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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
4187
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Posted - 2013.10.25 07:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:This is somewhat alarming, actually... The Assault Rail Rifle outperforms -EVERYTHING- else in terms of Damage and Range. I don't see any reason to continue using the Assault Rifle when it doesn't even do what it's supposed to anymore: High damage in close quarters combat.
Comparable Level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest DPS:
SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 458.6
GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 446.25
CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 444.7
8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 440
Comparable level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest Optimal Range:
SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 72 meters
CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 55 meters
8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 50 meters
GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 44 meters
Comparable level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest Effective Range:
SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 94 meters
CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 83 meters
8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 77 meters
GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 72 meters
That's even worse than I thought it would be. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
4189
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 07:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
The more I look at these changes the more I see problems.
The weapons with higher ranges are doing more damage than the weapons with low ranges. Take the rail rifle. The assault variant does more damage than a plasma rifle of an equivalent tier, at a significantly longer range. The damage is at a lower RoF and higher damage per shot so there's less grace for missing, but all the same more damage and a much longer range completely overshadows the existing AR.
If a weapon has more range, it needs to lose damage as a trade-off. It can't be like this, where the longer range weapons have both a range advantage AND a DPS advantage. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
4189
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 07:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
DJINN leukoplast wrote:Oh I dunno, the 15 other infantry slaying players on your team seem a good countermeasure to me. Especially seeing as the swarm player is basically defenseless against infantry slayers and can also be insta killed by any vehicle if in range. And lest not forget about all those hills and buildings tankers like to hide behind, nullifying any and all swarms. Now if every player could dual wield a swarm and their favorite light or heavy weapon, then yeah you might have an argument. But no, that's not the case, you just want tank ez mode and portray yourself as a victim so you get buffed and AV gets nerfed  . Nerfing AV at all in anticipation of the tank changes is the worst possible idea. You guys get invincible mode back, and AV gets nerfed? Even though we currently need proto AV to adequately scare off, and sometimes blow up, well fit STD tanks? lol.
leukoplast, I understand that you're worried about tanks potentially dominating everything as they did in the past. However, you have to look at this objectively. The HP potential of tanks has been reduced significantly, and notably the forge gun hasn't been nerfed. Even the plasma cannon may actually be a vaguely viable AV wepaon in the future. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
4192
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 08:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Those numbers dont strike me as particularly odd.
We should stay cautious regarding the DPS stats as we all know the guns behavior is a major factor in how effective a gun is. Also, we dont have the accuracy rating for those new rifles. And we all know how the DPS from the machine gun seems appealing at first..
So yeah. Wait and see.
That may be so, but let's look at the rail rifle. It has a very long range on it. If it's particularly inaccurate, it's not going to effective at that range. If it's accurate enough to take advantage of that range, it outperforms most other weapons. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
4192
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 08:18:00 -
[5] - Quote
KGB Sleep wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Those numbers dont strike me as particularly odd.
We should stay cautious regarding the DPS stats as we all know the guns behavior is a major factor in how effective a gun is. Also, we dont have the accuracy rating for those new rifles. And we all know how the DPS from the machine gun seems appealing at first..
So yeah. Wait and see.
That may be so, but let's look at the rail rifle. It has a very long range on it. If it's particularly inaccurate, it's not going to effective at that range. If it's accurate enough to take advantage of that range, it outperforms most other weapons. So? It has to be accurate to hit tiny moving targets. Range = tiny.
Yes, so it's likely to be accurate at range. So it's accurate, has a longer range than other rifles, and has more damage than other rifles. Do you see the problem? |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
4192
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 08:19:00 -
[6] - Quote
Fizzer94 wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Those numbers dont strike me as particularly odd.
We should stay cautious regarding the DPS stats as we all know the guns behavior is a major factor in how effective a gun is. Also, we dont have the accuracy rating for those new rifles. And we all know how the DPS from the machine gun seems appealing at first..
So yeah. Wait and see.
That may be so, but let's look at the rail rifle. It has a very long range on it. If it's particularly inaccurate, it's not going to effective at that range. If it's accurate enough to take advantage of that range, it outperforms most other weapons. My guess is that its hipfire isn't too great, or the aiming speed while ADS suffer greatly. A combination of both seems likely as well.
I hope so. At the moment, the one mitigating factor to this is the very short charge up time before firing. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
4192
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 08:28:00 -
[7] - Quote
Kaze Eyrou wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:This is somewhat alarming, actually... The Assault Rail Rifle outperforms -EVERYTHING- else in terms of Damage and Range. I don't see any reason to continue using the Assault Rifle when it doesn't even do what it's supposed to anymore: High damage in close quarters combat.
Comparable Level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest DPS:
SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 458.6
GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 446.25
CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 444.7
8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 440
Comparable level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest Optimal Range:
SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 72 meters
CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 55 meters
8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 50 meters
GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 44 meters
Comparable level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest Effective Range:
SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 94 meters
CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 83 meters
8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 77 meters
GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 72 meters Ah yes. This post will do fine. I love how everyone disregarded the charge up time for the new rail rifle... 
Does a delay of less than two bullet's worth seem like a significant enough balancing factor given that once you're firing you can fire continuously for eight seconds of high DPS at a long range? |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
4204
|
Posted - 2013.10.25 16:12:00 -
[8] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:One thing you guys should be aware of is that the Rail Rifle (all variants) have a 0.2 second charge time before they start firing at full auto (so it goes charge -> fire -> fire, not charge -> fire -> charge -> fire)
I'm not sure that's enough to balance the weapon. A spool-up time before each shot is ludicrous, but the weapon is perhaps overly effective in its current state - after a couple of seconds firing the damage exceeds the blaster rifle's damage, at a much increased range with quite possibly superior accuracy.
Also, could we have the accuracy stats? The hip-fire may be significant. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
4243
|
Posted - 2013.10.26 14:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:The Rail Rifle in my experience has a fair bit of kick to it. I'll talk to CCP Wolfman and see if we can get some footage of all four rifles firing a full clip without any input correction (player moving the trigger to keep it on target).
Excellent.
I look forward to seeing this. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
4290
|
Posted - 2013.10.27 13:31:00 -
[10] - Quote
Delta 749 wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Fist Groinpunch wrote:Not a fan of the proposed changes to the AV grenades. It's the most difficult AV weapon to use because it requires you to be essentially face to face with a tank. More risk should equal better reward, ie more damage. lolno How are you face to face with a tank when you are hiding around a corner or behind a wall spamming AV nades which never miss because lolhomingcrutch Loltalking about crutches when he sits in a vehicle that is practically immune to all but three weapons and self heals
wtf tank shuld b godmoed |
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
4292
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Posted - 2013.10.27 14:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Delta 749 wrote:Takahiro Kashuken wrote:Fist Groinpunch wrote:Not a fan of the proposed changes to the AV grenades. It's the most difficult AV weapon to use because it requires you to be essentially face to face with a tank. More risk should equal better reward, ie more damage. lolno How are you face to face with a tank when you are hiding around a corner or behind a wall spamming AV nades which never miss because lolhomingcrutch Loltalking about crutches when he sits in a vehicle that is practically immune to all but three weapons and self heals wtf tank shuld b godmoed Only to stupid enemies such as yourselfs who dont know how to use AV which you clearly dont know how to
I look forward to seeing your continued tears after AV is nerfed and you still get dominated. |
Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
4520
|
Posted - 2013.10.31 23:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Text Grant wrote:
It shouldn't take teamwork to kill one player. No matter his isk involved. It offsets teams and ruins infantry gameplay
So you mean to tell me it shouldn't take teamwork to destroy one massive game changing force multiplier?
Why should it be a 'game changing force multiplier'? Because you want it to be a win button?
Level 4 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Turalyon 514
Turalyon Alliance
4535
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Posted - 2013.11.02 00:03:00 -
[13] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Text Grant wrote:
It shouldn't take teamwork to kill one player. No matter his isk involved. It offsets teams and ruins infantry gameplay
So you mean to tell me it shouldn't take teamwork to destroy one massive game changing force multiplier? Why should it be a 'game changing force multiplier'? Because you want it to be a win button? A Thale's sniper on the MCC is exactly the same thing. Should the Thale's be removed?
It doesn't take teamwork to kill a Thale's sniper, so poor analogy.
Level 4 Forum Warrior
Lenin of the glorious armoured revolution
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