you guys think its ok to take 30% damage off of the swarm launcher? really? thats stupid.....and really not doing anything to the Forge....whatever.....

I got bigger problems like my damn mic needing me to log in and out before it works..

but honestly the Forge gun is the most OVER powered item in this game, and overlooking that is a bigger problem here Im not gonna be too grumpy because I pretty much stopped using my proto swarms anyway because nobody drives any thing but basic vehicles anymore anyway

If you asked a vehicle guy what the worst OP weapon is for them and they will say FOrge....with a few second charge you can deal 3000+ damage...almost 1.4 full clips of proto swarm to equal that..at the new numbers no sence...

ill just use the Forge more,

I gotta sayTaking 30% damage off of something that someone put millions of sp into kinda sucks...

Before anybody gets grumpy about this...remember....

You could have your SP into Vehicles in the first place..then you should be grumpy.

If there is a vehicle SP reset which there could be considering the change in the skill tree....I have one word of advice...take ALL those points and put em into an AR Logi.....unless you find the need to get some proto gear on your basic vehicle for the next 8 months..

Rail rifle will certainely get a higher Recoil so a lot of shot will bem issed.
I hope.

Thanks to the .2 second charge time, that Assault rail will really only do 366.4 in the 1st second it is firing. the 2nd second and each additional second will do the dmg you listed though. That will put the rail user in an 79.85 or so hp hole to the GEK user if they are both in range and hit fire at the same time. Which they will then gain back at around 12.35 hp per second after that. So it would take the Rail user 6.46 seconds of continuous hits to make back up.

This means the GEK user will likely still rock the rail user within AR range, unless they let the rail get the drop on them.

In fact, ALL the other rifle variants listed here will easily top the rail rifle except outside their ranges or if the rail user starts firing .2 seconds before they do. Even the lowly combat rifle listed will out damage the rail by 73.6 which the rail will make back up in 3.95 seconds.

not for 1.6 mostly, 1.6 still mostly a technical patch.

I'm skeptical about it, really. Higher recoil kinda makes sense for a short range weapon but it doesn't make that much sense for a long range weapon - especially if it's intent is to be fully automatic. It sort of negates the premise of it being a long range weapon. Being based on the breach rifle it's going to have a higher hip-fire accuracy so the recoil might just help it out in CQC. Won't know until we see it and by that point, if I'm correct in my assumptions, it'll be the Flavor of the Month. I don't think any of us are ready to deal with yet another OP weapon that persists for months until CCP up and decides to not be stubborn and actually fix something.



You're assuming that all fights occur with both fighters firing at the same time - this almost never happens. There are too many variables to take into account, whether or not one person saw the other, personal reaction time, network connection, etc.

It's always best to assume that one is going to get the jump on the other and in the case of the Rail Rifle having damage as high as it is, that first second isn't going to mean much when both parties start moving around to evade fire streams. The higher damage per round with increased hip fire accuracy that comes with it being based on the Breach AR is going to make it an insanely good CQC weapon, I think, solely because of the fact that you can remain mobile and put more rounds on target without needing to use your sights.

Good to see they nerfed the swarms by 1/3 of it's damage, I was struggling to kill rep tanks and now I dont even need to bother going after them. Rejoice armor tanks, you win.

Its minmatar.

Probably a lower RoF since the breach was its placeholder.

Which brings up a question- what's the scope zoom going to be like on it?

I know it has a lower ROF, but it dishes out damage just as fast as the AR. About 450 DPS at standard. This worries me. Here's hoping it has some sort of downside to make up for its range.

Swarm nerf is once again, way too large, way too fast. I can see a damage nerf, but the lock-on nerf? That pretty much renders dropships invincible and non-removable, and the same goes for sniper tanks behind redlines.

And there aren't any ADV and proto tanks anymore, just std with proto turrets or a specialized standard tank- enforcer.

leukoplast, I understand that you're worried about tanks potentially dominating everything as they did in the past. However, you have to look at this objectively. The HP potential of tanks has been reduced significantly, and notably the forge gun hasn't been nerfed. Even the plasma cannon may actually be a vaguely viable AV wepaon in the future.

so now with the new RR ranges us heavies have to compete against that now??
screw it, there's no winning against those odds, CCP you might as well remove the heavy class from this game seeing as we get nothing from you and now you want to mess with our FG? i love playing as a heavy but with these new weapon ranges coming out, 100 meters???? really??
just put us out of our misery, get rid of the heavy class and give me my respecs. or give us new heavy weapons already

Just saying, if the Rail Rifle is based on the Breach Rifle it's going to have a better hip fire accuracy than the Assault Rifle - which means a lot less reliance on the scope, making the Iron-Sighted Assault Rail Rifle superb in the close quarters field because you can stay mobile and stay on target simultaneously. It's seems like it's a better jack of all trades than our current Assault Rifle.

I don't think I need to remind everyone how Tactical Assault Rifles were at Hip-Fire not too long ago.

It'll probably be put back once they figure out what's up with rendering. Or it might not. I always thought 250m was perfect though. 175 does seem a little short.

And there aren't any ADV and proto tanks anymore, just std with proto turrets or a specialized standard tank- enforcer.

I promise you the RR is going to have **** hipfire. High recoil will make that true.

(...)The new Rifles : Hmm this hard I really don't like what ccp did here instead of unique roles in terms of dps and range ccp gives all rifles insane dps and tries to balance that with some sort of game mechanic. That reallly worries me. If you look at the dsp rating they are pretty close apart from the railrifle the difference is just 6 dps from AR to CR, while the RR outshines all others. But if you look at the range the difference becomes quite noticeable so the lowest range AR has basicla the same or lower dps than the longer range rifles. I dont think this will work well balance wise . Especially when the longest range weapon also get the highest dps...

I think the AR should get the dps from the RR
The RR the dps from the CR and the CR the dps of the current AR (even with this change the RR would be quite powerfull)

The Duvolle AR will have delivered 90+ damage before the Ishukone Assault RR has finished charging up. So I'd say the 480.5 DPS potential of the Ishukone Assault RR are not that much of an advantage - if at all - over the Duvolle ARs 467.5 DPS (-13 DPS).

Like I said earlier, in close range fights the AR will most likely still be superior. But outside of the ARs optimal the RR will have an advantage. So, working as intended.

EDIT: I included a 'damage after 1 second' stat in my rifle comparison spreadsheet, so you can see for yourself: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkgH4oyiFeUAdFpjQW0wRExKazF6empxY0R2Rm9iV3c&usp=sharing

I do not question a slight advantage but what I question is if this very slight advantage is enough compared to the huge range advantage of the RR. IMHO the dps of the current AR is not enough compared to the other assault rifles if you consider the Range where these weapons are effective. A signifivicant disadvantage in range should come with a signicant bonus to dps.

The Rail Rifle in my experience has a fair bit of kick to it. I'll talk to CCP Wolfman and see if we can get some footage of all four rifles firing a full clip without any input correction (player moving the trigger to keep it on target).