DUST Search - Hotfix Charlie

bogeyman m wrote:

John Demonsbane wrote:

bogeyman m wrote:

John Demonsbane wrote:

Xak Arji wrote:

Also, why do we need to change logi at all? There is nothing wrong with them. The focus needs to be an assaut suit adjustment, most likely centered on DPS.

The thought is, work on both medium frames simultaneously. It does make a lot of sense, as both are in pretty rough spots right now. If they intent to normalize slot counts across the 2 classes (which also makes some sense), it would be pointless to do one without the other.

As for the Amarr logi, I'm not sure that an equipment slot AND a low (primary tank) slot is a fair trade for the sidearm. 1 equipment slot seems fairly equitable to me. At worst, an equipment slot and a high slot makes more sense than a low. Just like the Amarr assault(well, until bravo), the high/low slot balance makes no sense considering the way the suit is otherwise intended/set up, as a high buffer armor tanking suit.

It's slow and has no inherent reps like the Gallente, and doesn't have the shield regen of the Caldari or Minmatar, so WTF are you supposed to do with it? The only choice is to brick tank since the damage mod nerf. And that's lame.

I'll tell you what you can do with it... (Hehehe. You asked.)

One sidearm = one equipment... Done.

Correct proto Amarr high/low slots to 5/3 or 3/5 (don't care which)... Done.

Fix Amarr uplink bonus ending on death flaw. As long as you stay in an Amarr suit, your racial bonus should continue... Done.

Not sure what all the hassle is. Git 'er dun!

PS - Anti-slayer Logi prevention: lower Logi CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF all the equipment slots are filled.

PPS - Assault un-neutering program: lower Assault CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF all the high and low slots are filled.

PPPS - Scout re-leveling initiative: lower Scout CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF a cloak and (at least) one ewar module are used. (Also, remove inherent armour repair from Gallente.)

Sounds good to me, with the exception of the underlined sections. Here's why, in reverse order:
1) Amarr suits should have more low slots than high, so 3/5.

2) Gallente are supposed to be based on Armor regen. 3 might be too high, but you can't take it completely away.

3) You've oversimplified the maths on the anti-killer bee part:

- Requiring all the equip slots to be filled sounds good but is less effective than you think; compact hives are great for slayers and use minimal fitting resources. That said, I've pushed the idea for close to a year now, so I don't disagree with it, just realize that the true impact will be fairly small.

- Dropping the CPU/PG by 10% and increase the fitting bonus by 10% is actually a big time nerf. Not all the CPU/PG of the suit is used up by equipment, so the math is never this easy:

To repeat an example I've used a few times, picture a suit with 300 CPU. Typically 200 would be used for modules/weapon, and 100 probably for equipment (this information is based on the low-equipment Amarr logi and basically comes from my arse; it may not be completely accurate but gets the point across). If you were to drop the suit CPU by 10% and increase the fit bonus by 10%, you lose 30 CPU total but only save 10 CPU from the new bonus.

It becomes complicated in that, since not all the suits have the same amount of equipment slots, you can't easily determine what the best combination of fitting power reduction and fitting bonus increase would be (this is basically why CCP wants to equalize the slot counts and take away the Amarr sidearm, to make this kind of balance proposition easier).

What you need to do is make a large sample of multiple fittings from each race, and determine the ratio of CPU/PG total vs that devoted to equipment. Averaging that ratio you can then say, well, if we are going to decrease the total by 10%, we need to increase the fitting bonus by x, which, using my above example, would be 30% since the ratio is 3:1. Hopefully they would choose to overshoot the bonus.

Okay...

1) Amarr gets 3/5 plus 3 equip plus sidearm. Sold!

2) Gallente are alpha-armour tankers with lots of lows to fit repair mods... They don't need inherent repair. Add bonus to repair mods if needed.

3) Maths... Reduce total CPU/PG 10% and increase equipment bonus by 30% (or 25%, whatever works).

All fixed. I don't see why this stuff is so difficult for folks...


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 43 post(s)
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 618	Posted - 2014.07.13 17:36:00 - [1] - Quote I can comment very little on scout, assault, and heavy changes. BUT when it concerns logis I must get involved. I have played each Race and can go on about each variation that makes up a Logistics suit. This Proposal ....: * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. Is inadequate if any change is to be made - as these are not the changes that should be made at this time. Is unnecessary - when there has been no dominant problem other than slayers jumping classes - logis have stayed logis. Is retribution for imbalances that exist in other classes and not the logistics class. Is attempting tiericide that eliminates racial differences H/L/E slot counts that in turn benefited the natural base stats of each option. Is without basis in the community... thus, this must be either whim or stem from some analysis of data. AMARR And The SideArm The Amarr sacrifices more than an equipment slot for a side arm. While it does have the largest base hp (a whole 30!) more than the others it cannot compete in any tanking competition - it will always lose to the suits with more slots. The rest of its stats are pretty crap as well (basis for logis) - lacking slot count, horrible speed, WORST RACIAL BONUS EVER, and lower PG so that it can't even fill its Bonus Assigned Role effectively. It is reasonable the worst Logistics choice ever. THE ONLY REASON, really, to use this logi is to be a half logi half assault character with none of the bonuses from either. To this end it can use all Logi equipment as well as an assault - no bonuses - (Drop Uplinks are not Logi items - that is a separate discussion) and use a weapon and sidearm with no bonuses either that would come from the assault side. The only benefits is to have some equipment on hand for the team (or yourself) and semi slay-and/or semi-logi that's it. The GAL beats it in Tank and EQ. Minmatar in Tank and EQ. and CAL beats it in tanking and its slaying abilities because of all its slots. And yet I love to play this logi - because it is a challenge. The Amarr pays to high a price for the wealth of one side arm slot. But it is the only thing it has - the side-arm is the racial bonus. If that is removed it truly has no value outside of a PC battle. Tiericide for Logis If this is a test - communicate it as such. Perhaps we would be willing with a plan that can be explained - so I guess we are still waiting for the details (i just haven't seen them). IF it is not just a test CCP wants to conduct then lets get into the details of HOW will the slots and equipment be equalized? will it be H/L/E: 5/4/3 or 4/5/4 or 4/4/4 or 3/3/4? A 4/5/4 Amarr logi would be awesome but a 3/3/4 Amarr is old news and not really a change beyond one more equipment slot that couldn't be filled due to pg/cpu limits. ARE we going back to the old Minmatar Standard that was in the old days for all logi support? will this mean that all suits will be flattened? Racial diversity diminished? boiling this whole game into separate classes, same stats between them, and only costume differences? I WOULD REALLY LIKE SOME MORE DETAILS! IF so there will be another re-balancing act when this all hit the other classes as well. IFF we are going to do this lets do it right and open up a DEV thread for balancing. IN MY view the logi of each race should have the equal H/L slots of its ASSAULT brother (but that needs a whole balancing review as well) with lower base stats and more equipment slots. I think it would be great to be able to swap a side arm for a grenade slot and vice versa.... if we were throwing ideas into the pot that is. SUMMARY: Leave the AMARR side arm for now. Present us with this Tiericide Proposal so we can rip it up/add our experience to the idea. Generally a bad moment to just drop this out of the blue with other issues needing priority. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 621	Posted - 2014.07.13 19:58:00 - [2] - Quote Returning to the AMARR SIDEARM and TIERECIDE for LOGI's SLOT LAYOUT With some more education and carefully perusing the thread the summary is to make each logi have the same number of H/L/E slots at each tier, not that each slot layout would be the same regardless of race - meaning we are all not going to be 4/4/4 regardless of race. Meaning: Min Proto: 12 total slots so each logi has 12 slots at proto with 4 of those being equipment. EXAMPLE: MIN 4/4/4 GAL 3/5/4 CAL 5/3/4???? AMR 3/5/4???? The change sounds like it includes each tier having the same amount of available equipment slots. If that means that each starts with 2 std, 3 adv, 4 pro or 3 std, 3adv, 4 pro I don't know - we don't have those details yet. AMARR SLOT and SIDE ARM Honestly it needs to keep the weapon and stay at the 3 max equipment it achieved at ADV level because it sucks so much at general logi-ing the sidearm is what gives it the small push to be a little more and even viable as a logi. So the greater question is how to balance it if we keep the sidearm. Do we draw in the Caldari or Galente to also have a side arm and lose one of their coveted slots? That wont fly... well maybe with the Caldari - sorry I just don't see many of them on the field, ever - just my experience. The draw of the Caldari was the Slot layout - but the CPU nerf shut them down hard - they too can't always fit their intended racial bonus equipment. So, do we draw a High slot and make them a 4/4/3 logi with a sidearm? Well now that beats the crap out of the Amarr 3/4/3 with a sidearm. Well then perhaps the slot adjustments would look like this: CAL 5/3/3 + SA or 4/4/3 + SA if AMR 3/5/3 + SA or 4/4/3 + SA as well.... The first iterations are more likely if we were to see that a sidearm = 1eq slot. The Amarr in general need to be brought up to slot parity to equal their defined qualities - if they tank armor they should have the lows to do so and beat Gallente at it (thus the slightly higher base HP - old argument but still true) but that goes for all of the Amarr classes. Also MEDUIM suits must have the same H/L slots in each branch of ASSAULT and LOGI making it the equipment and Weapon specializations that define their roles. Further Role Differentiation But please, above all remember that this is an FPS and as such even a logi needs to defend, attack, and sometimes have those PWN Moments to brag about. Logis pay a heavy price (yes ISK too) for carrying equipment - sucky base stats - and to further define the role I do like the increase in fitting bonuses described by the devs and then equalizing the MED suits and the other suggestions to have the racial equipment bonuses apply to all logi suits, just in lesser degrees as a role bonus. SO that logis can always logi better than any other class regardless of the logi used. This is more acceptable than most other changes, but how to fix the assaults?... I don't know, that's not my specialty. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 625	Posted - 2014.07.15 20:03:00 - [3] - Quote bogeyman m wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: bogeyman m wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Xak Arji wrote: Also, why do we need to change logi at all? There is nothing wrong with them. The focus needs to be an assaut suit adjustment, most likely centered on DPS. The thought is, work on both medium frames simultaneously. It does make a lot of sense, as both are in pretty rough spots right now. If they intent to normalize slot counts across the 2 classes (which also makes some sense), it would be pointless to do one without the other. As for the Amarr logi, I'm not sure that an equipment slot AND a low (primary tank) slot is a fair trade for the sidearm. 1 equipment slot seems fairly equitable to me. At worst, an equipment slot and a high slot makes more sense than a low. Just like the Amarr assault(well, until bravo), the high/low slot balance makes no sense considering the way the suit is otherwise intended/set up, as a high buffer armor tanking suit. It's slow and has no inherent reps like the Gallente, and doesn't have the shield regen of the Caldari or Minmatar, so WTF are you supposed to do with it? The only choice is to brick tank since the damage mod nerf. And that's lame. I'll tell you what you can do with it... (Hehehe. You asked.) One sidearm = one equipment... Done. Correct proto Amarr high/low slots to 5/3 or 3/5 (don't care which)... Done. Fix Amarr uplink bonus ending on death flaw. As long as you stay in an Amarr suit, your racial bonus should continue... Done. Not sure what all the hassle is. Git 'er dun! PS - Anti-slayer Logi prevention: lower Logi CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF all the equipment slots are filled. PPS - Assault un-neutering program: lower Assault CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF all the high and low slots are filled. PPPS - Scout re-leveling initiative: lower Scout CPU/PG levels 10% and give a bonus of 10% IFF a cloak and (at least) one ewar module are used. (Also, remove inherent armour repair from Gallente.) Sounds good to me, with the exception of the underlined sections. Here's why, in reverse order: 1) Amarr suits should have more low slots than high, so 3/5. 2) Gallente are supposed to be based on Armor regen. 3 might be too high, but you can't take it completely away. 3) You've oversimplified the maths on the anti-killer bee part: - Requiring all the equip slots to be filled sounds good but is less effective than you think; compact hives are great for slayers and use minimal fitting resources. That said, I've pushed the idea for close to a year now, so I don't disagree with it, just realize that the true impact will be fairly small. - Dropping the CPU/PG by 10% and increase the fitting bonus by 10% is actually a big time nerf. Not all the CPU/PG of the suit is used up by equipment, so the math is never this easy: To repeat an example I've used a few times, picture a suit with 300 CPU. Typically 200 would be used for modules/weapon, and 100 probably for equipment (this information is based on the low-equipment Amarr logi and basically comes from my arse; it may not be completely accurate but gets the point across). If you were to drop the suit CPU by 10% and increase the fit bonus by 10%, you lose 30 CPU total but only save 10 CPU from the new bonus. It becomes complicated in that, since not all the suits have the same amount of equipment slots, you can't easily determine what the best combination of fitting power reduction and fitting bonus increase would be (this is basically why CCP wants to equalize the slot counts and take away the Amarr sidearm, to make this kind of balance proposition easier). What you need to do is make a large sample of multiple fittings from each race, and determine the ratio of CPU/PG total vs that devoted to equipment. Averaging that ratio you can then say, well, if we are going to decrease the total by 10%, we need to increase the fitting bonus by x, which, using my above example, would be 30% since the ratio is 3:1. Hopefully they would choose to overshoot the bonus. Okay... 1) Amarr gets 3/5 plus 3 equip plus sidearm. Sold! 2) Gallente are alpha-armour tankers with lots of lows to fit repair mods... They don't need inherent repair. Add bonus to repair mods if needed. 3) Maths... Reduce total CPU/PG 10% and increase equipment bonus by 30% (or 25%, whatever works). All fixed. I don't see why this stuff is so difficult for folks... I think you guys nailed it. While there should be a great amount of caution in adjusting PG/CPU if it can be equalized with the MED FRAME ASSAULTS so that the only real difference is the base stats and bonuses there would be a much greater impediment to creating a Slayer Logi - if that is indeed the concern. What I'm envisioning is having the tiers of MED Frames match in PG/CPU and H/L slots but having the class and skill bonuses making them able to fit as we do now. It might have to be ridiculous, like a 75% or 90% total to equipment PG/CPU cost but I believe it will force a decision point. I see a logi and assault from the same tier being able to equip all of the same H/L slot modules and still have the same remaining PG/CPU - or very close. But then adding the same tier equipment to the logi and adding the same tier Weapons to the Assault now leave the suits nearly maxed out - allowing both some fitting room for EQ for the Assault and a weapon for the Logi (and sidearm if Amarr). Perhaps I will do some fittings tonight and come back with some numbers, If anyone else has some insight I would appreciate some direction if this has already been done. I will be returning in another 7 Hours. While I will do what I can It will be up to the Devs to use it or not, but I like this direction. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 627	Posted - 2014.07.18 09:37:00 - [4] - Quote A PROPOSAL I know that CCP must have data or ideas that justify certain setups. I am also pleased that there has been a move to rectify many subjects to create an evolving game that achieves a greater balance and immersion. My beef is with the MED Frame inequalities (LOGI and ASSAULT). There is a tension between the two because there is a lack of definition with the ASSAULT type MED frame. The LOGI is well defined and remains unique and is in a good place that will be better with the proper slot adjustments. The difficulty in CCPGÇÖs position is that it has yet to make the ASSAULT Frames the defining go to suits. IGÇÖm sure that if IGÇÖm not outright just stealing the idea by not crediting authors it is only that I agree with your positions and wanted to emphasize them again, but I offer this suggestion that I like. Defining the MED Frames The SLOT ADJUSTMENT is a good start, but too little to move the ASSAULTS to where they will be a dominating force. It hardly seems logical that a LOGI is the same ASSAULT suit that sacrifices base stats (EHP, potential, speed, shield recharge, stamina and recharge, etc.) and their side arm (mostly) then gets to carry all this great equipment AND have more high(H) and low(L) slots. The ASSAULT will only stand out when there is a defining difference between the two frames that makes the choice for a slayer obvious and the choice for a support role obvious. Make the ASSAULTs mean. THE H/L SLOT LAYOUT of each MED FRAME equal to each other or higher for ASSAULTS. THE CPU/PG is EQUAL or higher for LOGIS but each can fit all Proto MODS and Proto GEAR (LOGI EQ and ASSAULT LW, SA) Keep the LOGI stats as they are now. ASSAULT stats as they are now, but more HP as planned. First the LOGI A LOGIGÇÖs power in MODules and EQuipment Here the slot counts are all Equal to 8, 10, 12. BUT not all should be the same GÇô keeping a little flavor with the equipment bearers is cool. (and I support the Logi bonus changes) UNIQUE Logis GÇô (3EQ, Side Arm, Module Focus) AMARR SIDE ARM (Best Choice GÇô Unique)ORMODULE Focused (IFF Bonuses Change) S- 2H/3L/2E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/2E A- 2H/4L/3E + Side Arm A- 3H/4L/3E P- 3H/5L/3E + Side Arm P- 4H/5L/3E CALDARI SIDE ARM (Equality - another SA option)ORMODULE Focused (Unique) S- 3H/2L/2E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/2E A- 4H/2L/3E + Side Arm A- 4H/3L/3E P- 5H/3L/3E + Side Arm P- 5H/4L/3E EQ SPECIFIC Logis GÇô (4EQ) GALLENTE S- 2H/3L/3E A- 2H/3L/3E P- 3H/5L/4E MINMATAR S- 2H/2L/3E A- 3H/3L/3E P- 4H/4L/4E Delivers Logis with equal slot counts (side arm = 1 EQ) Keeps them equal in tier movements. ASSAULTS: Capable of being the most unique and powerful force out there. Lets make them that way. AMARR EQUAL to logi ORBETTER - Logi loses 1EQ for SA S- 2H/3L/1E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 2H/4L/1E + Side Arm A- 3H/4L/1E + Side Arm P- 3H/5L/1E + Side Arm P- 4H/5L/1E + Side Arm CALDARI EQUAL to logi ORBETTER - Logi loses 1EQ for SA S- 3H/2L/1E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 4H/2L/1E + Side Arm A- 4H/3L/1E + Side Arm P- 5H/3L/1E + Side Arm P- 5H/4L/1E + Side Arm GALLENTE EQUAL to logi ORBETTER - Logi loses 1H for 4thEQ S- 2H/3L/1E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 2H/4L/1E + Side Arm A- 3H/4L/1E + Side Arm P- 3H/5L/1E + Side Arm P- 4H/5L/1E + Side Arm MINMATAR EQUAL to logi ORBETTER Focus - Logi loses 1H for 4thEQ S- 2H/2L/1E + Side Arm S- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 3H/3L/1E + Side Arm A- 4H/3L/1E + Side Arm P- 4H/4L/1E + Side Arm P- 5H/4L/1E + Side Arm IN this way The COST of not being an ASSAULT is always less modules. Logis gain equipment but loses stat and 1 module. Scouts gain speed and equipment but lose stats and modules. Commandos gain HP and another LW but lose grenades and modules. Heavies gain HW and HP but lose modules. ASSAULTs will be the Maximum warriors even if their bonuses are not all that people may want. The modules and better stats make them awesome regardless. It makes the ASSAULTs versatile for battle and they may even give every class a run for their money as they will be the new Logi Slayer or Brick Scout that can suddenly do everything better than every other class (with the right module)GÇª but isnGÇÖt that what the ASSAULTs were meant to do? WerenGÇÖt the other classes supposed to sacrifice to take on another role? Not all roles are equal, but balance does not mean equality. IGÇÖll work on some CPU/PG Calculations tomorrow to try to find that sweet spot where the MED frames can have the same CPU/PG and what percentages their Bonuses need to be at in order to accommodate such a move. ThatGÇÖs all I got for now. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 628	Posted - 2014.07.18 10:13:00 - [5] - Quote Meee One wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: A PROPOSAL RedBleach is Awesome You're an idiot. Logis have about 30 more eHP than their scout counterparts yet are slower than the more heavily tanked assaults. And you want to screw logistics over even more? If logistics had higher eHP than assaults or higher speed/regen then you wouldn't seem like such a moron. It takes 5 module slots minimal for a logistics to equal an assaults base stats,the problem isn't slots the problem is equipment. The only reason "slayer logistics" was/is a problem is because of our ability to carry gear and support. Assaults want to kill and support,which is why most "slayers" moved to scouts. CCP needs to herd these players into the mindset of kill -or- support, not kill -and- support. Logis are not meant to be equal to assaults. The role of the logistics class is to specialize in equipment. For that we pay price. If Logistics had Higher HP or Regen than assaults we would again be the Slayer Logis. Slayer Logi's were an issue when the bonuses offered supreme protection and out doing all the classes in their roles. Slayers moving to scouts is another signal that the Assault class is broken. Your last point I agree with. I am moving to make that a reality by defining the roles. You and I just have separate views on how to accomplish that. - I don't see buffing logis to be the best as solving the issue. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 632	Posted - 2014.07.18 17:53:00 - [6] - Quote Meee One wrote: RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Meee One wrote: [quote=RedBleach LeSanglant] RedBleach is Awesome Logis are not meant to be equal to assaults. The role of the logistics class is to specialize in equipment. For that we pay price. If Logistics had Higher HP or Regen than assaults we would again be the Slayer Logis. Slayer Logi's were an issue when the bonuses offered supreme protection and out doing all the classes in their roles. Slayers moving to scouts is another signal that the Assault class is broken. Your last point I agree with. I am moving to make that a reality by defining the roles. You and I just have separate views on how to accomplish that. - I don't see buffing logis to be the best as solving the issue. Logis are meant to be equal with assaults,just not at assaulting. logistics isn't just some pee yellow suit made of garbage and tape (except for maybe the minmatar one :p) logistics is the master support,not the assaults re.tarded cousin. Assaults are (supposed) to be the master combat suit. RedBleach is a Genius logistics deserves a buff,to either eHP or speed/regeneration. logistics isn't second class and shouldn't be treated as such. You are right that Logistics is not a second class suit. But it must also pay a price to carry the equipment it does. If it and the assaults were the same, but the logi could also carry all that equipment there would be no need for an assault. There is a price for specialization into equipment - you either get it or you dont. It really sounds like you just need to be heard and feel justified in you opinions. Very Well: Are LOGIs too squishy? Yes. Do they need a buff? Yes. But none of that is what I was addressing, I was addressing slot adjustments. I have been a logi since the begining. Yes, so long ago... since the beginning before the open beta. Who Respects Logis? I do - dedicated alot of time to writing a guide for beginning logis. Who respecs to Logi? I did, every time the option was available. Who still plays logi? I do. And I still think The slot adjustments will further define the roles and with a little buff later in the HP/Regen/Protection department maybe we can have a solid defense one day too like the other MED FRAME. This is still a FPS and logis must still be a viable choice for attacking as well has equipment handling/support. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 635	Posted - 2014.07.19 05:01:00 - [7] - Quote knight guard fury wrote: i think it would be best to give us the option o not being forced to equip a weapon, what could it possible hurt to give us an option to not have a weapon That could be fun, I know a few logis that are sworn pacifists that would love that option. Don't know if I could do it though. John, Thanks for having my back o7 The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 636	Posted - 2014.07.19 17:33:00 - [8] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Edited OP I will be looking forward to an explanation of the decisions. I believe that the slot layouts were a good move, perhaps we will hear more in the future. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 637	Posted - 2014.07.20 01:31:00 - [9] - Quote ~~Sweet~~ I'll be loving this The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 642	Posted - 2014.07.22 19:45:00 - [10] - Quote I am looking forward to the results from the work of the CCP Dust team on the suit proposals. This is an exciting time. The Logi Code. Cross Atu for CPM1 - A logical choice