Removing the A Logis sidearm?? Please no! Who is asking for this? This was the best part of this suit and the only reason I skilled it. What is it taking away from? Not the Amarr Assault. Everyone I've read has agreed forever that that except for the slot issue (which was fixed right?) the Amarr Assault was the only Assault that was working as intended (good bonus anyway).

Look, I have all 4 Logis, and play all but the Cal, that sidearm is the only reason to play that suit! I'll run a min for the speed and slot layout, or a Gal for the Tank, slot layout and bonus every time over the Amarr Logi, if not for that sidearm.

And why would you slow us down?? We already have Massive stamina disadvantages, our speed is required to keep us in support of our close surroundings.

Look, buff assaults please, they need it, but not at the expense of the Logis. Give the assaults weapon bonus that make since, give them some more speed and stamina if you thing the amount they have already isn't enough, but don't further nerf the Logis. Remember we took a Massive hit earlier this year with the loss of out rep bonus and nerf to equipment giving us bonuses that tried to lock us into specific roles. Most of us rightfully complained about that. I thought that was enough. Didn't that take us off the nerf bat radar? I don't see massive amounts of threads about the slayer Logis anymore, and I don't see them in game. Now all I see are these death balls of 3 Logis repping each other and 1 or 2 heavies.

I think the sad part here is that there isn't more uproar over this because all the old "slayer Logis" had the biggest mouths left for scout suits leaving the real Logis behind to quietly fend for themselves.

So give it a bonus the commando already has? No thanks

With 1 extra equipment slots and still with a sidearm? Look Tron, give up, your support for this change is non existent with the exception of CCP Ratt for some reason.

I'm reposting this from another thread in hopes that either your or Logibro will read it.

You guys need to stop and ask yourselves what the role of the Caldari and Amarr logistics is on the field. They both drop passive equipment, and once that is done (literally takes about 1-2s to drop an uplink or nanohive) what is supposed to be their purpose on the battlefield?

If you think all logis should then pull out their rep tool and start repairing, then why would anyone run anything but Minmatar Logi? Simply for aesthetics? If a logi suit is supposed to spend the majority of their time repping, then there is almost no reason for any other logi suit to exist than the min logi, because it is specifically bonused for that.

The Minmatar and Gallente logi suits are centered around active equipment, that is, equipment you spend most of your time using. The Caldari and Amarr logi suits are centered around passive equipment, which leaves them free to pursue other non logistics tasks like slaying. This also makes sense as both of these passive equipment are meant to be more around the frontline, the Caldari and Amarr Logi need their combat efficacy to protect their passive equipment.

You need to think about each suits role on the field and how to better reinforce that idea.

Gallente/Minmatar
Active Equipment
High Mobility
Low combat efficiency
High Logistics efficiency

Amarr/Caldari
Passive equipment
Low mobility
Moderate combat efficiency
Low logistics efficiency

If you remove the sidearm on Amarr logi and give them a 4th equip slot, they just become a poor copy of the Min/Gal suits. They still have low logistics efficacy because their bonuses are not designed for logistics efficiency.

If you serious about type-II versions. Then you need to completely rethink the bonuses so that the high logistics efficiency variant has a bonus to active equipment and the combat efficiency variant has a bonus to passive equipment to better reinforce the role of each suit.

You would essentially need to make a set of medic suits centered entirely around the nanite injector and rep tool. While the combat version would be around passive equipment like hives and links. Every suit would have close to the same bonus, and the flavor would come from the slot layout. You could give the combat logi a L/S and the medic an S or S/S setup and boost the speed and hp of the medic up substantially to reinforce the role that they should be running around repping and reviving.

If you move forward with this as it is though, you will essentially render the non-Minmatar logi suits obsolete.

I see Type II suits mentioned multiple times in this thread.
What did they do?

Edit:

It does differentiate Assault and Commando, though.
RoF isn't a flat DPS increase, but instead a trade of sustained fire for damage output. It forces earlier reloads.
Meanwhile, Commandos get more flat damage.
Essentially, this would mean that Commandos are about using their armor and dual light weapons to prolong fights and suppress enemies, while Assaults are the ones doing killing blows with their high DPS, nimble feet and grenades.
If we go from this, we might actually differentiate the roles properly.

I do think giving the Cal Logi a side arm and removing a slot in return is a Great idea. That would make since for the current gap of a type II playstyle that the community has proven time and time again they enjoy, and only 1 suit that fills the role.

No, No. Don't misunderstand. You'd have to look back over several pages of argument (discussion) to get the full picture. We are NOT saying remove the sidearm from the A-Logi.

A quick summary to catch you up.

Ratti said he was taking the A-Logi sidearm away.
Community LOST their minds (at least I did)
Community pointed out that the Amarr bonus sucks compared to the Active bonuses of the Min (repper) and Gal (Scanner) and that in order to utilize the Amarr bonus (links) the Amarr needed to be a reasonable fighter. (There were plenty of other arguments, but this is what spawned the Cal Logi discussion)
Then it was pointed out that the Cal Logi also had a passive logi bonus (hives) thus a similar logi style to the Amarr, thus should actually get a sidearm.
Logi Community agrees
And there was much rejoicing!

I think the point here that you're fighting against is the very point we are fighting for. Tell me this. Why would I chose to Cal or Amr over Min if I'm going to spend most of my time with a repair tool in my hand? Or over Gal if I'm looking to scan. The Hive and Link bonus, even if it was working as intended, isn't that great compared to the Active bonuses of the Gal and Min.

The argument was never about making Assaults better by discouraging Slayer Logis, don't misconstrue my argument, please.

The Slayer Logi doesn't/didn't exist because the Assault bonus sucks, the Slayer Logi existed/exists because it has always been better than the Assault due to the fitting capabilities and bonuses. Logistics not only have more equipment slots, they have more slots in general on top of having more PG/CPU. For a while, they all had passive armor repair, the Cal Logi had a defensive shield bonus, the list goes on and on. Market data backs that up considering that Logistics have always been preferable to Assaults. Rewind back to 1.4/1.5, toss a Flaylock pistol (a sidearm no less) on them and they were god mode.

As far as what bonus? Kind of a loaded question with Commandos competing with the offensive role, so appealing to the offensive role will start taking away from them.. Give a commando a 10% increase in damage, and an Assault a 10% increase in rate of fire, and they have the exact same DPS - one just is a bit more conservative on the ammo. Both of which have their pros and cons, Commandos having a second light weapon and durability while Assaults have a bit more speed and grenades but inevitably they're both slotted into the Slayer role.

Now if Commandos had a magazine increase as opposed to a damage increase, then you could very easily say that the Commandos were the suppression unit and the Assaults were the offensive front-runners. But I doubt that will ever happen and that's not what this conversation is about.

The Amarr scout will have a natural low range high precision scan, moving slowly and tanking because of close proximity.

The Gallente scout will be the dampener master, being able to be unscannable by sacrificing a lot of slots.

The Caldari scout will be the natural long range, low ehp hunter.

All of them have the ability to change either range, dampening or precision to alter their desired utility.