DUST Search - Announcement:Weapon stats!

Jade Dragonis wrote:

CCP Wolfman wrote:

Hi guys,

ItGÇÖs time for some stats! Before you dive in to them let me remind you these are still a work in progress Smile

First off there has been a fair bit of speculation surrounding the upcoming Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle. Speculate no more, for here are their current stats:

[img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/65248/1/riflestats17.jpg[/img]

As a part of their introduction to the game we also plan to rejig the rifle range profiles in line with the weapon type. Rail Rifles are hybrid GÇô railgun tech and are therefore the longest range weapons in the game, followed by laser weapons, projectile weapons and then hybrid GÇô blaster weapons. In the chart below you can see how they stack up Vs one another:

[img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/65234/1/rifleranges17.jpg[/img]

Lastly, as part of the ongoing vehicle work I can confirm we are also making changes to AV. So far weGÇÖve touched the AV Grenades and Swarm Launcher, we do also plan to look at the Forge Gun. These are the current numbers we are testing:

- Reduced AV grenade damage (STD: 1050 -> 725; ADV: 1260 -> 870; PRO: 1470->1015 )
- Reduced swarm launcher damage (330 -> 220)
- Reduced Swarm Launcher lock-on range from 400m to 175m

WeGÇÖre looking forward to hearing your feedback!

CCP Wolfman

Nice. So now advanced and proto tanks can stomp harder. Brilliant move.

Just when you think CCP are getting things right.

At least assault is getting more weapons to kill us heavies with.

Lets see if they ruin the forge gun like they ruined the HMG.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Soraya Xel New Eden's Most Wanted Top Men. 687	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:09:00 - [31] - Quote Swarm nerf is once again, way too large, way too fast. I can see a damage nerf, but the lock-on nerf? That pretty much renders dropships invincible and non-removable, and the same goes for sniper tanks behind redlines.
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 99	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:11:00 - [32] - Quote Doc Noah wrote: Good to see they nerfed the swarms by 1/3 of it's damage, I was struggling to kill rep tanks and now I dont even need to bother going after them. Rejoice armor tanks, you win. Because you shouldn't go after a tank by yourself?
crazy space 1 Unkn0wn Killers 1911	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:13:00 - [33] - Quote why aren't you getting rid of the burst AR and TAR? doesn't the rail and combat rifle make them obsolete?
Jade Dragonis GRIM MARCH 231	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:14:00 - [34] - Quote I would comment but seems it gets removed. So obviously no comolaints CCP. Wonderful job as always.
Grimmiers 0uter.Heaven 267	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:14:00 - [35] - Quote I'd like to point out that the breach rail vs assault rail dps is 473.9 (Breach) to 480.5 (Assault) while the Gallente breach vs assault is 292.7 (Breach) to 426.25 (Assault). You should either remove the breach varient of the gallente assault rifle, or buff it's rof to 550 so it's can fill its role at being a lower dps hipfire gun. In fact it's like the other rifle are just playing the roles of the gallente assault rifle we have now so I wouldn't care if the burst, tactical, and breach assault rifles were removed to encourage diversity.
Foundation Seldon Gespenster Kompanie Villore Accords 123	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:17:00 - [36] - Quote NOTE : AV NERF IS IN RESPECT TO NEW VEHICLE STATS - KEEP THIS IN MIND In General - Tanks have lower HP, higher shield regen, and finite ammo supplies. Armor Tanks - Don't have ridiculous active reps anymore. They're PASSIVE always on and at a much lower rate. ~ With this in mind ... YES! What this means is that more than likely it'll require a bit of teamwork to take out a well fit vehicle and the act of soloing a tank is going to be a much more difficult endeavor. THIS IS OKAY because Tanks will be in no way as dominant as they were in previous builds of the game because they'll have to keep ammo sufficiently supplied in order to be effective. They won't be able to plop down in a single spot and farm kills while staying in cover. AV is now more suited as an area denial deterrent rather than something that will commonly be used to take out tanks unless there's a sufficient level of coordination. The exciting thing here is that the AV stats are within reasonable levels for all vehicles. I'd say the balance as it is right now is set to where tanks can be countered but the act of setting the bar this high meant that all other vehicles (minus the LLAV) became extremely vulnerable. The exciting thing in my eyes is that with AV being at this level I could probably profit off of being a dedicated LAV (not LLAV) driver or Dropship pilot without having to deal with losing an expensively fit vehicle before I can react in any sort of meaningful way. The changes to Swarms in particular will probably make them much less effective at taking out Dropships that are doing anything other than hovering in their vicinity
Cosgar ParagonX 6458	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:19:00 - [37] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Cosgar wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: It seems the DPS on the Rail Rifles is about the same at the DPS on Blaster Rifles. I was expecting it to be lower as a tradeoff for its range. Maybe the RRs will kick pretty hard? Or maybe they will have the worst hipfire? Probably a lower RoF since the breach was its placeholder. Which brings up a question- what's the scope zoom going to be like on it? I know it has a lower ROF, but it dishes out damage just as fast as the AR. About 450 DPS at standard. This worries me. Here's hoping it has some sort of downside to make up for its range. Let's hope they learned from the Creadron breach fiasco...
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 135	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:19:00 - [38] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Lastly, as part of the ongoing vehicle work I can confirm we are also making changes to AV. So far weGÇÖve touched the AV Grenades and Swarm Launcher, we do also plan to look at the Forge Gun. These are the current numbers we are testing: - Reduced AV grenade damage (STD: 1050 -> 725; ADV: 1260 -> 870; PRO: 1470->1015 ) - Reduced swarm launcher damage (330 -> 220) - Reduced Swarm Launcher lock-on range from 400m to 175m WeGÇÖre looking forward to hearing your feedback! CCP Wolfman My feedback on this is that the game will be virtually unplayable for infantry players (i.e. 90%+ of the playerbase). The expectation was something like a 5% or at most 10% nerf to AV. I wouldn't have liked that, as I think the current tank/infantry balance is good (I see tanks going 40+/0 frequently in pubs, and good tankers are the most valuable asset in PC), but I could have lived with it. 33% nerf to damage for swarms and 31% for AV nades (at PRO) is just ridiculous. Add to that the 56% nerf to swarm launcher range and it is clear that the intention is to make that weapon (the primary AV weapon) unusable. Do you guys have such short memories that you can't remember the indestructible tanks in beta? Because that's what you will go back to with these numbers.
DeeJay One Guardian Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 99	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:20:00 - [39] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: Cosgar wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: It seems the DPS on the Rail Rifles is about the same at the DPS on Blaster Rifles. I was expecting it to be lower as a tradeoff for its range. Maybe the RRs will kick pretty hard? Or maybe they will have the worst hipfire? Probably a lower RoF since the breach was its placeholder. Which brings up a question- what's the scope zoom going to be like on it? I know it has a lower ROF, but it dishes out damage just as fast as the AR. About 450 DPS at standard. This worries me. Here's hoping it has some sort of downside to make up for its range. It has spin up time, which should help a bit with lowering the overall effective DPS as you have to lead your first burst a bit more.
Raz Warsaw Capital Acquisitions LLC Public Disorder. 39	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:20:00 - [40] - Quote Hopefully their not lazy and reuse the acog from the tar like they did the laser rifle

Ulme Mees Eesti Leegion 20	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:23:00 - [41] - Quote I want my SP from Swarm Launcers back :(
Aeon Amadi A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S. 3466	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:23:00 - [42] - Quote This is somewhat alarming, actually... The Assault Rail Rifle outperforms -EVERYTHING- else in terms of Damage and Range. I don't see any reason to continue using the Assault Rifle when it doesn't even do what it's supposed to anymore: High damage in close quarters combat. Comparable Level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest DPS: SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 458.6 GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 446.25 CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 444.7 8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 440 Comparable level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest Optimal Range: SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 72 meters CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 55 meters 8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 50 meters GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 44 meters Comparable level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest Effective Range: SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 94 meters CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 83 meters 8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 77 meters GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 72 meters
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 9651	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:24:00 - [43] - Quote crazy space 1 wrote: why aren't you getting rid of the burst AR and TAR? doesn't the rail and combat rifle make them obsolete? Also weren't they place holders? Plus now gallente get 4 guns, then ammar gets 2, minmatar gets 2, caldari get 2. Blasters: Full-auto/Burst/Long range/Breach Rail guns: Full-auto/Long range Projectiles: Full-auto/Burst Lasers: Full-auto/Charge So you remove burst and Long range variants of the current weapon, and now every rave gets a automatic weapon, and a weapon based on their racial technology. Also this would open up the breach for a serious buff. Cut the guns range in half, give it a huge damage increase and RoF nerf. It's a blaster, now that we have 4 racial types of the weapon you can balance them more effectively. ! Not everyone is going to train up the other races rifles up.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 562	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:26:00 - [44] - Quote OK. That combat rifle is easier to fit, has a higher DPS, larger magazine size and more range than the current AR. There is something wrong here.
Fizzer94 L.O.T.I.S. Public Disorder. 563	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:29:00 - [45] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: This is somewhat alarming, actually... The Assault Rail Rifle outperforms -EVERYTHING- else in terms of Damage and Range. I don't see any reason to continue using the Assault Rifle when it doesn't even do what it's supposed to anymore: High damage in close quarters combat. Comparable Level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest DPS: SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 458.6 GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 446.25 CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 444.7 8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 440 Comparable level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest Optimal Range: SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 72 meters CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 55 meters 8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 50 meters GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 44 meters Comparable level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest Effective Range: SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 94 meters CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 83 meters 8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 77 meters GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 72 meters I know! I don't think CCP remembers that DPS needs to be sacrificed when you make a ranged weapon.
Ryme Intrinseca Seraphim Auxiliaries 136	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:29:00 - [46] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: With this in mind ... YES! What this means is that more than likely it'll require a bit of teamwork to take out a well fit vehicle and the act of soloing a tank is going to be a much more difficult endeavor. THIS IS OKAY because Tanks will be in no way as dominant as they were in previous builds of the game because they'll have to keep ammo sufficiently supplied in order to be effective. If it takes a team of infantry to take down a tank then of course the tank is dominant. If one player can do something that requires several players on the opposing side to counter it, then that thing provides a decisive numerical advantage. Rocks-paper-scissors requires that one 'paper' (AV) can beat one 'rock' (tank). If it takes two or three AV to beat one tank, then AV is futile, as you'd be better off just bringing out your own tank. In other words, you don't have rock-paper-scissors but rather tank>infantry.
ChromeBreaker SVER True Blood Public Disorder. 1415	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:33:00 - [47] - Quote Need MOAR Info's!!
Dengar Skirata the third day Public Disorder. 11	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:36:00 - [48] - Quote Would pictures be too much too ask for? The info is great, but can we SEE the rifles? Just wondering.
Grimmiers 0uter.Heaven 269	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:37:00 - [49] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: This is somewhat alarming, actually... The Assault Rail Rifle outperforms -EVERYTHING- else in terms of Damage and Range. I don't see any reason to continue using the Assault Rifle when it doesn't even do what it's supposed to anymore: High damage in close quarters combat. Comparable Level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest DPS: -Stuff Well I was going to wait and see how the rail rifle's rof and .2 second charge up time will balance it out for cqc fights. As of now it does seem like the rail rifle plays like the op breach rifle back in the day.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 440	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:37:00 - [50] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: crazy space 1 wrote: why aren't you getting rid of the burst AR and TAR? Not everyone is going to train up the other races rifles up. as if anyone uses the burst or breach anyway.

Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 4187	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:37:00 - [51] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: This is somewhat alarming, actually... The Assault Rail Rifle outperforms -EVERYTHING- else in terms of Damage and Range. I don't see any reason to continue using the Assault Rifle when it doesn't even do what it's supposed to anymore: High damage in close quarters combat. Comparable Level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest DPS: SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 458.6 GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 446.25 CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 444.7 8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 440 Comparable level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest Optimal Range: SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 72 meters CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 55 meters 8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 50 meters GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 44 meters Comparable level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest Effective Range: SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 94 meters CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 83 meters 8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 77 meters GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 72 meters That's even worse than I thought it would be.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 6672	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:38:00 - [52] - Quote ROF stat, what the hell is it? per minute, per second? what exactly? 0.05 seems like a wrong number.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 532	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:39:00 - [53] - Quote AR get the sharpshooter skill, rail may not. I would also expect more kick from a rail then a plasma weapon. So, the actual applied dps may be lower for the rail if it has more kick and dispersion. The applied damage should be lower, if it is as high as one paper it needs fixed. Also, is a tac rail, tac combat, breach combat, breach scrambler, or burst scrambler planned? If tac combat rifle is added, range should be between scrambler and tac rail. Since it would basically be projectile (artillery) tech(in eve artillery is high damage per shot and low rate of fire projectile), which falls between laser-beam and hybrid-rail in range. hybrid(blaster) less then projectile-autocannon less then laser-pulse less then laser-beam less then projectile-artillery less then hybrid-rail If vehicle hp is reduced in re-balance then the av nerf won't be as bad as it looks, and may be only -10%. Need to see all the numbers at once to tell.
Ten-Sidhe Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 532	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:41:00 - [54] - Quote ROF is in time interval between shots. 60 divided by the decimal will give the rounds per minute.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 6672	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:41:00 - [55] - Quote I hate your font, 6s look like 8s
crazy space 1 Unkn0wn Killers 1911	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:41:00 - [56] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: crazy space 1 wrote: why aren't you getting rid of the burst AR and TAR? doesn't the rail and combat rifle make them obsolete? Also weren't they place holders? Plus now gallente get 4 guns, then ammar gets 2, minmatar gets 2, caldari get 2. Blasters: Full-auto/Burst/Long range/Breach Rail guns: Full-auto/Long range Projectiles: Full-auto/Burst Lasers: Full-auto/Charge So you remove burst and Long range variants of the current weapon, and now every rave gets a automatic weapon, and a weapon based on their racial technology. Also this would open up the breach for a serious buff. Cut the guns range in half, give it a huge damage increase and RoF nerf. It's a blaster, now that we have 4 racial types of the weapon you can balance them more effectively. ! Not everyone is going to train up the other races rifles up. So then you want them to give all 4 races all 4 weapon types? Because what you actually just said was "People with Gallente weapons shouldn't have to cross train, but everyone else should"
Bendtner92 Imperfects Negative-Feedback 1177	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:42:00 - [57] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: ROF stat, what the hell is it? per minute, per second? what exactly? 0.05 seems like a wrong number. Time between shots.
Aqil Aegivan The Southern Legion The Umbra Combine 224	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:42:00 - [58] - Quote I've got to say between this and the vehicle stats CCP seems to have turned a corner in communicating changes. Kudos. I assume that damage profile wise the combat rifle is projectile (better vs armour) and the rail rifle gets the same suit-based hybrid bonuses as blaster hybrid weapons (or is my knowledge of suit bonuses out of date)? On the AV side of things I understand the need to focus on changing values for testing, rather than time consuming code changes, but I still think that we won't see much improvement in game play without looking at the mechanics. Static damage application between light, medium, and heavy vehicles will always struggle for balance. AV homing radius should respond to vehicle profile, as should swarm lock time. Larger Swarm launchers should be heavier and should track more slowly. Anti-tank missiles should be guide by wire not fire and forget. Let LAVs and dropships speed and signature tank and give scout LAVs and assault dropships a role at the same time. Nerfing AV grenades is all well and good but wouldn't swapping their damage with that of mines make for more tactical anti-vehicle play? An equipment slot item rather than a grenade (no assault based 'nade spam). Plus the ability to set traps in exchange for the ability to just chuck them from behind cover.
Dengar Skirata the third day Public Disorder. 12	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:42:00 - [59] - Quote So when can we expect these weapons and AV changes to be implemented? 1.7? 1.8? Oh, and, uh... Any word on the MAGSEC? I've been looking forward to that thing for ages now...
TechMechMeds Swamp Marines Kleenex Inc. 899	Posted - 2013.10.25 07:46:00 - [60] - Quote Jade Dragonis wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Hi guys, ItGÇÖs time for some stats! Before you dive in to them let me remind you these are still a work in progress First off there has been a fair bit of speculation surrounding the upcoming Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle. Speculate no more, for here are their current stats: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/65248/1/riflestats17.jpg[/img] As a part of their introduction to the game we also plan to rejig the rifle range profiles in line with the weapon type. Rail Rifles are hybrid GÇô railgun tech and are therefore the longest range weapons in the game, followed by laser weapons, projectile weapons and then hybrid GÇô blaster weapons. In the chart below you can see how they stack up Vs one another: [img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/65234/1/rifleranges17.jpg[/img] Lastly, as part of the ongoing vehicle work I can confirm we are also making changes to AV. So far weGÇÖve touched the AV Grenades and Swarm Launcher, we do also plan to look at the Forge Gun. These are the current numbers we are testing: - Reduced AV grenade damage (STD: 1050 -> 725; ADV: 1260 -> 870; PRO: 1470->1015 ) - Reduced swarm launcher damage (330 -> 220) - Reduced Swarm Launcher lock-on range from 400m to 175m WeGÇÖre looking forward to hearing your feedback! CCP Wolfman Nice. So now advanced and proto tanks can stomp harder. Brilliant move. Just when you think CCP are getting things right. At least assault is getting more weapons to kill us heavies with. Lets see if they ruin the forge gun like they ruined the HMG. Spoken like a true av barbarian newb. Everything looks great.



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