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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3466
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Posted - 2013.10.25 07:23:00 -
[1] - Quote
This is somewhat alarming, actually... The Assault Rail Rifle outperforms -EVERYTHING- else in terms of Damage and Range. I don't see any reason to continue using the Assault Rifle when it doesn't even do what it's supposed to anymore: High damage in close quarters combat.
Comparable Level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest DPS:
SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 458.6
GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 446.25
CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 444.7
8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 440
Comparable level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest Optimal Range:
SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 72 meters
CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 55 meters
8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 50 meters
GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 44 meters
Comparable level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest Effective Range:
SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 94 meters
CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 83 meters
8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 77 meters
GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 72 meters |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3471
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Posted - 2013.10.25 07:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Grimmiers wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:This is somewhat alarming, actually... The Assault Rail Rifle outperforms -EVERYTHING- else in terms of Damage and Range. I don't see any reason to continue using the Assault Rifle when it doesn't even do what it's supposed to anymore: High damage in close quarters combat.
Comparable Level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest DPS:
-Stuff
Well I was going to wait and see how the rail rifle's rof and .2 second charge up time will balance it out for cqc fights. As of now it does seem like the rail rifle plays like the op breach rifle back in the day.
Take a look at the Plasma Cannon with it's 0.6 charge-up time and you'll change your mind, lol.
0.2 seconds is nothing, the human eye blinks at a speed of 0.4 seconds. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3473
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Posted - 2013.10.25 08:00:00 -
[3] - Quote
Rogue Saint wrote:CCP Wolfman wrote:
- Reduced Swarm Launcher lock-on range from 400m to 175m
DS pilots should be wooting at this! Personally I wouldn't change the lock-on range.
Makes sense though... The easiest weapons to use shouldn't do the highest damage. As far as skill input is concerned the plasma cannon should do more damage than the Forge Gun. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3474
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Posted - 2013.10.25 08:12:00 -
[4] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Those numbers dont strike me as particularly odd.
We should stay cautious regarding the DPS stats as we all know the guns behavior is a major factor in how effective a gun is. Also, we dont have the accuracy rating for those new rifles. And we all know how the DPS from the machine gun seems appealing at first..
So yeah. Wait and see.
Just saying, if the Rail Rifle is based on the Breach Rifle it's going to have a better hip fire accuracy than the Assault Rifle - which means a lot less reliance on the scope, making the Iron-Sighted Assault Rail Rifle superb in the close quarters field because you can stay mobile and stay on target simultaneously. It's seems like it's a better jack of all trades than our current Assault Rifle.
I don't think I need to remind everyone how Tactical Assault Rifles were at Hip-Fire not too long ago. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3477
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Posted - 2013.10.25 09:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
TechMechMeds wrote:Kaze Eyrou wrote:Ah yes. This post will do fine. I love how everyone disregarded the charge up time for the new rail rifle...  I know right, as if the fact the guns aren't even out yet doesn't make the QQ pointless enough already, its bad QQ set in open flat plains.
It's a pointless endeavor being as the charge time is half the time it takes the human eye to blink. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3481
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Posted - 2013.10.25 13:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:Fizzer94 wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:Those numbers dont strike me as particularly odd.
We should stay cautious regarding the DPS stats as we all know the guns behavior is a major factor in how effective a gun is. Also, we dont have the accuracy rating for those new rifles. And we all know how the DPS from the machine gun seems appealing at first..
So yeah. Wait and see.
That may be so, but let's look at the rail rifle. It has a very long range on it. If it's particularly inaccurate, it's not going to effective at that range. If it's accurate enough to take advantage of that range, it outperforms most other weapons. My guess is that its hipfire isn't too great, or the aiming speed while ADS suffer greatly. A combination of both seems likely as well. This seems the most plausible prediction to me, and also unscoped rotation rate may suffer a bit too. Looking at the apparently soft stats of the combat rifles i'd expect them to be on the top of the hipfire/rotation rate heap. Ofc there will be balancing passes, but given what we're being presented with here it's looking like the racial weapon profiles will be sufficiently distinct that they all have their own 'personalities' and domains, and that there are multiple interesting factors to balance for situational weapon selection. It's what wasn't in Wolfman's tables that will make the difference here. Lastly, o7 Wolfman. The opportunity for analysis and feedback is appreciated.
Given that the Breach Assault Rifle has increased hip fire accuracy, I'd say it's a stretch to assume that the Rail Rifle, being based on the Breach AR, is going to have reduced hip fire accuracy.
Edit: I'd also like to mention that if we are provided with some videos showing how the weapons operate we can avoid the necessity of a balance pass early on and help CCP get it right the first time instead of having to waste resources/time going back to fix a screw up that could have been avoided. Unlikely though as this is what the CPM is apparently having problems getting CCP to understand in the first place. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3483
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Posted - 2013.10.25 14:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:One thing you guys should be aware of is that the Rail Rifle (all variants) have a 0.2 second charge time before they start firing at full auto (so it goes charge -> fire -> fire, not charge -> fire -> charge -> fire)
Was afraid of that... |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3483
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Posted - 2013.10.25 14:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:CCP Logibro wrote:One thing you guys should be aware of is that the Rail Rifle (all variants) have a 0.2 second charge time before they start firing at full auto (so it goes charge -> fire -> fire, not charge -> fire -> charge -> fire) That doesn't sound very reassuring, honestly. I'm a Forge Gun user, and it's really easy to maneuver your charge time around cover. This just means that the Rail Rifle get's to slightly delay popping out from cover before dealing more DPS than the current AR at a significantly longer range. ED: From the math I'm punching based on the tables, the Rail Rifle is basically a Chromosome Assault Rifle with slightly higher DPS.
That 0.2 second charge time is so miniscule it's not going to matter at all. Plasma Cannon has 0.6 but that doesn't stop it from landing kills on infantry, even with the flight time. Now we have this direct fire weapon with an optimal range of 70+ meters that does more DPS than the weapon that's SUPPOSED to have the highest (Assault Rifle).
Rail Rifle operates like a Breach Assault Rifle with a Complex Damage Mod, higher RoF and MUCH longer range.
That being said, I tried it out this morning and went 34/3 and that's using hip-fire primarily, out-strafing my targets. It's going to be god-mode for people that have half-decent aim.
But, you know, I'll reserve my thoughts until I see it in action but I would LOVE to see a video of it's usage before it goes live so we can at least point at it and say "It's ******* OP, fix it" before it starts some three month long Flavor of the Season |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3483
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Posted - 2013.10.25 15:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Disturbingly Bored wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:
Rail Rifle operates like a Breach Assault Rifle with a Complex Damage Mod, higher RoF and MUCH longer range.
I'm just gonna put this here: Rail Rifle should equal SMG DPS (383) at excellent 70-100m range. Combat Rifle should be sub-AR DPS (400) at good 50-70m range. AR should remain exactly as it is: 425DPS with 40m range. I think we're going to end up in a long-term nerf cycle until the game gets stats roughly like this. Hell, according to the chart, the Full-auto Combat Rifle has higher DPS (440!) than the blaster-based AR. That just ain't right.
I'd even go so far as to say that the AR needs a bit more kick for it's range considering that the other rifles are so damned similar in DPS values. At Close Range, if two weapons have the same DPS - Rate of Fire usually wins simply because you can put more rounds down range and have more room for error in accuracy. This is why the Assault Rifle oftens comes out the victor when in combat against Breach Rifles - and yes, I know overall DPS plays a lot into it but DPS is assuming that all the rounds hit. Three moderately damage rounds can do a lot more overall damage than one high damage round. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3484
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Posted - 2013.10.25 17:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
SHANN da MAN wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Grimmiers wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:This is somewhat alarming, actually... The Assault Rail Rifle outperforms -EVERYTHING- else in terms of Damage and Range. I don't see any reason to continue using the Assault Rifle when it doesn't even do what it's supposed to anymore: High damage in close quarters combat.
Comparable Level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest DPS:
-Stuff
Well I was going to wait and see how the rail rifle's rof and .2 second charge up time will balance it out for cqc fights. As of now it does seem like the rail rifle plays like the op breach rifle back in the day. Take a look at the Plasma Cannon with it's 0.6 charge-up time and you'll change your mind, lol. 0.2 seconds is nothing, the human eye blinks at a speed of 0.4 seconds. Blink speed is actually 0.004 seconds on average ... Average Blink Speed
The human eye can only register 1/60th of a second (I know this from photography and the basic fact that anything over 60 FPS in a video is going faster than the human eye can visibly see) so, by your logic, I should be able to blink faster than my eye can visibly see the shift.
Let me try.
Nope, can still see that I did, in fact, blink for the brief darkness that enshrouded my vision.
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Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3484
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Posted - 2013.10.25 17:52:00 -
[11] - Quote
CharCharOdell wrote:Disturbingly Bored wrote:Aero Yassavi wrote:
0.2 seconds guys, not .02 seconds. There is a major difference. Tempo 300 does represent 0.2 seconds between beats though. Also, though it may not seem like much while listening, that is even time for an AR to fire two shots (with time to spare).
My bad, you're correct about the timing. The issue with the gun, however, is not that the AR comes out slightly ahead in a straight up fight. It's that it matches the AR pretty close in a straight up fight, and has 75% longer optimal range. That kind of range should come with a significant DPS reduction. The SMG still kills with it's tiny range, having the rail rifle's DPS brought down to SMG levels does not seem like an extreme reduction at all. As it stands, it has potentially higher DPS than the AR while totally spanking it in the range department. The game doesn't need new ARs on steroids. No, the 0.2 charge Time will nerf it in close engagements.
Think you guys are -drastically- over estimating this 0.2 seconds business... It might as well not even be there it's so short... |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3494
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Posted - 2013.10.26 06:36:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mordecai Sanguine wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:This is somewhat alarming, actually... The Assault Rail Rifle outperforms -EVERYTHING- else in terms of Damage and Range. I don't see any reason to continue using the Assault Rifle when it doesn't even do what it's supposed to anymore: High damage in close quarters combat.
Comparable Level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest DPS:
SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 458.6
GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 446.25
CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 444.7
8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 440
Comparable level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest Optimal Range:
SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 72 meters
CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 55 meters
8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 50 meters
GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 44 meters
Comparable level Assault Variant Rifles, in order from highest to lowest Effective Range:
SL-4 Assault Rail Rifle: 94 meters
CRD-9 Assault Scrambler Rifle: 83 meters
8K-42 Assault Combat Rifle: 77 meters
GEK-38 Assault Rifle: 72 meters Rail rifle will certainely get a higher Recoil so a lot of shot will bem issed. I hope.
I'm skeptical about it, really. Higher recoil kinda makes sense for a short range weapon but it doesn't make that much sense for a long range weapon - especially if it's intent is to be fully automatic. It sort of negates the premise of it being a long range weapon. Being based on the breach rifle it's going to have a higher hip-fire accuracy so the recoil might just help it out in CQC. Won't know until we see it and by that point, if I'm correct in my assumptions, it'll be the Flavor of the Month. I don't think any of us are ready to deal with yet another OP weapon that persists for months until CCP up and decides to not be stubborn and actually fix something.
Lv2spd2 wrote:
Thanks to the .2 second charge time, that Assault rail will really only do 366.4 in the 1st second it is firing. the 2nd second and each additional second will do the dmg you listed though. That will put the rail user in an 79.85 or so hp hole to the GEK user if they are both in range and hit fire at the same time. Which they will then gain back at around 12.35 hp per second after that. So it would take the Rail user 6.46 seconds of continuous hits to make back up.
This means the GEK user will likely still rock the rail user within AR range, unless they let the rail get the drop on them.
In fact, ALL the other rifle variants listed here will easily top the rail rifle except outside their ranges or if the rail user starts firing .2 seconds before they do. Even the lowly combat rifle listed will out damage the rail by 73.6 which the rail will make back up in 3.95 seconds.
You're assuming that all fights occur with both fighters firing at the same time - this almost never happens. There are too many variables to take into account, whether or not one person saw the other, personal reaction time, network connection, etc.
It's always best to assume that one is going to get the jump on the other and in the case of the Rail Rifle having damage as high as it is, that first second isn't going to mean much when both parties start moving around to evade fire streams. The higher damage per round with increased hip fire accuracy that comes with it being based on the Breach AR is going to make it an insanely good CQC weapon, I think, solely because of the fact that you can remain mobile and put more rounds on target without needing to use your sights. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3495
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Posted - 2013.10.26 10:34:00 -
[13] - Quote
Godin Thekiller wrote:
And there aren't any ADV and proto tanks anymore, just std with proto turrets or a specialized standard tank- enforcer.
There's never been PROTO HAV's in the first place, for Adv. either. Just STD. Also, fixed  [/quote]
There was never a need for tier-based vehicles, the role-based ones served their purpose pretty well (well... Marauders at least..)
Godin Thekiller wrote:
I promise you the RR is going to have **** hipfire. High recoil will make that true.
I doubt it, honestly. Submachine Gun has some pretty crazy recoil unless you skill into it and it does pretty damage well at hitting it's target despite having a large hip-fire spread.
Another thing is that if it has high recoil it's going to be less efficient at the longer ranges it's meant for, so until we see some gameplay video showing what it's like there's not much we can do but speculate. I would -like- it to be well balanced but all we have as fact are these numbers, we can't base warning signs on assumption and speculation. |
Aeon Amadi
A.N.O.N.Y.M.O.U.S.
3495
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Posted - 2013.10.26 14:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
CCP Logibro wrote:The Rail Rifle in my experience has a fair bit of kick to it. I'll talk to CCP Wolfman and see if we can get some footage of all four rifles firing a full clip without any input correction (player moving the trigger to keep it on target).
Excellent. More of this, please. More photos, more videos, more all the good things ^_^ |
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