DUST Search - Announcement:Weapon stats!

Heinz Doofenshertz wrote:

Takahiro Kashuken wrote:

Heinz Doofenshertz wrote:

Just gonna pop in here with some comparavtive stats for the weapon changes vs the proposed madruger stats.

Mads are assumed fit with armor hardner and one each of the 60 and 120 complex plates

Noskills:
Current Swarm Unfit Mad: 11.24 seconds 3.51 shots used
New Swarm Unfit Mad: 16.87 seconds 5.27 shots used
Current Swarm Fit Mad: 21.7 seconds and 6.78 shots used
New Swarms Fit Mad: 32.58 seconds 10.18 shots used

Full skiils and weapon dmg mods:
Current Swarm Unfit Mad: 4.11 seconds 2.41 shots
New Swarms Unfit Mad: 11.6 seconds and 3.62 shots
Current Swarms Fit Mad: 14.9 seconds 4.6 shots
New Swarms Fit Mad: 22.4 seconds 7 shots

if you wish to check for yourself try here www.dust514stats.com/compare.cfm it's a work in progress but it works.

No it doesnt work

Its mislead stats wise and doesnt account for situations let alone it doesnt contain all the mods to fit up the tank the way you want it too it just has the plates and hardners no reppers and no extra mods

I'm sorry you feel that my formulations fail to be perfect. if you have an idea how I can include reps I'm all ears, doing so in a hard code enviroment while I figure out javascript is rather difficult. I have not added other mods, like weapon mods, or scanners because they are not defensive and thus outside the calculation. the base line of no fitting and no skills for both weapon and tank are valid data, yes they can change because you kill the shooter, or move, or he can't get a solid lock, but that is the shortest amount of time it will ever take anyone to kill you by themselves.

So While I never claimed this was perfect data, because no one can simulate a battle without having one, nor simulate all possible battles I do give a best and worest case and it is a slight bit better than anything else I have seen. Sorry I'm not perfect.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
KGB Sleep Ikomari-Onu Enforcement Caldari State 347	Posted - 2013.10.25 14:38:00 - [271] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: One thing you guys should be aware of is that the Rail Rifle (all variants) have a 0.2 second charge time before they start firing at full auto (so it goes charge -> fire -> fire, not charge -> fire -> charge -> fire) So does that mean no tapping? It will fire like a slow HMG? Get rid of the charge up to fire mechanic. This is the future and look at all the gimped weapons. You guys always damage and penalize the player for using weapons in a game where you have to shoot people. "let's make it charge up! let's make it blow up!" Jesus how many uninstalls will it take to understand that gimping weapons is unrealistic and not fun. "Yeah I almost killed that guy but then my gun blew up in my face." "I feel you bro I could have helped you but I had to plug my gun into the wall and charge it." No more overheats or feedback either. In the future there would be a safety mechanism to prevent damage to a soldier / customer. They wouldn't sell people weapons that would take their hand off for pulling the trigger too many times now would they? No, they wouldn't because the Interstellar Better Business Bureau would laser their nuts off.
Nightbird Aeon Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 339	Posted - 2013.10.25 14:38:00 - [272] - Quote IgniteableAura wrote: Nightbird Aeon wrote: This is going to get lost here on the 13th page, but whatever: Don't change two stats at once. You have no idea which stat change had the desired impact. Keep everything constant, and change only one stat. So, for swarms... either change the range and keep damage, or drop damage and keep range. Or, even better: Two swarm variants: One with current damage and shorter range One with reduced damage and current range That way you can play test both stat changes, and KNOW which stat change had the desired effect. Its like basic science, only change one variable at a time. I know, right? I remember when they nerfed the TAC... they changed damage, RoF and hipfire spread all at the same time. What was wrong with simply enforcing the hard cap on RoF... then seeing what happened???
FATPrincess - XOXO Shining Flame Amarr Empire 589	Posted - 2013.10.25 14:40:00 - [273] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: One thing you guys should be aware of is that the Rail Rifle (all variants) have a 0.2 second charge time before they start firing at full auto (so it goes charge -> fire -> fire, not charge -> fire -> charge -> fire) That doesn't sound very reassuring, honestly. I'm a Forge Gun user, and it's really easy to maneuver your charge time around cover. This just means that the Rail Rifle get's to slightly delay popping out from cover before dealing more DPS than the current AR at a significantly longer range. ED: From the math I'm punching based on the tables, the Rail Rifle is basically a Chromosome Assault Rifle with slightly higher DPS. 10 second charge time seems balanced. -XOXO
Humble Seeker PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 22	Posted - 2013.10.25 14:45:00 - [274] - Quote These new weapons should add some interesting new flavors of combat. I see our Caldari allies pummeling enemies from atop a hill 70+ meters away, owning open fields. And the Minmatar fans rushing around with those medium-range crude rifles. Oh the challenge. Oh the change! Now for that heavy laser.
Vrain Matari ZionTCD Public Disorder. 1141	Posted - 2013.10.25 14:45:00 - [275] - Quote RydogV wrote: How about a petition to change the name of the current "Assault Rifle" to "Blaster Rifle"? It seems more fitting to the tech and less confusing since all of these weapons are technically part of the Assault Rifle class. ~All In Favor~ Aye.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1745	Posted - 2013.10.25 14:51:00 - [276] - Quote KGB Sleep wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: One thing you guys should be aware of is that the Rail Rifle (all variants) have a 0.2 second charge time before they start firing at full auto (so it goes charge -> fire -> fire, not charge -> fire -> charge -> fire) So does that mean no tapping? It will fire like a slow HMG? Get rid of the charge up to fire mechanic. This is the future and look at all the gimped weapons. You guys always damage and penalize the player for using weapons in a game where you have to shoot people. "let's make it charge up! let's make it blow up!" Jesus how many uninstalls will it take to understand that gimping weapons is unrealistic and not fun. "Yeah I almost killed that guy but then my gun blew up in my face." "I feel you bro I could have helped you but I had to plug my gun into the wall and charge it." No more overheats or feedback either. In the future there would be a safety mechanism to prevent damage to a soldier / customer. They wouldn't sell people weapons that would take their hand off for pulling the trigger too many times now would they? No, they wouldn't because the Interstellar Better Business Bureau would laser their nuts off. You are suggesting all guns should work the same? No. Everything has its style differences. What this also means is that you can use your knowledge of how the gun works to mitigate its damage. If you are behind cover and suppressed by one, you can play with its charge delay forcing it to waste ammo trying to guess when you will pop out.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3483	Posted - 2013.10.25 14:54:00 - [277] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: One thing you guys should be aware of is that the Rail Rifle (all variants) have a 0.2 second charge time before they start firing at full auto (so it goes charge -> fire -> fire, not charge -> fire -> charge -> fire) Was afraid of that...
Forlorn Destrier Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2159	Posted - 2013.10.25 14:54:00 - [278] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: crazy space 1 wrote: why aren't you getting rid of the burst AR and TAR? doesn't the rail and combat rifle make them obsolete? Also weren't they place holders? Plus now gallente get 4 guns, then ammar gets 2, minmatar gets 2, caldari get 2. Blasters: Full-auto/Burst/Long range/Breach Rail guns: Full-auto/Long range Projectiles: Full-auto/Burst Lasers: Full-auto/Charge So you remove burst and Long range variants of the current weapon, and now every rave gets a automatic weapon, and a weapon based on their racial technology. Also this would open up the breach for a serious buff. Cut the guns range in half, give it a huge damage increase and RoF nerf. It's a blaster, now that we have 4 racial types of the weapon you can balance them more effectively. ! Not everyone is going to train up the other races rifles up. Not a valid argument - just look at ships or weapons in Eve - crazy's proposal is along the same line as that. I see nothing wrong with crazy's idea in terms of "all SP spent should unlock the same type of gameplay" because that means what is the point of the racial variants of weapons?
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3483	Posted - 2013.10.25 14:59:00 - [279] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: One thing you guys should be aware of is that the Rail Rifle (all variants) have a 0.2 second charge time before they start firing at full auto (so it goes charge -> fire -> fire, not charge -> fire -> charge -> fire) That doesn't sound very reassuring, honestly. I'm a Forge Gun user, and it's really easy to maneuver your charge time around cover. This just means that the Rail Rifle get's to slightly delay popping out from cover before dealing more DPS than the current AR at a significantly longer range. ED: From the math I'm punching based on the tables, the Rail Rifle is basically a Chromosome Assault Rifle with slightly higher DPS. That 0.2 second charge time is so miniscule it's not going to matter at all. Plasma Cannon has 0.6 but that doesn't stop it from landing kills on infantry, even with the flight time. Now we have this direct fire weapon with an optimal range of 70+ meters that does more DPS than the weapon that's SUPPOSED to have the highest (Assault Rifle). Rail Rifle operates like a Breach Assault Rifle with a Complex Damage Mod, higher RoF and MUCH longer range. That being said, I tried it out this morning and went 34/3 and that's using hip-fire primarily, out-strafing my targets. It's going to be god-mode for people that have half-decent aim. But, you know, I'll reserve my thoughts until I see it in action but I would LOVE to see a video of it's usage before it goes live so we can at least point at it and say "It's ******* OP, fix it" before it starts some three month long Flavor of the Season
RydogV Shadow Company HQ 513	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:05:00 - [280] - Quote I was hoping the Combat Rifle would have a burst variant that had Iron Sights, just to mix things up a bit. I like the burst firing action but I really am not a fan of the scopes. Maybe the CR scopes will be different, but I would still like to see iron sight burst. Think about it

Buzzwords Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 500	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:11:00 - [281] - Quote i get that the incoming vehicle changes are also expected to be a nerf, so i GUESS i'm willing to see how these AV dmg nerfs shake out, but i do have one critique. how do you kill a dropship if it just decides to hover really high up now? a forge cannot hit reliably at that kind of distance, and now the swarm cannot lock onto it. are we doomed to endure an endless rain of missile fire and enemy infantry literally falling out of the sky? all i can think of is a railgun, which cannot pan up so...
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 433	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:21:00 - [282] - Quote RydogV wrote: I was hoping the Combat Rifle would have a burst variant that had Iron Sights, just to mix things up a bit. I like the burst firing action but I really am not a fan of the scopes. Maybe the CR scopes will be different, but I would still like to see iron sight burst. Think about it Just burst fire it though, it has the same ROF or did you want even more ROF
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 1745	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:22:00 - [283] - Quote On AV Nerfs: Alarming but likely necessary should the formerly proposed vehicle changes be implemented. Proto swarms were effective vs HAVs but largely useless vs Dropships. Not sure why Swarms were smashed and Forge Guns left alone. On Rifles: Will range-optimized rifles devastate in close quarters (i.e. former TacAR)? Did the vanilla AR dodge a balance pass? Any specific improvements in the works for specialty weapons Laser Rifles and Shotguns?
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 851	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:25:00 - [284] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: Rail Rifle operates like a Breach Assault Rifle with a Complex Damage Mod, higher RoF and MUCH longer range. I'm just gonna put this here: Rail Rifle should equal SMG DPS (383) at excellent 70-100m range. Combat Rifle should be sub-AR DPS (400) at good 50-70m range. AR should remain exactly as it is: 425DPS with 40m range. I think we're going to end up in a long-term nerf cycle until the game gets stats roughly like this. Hell, according to the chart, the Full-auto Combat Rifle has higher DPS (440!) than the blaster-based AR. That just ain't right.
Heinz Doofenshertz BetaMax. 542	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:27:00 - [285] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Heinz Doofenshertz wrote: Just gonna pop in here with some comparavtive stats for the weapon changes vs the proposed madruger stats. Mads are assumed fit with armor hardner and one each of the 60 and 120 complex plates Noskills: Current Swarm Unfit Mad: 11.24 seconds 3.51 shots used New Swarm Unfit Mad: 16.87 seconds 5.27 shots used Current Swarm Fit Mad: 21.7 seconds and 6.78 shots used New Swarms Fit Mad: 32.58 seconds 10.18 shots used Full skiils and weapon dmg mods: Current Swarm Unfit Mad: 4.11 seconds 2.41 shots New Swarms Unfit Mad: 11.6 seconds and 3.62 shots Current Swarms Fit Mad: 14.9 seconds 4.6 shots New Swarms Fit Mad: 22.4 seconds 7 shots if you wish to check for yourself try here www.dust514stats.com/compare.cfm it's a work in progress but it works. No it doesnt work Its mislead stats wise and doesnt account for situations let alone it doesnt contain all the mods to fit up the tank the way you want it too it just has the plates and hardners no reppers and no extra mods I'm sorry you feel that my formulations fail to be perfect. if you have an idea how I can include reps I'm all ears, doing so in a hard code enviroment while I figure out javascript is rather difficult. I have not added other mods, like weapon mods, or scanners because they are not defensive and thus outside the calculation. the base line of no fitting and no skills for both weapon and tank are valid data, yes they can change because you kill the shooter, or move, or he can't get a solid lock, but that is the shortest amount of time it will ever take anyone to kill you by themselves. So While I never claimed this was perfect data, because no one can simulate a battle without having one, nor simulate all possible battles I do give a best and worest case and it is a slight bit better than anything else I have seen. Sorry I'm not perfect.
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 1745	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:30:00 - [286] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: (1) Rail Rifle should equal SMG DPS (383) at excellent 70-100m range. (2) AR should remain exactly as it is: 425DPS with 40m range. (1) Looks beastly at range. How would you see it limited up-close? (2) Devastating at range. Devastating up-close. A Jack or Master of all Trades?
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1509	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:31:00 - [287] - Quote Heinz Doofenshertz wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Heinz Doofenshertz wrote: Just gonna pop in here with some comparavtive stats for the weapon changes vs the proposed madruger stats. Mads are assumed fit with armor hardner and one each of the 60 and 120 complex plates Noskills: Current Swarm Unfit Mad: 11.24 seconds 3.51 shots used New Swarm Unfit Mad: 16.87 seconds 5.27 shots used Current Swarm Fit Mad: 21.7 seconds and 6.78 shots used New Swarms Fit Mad: 32.58 seconds 10.18 shots used Full skiils and weapon dmg mods: Current Swarm Unfit Mad: 4.11 seconds 2.41 shots New Swarms Unfit Mad: 11.6 seconds and 3.62 shots Current Swarms Fit Mad: 14.9 seconds 4.6 shots New Swarms Fit Mad: 22.4 seconds 7 shots if you wish to check for yourself try here www.dust514stats.com/compare.cfm it's a work in progress but it works. No it doesnt work Its mislead stats wise and doesnt account for situations let alone it doesnt contain all the mods to fit up the tank the way you want it too it just has the plates and hardners no reppers and no extra mods I'm sorry you feel that my formulations fail to be perfect. if you have an idea how I can include reps I'm all ears, doing so in a hard code enviroment while I figure out javascript is rather difficult. I have not added other mods, like weapon mods, or scanners because they are not defensive and thus outside the calculation. the base line of no fitting and no skills for both weapon and tank are valid data, yes they can change because you kill the shooter, or move, or he can't get a solid lock, but that is the shortest amount of time it will ever take anyone to kill you by themselves. So While I never claimed this was perfect data, because no one can simulate a battle without having one, nor simulate all possible battles I do give a best and worest case and it is a slight bit better than anything else I have seen. Sorry I'm not perfect. Use a calculator and pen and paper Its what i do, all you need to know is stacking penalties and the skills and bonuses
Terram Nenokal Namtar Elite Gallente Federation 219	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:32:00 - [288] - Quote Does the rail rifle count as a hybrid weapon? Gallente Assaults want to know.
Heinz Doofenshertz BetaMax. 542	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:35:00 - [289] - Quote you want me to calculate in real time damage done by 1 of 27 weapons against a variety of vehicles with a bunch of fitting options, and skills with a pen and paper? or maybe you don't understand how these things work? Also stacking penalties do not apply to repair systems, plates or shield extenders. and we currently do not know if you can stack the armor or shield resistance modules.
Heinz Doofenshertz BetaMax. 542	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:36:00 - [290] - Quote Terram Nenokal wrote: Does the rail rifle count as a hybrid weapon? Gallente Assaults want to know. all of the weapons are listed in their damage types here http://dust514.com/news/blog/2013/07/weapon-ranges-in-uprising-1.2-and-beyond/

dent 308 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 1913	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:37:00 - [291] - Quote Heinz Doofenshertz wrote: you want me to calculate in real time damage done by 1 of 27 weapons against a variety of vehicles with a bunch of fitting options, and skills with a pen and paper? or maybe you don't understand how these things work? Also stacking penalties do not apply to repair systems, plates or shield extenders. and we currently do not know if you can stack the armor or shield resistance modules. With an average approximation of player skills that effect the damage output as well. You will be timed, go.
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 73	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:41:00 - [292] - Quote if i hold down R1 when using the rail rifle is it going to do this Charge pew pew pew pew pew or Charge pew Charge pew Charge pew
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1509	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:42:00 - [293] - Quote Heinz Doofenshertz wrote: you want me to calculate in real time damage done by 1 of 27 weapons against a variety of vehicles with a bunch of fitting options, and skills with a pen and paper? or maybe you don't understand how these things work? Also stacking penalties do not apply to repair systems, plates or shield extenders. and we currently do not know if you can stack the armor or shield resistance modules. If you cant do it right put a disclaimer in that the numbers are wrong or whatever that something like x isnt calculated with y But dont try and say its fact when it isnt and its wrong, its just lying
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 851	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:42:00 - [294] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: Disturbingly Bored wrote: (1) Rail Rifle should equal SMG DPS (383) at excellent 70-100m range. (2) AR should remain exactly as it is: 425DPS with 40m range. (1) Looks beastly at range. How would you see it limited up-close? (2) Devastating at range. Devastating up-close. A Jack or Master of all Trades? If you think 383 is beastly at range, you're going to have a field day with the rail rifle as proposed. It's set to do 430 DPS at 70-100km, which is more DPS than the current AR.
RydogV Shadow Company HQ 519	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:43:00 - [295] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: RydogV wrote: I was hoping the Combat Rifle would have a burst variant that had Iron Sights, just to mix things up a bit. I like the burst firing action but I really am not a fan of the scopes. Maybe the CR scopes will be different, but I would still like to see iron sight burst. Think about it Just burst fire it though, it has the same ROF or did you want even more ROF No I am not asking for any ROF increase. That can stay the same. Just looking for a version of the Burst variant without any optics. I really like the burst action in assault class weapons but the I am not a fan of scopes. The Combat Rifle seems appealing with a bit higher damage than the Gallente Burst Rifle but would prefer no optics. The full-auto crowd gets a scoped version of their preferred action with the Rail Rifle. Just looking for a little Burst love
Baltazar Pontain Phantom Universe Task Force Orion Empire 19	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:43:00 - [296] - Quote 175m for swarm lock on range? Okay I can throw it on tanks... Seriously, why do you overreact from 400m to 175m? I mean it takes my Light weapon slot. I want a dislike button ^^
Cenex Langly D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 271	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:44:00 - [297] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Lastly, as part of the ongoing vehicle work I can confirm we are also making changes to AV. So far weGÇÖve touched the AV Grenades and Swarm Launcher, we do also plan to look at the Forge Gun. These are the current numbers we are testing: - Reduced AV grenade damage (STD: 1050 -> 725; ADV: 1260 -> 870; PRO: 1470->1015 ) - Reduced swarm launcher damage (330 -> 220) - Reduced Swarm Launcher lock-on range from 400m to 175m WeGÇÖre looking forward to hearing your feedback! CCP Wolfman So what you're saying is that you've made swarm launchers completely useless to red line rail sniping tanks. To drop ship pilots who just need to hold down L1 to get as high as possible to avoid swarms. To LAV's who can drive out of range of your lock instantly and then back in again to run you over. What you're also saying now is my Swarms do a fraction of the damage they once did when it already takes me 6 shots (2 reloads) plus nanohives to break some of these tanks at proficiency 5 and 3 complex damage mods. Let's not even mention Blaster tanks. Now I have to be in the middle of the street to get a lock on the tanks. Right in the optimal range of my enemy, to gun me down completely. AND you still haven't said any changes to forge guns like their insta-kills to infantry and roof sniping/camping objectives in PC... Yeah, no thanks. I think I'll just respec out of AV entirely. There better be a respec after this.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 433	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:45:00 - [298] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: if i hold down R1 when using the rail rifle is it going to do this Charge pew pew pew pew pew or Charge pew Charge pew Charge pew Charge pew pew pew pew pew
Krom Ganesh Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 450	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:45:00 - [299] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: if i hold down R1 when using the rail rifle is it going to do this Charge pew pew pew pew pew or Charge pew Charge pew Charge pew Charge pew pew pew pew pew.
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3483	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:48:00 - [300] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Rail Rifle operates like a Breach Assault Rifle with a Complex Damage Mod, higher RoF and MUCH longer range. I'm just gonna put this here: Rail Rifle should equal SMG DPS (383) at excellent 70-100m range. Combat Rifle should be sub-AR DPS (400) at good 50-70m range. AR should remain exactly as it is: 425DPS with 40m range. I think we're going to end up in a long-term nerf cycle until the game gets stats roughly like this. Hell, according to the chart, the Full-auto Combat Rifle has higher DPS (440!) than the blaster-based AR. That just ain't right. I'd even go so far as to say that the AR needs a bit more kick for it's range considering that the other rifles are so damned similar in DPS values. At Close Range, if two weapons have the same DPS - Rate of Fire usually wins simply because you can put more rounds down range and have more room for error in accuracy. This is why the Assault Rifle oftens comes out the victor when in combat against Breach Rifles - and yes, I know overall DPS plays a lot into it but DPS is assuming that all the rounds hit. Three moderately damage rounds can do a lot more overall damage than one high damage round.



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