Hi guys,

ItGÇÖs time for some stats! Before you dive in to them let me remind you these are still a work in progress

First off there has been a fair bit of speculation surrounding the upcoming Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle. Speculate no more, for here are their current stats:

[img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/65248/1/riflestats17.jpg[/img]

As a part of their introduction to the game we also plan to rejig the rifle range profiles in line with the weapon type. Rail Rifles are hybrid GÇô railgun tech and are therefore the longest range weapons in the game, followed by laser weapons, projectile weapons and then hybrid GÇô blaster weapons. In the chart below you can see how they stack up Vs one another:

[img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/65234/1/rifleranges17.jpg[/img]

Lastly, as part of the ongoing vehicle work I can confirm we are also making changes to AV. So far weGÇÖve touched the AV Grenades and Swarm Launcher, we do also plan to look at the Forge Gun. These are the current numbers we are testing:

- Reduced AV grenade damage (STD: 1050 -> 725; ADV: 1260 -> 870; PRO: 1470->1015 )
- Reduced swarm launcher damage (330 -> 220)
- Reduced Swarm Launcher lock-on range from 400m to 175m

WeGÇÖre looking forward to hearing your feedback!

CCP Wolfman

Nice. So now advanced and proto tanks can stomp harder. Brilliant move.

And this is ladies and gentleman how you write completely non constructive douche reply.

Dev says it is work in progress, he assumes it is already set in stone. And doesn't think for more than 1min since the thread is posted.

Don't be Jade Dragonis, guys. Just don't.

Hmm proto Rail rifle 42 Rounds, 81 something damage, full auto ? Sounds like the upgrade to a scrambler rifle seizing up at round 23, rail rifle no problem just keep slugging.

Unless the recoil is going to be horrible on that thing?

Nice. So now advanced and proto tanks can stomp harder. Brilliant move.

Just when you think CCP are getting things right.

At least assault is getting more weapons to kill us heavies with.

Lets see if they ruin the forge gun like they ruined the HMG.

Feedback: the font on those charts... The 6s look like 8s.
Also, Combat Rifles look like they don't use much resources, even at prototype.

its 61.6 but yer 100m range,scope and full auto i think we just found the new FOTH

We don't have advanced and proto tanks, soz.

Get ******* good you idiot, Swarms are ezmode, locking onto any vehicle without an issues, with no countermeasures whatsoever.

---

King of the Forums // Vehicle Specialist for Hire
Comment and like this thread about PvE, Here!
Also, check out the Indirect Fire ability, Here!

Its minmatar.

It seems the DPS on the Rail Rifles is about the same at the DPS on Blaster Rifles. I was expecting it to be lower as a tradeoff for its range. Maybe the RRs will kick pretty hard? Or maybe they will have the worst hipfire?

combat rifle: 1200 rounds per minute (SMG-like)

Probably a lower RoF since the breach was its placeholder.

Which brings up a question- what's the scope zoom going to be like on it?

Probably a lower RoF since the breach was its placeholder.

Which brings up a question- what's the scope zoom going to be like on it?

Good to see they nerfed the swarms by 1/3 of it's damage, I was struggling to kill rep tanks and now I dont even need to bother going after them. Rejoice armor tanks, you win.

I know it has a lower ROF, but it dishes out damage just as fast as the AR. About 450 DPS at standard. This worries me. Here's hoping it has some sort of downside to make up for its range.

Lastly, as part of the ongoing vehicle work I can confirm we are also making changes to AV. So far weGÇÖve touched the AV Grenades and Swarm Launcher, we do also plan to look at the Forge Gun. These are the current numbers we are testing:

- Reduced AV grenade damage (STD: 1050 -> 725; ADV: 1260 -> 870; PRO: 1470->1015 )
- Reduced swarm launcher damage (330 -> 220)
- Reduced Swarm Launcher lock-on range from 400m to 175m

WeGÇÖre looking forward to hearing your feedback!

CCP Wolfman

I know it has a lower ROF, but it dishes out damage just as fast as the AR. About 450 DPS at standard. This worries me. Here's hoping it has some sort of downside to make up for its range.

why aren't you getting rid of the burst AR and TAR?

doesn't the rail and combat rifle make them obsolete?
Also weren't they place holders?

Plus now gallente get 4 guns, then ammar gets 2, minmatar gets 2, caldari get 2.

Blasters: Full-auto/Burst/Long range/Breach
Rail guns: Full-auto/Long range
Projectiles: Full-auto/Burst
Lasers: Full-auto/Charge

So you remove burst and Long range variants of the current weapon, and now every rave gets a automatic weapon, and a weapon based on their racial technology.

Also this would open up the breach for a serious buff. Cut the guns range in half, give it a huge damage increase and RoF nerf. It's a blaster, now that we have 4 racial types of the weapon you can balance them more effectively. !

This is somewhat alarming, actually... The Assault Rail Rifle outperforms -EVERYTHING- else in terms of Damage and Range. I don't see any reason to continue using the Assault Rifle when it doesn't even do what it's supposed to anymore: High damage in close quarters combat.

Comparable Level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest DPS:

SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 458.6
GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 446.25
CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 444.7
8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 440

Comparable level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest Optimal Range:

SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 72 meters
CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 55 meters
8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 50 meters
GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 44 meters

Comparable level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest Effective Range:

SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 94 meters
CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 83 meters
8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 77 meters
GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 72 meters

With this in mind ... YES! What this means is that more than likely it'll require a bit of teamwork to take out a well fit vehicle and the act of soloing a tank is going to be a much more difficult endeavor. THIS IS OKAY because Tanks will be in no way as dominant as they were in previous builds of the game because they'll have to keep ammo sufficiently supplied in order to be effective.

This is somewhat alarming, actually... The Assault Rail Rifle outperforms -EVERYTHING- else in terms of Damage and Range. I don't see any reason to continue using the Assault Rifle when it doesn't even do what it's supposed to anymore: High damage in close quarters combat.

Comparable Level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest DPS:

-Stuff

Not everyone is going to train up the other races rifles up.

This is somewhat alarming, actually... The Assault Rail Rifle outperforms -EVERYTHING- else in terms of Damage and Range. I don't see any reason to continue using the Assault Rifle when it doesn't even do what it's supposed to anymore: High damage in close quarters combat.

Comparable Level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest DPS:

SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 458.6
GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 446.25
CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 444.7
8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 440

Comparable level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest Optimal Range:

SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 72 meters
CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 55 meters
8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 50 meters
GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 44 meters

Comparable level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest Effective Range:

SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 94 meters
CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 83 meters
8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 77 meters
GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 72 meters

Not everyone is going to train up the other races rifles up.

ROF stat, what the hell is it? per minute, per second? what exactly? 0.05 seems like a wrong number.

Nice. So now advanced and proto tanks can stomp harder. Brilliant move.

Just when you think CCP are getting things right.

At least assault is getting more weapons to kill us heavies with.

Lets see if they ruin the forge gun like they ruined the HMG.

Nice. So now advanced and proto tanks can stomp harder. Brilliant move.

Just when you think CCP are getting things right.

At least assault is getting more weapons to kill us heavies with.

Lets see if they ruin the forge gun like they ruined the HMG.

Well I was going to wait and see how the rail rifle's rof and .2 second charge up time will balance it out for cqc fights. As of now it does seem like the rail rifle plays like the op breach rifle back in the day.

Feedback: the font on those charts... The 6s look like 8s.
Also, Combat Rifles look like they don't use much resources, even at prototype.

Because they fire bullets rather than energy, laser or rail.

Oh I dunno, the 15 other infantry slaying players on your team seem a good countermeasure to me. Especially seeing as the swarm player is basically defenseless against infantry slayers and can also be insta killed by any vehicle if in range. And lest not forget about all those hills and buildings tankers like to hide behind, nullifying any and all swarms.

Now if every player could dual wield a swarm and their favorite light or heavy weapon, then yeah you might have an argument. But no, that's not the case, you just want tank ez mode and portray yourself as a victim so you get buffed and AV gets nerfed .


Nerfing AV at all in anticipation of the tank changes is the worst possible idea. You guys get invincible mode back, and AV gets nerfed? Even though we currently need proto AV to adequately scare off, and sometimes blow up, well fit STD tanks? lol.

- Reduced Swarm Launcher lock-on range from 400m to 175m

If it takes a team of infantry to take down a tank then of course the tank is dominant. If one player can do something that requires several players on the opposing side to counter it, then that thing provides a decisive numerical advantage.

Rocks-paper-scissors requires that one 'paper' (AV) can beat one 'rock' (tank). If it takes two or three AV to beat one tank, then AV is futile, as you'd be better off just bringing out your own tank. In other words, you don't have rock-paper-scissors but rather tank>infantry.

Oh I dunno, the 15 other infantry slaying players on your team seem a good countermeasure to me. Especially seeing as the swarm player is basically defenseless against infantry slayers and can also be insta killed by any vehicle if in range. And lest not forget about all those hills and buildings tankers like to hide behind, nullifying any and all swarms.

Now if every player could dual wield a swarm and their favorite light or heavy weapon, then yeah you might have an argument. But no, that's not the case, you just want tank ez mode and portray yourself as a victim so you get buffed and AV gets nerfed .


Nerfing AV at all in anticipation of the tank changes is the worst possible idea. You guys get invincible mode back, and AV gets nerfed? Even though we currently need proto AV to adequately scare off, and sometimes blow up, well fit STD tanks? lol.

DS pilots should be wooting at this! Personally I wouldn't change the lock-on range.

I understand that. The SMG also fire bullets, but uses PG. Minmatar weapons use very little to no PG, but have a higher than average CPU usage. For targeting computers and such. The Combat rifle seems to use very little of either, for a comparable performance.

... notably the forge gun hasn't been nerfed.

Makes sense though... The easiest weapons to use shouldn't do the highest damage. As far as skill input is concerned the plasma cannon should do more damage than the Forge Gun.

Not everyone is going to train up the other races rifles up.

Cool, just don't start QQing about it, let it be released first. We don't all our stuff because of too much QQ, balancing before release is ridiculous because its not even in use to properly be looked at. Ssshhhh lol

Stop listening to QQers and make your game CCP.

GL

Take a look at the Plasma Cannon with it's 0.6 charge-up time and you'll change your mind, lol.

0.2 seconds is nothing, the human eye blinks at a speed of 0.4 seconds.

Those numbers dont strike me as particularly odd.

We should stay cautious regarding the DPS stats as we all know the guns behavior is a major factor in how effective a gun is. Also, we dont have the accuracy rating for those new rifles. And we all know how the DPS from the machine gun seems appealing at first..

So yeah. Wait and see.

Those numbers dont strike me as particularly odd.

We should stay cautious regarding the DPS stats as we all know the guns behavior is a major factor in how effective a gun is. Also, we dont have the accuracy rating for those new rifles. And we all know how the DPS from the machine gun seems appealing at first..

So yeah. Wait and see.

That may be so, but let's look at the rail rifle. It has a very long range on it. If it's particularly inaccurate, it's not going to effective at that range. If it's accurate enough to take advantage of that range, it outperforms most other weapons.

That may be so, but let's look at the rail rifle. It has a very long range on it. If it's particularly inaccurate, it's not going to effective at that range. If it's accurate enough to take advantage of that range, it outperforms most other weapons.

So?

It has to be accurate to hit tiny moving targets.

Range = tiny.

My guess is that its hipfire isn't too great, or the aiming speed while ADS suffer greatly. A combination of both seems likely as well.

Yes, so it's likely to be accurate at range. So it's accurate, has a longer range than other rifles, and has more damage than other rifles. Do you see the problem?

dat swarm nerf.


so it will take almost half a minute of continous fire with swarms at max range of 175m against tanks with the announced changes to kill them solo and that is if he does not move into cover...
and dropships are unkillable with that low lock range...


really bad change, considering that swarm can only attack vehicles.

Yes, so it's likely to be accurate at range. So it's accurate, has a longer range than other rifles, and has more damage than other rifles. Do you see the problem?

Woot.

My only concern is the lock range though.

Also for those of you complaining most vehicles potential tank of HAVs were reduced by a similar manner (removal of a module slot can hurt a tank significantly), based on just early theorycrafting lighter vehicles benefit the most from the AV nerf tanks more or less still die the samish or is now threatened by lesser vehicles again. However until I see the newer vehicle numbers I wont be able to play out any scenarios.

Overall from the looks of it the rail rifle range is significant enough that there is lapses where its very superior to the plasma rifle.

This is somewhat alarming, actually... The Assault Rail Rifle outperforms -EVERYTHING- else in terms of Damage and Range. I don't see any reason to continue using the Assault Rifle when it doesn't even do what it's supposed to anymore: High damage in close quarters combat.

Comparable Level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest DPS:

SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 458.6
GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 446.25
CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 444.7
8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 440

Comparable level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest Optimal Range:

SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 72 meters
CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 55 meters
8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 50 meters
GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 44 meters

Comparable level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest Effective Range:

SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 94 meters
CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 83 meters
8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 77 meters
GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 72 meters

Sixes, eights, and nines.


Also, that nerf to swarm launcher range seems a bit absurd.

Or two guys in less than 10 seconds, tanks are not supposed to be easily 1 manned, all that sp and isk invested is supposed to kill people you know, not just look cool.

I hope so. At the moment, the one mitigating factor to this is the very short charge up time before firing.

Ah yes. This post will do fine.

I love how everyone disregarded the charge up time for the new rail rifle...

Ah yes. This post will do fine.

I love how everyone disregarded the charge up time for the new rail rifle...

Yes, so it's likely to be accurate at range. So it's accurate, has a longer range than other rifles, and has more damage than other rifles. Do you see the problem?

Oh I dunno, the 15 other infantry slaying players on your team seem a good countermeasure to me. Especially seeing as the swarm player is basically defenseless against infantry slayers and can also be insta killed by any vehicle if in range. And lest not forget about all those hills and buildings tankers like to hide behind, nullifying any and all swarms.

Now if every player could dual wield a swarm and their favorite light or heavy weapon, then yeah you might have an argument. But no, that's not the case, you just want tank ez mode and portray yourself as a victim so you get buffed and AV gets nerfed .


Nerfing AV at all in anticipation of the tank changes is the worst possible idea. You guys get invincible mode back, and AV gets nerfed? Even though we currently need proto AV to adequately scare off, and sometimes blow up, well fit STD tanks? lol.

They won't be removed, no, but they will be tweaked slightly. The idea being that each race will have it's base variant be Assault, (Gallente) Burst (Minmatar), Breach (Caldari) or Tactical (Amarr) and then the variants are a specific race's take on the others using their own tech. So, you'd get an Assault Rail Rifle that attempts to somewhat mimic the behavior of the Gallente Assault Rifle and a Tactical Assault Rifle that attempts to mimic the Amarr Scrambler Rifle and so on.

In a surprise turn around a corner in close quarters combat, that .2 seconds will be very interesting since user of other rifles will get instant fire ability. These rails on the other hand won't do well if the user gets into a situation where he can be ambushed...

Does a delay of less than two bullet's worth seem like a significant enough balancing factor given that once you're firing you can fire continuously for eight seconds of high DPS at a long range?

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=870299#post870299
CCP Remnant said this about AR variants, and other rifles getting their own other variants (beides just assault variants).

Can anyone in CCP CONFIRM or DENY this is still planned? Will the AR be the only one who gets all the variants?

So AR gets special treatment because it was there first? Remove the extra variants, and just have a respec.
The alternative is to give each race variants of every other race's rifle to be fair like CCP Remnant PROMISED but seemed to forgot and have not mentioned sense.

this is ******** because it creates artificial numbers advantage. 2 guys with AV to kill one tank => one guy less to fight compared to the other team. why not just then bring only tanks into the game, you wont kill the tanks in time because you have limited amount of suits in a match. if you want to change ar514 into tanks514, then go ahead. as long as it takes only 1 guy to run a tank, then it should also take 1 guy to counter it (note I said not to destroy it). half a minute of shooting is not a counter, it is waste of time, after ~20s I simply move away into cover and come back few seconds later. this is not rocket science, all it takes to understand this is common sense.

also isk balance work differently than you think, beside that you get plenty of advantages in a tank for the isk you pay, namely immunity to majority of weapons, ability to destory installations, range, mobility, etc... so all your points are null and void.

and you specifically ignored the dropship and lav argument. how are you going to counter them? dropships are already unkillable to swarms with AB, now they dont need it cause the simply move out of range with regular movement speed.

I'll reserve judgment till I get to play with at least the militia variants but I'm a bit worried about the AV nerfs. Obviously we haven't got the final vehicle stats but if it ends that it need more than two infantry AV users working together to take down a tank, then we have a return of of the invincible tanks of the closed beta and the game is screwed.

Have you even read the dev blog? It shows the different variants for the combat and rail rifle.

Only assault variants. Have you read my post? I SPECIFICALLY said "besides just assault variants".

The base rail rifle is a "breach", slow firing automatic.
Also gets a assault variant.
So rail rifle is missing tactical, and burst.

The base combat rifle is a "burst", fires in 3 round bursts.
Also gets a assault variant.
So rail rifle is missing tactical, and breach.

The base scrambler rifle is a "tactical", fires single fire long range.
Also gets a assault variant.
So rail rifle is missing burst, and breach.

The base assault rifle is a "assault", fires in fast automatic fire.
Also gets a breach variant.
Also gets a burst variant.
Also gets a tactical variant.
So assault rifle is missing NOTHING, and gets EVERYTHING.

If you are that thick as to not take down any vehicle with a squad mate then that's your problem.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=870299#post870299
CCP Remnant said this about AR variants, and other rifles getting their own other variants (beides just assault variants).

Can anyone in CCP CONFIRM or DENY this is still planned? Will the AR be the only one who gets all the variants?

Nerfing AV grenades is all well and good but wouldn't swapping their damage with that of mines make for more tactical anti-vehicle play? An equipment slot item rather than a grenade (no assault based 'nade spam). Plus the ability to set traps in exchange for the ability to just chuck them from behind cover.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=870299#post870299
CCP Remnant said this about AR variants, and other rifles getting their own other variants (beides just assault variants).

Can anyone in CCP CONFIRM or DENY this is still planned? Will the AR be the only one who gets all the variants?

that tunnelvision and lack of basic comprehension of a human you just repeated why it is wrong and still dont get it...

well... at 175 meters you should be able to see the guy shooting swarms at you now.

No your just a noobcake who wants to remain invisible spamming swarms. If tanks costed half as much I'd agree with you but they don't, so I stand by what I say.

I did not see the word promise in that paragraph whatsoever.

and you only continue to make yourself look stupid.

for half the isk you would only get half the tank. as already mentioned, you pay for mobility, high hp, range, immunity ot majority of weapons, etc... you dont get it and as result all your said is still null and void remember that tiny amount of credibility you had? well it went down the toilet several posts ago.

and you only continue to make yourself look stupid.

for half the isk you would only get half the tank. as already mentioned, you pay for mobility, high hp, range, immunity ot majority of weapons, etc... you dont get it and as result all your said is still null and void remember that tiny amount of credibility you had? well it went down the toilet several posts ago.

A promise is defined as a declaration of assurance, a claim of what will happen, to give good ground for expectation; I'd say a dev post saying something will happen is plenty good grounds to expect it. The word "promise" itself is not required for something to be a promise.
Why are you always doing this anyway? whenever someone tries to hold CCP to their word you have to swoop in and find loop holes.
I remember when you even claimed weapons, vehicle, and dropsuit racial variants were NEVER promised within 1 yr from Fanfest despite you yourself having been there. I had to link you the talk (Advancing the core) where they said they'll be out within 6 to 12 months of the time of that Fanfest. Speaking of which, I'm actually hopeful and optimistic that they will be able to keep that promise.

No, you just don't like that I disagree with you. Also assuming I'm stupid based on an altercation in a game demonstrates your intellect.

This is somewhat alarming, actually... The Assault Rail Rifle outperforms -EVERYTHING- else in terms of Damage and Range. I don't see any reason to continue using the Assault Rifle when it doesn't even do what it's supposed to anymore: High damage in close quarters combat

The guy who made that promise is no longer with CCP.

Did not know that, thanks for telling me.

Does that mean its no longer planned? I would really love a confirmation or at least a denial. The plan made a lot of sense.

The guy who made that promise is no longer with CCP.

And sadly still no change to the assault forge. I'm retiring from dropships.

I would not say that spreading around nonsense is disagreeing. nonsense is simply nonsense I and am glad that you are not responsible for the game.

and I bet you will be one of the first people crying about tanks

I would not say that spreading around nonsense is disagreeing. nonsense is simply nonsense I and am glad that you are not responsible for the game.

and I bet you will be one of the first people crying about tanks

If Remnant is gone, who's in charge of dropsuits?

Except this won't be the case. I have to emphasize the following here :

HP, Burst Tanking, and Decreased Effectiveness of Infantry Slaying Turrets
1. Tanks have lower HP than they did before
2. There's far more reliance on active modules in order to "tank" any sort of significant damage
3. Finite Ammo means Tanks have to take their focus away from infantry slaying at multiple points in order to resupply

AV will still be fulfilling its role by creating areas where the Tank can't effectively pass without taking significant damage, you don't need to kill the Tank in order to ensure that its effectiveness in the match is decreased.

So tanker role=massacring everything in sight. AV role=temporary inconvenience to the metal killing machine. Yep, that sounds balanced

swarm nerf seems to be right in order. Vehicles get alot of fitting limitations and the swarms will stay UNTOUCHED until those vehicle changes are beeing implemented. You have to keep in mind what vehicle users loose or get nerfed at:

-vehicle armor reps 100% passive. No overpowered armor reps which gives them godmode.
-shield boosters nerfed because of the buffed passive recharge and the module cooldown is longer. And if the tank gets hit by AV the shields stop recharging.
-no passive resistance anymore
-gunnlogi looses 2 high slots
-madrugar looses 2 low slots
-shield extenders/armor plates nerfed HARD and give less HP then before.

current proto swarms take down current ARMOR tanks in ~12-15s

with announced nerfed proto swarms it will take ~23s to 30s of shooting to take down announced ARMOR tank

and this is assuming an unrealistic combat scenario, in reality it takes longer.

current proto swarms take down current ARMOR tanks in ~12-15s

with announced nerfed proto swarms it will take ~23s to 30s of shooting to take down announced ARMOR tank

and this is assuming an unrealistic combat scenario, in reality it takes longer.

What game are you playing, me and a squad mate destroy any tank in about 5 seconds, or are you stating from a swarm only view minus tactics and av grenades.

current proto swarms take down current ARMOR tanks in ~12-15s

with announced nerfed proto swarms it will take ~23s to 30s of shooting to take down announced ARMOR tank

and this is assuming an unrealistic combat scenario, in reality it takes longer.

wow you are a hero because you can take down low sp tank driven by noobs with no support with proto weapons fast... congratulations for another pointless post.

So tanker role=massacring everything in sight. AV role=temporary inconvenience to the metal killing machine. Yep, that sounds balanced

I'm glad we're in agreement, AV can no longer easy mode a tank with 2 AV grenades and a clip of swarms and we're less effective overall at killing you.

And isnt the damage nerf 110 less per swarm? so marginal when twio people are taking out a tank, then add av nades and the fact Maddy's will have the same slots as somas, is it not easy enough already?

So you are incapable of debate, OK I get the picture now, no these are high end tanks, seriously you can't even debate or answer questions from someone who disagrees with you, just be quiet.

I know right, as if the fact the guns aren't even out yet doesn't make the QQ pointless enough already, its bad QQ set in open flat plains.

wow you are a hero because you can take down low sp tank driven by bad driver with no support with proto weapons fast... congratulations for another pointless post.

you win the price for the most pointless posts done in a day.

no sane tank driver rushes his tank into a position where he can get mauled by several people with AV nades + AV weaponry.

and this is your problem, all your posts indicate that you are one of those scrubs that do not know how to drive a tank and then whine that they get killed by several people at once.


you just dont know how to use a tank and all your posts are filled with misinformation. there is nothing to debate.

I just checked your in game stats, your a complete noob, no wonder you disagree with me, I thought you was a dust uni teacher , seriously less than 3000 kills, just be quiet seriously, you don't even have enough experience to know what your on about. I should have known.

no sane tank driver rushes his tank into a position where he can get mauled by several people with AV nades + AV weaponry. this is basic tank driving knowledge.

and this is your problem, all your posts indicate that you are one of those scrubs that do not know how to drive a tank and then whine that they get killed by several people at once.


you just dont know how to use a tank and all your posts are filled with misinformation. there is nothing to debate when your you put your head into your arse and suffer from tunnelvision

by attempting to make me look dumb,.

Proto swarms:
220Hp damage per missile X6= 1320HP damage per volley. That 3 times in a row is 3960HP damage without damage bonus against armor or damage mods nor proficency. and against armor a volley does still 1716HP damage. A full clip does 5148HP damage. And thats from a single swarmer alone on like 5-6 secs. And how much HP does your armor tank can get with just 3 low slots and the new modules?

looks like I was right, you are a CoD kid basing his opinions around kills, so your arguments are truly null and void. now the picture is complete.

and your assumption is wrong, I have more dust experience than you, I am here since the beginning of closed beta with several characters able to use proto gear. I am just not a no life CoD kid like you

and btw, I can assure you, the same same situation will happen that we had in close beta. I can safely assume FG will get a nerf too and sooner or later people will start to cry about tanks infesting FW and the amount of effort to take one down. there will again be alot of rage and again tanks will get nerfed and we return to status quo. I am calling it now.

you did that by yourself, mister CoD kid.

So anyone who disagrees with you is a cod kid? Well I'm sorry I don't type my posts Like a business proposal or excessively put stupid faces to try and validate my point.

No I hate cod with a passion and I'm 26, stats reflect performance so I base vpkayer ability by that, anyway you just keep tip toeing around everything I say and assume asbsolute rubbish.

So anyone who disagrees with you is a cod kid? Well I'm sorry I don't type my posts Like a business proposal or excessively put stupid faces to try and validate my point.

No I hate cod with a passion and I'm 26, stats reflect performance so I base vpkayer ability by that, anyway you just keep tip toeing around everything I say and assume asbsolute rubbish.

ROF is in time interval between shots. 60 divided by the decimal will give the rounds per minute.

(...) http://imageshack.us/a/img102/1651/2dqvndecw6in8.gif

all your posts just indicate that you are butthurt cause you cant solo squads with your tanks.

and the fact that you base your opinion around kills made it apparent that I was right and that you fall under the category of a CoD kid that wants to run around killing everyone alone. this is not going to happen, welcome to new eden.

in short, what you do is not disagreeing but simply talking nonsense, we already covered that several posts ago. why do you repeat the same nonsense again? atleast be creative and post new one

I roll up to any tank and let of a volley of swarms then 3 hacked av nades followed by a last volley as they try to run

Why they don't just write 1200 for CR and 460 for RR????

Your calculation is off, it ignores the initial layer of shield reducing damage and doesnt account for the lowered clip sizes of swarms which reduces its overall damage
I also have to ask when was the last time you died from a militia swarm launcher? Because thats what these new ones will be at a PROTO level
2 shot clips like the militia and the exact same damage but only if all 6 missiles hit

all your posts just indicate that you are butthurt cause you cant solo squads with your tanks.

people even showed you how the changes will effect the gameplay doing calculations and your still in denial and the fact that you base your opinion around kills made it apparent that I was right and that you fall under the category of a CoD kid that wants to run around killing everyone alone. this is not going to happen, welcome to new eden.

in short, what you do is not disagreeing but simply talking about stuff that does not belong to dust, we already covered that several posts ago. why do you repeat the same nonsense again? atleast be creative and post new one

And what calculations where? From what if seen in dust the calculations don't account for random human behaviour and situational changes, they just account for static engagements that don't take a lot of factors of actual gameplay into account.

as everyone can see you still dont get it and you now just posted something against yourself without knowing it. that is what happens when you suffer from tunnelvision syndrome.

ok, because I am nice I will repeat it for you: announced changes show that it will take 23-30 seconds (depending on amount of damage mods) in an unrealistic combat scenario. that means in a real combat scenario it will most likely take half a minute or more of shooting to take down a tank with stacked dmg mods.

No I just didn't see that but thanks, you attitude is so rotten you have to be trolling.

as everyone can see you still dont get it and you now just posted something against yourself without knowing it. that is what happens when you suffer from tunnelvision syndrome.

ok, because I am nice I will repeat it for you: it will take ~23-30 seconds with a solo nerfed swarms to take out an armor tank with the announced changes (time depending on amount of damage mods) in an unrealistic combat scenario. that means in a real combat scenario it will most likely take half a minute or more of shooting to take down a tank with stacked dmg mods.

you dont see it or you do not want to see it?

the numbers are posted on page 7. look it up and deal with it.

How old are you? Because that is some seriously juvenile idiocy right there lol.

And can I have an actual link for that please rather than just taking your word for it, if there's solid proof I'll admit iv behaved like a ignorant **** but I've seen nothing ng that states this, just that Maddy s will have the slot layout of a soma.

wow your denial is just too obvious.

it was stated 3 times just on the last page where you find it.
for the 4th time, the numbers and explanation is presented on page 7.

Yeah I just read it, I'm going to ignore you now because you appear to be either thick as sht or trolling, goodbye lol.

That calculator is based off of a guy just stood still shooting x av weapon at a tank also stood still, it does not and cannot take into account the random variables of gameplay, what a waste of time.

basically you are saying it takes longer than the math shows in which case you made yourself look stupid again because you just busted yourself.