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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
850
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Posted - 2013.10.25 14:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:One thing you guys should be aware of is that the Rail Rifle (all variants) have a 0.2 second charge time before they start firing at full auto (so it goes charge -> fire -> fire, not charge -> fire -> charge -> fire)
That doesn't sound very reassuring, honestly.
I'm a Forge Gun user, and it's really easy to maneuver your charge time around cover.
This just means that the Rail Rifle get's to slightly delay popping out from cover before dealing more DPS than the current AR at a significantly longer range. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
851
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Posted - 2013.10.25 15:25:00 -
[2] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:
Rail Rifle operates like a Breach Assault Rifle with a Complex Damage Mod, higher RoF and MUCH longer range.
I'm just gonna put this here:
Rail Rifle should equal SMG DPS (383) at excellent 70-100m range.
Combat Rifle should be sub-AR DPS (400) at good 50-70m range.
AR should remain exactly as it is: 425DPS with 40m range.
I think we're going to end up in a long-term nerf cycle until the game gets stats roughly like this.
Hell, according to the chart, the Full-auto Combat Rifle has higher DPS (440!) than the blaster-based AR. That just ain't right. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
851
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Posted - 2013.10.25 15:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Shotty GoBang wrote:Disturbingly Bored wrote:
(1) Rail Rifle should equal SMG DPS (383) at excellent 70-100m range.
(2) AR should remain exactly as it is: 425DPS with 40m range.
(1) Looks beastly at range. How would you see it limited up-close? (2) Devastating at range. Devastating up-close. A Jack or Master of all Trades?
If you think 383 is beastly at range, you're going to have a field day with the rail rifle as proposed.
It's set to do 430 DPS at 70-100km, which is more DPS than the current AR. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
853
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Posted - 2013.10.25 15:50:00 -
[4] - Quote
Just to be clear, the stats as proposed give you the choice of:
Amazing DPS at amazing range. (Rail.)
Fantastic DPS at good range. (Combat.)
Good DPS at okay range. (Assault Rifle.)
PEOPLE ALREADY COMPLAIN ABOUT THE ASSAULT RIFLE.
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Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
853
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Posted - 2013.10.25 16:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Beren Hurin wrote:
I think the RoF inside of bursts is shown. What we don't know is how fast can you fire bursts. My guess is that it can't be much faster than a Scr. So rather than getting 20 rounds per second, its probably 25% to 30% less or so. Also with the combat rifle, you'd effectively get only 18 shots in a clip since the bursts are automatic. That shouldn't be overlooked.
Beren, I am only referring to the full-auto combat rifle in my numbers and analysis. The Burst version may very well be okay.
But when you start comparing full-auto weapons to full-auto weapons and the normal AR, the new full-auto rifles look like they're going to be annoying FOTM right away. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
853
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Posted - 2013.10.25 17:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
Theresa Rohk wrote:
a .02 charge up time is pretty significant, as is the seizure mechanic on the scrambler, so I expect the gun is pretty well balanced around that to offset its better stats.
Have faith, and wait until you see the gun in action before saying its unbalanced.
.02 charge up time is not even remotely significant. Look at the post immediately above yours:
Aero Yassavi wrote:On second thought, mechanically I believe my point is valid, but just how long is 0.2 seconds? http://a.bestmetronome.com/Turn the metronome to tempo 300, that is 0.2 seconds between each beat. Spool up time probably needs to increase quite a bit.
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Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
853
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Posted - 2013.10.25 17:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:
0.2 seconds guys, not .02 seconds. There is a major difference. Tempo 300 does represent 0.2 seconds between beats though. Also, though it may not seem like much while listening, that is even time for an AR to fire two shots (with time to spare).
My bad, you're correct about the timing.
The issue with the gun, however, is not that the AR comes out slightly ahead in a straight up fight.
It's that it matches the AR pretty close in a straight up fight, and has 75% longer optimal range.
That kind of range should come with a significant DPS reduction. The SMG still kills with it's tiny range, having the rail rifle's DPS brought down to SMG levels does not seem like an extreme reduction at all.
As it stands, it has potentially higher DPS than the AR while totally spanking it in the range department. The game doesn't need new ARs on steroids. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
853
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Posted - 2013.10.25 17:55:00 -
[8] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:No, the 0.2 charge Time will nerf it in close engagements.
No, it won't nerf it.
See? I supported my argument as well as you did.
...
Now let me try to be more civil. I honestly hope you're correct, but I doubt it.
The clip size is not small enough to counteract just holding the trigger and ignoring the 0.2 penalty. And you assume two people meet each other and start firing at the same time, while the vast majority of firefights start asymmetrically.
A smart player with a Rail Rifle is simply more cautious about what battles he fights. If he can negate the 0.2 penalty by firing first, he wins. |
Disturbingly Bored
The Strontium Asylum
854
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Posted - 2013.10.25 19:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Aero Yassavi wrote:You also assume that during engagements you never let go of the trigger. From what I remember back when I didn't have a scrambler rifle, and what I see from streams and youtube videos, engagements with the AR usually always result in a seize fire at least once before the kill is made, so that's another moment the rail rifle has to charge up for 0.2 seconds.
Quick note off topic: I did see the math, and there's a respectable argument there. You're the best rail proponent I've seen about backing up your arguments. Thanks for that.
On topic: I'd argue that if I was in the habit of using the Rail Rifle, I most definitely would not let go of the trigger. I'd learn to deal with the recoil while aiming from the hip.
Now... it begs the questions, what will the recoil be like? If it kicks like a mule, then it may well be balanced both in CQC and at range. (Need to take your finger off full-auto to readjust your aim, which reduces the very high DPS.)
I hate it, but we'll have to wait and see. Comparing numbers to numbers, however, the Rail looks it out-competes in all categories.
TOTAL SIDE NOTE: Since there's going to be a bunch of long range rifles in the game, can we increase the Laser Rifle's range, please? 
Or at least remove the minimum effective distance? |
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