^^ That'll be why then, thanks for pointing that out Cat. Kinda crap to think the only way to combat this then would be to have to use one ourselves too...

the GA sentinel is the worst offender, it will be based on slots and not the same reduction for all races

This isn't an argument in favor of the logi suit being balanced for a logi role. If your complaint is that "my SP I spent on weapon effectivness now makes my logi less effective as a logi" isn't really valid.

The point of the tweak is to make logis play their logi/support role, and assaults be worthwhile in their niche.

This isn't an argument in favor of the logi suit being balanced for a logi role. If your complaint is that "my SP I spent on weapon effectivness now makes my logi less effective as a logi" isn't really valid.

The point of the tweak is to make logis play their logi/support role, and assaults be worthwhile in their niche.

Not sure how I am not playing my role as a logi if I have a side arm & use it. Removing the side arm slot DOES NOT in any way help a set of suits with poorly conceived bonus. Also if the the assault suits were any good then more people would use them. The fact that people would prefer to go scout, heavy or even logi says a lot about the assault suit not the others.

Besides, as I have pointed out, my link bonus does not work when I am dead. So I try & ensure I stay alive long enough to protect the links & myself to allow the bonus to work & for people to return to the battlefield quicker.

This is not a discussion for me about OHNOESMYSIDARMISUSELESSNOW, it is a point about why is there a need to remove it in the first place. Its not going to magically make assaults better & I certainly don't see hordes of Amarr logis roaming the battlefield killing all in sight. The sidearm is useful, for me. I like it. It saves my life ( though not always ).

i would like to see you give us alternatives to dual tanking.

damage mods or hp mods are the only mods that directly support combat. we dont have any other options, so if you ever want to see dual tanking go away, youll need to give us some new toys to play with.

Ok, I can see the confusion brewing, logi slots PER tier will be the same, 3, for ADV, 4 for PRO etc. Amarr sidearm is changed to Equipment slot and another slot added to bring them to the same total number of slots as other races at all tiers.

[quote=Tesfa Alem]

Maybe "abuse" is the wrong word but I do agree with them, placing a bed of hives and then swapping out to a heavy brick seems like a misuse of a bad mechanic?

2 17, 18, enough to make it a skill weapon rather than spray and pray

The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance.

The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses.

This is a terrible terrible idea. Logis need to stay alive and in a dust where rail rifles can engage within 80 meters, and HMGs destroy you close range, which should i give up HP or equipment just to be able to shoot back. This would rather encourage me to become a slayer logi. i simply cannot risk my good equipment and suit on 1 side arm, (which would only be either the magsec or smg) so i might as well ditch the equipment and go for kills.

Cant we just buff the assaults without destroying the other suits.

All,

After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented.

Hotfix Charlie
* Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase.

* A slight HMG heat buildup increase

* Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons.

* Installation buff, with a range and AI range reduction, reduction of granted WP for destruction.

* Blaster turret accuracy improvements, both Small and Large

* Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability.

* Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase.

* Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement

* Reduced small rail range compared to sniper range

* Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier.

* WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP

* Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s

* OB WP doubled

* LP payout increased x-fold

* Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS

* Reduced ADS ISK price

Still under tech evaluation
* Disabling passive Scan sharing with squads
* Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible
* We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed.
* Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free

Bugs/issues that need Client update
Pilot stacking bug
Unfair fall damage calculation
Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills
Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug

Hotfix Delta or later
*Sidearm rebalance
*Sniper Rifle review
*Efficacy bonuses
*Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity

Truth.

Exactly. IWS and Rattati, I will give a nice simple explanation for why the Amarr logi's role is suited for a sidearm and others are not. As RedBleach said, great for solo operations. Why is that important?

It's a tacticians suit. (If you click the link in my signature, you will see that I have put some thought into the matter and am not just throwing it up on the fly. )

Let's use the minmatar logi as an example. It has a bonus to rep tools. Useless if nobody is around, great if you are running with the pack. In contrast, the Amarr logis bonus is arguably the opposite. At the very least, it is not appreciably enhanced by others being around.

What's the better place for an uplink? An area where 5 people already are, or somewhere off on the flank to create a rally point or new attacking front? Obviously the latter. Would it be better out in the open or more hidden? Again, the latter.

So in this case, which of the 2 logi suits, if they are fulfilling their primary role (as designated by their bonus) is more likely to find itself on a lone wolf operation (and thus be in greater need of a sidearms to defend itself)?

If you said Amarr, you are correct.

So, based on its bonus there is a perfectly logical non-slayer reason for the sidearm to exist. In addition, none of the elite laser weapon slayer types do their thing in the Amarr logi suit. They use the assault or commando because they actually have a bonus that works!

Then downgrade from a Duvolle to a GEK?
Is it really too much to ask for?

I was using GEK's for a long time on my Gallente Assault suit ya know.
WIth maxed fitting skills.

* Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase.

Have you considered adding a fitting bonus for damage mods in addition to light weapon fitting bonus, or add a fitting bonus for the sidearm too. The latter would keep differentiation between the commando and assault.

I'm reposting this from another thread in hopes that either your or Logibro will read it.

You guys need to stop and ask yourselves what the role of the Caldari and Amarr logistics is on the field. They both drop passive equipment, and once that is done (literally takes about 1-2s to drop an uplink or nanohive) what is supposed to be their purpose on the battlefield?

If you think all logis should then pull out their rep tool and start repairing, then why would anyone run anything but Minmatar Logi? Simply for aesthetics? If a logi suit is supposed to spend the majority of their time repping, then there is almost no reason for any other logi suit to exist than the min logi, because it is specifically bonused for that.

The Minmatar and Gallente logi suits are centered around active equipment, that is, equipment you spend most of your time using. The Caldari and Amarr logi suits are centered around passive equipment, which leaves them free to pursue other non logistics tasks like slaying. This also makes sense as both of these passive equipment are meant to be more around the frontline, the Caldari and Amarr Logi need their combat efficacy to protect their passive equipment.

You need to think about each suits role on the field and how to better reinforce that idea.

Gallente/Minmatar
Active Equipment
High Mobility
Low combat efficiency
High Logistics efficiency

Amarr/Caldari
Passive equipment
Low mobility
Moderate combat efficiency
Low logistics efficiency

If you remove the sidearm on Amarr logi and give them a 4th equip slot, they just become a poor copy of the Min/Gal suits. They still have low logistics efficacy because their bonuses are not designed for logistics efficiency.

If you serious about type-II versions. Then you need to completely rethink the bonuses so that the high logistics efficiency variant has a bonus to active equipment and the combat efficiency variant has a bonus to passive equipment to better reinforce the role of each suit.

You would essentially need to make a set of medic suits centered entirely around the nanite injector and rep tool. While the combat version would be around passive equipment like hives and links. Every suit would have close to the same bonus, and the flavor would come from the slot layout. You could give the combat logi a L/S and the medic an S or S/S setup and boost the speed and hp of the medic up substantially to reinforce the role that they should be running around repping and reviving.

If you move forward with this as it is though, you will essentially render the non-Minmatar logi suits obsolete.

I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm.