Just gonna pop in here with some comparavtive stats for the weapon changes vs the proposed madruger stats.

Mads are assumed fit with armor hardner and one each of the 60 and 120 complex plates

Noskills:
Current Swarm Unfit Mad: 11.24 seconds 3.51 shots used
New Swarm Unfit Mad: 16.87 seconds 5.27 shots used
Current Swarm Fit Mad: 21.7 seconds and 6.78 shots used
New Swarms Fit Mad: 32.58 seconds 10.18 shots used

Full skiils and weapon dmg mods:
Current Swarm Unfit Mad: 4.11 seconds 2.41 shots
New Swarms Unfit Mad: 11.6 seconds and 3.62 shots
Current Swarms Fit Mad: 14.9 seconds 4.6 shots
New Swarms Fit Mad: 22.4 seconds 7 shots

if you wish to check for yourself try here www.dust514stats.com/compare.cfm it's a work in progress but it works.

Can we get a projectile speed buff on Swarm Launchers?
HAVs outrunning Swarm missiles, regularly, is getting a bit ridiculous.

I'm sorry you feel that my formulations fail to be perfect. if you have an idea how I can include reps I'm all ears, doing so in a hard code enviroment while I figure out javascript is rather difficult. I have not added other mods, like weapon mods, or scanners because they are not defensive and thus outside the calculation. the base line of no fitting and no skills for both weapon and tank are valid data, yes they can change because you kill the shooter, or move, or he can't get a solid lock, but that is the shortest amount of time it will ever take anyone to kill you by themselves.

So While I never claimed this was perfect data, because no one can simulate a battle without having one, nor simulate all possible battles I do give a best and worest case and it is a slight bit better than anything else I have seen. Sorry I'm not perfect.

you want me to calculate in real time damage done by 1 of 27 weapons against a variety of vehicles with a bunch of fitting options, and skills with a pen and paper? or maybe you don't understand how these things work?

Also stacking penalties do not apply to repair systems, plates or shield extenders. and we currently do not know if you can stack the armor or shield resistance modules.

Nerfed Swarm launcher damage by 1/3 and range by more than half. Moronic.

-1

But tanks don't need to right?

If there was any viable light-weapon AV alternative to the swarm launcher, then I wouldn't mind as much, but there isn't.

And it still only takes one person to drive a tank plus they can kill you from any distance you can kill him (assuming they're using a railgun). Why should it take an entire squad working together to kill them? I've always been a proponent of lowering ISK costs for vehicles and vehicle modules/weapons, because balancing based on ISK is stupid.

A shell has travel time? It's close enough to instantaneous to be so. And if you want to talk about travel time, maybe we can talk about how long it takes swarms to get to your tank from 400m out.

The splash damage is still damage. The FG debate is another one entirely.

If you're fine with ignoring low amount sof splash damage, then swarms require a direct hit too.

Then hide near or behind a rock, structure or box of crates. The missiles are stupid and half will be destroyed while trying to turn a corner.

A tank still only takes one guy. Thinking it should take any more than one person to kill it is "lolstupid"

Of course they can. But if these changes go through, then they'll have to. Tankers don't have to use teamwork to get kills.

I should have known Spkr was your friend. I guess that's why you can't stop riding RND's d.ick whenever one of us posts something.

But LAVs are buffed.

Meaning new vehicles can not overtank old versions?

Not a fan of the proposed changes to the AV grenades. It's the most difficult AV weapon to use because it requires you to be essentially face to face with a tank. More risk should equal better reward, ie more damage.

Loltalking about crutches when he sits in a vehicle that is practically immune to all but three weapons and self heals

wtf tank shuld b godmoed

I look forward to seeing your continued tears after AV is nerfed and you still get dominated.

Former WikiHaHa clipsize = 5
Current WikiHaHa clipsize = 3

^ Penalty?

Looks like I'm late to this party....as usual.

Anyway please CCP..consider this.....the health of logi lavs and HAVs. How could you put the hammer on AV nades and SL lock on distance? A LAV will be able to simply drive out of range before we will be able to lock on it. Even if we get one shot on it...logi lavs will eat that proto swarm launcher and keep it moving. Packed AV nades were a joke against lavs (especially logi lavs)...now you're making the proto av nade weaker than a current packed AV nade?? Where is the sense in that? I need you guys to play this game when you guys are considering nerfing things.

Have you guys played this game where a tank just sits on a hill (that you guys allow because of the design of these maps) and rails down on objectives? How will we be able to scare him off of the redline now? Now, you're making it so only heavies can attack vehicles...but what if there aren't any in the game? We will just have to die aimlessly then, huh?

I'd rather you give the tanks more health or more effective modules for survivability then to remove our only ways to defend ourselves. I mean, seriously.....proto AV nades 1000hp??? What will that do for tanks and lavs with armor and shield resistance? Some logi lavs still had shields after 3 Lai Dai Packed nades hit them....how will we defend ourselves against them now?

This is the only game where you have to go AV OR Assault. AV nades are going to be a joke against a good tank now and SLs just the same. But for assault class, the SL is our best defense and we can't even use a SL with our primary weapon....which leaves us vulnerable to infantry. It will require 3 or 4 assaults at the same time to take a tank out...and now, all the tanks have to do is run a few meters.

This is another bad idea, CCP...horrible, in fact. You guys don't ever compromise...it is always one extreme or the other. And that is terrible practice as far as balancing a game is concerned.