DUST Search - Hotfix Charlie

CCP Rattati wrote:

Aeon Amadi wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

Malkai Inos wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

*snip*

The Nanite Injector WP scaling is great news. Is there any possibility of squeezing in tier based scaling for repair tools aswell? While to a lesser extent, they have the exact same problem of higher tiers being a clear downgrade in purely economic terms.

Also, regarding OMS. Could you elaborate on why you believe further reducing the number of game modes, Pilots and AV infantry can participate in with their preferred playstyle, is necessary?

Let me use a loaded question to articulate my concern: Would you say that non-AV capable infantry players require/deserve a vehicle free game mode for the sake of it, or is this decision purely driven by current balance issues and thus a (theoretically) temporary concession?

Every single FPS game that I have played has a vehicle free TDM. I see no reason why DUST 514 should not have it. I am fine with vehicles moving to Dom and Skirm because they are objective based.

Sure, but most FPS games don't have a long-term skill investment into those vehicles. Trust me when I say that I don't like where vehicles are at without them having a clear cut significant role to play on the battlefield beyond just slaying (which most infantry already do), but I was against taking them out of Ambush and now that we're taking them out of Ambush OMS... I'm starting to wonder where this is going to end. Don't remove them from the game-mode JUST BECAUSE every other game has a vehicle-free game mode, in fact, I'd argue that that's the -LAST- reason you should have to remove them from a game mode.

It's important to understand that, even if it's over-powered as hell, it's still in the game and people are still choosing this as their play-style. By removing that play-style from certain game modes, you're effectively punishing the player for making that choice and limiting their options. My primary question is -WHY- are we removing them from the game modes? Because they're powerful? Of course they are, that's how they were designed. They were designed without any role to play -OTHER- than slaying and moving people around.

Let me don the tin foil for a second and be clear of what I'm trying to illustrate, in order of the timeline of events:

Black Ops HAVs were removed because they were in a weird place.

Marauder HAVs were removed because they were too powerful.

Scout LAVs, Logistics LAVs, Logistics Dropships, and Enforcer HAVs were removed because they were in a weird place.

Removed all of the variants of turrets (stabilized, etc) and completely overhauled the modules.

Removed vehicles from Ambush.

Now we're removing vehicles from Ambush OMS.

I get that they're unbalanced, I get that they're a pressure point, but if you ask me, I think these changes are being made because vehicles were designed poorly from the get go. Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm fully willing to accept that possibility, but it's starting to look like that poor design isn't being evaluated correctly and the slippery slope of trying to deal with them is taking effect.

What functional role can vehicles perform that infantry can't?
Why should they perform that role?
What are the ways that they can be designed to perform that role?
What are the ways we can consider that doesn't make that role over-powered?

That's all I got to say on that. Will post my other thoughts on the hotfix in a separate post.

In my opinion vehicles should never have been in Ambush. Simple. It's not because they are unbalanced or other reasons. I would be happy to have a vehicle only mode but that's never going to happen, due to how vehicles are brought into the game, and optimization problems. I just don't think vehicles are entitled to be in every mode. We would only be punishing vehicles if they were banned from all game modes.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 43 post(s)
Senator Snipe Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 166	Posted - 2014.07.13 14:18:00 - [1] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Malkai Inos wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: snip The Nanite Injector WP scaling is great news. Is there any possibility of squeezing in tier based scaling for repair tools aswell? While to a lesser extent, they have the exact same problem of higher tiers being a clear downgrade in purely economic terms. Also, regarding OMS. Could you elaborate on why you believe further reducing the number of game modes, Pilots and AV infantry can participate in with their preferred playstyle, is necessary? Let me use a loaded question to articulate my concern: Would you say that non-AV capable infantry players require/deserve a vehicle free game mode for the sake of it, or is this decision purely driven by current balance issues and thus a (theoretically) temporary concession? Every single FPS game that I have played has a vehicle free TDM. I see no reason why DUST 514 should not have it. I am fine with vehicles moving to Dom and Skirm because they are objective based. Sure, but most FPS games don't have a long-term skill investment into those vehicles. Trust me when I say that I don't like where vehicles are at without them having a clear cut significant role to play on the battlefield beyond just slaying (which most infantry already do), but I was against taking them out of Ambush and now that we're taking them out of Ambush OMS... I'm starting to wonder where this is going to end. Don't remove them from the game-mode JUST BECAUSE every other game has a vehicle-free game mode, in fact, I'd argue that that's the -LAST- reason you should have to remove them from a game mode. It's important to understand that, even if it's over-powered as hell, it's still in the game and people are still choosing this as their play-style. By removing that play-style from certain game modes, you're effectively punishing the player for making that choice and limiting their options. My primary question is -WHY- are we removing them from the game modes? Because they're powerful? Of course they are, that's how they were designed. They were designed without any role to play -OTHER- than slaying and moving people around. Let me don the tin foil for a second and be clear of what I'm trying to illustrate, in order of the timeline of events: Black Ops HAVs were removed because they were in a weird place. Marauder HAVs were removed because they were too powerful. Scout LAVs, Logistics LAVs, Logistics Dropships, and Enforcer HAVs were removed because they were in a weird place. Removed all of the variants of turrets (stabilized, etc) and completely overhauled the modules. Removed vehicles from Ambush. Now we're removing vehicles from Ambush OMS. I get that they're unbalanced, I get that they're a pressure point, but if you ask me, I think these changes are being made because vehicles were designed poorly from the get go. Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm fully willing to accept that possibility, but it's starting to look like that poor design isn't being evaluated correctly and the slippery slope of trying to deal with them is taking effect. What functional role can vehicles perform that infantry can't? Why should they perform that role? What are the ways that they can be designed to perform that role? What are the ways we can consider that doesn't make that role over-powered? That's all I got to say on that. Will post my other thoughts on the hotfix in a separate post. In my opinion vehicles should never have been in Ambush. Simple. It's not because they are unbalanced or other reasons. I would be happy to have a vehicle only mode but that's never going to happen, due to how vehicles are brought into the game, and optimization problems. I just don't think vehicles are entitled to be in every mode. We would only be punishing vehicles if they were banned from all game modes. Trust me, if you had left us the option to chose between ambush and ambush OMS while keeping the "Tanks in OMS only" rule, you wouln't hear our mouths. All you have to do is leave it how it is now, and just give us the option to chose between ambush and OMS. I don't like playing skirmish and dom, its too long. I don't see why i have to play these modes to destroy vehicles now. My forge skills are unmatchable