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CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3673	Posted - 2014.07.09 18:38:00 - [1] - Quote All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. * Installation buff, with a range and AI review, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement * Small rail range compared to sniper range * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3% * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS * Reduced ADS ISK price Still under tech evaluation * Passive Scan sharing with squads * Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Unfair dall damage calculation Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug Hotfix Delta or later Sidearm rebalance Sniper Rifle review Efficacy bonuses Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3679	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:05:00 - [2] - Quote hp/s damnit "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3696	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:48:00 - [3] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Nothing on giving Gallente scout a bonus to damps/amps? I'd also like to see Caldari/Gallente assault suits get a CPU/PG boost. GA scout already has a bonus to damps? It also says increased PG/CPU for Assaults... "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3696	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:52:00 - [4] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Why remove the amarr logis sidearm? It adds variety to the game while remaining balanced. It seems like losing an equipment slot for a sidearm slot is a fair trade. This will also probably anger amarr logis who have heavily invested in sidearms. Also, don't remove ambush oms, remove regular ambush. 50 clones go far too fast. Just remove vehicles and squads from ambush oms and call it ambush. Only other thing I disagree on is giving the small rail turret a range buff. They are already in a good place and this could push them into the overpowered category. Oh one more thing. Be careful with installation AI. It seems to be really inconsistent. I have walked up to hostile turrets and hacked without taking fire, while at other times I have been sniped by rail turrets out of moving LAVs. I have also seen rail turrets take out entire squads. You could make that argument for all kinds of reasons, take away the side arm for one assault, or give one commando grenades. I don't like these kinds of inconsistencies as they are really hard to balance, and the reason for speccing into that suit is obfuscated instead of being easily compared and analysed. Small rails would not get a range buff at all, we are looking at small rails versus sniper rifle ranges. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3696	Posted - 2014.07.09 19:55:00 - [5] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: snip The Nanite Injector WP scaling is great news. Is there any possibility of squeezing in tier based scaling for repair tools aswell? While to a lesser extent, they have the exact same problem of higher tiers being a clear downgrade in purely economic terms. Also, regarding OMS. Could you elaborate on why you believe further reducing the number of game modes, Pilots and AV infantry can participate in with their preferred playstyle, is necessary? Let me use a loaded question to articulate my concern: Would you say that non-AV capable infantry players require/deserve a vehicle free game mode for the sake of it, or is this decision purely driven by current balance issues and thus a (theoretically) temporary concession? Every single FPS game that I have played has a vehicle free TDM. I see no reason why DUST 514 should not have it. I am fine with vehicles moving to Dom and Skirm because they are objective based. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3703	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:10:00 - [6] - Quote Brush Master wrote: Would like more details on making logis all the same number of equipment slots. How many slots are you going to get? As someone that runs support logi almost all the time, for pub matches, 3 can get you by but for PC battles 4 allows you to be a full support logi with all areas you can support with. +1 on scaled wp for injector. Ok, I can see the confusion brewing, logi slots PER tier will be the same, 3, for ADV, 4 for PRO etc. Amarr sidearm is changed to Equipment slot and another slot added to bring them to the same total number of slots as other races at all tiers. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3703	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:13:00 - [7] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Brush Master wrote: Would like more details on making logis all the same number of equipment slots. How many slots are you going to get? As someone that runs support logi almost all the time, for pub matches, 3 can get you by but for PC battles 4 allows you to be a full support logi with all areas you can support with. +1 on scaled wp for injector. I imagine it'll be 4 across the board. Fix the amarr logi's bonus to apply even after death!!!! please? So "good" uplinks can be left on the field, while you change to another logi? I think this is working as intended. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3704	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:27:00 - [8] - Quote The Amarr scout will have a natural low range high precision scan, moving slowly and tanking because of close proximity. The Gallente scout will be the dampener master, being able to be unscannable by sacrificing a lot of slots. The Caldari scout will be the natural long range, low ehp hunter. All of them have the ability to change either add range, dampening or precision to alter their desired utility. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3706	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:34:00 - [9] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. People who skilled into Caldari scout did so for the precision bonus, and not the range, for me personally it was the deciding factor; a lot of people will feel like your proposed changes invalidates their decision. On top of that, the Amarr scout has nough low slots to stack a ton of dampeners, giving the Amarr scout both precision AND dampening capacity could make them too strong. I propose allowing Caldari keep precision, and Amarr gain range (5% per level). Logi changes: feels like pointless nerfs are happening without looking at the real issues. There is no reason for the sidearm/equipment changes. Many Amarr logis have invested heavily into sidearms, this change could render a lot of their spent SP wasted. Why does the Amarr logi have less module slots at proto than other logis? Other logis have 8 or 9 (Caldari) module slots at proto, while the Amarr proto logi has only 7 module slots. I'm fine with Amarr logi sacrificing an equipment slot (which it does) to gain that sidearm, OR I'm fine with it sacrificing a module slot to gain that sidearm, but it shouldn't sacrifice both these things. You already determined that the Amarr assault having less modules than the others was incorrect, why is it ok for the Amarr logi to have less slots at proto? At proto, Amarr should either gain a module slot (without the cost of losing the sidearm, explained why earlier). Logi slot progression in general is crazy. Gallente starts with only 2 modules at standard, Caldari starts with 3, and Amarr and Minmatar starts with with 4; there is no clear reasoning or discernible tradeoff to justify the inconsistency. At advanced, both Minmatar and Amarr logis have 6 module slots, while other logis have only 5. At proto the Amarr logi has 7 module slots, most have 8, and for SOME REASON the Caldari has 9; the Caldari should have 8, but gain an equipment slot. Removing the cloak bonus seems pointless to me, its not creating a balance issue, and needs to more variety of the battlefield when scouts aren't the only users of cloaks. Other than that, I guess its good I would suggest reviewing the racial bonuses for the assaults. Both the Amarr and Minmatar assaults have good bonuses; allows them to keep shooting longer before stopping from overheat/magazine-depletion. I would suggest giving the Gallente and Caldari assault magazine size bonuses to their racial weapons. The Caldari assault reload bonus is pretty crappy considering the Caldari commando gets the same reload bonus in addition to a damage bonus. I have a Gallente assault level 5 alt account, and I find the Gallente assault bonus almost unnoticeable on my AR. So yeah, magazine increase bonuses have proven useful already, you should use them for the Caldari and Gallente assaults. Please read #42. Also, we plan to revisit slots on necessity. Assault is the first to receive such a thorough review. I frankly don't care about the cloaked logis, it's just silly that Logi's would get a higher bonus than scouts, it is definitely unintended and is getting fixed. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3706	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:35:00 - [10] - Quote Luther Mandrix wrote: I think the changes are ok as the less equipment carried the more logi becomes slayer. Cloaks are for scouts. Assaults have sidearms Idea Devs to keep logi from using cpu and pg for not equipping slots have a base cpu and pg automatically deduct from unused equipment slots so no more slayer logi. We will rather reduce logi PG/CPU and raise the equipment fitting bonus to encourage. We discussed making equipment slots mandatory for logis but it's too harsh. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"



CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3710	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:43:00 - [11] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. People who skilled into Caldari scout did so for the precision bonus, and not the range, for me personally it was the deciding factor; a lot of people will feel like your proposed changes invalidates their decision. On top of that, the Amarr scout has nough low slots to stack a ton of dampeners, giving the Amarr scout both precision AND dampening capacity could make them too strong. I propose allowing Caldari keep precision, and Amarr gain range (5% per level). Logi changes: feels like pointless nerfs are happening without looking at the real issues. There is no reason for the sidearm/equipment changes. Many Amarr logis have invested heavily into sidearms, this change could render a lot of their spent SP wasted. Why does the Amarr logi have less module slots at proto than other logis? Other logis have 8 or 9 (Caldari) module slots at proto, while the Amarr proto logi has only 7 module slots. I'm fine with Amarr logi sacrificing an equipment slot (which it does) to gain that sidearm, OR I'm fine with it sacrificing a module slot to gain that sidearm, but it shouldn't sacrifice both these things. You already determined that the Amarr assault having less modules than the others was incorrect, why is it ok for the Amarr logi to have less slots at proto? At proto, Amarr should either gain a module slot (without the cost of losing the sidearm, explained why earlier). Logi slot progression in general is crazy. Gallente starts with only 2 modules at standard, Caldari starts with 3, and Amarr and Minmatar starts with with 4; there is no clear reasoning or discernible tradeoff to justify the inconsistency. At advanced, both Minmatar and Amarr logis have 6 module slots, while other logis have only 5. At proto the Amarr logi has 7 module slots, most have 8, and for SOME REASON the Caldari has 9; the Caldari should have 8, but gain an equipment slot. Removing the cloak bonus seems pointless to me, its not creating a balance issue, and needs to more variety of the battlefield when scouts aren't the only users of cloaks. Other than that, I guess its good I would suggest reviewing the racial bonuses for the assaults. Both the Amarr and Minmatar assaults have good bonuses; allows them to keep shooting longer before stopping from overheat/magazine-depletion. I would suggest giving the Gallente and Caldari assault magazine size bonuses to their racial weapons. The Caldari assault reload bonus is pretty crappy considering the Caldari commando gets the same reload bonus in addition to a damage bonus. I have a Gallente assault level 5 alt account, and I find the Gallente assault bonus almost unnoticeable on my AR. So yeah, magazine increase bonuses have proven useful already, you should use them for the Caldari and Gallente assaults. Please read #42. Also, we plan to revisit slots on necessity. Assault is the first to receive such a thorough review. I frankly don't care about the cloaked logis, it's just silly that Logi's would get a higher bonus than scouts, it is definitely unintended and is getting fixed. I'm now confused. The logi bonus is 5% per level fitting cost reduction, yet the scout is 15% per level. Are you sure the logi's cloak fitting thing is actually higher? I have both proto scout and a proto logi, and I don't think its the case, I could be wrong, but you should double check. Also, I'm really happy about the ADS price cut (as with many things on the list), no playstyle should be financially unsustainable. For some reason I had 25% versus 15% for scouts, thanks for the correction. We can drop the removal of the bonus to cloaks no problem. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3710	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:44:00 - [12] - Quote Thokk Nightshade wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: All, * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. * Does this mean the Cal Logi is going to get 4 equipment slots now? All equivalent tiers of all dropsuits will have the same number of total slots, and same sum of high and low slots. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3710	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:47:00 - [13] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: Removing the A Logis sidearm?? Please no! Who is asking for this? This was the best part of this suit and the only reason I skilled it. What is it taking away from? Not the Amarr Assault. Everyone I've read has agreed forever that that except for the slot issue (which was fixed right?) the Amarr Assault was the only Assault that was working as intended (good bonus anyway). Look, I have all 4 Logis, and play all but the Cal, that sidearm is the only reason to play that suit! I'll run a min for the speed and slot layout, or a Gal for the Tank, slot layout and bonus every time over the Amarr Logi, if not for that sidearm. And why would you slow us down?? We already have Massive stamina disadvantages, our speed is required to keep us in support of our close surroundings. Look, buff assaults please, they need it, but not at the expense of the Logis. Give the assaults weapon bonus that make since, give them some more speed and stamina if you thing the amount they have already isn't enough, but don't further nerf the Logis. Remember we took a Massive hit earlier this year with the loss of out rep bonus and nerf to equipment giving us bonuses that tried to lock us into specific roles. Most of us rightfully complained about that. I thought that was enough. Didn't that take us off the nerf bat radar? I don't see massive amounts of threads about the slayer Logis anymore, and I don't see them in game. Now all I see are these death balls of 3 Logis repping each other and 1 or 2 heavies. I think the sad part here is that there isn't more uproar over this because all the old "slayer Logis" had the biggest mouths left for scout suits leaving the real Logis behind to quietly fend for themselves. I'm sorry but our data shows that logis outnumber assaults by a huge margin. Nothing about this change will make logis worse at being logis. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3717	Posted - 2014.07.09 20:57:00 - [14] - Quote P14GU3 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: You could make that argument for all kinds of reasons, take away the side arm for one assault, or give one commando grenades. I don't like these kinds of inconsistencies as they are really hard to balance, and the reason for speccing into that suit is obfuscated instead of being easily compared and analysed Read as: we at ccp have no clue how to balance properly, so we are breaking your character to make it easy for us... I am going to reiterate that in formal dev feedback threads, posts are expected to be constructive and civil. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3723	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:01:00 - [15] - Quote John Psi wrote: Dear Rattati... We have a chance to get the promised: 1. Delay before remote explosive activation? 2. Delay before shot after decloaking? ??????????????????????????????????????? Mindless parkour just infuriates! These two issues do not seem to be a burning topic at the moment, but I will keep an eye out for them. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3730	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:31:00 - [16] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: snip The Nanite Injector WP scaling is great news. Is there any possibility of squeezing in tier based scaling for repair tools aswell? While to a lesser extent, they have the exact same problem of higher tiers being a clear downgrade in purely economic terms. Also, regarding OMS. Could you elaborate on why you believe further reducing the number of game modes, Pilots and AV infantry can participate in with their preferred playstyle, is necessary? Let me use a loaded question to articulate my concern: Would you say that non-AV capable infantry players require/deserve a vehicle free game mode for the sake of it, or is this decision purely driven by current balance issues and thus a (theoretically) temporary concession? Every single FPS game that I have played has a vehicle free TDM. I see no reason why DUST 514 should not have it. I am fine with vehicles moving to Dom and Skirm because they are objective based. Sure, but most FPS games don't have a long-term skill investment into those vehicles. Trust me when I say that I don't like where vehicles are at without them having a clear cut significant role to play on the battlefield beyond just slaying (which most infantry already do), but I was against taking them out of Ambush and now that we're taking them out of Ambush OMS... I'm starting to wonder where this is going to end. Don't remove them from the game-mode JUST BECAUSE every other game has a vehicle-free game mode, in fact, I'd argue that that's the -LAST- reason you should have to remove them from a game mode. It's important to understand that, even if it's over-powered as hell, it's still in the game and people are still choosing this as their play-style. By removing that play-style from certain game modes, you're effectively punishing the player for making that choice and limiting their options. My primary question is -WHY- are we removing them from the game modes? Because they're powerful? Of course they are, that's how they were designed. They were designed without any role to play -OTHER- than slaying and moving people around. Let me don the tin foil for a second and be clear of what I'm trying to illustrate, in order of the timeline of events: Black Ops HAVs were removed because they were in a weird place. Marauder HAVs were removed because they were too powerful. Scout LAVs, Logistics LAVs, Logistics Dropships, and Enforcer HAVs were removed because they were in a weird place. Removed all of the variants of turrets (stabilized, etc) and completely overhauled the modules. Removed vehicles from Ambush. Now we're removing vehicles from Ambush OMS. I get that they're unbalanced, I get that they're a pressure point, but if you ask me, I think these changes are being made because vehicles were designed poorly from the get go. Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm fully willing to accept that possibility, but it's starting to look like that poor design isn't being evaluated correctly and the slippery slope of trying to deal with them is taking effect. What functional role can vehicles perform that infantry can't? Why should they perform that role? What are the ways that they can be designed to perform that role? What are the ways we can consider that doesn't make that role over-powered? That's all I got to say on that. Will post my other thoughts on the hotfix in a separate post. In my opinion vehicles should never have been in Ambush. Simple. It's not because they are unbalanced or other reasons. I would be happy to have a vehicle only mode but that's never going to happen, due to how vehicles are brought into the game, and optimization problems. I just don't think vehicles are entitled to be in every mode. We would only be punishing vehicles if they were banned from all game modes. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3752	Posted - 2014.07.09 21:53:00 - [17] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: P14GU3 wrote: Thats all well and good IWS, but coming from someone who was a gallente logi from beta-the most recent respec, carrying a swarm with no sidearm is a death wish. The PLC is not very good at AV or anti-infantry, and the MD (although one of my favorite weapons) and laser are no where near the "AV" mark. If the PLC was in a better place you could get away with calling it the "logi's AV," but its not worth it. Swarms with a sidearm or nothing at all. So now I'm reduced to a repping forgers while the enemy team has AV. You take that back about the PLC it is an amazing AV weapon! Generally because most vehicle people don't realize how amazing of an AV weapon it is until its too late. pro hives, pro av nades and plc is a pretty decent logi av fit. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3752	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:06:00 - [18] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Loving the Codebreakers moved to highslot idea. That really helps Gallente Role Players like me. On another note could you talk about what variable you want to increase FW LP by? Also do you think it possible to reward those that have already played FW with a special gift for each level or level amount to reward our loyalty in such trying times? I think Kagehoshi made a strong case for 2-3 fold, to be able to sustain a LP fitting lifestyle. You and fellow roleplayers can help on an idea I have on LP standings. Keep an eye out for a new topic. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3763	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:27:00 - [19] - Quote lithkul devant wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. * Installation buff, with a range and AI review, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement * Small rail range compared to sniper range * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS * Reduced ADS ISK price I have a few questions if I may ask them. 1. How much of a boost to LP are we talking about what are the theoretical numbers going to be? Currently Factional wars feel to be very low reward for a higher amount of risk then pubs. Especially since you can be trolled much easier in a factional then a pub, especially since the system does not kick people out quickly enough for "farming" Example, I was once killed 6 times in a row or more by a person on my team, they had a friend revive me with a militia injector then kill me as my character was doing a standup animation. How do you intend also to fix the heavy amount of trolling posibilities within factional? 2. By how much will the HMG heat be going up? Will you also be raising the amount of damage that HMGs do to vehicles in order to compensate, since this will be a nerf to total damage available. 3. While on the topic of vehicles, will any of the old mods for vehicles be comming back ever or not till legion? 4. How much of a PG/CPU nerf are you going to be doing to sentinels? Heavy suits are often used by new players in order to have enough reaction time to survive, will these also be affected? 1 Considerable 2 17, 18, enough to make it a skill weapon rather than spray and pray 3 If we are convinced, some might be brought back 4 Some, f.ex. pro GA can fit literally all proto with pg/cpu to spare "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3788	Posted - 2014.07.09 23:40:00 - [20] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: Remove the sidearm from the only proto suit i've been able to afford and that pretty much seals the deal for me to never return to Dust. I understand the idea of normalizing the slot layouts but I feel its the wrong way to go personally. The sidearm on the Amarr Logi is what made that suit fun. Having experienced having a sidearm and 3 equipment I could never go back to only having a single weapon. I honestly can't see a reason why you would run a logistics suit over a scout unless you want to run a minmatar medic suit. Amarr logi bridged the gap between minmatar medic and scout-logis. If you look at the numbers, something tells me the Amarr and Minmater logi suits probably greatly outnumber the caldari and gallente logis now. Its not hard to imagine why that might be, uplinks and rep tools are by far the most useful equipments available. I would love to see the number on logi sutis in general, in pubs there are enough WP farmers running rep tools to keep the numbers high but in general they are becoming rather underpowered in general. With scouts and heavies the way they are after 1.7 and 1.8 it seems that straight buffs to the medium suits make more sense to me. imho... adding a sidearm to caldari and doing a slot normalization that way makes much more sense. You have caldari and amarr as 'combat logi' suits with bonuses more oriented towards being near the frontline (uplinks and ammo) while minmatar and gallente logis would be more inclined to focus on their 'active equipment' using rep tools and scanners more in general and not being so inclined to need a sidearm. The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance. The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"



CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3855	Posted - 2014.07.10 08:24:00 - [21] - Quote The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. The slowest Logis would still of course move faster than the fastest heavy, something like +0.05 on the Assault or -0.05 on the Logi. So if that's the biggest worry, we have no problem in only buffing the Assault speed. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3861	Posted - 2014.07.10 09:08:00 - [22] - Quote Hawkings Greenback wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. The slowest Logis would still of course move faster than the fastest heavy, something like +0.05 on the Assault or -0.05 on the Logi. So if that's the biggest worry, we have no problem in only buffing the Assault speed. This is not the biggest worry & neither have I said such. I am having trouble comprehending 'why ?' for any of the logi changes. If this: CCP Rattati wrote: The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. is the only reason, then it is a poor one. Again give the assault bonus a look at PROPERLY as opposed to half arsing it & screwing with logi's which I think are in an ok position, ( the Caldari logi is one I don't see often tbh ) My main points : Assault bonus aren't desirable, otherwise you would see them more often. Assaults have no niche, ALL suits tread on assault suits territory. Amarr side arm slot loss, it was touted as a combat logi ( same as the scout suit ). I like the fact that it can be aggressive & can look after itself. Logi slot homogenisation, just have one logi suit if they are all to be the same. Reduced logi speed, the battlefield is a much more dynamic / fast / fluid place. As a logi I have to be able to keep up. I am no use to anyone if I am coming in behind everyone else & then got SG'd in the bank by flanking scouts. More logis than assaults, well sorry, but duh !! Assault suit bonus, the ever increasing population of heavy suits & the fact that logi can fulfill a role on the battlefield is not the logi suits fault. Also heavy & scout are BETTER than an assault. So why run an assault suit ? I am not trying to be horrible but I still have not had a valid reason why logi should bear the responsibility to make assaults look a better option. Seriously NO ONE has explained why apart from : There are more logis than assaults, there are more anything than assault suits on the field. The logi shouldn't move as fast as an assault, I know heavies that move faster than logis so logic should dictate that heavies need a speed nerf, yes ? ( not actually wanting a heavy speed nerf ) No other logi has a side arm, but it looses a slot to negate that. Again sorry if it appears like ranting, need coffee To recap, you don't like the speed change, that I have already said probably won't happen, and the changing of 1 sidearm to an EQ and a high/or low slot on the A-logi? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3861	Posted - 2014.07.10 09:15:00 - [23] - Quote That's sort of where we see this going, rather than fitting penalties. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3862	Posted - 2014.07.10 09:27:00 - [24] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: That's sort of where we see this going, rather than fitting penalties. So yes to my idea? This is something we have been discussing internally for some time now as a way to encourage certain fittings, instead of enforcing them by let's say only letting heavies use heavy weapons, etc. which is not in line with our philosophy. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3869	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:22:00 - [25] - Quote Changes made to OP, logi speed not reduced plus some clarificications. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3869	Posted - 2014.07.10 11:24:00 - [26] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Me and Cat have suggested revisions to some of the current assault bonuses and have made our suggestions, are there any plans to do any assault bonus changes in Charlie or future hotfixes? if so, can you share any? I think that the addition of a slot to Amarr Assault, on top of their high PG/CPU has shown how effective a fitting buff can be. We will be looking better at efficacy bonuses in Delta. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3875	Posted - 2014.07.10 12:02:00 - [27] - Quote Snake Sellors wrote: I don't understand the heavy cpu/pg reduction. I'm a calsent and I already can't full proto fit my proto suit, why is it being made worse? PLEASE if you are going with this make sure you include the heavy weapon fitting bonus and make it a good one. also as you are trying to stop heavies from using light weapons here (i'm assuming) could you at least start looking into some more heavy weapons? at the moment a heavy will only have a choice of two.. its kind of limited. the GA sentinel is the worst offender, it will be based on slots and not the same reduction for all races "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3889	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:38:00 - [28] - Quote Thang Bausch wrote: * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. Have you considered adding a fitting bonus for damage mods in addition to light weapon fitting bonus, or add a fitting bonus for the sidearm too. The latter would keep differentiation between the commando and assault. Light damage mods is high on my list for Assault efficacy bonuses "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3891	Posted - 2014.07.10 13:42:00 - [29] - Quote ZDub 303 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance. The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. I'm reposting this from another thread in hopes that either your or Logibro will read it. You guys need to stop and ask yourselves what the role of the Caldari and Amarr logistics is on the field. They both drop passive equipment, and once that is done (literally takes about 1-2s to drop an uplink or nanohive) what is supposed to be their purpose on the battlefield? If you think all logis should then pull out their rep tool and start repairing, then why would anyone run anything but Minmatar Logi? Simply for aesthetics? If a logi suit is supposed to spend the majority of their time repping, then there is almost no reason for any other logi suit to exist than the min logi, because it is specifically bonused for that. The Minmatar and Gallente logi suits are centered around active equipment, that is, equipment you spend most of your time using. The Caldari and Amarr logi suits are centered around passive equipment, which leaves them free to pursue other non logistics tasks like slaying. This also makes sense as both of these passive equipment are meant to be more around the frontline, the Caldari and Amarr Logi need their combat efficacy to protect their passive equipment. You need to think about each suits role on the field and how to better reinforce that idea. Gallente/Minmatar Active Equipment High Mobility Low combat efficiency High Logistics efficiency Amarr/Caldari Passive equipment Low mobility Moderate combat efficiency Low logistics efficiency If you remove the sidearm on Amarr logi and give them a 4th equip slot, they just become a poor copy of the Min/Gal suits. They still have low logistics efficacy because their bonuses are not designed for logistics efficiency. If you serious about type-II versions. Then you need to completely rethink the bonuses so that the high logistics efficiency variant has a bonus to active equipment and the combat efficiency variant has a bonus to passive equipment to better reinforce the role of each suit. You would essentially need to make a set of medic suits centered entirely around the nanite injector and rep tool. While the combat version would be around passive equipment like hives and links. Every suit would have close to the same bonus, and the flavor would come from the slot layout. You could give the combat logi a L/S and the medic an S or S/S setup and boost the speed and hp of the medic up substantially to reinforce the role that they should be running around repping and reviving. If you move forward with this as it is though, you will essentially render the non-Minmatar logi suits obsolete. I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3918	Posted - 2014.07.10 15:09:00 - [30] - Quote possible rearrangements, not more slots. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"



CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3925	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:00:00 - [31] - Quote Moonracer2000 wrote: Curious how logistic suits will be balanced out with equipment slots. Will they use whatever count proto has? I mean, I skilled into proto minmatar logistics for the 4 equipment slots. I don't want to lose that, but then again It would be kind of insane if my STD logi has 4 equipment slots! Yes to making codebreakers a high slot module! The same number of equipment per tier "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3925	Posted - 2014.07.10 16:06:00 - [32] - Quote of course not "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Frame C C P C C P Alliance 3000	Posted - 2014.07.11 01:26:00 - [33] - Quote I would like to remind everyone that: CCP Rattati wrote: This is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Please keep your feedback as constructive as possible, and we will listen. :) CCP Frame


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4372	Posted - 2014.07.16 21:12:00 - [34] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Was fixing the racial suit slot layouts addressed? Amarr - Most low slots Gallente - High number of low slots Caldari - Most high slots Minmatar - Even to 1 more high slot than low For example Assault's lots layout: Highs/Lows - (Previous layout) Amarr - 2H 5L - (3H 4L) Gallente - 2H 5L OR 3H 4L - (Same)/- Caldari - 5H 2L - (4H 3L) Minmatar - 4H 3L - (5H 2L) Logistics' slots layout: Highs/Lows/Equipment/Sidearm - (Previous layout) Amarr - 3H 5L 3E 1S - (Same) Gallente - 3H 5L 4E 0S - (Same) Caldari - 5H 3L 4E 0S - (5H 4L 4E 0S) Minmatar - 4H 4L 4E 0S - (Same) Sentinel's lots layout: Highs/Lows - (Previous layout) Amarr - 1H 4L (2H 3L) Gallente - 1H 4L OR 2H 3L - (Same)/- Caldari - 3H 1L - (Same) Minmatar - 3H 2L - (Same) take a look at the slot layout thread - stickied "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4551	Posted - 2014.07.19 15:06:00 - [35] - Quote Edited OP "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4560	Posted - 2014.07.19 18:28:00 - [36] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Edited OP I will be looking forward to an explanation of the decisions. I believe that the slot layouts were a good move, perhaps we will hear more in the future. To your and Kagehoshi's point. I do not feel that the equalized layout of slots per role per tier, nor the logi changes (f.ex. having two sidearm logis with passive equipment (CA and AM) versus the two active logis with no sidearms, nor the amarr/gallente reversal, nor the larger spread ideas of 4-1 instead of 3-2 and 5-2 instead of 4-3 new layouts were received favorably. If we can revisit that thread and actually give us proper feedback in a fashion like "I agree with giving GA logis more slots and STD and ADV, but I do not like X and Y", we can maybe still keep some changes. Until then, this initiative is delayed until Delta or later. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4638	Posted - 2014.07.21 21:13:00 - [37] - Quote Clone D wrote: I don't see the addition of stats to the fittings screen in your list. We have been asking for this for a long time. Currently, we have to use spreadsheets and 3rd party tools. Please make this a priority for charlie. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=157525 This is unanimous amongst all players. There has been no bickering about adding these stats. We want them! They are also not in the Charlie narrative and will not be in Charlie nor Delta. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4638	Posted - 2014.07.21 21:17:00 - [38] - Quote We will be coming back with final numbers on Logi slot counts Assault slot counts and layouts Assault PG/CPU Sentinel PG/CPU The other feedback threads will be retired soon as there is consensus that they are pretty good HMG heat Improved Sniper Reticule Nova Knifes Scout and EWAR All, thanks for participating, but we are not done yet with Charlie. Watch this space. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4641	Posted - 2014.07.21 23:00:00 - [39] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We will be coming back with final numbers on Logi slot counts Assault slot counts and layouts Assault PG/CPU Sentinel PG/CPU The other feedback threads will be retired soon as there is consensus that they are pretty good HMG heat Improved Sniper Reticule Nova Knifes Scout and EWAR All, thanks for participating, but we are not done yet with Charlie. Watch this space. Is the assault hp buff still on the table for Charlie? I haven't heard much on that 100% "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4661	Posted - 2014.07.22 23:50:00 - [40] - Quote Updated OP. See slot layout feedback thread for details. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"



CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4693	Posted - 2014.07.23 16:13:00 - [41] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Aww codebreakers are not going to be highslot modlules . You make me a sad panda rattati. There is a technical issue, not a design issue, moving a module between high and low has not been done before and it had unintended consequences. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4964	Posted - 2014.07.29 00:03:00 - [42] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Any news on when the Minmatar bonus to explosive weapons will be returned? I don't know what that means. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4983	Posted - 2014.07.30 19:06:00 - [43] - Quote We are still collecting feedback but we will post the final numbers this week. Those will then go into the client for QA and verification and be deployed with a Dev Blog. Thanks for your valuable feedback. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

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