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Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

I did not see the word promise in that paragraph whatsoever.

A promise is defined as a declaration of assurance, a claim of what will happen, to give good ground for expectation; I'd say a dev post saying something will happen is plenty good grounds to expect it. The word "promise" itself is not required for something to be a promise.
Why are you always doing this anyway? whenever someone tries to hold CCP to their word you have to swoop in and find loop holes.
I remember when you even claimed weapons, vehicle, and dropsuit racial variants were NEVER promised within 1 yr from Fanfest despite you yourself having been there. I had to link you the talk (Advancing the core) where they said they'll be out within 6 to 12 months of the time of that Fanfest. Speaking of which, I'm actually hopeful and optimistic that they will be able to keep that promise.

The guy who made that promise is no longer with CCP.

Did not know that, thanks for telling me.

Does that mean its no longer planned? I would really love a confirmation or at least a denial. The plan made a lot of sense.

There was a massive disruption in plans, Im surprised you didn't keep up on these things. Head on over to the counselors chambers and read the AMA that should give a more or less the situation up until now.

I mean it was not the best kept secret the last EP departed and we now have a replacement one CCP Rouge.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Heinz Doofenshertz BetaMax. 542	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:48:00 - [301] - Quote The Data is the data, it's not wrong, for the situation presented. if tank A is fit this way, and weapon A is skilled and fitted this way this is how long it will take on nothing but shooting it to kill it. While the data may not meet your standards, it is for the situation presented acurate. if you would like more situations to be represented, you do know where I am to offer your assistance to make it better.
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 1284	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:49:00 - [302] - Quote You are god. I demand we name a tank hull after you
Forlorn Destrier Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2159	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:50:00 - [303] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: crazy space 1 wrote: why aren't you getting rid of the burst AR and TAR? doesn't the rail and combat rifle make them obsolete? Also weren't they place holders? Plus now gallente get 4 guns, then ammar gets 2, minmatar gets 2, caldari get 2. Blasters: Full-auto/Burst/Long range/Breach Rail guns: Full-auto/Long range Projectiles: Full-auto/Burst Lasers: Full-auto/Charge So you remove burst and Long range variants of the current weapon, and now every rave gets a automatic weapon, and a weapon based on their racial technology. Also this would open up the breach for a serious buff. Cut the guns range in half, give it a huge damage increase and RoF nerf. It's a blaster, now that we have 4 racial types of the weapon you can balance them more effectively. ! Not everyone is going to train up the other races rifles up. So AR gets special treatment because it was there first? Remove the extra variants, and just have a respec. The alternative is to give each race variants of every other race's rifle to be fair like CCP Remnant PROMISED but seemed to forgot and have not mentioned sense. I did not see the word promise in that paragraph whatsoever. IWS - you are being argumentative again over semantics, and getting overly defensive. CCP Remnant's statement was phrased as an absolute. Also, you are appear to be inflexible again on this point and not acknowledging the validity of what was suggested.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 853	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:50:00 - [304] - Quote Just to be clear, the stats as proposed give you the choice of: Amazing DPS at amazing range. (Rail.) Fantastic DPS at good range. (Combat.) Good DPS at okay range. (Assault Rifle.) PEOPLE ALREADY COMPLAIN ABOUT THE ASSAULT RIFLE.
Niuvo The Phoenix Federation The Ascendancy 651	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:53:00 - [305] - Quote I expect the worst from these new weapons. "flaylock" nightmares. Can we get skillful "hard" weapons? How about them scouts?
Shotty GoBang Pro Hic Immortalis 1747	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:53:00 - [306] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: If you think 383 is beastly at range, you're going to have a field day with the rail rifle as proposed. It's set to do 430 DPS at 70-100km, which is more DPS than the current AR. Run away, little Scout! Run away! Shotguns and Knives better start hitting and killing the deadly things we sneak up behind. Disturbingly Bored wrote: PEOPLE ALREADY COMPLAIN ABOUT THE ASSAULT RIFLE. * Raises little Scout hands *
Forlorn Destrier Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2159	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:53:00 - [307] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I did not see the word promise in that paragraph whatsoever. A promise is defined as a declaration of assurance, a claim of what will happen, to give good ground for expectation; I'd say a dev post saying something will happen is plenty good grounds to expect it. The word "promise" itself is not required for something to be a promise. Why are you always doing this anyway? whenever someone tries to hold CCP to their word you have to swoop in and find loop holes. I remember when you even claimed weapons, vehicle, and dropsuit racial variants were NEVER promised within 1 yr from Fanfest despite you yourself having been there. I had to link you the talk (Advancing the core) where they said they'll be out within 6 to 12 months of the time of that Fanfest. Speaking of which, I'm actually hopeful and optimistic that they will be able to keep that promise. The guy who made that promise is no longer with CCP. IWS, I offered to give all CPM a fresh look recently. Kain appears to be different and not playing the same game he used to play I'm happy to admit, but you are just as defensive, argumentative, and inflexible when the player base approaches you. I shouldn't say you lost my support as I was trying to be impartial, but I can say I won't support you moving forward. You need to be replaced when we have an election hopefully next year.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 1746	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:55:00 - [308] - Quote Disturbingly Bored wrote: Aeon Amadi wrote: Rail Rifle operates like a Breach Assault Rifle with a Complex Damage Mod, higher RoF and MUCH longer range. I'm just gonna put this here: Rail Rifle should equal SMG DPS (383) at excellent 70-100m range. Combat Rifle should be sub-AR DPS (400) at good 50-70m range. AR should remain exactly as it is: 425DPS with 40m range. I think we're going to end up in a long-term nerf cycle until the game gets stats roughly like this. Hell, according to the chart, the Full-auto Combat Rifle has higher DPS (440!) than the blaster-based AR. That just ain't right. ] I think the RoF inside of bursts is shown. What we don't know is how fast can you fire bursts. My guess is that it can't be much faster than a Scr. So rather than getting 20 rounds per second, its probably 25% to 30% less or so. Also with the combat rifle, you'd effectively get only 18 shots in a clip since the bursts are automatic. That shouldn't be overlooked. Also, who knows if they will change the minmatar assault as a result of this. As for the rail rifle, it can easily funcion with a kind of semi-automatic mode thanks to the charge up. Using it this way will be a little challengeing as it would require keeping the reticle on target, but it will greatly conserve ammunition. Scrambler rifle still has a better 'per shot' hit though.
Cenex Langly D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 271	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:57:00 - [309] - Quote DeeJay One wrote: Doc Noah wrote: Good to see they nerfed the swarms by 1/3 of it's damage, I was struggling to kill rep tanks and now I dont even need to bother going after them. Rejoice armor tanks, you win. Because you shouldn't go after a tank by yourself? OH MY GOD! You're right. This solves all our problems. Just don't go after a tank alone and everything is better!
BARDAS DUST University Ivy League 728	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:57:00 - [310] - Quote Sounds like the days where tanks go 50-0 without any fear of death are making a return. Yes, AV needed to be balanced but CCP doesn't know the meaning of small tweaks. They just all out neutered it.

Cenex Langly D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 271	Posted - 2013.10.25 15:58:00 - [311] - Quote Maken Tosch wrote: axis alpha wrote: The nerf of av nade is the re arise of murder taxi I guarantee it.... this is fukin bs Dude... the LAVs got nerfed before the AVs. People don't murder taxi as effectively as they use to. I know from experience even in a match with no AV players on the field. Except you still can't kill Logi LAV's, so reducing the AV damage plus the range just makes them even more of a nuisance.
Disturbingly Bored The Strontium Asylum 853	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:00:00 - [312] - Quote Beren Hurin wrote: I think the RoF inside of bursts is shown. What we don't know is how fast can you fire bursts. My guess is that it can't be much faster than a Scr. So rather than getting 20 rounds per second, its probably 25% to 30% less or so. Also with the combat rifle, you'd effectively get only 18 shots in a clip since the bursts are automatic. That shouldn't be overlooked. Beren, I am only referring to the full-auto combat rifle in my numbers and analysis. The Burst version may very well be okay. But when you start comparing full-auto weapons to full-auto weapons and the normal AR, the new full-auto rifles look like they're going to be annoying FOTM right away.
CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 1284	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:04:00 - [313] - Quote BARDAS wrote: Sounds like the days where tanks go 50-0 without any fear of death are making a return. Yes, AV needed to be balanced but CCP doesn't know the meaning of small tweaks. They just all out neutered it. Well actually you will still be able to solo tanks when their hardeners come off. Madrugars can't rep through damage anymore and shield tanks with have 2250 ehp when their hardeners shut off. These av weapons will be more effective at killing new tanks in an ambush tactic.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3250	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:04:00 - [314] - Quote Swarm launcher lock range has me worried. Fizzer94 wrote: Cosgar wrote: Fizzer94 wrote: It seems the DPS on the Rail Rifles is about the same at the DPS on Blaster Rifles. I was expecting it to be lower as a tradeoff for its range. Maybe the RRs will kick pretty hard? Or maybe they will have the worst hipfire? Probably a lower RoF since the breach was its placeholder. Which brings up a question- what's the scope zoom going to be like on it? I know it has a lower ROF, but it dishes out damage just as fast as the AR. About 450 DPS at standard. This worries me. Here's hoping it has some sort of downside to make up for its range. When it omes to close combat, splitting up you damage into many bits of damage is better. So two rifles both have 450 DPS, but one does one blast of 450 every second while the other does 450 blasts of 1 damage every second. The latter rifle will be better up close as you are doing the damage consistently and if you miss a few shots it's not that big deal, where as the first if you miss the shot you have to wait another second before you have another chance to deal damage, which can mean death in close combat. Also the rail rifle is going to have a 0.2 second charge up time before every shot, so that means every shot is effectively going to lag 0.2 seconds which sounds like a fair trade off to me. The rail rifle will be much better at range and suffer tremendously in close combat to the Gallente assault rifle.
Forlorn Destrier Bullet Cluster Legacy Rising 2159	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:06:00 - [315] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I did not see the word promise in that paragraph whatsoever. A promise is defined as a declaration of assurance, a claim of what will happen, to give good ground for expectation; I'd say a dev post saying something will happen is plenty good grounds to expect it. The word "promise" itself is not required for something to be a promise. Why are you always doing this anyway? whenever someone tries to hold CCP to their word you have to swoop in and find loop holes. I remember when you even claimed weapons, vehicle, and dropsuit racial variants were NEVER promised within 1 yr from Fanfest despite you yourself having been there. I had to link you the talk (Advancing the core) where they said they'll be out within 6 to 12 months of the time of that Fanfest. Speaking of which, I'm actually hopeful and optimistic that they will be able to keep that promise. The guy who made that promise is no longer with CCP. Did not know that, thanks for telling me. Does that mean its no longer planned? I would really love a confirmation or at least a denial. The plan made a lot of sense. There was a massive disruption in plans, Im surprised you didn't keep up on these things. Head on over to the counselors chambers and read the AMA that should give a more or less the situation up until now. I mean it was not the best kept secret the last EP departed and we now have a replacement one CCP Rouge. Again - reads as if it is the player's fault and as if you are talking down to the player base.
Happy Violentime OMFGZOMBIESRUN 132	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:07:00 - [316] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: Those numbers dont strike me as particularly odd. We should stay cautious regarding the DPS stats as we all know the guns behavior is a major factor in how effective a gun is. Also, we dont have the accuracy rating for those new rifles. And we all know how the DPS from the machine gun seems appealing at first.. So yeah. Wait and see. Wait and see? Tell CCP not to bother posting up stuff in advance in future if your contribution is 'wait and see'
Icarus DelSol BIG BAD W0LVES 0	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:08:00 - [317] - Quote Foundation Seldon wrote: [quote=Ryme Intrinseca][quote=Foundation Seldon] In order to incentivize the use of AV against vehicles though I think it'd be nice to see the return of WP awarded for doing a sufficient amount of damage to Tanks. If dedicated AV won't be getting the majority of their points from killing tanks then I think it'd be nice if they got rewarded for doing enough to deter them. This. So maybe if you do a certain percentage of damage to a tank (say 30% of total HP) in some time period (maybe 15 seconds) and the tank withdraws (doesn't get any kills for 30 - 60 seconds) you get WP for deterring the tank? How much would this be worth, 25WP like an infantry assist? 75WP like a vehicle kill assist? 15WP like a scanning assist?
Goric Rumis Dead Six Initiative Lokun Listamenn 235	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:11:00 - [318] - Quote At a glance, I like the AV changes. I would still prefer for HAV's to be hardened against AV grenades so that they're really only useful for taking out lighter vehicles. I like the reduction in lock-on range for the swarm launcher--my style was always to put it on a scout suit anyway, and the range modification supports its role as a light AV weapon. I don't have much of an opinion about the rifles--I would have to crunch numbers like crazy, and I just don't have the time.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon 514 Turalyon Alliance 4204	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:12:00 - [319] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: One thing you guys should be aware of is that the Rail Rifle (all variants) have a 0.2 second charge time before they start firing at full auto (so it goes charge -> fire -> fire, not charge -> fire -> charge -> fire) I'm not sure that's enough to balance the weapon. A spool-up time before each shot is ludicrous, but the weapon is perhaps overly effective in its current state - after a couple of seconds firing the damage exceeds the blaster rifle's damage, at a much increased range with quite possibly superior accuracy. Also, could we have the accuracy stats? The hip-fire may be significant.
Daxxis KANNAH Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 433	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:12:00 - [320] - Quote Aero Yassavi wrote: Also the rail rifle is going to have a 0.2 second charge up time before every shot, so that means every shot is effectively going to lag 0.2 seconds which sounds like a fair trade off to me. The rail rifle will be much better at range and suffer tremendously in close combat to the Gallente assault rifle. That is incorrect

CharCharOdell Shining Flame Amarr Empire 1284	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:12:00 - [321] - Quote Charge up for rail will probs be like the railgun- hummmm-pew!pew!pew!
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3250	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:13:00 - [322] - Quote Daxxis KANNAH wrote: Aero Yassavi wrote: Also the rail rifle is going to have a 0.2 second charge up time before every shot, so that means every shot is effectively going to lag 0.2 seconds which sounds like a fair trade off to me. The rail rifle will be much better at range and suffer tremendously in close combat to the Gallente assault rifle. That is incorrect Yup, I just read through the thread and realized that.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3250	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:15:00 - [323] - Quote Rabbit C515 wrote: Good Job! Then Where is the Laser Rifle? Also will CCP adjust the magnification of scope? since their range are increased. Laser rifle is not part of the same class of weapons. Just because it says "rifle" doesn't mean you should compare it with assault rifle, scrambler rifles, combat rifles, and rail rifles. I mean, by that case we should also be trying to compare sniper rifles in this group as well.
Melchiah ARANeAE the unholy legion of darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY 163	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:17:00 - [324] - Quote Will we also get militia variants of them and have them on the starter fits?
Icarus DelSol BIG BAD W0LVES 0	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:18:00 - [325] - Quote Shotty GoBang wrote: Disturbingly Bored wrote: If you think 383 is beastly at range, you're going to have a field day with the rail rifle as proposed. It's set to do 430 DPS at 70-100km, which is more DPS than the current AR. Run away, little Scout! Run away! Shotguns and Knives better start hitting and killing the deadly things we sneak up behind. Disturbingly Bored wrote: PEOPLE ALREADY COMPLAIN ABOUT THE ASSAULT RIFLE. * Puts down broken Shotgun. Raises both hands. * Pats on shoulder. Presses tear release valve on bottom of face shield. Picks up broken shotgun, shoots a round into the air in salute, and puts back into upraised hands. Hands profile dampener, shrugs, and walks away into the burning Research Lab.
Heimdallr69 Imperfect Bastards 1088	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:20:00 - [326] - Quote Rei Shepard wrote: Hmm proto Rail rifle 42 Rounds, 81 something damage, full auto ? Sounds like the upgrade to a scrambler rifle seizing up at round 23, rail rifle no problem just keep slugging. Unless the recoil is going to be horrible on that thing? Edit: Most suits will be 2-3 shot with the average Proto being 4 shot, even my suit will be a 5 shot (0.6 seconds) and then youll have enough rounds lef for another 8 suits... sounds to me like the New Tac Fotm The full auto is 53 dmg or whatev go look again and I'm sure the rof sucks ass
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 156	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:36:00 - [327] - Quote I took a while to read through the whole thread this morning...BTW mostly well thought out points and concerns on all sides, only the obligatory amount of trolling. Just wanted to state my opinion, purely subjective commentary, but I'm trying to be as balanced on this as I can and I also have a couple questions: 1) New Rifles...good deal. I'm pretty keen to try out the rail rifle and I have a lot of Minmatar buddies that are foaming at the mouth for the Combat Rifle. I'll reserve judgement on preformance till I actually experinece how they funciton in combat. 2) Any word on other weapons? Particularly the MagSec SMG...my understanding that it is the Caldari sidearm, correct? It's a little confusing since the current SMGs have both Minmatar and Caldari manufactured versions. 3) AVs...lot of thoughts on this. I specialize in AV work and have put quite a bit of time and SP into that playstyle. I think poorly fitted or poorly operated tanks don't do well and well fitted / well fought tanks preform pretty well. I use advanced AV grenades and proto swarms and work very hard for ever kill on HAVs and particularly Dropships. - Loss of range for Swarms is huge...I'm way more concerned about this than the damage nerf. This is the only way to effectively deal with redline tanks and turrets. Also, on some of the bigger maps that means you are a real disadvantage in getting to an overwatch position to disrupt / destroy vehicles for your team. As pointed out earlier...Dropships will suddenly be damn near untouchable if the pilot has half a brain. - Nerfing AV damage and lower HP of vehicles...seems like it evens out. Unprepared tanks will be at a disadvantage if they haven't activated their defensive modules; probably legit. - Anything other than base / BPO vehicles with no fittings can be deceptively hard to kill. I honestly think we need to INCREASE the WP per HAV and Dropship kill. High risk, High difficult, High pay-off. - Generally, I do think Swarms need to have the uber-tracking toned down. The exchange should be significantly faster projectile speed...this eliminates chasing around 90 degree walls and HAVs and Dropships that out run your rounds.
Aero Yassavi PIE Inc. Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 3251	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:38:00 - [328] - Quote Ok guys, I'm not really big into balancing numbers but I love looking at mechanics and I think I may realized what's going to be the big difference when selecting your weapons. When you're in that close combat range, which a lot of action around objectives is, the assault rifle would be a better choice functionally not only because of the high ROF but because if you realize you're going off target on your aim, you can stop your aim and readjust to conserve bullets in your magazine. For the rail rifle, every time you let your finger off the trigger you will have to do another 0.2 second charge up to begin firing again, so users will have to choose between using up the magazine or stopping fire and becoming vulnerable for awhile as they attempt to start shooting again. Combine this with the fact that the rail rifle magazine is about a third smaller than the assault rifle, and it seems that at least mechanically you would want to have an assault rifle up close over a rail rifle any day. Now I'm still not sure if that makes up for the damage numbers, but again balancing statistics isn't really my thing.
Parson Atreides Ahrendee Mercenaries EoN. 817	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:39:00 - [329] - Quote Nerfed Swarm launcher damage by 1/3 and range by more than half. ********. -1
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 1512	Posted - 2013.10.25 16:42:00 - [330] - Quote Parson Atreides wrote: Nerfed Swarm launcher damage by 1/3 and range by more than half. Moronic. -1 lolcrutch user Get good and use teamwork



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