to do and see for once, finally, QQ threads about Assaults suits being OP. THAT is what the Assault class needs, bonus that do the same thing for their gun game that the scout changes did for their stealth game. YouTube
Eko Sol Strange Playings 581	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:05:00 - [278] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Mauren NOON wrote: Eko Sol wrote: Possible assault fix or one part? Decrease one high slot and have a blanket 10% Light Weapon and Side arm damage bonus? So give it a bonus the commando already has? No thanks What would it take for you to play an assault? Because everyone I talk to says they dont play assault because of the crap bonuses. There is no real assault bonus for any of then except the amarr and minmatar, which is more damage before the mag runs dry or overheats. There have been so many good suggestion that it's hard to choose. Make the reload speed something worth a crap. Not 2 or 5 or even 10% per level, make it 20%, get Assaults reloading at 2x everyone else. I never understood why CCP is so scared of the "slide of hand" perk Give them extra damage, just because you gave it to the commando, does mean it doesn't belong on the Assault Give them regen bonuses that help them get back in battle faster for their respective Tanks Give them and extra grenade and a bonus to splash radius, damage, and distance they can throw them Give them back their extra equipment slot at Proto Give them Range and Acuracy bonuses at both Hipfire and ADS that is enough that you feel the difference. I want to be dropped by an Assault st 80m by a plasma rifle and a RR at 150m if he's good enough to hit me. The Assaults are should attract the players that want to be just straight killers, players who have the best gun game. The pure FPS players who treasury Gun game and K/D above all else. Their perks should support that. The problem is that most of the differences we are used to, like the reload bonus, or the accuracy bonus aren't pronounced enough to make a real difference in your gun game. Think of the 2 bonus that are rejoiced the most, min and amarr, which both equate to what 3 to 5 more trigger pulls? But we LOVE them not because they are so great, but because they are just so much greater than the other BS bonuses. Give me a Gal Assault that can reload a mag damn near as fast as I can switch to my sidearm and watch the gun gamers rejoice. Let me out range you because I'm a damn Assault and that's what I'm trained to do and see for once, finally, QQ threads about Assaults suits being OP. THAT is what the Assault class needs, bonus that do the same thing for their gun game that the scout changes did for their stealth game. I fiddle with Gal Assault and I think it's op. It's quite sick IMO. It's just very under utilized. Post Distaste for A-Logi changes in Charlie here: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2249908#post2249908
Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 674	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:07:00 - [279] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: If they want to encourage teamwork, they would add a 15% PGU/CPU reduction to the fitting cost of side turrets per level in ADS skill, in addition to the 2% damage boost, along with a slight buff to the base PGU/CPU of ships. Sure, that might let you fit a turret more easily, but it could also just be used to stack even more HP by the same solo pilots everyone seems to hate. While I like the idea of more fitting space, I would much rather see gunners get benefits for the millions of skill points they have invested like they do right now. Purchase Aurum Today!
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 79	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:17:00 - [280] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Assaults need a more useful bonus. It doesn't matter if they get a small HP change, all that does is blur the difference between Assault and Commando further. The only assault suit I do not have is the Amarr, I like the bonuses.

B-F M Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 27	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:20:00 - [281] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: B-F M wrote: Check out the fit I posted, it's totally viable, has just under 500eHP while still maintaining vastly above average situational awareness, speed, damage and a low profile. They are rare, but I'm surprised (and envious) you've not come up against them. I can understand that and all but I can get that on a Hunter scout in my lows alone . That's what I mean , I understand you but to me that's just not bricking ... not real bricking . Yeah, I misused the term 'brick' I thought it was meant stacking a bunch of either shield/armor not necessarily both. Ghosts of Dawn // now recruiting.
gauntlet44 LbowDeep Heaven84 Devils General Tso's Alliance 77	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:20:00 - [282] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Brush Master wrote: Would like more details on making logis all the same number of equipment slots. How many slots are you going to get? As someone that runs support logi almost all the time, for pub matches, 3 can get you by but for PC battles 4 allows you to be a full support logi with all areas you can support with. +1 on scaled wp for injector. I imagine it'll be 4 across the board. Fix the amarr logi's bonus to apply even after death!!!! please? So "good" uplinks can be left on the field, while you change to another logi? I think this is working as intended. an alogi cant spawn with the bonus that the suit gives, even spawning in with the same suit. but when i spawn my squad mates can enjoy the bonus. Absorb what is useful, discard what is not, make it uniquely your own........ Bruce Lee
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 79	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:21:00 - [283] - Quote Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: If they want to encourage teamwork, they would add a 15% PGU/CPU reduction to the fitting cost of side turrets per level in ADS skill, in addition to the 2% damage boost, along with a slight buff to the base PGU/CPU of ships. Sure, that might let you fit a turret more easily, but it could also just be used to stack even more HP by the same solo pilots everyone seems to hate. While I like the idea of more fitting space, I would much rather see gunners get benefits for the millions of skill points they have invested like they do right now. Comimg from someome who is a solo pilot people hate I can only respect the homesty of this opinion. And instead of viewing such a statement with cynicism I think we must seriously consider this. Darth is a great solo pilot. So if he is advocating for more role for side gunners I think that is admirable even if in the end such a thing is truly self serving it sounds honest.
The Black Jackal The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 1261	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:25:00 - [284] - Quote * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. To my mind, the Assault does need the ability to 'Assault' as a primarily offensive suit. This incorporates speed, damage, and survivability. At the moment, the Heavy trumps Assaults on 2 of these facets, and the third is overcompensated by it, making them a preferable 'point assault' and 'point guard'. Assaults need to be capable of taking on a 'point guard' 1v1to fulfil their defined 'Assault' Role. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase Don't see why this is needed to be honest. I rarely run one, but it's duration of fire isn't the reason i usually die to it or kill with it. * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. So long as a maxed out SP invested player can fit Prototype Suits with Complex gear. I'm behind this. * Installation buff, with a range and AI review, reduction of granted WP for destruction. The warpoints don't matter. You could remove the warpoints entirely, and HAVs will STILL take them out. Make them better positioned, and worth fighting for by the infantry. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements Only the small Blaster please. Leave the Large Blaster as is. * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. This seems like a kneejerk reaction trying to make scouts 'behave' similarly. I think the Amarr could fill the role of a 'Force Recon'. Defined https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2222039#post2222039 here is my own opinion on how scouts could be managed over trying to make them all appealing for the same reasons (or variations of the same). * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. This seems like a solid idea. It encourages speedster hackers. * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement Probably the one weapon I haven't used extensively, so I can't comment on this. Though in honesty, having been 1 shot by Nova Knife wielders, I wonder how nescesary it actually is? I don't often see them requiring a secondary charge hit to take me out. (If I'm wrong, please enlighten me, as I said, I've hardly used the weapon.) * Small rail range compared to sniper range LAV Mountain Snipers anyone? May actually be nice to have more utility for small turrets in general. * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. All over I see what is intended here, to make them less appealing as a 'Slayer' and more focused on support. I'm not sure 'normalizing' them is the best way to go about it, but at the moment have few better ideas. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP Nice fix. Preferable mechanic would be to give a flat Injected rate, but then give 'repair' WP for amount repaired. * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s Ok. * OB WP doubled Just plain remove it. It is the only escalation reward in public matches in a game that is built around NOT having escalation rewards. In Faction Warfare put them on a timer that a randomly nominated Ground Commander can access. * LP payout increased x-fold Don't forget ISK Payouts for Faction Warfare. Faction Warfare should be a lifestyle unto itself, and you SHOULD be able to make a living out of it. * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS Make it choose able. OMS has the capabilities to actually take out vehicles, and there should be an ambush-style game mode where vehicles can play. * Reduced ADS ISK price As the last 'Tech 2' Vehicle Standing, and thus without comparison, I believe that a reduction is in order until we have 'Tech 2' Vehicles once again back. Still under tech evaluation * Passive Scan sharing with squads So long as it is replaced with something that allows us to 'non-verbally' ping a target for our squad / team. (Akin to a Q-spot mechanic.) * Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible Do you wish to be revived? X Yes, O No. (Fixed) * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. Finally! Can we get something done about the Caldari Commando's.... style overall? * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free Reduced Cost will be fine. Giving stuff out for free will probably hurt the ideal that they should 'choose and specialise' when you can pick up alot of skills for free, what reason is there not to? Also please consider: Adding the Stunlock mechanic onto all AV weapons with varying strength dependant on the weapon's role. The Black Jackal for CPM1
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2142	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:32:00 - [285] - Quote @ Rattati re: Assaults There's a short but fecund archived thread Assault: What does the word mean to you?, notable for Beld Ermon's charming contribution, amongst other things. I'm copypatsafarianing my contribution below, but wanted to say that it's a mistake to approach the role of the assault dropsuit from the context of the Logi suit or how many peeps use it. Modifications to the logi suit/role should have no part in redefining the assault, to do so is to confuse correlation with causation, imo. I think we'll get a much better result if we focus the discussion and changes in Charlie on what we want the Assault to be. from here: I would say more of a built-in mechanic that gives assaults temporary hardening. The best and simplest way i can think of to implement this is that Assault shields OR armor would have a hardening buff applied so long as their hitpoints were above 66%. So the first third of an assaults sheilds or armor would be hardened, say by 5% per level of suit operation. This allows assualts to assault, but not to out-tank heavies. Logis moght have more ehp, but in a fresh encounter an assault would have a significant early advantage. Thinking about assaults more broadly, assaults have to be able to move fast, hit hard and adapt quickly, but they are also generalists. To me this implies that assault's bonuses should be general meaning several small buffs to a range of assault-enhancing abilities, and not overly racial. Also, we shoul avoid direct buffs to dps, but try and enhance how quicly assaults can apply their dps. Ranked list of prefered bonuses: 1) Sprint-speed bonus(not base speed, not strafe speed). 5%/lvl. EDIT: While stamina is above 66%. 2) Hardening mechanic detailed above. 5% broad-spectrum hardening/lvl to first third of primary tank hp. 3) Reload speed bonus on all weapons. 2%/lvl. 4) Dispersion/kick reduction on all weapons. 2%/lvl. Would have a lot more meaning if weapons had non-trivial kick. 5) Ammo capacity bonus on all weapons. 2%/lvl. 6) Melee damage bonus. 3%/lvl. 7) Ammo resupply speed bonus from hives/SDs. 8) Respawn speed bonus from UL/CRU/MCC. PSN: RationalSpark
Yeeeuuuupppp uptown456 Dark Taboo 416	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:35:00 - [286] - Quote Agreed with all besides logi speed nerf. They won't be able to keep up since you can't Sprint while repairing, which will pose as a big problem because of the previously repair tool range nerf. You'd have to think about that. Otherwise, I will tell you great job once Hot fix Charlie is released. But, setting your track record, I'm sure it will be great. Make it happen. I'm proud of you, my little Ratati Rage Proficiency V Mic status: Muted Storage Wars Champion.
SAIRAX SIS Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 97	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:41:00 - [287] - Quote Amarr Logistics wil be too Bad Suit. Gal Logi > Min Logi >>>>>>> Cal Logi >>>>Ama Logi Please payback Amarr Logi's SP or baiotical Buff. Ama Logi needs Buff. already worst. yoroshiku ne !pÇÇpÇÇCute Cat NyaoooonpÇÇGÖ¬
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15839	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:41:00 - [288] - Quote Look at it this way. If I give all assaults +1 equipment slot; where does that put the amarr logi??? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 726	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:42:00 - [289] - Quote I'm so mad about the Logi nerf and lack of Assault buff that I haven't even echoed the complaints about the scout changes yet. This is a bad idea for 3 reasons. 1. The selfish one. The precision is the Only reason I skilled the only reason I play the Cal scout. It fits the suit because it has to sacrifice Tank for extra precision. 2. Giving it to the Amarr is both unfair to players who skilled the Cal scout for precision, and will end up building an even stronger ewar suit for everyone BUT the Gal scout to have to deal with. 3. It only has 2 highs right, now we'll be back to a Gal scout that will be efectively invisible with only 1 complex Dampener? At least with the Cal we could force the Gal tank down. You'll effectively kill the Cal scout. But hey, this is obviously IWSes hotfix knowing his history of complaints and seeing the changes that are going in, despite most of the community disagreeing with him most of the time. I'm surprised there we aren't seeing another nerf to active scanners. Oh wait, Logi nerf! He rams thru another of his agenda by proxy. Guess I should be happy CCP Logibro told him "the answer is still NO on sidearm only Logis fool" as soon as the meeting started. I know that I'll now skill the Amarr scout, build it with 2x complex precision, 1 complex Rang, 2 complex Damp, and 1 complex reactive. My other scout will be a Gal with the exact same layout, and both will be OP as hell in the ewar category with no Cal scout to stop me. YouTube
Joe Macro Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 12	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:47:00 - [290] - Quote I would like the speed buff to assaults. I find that being able to move quicker helps me survive more that adding more armor. Also, like the buff to reactive plates. I use them on both assault and scout; mostly just the basic ones for extra reps and slight armor increase without being slowed down. (Also, not armor tank scout. Just one basic react plate for the reps and slight armor increase) So, if you increase assault speed then advanced or proto reactive plate may be more useful.

Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15840	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:53:00 - [291] - Quote Either way Lower speed of the three others amarr logi will be base like. Give significantly more Stamina and Stam Regen to all logis to keep up with their focus group via. Option A: Take 1 equip and 1 tank slot away from all logistics and give them a side arm Option B: Give amarr 1 equip and 1 tank slot and take away side arm Option C: Rename Amarr Logi to Amarr Medic create three new suits for the new class featuring side arms, improved survivability, and hp restore focus equipment and skill books and create a new amarr logi inline with option b. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 727	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:54:00 - [292] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Look at it this way. If I give all assaults +1 equipment slot; where does that put the amarr logi??? With 1 extra equipment slots and still with a sidearm? Look Tron, give up, your support for this change is non existent with the exception of CCP Ratt for some reason. YouTube
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15841	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:59:00 - [293] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Look at it this way. If I give all assaults +1 equipment slot; where does that put the amarr logi??? With 1 extra equipment slots and still with a sidearm? Look Tron, give up, your support for this change is non existent with the exception of CCP Ratt for some reason. Or maybe I am not letting my emotions get the best of me? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 729	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:01:00 - [294] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Either way Lower speed of the three others amarr logi will be base like. Give significantly more Stamina and Stam Regen to all logis to keep up with their focus group via. Option A: Take 1 equip and 1 tank slot away from all logistics and give them a side arm Option B: Give amarr 1 equip and 1 tank slot and take away side arm Option C: Rename Amarr Logi to Amarr Medic create three new suits for the new class featuring side arms, improved survivability, and hp restore focus equipment and skill books and create a new amarr logi inline with option b. Hang on, this is going in a weird direction now. What is the underlining problem with 1 race having this diversity here? Has there been internal discussion about how hard it it to balance the diversity and this being a glaring example of something that is not cookie cutter? Are we trying to simplify the roles so that they are less complicated to develop for? This kind of makes since thinking back to the keynote talking about legion dropsuits that almost drew flying tomatoes from the crowd. YouTube
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15841	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:03:00 - [295] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Look at it this way. If I give all assaults +1 equipment slot; where does that put the amarr logi??? With 1 extra equipment slots and still with a sidearm? Look Tron, give up, your support for this change is non existent with the exception of CCP Ratt for some reason. Adding to this point. Lets pretend that all days before day Logistics Class never existed in Dust 514. And for hotfix charlie we're bringing them in. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3562	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:03:00 - [296] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Look at it this way. If I give all assaults +1 equipment slot; where does that put the amarr logi??? facepalm What is the amarr assault giving up in exchange? Candidate for CPM1 Go VOTE! Dust514.com They call me Princess Zatata <3
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3562	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:04:00 - [297] - Quote Also since we're here min logi's should have extra move speed and different hack speed. Do you see where this goes? Candidate for CPM1 Go VOTE! Dust514.com They call me Princess Zatata <3
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3672	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:06:00 - [298] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Either way Lower speed of the three others amarr logi will be base like. Give significantly more Stamina and Stam Regen to all logis to keep up with their focus group via. Option A: Take 1 equip and 1 tank slot away from all logistics and give them a side arm Option B: Give amarr 1 equip and 1 tank slot and take away side arm Option C: Rename Amarr Logi to Amarr Medic create three new suits for the new class featuring side arms, improved survivability, and hp restore focus equipment and skill books and create a new amarr logi inline with option b. Now we're talking! MOAR CHOICES! Ok, everyone votes for C, it goes into hotfix C. Done and done! (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Fire of Prometheus Alpha Response Command 5227	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:07:00 - [299] - Quote 1. When are you fixing the commando colour scheme? (See my sig) 2. DONT REMOVE THE DEFINING FEATURE OF MY AMARR LOGI!!!! I can use all 4 proto commandos ^.^ CCP, at least fix my ck.0 commandos colour scheme...he looks like the Michelin man
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 729	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:08:00 - [300] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Look at it this way. If I give all assaults +1 equipment slot; where does that put the amarr logi??? With 1 extra equipment slots and still with a sidearm? Look Tron, give up, your support for this change is non existent with the exception of CCP Ratt for some reason. Adding to this point. Lets pretend that all days before day Logistics Class never existed in Dust 514. And for hotfix charlie we're bringing them in. Ok, Stand by, I'm going to re answer your other question because I may see where you are going with this. YouTube

Riptalis Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 33	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:10:00 - [301] - Quote Need fix for vehicle collision damage! Logistics ak.0 ADS Pilot PSN: Riptalis
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 732	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:15:00 - [302] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Either way Lower speed of the three others amarr logi will be base like. Give significantly more Stamina and Stam Regen to all logis to keep up with their focus group via. Option A: Take 1 equip and 1 tank slot away from all logistics and give them a side arm Option B: Give amarr 1 equip and 1 tank slot and take away side arm Option C: Rename Amarr Logi to Amarr Medic create three new suits for the new class featuring side arms, improved survivability, and hp restore focus equipment and skill books and create a new amarr logi inline with option b. This does point out an interesting deficiency in the difference between a combat medic/engineer and a full on support medic/engineer. I was losing my mind because you are removing a class. I took the route of skilling multiple Logis so that I could play the role of multiple forms of combat/support medic/engineer. IF the Minmatar had the option of a Logistics suit that had the same slot layouts as the Amarr Logi, I would've skilled it instead. However, I would not want to give up my Min Logi as he is right now for a 'Combat Medic Min Logi' if the Amarr Logi was still available. See where I'm going with this? Also, another reason for the 'emotion' here is that these changes are not fixing the Assault. There are plenty of things that could be done to the Assault class that nerfing the Logi class will not fix. And for the love of god realize that Logi's need SPEED, not stamina, SPEED. I need to get from HERE to ...... HERE fast, not HERE to ........................................... HERE Slow. YouTube
Zelda Harkinian Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 38	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:18:00 - [303] - Quote wow, rattati. I love you. these are all awesome ideas. I really like codebreakers being moved to high slot, and Amarr scouts getting some love (even though I play nothing but caldari). I'll be interested to see what you change with CalScouts, but I've got no doubt it will help further balance the game. One thing though, if Logis are getting a reduction in speed, I think it is only fair to give them a small buff in HP and defense. They're already sitting ducks most of the time. Also, and maybe I don't understand, but it seem to me like you're going to make it harder for a logi to run a cloak. I don't think this is a good idea. One of the videos that made me want to try dust showed how you could use different suits to run different roles with different success. It starts with a scout sniping. That seems smart because scouts are all sneaky and stuff. But then someone sneaks up and kills the scout fast. Then it does the same thing, only a heavy is the one sniping. the heavy has enough hp that it notices someone shooting, turns around and kills the attacker. It's this level of customization that I love and I feel like restricting an item to just one suit (with the exception of heavy weapons) is a step back in the customization we were all promised. So if scouts can run two equipment and be a pseudo medic, why can't a logi run a cloak and be a pseudo scout? Also, I don't see a problem with Amarr logi having a sidearm. I don't run them though, so maybe it is op, but I doubt it. let them keep their sidearm. Anyways, thanks for reading. Can't wait for the next update. ^_^
Terram Nenokal Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 346	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:22:00 - [304] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Assault buff, possibly a slight speed increase. Reduce Logi speed slightly Please please PLEASE do not change the speed of the assault or the logistics suits. A tanked out Gallente assault is currently marginally faster than a minmatar logi unless the logi sacrifices something. I can't speak for other combos because I have limited experience, but there is a delicate balance between these two suits. Changing the speeds will screw with how a squad of assaults and logis that are trying to work together. The assault buffs sound good, but the extra speed really isn't necessary, and logis are already really slow. CCP Rattati wrote: * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS If you have to pick one, pick the later. Especially since you're buffing installations. CCP Rattati wrote: * Passive Scan sharing with squads I read the other thread asking if passives should be removed from squad vision. I think you should leave them how they are and maybe tweak the effectiveness of passive scans in general. Something like standing still reduces your sig and firing increases it. This would add more strategy to how you counter scans with all suits, and give more of a reason to use active scans over passives since they become less reliable, but still maintain their same functionality within a squad. Also if you remove squad vision, you're removing an aspect of team play from the game and promoting soloing. I strongly believe this game's mechanics should reward working together. CCP Rattati wrote: * Small rail range compared to sniper range What does this mean? Please clarify. Great ideas here though, that's my 0.2 ISK.
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 735	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:40:00 - [305] - Quote Aaaaand for my third complaint. Here I am trying my best to make Ambush Vehicle Hunting a thing and even giving Advice on how to do it, and your going to strip the rest of my hunting grounds? Vehicle Hunting in Skirm and Dom is not all that fun. They are way more avoidable in that mode, and the game is about objectives, not kills. I am not a pilot (other than LAVs) but someone made the point that this is not the only FPS with vehicles, but it is the only FPS where vehicles can be your role, and by limiting the places where vehicles can kill or be killed, you are taking away a big part of the fun of this game for a lot of people include me, an infantry only guy. Please reconsider. I thought reducing to two was enough (even though I would prefer it 2 per class e.g. 2 tank, 2 LAV, 2 DS), removing from Ambush was a little extreme, but Ambush mode all together? YouTube
deezy dabest Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers 745	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:42:00 - [306] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. From my comments on this in another thread Quote: When it comes to specialized Amarr logis you really do not want us to have an extra equipment either since it will probably just lead to more uplink spam or carrying extra equipment on top of the uplinks making orbitals that much faster. As long as we are forced to stay in our suit to maintain our bonus we should be able to fight in our suit and that trade off has been made. You may argue that other logis also must stay in their suit to get their bonus but look at what they get. Minmatar get faster rep rate keeping people around them alive longer and more able to fight. Gallente get a scan bonus making everything around them more visible and easier to fight off. Caldari get more ammo and/or armor reps for their self and those around them. Amarr gets people spawning in faster. This does little to help the position of the logi which is where the sidearm comes in. Having a sidearm makes us more able to defend our self while we are forced to stay in our suit to provide our bonus to the team. We pay for this trade off by being able to tank less and carrying less equipment which is perfectly balanced. You stated in an earlier post that having all slot layouts the same was better for balance. Is it really balancing to just make all the suits the same except for a different bonus? The races of New Eden are suppose to have spent time optimizing to their strengths and their enemies weaknesses according to lore and we should stick to this idea. I ask that you also take into consideration those of us who felt robbed by the way the spawn bonus was applied and were forced to adapt to a fighter style suit to keep spawns rolling. If you take away our ability to defend our self because no one on the team has any reason to be around us you will have left us at a total waste of all the work we have done. Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 735	Posted - 2014.07.10 03:51:00 - [307] - Quote Oh and one more point. I like that you are making some changes to turrets, but I think they are the wrong changes. We had turrets with smarter AI for a while and I remember everyone hating it. A change that would really spice things up with turrets would be to give them the hit points of a CRU or Supply Depot. Make them less of a tank target by making them waist half their Ammo by killing just one. Make them worth taking and defending because they are more than just ticking time bombs that 2 forge hits can destroy. YouTube
deezy dabest Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers 745	Posted - 2014.07.10 04:01:00 - [308] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Unfair fall damage calculation Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug I think the sprint glitch / equipment deployment glitch should be added to this as well. Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
Zaria Min Deir Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 740	Posted - 2014.07.10 04:07:00 - [309] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: Oh and one more point. I like that you are making some changes to turrets, but I think they are the wrong changes. We had turrets with smarter AI for a while and I remember everyone hating it. A change that would really spice things up with turrets would be to give them the hit points of a CRU or Supply Depot. Make them less of a tank target by making them waist half their Ammo by killing just one. Make them worth taking and defending because they are more than just ticking time bombs that 2 forge hits can destroy. Yes, this. They shouldn't be amazing at tracking and ultra aggressive when unmanned, but with how easy they are to remove at the moment, they really have no purpose and might as well not be there in the first place. Currently they really do only exist to give tankers easy extra WPs. Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 318	Posted - 2014.07.10 04:09:00 - [310] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Brush Master wrote: Would like more details on making logis all the same number of equipment slots. How many slots are you going to get? As someone that runs support logi almost all the time, for pub matches, 3 can get you by but for PC battles 4 allows you to be a full support logi with all areas you can support with. +1 on scaled wp for injector. Ok, I can see the confusion brewing, logi slots PER tier will be the same, 3, for ADV, 4 for PRO etc. Amarr sidearm is changed to Equipment slot and another slot added to bring them to the same total number of slots as other races at all tiers. That's fine. But why the proposed Logi speed nerf? Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel. Cross Atu for CPM1

bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 318	Posted - 2014.07.10 04:14:00 - [311] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The Amarr scout will have a natural low range high precision scan, moving slowly and tanking because of close proximity. The Gallente scout will be the dampener master, being able to be unscannable by sacrificing a lot of slots. The Caldari scout will be the natural long range, low ehp hunter. All of them have the ability to change either range, dampening or precision to alter their desired utility. You forgot one race (again). Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel. Cross Atu for CPM1
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3221	Posted - 2014.07.10 04:16:00 - [312] - Quote Small rail and Small Blaster turrets are pointless to examine. Realize Small Missile Turrets are the best choice for AV and AI and maybe you'll see where the problem lies Appia Vibbia for CPM1 Empress of Alts
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 319	Posted - 2014.07.10 04:22:00 - [313] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Removing the A Logis sidearm?? Please no! Who is asking for this? This was the best part of this suit and the only reason I skilled it. What is it taking away from? Not the Amarr Assault. Everyone I've read has agreed forever that that except for the slot issue (which was fixed right?) the Amarr Assault was the only Assault that was working as intended (good bonus anyway). Look, I have all 4 Logis, and play all but the Cal, that sidearm is the only reason to play that suit! I'll run a min for the speed and slot layout, or a Gal for the Tank, slot layout and bonus every time over the Amarr Logi, if not for that sidearm. And why would you slow us down?? We already have Massive stamina disadvantages, our speed is required to keep us in support of our close surroundings. Look, buff assaults please, they need it, but not at the expense of the Logis. Give the assaults weapon bonus that make since, give them some more speed and stamina if you thing the amount they have already isn't enough, but don't further nerf the Logis. Remember we took a Massive hit earlier this year with the loss of out rep bonus and nerf to equipment giving us bonuses that tried to lock us into specific roles. Most of us rightfully complained about that. I thought that was enough. Didn't that take us off the nerf bat radar? I don't see massive amounts of threads about the slayer Logis anymore, and I don't see them in game. Now all I see are these death balls of 3 Logis repping each other and 1 or 2 heavies. I think the sad part here is that there isn't more uproar over this because all the old "slayer Logis" had the biggest mouths left for scout suits leaving the real Logis behind to quietly fend for themselves. I'm sorry but our data shows that logis outnumber assaults by a huge margin. Nothing about this change will make logis worse at being logis. Being slower would. You need to be able to keep up with the front line to help there. Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel. Cross Atu for CPM1
Talon Paetznick II Gallente Federation Resistance 27	Posted - 2014.07.10 04:24:00 - [314] - Quote could you perhaps institute a damp bonus for min scouts 2% per level and please let me keep hack speed bonus dust math: getting killed by ion pistol = dropping the soap,useful item= nerfhammer, protostomp= WHY GOD!!!
Hawkin P Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 440	Posted - 2014.07.10 04:27:00 - [315] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All, * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. This is complete BS if I knew this I would of skilled into Amarr Scout not Caldari IDC about a range bonus. Seriously this needs to come with a suit respect for Caldari.
Major General Tiberius Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 10	Posted - 2014.07.10 04:30:00 - [316] - Quote This is why CCP is a joke sometimes getting rid of the amarr logi sidearm but doing nothing to a cloaked shoutguner please get rid of the cloak or making it impossible to fit it with a cloak this makes it seems like no one at CCP plays this game The Real Tiberius
calvin b Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 1693	Posted - 2014.07.10 04:43:00 - [317] - Quote Sounds great. I am a heavy and I approve of all changes for this heavy. I have been trying to run assault more and this makes me feel my time is being well spent. Thanks for listening. This is the way Dust should have been ran in the first place. Lets keep Dust on Console. Closed Beta Vet and Heavy, so no I am not FOTM I am an Antique
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 322	Posted - 2014.07.10 04:52:00 - [318] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: RKKR wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: there are some still arguing a tone down on the gal scout. As for a delay on most logi related things to delta I can see this being feasible however slot parity needs to go ahead and go through as soon as possible to help with the conversation when it comes time to discuss it in hopes that suits will be much closer to intention by then. Please do continue on the arguing on the gal scout, it's ridiculous that they are unscannable with that amount of HP, that last part is certainly not the goal of a scout role especially if CCP wants to make assault suits more attractive. What is really the intention of the logi? Can it fullfill that intention with crap stamina/speed? ... Anyway I'm just going to wait on a reply from one of the DEVs on one of my previous comments . Logistics are supposed to be facilitators of combat as time I checked. There is of course chance of change in definition over time but so far they've have been remaining to that goal still. So how would one facilitate combat if one could not keep up with combat? Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel. Cross Atu for CPM1
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3230	Posted - 2014.07.10 04:59:00 - [319] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: RKKR wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: there are some still arguing a tone down on the gal scout. As for a delay on most logi related things to delta I can see this being feasible however slot parity needs to go ahead and go through as soon as possible to help with the conversation when it comes time to discuss it in hopes that suits will be much closer to intention by then. Please do continue on the arguing on the gal scout, it's ridiculous that they are unscannable with that amount of HP, that last part is certainly not the goal of a scout role especially if CCP wants to make assault suits more attractive. What is really the intention of the logi? Can it fullfill that intention with crap stamina/speed? ... Anyway I'm just going to wait on a reply from one of the DEVs on one of my previous comments . Logistics are supposed to be facilitators of combat as time I checked. There is of course chance of change in definition over time but so far they've have been remaining to that goal still. So how would one facilitate combat if one could not keep up with combat? Magic. But this isn't a fantasy setting, so Space Magic! Appia Vibbia for CPM1 Empress of Alts
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 323	Posted - 2014.07.10 05:18:00 - [320] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: So, you are basically buffing 2 logis, and slightly nerfing all of them? Is the Amarr logi now going to be slower than a Min Commado? The Min Logi already is the second lowest HP suit in the game, and you are going to make it even slower? Por que? The low HP suits have at least been marginally faster than the rest. It's hard enough to outrun an HMG as a Min Logi, and now I'm going to be slower, while everyone else is faster AND has higher eHP? I'm so confused by this logic.... The logic seems to be assaults are garbage and people use logis more, so we have to make logis worse than assaults are. 12 pages of this and I havent seen any other reason... I dont think we need to make logis just plain out worse than assaults; just not as desired for attack in comparison to assaults. Assaults should be superior in pressing the enemy Logis should be superior in pressing their allies forward. And a PG/CPU buff isnt going to do it. As long as a Scrambler is the same on a logi as it is on an assault, nothing will change. The assaults need a real bonus, a reason to be used. As long as logis have the same damage output and more equipment, they will be the go to medium frame. The issue is not logis, its assaults. I totally disagree with this. The issue isn't that logis are better at kiling than assaults. It is that scouts are better logis and killers than either of the med. frames. The bonuese put into place need to help assaults compete with scouts from a killing point of view and logis be more competetive from a support point of view. So... Nerf scouts? Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel. Cross Atu for CPM1

1st Lieutenant Tiberius 0uter.Heaven 2046	Posted - 2014.07.10 05:35:00 - [321] - Quote Instead of doing what you suggest for Ambush and Ambush OMS simply split them into 2 different game modes, if possible. So the 4 game modes would be Skirmish, Domination, Ambush and Ambush OMS. This way we would probably see squads who like to run with dedicated pilots in OMS and more intense infantry based combat happen in regular ambush, we would most likely see a lot of AV specialist move to OMS to hunt down said pilots. Overall interesting changes, looking forward to see what you do with the Assaults, I am excited to see it become viable in PC again The Sinwarden of 0uter.Heaven
MINA Longstrike 994	Posted - 2014.07.10 05:47:00 - [322] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Look at it this way. If I give all assaults +1 equipment slot; where does that put the amarr logi??? With 1 extra equipment slots and still with a sidearm? Look Tron, give up, your support for this change is non existent with the exception of CCP Ratt for some reason. Or maybe I am not letting my emotions get the best of me? I will say it again and again and again. The Amarr (and caldari) logistics bonuses are based on STAYING ALIVE - if you die the bonus goes poof, it is because of this that they need their sidearm. Caldari nanohives fit right in with their eve warfare doctrine of 'Siege Warfare' where they take a position, fortify it and fight from there. Amarr drop uplinks (somewhat) fit with their eve warfare doctrine of 'Armored Warfare', where they push slowly and steadily forward with very short reinforcement routes. Minmatar rep tools fit well with their eve warfare doctrine of 'Skirmish Warfare', where they hit you with a blinding hail of bullets from two or more people who either don't drop and are repped up immediately, or take a bit of damage and can re-engage quickly due to the reps. Gallente Scanners fit well with their eve warfare dotrine of 'information warfare' where they hit you with a scan and then use that information within their squad to make their next set of decisions. Two of these classes are very focused on active equipment bonuses that mean they often have a tool in their hands rather than a weapon. These should be the guys who give up their sidearm. Two of these classes are very focused on 'passive equipment' that only remains exceptionally beneficial while they're alive and allows them to aid their squads with supporting gunfire. These should be the guys who have a sidearm in order to defend themselves as sometimes they need to stray from their squads. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Taylor Badasz 183	Posted - 2014.07.10 05:50:00 - [323] - Quote Hopefully this gets seen,but If the Amarr logi gets the sidearm removed could we have the repair tool binded to R2/quick switch? I would love this. (Logi only) Or maybe have the Repair tool in the LW slot? Lazer focused...
Repe Susi Rautaleijona 1325	Posted - 2014.07.10 06:03:00 - [324] - Quote I can't but just wonder about ADS ISK price reduction. Those flying fortresses are way hard to take down and now you want them to be cheaper? No likey. Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome. ~ Isaac Asimov
Mauren NOON The Exemplars Top Men. 370	Posted - 2014.07.10 06:09:00 - [325] - Quote Hawkin P wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: All, * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. This is complete BS if I knew this I would of skilled into Amarr Scout not Caldari IDC about a range bonus. Seriously this needs to come with a suit respect for Caldari. Give Amarr the range, let caldari keep the precision. I actually agree...I want amarr scout to have range...let caldari keep precision Scr and commando enthusiast. A commando is not just a suit, but a way of life... "The only thing to fear is fear itself"
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3235	Posted - 2014.07.10 06:15:00 - [326] - Quote Mauren NOON wrote: Hawkin P wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: All, * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. This is complete BS if I knew this I would of skilled into Amarr Scout not Caldari IDC about a range bonus. Seriously this needs to come with a suit respect for Caldari. Give Amarr the range, let caldari keep the precision. I actually agree...I want amarr scout to have range...let caldari keep precision There isn't a feasibly way to balance these without making the Gallente Scout OP. Defer to the barbershop if you wish for more info, discussions starts on page 840 and continues to 848. Though it'd be best to wait to see if Rattati responds to all these changes later today to see what's stuck and what's changed on a conceptual level. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 Empress of Alts
Mauren NOON The Exemplars Top Men. 371	Posted - 2014.07.10 06:20:00 - [327] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Mauren NOON wrote: Hawkin P wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: All, * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. This is complete BS if I knew this I would of skilled into Amarr Scout not Caldari IDC about a range bonus. Seriously this needs to come with a suit respect for Caldari. Give Amarr the range, let caldari keep the precision. I actually agree...I want amarr scout to have range...let caldari keep precision There isn't a feasibly way to balance these without making the Gallente Scout OP. Defer to the barbershop if you wish for more info, discussions starts on page 840 and continues to 848. Though it'd be best to wait to see if Rattati responds to all these changes later today to see what's stuck and what's changed on a conceptual level. That's true but I would rather have 360 scans with long range than a narrow strong precision scan. Let cal keep their 360 precision scans Scr and commando enthusiast. A commando is not just a suit, but a way of life... "The only thing to fear is fear itself"
FabryX10 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 108	Posted - 2014.07.10 06:20:00 - [328] - Quote @CCP Rattati Please fix shields! https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=165734&find=unread
Darth-Carbonite GIO Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 675	Posted - 2014.07.10 06:31:00 - [329] - Quote aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote: Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: If they want to encourage teamwork, they would add a 15% PGU/CPU reduction to the fitting cost of side turrets per level in ADS skill, in addition to the 2% damage boost, along with a slight buff to the base PGU/CPU of ships. Sure, that might let you fit a turret more easily, but it could also just be used to stack even more HP by the same solo pilots everyone seems to hate. While I like the idea of more fitting space, I would much rather see gunners get benefits for the millions of skill points they have invested like they do right now. Comimg from someome who is a solo pilot people hate I can only respect the homesty of this opinion. And instead of viewing such a statement with cynicism I think we must seriously consider this. Darth is a great solo pilot. So if he is advocating for more role for side gunners I think that is admirable even if in the end such a thing is truly self serving it sounds honest. Thanks mate Purchase Aurum Today!
Mossellia Delt Militaires Sans Jeux 1577	Posted - 2014.07.10 06:32:00 - [330] - Quote Could we also get a few pg off of kincats, it would help min scouts out. Delt for CPM1 Moss-delt on skype

Mauren NOON The Exemplars Top Men. 372	Posted - 2014.07.10 06:35:00 - [331] - Quote Mossellia Delt wrote: Could we also get a few pg off of kincats, it would help min scouts out. I agree with this. Kin-kats are way too pg expensive Scr and commando enthusiast. A commando is not just a suit, but a way of life... "The only thing to fear is fear itself"
Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 274	Posted - 2014.07.10 06:43:00 - [332] - Quote Anyone claiming that Logistics class need a nerf because of slayer logistics users please leave this thread now. The slayer logistics died post 1.7 or when 1.7 dropped. Pre 1.7 it was on the rage because the assaults were horrible. Just throwing that out there...... Instead of nerfing the Logistics and the actual Logistics LogiBro users how about...oh i don't know....BUFF THE FREAKING ASSAULT CLASS!?!?!?!?!!?!? ANYWAYS CCP Rattati do not decrease the Logistics speed. They are slow post 1.8 to keep up with squads to give out needs such as nano hives, repairing armor, reviving downed teammates, and a lot more. Also keep in mind that we live in the DUST world of scouts and heavys. Giving the scouts the additional equipment slot means that they can play pseudo logistics while already making the assaults look pointless at the same time. Instead of a nerf making the already baited logistics class easier bait by scouts and heavys, how about a buff for one? Let me give you a rundown of my proto Minmatar logistics fit and yes I Logibro: Logistics mk.057,690 Enhanced Shield Extender2,610 Enhanced Shield Extender2,610 Enhanced Shield Extender2,610 Enhanced Shield Extender2,610 Enhanced Cardiac Regulator1,935 Complex Kinetic Catalyzer2,955 Complex Armor Repairer5,595 Enhanced Armor Plates2,415 Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle77,280 Flux Grenade600 Core Focused Repair Tool35,415 Wiyrkomi Triage Nanohive28,335 Allotek Nanohive (R)28,335 Nanite Injector600 ISK Estimated Cost:~ 251,595 And my Suits stats after skill bonuses and such are added: CPU 470/ 511 gF PG 102 / 102 kW Shield 112.5 [332.5] HP Armor 187.5 [308.5] HP No icon eHP 300 [641] HP Shield Recharge Rate 20 HP/s Shield Recharge Delay 5 s Shield Dep. Rec. Delay 6 [7.02] s Armor Repair Rate 0 [9.38] HP/s Movement Speed 5 [4.8] m/s Strafe Speed 4.5 [4.32] m/s Sprint Speed 7.35 [7.95] m/s Stamina 183.75 [281.14] Stamina Recovery Rate 47.25 [87.32] /s Scan Profile 45 dB Scan Precision 41.4 dB Scan Radius 19.5 m Melee Damage 110 HP Hack Speed Factor 1.38 Frame Class 0 Dropsuit Race 0 Dropsuit Role 0 High-Slot Modules 4 Small Capacity Granades 1 Equipment 4 Low-Slot Modules 4 Light Weapons 1 why ccp?
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 158	Posted - 2014.07.10 07:07:00 - [333] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Look at it this way. If I give all assaults +1 equipment slot; where does that put the amarr logi??? With 1 extra equipment slots and still with a sidearm? Look Tron, give up, your support for this change is non existent with the exception of CCP Ratt for some reason. Adding to this point. Lets pretend that all days before day Logistics Class never existed in Dust 514. And for hotfix charlie we're bringing them in. Cool, so you won't mind refunding my logi SP's then if they never existed. GÇ£Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.GÇ¥ GÇò Frank Zappa
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15847	Posted - 2014.07.10 07:46:00 - [334] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Look at it this way. If I give all assaults +1 equipment slot; where does that put the amarr logi??? With 1 extra equipment slots and still with a sidearm? Look Tron, give up, your support for this change is non existent with the exception of CCP Ratt for some reason. Adding to this point. Lets pretend that all days before day Logistics Class never existed in Dust 514. And for hotfix charlie we're bringing them in. Cool, so you won't mind refunding my logi SP's then if they never existed. If resources allow I wouldn't mind asking for it; but like I said if only resources allowed... CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10764	Posted - 2014.07.10 07:48:00 - [335] - Quote Whenever I see a Ratatti post, I smile. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 119	Posted - 2014.07.10 07:53:00 - [336] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All, * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. At the current state of the game, i use a Gallente Logi and i am constantly being 'outrun' by heavies. I seriously struggle to keep up with heavies who squad with me... If your lowering our speed even more, how are we meant to keep up with our guys? Granted we carry a lot of equipment.. but i think it's a tad insane that we can't outrun heavies these days considering the amount of armour they are using. As an aside... i generally stack the armour with no movement penalty in my low's, simply due to the fact if i stack the standard plates of each tier.. i just can't keep up with the squad. Rattati, i think you guys need to do some internal testing related to speed balancing of the suits, testing with differing armour low slot setups.. As an aside.. if any speed nerf would be needed.. it would be on the scout / assault to reduce how bad the strafing issue of modded controllers is. Personally.. I think the 'most' important thing you could do, would be to add some validation to user input.. - If the fire button is pressed faster than a 'human speed tolerance' then you don't call the fire routine.. (i.e. you've detected they are using autofire.. so don't allow the fire code to actually run until that human tolerance has passed.). - If you detect a change in direction and acceleration beyond what is humanly possible using a DSJoystick or keyboard keys.. clamp the acceleration values.. or even penalise them.. Strafing speeds are a 'massive' problem. As for aim assist.. pff.. i could go on for days on how badly coded that is... It should certainly not run 'every' time the fire routine runs. Where do these comments come from? .. I've been programming AAA games for many years myself in industry.. and seeing these problems makes me cringe... they MUST be addressed to stop people being able to strafe side to side at impossible speed while 'also' aiming with insane precsion and not missing us. It's no fun to play against 'computer aided movement + computer aided rapid firing + computer dead lock aiming'.... This simply 'must' be addressed to bring 'human skill' back into the game. If you ever want to discuss things like this Rattati so long as your NDA permits it.. then by all means contact me... (can mail me on NanoCleric or DaiReaver and i'll provide my skype details). In some ways i wish i was there so i could change the code myself... but in honesty.. i'd never want to work for CCP with what i've seen.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10766	Posted - 2014.07.10 08:02:00 - [337] - Quote Light weapons are incredibly easy to fit for anything other than Assaults. Now even Assaults won't need that bonus. Don't improve the fitting bonus, REPLACE IT. And replace the racial specific bonuses for Caldari/Gallente, they're both atrocious. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 958	Posted - 2014.07.10 08:12:00 - [338] - Quote RKKR wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I'm sorry but our data shows that logis outnumber assaults by a huge margin. Nothing about this change will make logis worse at being logis. Does your data also shows that people are using those logis as assault suits? Does your data shows that those logi-suits get more kills than the scout-heavy suit? Does your data of kills with a logi-suit approximate the amount of kills that you want the assault suit to make? Does your data also shows that the scout/heavy suits outnumber the assault suit by a huge margin? Yes it will make it worse...people use their amar logi as support combined with AV + a side-arm to protect themselves...gone are those days. I have the feeling that your data doesn't justify these changes. A discussion thread is pointless if you're going to ignore all these questions.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10766	Posted - 2014.07.10 08:13:00 - [339] - Quote 3x Ferroscale + Repper vs 4x Reactives: *Old:* Fer + Rep: 75 * 1.1 * 3 = 247.5 HP 7.5 * 1.25 = 9.375 hp/s 0% speed penalty Gal Assault: 510HP, 11.375hp/s, 7.35m/s sprint Reactives: 60 * 1.1 * 4 = 264 HP 2 * 4 = 8hp/s ~8% speed penalty (not exactly) Gal Assault: 526.5HP, 10hp/s, 6.77m/s sprint speed And also slightly cheaper on CPU/PG New: Gal Assault: 526.5HP, 14hp/s, 6.77m/s Edit: When comparing to normal plates + reppers, this starts to look ugly. How about reducing their speed penalty to 1/1/1? Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 158	Posted - 2014.07.10 08:15:00 - [340] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Hawkings Greenback wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Look at it this way. If I give all assaults +1 equipment slot; where does that put the amarr logi??? With 1 extra equipment slots and still with a sidearm? Look Tron, give up, your support for this change is non existent with the exception of CCP Ratt for some reason. Adding to this point. Lets pretend that all days before day Logistics Class never existed in Dust 514. And for hotfix charlie we're bringing them in. Cool, so you won't mind refunding my logi SP's then if they never existed. If resources allow I wouldn't mind asking for it; but like I said if only resources allowed... Seriously IWS, I don't understand the logic in changing the speed of my logi suits. All I am hearing is that no body uses assault suits, logi gets used more than assault lets change the logi suit. If you look at the battlefield the majority of matches I play consist of heavy & light frames. Logi's are popular because of the boon of heavies & the WP pinata they are. I would rather keep my logi as is than to become slower because then I will have to loose more tank to gain extra speed. Logi's are already bright yellow bullseyes to a half decent squad. Buff assaults first, THEN if it still an issue look at the other suits. Every other suit except logi stands on assaults toes, so why the logi changes ? If I do get my SP refunded, where am I going to go IWS ? Assault, not in its current state or even with those proposed bunus. I'll go scout, whats not to like about speed, regen, ewar, an ability to engage & disengage at will and a smaller hitbox. Oh & I get 2 equipment slots so I can still use a rep tool, links & hives ( scanners, meh, scout are walking scanners ). I love what CCP Rata tat tat ( sry couldn't help it dude ) has been doing & even what is happening with Hotfix Charlie. Yet these logi changes come out of the left field. Please explain to me how this conclusion was reached so I can better understand. GÇ£Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.GÇ¥ GÇò Frank Zappa

Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10766	Posted - 2014.07.10 08:22:00 - [341] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Nothing on giving Gallente scout a bonus to damps/amps? I'd also like to see Caldari/Gallente assault suits get a CPU/PG boost. GA scout already has a bonus to damps? It also says increased PG/CPU for Assaults... The damp bonus is useless, the range bonus is useless. kthnxbye Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3855	Posted - 2014.07.10 08:24:00 - [342] - Quote The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. The slowest Logis would still of course move faster than the fastest heavy, something like +0.05 on the Assault or -0.05 on the Logi. So if that's the biggest worry, we have no problem in only buffing the Assault speed. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11333	Posted - 2014.07.10 08:34:00 - [343] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. The slowest Logis would still of course move faster than the fastest heavy, something like +0.05 on the Assault or -0.05 on the Logi. So if that's the biggest worry, we have no problem in only buffing the Assault speed. Please buff assault speed without nerfing logi speed. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10766	Posted - 2014.07.10 08:35:00 - [344] - Quote *Proposed Assault bonuses:* Assault Bonus: +1% damage per level Amarr Bonus: Perfect Minmatar Bonus: Perfect Caldari Bonus: -10% per level to spool up time, -5% per level to kick Gallente Bonus: +1% per level to ROF Amarr: Shoot for longer Minmatar: Shoot for longer Caldari: Start shooting faster and with more accuracy Gallente: Shoot for shorter amounts of time but deal damage quicker (perfect for urban fighters) Commandos have two light weapons, something no other suit can have, so I'm not worried about overlap. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 119	Posted - 2014.07.10 08:39:00 - [345] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. The slowest Logis would still of course move faster than the fastest heavy, something like +0.05 on the Assault or -0.05 on the Logi. So if that's the biggest worry, we have no problem in only buffing the Assault speed. As i already said.. i am 'always' getting outrun by heavies when i'm playing as my Gal Logi with the armor plates with no movement penalty.. ferroscale if i remember right. So something else is going on there if your stats don't show that's the case... Do some internal testing. If i use the basic armour plates of any tier.. then i am constantly losing my link to heavies and having to sprint to keep up with them a lot. Also Rattati, please ensure you read my previous reply: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2250883#post2250883 post 316, page 16.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10766	Posted - 2014.07.10 08:41:00 - [346] - Quote NanoCleric wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. The slowest Logis would still of course move faster than the fastest heavy, something like +0.05 on the Assault or -0.05 on the Logi. So if that's the biggest worry, we have no problem in only buffing the Assault speed. As i already said.. i am 'always' getting outrun by heavies when i'm playing as my Gal Logi with the armor plates with no movement penalty.. ferroscale if i remember right. So something else is going on there if your stats don't show that's the case... Do some internal testing. If i use the basic armour plates of any tier.. then i am constantly losing my link to heavies and having to sprint to keep up with them a lot. Pops head out Heavies only need one kin cat to outrun logis. And that's not because Logis are too slow, it's because Heavies are too fast. 900DPS + 1500HP should not run at 6.5m/s~ -_- Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 119	Posted - 2014.07.10 08:43:00 - [347] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: NanoCleric wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. The slowest Logis would still of course move faster than the fastest heavy, something like +0.05 on the Assault or -0.05 on the Logi. So if that's the biggest worry, we have no problem in only buffing the Assault speed. As i already said.. i am 'always' getting outrun by heavies when i'm playing as my Gal Logi with the armor plates with no movement penalty.. ferroscale if i remember right. So something else is going on there if your stats don't show that's the case... Do some internal testing. If i use the basic armour plates of any tier.. then i am constantly losing my link to heavies and having to sprint to keep up with them a lot. Pops head out Heavies only need one kin cat to outrun logis. And that's not because Logis are too slow, it's because Heavies are too fast. 900DPS + 1500HP should not run at 6.5m/s~ -_- ^^ That'll be why then, thanks for pointing that out Cat. Kinda crap to think the only way to combat this then would be to have to use one ourselves too...
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 750	Posted - 2014.07.10 08:44:00 - [348] - Quote * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. - Needed for a long time! Nice to see it's being considered for charlie. Not stopping player playing how they want just making it difficult for OP situations. * Installation buff, with a range and AI review, reduction of granted WP for destruction. - Awesome! Stops them becoming farms at the start of a match - Just a thought tough, would it be possible to make turret skills apply to these turrets? Still give's options in OMS with the removal of Tanks but makes them much less of a problem? * Blaster turret accuracy improvements - Not sure this is needed but hay-ho I'm no tanker! * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. - This is a nice bonus, but we don't really need it after the hacking skill book. Something for speed would be nicer and it would compliment our low eHP. * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement - Always a fan of more NK improvements! * Small rail range compared to sniper range - Love it, needs a reduction! * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP - Cooooooool! * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s - Yarp! * OB WP doubled - With resulting WP spread out across squad? * LP payout increased x-fold - Nice. * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS - Great! May I suggest removing the vehicles completely while also removing standard ambush (don't see the point of it without vehicles in OMS) OR remove vehicles completely and taking the installation buff comment into consideration? Still under tech evaluation * Passive Scan sharing with squads - Not so keen on having, personally. Just going to make a cal scouts somewhat of a win button in squads and PC. * Reduce ISK cost of early skill books for new players or free - This is a decent change for the news! - Make them free, but with some of the basic skills already purchased for them (kinda like an unwritten guide?) Hotfix Delta or later * Sidearm rebalance - Yey! * Sniper Rifle review - Mmmmmeeaahhh... ok.. * Efficacy bonuses - Yey! * Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity - Yey! Twitter MajLagSpike CPM Application
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 159	Posted - 2014.07.10 09:03:00 - [349] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. The slowest Logis would still of course move faster than the fastest heavy, something like +0.05 on the Assault or -0.05 on the Logi. So if that's the biggest worry, we have no problem in only buffing the Assault speed. This is not the biggest worry & neither have I said such. I am having trouble comprehending 'why ?' for any of the logi changes. If this: CCP Rattati wrote: The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. is the only reason, then it is a poor one. Again give the assault bonus a look at PROPERLY as opposed to half arsing it & screwing with logi's which I think are in an ok position, ( the Caldari logi is one I don't see often tbh ) My main points : Assault bonus aren't desirable, otherwise you would see them more often. Assaults have no niche, ALL suits tread on assault suits territory. Amarr side arm slot loss, it was touted as a combat logi ( same as the scout suit ). I like the fact that it can be aggressive & can look after itself. Logi slot homogenisation, just have one logi suit if they are all to be the same. Reduced logi speed, the battlefield is a much more dynamic / fast / fluid place. As a logi I have to be able to keep up. I am no use to anyone if I am coming in behind everyone else & then got SG'd in the bank by flanking scouts. More logis than assaults, well sorry, but duh !! Assault suit bonus, the ever increasing population of heavy suits & the fact that logi can fulfill a role on the battlefield is not the logi suits fault. Also heavy & scout are BETTER than an assault. So why run an assault suit ? I am not trying to be horrible but I still have not had a valid reason why logi should bear the responsibility to make assaults look a better option. Seriously NO ONE has explained why apart from : There are more logis than assaults, there are more anything than assault suits on the field. The logi shouldn't move as fast as an assault, I know heavies that move faster than logis so logic should dictate that heavies need a speed nerf, yes ? ( not actually wanting a heavy speed nerf ) No other logi has a side arm, but it looses a slot to negate that. Again sorry if it appears like ranting, need coffee GÇ£Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.GÇ¥ GÇò Frank Zappa
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 159	Posted - 2014.07.10 09:06:00 - [350] - Quote NanoCleric wrote: Cat Merc wrote: NanoCleric wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. The slowest Logis would still of course move faster than the fastest heavy, something like +0.05 on the Assault or -0.05 on the Logi. So if that's the biggest worry, we have no problem in only buffing the Assault speed. As i already said.. i am 'always' getting outrun by heavies when i'm playing as my Gal Logi with the armor plates with no movement penalty.. ferroscale if i remember right. So something else is going on there if your stats don't show that's the case... Do some internal testing. If i use the basic armour plates of any tier.. then i am constantly losing my link to heavies and having to sprint to keep up with them a lot. Pops head out Heavies only need one kin cat to outrun logis. And that's not because Logis are too slow, it's because Heavies are too fast. 900DPS + 1500HP should not run at 6.5m/s~ -_- ^^ That'll be why then, thanks for pointing that out Cat. Kinda crap to think the only way to combat this then would be to have to use one ourselves too... I use a kin cat on my minnie logi for that reason, have done for a while. Well ever since heavy racial parity & heavies found that they can move fast, still have a good HP pool & destroy people with the HMG. GÇ£Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.GÇ¥ GÇò Frank Zappa


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3861	Posted - 2014.07.10 09:08:00 - [351] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. The slowest Logis would still of course move faster than the fastest heavy, something like +0.05 on the Assault or -0.05 on the Logi. So if that's the biggest worry, we have no problem in only buffing the Assault speed. This is not the biggest worry & neither have I said such. I am having trouble comprehending 'why ?' for any of the logi changes. If this: CCP Rattati wrote: The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. is the only reason, then it is a poor one. Again give the assault bonus a look at PROPERLY as opposed to half arsing it & screwing with logi's which I think are in an ok position, ( the Caldari logi is one I don't see often tbh ) My main points : Assault bonus aren't desirable, otherwise you would see them more often. Assaults have no niche, ALL suits tread on assault suits territory. Amarr side arm slot loss, it was touted as a combat logi ( same as the scout suit ). I like the fact that it can be aggressive & can look after itself. Logi slot homogenisation, just have one logi suit if they are all to be the same. Reduced logi speed, the battlefield is a much more dynamic / fast / fluid place. As a logi I have to be able to keep up. I am no use to anyone if I am coming in behind everyone else & then got SG'd in the bank by flanking scouts. More logis than assaults, well sorry, but duh !! Assault suit bonus, the ever increasing population of heavy suits & the fact that logi can fulfill a role on the battlefield is not the logi suits fault. Also heavy & scout are BETTER than an assault. So why run an assault suit ? I am not trying to be horrible but I still have not had a valid reason why logi should bear the responsibility to make assaults look a better option. Seriously NO ONE has explained why apart from : There are more logis than assaults, there are more anything than assault suits on the field. The logi shouldn't move as fast as an assault, I know heavies that move faster than logis so logic should dictate that heavies need a speed nerf, yes ? ( not actually wanting a heavy speed nerf ) No other logi has a side arm, but it looses a slot to negate that. Again sorry if it appears like ranting, need coffee To recap, you don't like the speed change, that I have already said probably won't happen, and the changing of 1 sidearm to an EQ and a high/or low slot on the A-logi? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 159	Posted - 2014.07.10 09:12:00 - [352] - Quote CCP Rattati, sorry I missed where you said the speed change probably won't happen : ( And no I do not like the change of the side arm slot to an EQ, high or low slot. I would be happy to keep the side arm. My bonus is for uplinks which only works when I am alive & in a an Amarr logi suit. So I would like to stay alive long enough to do that, which may mean I need to use my side arm. GÇ£Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.GÇ¥ GÇò Frank Zappa
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10768	Posted - 2014.07.10 09:13:00 - [353] - Quote A small idea I had. How about increasing light weapon fitting requirements by 35%, and giving Assaults/Commandos a corresponding fitting reduction? Sidearms become a low CPU/PG option for non slayer suits, Heavies will be less likely to use those with the CPU/PG reduction and Heavy weapon fitting bonuses. This makes Sidearm vs Light weapon an actual choice, rather than some fun fitting you run once in a while. Non slayer suits that want the same slaying power would have to do sacrifices, just like non scouts trying to fit cloaks. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3861	Posted - 2014.07.10 09:15:00 - [354] - Quote That's sort of where we see this going, rather than fitting penalties. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10768	Posted - 2014.07.10 09:15:00 - [355] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: That's sort of where we see this going, rather than fitting penalties. So yes to my idea? Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 159	Posted - 2014.07.10 09:19:00 - [356] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: A small idea I had. How about increasing light weapon fitting requirements by 35%, and giving Assaults/Commandos a corresponding fitting reduction? Sidearms become a low CPU/PG option for non slayer suits, Heavies will be less likely to use those with the CPU/PG reduction and Heavy weapon fitting bonuses. This makes Sidearm vs Light weapon an actual choice, rather than some fun fitting you run once in a while. Non slayer suits that want the same slaying power would have to do sacrifices, just like non scouts trying to fit cloaks. This makes sense. At the moment I don't have to sacrifice much to fit a weapon. Make the fitting skills worth skilling into for other suits GÇ£Without deviation from the norm, progress is not possible.GÇ¥ GÇò Frank Zappa
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3539	Posted - 2014.07.10 09:20:00 - [357] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: That's sort of where we see this going, rather than fitting penalties. So yes to my idea? I don't like your idea. Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt! Changes to the A-logi is the embodiment ofCCPLogic
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11334	Posted - 2014.07.10 09:20:00 - [358] - Quote Still wish you would just provide a straight answer on that game mode thing. My gut says it will never happen, but I need you to mercy-kill my hope so I can move on, otherwise I can't let it go. Simply typing "no" would suffice. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10768	Posted - 2014.07.10 09:21:00 - [359] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: That's sort of where we see this going, rather than fitting penalties. So yes to my idea? I don't like your idea. Why not? Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3862	Posted - 2014.07.10 09:27:00 - [360] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: That's sort of where we see this going, rather than fitting penalties. So yes to my idea? This is something we have been discussing internally for some time now as a way to encourage certain fittings, instead of enforcing them by let's say only letting heavies use heavy weapons, etc. which is not in line with our philosophy. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11337	Posted - 2014.07.10 09:32:00 - [361] - Quote Me and Cat have suggested revisions to some of the current assault bonuses and have made our suggestions, are there any plans to do any assault bonus changes in Charlie or future hotfixes? if so, can you share any? Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Sum1ne Else G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1255	Posted - 2014.07.10 09:49:00 - [362] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. * Installation buff, with a range and AI review, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement * Small rail range compared to sniper range * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS * Reduced ADS ISK price Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. - GREAT * A slight HMG heat buildup increase - GREATBut please include a range change 25m effective and 15m optimum * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. - GREAT * Installation buff, with a range and AI review, reduction of granted WP for destruction. - hmm? ok * Blaster turret accuracy improvements - NO COMMENT * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. - AMARR WILL BE OP...REALLY! it will, it has the most Hp and can run for days!!! BS to the precision they are ok * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. - AWESOME * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement - NEEDED * Small rail range compared to sniper range - errr ok then * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. - THIS IS FOOKING BS - LEAVE THE LOGI ALONE, ALL OF THE LOGIS, THE ONLY THING THAT NEEDS ASSISTANCE IS THE CAL, https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=167784&find=unread * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP - NEEDED * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s - hmmm * OB WP doubled - NEEDED * LP payout increased x-fold - NEEDED * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS - JUST REMOVE VEHICLE FROM OMS * Reduced ADS ISK price - NEEDED Impressive? Longest PLC Kill 151.8m - OHK on a Heavy Logi mk.0 - Commando gk.0 - Scout gk.0
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3539	Posted - 2014.07.10 09:58:00 - [363] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: That's sort of where we see this going, rather than fitting penalties. So yes to my idea? I don't like your idea. Why not? It's just one of those ideas that seem blankly stupid to me, no that it couldn't work its just to (me) it wouldn't. Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt! Changes to the A-logi is the embodiment ofCCPLogic
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10768	Posted - 2014.07.10 10:10:00 - [364] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Nocturnal Soul wrote: Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: That's sort of where we see this going, rather than fitting penalties. So yes to my idea? I don't like your idea. Why not? It's just one of those ideas that seem blankly stupid to me, no that it couldn't work its just to (me) it wouldn't. I need a reason. Just saying "blankly stupid" doesn't really work without an actual reason. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Mortedeamor Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 1799	Posted - 2014.07.10 10:20:00 - [365] - Quote Harpyja wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: Why remove the amarr logis sidearm? It adds variety to the game while remaining balanced. It seems like losing an equipment slot for a sidearm slot is a fair trade. This will also probably anger amarr logis who have heavily invested in sidearms. Also, don't remove ambush oms, remove regular ambush. 50 clones go far too fast. Just remove vehicles and squads from ambush oms and call it ambush. Only other thing I disagree on is giving the small rail turret a range buff. They are already in a good place and this could push them into the overpowered category. I agree on the Amarr logi. It gives variety. Got nothing to say on ambush. The only thing small rails need is improved hit detection. I noticed today when I started having fun with a Methana with a railgun that quite too often my aim (dot) will be right on target but my shots instead go off to the side somewhere, even while I was stationary. I only noticed this happen when I was shooting at range. RedPencil wrote: * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3% ? HP increase or speed penalty ? BTW: Reactive Plates already out perform by Ferroscale + Repair combo. Want to see more detail on Assault and Scout. I believe Rattati means armor/sec. I've seen Rattati use that notation before for armor/sec. But yes I agree that reactive plates are out-performed by ferroscale+rep. I'd rather use that instead of two reactive plates as they have no speed penalty, about equivalent amounts of armor, and gives much higher rep. personally i hope you pull your heads out of your asses BEFORE you implement this ccp...this screams OLD CCP mucking up dust..its a terrible uncalled for change that NO ONE ASKED FOR ..and is completely UNNEEDED. you wasting your time doing something thats bad for the game isnt going to fix anything and will just ** the community off thanks for ruining my *** day... you know i was just starting to enjoy dust... first event ive ever been interested in...now i cant even stomach looking at it...knowing that your going to ruin my logi and end your great patch streak...for no *** REASON and just so you know i have al the amar suits...i stomp in my *** assault,..and im one of the best logis...in hard core matches i can barely pull even... dont go nerfing my suit...just because of occasional scrub stomps speed tanking the amar logi costs you EVERYTHING at the gain of a tiny ammount of speed less than anyone else IF the amar logi has time to use both her/his guns on you your a *** scrub and deserved it. if your ina heavy an assault...an scout....and you get wasted by an amar logi...because they hada side arm..you ***** suck at dust what that means is you with a high dps high ehp higher speed suit..could not take down one of the weakest suits in dust oh and just so you know i run my amar logi with 3 dmg mods...and 2 weapons because the only thing the amar logi has over the other logis is attack power..thats it...it relies on gungame...i prefer it that way..we all do...it hit the fuckin nail on the head...the amr logi is so fuckin amarian in style...and your gunna take that away even with my rig..im still slower than most suits...oh and i have less ehp than ANY SCOUT ...all i got is placement aiming and 2 guns... leave my logi alone it is fine...no one wants this..you suck for even considering it. its a terrible idea you have here
Izlare Lenix Vengeance Unbound 756	Posted - 2014.07.10 10:28:00 - [366] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: How is an Amarr Scout with two high slots supposed to utilize a bonus to scan precision? With 2 precision mods? Depends on the numbers, but currently there isn't much that can avoid a double precision Cal scout. Well... at least you wont have to give up your primary tank to get the better scan bonuses. At least the Amarr will be able to scan a double damp Cal Scout. This is my concern. A cal scout has to sacrifice its primary tank in order to be good at scanning. If an amarr scout can use two precision AND stack armor plates that will be way more OP that people claim the Cal Scout currently is. Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10768	Posted - 2014.07.10 10:34:00 - [367] - Quote Izlare Lenix wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: How is an Amarr Scout with two high slots supposed to utilize a bonus to scan precision? With 2 precision mods? Depends on the numbers, but currently there isn't much that can avoid a double precision Cal scout. Well... at least you wont have to give up your primary tank to get the better scan bonuses. At least the Amarr will be able to scan a double damp Cal Scout. This is my concern. A cal scout has to sacrifice its primary tank in order to be good at scanning. If an amarr scout can use two precision AND stack armor plates that will be way more OP that people claim the Cal Scout currently is. The Amarr scout is slower, and would have less range. That means the Cal Scout will see him coming. Unless he, ya know, doesn't tank. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 958	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:13:00 - [368] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. You are not differentiating anything, you are making the logi even more crap at it's intended role than it already is just to make one suit more viable again. Good luck with differentiating between Assault and scouts in the next hot fix.
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 159	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:19:00 - [369] - Quote RKKR wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. You are not differentiating anything, you are making the logi even more crap at it's intended role than it already is just to make one suit more viable again. Good luck with differentiating between Assault and scouts in the next hot fix. CCP Rattati wrote: To recap, you don't like the speed change, that I have already said probably won't happen, and the changing of 1 sidearm to an EQ and a high/or low slot on the A-logi? I got this response earlier. GÇ£Their stupidity does not amaze me, its when they're smart that amazes me." GÇò Frank Zappa

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3869	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:22:00 - [370] - Quote Changes made to OP, logi speed not reduced plus some clarificications. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 413	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:23:00 - [371] - Quote RKKR wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. You are not differentiating anything, you are making the logi even more crap at it's intended role than it already is just to make one suit more viable again. Good luck with differentiating between Assault and scouts in the next hot fix. how has he made it more crap at its intended role? i didnt see anything about reducing equipment slots, removing equipment bonuses, or nerfing rep tools. do you even logi bro?

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3869	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:24:00 - [372] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Me and Cat have suggested revisions to some of the current assault bonuses and have made our suggestions, are there any plans to do any assault bonus changes in Charlie or future hotfixes? if so, can you share any? I think that the addition of a slot to Amarr Assault, on top of their high PG/CPU has shown how effective a fitting buff can be. We will be looking better at efficacy bonuses in Delta. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 413	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:28:00 - [373] - Quote i would like to see you give us alternatives to dual tanking. damage mods or hp mods are the only mods that directly support combat. we dont have any other options, so if you ever want to see dual tanking go away, youll need to give us some new toys to play with.
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 958	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:32:00 - [374] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: RKKR wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. You are not differentiating anything, you are making the logi even more crap at it's intended role than it already is just to make one suit more viable again. Good luck with differentiating between Assault and scouts in the next hot fix. how has he made it more crap at its intended role? i didnt see anything about reducing equipment slots, removing equipment bonuses, or nerfing rep tools. do you even logi bro? I'm not wasting time on you if you can't read previous comments, you're probably also one of those guys that thinks running behind a fatsuit is the only thing logis can do.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 413	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:39:00 - [375] - Quote RKKR wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: RKKR wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. You are not differentiating anything, you are making the logi even more crap at it's intended role than it already is just to make one suit more viable again. Good luck with differentiating between Assault and scouts in the next hot fix. how has he made it more crap at its intended role? i didnt see anything about reducing equipment slots, removing equipment bonuses, or nerfing rep tools. do you even logi bro? I'm not wasting time on you if you can't read previous comments, you're probably also one of those guys that thinks running behind a fatsuit is the only thing logis can do. actually no. but idc
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 959	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:39:00 - [376] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: To recap, you don't like the speed change, that I have already said probably won't happen, and the changing of 1 sidearm to an EQ and a high/or low slot on the A-logi? I got this response earlier. What I don't like is that it even crossed your mind to do this. What I don't like is how only certain posts get an answer while other gets ignored. What I don't like is that we have to be okay now that the speed change is cancelled. This just shows that they have no idea about their different roles and are just doing random changes based on feelings rather than their actual data or previous feedback on the forums. Unless they do actually have a longterm plan now, in that case it's better to talk about that instead of only revealing little things. @DeathwindRising: It's really simple if you don't care, just shut up.
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 159	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:40:00 - [377] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Changes made to OP, logi speed not reduced plus some clarificications. Thank You. Is the intent of removing the Amarr logi sidearm to bring all logis in line as merely water carriers for equipment & a support role on the battlefield ? Why the sudden need to change the Amarr logi, is it to bring it in-line with a defined view of the logi for Legion ? GÇ£Their stupidity does not amaze me, its when they're smart that amazes me." GÇò Frank Zappa
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2449	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:46:00 - [378] - Quote A selling point on logi equipment balance at PRO. If passive scans are removed, then it will be the logi's job to scan. Getting that extra scanner at PRO for the amarr and caldari will be helpful.
somuchfail Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:49:00 - [379] - Quote Assaults wont be improved by an EHP increase, its there lack of flexible, agile, frontline role. Cal experience only: My CalScoAssault has lower HP than the assault now but works because it is fast, can do all the assault can and much more: 2 equip slots, has fast shield regen, plus wall hacks (passive scans) To get me to use my CalAssault you need to lower the delay (cal logi has a much better delay than an assault and this is wrong) and increase recharge rate, if assault has no/ crap passive scans make energizers worth fitting. Would prefer Assaults to have better regen than scouts tbh and would make more sense. The other problem you have is: why would I give up 2 equipment slots for 1? I wouldn't
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 160	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:49:00 - [380] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: A selling point on logi equipment balance at PRO. If passive scans are removed, then it will be the logi's job to scan. Getting that extra scanner at PRO for the amarr and caldari will be helpful. That still doesn't make loosing a side arm slot any easier if I have to now go & save SP for proto scanners. GÇ£Their stupidity does not amaze me, its when they're smart that amazes me." GÇò Frank Zappa

Snake Sellors Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 135	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:55:00 - [381] - Quote I don't understand the heavy cpu/pg reduction. I'm a calsent and I already can't full proto fit my proto suit, why is it being made worse? PLEASE if you are going with this make sure you include the heavy weapon fitting bonus and make it a good one. also as you are trying to stop heavies from using light weapons here (i'm assuming) could you at least start looking into some more heavy weapons? at the moment a heavy will only have a choice of two.. its kind of limited.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2449	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:57:00 - [382] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: That's sort of where we see this going, rather than fitting penalties. Plus, good efficacy bonuses to encourage more flavorful playstyles. Define 'flavorful playstyles'? Assuming light weapons get a fitting cost increase across the board, are we talking something like a general assault -6% light weapon fitting cost decrease and an additional -3% racial weapon fitting cost decrease?
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10774	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:00:00 - [383] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Me and Cat have suggested revisions to some of the current assault bonuses and have made our suggestions, are there any plans to do any assault bonus changes in Charlie or future hotfixes? if so, can you share any? I think that the addition of a slot to Amarr Assault, on top of their high PG/CPU has shown how effective a fitting buff can be. We will be looking better at efficacy bonuses in Delta. So are all assaults going to get an extra slot? Also, I love how you're pointing at the Amarr Assault, ya know, the one suit with a half decent bonus Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2449	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:00:00 - [384] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: A selling point on logi equipment balance at PRO. If passive scans are removed, then it will be the logi's job to scan. Getting that extra scanner at PRO for the amarr and caldari will be helpful. That still doesn't make loosing a side arm slot any easier if I have to now go & save SP for proto scanners. This isn't an argument in favor of the logi suit being balanced for a logi role. If your complaint is that "my SP I spent on weapon effectivness now makes my logi less effective as a logi" isn't really valid. The point of the tweak is to make logis play their logi/support role, and assaults be worthwhile in their niche.
Beld Errmon 1761	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:01:00 - [385] - Quote Repe Susi wrote: I can't but just wonder about ADS ISK price reduction. Those flying fortresses are way hard to take down and now you want them to be cheaper? No likey. Fly one every match for a week and tell me what happens to your wallet, i'm thinking you won't likey that either. Pilot - Tanker - FOTM (insert here)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3875	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:02:00 - [386] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: I don't understand the heavy cpu/pg reduction. I'm a calsent and I already can't full proto fit my proto suit, why is it being made worse? PLEASE if you are going with this make sure you include the heavy weapon fitting bonus and make it a good one. also as you are trying to stop heavies from using light weapons here (i'm assuming) could you at least start looking into some more heavy weapons? at the moment a heavy will only have a choice of two.. its kind of limited. the GA sentinel is the worst offender, it will be based on slots and not the same reduction for all races "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10774	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:06:00 - [387] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: I don't understand the heavy cpu/pg reduction. I'm a calsent and I already can't full proto fit my proto suit, why is it being made worse? PLEASE if you are going with this make sure you include the heavy weapon fitting bonus and make it a good one. also as you are trying to stop heavies from using light weapons here (i'm assuming) could you at least start looking into some more heavy weapons? at the moment a heavy will only have a choice of two.. its kind of limited. the GA sentinel is the worst offender, it will be based on slots and not the same reduction for all races Will you ever move PG modules to high slots? Please? Pretty please? Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Tesfa Alem ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 149	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:07:00 - [388] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: A small idea I had. How about increasing light weapon fitting requirements by 35%, and giving Assaults/Commandos a corresponding fitting reduction? Sidearms become a low CPU/PG option for non slayer suits, Heavies will be less likely to use those with the CPU/PG reduction and Heavy weapon fitting bonuses. This makes Sidearm vs Light weapon an actual choice, rather than some fun fitting you run once in a while. Non slayer suits that want the same slaying power would have to do sacrifices, just like non scouts trying to fit cloaks. This is a terrible terrible idea. Logis need to stay alive and in a dust where rail rifles can engage within 80 meters, and HMGs destroy you close range, which should i give up HP or equipment just to be able to shoot back. This would rather encourage me to become a slayer logi. i simply cannot risk my good equipment and suit on 1 side arm, (which would only be either the magsec or smg) so i might as well ditch the equipment and go for kills. Cant we just buff the assaults without destroying the other suits. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. CPM1 Candidate
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 752	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:08:00 - [389] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Well, these changes are certainly interseting. Key pointsI have noticed: The bad: Reducing Heavy PG and CPU is insanely bad. You cannot build a decent heavy suit already without speccing into drupsuit electronics and engineering. And with my minmatar heavy i need every ounce of pg and cpu i can squeeze out of it. I can only imagine its to combat the heavy + lightweapons combination. Why not just a fitting penaly to light weapons on heavy suits instead? Your right I believe it is to combat heavy+light weapons combination! I think thats effectively what they're doing but in a simpler manner. Instead of making it hard to fit light weapons they're making it easier to fit heavy weapons with a pwg/cpu decease. Tesfa Alem wrote: The good: Everything else. Its a bit broad but i GTG. Also: Its a bad sign when the CPM0 refers to switching suits out as you need them as "abuse." I distributed my sp bacause i want to play a variety of roles and having players being flexible to switch out as the situation calls for it is something that should be rewarded, not derided. I do think i should keep my equipment bonuses after the equipment is deployed, but i can live without that. and ratatti players use logis more than assaults because assaults are crap, not because logis are suddenly OP. Maybe "abuse" is the wrong word but I do agree with them, placing a bed of hives and then swapping out to a heavy brick seems like a misuse of a bad mechanic? Twitter MajLagSpike CPM Application
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3863	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:11:00 - [390] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. I still look at the Assault and the Cammando as DPS classes. The Assault suit should inherently do more damage than the logi suit which is focussed on support, and more damage than the Scout suit which gets its damage from using very short range/very high damage, high Alpha weapons. Therefor I still favour a small flat Damage bonus (maybe 1% per level) on top of everything they currently have (as in not take any of the current bonuses away). CCP Rattati wrote: * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. I am fine with a GÇ£slightGÇ¥ increase in HMG heat buildup. Currently I only overhead with a standard HMG when trying to kill a LAV or when shooting at 4 or 5 closely grouped targets. A reduction to Sentinel PC/CPU balanced with a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons would mean that Sentinels would have to make sacrifices to use light weapons. I think that is a good way to keep Sentinels focussed on their role, and not having to consider light weapon usage when looking at Sentinels balance. CCP Rattati wrote: Still under tech evaluation * Disabling passive Scan sharing with squads Is it possible to have different figures for the profile a suits passive scan can pick up and the profile a suit shares on the Tac-Net? Can we set suits to see at a higher precision than what they share? This could allow Scouts to still GÇ£ScoutGÇ¥ and share the position of less stealthy suits, but still allow the stealthy suits to be stealthy without a Scout on the team announcing the position of a dampened enemy Scout to every Sentinel on his team. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

Zaria Min Deir Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 744	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:11:00 - [391] - Quote NanoCleric wrote: Cat Merc wrote: NanoCleric wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. The slowest Logis would still of course move faster than the fastest heavy, something like +0.05 on the Assault or -0.05 on the Logi. So if that's the biggest worry, we have no problem in only buffing the Assault speed. As i already said.. i am 'always' getting outrun by heavies when i'm playing as my Gal Logi with the armor plates with no movement penalty.. ferroscale if i remember right. So something else is going on there if your stats don't show that's the case... Do some internal testing. If i use the basic armour plates of any tier.. then i am constantly losing my link to heavies and having to sprint to keep up with them a lot. Pops head out Heavies only need one kin cat to outrun logis. And that's not because Logis are too slow, it's because Heavies are too fast. 900DPS + 1500HP should not run at 6.5m/s~ -_- ^^ That'll be why then, thanks for pointing that out Cat. Kinda crap to think the only way to combat this then would be to have to use one ourselves too... I think the issue is that they are just comparing the movement speed and sprint speed of a logi to the movement speed and sprint speed of a heavy, respectively. Just the numbers on paper, without consideration for what they mean in practice. Back when heavies ran armour plates instead of kincats a logi could keep up with a heavy that was moving and still rep him. Even if the heavy would sprint in small bursts, the low stamina would mean that they'd not get too far ahead of a nonsprinting logi. Now, you can't keep your reps on a heavy if he sprints even a little bit. And with how spotty the rep tool lock on is, dropping reps, sprinting to catch up, and then trying to get your heavy on a leash again before they take too much damage is frustrating as hell under most circumstances. And some of these heavies really do run fast enough that I can't keep up at all without a kincat or two... >.< Honestly, with the amount of base health and the amount of damage they can put out, it feels kind of ridiculous that heavies are able to reach the kinds of speeds they do. Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 752	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:13:00 - [392] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: I don't understand the heavy cpu/pg reduction. I'm a calsent and I already can't full proto fit my proto suit, why is it being made worse? PLEASE if you are going with this make sure you include the heavy weapon fitting bonus and make it a good one. also as you are trying to stop heavies from using light weapons here (i'm assuming) could you at least start looking into some more heavy weapons? at the moment a heavy will only have a choice of two.. its kind of limited. the GA sentinel is the worst offender, it will be based on slots and not the same reduction for all races I run GA sent (advanced) and have literally no problem fitting proto everything to it. A reduction doesn't seem unfair. On a side note I have however got all core skills to level 5! Still though, I have plenty spare. Twitter MajLagSpike CPM Application
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 161	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:14:00 - [393] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Hawkings Greenback wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: A selling point on logi equipment balance at PRO. If passive scans are removed, then it will be the logi's job to scan. Getting that extra scanner at PRO for the amarr and caldari will be helpful. That still doesn't make loosing a side arm slot any easier if I have to now go & save SP for proto scanners. This isn't an argument in favor of the logi suit being balanced for a logi role. If your complaint is that "my SP I spent on weapon effectivness now makes my logi less effective as a logi" isn't really valid. The point of the tweak is to make logis play their logi/support role, and assaults be worthwhile in their niche. Not sure how I am not playing my role as a logi if I have a side arm & use it. Removing the side arm slot DOES NOT in any way help a set of suits with poorly conceived bonus. Also if the the assault suits were any good then more people would use them. The fact that people would prefer to go scout, heavy or even logi says a lot about the assault suit not the others. Besides, as I have pointed out, my link bonus does not work when I am dead. So I try & ensure I stay alive long enough to protect the links & myself to allow the bonus to work & for people to return to the battlefield quicker. This is not a discussion for me about OHNOESMYSIDARMISUSELESSNOW, it is a point about why is there a need to remove it in the first place. Its not going to magically make assaults better & I certainly don't see hordes of Amarr logis roaming the battlefield killing all in sight. The sidearm is useful, for me. I like it. It saves my life ( though not always ). GÇ£Their stupidity does not amaze me, its when they're smart that amazes me." GÇò Frank Zappa
Brush Master HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 1271	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:15:00 - [394] - Quote Would like to see some thoughts on proxy mine updates for a future update. Seems silly to me that you have to have a logi build with 3 levels of proxy mines for them to be effective at killing vehicles. Anyways, discussion @ https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=165785 Dust Veteran. June 2012 - ? True Logi. Flying DS from the start. @dustreports
Tesfa Alem ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 151	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:20:00 - [395] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: Hawkings Greenback wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: A selling point on logi equipment balance at PRO. If passive scans are removed, then it will be the logi's job to scan. Getting that extra scanner at PRO for the amarr and caldari will be helpful. That still doesn't make loosing a side arm slot any easier if I have to now go & save SP for proto scanners. This isn't an argument in favor of the logi suit being balanced for a logi role. If your complaint is that "my SP I spent on weapon effectivness now makes my logi less effective as a logi" isn't really valid. The point of the tweak is to make logis play their logi/support role, and assaults be worthwhile in their niche. The "tweak" doesn't do that however. It doesn't make assault suits any less viable to leave the Amarr logi thier sidearm. Its probably one of the best unique trade offs in the game. You're slow, a big target and the only thing you're good at is dropping uplinks. One less equpiment slot. Yet you get a sidearm for when things get hairy. In line with the (eve lore) unrelenting nature of Ammar military philosphy. It's also evident that amarr logis have NEVER been FOTM. Only the Caldari logis and gallente logis have been exploited as slayers. So its hard to claim that the amarr logi sidearm affects the assault role, when its was the logis without sidearms that were doing it. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. CPM1 Candidate
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2449	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:21:00 - [396] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: Hawkings Greenback wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: A selling point on logi equipment balance at PRO. If passive scans are removed, then it will be the logi's job to scan. Getting that extra scanner at PRO for the amarr and caldari will be helpful. That still doesn't make loosing a side arm slot any easier if I have to now go & save SP for proto scanners. This isn't an argument in favor of the logi suit being balanced for a logi role. If your complaint is that "my SP I spent on weapon effectivness now makes my logi less effective as a logi" isn't really valid. The point of the tweak is to make logis play their logi/support role, and assaults be worthwhile in their niche. Not sure how I am not playing my role as a logi if I have a side arm & use it. Removing the side arm slot DOES NOT in any way help a set of suits with poorly conceived bonus. Also if the the assault suits were any good then more people would use them. The fact that people would prefer to go scout, heavy or even logi says a lot about the assault suit not the others. Besides, as I have pointed out, my link bonus does not work when I am dead. So I try & ensure I stay alive long enough to protect the links & myself to allow the bonus to work & for people to return to the battlefield quicker. This is not a discussion for me about OHNOESMYSIDARMISUSELESSNOW, it is a point about why is there a need to remove it in the first place. Its not going to magically make assaults better & I certainly don't see hordes of Amarr logis roaming the battlefield killing all in sight. The sidearm is useful, for me. I like it. It saves my life ( though not always ). I don't think the argument is that it makes assaults better absolutely. It makes them a better choice relatively (assuming decent bonuses too.) If your option is between -10% ehp and speed when switching between amarr assault to logi, but then gaining +2 equipment, then it seems pretty favorable for the logi. But if you also lose a sidearm, it makes it significantly less potent. Also, I don't know if its your job to be 'protecting' your uplinks/equipment you drop as a logi. To some extent in prepared 1v1s yes. But more than likely, unless you are running at least a scan, and you have backup hives, you're left with just one other equipment slot for now and still open up to stealthy scout flanks.
Repe Susi Rautaleijona 1326	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:24:00 - [397] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: i would like to see you give us alternatives to dual tanking. damage mods or hp mods are the only mods that directly support combat. we dont have any other options, so if you ever want to see dual tanking go away, youll need to give us some new toys to play with. While everybody would love to see that, It's not going to happen. Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome. ~ Isaac Asimov
The True Inferno Myrmidon Syndicate 15	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:31:00 - [398] - Quote Would it be possible to add a light weapon range increase for the assault skill? and slight modifications to the ScR such as limiting its rof to its description or increasing its heat build up for non charged fire and lowering it for full charged. ScP = GÖÑ
Brush Master HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 1271	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:34:00 - [399] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Brush Master wrote: Would like more details on making logis all the same number of equipment slots. How many slots are you going to get? As someone that runs support logi almost all the time, for pub matches, 3 can get you by but for PC battles 4 allows you to be a full support logi with all areas you can support with. +1 on scaled wp for injector. Ok, I can see the confusion brewing, logi slots PER tier will be the same, 3, for ADV, 4 for PRO etc. Amarr sidearm is changed to Equipment slot and another slot added to bring them to the same total number of slots as other races at all tiers. Ok so all races will have the same number of equipment slots, 3 for ADV, 4 for Proto What will the high and low slots be? 3/3 for ADV and 4/4 for Proto? Basically minmatar loadout. So you are going for a standardized layout but give each race specific racial bonuses? I would say logi bonus are lacking a bit if you are going for this. Dust Veteran. June 2012 - ? True Logi. Flying DS from the start. @dustreports
Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 186	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:34:00 - [400] - Quote * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. Can we please see the actual slot breakdown? I am fine if the other suits get more slots, but I do not want to lose slots on my min logi. I already die too easily that suit. I also want Ambush OMS to stay and for vehicles to stay in them. There are supply depots in that mode and more clones so more room to spawn into an AV fit. There are also good AV fits that are also good at anti infantry. I like running AV and don't want to have to run dom or skirm to run AV.

Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 186	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:37:00 - [401] - Quote * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. Have you considered adding a fitting bonus for damage mods in addition to light weapon fitting bonus, or add a fitting bonus for the sidearm too. The latter would keep differentiation between the commando and assault.
Tesfa Alem ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 151	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:38:00 - [402] - Quote Syeven Reed wrote: [quote=Tesfa Alem] Maybe "abuse" is the wrong word but I do agree with them, placing a bed of hives and then swapping out to a heavy brick seems like a misuse of a bad mechanic? I don't think so. Even the situation you mentioned is easily counterable, flux the spot and spray. And i like having my options so if i see a tanked heavy siting in a nest of hives i can switch out to my mass drive min comando if he's in the open and pummel him from range or sneak behing his stationary butt and R.E. him in my gal scout or rep a friendly heavy as we charge his position in my winmatar logi or take him down my self in a sentinel with flux grendaes. Cant take my cal logi or a gal logi to fight him though. 1 way trip for the amar scout. And if they nerf the A logi sidearms i'll just have to throw my uplinks at him like frisebee buzzsaws Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. CPM1 Candidate
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3863	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:40:00 - [403] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: lithkul devant wrote: 2. By how much will the HMG heat be going up? Will you also be raising the amount of damage that HMGs do to vehicles in order to compensate, since this will be a nerf to total damage available. 2 17, 18, enough to make it a skill weapon rather than spray and pray He brings up a good point Rattati. I do often overheat when trying to kill LAVGÇÖs with my HMG. While the heat change will make the HMG more of a skill weapon against infantry, it will effectively be a nerf to the HMG versus LAVGÇÖs. Adding the damage against vehicle bonus to the HMG that was discussed months ago would help to balance this. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Waruiko DUST G I A N T General Tso's Alliance 165	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:41:00 - [404] - Quote That injector change doesn't look good. I do think better revives should give more WP but I don't think it should reduce current base revive WP. We would be better served by getting the current revive WP and any extra health from better injectors going towards getting points for rep out of the rep cap the rep tool uses. If blood and sweat don't teach them perhaps time will
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 162	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:43:00 - [405] - Quote @Beren It depends on what role you want to play. I like the support role. If the bonus were good enough for assault I'm sure people would pick them. I don't see how a figure stating that there are more logi's than assault equates into re arrangement of logi slot layout to help assaults. Especially as there are posts in the forum specifically stating that assault bonus are not great, as seen by the fact that very few run them I game. If CCP changed the assault bonus first AND then went back to review the logi situation at a later date it would make me a little happier. At the moment the logic behind the changes is a little muddy for me. GÇ£Their stupidity does not amaze me, its when they're smart that amazes me." GÇò Frank Zappa
The True Inferno Myrmidon Syndicate 15	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:44:00 - [406] - Quote For the Assualt skill, could it not be focused on the racial weapons, as this limits freedom. It should be focused on the suit, such as th old ones were, such as, the 25 % sheild bonus we found on the caldari assault, instead of the weapons(freaked reload speed) ScP = GÖÑ
NextDark Knight Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 441	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:52:00 - [407] - Quote I always liked the side arm on the amarr logi.. That suit always seams like it wasn't ment to repair people because it was slow and has a huge hit box. Just more data to consider. Forge Changes needed Officer Splash 3.0, Proto 2.7 Advanced 2.5 Standard 2.1. Original ROF needs to return!
Yosihisa Mozzare Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 43	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:55:00 - [408] - Quote CCP Rattati >Reduced small rail range compared to sniper range I cant understand this sentence. if you dont mean small rail buff, you mean sniper buff or nerf, right?
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 3087	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:58:00 - [409] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance. The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. I'm reposting this from another thread in hopes that either your or Logibro will read it. You guys need to stop and ask yourselves what the role of the Caldari and Amarr logistics is on the field. They both drop passive equipment, and once that is done (literally takes about 1-2s to drop an uplink or nanohive) what is supposed to be their purpose on the battlefield? If you think all logis should then pull out their rep tool and start repairing, then why would anyone run anything but Minmatar Logi? Simply for aesthetics? If a logi suit is supposed to spend the majority of their time repping, then there is almost no reason for any other logi suit to exist than the min logi, because it is specifically bonused for that. The Minmatar and Gallente logi suits are centered around active equipment, that is, equipment you spend most of your time using. The Caldari and Amarr logi suits are centered around passive equipment, which leaves them free to pursue other non logistics tasks like slaying. This also makes sense as both of these passive equipment are meant to be more around the frontline, the Caldari and Amarr Logi need their combat efficacy to protect their passive equipment. You need to think about each suits role on the field and how to better reinforce that idea. Gallente/Minmatar Active Equipment High Mobility Low combat efficiency High Logistics efficiency Amarr/Caldari Passive equipment Low mobility Moderate combat efficiency Low logistics efficiency If you remove the sidearm on Amarr logi and give them a 4th equip slot, they just become a poor copy of the Min/Gal suits. They still have low logistics efficacy because their bonuses are not designed for logistics efficiency. If you serious about type-II versions. Then you need to completely rethink the bonuses so that the high logistics efficiency variant has a bonus to active equipment and the combat efficiency variant has a bonus to passive equipment to better reinforce the role of each suit. You would essentially need to make a set of medic suits centered entirely around the nanite injector and rep tool. While the combat version would be around passive equipment like hives and links. Every suit would have close to the same bonus, and the flavor would come from the slot layout. You could give the combat logi a L/S and the medic an S or S/S setup and boost the speed and hp of the medic up substantially to reinforce the role that they should be running around repping and reviving. If you move forward with this as it is though, you will essentially render the non-Minmatar logi suits obsolete.
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1492	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:15:00 - [410] - Quote as long as I can use my minmatar logi for babysitting just like it do it now I dont care: my proto logi fit is: 4 proto shield extenders 3 basic ferroscale plates 1 proto armor repairer proto smg proto nade proro repair tool proto nanite injector proto nanohive proto gauged drop uplink decent mix of durability and speed to follow my teammates around the map. full rack of proto equipment to babysit my teammembers along with an SMG and nades for self defense.

Nao Kun Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 4	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:17:00 - [411] - Quote > * Blaster turret accuracy improvements, both Small and Large I greatly welcome. its nice fix. > * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS Why do you persecute many times the vehicle rider? This adjustment is not required. I want to play ambush with vehicle. > removing the Amarr sidearm. Amarr Logi's sidearm is the only advantage. because this suit is so slowly and has not enough suit bonus. > * OB WP doubled this adjustment is too extreme I think this is the best: 3000WP/1 shot OB I love Madrugar.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10776	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:17:00 - [412] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A small idea I had. How about increasing light weapon fitting requirements by 35%, and giving Assaults/Commandos a corresponding fitting reduction? Sidearms become a low CPU/PG option for non slayer suits, Heavies will be less likely to use those with the CPU/PG reduction and Heavy weapon fitting bonuses. This makes Sidearm vs Light weapon an actual choice, rather than some fun fitting you run once in a while. Non slayer suits that want the same slaying power would have to do sacrifices, just like non scouts trying to fit cloaks. This is a terrible terrible idea. Logis need to stay alive and in a dust where rail rifles can engage within 80 meters, and HMGs destroy you close range, which should i give up HP or equipment just to be able to shoot back. This would rather encourage me to become a slayer logi. i simply cannot risk my good equipment and suit on 1 side arm, (which would only be either the magsec or smg) so i might as well ditch the equipment and go for kills. Cant we just buff the assaults without destroying the other suits. Then downgrade from a Duvolle to a GEK? Is it really too much to ask for? I was using GEK's for a long time on my Gallente Assault suit ya know. WIth maxed fitting skills. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Ld Collins Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 160	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:18:00 - [413] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. * Installation buff, with a range and AI range reduction, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements, both Small and Large * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement * Reduced small rail range compared to sniper range * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. ~~Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus~~. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS * Reduced ADS ISK price Still under tech evaluation * Disabling passive Scan sharing with squads * Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Unfair fall damage calculation Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug Hotfix Delta or later Sidearm rebalance Sniper Rifle review Efficacy bonuses Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity Could you increase the damage of proximity mines to 1000 so I can stop using a logi suit with 3 equipment slots?
Nirwanda Vaughns 426th Infantry 637	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:22:00 - [414] - Quote on the Assault changes can the Gallente Assault and logi have the lowslots swapped? it'd make more sense even though i'm primarily logi i always thought the slots have been wrong way round and also increase PG/CPU on the gal assault and lower on gall logi to compensate Rolling with the punches
Martin0 Brancaleone Maphia Clan Corporation 581	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:27:00 - [415] - Quote * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP Worst idea ever. I remember when injectors gave 40wp only, NOONE used them because the risk is not worth it when you can just shoot a huy to get same/more wp. If this change goes live the forum will be drowned by people lamenting that noone revives them, while at the same time refusong to use a injectors bucause it wont be worth the isk/effort/cpu-pg. Why should anyone fit a basic injector when an asdists will give you the same wp withouany drawback? Why use an advanced when a kill or a couple spawns on a militia uplink give me the sme wp? Stop listening to the odiots crying farning, they'll be the same one crying because noone revives thir precious proto suit.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3688	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:31:00 - [416] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Truth. I'll repost this from another thread too: John Demonsbane wrote: Dj grammer wrote: You need to read this. This guy spent his time making a guide for Logistics players. I will say that I have spec into every role possible up to advance with proto in Minmatar Logistics. Before asking to nerf logistics how about trying them out first and do it according to the guide that I linked Exactly. IWS and Rattati, I will give a nice simple explanation for why the Amarr logi's role is suited for a sidearm and others are not. As RedBleach said, great for solo operations. Why is that important? It's a tacticians suit. (If you click the link in my signature, you will see that I have put some thought into the matter and am not just throwing it up on the fly. ) Let's use the minmatar logi as an example. It has a bonus to rep tools. Useless if nobody is around, great if you are running with the pack. In contrast, the Amarr logis bonus is arguably the opposite. At the very least, it is not appreciably enhanced by others being around. What's the better place for an uplink? An area where 5 people already are, or somewhere off on the flank to create a rally point or new attacking front? Obviously the latter. Would it be better out in the open or more hidden? Again, the latter. So in this case, which of the 2 logi suits, if they are fulfilling their primary role (as designated by their bonus) is more likely to find itself on a lone wolf operation (and thus be in greater need of a sidearms to defend itself)? If you said Amarr, you are correct. So, based on its bonus there is a perfectly logical non-slayer reason for the sidearm to exist. In addition, none of the elite laser weapon slayer types do their thing in the Amarr logi suit. They use the assault or commando because they actually have a bonus that works! (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Tesfa Alem ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 152	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:33:00 - [417] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A small idea I had. How about increasing light weapon fitting requirements by 35%, and giving Assaults/Commandos a corresponding fitting reduction? Sidearms become a low CPU/PG option for non slayer suits, Heavies will be less likely to use those with the CPU/PG reduction and Heavy weapon fitting bonuses. This makes Sidearm vs Light weapon an actual choice, rather than some fun fitting you run once in a while. Non slayer suits that want the same slaying power would have to do sacrifices, just like non scouts trying to fit cloaks. This is a terrible terrible idea. Logis need to stay alive and in a dust where rail rifles can engage within 80 meters, and HMGs destroy you close range, which should i give up HP or equipment just to be able to shoot back. This would rather encourage me to become a slayer logi. i simply cannot risk my good equipment and suit on 1 side arm, (which would only be either the magsec or smg) so i might as well ditch the equipment and go for kills. Cant we just buff the assaults without destroying the other suits. Then downgrade from a Duvolle to a GEK? Is it really too much to ask for? I was using GEK's for a long time on my Gallente Assault suit ya know. WIth maxed fitting skills. I 'm talking about struggling to scrape ADV weapons onto the suits. PG and cpu is already razor thin. I build my logis around the equipment and HP but thinking along your lines would make me build around the weapon. Ethier an standard or mlt light weapon or SMG with low HP and good equipment or become a better slayer than assaults with a duvolle with survivable suit but crappy equipment. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. CPM1 Candidate

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3889	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:38:00 - [418] - Quote Thang Bausch wrote: * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. Have you considered adding a fitting bonus for damage mods in addition to light weapon fitting bonus, or add a fitting bonus for the sidearm too. The latter would keep differentiation between the commando and assault. Light damage mods is high on my list for Assault efficacy bonuses "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3891	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:42:00 - [419] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance. The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. I'm reposting this from another thread in hopes that either your or Logibro will read it. You guys need to stop and ask yourselves what the role of the Caldari and Amarr logistics is on the field. They both drop passive equipment, and once that is done (literally takes about 1-2s to drop an uplink or nanohive) what is supposed to be their purpose on the battlefield? If you think all logis should then pull out their rep tool and start repairing, then why would anyone run anything but Minmatar Logi? Simply for aesthetics? If a logi suit is supposed to spend the majority of their time repping, then there is almost no reason for any other logi suit to exist than the min logi, because it is specifically bonused for that. The Minmatar and Gallente logi suits are centered around active equipment, that is, equipment you spend most of your time using. The Caldari and Amarr logi suits are centered around passive equipment, which leaves them free to pursue other non logistics tasks like slaying. This also makes sense as both of these passive equipment are meant to be more around the frontline, the Caldari and Amarr Logi need their combat efficacy to protect their passive equipment. You need to think about each suits role on the field and how to better reinforce that idea. Gallente/Minmatar Active Equipment High Mobility Low combat efficiency High Logistics efficiency Amarr/Caldari Passive equipment Low mobility Moderate combat efficiency Low logistics efficiency If you remove the sidearm on Amarr logi and give them a 4th equip slot, they just become a poor copy of the Min/Gal suits. They still have low logistics efficacy because their bonuses are not designed for logistics efficiency. If you serious about type-II versions. Then you need to completely rethink the bonuses so that the high logistics efficiency variant has a bonus to active equipment and the combat efficiency variant has a bonus to passive equipment to better reinforce the role of each suit. You would essentially need to make a set of medic suits centered entirely around the nanite injector and rep tool. While the combat version would be around passive equipment like hives and links. Every suit would have close to the same bonus, and the flavor would come from the slot layout. You could give the combat logi a L/S and the medic an S or S/S setup and boost the speed and hp of the medic up substantially to reinforce the role that they should be running around repping and reviving. If you move forward with this as it is though, you will essentially render the non-Minmatar logi suits obsolete. I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 961	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:45:00 - [420] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. Doesn't that make your argument that the Alogi don't need a sidearm to differentiate assaults and logi's invalid? It's also still unclear about what the total low/high slots are going to be for all the logi-suits and the CPU/PG...Adding a sidearm to the callogi isn't going to help their CPU fitting (as is mentioned a few times already).

John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3689	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:46:00 - [421] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance. The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. I'm reposting this from another thread in hopes that either your or Logibro will read it. You guys need to stop and ask yourselves what the role of the Caldari and Amarr logistics is on the field. They both drop passive equipment, and once that is done (literally takes about 1-2s to drop an uplink or nanohive) what is supposed to be their purpose on the battlefield? If you think all logis should then pull out their rep tool and start repairing, then why would anyone run anything but Minmatar Logi? Simply for aesthetics? If a logi suit is supposed to spend the majority of their time repping, then there is almost no reason for any other logi suit to exist than the min logi, because it is specifically bonused for that. The Minmatar and Gallente logi suits are centered around active equipment, that is, equipment you spend most of your time using. The Caldari and Amarr logi suits are centered around passive equipment, which leaves them free to pursue other non logistics tasks like slaying. This also makes sense as both of these passive equipment are meant to be more around the frontline, the Caldari and Amarr Logi need their combat efficacy to protect their passive equipment. You need to think about each suits role on the field and how to better reinforce that idea. Gallente/Minmatar Active Equipment High Mobility Low combat efficiency High Logistics efficiency Amarr/Caldari Passive equipment Low mobility Moderate combat efficiency Low logistics efficiency If you remove the sidearm on Amarr logi and give them a 4th equip slot, they just become a poor copy of the Min/Gal suits. They still have low logistics efficacy because their bonuses are not designed for logistics efficiency. If you serious about type-II versions. Then you need to completely rethink the bonuses so that the high logistics efficiency variant has a bonus to active equipment and the combat efficiency variant has a bonus to passive equipment to better reinforce the role of each suit. You would essentially need to make a set of medic suits centered entirely around the nanite injector and rep tool. While the combat version would be around passive equipment like hives and links. Every suit would have close to the same bonus, and the flavor would come from the slot layout. You could give the combat logi a L/S and the medic an S or S/S setup and boost the speed and hp of the medic up substantially to reinforce the role that they should be running around repping and reviving. If you move forward with this as it is though, you will essentially render the non-Minmatar logi suits obsolete. I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. spits out coffee OMG. There is hope for this game after all.... (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 275	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:50:00 - [422] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance. The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. I'm reposting this from another thread in hopes that either your or Logibro will read it. You guys need to stop and ask yourselves what the role of the Caldari and Amarr logistics is on the field. They both drop passive equipment, and once that is done (literally takes about 1-2s to drop an uplink or nanohive) what is supposed to be their purpose on the battlefield? If you think all logis should then pull out their rep tool and start repairing, then why would anyone run anything but Minmatar Logi? Simply for aesthetics? If a logi suit is supposed to spend the majority of their time repping, then there is almost no reason for any other logi suit to exist than the min logi, because it is specifically bonused for that. The Minmatar and Gallente logi suits are centered around active equipment, that is, equipment you spend most of your time using. The Caldari and Amarr logi suits are centered around passive equipment, which leaves them free to pursue other non logistics tasks like slaying. This also makes sense as both of these passive equipment are meant to be more around the frontline, the Caldari and Amarr Logi need their combat efficacy to protect their passive equipment. You need to think about each suits role on the field and how to better reinforce that idea. Gallente/Minmatar Active Equipment High Mobility Low combat efficiency High Logistics efficiency Amarr/Caldari Passive equipment Low mobility Moderate combat efficiency Low logistics efficiency If you remove the sidearm on Amarr logi and give them a 4th equip slot, they just become a poor copy of the Min/Gal suits. They still have low logistics efficacy because their bonuses are not designed for logistics efficiency. If you serious about type-II versions. Then you need to completely rethink the bonuses so that the high logistics efficiency variant has a bonus to active equipment and the combat efficiency variant has a bonus to passive equipment to better reinforce the role of each suit. You would essentially need to make a set of medic suits centered entirely around the nanite injector and rep tool. While the combat version would be around passive equipment like hives and links. Every suit would have close to the same bonus, and the flavor would come from the slot layout. You could give the combat logi a L/S and the medic an S or S/S setup and boost the speed and hp of the medic up substantially to reinforce the role that they should be running around repping and reviving. If you move forward with this as it is though, you will essentially render the non-Minmatar logi suits obsolete. I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. Okay now were are getting somewhere. Give assaults a bonus to damage modifiers is cool but it will need a bit more to sell me on assaults. CCP Logibro was already thinking on bringing back Type-II suits but your Idea is a great start. To run a sidearm on any logi besides Amarr should cost you an arm and/or a leg. In other words costing you a high slot, a low slot, both a high and low slot, equipment slot and etc. why ccp?
IRON PATRIOT 1 General Tso's Alliance 150	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:56:00 - [423] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. * Installation buff, with a range and AI range reduction, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements, both Small and Large * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement * Reduced small rail range compared to sniper range * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. ~~Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus~~. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS * Reduced ADS ISK price Still under tech evaluation * Disabling passive Scan sharing with squads * Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Unfair fall damage calculation Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug Hotfix Delta or later Sidearm rebalance Sniper Rifle review Efficacy bonuses Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity I hope when you say that your giving the amaar scout suit precision bonus your not taking away the caldari's just giving the amaar the higher bonus out of the two. It would be piontless to have a long range scan suit when you can only detect medium and heavy frames. Majority of the scouts in competitive play use two profile dampners, having that bonus helps counter most not all. Take it away and you'll be making the caldari as bad as the amaar is now. This is how I see it Amaar = High Precision & High Stamina Caldari = Moderate Precision & Wide Field Gallente = High Damp & Moderate Field Minmatar = Fast Hacking & High Mobility
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3689	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:56:00 - [424] - Quote Dj grammer wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance. The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. I'm reposting this from another thread in hopes that either your or Logibro will read it. You guys need to stop and ask yourselves what the role of the Caldari and Amarr logistics is on the field. They both drop passive equipment, and once that is done (literally takes about 1-2s to drop an uplink or nanohive) what is supposed to be their purpose on the battlefield? If you think all logis should then pull out their rep tool and start repairing, then why would anyone run anything but Minmatar Logi? Simply for aesthetics? If a logi suit is supposed to spend the majority of their time repping, then there is almost no reason for any other logi suit to exist than the min logi, because it is specifically bonused for that. The Minmatar and Gallente logi suits are centered around active equipment, that is, equipment you spend most of your time using. The Caldari and Amarr logi suits are centered around passive equipment, which leaves them free to pursue other non logistics tasks like slaying. This also makes sense as both of these passive equipment are meant to be more around the frontline, the Caldari and Amarr Logi need their combat efficacy to protect their passive equipment. You need to think about each suits role on the field and how to better reinforce that idea. Gallente/Minmatar Active Equipment High Mobility Low combat efficiency High Logistics efficiency Amarr/Caldari Passive equipment Low mobility Moderate combat efficiency Low logistics efficiency If you remove the sidearm on Amarr logi and give them a 4th equip slot, they just become a poor copy of the Min/Gal suits. They still have low logistics efficacy because their bonuses are not designed for logistics efficiency. If you serious about type-II versions. Then you need to completely rethink the bonuses so that the high logistics efficiency variant has a bonus to active equipment and the combat efficiency variant has a bonus to passive equipment to better reinforce the role of each suit. You would essentially need to make a set of medic suits centered entirely around the nanite injector and rep tool. While the combat version would be around passive equipment like hives and links. Every suit would have close to the same bonus, and the flavor would come from the slot layout. You could give the combat logi a L/S and the medic an S or S/S setup and boost the speed and hp of the medic up substantially to reinforce the role that they should be running around repping and reviving. If you move forward with this as it is though, you will essentially render the non-Minmatar logi suits obsolete. I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. Okay now were are getting somewhere. Give assaults a bonus to damage modifiers is cool but it will need a bit more to sell me on assaults. CCP Logibro was already thinking on bringing back Type-II suits but your Idea is a great start. To run a sidearm on any logi besides Amarr should cost you an arm and/or a leg. In other words costing you a high slot, a low slot, both a high and low slot, equipment slot and etc. Good point, you would either need to take more than one slot away for the cal logi, or you need to add one to the Amarr because it currently basically gives up a low and an equip slot for the sidearm. Personally I'd like another slot on my Amarr logi because it just makes more sense as it either is no better at support than a scout at STD, or has a bad slot layout for an armor tanker overall. But, either way is fine, the cal logi always did have a ludicrous number of slots. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 119	Posted - 2014.07.10 14:19:00 - [425] - Quote NanoCleric wrote: * snip * Personally.. I think the 'most' important thing you could do, would be to add some validation to user input.. - If the fire button is pressed faster than a 'human speed tolerance' then you don't call the fire routine.. (i.e. you've detected they are using autofire.. so don't allow the fire code to actually run until that human tolerance has passed.). - If you detect a change in direction and acceleration beyond what is humanly possible using a DSJoystick or keyboard keys.. clamp the acceleration values.. or even penalise them.. Strafing speeds are a 'massive' problem. As for aim assist.. pff.. i could go on for days on how badly coded that is... It should certainly not run 'every' time the fire routine runs. Where do these comments come from? .. I've been programming AAA games for many years myself in industry.. and seeing these problems makes me cringe... they MUST be addressed to stop people being able to strafe side to side at impossible speed while 'also' aiming with insane precsion and not missing us. It's no fun to play against 'computer aided movement + computer aided rapid firing + computer dead lock aiming'.... This simply 'must' be addressed to bring 'human skill' back into the game. If you ever want to discuss things like this Rattati so long as your NDA permits it.. then by all means contact me... (can mail me on NanoCleric or DaiReaver and i'll provide my skype details). In some ways i wish i was there so i could change the code myself... but in honesty.. i'd never want to work for CCP with what i've seen. Edit: An afterthought.. you have a stamina mechanic.. you could use that to reduce the speedy strafe crap which goes on too.. Every time someone changes direction when strafing.. check the speed at which they did it.. and use that value to reduce the stamina gauge... If their stam is low when they change direction.. their acceleration is extremely penalized.. so they may be able to perform a quick shimmy.. but then they will be very slow and sluggish.. As opposed to all the other changes proposed.. things like this will give you a bigger win with the community..... Plus.. you could add in an accuracy penalty, or 'jolt' when they change direction.. Try it in real life and see how stable you can keep your arms pointed at a target when you change direction that fast.. Rattati, can we get a response on the above quote from my previous post... Can we hope to get any resolution on these incredibly problematic mechanics?
lee corwood Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 897	Posted - 2014.07.10 14:32:00 - [426] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. ~~Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus~~. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. Can I get clarification if this means all logis are stepping up to the Min Logi configuration or are you stripping down slots across the board to a lower slot configuration for everyone? Either way I agree with a previous poster. Right now Min is the most viable because the other logi's don't have real roles to fill. Instead of a blanket change that basically dissipates any uniqueness about the logis, you should consider placing real value to the other suits. CCP Rattati wrote: Still under tech evaluation * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free This should certainly be done in Academy (along with an overhaul). There needs to be more education on the value of skills to begin with. Many descriptions miss vitally important information on them that a new player would not know that a player of long time is aware of. Those inheritable bases now are completely missed by the new player. However, at first, there are only a few places a new player can go at entry level tiers. The first 3 skillbook purchases at minimum should be free. Skillbooks are more expensive than I remember (mostly because I have bought most all of them by now and don't have money issues), but '100k' + for entry level skills like 'Dropsuit Command' isn't helping the new player. Especially when they're making maybe 1,000 - 10,000 a battle starting out. Consider a change for the Ion Pistol Skill Leveling up only increases the charge time but I don't see how that's helpful if every charge shot overheats the gun. I'd rather see a decrease to overheat time. Basic nitpicks please consider looking at the revive bugs. They are numerous please stop changing my channel when typing I'd really like the ability to see squad (not the whole team, just squad) names at all times, not just when my rep tool is out. It would make it infinitely easier to coordinate and defend orders more well thought out. Also if they're far away and/or behind a hill, a rep tool won't even give me their name, nor will targeting them on my gun. Change the way SL orders are implemented. Instead of making me have to point and click on a person, give me a list instead. Objectives themselves are easy to paint, but when greenberries are moving, in fights, flying/driving, etc. It takes a good number of tries to get the defend order on a person. There are at most 5 objectives and 6 people on my team (including me). I think having a scrolling list of 11 items would be much preferred and faster than 3 failed attempts to not get the wrong random blueberry or 'invalid target'. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 623	Posted - 2014.07.10 14:32:00 - [427] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: as long as I can use my minmatar logi for babysitting just like it do it now I dont care, my proto logi fit is: 4 proto shield extenders 3 basic ferroscale plates 1 proto armor repairer proto smg proto nade proro repair tool proto nanite injector proto nanohive proto gauged drop uplink decent mix of durability and speed to follow my teammates around the map. full rack of proto equipment to babysit my teammembers along with an SMG and nades for self defense. you already ruined my fast hacking minmatar logi and I will finally quit if you ruin this fit too. Agreed that the Min Logi needs no changes except maybe a speed or stamina increase. In all fairness though, the hacking bonus on the Min Logi was only nerfed by 5%. It still gets a 20% speed bonus. Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2572	Posted - 2014.07.10 14:34:00 - [428] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All sorts of cool stuff Loving most of this so far CCP Rattati wrote: All, Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. ~~Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus~~. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP 100% in favor of the iterative approach to balance. There are some pairings above with raise a bit of concern however regarding the order in which they're being selected. So here are my concerns. The Primary Objective is fine, in fact long needed. Having the primary facet of the objective be attained by an HP buff (especially of that really is just HP/raw buffer and not actually eHP) is concerning. The Assault niche is not defined by its tank nor even it's slots (though a look at those certainly does make sense) and pinning balance on an HP, or even eHP centric method is very likely to cause role/frame overlap issues between the Assault in light frames, logi frames and the eHP balance on heavy frames. Now that being said the Assault almost certainly does need some love when it comes to eHP, but as the primary or first metric to push rather than anything that helps define their niche and role as LW specialists, that's concerning it strikes me as unsettlingly similar to the logi bonus swap/equipment nerf from awhile back that was a bit too heavy on the 'symptomatic medicine' of addressing the immediate context rather than working for a more cohesive long view. The logistics equipment slot change has needed to happen since the role bonus was changed, it's a matter of internal racial value added from the effects of the role bonus. But removing the Amarr sidearm (especially while it's racial bonus is still improperly apply/bugged) really constrains that racial suit, eliminating and/or not supporting much of a unique role for it. Related, the WP scaling on injectors has been called for since closed beta so thank you for addressing that. It's greatly appreciated. I do have to say I'd hoped for an iteration on it with a more dynamic earnings bonus rather than a raw/hard coded one but I'm guessing this is a tech issue, so I won't look a gift horse in the mouth over this one. It does however highlight the issue of the entire equipment line. The fix to Injector scaling, while wonderful and long needed, is only part of the problem that needs to be addressed. And while there might be reasons that doing it all at once isn't idea, I notice a lack of any overhaul and properly scale the equipment line item on the Delta or later* list. Which makes this concerning. The long running equipment thread I started in closed beta round codex is still present and as yet had not comment from development since the hotfix cycle began. These issues are persistent, directly effect medium frame balance, and need to be addressed. CCP Rattati wrote: Still under tech evaluation Bugs/issues that need Client update Hotfix Delta or later ^Liking these overall 0.02 ISK as of this time Cross Vote Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate
The True Inferno Myrmidon Syndicate 16	Posted - 2014.07.10 14:35:00 - [429] - Quote For suit skills I believe that they should be set around a type or area of item, such as equipment, sheild or armor modules, biotic modules, light weapons etc. Either that or they should be passive, effecting the suits own stats such as scan radius, run speed, stamina recover etc. Skills in suits should not tie you down to one equipment, weapon or specific module. The skills should allow freedom yet still retain use in most fits/situations (that fall between the lines of common sense) this give players large amounts of freedom in their suits role. ScP = GÖÑ
BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 37	Posted - 2014.07.10 14:38:00 - [430] - Quote For Assault is there any plans in changing some of the suits bonuses. You guys are redesigning the whole aspect of the assault right? - I don't want to have a trend where the scouts become assaults again after hotfix charlie deploys. The Blazing Intellect Machine

Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 948	Posted - 2014.07.10 14:41:00 - [431] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance. The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. I'm reposting this from another thread in hopes that either your or Logibro will read it. You guys need to stop and ask yourselves what the role of the Caldari and Amarr logistics is on the field. They both drop passive equipment, and once that is done (literally takes about 1-2s to drop an uplink or nanohive) what is supposed to be their purpose on the battlefield? If you think all logis should then pull out their rep tool and start repairing, then why would anyone run anything but Minmatar Logi? Simply for aesthetics? If a logi suit is supposed to spend the majority of their time repping, then there is almost no reason for any other logi suit to exist than the min logi, because it is specifically bonused for that. The Minmatar and Gallente logi suits are centered around active equipment, that is, equipment you spend most of your time using. The Caldari and Amarr logi suits are centered around passive equipment, which leaves them free to pursue other non logistics tasks like slaying. This also makes sense as both of these passive equipment are meant to be more around the frontline, the Caldari and Amarr Logi need their combat efficacy to protect their passive equipment. You need to think about each suits role on the field and how to better reinforce that idea. Gallente/Minmatar Active Equipment High Mobility Low combat efficiency High Logistics efficiency Amarr/Caldari Passive equipment Low mobility Moderate combat efficiency Low logistics efficiency If you remove the sidearm on Amarr logi and give them a 4th equip slot, they just become a poor copy of the Min/Gal suits. They still have low logistics efficacy because their bonuses are not designed for logistics efficiency. If you serious about type-II versions. Then you need to completely rethink the bonuses so that the high logistics efficiency variant has a bonus to active equipment and the combat efficiency variant has a bonus to passive equipment to better reinforce the role of each suit. You would essentially need to make a set of medic suits centered entirely around the nanite injector and rep tool. While the combat version would be around passive equipment like hives and links. Every suit would have close to the same bonus, and the flavor would come from the slot layout. You could give the combat logi a L/S and the medic an S or S/S setup and boost the speed and hp of the medic up substantially to reinforce the role that they should be running around repping and reviving. If you move forward with this as it is though, you will essentially render the non-Minmatar logi suits obsolete. I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. His post mirrors my own thoughts. Because, that's why.
lee corwood Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 897	Posted - 2014.07.10 14:42:00 - [432] - Quote The True Inferno wrote: For suit skills I believe that they should be set around a type or area of item, such as equipment, sheild or armor modules, biotic modules, light weapons etc. Either that or they should be passive, effecting the suits own stats such as scan radius, run speed, stamina recover etc. Skills in suits should not tie you down to one equipment, weapon or specific module. The skills should allow freedom yet still retain use in most fits/situations (that fall between the lines of common sense) this give players large amounts of freedom in their suits role. This was my first initial problem with the eq bonus of the logi. It kills what I thought was the coolest part of Dust514 fittings: the ability to mold your suit into your specific play style, whatever that ended up being. I would have rathered effectiveness of eq been skill trees of their own instead of suit sinks, but oh well. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2145	Posted - 2014.07.10 14:43:00 - [433] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. The slowest Logis would still of course move faster than the fastest heavy, something like +0.05 on the Assault or -0.05 on the Logi. So if that's the biggest worry, we have no problem in only buffing the Assault speed. We'd get more role differentiation and add flavour to the game if we confine an Assault speed buff to sprinting only. A sprint speed buff fits the assault role perfectly but still leaves the scouts the better choice for covering large areas. PSN: RationalSpark
Al the destroyer Vengeance Unbound 161	Posted - 2014.07.10 14:51:00 - [434] - Quote If your going to take the sidearm from the A logi you must give it the same pg as the other logis 102 at max skills AMERICA! WITHOUT US YOU WOULD HAVE NO ONE TO LOOK UP TO. GET SUM!
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3570	Posted - 2014.07.10 14:57:00 - [435] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance. The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. I'm reposting this from another thread in hopes that either your or Logibro will read it. You guys need to stop and ask yourselves what the role of the Caldari and Amarr logistics is on the field. They both drop passive equipment, and once that is done (literally takes about 1-2s to drop an uplink or nanohive) what is supposed to be their purpose on the battlefield? If you think all logis should then pull out their rep tool and start repairing, then why would anyone run anything but Minmatar Logi? Simply for aesthetics? If a logi suit is supposed to spend the majority of their time repping, then there is almost no reason for any other logi suit to exist than the min logi, because it is specifically bonused for that. The Minmatar and Gallente logi suits are centered around active equipment, that is, equipment you spend most of your time using. The Caldari and Amarr logi suits are centered around passive equipment, which leaves them free to pursue other non logistics tasks like slaying. This also makes sense as both of these passive equipment are meant to be more around the frontline, the Caldari and Amarr Logi need their combat efficacy to protect their passive equipment. You need to think about each suits role on the field and how to better reinforce that idea. Gallente/Minmatar Active Equipment High Mobility Low combat efficiency High Logistics efficiency Amarr/Caldari Passive equipment Low mobility Moderate combat efficiency Low logistics efficiency If you remove the sidearm on Amarr logi and give them a 4th equip slot, they just become a poor copy of the Min/Gal suits. They still have low logistics efficacy because their bonuses are not designed for logistics efficiency. If you serious about type-II versions. Then you need to completely rethink the bonuses so that the high logistics efficiency variant has a bonus to active equipment and the combat efficiency variant has a bonus to passive equipment to better reinforce the role of each suit. You would essentially need to make a set of medic suits centered entirely around the nanite injector and rep tool. While the combat version would be around passive equipment like hives and links. Every suit would have close to the same bonus, and the flavor would come from the slot layout. You could give the combat logi a L/S and the medic an S or S/S setup and boost the speed and hp of the medic up substantially to reinforce the role that they should be running around repping and reviving. If you move forward with this as it is though, you will essentially render the non-Minmatar logi suits obsolete. I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. HUZZAH!!! Candidate for CPM1 Go VOTE! Dust514.com They call me Princess Zatata <3
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10781	Posted - 2014.07.10 14:59:00 - [436] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A small idea I had. How about increasing light weapon fitting requirements by 35%, and giving Assaults/Commandos a corresponding fitting reduction? Sidearms become a low CPU/PG option for non slayer suits, Heavies will be less likely to use those with the CPU/PG reduction and Heavy weapon fitting bonuses. This makes Sidearm vs Light weapon an actual choice, rather than some fun fitting you run once in a while. Non slayer suits that want the same slaying power would have to do sacrifices, just like non scouts trying to fit cloaks. This is a terrible terrible idea. Logis need to stay alive and in a dust where rail rifles can engage within 80 meters, and HMGs destroy you close range, which should i give up HP or equipment just to be able to shoot back. This would rather encourage me to become a slayer logi. i simply cannot risk my good equipment and suit on 1 side arm, (which would only be either the magsec or smg) so i might as well ditch the equipment and go for kills. Cant we just buff the assaults without destroying the other suits. Then downgrade from a Duvolle to a GEK? Is it really too much to ask for? I was using GEK's for a long time on my Gallente Assault suit ya know. WIth maxed fitting skills. I 'm talking about struggling to scrape ADV weapons onto the suits. PG and cpu is already razor thin. I build my logis around the equipment and HP but thinking along your lines would make me build around the weapon. Ethier an standard or mlt light weapon or SMG with low HP and good equipment or become a better slayer than assaults with a duvolle with survivable suit but crappy equipment. Great, then you can't have both slayer, tank and equipment power Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10783	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:01:00 - [437] - Quote Can we got word on exactly what you mean by slot adjustments on assaults? Will we get (in general) an extra slot? (Matching logi's 8) Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3918	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:09:00 - [438] - Quote possible rearrangements, not more slots. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 1029	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:10:00 - [439] - Quote Where the hell was this Rattati guy a year ago when the game needed him? Thank god he's here now. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 414	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:16:00 - [440] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: I don't understand the heavy cpu/pg reduction. I'm a calsent and I already can't full proto fit my proto suit, why is it being made worse? PLEASE if you are going with this make sure you include the heavy weapon fitting bonus and make it a good one. also as you are trying to stop heavies from using light weapons here (i'm assuming) could you at least start looking into some more heavy weapons? at the moment a heavy will only have a choice of two.. its kind of limited. the GA sentinel is the worst offender, it will be based on slots and not the same reduction for all races why do some suits need fitting mods just to use all their slot but others can fit all complex mods and proto crap and still have fitting left over? im sick of not having enough cpu on my caldari suits. i thought theyd have the most cpu out of all the suits like in eve... but apparently the minmatar got better tech from some where that gives them the highest base cpu

Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 166	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:18:00 - [441] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: Where the hell was this Rattati guy a year ago when the game needed him? Thank god he's here now. Munch Yes indeed, not only that but at least he is listening to the feedback given GÇ£Their stupidity does not amaze me, its when they're smart that amazes me." GÇò Frank Zappa
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 1029	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:19:00 - [442] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Snake Sellors wrote: I don't understand the heavy cpu/pg reduction. I'm a calsent and I already can't full proto fit my proto suit, why is it being made worse? PLEASE if you are going with this make sure you include the heavy weapon fitting bonus and make it a good one. also as you are trying to stop heavies from using light weapons here (i'm assuming) could you at least start looking into some more heavy weapons? at the moment a heavy will only have a choice of two.. its kind of limited. the GA sentinel is the worst offender, it will be based on slots and not the same reduction for all races why do some suits need fitting mods just to use all their slot but others can fit all complex mods and proto crap and still have fitting left over? im sick of not having enough cpu on my caldari suits. i thought theyd have the most cpu out of all the suits like in eve... but apparently the minmatar got better tech from some where that gives them the highest base cpu The Min scout might take issue with your statements. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10785	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:21:00 - [443] - Quote Can I haz Type II Assault? I miss chromosome Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10785	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:21:00 - [444] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: possible rearrangements, not more slots. Le sigh Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 3092	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:23:00 - [445] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. The only point I wanted to get across is to make sure that the roles are defined. Hopefully I don't come across as too hostile, I know I have a tendency to. As long as you're talking about and considering it, and have a clear objective for the role you wish each suit to fulfill, whether or not its what I want, then its good enough for me. Much respect Rattati o7
Al the destroyer Vengeance Unbound 161	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:27:00 - [446] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: possible rearrangements, not more slots. Please clarify pg of A-logi suit I personally like the idea of removing sidearm for equipment but I am against it if you don't make the pg the same as the other logis AMERICA! WITHOUT US YOU WOULD HAVE NO ONE TO LOOK UP TO. GET SUM!
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10785	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:29:00 - [447] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Thang Bausch wrote: * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. Have you considered adding a fitting bonus for damage mods in addition to light weapon fitting bonus, or add a fitting bonus for the sidearm too. The latter would keep differentiation between the commando and assault. Light damage mods is high on my list for Assault efficacy bonuses O_O 100% efficiency. Can I haz plz? Meow? Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 327	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:31:00 - [448] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance. The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. I'm reposting this from another thread in hopes that either your or Logibro will read it. You guys need to stop and ask yourselves what the role of the Caldari and Amarr logistics is on the field. They both drop passive equipment, and once that is done (literally takes about 1-2s to drop an uplink or nanohive) what is supposed to be their purpose on the battlefield? If you think all logis should then pull out their rep tool and start repairing, then why would anyone run anything but Minmatar Logi? Simply for aesthetics? If a logi suit is supposed to spend the majority of their time repping, then there is almost no reason for any other logi suit to exist than the min logi, because it is specifically bonused for that. The Minmatar and Gallente logi suits are centered around active equipment, that is, equipment you spend most of your time using. The Caldari and Amarr logi suits are centered around passive equipment, which leaves them free to pursue other non logistics tasks like slaying. This also makes sense as both of these passive equipment are meant to be more around the frontline, the Caldari and Amarr Logi need their combat efficacy to protect their passive equipment. You need to think about each suits role on the field and how to better reinforce that idea. Gallente/Minmatar Active Equipment High Mobility Low combat efficiency High Logistics efficiency Amarr/Caldari Passive equipment Low mobility Moderate combat efficiency Low logistics efficiency If you remove the sidearm on Amarr logi and give them a 4th equip slot, they just become a poor copy of the Min/Gal suits. They still have low logistics efficacy because their bonuses are not designed for logistics efficiency. If you serious about type-II versions. Then you need to completely rethink the bonuses so that the high logistics efficiency variant has a bonus to active equipment and the combat efficiency variant has a bonus to passive equipment to better reinforce the role of each suit. You would essentially need to make a set of medic suits centered entirely around the nanite injector and rep tool. While the combat version would be around passive equipment like hives and links. Every suit would have close to the same bonus, and the flavor would come from the slot layout. You could give the combat logi a L/S and the medic an S or S/S setup and boost the speed and hp of the medic up substantially to reinforce the role that they should be running around repping and reviving. If you move forward with this as it is though, you will essentially render the non-Minmatar logi suits obsolete. I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. This I like
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 753	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:32:00 - [449] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Light damage mods is high on my list for Assault efficacy bonuses Can we have them moved to low powered slots too? Twitter MajLagSpike CPM Application
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 753	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:33:00 - [450] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Syeven Reed wrote: Maybe "abuse" is the wrong word but I do agree with them, placing a bed of hives and then swapping out to a heavy brick seems like a misuse of a bad mechanic? I don't think so. Even the situation you mentioned is easily counterable, flux the spot and spray. And i like having my options so if i see a tanked heavy siting in a nest of hives i can switch out to my mass drive min comando if he's in the open and pummel him from range or sneak behing his stationary butt and R.E. him in my gal scout or rep a friendly heavy as we charge his position in my winmatar logi or take him down my self in a sentinel with flux grendaes. Cant take my cal logi or a gal logi to fight him though. 1 way trip for the amar scout. And if they nerf the A logi sidearms i'll just have to throw my uplinks at him like frisebee buzzsaws How do you switch to your mass driver if he has the supply depot? Twitter MajLagSpike CPM Application

The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3490	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:36:00 - [451] - Quote How about you just give assaults a rate of fire bonus instead of the silly reload/dispersion etc? Like +5% rate of fire for each lvl that you got on a assault suit? I got that idea mainly from assault dropships cause they get aswell a rate of fire bonus. This wouldnt be a too big buff and would make assault viable over night. For example: -caldari assault: +5% rate of fire per lvl for railgun weapons (rail rifles, snipers and bolt pistols) -gallente assault: +5% rate of fire per lvl for blaster weapons (shotguns,AR, ion pistol. -minmatarr assault: +5% rate of fire per lvl for projectile weapons (combat rifle and SMG's) -ammarr assault: +5 rate of fire per lvl for laser weapons (scrambler, laser rifle etc.) And before you amarr assaults start to whine its head build up per second and not per bullet. Prime example for this are small rails on the incubus. The higher your lvl the more shots you can get off before overheating. This would aswell help the laser rifle out which is lackluster at the moment.
Byozuma Kegawa Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 288	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:39:00 - [452] - Quote I know I'm late to the discussion by about 22 pages but I have to question this. * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. Why remove the sidearm? I mean, it's bad enough we still only have three Amarr weapons after all this time but I actually use that sidearm slot (for one of said Amarr weapons). It's the thing that makes Amarr logistics worth using given the 'permanent armor plate' that all Amarr suits have. As a logistic I use a laser rifle and scrambler pistol. The laser rifle is very situational making the need for something not situational pretty high. And yes, I also carry a needle, repair tool and swap between uplink and nanohive. I have nothing against letting other logistics getting sidearms, but please don't take away the Amarr's. I'd even be willing to trade off another slot for it.
danie sous DUST BRASIL S.A Dark Taboo 7	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:41:00 - [453] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Thats all well and good IWS, but coming from someone who was a gallente logi from beta-the most recent respec, carrying a swarm with no sidearm is a death wish. The PLC is not very good at AV or anti-infantry, and the MD (although one of my favorite weapons) and laser are no where near the "AV" mark. If the PLC was in a better place you could get away with calling it the "logi's AV," but its not worth it. Swarms with a sidearm or nothing at all. So now I'm reduced to a repping forgers while the enemy team has AV. You take that back about the PLC it is an amazing AV weapon! Generally because most vehicle people don't realize how amazing of an AV weapon it is until its too late. pro hives, pro av nades and plc is a pretty decent logi av fit. Im with pl4gu3. Its one of my av fits.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2146	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:51:00 - [454] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: How about you just give assaults a rate of fire bonus instead of the silly reload/dispersion etc? Like +5% rate of fire for each lvl that you got on a assault suit? I got that idea mainly from assault dropships cause they get aswell a rate of fire bonus. This wouldnt be a too big buff and would make assault viable over night. For example: -caldari assault: +5% rate of fire per lvl for railgun weapons (rail rifles, snipers and bolt pistols) -gallente assault: +5% rate of fire per lvl for blaster weapons (shotguns,AR, ion pistol. -minmatarr assault: +5% rate of fire per lvl for projectile weapons (combat rifle and SMG's) -ammarr assault: +5 rate of fire per lvl for laser weapons (scrambler, laser rifle etc.) And before you amarr assaults start to whine its head build up per second and not per bullet. Prime example for this are small rails on the incubus. The higher your lvl the more shots you can get off before overheating. This would aswell help the laser rifle out which is lackluster at the moment. ROF is a dps increase. A 25% dps increase at lvl 5 suit operation is going to drive TTL through the floor. Not interested in going down that road again. PSN: RationalSpark
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10787	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:52:00 - [455] - Quote Syeven Reed wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Light damage mods is high on my list for Assault efficacy bonuses Can we have them moved to low powered slots too? So... Basically... Armor Assaults will be forced to dual tank? Because we don't have anything, count, ANYTHING other than extenders to put into high slots without damage mods. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Moonracer2000 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 819	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:54:00 - [456] - Quote Curious how logistic suits will be balanced out with equipment slots. Will they use whatever count proto has? I mean, I skilled into proto minmatar logistics for the 4 equipment slots. I don't want to lose that, but then again It would be kind of insane if my STD logi has 4 equipment slots! Yes to making codebreakers a high slot module!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 2628	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:54:00 - [457] - Quote Syeven Reed wrote: Can we have them [damage mods] moved to low powered slots too? Why would you want to move Damage Amps to Lows? They're one of the few useful Highs. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3925	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:00:00 - [458] - Quote Moonracer2000 wrote: Curious how logistic suits will be balanced out with equipment slots. Will they use whatever count proto has? I mean, I skilled into proto minmatar logistics for the 4 equipment slots. I don't want to lose that, but then again It would be kind of insane if my STD logi has 4 equipment slots! Yes to making codebreakers a high slot module! The same number of equipment per tier "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10789	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:03:00 - [459] - Quote Rubs against Rattati's leg Do not move damage mods to low slots D: Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3925	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:06:00 - [460] - Quote of course not "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15854	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:06:00 - [461] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Rubs against Rattati's leg Do not move damage mods to low slots D: Gimmie Infantry Ammo Cache that uses weapon upgrade skills for my low slots? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10789	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:08:00 - [462] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Rubs against Rattati's leg Do not move damage mods to low slots D: Gimmie Infantry Ammo Cache that uses weapon upgrade skills for my low slots? Le sigh Acceptable. Though ammo is my main concern running as an assault now-a-days, at least 50% of my time on the field I spend on searching for ammo. Which is why I bring an ammo mule with me whenever I squad. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
NanoCleric The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 121	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:10:00 - [463] - Quote Sigh, i'll try again.. Rattati.. can you look into the problem of modded input? In terms of extremely fast strafing, and also to ensure you don't run the autoaim routine for each press when it's using rapid fire? I've posted more info on this previously.. pg 16, post 316 i think it was..
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10789	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:10:00 - [464] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: of course not It appears that the cat tactic of leg rubbing has worked... Rubs against Rattati's leg Give myofibril stimulants a speed bonus Meow Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Al the destroyer Vengeance Unbound 161	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:11:00 - [465] - Quote Al the destroyer wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: possible rearrangements, not more slots. Please clarify pg of A-logi suit I personally like the idea of removing sidearm for equipment but I am against it if you don't make the pg the same as the other logis ?? Just wondering if you have considered the pg of the A-logi yet AMERICA! WITHOUT US YOU WOULD HAVE NO ONE TO LOOK UP TO. GET SUM!
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2146	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:14:00 - [466] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: A small idea I had. How about increasing light weapon fitting requirements by 35%, and giving Assaults/Commandos a corresponding fitting reduction? Sidearms become a low CPU/PG option for non slayer suits, Heavies will be less likely to use those with the CPU/PG reduction and Heavy weapon fitting bonuses. This makes Sidearm vs Light weapon an actual choice, rather than some fun fitting you run once in a while. Non slayer suits that want the same slaying power would have to do sacrifices, just like non scouts trying to fit cloaks. I'll give you that a draconian increase in fitting requirements would affect player behavior and force them into the suits/roles that you and Rattati apparently want them in. But it comes at a great cost, as freedom of fitting is one of the things that reviews consistently mention as one of DUST's strengths. You might argue that it is, in principle, possible to fit out-of-class, but the funneling of players into mainstream roles is obvious. Making fitting choices prohibitively expensive is a negative approach to the problem, and for my money will not increase the quality of the player experience, but rather will contribute to a feeling of reduced player agency in defining a role for themselves. Perhaps in the end your negative/bureaucratic/legislative approach will be necessary, but it is definitely too early for us to go ahead and pay that cost now. The creative approach must be attempted first, and that means crafting a role for the assaults that is attractive to players, that is not overpowered, and that adds to the gameplay. tl:dr Let's do our best to make the Assault role an attractive choice before we star imposing arbitrary fitting costs designed to funnel player choice into somebody's idea of what a role should be. PSN: RationalSpark
Al the destroyer Vengeance Unbound 161	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:15:00 - [467] - Quote Al the destroyer wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: possible rearrangements, not more slots. Please clarify pg of A-logi suit I personally like the idea of removing sidearm for equipment but I am against it if you don't make the pg the same as the other logis ?? AMERICA! WITHOUT US YOU WOULD HAVE NO ONE TO LOOK UP TO. GET SUM!
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10789	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:16:00 - [468] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A small idea I had. How about increasing light weapon fitting requirements by 35%, and giving Assaults/Commandos a corresponding fitting reduction? Sidearms become a low CPU/PG option for non slayer suits, Heavies will be less likely to use those with the CPU/PG reduction and Heavy weapon fitting bonuses. This makes Sidearm vs Light weapon an actual choice, rather than some fun fitting you run once in a while. Non slayer suits that want the same slaying power would have to do sacrifices, just like non scouts trying to fit cloaks. I'll give you that a draconian increase in fitting requirements would affect player behavior and force them into the suits/roles that you and Rattati apparently want them in. But it comes at a great cost, as freedom of fitting is one of the things that reviews consistently mention as one of DUST's strengths. You might argue that it is, in principle, possible to fit out-of-class, but the funneling of players into mainstream roles is obvious. Making fitting choices prohibitively expensive is a negative approach to the problem, and for my money will not increase the quality of the player experience, but rather will contribute to a feeling of reduced player agency in defining a role for themselves. Perhaps in the end your negative/bureaucratic/legislative approach will be necessary, but it is definitely too early for us to go ahead and pay that cost now. The creative approach must be attempted first, and that means crafting a role for the assaults that is attractive to players, that is not overpowered, and that adds to the gameplay. tl:dr Let's do our best to make the Assault role an attractive choice before we star imposing arbitrary fitting costs designed to funnel player choice into somebody's idea of what a role should be. The last how many builds? Have proven that this approach is necessary. Besies, this creates MORE choices. There is no choice between a sidearm and a light weapon, all suits have buttloads of CPU/PG and light weapons are easy to fit. Now if you want a powerful light weapon (proto), you have to make sacrifices in other areas. There is no choice if you can do everything to the max at the same time. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Jaran Vilktar The Gauldar Tactical Alliance 5	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:17:00 - [469] - Quote Darn it! I'm always late to comment on these posts! Oh well, just got one thing to ask for though. PLEASE change the +1% Bonus to Scan Radius per level on the Gallente Scout for something that's actually an appealing and usefull bonus, the +3% Bonus to Scan Profile Dampening is fine as it is but the Scan Radius Bonus is an absolute JOKE! Perhaps substituting it with a passive bonus that mixes well with dampening such as Hacking Speed or some bonus to the usage of modules on the dropsuit would be a better choice. PLEASE! I KNOW anyone else who plays Gallente Scout would agree with me that literally ANY bonus would be preferable over a total of a +5% Bonus to Scan Radius on a Maxed-Out Skill. DUST 514 Is the first FPS I played actively for the PS3 and is my favorite FPS to this very day. :)
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11345	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:20:00 - [470] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Me and Cat have suggested revisions to some of the current assault bonuses and have made our suggestions, are there any plans to do any assault bonus changes in Charlie or future hotfixes? if so, can you share any? I think that the addition of a slot to Amarr Assault, on top of their high PG/CPU has shown how effective a fitting buff can be. We will be looking better at efficacy bonuses in Delta. I was concerned about the racial bonuses of the Caldari and Gallente assaults. Any plan to change those specific bonuses? 1 A) The Caldari assault reload bonus is pretty crappy considering the Caldari commando gets the same reload bonus in addition to a damage bonus. I have a Gallente assault level 5 alt account, and I find the Gallente assault bonus almost unnoticeable on my AR. 1 B) Both the Amarr and Minmatar assaults have good bonuses; allows them to keep shooting longer before stopping from overheat/magazine-depletion. I would suggest giving the Gallente and Caldari assault magazine size bonuses to their racial weapons. 2) I noticed earlier you mentioned you won't be giving assaults more slots, can you give us an approximate number of how much HP you would give assaults? 3 A) Would it be possible to make some bonuses not tied to skills? example, all assaults having a built-in 15% efficacy modifier to damage mods? I would love these sorts of built-in bonuses. 3 B) If possible, can you do it? 4) Are you still planning on the removal of the Amarr logi sidearm, and giving it more equipment in exchange? Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+

The-DON of-DOT-MAFIA The DOT MAFIA 42	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:29:00 - [471] - Quote please, please, please make squad scanning vision aka wall hack go away! This game will be so much improved. Could the assaults get a "little" scan range or precision increases that parallel racial scouts.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 520	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:32:00 - [472] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Can I haz Type II Assault? I miss chromosome I see Type II suits mentioned multiple times in this thread. What did they do? Edit: Vrain Matari wrote: ROF is a dps increase. A 25% dps increase at lvl 5 suit operation is going to drive TTL through the floor. Not interested in going down that road again. It does differentiate Assault and Commando, though. RoF isn't a flat DPS increase, but instead a trade of sustained fire for damage output. It forces earlier reloads. Meanwhile, Commandos get more flat damage. Essentially, this would mean that Commandos are about using their armor and dual light weapons to prolong fights and suppress enemies, while Assaults are the ones doing killing blows with their high DPS, nimble feet and grenades. If we go from this, we might actually differentiate the roles properly.
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 748	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:57:00 - [473] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance. The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. I'm reposting this from another thread in hopes that either your or Logibro will read it. You guys need to stop and ask yourselves what the role of the Caldari and Amarr logistics is on the field. They both drop passive equipment, and once that is done (literally takes about 1-2s to drop an uplink or nanohive) what is supposed to be their purpose on the battlefield? If you think all logis should then pull out their rep tool and start repairing, then why would anyone run anything but Minmatar Logi? Simply for aesthetics? If a logi suit is supposed to spend the majority of their time repping, then there is almost no reason for any other logi suit to exist than the min logi, because it is specifically bonused for that. The Minmatar and Gallente logi suits are centered around active equipment, that is, equipment you spend most of your time using. The Caldari and Amarr logi suits are centered around passive equipment, which leaves them free to pursue other non logistics tasks like slaying. This also makes sense as both of these passive equipment are meant to be more around the frontline, the Caldari and Amarr Logi need their combat efficacy to protect their passive equipment. You need to think about each suits role on the field and how to better reinforce that idea. Gallente/Minmatar Active Equipment High Mobility Low combat efficiency High Logistics efficiency Amarr/Caldari Passive equipment Low mobility Moderate combat efficiency Low logistics efficiency If you remove the sidearm on Amarr logi and give them a 4th equip slot, they just become a poor copy of the Min/Gal suits. They still have low logistics efficacy because their bonuses are not designed for logistics efficiency. If you serious about type-II versions. Then you need to completely rethink the bonuses so that the high logistics efficiency variant has a bonus to active equipment and the combat efficiency variant has a bonus to passive equipment to better reinforce the role of each suit. You would essentially need to make a set of medic suits centered entirely around the nanite injector and rep tool. While the combat version would be around passive equipment like hives and links. Every suit would have close to the same bonus, and the flavor would come from the slot layout. You could give the combat logi a L/S and the medic an S or S/S setup and boost the speed and hp of the medic up substantially to reinforce the role that they should be running around repping and reviving. If you move forward with this as it is though, you will essentially render the non-Minmatar logi suits obsolete. I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. This is a great Idea, it makes perfect since. I have always been a Logi first (doc in my name right?) and the Cal Logi is the only one I only skilled to 4 and only skilled it at all because of the Hive Bonus. Partially because of the old Killer Bee hatred, but mostly becuase the suit had no purpose to me when compaire to the other 3 which have very distictive places. Give it a sidearm, I'll finally have a reason to run it. But getting back to the real subject at hand, Assault Buff. The question that comes up that deserves the most though and community feedback is "What BONUS to the Assault would be attractive enough for you to leave your current suit?" So going from the thought that the Assault is suppose to be the best at killing people on the front lines, what bonuses make since to that role? So in my mind, this comes down to one thing which is Gun Game. Not tank, not mobility, not surviveability, just straight Gun Game. Things in general that support your Gun Game are Range, Damage, Dispersion/Accuracy, and Reload or Susstained Fire. Each of these things the Assault Suit and by extension the Assault Heavy (Commando) Should be NOTICABLY better at. Stick with me for a moment on this. How noticable is the inherent ewar bonus the Scouts have? A little or a lot? How noticable is the Heavy's EHP?, or the Logis versitility? Currently, the bonuses to Assault's Gun Game are correct, they just arn't Noticalbe! I don't want to go into the who's should get which bonuses, but I think they should be something that when you have or read in stats you say to yourself "Damn that's awesome" So how about something along the lines of: Total reload bonus = 50% or more Range bonus = 15% or more (whatever would take the effective range into Optimal range for each weapon) Damage Bonus = Total %10 minimum, maybe more. Enough to jump a weapons power 2 tears and can't be negated by a different suit with a damage mod. Dispersion/Accuracy/Kick = enough to make the RR fire like an SMG Ammo/Mag size = What is it 15% now for Min? Make if 50% My point here is that I love FPS games, but no Assault (except for the Amarr's overhead bonus) has ever made me WANT one of their bonus. I feel like my natural Gun Game can easily compensate for the lack of having any of the Assault bonuses. I mean, for real, I am an FPS player with 60 mil SP and I don't have a single SP in Assault suits! Offer me one of the above and you'll sell me. And before you scream "But TTK!" There is only like 5 Assaults in the game. Lets get players hooked first, then tone them down. It worked for Scouts! YouTube
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 664	Posted - 2014.07.10 17:05:00 - [474] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: snip The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance. The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. Where did the "Let's ask the community what the biggest problems are and fix them"-approach go? All I see is "I want this changed. Deal with it." Grand Master Kubo wrote: I strongly suggest removing one equipment slot from scouts. This is coming from someone who has used scouts for over a year. Giving scouts two equipment slots makes them too versatile. Scouts do not need two equipment slots. I support undoing as many Scout-buffs from 1.8 as possible. Scouts were pretty much fine before 1.8 deployed, adding the cloak would've been sufficient in itself. The dark cloud wrote: Assaults are not beeing used because literally every other suit category is better. And nerfing the only other medium frame suit is not going to make them viable. Honestly when you nerfbat logis you will only create more heavys and scouts and then the circlejerk is complete. It seems like the completely wrong move to me too.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15858	Posted - 2014.07.10 17:23:00 - [475] - Quote Sole Fenychs wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Can I haz Type II Assault? I miss chromosome I see Type II suits mentioned multiple times in this thread. What did they do? Edit: Vrain Matari wrote: ROF is a dps increase. A 25% dps increase at lvl 5 suit operation is going to drive TTL through the floor. Not interested in going down that road again. It does differentiate Assault and Commando, though. RoF isn't a flat DPS increase, but instead a trade of sustained fire for damage output. It forces earlier reloads. Meanwhile, Commandos get more flat damage. Essentially, this would mean that Commandos are about using their armor and dual light weapons to prolong fights and suppress enemies, while Assaults are the ones doing killing blows with their high DPS, nimble feet and grenades. If we go from this, we might actually differentiate the roles properly. Type IIs are a different variant of the suit that has the same role as the type I but drastically different slot layout. For example a Type II assault may have a second EQ slot but gives up all but 1 of its non tank slots for it. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2146	Posted - 2014.07.10 17:28:00 - [476] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Cat Merc wrote: ...stuff... ...counter stuff... The last how many builds? Have proven that this approach is necessary. -What approach? I know of only two fitting restrictions on infantry: Heavy weapons and the cloak. In both cases we are dealing with specialized and powerful items and the restictions/requirements make perfect sense in terms of both gameplay and immersion. Light weapons are bread and butter on the battlefield. Besies, this creates MORE choices. - Actually, it creates one trivial choice based on fitting costs. This adds to player agency and gameplay how? There is no choice between a sidearm and a light weapon, all suits have buttloads of CPU/PG and light weapons are easy to fit. - I run Minmatar, so i have no idea what you are talking about. Maybe what you're really saying is that the other races have too much CPU/PG? Now if you want a powerful light weapon (proto), you have to make sacrifices in other areas. - See above. Also, it sounds to me you're speaking from the point of view of a vet with fully maxxed fitting skills. There is no choice if you can do everything to the max at the same time. -Agree. But if that's the case, what makes more sense: to look at the fitting capacity of the suits themselves, or to restrict player agency to impose class distinctions that should be supported in interesting ways by the suit's inherent bonuses? I choose the latter. PSN: RationalSpark
David Spd Caldari State 143	Posted - 2014.07.10 17:29:00 - [477] - Quote I'm confused as to why this patch is primarily aimed at changing Assault suits, yet nobody seems to be talking about anything other than Logistics. Could we please get back to discussing Assault suits so that the suit with very little purpose (and has always had little purpose) can FINALLY see some substantial uses? Logistics are cool and all, but couldn't we make them a focus of a later patch and focus instead on the initial points? --> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <-- "Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 748	Posted - 2014.07.10 17:31:00 - [478] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Sole Fenychs wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Can I haz Type II Assault? I miss chromosome I see Type II suits mentioned multiple times in this thread. What did they do? Edit: Vrain Matari wrote: ROF is a dps increase. A 25% dps increase at lvl 5 suit operation is going to drive TTL through the floor. Not interested in going down that road again. It does differentiate Assault and Commando, though. RoF isn't a flat DPS increase, but instead a trade of sustained fire for damage output. It forces earlier reloads. Meanwhile, Commandos get more flat damage. Essentially, this would mean that Commandos are about using their armor and dual light weapons to prolong fights and suppress enemies, while Assaults are the ones doing killing blows with their high DPS, nimble feet and grenades. If we go from this, we might actually differentiate the roles properly. Type IIs are a different variant of the suit that has the same role as the type I but drastically different slot layout. For example a Type II assault may have a second EQ slot but gives up all but 1 of its non tank slots for it. The Type IIs in Beta were the Shield variants. The scout had a second equipment slot but game up its side arm, if you want more Dust examples. You could consider the commando a type II heavy frame. YouTube
lee corwood Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 898	Posted - 2014.07.10 17:33:00 - [479] - Quote David Spd wrote: I'm confused as to why this patch is primarily aimed at changing Assault suits, yet nobody seems to be talking about anything other than Logistics. Could we please get back to discussing Assault suits so that the suit with very little purpose (and has always had little purpose) can FINALLY see some substantial uses? Logistics are cool and all, but couldn't we make them a focus of a later patch and focus instead on the initial points? I would rather logistics not be included in this patch simply because it seems the aim of the changes are to balances out suits across each other. I agree assaults need some love. Let's not repeat double balancing so that it destroys two classes horribly instead of tinkering one and reviewing the affects. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2146	Posted - 2014.07.10 17:33:00 - [480] - Quote David Spd wrote: I'm confused as to why this patch is primarily aimed at changing Assault suits, yet nobody seems to be talking about anything other than Logistics. Could we please get back to discussing Assault suits so that the suit with very little purpose (and has always had little purpose) can FINALLY see some substantial uses? Logistics are cool and all, but couldn't we make them a focus of a later patch and focus instead on the initial points? Agreed. So far we've seen precious few peeps talking about what they want the Assault to be. PSN: RationalSpark

CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1267	Posted - 2014.07.10 17:35:00 - [481] - Quote CCP Rattati..... I really appreciate the time you are taking to discuss with us here in the community as well as address issues that are coming up. I have saw two or three things that worry me however. Firstly - Reducing Sentinel PG/CPU. I have no idea what it is like for the Armour guys but seriously The Caldari sentinel already has a hard time trying to fit out a full shield tank. (Regulators, rechargers / energizers) while using proto forge and proto sidearms. (I am a forger no idea about HMG`s). I would urge caution as making the Caldari Sentinel even weaker in terms of PG/CPU would be a bad idea I feel. (CPU issues mainly) Secondly - I saw that you mentioned about the Amarr scout becoming a short range good scanner and the Caldari scout being the long range scanner. I am very worried about this. The Gallente scout was supposed to be the long range passive scanner (while having not as powerful scans). The Caldari scout was meant to have shorter range passive scans yet with a higher precision. It seems like you are flipping roles on their heads and I do not understand. I would appreciate clarification here please. Lastly - The Amarr Logistics having a sidearm was the selling point of that suit. The uplink bonus is pretty weak on its own. Also being an Amarr suit, removal of the sidearm would also in my humble opinion limit the usefulness of the Single shot scrambler rifle (due to overheat issues) as well as the Laser Rifle... (Again due to overheat issues with no side arm to switch to in dire times). MY LIFE FOR AIUR! Protoss You gonna' give me orders? Terran "Cat got your tongue? Zerg Queen of Blades.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10792	Posted - 2014.07.10 17:35:00 - [482] - Quote Quote: - Actually, it creates one trivial choice based on fitting costs. This adds to player agency and gameplay how? How is it trivial? Why do you think CPU/PG exists in the first place? In EVE, fitting a full rack of T2 weapons comes at a great cost of other modules. In DUST you fit a proto weapon and just lolololol more proto! Also, if you don't try to kin cat or use codebreakers on the Minnie scout, it still has buttloads of CPU/PG. Quote: -Agree. But if that's the case, what makes more sense: to look at the fitting capacity of the suits themselves, or to restrict player agency to impose class distinctions that should be supported in interesting ways by the suit's inherent bonuses? I choose the latter. Both do the EXACT same thing in different ways. One requires changing every suit, the other requires changing one class of weapons. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2158	Posted - 2014.07.10 17:39:00 - [483] - Quote Biggest issue... Is I have been through the Installation buff and unbuff process in DUST through the nearly two years.. And we have touched upon them probably over 8 times. It's not that the A.I. vs infantry needs to be addressed. It's actually really good, specially if you shoot it with your weapon it will turn around and blap you like your standing still. We want the turrets to be giant points of contention for infantry fights.. We want to create a somewhat focal point to the necessity of it to control that part of the map. So somehow it needs the A.I. Cranked up on all vehicles and then the health value and shield recharge rate increased by significant amounts. Blasters need the same bullet spread as tank blasters. This will create the NEED to actually capture or use team work to remove it as a threat. *****P.S*** Please, please. If you do anything with turrets. Can you remove some of the absolutely useless Missile turrets that cause so much hate and anger in squad comms no matter on my 2m sp alt in a new player corporation or on this character with some vets. There is a Missile turret on Ashlands that sits between two building structures that couldn't get a proper hit on anything if it tries.. Then it sits out of reach of a supply depot and neighboring turret structure that it fires endlessly at for no reason. Just remove it. please. please. please. over a year ... it is time...
Denesian Morenti The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 24	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:01:00 - [484] - Quote Just want to say: THANK YOU RATTATI!!!! It's so nice to see Dust getting the corrections it so rightly deserved! I like my raspberries melted with a side of ice cream.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15859	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:03:00 - [485] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Sole Fenychs wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Can I haz Type II Assault? I miss chromosome I see Type II suits mentioned multiple times in this thread. What did they do? Edit: Vrain Matari wrote: ROF is a dps increase. A 25% dps increase at lvl 5 suit operation is going to drive TTL through the floor. Not interested in going down that road again. It does differentiate Assault and Commando, though. RoF isn't a flat DPS increase, but instead a trade of sustained fire for damage output. It forces earlier reloads. Meanwhile, Commandos get more flat damage. Essentially, this would mean that Commandos are about using their armor and dual light weapons to prolong fights and suppress enemies, while Assaults are the ones doing killing blows with their high DPS, nimble feet and grenades. If we go from this, we might actually differentiate the roles properly. Type IIs are a different variant of the suit that has the same role as the type I but drastically different slot layout. For example a Type II assault may have a second EQ slot but gives up all but 1 of its non tank slots for it. The Type IIs in Beta were the Shield variants. The scout had a second equipment slot but game up its side arm, if you want more Dust examples. You could consider the commando a type II heavy frame. Type IIs back then was a way to try to provide racial placeholders to say. Type II in this case would be an more elegant solution considering that you now get two choices in a suit. Do you go with the one with sidearm or one without? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 415	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:14:00 - [486] - Quote The True Inferno wrote: For the Assualt skill, could it not be focused on the racial weapons, as this limits freedom. It should be focused on the suit, such as th old ones were, such as, the 25 % sheild bonus we found on the caldari assault, instead of the weapons(freaked reload speed) not having racial bonuses allows lesser beings to contaminate the races with outlandish fittings. in other words, having racial bonuses encourages players to use specific items on specific suits. this allows for easier balancing, as "correct" fits will be easy to predict. its done that way in eve online. the freedom you speak of come from not being forced to fit according to bonuses, at the cost of lesser general effective use of the suit. i think all item should have bonuses of reduce fitting costs when used with racial dropsuits. it would give more distinction between the races
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 415	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:16:00 - [487] - Quote Denesian Morenti wrote: Just want to say: THANK YOU RATTATI!!!! It's so nice to see Dust getting the corrections it so rightly deserved! we needed this back in beta
RedPencil DUST University Ivy League 24	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:19:00 - [488] - Quote Can you increase walking speed when equip knife?
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 520	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:25:00 - [489] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: The True Inferno wrote: For the Assualt skill, could it not be focused on the racial weapons, as this limits freedom. It should be focused on the suit, such as th old ones were, such as, the 25 % sheild bonus we found on the caldari assault, instead of the weapons(freaked reload speed) not having racial bonuses allows lesser beings to contaminate the races with outlandish fittings. in other words, having racial bonuses encourages players to use specific items on specific suits. this allows for easier balancing, as "correct" fits will be easy to predict. its done that way in eve online. the freedom you speak of come from not being forced to fit according to bonuses, at the cost of lesser general effective use of the suit. i think all item should have bonuses of reduce fitting costs when used with racial dropsuits. it would give more distinction between the races So, basically, you want to make the fitting system into a pointless gimmick. There is no point in customization if there's an optimal way of doing things. Unfortunately, Dust doesn't have the necessary systems in place to allow for racial synergies of loadouts, instead of doing hacky bonuses.
Denesian Morenti The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 24	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:28:00 - [490] - Quote Doyle Reese wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3% 1-2-3 HP/s repaired? ....or 1-2-3% armor resists!!! it's %, so it's likely to be speed penalties, which I'm not down with, Reactive Plates are still the worst plates there is No, it's a repair buff. basic = 1hps advanced = 2hps proto = 3hps I like my raspberries melted with a side of ice cream.

Denesian Morenti The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 24	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:29:00 - [491] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Denesian Morenti wrote: Just want to say: THANK YOU RATTATI!!!! It's so nice to see Dust getting the corrections it so rightly deserved! we needed this back in beta I agree, but better late....really late, than never. I like my raspberries melted with a side of ice cream.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6224	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:40:00 - [492] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. So, if the Amarr Logi has a sidearm it's an inconsistency and doesn't need to be unique among the flock like Grenade Commandos or what have you... ...but it's totally cool if the Caldari Logi has a sidearm. That's racist. In all seriousness though, why go through this big hoopla to convince the community that removal of the sidearm on the Amarr Logi is necessary and all that jazz just to turn around and go against that very same logic in favor of the Caldari Logistics? I mean, if you're wanting to convince people that CCP isn't showing favoritism toward Caldari you're doing a terrible job Okay, okay, I'm sorry - I'll try not to be so sarcastic anymore, but you make it really difficult. ...but seriously, you really need to stick to one train of thought.... or at the very least, not post it in the same thread that you suggested taking the sidearm away from one of the other logistics. Disappointed in you now, Rattati Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5308	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:42:00 - [493] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. So, if the Amarr Logi has a sidearm it's an inconsistency and doesn't need to be unique among the flock like Grenade Commandos or what have you... ...but it's totally cool if the Caldari Logi has a sidearm. That's racist. In all seriousness though, why go through this big hoopla to convince the community that removal of the sidearm on the Amarr Logi is necessary and all that jazz just to turn around and go against that very same logic in favor of the Caldari Logistics? I mean, if you're wanting to convince people that CCP isn't showing favoritism toward Caldari you're doing a terrible job Okay, okay, I'm sorry - I'll try not to be so sarcastic anymore, but you make it really difficult. ...but seriously, you really need to stick to one train of thought.... or at the very least, not post it in the same thread that you suggested taking the sidearm away from one of the other logistics. Disappointed in you now, Rattati EVE: Nerf everything and buff Minmatar Dust 514: Nerf everything and buff Caldari I kid, I kid. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 520	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:44:00 - [494] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. So, if the Amarr Logi has a sidearm it's an inconsistency and doesn't need to be unique among the flock like Grenade Commandos or what have you... ...but it's totally cool if the Caldari Logi has a sidearm. That's racist. In all seriousness though, why go through this big hoopla to convince the community that removal of the sidearm on the Amarr Logi is necessary and all that jazz just to turn around and go against that very same logic in favor of the Caldari Logistics? I mean, if you're wanting to convince people that CCP isn't showing favoritism toward Caldari you're doing a terrible job Okay, okay, I'm sorry - I'll try not to be so sarcastic anymore, but you make it really difficult. ...but seriously, you really need to stick to one train of thought.... or at the very least, not post it in the same thread that you suggested taking the sidearm away from one of the other logistics. Disappointed in you now, Rattati Dude, he's asking for feedback and listened to a valid point. Did you somehow miss the point of the thread? Hint: It's not about pretending that there's community input.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6224	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:46:00 - [495] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. So, if the Amarr Logi has a sidearm it's an inconsistency and doesn't need to be unique among the flock like Grenade Commandos or what have you... ...but it's totally cool if the Caldari Logi has a sidearm. That's racist. In all seriousness though, why go through this big hoopla to convince the community that removal of the sidearm on the Amarr Logi is necessary and all that jazz just to turn around and go against that very same logic in favor of the Caldari Logistics? I mean, if you're wanting to convince people that CCP isn't showing favoritism toward Caldari you're doing a terrible job Okay, okay, I'm sorry - I'll try not to be so sarcastic anymore, but you make it really difficult. ...but seriously, you really need to stick to one train of thought.... or at the very least, not post it in the same thread that you suggested taking the sidearm away from one of the other logistics. Disappointed in you now, Rattati EVE: Nerf everything and buff Minmatar Dust 514: Nerf everything and buff Caldari I kid, I kid. Yeah, I know, it's too easy to joke about, but it really does make a vein twitch when that post was the first thing I read after waking up considering the huge amount of [redacted] that got stirred up last night upon the announcement that we were even -considering- removal of the sidearm on the A-Logi. Makes me wonder what the real reason for removing the sidearm on the A-Logi is in the first place if it isn't to have consistency among the Logistics, but I might be tin-foiling. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6449	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:58:00 - [496] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. So, if the Amarr Logi has a sidearm it's an inconsistency and doesn't need to be unique among the flock like Grenade Commandos or what have you... ...but it's totally cool if the Caldari Logi has a sidearm. That's racist. In all seriousness though, why go through this big hoopla to convince the community that removal of the sidearm on the Amarr Logi is necessary and all that jazz just to turn around and go against that very same logic in favor of the Caldari Logistics? I mean, if you're wanting to convince people that CCP isn't showing favoritism toward Caldari you're doing a terrible job Okay, okay, I'm sorry - I'll try not to be so sarcastic anymore, but you make it really difficult. ...but seriously, you really need to stick to one train of thought.... or at the very least, not post it in the same thread that you suggested taking the sidearm away from one of the other logistics. Disappointed in you now, Rattati I've been saying this since day one. CCP has a blatant, disgusting, favoritism to the Caldari. see you space cowboy...
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 749	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:58:00 - [497] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Type IIs back then was a way to try to provide racial placeholders to say. Type II in this case would be an more elegant solution considering that you now get two choices in a suit. Do you go with the one with sidearm or one without? I don't agree with you often IWS, but on this thought I am 100% with you. My fear is that adding a whole new line of Type II Logi suits would be a little more work that what could fit in a Hotfix, and could really put balance into a tailspin when we are so close to stablization for the fist time in Dust. I think a lot more thought than current resources would allow ATM is required before this could be done. However, in effect, we do have a Sudo Type II Logi suit that much of the community loves and no one seems to really want to change. The arguement that removing it helps Assaults is only going to make the amarr Logis AND the Assaults mad because it's still doesn't fix the Assaults. I do think giving the Cal Logi a side arm and removing a slot in return is a Great idea. That would make since for the current gap of a type II playstyle that the community has proven time and time again they enjoy, and only 1 suit that fills the role. As for the Assaults, listen to the community, give the Assault advocates what they want, make them OP for a time if need if nothing other than to get players interested in them for the first time since launch. Because I'm sure that little minor, delicate tweets just isn't going to be enough to put people into a 1 trick pony role unless that pony's trick is backflips! YouTube
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3495	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:02:00 - [498] - Quote I say it again we need a DPS buff for assaults. Slayers= high DPS and my 25% rate of fire buff is the most reasonable option to complete the roles on the game which we have currently: -scouts= flanking/intel -logis= team support with equipment -heavys= point defence with high DPS up close and lots of HP -assaults= faster then heavys but with similar DPS but much less HP (with my proposal of 5% rate of fire per lvl ofcourse) So what would be the issue here? Logis hiding behind heavy allready, scouts only attack from the side/back and heavys still have their HMG and tons of HP. Assaults should be capable to compete at least to a extend with heavys in terms of DPS otherwise there is no option for them. And you guys seem to forget that assaults cannot effectively use a cloak and cant really scan like scouts and to take it even further they have less HP then a heavy. Let them have the DPS. PS: they wouldnt overlapp with commandos cause assaults can carry only 1 light weapon. Which means swarm launcher/Rifle combo is a no go. Oh and the caldari assault would help out snipers to get more shots off quicker.
Fizzer94 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2882	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:03:00 - [499] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. So, if the Amarr Logi has a sidearm it's an inconsistency and doesn't need to be unique among the flock like Grenade Commandos or what have you... ...but it's totally cool if the Caldari Logi has a sidearm. That's racist. In all seriousness though, why go through this big hoopla to convince the community that removal of the sidearm on the Amarr Logi is necessary and all that jazz just to turn around and go against that very same logic in favor of the Caldari Logistics? I mean, if you're wanting to convince people that CCP isn't showing favoritism toward Caldari you're doing a terrible job Okay, okay, I'm sorry - I'll try not to be so sarcastic anymore, but you make it really difficult. ...but seriously, you really need to stick to one train of thought.... or at the very least, not post it in the same thread that you suggested taking the sidearm away from one of the other logistics. Disappointed in you now, Rattati I've been saying this since day one. CCP has a blatant, disgusting, favoritism to the Caldari. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The Caldari have as many sidearms(3) as the Amarr have total weapons(3). My best match on Dust, 23/6/4 Placon. Please unnerf ScPs and fix IoPs...
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6225	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:05:00 - [500] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: I do think giving the Cal Logi a side arm and removing a slot in return is a Great idea. That would make since for the current gap of a type II playstyle that the community has proven time and time again they enjoy, and only 1 suit that fills the role. Buuuuuuut we already have a suit that does that. It's teh A-Logi! I dunno, maybe I'm missing something. Like, having a Logistics with a sidearm isn't something new - I don't understand why the Cal Logi is a much more perfect contender when it's already one of the more powerful Logi's in the game and has been for some time. Saying that it would make sense for the current gap of a Type-II playstyle... When we already have a suit that has that... I dunno, just seems like a flawed argument. I can't understand why we're saying that having a sidearm is this giant pipe wrench in balance (and I even agreed!) and then turn around and pretend it wouldn't be a problem on the Cal Logi. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6452	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:08:00 - [501] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I do think giving the Cal Logi a side arm and removing a slot in return is a Great idea. That would make since for the current gap of a type II playstyle that the community has proven time and time again they enjoy, and only 1 suit that fills the role. Buuuuuuut we already have a suit that does that. It's teh A-Logi! I dunno, maybe I'm missing something. Like, having a Logistics with a sidearm isn't something new - I don't understand why the Cal Logi is a much more perfect contender when it's already one of the more powerful Logi's in the game and has been for some time. Saying that it would make sense for the current gap of a Type-II playstyle... When we already have a suit that has that... I dunno, just seems like a flawed argument. I can't understand why we're saying that having a sidearm is this giant pipe wrench in balance (and I even agreed!) and then turn around and pretend it wouldn't be a problem on the Cal Logi. Nothing makes sense anymore. I feel like I'm in some novel where I'm having a nightmare and mostly everyone on Earth is stupid. see you space cowboy...
shagnasty91 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 2	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:12:00 - [502] - Quote What if you increased light weapon reload time for all light weapons. Give the Assault class the same bonus as the Commandos in reload speed and give Scouts and Logis a bonus to sidearms.
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 253	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:25:00 - [503] - Quote shagnasty91 wrote: What if you increased light weapon reload time for all light weapons. Give the Assault class the same bonus as the Commandos in reload speed and give Scouts and Logis a bonus to sidearms. Not to be rude but this is a flawed idea. Why would Assaults have the same bonus as ANOTHER class, when the Commando class can then out DPS them? Scouts getting a bonus to sidearms...no. Scouts will still use their light weapons, so I don't know how this would entice them. If anything, they'll wound you with their Light weapon and just finish you off quicker with their Submachine Gun so that isn't a good idea. Logi getting a bonus to Sidearms, I'm not putting a Bolt Pistol on my Proto Minmatar Logi. I NEVER will put a Sidearm on my Minmatar Logi. Another flawed idea This is how the suits work: Assaults kill Scouts because they can keep firing long past when a scout has to reload. They also keep the frontline up because they lay down suppressive fire. Commandos are Assault's big brother. They slay extremely quickly and can reload to dispatch targets in quick succession. Drawbacks: Slower to arrive and they run out of ammo quickly. Heavies can easily kill Commandos and Assaults with their massive HMGs and their DPS, IF they are skilled before their gun overheats Logis keep heavies alive and cover their while their gun cools down. Slightly faster than Commandos, Slots allow them to keep up with Assaults if they put on some Kincats, or tank and become Commandos minus DPS and Second gun Scouts, the bane of Heavies. They flank around and are harder to hit. Downside, (and I think this would balance the suit), they have less ammo in their guns. This would endorse non tanked Scouts to RE and shot gun, which they already do. Tanked out scouts like the Amarr or Slayer Gallentes would be hampered because they get less rounds to fire fight you with. Assaults would win these engagements if skilled because they can keep firing while Scouts reload. From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
Tomate Pote LATINOS KILLERS CORP Dark Taboo 3	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:26:00 - [504] - Quote And the biggest question is... There will be another Skill Reset ? Tomate Pote, Logi Aidualc , Scout Maxnami, Fatty
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 253	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:29:00 - [505] - Quote Doubtful they'll be a skill reset. From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 749	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:29:00 - [506] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I do think giving the Cal Logi a side arm and removing a slot in return is a Great idea. That would make since for the current gap of a type II playstyle that the community has proven time and time again they enjoy, and only 1 suit that fills the role. Buuuuuuut we already have a suit that does that. It's teh A-Logi! I dunno, maybe I'm missing something. Like, having a Logistics with a sidearm isn't something new - I don't understand why the Cal Logi is a much more perfect contender when it's already one of the more powerful Logi's in the game and has been for some time. Saying that it would make sense for the current gap of a Type-II playstyle... When we already have a suit that has that... I dunno, just seems like a flawed argument. I can't understand why we're saying that having a sidearm is this giant pipe wrench in balance (and I even agreed!) and then turn around and pretend it wouldn't be a problem on the Cal Logi. No, No. Don't misunderstand. You'd have to look back over several pages of argument (discussion) to get the full picture. We are NOT saying remove the sidearm from the A-Logi. A quick summary to catch you up. Ratti said he was taking the A-Logi sidearm away. Community LOST their minds (at least I did) Community pointed out that the Amarr bonus sucks compared to the Active bonuses of the Min (repper) and Gal (Scanner) and that in order to utilize the Amarr bonus (links) the Amarr needed to be a reasonable fighter. (There were plenty of other arguments, but this is what spawned the Cal Logi discussion) Then it was pointed out that the Cal Logi also had a passive logi bonus (hives) thus a similar logi style to the Amarr, thus should actually get a sidearm. Logi Community agrees And there was much rejoicing! YouTube
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6452	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:30:00 - [507] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I do think giving the Cal Logi a side arm and removing a slot in return is a Great idea. That would make since for the current gap of a type II playstyle that the community has proven time and time again they enjoy, and only 1 suit that fills the role. Buuuuuuut we already have a suit that does that. It's teh A-Logi! I dunno, maybe I'm missing something. Like, having a Logistics with a sidearm isn't something new - I don't understand why the Cal Logi is a much more perfect contender when it's already one of the more powerful Logi's in the game and has been for some time. Saying that it would make sense for the current gap of a Type-II playstyle... When we already have a suit that has that... I dunno, just seems like a flawed argument. I can't understand why we're saying that having a sidearm is this giant pipe wrench in balance (and I even agreed!) and then turn around and pretend it wouldn't be a problem on the Cal Logi. No, No. Don't misunderstand. You'd have to look back over several pages of argument (discussion) to get the full picture. We are NOT saying remove the sidearm from the A-Logi. A quick summary to catch you up. Ratti said he was taking the A-Logi sidearm away. Community LOST their minds (at least I did) Community pointed out that the Amarr bonus sucks compared to the Active bonuses of the Min (repper) and Gal (Scanner) and that in order to utilize the Amarr bonus (links) the Amarr needed to be a reasonable fighter. (There were plenty of other arguments, but this is what spawned the Cal Logi discussion) Then it was pointed out that the Cal Logi also had a passive logi bonus (hives) thus a similar logi style to the Amarr, thus should actually get a sidearm. Logi Community agrees And there was much rejoicing! But...Cal Logi still doesn't need a sidearm... see you space cowboy...
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6226	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:40:00 - [508] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I do think giving the Cal Logi a side arm and removing a slot in return is a Great idea. That would make since for the current gap of a type II playstyle that the community has proven time and time again they enjoy, and only 1 suit that fills the role. Buuuuuuut we already have a suit that does that. It's teh A-Logi! I dunno, maybe I'm missing something. Like, having a Logistics with a sidearm isn't something new - I don't understand why the Cal Logi is a much more perfect contender when it's already one of the more powerful Logi's in the game and has been for some time. Saying that it would make sense for the current gap of a Type-II playstyle... When we already have a suit that has that... I dunno, just seems like a flawed argument. I can't understand why we're saying that having a sidearm is this giant pipe wrench in balance (and I even agreed!) and then turn around and pretend it wouldn't be a problem on the Cal Logi. No, No. Don't misunderstand. You'd have to look back over several pages of argument (discussion) to get the full picture. We are NOT saying remove the sidearm from the A-Logi. A quick summary to catch you up. Ratti said he was taking the A-Logi sidearm away. Community LOST their minds (at least I did) Community pointed out that the Amarr bonus sucks compared to the Active bonuses of the Min (repper) and Gal (Scanner) and that in order to utilize the Amarr bonus (links) the Amarr needed to be a reasonable fighter. (There were plenty of other arguments, but this is what spawned the Cal Logi discussion) Then it was pointed out that the Cal Logi also had a passive logi bonus (hives) thus a similar logi style to the Amarr, thus should actually get a sidearm. Logi Community agrees And there was much rejoicing! Ah, okay, I see now... Although, I think this is a pretty big cog in the overall balance of things at the expense of just having the Cal/Amarr Logi bonus apply after death but not with a suit change. So if you die, the bonus isn't lost, but if you change suits after death or at a supply depot, it would be. It makes sense that Logistics would -NOT- have sidearms as a means of encouraging them to actually Logi instead of Slay, giving them the opportunity to do so as a means of circumventing doing things correctly is the problem we've always had with Dust 514 and I think we should go the extra mile to make sure it is, in fact, done correctly. The bonuses applying to passive equipment (DU and Nanohive) is more reason, to me, NOT to give them a sidearm in the first place because once you drop the stuff there's no further reason to continue playing the Support Role unless you really like using those other equipment pieces. I just don't see much popularity in running all DU or all Nanohive fits. My concern is that players will drop their passive equipment and reap the benefits while slaying. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 253	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:43:00 - [509] - Quote I have yet to see an Amarr Logi slaying and not dropping ammo or anything... From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 329	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:44:00 - [510] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I do think giving the Cal Logi a side arm and removing a slot in return is a Great idea. That would make since for the current gap of a type II playstyle that the community has proven time and time again they enjoy, and only 1 suit that fills the role. Buuuuuuut we already have a suit that does that. It's teh A-Logi! I dunno, maybe I'm missing something. Like, having a Logistics with a sidearm isn't something new - I don't understand why the Cal Logi is a much more perfect contender when it's already one of the more powerful Logi's in the game and has been for some time. Saying that it would make sense for the current gap of a Type-II playstyle... When we already have a suit that has that... I dunno, just seems like a flawed argument. I can't understand why we're saying that having a sidearm is this giant pipe wrench in balance (and I even agreed!) and then turn around and pretend it wouldn't be a problem on the Cal Logi. No, No. Don't misunderstand. You'd have to look back over several pages of argument (discussion) to get the full picture. We are NOT saying remove the sidearm from the A-Logi. A quick summary to catch you up. Ratti said he was taking the A-Logi sidearm away. Community LOST their minds (at least I did) Community pointed out that the Amarr bonus sucks compared to the Active bonuses of the Min (repper) and Gal (Scanner) and that in order to utilize the Amarr bonus (links) the Amarr needed to be a reasonable fighter. (There were plenty of other arguments, but this is what spawned the Cal Logi discussion) Then it was pointed out that the Cal Logi also had a passive logi bonus (hives) thus a similar logi style to the Amarr, thus should actually get a sidearm. Logi Community agrees And there was much rejoicing! But...Cal Logi still doesn't need a sidearm... Please explain to me how the Caldari Logi gets stronger by removing one high slot of the currently five he have at proto level (+plus the removal of an equipment slot I guess), and adding a sidearm? I for one support the idea. zDub 303 made a very convincing argument.

Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6226	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:47:00 - [511] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I do think giving the Cal Logi a side arm and removing a slot in return is a Great idea. That would make since for the current gap of a type II playstyle that the community has proven time and time again they enjoy, and only 1 suit that fills the role. Buuuuuuut we already have a suit that does that. It's teh A-Logi! I dunno, maybe I'm missing something. Like, having a Logistics with a sidearm isn't something new - I don't understand why the Cal Logi is a much more perfect contender when it's already one of the more powerful Logi's in the game and has been for some time. Saying that it would make sense for the current gap of a Type-II playstyle... When we already have a suit that has that... I dunno, just seems like a flawed argument. I can't understand why we're saying that having a sidearm is this giant pipe wrench in balance (and I even agreed!) and then turn around and pretend it wouldn't be a problem on the Cal Logi. No, No. Don't misunderstand. You'd have to look back over several pages of argument (discussion) to get the full picture. We are NOT saying remove the sidearm from the A-Logi. A quick summary to catch you up. Ratti said he was taking the A-Logi sidearm away. Community LOST their minds (at least I did) Community pointed out that the Amarr bonus sucks compared to the Active bonuses of the Min (repper) and Gal (Scanner) and that in order to utilize the Amarr bonus (links) the Amarr needed to be a reasonable fighter. (There were plenty of other arguments, but this is what spawned the Cal Logi discussion) Then it was pointed out that the Cal Logi also had a passive logi bonus (hives) thus a similar logi style to the Amarr, thus should actually get a sidearm. Logi Community agrees And there was much rejoicing! But...Cal Logi still doesn't need a sidearm... Please explain to me how the Caldari Logi gets stronger by removing one high slot of the currently five he have at proto level (+plus the removal of an equipment slot I guess), and adding a sidearm? I for one support the idea. zDub 303 made a very convincing argument. Right, but this is an argument that could just as easily be solved if we had cross-racial bonuses on the Logis, opening up more avenues of play. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3548	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:52:00 - [512] - Quote Wow this took a turn for the worst. Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt! Changes to the A-logi is the embodiment ofCCPLogic
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 751	Posted - 2014.07.10 20:07:00 - [513] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I do think giving the Cal Logi a side arm and removing a slot in return is a Great idea. That would make since for the current gap of a type II playstyle that the community has proven time and time again they enjoy, and only 1 suit that fills the role. Buuuuuuut we already have a suit that does that. It's teh A-Logi! I dunno, maybe I'm missing something. Like, having a Logistics with a sidearm isn't something new - I don't understand why the Cal Logi is a much more perfect contender when it's already one of the more powerful Logi's in the game and has been for some time. Saying that it would make sense for the current gap of a Type-II playstyle... When we already have a suit that has that... I dunno, just seems like a flawed argument. I can't understand why we're saying that having a sidearm is this giant pipe wrench in balance (and I even agreed!) and then turn around and pretend it wouldn't be a problem on the Cal Logi. No, No. Don't misunderstand. You'd have to look back over several pages of argument (discussion) to get the full picture. We are NOT saying remove the sidearm from the A-Logi. A quick summary to catch you up. Ratti said he was taking the A-Logi sidearm away. Community LOST their minds (at least I did) Community pointed out that the Amarr bonus sucks compared to the Active bonuses of the Min (repper) and Gal (Scanner) and that in order to utilize the Amarr bonus (links) the Amarr needed to be a reasonable fighter. (There were plenty of other arguments, but this is what spawned the Cal Logi discussion) Then it was pointed out that the Cal Logi also had a passive logi bonus (hives) thus a similar logi style to the Amarr, thus should actually get a sidearm. Logi Community agrees And there was much rejoicing! Ah, okay, I see now... Although, I think this is a pretty big cog in the overall balance of things at the expense of just having the Cal/Amarr Logi bonus apply after death but not with a suit change. So if you die, the bonus isn't lost, but if you change suits after death or at a supply depot, it would be. It makes sense that Logistics would -NOT- have sidearms as a means of encouraging them to actually Logi instead of Slay, giving them the opportunity to do so as a means of circumventing doing things correctly is the problem we've always had with Dust 514 and I think we should go the extra mile to make sure it is, in fact, done correctly. The bonuses applying to passive equipment (DU and Nanohive) is more reason, to me, NOT to give them a sidearm in the first place because once you drop the stuff there's no further reason to continue playing the Support Role unless you really like using those other equipment pieces. I just don't see much popularity in running all DU or all Nanohive fits. My concern is that players will drop their passive equipment and reap the benefits while slaying. I think the point here that you're fighting against is the very point we are fighting for. Tell me this. Why would I chose to Cal or Amr over Min if I'm going to spend most of my time with a repair tool in my hand? Or over Gal if I'm looking to scan. The Hive and Link bonus, even if it was working as intended, isn't that great compared to the Active bonuses of the Gal and Min. YouTube
MARTIN uu brigada z 0	Posted - 2014.07.10 20:13:00 - [514] - Quote Hola quieres unirte o ser reclutado por favor necesito tu ayuda por favor te lo recompensare https://dust514.com/recruit/cfiGoD/
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 753	Posted - 2014.07.10 20:17:00 - [515] - Quote RedPencil wrote: Can you increase walking speed when equip knife? This please. Twitter MajLagSpike CPM Application
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6230	Posted - 2014.07.10 20:31:00 - [516] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: I think the point here that you're fighting against is the very point we are fighting for. Tell me this. Why would I chose to Cal or Amr over Min if I'm going to spend most of my time with a repair tool in my hand? Or over Gal if I'm looking to scan. The Hive and Link bonus, even if it was working as intended, isn't that great compared to the Active bonuses of the Gal and Min. Sure, but you could make that argument about other suits as well. Why should I use the Gallente Logi, even with it's active bonus, when the Scouts are so much more effective at the job? We're taking measures to change that, sure, but it's not exactly like people are flocking to the Gallente Logi right now. And, again, cross-racial bonuses would help immensely with this. Amarr Logi with specialized bonuses to Drop Uplinks with a secondary bonus to Repair Tools would just make sense since they are Armor tankers, same could be said about the Gallente Logi as well. Gallente Logi only has the bonus to the Active Scanners and even if they are Active, what am I doing when I'm not using the one scanner? Can I have a sidearm on my Gallente Logistics as well..? Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 754	Posted - 2014.07.10 20:34:00 - [517] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Syeven Reed wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Light damage mods is high on my list for Assault efficacy bonuses Can we have them moved to low powered slots too? So... Basically... Armor Assaults will be forced to dual tank? Because we don't have anything, count, ANYTHING other than extenders to put into high slots without damage mods. OK, I spoke without any explanation. What I wanted to get across was heavily tanked suits with high DPS (but it's an old problem). Going by what Rattati has said though we may be getting code-breakers for high slots... So thats something! I'll stop now.. Twitter MajLagSpike CPM Application
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 753	Posted - 2014.07.10 20:39:00 - [518] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I think the point here that you're fighting against is the very point we are fighting for. Tell me this. Why would I chose to Cal or Amr over Min if I'm going to spend most of my time with a repair tool in my hand? Or over Gal if I'm looking to scan. The Hive and Link bonus, even if it was working as intended, isn't that great compared to the Active bonuses of the Gal and Min. Sure, but you could make that argument about other suits as well. Why should I use the Gallente Logi, even with it's active bonus, when the Scouts are so much more effective at the job? We're taking measures to change that, sure, but it's not exactly like people are flocking to the Gallente Logi right now. And, again, cross-racial bonuses would help immensely with this. Amarr Logi with specialized bonuses to Drop Uplinks with a secondary bonus to Repair Tools would just make sense since they are Armor tankers, same could be said about the Gallente Logi as well. Gallente Logi only has the bonus to the Active Scanners and even if they are Active, what am I doing when I'm not using the one scanner? Can I have a sidearm on my Gallente Logistics as well..? My Gal Logis carry multiple scanners 0.o. I think the point to keep in mind here is that your argument to make Assaults better by discouraging the Slayer Logi is flawed. The Slayer Logi exist because the Assault bonus suck. The combat medic/engineer has a place, and that place shouldn't be undermine because the Assaults in there current setup do not. Indulge me for a moment and answer this like a CPM Candidate question. What bonus would you give to the Assault classes to make them more attractive without taking away from the other roles? YouTube
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14560	Posted - 2014.07.10 20:48:00 - [519] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: What bonus would you give to the Assault classes to make them more attractive without taking away from the other roles? Second grenade slot, among other stuff The Future
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10804	Posted - 2014.07.10 20:57:00 - [520] - Quote Syeven Reed wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Syeven Reed wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Light damage mods is high on my list for Assault efficacy bonuses Can we have them moved to low powered slots too? So... Basically... Armor Assaults will be forced to dual tank? Because we don't have anything, count, ANYTHING other than extenders to put into high slots without damage mods. OK, I spoke without any explanation. What I wanted to get across was heavily tanked suits with high DPS (but it's an old problem). Going by what Rattati has said though we may be getting code-breakers for high slots... So thats something! I'll stop now.. Oh please, I didn't run an armor assault suit with more than 500 armor for ages now. The bricked armor suits die faster, they can only survive one engagement without a logi glued to their ass. Even then I often take advantage of their lackluster speed and regeneration to take them down easily. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC

Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 522	Posted - 2014.07.10 21:23:00 - [521] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I think the point here that you're fighting against is the very point we are fighting for. Tell me this. Why would I chose to Cal or Amr over Min if I'm going to spend most of my time with a repair tool in my hand? Or over Gal if I'm looking to scan. The Hive and Link bonus, even if it was working as intended, isn't that great compared to the Active bonuses of the Gal and Min. Sure, but you could make that argument about other suits as well. Why should I use the Gallente Logi, even with it's active bonus, when the Scouts are so much more effective at the job? We're taking measures to change that, sure, but it's not exactly like people are flocking to the Gallente Logi right now. And, again, cross-racial bonuses would help immensely with this. Amarr Logi with specialized bonuses to Drop Uplinks with a secondary bonus to Repair Tools would just make sense since they are Armor tankers, same could be said about the Gallente Logi as well. Gallente Logi only has the bonus to the Active Scanners and even if they are Active, what am I doing when I'm not using the one scanner? Can I have a sidearm on my Gallente Logistics as well..? Sometimes I wonder if we are forgetting what fun is. Being a scanbot is not a fun role. Neither is having passive equipment bonuses and then spending your time sticking to the ass of a heavy with your inferior rep tool. The most fun I've had with a Medium Suit was the Minmatar Logi. A set of rep tool + nanite injector + nanohive (though it sucks that nanohives don't simply restock at supply depots), combined with a combat rifle and the fact that this Logi is really fast, is incredibly enjoyable. You run around and either kill or heal depending on what is needed. It's like you have power over life and death. Meanwhile, Gallente Logi - Especially if you are playing solo or with a squad of uncoordinated randoms - is quite boring to play. Scanning is one of the less interesting functions in this game. I'm actually starting to question the existence of the Assault. Why can't it be a combined Medium suit? But I guess the time frame for fun fixes is over and now we can only create balance in order to have balanced team makeups. Which is still more fun than everyone running around in murder drive-bies or insta-kill RRs and 1500 eHP.
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 439	Posted - 2014.07.10 21:25:00 - [522] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Remove the sidearm from the only proto suit i've been able to afford and that pretty much seals the deal for me to never return to Dust. I understand the idea of normalizing the slot layouts but I feel its the wrong way to go personally. The sidearm on the Amarr Logi is what made that suit fun. Having experienced having a sidearm and 3 equipment I could never go back to only having a single weapon. I honestly can't see a reason why you would run a logistics suit over a scout unless you want to run a minmatar medic suit. Amarr logi bridged the gap between minmatar medic and scout-logis. If you look at the numbers, something tells me the Amarr and Minmater logi suits probably greatly outnumber the caldari and gallente logis now. Its not hard to imagine why that might be, uplinks and rep tools are by far the most useful equipments available. I would love to see the number on logi sutis in general, in pubs there are enough WP farmers running rep tools to keep the numbers high but in general they are becoming rather underpowered in general. With scouts and heavies the way they are after 1.7 and 1.8 it seems that straight buffs to the medium suits make more sense to me. imho... adding a sidearm to caldari and doing a slot normalization that way makes much more sense. You have caldari and amarr as 'combat logi' suits with bonuses more oriented towards being near the frontline (uplinks and ammo) while minmatar and gallente logis would be more inclined to focus on their 'active equipment' using rep tools and scanners more in general and not being so inclined to need a sidearm. The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance. The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. but with the changes you have suggested so far you are just making them all good in the same way, except for the racial bonus, which min has the best hands down.... why would I want to use any other logi suit, if they all have the same slot lay out but the min gets a rep bonus? what is the incesntive to skill into the others if you do this?
Fire of Prometheus Alpha Response Command 5233	Posted - 2014.07.10 21:27:00 - [523] - Quote Repost from other thread: Linky to original thread #1Posted: 2014.07.10 21:22 \| Report \| Edited by: Fire of Prometheus 1 Please do not remove the sidearm slot from the amarr logi. It is quite literally the defining feature of the amarr logi. Countless times, I've been caught in the middle of combat, with no cover fire, so I've had to deal my own. And when I run out if ammo in my main gun at the same time as my opponent, I can easily just switch to my secondary and finish the guy off. The amarr logi to me, is my ideal non commando suit (at least for my play style etc.). The amarr logi perfectly bridges the gap between assault and logi through its sidearm slot. It can dole out damage when needed, and provide superb logi support at the same time. I'm what I call a "lazy logi". Now what I mean by this is that, if I'm in a logi suit and no one in my squad is in dire need of logi ing, I don't do logi, I simply use my logi suit to provide cover fire etc. Now before you call me a "murder logi", know that I have dedicated logi fits that are built around the amarr logi. My true logi fits on my amarr logi, are able to perform the duties of a true logi, but is still able to carry out the same tasks as a slightly above average assault (due to its sidearm). With that being said, I have come to the conclusion that opposite of the min logi being the "true medic", the amarr logi is a veritable "combat engineer/medic". It can hold it's own in a firefight and still can compete with the other logi suits when it comes down to the wire. I would argue that next down from the commando suit, the amarr logi is the most versatile suit in the game, due to the sidearm slot. I went amarr logi before they got sidearms, and since they got them, I feel like the amarr logi has finally been put on an equal playing field (especially post 1.8 where the bonus is, IMO brutal to say the least). So my request: if you remove my amarr logis sidearm slot, I demand that those who are specced into it, be given a refund of the sp that was spent into it (ya I know, everyone will say "if he gets a refund, how come I didn't?" So this probably won't happen, but I can say I tried) Please tank into consideration what I have said when you make your final decision, the amarr logi is it's own unique role and has some of the most diverse fitting capabilities in the game due to its ability to fit a sidearm. Fire I can use all 4 proto commandos ^.^ CCP, at least fix my ck.0 commandos colour scheme...he looks like the Michelin man
The Infected One Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1364	Posted - 2014.07.10 21:31:00 - [524] - Quote Cyrius Li-Moody wrote: Would like to hear more about this Minmatar scout rebalance. Is this going to be a third bonus on top of the knives and hacking bonus or is the base hackspeed going to be adjusted to what it's current bonus allows or are knives going to be buffed to Minmatar scout levels Agreed, I specced into min scout because of the knives, if knives are being brought up to min scouts current levels, why would anyone chose min scout over any other scout suit? With gal being able to damp and or hack better due to the low slots, or cal being able to see it hack better if code breakers are being moved to high slots. Where does that leave the min scout with no actual bonuses that set it apart from the rest of the scouts. It truly will be the worst of the worst scouts. Some clarification would be appreciated. I am here to ask you one question, and one question only: EXPLOSIONS? --. . - + ..-. ..- -.-. -.- . -..
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 15282	Posted - 2014.07.10 21:58:00 - [525] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Rubs against Rattati's leg Do not move damage mods to low slots D: Gimmie Infantry Ammo Cache that uses weapon upgrade skills for my low slots? I'm not really sure it's the low slots that need more modules. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake.
Zelda Harkinian Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 49	Posted - 2014.07.10 22:21:00 - [526] - Quote so calscouts are losing their scan precisions? huh... well, I guess we had our fun long enough and poor amarr scouts really need something. With codebreakers moving to high slot, it will be interesting to see what kind of fittings calscouts will create. So far you can personalize your play style much much more with low slots than you can with high slots, so I'm glad we're getting more high slot options.
Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet 148	Posted - 2014.07.10 22:38:00 - [527] - Quote since you're improving knife damage can you also improve the MinScout's melee? something marginal like 10 or 20 will do just fine. As melee is ineffective, i'm sure no one will complain and you can safely filter out the people who do as meaningless noise. thanks!
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10807	Posted - 2014.07.10 22:38:00 - [528] - Quote Hey Rattati, you know that it takes 550 matches to reach level 10 in FW? I think that's enough to justify 4x the LP reward, besides the other stuff like higher risk. Or you could cut that back to the original number in the dev blog saying 200 matches. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 86	Posted - 2014.07.10 22:54:00 - [529] - Quote Zelda Harkinian wrote: so calscouts are losing their scan precisions? huh... well, I guess we had our fun long enough and poor amarr scouts really need something. With codebreakers moving to high slot, it will be interesting to see what kind of fittings calscouts will create. So far you can personalize your play style much much more with low slots than you can with high slots, so I'm glad we're getting more high slot options. Someome explain this to me. Cal and Gal both currently have a range bonus. Cal has precision, and gal has dampening. So if cal is losing precision whats its other bonus?
Zelda Harkinian Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 49	Posted - 2014.07.10 22:58:00 - [530] - Quote aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote: Zelda Harkinian wrote: so calscouts are losing their scan precisions? huh... well, I guess we had our fun long enough and poor amarr scouts really need something. With codebreakers moving to high slot, it will be interesting to see what kind of fittings calscouts will create. So far you can personalize your play style much much more with low slots than you can with high slots, so I'm glad we're getting more high slot options. Someome explain this to me. Cal and Gal both currently have a range bonus. Cal has precision, and gal has dampening. So if cal is losing precision whats its other bonus? well, it has a range bonus and it can regenerate shields crazy fast. If we're losing precisions though I think it would be nice if we had a slightly larger bonus to our scan range. but in terms of bonus, If calscouts have to lose a bonus I'm glad it was the precision. range amplification is a low slot module and calscouts have the worst low slots of any suit out there. we can still stack precision modules and have room to spare for other stuff, but one range amplification module effectively closes off tons of other options that we could have on low slots.

Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6235	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:04:00 - [531] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I think the point here that you're fighting against is the very point we are fighting for. Tell me this. Why would I chose to Cal or Amr over Min if I'm going to spend most of my time with a repair tool in my hand? Or over Gal if I'm looking to scan. The Hive and Link bonus, even if it was working as intended, isn't that great compared to the Active bonuses of the Gal and Min. Sure, but you could make that argument about other suits as well. Why should I use the Gallente Logi, even with it's active bonus, when the Scouts are so much more effective at the job? We're taking measures to change that, sure, but it's not exactly like people are flocking to the Gallente Logi right now. And, again, cross-racial bonuses would help immensely with this. Amarr Logi with specialized bonuses to Drop Uplinks with a secondary bonus to Repair Tools would just make sense since they are Armor tankers, same could be said about the Gallente Logi as well. Gallente Logi only has the bonus to the Active Scanners and even if they are Active, what am I doing when I'm not using the one scanner? Can I have a sidearm on my Gallente Logistics as well..? My Gal Logis carry multiple scanners 0.o. I think the point to keep in mind here is that your argument to make Assaults better by discouraging the Slayer Logi is flawed. The Slayer Logi exist because the Assault bonus suck. The combat medic/engineer has a place, and that place shouldn't be undermine because the Assaults in there current setup do not. Indulge me for a moment and answer this like a CPM Candidate question. What bonus would you give to the Assault classes to make them more attractive without taking away from the other roles? The argument was never about making Assaults better by discouraging Slayer Logis, don't misconstrue my argument, please. My argument was to prevent Slayer Logis from being better than Assaults as they generally have been since Uprising was released. The Slayer Logi doesn't/didn't exist because the Assault bonus sucks, the Slayer Logi existed/exists because it has always been better than the Assault due to the fitting capabilities and bonuses. Logistics not only have more equipment slots, they have more slots in general on top of having more PG/CPU. For a while, they all had passive armor repair, the Cal Logi had a defensive shield bonus, the list goes on and on. Market data backs that up considering that Logistics have always been preferable to Assaults. Rewind back to 1.4/1.5, toss a Flaylock pistol (a sidearm no less) on them and they were god mode. As far as what bonus? Kind of a loaded question with Commandos competing with the offensive role, so appealing to the offensive role will start taking away from them.. Give a commando a 10% increase in damage, and an Assault a 10% increase in rate of fire, and they have the exact same DPS - one just is a bit more conservative on the ammo. Both of which have their pros and cons, Commandos having a second light weapon and durability while Assaults have a bit more speed and grenades but inevitably they're both slotted into the Slayer role. Now if Commandos had a magazine increase as opposed to a damage increase, then you could very easily say that the Commandos were the suppression unit and the Assaults were the offensive front-runners. But I doubt that will ever happen and that's not what this conversation is about. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Zelda Harkinian Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 51	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:07:00 - [532] - Quote what if assaults had crazy godlike stamina?
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 86	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:10:00 - [533] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I think the point here that you're fighting against is the very point we are fighting for. Tell me this. Why would I chose to Cal or Amr over Min if I'm going to spend most of my time with a repair tool in my hand? Or over Gal if I'm looking to scan. The Hive and Link bonus, even if it was working as intended, isn't that great compared to the Active bonuses of the Gal and Min. Sure, but you could make that argument about other suits as well. Why should I use the Gallente Logi, even with it's active bonus, when the Scouts are so much more effective at the job? We're taking measures to change that, sure, but it's not exactly like people are flocking to the Gallente Logi right now. And, again, cross-racial bonuses would help immensely with this. Amarr Logi with specialized bonuses to Drop Uplinks with a secondary bonus to Repair Tools would just make sense since they are Armor tankers, same could be said about the Gallente Logi as well. Gallente Logi only has the bonus to the Active Scanners and even if they are Active, what am I doing when I'm not using the one scanner? Can I have a sidearm on my Gallente Logistics as well..? My Gal Logis carry multiple scanners 0.o. I think the point to keep in mind here is that your argument to make Assaults better by discouraging the Slayer Logi is flawed. The Slayer Logi exist because the Assault bonus suck. The combat medic/engineer has a place, and that place shouldn't be undermine because the Assaults in there current setup do not. Indulge me for a moment and answer this like a CPM Candidate question. What bonus would you give to the Assault classes to make them more attractive without taking away from the other roles? The argument was never about making Assaults better by discouraging Slayer Logis, don't misconstrue my argument, please. The Slayer Logi doesn't/didn't exist because the Assault bonus sucks, the Slayer Logi existed/exists because it has always been better than the Assault due to the fitting capabilities and bonuses. Logistics not only have more equipment slots, they have more slots in general on top of having more PG/CPU. For a while, they all had passive armor repair, the Cal Logi had a defensive shield bonus, the list goes on and on. Market data backs that up considering that Logistics have always been preferable to Assaults. Rewind back to 1.4/1.5, toss a Flaylock pistol (a sidearm no less) on them and they were god mode. As far as what bonus? Kind of a loaded question with Commandos competing with the offensive role, so appealing to the offensive role will start taking away from them.. Give a commando a 10% increase in damage, and an Assault a 10% increase in rate of fire, and they have the exact same DPS - one just is a bit more conservative on the ammo. Both of which have their pros and cons, Commandos having a second light weapon and durability while Assaults have a bit more speed and grenades but inevitably they're both slotted into the Slayer role. Now if Commandos had a magazine increase as opposed to a damage increase, then you could very easily say that the Commandos were the suppression unit and the Assaults were the offensive front-runners. But I doubt that will ever happen and that's not what this conversation is about. In the past I would have agreed completely. But think about it, Logis are not the slayers they were back in the day, not by half. And even back then it was mostly Cal and Gal, for along time just Caldari really. I think the focus should be on buff Assaults first, then look at logis. Not both at the same time.
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 623	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:13:00 - [534] - Quote Zelda Harkinian wrote: what if assaults had crazy godlike stamina? The Amarr Scout already does, and all I have heard are complaints. Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6235	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:16:00 - [535] - Quote aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote: In the past I would have agreed completely. But think about it, Logis are not the slayers they were back in the day, not by half. And even back then it was mostly Cal and Gal, for along time just Caldari really. I think the focus should be on buff Assaults first, then look at logis. Not both at the same time. Agree completely, and if I had my way, we wouldn't even touch Logistics until Hotfix Delta. And sure, it's gotten better since the early days but you ask me to pick between Gal Assault and Gal Logi right now, probably go with the Gallente Logi because the slot layout is better, the fitting cost reduction to equipment trumps weaponry, and dispersion reduction doesn't hardly do jack of [redacted] when it only really applies to the Assault Rifle and Shotgun. All at the cost of a little survivability (covered by the fitting) and some speed. But even then it's bonus toward active scanners is competing with Scouts' passive scans. To expand on my earlier point though, I feel like the only real bonus we can give Assaults at this point without them bleeding into other roles is a regeneration bonus. Armor repair, shield recharge, stuff like that. Damage/rate of fire shoehorns the Commandos, fitting reductions on weaponry just aren't worth it, and extraneous bonuses like dispersion/reload speed are covered by other skills. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 623	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:17:00 - [536] - Quote What about 100 WP for using the State Kaalakiota 100% revive injector? Or would this injector stay at 75 WP as well? It looks like you are trying to reward WP per % armor revived, so 100% = 100 WP? They are really expensive and are also the only reason I fight for the Caldari. Getting to level 4 loyalty playing solo has been the epitome of Hard Mode... Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 86	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:18:00 - [537] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I think the point here that you're fighting against is the very point we are fighting for. Tell me this. Why would I chose to Cal or Amr over Min if I'm going to spend most of my time with a repair tool in my hand? Or over Gal if I'm looking to scan. The Hive and Link bonus, even if it was working as intended, isn't that great compared to the Active bonuses of the Gal and Min. Sure, but you could make that argument about other suits as well. Why should I use the Gallente Logi, even with it's active bonus, when the Scouts are so much more effective at the job? We're taking measures to change that, sure, but it's not exactly like people are flocking to the Gallente Logi right now. And, again, cross-racial bonuses would help immensely with this. Amarr Logi with specialized bonuses to Drop Uplinks with a secondary bonus to Repair Tools would just make sense since they are Armor tankers, same could be said about the Gallente Logi as well. Gallente Logi only has the bonus to the Active Scanners and even if they are Active, what am I doing when I'm not using the one scanner? Can I have a sidearm on my Gallente Logistics as well..? My Gal Logis carry multiple scanners 0.o. I think the point to keep in mind here is that your argument to make Assaults better by discouraging the Slayer Logi is flawed. The Slayer Logi exist because the Assault bonus suck. The combat medic/engineer has a place, and that place shouldn't be undermine because the Assaults in there current setup do not. Indulge me for a moment and answer this like a CPM Candidate question. What bonus would you give to the Assault classes to make them more attractive without taking away from the other roles? Personally as someone who owns 3 of the 4 assaults, I dont have a problem against Logis, just scouts and heavys. As far as the bonuses go I like them. I think the suits need some ewar tweaks, give us better precision and range for offensive capabilities. And a little more cpu pg so that I can tank and carry a proto weapon and at least a adv level sidearm. And im good with my assault really. But tiericide on Logis just feels wrong man.
BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 39	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:28:00 - [538] - Quote A question I still have is that are you guys adding any slots for the assault. I have a huge proposal if you guys add one additional high slot to the advance minmatar assault. Thus, standard will have 3 high slot, advance 4 high slot, and proto 5 high slots. The Blazing Intellect Machine
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 86	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:30:00 - [539] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote: In the past I would have agreed completely. But think about it, Logis are not the slayers they were back in the day, not by half. And even back then it was mostly Cal and Gal, for along time just Caldari really. I think the focus should be on buff Assaults first, then look at logis. Not both at the same time. Agree completely, and if I had my way, we wouldn't even touch Logistics until Hotfix Delta. And sure, it's gotten better since the early days but you ask me to pick between Gal Assault and Gal Logi right now, probably go with the Gallente Logi because the slot layout is better, the fitting cost reduction to equipment trumps weaponry, and dispersion reduction doesn't hardly do jack of [redacted] when it only really applies to the Assault Rifle and Shotgun. All at the cost of a little survivability (covered by the fitting) and some speed. But even then it's bonus toward active scanners is competing with Scouts' passive scans. To expand on my earlier point though, I feel like the only real bonus we can give Assaults at this point without them bleeding into other roles is a regeneration bonus. Armor repair, shield recharge, stuff like that. Damage/rate of fire shoehorns the Commandos, fitting reductions on weaponry just aren't worth it, and extraneous bonuses like dispersion/reload speed are covered by other skills. Yes but it matters. I was in my adv cal assault yesterday. I had std scrambler, and std mag sec. I was fighting Grease Spillet on the back steps of the Gal research facility that leads down to the CRU. I had him down to half armor in his proto Gal Assault and he had my shields depleted. I switched to sidearm and unloaded a clip from my magsec and then began backing up the steps, second tier, as I continued to back up the third tier he came flying around the second tier looking right up at me, but thanks to my reload bonus as soon as his head popped around those steps I put him down, with some strafing and luck I survived. But I marked it in my head right then, I said wow my bonus just saved my a$$. Not the first time either! I cant tell you how many times that Mini assault suit bonus with my rs 90 has kept me alive from multiple scouts, or given me enough ammo in a clip to finish a hvy in his range.
Tesfa Alem ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 155	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:45:00 - [540] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Cat Merc wrote: A small idea I had. How about increasing light weapon fitting requirements by 35%, and giving Assaults/Commandos a corresponding fitting reduction? Sidearms become a low CPU/PG option for non slayer suits, Heavies will be less likely to use those with the CPU/PG reduction and Heavy weapon fitting bonuses. This makes Sidearm vs Light weapon an actual choice, rather than some fun fitting you run once in a while. Non slayer suits that want the same slaying power would have to do sacrifices, just like non scouts trying to fit cloaks. This is a terrible terrible idea. Logis need to stay alive and in a dust where rail rifles can engage within 80 meters, and HMGs destroy you close range, which should i give up HP or equipment just to be able to shoot back. This would rather encourage me to become a slayer logi. i simply cannot risk my good equipment and suit on 1 side arm, (which would only be either the magsec or smg) so i might as well ditch the equipment and go for kills. Cant we just buff the assaults without destroying the other suits. Then downgrade from a Duvolle to a GEK? Is it really too much to ask for? I was using GEK's for a long time on my Gallente Assault suit ya know. WIth maxed fitting skills. I 'm talking about struggling to scrape ADV weapons onto the suits. PG and cpu is already razor thin. I build my logis around the equipment and HP but thinking along your lines would make me build around the weapon. Ethier an standard or mlt light weapon or SMG with low HP and good equipment or become a better slayer than assaults with a duvolle with survivable suit but crappy equipment. Great, then you can't have both slayer, tank and equipment power Scouts will be affected by that too, so don't worry about that hehe. not being able to fight back with my equipment will force me to be a dedicated slayer with higher HP and a proto gun. I mean since dust is overrun with minmatar logis killing everything left right and center Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. CPM1 Candidate

Tesfa Alem ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 155	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:48:00 - [541] - Quote Syeven Reed wrote: Tesfa Alem wrote: Syeven Reed wrote: Maybe "abuse" is the wrong word but I do agree with them, placing a bed of hives and then swapping out to a heavy brick seems like a misuse of a bad mechanic? I don't think so. Even the situation you mentioned is easily counterable, flux the spot and spray. And i like having my options so if i see a tanked heavy siting in a nest of hives i can switch out to my mass drive min comando if he's in the open and pummel him from range or sneak behing his stationary butt and R.E. him in my gal scout or rep a friendly heavy as we charge his position in my winmatar logi or take him down my self in a sentinel with flux grendaes. Cant take my cal logi or a gal logi to fight him though. 1 way trip for the amar scout. And if they nerf the A logi sidearms i'll just have to throw my uplinks at him like frisebee buzzsaws How do you switch to your mass driver if he has the supply depot? I use the other supply depot. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me. CPM1 Candidate
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6239	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:53:00 - [542] - Quote Go ahead and give the Caldari/Amarr Logistics their sidearms. If there's a resurgence of Slayer Logis and players aren't utilizing Logistics for the support role they're intended to be, it'll be evident almost immediately. /shrug Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
m621 zma Seraphim Initiative.. 168	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:55:00 - [543] - Quote Harpyja wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: snip The Nanite Injector WP scaling is great news. Is there any possibility of squeezing in tier based scaling for repair tools aswell? While to a lesser extent, they have the exact same problem of higher tiers being a clear downgrade in purely economic terms. Also, regarding OMS. Could you elaborate on why you believe further reducing the number of game modes, Pilots and AV infantry can participate in with their preferred playstyle, is necessary? Let me use a loaded question to articulate my concern: Would you say that non-AV capable infantry players require/deserve a vehicle free game mode for the sake of it, or is this decision purely driven by current balance issues and thus a (theoretically) temporary concession? Every single FPS game that I have played has a vehicle free TDM. I see no reason why DUST 514 should not have it. I am fine with vehicles moving to Dom and Skirm because they are objective based. Could you at least consider leaving LAV's available? Some matches that are on huge maps take forever to end because everyone has to run across the map just to get a few kills, then run back to a different corner of the map (this is in regular ambush where you can't call in any vehicles). Heavy+hmg+lav=pain in the ass - just make the bigass maps a bit smaller. I'm tired of running 2 miles a battle to kill someone followed by another 2 mile jog back to where I started cos the red are all spawning there now.
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 759	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:59:00 - [544] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: [quote=ratamaq doc] *Snip Indulge me for a moment and answer this like a CPM Candidate question. What bonus would you give to the Assault classes to make them more attractive without taking away from the other roles? The argument was never about making Assaults better by discouraging Slayer Logis, don't misconstrue my argument, please. The Slayer Logi doesn't/didn't exist because the Assault bonus sucks, the Slayer Logi existed/exists because it has always been better than the Assault due to the fitting capabilities and bonuses. Logistics not only have more equipment slots, they have more slots in general on top of having more PG/CPU. For a while, they all had passive armor repair, the Cal Logi had a defensive shield bonus, the list goes on and on. Market data backs that up considering that Logistics have always been preferable to Assaults. Rewind back to 1.4/1.5, toss a Flaylock pistol (a sidearm no less) on them and they were god mode. As far as what bonus? Kind of a loaded question with Commandos competing with the offensive role, so appealing to the offensive role will start taking away from them.. Give a commando a 10% increase in damage, and an Assault a 10% increase in rate of fire, and they have the exact same DPS - one just is a bit more conservative on the ammo. Both of which have their pros and cons, Commandos having a second light weapon and durability while Assaults have a bit more speed and grenades but inevitably they're both slotted into the Slayer role. Now if Commandos had a magazine increase as opposed to a damage increase, then you could very easily say that the Commandos were the suppression unit and the Assaults were the offensive front-runners. But I doubt that will ever happen and that's not what this conversation is about. Ok next question. Do you think it is important to understand the entire context of the argument before giving your opinion? Because this discussion IS about a Buff to Assaults via their bonuses and Attributes, and the reason given for the change to Logis was that Data shows that the Logi is far more used than the Assault. In which we replied that the community has expressed time and time again that you don't rob Peter to pay Paul. Here were my suggestions on Buffing the Assault and why. [quote=ratamaq doc] But getting back to the real subject at hand, Assault Buff. The question that comes up that deserves the most though and community feedback is "What BONUS to the Assault would be attractive enough for you to leave your current suit?" So going from the thought that the Assault is suppose to be the best at killing people on the front lines, what bonuses make since to that role? So in my mind, this comes down to one thing which is Gun Game. Not tank, not mobility, not survivability, just straight Gun Game. Things in general that support your Gun Game are Range, Damage, Dispersion/Accuracy, and Reload or Sustained Fire. Each of these things the Assault Suit and by extension the Assault Heavy (Commando) Should be NOTICEABLY better at. Stick with me for a moment on this. How noticeable is the inherent ewar bonus the Scouts have? A little or a lot? How noticeable is the Heavy's EHP?, or the Logis versatility? Currently, the bonuses to Assault's Gun Game are correct, they just aren't Noticeable! I don't want to go into the who's should get which bonuses, but I think they should be something that when you have or read in stats you say to yourself "Damn that's awesome" So how about something along the lines of: Total reload bonus = 50% or more Range bonus = 15% or more (whatever would take the effective range into Optimal range for each weapon) Damage Bonus = Total %10 minimum, maybe more. Enough to jump a weapons power 2 tears and can't be negated by a different suit with a damage mod. Dispersion/Accuracy/Kick = enough to make the RR fire like an SMG Ammo/Mag size = What is it 15% now for Min? Make if 50% My point here is that I love FPS games, but no Assault (except for the Amarr's overhead bonus) has ever made me WANT one of their bonus. I feel like my natural Gun Game can easily compensate for the lack of having any of the Assault bonuses. I mean, for real, I am an FPS player with 60 mil SP and I don't have a single SP in Assault suits! Offer me one of the above and you'll sell me. I'll say it again, forcing users out of the Combat Medic/engineer role by nerfing Logis is not going to create more assaults, it's going to create more Scouts. YouTube
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 88	Posted - 2014.07.11 00:06:00 - [545] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Go ahead and give the Caldari/Amarr Logistics their sidearms. If there's a resurgence of Slayer Logis and players aren't utilizing Logistics for the support role they're intended to be, it'll be evident almost immediately. /shrug I respect your opinions, but I am curious if you feel there is a resurgence now with the Amarr already having that sidearm? I personally do not see it in games. Pc or pubs. Im just curious. Are you for tiericide of Logis? Do you support removing the Amarrs sidearm?
Omega Black Zero Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 68	Posted - 2014.07.11 00:34:00 - [546] - Quote Maybe innate ammo regen for assault class? Would free up a slot for equipment instead of assaults always having to pack nanohives.
Vencio Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2014.07.11 00:54:00 - [547] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The Amarr scout will have a natural low range high precision scan, moving slowly and tanking because of close proximity. The Gallente scout will be the dampener master, being able to be unscannable by sacrificing a lot of slots. The Caldari scout will be the natural long range, low ehp hunter. All of them have the ability to change either range, dampening or precision to alter their desired utility. True to the point and very precise, I am somewhat inclined to how these roles fit specifically based on racial alignment skills. However, my point in here leaves me unconvinced as to how I feel about Gallente Scouts having greatly reduced their Damp from 5% to 3%.... I am certain not everyone agrees in me with this one, but considering Gallente Scout are indeed Stealth (Damp) Masters, why not have it back to our 5% Profile Dampener? The 1% range I feel is unncessesary for the Gallente as it should be directed towards Caldari Scout ( from 4% back to its 5%). Now I have no idea and thoughts about a Secondary bonus for Gallente instead of Range, but it will be greatly appreciate for the rest of Gallente Scouts such as myself to have our 5% Profile Dampener back.
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 764	Posted - 2014.07.11 00:57:00 - [548] - Quote Vencio wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The Amarr scout will have a natural low range high precision scan, moving slowly and tanking because of close proximity. The Gallente scout will be the dampener master, being able to be unscannable by sacrificing a lot of slots. The Caldari scout will be the natural long range, low ehp hunter. All of them have the ability to change either range, dampening or precision to alter their desired utility. True to the point and very precise, I am somewhat inclined to how these roles fit specifically based on racial alignment skills. However, my point in here leaves me unconvinced as to how I feel about Gallente Scouts having greatly reduced their Damp from 5% to 3%.... I am certain not everyone agrees in me with this one, but considering Gallente Scout are indeed Stealth (Damp) Masters, why not have it back to our 5% Profile Dampener? The 1% range I feel is unncessesary for the Gallente as it should be directed towards Caldari Scout ( from 4% back to its 5%). Now I have no idea and thoughts about a Secondary bonus for Gallente instead of Range, but it will be greatly appreciate for the rest of Gallente Scouts such as myself to have our 5% Profile Dampener back. The Amarr only has 2 high slots. You're going to be able to hide now with 2 complex dampeners where at the moment you need three to escape a Cal. By shifting the bonus, you guys are already getting a Buff. YouTube
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6241	Posted - 2014.07.11 00:58:00 - [549] - Quote aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Go ahead and give the Caldari/Amarr Logistics their sidearms. If there's a resurgence of Slayer Logis and players aren't utilizing Logistics for the support role they're intended to be, it'll be evident almost immediately. /shrug I respect your opinions, but I am curious if you feel there is a resurgence now with the Amarr already having that sidearm? I personally do not see it in games. Pc or pubs. Im just curious. Are you for tiericide of Logis? Do you support removing the Amarrs sidearm? Not sure we have the same definition of tieracide. Tieracide, to me, would be getting rid of Standard/Advanced on all the suits and then balancing around Prototype - something I've been wanting done since I first played the game back in 2012 and something that seems to be happening in Legion. Personally, I'd rather cross-racial bonuses be implemented so that racial logistics aren't getting -just- the bonus to their own equipment. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
voidfaction Void of Faction 308	Posted - 2014.07.11 01:01:00 - [550] - Quote Vencio wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The Amarr scout will have a natural low range high precision scan, moving slowly and tanking because of close proximity. The Gallente scout will be the dampener master, being able to be unscannable by sacrificing a lot of slots. The Caldari scout will be the natural long range, low ehp hunter. All of them have the ability to change either range, dampening or precision to alter their desired utility. True to the point and very precise, I am somewhat inclined to how these roles fit specifically based on racial alignment skills. However, my point in here leaves me unconvinced as to how I feel about Gallente Scouts having greatly reduced their Damp from 5% to 3%.... I am certain not everyone agrees in me with this one, but considering Gallente Scout are indeed Stealth (Damp) Masters, why not have it back to our 5% Profile Dampener? The 1% range I feel is unncessesary for the Gallente as it should be directed towards Caldari Scout ( from 4% back to its 5%). Now I have no idea and thoughts about a Secondary bonus for Gallente instead of Range, but it will be greatly appreciate for the rest of Gallente Scouts such as myself to have our 5% Profile Dampener back. Amarr being the new scout hunter with at best an 18db precision a gal scout will only need 1 complex and 1 basic dampener to have 17db profile without a cloak. gal don't need 5% per level. gal will still need 2 complex dampeners and proto cloak to beat the gal logi focus scanner but that will be rare and with a nice warning if we are scanned.

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 418	Posted - 2014.07.11 01:03:00 - [551] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Sole Fenychs wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Can I haz Type II Assault? I miss chromosome I see Type II suits mentioned multiple times in this thread. What did they do? Edit: Vrain Matari wrote: ROF is a dps increase. A 25% dps increase at lvl 5 suit operation is going to drive TTL through the floor. Not interested in going down that road again. It does differentiate Assault and Commando, though. RoF isn't a flat DPS increase, but instead a trade of sustained fire for damage output. It forces earlier reloads. Meanwhile, Commandos get more flat damage. Essentially, this would mean that Commandos are about using their armor and dual light weapons to prolong fights and suppress enemies, while Assaults are the ones doing killing blows with their high DPS, nimble feet and grenades. If we go from this, we might actually differentiate the roles properly. Type IIs are a different variant of the suit that has the same role as the type I but drastically different slot layout. For example a Type II assault may have a second EQ slot but gives up all but 1 of its non tank slots for it. Also had different base stats. I'd trade an equipment slot for better base stats. More shield hp, higher shield recharge, shorter delays, more speed for less armor.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6458	Posted - 2014.07.11 01:07:00 - [552] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ... Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. I'd like to state that if you did move the Codebreakers to high slots, which I hope you will, you will need to reduce the PG Requirement of them which needed to happen anyway. This is a codebreaker module (Complex), why does it take more PG than a complex shield extender and the same PG as a complex armor repair? It's things like this in the game that discourage anything other than brick tanking. You make defensive modules easy as pie to fit but these little support modules cost ten-fold (that means more) than what they should. Besides Codebreakers other ludicrously high resource modules are: Any of the Biotics (Red, Blue, and Green), and PG extenders. see you space cowboy...
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 418	Posted - 2014.07.11 01:12:00 - [553] - Quote Sole Fenychs wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: The True Inferno wrote: For the Assualt skill, could it not be focused on the racial weapons, as this limits freedom. It should be focused on the suit, such as th old ones were, such as, the 25 % sheild bonus we found on the caldari assault, instead of the weapons(freaked reload speed) not having racial bonuses allows lesser beings to contaminate the races with outlandish fittings. in other words, having racial bonuses encourages players to use specific items on specific suits. this allows for easier balancing, as "correct" fits will be easy to predict. its done that way in eve online. the freedom you speak of come from not being forced to fit according to bonuses, at the cost of lesser general effective use of the suit. i think all item should have bonuses of reduce fitting costs when used with racial dropsuits. it would give more distinction between the races So, basically, you want to make the fitting system into a pointless gimmick. There is no point in customization if there's an optimal way of doing things. Unfortunately, Dust doesn't have the necessary systems in place to allow for racial synergies of loadouts, instead of doing hacky bonuses. There's no customization now lol. Apparently dual tanking for max hp is niche? We need the bonuses so we can get away from crap like dual tanking. There's no incentive for anyone to do anything other than stack hp and have a logi follow you around with a repper because guess what? That's the "optimal" way of doing things right now.
Lynn Beck Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 2031	Posted - 2014.07.11 01:24:00 - [554] - Quote Removing the sidearm from the Amarr logi IS NOT the end of the world, and it could always be reintroduced as an ALL RACE INCLUDED type II, trading an equipment and maybe a slot for its' sidearm. Same with assaults, we coul.d introduce a Type II with only 87 off-tank HP, and has 100-200 added HP to its' main type. Example: Minmatar Assault Type I 25 hp/s recharge 4/6 shield delays X.xx movement speed 4/3 slot layout 220/165 HP Type II: 35 HP/s 5/7 shield delays X.xx - .1 slower 5/2 layout 310/87 base HP Caldari Assauly Type I: 30 hp/s 6/8 delays X.xx movement 5/2 layout 280/135 hp Type II: 40 HP/s 7/9 delays X.xx movement 4/3 layout 380/65 HP As a primarily shield tanker, this sounds like changin too much between types, but it still stresses my point, we can always add in a Type II to bring back what was taken, while giving EVERY RACE the same capabilities, increasing overall variety. Why have Amarr lacking a TRUE heavy hugger, just to have some hybrid logi that is shite at both roles, when we could give all races a Hybrid logi, and a Heavy hugger. General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation

CCP Frame C C P C C P Alliance 3000	Posted - 2014.07.11 01:26:00 - [555] - Quote I would like to remind everyone that: CCP Rattati wrote: This is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Please keep your feedback as constructive as possible, and we will listen. :) CCP Frame

LegacyofTable Planetary Response Organisation FACTION WARFARE ALLIANCE 18	Posted - 2014.07.11 02:01:00 - [556] - Quote CCP Frame wrote: I would like to remind everyone that: CCP Rattati wrote: This is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Please keep your feedback as constructive as possible, and we will listen. :) Has changing the Militia Medic fits from having a nanite injector to a repair tool been discussed for charlie? I saw it as a suggestion a while ago in another thread. Would reaaaallly love to have that change. Licensed Thales Hunter Total Thales taken - 18
The Eristic Dust 90210 556	Posted - 2014.07.11 02:04:00 - [557] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: What bonus would you give to the Assault classes to make them more attractive without taking away from the other roles? Second grenade slot, among other stuff I'd kinda be ok with that IF you had to use two different types of grenade. Anything enabling further Core Locus spam is not what this game needs. Sleeks and Contacts desparetly need to be better, though, and by better, I mean they need to give us some reason to use them other than the lulz. Reality is the original Rorschach. Verily! So much for all that.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6462	Posted - 2014.07.11 02:08:00 - [558] - Quote The Eristic wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: What bonus would you give to the Assault classes to make them more attractive without taking away from the other roles? Second grenade slot, among other stuff I'd kinda be ok with that IF you had to use two different types of grenade. Anything enabling further Core Locus spam is not what this game needs. Sleeks and Contacts desparetly need to be better, though, and by better, I mean they need to give us some reason to use them other than the lulz. I'd like to add that the Assault Bonus to weapon reduction should count for grenades as well. see you space cowboy...
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2148	Posted - 2014.07.11 02:10:00 - [559] - Quote aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote: In the past I would have agreed completely. But think about it, Logis are not the slayers they were back in the day, not by half. And even back then it was mostly Cal and Gal, for along time just Caldari really. I think the focus should be on buff Assaults first, then look at logis. Not both at the same time. Agree completely, and if I had my way, we wouldn't even touch Logistics until Hotfix Delta. And sure, it's gotten better since the early days but you ask me to pick between Gal Assault and Gal Logi right now, probably go with the Gallente Logi because the slot layout is better, the fitting cost reduction to equipment trumps weaponry, and dispersion reduction doesn't hardly do jack of [redacted] when it only really applies to the Assault Rifle and Shotgun. All at the cost of a little survivability (covered by the fitting) and some speed. But even then it's bonus toward active scanners is competing with Scouts' passive scans. To expand on my earlier point though, I feel like the only real bonus we can give Assaults at this point without them bleeding into other roles is a regeneration bonus. Armor repair, shield recharge, stuff like that. Damage/rate of fire shoehorns the Commandos, fitting reductions on weaponry just aren't worth it, and extraneous bonuses like dispersion/reload speed are covered by other skills. Yes but it matters. I was in my adv cal assault yesterday. I had std scrambler, and std mag sec. I was fighting Grease Spillet on the back steps of the Gal research facility that leads down to the CRU. I had him down to half armor in his proto Gal Assault and he had my shields depleted. I switched to sidearm and unloaded a clip from my magsec and then began backing up the steps, second tier, as I continued to back up the third tier he came flying around the second tier looking right up at me, but thanks to my reload bonus as soon as his head popped around those steps I put him down, with some strafing and luck I survived. But I marked it in my head right then, I said wow my bonus just saved my a$$. Not the first time either! I cant tell you how many times that Mini assault suit bonus with my rs 90 has kept me alive from multiple scouts, or given me enough ammo in a clip to finish a hvy in his range. This is a great point. All those little Assault bonuses peeps are proposing really add up. Problem is it's hard to quantify. An Assault with smallish(say approx. 2% per level) bonuses to sprint, hardening, reload, dispersion, ammo, melee, resupply, respawn is a much harder animal to put down. In the hands of a good operator, who can exploit those bonuses to create and deny opportunities at multiple points in an engagement, the Assault suit would apply pressure more effectively than any other suit. Which is their job after all. Those bonuses i've listed are really enough, with damage bonuses added the suit would be a monster. PSN: RationalSpark
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2148	Posted - 2014.07.11 02:15:00 - [560] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Go ahead and give the Caldari/Amarr Logistics their sidearms. If there's a resurgence of Slayer Logis and players aren't utilizing Logistics for the support role they're intended to be, it'll be evident almost immediately. /shrug I respect your opinions, but I am curious if you feel there is a resurgence now with the Amarr already having that sidearm? I personally do not see it in games. Pc or pubs. Im just curious. Are you for tiericide of Logis? Do you support removing the Amarrs sidearm? Not sure we have the same definition of tieracide. Tieracide, to me, would be getting rid of Standard/Advanced on all the suits and then balancing around Prototype - something I've been wanting done since I first played the game back in 2012 and something that seems to be happening in Legion. Personally, I'd rather cross-racial bonuses be implemented so that racial logistics aren't getting -just- the bonus to their own equipment. Agree completely(Edit: on the cross racial bonuses, not that other thing). The logi bonuses as implemented are a drag on the game. Any logi should be more effective with equipment than any other suit. If we want to bonus them further for racial flavour, fine, but no logi should be dissuaded from a repping(or any other support) role because they are the wrong race. PSN: RationalSpark

bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 327	Posted - 2014.07.11 02:28:00 - [561] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I do think giving the Cal Logi a side arm and removing a slot in return is a Great idea. That would make since for the current gap of a type II playstyle that the community has proven time and time again they enjoy, and only 1 suit that fills the role. Buuuuuuut we already have a suit that does that. It's teh A-Logi! I dunno, maybe I'm missing something. Like, having a Logistics with a sidearm isn't something new - I don't understand why the Cal Logi is a much more perfect contender when it's already one of the more powerful Logi's in the game and has been for some time. Saying that it would make sense for the current gap of a Type-II playstyle... When we already have a suit that has that... I dunno, just seems like a flawed argument. I can't understand why we're saying that having a sidearm is this giant pipe wrench in balance (and I even agreed!) and then turn around and pretend it wouldn't be a problem on the Cal Logi. No, No. Don't misunderstand. You'd have to look back over several pages of argument (discussion) to get the full picture. We are NOT saying remove the sidearm from the A-Logi. A quick summary to catch you up. Ratti said he was taking the A-Logi sidearm away. Community LOST their minds (at least I did) Community pointed out that the Amarr bonus sucks compared to the Active bonuses of the Min (repper) and Gal (Scanner) and that in order to utilize the Amarr bonus (links) the Amarr needed to be a reasonable fighter. (There were plenty of other arguments, but this is what spawned the Cal Logi discussion) Then it was pointed out that the Cal Logi also had a passive logi bonus (hives) thus a similar logi style to the Amarr, thus should actually get a sidearm. Logi Community agrees And there was much rejoicing! Ah, okay, I see now... Although, I think this is a pretty big cog in the overall balance of things at the expense of just having the Cal/Amarr Logi bonus apply after death but not with a suit change. So if you die, the bonus isn't lost, but if you change suits after death or at a supply depot, it would be. It makes sense that Logistics would -NOT- have sidearms as a means of encouraging them to actually Logi instead of Slay, giving them the opportunity to do so as a means of circumventing doing things correctly is the problem we've always had with Dust 514 and I think we should go the extra mile to make sure it is, in fact, done correctly. The bonuses applying to passive equipment (DU and Nanohive) is more reason, to me, NOT to give them a sidearm in the first place because once you drop the stuff there's no further reason to continue playing the Support Role unless you really like using those other equipment pieces. I just don't see much popularity in running all DU or all Nanohive fits. My concern is that players will drop their passive equipment and reap the benefits while slaying. THIS^ So if their argument is that they need something active to go with their passive equipment bonus, will the Minmatar and Gallente Logis also get passive bonuses to go with their actives? Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel. Cross Atu for CPM1
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 327	Posted - 2014.07.11 02:39:00 - [562] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I think the point here that you're fighting against is the very point we are fighting for. Tell me this. Why would I chose to Cal or Amr over Min if I'm going to spend most of my time with a repair tool in my hand? Or over Gal if I'm looking to scan. The Hive and Link bonus, even if it was working as intended, isn't that great compared to the Active bonuses of the Gal and Min. Sure, but you could make that argument about other suits as well. Why should I use the Gallente Logi, even with it's active bonus, when the Scouts are so much more effective at the job? We're taking measures to change that, sure, but it's not exactly like people are flocking to the Gallente Logi right now. And, again, cross-racial bonuses would help immensely with this. Amarr Logi with specialized bonuses to Drop Uplinks with a secondary bonus to Repair Tools would just make sense since they are Armor tankers, same could be said about the Gallente Logi as well. Gallente Logi only has the bonus to the Active Scanners and even if they are Active, what am I doing when I'm not using the one scanner? Can I have a sidearm on my Gallente Logistics as well..? Original post courtesy of John Demonsbane: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2237028#post2237028 My comment that relates to this string: Regarding equipment bonuses, I like the idea of giving each race both an active (rep tools or scanners) and a passive (uplinks or nanohives) equipment bonus with primary/secondary bonuses like you suggested. Maybe like this: Minmatar = rep tool (p) + nanohives (s) Amarr = uplinks (p) + rep tool (s) Gallente = scanner (p) + uplinks (s) Caldari = nanohives (p) + scanner (s) Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel. Cross Atu for CPM1
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 327	Posted - 2014.07.11 02:53:00 - [563] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: as long as I can use my minmatar logi for babysitting just like it do it now I dont care, my proto logi fit is: 4 proto shield extenders 3 basic ferroscale plates 1 proto armor repairer proto smg proto nade proro repair tool proto nanite injector proto nanohive proto gauged drop uplink decent mix of durability and speed to follow my teammates around the map. full rack of proto equipment to babysit my teammembers along with an SMG and nades for self defense. you already ruined my fast hacking minmatar logi and I will finally quit if you ruin this fit too. Just curious... Why a proto SMG rather than an Advanced 'longer ranged' rifle? Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel. Cross Atu for CPM1
iKILLu osborne Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 54	Posted - 2014.07.11 02:56:00 - [564] - Quote i've been told that the cal scout precision is being nerfed (again), if this is true i expect a respec cause precision is why i chose cal scout because i am a hunter, though i doubt this demand will be met, if not i'm done. Not spending a whole month grinding towards another proto suit class, and i'm getting sick and tired of scrubs getting on forum and crying because they don't know how to counter someone's fit so they call it op, first it was blaster tanks, then rail tanks, then gallente scout , then cal scout, then after everything got nerfed and they was still getting there ass kicked they started saying buff the assualt nerf the hmg. i'm sick of it, get good or go play cod here is a joke, so an amarr scout walks in lol
Mima Sebiestor Vengeance Unbound 1	Posted - 2014.07.11 03:05:00 - [565] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. ~~Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus~~. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. I like all of the proposed changes. However, I would like to add to that which I have quoted. Mainly because I do believe the medium suit scale is tipping to the logi side from both a strong logi fit and a weak assault fit. Remove light weapons (slayer) from the logistic (support) role. Except in the case of Amarr and Caldari; allow them to retain the light weapon (no sidearm) at the cost of fewer equipment slots and speed. They drop stuff, and should have plenty of time to shoot. Modify the Gallente and Minmatar suits so they can only fit a sidearm, with the bonus of having more equipment slots and speed. They spend more time scanning and repairing, and should spend less time with a weapon drawn. With this, I would also like to include a modification of the scan duration/animation. If a scanner has a 5 second duration, let it have a 5 second animation. If nothing is shown in the first second, they can turn and look for targets. If/when a target is found and they turn away, it immediately disappears from radar. This keeps them focused on looking (supporting), and removes finding/killing from range (slaying). Let the duration be a max, which can terminate when needed by drawing your weapon. It also allows the scanner to function more like any suits scan ability, which does not continue to function (track) when range is exceeded. It should not continue to act as both a scanner and a tracker. Maybe later we could introduce trackers, which would require the physical tag of a shot fired. This greater support role should also follow with a greater Intel Kill Assist bonus. The WP increase for level of needle used looks great. Could we not do the same for the level of deployed uplinks and hives? You might have to remove the ability for this equipment to remain on the field, upon selecting a new suit (either from spawn or supply), but this should have been implemented a long time ago to maintain a financial risk for using equipment. If I drop proto equipment and change to a different suit, I will not risk any isk, yet still earn an orbital/war barge strike faster. This last change may also remedy the need to increase the WP cost for such strikes. P.S. My bias is from always playing a Minmatar logi.
iKILLu osborne Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 55	Posted - 2014.07.11 03:19:00 - [566] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: Jack McReady wrote: as long as I can use my minmatar logi for babysitting just like it do it now I dont care, my proto logi fit is: 4 proto shield extenders 3 basic ferroscale plates 1 proto armor repairer proto smg proto nade proro repair tool proto nanite injector proto nanohive proto gauged drop uplink decent mix of durability and speed to follow my teammates around the map. full rack of proto equipment to babysit my teammembers along with an SMG and nades for self defense. you already ruined my fast hacking minmatar logi and I will finally quit if you ruin this fit too. Just curious... Why a proto SMG rather than an Advanced 'longer ranged' rifle? cause he is repping meaning the person who killed his squad mate is already almost dead and smg rips through armor here is a joke, so an amarr scout walks in lol after charlie it will be"oh shlt a amarr scout walked in"
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 327	Posted - 2014.07.11 03:23:00 - [567] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: bogeyman m wrote: Jack McReady wrote: as long as I can use my minmatar logi for babysitting just like it do it now I dont care, my proto logi fit is: 4 proto shield extenders 3 basic ferroscale plates 1 proto armor repairer proto smg proto nade proro repair tool proto nanite injector proto nanohive proto gauged drop uplink decent mix of durability and speed to follow my teammates around the map. full rack of proto equipment to babysit my teammembers along with an SMG and nades for self defense. you already ruined my fast hacking minmatar logi and I will finally quit if you ruin this fit too. Just curious... Why a proto SMG rather than an Advanced 'longer ranged' rifle? cause he is repping meaning the person who killed his squad mate is already almost dead and smg rips through armor So does an ACR, and it's easier to fit. Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel. Cross Atu for CPM1
Doc DDD TeamPlayers 199	Posted - 2014.07.11 03:27:00 - [568] - Quote Ratattati, with the proposed changes to the logi suits the only suit worth spec cong would be: Min logi All suits will have the same layout making the bonus reps of the min logi the only useful logi. Amar losing sidearm makes it even more garbage and not worth speccing for links. Cal is garbage and already inferior to gall and min before impending slot nerf. Can barely stack shields as is with only 3 equip. Stacking armor and standing on triage with bonus is only viable build so LETS NERF ITS ABILITY TO ARMOR STACK! Gal is better at everyrhing than Cal, can at least tank armor and scan, losing a high slot won't make any difference as shields suck anyway. if Cal loses a low (which it shouldn't ) it needs cpu buff and possibly sidearm SINCE YOU ARE MORE INTERESTED IN NERFING A SHIELD BASED SUIT BEFORE FIXING SHIELDS. Homogenized slot numbers DOES NOT BALANCE THE SUITS.
iKILLu osborne Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 55	Posted - 2014.07.11 03:28:00 - [569] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: bogeyman m wrote: Jack McReady wrote: as long as I can use my minmatar logi for babysitting just like it do it now I dont care, my proto logi fit is: 4 proto shield extenders 3 basic ferroscale plates 1 proto armor repairer proto smg proto nade proro repair tool proto nanite injector proto nanohive proto gauged drop uplink decent mix of durability and speed to follow my teammates around the map. full rack of proto equipment to babysit my teammembers along with an SMG and nades for self defense. you already ruined my fast hacking minmatar logi and I will finally quit if you ruin this fit too. Just curious... Why a proto SMG rather than an Advanced 'longer ranged' rifle? cause he is repping meaning the person who killed his squad mate is already almost dead and smg rips through armor So does an ACR, and it's easier to fit. he probably don't want to skill into a fotm that will most likely suffer another nerf and it cost more(i believe) here is a joke, so an amarr scout walks in lol after charlie it will be"oh shlt a amarr scout walked in"
jNs Vit4l THE 300 SPARTANS 5	Posted - 2014.07.11 03:43:00 - [570] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: i've been told that the cal scout precision is being nerfed (again), if this is true i expect a respec cause precision is why i chose cal scout because i am a hunter, though i doubt this demand will be met, if not i'm done. Not spending a whole month grinding towards another proto suit class, and i'm getting sick and tired of scrubs getting on forum and crying because they don't know how to counter someone's fit so they call it op, first it was blaster tanks, then rail tanks, then gallente scout , then cal scout, then after everything got nerfed and they was still getting there ass kicked they started saying buff the assualt nerf the hmg. i'm sick of it, get good or go play cod Couldnt aggree more!! CEO of The 300 Spartans! Leader FC of J PLATOON VIT4L (CFW) CALDARI LOYALIST!!!

501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 255	Posted - 2014.07.11 03:46:00 - [571] - Quote Agreed. The bonus Rattati that you change shouldn't affect SP investment. If so just give us a full Respec already. Yes I brought it up From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
jNs Vit4l THE 300 SPARTANS 5	Posted - 2014.07.11 03:53:00 - [572] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Agreed. The bonus Rattati that you change shouldn't affect SP investment. If so just give us a full Respec already. Yes I brought it up I AGGREE!!!!!!! We speced into cal scouts for the precision not for a useless long range scans, if you ccp are going to CHANGE our bonus to a completetly other bonus then you have to give a respec for cal light frame / cal scout suits to whoever is speced into it so we can choose another role. CEO of The 300 Spartans! Leader FC of J PLATOON VIT4L (CFW) CALDARI LOYALIST!!!
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 31	Posted - 2014.07.11 04:18:00 - [573] - Quote CCP Frame wrote: I would like to remind everyone that: CCP Rattati wrote: This is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Please keep your feedback as constructive as possible, and we will listen. :) Caldari assault definitely needs and extra high slot and keep low slots the same I guess.
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 256	Posted - 2014.07.11 04:46:00 - [574] - Quote CCP Rattati, things to note: The Assaults getting a buff are nice. As I stated earlier, Assaults may not be able to kill hostiles, they just have to keep fire on them long enough for Commandos to slay and such. Heavies slay assaults, commandos, logis, and other heavies. Scouts flank and get behind the heavies. This was why I wanted their turn speed nerfed slightly. It balances out the insane DPS of the HMG and makes for a valid way to kill them instead of REs, which personally I find detestful, and I'm a bloody Matari Loyalist Assaults however have slaying power of scouts because, as I proposed, Scouts get less ammo in their guns. Not so much less that it's crippling, but a small amount so an Assault can keep constant fire. A smart scout like a Caldari will know of their target before the Assault and kill them, Gallente cloak and run right up to close the distance, Amarr duke it out, and Minmatar (which you amazing buff to their PG and Kincats) can either tank shields and cloak with speed, or tank out both, or dampen. The suits are then balanced. The HMG overheat will mostly effect Heavy to Heavy combat, pointing the HMG at anything for around 3 seconds will kill that suit unless it's a heavy or well tanked Commando. The Amarr Logi needs to keep its sidearm because as an Uplinks suit, it is a main target. I kill those logis first because they can bring in reinforcements. Yes, sidearms/dakka is more Minmatar like, but by that Logic then why is the Assault Rifle not called the Plasma Rifle? Why is the Swarm Launcher not a Caldari Weapon, as they use Missiles in Eve? Why is the Nova Knife, a Caldari Charge Weapon given to us Minmatar? It is okay to have inconsistencies, Dust 514, and moreover Legion is not Eve Online, but with that comes the ability to deviate from certain plans. The Logis for the most part at this point are balanced. Just allow the Caldari more CPU and PG as Complex Shield Extenders are terribly costly to fit, and while four Low is a lot, and I don't run the suit, I don't see many Caldari Logistics, so something is wrong. If anything, make it so their bonus increases the Nano-hives they can carry, and nerd the numbers. The original Nanohive- You can carry only one but for less PG and CPU than Militia Ishukone Gauged for all other suits 3, but with less Nanites. Caldari gets 4. You need to sell the bonuses. My Min Logi able to carry 4 Nanohives, I just don't spam them. My hives last through an entire Ambush OMS, and I'm Minmatar. Caldari Logi isn't sellable. The Amarr Logi, is very nice because of that Sidearm, it's the only reason I considered it before I went Matari. It just adds so much, and you are taking that away. I recently as CCP for a respect. I was met with the answer, "It is not possible." Well...some people specced into the Amarr Logi and got proto sidearms JUST for that suit. Yes, they can use it on other suits, but maybe I don't want to. Once again this game is about choice. Giving suits slots allows you to run as YOU, the merc see fit. Forcing all the suits to be the same is nice, only bonuses alone can't sell a suit. By that logi, make all HEAVIES, SCOUTS, ASSAULTS, COMMANDOS, etc have the same slots, with only certain bonuses. It's not like Caldari don't tank shields, so they don't need Low Slots, or Amarr Armor, so they should get VERY high PG and low High slots, or the Min Logi is in a decent place since it Dual Tanks. Basically, once you read this wall of text: Slightly less, say 10-20% the amount of ammo scouts carry, change SENTINEL turn speed( basic heavy keeps turn speed but with takes the PG/CPU reduction as a result. Sentinels should tank hp but be hampered by movement, basic heavies should not be as HP hardcore, but have unrestricted mobility.) Assaults get ammo bonuses to total ammo capacity as well as in clip. No need for reload bonus, that is Commando Logis stay as, unhomogenized. Amarr keeps side arm, gets more PG. Caldari gets whatever they need, ask those guys. Boom, Hotfix Charlie, along with everything you proposed. Discuss From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3716	Posted - 2014.07.11 05:00:00 - [575] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: Original post courtesy of John Demonsbane: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2237028#post2237028 My comment that relates to this string: Regarding equipment bonuses, I like the idea of giving each race both an active (rep tools or scanners) and a passive (uplinks or nanohives) equipment bonus with primary/secondary bonuses like you suggested. Maybe like this: Minmatar = rep tool (p) + nanohives (s) Amarr = uplinks (p) + rep tool (s) Gallente = scanner (p) + uplinks (s) Caldari = nanohives (p) + scanner (s) Thanks for the link. Ive decided I like the second option I proposed better, and fleshed it out a little better in this thread over in GD. The short version is that every logi suit keeps their current 10% (and 5%) bonus to whatever it is they get a bonus for, like spawn times for the Amarr. Then, instead of pairing up races in whatever fashion, just give every logi every bonus, but substantially weaker. Example: Minmatar gets 10% to reps per level, for 50% at PRO. Every other logi suit gets 3%, for 15% at PRO. Not as good as the primary, but nothing to scoff at. As it stands now, unless you are using one specific piece of equipment, a scout can do the logi's job just as well. With this change you separate the classes again, because as we all know, the major problem with medium frames is that scouts do their job just as well (or better). This would no longer be the case as far as logi's are concerned. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 599	Posted - 2014.07.11 05:34:00 - [576] - Quote RKKR wrote: Jadd Hatchen wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Thats all well and good IWS, but coming from someone who was a gallente logi from beta-the most recent respec, carrying a swarm with no sidearm is a death wish. The PLC is not very good at AV or anti-infantry, and the MD (although one of my favorite weapons) and laser are no where near the "AV" mark. If the PLC was in a better place you could get away with calling it the "logi's AV," but its not worth it. Swarms with a sidearm or nothing at all. So now I'm reduced to a repping forgers while the enemy team has AV. I think you are doing it wrong... The AV equivalent for a logi suit is supposed to be prox mines or remote explosives, and you can add in the AV nades as some extra if you like. Any decent tanker spots (or has someone spotting) those. Also good luck in getting close enough to a decent tanker to throw those AVs in a slow ass, small pool stamina suit without getting shot into pieces. Again you're doing it wrong... Logi's are support and shouldn't be trying to do this solo.
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 599	Posted - 2014.07.11 05:38:00 - [577] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Jadd Hatchen wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Thats all well and good IWS, but coming from someone who was a gallente logi from beta-the most recent respec, carrying a swarm with no sidearm is a death wish. The PLC is not very good at AV or anti-infantry, and the MD (although one of my favorite weapons) and laser are no where near the "AV" mark. If the PLC was in a better place you could get away with calling it the "logi's AV," but its not worth it. Swarms with a sidearm or nothing at all. So now I'm reduced to a repping forgers while the enemy team has AV. I think you are doing it wrong... The AV equivalent for a logi suit is supposed to be prox mines or remote explosives, and you can add in the AV nades as some extra if you like. I have been doing remotes for a long time now, basically since the swarm nerf. Swarms are in a better place now, and I would rather not die 50% of the time trying to place 3 remotes on the tailpipe. Besides, you will rarely ever get a GOOD tanker with that. WTF? Placing remotes on a tailpipe!!! That's like **** they do in movies that is not realistic. You place remotes at choke-points and on road where you know the tank will have to cross over them and then blow them up. If you do it right with some support from your AV guys they will chase them over the choke point and they won't have time to think about checking or scanning for the things before retreating over them and then boom. You have to be able to outsmart and predict where the enemy is going to go to use the RE's properly. People that think they are for instant gratification by putting them on jeeps and tanks are cute and get more attention, but as you've already discovered it will get you dead more times than it's worth.
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 599	Posted - 2014.07.11 05:40:00 - [578] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: IMO, Logistics have too many High and Low slots while at the same time their bonuses being limited to only a single Equipment make them no better at being a support player than any other suit. to me that is not a good place. Logi bonus needs to make them better at using all equipment (not just fitting it). Assault bonus needs to make them better at assault role This is why I fracking voted for you . I just can't get enough of the truth and people who love the same . It would be better if Logistics had a bonus that increases the efficacy of all equipment not just race related items . Making the bonuses separate depending on race just created a oversaturation of one races logi or assault or any suit or role for that matter . I for one am Caldari but I had to speck into Minmatar to be a medic and Amarr to lay hives and anti-vehicle . This is just too much and should be a choice and not mandatory . I'm forced to speck into another races items which excluded my own . Are you guys daft? The logi suits already have a fitting bonus for all equipment as it's PRIMARY bonus. It's the secondary that differs for each racial variant and if you make that one the same for all of them, then why have different suits?
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 599	Posted - 2014.07.11 05:47:00 - [579] - Quote Nocturnal Soul wrote: As you can see only ONE guy likes the change to the A-logi ONE!!! Let that sink in for a bit. So far every argument for the sidearm to stay on the A-Logi boils down to, "... I wants my logi to be an AV platform..." Which is NOT what a LOGI is meant to do. It IS what an Assault is meant to do. It is also another reason why many players are using Logi's instead of Assault for that role. Just because people have been using something the wrong way all this time doesn't make it any more correct. Take a look at the HMG dispersion before they fixed it and it acted more like a laser beam than a spray and pray gun. It worked fine back then for those that knew how to use it, but it still got changed to how it is now because that was the way it was supposed to work. The sidearm slot on Logi's and Scouts should NOT be there. It is the main reason that Assaults have lost their role in this game.
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 599	Posted - 2014.07.11 05:55:00 - [580] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Remove the sidearm from the only proto suit i've been able to afford and that pretty much seals the deal for me to never return to Dust. I understand the idea of normalizing the slot layouts but I feel its the wrong way to go personally. The sidearm on the Amarr Logi is what made that suit fun. Having experienced having a sidearm and 3 equipment I could never go back to only having a single weapon. I honestly can't see a reason why you would run a logistics suit over a scout unless you want to run a minmatar medic suit. Amarr logi bridged the gap between minmatar medic and scout-logis. If you look at the numbers, something tells me the Amarr and Minmater logi suits probably greatly outnumber the caldari and gallente logis now. Its not hard to imagine why that might be, uplinks and rep tools are by far the most useful equipments available. I would love to see the number on logi suits in general, in pubs there are enough WP farmers running rep tools to keep the numbers high but they are becoming rather underpowered in general. With scouts and heavies the way they are after 1.7 and 1.8 it seems that straight buffs to the medium suits make more sense to me. imho... adding a sidearm to caldari and doing a slot normalization that way makes much more sense. You have caldari and amarr as 'combat logi' suits with bonuses more oriented towards being near the frontline (uplinks and ammo) while minmatar and gallente logis would be more inclined to focus on their 'active equipment' using rep tools and scanners more in general and not being so inclined to need a sidearm. And that's the problem! You say it right there when you say "scout logi's"!!! There should be no such thing. Scouts are scouts and logi's are logi's. Because this clear definition has been blurred by the scouts having an extra slot issue, you have been blinded to the fact that logi's shouldn't be assault or AV capable like the Assault Dropsuits should be. That is why more people are playing logi's than assault.

501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 258	Posted - 2014.07.11 05:56:00 - [581] - Quote No, assaults have lost this role in the game because Scouts can do what Assaults can. It boils down to slaying. A scout is for relaying intel, hence the passive scans. The problem, they can also kill. Change their ammo in their guns, not limit what they can shoot with. Logis don't slay anymore, I don't understand why people say this. We tank maybe, but I can only take so many core grenade meant to kill my heavy by i get pissed off and tank out my suit. The same goes for "slayer" logis. Assaulting as I keep saying, it prepares for the enemy to falter. If the Assault can break through the enemy defense, great, If not, you have your Scout go in or around with passive intel. They say what they have. The Assaults, which could get a range enhancement and clip bonus for suppressive fire, stop the enemy from advancing if possible, killing off any scouts that were ahead in scouting. Commandos provide extra firepower along with fast logis. Heavies push and move the line up. Scouts are doing their job, they just kill too well. Making them only use side arms is a bad idea, as then it is extremely hard for them to kill. What part of sidearm would allow a scout to kill a tanked out suit. Why are you forcing players to max out a submachine gun or an ion pistol? Cool, two Caldari Scouts wasting all their ammo with Ishukone Subs. Cute, but not what an FPS is about. Assaults need to be killers. Commandos, better killers than assaults Heavies, best killers Scouts. killers if they get behind you or have backup or if they're just plain BADBUTT Logis, Can kill if needed From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 258	Posted - 2014.07.11 05:59:00 - [582] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Remove the sidearm from the only proto suit i've been able to afford and that pretty much seals the deal for me to never return to Dust. I understand the idea of normalizing the slot layouts but I feel its the wrong way to go personally. The sidearm on the Amarr Logi is what made that suit fun. Having experienced having a sidearm and 3 equipment I could never go back to only having a single weapon. I honestly can't see a reason why you would run a logistics suit over a scout unless you want to run a minmatar medic suit. Amarr logi bridged the gap between minmatar medic and scout-logis. If you look at the numbers, something tells me the Amarr and Minmater logi suits probably greatly outnumber the caldari and gallente logis now. Its not hard to imagine why that might be, uplinks and rep tools are by far the most useful equipments available. I would love to see the number on logi suits in general, in pubs there are enough WP farmers running rep tools to keep the numbers high but they are becoming rather underpowered in general. With scouts and heavies the way they are after 1.7 and 1.8 it seems that straight buffs to the medium suits make more sense to me. imho... adding a sidearm to caldari and doing a slot normalization that way makes much more sense. You have caldari and amarr as 'combat logi' suits with bonuses more oriented towards being near the frontline (uplinks and ammo) while minmatar and gallente logis would be more inclined to focus on their 'active equipment' using rep tools and scanners more in general and not being so inclined to need a sidearm. And that's the problem! You say it right there when you say "scout logi's"!!! There should be no such thing. Scouts are scouts and logi's are logi's. Because this clear definition has been blurred by the scouts having an extra slot issue, you have been blinded to the fact that logi's shouldn't be assault or AV capable like the Assault Dropsuits should be. That is why more people are playing logi's than assault. People are playing more logi than Assault because they can tank hp while having Equipment if their team needs it. Scouts are prevalent because of the small hitboxes and bonuses. The Minmatar and Amarr assaults are out in great numbers because people, including myself, do get kills with them. From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 599	Posted - 2014.07.11 06:00:00 - [583] - Quote Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Can you clarify this? I was under the impression that the stacking of bonuses for dropship gunners was intended to be a reward for skill points invested in the role, not a bug. I don't believe this is as much of an issue as people seem to think it is. Not only is it a massive investment of skill points and time on the part of the pilot/gunner, but by fitting an extra turret it reduces the dropship's fitting capabilities and creates a risk-reward scenario. If it has to be changed in some way, can we at least reward gunners with some sort of bonus for their chosen profession and allocation of time? Perhaps cut the ROF bonus in half or allow gunners to otherwise apply tangible buffs to the vehicles they are riding in. Actually I have to agree with this. This is one of the few cases where I think that, you CCP, should take a look at this bug and how to retain it as an improvement on gameplay. Maybe knock down the current small turret bonuses by half so that when both the pilot and the gunner have them maxed out they get the same benefit as they would have if only one set of skills applied.
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 599	Posted - 2014.07.11 06:02:00 - [584] - Quote Beld Errmon wrote: Mauren NOON wrote: PANDA UZIMAKI wrote: [quote=CCP Rattati]All, * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS * Reduced ADS ISK price Pilot stacking bug removing vehicles from ambush all together huh? I wouldn't advice it seeing that that's where all the proto stompers get their fastest kills and like I said before the only people to put them in like is vehicle support. Now you can listen to the requests of the many rattati or you can listen to the request of the ones who are actually right on this subject. Reducing ADS prices is just a TERRIBLE IDEA I MEAN THINK ABOUT IT no im just kidding its awesome crazy over priced please do that there weak as heck anyways they need love for once. and by the pilot stack bug do you mean the gunner being able to shoot the full say 70% faster but in return the pilot only being able to shoot say only his 40% if that's what he has his skill lvl on? He would be right....that helps dropships and gunners. It makes python able to do AV. I wouldn't call that a bug. It's an incentive for putting all of that sp into that skill no, its a bug and people exploit the F out of it, its not the nice small numbers that duna pet states, its more like gunner gets 120% dmg 100% rof and twice as much ammo, couldn't be fixed sooner. Or keep the bug like I suggested and just half the bonuses so that they are more reasonable.
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 258	Posted - 2014.07.11 06:02:00 - [585] - Quote I agree with the above post From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 599	Posted - 2014.07.11 06:09:00 - [586] - Quote Finn Colman wrote: Jadd Hatchen wrote: ??? What? Seriously? I was only posting about them everyday for a week a couple weeks back! How quickly people forget things. These are still problems in the game. In addition, the scout dropsuits being better at assault than assaults are is sitll a problem and won't be fixed by the proposed Charlie fixes. Instead Scouts need to either loose their sidearm slot (still have the light weapons slot that can be used for either light weapons or sidearms) or reduce the number of equipment slots to ONLY one just like everyone else that is NOT a logi! In either case the appropriate amount of PG/CPU reduction for the loss of either slot needs to be done concurrently to ensure that brick tanking scouts doesn't become the norm after that. Why remove a slot from scouts? Because the original idea before cloaks was that Scouts should either gain an equipment slot and loose a sidearm slot to be able to do this OR they maintain the two weapon layout (one light with one sidearm) but do NOT gain an extra equipment slot. Right now, a scout can cloak and still use all the same weapons an assault can which makes the scout more deadly than an assault for gunplay. This blurs the lines between the Assault and the Scout roles. Additionally, because they have TWO equipment slots, this make them into a "mini-logi" and this blurs the roles between Logi and Scout. So by either removing the extra equipment slot or by removing the extra weapon slot (sidearm one) and the CPU/PG that goes with that slot removal, then you make the Scout have to choose it's role carefully. I personally would like to see the removal of the sidearm slot from the Scout suit much like the Logi has it removed. This makes it clear what the role of the Scout is to be in my mind. Whoa, watch that generalisation. I cannot fit a light weapon, good modules, and a cloak at the same time on my Min scout. If I fit a cloak, it means I'm down to two sidearms and the lowest CPU/PG modules I can fit. I'd like to think that that is an okay balance. Really though, I just don't think cloaks are useful to me, though I have seen many people using them better than I do. Huh? You're fitting skills must be very lacking then because I can fit a decent assault rifle (sometime when froggy I'll fit a mass driver or PLC instead) and a good sidearm (SMG) with cloak, decent enough tank to keep me alive and still have that extra equipment slot to use for a spare uplink or nanohive (sometimes an RE). If I want to go max tank, then I only use one of the equipment slots for a cloak and leave the second one EMPTY! Since CCP calculated the total PG/CPU for the suit to be using both equipment slots, that means if I do not fill one then I get a LOT of extra CPU/PG for the other things. And when I do that, it's like turning a Scout into an Assault only with the benefit of the CLOAK! You ever play HALO on maps with the rocket launchers and cloaking? It's like doing that and the other guy doesn't know what hit him and if you keep doing it to him he finally gets fed up and quits. You can say it's a fair match all you want to, but in the end who would ever want to stick to the assault rifle and no cloak vs. the cloaky rocket launcher guy?
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 599	Posted - 2014.07.11 06:19:00 - [587] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Remove the sidearm from the only proto suit i've been able to afford and that pretty much seals the deal for me to never return to Dust. I understand the idea of normalizing the slot layouts but I feel its the wrong way to go personally. The sidearm on the Amarr Logi is what made that suit fun. Having experienced having a sidearm and 3 equipment I could never go back to only having a single weapon. I honestly can't see a reason why you would run a logistics suit over a scout unless you want to run a minmatar medic suit. Amarr logi bridged the gap between minmatar medic and scout-logis. If you look at the numbers, something tells me the Amarr and Minmater logi suits probably greatly outnumber the caldari and gallente logis now. Its not hard to imagine why that might be, uplinks and rep tools are by far the most useful equipments available. I would love to see the number on logi sutis in general, in pubs there are enough WP farmers running rep tools to keep the numbers high but in general they are becoming rather underpowered in general. With scouts and heavies the way they are after 1.7 and 1.8 it seems that straight buffs to the medium suits make more sense to me. imho... adding a sidearm to caldari and doing a slot normalization that way makes much more sense. You have caldari and amarr as 'combat logi' suits with bonuses more oriented towards being near the frontline (uplinks and ammo) while minmatar and gallente logis would be more inclined to focus on their 'active equipment' using rep tools and scanners more in general and not being so inclined to need a sidearm. The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance. The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG. Get with the facts. Look I wouldn't be so frustrated if you agreed that you are screwing us for a "bigger picture". Sure why not. But you actually think you know better than us, the remaining players. The side arm is not what makes the A-Logi the A-logi. The bonus is. The Side Arm is a plus that we have gotten used to and have found our niche with. It is the weakest logi without it. You aren't making it better. HOw many people have to tell you this? How many hours do we all need to play as A-Logi to show this to you? Let us know so we can do it. At this point, I think you are making this change on whim and selfishness. I think you guys are doing this to sell more Aur by getting people to skill into new suits, etc. and thus using real world money to support you guys. I don't think this is authentically for the greater good of the game because the greater good. The logis are just different enough to warrant an actual decision. make them the same and everyone will be Min Logi in the future. EVERYONE. It's the fastest, decent CPU/PG, the best bonus, etc. Everyone will eventually be a Min logi OR not logi at all. Currently you see logis. Cal = slayer logi Gal = tanker logi Min = Versatile, support Amarr = AV-ish, spawn specialist Your statements don't explain it well. "It's different and I don't like different" isn't good enough to convince us. You do whatever you want, it's your game and I just play it. Don't make the change YET. Get a new discussion on it and push it to delta. Ease people into it. We don't want it or like it so doing it isn't better for us. Or we get a respec. It's different and not like the others so you are making it like the others. Thus it isn't what I spent my hours and AUR (boosters) to have. I should have all A-Logi SP refunded to include the A-Med SP but I'll deal if that doesn't happen. WTF??? Actually you are the one that has misconceptions on what a LOGISTIC dropsuit is meant to do. They are not meant to be fighting directly themselves except when needed as a last defense option. As a combat medic they are suppose to worry about reviving your friendlies. As a repairer, they are supposed to repair armor on suits and vehicles and installations. As a supplier they are supposed to generate more ammo for everyone else so they don't run out. As a beacon expert they are supposed to be able to light the beacons for the other dropsuits to drop onto. As a demolitions expert they are supposed to protect/mine important areas/objectives. In every case, they support and are NEVER meant to be a "slayer", "tanker", or "anti-vehicle" expert. So the only one that you kinda got right in your description above is the Minmatar one. But why do you have this wrong impression of what a Logi Dropsuit does? Because the Logi Dropsuit has been exploited to be one thing or another that it was not meant to be ever since they were introduced to this game. Originally they were exploited to be slayers (which is why people prefer them over assault). Then they were exploited for tanking (making them better than Heavies). Then they were exploited for anti-vehicle (again making them preferred over AV heavies and AV assaults). Do you see the issue now? Logis should NOT be better than Assaults and Heavies at the jobs that Assaults and Heavies were meant to fulfill.
Lynn Beck Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 2031	Posted - 2014.07.11 06:24:00 - [588] - Quote Frog sxcout can fit all it damn well pleases. Try fitting even HALF of what your Frog can fit on a Minja, and cry in furious tears ad it crumples at 3 mods and a gun. Minja can fit: 3 kincats 2 extenders 1 damp 1 M1 locus 1 pro knife 1 adv CR Frog can fit: 2 extenders 3 kincats 1 damp PRO nade PRO cr PRO knives And: K-2 nano K-2 nano or stable uplink Why is there such an insane disparity in fitting? Same PG costs, but minja can't even fit a decent gun, let alone even FILLING his equips. Frog on the other hand, fits DAMN NEAR FULL PROTO I think this happened back when they were introducin the racial scouts, ad originally the Minja was going to have L+S + 1 Eq The rest were going to have L + 2 Eq When they changed the eq/ sidearm disparity, by 'don't give them extra fitting' we didn't mean 'don't touch them afterwards' because, comparing a Proto Eq to a Proto Sidearm is terrible. Sidearm is like 8-12 PG, while an EQ goes to upwards of 12-20 PG, thus probably explains why Minja is so effin short on fitting, but EVEN then, we can't even fit 1 equip, let alone our modules halfway decently. I wish i could ask Ratatti to carefully mull over fitting costs for each module, and each suit's fitting capabilities, because then he could say 'hmm, Pg on Codebreakers is insane... And, identical to Armor Repairs.' 'Well, the Kincats cost more CPU than scanning mods, and they're also prohibitive on PG.' 'Shield extenders aren't being fitted on shield suits because they cost 2x the CPU, but cost identical PG.' Sadly, that will have to wait until Legion 2.0 General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 599	Posted - 2014.07.11 06:30:00 - [589] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: All, . . . stuff As a logi I would like to add my opinion to this conversation. Before I continue I apologise because it seems like I have more questions than feedback Not sure why the need for a speed reduction when even with an enhanced kincat on an ADV Min logi suit i can struggle to keep up ( some ) heavies. On this basis are you looking to reduce the speed on the heavies as well ? Isn't a logis role to support the battlefield ? How am i supposed to do that if I can't keep up with the battlefield ? I have spent SP into being able to run & fit kincats to allow me to be more mobile because the logi always seems to slow. Oh and before anyone says anything about stacking tank mods, I always look to get a balance between the best equipment I can fit then look at the best tank I can run. I like my logi to be mobile not a static WP pinata winnebago lumbering around the battlefield. Is the 'standardisation' of logi equipment slots a way of justifying why scouts have 2 equipment slots ? I do understand the need to balance slot layout between the races but I have never felt that the Amarr logi suffered unduly by having 1 less module slot & gaining the sidearm slot. A lot of people were sold on the idea of a 'combat' logi, especially me. Place the uplinks & defend the area. Or push & attack & move the front line up with uplinks, then defend them. i don't know, I feel as if I play a different game to the one CCP sees sometimes. Cloak bonus, meh I could care less. I can't do anything cloaked. I wouldn't loose sleep over some one running a crazy speed damped cloak shotgun logi, not when scouts can do that much better already. WP for injectors, brilliant & about time. I love the scaling with SP investment & cost. I also hope you look at the option of choosing whether to be revived once a player is downed also. Maybe to reduce the spam a bit more is too reduce the initial WP reward for a rez & have bonus WP reward if the rez'd player stays alive for a period of time. I am pretty sure this was suggested a long time ago. I have to agree that as a dedicated logi that has to keep up with a Heavy Suit 1005 of the time, I am already UNABLE to do so as they will be sprinting to make a kill and if I have the rep tool on them then I am limited to a WALKING ONLY pace and thus loose out on gaining any Guardian WPs and become the brightly lit yellow target that cannot run away because that yellow beam means I can only walk and not run. It's not that the Amarr "suffer" for not having the extra equipment slot. It's the opposite... The other races suffer for not having the sidearm slot. With a sidearm slot on a logi (back when they had them) I would always fit a Mass Driver and an SMG or a PLC with SMG or a Swarm Launcher with SMG. This makes it so that no one wants to play an assault as the logi does it better. Honestly, I don't care about the cloak one way or another either, but I will say that with 4 slots, loosing one to a cloak means that I can cross open areas more safely without being picked off by snipers all the time. I like the WP for injectors idea too... now to hope that it actually works right. I think it would be awesome if they just made one simple change... You already have a push button to call for help/revive on the death-screen. Why not default it so that the bleeding out player icon doesn't show up on the screen/map for the injector wielder until after this help/revive me button is pushed. Then and only then will they show up for being revived.
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 599	Posted - 2014.07.11 06:33:00 - [590] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: Remove the sidearm from the only proto suit i've been able to afford and that pretty much seals the deal for me to never return to Dust. I understand the idea of normalizing the slot layouts but I feel its the wrong way to go personally. The sidearm on the Amarr Logi is what made that suit fun. Having experienced having a sidearm and 3 equipment I could never go back to only having a single weapon. I honestly can't see a reason why you would run a logistics suit over a scout unless you want to run a minmatar medic suit. Amarr logi bridged the gap between minmatar medic and scout-logis. If you look at the numbers, something tells me the Amarr and Minmater logi suits probably greatly outnumber the caldari and gallente logis now. Its not hard to imagine why that might be, uplinks and rep tools are by far the most useful equipments available. I would love to see the number on logi sutis in general, in pubs there are enough WP farmers running rep tools to keep the numbers high but in general they are becoming rather underpowered in general. With scouts and heavies the way they are after 1.7 and 1.8 it seems that straight buffs to the medium suits make more sense to me. imho... adding a sidearm to caldari and doing a slot normalization that way makes much more sense. You have caldari and amarr as 'combat logi' suits with bonuses more oriented towards being near the frontline (uplinks and ammo) while minmatar and gallente logis would be more inclined to focus on their 'active equipment' using rep tools and scanners more in general and not being so inclined to need a sidearm. The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance. The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. So why not give ALL the logis a side-arm. Your arguement is, we have to because its the only one with a sidearm.. so why do you have to take it away? Why not give the other logis a sidearm if its such a huge dilema. The only reason the sidearm was taken away was to differentiate from assault. But the suits are soo much different than they were then. You can differentiate them through the bonuses. Because that's what they all had originally and it was found that the logi-slayer class was born! And no one wanted to play an Assault ever again. So they "fixed" that back in beta, only they didn't completely fix it as they left it on the Amarr which was dumb and is why Amarr Logi's are probably the best ones right now.

Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 599	Posted - 2014.07.11 06:36:00 - [591] - Quote deezy dabest wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. The amarr should not lose its sidearm. The amarr logi bonus most requires you to stay in your logi for a true benefit for the team and gives up an equipment slot to be viable in such a way. Also another slot on the Amarr logi only increases uplink spam which is not needed. Why not ask CCP to make the Amarr Logi bonus continue to applie as long as they don't change out of an Amarr Logi suit? This would make more sense to fix the issue you are describing here, rather than continue to make the A-Logi more slayer like than the assault suits are.
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 599	Posted - 2014.07.11 06:38:00 - [592] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: I don't really mind having seven slots on my Amarr Logi, though I would like a fourth equipment. But if the cost of that (of either of those) is my sidearm, I don't want it. My sidearm is only valuable in niche situations, and offers a point of difference from the other logis. To expand, Amarr Logistics currently has thirteen slots, where all the other logis have fourteen. This appears to be a remnant from the original introduction wherein the Amarr frames had lower slot layouts than the other races did, which is to say, it is not because a sidearm is arbitrarily more valuable than another slot (which I don't think it is, necessarily). Increasing the CalLogi equips would bring it up to 15, increasing further the divide. In that vein I think it would be reasonable for Amarr Logistics to have an increased equipment slot capacity anyway. I'd also like for it to have at least CPU/PG quantities in line with the other suits, if not more as compensation for the lower slots (as appeared to be the old logic with the Assault). I don't think that it is fair that you're A-Logi can have a sidearm. I miss the days of using a Mass Driver and having an SMG as backup on my M-Logi suit. If I cannot have that benefit that makes your suit more viable than an Assault, then what gives you the right to have it?
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 599	Posted - 2014.07.11 06:48:00 - [593] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Booby Tuesdays wrote: So, you are basically buffing 2 logis, and slightly nerfing all of them? Is the Amarr logi now going to be slower than a Min Commado? The Min Logi already is the second lowest HP suit in the game, and you are going to make it even slower? Por que? The low HP suits have at least been marginally faster than the rest. It's hard enough to outrun an HMG as a Min Logi, and now I'm going to be slower, while everyone else is faster AND has higher eHP? I'm so confused by this logic.... The logic seems to be assaults are garbage and people use logis more, so we have to make logis worse than assaults are. 12 pages of this and I havent seen any other reason... I dont think we need to make logis just plain out worse than assaults; just not as desired for attack in comparison to assaults. Assaults should be superior in pressing the enemy Logis should be superior in pressing their allies forward. And a PG/CPU buff isnt going to do it. As long as a Rail Rifle is the same on a logi as it is on an assault, nothing will change. The assaults need a real bonus, a reason to be used. As long as logis have the same damage output and more equipment, they will be the go to medium frame. The issue is not logis, its assaults. Edited the weapon used in the example, because as ScR is NOT the same on a logi as a Assault, therefore the amarr assault ACTUALLY gets used. You know, you are right, but your implementation is incorrect. I think that in addition to having a fitting bonus to all light weapons on the assault suit, they should also get fitting bonuses to their racially based tanking option... What do I mean? Amarr Assault get a bonus to fitting armor plates and fero plates. Gallente Assault get a bonus to fitting reactive plates and armor repairers. Caldari Assault get a bonus to fitting shield extenders. Minmatar Assault get a bonus to fitting shield rechargers and reactive plates. These would all be in addition to a fitting bonus for all light weapons on the assault suits and the current bonuses to damage for using specific racial guns on assault suits. This will make Assaults more able to fit more tank like the logi's get to do because the logis have more PG/CPU than the Assaults. This is because the Logi's have to fit all that equipment, but if they don't fit the equipment, then they can abuse all that PG/CPU for tank instead. But if the Assault gets a bonus that lets them fit even more tank, then they will be more desired for this than the Logis. Combine that with a bonus for fitting and damage for light weapons on the Assault and you have more reason to use the Assault for upfront fighting/slaying than the logis.
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 599	Posted - 2014.07.11 06:51:00 - [594] - Quote Finn Colman wrote: A medi-scout's view on Amarr heavies losing their sidearms (main non-story based points will be Underlined, bolded and Italicised: When I began in Dust I took a through look before buying any new suits. I looked at every class and every race. Out of all of them, the Amarr appeared to me as the worst. They simply don't fit my preferences. They have the highest health, at an expense to speed. I liked their weapons better than the rest (this was before all of the new sidearms and rifles), but their suits to me were just awful. I only skilled into their heavy suit because it was the only one at the time. In logistics I found that the only interesting ones were the Amarr and the Minmatar. The Minmatar were my favourite drop suit race because they are the fastest, and in terms of a useful logi bonus, the Minmatar had the best. There was only one reason I even considered Ammar, and that was the sidearm. But, again I moved on to the scouts. Of course I picked the fastest suit I could get, the Minmatar scout. At first I was just an average Minja wannabe. It wasn't until later that I found that I could be a medic in a scout suit. This has been my main fit ever since. And this fact that you only considered the A-Logi because of it's sidearm only demonstrates how much of a huge advantage this gives that suit over all of the other logi suits.
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 599	Posted - 2014.07.11 06:54:00 - [595] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Also, might be beating a dead horse, but I really think the Amarr logi should keep the sidearm and not gain the equipment, it would be a fair tradeoff for having less equipment than other logis, and thus balanced. I can adapt to the loss of the sidearm if I need to though, I have a proto Amarr logi, and I don't think the changes would be too disruptive. Also, you reeeeaaaally should put the high/low slot thing in the original post, would have saved me a lot of typing about the slot inequalities. I want the sidearm, that's a given. But I would prefer an equipment to a mod slot; improve my logi, not my slaying. But there are two other logis with extra equipment, if you wanted the equipment over a sidearm, why not go min/gal? We specced amarr for a reason, that reason was links (broken atm) and a sidearm. Thats it... And I went Minmatar for everything because I wanted to support only one side of the Faction Warfare stuff. So if you give one side a benefit and no similar one or a counter to it to the other side, then you are creating a situation for imbalance in the races. I still hate that the Amarr and Minmatar don't have vehicles or turrets.
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 599	Posted - 2014.07.11 06:56:00 - [596] - Quote Mauren NOON wrote: Man... if they actually implement that logi nerf....people will hate devs even more o.O this is a sign Rattati, don't do it. Community say NAY Community says nay because community likes to exploit the imbalance the current setup creates. Asking a crack user to regulate their crack usage like this is dumb.
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 599	Posted - 2014.07.11 06:58:00 - [597] - Quote Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Lorhak Gannarsein wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Also, might be beating a dead horse, but I really think the Amarr logi should keep the sidearm and not gain the equipment, it would be a fair tradeoff for having less equipment than other logis, and thus balanced. I can adapt to the loss of the sidearm if I need to though, I have a proto Amarr logi, and I don't think the changes would be too disruptive. Also, you reeeeaaaally should put the high/low slot thing in the original post, would have saved me a lot of typing about the slot inequalities. I want the sidearm, that's a given. But I would prefer an equipment to a mod slot; improve my logi, not my slaying. But there are two other logis with extra equipment, if you wanted the equipment over a sidearm, why not go min/gal? We specced amarr for a reason, that reason was links (broken atm) and a sidearm. Thats it... This is what I meant; to expand, I don't want my logi to be a slayer suit. Adding a slot and keeping the sidearm is heading in that direction. I would much rather keeping the sidearm for self-defence and having another equipment slot to round out my layout. I would love to get a sidearm slot on my M-Logi and loose an equipment to get it. I also recognize how useful and unbalancing this situation is to the logis that don't get to have a sidearm. That is why it is broken and needs to go away.
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 603	Posted - 2014.07.11 07:02:00 - [598] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: Mauren NOON wrote: I'm a proto amarr commando and I don't want assaults to have that skill because the only thing commandos have going for them is 2 lights. And giving amarr assault a damage and heat build up bonus will be as broken as Rihanna's jaw bone..... Good Ol Rihanna jokes. That's a ride or die chick I swear. My type though so I can't bash on her. Anyway. My suggestion stands at a stamina regen decrease, 10% speed increase, 10% base HP increase, movement penalty (i.e. armor plates) reduction per level. Maybe add an entire nade slot and increase passive scan a little maybe a base of 35. The only thing I can think of that I might be able to jump on board with as far as logi's are concerned is logis can't fit Damage mods. Problem solved. People will be assault for the DPS. Thoughts? Actually I like this idea! But instead implement it differently... Make all damage mods cost like double/triple what they are now and then give assaults and commando's a fitting bonus for both sidearm and light weapon damage mods. Give Heavy suits a fitting bonus for the heavy damage mods. And give scouts a fitting bonus for the sidearm damage mods. The logi's will be the only suits that will have to pay full "price" for fitting damage mods then.
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 603	Posted - 2014.07.11 07:15:00 - [599] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. The slowest Logis would still of course move faster than the fastest heavy, something like +0.05 on the Assault or -0.05 on the Logi. So if that's the biggest worry, we have no problem in only buffing the Assault speed. That's not what's causing the issue. The issue is that I cannot run with my repair tool locked onto my Heavy bro, so if he sprints, then is is faster and I loose lock on him around corners and then have a delay before I can relock onto him again.
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 258	Posted - 2014.07.11 07:17:00 - [600] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. The slowest Logis would still of course move faster than the fastest heavy, something like +0.05 on the Assault or -0.05 on the Logi. So if that's the biggest worry, we have no problem in only buffing the Assault speed. That's not what's causing the issue. The issue is that I cannot run with my repair tool locked onto my Heavy bro, so if he sprints, then is is faster and I loose lock on him around corners and then have a delay before I can relock onto him again. Learn when to run after your heavy, when to rep. Tell him to stop. Use the Six Kin Triage or Lai Dai Flux so that isn't a problem From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.

Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 603	Posted - 2014.07.11 07:24:00 - [601] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance. The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. I'm reposting this from another thread in hopes that either your or Logibro will read it. You guys need to stop and ask yourselves what the role of the Caldari and Amarr logistics is on the field. They both drop passive equipment, and once that is done (literally takes about 1-2s to drop an uplink or nanohive) what is supposed to be their purpose on the battlefield? If you think all logis should then pull out their rep tool and start repairing, then why would anyone run anything but Minmatar Logi? Simply for aesthetics? If a logi suit is supposed to spend the majority of their time repping, then there is almost no reason for any other logi suit to exist than the min logi, because it is specifically bonused for that. The Minmatar and Gallente logi suits are centered around active equipment, that is, equipment you spend most of your time using. The Caldari and Amarr logi suits are centered around passive equipment, which leaves them free to pursue other non logistics tasks like slaying. This also makes sense as both of these passive equipment are meant to be more around the frontline, the Caldari and Amarr Logi need their combat efficacy to protect their passive equipment. You need to think about each suits role on the field and how to better reinforce that idea. Gallente/Minmatar Active Equipment High Mobility Low combat efficiency High Logistics efficiency Amarr/Caldari Passive equipment Low mobility Moderate combat efficiency Low logistics efficiency If you remove the sidearm on Amarr logi and give them a 4th equip slot, they just become a poor copy of the Min/Gal suits. They still have low logistics efficacy because their bonuses are not designed for logistics efficiency. If you serious about type-II versions. Then you need to completely rethink the bonuses so that the high logistics efficiency variant has a bonus to active equipment and the combat efficiency variant has a bonus to passive equipment to better reinforce the role of each suit. You would essentially need to make a set of medic suits centered entirely around the nanite injector and rep tool. While the combat version would be around passive equipment like hives and links. Every suit would have close to the same bonus, and the flavor would come from the slot layout. You could give the combat logi a L/S and the medic an S or S/S setup and boost the speed and hp of the medic up substantially to reinforce the role that they should be running around repping and reviving. If you move forward with this as it is though, you will essentially render the non-Minmatar logi suits obsolete. I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. OMG please don't! If any race would have MORE GUNS rather than any other stuffs it would be the Minmatar! Why do you guys seem to hate the Minmatar in this game?
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 603	Posted - 2014.07.11 07:28:00 - [602] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. {snip} So (for example): 8 modules + 4 equip + L + nade for Gallente/Minmatar and: 7 Modules + 3 equip + L/S + nade for Amarr/Caldari Okay this is WRONG! As now the FW for the Amarr/Caldari side would be the only side with the slayer capable logis and the Gal/Min side would suffer horribly for it in FW battles. IF you do this (and I highly recommend that you don't), then it needs to be the Minmatar and NOT the Caldari that receive the extra sidearm slot!!!!
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 603	Posted - 2014.07.11 07:45:00 - [603] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I do think giving the Cal Logi a side arm and removing a slot in return is a Great idea. That would make since for the current gap of a type II playstyle that the community has proven time and time again they enjoy, and only 1 suit that fills the role. Buuuuuuut we already have a suit that does that. It's teh A-Logi! I dunno, maybe I'm missing something. Like, having a Logistics with a sidearm isn't something new - I don't understand why the Cal Logi is a much more perfect contender when it's already one of the more powerful Logi's in the game and has been for some time. Saying that it would make sense for the current gap of a Type-II playstyle... When we already have a suit that has that... I dunno, just seems like a flawed argument. I can't understand why we're saying that having a sidearm is this giant pipe wrench in balance (and I even agreed!) and then turn around and pretend it wouldn't be a problem on the Cal Logi. No, No. Don't misunderstand. You'd have to look back over several pages of argument (discussion) to get the full picture. We are NOT saying remove the sidearm from the A-Logi. A quick summary to catch you up. Ratti said he was taking the A-Logi sidearm away. Community LOST their minds (at least I did) Community pointed out that the Amarr bonus sucks compared to the Active bonuses of the Min (repper) and Gal (Scanner) and that in order to utilize the Amarr bonus (links) the Amarr needed to be a reasonable fighter. (There were plenty of other arguments, but this is what spawned the Cal Logi discussion) Then it was pointed out that the Cal Logi also had a passive logi bonus (hives) thus a similar logi style to the Amarr, thus should actually get a sidearm. Logi Community agrees And there was much rejoicing! Ah, okay, I see now... Although, I think this is a pretty big cog in the overall balance of things at the expense of just having the Cal/Amarr Logi bonus apply after death but not with a suit change. So if you die, the bonus isn't lost, but if you change suits after death or at a supply depot, it would be. It makes sense that Logistics would -NOT- have sidearms as a means of encouraging them to actually Logi instead of Slay, giving them the opportunity to do so as a means of circumventing doing things correctly is the problem we've always had with Dust 514 and I think we should go the extra mile to make sure it is, in fact, done correctly. The bonuses applying to passive equipment (DU and Nanohive) is more reason, to me, NOT to give them a sidearm in the first place because once you drop the stuff there's no further reason to continue playing the Support Role unless you really like using those other equipment pieces. I just don't see much popularity in running all DU or all Nanohive fits. My concern is that players will drop their passive equipment and reap the benefits while slaying. THIS^ So if their argument is that they need something active to go with their passive equipment bonus, will the Minmatar and Gallente Logis also get passive bonuses to go with their actives? Exactly, if we are going to base logi bonuses on active vs. passive, then all four races need to have them both. I honestly would trade in my equipment slot on my M-Logi any day of the week for a sidearm slot!
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3576	Posted - 2014.07.11 07:45:00 - [604] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. {snip} So (for example): 8 modules + 4 equip + L + nade for Gallente/Minmatar and: 7 Modules + 3 equip + L/S + nade for Amarr/Caldari Okay this is WRONG! As now the FW for the Amarr/Caldari side would be the only side with the slayer capable logis and the Gal/Min side would suffer horribly for it in FW battles. IF you do this (and I highly recommend that you don't), then it needs to be the Minmatar and NOT the Caldari that receive the extra sidearm slot!!!! Ha ha nope Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt! The eyes of God compelles you!!!
Jadd Hatchen Kinda New here 603	Posted - 2014.07.11 07:59:00 - [605] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Jadd Hatchen wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. The slowest Logis would still of course move faster than the fastest heavy, something like +0.05 on the Assault or -0.05 on the Logi. So if that's the biggest worry, we have no problem in only buffing the Assault speed. That's not what's causing the issue. The issue is that I cannot run with my repair tool locked onto my Heavy bro, so if he sprints, then is is faster and I loose lock on him around corners and then have a delay before I can relock onto him again. Learn when to run after your heavy, when to rep. Tell him to stop. Use the Six Kin Triage or Lai Dai Flux so that isn't a problem I have, but I know that everyone hasn't. I also only repair for a heavy in pairs like that when I know we have reliable voice comms and they know not to leave me behind. But that is usually not the case all the time and is frustrating if you want to do logi when you cannot find a decent heavy partner. Also, why is there such a freaking tiny hitbox for repair tools only? It's too small in many cases.
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8729	Posted - 2014.07.11 08:00:00 - [606] - Quote I applaud the decision to swap the Amarr logi sidearm to an equipment. As someone part of a corporation that only uses Amarr suits, having the odd logi out was always more of a handicap than anything. Sure it was unique, but unique isn't always better and rarely balanced. Well organized squads don't need a logi with a sidearm, they have assaults and commandos floor that. What they need it's someone who can bring all the equipment. None of this "Amarr/Caldari low logi efficiency in exchange for some combat, all logistics needs 4 equipment at proto. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
Aran Abbas Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 427	Posted - 2014.07.11 09:20:00 - [607] - Quote Hi Rattati, If I fit 4 militia drop uplinks, I can only have one uplink active at a time, right? Should I not be able to have 4 active uplinks at the same time since I'm expending 4 slots? Maybe something to consider as part of the Amarr bonus, or all round?
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1493	Posted - 2014.07.11 09:20:00 - [608] - Quote 501st Headstrong wrote: Jadd Hatchen wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. The slowest Logis would still of course move faster than the fastest heavy, something like +0.05 on the Assault or -0.05 on the Logi. So if that's the biggest worry, we have no problem in only buffing the Assault speed. That's not what's causing the issue. The issue is that I cannot run with my repair tool locked onto my Heavy bro, so if he sprints, then is is faster and I loose lock on him around corners and then have a delay before I can relock onto him again. Learn when to run after your heavy, when to rep. Tell him to stop. Use the Six Kin Triage or Lai Dai Flux so that isn't a problem or maybe you need to learn to fit kin cats on your heavies :)
Skybladev2 LUX AETERNA INT RUST415 119	Posted - 2014.07.11 10:35:00 - [609] - Quote Any chance of mCRUs WP? <[^_^]>
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 333	Posted - 2014.07.11 10:48:00 - [610] - Quote Hmm, after some more thinking I am on the fence on the question about Logi sidearm. I can see both sides point, but there is a lot of talk about shifting bonuses around, which the OP states nothing about: CCP Rattati wrote: * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. ~~Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus~~. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. It could be nice to have some clarification if changing the current logi bonuses are on the table for Charlie? As far as I see it: Current Logi bonuses stays as is: Give Caldari a sidearm and remove the slots you think is necessary to keep it in line with its "passive" equipment. Keep Amarr as is. OR Change (distribute) the Logi bonuses: Each race have at least a "passive and "active" equipment bonus. Go right ahead and remove the sidearm and equalise the slot numbers, as proposed. If the goal is to make Logis do Logi stuff (only), the second option is the best, I agree. But it has to come together with modification to the current bonuses. Just my opinion,

ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 3097	Posted - 2014.07.11 10:50:00 - [611] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. {snip} So (for example): 8 modules + 4 equip + L + nade for Gallente/Minmatar and: 7 Modules + 3 equip + L/S + nade for Amarr/Caldari Okay this is WRONG! As now the FW for the Amarr/Caldari side would be the only side with the slayer capable logis and the Gal/Min side would suffer horribly for it in FW battles. IF you do this (and I highly recommend that you don't), then it needs to be the Minmatar and NOT the Caldari that receive the extra sidearm slot!!!! Would you really want to give up one of your equipment slots and a module slot on the min logi for a sidearm? I predict community outrage at that change. Min Logi, with its rep bonus is one of the most powerful logistics suits in the game. I suspect the numbers for Min Logi already greatly outnumber the other logi suits. Faction warfare? I see your point but FW is not limited to racial suits and should never be limited in that way. Even if it was, what you're describing is called asymmetric warfare and its not inherently bad when balanced correctly.
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 3097	Posted - 2014.07.11 11:03:00 - [612] - Quote I've been reading a lot of comments about cross racial bonuses. This isn't an inherently bad idea, but if we really want to do that, I think it would be best to go all out and make a type I and type II suit otherwise you're just falltening the diversity in all logi suits, and when that happens we revert back to early Uprising when logi suits did not have equipment based bonuses. The community finds the most combat capable suit and spams it ad naseum. I feel like that is a step back more than a step forward. If anything, I personally feel that unbonused prototype equipment is already quite powerful as it is and it is not necessary to have additional global bonuses to all of it. The singular bonus each race gets is truly its own distinction. If everyone else got half of the min bonus to rep tools, I honestly believe it would probably cause the min logi to become irrelevant, as higher EHP is attainable on other suits and half of the rep bonus is not enough to really make the min logi unique. An easy solution to the global bonus problem, which doesn't require the addition and testing of half measure racial bonuses is to buff the global logi fitting bonus to 15% per level. This would further reinforce that higher tier equipment is desirable and make the cost of upgrading from std to pro on any single piece of equipment relatively small. Of course another big issue with proto equipment is its isk cost, its fairly substantial to deck out a proto logi suit in proto modules and proto equipment. A reduction in the cost of adv and pro equipment would encourage the use of higher tier equipment on all logi suits, thus increasing the overall quality of equipment logis would bring to the field, without having to create potentially broken bonuses or risk making certain prototype equipment overpowered with the creation of additional bonuses. This cost reduction would probably need to be on the order of 33-50%, I would say a cost curve of 5k - 7k - 12k for std - adv - pro would be just about right, a full set of 4 proto equip should be approximately 50k, about the same as a basic prototype weapon. The increase to a global fitting bonus also requires a rebalance of CPU/PG on each suit as well. I think that its perfectly fine though, the logi suits need a module count and fitting rework in general anyways (hence what has sparked this discussion).
iKILLu osborne Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 60	Posted - 2014.07.11 11:14:00 - [613] - Quote jNs Vit4l wrote: 501st Headstrong wrote: Agreed. The bonus Rattati that you change shouldn't affect SP investment. If so just give us a full Respec already. Yes I brought it up I AGGREE!!!!!!! We speced into cal scouts for the precision not for a useless long range scans, if you ccp are going to CHANGE our bonus to a completetly other bonus then you have to give a respec for cal light frame / cal scout suits to whoever is speced into it so we can choose another role. if you seen my angry, ball's busted , comments on this thread and another you know i agree. again i say rattati you have done an incredible job but if you plan to change our role(never done before someone in the office hates caldari) we deserve a respec in that respective area here is a joke, so an amarr scout walks in lol after charlie it will be"oh shlt a amarr scout walked in"
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect Dark Taboo 1460	Posted - 2014.07.11 12:04:00 - [614] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Brush Master wrote: Would like more details on making logis all the same number of equipment slots. How many slots are you going to get? As someone that runs support logi almost all the time, for pub matches, 3 can get you by but for PC battles 4 allows you to be a full support logi with all areas you can support with. +1 on scaled wp for injector. I imagine it'll be 4 across the board. Fix the amarr logi's bonus to apply even after death!!!! please? So "good" uplinks can be left on the field, while you change to another logi? I think this is working as intended. Who suggested that? Can we not distinguish the 2? In competitive play you simply don't have the luxury of using the amarr because you WILL die, and then your logi investment was worthless aside from link spam perhaps. AT LEAST make it so that if you die and respawn as an amarr logi the links place on previous lives retain the bonus. Can you really justify making a class's bonus useless because you don't want people swapping out afterwards? Seems like a really weak argument. THIS! As Z says, you die in PC, especially as a logi, which lacks the HP/DPS of a heavy or stealth/passive scan of a scout. This makes Amarr useless because it's the ONLY logi that relies on dumping stuff to be used later... by which time you've died. Minmatar logi bonus, applies immediately. Gallente bonus, applies immediately. Even Caldari applies immediately in practice because you usually drop nanohives when you or a team mate need ammo or reps RIGHT NOW. There is effectively no bonus on the Amarr in competitive play. You're only getting the same uplink spawn times as any other logi, which get other bonuses on top of that. I stopped using my proto Amarr logi for link-laying (or anything else) because it does it worse than my Gal or Cal scouts. If you want Amarr logi to actually be worth using the bonus should apply so long as you're in any Amarr logi.
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect Dark Taboo 1461	Posted - 2014.07.11 12:21:00 - [615] - Quote Also, I'd sooner keep the Amarr logi sidearm, thanks. And how about some more PG while we're at it? At proto level with max skills you can only fit proto uplinks (what the suit is supposed to be for) by fitting advanced modules, advanced rifle, and basic sidearm and nades. Other suits do not have to make such severe compromises at proto.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3723	Posted - 2014.07.11 12:25:00 - [616] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: I've been reading a lot of comments about cross racial bonuses. This isn't an inherently bad idea, but if we really want to do that, I think it would be best to go all out and make a type I and type II suit otherwise you're just falltening the diversity in all logi suits, and when that happens we revert back to early Uprising when logi suits did not have equipment based bonuses. The community finds the most combat capable suit and spams it ad naseum. I feel like that is a step back more than a step forward. If anything, I personally feel that unbonused prototype equipment is already quite powerful as it is and it is not necessary to have additional global bonuses to all of it. The singular bonus each race gets is truly its own distinction. If everyone else got half of the min bonus to rep tools, I honestly believe it would probably cause the min logi to become irrelevant, as higher EHP is attainable on other suits and half of the rep bonus is not enough to really make the min logi unique. An easy solution to the global bonus problem, which doesn't require the addition and testing of half measure racial bonuses is to buff the global logi fitting bonus to 15% per level. This would further reinforce that higher tier equipment is desirable and make the cost of upgrading from std to pro on any single piece of equipment relatively small. Of course another big issue with proto equipment is its isk cost, its fairly substantial to deck out a proto logi suit in proto modules and proto equipment. A reduction in the cost of adv and pro equipment would encourage the use of higher tier equipment on all logi suits, thus increasing the overall quality of equipment logis would bring to the field, without having to create potentially broken bonuses or risk making certain prototype equipment overpowered with the creation of additional bonuses. This cost reduction would probably need to be on the order of 33-50%, I would say a cost curve of 5k - 7k - 12k for std - adv - pro would be just about right, a full set of 4 proto equip should be approximately 50k, about the same as a basic prototype weapon. The increase to a global fitting bonus also requires a rebalance of CPU/PG on each suit as well. I think that its perfectly fine though, the logi suits need a module count and fitting rework in general anyways (hence what has sparked this discussion). Excellent ideas. Back when all the fools were asking for sidearm only logis I had counter-proposed a similarly huge reduction with a proportionate reduction in the fitting power of the suit. It's so far back I'm having trouble finding a link, but I did at least so e of the math.. I'll have to look again later. @hatchen: I'm not sure what you are talking about, exactly, but neither of the biggest offenders in the uprising kill logi days had sidearms. (Those being gallente and Caldari) They were OP because of the massive tank they could fit while simultaneously having inherent 5hp/s armor reps and having the fitting power to not sacrifice anything else, like a proto weapon, core locus nades, and triage hives. Sidearms had nothing to do with it. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3504	Posted - 2014.07.11 12:29:00 - [617] - Quote Would the people please stop trying to give assaults a fitting bonus to armor/shield extenders please? This wont solve the issue that they cannot kill a heavy quickly before it turns on his HMG to drill you with plenty of holes. I say it again: give assaults a rate of fire buff to increase their DPS. Assaults should be highly focused on damage output and not tanking till you look like a heavy with a rail rifle. Any 1 remember the day when there was the "bugged" federation assault rifles that had a rate of fire set at 1000? thats what we would get on assaults with a 25% rate of fire bonus (5% per lvl). It would not be OP cause only assaults had access to that kind of firepower, no scouts and aswell no scrub heavys that would fit a AR. And how i get on that number is pretty easy: AR ROF= 800 +25%= 1000 And why is every 1 so affraid that the time to kill would possibly go down? Hell i would love it if i have a chance fighting a heavy and not just allways have to run away cause a heavy with a logi is a no go in allmost every encounter. I would rather fight a assault with a rate of fire buff then a damn heavy that gets repped.
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect Dark Taboo 1461	Posted - 2014.07.11 12:38:00 - [618] - Quote Having messed about on protofits I can confirm that the Amarr scout will be disgustingly OP if they just shift the current Caldari precision bonus to it. The Caldari presently does at least have the drawback of being quite hard to fit; the Amarr will basically be the same suit but with a near-infinite amount of fitting. I'd prefer that you left the bonuses as they are. But if you HAVE to move the precision bonus at least reduce it to 3% per level so it's in line with the Caldari and Gallente bonuses to range and dampening respectively.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 31	Posted - 2014.07.11 12:44:00 - [619] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Would the people please stop trying to give assaults a fitting bonus to armor/shield extenders please? This wont solve the issue that they cannot kill a heavy quickly before it turns on his HMG to drill you with plenty of holes. I say it again: give assaults a rate of fire buff to increase their DPS. Assaults should be highly focused on damage output and not tanking till you look like a heavy with a rail rifle. Any 1 remember the day when there was the "bugged" federation assault rifles that had a rate of fire set at 1000? thats what we would get on assaults with a 25% rate of fire bonus (5% per lvl). It would not be OP cause only assaults had access to that kind of firepower, no scouts and aswell no scrub heavys that would fit a AR. And how i get on that number is pretty easy: AR ROF= 800 +25%= 1000 And why is every 1 so affraid that the time to kill would possibly go down? Hell i would love it if i have a chance fighting a heavy and not just allways have to run away cause a heavy with a logi is a no go in allmost every encounter. I would rather fight a assault with a rate of fire buff then a damn heavy that gets repped. I don't want rof My rr runs out of ammo fast enough already...
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 101	Posted - 2014.07.11 13:08:00 - [620] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Would the people please stop trying to give assaults a fitting bonus to armor/shield extenders please? This wont solve the issue that they cannot kill a heavy quickly before it turns on his HMG to drill you with plenty of holes. I say it again: give assaults a rate of fire buff to increase their DPS. Assaults should be highly focused on damage output and not tanking till you look like a heavy with a rail rifle. Any 1 remember the day when there was the "bugged" federation assault rifles that had a rate of fire set at 1000? thats what we would get on assaults with a 25% rate of fire bonus (5% per lvl). It would not be OP cause only assaults had access to that kind of firepower, no scouts and aswell no scrub heavys that would fit a AR. And how i get on that number is pretty easy: AR ROF= 800 +25%= 1000 And why is every 1 so affraid that the time to kill would possibly go down? Hell i would love it if i have a chance fighting a heavy and not just allways have to run away cause a heavy with a logi is a no go in allmost every encounter. I would rather fight a assault with a rate of fire buff then a damn heavy that gets repped. I don't want rof My rr runs out of ammo fast enough already... I currently have 3 of the 4 assaults, and I like them and their bonus. I think they are unique and fun.

aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 101	Posted - 2014.07.11 13:12:00 - [621] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Would the people please stop trying to give assaults a fitting bonus to armor/shield extenders please? This wont solve the issue that they cannot kill a heavy quickly before it turns on his HMG to drill you with plenty of holes. I say it again: give assaults a rate of fire buff to increase their DPS. Assaults should be highly focused on damage output and not tanking till you look like a heavy with a rail rifle. Any 1 remember the day when there was the "bugged" federation assault rifles that had a rate of fire set at 1000? thats what we would get on assaults with a 25% rate of fire bonus (5% per lvl). It would not be OP cause only assaults had access to that kind of firepower, no scouts and aswell no scrub heavys that would fit a AR. And how i get on that number is pretty easy: AR ROF= 800 +25%= 1000 And why is every 1 so affraid that the time to kill would possibly go down? Hell i would love it if i have a chance fighting a heavy and not just allways have to run away cause a heavy with a logi is a no go in allmost every encounter. I would rather fight a assault with a rate of fire buff then a damn heavy that gets repped. Im not sure I want the assaults that powerful. I think they are almost in a good place vs every suit except heavys, and they may be getting nerfed.
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 834	Posted - 2014.07.11 13:18:00 - [622] - Quote Idea about Logi / Assault balance... Sorry for bad English =) >>> Legion rdy! <<<
Dj grammer Red Star. EoN. 279	Posted - 2014.07.11 13:42:00 - [623] - Quote John Psi wrote: Idea about Logi / Assault balance... No, my simple fix is to buff assaults if you are worried about logistics slayers. make assaults worth running. why ccp?
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 3097	Posted - 2014.07.11 14:39:00 - [624] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Excellent ideas. Back when all the fools were asking for sidearm only logis I had counter-proposed a similarly huge reduction with a proportionate reduction in the fitting power of the suit. It's so far back I'm having trouble finding a link, but I did at least so e of the math.. I'll have to look again later. @hatchen: I'm not sure what you are talking about, exactly, but neither of the biggest offenders in the uprising kill logi days had sidearms. (Those being gallente and Caldari) They were OP because of the massive tank they could fit while simultaneously having inherent 5hp/s armor reps and having the fitting power to not sacrifice anything else, like a proto weapon, core locus nades, and triage hives. Sidearms had nothing to do with it. All I meant with the spam ad nauseum post was that, if we flatten the bonus differential between suits, then the most popular logi suit just becomes the one with the most EHP and will be the spammed/fotm logi suit. It doesn't necessarily refer to logis themselves being fotm, but I think it was quite clear back in early uprising that the cal logi was probably used far more than any other logi suit because it could do the same tasks (logi wise) as most other logis but it could also fit a massive tank on top of it. The other bonuses couldn't compare to a cal logi with shield extender bonus, it was by far the most powerful in terms of non-logi tasks. Making all logis have 4 equipments and cross bonuses just flattens the playing field. Once again the most desired logi becomes the one that is most combat capable... which, with low move speed and no sidearm means the one with the most theoretical EHP. I would place my money on Gallente being the most desired logi if these changes some of the CPM1 candidates are pushing would go into place. You would find a small group of niche players that are okay with the slight bonus to rep tools min logis get, and shield users favoring caldari. Then a few Amarr only RP players using Amarr Logi... the rest would spam Gallente as it has the highest EHP and virtually the same logistics potential. This is the reason why I'm saying go one way or the other. Split us into 2/2 combat/pure logistics where two have 3 equip and a sidearm. Or split the logistics group entirely into Medic and Combat Logistics. Give all Medics the same bonus (rep tools and nanite injectors) and create a separate suit, the 'Combat Logistics' for deployable equipment (Nanohives and Uplinks). At that point, the scanner becomes neutral with no bonus, making it equally viable for scouts and logi suits. The scanner would likely require a buff to bring it back into parity. With a system like this, the racial differential is purely for flavor and that's it. i just don't think Logistics require THAT much change (Splitting it into separate suit types). But if we start 'normalizing' logistics suits we stand to ruin the fragile balance that has already been achieved as it is.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 667	Posted - 2014.07.11 14:51:00 - [625] - Quote CCP Frame wrote: I would like to remind everyone that: CCP Rattati wrote: This is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Please keep your feedback as constructive as possible, and we will listen. :) I'd like to cut down on the list of things to be changed. I think the amount of discussion has shown that it is very difficult to predict the results from changing assaults, logis, sentinels and scouts all at once. Just for good measure there even are blaster changes in the original post. Maybe some AV changes too? Basically I'd like to remind everyone that maybe we should focus on taking one step at a time. That has proven very effective before. If I were to choose the aspect of the role interactions that need fixing the most I'd say we need to look at why Scouts are so popular in the slaying department. Personally I always go to Scout suits when I want to shoot people in the face in pubs. Assaults are just worse at that. Once we identify which specific change would put Scouts back into their sneaky ways we can look at which other roles need improvement next. Let's focus on the most pressing issue first. [Edit] 666 likes. Don't like me. Don't you dare! ... Thank you Mr. Sole Fenychs. Very nice to learn your true personality. I hate you.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11373	Posted - 2014.07.11 14:57:00 - [626] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Me and Cat have suggested revisions to some of the current assault bonuses and have made our suggestions, are there any plans to do any assault bonus changes in Charlie or future hotfixes? if so, can you share any? I think that the addition of a slot to Amarr Assault, on top of their high PG/CPU has shown how effective a fitting buff can be. We will be looking better at efficacy bonuses in Delta. 1 A)I was concerned about the racial bonuses of the Caldari and Gallente assaults. Any plan to change those specific bonuses? 1 B) The Caldari assault reload bonus is pretty crappy considering the Caldari commando gets the same reload bonus in addition to a damage bonus. I have a Gallente assault level 5 alt account, and I find the Gallente assault bonus almost unnoticeable on my AR. 1 C) Both the Amarr and Minmatar assaults have good bonuses; allows them to keep shooting longer before stopping from overheat/magazine-depletion. I would suggest giving the Gallente and Caldari assault magazine size bonuses to their racial weapons. 2) I noticed earlier you mentioned you won't be giving assaults more slots, can you give us an approximate number of how much HP you would give assaults? 3 A) Would it be possible to make some bonuses not tied to skills? example, all assaults having a built-in 15% efficacy modifier to damage mods? I would love these sorts of built-in bonuses. 3 B) If possible, can you do it? 4) Are you still planning on the removal of the Amarr logi sidearm, and giving it more equipment in exchange? /me awaits answers Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 524	Posted - 2014.07.11 15:01:00 - [627] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: /me awaits answers Random thought: Caldari Assault could get a fire duration bonus by having lower RoF but higher damage per bullet. Probably not the best idea, but it would fit the spirit of "let's increase magazine size". It's a debuff for close-range encounters, though.
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 3099	Posted - 2014.07.11 15:15:00 - [628] - Quote Kick reduction for Caldari Assault would do wonders for that class imo. The ARR kicks like a fiend, the MSMG does too. If the standard RR is still too powerful as a weapon in general, a slight kick increase could help balance it while making the cal assault even more viable. The Amarr is still one of the few suits with a desirable benefit, and I think it should stay that way. The Min Assault has a solid bonus for the CR, I've not heard much complaints and as someone who has used the CR I feel that would remain a desirable bonus. Now... the assault rifle... as a long long time user of the assault rifle, you know which weapon is probably the most fun I have ever had the pleasure of using in Dust? The Balac's AR... omg what a downright amazing weapon. A RoF bonus to the Gallente Assault could make that just right. RoF is king of CQC, and the AR would be much better at CQC with it. The concern here of course is that it could make the suit overpowered, as RoF is a DPS increase.... hm... Its a bit complex but increasing RoF on the AR while increasing Clip/Ammo Capacity and Deceasing damage so that DPS remains close to the same is a possibility for making the Gal Assault unique and not making it overpowered. Another possibility would be to make a new Plasma Rifle variant (I know... confusing) with the same kind of stats as a Balac's... give it insanely high PG/CPU like the Cloak and give Gal Assault a specific fitting bonus for it. I do think the weapon fitting reduction assault bonus is a tad bit underwhelming myself, a straight increase to PG and CPU makes more sense, freeing up the Assault bonus to be something more interesting.
XxVEXESxX Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 17	Posted - 2014.07.11 15:52:00 - [629] - Quote Assault buff: We want them strong but not too strong. There was a day when medium suits dominated and we need not revert to those old days. Maybe the Clip increase could be applied to all assaults. Add .5 efficiency to damage mods per level on Minmatar to give them a new bonuse and use it supplement for their lower ehp but equal dps when compared to other assaults. Keep bonuses on rest the other assaults the same along with the ehp buff proposed for charlie. Commando: In a great place. Good dps. Great utility. Strong when applied with support. Reload time is great. Good job CCP. Heavy: My bane but Is in the perfect place. Perfect dps to keep everything in balance. Great ehp to remain viable against assaults and commandos. Over heat will tone down their mobility. No need to touch turn speed or anything else. Another great job. Logi: First im very happy that runspeed is no longer proposed. Right now I think logies fit right in the pocket and require a good balance in their fit to put themselves at the speed range of other suit playstyles. As far as the equipment change I didnt see that coming. The sidearm on the Amarr was an obvious change but if we make viable assault changes I cant see why the amarr logi cant be that blur in fittings that CCP Rouge has mentioned. It will make a support assault that in theory should have less ehp/runspeed/dps/pg/cpu forcing electronic modules and rely heavily on playstyle and fitting to work. Id support the cal logi getting the eqipment making it a long range logistics with the amarr being odd man out with 3. Sidenote: Oh the poor logi. I have to say I do miss the 5 repair from before. I wasnt a slayer logi but it help a great deal to support by allowing a great balance between ehp/rps. Since the change I have not been able to achieve a decent feel of survivability to repairs per second on my suit. Ive forgone ehp for speed/repair /ewar and now under most if not all circumstance I am the first to die while supporting from any large splash effect weapons like granades. Logis need some sort of sustainable ability if they are going to be viable going forward. With ehp going up on many of the suits since the loss of the repairs I fear I will not live long enough under front line support conditions due to the inability to self sustain while supporting. Please dont mistake me asking for anything offensive but like they say a great defense is a good offense and balance to assaults could allow a look back at logis defensive dept. I hope with the buff to reactives this will alleviate this issue but CCP if you can please keep an eye out for this moving forward. Scouts: Ewar distribution like Minmatar master of none but speed, caldari range, gal damps and amarr precision. Hit box fix removing false hit markers. Perfection. "Diversity in thought through constructive thinking."
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD 189	Posted - 2014.07.11 16:12:00 - [630] - Quote [quote=CCP Rattati]All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. There is a god! * A slight HMG heat buildup increase I can see that! * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. I can see that! * Installation buff, with a range and AI range reduction, reduction of granted WP for destruction. Thank you! * Blaster turret accuracy improvements, both Small and Large It's fine!!!! The whole tank problem in 1.7 was the overuse of blaster tanks with far to much range and accuracy!!! They shouldn't be sniping infantry from 100 meters with it!!! It should be fiercely accurate on tanks, but inaccurate on troops! They can make up for the inaccuracy with the amount of rounds they have, and armor on the tank...... kinda like the crappy gallente weapons huh?! * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. I'm lost on the whole scout discussion?! I just now they eat ammo, are too fast, and don't seem to die all while killing heavy at will from 10 meters away?! They don't need cloaks since they have profile dampening, precision enhancement, and range amplification, but that's just me?! The cloak is a crutch and gimmick that basically makes it easier for them to get around, but if they are good scouts they would be good at it without the cloak! My opinion. Still say they should only carry scout weapons ( sidearms, sniper rifles, shotguns, etc.) Why do they need all these buffs and bonuses, and the light weapons as well? There is no down side to being a scout currently?! They have two equipment slots, as much armor/shield potential as assault, all weapons available, and they are invisible for crying out loud?! * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. OK I can see that! * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement Shotgun hit detection is still here and there?! Maybe take a second look at that too? No pressure. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP Pass time for this as it will increase risk/reward, and force squad members to work together! * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s Could this be a possible mini buff for the gallente assault?!!! Wow! There is a god! * OB WP doubled I welcome the challenge! It will encourage better squad performance! * LP payout increased x-fold NICE! * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS FINALLY! Overall good news! I only ask that the favoratism stops. "Anybody order chaos?"

Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD 189	Posted - 2014.07.11 16:37:00 - [631] - Quote Ion Pistol needs a looking over?! Felt like it was thrown together?! Seems fiercely inaccurate to me?! Thanks "Anybody order chaos?"
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD 189	Posted - 2014.07.11 16:59:00 - [632] - Quote Smart deploy.... isn't all that smart?! I'm sure directly in front of the firing heavy isn't considered smart.... just saying?! "Anybody order chaos?"
Thumb Green The Valyrian Guard 1103	Posted - 2014.07.11 17:50:00 - [633] - Quote * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS Well you can't remove the one ambush mode that occasionally lasts longer than 5 minutes unless you're going to make changes to the regular mode, specifically increasing clone count. The only reason I am even willing to play ambush is the hope that we'll get a match that lasts longer than 5 minutes; hell most of the time you play ambush you spend more time finding a match & waiting in loading screens than you do actually playing a match. Personally I think OMS should stay and I don't give a damn about whether or not vehicles are in it. What should be done is increase the clone count in both modes, at least to having 100 or more clones. When I sit down to play the game I want to play the game, not sit around waiting on finding a match and on loading screens. Can't say I'm all that surprised. I've been drinking and may be drunk.... probably like most dust players.
Hobo on Fire Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 294	Posted - 2014.07.11 17:50:00 - [634] - Quote Aran Abbas wrote: Hi Rattati, If I fit 4 militia drop uplinks, I can only have one uplink active at a time, right? Should I not be able to have 4 active uplinks at the same time since I'm expending 4 slots? Maybe something to consider as part of the Amarr bonus, or all round? Its never worked like that. The "Max Deployed" number for a piece of equipment is exactly that, you can only have that many of that particular item deployed, regardless of how many you are carrying. Hit me up in game or on SA/IRC if you want coaching in how to properly spam equipment.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 524	Posted - 2014.07.11 18:15:00 - [635] - Quote Hobo on Fire wrote: Aran Abbas wrote: Hi Rattati, If I fit 4 militia drop uplinks, I can only have one uplink active at a time, right? Should I not be able to have 4 active uplinks at the same time since I'm expending 4 slots? Maybe something to consider as part of the Amarr bonus, or all round? Its never worked like that. The "Max Deployed" number for a piece of equipment is exactly that, you can only have that many of that particular item deployed, regardless of how many you are carrying. Hit me up in game or on SA/IRC if you want coaching in how to properly spam equipment. Would restocking equipment in a supply depot in any way aid spamming equipment, considering that there's a hard limit per type and changing suits restocks anyway? Because it's quite obnoxious to have no direct restocking at a supply depot, when your fitting is a Commando with a compact nanohive.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 418	Posted - 2014.07.11 19:00:00 - [636] - Quote I want useful, combat oriented, and unique bonuses for assaults. Fitting bonuses are dumb when every other suit class can fit your fitting without the bonus and still have CPU/pg left. That's not going to get anyone to play assault. We need game changing bonuses for assaults.
CRNWLLC Gangsta Gank 361	Posted - 2014.07.11 19:00:00 - [637] - Quote For the most part these look like some pretty legit changes. My reservation is Ambush OMS + vehicles: please don't remove AOMS or vehicles therein! It's nice to have a slightly longer deathmatch version + vehicles, it adds variety. And while I understand and mostly agree with the impetus behind removing vehicles from standard Ambush matches, I have been in numerous Ambush matches where a tank or two on the losing side could have gone a long way toward preventing a stomp.
Scheneighnay McBob Cult of Gasai 5630	Posted - 2014.07.11 19:01:00 - [638] - Quote I think you should keep vehicles in OMS, and see how they work with the turret buff. pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
Nirwanda Vaughns 426th Infantry 641	Posted - 2014.07.11 19:32:00 - [639] - Quote With removal of Ambush OMS i would suggest making default Ambush 70 clones instead. i admit removal of Vehicles and the reduced amoutn of warbarge strikes by doubling the WP requirements will ensure ambush games last longer but a balance between ambush/OMS clone count to make it last a fair amount of time. many times i've seen ambush over n done with after 5mins. ISK payout on Dom/Skirms also need increasing to make the extra time in games worth while. plenty of times i can get more isk in an ambush or at least equal to a domi match with less suits lost and in quicker time Rolling with the punches
Jammer JAMS Dox You. Proficiency V. 33	Posted - 2014.07.11 19:35:00 - [640] - Quote What about the broken tanks now you messed them right up. What is the point of skills into them if they skill do nothing. All you had to do was bring down damage a little now there junk. Rail is supposed to be long range. Blaster short range. Now you can't hit anything with either. You buffed forge guns and Swarms then reduced tank repairs when you spend 500,000 on a tank or more it should last. There should be passive and active buffs to tank and all vehicle modules. I have been playing this game since closed beta and I have seen tanks and every suit go yoyo up and down like a dirty shirt and I am getting tired of this. Do you ever test this stuff before deployment. Why do you listen to some person whine and change everything for them make this game the way it should be. Each suit vehicle and there types should have strengths and weakness but can be only used for that purpose.

Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3217	Posted - 2014.07.11 19:59:00 - [641] - Quote Why move the precision bonus to amarr? I mean, what does that accomplish? Not to mention, an amarr scout can use precisions and still keep their tank. There should be a tradeoff. If you're going to give it to someone, give it to a suit where most of their tank is on the high slot side..like the minmatar. Removed all hope with this post
Dustbunny Durrr ReD or DeaD 240	Posted - 2014.07.11 20:57:00 - [642] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Why move the precision bonus to amarr? I mean, what does that accomplish? Not to mention, an amarr scout can use precisions and still keep their tank. There should be a tradeoff. If you're going to give it to someone, give it to a suit where most of their tank is on the high slot side..like the minmatar. The amarr scout needs scanning range to make their bonus really worthwhile (otherwise its just 15M, which will detect nova knifers and shotgunners, and thats about it). And correct me if they've changed this, but unless they have, those are low slots, which will take away from the Alogi tank. Thoughts?
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 166	Posted - 2014.07.11 21:03:00 - [643] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Why move the precision bonus to amarr? I mean, what does that accomplish? Not to mention, an amarr scout can use precisions and still keep their tank. There should be a tradeoff. If you're going to give it to someone, give it to a suit where most of their tank is on the high slot side..like the minmatar. Because precision and range on Cal scouts was too strong. Amarr scouts had a terrible bonus. Precision is good on Amarr because they can only fit 2 precision enhancers preventing their scans from being OP. Whilst they can fit armor with their precision mods they will be more effective capitalising on their scanning advantage by fitting range amps. Not to mention the ever important profile dampeners and kincats. Range on Cal scouts is still a powerful bonus. It is true that they will probably be stacking shields but with all those highs they do have the option of precise scans if they are willing to commit lots of slots. I suspect some may take the bonus change badly since many will feel their role is changing from scout hunter to scanner which was not why they originally skilled into it. As I said before though, with 4 highs they can get quite good precision. These changes also help Minmatar scouts who were marginalised in competitive environments by the OP Cal scans. Hp stacking scouts is likely to always be a thing amongst some players. The main reason this is a problem is because assaults are poor in comparison. Hopefully the charlie assault changes will fix this and many "slayers" will migrate. The important thing to remember is that this is a minor nerf to Cal scouts, who are currently the main culprit of FOTM slayer assault-scouts (after Gal scouts got a significant nerf in alpha). It is also a very small nerf to Gal scouts and a buff to Amarr scouts, who everybody agreed were poor in comparison to the others. However the Amarr scout bonus will not be as strong as the current Cal scout bonus and nowhere near as powerful as the pre-alpha Gal scout bonus.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3222	Posted - 2014.07.11 21:09:00 - [644] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Why move the precision bonus to amarr? I mean, what does that accomplish? Not to mention, an amarr scout can use precisions and still keep their tank. There should be a tradeoff. If you're going to give it to someone, give it to a suit where most of their tank is on the high slot side..like the minmatar. Because precision and range on Cal scouts was too strong. Amarr scouts had a terrible bonus. Precision is good on Amarr because they can only fit 2 precision enhancers preventing their scans from being OP. Whilst they can fit armor with their precision mods they will be more effective capitalising on their scanning advantage by fitting range amps. Not to mention the ever important profile dampeners and kincats. Range on Cal scouts is still a powerful bonus. It is true that they will probably be stacking shields but with all those highs they do have the option of precise scans if they are willing to commit lots of slots. I suspect some may take the bonus change badly since many will feel their role is changing from scout hunter to scanner which was not why they originally skilled into it. As I said before though, with 4 highs they can get quite good precision. These changes also help Minmatar scouts who were marginalised in competitive environments by the OP Cal scans. Hp stacking scouts is likely to always be a thing amongst some players. The main reason this is a problem is because assaults are poor in comparison. Hopefully the charlie assault changes will fix this and many "slayers" will migrate. The important thing to remember is that this is a minor nerf to Cal scouts, who are currently the main culprit of FOTM slayer assault-scouts (after Gal scouts got a significant nerf in alpha). It is also a very small nerf to Gal scouts and a buff to Amarr scouts, who everybody agreed were poor in comparison to the others. However the Amarr scout bonus will not be as strong as the current Cal scout bonus and nowhere near as powerful as the pre-alpha Gal scout bonus. You guys make it seem like the suits actually do the shooting lol. Why wouldn't the amarr suit be as strong as the cal scout suit after this bonus? Also...the precision on amarr is horribad because you shouldnt' be able to use modules to enhance your bonus without giving up something. On Caldari, it's ideal because most of our tank comes from shields. So, it slows cal scouts from using enhancers because it makes the suit gimpy. An amarr gets most of its tank from low slots so they can stack double enhancers (which will be more than enough) and still have most of their health. I remember the benefit from using a min logi suit before because you could stack damage mods and still stack armor to give you over 700hp of health. You shouldn't be able to do that...it should be a give and a take. Removed all hope with this post
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 331	Posted - 2014.07.11 21:23:00 - [645] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: bogeyman m wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: bogeyman m wrote: Jack McReady wrote: as long as I can use my minmatar logi for babysitting just like it do it now I dont care, my proto logi fit is: 4 proto shield extenders 3 basic ferroscale plates 1 proto armor repairer proto smg proto nade proro repair tool proto nanite injector proto nanohive proto gauged drop uplink decent mix of durability and speed to follow my teammates around the map. full rack of proto equipment to babysit my teammembers along with an SMG and nades for self defense. you already ruined my fast hacking minmatar logi and I will finally quit if you ruin this fit too. Just curious... Why a proto SMG rather than an Advanced 'longer ranged' rifle? cause he is repping meaning the person who killed his squad mate is already almost dead and smg rips through armor So does an ACR, and it's easier to fit. he probably don't want to skill into a fotm that will most likely suffer another nerf and it cost more(i believe) That's why I was asking (can't check a the moment)... I would have thought a proto SMG would cost more than an advanced ACR. Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel. Cross Atu for CPM1
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 166	Posted - 2014.07.11 21:45:00 - [646] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You guys make it seem like the suits actually do the shooting lol. Why wouldn't the amarr suit be as strong as the cal scout suit after this bonus? Also...the precision on amarr is horribad because you shouldnt' be able to use modules to enhance your bonus without giving up something. On Caldari, it's ideal because most of our tank comes from shields. So, it slows cal scouts from using enhancers because it makes the suit gimpy. An amarr gets most of its tank from low slots so they can stack double enhancers (which will be more than enough) and still have most of their health. I remember the benefit from using a min logi suit before because you could stack damage mods and still stack armor to give you over 700hp of health. You shouldn't be able to do that...it should be a give and a take. Well, the Amarr scout could fit all armor in lows but the point is that won't be as effective as fitting range amp or kincat or damps (or any combination). Even if they fit all armor mods, with two precision mods they will only have fitted 4 out of 6 slots with hp/reps which isn't going to be all that heavily tanked, not if you compare it to mediums with 7 hp mods, or even other scouts with all 6 hp mods. It's not unreasonable to expect scouts to fit some hp. Another thing, how is an Amarr scout supposed to make use of their precision if they have all armor in lows. They only have a 30m scan range at max skills. Not enough speed to easily flank and get behind close to enemies. No damps means they will probably be scanned, making it easy for enemy scouts to avoid them, even if they did scan enemy scouts the advantage would be lost if the enemy scout also sees them on Tac-net. No range amps limits the scan radius significantly, making it predominantly useful for self defense but not much use defending your squad from low profile attacks. They could run around shooting people across the map with a rifle, but after charlie you would be better off doing this with an assault. Arguably you'd be better off doing this with a current assault.
Michael Epic The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 287	Posted - 2014.07.11 21:45:00 - [647] - Quote The only problem I see with your list is the WP for getting an Orbital Bombardment. The matches just don't last long enough...I feel like the Ambush matches clone amount should be doubled. Its much better since the removal of vehicles...that was long overdue and all of you CCP types are #bosses for doing that finally! But the matches don't last long enough...currently, at 5,000wp an orbital for a squad of two guys...unrealistic. Three guys? Unlikely. Four guys? Struggling and 5 guys? Only if all the cards fall right and they're spamming the hell out of equipment. I don't know what would be a fair for the WP requirement. I think 2500 is too low and 5000 is too high. Maybe like...4,000? But for 2 guys on a squad? Who knows. Extend the pace of the matches by 5 minutes and that might work...idk, but otherwise EPIC list guys applause
J0hlss0n Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 166	Posted - 2014.07.11 21:55:00 - [648] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Well, as of now, a Min Sentinel built for speed, which is the Min way of doing things, are pretty maxed on PG, so I hope the PG cost will be lowered for the Kincats... I dont want to loose my speedy Min Heavy. =/
trollface dot jpg The Bacon Corporation 203	Posted - 2014.07.11 22:15:00 - [649] - Quote Maybe..... give assaults a bonus to their tank modules? Caldari - 3% increase in shield extender and recharger/energizer efficacy, 5% reduction to extender delay penalties.... etc. RIP MAG, you will be missed. MAG Vet ~ Raven
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 33	Posted - 2014.07.11 22:26:00 - [650] - Quote Michael Epic wrote: The only problem I see with your list is the WP for getting an Orbital Bombardment. The matches just don't last long enough...I feel like the Ambush matches clone amount should be doubled. http://i.imgur.com/fx1976x.jpg You said the magic word.

CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1299	Posted - 2014.07.11 22:44:00 - [651] - Quote J0hlss0n wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Well, as of now, a Min Sentinel built for speed, which is the Min way of doing things, are pretty maxed on PG, so I hope the PG cost will be lowered for the Kincats... I dont want to loose my speedy Min Heavy. =/ We need to make sure CCP doesn't kill the ability to custom fit sentinels. Min speed heavies, Caldari full shield tank heavies etc.. There are many fringe fits that I worry we might lose the ability to create if CCP are not careful with how they handle any possible PG/CPU nerfs. -=#[ Gastun's Forge ]#=- MY LIFE FOR AIUR! "I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!
Hobo on Fire Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 294	Posted - 2014.07.11 23:04:00 - [652] - Quote Sole Fenychs wrote: Hobo on Fire wrote: Aran Abbas wrote: Hi Rattati, If I fit 4 militia drop uplinks, I can only have one uplink active at a time, right? Should I not be able to have 4 active uplinks at the same time since I'm expending 4 slots? Maybe something to consider as part of the Amarr bonus, or all round? Its never worked like that. The "Max Deployed" number for a piece of equipment is exactly that, you can only have that many of that particular item deployed, regardless of how many you are carrying. Hit me up in game or on SA/IRC if you want coaching in how to properly spam equipment. Would restocking equipment in a supply depot in any way aid spamming equipment, considering that there's a hard limit per type and changing suits restocks anyway? Because it's quite obnoxious to have no direct restocking at a supply depot, when your fitting is a Commando with a compact nanohive. With the limit in place, I don't think it would be a problem. We can restock mines from supply depots (and even nanohives) so obviously it's within CCPs ability to restock equipment without directly accessing the depot. I'm not sure if accessing the depot breaks the "connection" between suits and hives/uplinks for Amarr and Caldari Logis... if it does, players should absolutely be able to restock deployable equipment just by approaching the depot. If not, I don't see it as a huge priority, though it would be nice from a convenience standpoint. Of course, I don't know how it works on the back end. Restocking from nanohives and restocking from depots might not be two separate things... we wouldn't want a situation where players could use nanohives to restock their nanohives in an infinite loop.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6253	Posted - 2014.07.11 23:07:00 - [653] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: I've been reading a lot of comments about cross racial bonuses. This isn't an inherently bad idea, but if we really want to do that, I think it would be best to go all out and make a type I and type II suit otherwise you're just falltening the diversity in all logi suits, and when that happens we revert back to early Uprising when logi suits did not have equipment based bonuses. The community finds the most combat capable suit and spams it ad naseum. I feel like that is a step back more than a step forward. I don't think it's absolutely necessary that Logistics need that much diversity. It's a role and each race has it's specialization, some are better than others. Sure, flat-lining them does sound bad at first but overall it's what we've done with everything else (all Sentinels have a defensive bonus toward different intended weapon types, as an example) and I don't feel that Logistics deserve some kind of special treatment. Logistics are a support class, their entire role centralizes around supporting their team, so the inevitable question that I have toward all of this hoopla about the sidearms is: Why is the sidearm essential to the Logistics' role? I don't feel that saying that you have nothing to do when you're done dropping your nanohives/drop-uplinks is a good excuse to have an additional offensive option. All that tells me is that you're either doing a really good job of supporting your team or are doing a poor job of supporting your team because you don't want to use the options available for your intended role. The entire premise of having combat capable Logi's just defies logic to me. I don't understand why it is so imperative that Logistics must be combat effective in order to be a viable choice on the battlefield when you can take the time to walk over to a supply depot and change out. I've asked this question to players on Skype and the answer was that "It takes too long"... Using that logic, why should I have to go to a supply depot to grab an AV fit when a tank enters the field and the battle circumstances change? And sure, you can argue that if we give cross racial bonuses (although I never insinuated that all Logistics would get bonuses to all equipment) to the Logistics, players will naturally align to whichever one has the most EHP, but that's usually been the case with every suit and it's not isolated to just the Logistics. Cross racial bonuses benefit more toward a support role, which is what the Logistics is designed towards. That has no effect on how they balance out in the end and it's a largely separate issue. Different suits will be better at different things; some more than others. As far as the sidearms and having two combat logistics? I hate the idea solely because I know for a fact that it's probably going to be used in the exact manner that you're using as an argument against cross racial bonuses. Players will align naturally to the most combat effective suit there is and tossing a sidearm arbitrarily on two of the Logistics because players have nothing else to do when they're done supporting their team seems like it's doing just that. The only way I see that it could work is if those two 'combat Logis' sacrificed something in order to gain those sidearms and I don't think a single equipment slot on the Cal Logi is enough. It comes off as wanting the Logistics to be good at everything. The only reason it ever worked on the Amarr Logistics is because it's slower than the rest of the Logistics on top of having one less equipment slot. But again, I don't see how this benefits their chosen role in any way. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10833	Posted - 2014.07.11 23:34:00 - [654] - Quote J0hlss0n wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Well, as of now, a Min Sentinel built for speed, which is the Min way of doing things, are pretty maxed on PG, so I hope the PG cost will be lowered for the Kincats... I dont want to loose my speedy Min Heavy. =/ Down with speed sentinels! If it's even 1m/s away from Assault speeds, it's too much Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10833	Posted - 2014.07.11 23:37:00 - [655] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: ZDub 303 wrote: I've been reading a lot of comments about cross racial bonuses. This isn't an inherently bad idea, but if we really want to do that, I think it would be best to go all out and make a type I and type II suit otherwise you're just falltening the diversity in all logi suits, and when that happens we revert back to early Uprising when logi suits did not have equipment based bonuses. The community finds the most combat capable suit and spams it ad naseum. I feel like that is a step back more than a step forward. I don't think it's absolutely necessary that Logistics need that much diversity. It's a role and each race has it's specialization, some are better than others. Sure, flat-lining them does sound bad at first but overall it's what we've done with everything else (all Sentinels have a defensive bonus toward different intended weapon types, as an example) and I don't feel that Logistics deserve some kind of special treatment. Logistics are a support class, their entire role centralizes around supporting their team, so the inevitable question that I have toward all of this hoopla about the sidearms is: Why is the sidearm essential to the Logistics' role? I don't feel that saying that you have nothing to do when you're done dropping your nanohives/drop-uplinks is a good excuse to have an additional offensive option. All that tells me is that you're either doing a really good job of supporting your team or are doing a poor job of supporting your team because you don't want to use the options available for your intended role. The entire premise of having combat capable Logi's just defies logic to me. I don't understand why it is so imperative that Logistics must be combat effective in order to be a viable choice on the battlefield when you can take the time to walk over to a supply depot and change out. I've asked this question to players on Skype and the answer was that "It takes too long"... Using that logic, why should I have to go to a supply depot to grab an AV fit when a tank enters the field and the battle circumstances change? And sure, you can argue that if we give cross racial bonuses (although I never insinuated that all Logistics would get bonuses to all equipment) to the Logistics, players will naturally align to whichever one has the most EHP, but that's usually been the case with every suit and it's not isolated to just the Logistics. Cross racial bonuses benefit more toward a support role, which is what the Logistics is designed towards. That has no effect on how they balance out in the end and it's a largely separate issue. Different suits will be better at different things; some more than others. As far as the sidearms and having two combat logistics? I hate the idea solely because I know for a fact that it's probably going to be used in the exact manner that you're using as an argument against cross racial bonuses. Players will align naturally to the most combat effective suit there is and tossing a sidearm arbitrarily on two of the Logistics because players have nothing else to do when they're done supporting their team seems like it's doing just that. The only way I see that it could work is if those two 'combat Logis' sacrificed something in order to gain those sidearms and I don't think a single equipment slot on the Cal Logi is enough. It comes off as wanting the Logistics to be good at everything. The only reason it ever worked on the Amarr Logistics is because it's slower than the rest of the Logistics on top of having one less equipment slot. But again, I don't see how this benefits their chosen role in any way. Amarr also don't have an extra slot from Assaults. It's 3/4 on both, the Amarr is the only Logi with 7 slots. Caldari has 9. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10837	Posted - 2014.07.11 23:43:00 - [656] - Quote Just before you give Assaults bonuses, think of this: Have much of a difference do Sentinel bonuses make? How much of a difference do Logistics bonuses make? How much of a difference do Scout bonuses make? How much of a difference do Commando bonuses make? If you answered with all of those "A lot", congratulations! Now you see why I'm annoyed when people think that a 25% reduction to hip fire and recoil to my AR, which has no issues with that what so ever, is a good bonus? Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Doc DDD TeamPlayers 201	Posted - 2014.07.11 23:46:00 - [657] - Quote Base stats of amar suit are higher. Tradeoff.
Centurion molokov Comander's Capital 3	Posted - 2014.07.12 00:03:00 - [658] - Quote Can you make SP just a LITTLE bit easier and faster to get? Its pretty bad for me as i don't grind much for skill points but have 1 million sp waiting to be transfered
Doc DDD TeamPlayers 201	Posted - 2014.07.12 00:04:00 - [659] - Quote Min logi has 12 slots gal logi has 12 slots Cal logi has 12 slots amar logi has 10 slots plus sidearm plus higher base stats.
Iron Toast Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 2	Posted - 2014.07.12 00:10:00 - [660] - Quote Riptalis wrote: Need fix for vehicle collision damage! I'd rather see this than the ISK reduction for ADS. Possibly add a cheaper training' ADS that had the same flight characteristics as the ADS, but no turrets and maybe even no extra seats. I'm a new ADS pilot and collisions are by far my biggest death cause. I can usually escape AV, but crashes trying to learn maneuvers are expensive and the ADS handling is sufficiently different from the other DS I have to practice using it.

Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10839	Posted - 2014.07.12 00:29:00 - [661] - Quote Kalante Schiffer wrote: Giving assaults an hp buff wont help the assaults at all to what they are suppose to do which is to push, the scout already does that job even better than an assault which doesn't even makes any sense. The assault need bonuses that are rate of fire or damage to help them assault. Giving assaults 50 or 100 more hp will not help against those heavies who basically are like shooting a wall with three logis repping them. Extra HP will help immensly. My Commando feels fantastic to push with. Combined with a smaller frame and faster speed, it makes that extra that much more powerful. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
m621 zma Seraphim Initiative.. 168	Posted - 2014.07.12 00:33:00 - [662] - Quote Increasing WP for OB's - ambush is just going to turn into one huge equipment spam fest with 2 teams each fighting in a pool of nanohives - can you not just remove OB's from ambush?
Kalante Schiffer Ancient Exiles. 650	Posted - 2014.07.12 00:56:00 - [663] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Kalante Schiffer wrote: Giving assaults an hp buff wont help the assaults at all to what they are suppose to do which is to push, the scout already does that job even better than an assault which doesn't even makes any sense. The assault need bonuses that are rate of fire or damage to help them assault. Giving assaults 50 or 100 more hp will not help against those heavies who basically are like shooting a wall with three logis repping them. Extra HP will help immensly. My Commando feels fantastic to push with. Combined with a smaller frame and faster speed, it makes that extra that much more powerful. In PC if a scout hits you once that HP buff wont mean anything and by the second hit unless you have good strafe skills you will die. Right now assaults usually die at one to three maximum hits by the second hit you are basically toast because the assault do not have enough damage to fight back unless the shot gunner was really bad which is not the case because everyone in PC knows what they are doing. I could out strafe a scout three times and i would barely kill him or i die because i already got hit one time. The heavies are another problem i just dont see an HP buff really helping push those heavies in PC when they are the best heavies in the game getting repped by the best logies in the game.
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 1053	Posted - 2014.07.12 01:51:00 - [664] - Quote So much for my Amarr logi demo build. The side arm made it possible to get RE's/Proxies along with a PLC to finish em off. Your game f'ing sucks, but I'll still play it, damn you! Turns out I wont.
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 102	Posted - 2014.07.12 02:01:00 - [665] - Quote Iron Toast wrote: Riptalis wrote: Need fix for vehicle collision damage! I'd rather see this than the ISK reduction for ADS. Possibly add a cheaper training' ADS that had the same flight characteristics as the ADS, but no turrets and maybe even no extra seats. I'm a new ADS pilot and collisions are by far my biggest death cause. I can usually escape AV, but crashes trying to learn maneuvers are expensive and the ADS handling is sufficiently different from the other DS I have to practice using it. Its called militia, already exists, very cheap.
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 102	Posted - 2014.07.12 02:04:00 - [666] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: Min logi has 12 slots gal logi has 12 slots Cal logi has 12 slots amar logi has 10 slots plus sidearm plus higher base stats. Ive always like the way logis were. 5,4,3 : 3,5,4 : 4,4,4 : and the amarr :) Goijg to hate to see the diversity in these slot loadouts gone. I know of they do it to logis they will eventually do it to the rest of us.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1143	Posted - 2014.07.12 02:19:00 - [667] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: . . Logistics are a support class, their entire role centralizes around supporting their team, so the inevitable question that I have toward all of this hoopla about the sidearms is: Why is the sidearm essential to the Logistics' role? . . Why would a supportive suit want to have a secondary weapon? IN ORDER TO BRING A SUPPORTIVE LIGHT ARM FOR THE TEAM For Grudds sake. Fourth time I have to emphasize this. Supportive weapon like laser, mass driver, swarm launcher or something of the sort. Yea yea with laser you can go 30/0 in an ambush yadi yaddi. Still any one of those weps is a lolfit without a sidearm, no matter how murderous they are in optimal conditions. :-S
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1143	Posted - 2014.07.12 02:22:00 - [668] - Quote Centurion molokov wrote: Can you make SP just a LITTLE bit easier and faster to get? Its pretty bad for me as i don't grind much for skill points but have 1 million sp waiting to be transfered Play just a little bit more, okay? The game is nice to play and thru playing you can get more nice things to play with. :-S
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1098	Posted - 2014.07.12 02:29:00 - [669] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. * Installation buff, with a range and AI range reduction, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements, both Small and Large * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement * Reduced small rail range compared to sniper range * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. ~~Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus~~. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS * Reduced ADS ISK price Still under tech evaluation * Disabling passive Scan sharing with squads * Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Unfair fall damage calculation Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug Hotfix Delta or later Sidearm rebalance Sniper Rifle review Efficacy bonuses Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity -keep ambush oms but remove vehicles. instalations and such provide either teams with benifits. -dont change the logi's slot layouts because im pretty sure all logi's would go against that -how much will the ADS cost and can you do something about the python collision dmg being too high? -are missiles in the redline going to be no longer a threat to be from 300+ meters away from them? - can you bring back intel kills with the team if you bring back team scans only if were not in a squad? -does this mean we will not take unexpected fall damage even though we turned on inertia damps. also can dropships and HAV's have their own separate Mod.s like hardeners, and... well yeah just hardeners? NOLifing Dust for the Officer Combat rifle Vherokior assassin I fight for the Republic and my life is for the Elders
XxVEXESxX Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 20	Posted - 2014.07.12 02:47:00 - [670] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You guys make it seem like the suits actually do the shooting lol. Why wouldn't the amarr suit be as strong as the cal scout suit after this bonus? Also...the precision on amarr is horribad because you shouldnt' be able to use modules to enhance your bonus without giving up something. On Caldari, it's ideal because most of our tank comes from shields. So, it slows cal scouts from using enhancers because it makes the suit gimpy. An amarr gets most of its tank from low slots so they can stack double enhancers (which will be more than enough) and still have most of their health. I remember the benefit from using a min logi suit before because you could stack damage mods and still stack armor to give you over 700hp of health. You shouldn't be able to do that...it should be a give and a take. You have a good point. But the amarr will have good precision with a 25+- meter range which isnt like the 65+- meter range and precision on the cal currently. If they want anything near as good as the current cal scout they have to gimp their tank like you are saying they should. I think the change is fair with no range bonus on the amarr scout forcing them to sacrifice to exceeded their limit at a cost of their tank while the cal sacrifices nothing and can get 70meters ez. "Diversity in thought through constructive thinking."

Dj grammer New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 280	Posted - 2014.07.12 03:07:00 - [671] - Quote Even Though I am a Minmatar Logistics DO NOT TAKE AWAY THE SIDEARM SLOT FROM AMARR LOGISTICS!!!! Amarr Logis are more combat oriented to begin with and I have yet seen anyone argue about being killed by an Amarr logi because they had a sidearm. CCP I am giving a warning ahead of time that this will cause problems between the community and you if this were to go though. I also know you guys are tired of hearing respec so take my advice, you take that slot away expect people to ask for respecs or see a further decrease in player retention for this game. why ccp?
Argetlam Thorson Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 90	Posted - 2014.07.12 03:28:00 - [672] - Quote My input, Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase.------Definitely * A slight HMG heat buildup increase---Increase dispersion instead * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons.------Maybe, depending on how much * Installation buff, with a range and AI range reduction, reduction of granted WP for destruction.------All around AI reduction please * Blaster turret accuracy improvements, both Small and Large-----Increase a little * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. -----Yes * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase.-----Keep Codebreakers in Lows. Otherwise, yes * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement-----Yes * Reduced small rail range compared to sniper range----Sure * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. ~~Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus~~. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier.-----No. I like the variety we have now * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP-----Please yes. Less reward for rusty needles * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s----Yes * OB WP doubled----Increased, yes, but not doubled. Maybe 3000-3600? * LP payout increased x-fold----Not x-fold. Increase a little bit. * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS------Either separate the modes in the Battle finder or do nothing. I don't mind OMS with vehicles. * Reduced ADS ISK price----No. ADS should be expensive, but effective. I want a sense of accomplishment in costing an enemy pilot a decent bit of ISK when I beat them. Still under tech evaluation * Disabling passive Scan sharing with squads----I like the idea of sharing in a small radius. If not possible, then remove shared passives. * Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible-----Have a x second delay before needle is possible. During this x second period, you can choose to bleed out. * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free----I have no objection with price reduction. Don't do free though. CPM1 Candidate Youtube
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 35	Posted - 2014.07.12 03:50:00 - [673] - Quote Argetlam Thorson wrote: My input, Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase.------Definitely * A slight HMG heat buildup increase---Increase dispersion instead * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons.------Maybe, depending on how much * Installation buff, with a range and AI range reduction, reduction of granted WP for destruction.------All around AI reduction please * Blaster turret accuracy improvements, both Small and Large-----Increase a little * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. -----Yes * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase.-----Keep Codebreakers in Lows. Otherwise, yes * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement-----Yes * Reduced small rail range compared to sniper range----Sure * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. ~~Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus~~. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier.-----No. I like the variety we have now * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP-----Please yes. Less reward for rusty needles * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s----Yes * OB WP doubled----Increased, yes, but not doubled. Maybe 3000-3600? * LP payout increased x-fold----Not x-fold. Increase a little bit. * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS------Either separate the modes in the Battle finder or do nothing. I don't mind OMS with vehicles. * Reduced ADS ISK price----No. ADS should be expensive, but effective. I want a sense of accomplishment in costing an enemy pilot a decent bit of ISK when I beat them. Still under tech evaluation * Disabling passive Scan sharing with squads----I like the idea of sharing in a small radius. If not possible, then remove shared passives. * Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible-----Have a x second delay before needle is possible. During this x second period, you can choose to bleed out. * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free----I have no objection with price reduction. Don't do free though. Most I agree with you Although proto needle needs more points givin, otherwise I just will use std or adv and rep, pro needles need 120 wp or so. Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
deezy dabest Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers IMMORTAL REGIME 756	Posted - 2014.07.12 04:46:00 - [674] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Brush Master wrote: Would like more details on making logis all the same number of equipment slots. How many slots are you going to get? As someone that runs support logi almost all the time, for pub matches, 3 can get you by but for PC battles 4 allows you to be a full support logi with all areas you can support with. +1 on scaled wp for injector. I imagine it'll be 4 across the board. Fix the amarr logi's bonus to apply even after death!!!! please? So "good" uplinks can be left on the field, while you change to another logi? I think this is working as intended. So your intention is to force the Amarr logi to stay in battle while significantly reducing its ability to defend itself? All of the other logis have a natural defense mechanism while the Amarr is left to fend for itself. It really saddens me to see CCPs old style of taking the easy way out coming back around just when I was even starting to have hope that Dust would be around for years to come. I am glad that I have stayed strong since fanfest and not spent another cent on this game, thanks for making it easier to continue this trend. Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 25	Posted - 2014.07.12 06:23:00 - [675] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. * Installation buff, with a range and AI range reduction, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements, both Small and Large * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement * Reduced small rail range compared to sniper range * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. ~~Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus~~. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS * Reduced ADS ISK price Still under tech evaluation * Disabling passive Scan sharing with squads * Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Unfair fall damage calculation Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug Hotfix Delta or later Sidearm rebalance Sniper Rifle review Efficacy bonuses Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity What is the pilot stacking bug?
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 25	Posted - 2014.07.12 06:31:00 - [676] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. * Installation buff, with a range and AI range reduction, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements, both Small and Large * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement * Reduced small rail range compared to sniper range * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. ~~Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus~~. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS * Reduced ADS ISK price Still under tech evaluation * Disabling passive Scan sharing with squads * Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Unfair fall damage calculation Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug Hotfix Delta or later Sidearm rebalance Sniper Rifle review Efficacy bonuses Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity Can you fix the small railgun hit detection it rarely ever registers, and please leave the amaar logi alone its not even op.
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect Dark Taboo 1468	Posted - 2014.07.12 08:55:00 - [677] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: Min logi has 12 slots gal logi has 12 slots Cal logi has 12 slots amar logi has 10 slots plus sidearm plus higher base stats. Not higher base stats. Higher HP but lower speed, the same as with all other Amarr suits. But only the logi has to put up with fewer slots than other races' equivalent. They fixed the Amarr assault in the last patch by putting it on slot parity with other assaults, hopefully they will do the same for the logi in this one.
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Dark Taboo 6233	Posted - 2014.07.12 10:23:00 - [678] - Quote Just pointing out a few things. 1-Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. 1-(I'd like to point out that many Minja are shield tankers, this change will add incentive to armor tank and in turn brick tank. Or be extremely vulnerable if they are indeed pure shield tank, which is extremely dangerous for the already low ehp Minja.) 2-Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. 2-(Good this gives the Amarr a good bonus and increases the chance of Ewar mods in the low to increase range.) (Although Cal will be more tanked now....) 3-Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS. 3-(Is it not possible to separate the two? I actually enjoy a tank's presence on the field personaly, they ad a new layer to combat reducing the boring 'who's got the biggest gun/ehp' matches everyone seems to want....) 4-( Installation buff, with a range and AI range reduction, reduction of granted WP for destruction.) 4-(Please take care of the turrets that shoot at objectives/have too much LOS) 5-(Reduced ADS ISK price.) 5-(Please dont make the same mistake as you did with tanks here, an extremely effective weapon need not cost pennies.) 6-(LP payout increased x-fold) 6-(no complainant, increase to FW play perhaps? Sneaky as always CCP.....) Hope flaylock gets fixed in delta. Pardons if these have already been pointed out, haven't slept more than 5 hours in close to three days. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 1 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 526	Posted - 2014.07.12 10:30:00 - [679] - Quote aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote: Iron Toast wrote: Riptalis wrote: Need fix for vehicle collision damage! I'd rather see this than the ISK reduction for ADS. Possibly add a cheaper training' ADS that had the same flight characteristics as the ADS, but no turrets and maybe even no extra seats. I'm a new ADS pilot and collisions are by far my biggest death cause. I can usually escape AV, but crashes trying to learn maneuvers are expensive and the ADS handling is sufficiently different from the other DS I have to practice using it. Its called militia, already exists, very cheap. There are no militia ADS, you ******* idiot. ADS can only be played with a medium SP investment and a huge ISK investment.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6260	Posted - 2014.07.12 11:42:00 - [680] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: . . Logistics are a support class, their entire role centralizes around supporting their team, so the inevitable question that I have toward all of this hoopla about the sidearms is: Why is the sidearm essential to the Logistics' role? . . Why would a supportive suit want to have a secondary weapon? IN ORDER TO BRING A SUPPORTIVE LIGHT ARM FOR THE TEAM For Grudds sake. Fourth time I have to emphasize this. Supportive weapon like laser, mass driver, swarm launcher or something of the sort. Yea yea with laser you can go 30/0 in an ambush yadi yaddi. Still any one of those weps is a lolfit without a sidearm, no matter how murderous they are in optimal conditions. So than don't bring a support weapon to the fight... You have a Light Weapon slot, that's pretty diverse in and of itself for a main weapon. Saying that you need a sidearm to make use of your support weapon in a support role to be more combat effective, on top of having the capability to have some incredible defense, is asking for everything. IMO, should only be able to choose two out of Offense/Defense/Support. I don't see "because I want to use a support weapon" as a valid reason why we should give any other Logistics a sidearm - the Amarr works well enough with it because it makes some actual sacrifices to have that sidearm. Maybe try using that if you want to roll support weapons. What we certainly don't need is a Caldari Logi with a sidearm, thing is already combat effective without. Focus on the equipment. Encourage Logistics to actually utilize the stuff that they're designed to use. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1

Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 425	Posted - 2014.07.12 13:17:00 - [681] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: . . Logistics are a support class, their entire role centralizes around supporting their team, so the inevitable question that I have toward all of this hoopla about the sidearms is: Why is the sidearm essential to the Logistics' role? . . Why would a supportive suit want to have a secondary weapon? IN ORDER TO BRING A SUPPORTIVE LIGHT ARM FOR THE TEAM For Grudds sake. Fourth time I have to emphasize this. Supportive weapon like laser, mass driver, swarm launcher or something of the sort. Yea yea with laser you can go 30/0 in an ambush yadi yaddi. Still any one of those weps is a lolfit without a sidearm, no matter how murderous they are in optimal conditions. So than don't bring a support weapon to the fight... You have a Light Weapon slot, that's pretty diverse in and of itself for a main weapon. Saying that you need a sidearm to make use of your support weapon in a support role to be more combat effective, on top of having the capability to have some incredible defense, is asking for everything. IMO, should only be able to choose two out of Offense/Defense/Support. I don't see "because I want to use a support weapon" as a valid reason why we should give any other Logistics a sidearm - the Amarr works well enough with it because it makes some actual sacrifices to have that sidearm. Maybe try using that if you want to roll support weapons. What we certainly don't need is a Caldari Logi with a sidearm, thing is already combat effective without. Focus on the equipment. Encourage Logistics to actually utilize the stuff that they're designed to use. I was under the impression that they were suggestig removing a slot in exchange for the sidearm - essentially it'd be just like the Amarr Logistics only with a preference for shields. I would like it if the two suits had 5/3 and 3/5 layouts respectively; that way their off-tank is minimal but their main-tank can be significantly supplemented. I can't say I'm a big fan of adding an equipment slot, although I was the other day and could probably be convinced that way. Essentially, rather than the MinLogi or GalLogi where they're actively logi-ing, even if it is only once per 40s, Amarr and Caldari logistics have no active ability. I'm not really sure about the whole 'CalLogi getting a sidearm' thing, to be frank; it seems to me that CalLogi's bonus is far more 'instant' in the sense that you don't drop hives for someone else to use five minutes down the track; you drop them because someone needs ammo or health now. As opposed to Amarr Logistics whose bonus basically requires that it be a competent combat suit, simply because its bonus does not function when it's dead. Were this changed I could possibly see fit to removing the sidearm (though I'd not be happy about it). It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6262	Posted - 2014.07.12 13:53:00 - [682] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: I was under the impression that they were suggestig removing a slot in exchange for the sidearm - essentially it'd be just like the Amarr Logistics only with a preference for shields. I would like it if the two suits had 5/3 and 3/5 layouts respectively; that way their off-tank is minimal but their main-tank can be significantly supplemented. I can't say I'm a big fan of adding an equipment slot, although I was the other day and could probably be convinced that way. Essentially, rather than the MinLogi or GalLogi where they're actively logi-ing, even if it is only once per 40s, Amarr and Caldari logistics have no active ability. I'm not really sure about the whole 'CalLogi getting a sidearm' thing, to be frank; it seems to me that CalLogi's bonus is far more 'instant' in the sense that you don't drop hives for someone else to use five minutes down the track; you drop them because someone needs ammo or health now. As opposed to Amarr Logistics whose bonus basically requires that it be a competent combat suit, simply because its bonus does not function when it's dead. Were this changed I could possibly see fit to removing the sidearm (though I'd not be happy about it). So in my mind it isn't about 'sacrifices' per se, but more about the actual functioning of the suit. As it is, Amarr is a reasonable combat suit. Without a sidearm it might as well just spam the links and hide behind everyone else. Were the bonus' functionality changed it'd be more like the CalLogi in that it can afford to die simply because people will still be using its bonus. NB: I am not suggesting I should be able to switch suits and keep the bonus. I'd suggest that it'd make a lot more sense if, as long as I am/was in an Amarr Logistics I'm benefiting from the bonus. As soon as I'm in a different suit? Gone. My links are just like everyone else's and I might as well be Minmatar. Yeh, it's kind of a shoddy system overall to be honest. The whole thing about it though is that this appeal to 'racial equipment' was botched from the beginning and is entirely arbitrary. It goes off looks, if anything. I have notes from closed beta when we had CreoDron Dropuplinks, CreoDron/Allotek Nanohives, Viziam Repair Tools... Not sure how many of those are still in game but the fact that they exist(ed) goes to show that the equipment isn't restricted to certain races and we're more apt to provide a trickle-down effect to the other logistics. This isn't to say that all Logistics should get bonuses to all Equipment - not at all. Although, having a dual bonus just makes sense. Amarr specializing in Drop Uplinks with a bonus to - I dunno - repair tools as a secondary. Not as good as Minmatar but still effective. That way they're not "twiddling their thumbs" as it was so vibrantly described but at the same time they're not trying to over-ride yet another combat role. The overall goal, I think, is to encourage players to WANT to use those support options instead of just leaving the equipment slots blank and jacking up armor/shields to ridiculous levels solely because they can and we provide them the means to do so. I don't think it's too late for Logistics to actually utilize equipment to dynamically change the match and I seriously don't think we should default to, "Welp, mechanics suck, guess we'll make it another combat role" just yet. Might as well just run Scout at that point what with it having two equipment slots anyway. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 331	Posted - 2014.07.12 13:56:00 - [683] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: So in my mind it isn't about 'sacrifices' per se, but more about the actual functioning of the suit. As it is, Amarr is a reasonable combat suit. Without a sidearm it might as well just spam the links and hide behind everyone else. So... Just like always then? Bazinga! Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: NB: I am not suggesting I should be able to switch suits and keep the bonus. I'd suggest that it'd make a lot more sense if, as long as I am/was in an Amarr Logistics I'm benefiting from the bonus. As soon as I'm in a different suit? Gone. My links are just like everyone else's and I might as well be Minmatar. Pffttt. You wish. Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 427	Posted - 2014.07.12 14:07:00 - [684] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: I was under the impression that they were suggestig removing a slot in exchange for the sidearm - essentially it'd be just like the Amarr Logistics only with a preference for shields. I would like it if the two suits had 5/3 and 3/5 layouts respectively; that way their off-tank is minimal but their main-tank can be significantly supplemented. I can't say I'm a big fan of adding an equipment slot, although I was the other day and could probably be convinced that way. Essentially, rather than the MinLogi or GalLogi where they're actively logi-ing, even if it is only once per 40s, Amarr and Caldari logistics have no active ability. I'm not really sure about the whole 'CalLogi getting a sidearm' thing, to be frank; it seems to me that CalLogi's bonus is far more 'instant' in the sense that you don't drop hives for someone else to use five minutes down the track; you drop them because someone needs ammo or health now. As opposed to Amarr Logistics whose bonus basically requires that it be a competent combat suit, simply because its bonus does not function when it's dead. Were this changed I could possibly see fit to removing the sidearm (though I'd not be happy about it). So in my mind it isn't about 'sacrifices' per se, but more about the actual functioning of the suit. As it is, Amarr is a reasonable combat suit. Without a sidearm it might as well just spam the links and hide behind everyone else. Were the bonus' functionality changed it'd be more like the CalLogi in that it can afford to die simply because people will still be using its bonus. NB: I am not suggesting I should be able to switch suits and keep the bonus. I'd suggest that it'd make a lot more sense if, as long as I am/was in an Amarr Logistics I'm benefiting from the bonus. As soon as I'm in a different suit? Gone. My links are just like everyone else's and I might as well be Minmatar. Yeh, it's kind of a shoddy system overall to be honest. The whole thing about it though is that this appeal to 'racial equipment' was botched from the beginning and is entirely arbitrary. It goes off looks, if anything. I have notes from closed beta when we had CreoDron Dropuplinks, CreoDron/Allotek Nanohives, Viziam Repair Tools... Not sure how many of those are still in game but the fact that they exist(ed) goes to show that the equipment isn't restricted to certain races and we're more apt to provide a trickle-down effect to the other logistics. This isn't to say that all Logistics should get bonuses to all Equipment - not at all. Although, having a dual bonus just makes sense. Amarr specializing in Drop Uplinks with a bonus to - I dunno - repair tools as a secondary. Not as good as Minmatar but still effective. That way they're not "twiddling their thumbs" as it was so vibrantly described but at the same time they're not trying to over-ride yet another combat role. The overall goal, I think, is to encourage players to WANT to use those support options instead of just leaving the equipment slots blank and jacking up armor/shields to ridiculous levels solely because they can and we provide them the means to do so. I don't think it's too late for Logistics to actually utilize equipment to dynamically change the match and I seriously don't think we should default to, "Welp, mechanics suck, guess we'll make it another combat role" just yet. Might as well just run Scout at that point what with it having two equipment slots anyway. Look, the thing is when I'm running my Amarr Logi I don't want to run a combat role, but I've not much option. If I wanted to play a combat role I could Assault, HMG Sentinel or CalScout. When I'm in my Logistics suit, though, my bonus only applies when I'm alive. To that end, then, Amarr Logistics should be capable of performing a combat role better than other logis, but it should certainly not in any way compete with assaults or heavies, and I think at the moment it's in a reasonably good place relative to Amarr Assault in that sense. The mechanics being as poor as they are and as unchangeable as they are, I don't see much choice in our options. I don't want another combat suit. What I want is a suit capable of defending itself. Against an equally skilled, equally SP-invested Assault or Sentinel my Logistics frame should always die, that's unarguable. I should, however, stand a better chance of surviving (if only thanks to crappy mechanics). Forgive me if I've totally misconstrued your point, or if I've rambled completely off topic, or if I'm just rehashing points I (or you, I guess) have made already; I shouldn't be trying to think this late at night :) It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 326	Posted - 2014.07.12 16:30:00 - [685] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. CCP Rattati, could you do something with Gallente Scout skill bonus? Gallente scout currently have "+1% to Dropsuit scan radius", and "3% to scan profile dampener" - scan profile bonus is useful, and it makes Gallente scout what he supposed to be. But that scan radius bonus do not change much, it is giving just +1 meter at lvl 5 to scan radius. Militia Range Amplifier adds +25% to scan radius, you need to admit it's quite funny comparison to what you get after spending so much SP in Gallente scout. So, could that first bonus some how reinforce second one, but not in CPU/PG reduction like Minmatar and Codebreaker, because it will give nothing. First bonus could for example adding +2% per level to Profile Dampener decreases profile bonus of dropsuit - I like when bonuses force player to use specific items. One of the risone why I skilled Gallente scout was that it has most low, now that Codebreaker will be in high slots I wouldn't mind to get some hacking passive bonuses, but unfortunately it's not fitting to Gallente.. ultimately second bonus could be just bigger. Nosum Hseebnrido
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3745	Posted - 2014.07.12 18:05:00 - [686] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Yeh, it's kind of a shoddy system overall to be honest. The whole thing about it though is that this appeal to 'racial equipment' was botched from the beginning and is entirely arbitrary. It goes off looks, if anything. I have notes from closed beta when we had CreoDron Dropuplinks, CreoDron/Allotek Nanohives, Viziam Repair Tools... Not sure how many of those are still in game but the fact that they exist(ed) goes to show that the equipment isn't restricted to certain races and we're more apt to provide a trickle-down effect to the other logistics. This isn't to say that all Logistics should get bonuses to all Equipment - not at all. Although, having a dual bonus just makes sense. Amarr specializing in Drop Uplinks with a bonus to - I dunno - repair tools as a secondary. Not as good as Minmatar but still effective. That way they're not "twiddling their thumbs" as it was so vibrantly described but at the same time they're not trying to over-ride yet another combat role. The overall goal, I think, is to encourage players to WANT to use those support options instead of just leaving the equipment slots blank and jacking up armor/shields to ridiculous levels solely because they can and we provide them the means to do so. I don't think it's too late for Logistics to actually utilize equipment to dynamically change the match and I seriously don't think we should default to, "Welp, mechanics suck, guess we'll make it another combat role" just yet. Might as well just run Scout at that point what with it having two equipment slots anyway. That's exactly the point of having some cross-racial bonuses, like this. I think in large part we are barking up the wrong tree with this whole discussion in that we are focusing on differentiating the medium frames, which made sense back in 1.3 or 1.4, but is tbh, totally meaningless now. I'll say it again: Logi's are not* more popular than assaults because they are better than assaults. It's because scouts are better than assaults!* Nobody who wants to play an assault role has moved en masse to logi suits in the past 6 months. They've moved to scouts! (or one of the heavy frames). By the same token, imo, the relative popularity of the minmatar logi is because it's bonus is the only one that is totally worth not using a scout suit to do the job: - The Amarr logi bonus is kinda broken, as we've mentioned, and even I use a gal scout to place a lot of my uplinks. - The Caldari bonus is kinda meh for anything but repair hives (see: usuckatdust) - WTF would you use a gallente logi when you can get permascans with a cal scout and don't have to stop shooting to do it? We should focus on making ALL the medium frames different and superior at their designated role than heavy or light frames. This whole medium frame civil war is unproductive. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3745	Posted - 2014.07.12 18:08:00 - [687] - Quote Also, Aeon, are you saying you are now OK with the Amarr logi keeping the sidearm and just don't want to move it over to the cal as well? Or are you still in the no sidearms for any logi camp? (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3235	Posted - 2014.07.12 22:57:00 - [688] - Quote XxVEXESxX wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: You guys make it seem like the suits actually do the shooting lol. Why wouldn't the amarr suit be as strong as the cal scout suit after this bonus? Also...the precision on amarr is horribad because you shouldnt' be able to use modules to enhance your bonus without giving up something. On Caldari, it's ideal because most of our tank comes from shields. So, it slows cal scouts from using enhancers because it makes the suit gimpy. An amarr gets most of its tank from low slots so they can stack double enhancers (which will be more than enough) and still have most of their health. I remember the benefit from using a min logi suit before because you could stack damage mods and still stack armor to give you over 700hp of health. You shouldn't be able to do that...it should be a give and a take. You have a good point. But the amarr will have good precision with a 25+- meter range which isnt like the 65+- meter range and precision on the cal currently. If they want anything near as good as the current cal scout they have to gimp their tank like you are saying they should. I think the change is fair with no range bonus on the amarr scout forcing them to sacrifice to exceeded their limit at a cost of their tank while the cal sacrifices nothing and can get 70meters ez. Edit: slot layout can also be looked at by ccp so this could be a move in the right direction. Cal early warning. Amarr short range certainty. The range is really not needed.....scouts really do not need to use modules. The precision bonus will do just fine. Range bonus isn't groundbreaking....the codebreaking bonus is a better bonus than range Removed all hope with this post
JP Acuna Pendejitos 211	Posted - 2014.07.12 23:14:00 - [689] - Quote Nice to see an assault buff. I like my current Gal bonus to dispersion and kick, so please don't remove it
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 336	Posted - 2014.07.13 01:49:00 - [690] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: -snip- By the same token, imo, the relative popularity of the minmatar logi is because it's bonus is the only one that is totally worth not using a scout suit to do the job. -snip- I cracked your coded mesage: ... imo ... the minmatar logi is ... the only one that is totally worth ... using ... I couldn't agree more. Welcome to the dark side. Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.

John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3754	Posted - 2014.07.13 03:32:00 - [691] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: -snip- By the same token, imo, the relative popularity of the minmatar logi is because it's bonus is the only one that is totally worth not using a scout suit to do the job. -snip- I cracked your coded mesage: ... imo ... the minmatar logi is ... the only one that is totally worth ... using ... I couldn't agree more. Welcome to the dark side. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Larry Desmo Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2014.07.13 05:21:00 - [692] - Quote here is my suggestion, make ambush and ambush oms separate like they used to be but for oms make it to where you can have the 2 havs along with 2 lavs and 1 dropship, the 2 tank limit is nice but the rest of the team suffers on larger maps the lavs would be nice support/escape vehicles
Larry Desmo Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 7	Posted - 2014.07.13 05:26:00 - [693] - Quote also i love my g1/s assault suit but i find the bonus useless
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars Top Men. 161	Posted - 2014.07.13 06:47:00 - [694] - Quote Here is an idea to buff assault suits. All assault suits get a bonus of +12% Aim Down Sights zoom (ADS zoom) per level for all light and sidearm weapons. (should not be able to stack skills such as stacking amarr assault zoom bonus with caldari zoom bonus) This would allow assault suits to have a higher possibility of getting headshots. This would not affect those that are already very skilled in battle (I don't mean those with high SP). But it would improve the average person in battle.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 527	Posted - 2014.07.13 08:59:00 - [695] - Quote WeapondigitX V7 wrote: Here is an idea to buff assault suits. All assault suits get a bonus of +12% Aim Down Sights zoom (ADS zoom) per level for all light and sidearm weapons. (should not be able to stack skills such as stacking amarr assault zoom bonus with caldari zoom bonus) This would allow assault suits to have a higher possibility of getting headshots. This would not affect those that are already very skilled in battle (I don't mean those with high SP). But it would improve the average person in battle. It would also **** up CQC. This idea is an indirect Gallente nerf.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6271	Posted - 2014.07.13 09:15:00 - [696] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Also, Aeon, are you saying you are now OK with the Amarr logi keeping the sidearm and just don't want to move it over to the cal as well? Or are you still in the no sidearms for any logi camp? I'm a lot more likely to respond when people aren't trolling with 'herp derp your' in sum kinna anti-logi club'. Yeah, I'm cool with the Amarr Logi keeping it's sidearm because it makes a lot of sacrifices to have it. Same fitting slots as assault, slower than the other logis, less equipment slots. I said -WAY BACK- at the beginning of all this that I was on the fence about whether or not we should remove it and only even considered it because CCP Rattati made a convincing argument that it being unique was stupid and I figured that by removing it, we had more opportunity to increase it's effectiveness in other areas. It wasn't because 'herpitty derp aeon duzznt like logis cuz reasons' and defaulting to that isn't going to impress anyone. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
pegasis prime PROTO WOLVES 1782	Posted - 2014.07.13 09:15:00 - [697] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The Amarr scout will have a natural low range high precision scan, moving slowly and tanking because of close proximity. The Gallente scout will be the dampener master, being able to be unscannable by sacrificing a lot of slots. The Caldari scout will be the natural long range, low ehp hunter. All of them have the ability to change either range, dampening or precision to alter their desired utility. so with the removal of the precision from cal scouts shall we have a rebuff to range as well I.e. back to 5% per level or even higher? Proud Gunlogi pilot and forge gunner since August 2012. I fought and bled for the State on Caldari prime.
JDEZ09 Dark Side Alliance 69	Posted - 2014.07.13 10:12:00 - [698] - Quote Am I getting this correcty here? - Scout suits are losing their range bonuses except for the caldari scout? Because if so, I would like to know what percentage of a range increase we would get per level. The scouts understand that the percentage of that particular secondary bonus was a bit smaller than the primary bonus. So if the Cal scout is to "Retain" the range bonus, I would like to hear confirmation that the percentage of range increase is simiar to the percentages of the usual primary scout bonus of 5% per level. One thing that I need to point out now. Caldari and Minmatar scouts can only put two Dampeners on a dropsuit. Couple this with the inate dampener skill bonus and proto cloak to get about 65% dampening. NOW, while the cal scouts of present times of this post, usually run a maximum of 2 precision enhancers on their suits (so they arent Project legion tech demo squishy) the amarr scout will be able to run the two precision enhancers with no problem, because their armor can be tanked much easier. While the caldari scout is going to have to go Project Legion Tech Demo Squishy just to be a proper hunter. aka PLTDS Most of them don't wanna be PLTDS, so in defiance they will just run full shields and try to stay dampened as possible. So be ready to see ALOT of that. The assault buffs are much needed, but I agree with Appia that each race needs to benefit from their own light weapons. Just like the amarr, and just like the Minmatar, in a way that is unique from the commandos. I would suggest this for our poor caldari assault brethren: 3% Rate of fire increase to railgun rifles/magsec smgs/bolt pistols per level (because you all know 5% per would be way OP!!) 2% Rail rifle/Magsec smg/ bolt pistol recoil reduction per level - This puts the Caldari assault back in the scary category. with its Range based rail rifles able to crush other weapons that have damage dropoff at the RR optimal range but also; Assault rail rifles and magsecs will more than make up for the spool up time in CQC, with recoil benefits in the hands of a true CALDARI ASSAULT GURU. and boom, there you go. And for the gallente assault: 3% increased effective Range of Plasma Rifles/ion pistols per level 3% heat buildup reduction to ion pistols / and or removing charge overheat and making a full charged shot heat up 80% + Holographic sights on automatic rifles (for Gallente Assaults ONLY) Making their bonuses a super cool and unique twist that will entice MANY people to flock back to their trusty Duvalles and creodron breaches. the range boost will help balance their efficiency, and will utilise that awesome tight bullet dispersion that the plasma rifle shares. It will slighty bring the AR back to its glory days in the hands of those that deserve it the most. The Gal assaults, with their prestige sights and exclusive range. It will still keep caldari assaults in somewhat of a check with the plasma rifles ability to rip through shields at range, and vice versa with caldari assaults being able to rip apart armor tankers. The holographic sight (or acog if you are not wanting to make one) will also help with aiming at multiple distances. It will also give the new players a very familiar experience from other FPSs, should they decide that they would want to have a sight on an automatic plasma weapon. They will know that Gallente is the way to go. I just personally think that would be very cool. And IDK maybe make it optional for the iron sight loyalists. Even though IDK who would turn down a holo sight on a full auto plasma rifle. I dont know if that is even possible, to have weapon attatchment exclusivity. But it sure would make me jealous :) We want to see some numbers, and spreadsheets soon dev bros. These ideas placed in this thread all deserve some looking into. Hardened DUST veterans and New Bros alike, deserve to see some adjustments that will be cool, and fresh, to bring to the "Ever Evolving Battlefield." Thank you for reading
Nirwanda Vaughns 426th Infantry 642	Posted - 2014.07.13 10:24:00 - [699] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. how about restoring the Sever, Raven, Valor to Chromo colour schemes and also restoring the 'Neo' Logistics C-1 to the crazy all yellow suit? cos lets face it that was pretty awesome Also how's about bringing back the old AUR suits from closed beta too cos there were some pretty nice looking ones back in the day Rolling with the punches
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6504	Posted - 2014.07.13 11:38:00 - [700] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. how about restoring the Sever, Raven, Valor to Chromo colour schemes and also restoring the 'Neo' Logistics C-1 to the crazy all yellow suit? cos lets face it that was pretty awesome Also how's about bringing back the old AUR suits from closed beta too cos there were some pretty nice looking ones back in the day it seems as the game aged it became less beautiful. see you space cowboy...

Nirwanda Vaughns 426th Infantry 643	Posted - 2014.07.13 11:49:00 - [701] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. how about restoring the Sever, Raven, Valor to Chromo colour schemes and also restoring the 'Neo' Logistics C-1 to the crazy all yellow suit? cos lets face it that was pretty awesome Also how's about bringing back the old AUR suits from closed beta too cos there were some pretty nice looking ones back in the day it seems as the game aged it became less beautiful. yup, remeber stuff like the firebrand suits in red and gold and the black/gold assault suit too or the pure white 'stormtrooper' assault. the old MAG suit colours were a lot nicer too than the cut/paste 'lets stick a camo on it' versions we have now Rolling with the punches
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 442	Posted - 2014.07.13 12:15:00 - [702] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Also, Aeon, are you saying you are now OK with the Amarr logi keeping the sidearm and just don't want to move it over to the cal as well? Or are you still in the no sidearms for any logi camp? I'm a lot more likely to respond when people aren't trolling with 'herp derp your' in sum kinna anti-logi club'. Yeah, I'm cool with the Amarr Logi keeping it's sidearm because it makes a lot of sacrifices to have it. Same fitting slots as assault, slower than the other logis, less equipment slots. I said -WAY BACK- at the beginning of all this that I was on the fence about whether or not we should remove it and only even considered it because CCP Rattati made a convincing argument that it being unique was stupid and I figured that by removing it, we had more opportunity to increase it's effectiveness in other areas. It wasn't because 'herpitty derp aeon duzznt like logis cuz reasons' and defaulting to that isn't going to impress anyone. That was kind of unnecessary; I don't think John meant any offence by what he said, and to be quite honest, I'm not sure where you found it, considering it's true you were against any logi having a sidearm. As far as sacrifices are concerned, if IWS is correct and the sidearm is in fact the least valuable slot in the game, I don't think it'd be unreasonable for Amarr's slot layout to be brought in line with the other suits as opposed to its arbitrarily having fewer slots, and that its fitting capabilities be improved; there's no reason why Amarr Logistics should have less fitting than the other logis, who universally max out at 102 PG if I'm remembering correctly. Considering that consumption-wise a sidearm is near enough to identical to an equipment slot without the potential for WP gain, and offering little more than extended survivability (which is why we want it, in the end) I don't think either of those requests is unreasonable. It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3521	Posted - 2014.07.13 12:53:00 - [703] - Quote By the way do not touch the colour scheme on the C-1 assault "carbon". Its the only true unique looking suit and i have one
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 338	Posted - 2014.07.13 12:54:00 - [704] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: As far as sacrifices are concerned, if IWS is correct and the sidearm is in fact the least valuable slot in the game, I don't think it'd be unreasonable for Amarr's slot layout to be brought in line with the other suits as opposed to its arbitrarily having fewer slots, and that its fitting capabilities be improved; there's no reason why Amarr Logistics should have less fitting than the other logis, who universally max out at 102 PG if I'm remembering correctly. Considering that consumption-wise a sidearm is near enough to identical to an equipment slot without the potential for WP gain, and offering little more than extended survivability (which is why we want it, in the end) I don't think either of those requests is unreasonable. Except that the sidearm slot is NOT the least valuable in the game. It is equally important, and often moreso depending on the circumstances, for both WPs and survivability. Sidearm OR extra equipment slot - make a choice. It's only fair. Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
Senator Snipe Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 166	Posted - 2014.07.13 14:18:00 - [705] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: snip The Nanite Injector WP scaling is great news. Is there any possibility of squeezing in tier based scaling for repair tools aswell? While to a lesser extent, they have the exact same problem of higher tiers being a clear downgrade in purely economic terms. Also, regarding OMS. Could you elaborate on why you believe further reducing the number of game modes, Pilots and AV infantry can participate in with their preferred playstyle, is necessary? Let me use a loaded question to articulate my concern: Would you say that non-AV capable infantry players require/deserve a vehicle free game mode for the sake of it, or is this decision purely driven by current balance issues and thus a (theoretically) temporary concession? Every single FPS game that I have played has a vehicle free TDM. I see no reason why DUST 514 should not have it. I am fine with vehicles moving to Dom and Skirm because they are objective based. Sure, but most FPS games don't have a long-term skill investment into those vehicles. Trust me when I say that I don't like where vehicles are at without them having a clear cut significant role to play on the battlefield beyond just slaying (which most infantry already do), but I was against taking them out of Ambush and now that we're taking them out of Ambush OMS... I'm starting to wonder where this is going to end. Don't remove them from the game-mode JUST BECAUSE every other game has a vehicle-free game mode, in fact, I'd argue that that's the -LAST- reason you should have to remove them from a game mode. It's important to understand that, even if it's over-powered as hell, it's still in the game and people are still choosing this as their play-style. By removing that play-style from certain game modes, you're effectively punishing the player for making that choice and limiting their options. My primary question is -WHY- are we removing them from the game modes? Because they're powerful? Of course they are, that's how they were designed. They were designed without any role to play -OTHER- than slaying and moving people around. Let me don the tin foil for a second and be clear of what I'm trying to illustrate, in order of the timeline of events: Black Ops HAVs were removed because they were in a weird place. Marauder HAVs were removed because they were too powerful. Scout LAVs, Logistics LAVs, Logistics Dropships, and Enforcer HAVs were removed because they were in a weird place. Removed all of the variants of turrets (stabilized, etc) and completely overhauled the modules. Removed vehicles from Ambush. Now we're removing vehicles from Ambush OMS. I get that they're unbalanced, I get that they're a pressure point, but if you ask me, I think these changes are being made because vehicles were designed poorly from the get go. Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm fully willing to accept that possibility, but it's starting to look like that poor design isn't being evaluated correctly and the slippery slope of trying to deal with them is taking effect. What functional role can vehicles perform that infantry can't? Why should they perform that role? What are the ways that they can be designed to perform that role? What are the ways we can consider that doesn't make that role over-powered? That's all I got to say on that. Will post my other thoughts on the hotfix in a separate post. In my opinion vehicles should never have been in Ambush. Simple. It's not because they are unbalanced or other reasons. I would be happy to have a vehicle only mode but that's never going to happen, due to how vehicles are brought into the game, and optimization problems. I just don't think vehicles are entitled to be in every mode. We would only be punishing vehicles if they were banned from all game modes. Trust me, if you had left us the option to chose between ambush and ambush OMS while keeping the "Tanks in OMS only" rule, you wouln't hear our mouths. All you have to do is leave it how it is now, and just give us the option to chose between ambush and OMS. I don't like playing skirmish and dom, its too long. I don't see why i have to play these modes to destroy vehicles now. My forge skills are unmatchable
Nerf Everything Xpert Intervention 0	Posted - 2014.07.13 14:29:00 - [706] - Quote My ONLY COMPLAINT!!!!!! Solo/small squads need reconsideration for OB support. I walk alone! REASONABLE REQUEST...... 1 player squad........ 3000 wp 2 player squad........ 3500 wp 3 player squad....... 4000 wp 4 player squad........ 4500 wp 5 player squad........ 5000 wp This has ALWAYS been the problem with dust. You throw ALL players into the same categories. Proto squads can EASILY get 5000-10000 wp. Feel free to nerf everything else! OB's are my ONLY reason for living! If you take that away...........
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 339	Posted - 2014.07.13 14:41:00 - [707] - Quote Nerf Everything wrote: My ONLY COMPLAINT!!!!!! Solo/small squads need reconsideration for OB support. I walk alone! REASONABLE REQUEST...... 1 player squad........ 3000 wp 2 player squad........ 3500 wp 3 player squad........ 4000 wp 4 player squad........ 4500 wp 5 player squad........ 5000 wp This has ALWAYS been the problem with dust. You throw ALL players into the same categories. Proto squads can EASILY get 5000-10000 wp. Feel free to nerf everything else! OB's are my ONLY reason for living! If you take that away........... Alternate version: 1 player squad........ 2000 wp 2 player squad........ 3000 wp 3 player squad........ 4000 wp 4 player squad........ 5000 wp 5 player squad........ 6000 wp Each subsequent OB would cost an additional 1000 WP. (ie the 2nd OB for a 5 player squad would cost 7000 WP) Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
Dunce Masterson Savage Bullet 118	Posted - 2014.07.13 16:15:00 - [708] - Quote limiting CPU/PG is just wrong they don't do that in eve online with max fitting skills you can fit pretty much what ever you want on your ships its a shame players cry buckets of tiers tell they get their way in this game. players should be able to fit their racial weapons and the kind of tank and utility they want on their suit with maxed fitting skills. to bad this game dosnt have all the racial weapons and not all tank styles are equal like they are in eve online. I don't even know why I bother.
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2207	Posted - 2014.07.13 16:19:00 - [709] - Quote Assault's need to fill the "Light Assault" Function on the battlefield. not the Cal and Gallente Scout.... The Ability to be a fast moving, High damage suit with a little more health then a scout. Something with a more effective indirect damage bonus.. like RoF or something more Racial specific to the class. Basically sacrificing the ability to be "Tanky" for damage and mobility, and eliminating the need for scouts to fit and try and half fill this role. Where Commandos Fulfill the "Heavy Assault" Role on the battlefield. Having a Straight damage bonus and the ability to be "Tanky" but at the sacrifice of mobility.. They still have an equipment slot alowing them to setup on outside perimeters and be the masters of toe to toe at medium range gun fights. P.S.I think both classes have to be tweaked together or the balance will be off.**
Nirwanda Vaughns 426th Infantry 644	Posted - 2014.07.13 16:43:00 - [710] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: As far as sacrifices are concerned, if IWS is correct and the sidearm is in fact the least valuable slot in the game, I don't think it'd be unreasonable for Amarr's slot layout to be brought in line with the other suits as opposed to its arbitrarily having fewer slots, and that its fitting capabilities be improved; there's no reason why Amarr Logistics should have less fitting than the other logis, who universally max out at 102 PG if I'm remembering correctly. Considering that consumption-wise a sidearm is near enough to identical to an equipment slot without the potential for WP gain, and offering little more than extended survivability (which is why we want it, in the end) I don't think either of those requests is unreasonable. Except that the sidearm slot is NOT the least valuable in the game. It is equally important, and often moreso depending on the circumstances, for both WPs and survivability. Sidearm OR extra equipment slot - make a choice. It's only fair. ishukone assault SMG with maxed skills is usually better than the Assault Rifle these days Rolling with the punches

Nirwanda Vaughns 426th Infantry 644	Posted - 2014.07.13 16:50:00 - [711] - Quote all i see from vehicle drivers whining about vehicles being removed in Ambush is cos it means they won't have an 'I Win' button and they'd have to play skirmish and domi where people expect to be finding a mass of vehicles and they're scared they're gonna get their ases kicked instead of lol'ing at the infantry in ambush day in day out in a hope their ZOMGPWNDAWEOSME kdr will add a few extra millimeter to their d*cks and impress the laydees. but on topic of Ambush/OMS with the removal of vehicles can we have the maps back to a similar size that they used to be? maps like the research facility, the main city is big enough instead of havign a huge map with 3 sites to run around aimlessly. obviously keep them with enough movement to prevent too much spawn killign but then to be fair if their are going to be changes to Ambush i think the primary one shoudl be a better 'smart' deploy... cos that aint smart Rolling with the punches
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect Dark Taboo 1476	Posted - 2014.07.13 17:08:00 - [712] - Quote Here is the data to show that the Amarr logi is avoided at proto level, due to the fact it is very hard to fit with max skills due to the puny PG, has fewer slots than other logis (even including the sidearm), and is the only logi with a bonus that almost never applies in competitive play (because you are sure to die in competitive play).
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 618	Posted - 2014.07.13 17:36:00 - [713] - Quote I can comment very little on scout, assault, and heavy changes. BUT when it concerns logis I must get involved. I have played each Race and can go on about each variation that makes up a Logistics suit. This Proposal ....: * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. Is inadequate if any change is to be made - as these are not the changes that should be made at this time. Is unnecessary - when there has been no dominant problem other than slayers jumping classes - logis have stayed logis. Is retribution for imbalances that exist in other classes and not the logistics class. Is attempting tiericide that eliminates racial differences H/L/E slot counts that in turn benefited the natural base stats of each option. Is without basis in the community... thus, this must be either whim or stem from some analysis of data. AMARR And The SideArm The Amarr sacrifices more than an equipment slot for a side arm. While it does have the largest base hp (a whole 30!) more than the others it cannot compete in any tanking competition - it will always lose to the suits with more slots. The rest of its stats are pretty crap as well (basis for logis) - lacking slot count, horrible speed, WORST RACIAL BONUS EVER, and lower PG so that it can't even fill its Bonus Assigned Role effectively. It is reasonable the worst Logistics choice ever. THE ONLY REASON, really, to use this logi is to be a half logi half assault character with none of the bonuses from either. To this end it can use all Logi equipment as well as an assault - no bonuses - (Drop Uplinks are not Logi items - that is a separate discussion) and use a weapon and sidearm with no bonuses either that would come from the assault side. The only benefits is to have some equipment on hand for the team (or yourself) and semi slay-and/or semi-logi that's it. The GAL beats it in Tank and EQ. Minmatar in Tank and EQ. and CAL beats it in tanking and its slaying abilities because of all its slots. And yet I love to play this logi - because it is a challenge. The Amarr pays to high a price for the wealth of one side arm slot. But it is the only thing it has - the side-arm is the racial bonus. If that is removed it truly has no value outside of a PC battle. Tiericide for Logis If this is a test - communicate it as such. Perhaps we would be willing with a plan that can be explained - so I guess we are still waiting for the details (i just haven't seen them). IF it is not just a test CCP wants to conduct then lets get into the details of HOW will the slots and equipment be equalized? will it be H/L/E: 5/4/3 or 4/5/4 or 4/4/4 or 3/3/4? A 4/5/4 Amarr logi would be awesome but a 3/3/4 Amarr is old news and not really a change beyond one more equipment slot that couldn't be filled due to pg/cpu limits. ARE we going back to the old Minmatar Standard that was in the old days for all logi support? will this mean that all suits will be flattened? Racial diversity diminished? boiling this whole game into separate classes, same stats between them, and only costume differences? I WOULD REALLY LIKE SOME MORE DETAILS! IF so there will be another re-balancing act when this all hit the other classes as well. IFF we are going to do this lets do it right and open up a DEV thread for balancing. IN MY view the logi of each race should have the equal H/L slots of its ASSAULT brother (but that needs a whole balancing review as well) with lower base stats and more equipment slots. I think it would be great to be able to swap a side arm for a grenade slot and vice versa.... if we were throwing ideas into the pot that is. SUMMARY: Leave the AMARR side arm for now. Present us with this Tiericide Proposal so we can rip it up/add our experience to the idea. Generally a bad moment to just drop this out of the blue with other issues needing priority. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
aaaasdff ertgfdd 124	Posted - 2014.07.13 17:46:00 - [714] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: I can comment very little on scout, assault, and heavy changes. BUT when it concerns logis I must get involved. I have played each Race and can go on about each variation that makes up a Logistics suit. This Proposal ....: * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. Is inadequate if any change is to be made - as these are not the changes that should be made at this time. Is unnecessary - when there has been no dominant problem other than slayers jumping classes - logis have stayed logis. Is retribution for imbalances that exist in other classes and not the logistics class. Is attempting tiericide that eliminates racial differences H/L/E slot counts that in turn benefited the natural base stats of each option. Is without basis in the community... thus, this must be either whim or stem from some analysis of data. AMARR And The SideArm The Amarr sacrifices more than an equipment slot for a side arm. While it does have the largest base hp (a whole 30!) more than the others it cannot compete in any tanking competition - it will always lose to the suits with more slots. The rest of its stats are pretty crap as well (basis for logis) - lacking slot count, horrible speed, WORST RACIAL BONUS EVER, and lower PG so that it can't even fill its Bonus Assigned Role effectively. It is reasonable the worst Logistics choice ever. THE ONLY REASON, really, to use this logi is to be a half logi half assault character with none of the bonuses from either. To this end it can use all Logi equipment as well as an assault - no bonuses - (Drop Uplinks are not Logi items - that is a separate discussion) and use a weapon and sidearm with no bonuses either that would come from the assault side. The only benefits is to have some equipment on hand for the team (or yourself) and semi slay-and/or semi-logi that's it. The GAL beats it in Tank and EQ. Minmatar in Tank and EQ. and CAL beats it in tanking and its slaying abilities because of all its slots. And yet I love to play this logi - because it is a challenge. The Amarr pays to high a price for the wealth of one side arm slot. But it is the only thing it has - the side-arm is the racial bonus. If that is removed it truly has no value outside of a PC battle. Tiericide for Logis If this is a test - communicate it as such. Perhaps we would be willing with a plan that can be explained - so I guess we are still waiting for the details (i just haven't seen them). IF it is not just a test CCP wants to conduct then lets get into the details of HOW will the slots and equipment be equalized? will it be H/L/E: 5/4/3 or 4/5/4 or 4/4/4 or 3/3/4? A 4/5/4 Amarr logi would be awesome but a 3/3/4 Amarr is old news and not really a change beyond one more equipment slot that couldn't be filled due to pg/cpu limits. ARE we going back to the old Minmatar Standard that was in the old days for all logi support? will this mean that all suits will be flattened? Racial diversity diminished? boiling this whole game into separate classes, same stats between them, and only costume differences? I WOULD REALLY LIKE SOME MORE DETAILS! IF so there will be another re-balancing act when this all hit the other classes as well. IFF we are going to do this lets do it right and open up a DEV thread for balancing. IN MY view the logi of each race should have the equal H/L slots of its ASSAULT brother (but that needs a whole balancing review as well) with lower base stats and more equipment slots. I think it would be great to be able to swap a side arm for a grenade slot and vice versa.... if we were throwing ideas into the pot that is. SUMMARY: Leave the AMARR side arm for now. Present us with this Tiericide Proposal so we can rip it up/add our experience to the idea. Generally a bad moment to just drop this out of the blue with other issues needing priority. Damn, its like I said it, except without all my insults and sarcasm. I completely agree. The biggest thing that bothers me here is the notion of tiericide. We dont want it. Let me be clear CCP Rattati, WE DON'T WANT TIERICIDE in Dust. We want choice, freedom, diversity, uniqueness. Im sure tiericide makes your job easier but we do not want it. Unique stats, slots, and design, we want it all. It gives us the freedom. Cloaks are equipment, they do not belong to scouts, dont try to make an item only for a certain suit. You give logis a fitting bonus, it applies to all equipment. Dont cop duces now.The biggest problem I have is WHERE IS THIS COMING FROM? Why are you doing this now? Who wants this? Who asked for it? Why are you artificially making an issue where there is none? An answer please. INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/ Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/ Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3773	Posted - 2014.07.13 19:50:00 - [715] - Quote Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Also, Aeon, are you saying you are now OK with the Amarr logi keeping the sidearm and just don't want to move it over to the cal as well? Or are you still in the no sidearms for any logi camp? I'm a lot more likely to respond when people aren't trolling with 'herp derp your' in sum kinna anti-logi club'. Yeah, I'm cool with the Amarr Logi keeping it's sidearm because it makes a lot of sacrifices to have it. Same fitting slots as assault, slower than the other logis, less equipment slots. I said -WAY BACK- at the beginning of all this that I was on the fence about whether or not we should remove it and only even considered it because CCP Rattati made a convincing argument that it being unique was stupid and I figured that by removing it, we had more opportunity to increase it's effectiveness in other areas. It wasn't because 'herpitty derp aeon duzznt like logis cuz reasons' and defaulting to that isn't going to impress anyone. That was kind of unnecessary; I don't think John meant any offence by what he said, and to be quite honest, I'm not sure where you found it, considering it's true you were against any logi having a sidearm. Yeah, IDK Aeon, I mean, it's a true statement, no trolling needed or implied. There are currently two camps, the one who wants the Amarr to keep it's sidearm and the one that doesn't. You were quite firmly in the latter group, at least initially. If you have changed your mind, that's one less (pretty influential) person I need to try to convince otherwise. ...Of that, at least. I still think the Amarr logi needs work, as RedBleach beautifully pointed out. It's fitting power is abysmal and it needs another low, even with the sidearm. But that's another discussion. Bethhy wrote: Assault's need to fill the "Light Assault" Function on the battlefield. not the Cal and Gallente Scout.... The Ability to be a fast moving, High damage suit with a little more health then a scout. Something with a more effective indirect damage bonus.. like RoF or something more Racial specific to the class. Basically sacrificing the ability to be "Tanky" for damage and mobility, and eliminating the need for scouts to fit and try and half fill this role. Where Commandos Fulfill the "Heavy Assault" Role on the battlefield. Having a Straight damage bonus and the ability to be "Tanky" but at the sacrifice of mobility.. They still have an equipment slot alowing them to setup on outside perimeters and be the masters of toe to toe at medium range gun fights. P.S.I think both classes have to be tweaked together or the balance will be off.** I could not agree more on virtually all of this. Either isolating or pitting the medium frames against eachother right now in terms of balance is the wrong approach entirely because that's not the root cause of the "assault problem" we've been talking about for, what, a year now? (I know that's not exactly what Bethhy meant, but the same logic applies) (The godfather of tactical logistics)
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 621	Posted - 2014.07.13 19:58:00 - [716] - Quote Returning to the AMARR SIDEARM and TIERECIDE for LOGI's SLOT LAYOUT With some more education and carefully perusing the thread the summary is to make each logi have the same number of H/L/E slots at each tier, not that each slot layout would be the same regardless of race - meaning we are all not going to be 4/4/4 regardless of race. Meaning: Min Proto: 12 total slots so each logi has 12 slots at proto with 4 of those being equipment. EXAMPLE: MIN 4/4/4 GAL 3/5/4 CAL 5/3/4???? AMR 3/5/4???? The change sounds like it includes each tier having the same amount of available equipment slots. If that means that each starts with 2 std, 3 adv, 4 pro or 3 std, 3adv, 4 pro I don't know - we don't have those details yet. AMARR SLOT and SIDE ARM Honestly it needs to keep the weapon and stay at the 3 max equipment it achieved at ADV level because it sucks so much at general logi-ing the sidearm is what gives it the small push to be a little more and even viable as a logi. So the greater question is how to balance it if we keep the sidearm. Do we draw in the Caldari or Galente to also have a side arm and lose one of their coveted slots? That wont fly... well maybe with the Caldari - sorry I just don't see many of them on the field, ever - just my experience. The draw of the Caldari was the Slot layout - but the CPU nerf shut them down hard - they too can't always fit their intended racial bonus equipment. So, do we draw a High slot and make them a 4/4/3 logi with a sidearm? Well now that beats the crap out of the Amarr 3/4/3 with a sidearm. Well then perhaps the slot adjustments would look like this: CAL 5/3/3 + SA or 4/4/3 + SA if AMR 3/5/3 + SA or 4/4/3 + SA as well.... The first iterations are more likely if we were to see that a sidearm = 1eq slot. The Amarr in general need to be brought up to slot parity to equal their defined qualities - if they tank armor they should have the lows to do so and beat Gallente at it (thus the slightly higher base HP - old argument but still true) but that goes for all of the Amarr classes. Also MEDUIM suits must have the same H/L slots in each branch of ASSAULT and LOGI making it the equipment and Weapon specializations that define their roles. Further Role Differentiation But please, above all remember that this is an FPS and as such even a logi needs to defend, attack, and sometimes have those PWN Moments to brag about. Logis pay a heavy price (yes ISK too) for carrying equipment - sucky base stats - and to further define the role I do like the increase in fitting bonuses described by the devs and then equalizing the MED suits and the other suggestions to have the racial equipment bonuses apply to all logi suits, just in lesser degrees as a role bonus. SO that logis can always logi better than any other class regardless of the logi used. This is more acceptable than most other changes, but how to fix the assaults?... I don't know, that's not my specialty. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
Luna McDuffing COALICION LATINA 27	Posted - 2014.07.13 20:51:00 - [717] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The Amarr scout will have a natural low range high precision scan, moving slowly and tanking because of close proximity. The Gallente scout will be the dampener master, being able to be unscannable by sacrificing a lot of slots. The Caldari scout will be the natural long range, low ehp hunter. All of them have the ability to change either range, dampening or precision to alter their desired utility. What you said does make sense but, you know what else make sense? dropsuit respect. I chose the caldari scout exactly for its precision enhancement capabilities. If you want to give the ammar scout presicion enhancement that is cool but, I don't think it is fair to remove what you already have. i.e. don't take precicion enhancement away from caladari. I use the gallente logi so the change in ammar logi side-arm doesn't affect me but, I do see it as unfair. I know many people in my corp that went ammar logi just for the side arm and I myself have concidered as well. On top of that you want to make them move slower than they already do. If this is the case then I would rather be a minmatar scout because the speed issue has been one of the torns on my side. Then again it does have that self repair bonus hhhmmm!!! Still respect for the suits. The way I see it if new equipment or ability come along then no respect is needed because that is like real life. In real life you buy a truck that can tow 6,000 pounds and next year a newer model can tow 8,000lb well, that is just the way it is. New technology better equipment. The way you guys do things when the new 8,000lb truck comes along the old truck can no longer tow 6,000lb.
shady merc RisingSuns Dark Taboo 49	Posted - 2014.07.13 22:12:00 - [718] - Quote Assault change The above link is my thought on fixing the Assault suit. Basically I believe we need to change the CPU and PG of our weapons and modules so we reward each suit for fitting items that are in line with their role. Example by making Kin Cats High CPU and Low PG We could reward Scouts for using them while making them less likely on other suits due to high CPU demand.
Leeroy Gannarsein Legio DXIV 451	Posted - 2014.07.14 00:09:00 - [719] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: As far as sacrifices are concerned, if IWS is correct and the sidearm is in fact the least valuable slot in the game, I don't think it'd be unreasonable for Amarr's slot layout to be brought in line with the other suits as opposed to its arbitrarily having fewer slots, and that its fitting capabilities be improved; there's no reason why Amarr Logistics should have less fitting than the other logis, who universally max out at 102 PG if I'm remembering correctly. Considering that consumption-wise a sidearm is near enough to identical to an equipment slot without the potential for WP gain, and offering little more than extended survivability (which is why we want it, in the end) I don't think either of those requests is unreasonable. Except that the sidearm slot is NOT the least valuable in the game. It is equally important, and often moreso depending on the circumstances, for both WPs and survivability. Sidearm OR extra equipment slot - make a choice. It's only fair. I did make a choice. My personal preference would be to forgo the extra tanking slot and gaining an equipment. In the end the sudearm's main use on my logistics suit is to save me when I've been silly. It's basically just an extended magazine with lower DPS. It would seem like wisdom, but for the warning in my heart... CCP BLOWOUT FOR CPM1
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1101	Posted - 2014.07.14 01:02:00 - [720] - Quote (as i read the last 3-4 pages and so on, i think im gonna say something about how i feel towards some of this stuff) Logi's i agree with some of you that the logi's shouldn't be all the same and that the amarr logi should at the least have 1 less slot whether its 1 less hig/low or 1 less Equipment slot. the idea that somebody brought up, of the logi's having 12 slots but different in thier ways is much more preferable than what CCP suggested to us. Scouts since the Caldari scout is loosing its scanning bonus and is keeping its range i recommend that it stays at 5% but the other scout should have a 3% bonus to range since the caldari scout should be able to out range the other scouts naturally. i am also worried that the Amarr scout will be FOTM since it is armor tanked and will be gaining the passive scanning bonus. in return i think that it shuold be an efficiency bonus so you have to use the module and reduce the bonus to 2% or 3% so it wont be so powerful as it is now. Game modes i have to disagree with CCP trying to remove ambush OMS, they are simply coming at this the wrong way because everyone is crying thier eyes out for vehicles to be removed from a specific game mode. instead they should seperte them so all players can select between regular ambush and ambush OMS, so vehicle users who want to make isk fast can do OMS and infantry that hate vehicles can do regular ambush. Vehicles i like that ADS's are going to get a price drop, but please dont make them too cheap like tanks. and on that note, it doesn't make sense that tanks are crazy cheap. people can spam them without even going isk negative until after the 5-6 tank. the price of tanks should go up, but not too much, preferably back to when the STD tanks cost 200k per tank and militia should cost a base of around 100k per tank. that way if you want to spam tanks you will go isk negative quicker and people are less likely to tank spam a particular game mode. back to ADS's, its crazy how pythons are insanely vulnerable to collision and bumping while the incubus is highly resistant to collision, crashing, landing, and etc. the python needs a dmg reduction to collision and crashing. and when it comes to dog fighting the python is pretty much ALWAYS the second choice to fight in since rail gins tear apart pythons in no time. they just cant compete against incubus's since armor is dominant over shields. even a triple harden'd python cant withstand a simple fight against an incubus. (may add more later) SP earned perday/week

Xak Arji Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 57	Posted - 2014.07.14 04:30:00 - [721] - Quote I believe that if you even slightly nerf the hmg, you need to slightly nerf the shottie. I see the KDR on average a scout shottie and hmg heavy are about equal. So lower the ROF of the shot gun. Then call it equal.
Cheydinhal Guard Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 127	Posted - 2014.07.14 06:06:00 - [722] - Quote Xak Arji wrote: I believe that if you even slightly nerf the hmg, you need to slightly nerf the shottie. I see the KDR on average a scout shottie and hmg heavy are about equal. So lower the ROF of the shot gun. Then call it equal. Nerf the shottie? Have you ever even used that thing? You have to be within hugging distance for it to be effective, and the hit detection on that thing is horrid. A RoF nerf would make it even easier for a heavy to turn around and insta-blap a scout who gets behind him. You filthy amarr, with your golden guns and your sparkling merc quarters....Curse you.. GalLogi to the end
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6295	Posted - 2014.07.14 09:31:00 - [723] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Leeroy Gannarsein wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Also, Aeon, are you saying you are now OK with the Amarr logi keeping the sidearm and just don't want to move it over to the cal as well? Or are you still in the no sidearms for any logi camp? I'm a lot more likely to respond when people aren't trolling with 'herp derp your' in sum kinna anti-logi club'. Yeah, I'm cool with the Amarr Logi keeping it's sidearm because it makes a lot of sacrifices to have it. Same fitting slots as assault, slower than the other logis, less equipment slots. I said -WAY BACK- at the beginning of all this that I was on the fence about whether or not we should remove it and only even considered it because CCP Rattati made a convincing argument that it being unique was stupid and I figured that by removing it, we had more opportunity to increase it's effectiveness in other areas. It wasn't because 'herpitty derp aeon duzznt like logis cuz reasons' and defaulting to that isn't going to impress anyone. That was kind of unnecessary; I don't think John meant any offence by what he said, and to be quite honest, I'm not sure where you found it, considering it's true you were against any logi having a sidearm. Yeah, IDK Aeon, I mean, it's a true statement, no trolling needed or implied. There are currently two camps, the one who wants the Amarr to keep it's sidearm and the one that doesn't. You were quite firmly in the latter group, at least initially. If you have changed your mind, that's one less (pretty influential) person I need to try to convince otherwise. ...Of that, at least. I still think the Amarr logi needs work, as RedBleach beautifully pointed out. It's fitting power is abysmal and it needs another low, even with the sidearm. But that's another discussion. It's never that black and white and sorry if I misconstrued what you were asking but when you ignore all other facets and reasoning to focus entirely on the -one- aspect - my understanding the plausibility as to why there was consideration to removing the sidearm from the Amarr Logi - then yes, it comes off as implied trolling. Please don't make assumptions about where I stand on a situation unless you're willing to take everything into consideration. Here's the post where I literally said, word for word, that I was on the fence about it and could understand the reasoning as to why they considered removing it. And again, I was only ever on the fence about it because I felt that there was more to gain in it's place. Once more, this isn't about simply removing the sidearm, there is -far- more to it than just that. Here's another link that'll help paint the rest of the picture. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect Dark Taboo 1480	Posted - 2014.07.14 11:58:00 - [724] - Quote If you want to do this: CCP Rattati wrote: * Primary Objective Assault buff You should not do this: Quote: * Blaster turret accuracy improvements, both Small and Large Or this: Quote: * Reduced ADS ISK price You don't really think it's the invisible scouts and corridor camping heavies that get farmed by ADSes and blaster tanks, do you?
BlazeXYZ xCosmic Voidx Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 40	Posted - 2014.07.14 13:27:00 - [725] - Quote Spreadsheet with all the data? The Blazing Intellect Machine
KrazyEyeKilla Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 34	Posted - 2014.07.14 13:30:00 - [726] - Quote Not one one to comment on logis as am I not as experienced in the role as other people but I like the current slot/equipment layout . It gives it the races a more distinct flavor.
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 968	Posted - 2014.07.14 15:23:00 - [727] - Quote WP for injectors is cool, but does it follow the more RISk, more REWARD rule? Maybe if you can full HP revive a heavy and rep him near red dots to reap guardians points, but what if here are no red dots around? which gives you more WP? full HP revive or low HP revive and repping to full HP with a cheap repper? Maybe make it so that MLT injectors have a big cooldown-effect between revives (solves the revive-grieving, we all know which kind of injector those people use) while the PROTO variant has almost no cool-down, maybe allow lower injectors to give more HP aswell.
Nirwanda Vaughns 426th Infantry 645	Posted - 2014.07.14 15:27:00 - [728] - Quote RKKR wrote: WP for injectors is cool, but does it follow the more RISk, more REWARD rule? Maybe if you can full HP revive a heavy and rep him near red dots to reap guardians points, but what if here are no red dots around? which gives you more WP? full HP revive or low HP revive and repping to full HP with a cheap repper? Maybe make it so that MLT injectors have a big cooldown-effect between revives (solves the revive-grieving, we all know which kind of injector those people use) while the PROTO variant has almost no cool-down, maybe allow lower injectors to give more HP aswell. base the WP on the injecter amount so if you use the specialist LP store injector you get 100, use the standard Wyr get 80, 50 for th eadv ect. Rolling with the punches
Pvt Numnutz Prophets of the Velocirapture 1714	Posted - 2014.07.14 16:27:00 - [729] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Quote: * Reduced ADS ISK price You don't really think it's the invisible scouts and corridor camping heavies that get farmed by ADSes and blaster tanks, do you? Foolish biped! Scouts are the tastiest of all morsels! Only takes one missile.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 26	Posted - 2014.07.14 16:50:00 - [730] - Quote RKKR wrote: WP for injectors is cool, but does it follow the more RISk, more REWARD rule? Maybe if you can full HP revive a heavy and rep him near red dots to reap guardians points, but what if here are no red dots around? which gives you more WP? full HP revive or low HP revive and repping to full HP with a cheap repper? Maybe make it so that MLT injectors have a big cooldown-effect between revives (solves the revive-grieving, we all know which kind of injector those people use) while the PROTO variant has almost no cool-down, maybe allow lower injectors to give more HP aswell. No, the call for help button should actually mean something when you press it you shouldnt be able to be revived. Problem solved.

RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 969	Posted - 2014.07.14 16:57:00 - [731] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: RKKR wrote: WP for injectors is cool, but does it follow the more RISk, more REWARD rule? Maybe if you can full HP revive a heavy and rep him near red dots to reap guardians points, but what if here are no red dots around? which gives you more WP? full HP revive or low HP revive and repping to full HP with a cheap repper? Maybe make it so that MLT injectors have a big cooldown-effect between revives (solves the revive-grieving, we all know which kind of injector those people use) while the PROTO variant has almost no cool-down, maybe allow lower injectors to give more HP aswell. No, the call for help button should actually mean something when you press it you shouldnt be able to be revived. Problem solved. Let's remove the injectors all together then, a dead guy has no overview of the battle, he has no clue when he needs to ask for help, you guys are just to impatient to wait for a revive/to much invested with your ego's on KDR (in a unbalanced game )/... If that even happends, I want to choose on which guy my repper lock on, which guy my hives work for, which guy can spawn on my uplink .
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 26	Posted - 2014.07.14 17:01:00 - [732] - Quote RKKR wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: RKKR wrote: WP for injectors is cool, but does it follow the more RISk, more REWARD rule? Maybe if you can full HP revive a heavy and rep him near red dots to reap guardians points, but what if here are no red dots around? which gives you more WP? full HP revive or low HP revive and repping to full HP with a cheap repper? Maybe make it so that MLT injectors have a big cooldown-effect between revives (solves the revive-grieving, we all know which kind of injector those people use) while the PROTO variant has almost no cool-down, maybe allow lower injectors to give more HP aswell. No, the call for help button should actually mean something when you press it you shouldnt be able to be revived. Problem solved. Let's remove the injectors all together then, a dead guy has no overview of the battle, he has no clue when he needs to ask for help, you guys are just to impatient to wait for a revive/to much invested with your ego's on KDR (in a unbalanced game )/... If that even happends, I want to choose on which guy my repper lock on, which guy my hives work for, which guy can spawn on my uplink . I meant when you press cancel you shouldnt be revived.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 26	Posted - 2014.07.14 17:04:00 - [733] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: RKKR wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: RKKR wrote: WP for injectors is cool, but does it follow the more RISk, more REWARD rule? Maybe if you can full HP revive a heavy and rep him near red dots to reap guardians points, but what if here are no red dots around? which gives you more WP? full HP revive or low HP revive and repping to full HP with a cheap repper? Maybe make it so that MLT injectors have a big cooldown-effect between revives (solves the revive-grieving, we all know which kind of injector those people use) while the PROTO variant has almost no cool-down, maybe allow lower injectors to give more HP aswell. No, the call for help button should actually mean something when you press it you shouldnt be able to be revived. Problem solved. Let's remove the injectors all together then, a dead guy has no overview of the battle, he has no clue when he needs to ask for help, you guys are just to impatient to wait for a revive/to much invested with your ego's on KDR (in a unbalanced game )/... If that even happends, I want to choose on which guy my repper lock on, which guy my hives work for, which guy can spawn on my uplink . I meant when you press cancel you shouldnt be revived. Sometimes ill get killed by a tank and im about to come in with a forge and a militia guy with a needle will revive me over and over Right in front of the tank or some enemies, its annoying as hell, you do want this fixed right?
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 969	Posted - 2014.07.14 17:20:00 - [734] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: Sometimes ill get killed by a tank and im about to come in with a forge and a militia guy with a needle will revive me over and over Right in front of the tank or some enemies, its annoying as hell, you do want this fixed right? 1) What didn't you get about the cooldown effect about reviving multiple times? You should have plenty of time to press respawn/cancel/select your other fitting. 2) No, a HAV that isn't able to kill the guy that is reviving you isn't really a threat, a HAV occupied with farming you? Better for my team. 3) see point 2: Doesn't matter if it's a HAV or infantry 4) Yes it's annoying, but thank you for agreeing that it's only those MLT users doing it. 5) Your SOMETIMES doesn't win from inpatient gamer who just want to respawn, injectors will be useless. 6) Nice alt.
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1103	Posted - 2014.07.14 18:38:00 - [735] - Quote heres an idea, since Nanite injectors inject nanite's into you. it is very unreasonable and un-lore like for nanites to be fully loaded back into the nanite injector. so, what if N.I had a cool down of 5-10 seconds, so if you are being farmed, it will be less often, and if you are planning on being revived but there is combat for your allies it will give both people time to revive again or just spawn away. or give an option to accept and deny but that doesnt make since since nanites are supposed to revive you no matter what, since they aren't programmed to listen, but just do stuff. this way it will fix injector farming and will give time for the enemy to kill the farmer so you wont be revived again. SP earned perday/week
smoking the kind RestlessSpirits 43	Posted - 2014.07.14 18:54:00 - [736] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS * Reduced ADS ISK price hi, first I have some questions; When you say "OB WP doubled" do you mean WP rewarded or WP cost to obtain an OB? With the LP increase will that be increased for both win/lose payouts? Can you separate Ambush from Ambush OMS with out a client side patch? Separating them and keeping both game modes would allow players an option to play ambush with or with out mechanized support. In my opinion the ADS needs much love as far a the camera angle on the vehicle and the color of the reticle getting lost with the colors of the ADS, but that's not for here. A major price reduction would be nice, say the same price as a gunlogi/magrugar or cheaper would truly be fair. Thank you CCP Rattati and any of the other CCP folks that have been showing us you care about this game and its supporters, there have been some really good things being fixed on the server side and it is awesome that it has been accomplished with out a client side patch. Keep up the good work and I hope you have a big trick up your sleeve for september, "Please say jet packs"
Mountain Doody 3dge of D4rkness 43	Posted - 2014.07.14 20:49:00 - [737] - Quote Please keep the Amarr Logi sidearm slot, it adds a lot of flavor, who wants all the suits to be the same
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1156	Posted - 2014.07.14 21:19:00 - [738] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: . . Logistics are a support class, their entire role centralizes around supporting their team, so the inevitable question that I have toward all of this hoopla about the sidearms is: Why is the sidearm essential to the Logistics' role? . . Why would a supportive suit want to have a secondary weapon? IN ORDER TO BRING A SUPPORTIVE LIGHT ARM FOR THE TEAM For Grudds sake. Fourth time I have to emphasize this. Supportive weapon like laser, mass driver, swarm launcher or something of the sort. Yea yea with laser you can go 30/0 in an ambush yadi yaddi. Still any one of those weps is a lolfit without a sidearm, no matter how murderous they are in optimal conditions. So than don't bring a support weapon to the fight... You have a Light Weapon slot, that's pretty diverse in and of itself for a main weapon. Saying that you need a sidearm to make use of your support weapon in a support role to be more combat effective, on top of having the capability to have some incredible defense, is asking for everything. IMO, should only be able to choose two out of Offense/Defense/Support. I don't see "because I want to use a support weapon" as a valid reason why we should give any other Logistics a sidearm - the Amarr works well enough with it because it makes some actual sacrifices to have that sidearm. Maybe try using that if you want to roll support weapons. What we certainly don't need is a Caldari Logi with a sidearm, thing is already combat effective without. Focus on the equipment. Encourage Logistics to actually utilize the stuff that they're designed to use. Prime example: Laser Rifle. Who would in their serious mind try their best with only a laser, which by the way is a squad support weapon. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
medomai grey WarRavens Final Resolution. 863	Posted - 2014.07.14 21:49:00 - [739] - Quote There's been a lot more Amarr Logistics resistance to the proposed changes than anticipated. So I came to share my thoughts on the matter. Access to a sidearm makes it feasible to use a wider variety of light class guns because my sidearm could compensate for any weakness a light gun might have; such as lasers, swarm launchers, snipers, etc. So as you'd imagine, I'm quite fond of my sidearm slot. On the other hand, the proposal would take away my sidearm slot in exchange for another equipment slot which I have a fitting bonus for, allowing for more CPU/PG intensive fits, and a/more hi or/and low slot(s) to further customize my suit. Not exactly the horrible trade off so many are making it out to be. If we keep the sidearm, I'll carry on as I always have. If the proposed changes get implemented, I'll adapt and abuse what I got in exchange for the sidearm slot. I'm happy either way. Medium frame EHP is not medium
Bad Heal Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 135	Posted - 2014.07.14 22:01:00 - [740] - Quote Please, for assaults, make the damage mod Efficiency more desirable than tanking.

Xak Arji Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 58	Posted - 2014.07.14 23:26:00 - [741] - Quote Cheydinhal Guard wrote: Xak Arji wrote: I believe that if you even slightly nerf the hmg, you need to slightly nerf the shottie. I see the KDR on average a scout shottie and hmg heavy are about equal. So lower the ROF of the shot gun. Then call it equal. Nerf the shottie? Have you ever even used that thing? You have to be within hugging distance for it to be effective, and the hit detection on that thing is horrid. A RoF nerf would make it even easier for a heavy to turn around and insta-blap a scout who gets behind him. Yea yea, the poor shottie... yadda yadda yadda. That doesn't stop folks from getting crazy kdr's. An adv shotty rips apar any medium suit. And is essen7ally the counter heavy weapon .You have a cloak for crist sake, so the distance issue shouldn't be an issue if youre good. One hit pretty much kills my proto assault with like 700 EHP. Or at least sevierly cripples it to be finished off by a subbie in less than a quarter clip.
Xak Arji Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 58	Posted - 2014.07.14 23:43:00 - [742] - Quote Cheydinhal Guard wrote: Xak Arji wrote: I believe that if you even slightly nerf the hmg, you need to slightly nerf the shottie. I see the KDR on average a scout shottie and hmg heavy are about equal. So lower the ROF of the shot gun. Then call it equal. Nerf the shottie? Have you ever even used that thing? You have to be within hugging distance for it to be effective, and the hit detection on that thing is horrid. A RoF nerf would make it even easier for a heavy to turn around and insta-blap a scout who gets behind him. Yea yea, the poor shottie... yadda yadda yadda. That doesn't stop folks from getting crazy kdr's. An adv shotty rips apart any medium suit. And is essenally the counter heavy weapon .You have a cloak for crist sake, so the distance issue shouldn't be an issue if youre good. One hit pretty much kills my proto assault with like 700 EHP. Or at least sevierly cripples it to be finished off by a subbie in less than a quarter clip.
Xak Arji Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 58	Posted - 2014.07.15 00:00:00 - [743] - Quote Also, why do we need to change logi at all? There is nothing wrong with them. The focus needs to be an assaut suit adjustment, most likely centered on DPS.
Cheydinhal Guard Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 128	Posted - 2014.07.15 00:29:00 - [744] - Quote Xak Arji wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: Xak Arji wrote: I believe that if you even slightly nerf the hmg, you need to slightly nerf the shottie. I see the KDR on average a scout shottie and hmg heavy are about equal. So lower the ROF of the shot gun. Then call it equal. Nerf the shottie? Have you ever even used that thing? You have to be within hugging distance for it to be effective, and the hit detection on that thing is horrid. A RoF nerf would make it even easier for a heavy to turn around and insta-blap a scout who gets behind him. Yea yea, the poor shottie... yadda yadda yadda. That doesn't stop folks from getting crazy kdr's. An adv shotty rips apar any medium suit. And is essen7ally the counter heavy weapon .You have a cloak for crist sake, so the distance issue shouldn't be an issue if youre good. One hit pretty much kills my proto assault with like 700 EHP. Or at least sevierly cripples it to be finished off by a subbie in less than a quarter clip. The cloak doesn't make you invisible. On top of that the dampening bonuses have been nerfed to hell. A big chunk of the playerbase has adapted to cloaks, you should too. The shotgun is supposed to be deadly at close ranges, that's the point. I have a proposal. Spec into a scout suit and the shotgun and use that for a month. You'll see it's not as easy as it looks. You filthy amarr, with your golden guns and your sparkling merc quarters....Curse you.. GalLogi to the end
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1114	Posted - 2014.07.15 01:38:00 - [745] - Quote medomai grey wrote: There's been a lot more Amarr Logistics resistance to the proposed changes than anticipated. So I came to share my thoughts on the matter. Access to a sidearm makes it feasible to use a wider variety of light class guns because my sidearm could compensate for any weakness a light gun might have; such as lasers, swarm launchers, snipers, etc. So as you'd imagine, I'm quite fond of my sidearm slot. On the other hand, the proposal would take away my sidearm slot in exchange for another equipment slot which I have a fitting bonus for, allowing for more CPU/PG intensive fits, and a/more hi or/and low slot(s) to further customize my suit. Not exactly the horrible trade off so many are making it out to be. If we keep the sidearm, I'll carry on as I always have. If the proposed changes get implemented, I'll adapt and abuse what I got in exchange for the sidearm slot. I'm happy either way. the amarr logi is the only combat logi, so it deserves a side arm in trade for 1 less equipment and low or high slot SP earned perday/week
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3780	Posted - 2014.07.15 02:17:00 - [746] - Quote Xak Arji wrote: Also, why do we need to change logi at all? There is nothing wrong with them. The focus needs to be an assaut suit adjustment, most likely centered on DPS. The thought is, work on both medium frames simultaneously. It does make a lot of sense, as both are in pretty rough spots right now. If they intent to normalize slot counts across the 2 classes (which also makes some sense), it would be pointless to do one without the other. As for the Amarr logi, I'm not sure that an equipment slot AND a low (primary tank) slot is a fair trade for the sidearm. 1 equipment slot seems fairly equitable to me. At worst, an equipment slot and a high slot makes more sense than a low. Just like the Amarr assault(well, until bravo), the high/low slot balance makes no sense considering the way the suit is otherwise intended/set up, as a high buffer armor tanking suit. It's slow and has no inherent reps like the Gallente, and doesn't have the shield regen of the Caldari or Minmatar, so WTF are you supposed to do with it? The only choice is to brick tank since the damage mod nerf. And that's lame. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Xak Arji Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 58	Posted - 2014.07.15 02:31:00 - [747] - Quote Cheydinhal Guard wrote: Xak Arji wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: Xak Arji wrote: I believe that if you even slightly nerf the hmg, you need to slightly nerf the shottie. I see the KDR on average a scout shottie and hmg heavy are about equal. So lower the ROF of the shot gun. Then call it equal. Nerf the shottie? Have you ever even used that thing? You have to be within hugging distance for it to be effective, and the hit detection on that thing is horrid. A RoF nerf would make it even easier for a heavy to turn around and insta-blap a scout who gets behind him. Yea yea, the poor shottie... yadda yadda yadda. That doesn't stop folks from getting crazy kdr's. An adv shotty rips apar any medium suit. And is essen7ally the counter heavy weapon .You have a cloak for crist sake, so the distance issue shouldn't be an issue if youre good. One hit pretty much kills my proto assault with like 700 EHP. Or at least sevierly cripples it to be finished off by a subbie in less than a quarter clip. The cloak doesn't make you invisible. On top of that the dampening bonuses have been nerfed to hell. A big chunk of the playerbase has adapted to cloaks, you should too. The shotgun is supposed to be deadly at close ranges, that's the point. I have a proposal. Spec into a scout suit and the shotgun and use that for a month. You'll see it's not as easy as it looks. I HAVE specced into the scout/shot gun. Give a heavy a go. You'll see the are different play styles, buton almost equal terms, listen. All I'm saying is the KDR of shot gun vs heavy is usually the same of equally skilled players. If not the shot gunner has more kills about 60 percent of the time. If one gets adjusted, so does the other.
Cheydinhal Guard Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 128	Posted - 2014.07.15 03:22:00 - [748] - Quote Xak Arji wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: Xak Arji wrote: Cheydinhal Guard wrote: Xak Arji wrote: I believe that if you even slightly nerf the hmg, you need to slightly nerf the shottie. I see the KDR on average a scout shottie and hmg heavy are about equal. So lower the ROF of the shot gun. Then call it equal. Nerf the shottie? Have you ever even used that thing? You have to be within hugging distance for it to be effective, and the hit detection on that thing is horrid. A RoF nerf would make it even easier for a heavy to turn around and insta-blap a scout who gets behind him. Yea yea, the poor shottie... yadda yadda yadda. That doesn't stop folks from getting crazy kdr's. An adv shotty rips apar any medium suit. And is essen7ally the counter heavy weapon .You have a cloak for crist sake, so the distance issue shouldn't be an issue if youre good. One hit pretty much kills my proto assault with like 700 EHP. Or at least sevierly cripples it to be finished off by a subbie in less than a quarter clip. The cloak doesn't make you invisible. On top of that the dampening bonuses have been nerfed to hell. A big chunk of the playerbase has adapted to cloaks, you should too. The shotgun is supposed to be deadly at close ranges, that's the point. I have a proposal. Spec into a scout suit and the shotgun and use that for a month. You'll see it's not as easy as it looks. I HAVE specced into the scout/shot gun. Give a heavy a go. You'll see the are different play styles, buton almost equal terms, listen. All I'm saying is the KDR of shot gun vs heavy is usually the same of equally skilled players. If not the shot gunner has more kills about 60 percent of the time. If one gets adjusted, so does the other. The KDR of a shotgun shotgun scout and a heavy are usually the same? Right i'll believe that when i see scouts mowing down 2-3 people at a time over and over again. Anyway the point is a RoF nerf would put the shotgun in Flaylock land. There goes the best counter to heavies. You filthy amarr, with your golden guns and your sparkling merc quarters....Curse you.. GalLogi to the end
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 345	Posted - 2014.07.15 03:26:00 - [749] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Xak Arji wrote: Also, why do we need to change logi at all? There is nothing wrong with them. The focus needs to be an assaut suit adjustment, most likely centered on DPS. The thought is, work on both medium frames simultaneously. It does make a lot of sense, as both are in pretty rough spots right now. If they intent to normalize slot counts across the 2 classes (which also makes some sense), it would be pointless to do one without the other. As for the Amarr logi, I'm not sure that an equipment slot AND a low (primary tank) slot is a fair trade for the sidearm. 1 equipment slot seems fairly equitable to me. At worst, an equipment slot and a high slot makes more sense than a low. Just like the Amarr assault(well, until bravo), the high/low slot balance makes no sense considering the way the suit is otherwise intended/set up, as a high buffer armor tanking suit. It's slow and has no inherent reps like the Gallente, and doesn't have the shield regen of the Caldari or Minmatar, so WTF are you supposed to do with it? The only choice is to brick tank since the damage mod nerf. And that's lame. I'll tell you what you can do with it... (Hehehe. You asked.) One sidearm = one equipment... Done. Correct proto Amarr high/low slots to 5/3 or 3/5 (don't care which)... Done. Fix Amarr uplink bonus ending on death flaw. As long as you stay in an Amarr suit, your racial bonus should continue... Done. Not sure what all the hassle is. Git 'er dun! PS - Anti-slayer Logi prevention: lower Logi CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF all the equipment slots are filled. PPS - Assault un-neutering program: lower Assault CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF all the high and low slots are filled. PPPS - Scout re-leveling initiative: lower Scout CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF a cloak and (at least) one ewar module are used. (Also, remove inherent armour repair from Gallente.) Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1357	Posted - 2014.07.15 03:52:00 - [750] - Quote For Rattati: I know earlier you mentioned a speed buff for minmitar scouts, and i was interested in knowing whether or not this would actually happen. Thanks! "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand

bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 346	Posted - 2014.07.15 04:06:00 - [751] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: For Rattati: I know earlier you mentioned a speed buff for minmitar scouts, and i was interested in knowing whether or not this would actually happen. Thanks! With no ewar bonuses, MinScout speed advantage needs to be more significant than it is currently. Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 346	Posted - 2014.07.15 04:08:00 - [752] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: For Rattati: I know earlier you mentioned a speed buff for minmitar scouts, and i was interested in knowing whether or not this would actually happen. Thanks! With no ewar bonuses, MinScout speed advantage needs to be more significant than it is currently. What the hell... Might as well make MinLogi and MinMando faster while you're at it... Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
Vesta Opalus Kang Lo Holding 5	Posted - 2014.07.15 04:16:00 - [753] - Quote Imma complain about some stuff now, anything not mentioned is either ok or neutral in my book: CCP Rattati wrote: All, * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Disabling passive Scan sharing with squads #1: Low radius scans are useless, if its a shotgun stealther you will die before you notice them on you, if its not a shotgun stealther you will die before they get into your scan range at all. #2: Disabling passive scans kinda defeats the purpose of passive scanning fits. On equal footing (the enemy scout isnt a ****); there is no scan fitting which will actually counter the enemy scout. If I am dedicated to scanning enough to see the enemy scout, the enemy scout will have dramatically higher hp/damage output, and I will die. If I am running a low scan suit, I cant see the enemy scout, and I will die. If its a gallente scout, theres a good chance I will both not be able to scan the enemy suit AND have less hp/damage output, and I will die. Thats to say nothing of non-scout suits, which will uniformly wreck your if they see you because a good squad supporting scan setup will leave you with 3 or less high slots to work with to gain any kind of survivability or offensive capability. Thats the true state of passive scanning right there. If you remove scan sharing you remove the one spoiler to the above formula: that your teamates can see and assist you in countering incoming guys. If you do remove passive scan sharing please consider giving us the ability to actually scan any suit(in fact just consider giving us that anyway, its pretty rediculous that cloaking and dampeners, which make you nearly to completely invisible depending on lighting have no mechanics based counter in the game). Theres no reason the caldari scout shouldnt be able to scan any enemy suit, since it makes you extremely vulnerable to run a fit that can do it, unlike stealth fittings, which trade a little survivability for the massive tactical advantage of being *** invisible. In addition, I would suggest giving amar something besides scanning, but honestly whatever it takes to give them something to do. CCP Rattati wrote:** * OB WP doubled Whats the point? Are you trying to make it so small squads cant get orbitals? Well this will do it! If you are trying to stop logi/heavy blob squads from getting 6 orbitals a game, this isnt going to do a very good job of it. If you want to fix **** tons of orbitals from large proto stomp squads, try doing something like lowering the triage cap so they cant farm absurd points from healing their heavies. I dont know what you are trying to do here, but I hope you arent trying to make it impossible for 2/3 man squads to get an orbital or two a game, because large squads already have enough advantages.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3783	Posted - 2014.07.15 04:29:00 - [754] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Xak Arji wrote: Also, why do we need to change logi at all? There is nothing wrong with them. The focus needs to be an assaut suit adjustment, most likely centered on DPS. The thought is, work on both medium frames simultaneously. It does make a lot of sense, as both are in pretty rough spots right now. If they intent to normalize slot counts across the 2 classes (which also makes some sense), it would be pointless to do one without the other. As for the Amarr logi, I'm not sure that an equipment slot AND a low (primary tank) slot is a fair trade for the sidearm. 1 equipment slot seems fairly equitable to me. At worst, an equipment slot and a high slot makes more sense than a low. Just like the Amarr assault(well, until bravo), the high/low slot balance makes no sense considering the way the suit is otherwise intended/set up, as a high buffer armor tanking suit. It's slow and has no inherent reps like the Gallente, and doesn't have the shield regen of the Caldari or Minmatar, so WTF are you supposed to do with it? The only choice is to brick tank since the damage mod nerf. And that's lame. I'll tell you what you can do with it... (Hehehe. You asked.) One sidearm = one equipment... Done. Correct proto Amarr high/low slots to 5/3 or 3/5 (don't care which)... Done. Fix Amarr uplink bonus ending on death flaw. As long as you stay in an Amarr suit, your racial bonus should continue... Done. Not sure what all the hassle is. Git 'er dun! PS - Anti-slayer Logi prevention: lower Logi CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF all the equipment slots are filled. PPS - Assault un-neutering program: lower Assault CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF all the high and low slots are filled. PPPS - Scout re-leveling initiative: lower Scout CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF a cloak and (at least) one ewar module are used. (Also, remove inherent armour repair from Gallente.) Sounds good to me, with the exception of the underlined sections. Here's why, in reverse order: 1) Amarr suits should have more low slots than high, so 3/5. 2) Gallente are supposed to be based on Armor regen. 3 might be too high, but you can't take it completely away. 3) You've oversimplified the maths on the anti-killer bee part: - Requiring all the equip slots to be filled sounds good but is less effective than you think; compact hives are great for slayers and use minimal fitting resources. That said, I've pushed the idea for close to a year now, so I don't disagree with it, just realize that the true impact will be fairly small. - Dropping the CPU/PG by 10% and increase the fitting bonus by 10% is actually a big time nerf. Not all the CPU/PG of the suit is used up by equipment, so the math is never this easy: To repeat an example I've used a few times, picture a suit with 300 CPU. Typically 200 would be used for modules/weapon, and 100 probably for equipment (this information is based on the low-equipment Amarr logi and basically comes from my arse; it may not be completely accurate but gets the point across). If you were to drop the suit CPU by 10% and increase the fit bonus by 10%, you lose 30 CPU total but only save 10 CPU from the new bonus. It becomes complicated in that, since not all the suits have the same amount of equipment slots, you can't easily determine what the best combination of fitting power reduction and fitting bonus increase would be (this is basically why CCP wants to equalize the slot counts and take away the Amarr sidearm, to make this kind of balance proposition easier). What you need to do is make a large sample of multiple fittings from each race, and determine the ratio of CPU/PG total vs that devoted to equipment. Averaging that ratio you can then say, well, if we are going to decrease the total by 10%, we need to increase the fitting bonus by x, which, using my above example, would be 30% since the ratio is 3:1. Hopefully they would choose to overshoot the bonus. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 11855	Posted - 2014.07.15 04:34:00 - [755] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: 2) Gallente are supposed to be based on Armor regen. 3 might be too high, but you can't take it completely away. Okay lets not get ahead of ourselves....... they aren't based on it....they are just pretty good at it. It's simplifying things too much to suggest that this defines them...... they are armour tankers that use Blasters and have some pretty good drone ships.... but at its core they are just armour tankers. "Your Faith stands as a shield for the Faithful, and you are one of His Angels." - Soren Tyrhannos to Templar Ouryon
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 346	Posted - 2014.07.15 04:53:00 - [756] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: bogeyman m wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Xak Arji wrote: Also, why do we need to change logi at all? There is nothing wrong with them. The focus needs to be an assaut suit adjustment, most likely centered on DPS. The thought is, work on both medium frames simultaneously. It does make a lot of sense, as both are in pretty rough spots right now. If they intent to normalize slot counts across the 2 classes (which also makes some sense), it would be pointless to do one without the other. As for the Amarr logi, I'm not sure that an equipment slot AND a low (primary tank) slot is a fair trade for the sidearm. 1 equipment slot seems fairly equitable to me. At worst, an equipment slot and a high slot makes more sense than a low. Just like the Amarr assault(well, until bravo), the high/low slot balance makes no sense considering the way the suit is otherwise intended/set up, as a high buffer armor tanking suit. It's slow and has no inherent reps like the Gallente, and doesn't have the shield regen of the Caldari or Minmatar, so WTF are you supposed to do with it? The only choice is to brick tank since the damage mod nerf. And that's lame. I'll tell you what you can do with it... (Hehehe. You asked.) One sidearm = one equipment... Done. Correct proto Amarr high/low slots to 5/3 or 3/5 (don't care which)... Done. Fix Amarr uplink bonus ending on death flaw. As long as you stay in an Amarr suit, your racial bonus should continue... Done. Not sure what all the hassle is. Git 'er dun! PS - Anti-slayer Logi prevention: lower Logi CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF all the equipment slots are filled. PPS - Assault un-neutering program: lower Assault CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF all the high and low slots are filled. PPPS - Scout re-leveling initiative: lower Scout CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF a cloak and (at least) one ewar module are used. (Also, remove inherent armour repair from Gallente.) Sounds good to me, with the exception of the underlined sections. Here's why, in reverse order: 1) Amarr suits should have more low slots than high, so 3/5. 2) Gallente are supposed to be based on Armor regen. 3 might be too high, but you can't take it completely away. 3) You've oversimplified the maths on the anti-killer bee part: - Requiring all the equip slots to be filled sounds good but is less effective than you think; compact hives are great for slayers and use minimal fitting resources. That said, I've pushed the idea for close to a year now, so I don't disagree with it, just realize that the true impact will be fairly small. - Dropping the CPU/PG by 10% and increase the fitting bonus by 10% is actually a big time nerf. Not all the CPU/PG of the suit is used up by equipment, so the math is never this easy: To repeat an example I've used a few times, picture a suit with 300 CPU. Typically 200 would be used for modules/weapon, and 100 probably for equipment (this information is based on the low-equipment Amarr logi and basically comes from my arse; it may not be completely accurate but gets the point across). If you were to drop the suit CPU by 10% and increase the fit bonus by 10%, you lose 30 CPU total but only save 10 CPU from the new bonus. It becomes complicated in that, since not all the suits have the same amount of equipment slots, you can't easily determine what the best combination of fitting power reduction and fitting bonus increase would be (this is basically why CCP wants to equalize the slot counts and take away the Amarr sidearm, to make this kind of balance proposition easier). What you need to do is make a large sample of multiple fittings from each race, and determine the ratio of CPU/PG total vs that devoted to equipment. Averaging that ratio you can then say, well, if we are going to decrease the total by 10%, we need to increase the fitting bonus by x, which, using my above example, would be 30% since the ratio is 3:1. Hopefully they would choose to overshoot the bonus. Okay... 1) Amarr gets 3/5 plus 3 equip plus sidearm. Sold! 2) Gallente are alpha-armour tankers with lots of lows to fit repair mods... They don't need inherent repair. Add bonus to repair mods if needed. 3) Maths... Reduce total CPU/PG 10% and increase equipment bonus by 30% (or 25%, whatever works). All fixed. I don't see why this stuff is so difficult for folks... Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
Dj grammer New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 282	Posted - 2014.07.15 06:39:00 - [757] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: PS - Anti-slayer Logi prevention: lower Logi CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF all the equipment slots are filled. How about focusing on buffing the assault class before doing any further damage to logistics? if you are downgrading logistics based off of logi slayers then you need to stop living in the past. There really has not been an abundance of logi slayers since post 1.7 or even better since post 1.6. Read the LogiBro guide before jumping the gun. why ccp?
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 282	Posted - 2014.07.15 10:50:00 - [758] - Quote Dj grammer wrote: bogeyman m wrote: PS - Anti-slayer Logi prevention: lower Logi CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF all the equipment slots are filled. How about focusing on buffing the assault class before doing any further damage to logistics? if you are downgrading logistics based off of logi slayers then you need to stop living in the past. There really has not been an abundance of logi slayers since post 1.7 or even better since post 1.6. Read the LogiBro guide before jumping the gun. This man right frickin here gets it. Please leave my logi alone. It's fine. The only reason anyone would cry about it is if it doesn't have enough CPU/PG, or if they suck and are mad both their LW and sidearm emptied before I killed them with my Six Kin Combat Rifle. From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men. CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
Nirwanda Vaughns 426th Infantry 646	Posted - 2014.07.15 11:35:00 - [759] - Quote Also. how hard would it be to actually add a line of code to allow us to sell assets (ISK items not AUR) back to the npc market for a fixed percentage of the base price? so even if we just get half the base price back it would at least allow us to clear out our hangars a bit and put the isk towards something we're actually going to use and it may also help bring more people into FW as the salvage can be recycled. there are many of us vets whos hangars are jam packed with junk just sitting there. and as for balancing suits and weapons. i've been harping on about this since game was released but why not have the resistances to shield/armor that we have in eve for the drop suits and have weapons have the same damage profiles too. it would allow for far more fine tuning between suit classes and weapon balance Rolling with the punches
Chuck Nurris DCLXVI Enlightened Infantries Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 26	Posted - 2014.07.15 11:53:00 - [760] - Quote Just my thoughts on the ADS price drop. Bad idea. Very bad idea, they are already swarming pub matches, yesterday a few matches had at least 6 in the air, some ADS, others regular DS' The difference was that the ADS' simply dominated everything, ran into enemy red line, and out again unimpeded. Which ever team gets two or three of those in the air first, wins by default 90% of the time.

John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3784	Posted - 2014.07.15 11:59:00 - [761] - Quote True Adamance wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: 2) Gallente are supposed to be based on Armor regen. 3 might be too high, but you can't take it completely away. Okay lets not get ahead of ourselves....... they aren't based on it....they are just pretty good at it. It's simplifying things too much to suggest that this defines them...... they are armour tankers that use Blasters and have some pretty good drone ships.... but at its core they are just armour tankers. Alright, alright. We all know I don't play eve. Edit made. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 625	Posted - 2014.07.15 20:03:00 - [762] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: bogeyman m wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Xak Arji wrote: Also, why do we need to change logi at all? There is nothing wrong with them. The focus needs to be an assaut suit adjustment, most likely centered on DPS. The thought is, work on both medium frames simultaneously. It does make a lot of sense, as both are in pretty rough spots right now. If they intent to normalize slot counts across the 2 classes (which also makes some sense), it would be pointless to do one without the other. As for the Amarr logi, I'm not sure that an equipment slot AND a low (primary tank) slot is a fair trade for the sidearm. 1 equipment slot seems fairly equitable to me. At worst, an equipment slot and a high slot makes more sense than a low. Just like the Amarr assault(well, until bravo), the high/low slot balance makes no sense considering the way the suit is otherwise intended/set up, as a high buffer armor tanking suit. It's slow and has no inherent reps like the Gallente, and doesn't have the shield regen of the Caldari or Minmatar, so WTF are you supposed to do with it? The only choice is to brick tank since the damage mod nerf. And that's lame. I'll tell you what you can do with it... (Hehehe. You asked.) One sidearm = one equipment... Done. Correct proto Amarr high/low slots to 5/3 or 3/5 (don't care which)... Done. Fix Amarr uplink bonus ending on death flaw. As long as you stay in an Amarr suit, your racial bonus should continue... Done. Not sure what all the hassle is. Git 'er dun! PS - Anti-slayer Logi prevention: lower Logi CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF all the equipment slots are filled. PPS - Assault un-neutering program: lower Assault CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF all the high and low slots are filled. PPPS - Scout re-leveling initiative: lower Scout CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF a cloak and (at least) one ewar module are used. (Also, remove inherent armour repair from Gallente.) Sounds good to me, with the exception of the underlined sections. Here's why, in reverse order: 1) Amarr suits should have more low slots than high, so 3/5. 2) Gallente are supposed to be based on Armor regen. 3 might be too high, but you can't take it completely away. 3) You've oversimplified the maths on the anti-killer bee part: - Requiring all the equip slots to be filled sounds good but is less effective than you think; compact hives are great for slayers and use minimal fitting resources. That said, I've pushed the idea for close to a year now, so I don't disagree with it, just realize that the true impact will be fairly small. - Dropping the CPU/PG by 10% and increase the fitting bonus by 10% is actually a big time nerf. Not all the CPU/PG of the suit is used up by equipment, so the math is never this easy: To repeat an example I've used a few times, picture a suit with 300 CPU. Typically 200 would be used for modules/weapon, and 100 probably for equipment (this information is based on the low-equipment Amarr logi and basically comes from my arse; it may not be completely accurate but gets the point across). If you were to drop the suit CPU by 10% and increase the fit bonus by 10%, you lose 30 CPU total but only save 10 CPU from the new bonus. It becomes complicated in that, since not all the suits have the same amount of equipment slots, you can't easily determine what the best combination of fitting power reduction and fitting bonus increase would be (this is basically why CCP wants to equalize the slot counts and take away the Amarr sidearm, to make this kind of balance proposition easier). What you need to do is make a large sample of multiple fittings from each race, and determine the ratio of CPU/PG total vs that devoted to equipment. Averaging that ratio you can then say, well, if we are going to decrease the total by 10%, we need to increase the fitting bonus by x, which, using my above example, would be 30% since the ratio is 3:1. Hopefully they would choose to overshoot the bonus. Okay... 1) Amarr gets 3/5 plus 3 equip plus sidearm. Sold! 2) Gallente are alpha-armour tankers with lots of lows to fit repair mods... They don't need inherent repair. Add bonus to repair mods if needed. 3) Maths... Reduce total CPU/PG 10% and increase equipment bonus by 30% (or 25%, whatever works). All fixed. I don't see why this stuff is so difficult for folks... I think you guys nailed it. While there should be a great amount of caution in adjusting PG/CPU if it can be equalized with the MED FRAME ASSAULTS so that the only real difference is the base stats and bonuses there would be a much greater impediment to creating a Slayer Logi - if that is indeed the concern. What I'm envisioning is having the tiers of MED Frames match in PG/CPU and H/L slots but having the class and skill bonuses making them able to fit as we do now. It might have to be ridiculous, like a 75% or 90% total to equipment PG/CPU cost but I believe it will force a decision point. I see a logi and assault from the same tier being able to equip all of the same H/L slot modules and still have the same remaining PG/CPU - or very close. But then adding the same tier equipment to the logi and adding the same tier Weapons to the Assault now leave the suits nearly maxed out - allowing both some fitting room for EQ for the Assault and a weapon for the Logi (and sidearm if Amarr). Perhaps I will do some fittings tonight and come back with some numbers, If anyone else has some insight I would appreciate some direction if this has already been done. I will be returning in another 7 Hours. While I will do what I can It will be up to the Devs to use it or not, but I like this direction. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
Seigfried Warheit Opus Arcana 346	Posted - 2014.07.16 02:25:00 - [763] - Quote Is the slight hmg heat build up gonna count for all variants of the hmg? I use a DS to hump things...... I am a prof. V scrub. I have no honor. c[_] Change spare change anyone
lee corwood Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 911	Posted - 2014.07.16 06:29:00 - [764] - Quote Chuck Nurris DCLXVI wrote: Just my thoughts on the ADS price drop. Bad idea. Very bad idea, they are already swarming pub matches, yesterday a few matches had at least 6 in the air, some ADS, others regular DS' The difference was that the ADS' simply dominated everything, ran into enemy red line, and out again unimpeded. Which ever team gets two or three of those in the air first, wins by default 90% of the time. Disagree. I am not a vehicle user at all. While yes, it does take a bit of time to reach the skillpoints necessary, my ADV Commando suit with my proto Swarmers keeps ADS/DS pilots at bay. It demolishes DS but only keeps ADS away. I got a combat rifle on there to save me against other infantry (tho infantry still kill me the most often) and a nanohive to keep my Swarmer filled. I most never kill an ADS but I get 75 points for damage repeatedly and constantly keep that guy running so he can't do his job. His fit is 400,000 isk. Mine suit is 78,000 isk. Do I think its fair I can't kill him? You bet. Now, the argument here is, "well what if I don't have proto-QQ here". I feel you. I really do, but that is not the fault of the tool or the vehicle. It is the fault of a **** poor player base due to poor game management so we can't properly separate our players based on skill. In a perfect world, your militia swarmers wouldn't have to be against triple stacked vehicles with proto skills. But that is not a reason to try and deny price decrease to a whole class. Minmatar Logisis \| Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect Dark Taboo 1507	Posted - 2014.07.16 11:25:00 - [765] - Quote RKKR wrote: ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: RKKR wrote: WP for injectors is cool, but does it follow the more RISk, more REWARD rule? Maybe if you can full HP revive a heavy and rep him near red dots to reap guardians points, but what if here are no red dots around? which gives you more WP? full HP revive or low HP revive and repping to full HP with a cheap repper? Maybe make it so that MLT injectors have a big cooldown-effect between revives (solves the revive-grieving, we all know which kind of injector those people use) while the PROTO variant has almost no cool-down, maybe allow lower injectors to give more HP aswell. No, the call for help button should actually mean something when you press it you shouldnt be able to be revived. Problem solved. Let's remove the injectors all together then Agreed, let's do this instead.
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect Dark Taboo 1508	Posted - 2014.07.16 11:34:00 - [766] - Quote Chuck Nurris DCLXVI wrote: Just my thoughts on the ADS price drop. Bad idea. Very bad idea, they are already swarming pub matches, yesterday a few matches had at least 6 in the air, some ADS, others regular DS' The difference was that the ADS' simply dominated everything, ran into enemy red line, and out again unimpeded. Which ever team gets two or three of those in the air first, wins by default 90% of the time. Exactly. An ADS is a license to farm kills. It effortlessly wrecks infantry and vehicles alike, and has no counters... except another DS. The ONLY limiting factor is the price. Remove that and I see most games being decided by ADS spam. Infantry would do best to stay in the MCC or not spawn at all so they at least don't hurt the clone count.
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 300	Posted - 2014.07.16 11:36:00 - [767] - Quote Get a group of buddies and farm WP? It's sure as hell what I'm gonna do From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men. CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 794	Posted - 2014.07.16 11:40:00 - [768] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Chuck Nurris DCLXVI wrote: Just my thoughts on the ADS price drop. Bad idea. Very bad idea, they are already swarming pub matches, yesterday a few matches had at least 6 in the air, some ADS, others regular DS' The difference was that the ADS' simply dominated everything, ran into enemy red line, and out again unimpeded. Which ever team gets two or three of those in the air first, wins by default 90% of the time. Exactly. An ADS is a license to farm kills. It effortlessly wrecks infantry and vehicles alike, and has no counters... except another DS. The ONLY limiting factor is the price. Remove that and I see most games being decided by ADS spam. Infantry would do best to stay in the MCC or not spawn at all so they at least don't hurt the clone count. The counter to one ADS are two forgegunners. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect Dark Taboo 1509	Posted - 2014.07.16 11:44:00 - [769] - Quote lee corwood wrote: Chuck Nurris DCLXVI wrote: Just my thoughts on the ADS price drop. Bad idea. Very bad idea, they are already swarming pub matches, yesterday a few matches had at least 6 in the air, some ADS, others regular DS' The difference was that the ADS' simply dominated everything, ran into enemy red line, and out again unimpeded. Which ever team gets two or three of those in the air first, wins by default 90% of the time. Disagree. I am not a vehicle user at all. While yes, it does take a bit of time to reach the skillpoints necessary, my ADV Commando suit with my proto Swarmers keeps ADS/DS pilots at bay. It demolishes DS but only keeps ADS away. I got a combat rifle on there to save me against other infantry (tho infantry still kill me the most often) and a nanohive to keep my Swarmer filled. I most never kill an ADS but I get 75 points for damage repeatedly and constantly keep that guy running so he can't do his job. His fit is 400,000 isk. Mine suit is 78,000 isk. Do I think its fair I can't kill him? You bet. Now, the argument here is, "well what if I don't have proto-QQ here". I feel you. I really do, but that is not the fault of the tool or the vehicle. It is the fault of a **** poor player base due to poor game management so we can't properly separate our players based on skill. In a perfect world, your militia swarmers wouldn't have to be against triple stacked vehicles with proto skills. But that is not a reason to try and deny price decrease to a whole class. Players that play like this go 0-10 if they're bad, 2-7 if they're average, 5-5 if they're good. Maybe you will restrict the ADS to 10-0 instead of 20-0 or 30-0, but the team with the ADS still gets a large clone count advantage over the team that uses the supposed 'counter'. And I'm seeing a lot of dominations and even skirmishes going to clones recently. Surely there should be some kind of drawback to a role that brings a decisive advantage even if counters are brought to the table?
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect Dark Taboo 1509	Posted - 2014.07.16 11:52:00 - [770] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Chuck Nurris DCLXVI wrote: Just my thoughts on the ADS price drop. Bad idea. Very bad idea, they are already swarming pub matches, yesterday a few matches had at least 6 in the air, some ADS, others regular DS' The difference was that the ADS' simply dominated everything, ran into enemy red line, and out again unimpeded. Which ever team gets two or three of those in the air first, wins by default 90% of the time. Exactly. An ADS is a license to farm kills. It effortlessly wrecks infantry and vehicles alike, and has no counters... except another DS. The ONLY limiting factor is the price. Remove that and I see most games being decided by ADS spam. Infantry would do best to stay in the MCC or not spawn at all so they at least don't hurt the clone count. The counter to one ADS are two forgegunners. Knew it wouldn't be long before someone wheeled out the famous 'SPKR4THEDEAD argument'...

The-Errorist SVER True Blood 794	Posted - 2014.07.16 11:56:00 - [771] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Chuck Nurris DCLXVI wrote: ... ... The counter to one ADS are two forgegunners. Knew it wouldn't be long before someone wheeled out the famous 'SPKR4THEDEAD argument'... I don't know what you're referring to, but seriously, two forgegunners counters one ADS pretty well. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 307	Posted - 2014.07.16 12:00:00 - [772] - Quote 1 is all you need. Just wait till the pilot gets cocky, then you strike From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men. CEO of G0DS AM0NG MEN
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 795	Posted - 2014.07.16 12:00:00 - [773] - Quote Was fixing the racial suit slot layouts addressed? Amarr - Most low slots Gallente - High number of low slots Caldari - Most high slots Minmatar - Even to 1 more high slot than low For example Assault's lots layout: Highs/Lows - (Previous layout) Amarr - 2H 5L - (3H 4L) Gallente - 2H 5L OR 3H 4L - (Same)/- Caldari - 5H 2L - (4H 3L) Minmatar - 4H 3L - (5H 2L) Logistics' slots layout: Highs/Lows/Equipment/Sidearm - (Previous layout) Amarr - 3H 5L 3E 1S - (Same) Gallente - 3H 5L 4E 0S - (Same) Caldari - 5H 3L 4E 0S - (5H 4L 4E 0S) Minmatar - 4H 4L 4E 0S - (Same) Sentinel's lots layout: Highs/Lows - (Previous layout) Amarr - 1H 4L (2H 3L) Gallente - 1H 4L OR 2H 3L - (Same)/- Caldari - 3H 1L - (Same) Minmatar - 3H 2L - (Same) MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect Dark Taboo 1509	Posted - 2014.07.16 12:10:00 - [774] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Chuck Nurris DCLXVI wrote: ... ... The counter to one ADS are two forgegunners. Knew it wouldn't be long before someone wheeled out the famous 'SPKR4THEDEAD argument'... I don't know what you're referring to, but seriously, two forgegunners counters one ADS pretty well. SPKR is an infamously bad tanker and defender of 1.7 tanks. His favourite argument is/was 'it should take 2/3/4/16 infantry to counter my vehicle because I'm a special pony and I deserve Godmode'. For obvious reasons this 'argument' went out of fashion, until now it seems...
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 795	Posted - 2014.07.16 12:14:00 - [775] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: The-Errorist wrote: The counter to one ADS are two forgegunners. Knew it wouldn't be long before someone wheeled out the famous 'SPKR4THEDEAD argument'... I don't know what you're referring to, but seriously, two forgegunners counters one ADS pretty well. SPKR is an infamously bad tanker and defender of 1.7 tanks. His favourite argument is/was 'it should take 2/3/4/16 infantry to counter my vehicle because I'm a special pony and I deserve Godmode'. For obvious reasons this 'argument' went out of fashion, until now it seems... I wasn't saying that it should take 2 forgegunners to counter an ADS, I was just stating how it is, and the reason I did so was because you previously stated that there are zero counters to an ADS besides another ADS. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect Dark Taboo 1510	Posted - 2014.07.16 12:26:00 - [776] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: The-Errorist wrote: The counter to one ADS are two forgegunners. Knew it wouldn't be long before someone wheeled out the famous 'SPKR4THEDEAD argument'... I don't know what you're referring to, but seriously, two forgegunners counters one ADS pretty well. SPKR is an infamously bad tanker and defender of 1.7 tanks. His favourite argument is/was 'it should take 2/3/4/16 infantry to counter my vehicle because I'm a special pony and I deserve Godmode'. For obvious reasons this 'argument' went out of fashion, until now it seems... I wasn't saying that it should take 2 forgegunners to counter an ADS, I was just stating how it is, and the reason I did so was because you previously stated that there are zero counters to an ADS besides another ADS. Fair enough. Still dubious that something can be considered a 'counter' when it requires twice the personnel to the thing being countered. After all, that confers an effective numerical advantage on the team that isn't using the counter. Assuming similar ability level, a team with 1 ADS and 15 scouts/HMG heavies will usually beat a team with 2 FGers and 14 scouts/HMGs, because the ground fight is then 15 versus 14. I love my prof 5 IAFG but it's not a true counter to an ADS in the sense that, say, scout+RE is a counter to a heavy.
Bormir1r Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 501	Posted - 2014.07.16 16:59:00 - [777] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: Chuck Nurris DCLXVI wrote: Just my thoughts on the ADS price drop. Bad idea. Very bad idea, they are already swarming pub matches, yesterday a few matches had at least 6 in the air, some ADS, others regular DS' The difference was that the ADS' simply dominated everything, ran into enemy red line, and out again unimpeded. Which ever team gets two or three of those in the air first, wins by default 90% of the time. Exactly. An ADS is a license to farm kills. It effortlessly wrecks infantry and vehicles alike, and has no counters... except another DS. The ONLY limiting factor is the price. Remove that and I see most games being decided by ADS spam. Infantry would do best to stay in the MCC or not spawn at all so they at least don't hurt the clone count. I would leave ADS completely alone right now.. I think they're quite balanced atm...you could reduce DS prices..but not ADS. "One does not simply" run like a Raptor. Only mk.0 Scouts do ... wait... I'm still outclassed by Gal scouts.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4372	Posted - 2014.07.16 21:12:00 - [778] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Was fixing the racial suit slot layouts addressed? Amarr - Most low slots Gallente - High number of low slots Caldari - Most high slots Minmatar - Even to 1 more high slot than low For example Assault's lots layout: Highs/Lows - (Previous layout) Amarr - 2H 5L - (3H 4L) Gallente - 2H 5L OR 3H 4L - (Same)/- Caldari - 5H 2L - (4H 3L) Minmatar - 4H 3L - (5H 2L) Logistics' slots layout: Highs/Lows/Equipment/Sidearm - (Previous layout) Amarr - 3H 5L 3E 1S - (Same) Gallente - 3H 5L 4E 0S - (Same) Caldari - 5H 3L 4E 0S - (5H 4L 4E 0S) Minmatar - 4H 4L 4E 0S - (Same) Sentinel's lots layout: Highs/Lows - (Previous layout) Amarr - 1H 4L (2H 3L) Gallente - 1H 4L OR 2H 3L - (Same)/- Caldari - 3H 1L - (Same) Minmatar - 3H 2L - (Same) take a look at the slot layout thread - stickied "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 26	Posted - 2014.07.16 21:21:00 - [779] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Was fixing the racial suit slot layouts addressed? Amarr - Most low slots Gallente - High number of low slots Caldari - Most high slots Minmatar - Even to 1 more high slot than low For example Assault's lots layout: Highs/Lows - (Previous layout) Amarr - 2H 5L - (3H 4L) Gallente - 2H 5L OR 3H 4L - (Same)/- Caldari - 5H 2L - (4H 3L) Minmatar - 4H 3L - (5H 2L) Logistics' slots layout: Highs/Lows/Equipment/Sidearm - (Previous layout) Amarr - 3H 5L 3E 1S - (Same) Gallente - 3H 5L 4E 0S - (Same) Caldari - 5H 3L 4E 0S - (5H 4L 4E 0S) Minmatar - 4H 4L 4E 0S - (Same) Sentinel's lots layout: Highs/Lows - (Previous layout) Amarr - 1H 4L (2H 3L) Gallente - 1H 4L OR 2H 3L - (Same)/- Caldari - 3H 1L - (Same) Minmatar - 3H 2L - (Same) take a look at the slot layout thread - stickied So are we keeping the amaar logi sidearm?
fullmetal latino LATINOS KILLERS CORP Dark Taboo 10	Posted - 2014.07.16 21:48:00 - [780] - Quote why not just let the heavys use "heavy" weapons??? are the command for that, no?

bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 351	Posted - 2014.07.17 01:35:00 - [781] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Was fixing the racial suit slot layouts addressed? Amarr - Most low slots Gallente - High number of low slots Caldari - Most high slots Minmatar - Even to 1 more high slot than low For example Assault's lots layout: Highs/Lows - (Previous layout) Amarr - 2H 5L - (3H 4L) Gallente - 2H 5L OR 3H 4L - (Same)/- Caldari - 5H 2L - (4H 3L) Minmatar - 4H 3L - (5H 2L) Logistics' slots layout: Highs/Lows/Equipment/Sidearm - (Previous layout) Amarr - 3H 5L 3E 1S - (Same) Gallente - 3H 5L 4E 0S - (Same) Caldari - 5H 3L 4E 0S - (5H 4L 4E 0S) Minmatar - 4H 4L 4E 0S - (Same) Sentinel's lots layout: Highs/Lows - (Previous layout) Amarr - 1H 4L (2H 3L) Gallente - 1H 4L OR 2H 3L - (Same)/- Caldari - 3H 1L - (Same) Minmatar - 3H 2L - (Same) take a look at the slot layout thread - stickied Links or it didn't happen. Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2711	Posted - 2014.07.17 02:09:00 - [782] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: Links or it didn't happen. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=168380&find=unread This is how a minja feels
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 322	Posted - 2014.07.18 08:27:00 - [783] - Quote I absolutely love everything I'm seeing. Quote: * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. This however... You should warn people before you do things like this. It requires SP to be saved or else a lot of heavies will be useless in Planetary Conquest until they skill into Fitting Optimizations or ditch their sidearms. I'll be sending a corp mail out now. DUST 514 Forums. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villa- er, I mean panty weights and neckbeards.
Meee One Algintal Core Gallente Federation 911	Posted - 2014.07.18 09:08:00 - [784] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. * Installation buff, with a range and AI range reduction, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements, both Small and Large * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement * Reduced small rail range compared to sniper range * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. ~~Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus~~. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS * Reduced ADS ISK price Still under tech evaluation * Disabling passive Scan sharing with squads * Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Unfair fall damage calculation Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug Hotfix Delta or later Sidearm rebalance Sniper Rifle review Efficacy bonuses Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity So....scouts are getting buffed (again). Assaults are getting majorly buffed. Sentinels are getting nerfed. And logistics is getting nerfed. Why isn't logistics getting a base stat buff? Currently logistics has low: -eHP -Speed -Combat ability -Regen It is the only suit that suffers so badly in all areas. So,i propose a buff to either: -eHP (to represent why it's so slow) -Speed and Regen (to represent why it's so frail) Come on CCP it deserves one of those! Logis are hunted actively by every other suit,and are forced to brick tank to defend themselves. That and it actually makes sense!
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 627	Posted - 2014.07.18 09:37:00 - [785] - Quote A PROPOSAL I know that CCP must have data or ideas that justify certain setups. I am also pleased that there has been a move to rectify many subjects to create an evolving game that achieves a greater balance and immersion. My beef is with the MED Frame inequalities (LOGI and ASSAULT). There is a tension between the two because there is a lack of definition with the ASSAULT type MED frame. The LOGI is well defined and remains unique and is in a good place that will be better with the proper slot adjustments. The difficulty in CCPGÇÖs position is that it has yet to make the ASSAULT Frames the defining go to suits. IGÇÖm sure that if IGÇÖm not outright just stealing the idea by not crediting authors it is only that I agree with your positions and wanted to emphasize them again, but I offer this suggestion that I like. Defining the MED Frames The SLOT ADJUSTMENT is a good start, but too little to move the ASSAULTS to where they will be a dominating force. It hardly seems logical that a LOGI is the same ASSAULT suit that sacrifices base stats (EHP, potential, speed, shield recharge, stamina and recharge, etc.) and their side arm (mostly) then gets to carry all this great equipment AND have more high(H) and low(L) slots. The ASSAULT will only stand out when there is a defining difference between the two frames that makes the choice for a slayer obvious and the choice for a support role obvious. Make the ASSAULTs mean. THE H/L SLOT LAYOUT of each MED FRAME equal to each other or higher for ASSAULTS. THE CPU/PG is EQUAL or higher for LOGIS but each can fit all Proto MODS and Proto GEAR (LOGI EQ and ASSAULT LW, SA) Keep the LOGI stats as they are now. ASSAULT stats as they are now, but more HP as planned. First the LOGI A LOGIGÇÖs power in MODules and EQuipment Here the slot counts are all Equal to 8, 10, 12. BUT not all should be the same GÇô keeping a little flavor with the equipment bearers is cool. (and I support the Logi bonus changes) UNIQUE Logis GÇô (3EQ, Side Arm, Module Focus) AMARR SIDE ARM (Best Choice GÇô Unique)ORMODULE Focused (IFF Bonuses Change) S- 2H/3L/2E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/2E A- 2H/4L/3E + Side Arm A- 3H/4L/3E P- 3H/5L/3E + Side Arm P- 4H/5L/3E CALDARI SIDE ARM (Equality - another SA option)ORMODULE Focused (Unique) S- 3H/2L/2E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/2E A- 4H/2L/3E + Side Arm A- 4H/3L/3E P- 5H/3L/3E + Side Arm P- 5H/4L/3E EQ SPECIFIC Logis GÇô (4EQ) GALLENTE S- 2H/3L/3E A- 2H/3L/3E P- 3H/5L/4E MINMATAR S- 2H/2L/3E A- 3H/3L/3E P- 4H/4L/4E Delivers Logis with equal slot counts (side arm = 1 EQ) Keeps them equal in tier movements. ASSAULTS: Capable of being the most unique and powerful force out there. Lets make them that way. AMARR EQUAL to logi ORBETTER - Logi loses 1EQ for SA S- 2H/3L/1E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 2H/4L/1E + Side Arm A- 3H/4L/1E + Side Arm P- 3H/5L/1E + Side Arm P- 4H/5L/1E + Side Arm CALDARI EQUAL to logi ORBETTER - Logi loses 1EQ for SA S- 3H/2L/1E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 4H/2L/1E + Side Arm A- 4H/3L/1E + Side Arm P- 5H/3L/1E + Side Arm P- 5H/4L/1E + Side Arm GALLENTE EQUAL to logi ORBETTER - Logi loses 1H for 4thEQ S- 2H/3L/1E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 2H/4L/1E + Side Arm A- 3H/4L/1E + Side Arm P- 3H/5L/1E + Side Arm P- 4H/5L/1E + Side Arm MINMATAR EQUAL to logi ORBETTER Focus - Logi loses 1H for 4thEQ S- 2H/2L/1E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 4H/3L/1E + Side Arm P- 4H/4L/1E + Side Arm P- 5H/4L/1E + Side Arm IN this way The COST of not being an ASSAULT is always less modules. Logis gain equipment but loses stat and 1 module. Scouts gain speed and equipment but lose stats and modules. Commandos gain HP and another LW but lose grenades and modules. Heavies gain HW and HP but lose modules. ASSAULTs will be the Maximum warriors even if their bonuses are not all that people may want. The modules and better stats make them awesome regardless. It makes the ASSAULTs versatile for battle and they may even give every class a run for their money as they will be the new Logi Slayer or Brick Scout that can suddenly do everything better than every other class (with the right module)GÇª but isnGÇÖt that what the ASSAULTs were meant to do? WerenGÇÖt the other classes supposed to sacrifice to take on another role? Not all roles are equal, but balance does not mean equality. IGÇÖll work on some CPU/PG Calculations tomorrow to try to find that sweet spot where the MED frames can have the same CPU/PG and what percentages their Bonuses need to be at in order to accommodate such a move. ThatGÇÖs all I got for now. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
Meee One Algintal Core Gallente Federation 911	Posted - 2014.07.18 09:58:00 - [786] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: A PROPOSAL I know that CCP must have data or ideas that justify certain setups. I am also pleased that there has been a move to rectify many subjects to create an evolving game that achieves a greater balance and immersion. My beef is with the MED Frame inequalities (LOGI and ASSAULT). There is a tension between the two because there is a lack of definition with the ASSAULT type MED frame. The LOGI is well defined and remains unique and is in a good place that will be better with the proper slot adjustments. The difficulty in CCPGÇÖs position is that it has yet to make the ASSAULT Frames the defining go to suits. IGÇÖm sure that if IGÇÖm not outright just stealing the idea by not crediting authors it is only that I agree with your positions and wanted to emphasize them again, but I offer this suggestion that I like. Defining the MED Frames The SLOT ADJUSTMENT is a good start, but too little to move the ASSAULTS to where they will be a dominating force. It hardly seems logical that a LOGI is the same ASSAULT suit that sacrifices base stats (EHP, potential, speed, shield recharge, stamina and recharge, etc.) and their side arm (mostly) then gets to carry all this great equipment AND have more high(H) and low(L) slots. The ASSAULT will only stand out when there is a defining difference between the two frames that makes the choice for a slayer obvious and the choice for a support role obvious. Make the ASSAULTs mean. THE H/L SLOT LAYOUT of each MED FRAME equal to each other or higher for ASSAULTS. THE CPU/PG is EQUAL or higher for LOGIS but each can fit all Proto MODS and Proto GEAR (LOGI EQ and ASSAULT LW, SA) Keep the LOGI stats as they are now. ASSAULT stats as they are now, but more HP as planned. First the LOGI A LOGIGÇÖs power in MODules and EQuipment Here the slot counts are all Equal to 8, 10, 12. BUT not all should be the same GÇô keeping a little flavor with the equipment bearers is cool. (and I support the Logi bonus changes) UNIQUE Logis GÇô (3EQ, Side Arm, Module Focus) AMARR SIDE ARM (Best Choice GÇô Unique)ORMODULE Focused (IFF Bonuses Change) S- 2H/3L/2E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/2E A- 2H/4L/3E + Side Arm A- 3H/4L/3E P- 3H/5L/3E + Side Arm P- 4H/5L/3E CALDARI SIDE ARM (Equality - another SA option)ORMODULE Focused (Unique) S- 3H/2L/2E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/2E A- 4H/2L/3E + Side Arm A- 4H/3L/3E P- 5H/3L/3E + Side Arm P- 5H/4L/3E EQ SPECIFIC Logis GÇô (4EQ) GALLENTE S- 2H/3L/3E A- 2H/3L/3E P- 3H/5L/4E MINMATAR S- 2H/2L/3E A- 3H/3L/3E P- 4H/4L/4E Delivers Logis with equal slot counts (side arm = 1 EQ) Keeps them equal in tier movements. ASSAULTS: Capable of being the most unique and powerful force out there. Lets make them that way. AMARR EQUAL to logi ORBETTER - Logi loses 1EQ for SA S- 2H/3L/1E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 2H/4L/1E + Side Arm A- 3H/4L/1E + Side Arm P- 3H/5L/1E + Side Arm P- 4H/5L/1E + Side Arm CALDARI EQUAL to logi ORBETTER - Logi loses 1EQ for SA S- 3H/2L/1E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 4H/2L/1E + Side Arm A- 4H/3L/1E + Side Arm P- 5H/3L/1E + Side Arm P- 5H/4L/1E + Side Arm GALLENTE EQUAL to logi ORBETTER - Logi loses 1H for 4thEQ S- 2H/3L/1E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 2H/4L/1E + Side Arm A- 3H/4L/1E + Side Arm P- 3H/5L/1E + Side Arm P- 4H/5L/1E + Side Arm MINMATAR EQUAL to logi ORBETTER Focus - Logi loses 1H for 4thEQ S- 2H/2L/1E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 4H/3L/1E + Side Arm P- 4H/4L/1E + Side Arm P- 5H/4L/1E + Side Arm IN this way The COST of not being an ASSAULT is always less modules. Logis gain equipment but loses stat and 1 module. Scouts gain speed and equipment but lose stats and modules. Commandos gain HP and another LW but lose grenades and modules. Heavies gain HW and HP but lose modules. ASSAULTs will be the Maximum warriors even if their bonuses are not all that people may want. The modules and better stats make them awesome regardless. It makes the ASSAULTs versatile for battle and they may even give every class a run for their money as they will be the new Logi Slayer or Brick Scout that can suddenly do everything better than every other class (with the right module)GÇª but isnGÇÖt that what the ASSAULTs were meant to do? WerenGÇÖt the other classes supposed to sacrifice to take on another role? Not all roles are equal, but balance does not mean equality. IGÇÖll work on some CPU/PG Calculations tomorrow to try to find that sweet spot where the MED frames can have the same CPU/PG and what percentages their Bonuses need to be at in order to accommodate such a move. ThatGÇÖs all I got for now. You're an idiot. Logis have about 30 more eHP than their scout counterparts yet are slower than the more heavily tanked assaults. And you want to screw logistics over even more? If logistics had higher eHP than assaults or higher speed/regen then you wouldn't seem like such a moron. It takes 5 module slots minimal for a logistics to equal an assaults base stats,the problem isn't slots the problem is equipment. The only reason "slayer logistics" was/is a problem is because of our ability to carry gear and support. Assaults want to kill and support,which is why most "slayers" moved to scouts. CCP needs to herd these players into the mindset of kill -or- support, not kill -and- support.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 628	Posted - 2014.07.18 10:13:00 - [787] - Quote Meee One wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: A PROPOSAL RedBleach is Awesome You're an idiot. Logis have about 30 more eHP than their scout counterparts yet are slower than the more heavily tanked assaults. And you want to screw logistics over even more? If logistics had higher eHP than assaults or higher speed/regen then you wouldn't seem like such a moron. It takes 5 module slots minimal for a logistics to equal an assaults base stats,the problem isn't slots the problem is equipment. The only reason "slayer logistics" was/is a problem is because of our ability to carry gear and support. Assaults want to kill and support,which is why most "slayers" moved to scouts. CCP needs to herd these players into the mindset of kill -or- support, not kill -and- support. Logis are not meant to be equal to assaults. The role of the logistics class is to specialize in equipment. For that we pay price. If Logistics had Higher HP or Regen than assaults we would again be the Slayer Logis. Slayer Logi's were an issue when the bonuses offered supreme protection and out doing all the classes in their roles. Slayers moving to scouts is another signal that the Assault class is broken. Your last point I agree with. I am moving to make that a reality by defining the roles. You and I just have separate views on how to accomplish that. - I don't see buffing logis to be the best as solving the issue. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
Meee One Algintal Core Gallente Federation 911	Posted - 2014.07.18 11:08:00 - [788] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Meee One wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: A PROPOSAL RedBleach is Awesome You're an idiot. Logis have about 30 more eHP than their scout counterparts yet are slower than the more heavily tanked assaults. And you want to screw logistics over even more? If logistics had higher eHP than assaults or higher speed/regen then you wouldn't seem like such a moron. It takes 5 module slots minimal for a logistics to equal an assaults base stats,the problem isn't slots the problem is equipment. The only reason "slayer logistics" was/is a problem is because of our ability to carry gear and support. Assaults want to kill and support,which is why most "slayers" moved to scouts. CCP needs to herd these players into the mindset of kill -or- support, not kill -and- support. Logis are not meant to be equal to assaults. The role of the logistics class is to specialize in equipment. For that we pay price. If Logistics had Higher HP or Regen than assaults we would again be the Slayer Logis. Slayer Logi's were an issue when the bonuses offered supreme protection and out doing all the classes in their roles. Slayers moving to scouts is another signal that the Assault class is broken. Your last point I agree with. I am moving to make that a reality by defining the roles. You and I just have separate views on how to accomplish that. - I don't see buffing logis to be the best as solving the issue. Logis are meant to be equal with assaults,just not at assaulting. logistics isn't just some pee yellow suit made of garbage and tape (except for maybe the minmatar one :p) logistics is the master support,not the assaults re.tarded cousin. Assaults are (supposed) to be the master combat suit. The problem is everyone is treating logistics like it's a dingleberry clinging to an assaults butt hairs. When in all actuality,logistics is standing equal with assaults not lesser in any way. No one respects logistics which is why fools like you post such stupidity as if you're a genius. Logis deserve respect for choosing to set aside their own needs for the needs of their allies,not "well hurr logistics is s'posed te suck". logistics deserves a buff,to either eHP or speed/regeneration. logistics isn't second class and shouldn't be treated as such.
Mejt0 Made in Poland... E-R-A 193	Posted - 2014.07.18 12:12:00 - [789] - Quote Every comment i read, it is : more hp,more hp, give us more hp! You want hp? Go for heavy. Your logis already have 800+ehp, assaults needs bonuses,regen not again HP. If you need heavys hp to med frame, youre bad. -~-~-~-Caldari Loyalist-~-~-~-My CreoDron wont miss any of you
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 185	Posted - 2014.07.18 13:02:00 - [790] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Every comment i read, it is : more hp,more hp, give us more hp! You want hp? Go for heavy. Your logis already have 800+ehp, assaults needs bonuses,regen not again HP. If you need heavys hp to med frame, youre bad. My logi does not roll with 800+ ehp & I suspect many others do not either. Have you ever tried to keep up with a heavy when you are plated upto the eyeballs ? I have seen scouts with more hp than I have so please ( not just you ) stop generalising. It is a simple concept really, make the assault suits better. The hard part is doing that without making all other classes useless. GÇ£Their stupidity does not amaze me, its when they're smart that amazes me." GÇò Frank Zappa

Deathonswift SINISTER DEVELOPMENTS 6	Posted - 2014.07.18 14:33:00 - [791] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: My logi does not roll with 800+ ehp & I suspect many others do not either. Have you ever tried to keep up with a heavy when you are plated upto the eyeballs ? Ferroscale... If you're getting still getting shot up too quickly you're using the wrong logistics suit. Each suit has a stat tendency for different situations. Darkness shrouds as Fire purges. I am the Wraith.
Maken Tosch DUST University Ivy League 8871	Posted - 2014.07.18 15:49:00 - [792] - Quote Well, it's about time you guys are looking into fixing the colors. I want my Scout 'Kindred's sexy red-n-white back. On Twitter: @HilmarVeigar #greenlightlegion #dust514 players are waiting.
Hawkings Greenback Red Star. EoN. 185	Posted - 2014.07.18 16:04:00 - [793] - Quote Deathonswift wrote: Hawkings Greenback wrote: My logi does not roll with 800+ ehp & I suspect many others do not either. Have you ever tried to keep up with a heavy when you are plated upto the eyeballs ? Ferroscale... If you're getting still getting shot up too quickly you're using the wrong logistics suit. Each suit has a stat tendency for different situations. Of course ferroscale. Why would I be using the wrong suit if I am getting shot up too quickly ? GÇ£Their stupidity does not amaze me, its when they're smart that amazes me." GÇò Frank Zappa
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 632	Posted - 2014.07.18 17:53:00 - [794] - Quote Meee One wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Meee One wrote: [quote=RedBleach LeSanglant] RedBleach is Awesome Logis are not meant to be equal to assaults. The role of the logistics class is to specialize in equipment. For that we pay price. If Logistics had Higher HP or Regen than assaults we would again be the Slayer Logis. Slayer Logi's were an issue when the bonuses offered supreme protection and out doing all the classes in their roles. Slayers moving to scouts is another signal that the Assault class is broken. Your last point I agree with. I am moving to make that a reality by defining the roles. You and I just have separate views on how to accomplish that. - I don't see buffing logis to be the best as solving the issue. Logis are meant to be equal with assaults,just not at assaulting. logistics isn't just some pee yellow suit made of garbage and tape (except for maybe the minmatar one :p) logistics is the master support,not the assaults re.tarded cousin. Assaults are (supposed) to be the master combat suit. RedBleach is a Genius logistics deserves a buff,to either eHP or speed/regeneration. logistics isn't second class and shouldn't be treated as such. You are right that Logistics is not a second class suit. But it must also pay a price to carry the equipment it does. If it and the assaults were the same, but the logi could also carry all that equipment there would be no need for an assault. There is a price for specialization into equipment - you either get it or you dont. It really sounds like you just need to be heard and feel justified in you opinions. Very Well: Are LOGIs too squishy? Yes. Do they need a buff? Yes. But none of that is what I was addressing, I was addressing slot adjustments. I have been a logi since the begining. Yes, so long ago... since the beginning before the open beta. Who Respects Logis? I do - dedicated alot of time to writing a guide for beginning logis. Who respecs to Logi? I did, every time the option was available. Who still plays logi? I do. And I still think The slot adjustments will further define the roles and with a little buff later in the HP/Regen/Protection department maybe we can have a solid defense one day too like the other MED FRAME. This is still a FPS and logis must still be a viable choice for attacking as well has equipment handling/support. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3812	Posted - 2014.07.18 20:01:00 - [795] - Quote Meee One wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: RedBleach is Awesome You're an idiot. (Followed by a lot more drivel. And another post with even more) Just stop. RedBleach knows as much or more about being a logi as anyone, that certainly includes you. You will not win any allies or sway anyone's opinion spouting off like that. Especially since what is apparently your basic premise is terribly flawed. Nobody ran "slayer logistics" because of the ability to use equipment. That was just the cherry on top. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Zindorak CaUsE-4-CoNcErN 147	Posted - 2014.07.18 20:56:00 - [796] - Quote I hope KInKats will have a lower fitting reduction. They are ridiculously hard to fit. 11 pg on the Militia version? thats BS
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1126	Posted - 2014.07.18 21:41:00 - [797] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: A PROPOSAL I know that CCP must have data or ideas that justify certain setups. I am also pleased that there has been a move to rectify many subjects to create an evolving game that achieves a greater balance and immersion. My beef is with the MED Frame inequalities (LOGI and ASSAULT). There is a tension between the two because there is a lack of definition with the ASSAULT type MED frame. The LOGI is well defined and remains unique and is in a good place that will be better with the proper slot adjustments. The difficulty in CCPGÇÖs position is that it has yet to make the ASSAULT Frames the defining go to suits. IGÇÖm sure that if IGÇÖm not outright just stealing the idea by not crediting authors it is only that I agree with your positions and wanted to emphasize them again, but I offer this suggestion that I like. Defining the MED Frames The SLOT ADJUSTMENT is a good start, but too little to move the ASSAULTS to where they will be a dominating force. It hardly seems logical that a LOGI is the same ASSAULT suit that sacrifices base stats (EHP, potential, speed, shield recharge, stamina and recharge, etc.) and their side arm (mostly) then gets to carry all this great equipment AND have more high(H) and low(L) slots. The ASSAULT will only stand out when there is a defining difference between the two frames that makes the choice for a slayer obvious and the choice for a support role obvious. Make the ASSAULTs mean. THE H/L SLOT LAYOUT of each MED FRAME equal to each other or higher for ASSAULTS. THE CPU/PG is EQUAL or higher for LOGIS but each can fit all Proto MODS and Proto GEAR (LOGI EQ and ASSAULT LW, SA) Keep the LOGI stats as they are now. ASSAULT stats as they are now, but more HP as planned. First the LOGI A LOGIGÇÖs power in MODules and EQuipment Here the slot counts are all Equal to 8, 10, 12. BUT not all should be the same GÇô keeping a little flavor with the equipment bearers is cool. (and I support the Logi bonus changes) UNIQUE Logis GÇô (3EQ, Side Arm, Module Focus) AMARR SIDE ARM (Best Choice GÇô Unique)..........ORMODULE Focused (IFF Bonuses Change) S- 2H/3L/2E + Side Arm................................S- 3H/3L/2E A- 2H/4L/3E + Side Arm ................................A- 3H/4L/3E P- 3H/5L/3E + Side Arm.................................P- 4H/5L/3E CALDARI SIDE ARM (Equality - another SA option)......ORMODULE Focused (Unique) S- 3H/2L/2E + Side Arm ....................................S- 3H/3L/2E A- 4H/2L/3E + Side Arm .....................................A- 4H/3L/3E P- 5H/3L/3E + Side Arm .....................................P- 5H/4L/3E EQ SPECIFIC Logis GÇô (4EQ) GALLENTE S- 2H/3L/3E A- 2H/3L/3E P- 3H/5L/4E MINMATAR S- 2H/2L/3E A- 3H/3L/3E P- 4H/4L/4E Delivers Logis with equal slot counts (side arm = 1 EQ) Keeps them equal in tier movements. ASSAULTS: Capable of being the most unique and powerful force out there. Lets make them that way. AMARR EQUAL to logi........................ORBETTER - Logi loses 1EQ for SA S- 2H/3L/1E + Side Arm.............S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 2H/4L/1E + Side Arm.............A- 3H/4L/1E + Side Arm P- 3H/5L/1E + Side Arm.............P- 4H/5L/1E + Side Arm CALDARI EQUAL to log.........................ORBETTER - Logi loses 1EQ for SA S- 3H/2L/1E + Side Arm.............S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 4H/2L/1E + Side Arm..............A- 4H/3L/1E + Side Arm P- 5H/3L/1E + Side Arm..............P- 5H/4L/1E + Side Arm GALLENTE EQUAL to logi........................ORBETTER - Logi loses 1H for 4thEQ S- 2H/3L/1E + Side Arm.............S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 2H/4L/1E + Side Arm.............A- 3H/4L/1E + Side Arm P- 3H/5L/1E + Side Arm.............P- 4H/5L/1E + Side Arm MINMATAR EQUAL to logi........................ORBETTER Focus - Logi loses 1H for 4thEQ S- 2H/2L/1E + Side Arm.............S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm.............A- 4H/3L/1E + Side Arm P- 4H/4L/1E + Side Arm.............P- 5H/4L/1E + Side Arm IN this way The COST of not being an ASSAULT is always less modules. Logis gain equipment but loses stat and 1 module. Scouts gain speed and equipment but lose stats and modules. Commandos gain HP and another LW but lose grenades and modules. Heavies gain HW and HP but lose modules. ASSAULTs will be the Maximum warriors even if their bonuses are not all that people may want. The modules and better stats make them awesome regardless. It makes the ASSAULTs versatile for battle and they may even give every class a run for their money as they will be the new Logi Slayer or Brick Scout that can suddenly do everything better than every other class (with the right module)GÇª but isnGÇÖt that what the ASSAULTs were meant to do? WerenGÇÖt the other classes supposed to sacrifice to take on another role? Not all roles are equal, but balance does not mean equality. IGÇÖll work on some CPU/PG Calculations tomorrow to try to find that sweet spot where the MED frames can have the same CPU/PG and what percentages their Bonuses need to be at in order to accommodate such a move. ThatGÇÖs all I got for now. this seems like a good idea but im not quiet sure though. but it does look like a way to go at it for tiercide SP earned perday/week
Greiv Rabbah KiLo. 11	Posted - 2014.07.18 22:25:00 - [798] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: snip The Nanite Injector WP scaling is great news. Is there any possibility of squeezing in tier based scaling for repair tools aswell? While to a lesser extent, they have the exact same problem of higher tiers being a clear downgrade in purely economic terms. Also, regarding OMS. Could you elaborate on why you believe further reducing the number of game modes, Pilots and AV infantry can participate in with their preferred playstyle, is necessary? Let me use a loaded question to articulate my concern: Would you say that non-AV capable infantry players require/deserve a vehicle free game mode for the sake of it, or is this decision purely driven by current balance issues and thus a (theoretically) temporary concession? Every single FPS game that I have played has a vehicle free TDM. I see no reason why DUST 514 should not have it. I am fine with vehicles moving to Dom and Skirm because they are objective based. every single mmo i have played has a market, but that doesnt stop dust not having one. i think that removing a game mode that a specific class prefers just because other classes prefer not to be forced to play it doesnt make sense. it breaks the player experience by saying "you leveled up this way, so now you cant play the whole game" and that is AWFUL. let vehicles and AV run in OMS it makes sense and makes ambush MORE than just a deathmatch. just break up the queues so that infantry can select ambush and vehicles can select OMS
Greiv Rabbah KiLo. 11	Posted - 2014.07.18 22:51:00 - [799] - Quote Dragonmeballs wrote: [quote=CCP Rattati]All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * * Installation buff, with a range and AI review, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS] Thank you for the communication Rattati. The buff of the installation is good. Even making them indestructible before hacking is better (there shouldn't be a lot of risk free WPs as it hurts the game). A turret isn't a threat until it is in play but reducing the WP for destruction is counter productive. If installations were to be a leverage-able asset just like supply depots this hot fix could be a game changer. Removing vehicles from OMS (assuming installations will still exist in OMS) will completely change the dynamic of OMS. The counter to strong installations is WP for destruction and/or the LAV/HAV. Ambush OMS could end up being a mode between Ambush and Skirmish. Instead of just running around in packs killing other mercs some thought would have be given to dealing with the installations as well. I think that would make things interesting! Maintaining an installation also needs to be given some thought as well. Even if these things have increased health a proto forge gun or PLC is going to make short work of them. There needs to be an effective way to restore the health of the installation. Thoughts anyone? thoughts aside from giving ppl a reason to use axis rep tools or adding logistics vehicles back into the game? no, none....
Meee One Algintal Core Gallente Federation 914	Posted - 2014.07.18 23:07:00 - [800] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Meee One wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Meee One wrote: [quote=RedBleach LeSanglant] RedBleach is Awesome Logis are not meant to be equal to assaults. The role of the logistics class is to specialize in equipment. For that we pay price. If Logistics had Higher HP or Regen than assaults we would again be the Slayer Logis. Slayer Logi's were an issue when the bonuses offered supreme protection and out doing all the classes in their roles. Slayers moving to scouts is another signal that the Assault class is broken. Your last point I agree with. I am moving to make that a reality by defining the roles. You and I just have separate views on how to accomplish that. - I don't see buffing logis to be the best as solving the issue. Logis are meant to be equal with assaults,just not at assaulting. logistics isn't just some pee yellow suit made of garbage and tape (except for maybe the minmatar one :p) logistics is the master support,not the assaults re.tarded cousin. Assaults are (supposed) to be the master combat suit. RedBleach is a Genius logistics deserves a buff,to either eHP or speed/regeneration. logistics isn't second class and shouldn't be treated as such. You are right that Logistics is not a second class suit. But it must also pay a price to carry the equipment it does. If it and the assaults were the same, but the logi could also carry all that equipment there would be no need for an assault. There is a price for specialization into equipment - you either get it or you dont. It really sounds like you just need to be heard and feel justified in you opinions. Very Well: Are LOGIs too squishy? Yes. Do they need a buff? Yes. But none of that is what I was addressing, I was addressing slot adjustments. I have been a logi since the begining. Yes, so long ago... since the beginning before the open beta. Who Respects Logis? I do - dedicated alot of time to writing a guide for beginning logis. Who respecs to Logi? I did, every time the option was available. Who still plays logi? I do. And I still think The slot adjustments will further define the roles and with a little buff later in the HP/Regen/Protection department maybe we can have a solid defense one day too like the other MED FRAME. This is still a FPS and logis must still be a viable choice for attacking as well has equipment handling/support. You might run a logistics suit,but you clearly don't respect it because you are suggesting another suit be better instead of equal. let me give you an IRL example: -When transporting gems or money in large amounts,what type of vehicle is used? Answer? An armored car. (slow with high armor) It's slow but it can survive heavy gunfire,now let us make a Dust comparison: -When transporting equipment in large amounts,what type of suit is used? Answer? A logistics suit. (slow with low armor) See the point? Assaults are the tip of the spear,logistics is the shaft while scouts are thd notch that holds the tip in place,and heavies are the pomel. Assaults are supposed to be good at 1 thing : killing. Logis are supposed to be the best/fastest hackers,and suppliers. (ya know master support) Scouts are supposed to be the best recon,not killers,and not hackers. (best stealth hackers) Heavies are supposed to be the best point defense,not the best killers. (Holding off an enemy doesn't mean killing them) If assaults are buffed too much it screws over logistics. How? Because they are equals yet one is getting left far behind "bekuz et haz te be week fer assaults te keel better". CCP look at scouts,they're weak yet people are using them far more than assaults,chew on that one far a while.

knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1126	Posted - 2014.07.19 01:54:00 - [801] - Quote i think it would be best to give us the option o not being forced to equip a weapon, what could it possible hurt to give us an option to not have a weapon SP earned perday/week
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 635	Posted - 2014.07.19 05:01:00 - [802] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: i think it would be best to give us the option o not being forced to equip a weapon, what could it possible hurt to give us an option to not have a weapon That could be fun, I know a few logis that are sworn pacifists that would love that option. Don't know if I could do it though. John, Thanks for having my back o7 The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 68	Posted - 2014.07.19 05:06:00 - [803] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: i think it would be best to give us the option o not being forced to equip a weapon, what could it possible hurt to give us an option to not have a weapon You could always use a bp or flp... Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3633	Posted - 2014.07.19 14:56:00 - [804] - Quote May i ask why you reduce the range on small rails? The optimal range is 200m and effective range is 300m (falloff with reduced damage!). This is a vital point for small railguns to engage other dropships in air to air combat. And sniper rifles have a range of about 600m so how can you even compare a vehicle turret to a infantry weapon? If there are scrubs complaining about it cause some guy parked a gorgon on a roof shoting infantry then they didnt even tried to fight back.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4551	Posted - 2014.07.19 15:06:00 - [805] - Quote Edited OP "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

PLAYSTTION GamersForChrist 195	Posted - 2014.07.19 15:08:00 - [806] - Quote KEEP AMBUSH OMS but remove vehicles and or make it its own option in battle finder. If OB WP x2 means from 2500 to 5000 i think it should stay at 2500 And i think the WP for injectors should stay the same so that there is a reason for low level medics to want to heal you 44/4 in a BPO Scout (1.8) 40/5 in a Proto Assault (1.7) Open Beta Vet 26mil sp R.I.P Dust 514
Mejt0 Made in Poland... E-R-A 196	Posted - 2014.07.19 15:40:00 - [807] - Quote PLAYSTTION wrote: KEEP AMBUSH OMS but remove vehicles and or make it its own option in battle finder. If OB WP x2 means from 2500 to 5000 i think it should stay at 2500 And i think the WP for injectors should stay the same so that there is a reason for low level medics to want to heal you Thats bad. Why making av and veh users unable to play game mode? Maybe remove infiantry? You see how stupid it sounds? Thats just stupid. I know people who have 25m + sp just in tanks, and they wouldnt play ambush only because noobs like you never tries to fihtg them back?... PS. forgot to mention AV guys, but these real who have seriously invested sp into it. -~-~-~-Caldari Loyalist-~-~-~-My CreoDron wont miss any of you
richiesutie 2 The Rainbow Effect 885	Posted - 2014.07.19 16:05:00 - [808] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: PLAYSTTION wrote: KEEP AMBUSH OMS but remove vehicles and or make it its own option in battle finder. If OB WP x2 means from 2500 to 5000 i think it should stay at 2500 And i think the WP for injectors should stay the same so that there is a reason for low level medics to want to heal you Thats bad. Why making av and veh users unable to play game mode? Maybe remove infiantry? You see how stupid it sounds? Thats just stupid. I know people who have 25m + sp just in tanks, and they wouldnt play ambush only because noobs like you never tries to fihtg them back?... PS. forgot to mention AV guys, but these real who have seriously invested sp into it. I think everyone would be totally fine with a vehicle only mode..... compilation of Patch/build notes Check it out! :)
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3073	Posted - 2014.07.19 16:05:00 - [809] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS Victory in Ambush is no longer governed by vehicle count; this is a distinct improvement. I favor doing the same for OMS. Ambush OMS matches tend to be a 'bit more tactical than regular Ambush matches. For example, at the start of an OMS match, a Scout does well to locate/flank the enemy and deploy Uplinks behind their line. The tactic is far less rewarding in regular Ambush, as the match is generally 1/3-1/2 over by the time your 2-3 Uplinks are in position. OMS installations also make for more interesting combat. Supply Depots give defensive units (like Heavies and Logis) something to defend. If turret installations are improved (and vehicles removed), these emplacements could become valuable in slowing the momentum of hostile steamroll. OMS has lots of potential. It would a shame to yank it on account of ADS/HAV. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3638	Posted - 2014.07.19 17:14:00 - [810] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Edited OP thank you . You make me a happy incubus pilot cause i love dogfights vs pythons.

RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 636	Posted - 2014.07.19 17:33:00 - [811] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Edited OP I will be looking forward to an explanation of the decisions. I believe that the slot layouts were a good move, perhaps we will hear more in the future. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11429	Posted - 2014.07.19 17:55:00 - [812] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Edited OP I noticed the part about equal total high and low slots of logis per tier is crossed out, I'm dissapointed. Does this mean it is no longer planned? Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11429	Posted - 2014.07.19 18:05:00 - [813] - Quote PLAYSTTION wrote: KEEP AMBUSH OMS but remove vehicles and or make it its own option in battle finder. If OB WP x2 means from 2500 to 5000 i think it should stay at 2500 And i think the WP for injectors should stay the same so that there is a reason for low level medics to want to heal you I disagree We don't need team deathmatch modes, though I would prefer if OMS (with no vehicles) stayed, and regular ambush got removed; regular ambush ends too fast, often less than 5 minutes. Warbarge strikes are too easy to get right now, the WP requirement should be raised. The injector change is definitely needed, there has to be higher WP incentives to using better injectors. There is no reason why a militia injector and prototype injector should be rewarded equally when they'e clearly unequal; the militia one is so often a liability for the one being revived, while the prototype one is a genuinely useful asset. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Nirwanda Vaughns 426th Infantry 649	Posted - 2014.07.19 18:10:00 - [814] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: PLAYSTTION wrote: KEEP AMBUSH OMS but remove vehicles and or make it its own option in battle finder. If OB WP x2 means from 2500 to 5000 i think it should stay at 2500 And i think the WP for injectors should stay the same so that there is a reason for low level medics to want to heal you I disagree We don't need team deathmatch modes, though I would prefer if OMS (with no vehicles) stayed, and regular ambush got removed; regular ambush ends too fast, often less than 5 minutes. Warbarge strikes are too easy to get right now, the WP requirement should be raised. The injector change is definitely needed, there has to be higher WP incentives to using better injectors. There is no reason why a militia injector and prototype injector should be rewarded equally when they'e clearly unequal; the militia one is so often a liability for the one being revived, while the prototype one is a genuinely useful asset. you'd still get more points using a lower end injector and reppign the guy back to full armor. i do it with mine even at proto level. hit a heavy with 20% injector then get around 200 triage gettin the armor back up :) Rolling with the punches

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4560	Posted - 2014.07.19 18:28:00 - [815] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Edited OP I will be looking forward to an explanation of the decisions. I believe that the slot layouts were a good move, perhaps we will hear more in the future. To your and Kagehoshi's point. I do not feel that the equalized layout of slots per role per tier, nor the logi changes (f.ex. having two sidearm logis with passive equipment (CA and AM) versus the two active logis with no sidearms, nor the amarr/gallente reversal, nor the larger spread ideas of 4-1 instead of 3-2 and 5-2 instead of 4-3 new layouts were received favorably. If we can revisit that thread and actually give us proper feedback in a fashion like "I agree with giving GA logis more slots and STD and ADV, but I do not like X and Y", we can maybe still keep some changes. Until then, this initiative is delayed until Delta or later. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1129	Posted - 2014.07.19 18:54:00 - [816] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Edited OP I will be looking forward to an explanation of the decisions. I believe that the slot layouts were a good move, perhaps we will hear more in the future. To your and Kagehoshi's point. I do not feel that the equalized layout of slots per role per tier, nor the logi changes (f.ex. having two sidearm logis with passive equipment (CA and AM) versus the two active logis with no sidearms, nor the amarr/gallente reversal, nor the larger spread ideas of 4-1 instead of 3-2 and 5-2 instead of 4-3 new layouts were received favorably. If we can revisit that thread and actually give us proper feedback in a fashion like "I agree with giving GA logis more slots and STD and ADV, but I do not like X and Y", we can maybe still keep some changes. Until then, this initiative is delayed until Delta or later. are the CAL and MIN assault slot layout going to be switched at least SP earned perday/week
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 770	Posted - 2014.07.19 19:24:00 - [817] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * ~~Reduced small rail range compared to sniper range~~ I missed this, why is it not being changed? Twitter MajLagSpike CPM Application
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 73	Posted - 2014.07.19 20:58:00 - [818] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, ~~slight changes in slot layout and~~ improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. ~~Possibly a slight speed increase.~~, add Grenade fitting bonus, 5% per level. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Introduce a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. * Installation buff, with a range and AI range reduction, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements, both Small and Large * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. * Nova Knife hit detection, range and damage improvement * ~~Reduced small rail range compared to sniper range~~ * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * ~~Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS~~, Ambush OMS stays with vehicles and buffed installations, revisited in Delta based on new feedback. * Reduced ADS ISK price Still under tech evaluation * Disabling passive Scan sharing with squads * Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Unfair fall damage calculation Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug Hotfix Delta or later Sidearm rebalance Sniper Rifle review Efficacy bonuses Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity Grenade bonus, awful for assault And what happened to slot changes? Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3642	Posted - 2014.07.19 22:14:00 - [819] - Quote Syeven Reed wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: * ~~Reduced small rail range compared to sniper range~~ I missed this, why is it not being changed? Because a small railgun has a max range of 300 meters (at that point your rounds do minimal damage). A sniper rifle can shot up to 600 meters without any falloff which would lower the damage per shot. And if you are complaining about people parking with a gorgon on a roof shot them with a forgegun or snipe them out of the gunner seat. Both is not hard to do.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 51	Posted - 2014.07.19 23:35:00 - [820] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, ~~slight changes in slot layout and~~ improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. ~~Possibly a slight speed increase.~~, add Grenade fitting bonus, 5% per level. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Introduce a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. * Installation buff, with a range and AI range reduction, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements, both Small and Large * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. * Nova Knife hit detection, range and damage improvement * ~~Reduced small rail range compared to sniper range~~ * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * ~~Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS~~, Ambush OMS stays with vehicles and buffed installations, revisited in Delta based on new feedback. * Reduced ADS ISK price Still under tech evaluation * Disabling passive Scan sharing with squads * Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Unfair fall damage calculation Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug Hotfix Delta or later Sidearm rebalance Sniper Rifle review Efficacy bonuses Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity So, If I've understood - not more speed for assault - CPU for Caldari will not be more increase for hotfix charlie (more than 317 for PRO) - add grenade fitting bonus for assault - logi's wouldn't have the same number of equipment - other bonus for assaults => hotfix D MY BIGEST QUESTIONS nerf the SMG or buff other sidearm weapon for hotfix D ? do you want to change slots disposition for hotfix Charlie or not ???? Please do this change for hotfix Chalie, I don't care if you don't make enought PG/CPU for assaults ! But I really want to have my "new suit" Are you serious ? You want to wait a lot of time to change our slots, but you can do that for hotfix charlie ? You know... Since your FIRST post about hotfix charlie, I've stopped playing with caldari assault, because, in my mind, it was like "why must I still play with that suit, it will be transform in a few days, great" I couldn't play with it because play with a fit which will not exist any more isn't interesting... I've waited for 1 month........ And now you are going to say I (WE!) will must wait for a long time again ?! Are you kidding us ? Sorry if I'm angry, but I don't understand... Make changements.... And at the last time say "No, we'll not make those changes, HAHAHA in your fat a*s " I know not much players will me interessed for this post, but I must say it : you're playing with us, and I don't like it... You'll say : "not, we want to do those changes for Delta because we want to give the best PG/CPU for all assaults at the same time" => You have asked this question [url=https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2269268#post2269268]here[url], so, you have your answers. I know what you can do, and I know you can do those changes just in a few days... Not inevitably wait for hotfix Delta.... That's a joke.... A lot of people have answerd "improve CPU for Caldari", or "More PG for Amarr" That's not so difficult to understand that and to cange that... My grandfather can do that in 1 day... You can do that in 1 hour Seriously, I can't understand... I can't... I try, but I can't... Just after hotfix Bravo, you have said "assault situation will be improved with hotfix Charlie" Ho yes, I see... Not better assault bonus, not suit bonus, not a better slot fitting, but 6% increase CPU for Caldari !!!! YOUHOUUUU !!! Assault will be the best suit with hotfix Charlie ! Scout ? Heavy ? NOOOOO ! ASSAULT !!!!! I've enjoyed your job, but with your last post, you could lose an other (veteran) player... Good decision... Work in progress... yes... but the work doesn't appair.... GG Everything which doesn't kill us, makes us simply more... strange

JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 73	Posted - 2014.07.19 23:50:00 - [821] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, ~~slight changes in slot layout and~~ improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. ~~Possibly a slight speed increase.~~, add Grenade fitting bonus, 5% per level. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Introduce a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. * Installation buff, with a range and AI range reduction, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements, both Small and Large * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. * Nova Knife hit detection, range and damage improvement * ~~Reduced small rail range compared to sniper range~~ * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * ~~Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS~~, Ambush OMS stays with vehicles and buffed installations, revisited in Delta based on new feedback. * Reduced ADS ISK price Still under tech evaluation * Disabling passive Scan sharing with squads * Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Unfair fall damage calculation Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug Hotfix Delta or later Sidearm rebalance Sniper Rifle review Efficacy bonuses Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity So, If I've understood - not more speed for assault - CPU for Caldari will not be more increase for hotfix charlie (more than 317 for PRO) - add grenade fitting bonus for assault - logi's wouldn't have the same number of equipment - other bonus for assaults => hotfix D MY BIGEST QUESTIONS nerf the SMG or buff other sidearm weapon for hotfix D ? do you want to change slots disposition for hotfix Charlie or not ???? Please do this change for hotfix Chalie, I don't care if you don't make enought PG/CPU for assaults ! But I really want to have my "new suit" Are you serious ? You want to wait a lot of time to change our slots, but you can do that for hotfix charlie ? You know... Since your FIRST post about hotfix charlie, I've stopped playing with caldari assault, because, in my mind, it was like "why must I still play with that suit, it will be transform in a few days, great" I couldn't play with it because play with a fit which will not exist any more isn't interesting... I've waited for 1 month........ And now you are going to say I (WE!) will must wait for a long time again ?! Are you kidding us ? Sorry if I'm angry, but I don't understand... Make changements.... And at the last time say "No, we'll not make those changes, HAHAHA in your fat a*s " I know not much players will me interessed for this post, but I must say it : you're playing with us, and I don't like it... You'll say : "not, we want to do those changes for Delta because we want to give the best PG/CPU for all assaults at the same time" => You have asked this question https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2269268#post2269268 , so, you have your answers. I know what you can do, and I know you can do those changes just in a few days... Not inevitably wait for hotfix Delta.... That's a joke.... A lot of people have answerd "improve CPU for Caldari", or "More PG for Amarr" That's not so difficult to understand that and to cange that... My grandfather can do that in 1 day... You can do that in 1 hour Seriously, I can't understand... I can't... I try, but I can't... Just after hotfix Bravo, you have said "assault situation will be improved with hotfix Charlie" Ho yes, I see... Not better assault bonus, not suit bonus, not a better slot fitting, but 6% increase CPU for Caldari !!!! YOUHOUUUU !!! Assault will be the best suit with hotfix Charlie ! Scout ? Heavy ? NOOOOO ! ASSAULT !!!!! I've enjoyed your job, but with your last post, you could lose an other (veteran) player... Good decision... Work in progress... yes... but the work doesn't appair.... GG Yea I was heavily disappointed with the cal assault buff, it's like rattati didn't even test the change, minimum cpu buff needs to be 15% more cpu... Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 51	Posted - 2014.07.19 23:54:00 - [822] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, ~~slight changes in slot layout and~~ improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. ~~Possibly a slight speed increase.~~, add Grenade fitting bonus, 5% per level. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Introduce a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. * Installation buff, with a range and AI range reduction, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements, both Small and Large * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. * Nova Knife hit detection, range and damage improvement * ~~Reduced small rail range compared to sniper range~~ * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * ~~Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS~~, Ambush OMS stays with vehicles and buffed installations, revisited in Delta based on new feedback. * Reduced ADS ISK price Still under tech evaluation * Disabling passive Scan sharing with squads * Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Unfair fall damage calculation Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug Hotfix Delta or later Sidearm rebalance Sniper Rifle review Efficacy bonuses Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity So, If I've understood - not more speed for assault - CPU for Caldari will not be more increase for hotfix charlie (more than 317 for PRO) - add grenade fitting bonus for assault - logi's wouldn't have the same number of equipment - other bonus for assaults => hotfix D MY BIGEST QUESTIONS nerf the SMG or buff other sidearm weapon for hotfix D ? do you want to change slots disposition for hotfix Charlie or not ???? Please do this change for hotfix Chalie, I don't care if you don't make enought PG/CPU for assaults ! But I really want to have my "new suit" Are you serious ? You want to wait a lot of time to change our slots, but you can do that for hotfix charlie ? You know... Since your FIRST post about hotfix charlie, I've stopped playing with caldari assault, because, in my mind, it was like "why must I still play with that suit, it will be transform in a few days, great" I couldn't play with it because play with a fit which will not exist any more isn't interesting... I've waited for 1 month........ And now you are going to say I (WE!) will must wait for a long time again ?! Are you kidding us ? Sorry if I'm angry, but I don't understand... Make changements.... And at the last time say "No, we'll not make those changes, HAHAHA in your fat a*s " I know not much players will me interessed for this post, but I must say it : you're playing with us, and I don't like it... You'll say : "not, we want to do those changes for Delta because we want to give the best PG/CPU for all assaults at the same time" => You have asked this question https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2269268#post2269268 , so, you have your answers. I know what you can do, and I know you can do those changes just in a few days... Not inevitably wait for hotfix Delta.... That's a joke.... A lot of people have answerd "improve CPU for Caldari", or "More PG for Amarr" That's not so difficult to understand that and to cange that... My grandfather can do that in 1 day... You can do that in 1 hour Seriously, I can't understand... I can't... I try, but I can't... Just after hotfix Bravo, you have said "assault situation will be improved with hotfix Charlie" Ho yes, I see... Not better assault bonus, not suit bonus, not a better slot fitting, but 6% increase CPU for Caldari !!!! YOUHOUUUU !!! Assault will be the best suit with hotfix Charlie ! Scout ? Heavy ? NOOOOO ! ASSAULT !!!!! I've enjoyed your job, but with your last post, you could lose an other (veteran) player... Good decision... Work in progress... yes... but the work doesn't appair.... GG Yea I was heavily disappointed with the cal assault buff, it's like rattati didn't even test the change, minimum cpu buff needs to be 15% more cpu... My god... do those test isn't difficult... If he really wanted to do that good and speed, he could... Maybe because he is a Gallente assault... I don't know... I don't understand him Everything which doesn't kill us, makes us simply more... strange
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 73	Posted - 2014.07.19 23:58:00 - [823] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, ~~slight changes in slot layout and~~ improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. ~~Possibly a slight speed increase.~~, add Grenade fitting bonus, 5% per level. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Introduce a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. * Installation buff, with a range and AI range reduction, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements, both Small and Large * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. * Nova Knife hit detection, range and damage improvement * ~~Reduced small rail range compared to sniper range~~ * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * ~~Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS~~, Ambush OMS stays with vehicles and buffed installations, revisited in Delta based on new feedback. * Reduced ADS ISK price Still under tech evaluation * Disabling passive Scan sharing with squads * Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Unfair fall damage calculation Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug Hotfix Delta or later Sidearm rebalance Sniper Rifle review Efficacy bonuses Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity So, If I've understood - not more speed for assault - CPU for Caldari will not be more increase for hotfix charlie (more than 317 for PRO) - add grenade fitting bonus for assault - logi's wouldn't have the same number of equipment - other bonus for assaults => hotfix D MY BIGEST QUESTIONS nerf the SMG or buff other sidearm weapon for hotfix D ? do you want to change slots disposition for hotfix Charlie or not ???? Please do this change for hotfix Chalie, I don't care if you don't make enought PG/CPU for assaults ! But I really want to have my "new suit" Are you serious ? You want to wait a lot of time to change our slots, but you can do that for hotfix charlie ? You know... Since your FIRST post about hotfix charlie, I've stopped playing with caldari assault, because, in my mind, it was like "why must I still play with that suit, it will be transform in a few days, great" I couldn't play with it because play with a fit which will not exist any more isn't interesting... I've waited for 1 month........ And now you are going to say I (WE!) will must wait for a long time again ?! Are you kidding us ? Sorry if I'm angry, but I don't understand... Make changements.... And at the last time say "No, we'll not make those changes, HAHAHA in your fat a*s " I know not much players will me interessed for this post, but I must say it : you're playing with us, and I don't like it... You'll say : "not, we want to do those changes for Delta because we want to give the best PG/CPU for all assaults at the same time" => You have asked this question https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2269268#post2269268 , so, you have your answers. I know what you can do, and I know you can do those changes just in a few days... Not inevitably wait for hotfix Delta.... That's a joke.... A lot of people have answerd "improve CPU for Caldari", or "More PG for Amarr" That's not so difficult to understand that and to cange that... My grandfather can do that in 1 day... You can do that in 1 hour Seriously, I can't understand... I can't... I try, but I can't... Just after hotfix Bravo, you have said "assault situation will be improved with hotfix Charlie" Ho yes, I see... Not better assault bonus, not suit bonus, not a better slot fitting, but 6% increase CPU for Caldari !!!! YOUHOUUUU !!! Assault will be the best suit with hotfix Charlie ! Scout ? Heavy ? NOOOOO ! ASSAULT !!!!! I've enjoyed your job, but with your last post, you could lose an other (veteran) player... Good decision... Work in progress... yes... but the work doesn't appair.... GG Yea I was heavily disappointed with the cal assault buff, it's like rattati didn't even test the change, minimum cpu buff needs to be 15% more cpu... My god... do those test isn't difficult... If he really wanted to do that good and speed, he could... Maybe because he is a Gallente assault... I don't know... I don't understand him Here's how to find out: Get a proto cal assault Put basic cpu mod Proceed to buff base cpu to those levels. Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
Zindorak 1.U.P 156	Posted - 2014.07.20 00:00:00 - [824] - Quote Oh yea Amarr sidearm stays thanks CCP btw how to make lines to cross out words?
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 73	Posted - 2014.07.20 00:30:00 - [825] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Oh yea Amarr sidearm stays thanks CCP btw how to make lines to cross out words? [ s ] insert text here[ / s ] No spaces in the [ ] Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
Zindorak 1.U.P 157	Posted - 2014.07.20 01:16:00 - [826] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: Zindorak wrote: Oh yea Amarr sidearm stays thanks CCP btw how to make lines to cross out words? [ s ] insert text here[ / s ] No spaces in the [ ] k thx
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 637	Posted - 2014.07.20 01:31:00 - [827] - Quote ~~Sweet~~ I'll be loving this The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 74	Posted - 2014.07.20 01:44:00 - [828] - Quote Zindorak wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Zindorak wrote: Oh yea Amarr sidearm stays thanks CCP btw how to make lines to cross out words? [ s ] insert text here[ / s ] No spaces in the [ ] k thx Now check my sig. Max level brony. [Pink fluffy unicorns dancing on rainbows][1] http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
Meee One Algintal Core Gallente Federation 925	Posted - 2014.07.20 04:15:00 - [829] - Quote Too bad assaults don't get an av grenade exclusive slot. Slot 1: locus Slot 2 : av Grenades automatically switch when one slot is used. But i believe cal ass and min should swap slots,it makes sense really.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 206	Posted - 2014.07.20 08:34:00 - [830] - Quote I've been actively following this thread, tho too busy to post until now. And it looks my major issue (Logi adjustments/loss of sidearm) has been removed for now. GOOD. Now, my observation on buffing assaults: I hate to say it and I know theres a going to be a large group of players who'll object and CPM members who will protest profusely but the best buff to combat balance is unfortunately a nerf to scouts. Scouts need to lose their 2nd equipment slot AND their pg/cpu allotted for it. Scouts' ability to move (walk/strafe/turn) considerably faster than the other suits WHILE tanking 600 hp AND w/ a cloak being invisible to sight AND scan AND carry an additional payload of re's, links, or hives AND (!!) a light weapon+sidearm is what has tipped the scales to almost no assaults suits being used. Buff the assaults, slight uptick to speed,ehp, bonuses, whatever. But drop that 2nd equipment slot and the relative cpu/pg from the scouts! And leave vehicles in ambush. Limits are already in place, and PC is full of vehicles. Besides, if we can get game modes that exclude vehicles why tf don't we already have a game mode that excludes PROTO??? just my real quick .02isk while I had a moment. Opinion admittedly a little biased, logi since open-beta and primarily PC focused for the last several months. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 51	Posted - 2014.07.20 08:40:00 - [831] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: I've been actively following this thread, tho too busy to post until now. And it looks my major issue (Logi adjustments/loss of sidearm) has been removed for now. GOOD. Now, my observation on buffing assaults: I hate to say it and I know theres a going to be a large group of players who'll object and CPM members who will protest profusely but the best buff to combat balance is unfortunately a nerf to scouts. Scouts need to lose their 2nd equipment slot AND their pg/cpu allotted for it. Scouts' ability to move (walk/strafe/turn) considerably faster than the other suits WHILE tanking 600 hp AND w/ a cloak being invisible to sight AND scan AND carry an additional payload of re's, links, or hives AND (!!) a light weapon+sidearm is what has tipped the scales to almost no assaults suits being used. Buff the assaults, slight uptick to speed,ehp, bonuses, whatever. But drop that 2nd equipment slot and the relative cpu/pg from the scouts! And leave vehicles in ambush. Limits are already in place, and PC is full of vehicles. Besides, if we can get game modes that exclude vehicles why tf don't we already have a game mode that excludes PROTO??? just my real quick .02isk while I had a moment. Opinion admittedly a little biased, logi since open-beta and primarily PC focused for the last several months. Yes, CCP can buff eHP for Assault, or PG/CPU, but a scout will always stay like now, full tank and more speed, more stamina, more PG/CPU, a second equipment, better bonus, the cloack, a smaller hitbox... Maybe it will be nerfed for hotfix Y Everything which doesn't kill us, makes us simply more... strange
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 770	Posted - 2014.07.20 09:23:00 - [832] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Syeven Reed wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: * ~~Reduced small rail range compared to sniper range~~ I missed this, why is it not being changed? Because a small railgun has a max range of 300 meters (at that point your rounds do minimal damage). A sniper rifle can shot up to 600 meters without any falloff which would lower the damage per shot. And if you are complaining about people parking with a gorgon on a roof shot them with a forgegun or snipe them out of the gunner seat. Both is not hard to do. Fair enough, points a valid one. Think iv only been killed twice by them anyway. Twitter MajLagSpike CPM Application
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 54	Posted - 2014.07.20 17:17:00 - [833] - Quote Hm...Why doesn't any DEV answer ? Because it's sunday ? And what ? Tomorrow it's Belgium National Day ! Don't work ! seriously... we are at the most important point (for assault) of Hotfix Charlie... Rattati has said there will not be any change for assault slots... Why ?? Can you answer us ?? Whatever which doesn't kill us, makes us simply more... strange
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 29	Posted - 2014.07.20 21:04:00 - [834] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: I've been actively following this thread, tho too busy to post until now. And it looks my major issue (Logi adjustments/loss of sidearm) has been removed for now. GOOD. Now, my observation on buffing assaults: I hate to say it and I know theres a going to be a large group of players who'll object and CPM members who will protest profusely but the best buff to combat balance is unfortunately a nerf to scouts. Scouts need to lose their 2nd equipment slot AND their pg/cpu allotted for it. Scouts' ability to move (walk/strafe/turn) considerably faster than the other suits WHILE tanking 600 hp AND w/ a cloak being invisible to sight AND scan AND carry an additional payload of re's, links, or hives AND (!!) a light weapon+sidearm is what has tipped the scales to almost no assaults suits being used. Buff the assaults, slight uptick to speed,ehp, bonuses, whatever. But drop that 2nd equipment slot and the relative cpu/pg from the scouts! And leave vehicles in ambush. Limits are already in place, and PC is full of vehicles. Besides, if we can get game modes that exclude vehicles why tf don't we already have a game mode that excludes PROTO??? just my real quick .02isk while I had a moment. Opinion admittedly a little biased, logi since open-beta and primarily PC focused for the last several months. Yes i never understood why they gave them an extra equipment. You should have to choose either cloak or res, not both.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1229	Posted - 2014.07.20 21:24:00 - [835] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: Hm...Why doesn't any DEV answer ? Because it's sunday ? And what ? Tomorrow it's Belgium National Day ! Don't work ! seriously... we are at the most important point (for assault) of Hotfix Charlie... Rattati has said there will not be any change for assault slots... Why ?? Can you answer us ?? Seriously? The this is a job for the Dev's...a hobby or pastime at best for us. If anything Rattati has proven that he engages more than most other CCP folks. Just have a little patience. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 56	Posted - 2014.07.20 21:43:00 - [836] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: Hm...Why doesn't any DEV answer ? Because it's sunday ? And what ? Tomorrow it's Belgium National Day ! Don't work ! seriously... we are at the most important point (for assault) of Hotfix Charlie... Rattati has said there will not be any change for assault slots... Why ?? Can you answer us ?? Seriously? The this is a job for the Dev's...a hobby or pastime at best for us. If anything Rattati has proven that he engages more than most other CCP folks. Just have a little patience. Little patience ? YOU, are you serious ?! I've waited since 1.8 ! Between 1.8 and hotfix A : nothing Hotfix Alpha : nothing Hotfix Bravo : nothing Hotfix Charlie : early nothing (buff +100HP, +4%CPU, woaaaw what a buff !) So, I think I've enought patience, but it has a limit Whatever which doesn't kill us, makes us simply more... strange
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1229	Posted - 2014.07.20 21:59:00 - [837] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: Hm...Why doesn't any DEV answer ? Because it's sunday ? And what ? Tomorrow it's Belgium National Day ! Don't work ! seriously... we are at the most important point (for assault) of Hotfix Charlie... Rattati has said there will not be any change for assault slots... Why ?? Can you answer us ?? Seriously? The this is a job for the Dev's...a hobby or pastime at best for us. If anything Rattati has proven that he engages more than most other CCP folks. Just have a little patience. Little patience ? YOU, are you serious ?! I've waited since 1.8 ! Between 1.8 and hotfix A : nothing Hotfix Alpha : nothing Hotfix Bravo : nothing Hotfix Charlie : early nothing (buff +100HP, +4%CPU, woaaaw what a buff !) So, I think I've enought patience, but it has a limit Whatever man...lol. Your (our) need for info on a video game doesn't trump a dudes day off. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 58	Posted - 2014.07.20 22:14:00 - [838] - Quote Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Whatever man...lol. Your (our) need for info on a video game doesn't trump a dudes day off. I just hate people who are kidding me... It's so easy to say : "we will do - ... - ... ......" and finally nothing Like : - ADV and PRO tanks - Pilot suit - PvE - New battle types - Planetary Conquest 2.0 - Caldari complexe (map) - Gallente and Amarr heavy weapon That's what we wanted in DUST 514, but it'll not come ever in DUST 514 So, finally, I don't know what think... Try to be in my place, after 1.8 (and scout-assault) I've still played with my Assault, and I have the Calda scout, so I could get a scout ck.0 with 700HP life, but I've hoped assault to be more usefull... Do I must wait for 4 others month ? I don't understand... Silence is the worst answer... Isn't it Rattati
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 381	Posted - 2014.07.21 06:22:00 - [839] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. I'm sad to hear the equipment standardization being scrapped. I was looking forward to being able to earn more WP at a cheaper cost. However it's probably best that Amarr keep the sidearm, because I was starting to think a lot of people would be angry about it. You know the scary thing about em? They don't need power... lights, heat, nothing. That's their advantage.
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 381	Posted - 2014.07.21 07:34:00 - [840] - Quote I just realized Eve support is going to be extremely OP now that orbitals will cost 5000 WP. Please keep that in mind CCP You know the scary thing about em? They don't need power... lights, heat, nothing. That's their advantage.

Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 58	Posted - 2014.07.21 09:42:00 - [841] - Quote Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: I just realized Eve support is going to be extremely OP now that orbitals will cost 5000 WP. Please keep that in mind CCP Not OP, but more important. I think that's a good thing to make a good link EvE - DUST Silence is the worst answer... Isn't it Rattati
Celus Ivara DUST University Ivy League 229	Posted - 2014.07.21 12:21:00 - [842] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. This is good. Though I still believe a Cloak performance bonus of some kind would be more interesting, this is far better than many of the other Amarr Scout buffs that were being proposed. CCP Rattati wrote: * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. Confused by this. The Minnie Scout is already an amazing suit; being both the best Ninja-hacking, and Knifing suit in the game. Factor in the upcoming knife buff/fix, and the upcoming shield buffs (which will help Min Scouts more than Gal & Amarr) and this becomes even more out of place. If you do go forward with a MinScout buff, please don't include the KinCat buff. It would completely obviate the use of the GalScout for anything other than brick tanking (and given that there's probably brick-tanked-scout nerfs/fixes in the pipeline, we're gong to end up with a pointless racial suit, and nobody's going to know what happened). Supporting Kevall Longstride, CEO of DUST University, for CPM1
DaNizzle4shizle New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 855	Posted - 2014.07.21 14:27:00 - [843] - Quote i like everything but the points for the installation being reducted. it should stay at 100 WP Desire means never quit. -New Age Empire. Director of logistics and recruitment. ,msg me in game to get in NAE
Clone D Grundstein Automation 650	Posted - 2014.07.21 14:41:00 - [844] - Quote I don't see the addition of stats to the fittings screen in your list. We have been asking for this for a long time. We are tired of spreadsheets and 3rd party tools. Please make this a priority for charlie. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=157525 A corp for lonewolves where squadding and comms are optional, but exceptional team play is expected.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 58	Posted - 2014.07.21 16:56:00 - [845] - Quote Clone D wrote: I don't see the addition of stats to the fittings screen in your list. We have been asking for this for a long time. Currently, we have to use spreadsheets and 3rd party tools. Please make this a priority for charlie. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=157525 This is unanimous amongst all players. There has been no bickering about adding these stats. We want them! For me that's more important to balance the different suits by race, and after by "job-of-suit" And, ok, that's a good idea, but that would be better if you give some statistics F. ex : more stamina for Assault, less for x and y scouts... etc... Silence is the worst answer...Isn't it Rattati?

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4638	Posted - 2014.07.21 21:13:00 - [846] - Quote Clone D wrote: I don't see the addition of stats to the fittings screen in your list. We have been asking for this for a long time. Currently, we have to use spreadsheets and 3rd party tools. Please make this a priority for charlie. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=157525 This is unanimous amongst all players. There has been no bickering about adding these stats. We want them! They are also not in the Charlie narrative and will not be in Charlie nor Delta. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4638	Posted - 2014.07.21 21:17:00 - [847] - Quote We will be coming back with final numbers on Logi slot counts Assault slot counts and layouts Assault PG/CPU Sentinel PG/CPU The other feedback threads will be retired soon as there is consensus that they are pretty good HMG heat Improved Sniper Reticule Nova Knifes Scout and EWAR All, thanks for participating, but we are not done yet with Charlie. Watch this space. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Centurion molokov Comander's Capital 3	Posted - 2014.07.21 21:46:00 - [848] - Quote After making WP a bit more easier, if i understood well... Maybe the sp cap should increase a bit? I mean, it will become easier to be capped days before the cap resets, and a lot of players can already reach the cap in couple days, also i find getting sp is pretty hard, but still fun if you know what i mean, so raising the cap will make life and economy a bit easier... Maybe make sp getting a bit easier and exchange that with making ISK a bit harder to get. Also, FIX THE DAMN LAG. Edit: gotta say thank you devs after all.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 60	Posted - 2014.07.21 21:56:00 - [849] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We will be coming back with final numbers on Logi slot counts Assault slot counts and layouts Assault PG/CPU Sentinel PG/CPU The other feedback threads will be retired soon as there is consensus that they are pretty good HMG heat Improved Sniper Reticule Nova Knifes Scout and EWAR All, thanks for participating, but we are not done yet with Charlie. Watch this space. Soooo, you say that I could have my Proto Caldari Assault with 5 hight slot ? I love you Rattati baby ! Silence is the worst answer...Isn't it Rattati?
Centurion molokov Comander's Capital 3	Posted - 2014.07.21 22:09:00 - [850] - Quote And... What about the "pilot" dropsuit which is not even displayed on market?

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 482	Posted - 2014.07.21 22:56:00 - [851] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We will be coming back with final numbers on Logi slot counts Assault slot counts and layouts Assault PG/CPU Sentinel PG/CPU The other feedback threads will be retired soon as there is consensus that they are pretty good HMG heat Improved Sniper Reticule Nova Knifes Scout and EWAR All, thanks for participating, but we are not done yet with Charlie. Watch this space. Is the assault hp buff still on the table for Charlie? I haven't heard much on that

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4641	Posted - 2014.07.21 23:00:00 - [852] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We will be coming back with final numbers on Logi slot counts Assault slot counts and layouts Assault PG/CPU Sentinel PG/CPU The other feedback threads will be retired soon as there is consensus that they are pretty good HMG heat Improved Sniper Reticule Nova Knifes Scout and EWAR All, thanks for participating, but we are not done yet with Charlie. Watch this space. Is the assault hp buff still on the table for Charlie? I haven't heard much on that 100% "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

iKILLu osborne WarRavens Final Resolution. 97	Posted - 2014.07.21 23:06:00 - [853] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Clone D wrote: I don't see the addition of stats to the fittings screen in your list. We have been asking for this for a long time. Currently, we have to use spreadsheets and 3rd party tools. Please make this a priority for charlie. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=157525 This is unanimous amongst all players. There has been no bickering about adding these stats. We want them! They are also not in the Charlie narrative and will not be in Charlie nor Delta. my computer takes forever to load in protofits and doing it on ps3 lol "uh guys" "i got to go back to the mcc those 10 ads's made me crap my dropsuit"
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 390	Posted - 2014.07.21 23:40:00 - [854] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: I just realized Eve support is going to be extremely OP now that orbitals will cost 5000 WP. Please keep that in mind CCP Not OP, but more important. I think that's a good thing to make a good link EvE - DUST I disagree because the big name corps in Molden Heath have a monopoly in Eve that really can't be touched by lower profile corps. That brings me back to the fact that the cost increase of a clone pack didn't solve anything, in fact made it worse for weaker corps. Speak out against the heavy QQ
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2562	Posted - 2014.07.21 23:51:00 - [855] - Quote Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: I just realized Eve support is going to be extremely OP now that orbitals will cost 5000 WP. Please keep that in mind CCP Not OP, but more important. I think that's a good thing to make a good link EvE - DUST I disagree because the big name corps in Molden Heath have a monopoly in Eve that really can't be touched by lower profile corps. That brings me back to the fact that the cost increase of a clone pack didn't solve anything, in fact made it worse for weaker corps. Top of the line corps will beat smaller corps regardless though clone pack price increase was kind of stupid. Tanker/Logi 0 The number of 7ucks given
General12912 Gallente Marine Corps 216	Posted - 2014.07.22 03:39:00 - [856] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Assaults need a more useful bonus. It doesn't matter if they get a small HP change, all that does is blur the difference between Assault and Commando further. i dont agree. i thnk the bonuses for the assaults are fine. yes, even thecal assault. just wait for Delta before you make any judgements on the new and improved assault. @Ratatti: i dont know if i like the new buff on Minmatar scouts. they should probably keep the bonus on nova knives.they are more of an assassin scout anyways. then again, if NKs are getting a buff, this may make up forthe loss of a min scout NK damage bonus. Every suit Gk.0 <3 Gallente Federation Patriot
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4201	Posted - 2014.07.22 07:01:00 - [857] - Quote Rattati, Part of the reason why the feedback on the logistics/Assault suits is so divided is because you guys basically threw us a spreadsheet and said "tell us what you think about each individual change"" If you want to make large changes like this all at once do it in separate threads. There should be an update in between Charlie and Delta that is specifically just for these changes. For example, 5 different threads: Assault Slot Layout Changes General Feedback Gallente Assault Discussion Caldari Assault Discussion Minmatar Assault Discussion Amarr Assault Discussion Then once we have figured that out we can store those threads away and bring up the logistics. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Varoth Drac The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 183	Posted - 2014.07.22 07:23:00 - [858] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Rattati, Part of the reason why the feedback on the logistics/Assault suits is so divided is because you guys basically threw us a spreadsheet and said "tell us what you think about each individual change"" If you want to make large changes like this all at once do it in separate threads. There should be an update in between Charlie and Delta that is specifically just for these changes. For example, 5 different threads: Assault Slot Layout Changes General Feedback Gallente Assault Discussion Caldari Assault Discussion Minmatar Assault Discussion Amarr Assault Discussion Then once we have figured that out we can store those threads away and bring up the logistics. __________________________________________________________________________ Another example: Please discuss the Caldari Assault changes in this thread Current stats: (Insert stats here) Proposed stats: (Insert stats here) I think Rattati should have gone with your second option. I think a lot of the confusion about the assault suit changes is because different aspects were in different threads. An assault suit thread detailing the hp increase, fitting increase and slot changes together would have been better. Though I think maybe this should have been one thread about all assaults, since you need to find balance between assaults as well, much like with the scout changes. Still, it's great we can have these discussions, whatever form they take.
Syeven Reed G0DS AM0NG MEN 777	Posted - 2014.07.22 07:27:00 - [859] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Rattati, Part of the reason why the feedback on the logistics/Assault suits is so divided is because you guys basically threw us a spreadsheet and said "tell us what you think about each individual change"" If you want to make large changes like this all at once do it in separate threads. There should be an update in between Charlie and Delta that is specifically just for these changes. For example, 5 different threads: Assault Slot Layout Changes General Feedback Gallente Assault Discussion Caldari Assault Discussion Minmatar Assault Discussion Amarr Assault Discussion Then once we have figured that out we can store those threads away and bring up the logistics. __________________________________________________________________________ Another example: Please discuss the Caldari Assault changes in this thread Current stats: (Insert stats here) Proposed stats: (Insert stats here) You can't really balance a suit without having all suits in the topic of conversation. Twitter MajLagSpike CPM Application
DoomTree's Clone Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1	Posted - 2014.07.22 09:06:00 - [860] - Quote i personally would jus love to not have to reliquish one of my low slots to cpu expansions just to have a viable suit in which to compete with. i run: 3 complex shield extenders with ridiculose stacking penalties for caldari assault point of view 1 enhanced shield energizer 1 complex cpu expansion 1 complex amor plate 1 complex or enhanced regulator (cant really remember and dust is currently downtimed) viziam scrambler rifle ishkone smg basic locus nade <------- completely useless btw compact nanohive at about 470 cpu and 70ish pg used in this setup i would like to see my compact changed to a k 17 ( not sure what the name is of that adv. reping nano) reping nanohive and my basic locus nade to an m1 my complex amor plate and cpu expansion changed to: 1 basic plate and 1 enhanced feroscale the funny thing is im only asking to run advanced stuff lol IM A SERIAL MISS SPELLER. I CAN MISS SPELL CEREAL AT ANY MOMENT....... DAMIT.... DANG.... wall textures are op

Greiv Rabbah KiLo. 12	Posted - 2014.07.22 10:10:00 - [861] - Quote Centurion molokov wrote: And... What about the "pilot" dropsuit which is not even displayed on market? yes what about pilots? also MTACs: expansion in '13? ................... 3013???
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3664	Posted - 2014.07.22 15:10:00 - [862] - Quote Centurion molokov wrote: And... What about the "pilot" dropsuit which is not even displayed on market? Do you really want a pilot suit? You better think twice what you wish for cause if there is a suit that gives bonuses to vehicles then the vehicle/modules are getting nerfbatted. Just think back about the equipment nerf when they added race specific bonuses to logistic suits. So the ultimate question would be: do you really want to skill into a proto pilot suit so that your vehicle operates exactly like it did without the pilot suit before? This would aswell mean that heavy/logistic suits in tanks/dropships would be a no go.
Centurion molokov Comander's Capital 4	Posted - 2014.07.22 19:13:00 - [863] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Centurion molokov wrote: And... What about the "pilot" dropsuit which is not even displayed on market? Do you really want a pilot suit? You better think twice what you wish for cause if there is a suit that gives bonuses to vehicles then the vehicle/modules are getting nerfbatted. Just think back about the equipment nerf when they added race specific bonuses to logistic suits. So the ultimate question would be: do you really want to skill into a proto pilot suit so that your vehicle operates exactly like it did without the pilot suit before? This would aswell mean that heavy/logistic suits in tanks/dropships would be a no go. I dont want it, i was just wandering why there is a pilot suit on the marker but cant buy it. I played the game for 2 yrs, but i was in the forums for one month
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 642	Posted - 2014.07.22 19:45:00 - [864] - Quote I am looking forward to the results from the work of the CCP Dust team on the suit proposals. This is an exciting time. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 64	Posted - 2014.07.22 20:03:00 - [865] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: I am looking forward to the results from the work of the CCP Dust team on the suit proposals. This is an exciting time. Yes, me too, that's very exciting. But I prefer them to take some times and make something really good for us. That's better than make smtg not very good tomorrow... We must wait for and be quiet ('hope news for tomorrow ?Why not ?) EDIT : the topic about dropsuit layout is locked until today (9:20:43 PM) So, could we have news in a few times ? Good news are the best answer

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4661	Posted - 2014.07.22 23:50:00 - [866] - Quote Updated OP. See slot layout feedback thread for details. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11443	Posted - 2014.07.23 00:30:00 - [867] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Updated OP. See slot layout feedback thread for details. There really is no need to buff large blaster accuracy, I hope you reconsider. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Ralden Caster KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 68	Posted - 2014.07.23 01:19:00 - [868] - Quote Somewhat off-topic but I just realized a fix to the lack of a proper suicide option before someone rezzes you; Make it so you only are revived upon injection if you are holding down the "call for help" button. While on this topic, is it possible to make the downed player symbol on the minimap squad-colored for downed squaddies? "AHAHAHAHAA, I TELEPORTED BREAD!!!" -Soldier 2014
Ralden Caster KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 68	Posted - 2014.07.23 01:20:00 - [869] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Updated OP. See slot layout feedback thread for details. There really is no need to buff large blaster accuracy, I hope you reconsider. I think what they mean is more amongst the line of fixing pesky hit detection issues. "AHAHAHAHAA, I TELEPORTED BREAD!!!" -Soldier 2014
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3675	Posted - 2014.07.23 14:23:00 - [870] - Quote Aww codebreakers are not going to be highslot modlules . You make me a sad panda rattati.

Nirwanda Vaughns 426th Infantry 652	Posted - 2014.07.23 14:29:00 - [871] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * ~~Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS~~, Ambush OMS stays with vehicles and buffed installations, revisited in Delta based on new feedback. worse decision ever! at leat split the 2 game modes so those who want a break from tank spam can do so! really tankers only want to come into ambush to pad out their peni... kdr. just give us a little corner of the universe to get away from vehicle spam once in a while. standard ambush matches are so much less annoying now its actually made the game a bit more enjoyable to play again. Rolling with the punches
Myron Kundera The Generals Anime Empire. 77	Posted - 2014.07.23 16:11:00 - [872] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, universal changes in slot layout, one additonal slot at ADV and PRO and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. ~~Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase.~~, add Grenade fitting bonus, 5% per level. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Introduce a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. Update slots according to Universal Matrix. * Installation buff, with a range and AI range reduction, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements, both Small and Large * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. ~~Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot (maybe Delta. PG increase.~~ * Nova Knife hit detection, range and damage improvement, plus PG reduction. * ~~Reduced small rail range compared to sniper range~~ * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier., tagged for Hotfix Delta, see Slot Layout discussion thread. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * ~~Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS~~, Ambush OMS stays with vehicles and buffed installations, revisited in Delta based on new feedback. * Reduced ADS ISK price Still under tech evaluation * Disabling passive Scan sharing with squads * Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Unfair fall damage calculation Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug Hotfix Delta or later Sidearm rebalance Sniper Rifle review Efficacy bonuses Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity, Scouts, Commandos, Logistics Good stuff! This looks great! "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4693	Posted - 2014.07.23 16:13:00 - [873] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Aww codebreakers are not going to be highslot modlules . You make me a sad panda rattati. There is a technical issue, not a design issue, moving a module between high and low has not been done before and it had unintended consequences. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Floyd20 Azizora Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 66	Posted - 2014.07.23 16:22:00 - [874] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Aww codebreakers are not going to be highslot modlules . You make me a sad panda rattati. There is a technical issue, not a design issue, moving a module between high and low has not been done before and it had unintended consequences. How badly did you break the game?
Francois Sanchez What The French Red Whines. 41	Posted - 2014.07.23 17:19:00 - [875] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Aww codebreakers are not going to be highslot modlules . You make me a sad panda rattati. There is a technical issue, not a design issue, moving a module between high and low has not been done before and it had unintended consequences. It's sad, that would have been really useful for Min scouts. It's nice to be able to hack super fast, but if enemies spot you before you reach the point...
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 74	Posted - 2014.07.23 17:21:00 - [876] - Quote Francois Sanchez wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Aww codebreakers are not going to be highslot modlules . You make me a sad panda rattati. There is a technical issue, not a design issue, moving a module between high and low has not been done before and it had unintended consequences. It's sad, that would have been really useful for Min scouts. It's nice to be able to hack super fast, but if enemies spot you before you reach the point... Yeah, I thought something like 3 kitkat 3 codebreakers Amazing for the beginiing of BC's Ho yeah Love you Rattati!
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3656	Posted - 2014.07.23 20:27:00 - [877] - Quote On a side note can we get the old class names back Assault-Enforcer Logistics-Artificer Scout-Arbiter Sentinel-Sentinel And finally change the name of the Ar to the Plasma Rifle Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt! The eyes of God compelles you!!!
Al the destroyer Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 166	Posted - 2014.07.23 22:03:00 - [878] - Quote Francois Sanchez wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Aww codebreakers are not going to be highslot modlules . You make me a sad panda rattati. There is a technical issue, not a design issue, moving a module between high and low has not been done before and it had unintended consequences. It's sad, that would have been really useful for Min scouts. It's nice to be able to hack super fast, but if enemies spot you before you reach the point... No PG for you! Too bad my poor min scout will still suck oh well at least its not as bad as my A-logi what I would do to get those 5.4 mill sp back! Maybe its time for a change this 5hit is getting old fast!
Centurion molokov Comander's Capital 6	Posted - 2014.07.23 22:09:00 - [879] - Quote Man this is rough, i come back and see like 10 comments already written, im bailing lol.
iKILLu osborne WarRavens Final Resolution. 108	Posted - 2014.07.24 02:25:00 - [880] - Quote can we get a date for charlie been waiting for 2 weeks now, i swear you'll building it up like it is the superbowl or something "uh guys" "i got to go back to the mcc those 10 ads's made me crap my dropsuit"

jNs Vit4l THE 300 SPARTANS 12	Posted - 2014.07.24 04:13:00 - [881] - Quote iKILLu osborne wrote: can we get a date for charlie been waiting for 2 weeks now, i swear you'll building it up like it is the superbowl or something It''s coming after thursday''s downtime. CEO of The 300 Spartans! Leader FC of J PLATOON VIT4L (CFW) CALDARI LOYALIST!!!
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3955	Posted - 2014.07.24 11:46:00 - [882] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Aww codebreakers are not going to be highslot modlules . You make me a sad panda rattati. There is a technical issue, not a design issue, moving a module between high and low has not been done before and it had unintended consequences. As I recall, last time they created a new module in the other slot and retired the old one. What was it, the melee damage module or something? I think I have some of the old ones that were in the other slot. I suppose that doing it that way would require client side changes though. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
shady merc RisingSuns Dark Taboo 49	Posted - 2014.07.24 23:50:00 - [883] - Quote All around good stuff. The only thing I ask is you make room in Delta to at least look at all high Alpha damage weapons. I am not saying any of them will be UP or OP, but with assaults getting a 150 hp bonus that could really effect weapons like mass drivers, sniper rifles and shotguns(sniper rifle are already on the list for delta).
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 115	Posted - 2014.07.24 23:57:00 - [884] - Quote jNs Vit4l wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: can we get a date for charlie been waiting for 2 weeks now, i swear you'll building it up like it is the superbowl or something It''s coming after thursday''s downtime. Source, troll? Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
Vicious Minotaur 1100	Posted - 2014.07.25 01:00:00 - [885] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: jNs Vit4l wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: can we get a date for charlie been waiting for 2 weeks now, i swear you'll building it up like it is the superbowl or something It''s coming after thursday''s downtime. Source, troll? Source I am a minotaur.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 118	Posted - 2014.07.25 01:29:00 - [886] - Quote Vicious Minotaur wrote: JRleo jr wrote: jNs Vit4l wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: can we get a date for charlie been waiting for 2 weeks now, i swear you'll building it up like it is the superbowl or something It''s coming after thursday''s downtime. Source, troll? Source I see... Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
Arianne Stratos Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 0	Posted - 2014.07.25 16:39:00 - [887] - Quote Watch, someone already said it, but..... The Bolas. My WORST enemy. It's invisible, and i feel like the sound effect for it should be changed to the jaws sound track. I keep getting Infantry using it as a weapon against my ADS, and ya know what makes me sad? It's SUPER EFFECTIVE.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 125	Posted - 2014.07.25 17:24:00 - [888] - Quote Arianne Stratos wrote: Watch, someone already said it, but..... The Bolas. My WORST enemy. It's invisible, and i feel like the sound effect for it should be changed to the jaws sound track. I keep getting Infantry using it as a weapon against my ADS, and ya know what makes me sad? It's SUPER EFFECTIVE. Assault dropship fainted! Dust player_4763 gained 1 exp. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
Arianne Stratos Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 2	Posted - 2014.07.25 19:31:00 - [889] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: Arianne Stratos wrote: Watch, someone already said it, but..... The Bolas. My WORST enemy. It's invisible, and i feel like the sound effect for it should be changed to the jaws sound track. I keep getting Infantry using it as a weapon against my ADS, and ya know what makes me sad? It's SUPER EFFECTIVE. Assault dropship fainted! Dust player_4763 gained 1 exp. XD Yes, glad somebody caught my reference. But ummmm..... can we get squadlock in options for vehicles? It's REALLY hard (that's what she said) to be a team player and hop out of your vehicle to hack **** when a bloobairy comes and steals your vehicle... then gets it immediately killed.... SO SAD!
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 209	Posted - 2014.07.25 19:32:00 - [890] - Quote Solo... no traction on scouts having that 2nd equipment slot removed and the commiserate pg/CPU reduced? It'd save a ton of energy trying to balance the rest of infantry around it... Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

Centurion molokov Comander's Capital 8	Posted - 2014.07.26 00:44:00 - [891] - Quote Im serious, please fix lag, its the only game where i get so much lag and its annoying
Rusty Shallows Caldari State 1913	Posted - 2014.07.26 02:53:00 - [892] - Quote Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: * ~~Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS~~, Ambush OMS stays with vehicles and buffed installations, revisited in Delta based on new feedback. worse decision ever! at least split the 2 game modes so those who want a break from tank spam can do so! really tankers only want to come into ambush to pad out their peni... kdr. just give us a little corner of the universe to get away from vehicle spam once in a while. standard ambush matches are so much less annoying now its actually made the game a bit more enjoyable to play again. That please. My negative experience with Assault Dropships & HAVs from December 2012 through the Spring have convinced me there will never be any fair competition in Pubs. Maybe someday in Legion but never in Dust 514. I'd rather not have to exit Ambush OMS matches when they show up in rotation. Forums > Game: So here is a cookie and a Like. Please keep posting. Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! >>> GòÜ(GÇóGîéGÇó)Gò¥ >>>
knight guard fury Carbon 7 Iron Oxide. 1145	Posted - 2014.07.26 04:06:00 - [893] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: Vicious Minotaur wrote: JRleo jr wrote: jNs Vit4l wrote: iKILLu osborne wrote: can we get a date for charlie been waiting for 2 weeks now, i swear you'll building it up like it is the superbowl or something It''s coming after thursday''s downtime. Source, troll? Source I see... im not a brony but i find that picture a bit sexy SP earned perday/week
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 90	Posted - 2014.07.26 17:18:00 - [894] - Quote What about the eHP buff finally ? Please make it, please. Some people speak about the Commando, but they don't speak about scout. A eHP buff would improve assault against scout-tankers, that's my opinion Ho yeah Love you Rattati!
Nirwanda Vaughns 426th Infantry 655	Posted - 2014.07.26 17:26:00 - [895] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: What about the eHP buff finally ? Please make it, please. Some people speak about the Commando, but they don't speak about scout. A eHP buff would improve assault against scout-tankers, that's my opinion scouts are far too tanked out atm. one the guys i tend to squad with has a proto gal scout with an exile and 4 armor plates. he's at more HP than i get on my proto logi suit. scouts should be fast but squishy. i think they need to be more liek the old commando slot system with low slots but with the base HP that they want to balance being boosted slightly by a plate if needed and use base stats instead of modules for their performance Rolling with the punches
Greiv Rabbah KiLo. 14	Posted - 2014.07.26 17:39:00 - [896] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Centurion molokov wrote: And... What about the "pilot" dropsuit which is not even displayed on market? Do you really want a pilot suit? You better think twice what you wish for cause if there is a suit that gives bonuses to vehicles then the vehicle/modules are getting nerfbatted. Just think back about the equipment nerf when they added race specific bonuses to logistic suits. So the ultimate question would be: do you really want to skill into a proto pilot suit so that your vehicle operates exactly like it did without the pilot suit before? This would aswell mean that heavy/logistic suits in tanks/dropships would be a no go. yeah, i really want a pilot suit, not only because its the 2nd class ive been waiting for partly bc there needs to be another light class partly to give bonuses for pilots and not to non-pilots(which would reduce the effectiveness of non-gunners without breaking vehicles) and everyone i talk to agrees that the current locking system works especially well if only pilot suits can sit in the pilot seat(effectively eliminating blueberries stealing vehicles as you couldnt just randomly jack a car. besides that... vehicles are getting stripped down and now the promise of restoring them is failing and the promise of new vehicles is all but forgotten. pilot suits will give us a way to show how many of us support expanding the vehicles and creating a battlefield experience representative of how planetary conquest in new eden would and should be. the more vehicles are stripped down and broken the less useful av balancing will be. the av weapons that work without webifying, armor repping, etc wont work if vehicles move in the direction they should (the direction where we have jetpacks mtacs fighter jets webifiers remote reppers etc)
Greiv Rabbah KiLo. 14	Posted - 2014.07.26 21:13:00 - [897] - Quote Arianne Stratos wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Arianne Stratos wrote: Watch, someone already said it, but..... The Bolas. My WORST enemy. It's invisible, and i feel like the sound effect for it should be changed to the jaws sound track. I keep getting Infantry using it as a weapon against my ADS, and ya know what makes me sad? It's SUPER EFFECTIVE. Assault dropship fainted! Dust player_4763 gained 1 exp. XD Yes, glad somebody caught my reference. But ummmm..... can we get squadlock in options for vehicles? It's REALLY hard (that's what she said) to be a team player and hop out of your vehicle to hack **** when a bloobairy comes and steals your vehicle... then gets it immediately killed.... SO SAD! you know what would fix that? pilot suits and vehicles that dont operate without a pilot suit in the pilot seat. leave guns with the 4 second/20 second rule, but make the cockpit pilot exclusive so that random bluberry you never managed to kick off your turret cant drive your car/tank/airship into the redline/blaster fire/enemy vehicle/friendly vehicle(wtf!!!) etc
Greiv Rabbah KiLo. 14	Posted - 2014.07.27 02:19:00 - [898] - Quote Rusty Shallows wrote: Nirwanda Vaughns wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: * ~~Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS~~, Ambush OMS stays with vehicles and buffed installations, revisited in Delta based on new feedback. worse decision ever! at least split the 2 game modes so those who want a break from tank spam can do so! really tankers only want to come into ambush to pad out their peni... kdr. just give us a little corner of the universe to get away from vehicle spam once in a while. standard ambush matches are so much less annoying now its actually made the game a bit more enjoyable to play again. That please. My negative experience with Assault Dropships & HAVs from December 2013 through the Spring have convinced me there will never be any fair competition in Pubs. Maybe someday in Legion but never in Dust 514. I'd rather not have to exit Ambush OMS matches when they show up in rotation. and sometimes pilots and av want to stomp around blasting each other without so many pesky riflemen in the way. please do not remove OMS but instead restore its queue
OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 178	Posted - 2014.07.27 02:40:00 - [899] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. ~~Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot (maybe Delta. PG increase.~~ I'm disappointed with this. I was looking forward to the Minja becoming viable so I could skill into it. But all you did was copy paste the precision bonus from the Caldari to the Amarr, which means Amarr will be able to camp objectives and not let Minja get their speed hacks. Looks like I'd better skill into Gallente or Amarr because the other two are going to suck. Seriously why give Caldari a range AND dampening bonus... it's stupid because it only has 2 low slots. What are they gonna do, put one dampener and one range amp on? Come on. CCP, I thought I was going to start liking you again. I really did. Then you announced this event.
Ghost Kaisar Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 6135	Posted - 2014.07.27 06:18:00 - [900] - Quote OP FOTM wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. ~~Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot (maybe Delta. PG increase.~~ I'm disappointed with this. I was looking forward to the Minja becoming viable so I could skill into it. But all you did was copy paste the precision bonus from the Caldari to the Amarr, which means Amarr will be able to camp objectives and not let Minja get their speed hacks. Looks like I'd better skill into Gallente or Amarr because the other two are going to suck. Seriously why give Caldari a range AND dampening bonus... it's stupid because it only has 2 low slots. What are they gonna do, put one dampener and one range amp on? Come on. Stay away from my suit OP FOTM I've never been FOTM, and I don't want to be that way. Viable =/= OP How I Imagine I look when running Minmatar Scout PSN: EVL_Elgost105

OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 180	Posted - 2014.07.27 07:06:00 - [901] - Quote Ghost Kaisar wrote: Stay away from my suit OP FOTM I've never been FOTM, and I don't want to be that way. Viable =/= OP So you're saying you don't want enough PG to actually be able to put proto equipment and modules on every slot? You DO realize the other scouts CAN right? And you CAN'T? CCP, I thought I was going to start liking you again. I really did. Then you announced this event.
Floyd20 Azizora The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 71	Posted - 2014.07.27 08:05:00 - [902] - Quote OP FOTM wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Stay away from my suit OP FOTM I've never been FOTM, and I don't want to be that way. Viable =/= OP So you're saying you don't want enough PG to actually be able to put proto equipment and modules on every slot? You DO realize the other scouts CAN right? And you CAN'T? not unless you use several modules that use no PG. even then good luck fitting a decent gun on top of that lot. besides, i think a couple of modules are having pg nerfs.
ACT1ON BASTARD Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 36	Posted - 2014.07.27 08:16:00 - [903] - Quote OP FOTM wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Stay away from my suit OP FOTM I've never been FOTM, and I don't want to be that way. Viable =/= OP So you're saying you don't want enough PG to actually be able to put proto equipment and modules on every slot? You DO realize the other scouts CAN right? And you CAN'T? If heavies are getting nerfed so they cant fit all proto it would make sense that certain scouts recieve that nerf too.
OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 181	Posted - 2014.07.27 10:16:00 - [904] - Quote Floyd20 Azizora wrote: not unless you use several modules that use no PG. even then good luck fitting a decent gun on top of that lot. besides, i think a couple of modules are having pg nerfs. Oh. Well the Caldari on proto fits used to be able to fit all his EWAR and everything else prototype as long as he had fitting optimization up to 5... But yeah you're right. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5864 CCP, I thought I was going to start liking you again. I really did. Then you announced this event.
Floyd20 Azizora The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 71	Posted - 2014.07.27 10:35:00 - [905] - Quote OP FOTM wrote: Floyd20 Azizora wrote: not unless you use several modules that use no PG. even then good luck fitting a decent gun on top of that lot. besides, i think a couple of modules are having pg nerfs. Oh. Well the Caldari on proto fits used to be able to fit all his EWAR and everything else prototype as long as he had fitting optimization up to 5... But yeah you're right. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5864 ewar mods(profile, precision,range) are some of the cheapest mods going. There is an arugment to be made for all 3 of them being made a little harder to fit(as your fitting shows, not really streching the bounds of its cpu or pg) only downside is your hp(which means every mistake equals a death).
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 91	Posted - 2014.07.27 22:34:00 - [906] - Quote Soooo... No more answer... To speak a bit, when do you think hotfix charlie to be deployed ? Ho yeah Love you Rattati!
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 947	Posted - 2014.07.28 01:30:00 - [907] - Quote Any news on when the Minmatar bonus to explosive weapons will be returned? Dust/Eve transfers
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3738	Posted - 2014.07.28 02:59:00 - [908] - Quote ACT1ON BASTARD wrote: OP FOTM wrote: Ghost Kaisar wrote: Stay away from my suit OP FOTM I've never been FOTM, and I don't want to be that way. Viable =/= OP So you're saying you don't want enough PG to actually be able to put proto equipment and modules on every slot? You DO realize the other scouts CAN right? And you CAN'T? If heavies are getting nerfed so they cant fit all proto it would make sense that certain scouts recieve that nerf too. A proto cloak allready fullfills that role. When you use that on a proto scout you wont be aible to use in every slot complex/proto stuff. New shield module!
matthew swager THE MASSIVE DYNAMIC 4	Posted - 2014.07.28 18:37:00 - [909] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, universal changes in slot layout, one additonal slot at ADV and PRO and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. ~~Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase.~~, add Grenade fitting bonus, 5% per level. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Introduce a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. Update slots according to Universal Matrix. * Installation buff, with a range and AI range reduction, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements, both Small and Large * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. ~~Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot (maybe Delta. PG increase.~~ * Nova Knife hit detection, range and damage improvement, plus PG reduction. * ~~Reduced small rail range compared to sniper range~~ * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier., tagged for Hotfix Delta, see Slot Layout discussion thread. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * ~~Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS~~, Ambush OMS stays with vehicles and buffed installations, revisited in Delta based on new feedback. * Reduced ADS ISK price Still under tech evaluation * Disabling passive Scan sharing with squads * Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Unfair fall damage calculation Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug Hotfix Delta or later Sidearm rebalance Sniper Rifle review Efficacy bonuses Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity, Scouts, Commandos, Logistics why are you not able to do a client update and fix everything like it should be I KILL YOU!!!!!!!!
Echo 1991 WarRavens Final Resolution. 367	Posted - 2014.07.28 20:13:00 - [910] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. Shouldn't the caldari keep precision and amarr get the range bonus? I mean caldari is supposed to detect the gallente not the amarr.

Void Moose SlaughterMoose 7	Posted - 2014.07.28 22:41:00 - [911] - Quote for cloaks a change i'd like to see is being able to switch to your weapon of choice without decloaking... once you fire your cloak should break immediatly and there should be a delay before u can cloak again right away with the existing cooldowns still in effect as well that doesn't need to change. CCP Rattati wrote: John Psi wrote: Dear Rattati... We have a chance to get the promised: 1. Delay before remote explosive activation? 2. Delay before shot after decloaking? ??????????????????????????????????????? Mindless parkour just infuriates! These two issues do not seem to be a burning topic at the moment, but I will keep an eye out for them.
Void Moose SlaughterMoose 7	Posted - 2014.07.28 23:01:00 - [912] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: In my opinion vehicles should never have been in Ambush. Simple. It's not because they are unbalanced or other reasons. I would be happy to have a vehicle only mode but that's never going to happen, due to how vehicles are brought into the game, and optimization problems. I just don't think vehicles are entitled to be in every mode. We would only be punishing vehicles if they were banned from all game modes. Ambush OMS makes sense to have vehicle support and allows for access to unaccessable locations within those maps... Making the battles on the same maps differentiated by the type of tactics that are allowed. All thats needed is to just give us the choice in the battle finder between the different modes such as Skirmish with or with out vehicles. With the exception of Lav being available in all modes except regular Ambush. That way you are not making crossing the giant maps a marathon run each time, plus you aren't prohibiting players from playing whatever game type they want to play. Sure we all hate getting vehicle spammed to death but there is a better way to solve the problem than removing vehicles completely from a game mode...
Void Moose SlaughterMoose 7	Posted - 2014.07.28 23:12:00 - [913] - Quote I know this will immediatly get a bunch of hate but .... I always thought that the logi roll shouldn't be a combat one but support..... to me logis should always have had just side arms as they are suppose to be rolling around reparing peopl and not really shooting and being able to just defend themselves when their teammates go down. I'm a logi and i know that sounds drastic but i always thought that the logi roll should be that and they should get sidearm bonuses for stopping power or something along those lines.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4964	Posted - 2014.07.29 00:03:00 - [914] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Any news on when the Minmatar bonus to explosive weapons will be returned? I don't know what that means. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3830	Posted - 2014.07.29 00:08:00 - [915] - Quote Void Moose wrote: I know this will immediatly get a bunch of hate but .... I always thought that the logi roll shouldn't be a combat one but support..... to me logis should always have had just side arms as they are suppose to be rolling around reparing peopl and not really shooting and being able to just defend themselves when their teammates go down. I'm a logi and i know that sounds drastic but i always thought that the logi roll should be that and they should get sidearm bonuses for stopping power or something along those lines. No. Just no. This has never been a good idea, there's already been far too much discussion already on a topic that long ago should have been dismissed. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 948	Posted - 2014.07.29 00:43:00 - [916] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: Any news on when the Minmatar bonus to explosive weapons will be returned? I don't know what that means. Assault suit bonuses were changed to: - Amarr: heat buildup bonus - Caldari: reload bonus for rails - Gallente: less hip fire dispersion for blasters - Minmatar: 5% extra magazine size for projectile weapons per level (.........) Minmatar were also slated to get +1 magazine size/level for explosive weapons, since they have two racial types, but it was cut because lol 11-clip-mass-drivers. Could we have some sort of bonus to explosive weapons instead please? (fyi: Minmatar commandos get bonuses to both projectile and explosive light weapon damage) Dust/Eve transfers
Mejt0 Made in Poland... E-R-A 233	Posted - 2014.07.29 14:14:00 - [917] - Quote OP FOTM wrote: Floyd20 Azizora wrote: not unless you use several modules that use no PG. even then good luck fitting a decent gun on top of that lot. besides, i think a couple of modules are having pg nerfs. Oh. Well the Caldari on proto fits used to be able to fit all his EWAR and everything else prototype as long as he had fitting optimization up to 5... But yeah you're right. http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/0/5864 Ewar fitted scout can eqiup all complex ewar mods + proto gun + adv only eqiupments (only with maxed core skills and atleast 4ewar mods) Stop thinking its that good, because ewar modules are cheapest modules. When scout fits proto cloak to avoid scans, you will be left with few cpu/pg for gun and 2nd eqiupment. Every scout can fit all EWAR modules same. But dont forgot about kincats,codebreakers, some hp, links. These eats lots of pg/cpu. EDIT. You linked gal scout fitted only with ewar modules, which is bad fit. Gals eqiup ferroscales/kincats that east lot of pg. -~-~-Caldari Loyalist-~-~- Markiplier fan. Hollywood Undead ,rocks.
R-E-D-R-U-M WRONG-TURN 20	Posted - 2014.07.29 15:23:00 - [918] - Quote I can promise you this, if the 'double WP' for orbitals, goes through, I will be biomassing. YOU ARE GOING TO FAR! Full squads double.... YES Solo squads double... NO I work hard to get that 2500wp. Usually at a huge isk loss. You take that away and there is nothing left for me here. Its the ONLY thing I have to look forward to every match....... 75% of the time, I drop it on some redline snipers anyway.....
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3704	Posted - 2014.07.29 15:36:00 - [919] - Quote R-E-D-R-U-M wrote: I can promise you this, if the 'double WP' for orbitals, goes through, I will be biomassing. YOU ARE GOING TO FAR! Full squads double.... YES Solo squads double... NO I work hard to get that 2500wp. Usually at a huge isk loss. You take that away and there is nothing left for me here. Its the ONLY thing I have to look forward to every match....... 75% of the time, I drop it on some redline snipers anyway..... Later bro Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt! The eyes of God compelles you!!!
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 92	Posted - 2014.07.29 15:50:00 - [920] - Quote 4 days... And any answer by CCP (Rattato) about the eHP buff for assault And people have said the Hotfix was for today What a joke Ho yeah Love you Rattati!

OP FOTM Commando Perkone Caldari State 186	Posted - 2014.07.29 18:06:00 - [921] - Quote R-E-D-R-U-M wrote: I can promise you this, if the 'double WP' for orbitals, goes through, I will be biomassing. YOU ARE GOING TO FAR! Full squads double.... YES Solo squads double... NO I work hard to get that 2500wp. Usually at a huge isk loss. You take that away and there is nothing left for me here. Its the ONLY thing I have to look forward to every match....... 75% of the time, I drop it on some redline snipers anyway..... you're biomassing because of THIS? I'll admit I don't like it either but come on... that's really pathetic. Seriously though CCP. This is exactly like your "effort" to "stop isk farming from districts" and to "help new corps into planetary conquest" by increasing the price of a clone pack. I mean really? That backfired so badly it's not even funny. And it's exactly what you're doing here now, with doubling the OB cost. It's going to hurt new players, and make OP General Tso's Alliance squads pub stomp even harder. But you'll fix it! Right? SoonTM CCP, I thought I was going to start liking you again. I really did. Then you announced this event.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 133	Posted - 2014.07.29 21:24:00 - [922] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: SponkSponkSponk wrote: Any news on when the Minmatar bonus to explosive weapons will be returned? I don't know what that means. Assault suit bonuses were changed to: - Amarr: heat buildup bonus - Caldari: reload bonus for rails - Gallente: less hip fire dispersion for blasters - Minmatar: 5% extra magazine size for projectile weapons per level (.........) Minmatar were also slated to get +1 magazine size/level for explosive weapons, since they have two racial types, but it was cut because lol 11-clip-mass-drivers. Could we have some sort of bonus to explosive weapons instead please? (fyi: Minmatar commandos get bonuses to both projectile and explosive light weapon damage) My ideas for the Minmatar Assault explosive bonus: 1. Increase to splash radius 2. Rate of fire increase 3. Explosive projectile/missile speed increase No ammo capacity increase... just no. I also think that the Gallente and Caldari assault bonuses should also be revisited... they're just... meh. I do not understand the logic of a long range weapon needing to reload quickly, nor the hipefire reduction when the sharpshooter skills for the respective weapons already reduce the dispersion to nearly nothing. So, if you already had points in the sharpshooter skill before investing in Gallente Assault, you wasted a bunch of sp. A reload bonus for a close range weapon for the Gallente makes more sense in my opinion, but I still don't think a reload bonus is worth anything in comparison to the Amarr and Minmatar bonuses. Every racial bonus has to compare with one another at an equal footing, otherwise it just make individual suits not as worthwhile or effective. The racial bonuses (not the suit type bonus, Assault, Scout, Logi, etc.) also have to be unique to the suit (the weapon types should not have the same kind of skill, such as reload speed, hipfire reduction, ammo capacity, etc.) Perhaps a 10-15% range increase for blaster weapons would be worthy of the Gallente, and would work well for every blaster weapon, especially the Ion pistol. For the Caldari... a reduction to charge up time could work for the Rail rifle, Magsec smg, and Charge Sniper rifle, and the Bolt pistol's 0.25 second charge-up time inbetween shots could also be reduced (about a 33-40% reduction for the skill). I honestly can't think of anything else for the Caldari that would be non-game breaking yet good enough for a bonus... My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 950	Posted - 2014.07.29 21:34:00 - [923] - Quote Temias Mercurial wrote: [quote=SponkSponkSponk] My ideas for the Minmatar Assault explosive bonus: 1. Increase to splash radius 2. Rate of fire increase 3. Explosive projectile/missile speed increase I'm fine with any of these, but probably would prefer the ROF or splash damage bonus. Quote: I also think that the Gallente and Caldari assault bonuses should also be revisited... they're just... meh. I do not understand the logic of a long range weapon needing to reload quickly, nor the hipefire reduction when the sharpshooter skills for the respective weapons already reduce the dispersion to nearly nothing. So, if you already had points in the sharpshooter skill before investing in Gallente Assault, you wasted a bunch of sp. Yes and no. Dispersion shoots through the roof when strafing, so having double-sharpshooter keeps it manageable in all situations. Dust/Eve transfers
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 136	Posted - 2014.07.30 06:37:00 - [924] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Temias Mercurial wrote: [quote=SponkSponkSponk] My ideas for the Minmatar Assault explosive bonus: 1. Increase to splash radius 2. Rate of fire increase 3. Explosive projectile/missile speed increase I'm fine with any of these, but probably would prefer the ROF or splash damage bonus. (the splash bonus is most likely to get the nod from CCP since assault suits don't seem to change DPS but other characteristics of the weapons) Quote: I also think that the Gallente and Caldari assault bonuses should also be revisited... they're just... meh. I do not understand the logic of a long range weapon needing to reload quickly, nor the hipefire reduction when the sharpshooter skills for the respective weapons already reduce the dispersion to nearly nothing. So, if you already had points in the sharpshooter skill before investing in Gallente Assault, you wasted a bunch of sp. Yes and no. Dispersion shoots through the roof when strafing, so having double-sharpshooter keeps it manageable in all situations. What if caldari suits got increased zoom on hybrid rail weapons?Just a thought. Zoom is nice, but not everyone would like having that as a non-optional effect when using the Caldari Assault, but it also doesn't effect the performance of the weapon either (that would only effect the user), which it needs to in order to be comparable to the other bonuses. It really is difficult to figure out a bonus for the Caldari Assault, as the Rail Rifle is especially powerful (and is still a tad too much in my opinion... if it's still outputing 40dmg slugs, I'd prefer if it fired a bit slower), and works flawlessly at all ranges when used properly. So, finding a bonus that doesn't make the Rail Rifle overpowered yet better than normal is... difficult. The other issue I have with the hipfire bonus for the Gallente Assault is that a non-tight hipefire is a property that some players actually prefer to have, especially if they're not the greatest with their aim and not pinpoint accurate (in most cases that I know of) , but that's not the only reason why some prefer it that way. Yet again, dispersion is still not quite a weapon performance effecting bonus in comparison to the Amarr and Minmatar Assault bonuses, which effect their respective weapons immensely by increasing the total dps of their magazines. Perhaps a RoF bonus for the Gallente could also work, but it should be very slight. Maybe even a RoF and range bonus could be worthwhile. For RoF, a max of a 5% bonus should be applied, which sounds pathetic, but that increases Assault Rifle RoF from 800 to 840 (close to a Balac's of 856.14, and with that bonus, the Balac's would have a 898.947 RoF). The Caldari Assault... I really can't think of anything other than a decrease to charge-up time, which is the unique property of all Caldari Weapons (other than the swarm launcher and missile turrets). We could keep the reload bonus and just include it with the charge-up decrease I suppose... I know others thought of recoil reduction, but in actuality there is no recoil for the Rail rifle whatsoever. The sight is bouncing everywhere, but the center dot never moves... ever. It's 100% accurate. The Magsec has a little, but it's easily controllable. Sorry, that was lengthy, but thanks for the feedback and response. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 94	Posted - 2014.07.30 08:49:00 - [925] - Quote Temias Mercurial wrote: Perhaps a RoF bonus for the Gallente could also work, but it should be very slight. Maybe even a RoF and range bonus could be worthwhile. For RoF, a max of a 5% bonus should be applied, which sounds pathetic, but that increases Assault Rifle RoF from 800 to 840 (close to a Balac's of 856.14, and with that bonus, the Balac's would have a 898.947 RoF). The Caldari Assault... I really can't think of anything other than a decrease to charge-up time, which is the unique property of all Caldari Weapons (other than the swarm launcher and missile turrets). We could keep the reload bonus and just include it with the charge-up decrease I suppose... I know others thought of recoil reduction, but in actuality there is no recoil for the Rail rifle whatsoever. The sight is bouncing everywhere, but the center dot never moves... ever. It's 100% accurate. The Magsec has a little, but it's easily controllable. Sorry, that was lengthy, but thanks for the feedback and response. For Gallente : A RoF buff would become a bit OP I think... 5% a level ?! Are you crazy ? 2% is enought, with 2% you can have 880RoF that's amazing For the Caldari : Charge up time ? That's not the only bonus which can be very interresting fir the caldari... A kick reduction bonus should be very very good for the Caldari. The RR has a big kick, and it should be improve...for the assault Ho yeah Love you Rattati!
FabryX10 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 129	Posted - 2014.07.30 08:59:00 - [926] - Quote Hotfix Charlie will be released today? @CCP Rattati: How to fix Assault's shields
TechMechMeds Techs Laboratory 3969	Posted - 2014.07.30 09:42:00 - [927] - Quote When will the Hotfix be implemented?. Be vigilant!, for there are those that remove the teabag BEFORE adding milk!. This is unacceptable!.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 94	Posted - 2014.07.30 09:55:00 - [928] - Quote FabryX10 wrote: Hotfix Charlie will be released today? I think it will not... We haven't received the confirmation about the eHP buff, and not the Patchnote, so it will be difficult Ho yeah Love you Rattati!
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 137	Posted - 2014.07.30 10:03:00 - [929] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: Temias Mercurial wrote: Perhaps a RoF bonus for the Gallente could also work, but it should be very slight. Maybe even a RoF and range bonus could be worthwhile. For RoF, a max of a 5% bonus should be applied, which sounds pathetic, but that increases Assault Rifle RoF from 800 to 840 (close to a Balac's of 856.14, and with that bonus, the Balac's would have a 898.947 RoF). The Caldari Assault... I really can't think of anything other than a decrease to charge-up time, which is the unique property of all Caldari Weapons (other than the swarm launcher and missile turrets). We could keep the reload bonus and just include it with the charge-up decrease I suppose... I know others thought of recoil reduction, but in actuality there is no recoil for the Rail rifle whatsoever. The sight is bouncing everywhere, but the center dot never moves... ever. It's 100% accurate. The Magsec has a little, but it's easily controllable. Sorry, that was lengthy, but thanks for the feedback and response. For Gallente : A RoF buff would become a bit OP I think... 5% a level ?! Are you crazy ? 2% is enought, with 2% you can have 880RoF that's amazing For the Caldari : Charge up time ? That's not the only bonus which can be very interresting fir the caldari... A kick reduction bonus should be very very good for the Caldari. The RR has a big kick, and it should be improve...for the assault Clarification: Not 5% per level, a maximum of 5% for the total bonus (1% per level). The Rail Rifle really doesn't have any kick whatsoever, it's just what some fps developers refer to as 'visual kick' or 'illusionary', as the Rail Rifle sight jumps everywhere, yet the actual center dot hardly moves at all (if at all). My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 137	Posted - 2014.07.30 10:06:00 - [930] - Quote FabryX10 wrote: Hotfix Charlie will be released today? I would expect a conformation at least two weeks from now revealing the notes and information of it. A release I would expect a week after that. I wouldn't expect a release anytime soon when numbers are clearly still being crunched... My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.

JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 148	Posted - 2014.07.30 10:28:00 - [931] - Quote Temias Mercurial wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: Temias Mercurial wrote: Perhaps a RoF bonus for the Gallente could also work, but it should be very slight. Maybe even a RoF and range bonus could be worthwhile. For RoF, a max of a 5% bonus should be applied, which sounds pathetic, but that increases Assault Rifle RoF from 800 to 840 (close to a Balac's of 856.14, and with that bonus, the Balac's would have a 898.947 RoF). The Caldari Assault... I really can't think of anything other than a decrease to charge-up time, which is the unique property of all Caldari Weapons (other than the swarm launcher and missile turrets). We could keep the reload bonus and just include it with the charge-up decrease I suppose... I know others thought of recoil reduction, but in actuality there is no recoil for the Rail rifle whatsoever. The sight is bouncing everywhere, but the center dot never moves... ever. It's 100% accurate. The Magsec has a little, but it's easily controllable. Sorry, that was lengthy, but thanks for the feedback and response. For Gallente : A RoF buff would become a bit OP I think... 5% a level ?! Are you crazy ? 2% is enought, with 2% you can have 880RoF that's amazing For the Caldari : Charge up time ? That's not the only bonus which can be very interresting fir the caldari... A kick reduction bonus should be very very good for the Caldari. The RR has a big kick, and it should be improve...for the assault Clarification: Not 5% per level, a maximum of 5% for the total bonus (1% per level). The Rail Rifle really doesn't have any kick whatsoever, it's just what some fps developers refer to as 'visual kick' or 'illusionary', as the Rail Rifle sight jumps everywhere, yet the actual center dot hardly moves at all (if at all). 1% per level=completely useless and waste of sp. Like biotic upgrades. Wouldn't spec it no matter what. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 137	Posted - 2014.07.30 10:39:00 - [932] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: Temias Mercurial wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: Temias Mercurial wrote: Perhaps a RoF bonus for the Gallente could also work, but it should be very slight. Maybe even a RoF and range bonus could be worthwhile. For RoF, a max of a 5% bonus should be applied, which sounds pathetic, but that increases Assault Rifle RoF from 800 to 840 (close to a Balac's of 856.14, and with that bonus, the Balac's would have a 898.947 RoF). The Caldari Assault... I really can't think of anything other than a decrease to charge-up time, which is the unique property of all Caldari Weapons (other than the swarm launcher and missile turrets). We could keep the reload bonus and just include it with the charge-up decrease I suppose... I know others thought of recoil reduction, but in actuality there is no recoil for the Rail rifle whatsoever. The sight is bouncing everywhere, but the center dot never moves... ever. It's 100% accurate. The Magsec has a little, but it's easily controllable. Sorry, that was lengthy, but thanks for the feedback and response. For Gallente : A RoF buff would become a bit OP I think... 5% a level ?! Are you crazy ? 2% is enought, with 2% you can have 880RoF that's amazing For the Caldari : Charge up time ? That's not the only bonus which can be very interresting fir the caldari... A kick reduction bonus should be very very good for the Caldari. The RR has a big kick, and it should be improve...for the assault Clarification: Not 5% per level, a maximum of 5% for the total bonus (1% per level). The Rail Rifle really doesn't have any kick whatsoever, it's just what some fps developers refer to as 'visual kick' or 'illusionary', as the Rail Rifle sight jumps everywhere, yet the actual center dot hardly moves at all (if at all). 1% per level=completely useless and waste of sp. Like biotic upgrades. Wouldn't spec it no matter what. Well, I don't exactly consider hipefire reduction to be entirely worth it either... My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 148	Posted - 2014.07.30 10:46:00 - [933] - Quote Temias Mercurial wrote: JRleo jr wrote: Temias Mercurial wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: Temias Mercurial wrote: Perhaps a RoF bonus for the Gallente could also work, but it should be very slight. Maybe even a RoF and range bonus could be worthwhile. For RoF, a max of a 5% bonus should be applied, which sounds pathetic, but that increases Assault Rifle RoF from 800 to 840 (close to a Balac's of 856.14, and with that bonus, the Balac's would have a 898.947 RoF). The Caldari Assault... I really can't think of anything other than a decrease to charge-up time, which is the unique property of all Caldari Weapons (other than the swarm launcher and missile turrets). We could keep the reload bonus and just include it with the charge-up decrease I suppose... I know others thought of recoil reduction, but in actuality there is no recoil for the Rail rifle whatsoever. The sight is bouncing everywhere, but the center dot never moves... ever. It's 100% accurate. The Magsec has a little, but it's easily controllable. Sorry, that was lengthy, but thanks for the feedback and response. For Gallente : A RoF buff would become a bit OP I think... 5% a level ?! Are you crazy ? 2% is enought, with 2% you can have 880RoF that's amazing For the Caldari : Charge up time ? That's not the only bonus which can be very interresting fir the caldari... A kick reduction bonus should be very very good for the Caldari. The RR has a big kick, and it should be improve...for the assault Clarification: Not 5% per level, a maximum of 5% for the total bonus (1% per level). The Rail Rifle really doesn't have any kick whatsoever, it's just what some fps developers refer to as 'visual kick' or 'illusionary', as the Rail Rifle sight jumps everywhere, yet the actual center dot hardly moves at all (if at all). 1% per level=completely useless and waste of sp. Like biotic upgrades. Wouldn't spec it no matter what. Well, I don't exactly consider hipefire reduction to be entirely worth it either... Still better than a tiny, not noticeable 1% per level, hip fire is definitely noticeable. Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 94	Posted - 2014.07.30 11:36:00 - [934] - Quote I've played a lot with the RR, and it HAS a big kick Ho yeah Love you Rattati!
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 148	Posted - 2014.07.30 11:41:00 - [935] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: I've played a lot with the RR, and it HAS a big kick Burst if serious? Max level brony. Pink fluffy unicorns http://youtu.be/C34BzC7rnos Best song evar.
Nocturnal Soul Immortal Retribution 3717	Posted - 2014.07.30 11:57:00 - [936] - Quote Temias Mercurial wrote: Also, caldari charge up time woukd be worse than useless So I have 0.002 ms before shooting, or 0.2s, still...even if it fired instantly, still useless, as I never have died because I couldn't shoot instantly. I've died 5 times because of the charge on caldari weapons. Run, hide in fear while you can for the Amarr Scout is on the hunt! The eyes of God compelles you!!!
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 94	Posted - 2014.07.30 12:25:00 - [937] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: Killer's Coys wrote: I've played a lot with the RR, and it HAS a big kick Burst if serious? The assault is good, but the burst yes But.. I don't understand 5 days without news about assault eHP buff.... HHHHHHHHEEEEEEEOOOOOOOOO CCP WE ARE HERE ! WE ARE WAITING FOR HOTFIX CHARLIE FOR 1 MONTH ! HEOOOOO ARE YOU HEARING US ? Ho yeah Love you Rattati!
sabre prime Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 306	Posted - 2014.07.30 16:04:00 - [938] - Quote Have the final numbers for what is going into hotfix charlie been decided.? I thought things were still in the feedback/discussion phase. Can we get a dedicated post letting us know what the final changes have been locked as? Desperate attempt to get BPOs

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4983	Posted - 2014.07.30 19:06:00 - [939] - Quote We are still collecting feedback but we will post the final numbers this week. Those will then go into the client for QA and verification and be deployed with a Dev Blog. Thanks for your valuable feedback. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"



Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 30 :: [one page]

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online/DUST514, the EVE/DUST514 logo, EVE/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to OMG Labs to use EVE Online/DUST514 and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, OMG Labs. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.