Feedback: the font on those charts... The 6s look like 8s.
Also, Combat Rifles look like they don't use much resources, even at prototype.

It seems the DPS on the Rail Rifles is about the same at the DPS on Blaster Rifles. I was expecting it to be lower as a tradeoff for its range. Maybe the RRs will kick pretty hard? Or maybe they will have the worst hipfire?

Probably a lower RoF since the breach was its placeholder.

Which brings up a question- what's the scope zoom going to be like on it?

Nice. So now advanced and proto tanks can stomp harder. Brilliant move.

Just when you think CCP are getting things right.

At least assault is getting more weapons to kill us heavies with.

Lets see if they ruin the forge gun like they ruined the HMG.

Oh I dunno, the 15 other infantry slaying players on your team seem a good countermeasure to me. Especially seeing as the swarm player is basically defenseless against infantry slayers and can also be insta killed by any vehicle if in range. And lest not forget about all those hills and buildings tankers like to hide behind, nullifying any and all swarms.

Now if every player could dual wield a swarm and their favorite light or heavy weapon, then yeah you might have an argument. But no, that's not the case, you just want tank ez mode and portray yourself as a victim so you get buffed and AV gets nerfed .


Nerfing AV at all in anticipation of the tank changes is the worst possible idea. You guys get invincible mode back, and AV gets nerfed? Even though we currently need proto AV to adequately scare off, and sometimes blow up, well fit STD tanks? lol.

Those numbers dont strike me as particularly odd.

We should stay cautious regarding the DPS stats as we all know the guns behavior is a major factor in how effective a gun is. Also, we dont have the accuracy rating for those new rifles. And we all know how the DPS from the machine gun seems appealing at first..

So yeah. Wait and see.

lolcrutch user

Get good and use teamwork

Wait, the MD is supposed to be an AV weapon?!?

It'll probably be put back once they figure out what's up with rendering. Or it might not. I always thought 250m was perfect though. 175 does seem a little short.

The Rail Rifle in my experience has a fair bit of kick to it. I'll talk to CCP Wolfman and see if we can get some footage of all four rifles firing a full clip without any input correction (player moving the trigger to keep it on target).

1: I am a DS person, just that they cost too much for the said reason

2: I kill HAV's easy with my Wiki swarms, and will continue to do so with these changes. Why? Simple: I will just sneak up on the HAV, and pop it as I have been. If I can' t do it by myself, I'll get another guy to help me. It's not like they are that strong, especially with the changes made to them.

Lastly, as part of the ongoing vehicle work I can confirm we are also making changes to AV. So far weGÇÖve touched the AV Grenades and Swarm Launcher, we do also plan to look at the Forge Gun. These are the current numbers we are testing:

- Reduced AV grenade damage (STD: 1050 -> 725; ADV: 1260 -> 870; PRO: 1470->1015 )
- Reduced swarm launcher damage (330 -> 220)
- Reduced Swarm Launcher lock-on range from 400m to 175m

WeGÇÖre looking forward to hearing your feedback!

CCP Wolfman

BOO. ****ING. HOO. Now you'll need to be within render distance to completely murder a tank.

So maybe have a friend to help you out, or hit it while the hardeners are down?

Except this won't be the case. I have to emphasize the following here :

HP, Burst Tanking, and Decreased Effectiveness of Infantry Slaying Turrets
1. Tanks have lower HP than they did before
2. There's far more reliance on active modules in order to "tank" any sort of significant damage
3. Finite Ammo means Tanks have to take their focus away from infantry slaying at multiple points in order to resupply

AV will still be fulfilling its role by creating areas where the Tank can't effectively pass without taking significant damage, you don't need to kill the Tank in order to ensure that its effectiveness in the match is decreased. More so than that, and I mentioned this in my last post, but balancing AV with respect to ONLY tanks creates the situation that we have now in which Tanks are the only vehicle worth calling out in the middle of a match. I think we can both agree that Dropships are far too fragile in their current state and the LAV class of vehicles is near useless outside of Militia/BPO for transport and the Logistics class for exploiting its insane base resistances.

In order to incentivize the use of AV against vehicles though I think it'd be nice to see the return of WP awarded for doing a sufficient amount of damage to Tanks. If dedicated AV won't be getting the majority of their points from killing tanks then I think it'd be nice if they got rewarded for doing enough to deter them.

175m is way outside of any blaster range (I use stabilized, so I know), and that's when rendering starts to **** up. Plus, before, you could keep dropships out of the battle from most objectives with the range they had. now, you can only do one. Still think 250m is better, but unless they make the rendering work so I can see you shooting at me, then 175 it is.

Adapt or die

But I can't wait to see a Forgegun nerf. Why would you punish swarms so bad and leave that annoying thing alone? I mean, it's good against tanks, but too good against dropships. Plus, it can kill infantry!! Swarms cannot.

But WHAT ABOUT FORGEGUNS??? why not reduce their range or at least make a drastic (i mean drastic) damage reduction over distance?

Our aim and hit detection plus rendering makes our range about the same, so no. Plus, the health is a non-factor when AV comes into play, in which many people has at least to adv. at this point. Plus, we lose most of our mobility for the speed, and we become giant targets, so that one doesn't count. ANd for CAldari HAV's, all you need is 3 fluxes and a breach MD, and it's gone, your're just not creative enough to think of that. There's lots more combo's that you can do too. Lastly, What bonuses do we get? WE risk several games worth of ISK for what? SO we can be the biggest and baddest things on the field. And that's what's happening. Bye bye AR514, hello Dust 514. The mixture era is about to start SOONtm, and it's all thanks to the Saint Wolfman. SUCK IT.

Summing up this entire thread quicklyGǪ.

Tanks get GÇ£alteredGÇ¥ Post GÇô
AVGÇÖers GÇô HAHAHHA we win we win, stewpid tanks!
Tankers GÇôWe donGÇÖt want much just a chance to play our class.

AVGÇÖs get GÇ£alteredGÇ¥ Post GÇô
AVGÇÖers GÇô WAAAAAAA not fair WAAAAAAAA, someone change my diaper WAAAAAAA
Tankers- I think this will balance everything out rather nicely.

Oh I dunno, the 15 other infantry slaying players on your team seem a good countermeasure to me. Especially seeing as the swarm player is basically defenseless against infantry slayers and can also be insta killed by any vehicle if in range. And lest not forget about all those hills and buildings tankers like to hide behind, nullifying any and all swarms.

Now if every player could dual wield a swarm and their favorite light or heavy weapon, then yeah you might have an argument. But no, that's not the case, you just want tank ez mode and portray yourself as a victim so you get buffed and AV gets nerfed .


Nerfing AV at all in anticipation of the tank changes is the worst possible idea. You guys get invincible mode back, and AV gets nerfed? Even though we currently need proto AV to adequately scare off, and sometimes blow up, well fit STD tanks? lol.