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CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1267	Posted - 2014.07.10 17:35:00 - [481] - Quote CCP Rattati..... I really appreciate the time you are taking to discuss with us here in the community as well as address issues that are coming up. I have saw two or three things that worry me however. Firstly - Reducing Sentinel PG/CPU. I have no idea what it is like for the Armour guys but seriously The Caldari sentinel already has a hard time trying to fit out a full shield tank. (Regulators, rechargers / energizers) while using proto forge and proto sidearms. (I am a forger no idea about HMG`s). I would urge caution as making the Caldari Sentinel even weaker in terms of PG/CPU would be a bad idea I feel. (CPU issues mainly) Secondly - I saw that you mentioned about the Amarr scout becoming a short range good scanner and the Caldari scout being the long range scanner. I am very worried about this. The Gallente scout was supposed to be the long range passive scanner (while having not as powerful scans). The Caldari scout was meant to have shorter range passive scans yet with a higher precision. It seems like you are flipping roles on their heads and I do not understand. I would appreciate clarification here please. Lastly - The Amarr Logistics having a sidearm was the selling point of that suit. The uplink bonus is pretty weak on its own. Also being an Amarr suit, removal of the sidearm would also in my humble opinion limit the usefulness of the Single shot scrambler rifle (due to overheat issues) as well as the Laser Rifle... (Again due to overheat issues with no side arm to switch to in dire times). MY LIFE FOR AIUR! Protoss You gonna' give me orders? Terran "Cat got your tongue? Zerg Queen of Blades.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 10792	Posted - 2014.07.10 17:35:00 - [482] - Quote Quote: - Actually, it creates one trivial choice based on fitting costs. This adds to player agency and gameplay how? How is it trivial? Why do you think CPU/PG exists in the first place? In EVE, fitting a full rack of T2 weapons comes at a great cost of other modules. In DUST you fit a proto weapon and just lolololol more proto! Also, if you don't try to kin cat or use codebreakers on the Minnie scout, it still has buttloads of CPU/PG. Quote: -Agree. But if that's the case, what makes more sense: to look at the fitting capacity of the suits themselves, or to restrict player agency to impose class distinctions that should be supported in interesting ways by the suit's inherent bonuses? I choose the latter. Both do the EXACT same thing in different ways. One requires changing every suit, the other requires changing one class of weapons. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2158	Posted - 2014.07.10 17:39:00 - [483] - Quote Biggest issue... Is I have been through the Installation buff and unbuff process in DUST through the nearly two years.. And we have touched upon them probably over 8 times. It's not that the A.I. vs infantry needs to be addressed. It's actually really good, specially if you shoot it with your weapon it will turn around and blap you like your standing still. We want the turrets to be giant points of contention for infantry fights.. We want to create a somewhat focal point to the necessity of it to control that part of the map. So somehow it needs the A.I. Cranked up on all vehicles and then the health value and shield recharge rate increased by significant amounts. Blasters need the same bullet spread as tank blasters. This will create the NEED to actually capture or use team work to remove it as a threat. *****P.S*** Please, please. If you do anything with turrets. Can you remove some of the absolutely useless Missile turrets that cause so much hate and anger in squad comms no matter on my 2m sp alt in a new player corporation or on this character with some vets. There is a Missile turret on Ashlands that sits between two building structures that couldn't get a proper hit on anything if it tries.. Then it sits out of reach of a supply depot and neighboring turret structure that it fires endlessly at for no reason. Just remove it. please. please. please. over a year ... it is time...
Denesian Morenti The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 24	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:01:00 - [484] - Quote Just want to say: THANK YOU RATTATI!!!! It's so nice to see Dust getting the corrections it so rightly deserved! I like my raspberries melted with a side of ice cream.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15859	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:03:00 - [485] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Sole Fenychs wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Can I haz Type II Assault? I miss chromosome I see Type II suits mentioned multiple times in this thread. What did they do? Edit: Vrain Matari wrote: ROF is a dps increase. A 25% dps increase at lvl 5 suit operation is going to drive TTL through the floor. Not interested in going down that road again. It does differentiate Assault and Commando, though. RoF isn't a flat DPS increase, but instead a trade of sustained fire for damage output. It forces earlier reloads. Meanwhile, Commandos get more flat damage. Essentially, this would mean that Commandos are about using their armor and dual light weapons to prolong fights and suppress enemies, while Assaults are the ones doing killing blows with their high DPS, nimble feet and grenades. If we go from this, we might actually differentiate the roles properly. Type IIs are a different variant of the suit that has the same role as the type I but drastically different slot layout. For example a Type II assault may have a second EQ slot but gives up all but 1 of its non tank slots for it. The Type IIs in Beta were the Shield variants. The scout had a second equipment slot but game up its side arm, if you want more Dust examples. You could consider the commando a type II heavy frame. Type IIs back then was a way to try to provide racial placeholders to say. Type II in this case would be an more elegant solution considering that you now get two choices in a suit. Do you go with the one with sidearm or one without? CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 415	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:14:00 - [486] - Quote The True Inferno wrote: For the Assualt skill, could it not be focused on the racial weapons, as this limits freedom. It should be focused on the suit, such as th old ones were, such as, the 25 % sheild bonus we found on the caldari assault, instead of the weapons(freaked reload speed) not having racial bonuses allows lesser beings to contaminate the races with outlandish fittings. in other words, having racial bonuses encourages players to use specific items on specific suits. this allows for easier balancing, as "correct" fits will be easy to predict. its done that way in eve online. the freedom you speak of come from not being forced to fit according to bonuses, at the cost of lesser general effective use of the suit. i think all item should have bonuses of reduce fitting costs when used with racial dropsuits. it would give more distinction between the races
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 415	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:16:00 - [487] - Quote Denesian Morenti wrote: Just want to say: THANK YOU RATTATI!!!! It's so nice to see Dust getting the corrections it so rightly deserved! we needed this back in beta
RedPencil DUST University Ivy League 24	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:19:00 - [488] - Quote Can you increase walking speed when equip knife?
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 520	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:25:00 - [489] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: The True Inferno wrote: For the Assualt skill, could it not be focused on the racial weapons, as this limits freedom. It should be focused on the suit, such as th old ones were, such as, the 25 % sheild bonus we found on the caldari assault, instead of the weapons(freaked reload speed) not having racial bonuses allows lesser beings to contaminate the races with outlandish fittings. in other words, having racial bonuses encourages players to use specific items on specific suits. this allows for easier balancing, as "correct" fits will be easy to predict. its done that way in eve online. the freedom you speak of come from not being forced to fit according to bonuses, at the cost of lesser general effective use of the suit. i think all item should have bonuses of reduce fitting costs when used with racial dropsuits. it would give more distinction between the races So, basically, you want to make the fitting system into a pointless gimmick. There is no point in customization if there's an optimal way of doing things. Unfortunately, Dust doesn't have the necessary systems in place to allow for racial synergies of loadouts, instead of doing hacky bonuses.
Denesian Morenti The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 24	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:28:00 - [490] - Quote Doyle Reese wrote: Beren Hurin wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3% 1-2-3 HP/s repaired? ....or 1-2-3% armor resists!!! it's %, so it's likely to be speed penalties, which I'm not down with, Reactive Plates are still the worst plates there is No, it's a repair buff. basic = 1hps advanced = 2hps proto = 3hps I like my raspberries melted with a side of ice cream.

Denesian Morenti The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 24	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:29:00 - [491] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Denesian Morenti wrote: Just want to say: THANK YOU RATTATI!!!! It's so nice to see Dust getting the corrections it so rightly deserved! we needed this back in beta I agree, but better late....really late, than never. I like my raspberries melted with a side of ice cream.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6224	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:40:00 - [492] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. So, if the Amarr Logi has a sidearm it's an inconsistency and doesn't need to be unique among the flock like Grenade Commandos or what have you... ...but it's totally cool if the Caldari Logi has a sidearm. That's racist. In all seriousness though, why go through this big hoopla to convince the community that removal of the sidearm on the Amarr Logi is necessary and all that jazz just to turn around and go against that very same logic in favor of the Caldari Logistics? I mean, if you're wanting to convince people that CCP isn't showing favoritism toward Caldari you're doing a terrible job Okay, okay, I'm sorry - I'll try not to be so sarcastic anymore, but you make it really difficult. ...but seriously, you really need to stick to one train of thought.... or at the very least, not post it in the same thread that you suggested taking the sidearm away from one of the other logistics. Disappointed in you now, Rattati Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5308	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:42:00 - [493] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. So, if the Amarr Logi has a sidearm it's an inconsistency and doesn't need to be unique among the flock like Grenade Commandos or what have you... ...but it's totally cool if the Caldari Logi has a sidearm. That's racist. In all seriousness though, why go through this big hoopla to convince the community that removal of the sidearm on the Amarr Logi is necessary and all that jazz just to turn around and go against that very same logic in favor of the Caldari Logistics? I mean, if you're wanting to convince people that CCP isn't showing favoritism toward Caldari you're doing a terrible job Okay, okay, I'm sorry - I'll try not to be so sarcastic anymore, but you make it really difficult. ...but seriously, you really need to stick to one train of thought.... or at the very least, not post it in the same thread that you suggested taking the sidearm away from one of the other logistics. Disappointed in you now, Rattati EVE: Nerf everything and buff Minmatar Dust 514: Nerf everything and buff Caldari I kid, I kid. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 520	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:44:00 - [494] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. So, if the Amarr Logi has a sidearm it's an inconsistency and doesn't need to be unique among the flock like Grenade Commandos or what have you... ...but it's totally cool if the Caldari Logi has a sidearm. That's racist. In all seriousness though, why go through this big hoopla to convince the community that removal of the sidearm on the Amarr Logi is necessary and all that jazz just to turn around and go against that very same logic in favor of the Caldari Logistics? I mean, if you're wanting to convince people that CCP isn't showing favoritism toward Caldari you're doing a terrible job Okay, okay, I'm sorry - I'll try not to be so sarcastic anymore, but you make it really difficult. ...but seriously, you really need to stick to one train of thought.... or at the very least, not post it in the same thread that you suggested taking the sidearm away from one of the other logistics. Disappointed in you now, Rattati Dude, he's asking for feedback and listened to a valid point. Did you somehow miss the point of the thread? Hint: It's not about pretending that there's community input.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6224	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:46:00 - [495] - Quote Mobius Wyvern wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. So, if the Amarr Logi has a sidearm it's an inconsistency and doesn't need to be unique among the flock like Grenade Commandos or what have you... ...but it's totally cool if the Caldari Logi has a sidearm. That's racist. In all seriousness though, why go through this big hoopla to convince the community that removal of the sidearm on the Amarr Logi is necessary and all that jazz just to turn around and go against that very same logic in favor of the Caldari Logistics? I mean, if you're wanting to convince people that CCP isn't showing favoritism toward Caldari you're doing a terrible job Okay, okay, I'm sorry - I'll try not to be so sarcastic anymore, but you make it really difficult. ...but seriously, you really need to stick to one train of thought.... or at the very least, not post it in the same thread that you suggested taking the sidearm away from one of the other logistics. Disappointed in you now, Rattati EVE: Nerf everything and buff Minmatar Dust 514: Nerf everything and buff Caldari I kid, I kid. Yeah, I know, it's too easy to joke about, but it really does make a vein twitch when that post was the first thing I read after waking up considering the huge amount of [redacted] that got stirred up last night upon the announcement that we were even -considering- removal of the sidearm on the A-Logi. Makes me wonder what the real reason for removing the sidearm on the A-Logi is in the first place if it isn't to have consistency among the Logistics, but I might be tin-foiling. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6449	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:58:00 - [496] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. So, if the Amarr Logi has a sidearm it's an inconsistency and doesn't need to be unique among the flock like Grenade Commandos or what have you... ...but it's totally cool if the Caldari Logi has a sidearm. That's racist. In all seriousness though, why go through this big hoopla to convince the community that removal of the sidearm on the Amarr Logi is necessary and all that jazz just to turn around and go against that very same logic in favor of the Caldari Logistics? I mean, if you're wanting to convince people that CCP isn't showing favoritism toward Caldari you're doing a terrible job Okay, okay, I'm sorry - I'll try not to be so sarcastic anymore, but you make it really difficult. ...but seriously, you really need to stick to one train of thought.... or at the very least, not post it in the same thread that you suggested taking the sidearm away from one of the other logistics. Disappointed in you now, Rattati I've been saying this since day one. CCP has a blatant, disgusting, favoritism to the Caldari. see you space cowboy...
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 749	Posted - 2014.07.10 18:58:00 - [497] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Type IIs back then was a way to try to provide racial placeholders to say. Type II in this case would be an more elegant solution considering that you now get two choices in a suit. Do you go with the one with sidearm or one without? I don't agree with you often IWS, but on this thought I am 100% with you. My fear is that adding a whole new line of Type II Logi suits would be a little more work that what could fit in a Hotfix, and could really put balance into a tailspin when we are so close to stablization for the fist time in Dust. I think a lot more thought than current resources would allow ATM is required before this could be done. However, in effect, we do have a Sudo Type II Logi suit that much of the community loves and no one seems to really want to change. The arguement that removing it helps Assaults is only going to make the amarr Logis AND the Assaults mad because it's still doesn't fix the Assaults. I do think giving the Cal Logi a side arm and removing a slot in return is a Great idea. That would make since for the current gap of a type II playstyle that the community has proven time and time again they enjoy, and only 1 suit that fills the role. As for the Assaults, listen to the community, give the Assault advocates what they want, make them OP for a time if need if nothing other than to get players interested in them for the first time since launch. Because I'm sure that little minor, delicate tweets just isn't going to be enough to put people into a 1 trick pony role unless that pony's trick is backflips! YouTube
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3495	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:02:00 - [498] - Quote I say it again we need a DPS buff for assaults. Slayers= high DPS and my 25% rate of fire buff is the most reasonable option to complete the roles on the game which we have currently: -scouts= flanking/intel -logis= team support with equipment -heavys= point defence with high DPS up close and lots of HP -assaults= faster then heavys but with similar DPS but much less HP (with my proposal of 5% rate of fire per lvl ofcourse) So what would be the issue here? Logis hiding behind heavy allready, scouts only attack from the side/back and heavys still have their HMG and tons of HP. Assaults should be capable to compete at least to a extend with heavys in terms of DPS otherwise there is no option for them. And you guys seem to forget that assaults cannot effectively use a cloak and cant really scan like scouts and to take it even further they have less HP then a heavy. Let them have the DPS. PS: they wouldnt overlapp with commandos cause assaults can carry only 1 light weapon. Which means swarm launcher/Rifle combo is a no go. Oh and the caldari assault would help out snipers to get more shots off quicker.
Fizzer94 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2882	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:03:00 - [499] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. So, if the Amarr Logi has a sidearm it's an inconsistency and doesn't need to be unique among the flock like Grenade Commandos or what have you... ...but it's totally cool if the Caldari Logi has a sidearm. That's racist. In all seriousness though, why go through this big hoopla to convince the community that removal of the sidearm on the Amarr Logi is necessary and all that jazz just to turn around and go against that very same logic in favor of the Caldari Logistics? I mean, if you're wanting to convince people that CCP isn't showing favoritism toward Caldari you're doing a terrible job Okay, okay, I'm sorry - I'll try not to be so sarcastic anymore, but you make it really difficult. ...but seriously, you really need to stick to one train of thought.... or at the very least, not post it in the same thread that you suggested taking the sidearm away from one of the other logistics. Disappointed in you now, Rattati I've been saying this since day one. CCP has a blatant, disgusting, favoritism to the Caldari. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The Caldari have as many sidearms(3) as the Amarr have total weapons(3). My best match on Dust, 23/6/4 Placon. Please unnerf ScPs and fix IoPs...
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6225	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:05:00 - [500] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: I do think giving the Cal Logi a side arm and removing a slot in return is a Great idea. That would make since for the current gap of a type II playstyle that the community has proven time and time again they enjoy, and only 1 suit that fills the role. Buuuuuuut we already have a suit that does that. It's teh A-Logi! I dunno, maybe I'm missing something. Like, having a Logistics with a sidearm isn't something new - I don't understand why the Cal Logi is a much more perfect contender when it's already one of the more powerful Logi's in the game and has been for some time. Saying that it would make sense for the current gap of a Type-II playstyle... When we already have a suit that has that... I dunno, just seems like a flawed argument. I can't understand why we're saying that having a sidearm is this giant pipe wrench in balance (and I even agreed!) and then turn around and pretend it wouldn't be a problem on the Cal Logi. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6452	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:08:00 - [501] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I do think giving the Cal Logi a side arm and removing a slot in return is a Great idea. That would make since for the current gap of a type II playstyle that the community has proven time and time again they enjoy, and only 1 suit that fills the role. Buuuuuuut we already have a suit that does that. It's teh A-Logi! I dunno, maybe I'm missing something. Like, having a Logistics with a sidearm isn't something new - I don't understand why the Cal Logi is a much more perfect contender when it's already one of the more powerful Logi's in the game and has been for some time. Saying that it would make sense for the current gap of a Type-II playstyle... When we already have a suit that has that... I dunno, just seems like a flawed argument. I can't understand why we're saying that having a sidearm is this giant pipe wrench in balance (and I even agreed!) and then turn around and pretend it wouldn't be a problem on the Cal Logi. Nothing makes sense anymore. I feel like I'm in some novel where I'm having a nightmare and mostly everyone on Earth is stupid. see you space cowboy...
shagnasty91 The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 2	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:12:00 - [502] - Quote What if you increased light weapon reload time for all light weapons. Give the Assault class the same bonus as the Commandos in reload speed and give Scouts and Logis a bonus to sidearms.
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 253	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:25:00 - [503] - Quote shagnasty91 wrote: What if you increased light weapon reload time for all light weapons. Give the Assault class the same bonus as the Commandos in reload speed and give Scouts and Logis a bonus to sidearms. Not to be rude but this is a flawed idea. Why would Assaults have the same bonus as ANOTHER class, when the Commando class can then out DPS them? Scouts getting a bonus to sidearms...no. Scouts will still use their light weapons, so I don't know how this would entice them. If anything, they'll wound you with their Light weapon and just finish you off quicker with their Submachine Gun so that isn't a good idea. Logi getting a bonus to Sidearms, I'm not putting a Bolt Pistol on my Proto Minmatar Logi. I NEVER will put a Sidearm on my Minmatar Logi. Another flawed idea This is how the suits work: Assaults kill Scouts because they can keep firing long past when a scout has to reload. They also keep the frontline up because they lay down suppressive fire. Commandos are Assault's big brother. They slay extremely quickly and can reload to dispatch targets in quick succession. Drawbacks: Slower to arrive and they run out of ammo quickly. Heavies can easily kill Commandos and Assaults with their massive HMGs and their DPS, IF they are skilled before their gun overheats Logis keep heavies alive and cover their while their gun cools down. Slightly faster than Commandos, Slots allow them to keep up with Assaults if they put on some Kincats, or tank and become Commandos minus DPS and Second gun Scouts, the bane of Heavies. They flank around and are harder to hit. Downside, (and I think this would balance the suit), they have less ammo in their guns. This would endorse non tanked Scouts to RE and shot gun, which they already do. Tanked out scouts like the Amarr or Slayer Gallentes would be hampered because they get less rounds to fire fight you with. Assaults would win these engagements if skilled because they can keep firing while Scouts reload. From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
Tomate Pote LATINOS KILLERS CORP Dark Taboo 3	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:26:00 - [504] - Quote And the biggest question is... There will be another Skill Reset ? Tomate Pote, Logi Aidualc , Scout Maxnami, Fatty
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 253	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:29:00 - [505] - Quote Doubtful they'll be a skill reset. From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 749	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:29:00 - [506] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I do think giving the Cal Logi a side arm and removing a slot in return is a Great idea. That would make since for the current gap of a type II playstyle that the community has proven time and time again they enjoy, and only 1 suit that fills the role. Buuuuuuut we already have a suit that does that. It's teh A-Logi! I dunno, maybe I'm missing something. Like, having a Logistics with a sidearm isn't something new - I don't understand why the Cal Logi is a much more perfect contender when it's already one of the more powerful Logi's in the game and has been for some time. Saying that it would make sense for the current gap of a Type-II playstyle... When we already have a suit that has that... I dunno, just seems like a flawed argument. I can't understand why we're saying that having a sidearm is this giant pipe wrench in balance (and I even agreed!) and then turn around and pretend it wouldn't be a problem on the Cal Logi. No, No. Don't misunderstand. You'd have to look back over several pages of argument (discussion) to get the full picture. We are NOT saying remove the sidearm from the A-Logi. A quick summary to catch you up. Ratti said he was taking the A-Logi sidearm away. Community LOST their minds (at least I did) Community pointed out that the Amarr bonus sucks compared to the Active bonuses of the Min (repper) and Gal (Scanner) and that in order to utilize the Amarr bonus (links) the Amarr needed to be a reasonable fighter. (There were plenty of other arguments, but this is what spawned the Cal Logi discussion) Then it was pointed out that the Cal Logi also had a passive logi bonus (hives) thus a similar logi style to the Amarr, thus should actually get a sidearm. Logi Community agrees And there was much rejoicing! YouTube
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6452	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:30:00 - [507] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I do think giving the Cal Logi a side arm and removing a slot in return is a Great idea. That would make since for the current gap of a type II playstyle that the community has proven time and time again they enjoy, and only 1 suit that fills the role. Buuuuuuut we already have a suit that does that. It's teh A-Logi! I dunno, maybe I'm missing something. Like, having a Logistics with a sidearm isn't something new - I don't understand why the Cal Logi is a much more perfect contender when it's already one of the more powerful Logi's in the game and has been for some time. Saying that it would make sense for the current gap of a Type-II playstyle... When we already have a suit that has that... I dunno, just seems like a flawed argument. I can't understand why we're saying that having a sidearm is this giant pipe wrench in balance (and I even agreed!) and then turn around and pretend it wouldn't be a problem on the Cal Logi. No, No. Don't misunderstand. You'd have to look back over several pages of argument (discussion) to get the full picture. We are NOT saying remove the sidearm from the A-Logi. A quick summary to catch you up. Ratti said he was taking the A-Logi sidearm away. Community LOST their minds (at least I did) Community pointed out that the Amarr bonus sucks compared to the Active bonuses of the Min (repper) and Gal (Scanner) and that in order to utilize the Amarr bonus (links) the Amarr needed to be a reasonable fighter. (There were plenty of other arguments, but this is what spawned the Cal Logi discussion) Then it was pointed out that the Cal Logi also had a passive logi bonus (hives) thus a similar logi style to the Amarr, thus should actually get a sidearm. Logi Community agrees And there was much rejoicing! But...Cal Logi still doesn't need a sidearm... see you space cowboy...
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6226	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:40:00 - [508] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I do think giving the Cal Logi a side arm and removing a slot in return is a Great idea. That would make since for the current gap of a type II playstyle that the community has proven time and time again they enjoy, and only 1 suit that fills the role. Buuuuuuut we already have a suit that does that. It's teh A-Logi! I dunno, maybe I'm missing something. Like, having a Logistics with a sidearm isn't something new - I don't understand why the Cal Logi is a much more perfect contender when it's already one of the more powerful Logi's in the game and has been for some time. Saying that it would make sense for the current gap of a Type-II playstyle... When we already have a suit that has that... I dunno, just seems like a flawed argument. I can't understand why we're saying that having a sidearm is this giant pipe wrench in balance (and I even agreed!) and then turn around and pretend it wouldn't be a problem on the Cal Logi. No, No. Don't misunderstand. You'd have to look back over several pages of argument (discussion) to get the full picture. We are NOT saying remove the sidearm from the A-Logi. A quick summary to catch you up. Ratti said he was taking the A-Logi sidearm away. Community LOST their minds (at least I did) Community pointed out that the Amarr bonus sucks compared to the Active bonuses of the Min (repper) and Gal (Scanner) and that in order to utilize the Amarr bonus (links) the Amarr needed to be a reasonable fighter. (There were plenty of other arguments, but this is what spawned the Cal Logi discussion) Then it was pointed out that the Cal Logi also had a passive logi bonus (hives) thus a similar logi style to the Amarr, thus should actually get a sidearm. Logi Community agrees And there was much rejoicing! Ah, okay, I see now... Although, I think this is a pretty big cog in the overall balance of things at the expense of just having the Cal/Amarr Logi bonus apply after death but not with a suit change. So if you die, the bonus isn't lost, but if you change suits after death or at a supply depot, it would be. It makes sense that Logistics would -NOT- have sidearms as a means of encouraging them to actually Logi instead of Slay, giving them the opportunity to do so as a means of circumventing doing things correctly is the problem we've always had with Dust 514 and I think we should go the extra mile to make sure it is, in fact, done correctly. The bonuses applying to passive equipment (DU and Nanohive) is more reason, to me, NOT to give them a sidearm in the first place because once you drop the stuff there's no further reason to continue playing the Support Role unless you really like using those other equipment pieces. I just don't see much popularity in running all DU or all Nanohive fits. My concern is that players will drop their passive equipment and reap the benefits while slaying. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
501st Headstrong G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 253	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:43:00 - [509] - Quote I have yet to see an Amarr Logi slaying and not dropping ammo or anything... From the Clone Wars I came. Here, I am a man among tamed beasts, and a god...among men.- 501st Headstrong.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 329	Posted - 2014.07.10 19:44:00 - [510] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I do think giving the Cal Logi a side arm and removing a slot in return is a Great idea. That would make since for the current gap of a type II playstyle that the community has proven time and time again they enjoy, and only 1 suit that fills the role. Buuuuuuut we already have a suit that does that. It's teh A-Logi! I dunno, maybe I'm missing something. Like, having a Logistics with a sidearm isn't something new - I don't understand why the Cal Logi is a much more perfect contender when it's already one of the more powerful Logi's in the game and has been for some time. Saying that it would make sense for the current gap of a Type-II playstyle... When we already have a suit that has that... I dunno, just seems like a flawed argument. I can't understand why we're saying that having a sidearm is this giant pipe wrench in balance (and I even agreed!) and then turn around and pretend it wouldn't be a problem on the Cal Logi. No, No. Don't misunderstand. You'd have to look back over several pages of argument (discussion) to get the full picture. We are NOT saying remove the sidearm from the A-Logi. A quick summary to catch you up. Ratti said he was taking the A-Logi sidearm away. Community LOST their minds (at least I did) Community pointed out that the Amarr bonus sucks compared to the Active bonuses of the Min (repper) and Gal (Scanner) and that in order to utilize the Amarr bonus (links) the Amarr needed to be a reasonable fighter. (There were plenty of other arguments, but this is what spawned the Cal Logi discussion) Then it was pointed out that the Cal Logi also had a passive logi bonus (hives) thus a similar logi style to the Amarr, thus should actually get a sidearm. Logi Community agrees And there was much rejoicing! But...Cal Logi still doesn't need a sidearm... Please explain to me how the Caldari Logi gets stronger by removing one high slot of the currently five he have at proto level (+plus the removal of an equipment slot I guess), and adding a sidearm? I for one support the idea. zDub 303 made a very convincing argument.



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