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Hotfix Charlie - Update

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 43 post(s)
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 72	Posted - 2014.07.09 22:49:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: All, After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented. Hotfix Charlie * Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase. * A slight HMG heat buildup increase * Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons. * Installation buff, with a range and AI review, reduction of granted WP for destruction. * Blaster turret accuracy improvements * Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a narrow strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability. * Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase. * Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement * Small rail range compared to sniper range * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. * WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP * Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s * OB WP doubled * LP payout increased x-fold * Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS * Reduced ADS ISK price Still under tech evaluation * Passive Scan sharing with squads * Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible * We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed. * Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free Bugs/issues that need Client update Pilot stacking bug Unfair fall damage calculation Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug Hotfix Delta or later Sidearm rebalance Sniper Rifle review Efficacy bonuses Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity Messing with the logi and not letting them fit their cloaks is no good man, they have fun with that. Is that really an issue? Leave the amar sidearm alone, thats their thing. Jesus who is telling you this is a problem? Someone who must be terrible at this game., I like alot of what I hear, but there are so few logis now. I think that a small cpu or pg buff along with some better base ewar stats would make the assault suit all it needs to be. Buff its range and precision so that we can see threats as we flank, with the exception of scouts. But aside from scouts buff our ewar. My suit is fine Id just like, a little more cpu pg andmI think assaults are in a good place.
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 79	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:17:00 - [2] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: Assaults need a more useful bonus. It doesn't matter if they get a small HP change, all that does is blur the difference between Assault and Commando further. The only assault suit I do not have is the Amarr, I like the bonuses.
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 79	Posted - 2014.07.10 02:21:00 - [3] - Quote Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: If they want to encourage teamwork, they would add a 15% PGU/CPU reduction to the fitting cost of side turrets per level in ADS skill, in addition to the 2% damage boost, along with a slight buff to the base PGU/CPU of ships. Sure, that might let you fit a turret more easily, but it could also just be used to stack even more HP by the same solo pilots everyone seems to hate. While I like the idea of more fitting space, I would much rather see gunners get benefits for the millions of skill points they have invested like they do right now. Comimg from someome who is a solo pilot people hate I can only respect the homesty of this opinion. And instead of viewing such a statement with cynicism I think we must seriously consider this. Darth is a great solo pilot. So if he is advocating for more role for side gunners I think that is admirable even if in the end such a thing is truly self serving it sounds honest.
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 86	Posted - 2014.07.10 22:54:00 - [4] - Quote Zelda Harkinian wrote: so calscouts are losing their scan precisions? huh... well, I guess we had our fun long enough and poor amarr scouts really need something. With codebreakers moving to high slot, it will be interesting to see what kind of fittings calscouts will create. So far you can personalize your play style much much more with low slots than you can with high slots, so I'm glad we're getting more high slot options. Someome explain this to me. Cal and Gal both currently have a range bonus. Cal has precision, and gal has dampening. So if cal is losing precision whats its other bonus?
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 86	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:10:00 - [5] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I think the point here that you're fighting against is the very point we are fighting for. Tell me this. Why would I chose to Cal or Amr over Min if I'm going to spend most of my time with a repair tool in my hand? Or over Gal if I'm looking to scan. The Hive and Link bonus, even if it was working as intended, isn't that great compared to the Active bonuses of the Gal and Min. Sure, but you could make that argument about other suits as well. Why should I use the Gallente Logi, even with it's active bonus, when the Scouts are so much more effective at the job? We're taking measures to change that, sure, but it's not exactly like people are flocking to the Gallente Logi right now. And, again, cross-racial bonuses would help immensely with this. Amarr Logi with specialized bonuses to Drop Uplinks with a secondary bonus to Repair Tools would just make sense since they are Armor tankers, same could be said about the Gallente Logi as well. Gallente Logi only has the bonus to the Active Scanners and even if they are Active, what am I doing when I'm not using the one scanner? Can I have a sidearm on my Gallente Logistics as well..? My Gal Logis carry multiple scanners 0.o. I think the point to keep in mind here is that your argument to make Assaults better by discouraging the Slayer Logi is flawed. The Slayer Logi exist because the Assault bonus suck. The combat medic/engineer has a place, and that place shouldn't be undermine because the Assaults in there current setup do not. Indulge me for a moment and answer this like a CPM Candidate question. What bonus would you give to the Assault classes to make them more attractive without taking away from the other roles? The argument was never about making Assaults better by discouraging Slayer Logis, don't misconstrue my argument, please. The Slayer Logi doesn't/didn't exist because the Assault bonus sucks, the Slayer Logi existed/exists because it has always been better than the Assault due to the fitting capabilities and bonuses. Logistics not only have more equipment slots, they have more slots in general on top of having more PG/CPU. For a while, they all had passive armor repair, the Cal Logi had a defensive shield bonus, the list goes on and on. Market data backs that up considering that Logistics have always been preferable to Assaults. Rewind back to 1.4/1.5, toss a Flaylock pistol (a sidearm no less) on them and they were god mode. As far as what bonus? Kind of a loaded question with Commandos competing with the offensive role, so appealing to the offensive role will start taking away from them.. Give a commando a 10% increase in damage, and an Assault a 10% increase in rate of fire, and they have the exact same DPS - one just is a bit more conservative on the ammo. Both of which have their pros and cons, Commandos having a second light weapon and durability while Assaults have a bit more speed and grenades but inevitably they're both slotted into the Slayer role. Now if Commandos had a magazine increase as opposed to a damage increase, then you could very easily say that the Commandos were the suppression unit and the Assaults were the offensive front-runners. But I doubt that will ever happen and that's not what this conversation is about. In the past I would have agreed completely. But think about it, Logis are not the slayers they were back in the day, not by half. And even back then it was mostly Cal and Gal, for along time just Caldari really. I think the focus should be on buff Assaults first, then look at logis. Not both at the same time.
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 86	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:18:00 - [6] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I think the point here that you're fighting against is the very point we are fighting for. Tell me this. Why would I chose to Cal or Amr over Min if I'm going to spend most of my time with a repair tool in my hand? Or over Gal if I'm looking to scan. The Hive and Link bonus, even if it was working as intended, isn't that great compared to the Active bonuses of the Gal and Min. Sure, but you could make that argument about other suits as well. Why should I use the Gallente Logi, even with it's active bonus, when the Scouts are so much more effective at the job? We're taking measures to change that, sure, but it's not exactly like people are flocking to the Gallente Logi right now. And, again, cross-racial bonuses would help immensely with this. Amarr Logi with specialized bonuses to Drop Uplinks with a secondary bonus to Repair Tools would just make sense since they are Armor tankers, same could be said about the Gallente Logi as well. Gallente Logi only has the bonus to the Active Scanners and even if they are Active, what am I doing when I'm not using the one scanner? Can I have a sidearm on my Gallente Logistics as well..? My Gal Logis carry multiple scanners 0.o. I think the point to keep in mind here is that your argument to make Assaults better by discouraging the Slayer Logi is flawed. The Slayer Logi exist because the Assault bonus suck. The combat medic/engineer has a place, and that place shouldn't be undermine because the Assaults in there current setup do not. Indulge me for a moment and answer this like a CPM Candidate question. What bonus would you give to the Assault classes to make them more attractive without taking away from the other roles? Personally as someone who owns 3 of the 4 assaults, I dont have a problem against Logis, just scouts and heavys. As far as the bonuses go I like them. I think the suits need some ewar tweaks, give us better precision and range for offensive capabilities. And a little more cpu pg so that I can tank and carry a proto weapon and at least a adv level sidearm. And im good with my assault really. But tiericide on Logis just feels wrong man.
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 86	Posted - 2014.07.10 23:30:00 - [7] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: aaaasdff ertgfdd wrote: In the past I would have agreed completely. But think about it, Logis are not the slayers they were back in the day, not by half. And even back then it was mostly Cal and Gal, for along time just Caldari really. I think the focus should be on buff Assaults first, then look at logis. Not both at the same time. Agree completely, and if I had my way, we wouldn't even touch Logistics until Hotfix Delta. And sure, it's gotten better since the early days but you ask me to pick between Gal Assault and Gal Logi right now, probably go with the Gallente Logi because the slot layout is better, the fitting cost reduction to equipment trumps weaponry, and dispersion reduction doesn't hardly do jack of [redacted] when it only really applies to the Assault Rifle and Shotgun. All at the cost of a little survivability (covered by the fitting) and some speed. But even then it's bonus toward active scanners is competing with Scouts' passive scans. To expand on my earlier point though, I feel like the only real bonus we can give Assaults at this point without them bleeding into other roles is a regeneration bonus. Armor repair, shield recharge, stuff like that. Damage/rate of fire shoehorns the Commandos, fitting reductions on weaponry just aren't worth it, and extraneous bonuses like dispersion/reload speed are covered by other skills. Yes but it matters. I was in my adv cal assault yesterday. I had std scrambler, and std mag sec. I was fighting Grease Spillet on the back steps of the Gal research facility that leads down to the CRU. I had him down to half armor in his proto Gal Assault and he had my shields depleted. I switched to sidearm and unloaded a clip from my magsec and then began backing up the steps, second tier, as I continued to back up the third tier he came flying around the second tier looking right up at me, but thanks to my reload bonus as soon as his head popped around those steps I put him down, with some strafing and luck I survived. But I marked it in my head right then, I said wow my bonus just saved my a$$. Not the first time either! I cant tell you how many times that Mini assault suit bonus with my rs 90 has kept me alive from multiple scouts, or given me enough ammo in a clip to finish a hvy in his range.
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 88	Posted - 2014.07.11 00:06:00 - [8] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Go ahead and give the Caldari/Amarr Logistics their sidearms. If there's a resurgence of Slayer Logis and players aren't utilizing Logistics for the support role they're intended to be, it'll be evident almost immediately. /shrug I respect your opinions, but I am curious if you feel there is a resurgence now with the Amarr already having that sidearm? I personally do not see it in games. Pc or pubs. Im just curious. Are you for tiericide of Logis? Do you support removing the Amarrs sidearm?
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 101	Posted - 2014.07.11 13:08:00 - [9] - Quote JRleo jr wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Would the people please stop trying to give assaults a fitting bonus to armor/shield extenders please? This wont solve the issue that they cannot kill a heavy quickly before it turns on his HMG to drill you with plenty of holes. I say it again: give assaults a rate of fire buff to increase their DPS. Assaults should be highly focused on damage output and not tanking till you look like a heavy with a rail rifle. Any 1 remember the day when there was the "bugged" federation assault rifles that had a rate of fire set at 1000? thats what we would get on assaults with a 25% rate of fire bonus (5% per lvl). It would not be OP cause only assaults had access to that kind of firepower, no scouts and aswell no scrub heavys that would fit a AR. And how i get on that number is pretty easy: AR ROF= 800 +25%= 1000 And why is every 1 so affraid that the time to kill would possibly go down? Hell i would love it if i have a chance fighting a heavy and not just allways have to run away cause a heavy with a logi is a no go in allmost every encounter. I would rather fight a assault with a rate of fire buff then a damn heavy that gets repped. I don't want rof My rr runs out of ammo fast enough already... I currently have 3 of the 4 assaults, and I like them and their bonus. I think they are unique and fun.
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 101	Posted - 2014.07.11 13:12:00 - [10] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Would the people please stop trying to give assaults a fitting bonus to armor/shield extenders please? This wont solve the issue that they cannot kill a heavy quickly before it turns on his HMG to drill you with plenty of holes. I say it again: give assaults a rate of fire buff to increase their DPS. Assaults should be highly focused on damage output and not tanking till you look like a heavy with a rail rifle. Any 1 remember the day when there was the "bugged" federation assault rifles that had a rate of fire set at 1000? thats what we would get on assaults with a 25% rate of fire bonus (5% per lvl). It would not be OP cause only assaults had access to that kind of firepower, no scouts and aswell no scrub heavys that would fit a AR. And how i get on that number is pretty easy: AR ROF= 800 +25%= 1000 And why is every 1 so affraid that the time to kill would possibly go down? Hell i would love it if i have a chance fighting a heavy and not just allways have to run away cause a heavy with a logi is a no go in allmost every encounter. I would rather fight a assault with a rate of fire buff then a damn heavy that gets repped. Im not sure I want the assaults that powerful. I think they are almost in a good place vs every suit except heavys, and they may be getting nerfed.

aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 102	Posted - 2014.07.12 02:01:00 - [11] - Quote Iron Toast wrote: Riptalis wrote: Need fix for vehicle collision damage! I'd rather see this than the ISK reduction for ADS. Possibly add a cheaper training' ADS that had the same flight characteristics as the ADS, but no turrets and maybe even no extra seats. I'm a new ADS pilot and collisions are by far my biggest death cause. I can usually escape AV, but crashes trying to learn maneuvers are expensive and the ADS handling is sufficiently different from the other DS I have to practice using it. Its called militia, already exists, very cheap.
aaaasdff ertgfdd Brutor Vanguard Minmatar Republic 102	Posted - 2014.07.12 02:04:00 - [12] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: Min logi has 12 slots gal logi has 12 slots Cal logi has 12 slots amar logi has 10 slots plus sidearm plus higher base stats. Ive always like the way logis were. 5,4,3 : 3,5,4 : 4,4,4 : and the amarr :) Goijg to hate to see the diversity in these slot loadouts gone. I know of they do it to logis they will eventually do it to the rest of us.
aaaasdff ertgfdd 124	Posted - 2014.07.13 17:46:00 - [13] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: I can comment very little on scout, assault, and heavy changes. BUT when it concerns logis I must get involved. I have played each Race and can go on about each variation that makes up a Logistics suit. This Proposal ....: * Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier. Is inadequate if any change is to be made - as these are not the changes that should be made at this time. Is unnecessary - when there has been no dominant problem other than slayers jumping classes - logis have stayed logis. Is retribution for imbalances that exist in other classes and not the logistics class. Is attempting tiericide that eliminates racial differences H/L/E slot counts that in turn benefited the natural base stats of each option. Is without basis in the community... thus, this must be either whim or stem from some analysis of data. AMARR And The SideArm The Amarr sacrifices more than an equipment slot for a side arm. While it does have the largest base hp (a whole 30!) more than the others it cannot compete in any tanking competition - it will always lose to the suits with more slots. The rest of its stats are pretty crap as well (basis for logis) - lacking slot count, horrible speed, WORST RACIAL BONUS EVER, and lower PG so that it can't even fill its Bonus Assigned Role effectively. It is reasonable the worst Logistics choice ever. THE ONLY REASON, really, to use this logi is to be a half logi half assault character with none of the bonuses from either. To this end it can use all Logi equipment as well as an assault - no bonuses - (Drop Uplinks are not Logi items - that is a separate discussion) and use a weapon and sidearm with no bonuses either that would come from the assault side. The only benefits is to have some equipment on hand for the team (or yourself) and semi slay-and/or semi-logi that's it. The GAL beats it in Tank and EQ. Minmatar in Tank and EQ. and CAL beats it in tanking and its slaying abilities because of all its slots. And yet I love to play this logi - because it is a challenge. The Amarr pays to high a price for the wealth of one side arm slot. But it is the only thing it has - the side-arm is the racial bonus. If that is removed it truly has no value outside of a PC battle. Tiericide for Logis If this is a test - communicate it as such. Perhaps we would be willing with a plan that can be explained - so I guess we are still waiting for the details (i just haven't seen them). IF it is not just a test CCP wants to conduct then lets get into the details of HOW will the slots and equipment be equalized? will it be H/L/E: 5/4/3 or 4/5/4 or 4/4/4 or 3/3/4? A 4/5/4 Amarr logi would be awesome but a 3/3/4 Amarr is old news and not really a change beyond one more equipment slot that couldn't be filled due to pg/cpu limits. ARE we going back to the old Minmatar Standard that was in the old days for all logi support? will this mean that all suits will be flattened? Racial diversity diminished? boiling this whole game into separate classes, same stats between them, and only costume differences? I WOULD REALLY LIKE SOME MORE DETAILS! IF so there will be another re-balancing act when this all hit the other classes as well. IFF we are going to do this lets do it right and open up a DEV thread for balancing. IN MY view the logi of each race should have the equal H/L slots of its ASSAULT brother (but that needs a whole balancing review as well) with lower base stats and more equipment slots. I think it would be great to be able to swap a side arm for a grenade slot and vice versa.... if we were throwing ideas into the pot that is. SUMMARY: Leave the AMARR side arm for now. Present us with this Tiericide Proposal so we can rip it up/add our experience to the idea. Generally a bad moment to just drop this out of the blue with other issues needing priority. Damn, its like I said it, except without all my insults and sarcasm. I completely agree. The biggest thing that bothers me here is the notion of tiericide. We dont want it. Let me be clear CCP Rattati, WE DON'T WANT TIERICIDE in Dust. We want choice, freedom, diversity, uniqueness. Im sure tiericide makes your job easier but we do not want it. Unique stats, slots, and design, we want it all. It gives us the freedom. Cloaks are equipment, they do not belong to scouts, dont try to make an item only for a certain suit. You give logis a fitting bonus, it applies to all equipment. Dont cop duces now.The biggest problem I have is WHERE IS THIS COMING FROM? Why are you doing this now? Who wants this? Who asked for it? Why are you artificially making an issue where there is none? An answer please. INFINITE DIVERSITY IDIC/ Peaceful Pirate No Dagger Just Swagger/ Num1 AHole in Dust/ Politically Incorrect MAN

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