I imagine it'll be 4 across the board.

Fix the amarr logi's bonus to apply even after death!!!!

please?

For some reason I had 25% versus 15% for scouts, thanks for the correction. We can drop the removal of the bonus to cloaks no problem.

Dear Rattati...
We have a chance to get the promised:

1. Delay before remote explosive activation?
2. Delay before shot after decloaking?

???????????????????????????????????????


Mindless parkour just infuriates!

Sure, but most FPS games don't have a long-term skill investment into those vehicles. Trust me when I say that I don't like where vehicles are at without them having a clear cut significant role to play on the battlefield beyond just slaying (which most infantry already do), but I was against taking them out of Ambush and now that we're taking them out of Ambush OMS... I'm starting to wonder where this is going to end. Don't remove them from the game-mode JUST BECAUSE every other game has a vehicle-free game mode, in fact, I'd argue that that's the -LAST- reason you should have to remove them from a game mode.

It's important to understand that, even if it's over-powered as hell, it's still in the game and people are still choosing this as their play-style. By removing that play-style from certain game modes, you're effectively punishing the player for making that choice and limiting their options. My primary question is -WHY- are we removing them from the game modes? Because they're powerful? Of course they are, that's how they were designed. They were designed without any role to play -OTHER- than slaying and moving people around.

Let me don the tin foil for a second and be clear of what I'm trying to illustrate, in order of the timeline of events:

Black Ops HAVs were removed because they were in a weird place.

Marauder HAVs were removed because they were too powerful.

Scout LAVs, Logistics LAVs, Logistics Dropships, and Enforcer HAVs were removed because they were in a weird place.

Removed all of the variants of turrets (stabilized, etc) and completely overhauled the modules.

Removed vehicles from Ambush.

Now we're removing vehicles from Ambush OMS.

I get that they're unbalanced, I get that they're a pressure point, but if you ask me, I think these changes are being made because vehicles were designed poorly from the get go. Maybe I'm wrong, and I'm fully willing to accept that possibility, but it's starting to look like that poor design isn't being evaluated correctly and the slippery slope of trying to deal with them is taking effect.

What functional role can vehicles perform that infantry can't?
Why should they perform that role?
What are the ways that they can be designed to perform that role?
What are the ways we can consider that doesn't make that role over-powered?

That's all I got to say on that. Will post my other thoughts on the hotfix in a separate post.

Overall we need to start stepping back and start looking at the larger picture of things of teaching players proper roles for every class and the range of roles a class can fulfill; having an assault like attribute on a logistics suit is as I said before muddling.

I don't think that Logis are in a bad spot right now. The popularity of Logi-suits compared to Assault suit stems from the fact that Scouts are better Assault suits than Assaults and the other half of the Assaults became heavies. With no Assaults on the ground of course Logis are relatively more popular. Restructuring Logis sounds like the completely wrong way to fix the problem.

Also back on the Caldari/Amarr role-switch:
Wasn't the original design for slots that people *should* share their main slot type between tank and other modules?
A Caldari Scout should share precision and shields so we don't have super-eWar-super-shield-Scouts and a Gallente Scout should share dampeners and armor so you can't be tanked *and* dampened. That's why the range bonus fits so well with the Amarr scout. It can't have super range while also being super tanky. But I guess we can throw that sort of decision making out of the window now. Stacking ehp, it is.

I think you are doing it wrong... The AV equivalent for a logi suit is supposed to be prox mines or remote explosives, and you can add in the AV nades as some extra if you like.

I think you are doing it wrong... The AV equivalent for a logi suit is supposed to be prox mines or remote explosives, and you can add in the AV nades as some extra if you like.

IMO, Logistics have too many High and Low slots while at the same time their bonuses being limited to only a single Equipment make them no better at being a support player than any other suit. to me that is not a good place.

Logi bonus needs to make them better at using all equipment (not just fitting it). Assault bonus needs to make them better at assault role

Bugs/issues that need Client update
Pilot stacking bug

He would be right....that helps dropships and gunners. It makes python able to do AV. I wouldn't call that a bug. It's an incentive for putting all of that sp into that skill

??? What? Seriously? I was only posting about them everyday for a week a couple weeks back! How quickly people forget things. These are still problems in the game.

In addition, the scout dropsuits being better at assault than assaults are is sitll a problem and won't be fixed by the proposed Charlie fixes. Instead Scouts need to either loose their sidearm slot (still have the light weapons slot that can be used for either light weapons or sidearms) or reduce the number of equipment slots to ONLY one just like everyone else that is NOT a logi! In either case the appropriate amount of PG/CPU reduction for the loss of either slot needs to be done concurrently to ensure that brick tanking scouts doesn't become the norm after that.

Why remove a slot from scouts? Because the original idea before cloaks was that Scouts should either gain an equipment slot and loose a sidearm slot to be able to do this OR they maintain the two weapon layout (one light with one sidearm) but do NOT gain an extra equipment slot.

Right now, a scout can cloak and still use all the same weapons an assault can which makes the scout more deadly than an assault for gunplay. This blurs the lines between the Assault and the Scout roles. Additionally, because they have TWO equipment slots, this make them into a "mini-logi" and this blurs the roles between Logi and Scout.

So by either removing the extra equipment slot or by removing the extra weapon slot (sidearm one) and the CPU/PG that goes with that slot removal, then you make the Scout have to choose it's role carefully. I personally would like to see the removal of the sidearm slot from the Scout suit much like the Logi has it removed. This makes it clear what the role of the Scout is to be in my mind.

The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance.

The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses.

All,

. . . stuff

The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance.

The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses.

* Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier.

I dont think we need to make logis just plain out worse than assaults; just not as desired for attack in comparison to assaults.

Assaults should be superior in pressing the enemy

Logis should be superior in pressing their allies forward.

I want the sidearm, that's a given. But I would prefer an equipment to a mod slot; improve my logi, not my slaying.

But there are two other logis with extra equipment, if you wanted the equipment over a sidearm, why not go min/gal? We specced amarr for a reason, that reason was links (broken atm) and a sidearm. Thats it...

I'm a proto amarr commando and I don't want assaults to have that skill because the only thing commandos have going for them is 2 lights. And giving amarr assault a damage and heat build up bonus will be as broken as Rihanna's jaw bone.....

I'm reposting this from another thread in hopes that either your or Logibro will read it.

You guys need to stop and ask yourselves what the role of the Caldari and Amarr logistics is on the field. They both drop passive equipment, and once that is done (literally takes about 1-2s to drop an uplink or nanohive) what is supposed to be their purpose on the battlefield?

If you think all logis should then pull out their rep tool and start repairing, then why would anyone run anything but Minmatar Logi? Simply for aesthetics? If a logi suit is supposed to spend the majority of their time repping, then there is almost no reason for any other logi suit to exist than the min logi, because it is specifically bonused for that.

The Minmatar and Gallente logi suits are centered around active equipment, that is, equipment you spend most of your time using. The Caldari and Amarr logi suits are centered around passive equipment, which leaves them free to pursue other non logistics tasks like slaying. This also makes sense as both of these passive equipment are meant to be more around the frontline, the Caldari and Amarr Logi need their combat efficacy to protect their passive equipment.

You need to think about each suits role on the field and how to better reinforce that idea.

Gallente/Minmatar
Active Equipment
High Mobility
Low combat efficiency
High Logistics efficiency

Amarr/Caldari
Passive equipment
Low mobility
Moderate combat efficiency
Low logistics efficiency

If you remove the sidearm on Amarr logi and give them a 4th equip slot, they just become a poor copy of the Min/Gal suits. They still have low logistics efficacy because their bonuses are not designed for logistics efficiency.

If you serious about type-II versions. Then you need to completely rethink the bonuses so that the high logistics efficiency variant has a bonus to active equipment and the combat efficiency variant has a bonus to passive equipment to better reinforce the role of each suit.

You would essentially need to make a set of medic suits centered entirely around the nanite injector and rep tool. While the combat version would be around passive equipment like hives and links. Every suit would have close to the same bonus, and the flavor would come from the slot layout. You could give the combat logi a L/S and the medic an S or S/S setup and boost the speed and hp of the medic up substantially to reinforce the role that they should be running around repping and reviving.

If you move forward with this as it is though, you will essentially render the non-Minmatar logi suits obsolete.

I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm.

Ah, okay, I see now...

Although, I think this is a pretty big cog in the overall balance of things at the expense of just having the Cal/Amarr Logi bonus apply after death but not with a suit change. So if you die, the bonus isn't lost, but if you change suits after death or at a supply depot, it would be.

It makes sense that Logistics would -NOT- have sidearms as a means of encouraging them to actually Logi instead of Slay, giving them the opportunity to do so as a means of circumventing doing things correctly is the problem we've always had with Dust 514 and I think we should go the extra mile to make sure it is, in fact, done correctly.

The bonuses applying to passive equipment (DU and Nanohive) is more reason, to me, NOT to give them a sidearm in the first place because once you drop the stuff there's no further reason to continue playing the Support Role unless you really like using those other equipment pieces. I just don't see much popularity in running all DU or all Nanohive fits. My concern is that players will drop their passive equipment and reap the benefits while slaying.

That's not what's causing the issue. The issue is that I cannot run with my repair tool locked onto my Heavy bro, so if he sprints, then is is faster and I loose lock on him around corners and then have a delay before I can relock onto him again.