Every single FPS game that I have played has a vehicle free TDM. I see no reason why DUST 514 should not have it. I am fine with vehicles moving to Dom and Skirm because they are objective based.

All,

After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented.

Hotfix Charlie

-SNIP SNIP SNIP-

I'm sorry but our data shows that logis outnumber assaults by a huge margin. Nothing about this change will make logis worse at being logis.

Logis out number assaults....no wonder! Ratamaq is absolutely correct!

I suspect that the suit counts rank like this: Scout>Heavy>Logi>Assault. Logi suits outnumber Assault suits because the Assault suit lost its luster not because the Logi suit is superior.

I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm.

EVE: Nerf everything and buff Minmatar
Dust 514: Nerf everything and buff Caldari

I kid, I kid.

I do think giving the Cal Logi a side arm and removing a slot in return is a Great idea. That would make since for the current gap of a type II playstyle that the community has proven time and time again they enjoy, and only 1 suit that fills the role.

No, No. Don't misunderstand. You'd have to look back over several pages of argument (discussion) to get the full picture. We are NOT saying remove the sidearm from the A-Logi.

A quick summary to catch you up.

Ratti said he was taking the A-Logi sidearm away.
Community LOST their minds (at least I did)
Community pointed out that the Amarr bonus sucks compared to the Active bonuses of the Min (repper) and Gal (Scanner) and that in order to utilize the Amarr bonus (links) the Amarr needed to be a reasonable fighter. (There were plenty of other arguments, but this is what spawned the Cal Logi discussion)
Then it was pointed out that the Cal Logi also had a passive logi bonus (hives) thus a similar logi style to the Amarr, thus should actually get a sidearm.
Logi Community agrees
And there was much rejoicing!

Please explain to me how the Caldari Logi gets stronger by removing one high slot of the currently five he have at proto level (+plus the removal of an equipment slot I guess), and adding a sidearm?

I for one support the idea.
zDub 303 made a very convincing argument.

I think the point here that you're fighting against is the very point we are fighting for. Tell me this. Why would I chose to Cal or Amr over Min if I'm going to spend most of my time with a repair tool in my hand? Or over Gal if I'm looking to scan. The Hive and Link bonus, even if it was working as intended, isn't that great compared to the Active bonuses of the Gal and Min.

My Gal Logis carry multiple scanners 0.o. I think the point to keep in mind here is that your argument to make Assaults better by discouraging the Slayer Logi is flawed. The Slayer Logi exist because the Assault bonus suck. The combat medic/engineer has a place, and that place shouldn't be undermine because the Assaults in there current setup do not.

Indulge me for a moment and answer this like a CPM Candidate question. What bonus would you give to the Assault classes to make them more attractive without taking away from the other roles?

In the past I would have agreed completely. But think about it, Logis are not the slayers they were back in the day, not by half. And even back then it was mostly Cal and Gal, for along time just Caldari really. I think the focus should be on buff Assaults first, then look at logis. Not both at the same time.

I respect your opinions, but I am curious if you feel there is a resurgence now with the Amarr already having that sidearm? I personally do not see it in games. Pc or pubs. Im just curious. Are you for tiericide of Logis? Do you support removing the Amarrs sidearm?

I've been reading a lot of comments about cross racial bonuses. This isn't an inherently bad idea, but if we really want to do that, I think it would be best to go all out and make a type I and type II suit otherwise you're just falltening the diversity in all logi suits, and when that happens we revert back to early Uprising when logi suits did not have equipment based bonuses. The community finds the most combat capable suit and spams it ad naseum. I feel like that is a step back more than a step forward.

Why would a supportive suit want to have a secondary weapon?

IN ORDER TO BRING A SUPPORTIVE LIGHT ARM FOR THE TEAM
For Grudds sake. Fourth time I have to emphasize this.


Supportive weapon like laser, mass driver, swarm launcher or something of the sort.
Yea yea with laser you can go 30/0 in an ambush yadi yaddi.

Still any one of those weps is a lolfit without a sidearm, no matter how murderous they are in optimal conditions.

I was under the impression that they were suggestig removing a slot in exchange for the sidearm - essentially it'd be just like the Amarr Logistics only with a preference for shields.

I would like it if the two suits had 5/3 and 3/5 layouts respectively; that way their off-tank is minimal but their main-tank can be significantly supplemented.
I can't say I'm a big fan of adding an equipment slot, although I was the other day and could probably be convinced that way.



Essentially, rather than the MinLogi or GalLogi where they're actively logi-ing, even if it is only once per 40s, Amarr and Caldari logistics have no active ability. I'm not really sure about the whole 'CalLogi getting a sidearm' thing, to be frank; it seems to me that CalLogi's bonus is far more 'instant' in the sense that you don't drop hives for someone else to use five minutes down the track; you drop them because someone needs ammo or health now.
As opposed to Amarr Logistics whose bonus basically requires that it be a competent combat suit, simply because its bonus does not function when it's dead.
Were this changed I could possibly see fit to removing the sidearm (though I'd not be happy about it).


So in my mind it isn't about 'sacrifices' per se, but more about the actual functioning of the suit. As it is, Amarr is a reasonable combat suit. Without a sidearm it might as well just spam the links and hide behind everyone else.
Were the bonus' functionality changed it'd be more like the CalLogi in that it can afford to die simply because people will still be using its bonus.

NB: I am not suggesting I should be able to switch suits and keep the bonus. I'd suggest that it'd make a lot more sense if, as long as I am/was in an Amarr Logistics I'm benefiting from the bonus. As soon as I'm in a different suit? Gone. My links are just like everyone else's and I might as well be Minmatar.

Also, Aeon, are you saying you are now OK with the Amarr logi keeping the sidearm and just don't want to move it over to the cal as well? Or are you still in the no sidearms for any logi camp?

Yeah, IDK Aeon, I mean, it's a true statement, no trolling needed or implied. There are currently two camps, the one who wants the Amarr to keep it's sidearm and the one that doesn't. You were quite firmly in the latter group, at least initially. If you have changed your mind, that's one less (pretty influential) person I need to try to convince otherwise.

...Of that, at least. I still think the Amarr logi needs work, as RedBleach beautifully pointed out. It's fitting power is abysmal and it needs another low, even with the sidearm. But that's another discussion.