We could play rewind theater and show how much people cried about being short changed an equipment slot for a side arm and how stupidly odd it was for Amarrs to getting side arms as it made no sense back then. These complaints made at the apex of the slayer logi mind you. I mean you're 2 slots down from everyone else. Those modules slots are the most excessively heaviest stat in the game; side arm is one of the weakest slot weights as well because the overall dps associated with that slot is the lowest of the three, and the fact the mere presence of the other slot further degrades that weight because you only got two hands. Also Logi is not the only viable AV class there, all classes are viable AV in their own ways. Many don't need to resort to using equipment slots or av weapons and all classes are nearly equally capable of killing every vehicle in the game right now.

The A-Logi with a sidearm was a mistake that shouldn't have been made in the first place. Similar to how shoving HAVs into this game without a proper role other than to blow **** up was a mistake that should not have happened in the first place.

Also ever heard of unpopular changes? This is one of them. The combined fact that so many players are adamant about the side arm speaks volumes as to why its wrong and needs to be changed. I am shocked not more players are not seeking to try to change CCP Rattati's mind over the lackluster bonus that expires after you die.

So if you're so much of an expert.

Under the altered amarr logi slot layout

I want you to exactly tell me what would make it inferior to all the other races logistics; stat per stat.

Bugs/issues that need Client update
Pilot stacking bug

* Installation buff, with a range and AI review, reduction of granted WP for destruction.

* Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier.

* OB WP doubled

The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance.

The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses.

I challenge you to find a single decent player who has been running the Amarr logi for more than a month that loves this change. Some might tolerate it, but NOBODY is going to be excited about it. NO ONE.

I maxed out my SMG, I paid real life freaking money for the Templar logi, I've been using the Amarr logi as my primary suit for a year. I have 6000 lifetime kills in 16 months. I'm by nobody's definition a slayer logi. This change is incredibly short sighted and will drive a lot of us not only from the suit, but from the game. I will never use my log suit again. If I do decide to ever play, which I doubt, I will use a gal scout as my support suit. It's faster, has a sidearm, is invisible, and has 2 equipment slots.

I thought you had learned from prior mistakes Rattati. I was wrong. Taking a good suit and making it bad is not how we make another suit better!. You do that by actually making the other suit better!

You talk about crowd sourcing? Where was the clamor for removing the sidearm? Where are the grateful players in this thread? There was and are none because nobody wants this.

Outliers? What about the LP store Amarr commando with 3 weapons? Where's the clamor for the grenade commando? I guess you weren't around but there were plenty of suggestions about grenadier suits. Even if there wasn't, the fact that people aren't specifically asking for new variants doesnt mean anyone wants FEWER variants than we have now.

Quick poll... Who wants fewer things in Dust? Who wants less variety? Nobody? Ok good, glad we got that straight.

Wait which Commando?

hp/s damnit

Imperial Amarr Commando AK.0
go to LP store hit triangle on that name go to stats 2 Light weapons 1 Sidearm
Disclaimer I do not have this commando and therefore I am unaware whether or not someone miss typed this stat or whether it actually gives you three weapons.

Wait which Commando?

Facepalm.

Wow, I could not have possibly made my argument any better than you just did for me.

Well looking on the other hand that fixing the skill stacking on ADS requires a client update trough PSN allready means that this is "very unlikely" to happend. Cause client side updates needs to be verified by sony and that costs money. And CCP branded this game as "dead" with their "dust514 keynote" at the fanfest which means that they wont spend a single cent to add/fix something.

But go on CCP and IWS prove me wrong and pull out a client update out of your hats. I dare you, i double dare you.

So, you are basically buffing 2 logis, and slightly nerfing all of them? Is the Amarr logi now going to be slower than a Min Commado? The Min Logi already is the second lowest HP suit in the game, and you are going to make it even slower? Por que? The low HP suits have at least been marginally faster than the rest. It's hard enough to outrun an HMG as a Min Logi, and now I'm going to be slower, while everyone else is faster AND has higher eHP? I'm so confused by this logic....

That I am not a walking encyclopedia that has all 15,000 items in dust 514 remembered?

* Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier.

We could play rewind theater and show how much people cried about being short changed an equipment slot for a side arm and how stupidly odd it was for Amarrs to getting side arms as it made no sense back then. These complaints made at the apex of the slayer logi mind you. I mean you're 2 slots down from everyone else. Those modules slots are the most excessively heaviest stat in the game; side arm is one of the weakest slot weights as well because the overall dps associated with that slot is the lowest of the three, and the fact the mere presence of the other slot further degrades that weight because you only got two hands. Also Logi is not the only viable AV class there, all classes are viable AV in their own ways. Many don't need to resort to using equipment slots or av weapons and all classes are nearly equally capable of killing every vehicle in the game right now.

The A-Logi with a sidearm was a mistake that shouldn't have been made in the first place. Similar to how shoving HAVs into this game without a proper role other than to blow **** up was a mistake that should not have happened in the first place.

Also ever heard of unpopular changes? This is one of them. The combined fact that so many players are adamant about the side arm speaks volumes as to why its wrong and needs to be changed. I am shocked not more players are not seeking to try to change CCP Rattati's mind over the lackluster bonus that expires after you die.

So if you're so much of an expert.

Under the altered amarr logi slot layout

I want you to exactly tell me what would make it inferior to all the other races logistics; stat per stat.

The logic seems to be assaults are garbage and people use logis more, so we have to make logis worse than assaults are. 12 pages of this and I havent seen any other reason...

WE DON'T WANT MORE EQUIPMENT AND MODULE SLOTS. We want our god damn Side Arm. You are CPM. You are supposed to support the masses whether you agree or not. Fight for us and not your warped sense of appealing to CCP.

You don't play. You know what. Look up my monthly numbers already. Look where I am at. I play 65% AV right now so the lack of kills is from redrats jumping out of drop ships I shoot down. I run A-Logi a lot and get WP for my fast uplinks thus high WP.

I have tons of WP from completely legitimate playing. I got over 5k WP today from forging and swarming vehicles and some uplinks. 2nd place was Southpac at almost 5k. 3rd place was about 1300 wp. We had top kills as well. We had great KDR. We push to be the best players we can be no matter how terrible our blueberries are. You should not be arguing with a player that puts this much AUR, Time, and effort into this game. Maybe CCP Ratatti can post the hours I play. Yes, I currently have no life while trying to save money but that fully justifies why players like myself and others who put in the hours should be listened to and supported.

All of the logis are fine. The speed nerf is a maybe for me. Fine, just don't change anything else. Start more conversation topics and do the changes in delta.

DEFEND US IWS. Not one person has provided feedback and said "can't wait till my A-Logi loses it's side arm and gets modules and equipment". Not one.

I stand by the fact that I should AT LEAST keep the current layout for AUR gear if I don't get a respec. I'll eat the money (I don't want to) if I get a respec.

I dont think we need to make logis just plain out worse than assaults; just not as desired for attack in comparison to assaults.

Assaults should be superior in pressing the enemy

Logis should be superior in pressing their allies forward.

Assaults need a more useful bonus. It doesn't matter if they get a small HP change, all that does is blur the difference between Assault and Commando further.

Remove the sidearm from the only proto suit i've been able to afford and that pretty much seals the deal for me to never return to Dust.

I understand the idea of normalizing the slot layouts but I feel its the wrong way to go personally. The sidearm on the Amarr Logi is what made that suit fun. Having experienced having a sidearm and 3 equipment I could never go back to only having a single weapon.

I honestly can't see a reason why you would run a logistics suit over a scout unless you want to run a minmatar medic suit.

Amarr logi bridged the gap between minmatar medic and scout-logis. If you look at the numbers, something tells me the Amarr and Minmater logi suits probably greatly outnumber the caldari and gallente logis now. Its not hard to imagine why that might be, uplinks and rep tools are by far the most useful equipments available.

I would love to see the number on logi suits in general, in pubs there are enough WP farmers running rep tools to keep the numbers high but they are becoming rather underpowered in general.

With scouts and heavies the way they are after 1.7 and 1.8 it seems that straight buffs to the medium suits make more sense to me. imho... adding a sidearm to caldari and doing a slot normalization that way makes much more sense. You have caldari and amarr as 'combat logi' suits with bonuses more oriented towards being near the frontline (uplinks and ammo) while minmatar and gallente logis would be more inclined to focus on their 'active equipment' using rep tools and scanners more in general and not being so inclined to need a sidearm.

As CCP Ratatti explained publically before a client update is not out of the question of the realm of possibility; it is just something he rather do later than now. CCP has told the CPM the same deal as well there is no issue with getting a "1.9" but the major problem remains is the simple fact there is no 1.9 being planned right now. The closest thing we have is likely the shopping list CCP Ratatti keeps adding to with every hotfix when he runs into something he cant do a server side update to fix.

And a PG/CPU buff isnt going to do it. As long as a Scrambler is the same on a logi as it is on an assault, nothing will change. The assaults need a real bonus, a reason to be used. As long as logis have the same damage output and more equipment, they will be the go to medium frame. The issue is not logis, its assaults.