Hi guys,

ItGÇÖs time for some stats! Before you dive in to them let me remind you these are still a work in progress

First off there has been a fair bit of speculation surrounding the upcoming Combat Rifle and Rail Rifle. Speculate no more, for here are their current stats:

[img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/65248/1/riflestats17.jpg[/img]

As a part of their introduction to the game we also plan to rejig the rifle range profiles in line with the weapon type. Rail Rifles are hybrid GÇô railgun tech and are therefore the longest range weapons in the game, followed by laser weapons, projectile weapons and then hybrid GÇô blaster weapons. In the chart below you can see how they stack up Vs one another:

[img]http://web.ccpgamescdn.com/dust/news.control/65234/1/rifleranges17.jpg[/img]

Lastly, as part of the ongoing vehicle work I can confirm we are also making changes to AV. So far weGÇÖve touched the AV Grenades and Swarm Launcher, we do also plan to look at the Forge Gun. These are the current numbers we are testing:

- Reduced AV grenade damage (STD: 1050 -> 725; ADV: 1260 -> 870; PRO: 1470->1015 )
- Reduced swarm launcher damage (330 -> 220)
- Reduced Swarm Launcher lock-on range from 400m to 175m

WeGÇÖre looking forward to hearing your feedback!

CCP Wolfman

delta all they have done is release the damage values for the swarms and the changes in lock-on time and range. no one has mentioned the new clip size or if the proto swarms carry more than 6 missiles per volley. you seemed pretty happy when they released the stats for the new vehicle system as tanks will be inherently weaker to your av win button . it has been too easy to break a tank for too long and now they are evening out the field you are getting upset. I personally welcome all the new changes and look forward to putting them into practice and seeing the actual results before I do what you are doing i.e. crying because win button is taken away.

Nice. So now advanced and proto tanks can stomp harder. Brilliant move.

Just when you think CCP are getting things right.

At least assault is getting more weapons to kill us heavies with.

Lets see if they ruin the forge gun like they ruined the HMG.

Even a militia tank costs more than a protoswarm suit.

You and ppl like leukopuss must be absolutely balling your little eyes out, months of spouting complete horse s*** hasn't paid off, now you can cry and kick all you like CCP never changes its mind once it states stuff like this.

Sadly you irrational pole smokers can't see how good these changes really are, when both sides hate the outcome the negotiator has done his job.

you guys think its ok to take 30% damage off of the swarm launcher? really? thats stupid.....and really not doing anything to the Forge....whatever.....

I got bigger problems like my damn mic needing me to log in and out before it works..

but honestly the Forge gun is the most OVER powered item in this game, and overlooking that is a bigger problem here Im not gonna be too grumpy because I pretty much stopped using my proto swarms anyway because nobody drives any thing but basic vehicles anymore anyway

If you asked a vehicle guy what the worst OP weapon is for them and they will say FOrge....with a few second charge you can deal 3000+ damage...almost 1.4 full clips of proto swarm to equal that..at the new numbers no sence...

ill just use the Forge more,

I gotta sayTaking 30% damage off of something that someone put millions of sp into kinda sucks...

Before anybody gets grumpy about this...remember....

You could have your SP into Vehicles in the first place..then you should be grumpy.

If there is a vehicle SP reset which there could be considering the change in the skill tree....I have one word of advice...take ALL those points and put em into an AR Logi.....unless you find the need to get some proto gear on your basic vehicle for the next 8 months..

1: I am a DS person, just that they cost too much for the said reason

2: I kill HAV's easy with my Wiki swarms, and will continue to do so with these changes. Why? Simple: I will just sneak up on the HAV, and pop it as I have been. If I can' t do it by myself, I'll get another guy to help me. It's not like they are that strong, especially with the changes made to them.

Looks like I'm late to this party....as usual.

Anyway please CCP..consider this.....the health of logi lavs and HAVs. How could you put the hammer on AV nades and SL lock on distance? A LAV will be able to simply drive out of range before we will be able to lock on it. Even if we get one shot on it...logi lavs will eat that proto swarm launcher and keep it moving. Packed AV nades were a joke against lavs (especially logi lavs)...now you're making the proto av nade weaker than a current packed AV nade?? Where is the sense in that? I need you guys to play this game when you guys are considering nerfing things.

Have you guys played this game where a tank just sits on a hill (that you guys allow because of the design of these maps) and rails down on objectives? How will we be able to scare him off of the redline now? Now, you're making it so only heavies can attack vehicles...but what if there aren't any in the game? We will just have to die aimlessly then, huh?

I'd rather you give the tanks more health or more effective modules for survivability then to remove our only ways to defend ourselves. I mean, seriously.....proto AV nades 1000hp??? What will that do for tanks and lavs with armor and shield resistance? Some logi lavs still had shields after 3 Lai Dai Packed nades hit them....how will we defend ourselves against them now?

This is the only game where you have to go AV OR Assault. AV nades are going to be a joke against a good tank now and SLs just the same. But for assault class, the SL is our best defense and we can't even use a SL with our primary weapon....which leaves us vulnerable to infantry. It will require 3 or 4 assaults at the same time to take a tank out...and now, all the tanks have to do is run a few meters.

This is another bad idea, CCP...horrible, in fact. You guys don't ever compromise...it is always one extreme or the other. And that is terrible practice as far as balancing a game is concerned.

Would recalling the tank, then calling in a new one reset the ammo count?

If yes, what is stopping the tanker from hightailing an empty tank to his redline and replenishing the ammo that way?

This is a team based game but you dont need team work to drive a tank or to increase its offensive ability or defensive ability in anyway, please explain how "This is team based" holds up under that?
And since the obvious thing to mention is small turrets Ill counter that right now, small turrets will be removable which is something many tank drivers have been asking for and is the first thing many plan to remove thus negating even the illusion of a good tank requiring teamwork to operate

touching AV is a big mistake, CCP Wolfman

I attack tanks closer than 50m all the time. Tankers never use 3rd person, so if you come up behind them they don't know you're there unless you get scanned. Pop 3 advanced AV grenades on him once his hardeners are down and follow up with a swarm, and they start running for cover. As long as you've picked an ambush location that doesn't have cover nearby he's toast, thanks to the nearly infinite lock range.

I kill madrugars like this several times a week...with a militia swarm launcher.

All the QQ from the duvolle AR users who are upset about their favorite weapon not being the best at all ranges is pure gold. Yeah...you skilled into a close range weapon. You can't just run straight across a field anymore like you're some kind of god, big deal. Learn a thing or two from the shotgun users and get close to the rail rifle guy, he won't stand a chance.

Well the swarm launcher Nerf and AV Nerf... It will be just like in the beta with 4 tanks and now assault drop-ships to deal with too... seems you want to have the actual infantry removed from game. With no real way to counteract these. That is without everyone in tanks and drop-ships... Sounds like a game called EVE... where is this FPS heading...


Well i guess now we will be wearing forge guns... Till they get nerfed....

As a proto swarm user I find that the proposed changes are a joke and is only a gift to all users of vehicles. I have seen the damage cut from 350 per missile to 330, the removal of dumb-fireing & the internal magazine cut to 3 flights. It is shear stupidity to cut the range of an anti-armour missile launcher. swarm lanuncher already have to ambush Hav's as their guns have greater range and damage. You should try to copy current anti-armour systems which have better range and damage potential than in game weapons.

You keep using those words, I do not think they mean what you think they mean
It would only be a double standard if I said you needed two tankers to take out a single player with AV and please point out where I said that and not that it should take one player to take out one player

Oh and since "Waaah isk cost" is something that gets trotted out Ill just say that all that isk cost buys you more health, more speed, more attack range, and resistance to most weapons with only 3 able to harm you in any practical sort of way and with two of those being specialized to only be effective on vehicles they damn well better actually be effective against them in a meaningful way, none of this "Herp derp they dropped my shields, Id better switch on my modules and drive away"

You know its funny, you guys freak out that swarms lock on and call it a crutch but then I look at all the bonuses tanks have while still retaining versatility while the swarm is good at one thing and one thing only and I have to wonder, who has the bigger crutch?

Prove your ranges are worse, pull up the stats of a blaster and compare its optimal and effective ranges to infantry weapons, you beat everything but sniper rifles forges and swarms, that and tanks hiding in the red line with rail guns kills your "We dont have better range"
Speed is speed so it still counts even if you arent turning on a dime, grasp those straws
Also read the word "practical" can a tank be taken out with grenades and a MD yes but its not practical due to how squishy a suit is and the range of the engagement, its like saying a normal guy can enter a body building competition, doable but not practical so there goes that counter

As for all your last stuff it just sounds like a defense of the pay to win model to me, if thats what you want there are plenty of other games that will let you throw money at them to overcome your lack of ability, you wont even need 6 months of tears

We should call you ostrich with all that time you spend with your head in the sand, also you should petition for dumb fire swarms since you cry about them so much
Hell I would even sign that since if you give me direct fire I wont have to worry about them hitting the ground or rocks or walls and what have you and could get you to cry even more about them

And since I know its coming because you also cry about guys on roof tops, if you were actually a decent tanker you would be shooting down dropships at the start of a match and then you wouldnt have to worry about them, hell if they are desperate to get up there you could be farming dropships for a match
I know Ive done it myself a few times and no more worrying about forge gunners on rooftops

Honestly Im surprised most tank drivers havent figured that out since even including the angle limitations on the turrets there are a lot of areas that let you angle up by driving on them

Which is why I didn't mention the damage nerf.

Here is my feedback.

1. Stop using the nerf hammer, use the nerf screwdriver; i.e. do gradual tweaks.
2. Swarm launchers are being hammered into uselessness. Sure the lock on range could have used a nerf but not by this margin. I don't think there was a need to reduce the damage by 33%. Reducing the clip size from 5 to 3 was fair enough IMO.

It shouldn't take teamwork to kill one player. No matter his isk involved. It offsets teams and ruins infantry gameplay

Why should it be a 'game changing force multiplier'? Because you want it to be a win button?

Oh in that case please accept my apology, I didn't know vehicles were getting a HP nerf, just haven't looked into it yet. But regardless, I still feel the SL lock on range reduction is too great.

New Rifles look great but am concerned about the lock range nerf on swarms - with the speed of tanks let alone dropships and LAV's how to you envision it being possible to get more than one shot off on a target?