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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
3689
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Posted - 2014.07.10 13:46:00 -
[421] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance.
The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. I'm reposting this from another thread in hopes that either your or Logibro will read it. You guys need to stop and ask yourselves what the role of the Caldari and Amarr logistics is on the field. They both drop passive equipment, and once that is done (literally takes about 1-2s to drop an uplink or nanohive) what is supposed to be their purpose on the battlefield? If you think all logis should then pull out their rep tool and start repairing, then why would anyone run anything but Minmatar Logi? Simply for aesthetics? If a logi suit is supposed to spend the majority of their time repping, then there is almost no reason for any other logi suit to exist than the min logi, because it is specifically bonused for that. The Minmatar and Gallente logi suits are centered around active equipment, that is, equipment you spend most of your time using. The Caldari and Amarr logi suits are centered around passive equipment, which leaves them free to pursue other non logistics tasks like slaying. This also makes sense as both of these passive equipment are meant to be more around the frontline, the Caldari and Amarr Logi need their combat efficacy to protect their passive equipment. You need to think about each suits role on the field and how to better reinforce that idea. Gallente/Minmatar Active Equipment High Mobility Low combat efficiency High Logistics efficiency Amarr/Caldari Passive equipment Low mobility Moderate combat efficiency Low logistics efficiency If you remove the sidearm on Amarr logi and give them a 4th equip slot, they just become a poor copy of the Min/Gal suits. They still have low logistics efficacy because their bonuses are not designed for logistics efficiency. If you serious about type-II versions. Then you need to completely rethink the bonuses so that the high logistics efficiency variant has a bonus to active equipment and the combat efficiency variant has a bonus to passive equipment to better reinforce the role of each suit. You would essentially need to make a set of medic suits centered entirely around the nanite injector and rep tool. While the combat version would be around passive equipment like hives and links. Every suit would have close to the same bonus, and the flavor would come from the slot layout. You could give the combat logi a L/S and the medic an S or S/S setup and boost the speed and hp of the medic up substantially to reinforce the role that they should be running around repping and reviving. If you move forward with this as it is though, you will essentially render the non-Minmatar logi suits obsolete. I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm.
*spits out coffee*
OMG. There is hope for this game after all....
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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Dj grammer
Red Star.
EoN.
275
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Posted - 2014.07.10 13:50:00 -
[422] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance.
The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. I'm reposting this from another thread in hopes that either your or Logibro will read it. You guys need to stop and ask yourselves what the role of the Caldari and Amarr logistics is on the field. They both drop passive equipment, and once that is done (literally takes about 1-2s to drop an uplink or nanohive) what is supposed to be their purpose on the battlefield? If you think all logis should then pull out their rep tool and start repairing, then why would anyone run anything but Minmatar Logi? Simply for aesthetics? If a logi suit is supposed to spend the majority of their time repping, then there is almost no reason for any other logi suit to exist than the min logi, because it is specifically bonused for that. The Minmatar and Gallente logi suits are centered around active equipment, that is, equipment you spend most of your time using. The Caldari and Amarr logi suits are centered around passive equipment, which leaves them free to pursue other non logistics tasks like slaying. This also makes sense as both of these passive equipment are meant to be more around the frontline, the Caldari and Amarr Logi need their combat efficacy to protect their passive equipment. You need to think about each suits role on the field and how to better reinforce that idea. Gallente/Minmatar Active Equipment High Mobility Low combat efficiency High Logistics efficiency Amarr/Caldari Passive equipment Low mobility Moderate combat efficiency Low logistics efficiency If you remove the sidearm on Amarr logi and give them a 4th equip slot, they just become a poor copy of the Min/Gal suits. They still have low logistics efficacy because their bonuses are not designed for logistics efficiency. If you serious about type-II versions. Then you need to completely rethink the bonuses so that the high logistics efficiency variant has a bonus to active equipment and the combat efficiency variant has a bonus to passive equipment to better reinforce the role of each suit. You would essentially need to make a set of medic suits centered entirely around the nanite injector and rep tool. While the combat version would be around passive equipment like hives and links. Every suit would have close to the same bonus, and the flavor would come from the slot layout. You could give the combat logi a L/S and the medic an S or S/S setup and boost the speed and hp of the medic up substantially to reinforce the role that they should be running around repping and reviving. If you move forward with this as it is though, you will essentially render the non-Minmatar logi suits obsolete. I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm.
Okay now were are getting somewhere. Give assaults a bonus to damage modifiers is cool but it will need a bit more to sell me on assaults.
CCP Logibro was already thinking on bringing back Type-II suits but your Idea is a great start. To run a sidearm on any logi besides Amarr should cost you an arm and/or a leg. In other words costing you a high slot, a low slot, both a high and low slot, equipment slot and etc.
why ccp?
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IRON PATRIOT 1
General Tso's Alliance
150
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 13:56:00 -
[423] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:All,
After crowdsourcing, data crunching, reviewing internally and discussing with the CPM, we are ready with a non-finite list for Hotfix Charlie. As always, this is the narrative and any, all or none of the ideas may end up being implemented.
Hotfix Charlie
* Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase.
* A slight HMG heat buildup increase
* Reduce Sentinel PG/CPU. Possibly a fitting bonus to Heavy Weapons.
* Installation buff, with a range and AI range reduction, reduction of granted WP for destruction.
* Blaster turret accuracy improvements, both Small and Large
* Modification of scout bonuses, with Amarr getting a precision bonus, a low radius strong field of scanning on top of a heavily armored suit, and Caldari retaining a long range scan ability.
* Minmatar will be improved by a Codebreaker fitting reduction, possibly KinCats as well. Possibly moving Codebreakers to High slot. PG increase.
* Nova Knife hit detection and damage improvement
* Reduced small rail range compared to sniper range
* Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier.
* WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP
* Reactive Plates to 1-2-3 hp/s
* OB WP doubled
* LP payout increased x-fold
* Remove Ambush OMS or remove Vehicles from Ambush OMS
* Reduced ADS ISK price
Still under tech evaluation
* Disabling passive Scan sharing with squads
* Suicide/Bleedout/Overview option properly enforces that revival is not possible
* We have identified almost all the suits that have the wrong colors and are trying to get those fixed.
* Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free
Bugs/issues that need Client update
Pilot stacking bug
Unfair fall damage calculation
Unfair War points and distribution from OB kills
Directional arrow for enemies on minimap bug
Hotfix Delta or later
*Sidearm rebalance
*Sniper Rifle review
*Efficacy bonuses
*Further slot based PG/CPU updates based on necessity
I hope when you say that your giving the amaar scout suit precision bonus your not taking away the caldari's just giving the amaar the higher bonus out of the two. It would be piontless to have a long range scan suit when you can only detect medium and heavy frames. Majority of the scouts in competitive play use two profile dampners, having that bonus helps counter most not all. Take it away and you'll be making the caldari as bad as the amaar is now.
This is how I see it
Amaar = High Precision & High Stamina
Caldari = Moderate Precision & Wide Field
Gallente = High Damp & Moderate Field
Minmatar = Fast Hacking & High Mobility
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John Demonsbane
Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics
League of Infamy
3689
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 13:56:00 -
[424] - Quote
Dj grammer wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance.
The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. I'm reposting this from another thread in hopes that either your or Logibro will read it. You guys need to stop and ask yourselves what the role of the Caldari and Amarr logistics is on the field. They both drop passive equipment, and once that is done (literally takes about 1-2s to drop an uplink or nanohive) what is supposed to be their purpose on the battlefield? If you think all logis should then pull out their rep tool and start repairing, then why would anyone run anything but Minmatar Logi? Simply for aesthetics? If a logi suit is supposed to spend the majority of their time repping, then there is almost no reason for any other logi suit to exist than the min logi, because it is specifically bonused for that. The Minmatar and Gallente logi suits are centered around active equipment, that is, equipment you spend most of your time using. The Caldari and Amarr logi suits are centered around passive equipment, which leaves them free to pursue other non logistics tasks like slaying. This also makes sense as both of these passive equipment are meant to be more around the frontline, the Caldari and Amarr Logi need their combat efficacy to protect their passive equipment. You need to think about each suits role on the field and how to better reinforce that idea. Gallente/Minmatar Active Equipment High Mobility Low combat efficiency High Logistics efficiency Amarr/Caldari Passive equipment Low mobility Moderate combat efficiency Low logistics efficiency If you remove the sidearm on Amarr logi and give them a 4th equip slot, they just become a poor copy of the Min/Gal suits. They still have low logistics efficacy because their bonuses are not designed for logistics efficiency. If you serious about type-II versions. Then you need to completely rethink the bonuses so that the high logistics efficiency variant has a bonus to active equipment and the combat efficiency variant has a bonus to passive equipment to better reinforce the role of each suit. You would essentially need to make a set of medic suits centered entirely around the nanite injector and rep tool. While the combat version would be around passive equipment like hives and links. Every suit would have close to the same bonus, and the flavor would come from the slot layout. You could give the combat logi a L/S and the medic an S or S/S setup and boost the speed and hp of the medic up substantially to reinforce the role that they should be running around repping and reviving. If you move forward with this as it is though, you will essentially render the non-Minmatar logi suits obsolete. I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm. Okay now were are getting somewhere. Give assaults a bonus to damage modifiers is cool but it will need a bit more to sell me on assaults. CCP Logibro was already thinking on bringing back Type-II suits but your Idea is a great start. To run a sidearm on any logi besides Amarr should cost you an arm and/or a leg. In other words costing you a high slot, a low slot, both a high and low slot, equipment slot and etc.
Good point, you would either need to take more than one slot away for the cal logi, or you need to add one to the Amarr because it currently basically gives up a low and an equip slot for the sidearm.
Personally I'd like another slot on my Amarr logi because it just makes more sense as it either is no better at support than a scout at STD, or has a bad slot layout for an armor tanker overall. But, either way is fine, the cal logi always did have a ludicrous number of slots.
(The godfather of tactical logistics)
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NanoCleric
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
119
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Posted - 2014.07.10 14:19:00 -
[425] - Quote
NanoCleric wrote:
* snip *
Personally.. I think the 'most' important thing you could do, would be to add some validation to user input..
- If the fire button is pressed faster than a 'human speed tolerance' then you don't call the fire routine.. (i.e. you've detected they are using autofire.. so don't allow the fire code to actually run until that human tolerance has passed.).
- If you detect a change in direction and acceleration beyond what is humanly possible using a DSJoystick or keyboard keys.. clamp the acceleration values.. or even penalise them.. Strafing speeds are a 'massive' problem.
As for aim assist.. pff.. i could go on for days on how badly coded that is... It should certainly not run 'every' time the fire routine runs.
Where do these comments come from? .. I've been programming AAA games for many years myself in industry.. and seeing these problems makes me cringe... they MUST be addressed to stop people being able to strafe side to side at impossible speed while 'also' aiming with insane precsion and not missing us. It's no fun to play against 'computer aided movement + computer aided rapid firing + computer dead lock aiming'.... This simply 'must' be addressed to bring 'human skill' back into the game.
If you ever want to discuss things like this Rattati so long as your NDA permits it.. then by all means contact me... (can mail me on NanoCleric or DaiReaver and i'll provide my skype details). In some ways i wish i was there so i could change the code myself... but in honesty.. i'd never want to work for CCP with what i've seen.
Edit: An afterthought.. you have a stamina mechanic.. you could use that to reduce the speedy strafe crap which goes on too.. Every time someone changes direction when strafing.. check the speed at which they did it.. and use that value to reduce the stamina gauge... If their stam is low when they change direction.. their acceleration is extremely penalized.. so they may be able to perform a quick shimmy.. but then they will be very slow and sluggish.. As opposed to all the other changes proposed.. things like this will give you a bigger win with the community..... Plus.. you could add in an accuracy penalty, or 'jolt' when they change direction.. Try it in real life and see how stable you can keep your arms pointed at a target when you change direction that fast..
Rattati, can we get a response on the above quote from my previous post... Can we hope to get any resolution on these incredibly problematic mechanics?
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lee corwood
Knights Of Ender
RISE of LEGION
897
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 14:32:00 -
[426] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
* Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier.
Can I get clarification if this means all logis are stepping up to the Min Logi configuration or are you stripping down slots across the board to a lower slot configuration for everyone? Either way I agree with a previous poster. Right now Min is the most viable because the other logi's don't have real roles to fill. Instead of a blanket change that basically dissipates any uniqueness about the logis, you should consider placing real value to the other suits.
CCP Rattati wrote:
Still under tech evaluation
* Reduce ISK cost of early skillbooks for new players or free
This should certainly be done in Academy (along with an overhaul). There needs to be more education on the value of skills to begin with. Many descriptions miss vitally important information on them that a new player would not know that a player of long time is aware of. Those inheritable bases now are completely missed by the new player.
However, at first, there are only a few places a new player can go at entry level tiers. The first 3 skillbook purchases at minimum should be free. Skillbooks are more expensive than I remember (mostly because I have bought most all of them by now and don't have money issues), but '100k' + for entry level skills like 'Dropsuit Command' isn't helping the new player. Especially when they're making maybe 1,000 - 10,000 a battle starting out.
Consider a change for the Ion Pistol Skill
Leveling up only increases the charge time but I don't see how that's helpful if every charge shot overheats the gun. I'd rather see a decrease to overheat time.
Basic nitpicks
- please consider looking at the revive bugs. They are numerous
- please stop changing my channel when typing
- I'd really like the ability to see squad (not the whole team, just squad) names at all times, not just when my rep tool is out. It would make it infinitely easier to coordinate and defend orders more well thought out. Also if they're far away and/or behind a hill, a rep tool won't even give me their name, nor will targeting them on my gun.
- Change the way SL orders are implemented. Instead of making me have to point and click on a person, give me a list instead. Objectives themselves are easy to paint, but when greenberries are moving, in fights, flying/driving, etc. It takes a good number of tries to get the defend order on a person. There are at most 5 objectives and 6 people on my team (including me). I think having a scrolling list of 11 items would be much preferred and faster than 3 failed attempts to not get the wrong random blueberry or 'invalid target'.
Minmatar Logisis | Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
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Booby Tuesdays
Ahrendee Mercenaries
623
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Posted - 2014.07.10 14:32:00 -
[427] - Quote
Jack McReady wrote:as long as I can use my minmatar logi for babysitting just like it do it now I dont care, my proto logi fit is:
4 proto shield extenders
3 basic ferroscale plates
1 proto armor repairer
proto smg
proto nade
proro repair tool
proto nanite injector
proto nanohive
proto gauged drop uplink
decent mix of durability and speed to follow my teammates around the map. full rack of proto equipment to babysit my teammembers along with an SMG and nades for self defense.
you already ruined my fast hacking minmatar logi and I will finally quit if you ruin this fit too.
Agreed that the Min Logi needs no changes except maybe a speed or stamina increase. In all fairness though, the hacking bonus on the Min Logi was only nerfed by 5%. It still gets a 20% speed bonus.
Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V
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Cross Atu
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2572
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 14:34:00 -
[428] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:All sorts of cool stuff
Loving most of this so far 
CCP Rattati wrote:All,
Hotfix Charlie
* Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase.
* Move all logistics to the same number of Equipment slots per tier, removing the Amarr sidearm. Reduce Logi speed slightly and remove Cloak fitting bonus. Same total of high and low slots as well per tier.
* WP for injectors, STD/ADV/PRO 25/50/75 WP
100% in favor of the iterative approach to balance.
There are some pairings above with raise a bit of concern however regarding the order in which they're being selected.
So here are my concerns. The Primary Objective is fine, in fact long needed. Having the primary facet of the objective be attained by an HP buff (especially of that really is just HP/raw buffer and not actually eHP) is concerning. The Assault niche is not defined by its tank nor even it's slots (though a look at those certainly does make sense) and pinning balance on an HP, or even eHP centric method is very likely to cause role/frame overlap issues between the Assault in light frames, logi frames and the eHP balance on heavy frames.
Now that being said the Assault almost certainly does need some love when it comes to eHP, but as the primary or first metric to push rather than anything that helps define their niche and role as LW specialists, that's concerning it strikes me as unsettlingly similar to the logi bonus swap/equipment nerf from awhile back that was a bit too heavy on the 'symptomatic medicine' of addressing the immediate context rather than working for a more cohesive long view.
The logistics equipment slot change has needed to happen since the role bonus was changed, it's a matter of internal racial value added from the effects of the role bonus. But removing the Amarr sidearm (especially while it's racial bonus is still improperly apply/bugged) really constrains that racial suit, eliminating and/or not supporting much of a unique role for it.
Related, the WP scaling on injectors has been called for since closed beta so thank you for addressing that. It's greatly appreciated. I do have to say I'd hoped for an iteration on it with a more dynamic earnings bonus rather than a raw/hard coded one but I'm guessing this is a tech issue, so I won't look a gift horse in the mouth over this one.
It does however highlight the issue of the entire equipment line. The fix to Injector scaling, while wonderful and long needed, is only part of the problem that needs to be addressed. And while there might be reasons that doing it all at once isn't idea, I notice a lack of any
*overhaul and properly scale the equipment line
item on the Delta or later list. Which makes this concerning.
The long running equipment thread I started in closed beta round codex is still present and as yet had not comment from development since the hotfix cycle began. These issues are persistent, directly effect medium frame balance, and need to be addressed.
CCP Rattati wrote:
Still under tech evaluation
Bugs/issues that need Client update
Hotfix Delta or later
^Liking these overall 
0.02 ISK as of this time
Cross
Vote Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate
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The True Inferno
Myrmidon Syndicate
16
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Posted - 2014.07.10 14:35:00 -
[429] - Quote
For suit skills I believe that they should be set around a type or area of item, such as equipment, sheild or armor modules, biotic modules, light weapons etc. Either that or they should be passive, effecting the suits own stats such as scan radius, run speed, stamina recover etc. Skills in suits should not tie you down to one equipment, weapon or specific module. The skills should allow freedom yet still retain use in most fits/situations (that fall between the lines of common sense) this give players large amounts of freedom in their suits role.
ScP = GÖÑ
|
BlazeXYZ
xCosmic Voidx
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
37
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 14:38:00 -
[430] - Quote
For Assault is there any plans in changing some of the suits bonuses. You guys are redesigning the whole aspect of the assault right?
- I don't want to have a trend where the scouts become assaults again after hotfix charlie deploys.
The Blazing Intellect Machine
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
948
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 14:41:00 -
[431] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance.
The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. I'm reposting this from another thread in hopes that either your or Logibro will read it. You guys need to stop and ask yourselves what the role of the Caldari and Amarr logistics is on the field. They both drop passive equipment, and once that is done (literally takes about 1-2s to drop an uplink or nanohive) what is supposed to be their purpose on the battlefield? If you think all logis should then pull out their rep tool and start repairing, then why would anyone run anything but Minmatar Logi? Simply for aesthetics? If a logi suit is supposed to spend the majority of their time repping, then there is almost no reason for any other logi suit to exist than the min logi, because it is specifically bonused for that. The Minmatar and Gallente logi suits are centered around active equipment, that is, equipment you spend most of your time using. The Caldari and Amarr logi suits are centered around passive equipment, which leaves them free to pursue other non logistics tasks like slaying. This also makes sense as both of these passive equipment are meant to be more around the frontline, the Caldari and Amarr Logi need their combat efficacy to protect their passive equipment. You need to think about each suits role on the field and how to better reinforce that idea. Gallente/Minmatar Active Equipment High Mobility Low combat efficiency High Logistics efficiency Amarr/Caldari Passive equipment Low mobility Moderate combat efficiency Low logistics efficiency If you remove the sidearm on Amarr logi and give them a 4th equip slot, they just become a poor copy of the Min/Gal suits. They still have low logistics efficacy because their bonuses are not designed for logistics efficiency. If you serious about type-II versions. Then you need to completely rethink the bonuses so that the high logistics efficiency variant has a bonus to active equipment and the combat efficiency variant has a bonus to passive equipment to better reinforce the role of each suit. You would essentially need to make a set of medic suits centered entirely around the nanite injector and rep tool. While the combat version would be around passive equipment like hives and links. Every suit would have close to the same bonus, and the flavor would come from the slot layout. You could give the combat logi a L/S and the medic an S or S/S setup and boost the speed and hp of the medic up substantially to reinforce the role that they should be running around repping and reviving. If you move forward with this as it is though, you will essentially render the non-Minmatar logi suits obsolete. I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm.
His post mirrors my own thoughts.
Because, that's why.
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lee corwood
Knights Of Ender
RISE of LEGION
897
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 14:42:00 -
[432] - Quote
The True Inferno wrote:For suit skills I believe that they should be set around a type or area of item, such as equipment, sheild or armor modules, biotic modules, light weapons etc. Either that or they should be passive, effecting the suits own stats such as scan radius, run speed, stamina recover etc. Skills in suits should not tie you down to one equipment, weapon or specific module. The skills should allow freedom yet still retain use in most fits/situations (that fall between the lines of common sense) this give players large amounts of freedom in their suits role.
This was my first initial problem with the eq bonus of the logi. It kills what I thought was the coolest part of Dust514 fittings: the ability to mold your suit into your specific play style, whatever that ended up being. I would have rathered effectiveness of eq been skill trees of their own instead of suit sinks, but oh well.
Minmatar Logisis | Heavy lover. Ping for video services.
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Vrain Matari
Mikramurka Shock Troop
Minmatar Republic
2145
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Posted - 2014.07.10 14:43:00 -
[433] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:The speed changes are to differentiate better between Assault and Logis. The slowest Logis would still of course move faster than the fastest heavy, something like +0.05 on the Assault or -0.05 on the Logi. So if that's the biggest worry, we have no problem in only buffing the Assault speed.
We'd get more role differentiation and add flavour to the game if we confine an Assault speed buff to sprinting only.
A sprint speed buff fits the assault role perfectly but still leaves the scouts the better choice for covering large areas.
PSN: RationalSpark
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Al the destroyer
Vengeance Unbound
161
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Posted - 2014.07.10 14:51:00 -
[434] - Quote
If your going to take the sidearm from the A logi you must give it the same pg as the other logis 102 at max skills
AMERICA! WITHOUT US YOU WOULD HAVE NO ONE TO LOOK UP TO. GET SUM!
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Zatara Rought
General Tso's Alliance
3570
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Posted - 2014.07.10 14:57:00 -
[435] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance.
The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. I'm reposting this from another thread in hopes that either your or Logibro will read it. You guys need to stop and ask yourselves what the role of the Caldari and Amarr logistics is on the field. They both drop passive equipment, and once that is done (literally takes about 1-2s to drop an uplink or nanohive) what is supposed to be their purpose on the battlefield? If you think all logis should then pull out their rep tool and start repairing, then why would anyone run anything but Minmatar Logi? Simply for aesthetics? If a logi suit is supposed to spend the majority of their time repping, then there is almost no reason for any other logi suit to exist than the min logi, because it is specifically bonused for that. The Minmatar and Gallente logi suits are centered around active equipment, that is, equipment you spend most of your time using. The Caldari and Amarr logi suits are centered around passive equipment, which leaves them free to pursue other non logistics tasks like slaying. This also makes sense as both of these passive equipment are meant to be more around the frontline, the Caldari and Amarr Logi need their combat efficacy to protect their passive equipment. You need to think about each suits role on the field and how to better reinforce that idea. Gallente/Minmatar Active Equipment High Mobility Low combat efficiency High Logistics efficiency Amarr/Caldari Passive equipment Low mobility Moderate combat efficiency Low logistics efficiency If you remove the sidearm on Amarr logi and give them a 4th equip slot, they just become a poor copy of the Min/Gal suits. They still have low logistics efficacy because their bonuses are not designed for logistics efficiency. If you serious about type-II versions. Then you need to completely rethink the bonuses so that the high logistics efficiency variant has a bonus to active equipment and the combat efficiency variant has a bonus to passive equipment to better reinforce the role of each suit. You would essentially need to make a set of medic suits centered entirely around the nanite injector and rep tool. While the combat version would be around passive equipment like hives and links. Every suit would have close to the same bonus, and the flavor would come from the slot layout. You could give the combat logi a L/S and the medic an S or S/S setup and boost the speed and hp of the medic up substantially to reinforce the role that they should be running around repping and reviving. If you move forward with this as it is though, you will essentially render the non-Minmatar logi suits obsolete. I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm.
HUZZAH!!!
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They call me Princess Zatata <3
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
10781
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Posted - 2014.07.10 14:59:00 -
[436] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Tesfa Alem wrote:Cat Merc wrote:A small idea I had.
How about increasing light weapon fitting requirements by 35%, and giving Assaults/Commandos a corresponding fitting reduction?
Sidearms become a low CPU/PG option for non slayer suits, Heavies will be less likely to use those with the CPU/PG reduction and Heavy weapon fitting bonuses.
This makes Sidearm vs Light weapon an actual choice, rather than some fun fitting you run once in a while.
Non slayer suits that want the same slaying power would have to do sacrifices, just like non scouts trying to fit cloaks. This is a terrible terrible idea. Logis need to stay alive and in a dust where rail rifles can engage within 80 meters, and HMGs destroy you close range, which should i give up HP or equipment just to be able to shoot back. This would rather encourage me to become a slayer logi. i simply cannot risk my good equipment and suit on 1 side arm, (which would only be either the magsec or smg) so i might as well ditch the equipment and go for kills. Cant we just buff the assaults without destroying the other suits. Then downgrade from a Duvolle to a GEK? Is it really too much to ask for? I was using GEK's for a long time on my Gallente Assault suit ya know. WIth maxed fitting skills. I 'm talking about struggling to scrape ADV weapons onto the suits. PG and cpu is already razor thin. I build my logis around the equipment and HP but thinking along your lines would make me build around the weapon. Ethier an standard or mlt light weapon or SMG with low HP and good equipment or become a better slayer than assaults with a duvolle with survivable suit but crappy equipment.
Great, then you can't have both slayer, tank and equipment power
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
10783
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Posted - 2014.07.10 15:01:00 -
[437] - Quote
Can we got word on exactly what you mean by slot adjustments on assaults?
Will we get (in general) an extra slot? (Matching logi's 8)
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
3918
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Posted - 2014.07.10 15:09:00 -
[438] - Quote
possible rearrangements, not more slots.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
1029
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Posted - 2014.07.10 15:10:00 -
[439] - Quote
Where the hell was this Rattati guy a year ago when the game needed him?
Thank god he's here now.
Munch
Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
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DeathwindRising
ROGUE RELICS
414
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Posted - 2014.07.10 15:16:00 -
[440] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Snake Sellors wrote:I don't understand the heavy cpu/pg reduction. I'm a calsent and I already can't full proto fit my proto suit, why is it being made worse?
PLEASE if you are going with this make sure you include the heavy weapon fitting bonus and make it a good one.
also as you are trying to stop heavies from using light weapons here (i'm assuming) could you at least start looking into some more heavy weapons? at the moment a heavy will only have a choice of two.. its kind of limited. the GA sentinel is the worst offender, it will be based on slots and not the same reduction for all races
why do some suits need fitting mods just to use all their slot but others can fit all complex mods and proto crap and still have fitting left over?
im sick of not having enough cpu on my caldari suits. i thought theyd have the most cpu out of all the suits like in eve... but apparently the minmatar got better tech from some where that gives them the highest base cpu |
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Hawkings Greenback
Red Star.
EoN.
166
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Posted - 2014.07.10 15:18:00 -
[441] - Quote
Poonmunch wrote:Where the hell was this Rattati guy a year ago when the game needed him?
Thank god he's here now.
Munch
Yes indeed, not only that but at least he is listening to the feedback given
GÇ£Their stupidity does not amaze me, its when they're smart that amazes me."
GÇò Frank Zappa
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Poonmunch
Sanguis Defense Syndicate
1029
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Posted - 2014.07.10 15:19:00 -
[442] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Snake Sellors wrote:I don't understand the heavy cpu/pg reduction. I'm a calsent and I already can't full proto fit my proto suit, why is it being made worse?
PLEASE if you are going with this make sure you include the heavy weapon fitting bonus and make it a good one.
also as you are trying to stop heavies from using light weapons here (i'm assuming) could you at least start looking into some more heavy weapons? at the moment a heavy will only have a choice of two.. its kind of limited. the GA sentinel is the worst offender, it will be based on slots and not the same reduction for all races why do some suits need fitting mods just to use all their slot but others can fit all complex mods and proto crap and still have fitting left over? im sick of not having enough cpu on my caldari suits. i thought theyd have the most cpu out of all the suits like in eve... but apparently the minmatar got better tech from some where that gives them the highest base cpu
The Min scout might take issue with your statements.
Munch
Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
10785
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Posted - 2014.07.10 15:21:00 -
[443] - Quote
Can I haz Type II Assault?
I miss chromosome 
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
10785
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Posted - 2014.07.10 15:21:00 -
[444] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:possible rearrangements, not more slots.
Le sigh
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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ZDub 303
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dark Taboo
3092
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 15:23:00 -
[445] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm.
The only point I wanted to get across is to make sure that the roles are defined. Hopefully I don't come across as too hostile, I know I have a tendency to. As long as you're talking about and considering it, and have a clear objective for the role you wish each suit to fulfill, whether or not its what I want, then its good enough for me.
Much respect Rattati o7 |
Al the destroyer
Vengeance Unbound
161
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Posted - 2014.07.10 15:27:00 -
[446] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:possible rearrangements, not more slots.
Please clarify pg of A-logi suit I personally like the idea of removing sidearm for equipment but I am against it if you don't make the pg the same as the other logis
AMERICA! WITHOUT US YOU WOULD HAVE NO ONE TO LOOK UP TO. GET SUM!
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
10785
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 15:29:00 -
[447] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Thang Bausch wrote:* Primary Objective Assault buff, we are looking at a HP increase, slight changes in slot layout and improved PG/CPU, slot based approach. Possibly improve Light Weapon fitting bonus. Possibly a slight speed increase.
Have you considered adding a fitting bonus for damage mods in addition to light weapon fitting bonus, or add a fitting bonus for the sidearm too. The latter would keep differentiation between the commando and assault. Light damage mods is high on my list for Assault efficacy bonuses
O_O
100% efficiency.
Can I haz plz?
Meow?
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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Regis Blackbird
DUST University
Ivy League
327
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Posted - 2014.07.10 15:31:00 -
[448] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:ZDub 303 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:The A-logi is the only one that has this unique layout. Where is the call for a grenade commando, or a sidearm heavy. Being unique is not reason enough, nor is a swarm - sidearm logi a necessity for intricate game balance.
The plan is to make logis better at what they do with good module efficacy bonuses. I'm reposting this from another thread in hopes that either your or Logibro will read it. You guys need to stop and ask yourselves what the role of the Caldari and Amarr logistics is on the field. They both drop passive equipment, and once that is done (literally takes about 1-2s to drop an uplink or nanohive) what is supposed to be their purpose on the battlefield? If you think all logis should then pull out their rep tool and start repairing, then why would anyone run anything but Minmatar Logi? Simply for aesthetics? If a logi suit is supposed to spend the majority of their time repping, then there is almost no reason for any other logi suit to exist than the min logi, because it is specifically bonused for that. The Minmatar and Gallente logi suits are centered around active equipment, that is, equipment you spend most of your time using. The Caldari and Amarr logi suits are centered around passive equipment, which leaves them free to pursue other non logistics tasks like slaying. This also makes sense as both of these passive equipment are meant to be more around the frontline, the Caldari and Amarr Logi need their combat efficacy to protect their passive equipment. You need to think about each suits role on the field and how to better reinforce that idea. Gallente/Minmatar Active Equipment High Mobility Low combat efficiency High Logistics efficiency Amarr/Caldari Passive equipment Low mobility Moderate combat efficiency Low logistics efficiency If you remove the sidearm on Amarr logi and give them a 4th equip slot, they just become a poor copy of the Min/Gal suits. They still have low logistics efficacy because their bonuses are not designed for logistics efficiency. If you serious about type-II versions. Then you need to completely rethink the bonuses so that the high logistics efficiency variant has a bonus to active equipment and the combat efficiency variant has a bonus to passive equipment to better reinforce the role of each suit. You would essentially need to make a set of medic suits centered entirely around the nanite injector and rep tool. While the combat version would be around passive equipment like hives and links. Every suit would have close to the same bonus, and the flavor would come from the slot layout. You could give the combat logi a L/S and the medic an S or S/S setup and boost the speed and hp of the medic up substantially to reinforce the role that they should be running around repping and reviving. If you move forward with this as it is though, you will essentially render the non-Minmatar logi suits obsolete. I am actually considering your proposal of adding a sidearm to Caldari logis, changing one of the high/low slots to sidearm.
This I like  |
Syeven Reed
G0DS AM0NG MEN
753
|
Posted - 2014.07.10 15:32:00 -
[449] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Light damage mods is high on my list for Assault efficacy bonuses
Can we have them moved to low powered slots too?
Twitter MajLagSpike
CPM Application
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Syeven Reed
G0DS AM0NG MEN
753
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Posted - 2014.07.10 15:33:00 -
[450] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Syeven Reed wrote:
Maybe "abuse" is the wrong word but I do agree with them, placing a bed of hives and then swapping out to a heavy brick seems like a misuse of a bad mechanic?
I don't think so. Even the situation you mentioned is easily counterable, flux the spot and spray. And i like having my options so if i see a tanked heavy siting in a nest of hives i can switch out to my mass drive min comando if he's in the open and pummel him from range or sneak behing his stationary butt and R.E. him in my gal scout or rep a friendly heavy as we charge his position in my winmatar logi or take him down my self in a sentinel with flux grendaes. Cant take my cal logi or a gal logi to fight him though. 1 way trip for the amar scout. And if they nerf the A logi sidearms i'll just have to throw my uplinks at him like frisebee buzzsaws 
How do you switch to your mass driver if he has the supply depot?
Twitter MajLagSpike
CPM Application
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