Agreed. The bonus Rattati that you change shouldn't affect SP investment. If so just give us a full Respec already. Yes I brought it up

I would like to remind everyone that:


Please keep your feedback as constructive as possible, and we will listen. :)

Original post courtesy of John Demonsbane: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2237028#post2237028

My comment that relates to this string:
Regarding equipment bonuses, I like the idea of giving each race both an active (rep tools or scanners) and a passive (uplinks or nanohives) equipment bonus with primary/secondary bonuses like you suggested. Maybe like this:
Minmatar = rep tool (p) + nanohives (s)
Amarr = uplinks (p) + rep tool (s)
Gallente = scanner (p) + uplinks (s)
Caldari = nanohives (p) + scanner (s)

Any decent tanker spots (or has someone spotting) those. Also good luck in getting close enough to a decent tanker to throw those AVs in a slow ass, small pool stamina suit without getting shot into pieces.

I have been doing remotes for a long time now, basically since the swarm nerf. Swarms are in a better place now, and I would rather not die 50% of the time trying to place 3 remotes on the tailpipe. Besides, you will rarely ever get a GOOD tanker with that.

This is why I fracking voted for you .

I just can't get enough of the truth and people who love the same .

It would be better if Logistics had a bonus that increases the efficacy of all equipment not just race related items . Making the bonuses separate depending on race just created a oversaturation of one races logi or assault or any suit or role for that matter .

I for one am Caldari but I had to speck into Minmatar to be a medic and Amarr to lay hives and anti-vehicle .

This is just too much and should be a choice and not mandatory . I'm forced to speck into another races items which excluded my own .

As you can see only ONE guy likes the change to the A-logi ONE!!! Let that sink in for a bit.

Remove the sidearm from the only proto suit i've been able to afford and that pretty much seals the deal for me to never return to Dust.

I understand the idea of normalizing the slot layouts but I feel its the wrong way to go personally. The sidearm on the Amarr Logi is what made that suit fun. Having experienced having a sidearm and 3 equipment I could never go back to only having a single weapon.

I honestly can't see a reason why you would run a logistics suit over a scout unless you want to run a minmatar medic suit.

Amarr logi bridged the gap between minmatar medic and scout-logis. If you look at the numbers, something tells me the Amarr and Minmater logi suits probably greatly outnumber the caldari and gallente logis now. Its not hard to imagine why that might be, uplinks and rep tools are by far the most useful equipments available.

I would love to see the number on logi suits in general, in pubs there are enough WP farmers running rep tools to keep the numbers high but they are becoming rather underpowered in general.

With scouts and heavies the way they are after 1.7 and 1.8 it seems that straight buffs to the medium suits make more sense to me. imho... adding a sidearm to caldari and doing a slot normalization that way makes much more sense. You have caldari and amarr as 'combat logi' suits with bonuses more oriented towards being near the frontline (uplinks and ammo) while minmatar and gallente logis would be more inclined to focus on their 'active equipment' using rep tools and scanners more in general and not being so inclined to need a sidearm.

And that's the problem! You say it right there when you say "scout logi's"!!! There should be no such thing. Scouts are scouts and logi's are logi's. Because this clear definition has been blurred by the scouts having an extra slot issue, you have been blinded to the fact that logi's shouldn't be assault or AV capable like the Assault Dropsuits should be. That is why more people are playing logi's than assault.

Can you clarify this? I was under the impression that the stacking of bonuses for dropship gunners was intended to be a reward for skill points invested in the role, not a bug.

I don't believe this is as much of an issue as people seem to think it is. Not only is it a massive investment of skill points and time on the part of the pilot/gunner, but by fitting an extra turret it reduces the dropship's fitting capabilities and creates a risk-reward scenario.

If it has to be changed in some way, can we at least reward gunners with some sort of bonus for their chosen profession and allocation of time? Perhaps cut the ROF bonus in half or allow gunners to otherwise apply tangible buffs to the vehicles they are riding in.

no, its a bug and people exploit the F out of it, its not the nice small numbers that duna pet states, its more like gunner gets 120% dmg 100% rof and twice as much ammo, couldn't be fixed sooner.

Whoa, watch that generalisation. I cannot fit a light weapon, good modules, and a cloak at the same time on my Min scout. If I fit a cloak, it means I'm down to two sidearms and the lowest CPU/PG modules I can fit. I'd like to think that that is an okay balance. Really though, I just don't think cloaks are useful to me, though I have seen many people using them better than I do.

YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG. Get with the facts. Look I wouldn't be so frustrated if you agreed that you are screwing us for a "bigger picture". Sure why not. But you actually think you know better than us, the remaining players.

The side arm is not what makes the A-Logi the A-logi. The bonus is. The Side Arm is a plus that we have gotten used to and have found our niche with. It is the weakest logi without it. You aren't making it better. HOw many people have to tell you this? How many hours do we all need to play as A-Logi to show this to you? Let us know so we can do it.

At this point, I think you are making this change on whim and selfishness. I think you guys are doing this to sell more Aur by getting people to skill into new suits, etc. and thus using real world money to support you guys. I don't think this is authentically for the greater good of the game because the greater good. The logis are just different enough to warrant an actual decision. make them the same and everyone will be Min Logi in the future. EVERYONE. It's the fastest, decent CPU/PG, the best bonus, etc. Everyone will eventually be a Min logi OR not logi at all. Currently you see logis.

Cal = slayer logi
Gal = tanker logi
Min = Versatile, support
Amarr = AV-ish, spawn specialist

Your statements don't explain it well. "It's different and I don't like different" isn't good enough to convince us. You do whatever you want, it's your game and I just play it. Don't make the change YET. Get a new discussion on it and push it to delta. Ease people into it. We don't want it or like it so doing it isn't better for us. Or we get a respec.

It's different and not like the others so you are making it like the others. Thus it isn't what I spent my hours and AUR (boosters) to have. I should have all A-Logi SP refunded to include the A-Med SP but I'll deal if that doesn't happen.

As a logi I would like to add my opinion to this conversation. Before I continue I apologise because it seems like I have more questions than feedback

Not sure why the need for a speed reduction when even with an enhanced kincat on an ADV Min logi suit i can struggle to keep up ( some ) heavies. On this basis are you looking to reduce the speed on the heavies as well ? Isn't a logis role to support the battlefield ? How am i supposed to do that if I can't keep up with the battlefield ? I have spent SP into being able to run & fit kincats to allow me to be more mobile because the logi always seems to slow. Oh and before anyone says anything about stacking tank mods, I always look to get a balance between the best equipment I can fit then look at the best tank I can run. I like my logi to be mobile not a static WP pinata winnebago lumbering around the battlefield.

Is the 'standardisation' of logi equipment slots a way of justifying why scouts have 2 equipment slots ? I do understand the need to balance slot layout between the races but I have never felt that the Amarr logi suffered unduly by having 1 less module slot & gaining the sidearm slot. A lot of people were sold on the idea of a 'combat' logi, especially me. Place the uplinks & defend the area. Or push & attack & move the front line up with uplinks, then defend them. i don't know, I feel as if I play a different game to the one CCP sees sometimes.

Cloak bonus, meh I could care less. I can't do anything cloaked. I wouldn't loose sleep over some one running a crazy speed damped cloak shotgun logi, not when scouts can do that much better already.

WP for injectors, brilliant & about time. I love the scaling with SP investment & cost.

I also hope you look at the option of choosing whether to be revived once a player is downed also. Maybe to reduce the spam a bit more is too reduce the initial WP reward for a rez & have bonus WP reward if the rez'd player stays alive for a period of time. I am pretty sure this was suggested a long time ago.

So why not give ALL the logis a side-arm. Your arguement is, we have to because its the only one with a sidearm.. so why do you have to take it away? Why not give the other logis a sidearm if its such a huge dilema. The only reason the sidearm was taken away was to differentiate from assault. But the suits are soo much different than they were then. You can differentiate them through the bonuses.

The amarr should not lose its sidearm. The amarr logi bonus most requires you to stay in your logi for a true benefit for the team and gives up an equipment slot to be viable in such a way.

Also another slot on the Amarr logi only increases uplink spam which is not needed.

I don't really mind having seven slots on my Amarr Logi, though I would like a fourth equipment.

But if the cost of that (of either of those) is my sidearm, I don't want it.

My sidearm is only valuable in niche situations, and offers a point of difference from the other logis.


To expand, Amarr Logistics currently has thirteen slots, where all the other logis have fourteen. This appears to be a remnant from the original introduction wherein the Amarr frames had lower slot layouts than the other races did, which is to say, it is not because a sidearm is arbitrarily more valuable than another slot (which I don't think it is, necessarily).

Increasing the CalLogi equips would bring it up to 15, increasing further the divide. In that vein I think it would be reasonable for Amarr Logistics to have an increased equipment slot capacity anyway.

I'd also like for it to have at least CPU/PG quantities in line with the other suits, if not more as compensation for the lower slots (as appeared to be the old logic with the Assault).

And a PG/CPU buff isnt going to do it. As long as a Rail Rifle is the same on a logi as it is on an assault, nothing will change. The assaults need a real bonus, a reason to be used. As long as logis have the same damage output and more equipment, they will be the go to medium frame. The issue is not logis, its assaults.

Edited the weapon used in the example, because as ScR is NOT the same on a logi as a Assault, therefore the amarr assault ACTUALLY gets used.

A medi-scout's view on Amarr heavies losing their sidearms (main non-story based points will be Underlined, bolded and Italicised:

When I began in Dust I took a through look before buying any new suits. I looked at every class and every race. Out of all of them, the Amarr appeared to me as the worst. They simply don't fit my preferences. They have the highest health, at an expense to speed. I liked their weapons better than the rest (this was before all of the new sidearms and rifles), but their suits to me were just awful.

I only skilled into their heavy suit because it was the only one at the time.

In logistics I found that the only interesting ones were the Amarr and the Minmatar. The Minmatar were my favourite drop suit race because they are the fastest, and in terms of a useful logi bonus, the Minmatar had the best. There was only one reason I even considered Ammar, and that was the sidearm.

But, again I moved on to the scouts. Of course I picked the fastest suit I could get, the Minmatar scout. At first I was just an average Minja wannabe. It wasn't until later that I found that I could be a medic in a scout suit.

This has been my main fit ever since.

But there are two other logis with extra equipment, if you wanted the equipment over a sidearm, why not go min/gal? We specced amarr for a reason, that reason was links (broken atm) and a sidearm. Thats it...

Man... if they actually implement that logi nerf....people will hate devs even more o.O this is a sign Rattati, don't do it. Community say NAY

This is what I meant; to expand, I don't want my logi to be a slayer suit. Adding a slot and keeping the sidearm is heading in that direction.

I would much rather keeping the sidearm for self-defence and having another equipment slot to round out my layout.

Good Ol Rihanna jokes. That's a ride or die chick I swear. My type though so I can't bash on her.

Anyway. My suggestion stands at a stamina regen decrease, 10% speed increase, 10% base HP increase, movement penalty (i.e. armor plates) reduction per level. Maybe add an entire nade slot and increase passive scan a little maybe a base of 35.

The only thing I can think of that I might be able to jump on board with as far as logi's are concerned is logis can't fit Damage mods. Problem solved. People will be assault for the DPS.

Thoughts?

The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. The slowest Logis would still of course move faster than the fastest heavy, something like +0.05 on the Assault or -0.05 on the Logi. So if that's the biggest worry, we have no problem in only buffing the Assault speed.

That's not what's causing the issue. The issue is that I cannot run with my repair tool locked onto my Heavy bro, so if he sprints, then is is faster and I loose lock on him around corners and then have a delay before I can relock onto him again.