So now there is no point in speccing into swarms.

Forge will have far superior range

Forge will have far superior damage to vehicles/installations

Forge will have far superior infantry sniping/obliterating ability

Dont waste any points in Swarm Launchers, there is no benefit, put all those sp points into a level 1 heavy suit then level up that Forge Gun. Then we can all have fun as 16 forgers fight 16 forgers. There is zero benefit to swarms after the nerf, hurray it's a light weapon who cares, the plasma cannon and mass driver are going to be more effective AV at this rate.

Just start the match in a logi suit and fly to the highest point on any map, even the new ones, drop uplinks and nanohives, then suicide and get back to those hives and forge away. Now you can solo anything anyone can throw at you. And this is balance? To nerf the only strictly AV weapon in the game and force anyone that can think logically to spec into Forges is going to kill diversity.

I am all for trying to improve the game and balance stats and gameplay, if swarms are ripping the new tanks up on your test servers, then can you please get someone that has used a forge before to take a couple shots at one. It sounds like a fully specced forger, damage mods and level 5 proficiency, will be one shotting tanks. This on top of one shotting anyone in its sights. No wonder all we see in planetary conquest is forges on towers and roofs. Who cares about new rifles when Forge> All.

Yay! more AR flavors. You know, because we did not have enough AR in this game. Thanks, CCP!

Lol at Swarms getting a nerf but FG still one hitting anything it touches, wtf CCP do something about forge gunners camping roof tops and demolishing infantry in one shot/splash...

So now there is no point in speccing into swarms.

Forge will have far superior range

Forge will have far superior damage to vehicles/installations

Forge will have far superior infantry sniping/obliterating ability

Dont waste any points in Swarm Launchers, there is no benefit, put all those sp points into a level 1 heavy suit then level up that Forge Gun. Then we can all have fun as 16 forgers fight 16 forgers. There is zero benefit to swarms after the nerf, hurray it's a light weapon who cares, the plasma cannon and mass driver are going to be more effective AV at this rate.

Just start the match in a logi suit and fly to the highest point on any map, even the new ones, drop uplinks and nanohives, then suicide and get back to those hives and forge away. Now you can solo anything anyone can throw at you. And this is balance? To nerf the only strictly AV weapon in the game and force anyone that can think logically to spec into Forges is going to kill diversity.

I am all for trying to improve the game and balance stats and gameplay, if swarms are ripping the new tanks up on your test servers, then can you please get someone that has used a forge before to take a couple shots at one. It sounds like a fully specced forger, damage mods and level 5 proficiency, will be one shotting tanks. This on top of one shotting anyone in its sights. No wonder all we see in planetary conquest is forges on towers and roofs. Who cares about new rifles when Forge> All.

Yes wicked effective if the dropship hovers less than 175m from swarmer and doesnt try to fly away, Forge still wins. AV nades almost win.

Yes wicked effective if the dropship hovers less than 175m from swarmer and doesnt try to fly away, Forge still wins. AV nades almost win.

61*12=732

Heavies have more base HP then that.

Miss read the chart perhaps?

LOL CCP soon there will be nothing but assault and logi spammers. CCP be sayin "**** heavies". am i right or wrong?

If I rushed you with a AR (high DPS weapon) from 50 meters while you use a Sniper rifle (a low DPS weapon) you would die. If I rushed you with a AR (high DPS weapon) from 200 meters while you use a Sniper rifle (a low DPS weapon) I would die. The damage in this scenario is obviously not the same, but within the optimal range the optimal weapon is winning. Now imagine the Sniper rifle having the same DPS as the AR also its longer range, the optimal weapon for BOTH scenarios would be the sniper rifle (ignoring the sway and impossible hip fire which wouldn't be a problem for the Rail), this is the problem that Arkena is pointing out.

Here's some DPS in case someone else hasn't done it. This is with Proficiency 5 and 2 Complex Damage Mods, which is a common PRO build. For reference, the Duvolle will be included in these calculations. The numbers have been rounded to the nearest multiple of 5.

Duvolle AR: 640 DPS (37.4 damage * 1.15 proficiency * 1.19 mods * 750 RPM / 60 seconds)

Boundless CR: 960 DPS (35.2 damage * 1.15 proficiency * 1.19 mods * 1200 RPM / 60 seconds)
Six Kin CR: 635 DPS (23.2 damage * 1.15 proficiency * 1.19 mods * 1200 RPM / 60 seconds)

Kaalakiota RR: 645 (61.6 damage * 1.15 proficiency * 1.19 mods * 460 RPM / 60 seconds)
Ishukone RR: 655 (48.05 damage * 1.15 proficiency * 1.19 mods * 600 RPM / 60 seconds)

So, full auto Combat Rifles and Rail Rifles have around the same damage output, but at a much longer range than standard Assault Rifles. A 0.2 second spool up doesn't seem to me like it'll be enough to stop Rail Rifle dominance. 3% more damage and a 30m range extension beyond the 48m of the Assault Rifle is very, very good.

Also, with Rail Rifles, there will no longer be a need for Laser Rifles because they cover the same range, except without a reverse damage drop off. 280 DPS between 64m and 83m (19m) or 655 DPS between 0m and 78m (78m)? No, obviously no outclassing there. Two and a half times the damage with quadruple the optimal span? Nope.

Also, heat damage is 0.6 * bullets fired. The standard LR overheats at exactly 60 bullets. Averaging the damage of these 60 bullets, provided you never let go of the trigger to maximize build up, deals 580 damage a second. The Viziam can fire around 70 bullets. This takes 6 seconds and deals 3660 damage, which is 610 damage. The peak damage of a standard LR at the very last bullet is 845 DPS, which is unobtainable because it overheats after one bullet at that DPS. The peak damage of the Viziam is 940.

To make the DPS match the Rail Rifle, you need to "charge" by wasting ammo. To reach the same average DPS throughout the TTK of your average suit, you need to fire 30 shots. This will make you deal around the same damage as the Rail Rifle on average if you land all your shots. This takes 2.5 seconds.

Thus, to reach comparable damage with the Laser Rifle as it is now to the Rail Rifle, you need to "charge" the gun over 2.5 seconds, wasting 30 ammo. The Rail Rifle, on the other hand, only takes 0.2 seconds to charge, wasting no ammo. It also has no overheat to worry about.
And a 78m optimal span, compared to the tiny 19m optimal span of the Laser.

Unless you severely modify the Laser Rifle, the Rail Rifle will either be consistently dealing twice the damage or the Laser will need to charge up for 12 times longer to reach comparable DPS, at which point it's dead twice over. The Rail Rifle thus far seems to be mathematically superior to the Laser Rifle in every way. As a Laser Rifle user, I am disappointed by this news.

Congratulations. You didn't want AR 514, so CCP has made it Long Range AR 514. They have the same DPS over a longer range with negligible trade offs. Are there any mechanics that have not been stated yet for these weapons?

Well, you should see them at that distance. You can't hit them unless you run towards them for 10 seconds first, but you can see them as they kill you in 1.5 seconds (real number if the headshot modifier is 1.5 for RRs) with headshots.

The 0.05 ROF is the time between each shot of a burst. (SHOT-0.05-SHOT-0.05-SHOT)

For comparision the AR has a ROF of 0.08 between each shot, the GK-13 Burst AR has 0.072 and the Allotek Burst AR 0.064.

So the CR bursts are significantly faster and the RPM is then only limited by how fast you can pull the trigger after each burst, which should result in you theoretically being able to shoot every 0.1 seconds.

This would lead to a DPS maximum of 960 for the standard CR. As this sounds like it'd be way too much I guess in reality you will not be able to pull the trigger that fast. Then again I don't expect the CRs real DPS to be much worse than that of the AR. Also from what I heard from the Devs the CR seems to be a really good weapon.




I made a small spreadsheet with the stats of all rifles, including interesting stats like RPM, DPS, damage after 1 second, damage per clip, and time to empty a clip.
You can find it here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkgH4oyiFeUAdFpjQW0wRExKazF6empxY0R2Rm9iV3c&usp=sharing#gid=0




The 0.2 second charge up time for the Rail Rifle is so significant that it can never catch up to the damage output of an AR.

As for the Laser Rifle, well, I guess we have to see how the Rail Rifle works in-game. You have to remember though that the Laser Rifle does not have any recoil no matter for how long you pull the trigger. I expect the Rail Rifle to have some form of recoil that also might increase over time and each time they release the trigger they have to charge up again. But if this is enough to balance the LR against the RR we'll have to see once we can actually use the new rifles.




The AR does more DPS than the RR. Due to the charge up time and a longer reload time the RR can never catch up on damage output.
For example in the first second after pulling the trigger the Duvolle AR will have dealt 467.5 damage while the Ishukone Assault RR will have dealt only 384.4 damage, all due to the charge up time.


Like I said before, here is a spreadsheet with stats of all rifles: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkgH4oyiFeUAdFpjQW0wRExKazF6empxY0R2Rm9iV3c&...

Aaaaaaand THIS IS THE MOMENT WHEN DUST DIED.
It's when the stupid people think than 2.86 to kill an heavy is too slow.
IT'S a ******* HEAVYYYYYY.
Are you ******* kidding me guys ??????

When you will understand than assaut rifle IS NOT SUPPOSED TO KILL SO FAST THE ACTUAL BIGGEST SUIT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's NOT KALOFDOUTIE WHERE YOU INSTANKILL YOU DUMBA*S.

They don't care about us. They want to rid this game of us in the first place. BUT HELL if your level five you kind of don't need any new ones plus you have those that you have from salvage. I'm content.