DUST Search - Announcement:Weapon stats!

Jebus McKing wrote:

Borne Velvalor wrote:

(...)So, full auto Combat Rifles and Rail Rifles have around the same damage output, but at a much longer range than standard Assault Rifles. A 0.2 second spool up doesn't seem to me like it'll be enough to stop Rail Rifle dominance. 3% more damage and a 30m range extension beyond the 48m of the Assault Rifle is very, very good.

(...)Unless you severely modify the Laser Rifle, the Rail Rifle will either be consistently dealing twice the damage or the Laser will need to charge up for 12 times longer to reach comparable DPS, at which point it's dead twice over. The Rail Rifle thus far seems to be mathematically superior to the Laser Rifle in every way. As a Laser Rifle user, I am disappointed by this news.

Congratulations. You didn't want AR 514, so CCP has made it Long Range AR 514. They have the same DPS over a longer range with negligible trade offs. Are there any mechanics that have not been stated yet for these weapons?

The 0.2 second charge up time for the Rail Rifle is so significant that it can never catch up to the damage output of an AR.

As for the Laser Rifle, well, I guess we have to see how the Rail Rifle works in-game. You have to remember though that the Laser Rifle does not have any recoil no matter for how long you pull the trigger. I expect the Rail Rifle to have some form of recoil that also might increase over time and each time they release the trigger they have to charge up again. But if this is enough to balance the LR against the RR we'll have to see once we can actually use the new rifles.

Borne Velvalor wrote:

Has everyone missed the part where the Rail Rifle has the same damage per second as the assault rifle over twice the range? Yeah. So, Heavies will indeed be dropping in two to three seconds to Rail Rifles, provided this is an accurate representation of how the gun will work and there isn't some crazy recoil.

The AR does more DPS than the RR. Due to the charge up time and a longer reload time the RR can never catch up on damage output.
For example in the first second after pulling the trigger the Duvolle AR will have dealt 467.5 damage while the Ishukone Assault RR will have dealt only 384.4 damage, all due to the charge up time.

Like I said before, here is a spreadsheet with stats of all rifles: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkgH4oyiFeUAdFpjQW0wRExKazF6empxY0R2Rm9iV3c&usp=sharing#gid=0


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 810	Posted - 2013.10.27 03:11:00 - [1] - Quote So, are the Combat Rifles replacing the Tactical Assault Rifles? Because Tac-ARs also are semiautomatic and share the same ranges. Well, unless you think that the 5m advantage is going to make everyone run the Combat Rifles. The fully automatic Combat Rifle has the range of a GK-Burst Assault Rifle. Rail Rifles look good, except what happens to Laser Rifles? It's bad enough having a 19m span to work with and getting slaughtered by GLUs without Rail Rifles. At least the Laser after heat can out damage most weapons within its optimum range right now. Also, how are the RoFs represented here? Hopefully these guns will promote higher weapon diversity. EDIT: Just noticed that the Combat Rifle is a burst weapon. Whoops.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 810	Posted - 2013.10.27 03:22:00 - [2] - Quote You're nerfing Swarm Launcher damage to 220? Currently, anything other than PRO tier Swarms is basically impossible to kill a fully decked out HAV with before it boosts behind a wall and magically disappears, fully healed. At PRO tier, you're tearing everything a new hole in combination with proficiency and complex damage mods. The problem is the scaling across tiers. All launchers should fire the same amount of rounds, with a 15%/30% damage boost for ADV and PRO, instead of the current 25%/50%. Recall needs to then be reworked. Now, HAV stats have also been reduced. However, the two stat tables taken together show us that HAVs have a 20% longer TTK when the hardners are up or so and the opposite when they are down. This could reinforce the current "activate hardeners, wreck, boost away and recall" mentality among many pubstomping HAV pilots.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 810	Posted - 2013.10.27 05:02:00 - [3] - Quote Here's some DPS in case someone else hasn't done it. This is with Proficiency 5 and 2 Complex Damage Mods, which is a common PRO build. For reference, the Duvolle will be included in these calculations. The numbers have been rounded to the nearest multiple of 5. Duvolle AR: 640 DPS (37.4 damage * 1.15 proficiency * 1.19 mods * 750 RPM / 60 seconds) Boundless CR: 960 DPS (35.2 damage * 1.15 proficiency * 1.19 mods * 1200 RPM / 60 seconds) Six Kin CR: 635 DPS (23.2 damage * 1.15 proficiency * 1.19 mods * 1200 RPM / 60 seconds) Kaalakiota RR: 645 (61.6 damage * 1.15 proficiency * 1.19 mods * 460 RPM / 60 seconds) Ishukone RR: 655 (48.05 damage * 1.15 proficiency * 1.19 mods * 600 RPM / 60 seconds) So, full auto Combat Rifles and Rail Rifles have around the same damage output, but at a much longer range than standard Assault Rifles. A 0.2 second spool up doesn't seem to me like it'll be enough to stop Rail Rifle dominance. 3% more damage and a 30m range extension beyond the 48m of the Assault Rifle is very, very good. Also, with Rail Rifles, there will no longer be a need for Laser Rifles because they cover the same range, except without a reverse damage drop off. 280 DPS between 64m and 83m (19m) or 655 DPS between 0m and 78m (78m)? No, obviously no outclassing there. Two and a half times the damage with quadruple the optimal span? Nope. Also, heat damage is 0.6 * bullets fired. The standard LR overheats at exactly 60 bullets. Averaging the damage of these 60 bullets, provided you never let go of the trigger to maximize build up, deals 580 damage a second. The Viziam can fire around 70 bullets. This takes 6 seconds and deals 3660 damage, which is 610 damage. The peak damage of a standard LR at the very last bullet is 845 DPS, which is unobtainable because it overheats after one bullet at that DPS. The peak damage of the Viziam is 940. To make the DPS match the Rail Rifle, you need to "charge" by wasting ammo. To reach the same average DPS throughout the TTK of your average suit, you need to fire 30 shots. This will make you deal around the same damage as the Rail Rifle on average if you land all your shots. This takes 2.5 seconds. Thus, to reach comparable damage with the Laser Rifle as it is now to the Rail Rifle, you need to "charge" the gun over 2.5 seconds, wasting 30 ammo. The Rail Rifle, on the other hand, only takes 0.2 seconds to charge, wasting no ammo. It also has no overheat to worry about. And a 78m optimal span, compared to the tiny 19m optimal span of the Laser. Unless you severely modify the Laser Rifle, the Rail Rifle will either be consistently dealing twice the damage or the Laser will need to charge up for 12 times longer to reach comparable DPS, at which point it's dead twice over. The Rail Rifle thus far seems to be mathematically superior to the Laser Rifle in every way. As a Laser Rifle user, I am disappointed by this news. Congratulations. You didn't want AR 514, so CCP has made it Long Range AR 514. They have the same DPS over a longer range with negligible trade offs. Are there any mechanics that have not been stated yet for these weapons?
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 810	Posted - 2013.10.27 05:17:00 - [4] - Quote Has everyone missed the part where the Rail Rifle has the same damage per second as the assault rifle over twice the range? Yeah. So, Heavies will indeed be dropping in two to three seconds to Rail Rifles, provided this is an accurate representation of how the gun will work and there isn't some crazy recoil.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 810	Posted - 2013.10.27 05:25:00 - [5] - Quote Vespasian Andendare wrote: Why, again, do we have FOUR Assault Rifle variations and only TWO of the others? What are you talking about? There are 8 Assault Rifle variations. Oh, you thought the Combat Rifles and Rail Rifles were different weapons.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 810	Posted - 2013.10.27 05:30:00 - [6] - Quote Thurak1 wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: Has everyone missed the part where the Rail Rifle has the same damage per second as the assault rifle over twice the range? Yeah. So, Heavies will indeed be dropping in two to three seconds to Rail Rifles, provided this is an accurate representation of how the gun will work and there isn't some crazy recoil. No i totally saw it. I am not happy about it at all. I also wonder if that is the range where i generally cant even see the shooter because heavy weapon's dont generally have a zoom to them and it seems after a certain distance you cant even see a little of a player the game just dosn't even bother drawing them. Another reason i have switched to using my assault suit with a scrambler. That ever so slight zoom they get means i can actually target someone that is far off. Best part is the lagg that happens when i zoom in to where i think they are and 1 second there is nothing then poof like magic someone is right where i zoomed in and they are already fine tuning their aim on me. Sometimes there is enough lagg so that i can see them just in time to lie down from a headshot. Well, you should see them at that distance. You can't hit them unless you run towards them for 10 seconds first, but you can see them as they kill you in 1.5 seconds (real number if the headshot modifier is 1.5 for RRs) with headshots.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 811	Posted - 2013.10.27 05:49:00 - [7] - Quote Levithunder wrote: Laser rifle r.i.p to the rail rifle laser rifle brothers take a moment of silence well at least we were back for a few months . I loved my Laser Rifle. I... don't know if I can go on.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 818	Posted - 2013.10.27 19:20:00 - [8] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: Borne Velvalor wrote: (...)So, full auto Combat Rifles and Rail Rifles have around the same damage output, but at a much longer range than standard Assault Rifles. A 0.2 second spool up doesn't seem to me like it'll be enough to stop Rail Rifle dominance. 3% more damage and a 30m range extension beyond the 48m of the Assault Rifle is very, very good. (...)Unless you severely modify the Laser Rifle, the Rail Rifle will either be consistently dealing twice the damage or the Laser will need to charge up for 12 times longer to reach comparable DPS, at which point it's dead twice over. The Rail Rifle thus far seems to be mathematically superior to the Laser Rifle in every way. As a Laser Rifle user, I am disappointed by this news. Congratulations. You didn't want AR 514, so CCP has made it Long Range AR 514. They have the same DPS over a longer range with negligible trade offs. Are there any mechanics that have not been stated yet for these weapons? The 0.2 second charge up time for the Rail Rifle is so significant that it can never catch up to the damage output of an AR. As for the Laser Rifle, well, I guess we have to see how the Rail Rifle works in-game. You have to remember though that the Laser Rifle does not have any recoil no matter for how long you pull the trigger. I expect the Rail Rifle to have some form of recoil that also might increase over time and each time they release the trigger they have to charge up again. But if this is enough to balance the LR against the RR we'll have to see once we can actually use the new rifles. Borne Velvalor wrote: Has everyone missed the part where the Rail Rifle has the same damage per second as the assault rifle over twice the range? Yeah. So, Heavies will indeed be dropping in two to three seconds to Rail Rifles, provided this is an accurate representation of how the gun will work and there isn't some crazy recoil. The AR does more DPS than the RR. Due to the charge up time and a longer reload time the RR can never catch up on damage output. For example in the first second after pulling the trigger the Duvolle AR will have dealt 467.5 damage while the Ishukone Assault RR will have dealt only 384.4 damage, all due to the charge up time. Like I said before, here is a spreadsheet with stats of all rifles: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkgH4oyiFeUAdFpjQW0wRExKazF6empxY0R2Rm9iV3c&usp=sharing#gid=0 Thank you for the well thought out response. The damage output for the Rail Rifle is affected by the charge up time, but over the average 2 second it'll take to kill a proto considering slight inaccuracy, that's 10% less damage. It already does slightly more DPS, anyways. It'll be enough to get an RR user killed in 1 v 1 combat against an AR user if both pull the trigger at the same time, with the same suit. We'll have to see whether or not these discourage RR dominance or not. I'm thinking that a lot of players would rather have that 78m > 48m range than that 20% damage in the first second of fire. Also, the clip takes longer to unload than an Assault Rifle user. With two complex damage mods and proficiency, you could kill three 1000 eHP protos and still have half a dozen bullets to spare.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 821	Posted - 2013.10.27 21:26:00 - [9] - Quote Bright Cloud wrote: Hmm when was the last time we had a long range high damaging weapon which was fully auto? Oh yeah i remember now it was the pre nerf laser rifle. And the last time the argument with "its crap at close range" hasnt beeing accepted by the community. But ive still have a question if the combat rifle is a 3 round or 7 round burst. If it is 7 then i might spec into it. Loved the allotek AR with 7 round burst and then CCP decided to give it a 3 round burst. I love using the Laser Rifle and feel like it's in a good place against most weapons, other than the drop off at the end to 10% 3m out of optimal. It looks like RRs will be even better than the old LRs and I'll be out of my niche.
Borne Velvalor Endless Hatred 824	Posted - 2013.10.27 22:44:00 - [10] - Quote Heathen Bastard wrote: ToRgUe77 wrote: Well that was over 1.5 mil sp wasted on swarms , nerf hammered just like everything else in this game. BOO. ****ING. HOO. Now you'll need to be within render distance to completely murder a tank. Only proto swarms with complex damage mods and proficiency "murders" HAVs. Everything else just peppers it with its repair unit and hardeners going until it decides to boost around a corner and recall, redeploying later when you've switched away from swarms. EDIT: Also, there's a 55% range reduction PLUS a 33% damage reduction. For reference, this makes post-nerf proto swarms deal the exact same damage as standard swarms. Good luck taking on that Falchion with standard swarms before it magically disappears.