So, i heard from a dev confirmation that today they want to REMOVE the sp cap entirely. Reducing the AFK SP earned and keeping the 1 WP = 1 SP deal.

Just thought you guys would like to know about what i consider to be a giant mistake. Say hello to Dust 247. Where no life teenage grinders from all around the world are kings.

[CCP]nothinwe're removing the skill cap today at downtime if all goes well

True story as per CCP Nothing. They are 'Trying it out'.

Terrible way to start things off.

This....wow.

Wow.

No way, it has to be a prank >_<

And what's worse, is they basically have to keep it that way. Letting all these people in, good luck trying to force them back into a reasonable rate of SP.

Wtf, this has to be a joke, SP gains were almost perfect. Getting ready to be pissed.

Nothing like being punished for having responsibilities outside of DUST

best idea ever actually.
you get sp how much you play. problem solved.

best idea ever actually.
you get sp how much you play. problem solved.

(2:46:50 AM) [CCP]nothin: harro
(2:46:56 AM) RolyatDerTeufel: o/
(2:47:20 AM) [CCP]nothin: who hates the daily cap?
(2:47:28 AM) [CCP]nothin: o/
(2:47:55 AM) RolyatDerTeufel: It sucks being required to play everyday or i miss out yes. but I don't really mind it :P
(2:48:10 AM) ishneyk2: ^
(2:48:33 AM) RolyatDerTeufel: why do you ask nothin?
(2:48:47 AM) [CCP]nothin: because we're about to try out removing the cap entirely
(2:49:01 AM) RolyatDerTeufel: ohhh.. hmmm
(2:49:21 AM) [CCP]nothin: we'll take down the battle skill gain amounts a bit as a precautionary measure though
(2:49:45 AM) RolyatDerTeufel: i was thinking what would keep it on the same pace kinda as it is now
(2:49:52 AM) [CCP]nothin: but, we'd like to get as much feedback as possible on it
(2:49:56 AM) RolyatDerTeufel: but yeahh sounds good to me :)
(2:49:57 AM) Bendtner92: That sounds interesting Nothin
(2:49:57 AM) [CCP]nothin: :)
(2:50:13 AM) [CCP]nothin: this'll be going live today
(2:50:18 AM) RolyatDerTeufel: always be gaining SP for any time you put into the game i like that alot :D
(2:50:18 AM) [CCP]nothin: (fingers crossed)
(2:50:20 AM) Bendtner92: How much are decreasing SP output?
(2:50:34 AM) [CCP]nothin: we're taking down the SP you get from time a bit
(2:50:43 AM) [CCP]nothin: you'll still get 1 SP per 1 WP
(2:50:44 AM) RolyatDerTeufel: you should really make Thread for feedback on it.
(2:50:56 AM) Bendtner92: I don't mind decreasing it a bit if we have no cap
(2:51:00 AM) [CCP]nothin: yup
(2:51:05 AM) RolyatDerTeufel: me either
(2:51:16 AM) [CCP]nothin: but do let us know how it feels
(2:51:23 AM) RolyatDerTeufel: so now every kill = SP :)
(2:51:25 AM) Bendtner92: So no diminishing returns or something like that?
(2:51:51 AM) [CCP]nothin: no diminishing returns
(2:51:56 AM) Bendtner92: Cool
(2:52:11 AM) ishneyk2: question, do instant battle take into account how many SP the player has?
(2:52:24 AM) RolyatDerTeufel: well remember to be in the regular Dust514 irc and i'll gladly let you know after we try it out tomorrow :P
(2:52:34 AM) Bendtner92: Do we still have 5 SP per second in battle, or is that taken out too?
(2:53:06 AM) RolyatDerTeufel: he said the time spent in battle SP will be lowered as well
(2:53:28 AM) Bendtner92: Ah right, missed that
(2:53:30 AM) RolyatDerTeufel: but thats also to stop the AFK SP gains while in a battle :P
(2:53:36 AM) Bendtner92: This will be good :)
(2:57:15 AM) Beers left the room (quit: Client exited).
(2:58:22 AM) Beers [[email protected]] entered the room.
(3:01:20 AM) SILENTSAM69[ROFL] [[email protected]] entered the room.
(3:01:48 AM) RolyatDerTeufel: SILENTSAM69[ROFL] = nub
(3:03:11 AM) Beers: agree
(3:03:24 AM) Beers: scrub nub
(3:03:24 AM) SILENTSAM69[ROFL]: yay!
(3:03:32 AM) Beers: scruby nubby
(3:03:35 AM) SILENTSAM69[ROFL]: do I get an award?
(3:03:43 AM) ***Beers could go on, but wont
(3:04:07 AM) Beers: you survived dust514 close beta and having killed a room full of people yet?
(3:04:15 AM) Beers: haven't
(3:04:29 AM) RolyatDerTeufel: [CCP]nothin: SILENTSAM69[ROFL] doesn't believe when i said no SP cap starting tomorrow [after DT]
(3:04:34 AM) RolyatDerTeufel: :P
(3:04:42 AM) SILENTSAM69[ROFL]: is it true?
(3:04:47 AM) Bendtner92: Yes
(3:04:56 AM) Beers: he already answered that
(3:04:58 AM) Beers: earlier
(3:04:59 AM) SILENTSAM69[ROFL]: I didn't have the irc open :( I cant scroll back
(3:05:09 AM) Beers: the hard cap was to limit our headstart
(3:05:12 AM) SILENTSAM69[ROFL]: when did he say that?
(3:05:34 AM) Beers: i have web browers irc so dont have log
(3:05:40 AM) RolyatDerTeufel: check TS sam
(3:06:06 AM) RolyatDerTeufel: posted it in a convo :P
(3:06:27 AM) Noc: CCP nothin = favorite dev \o/
(3:08:38 AM) SILENTSAM69[ROFL]: so this happens with tonights downtime?
(3:09:09 AM) Heinz_Doofenshertz: thats what he said

I think you mean problem created.

Looks like we'll be seeing proto gear all over the place by the end of the month.

What a shame.

And what's worse, is they basically have to keep it that way. Letting all these people in, good luck trying to force them back into a reasonable rate of SP.

Wtf, this has to be a joke, SP gains were almost perfect. Getting ready to be pissed.

Nothing like being punished for having responsibilities outside of DUST

Woohoo about damn time People still complain that someone will be ahead of them, play smarter

So, i heard from a dev confirmation that today they want to REMOVE the sp cap entirely. Reducing the AFK SP earned and keeping the 1 WP = 1 SP deal.

Just thought you guys would like to know about what i consider to be a giant mistake. Say hello to Dust 247. Where no life teenage grinders from all around the world are kings.

I'd rather have a cap, the no lifer are going to rule the game.

So, i heard from a dev confirmation that today they want to REMOVE the sp cap entirely. Reducing the AFK SP earned and keeping the 1 WP = 1 SP deal.

Just thought you guys would like to know about what i consider to be a giant mistake. Say hello to Dust 247. Where no life teenage grinders from all around the world are kings.

I just love how some people seem to imply that with no cap, the ones who play best will be rewarded. I even saw a "play smarter" crap. Wake up, playing more doesnt mean you're a better player.

The game would die near instantly if that was the case. CCP surely has more brains that this.

No life 24/7 players in top 10 leaderboards after 11 days have already gotten more kills than I did in 2-1/2 months of daily playing at 3-5 hours.

dust was never supposed to have cap afaik
play more, get more SP, get more skills, progress faster. and finally all boosters work fine if you want to use thme.

[CCP]nothin just said on IRC this change isnt making it in today. Hopefully it wont. ever.

I would like to explain the reasons on why we are testing the removal of the SP cap and keep you all better informed.

The development team has been listening intently to the tons of feedback from you guys on the skill system, in particular the current skill cap implementation.

Our original aims with the skill cap were to ensure players progressed through the skill tree at a steady pace, to dis-incentivize 24/7 grinding and to maintain a manageable gap between casual and hardcore players. After trying out a couple of different approaches, none of which were satisfactory, we have realized that the skill cap introduces too many other unacceptable compromises and we have decided to take a leaf out of AlexanderGÇÖs book and just cut the Gordian knot and remove the skill cap altogether. Removing the skill cap opens us up to the risk of not meeting the aims stated above, so we have tuned down reward levels a little to reduce that risk.

We believe that these changes will go a long way towards alleviating the problems that you guys have been drawing to our attention, but we will continue to listen to your feedback, monitor progression data and make further tweaks as necessary.

Finally, we are not removing the SP cap today, and will allow time for the community to speak their minds on this first.

We look forward to hearing from you!

I would like to explain the reasons on why we are testing the removal of the SP cap and keep you all better informed.

The development team has been listening intently to the tons of feedback from you guys on the skill system, in particular the current skill cap implementation.

Our original aims with the skill cap were to ensure players progressed through the skill tree at a steady pace, to dis-incentivize 24/7 grinding and to maintain a manageable gap between casual and hardcore players. After trying out a couple of different approaches, none of which were satisfactory, we have realized that the skill cap introduces too many other unacceptable compromises and we have decided to take a leaf out of AlexanderGÇÖs book and just cut the Gordian knot and remove the skill cap altogether. Removing the skill cap opens us up to the risk of not meeting the aims stated above, so we have tuned down reward levels a little to reduce that risk.

We believe that these changes will go a long way towards alleviating the problems that you guys have been drawing to our attention, but we will continue to listen to your feedback, monitor progression data and make further tweaks as necessary.

Finally, we are not removing the SP cap today, and will allow time for the community to speak their minds on this first.

We look forward to hearing from you!

I would like to explain the reasons on why we are testing the removal of the SP cap and keep you all better informed.

The development team has been listening intently to the tons of feedback from you guys on the skill system, in particular the current skill cap implementation.

Our original aims with the skill cap were to ensure players progressed through the skill tree at a steady pace, to dis-incentivize 24/7 grinding and to maintain a manageable gap between casual and hardcore players. After trying out a couple of different approaches, none of which were satisfactory, we have realized that the skill cap introduces too many other unacceptable compromises and we have decided to take a leaf out of AlexanderGÇÖs book and just cut the Gordian knot and remove the skill cap altogether. Removing the skill cap opens us up to the risk of not meeting the aims stated above, so we have tuned down reward levels a little to reduce that risk.

We believe that these changes will go a long way towards alleviating the problems that you guys have been drawing to our attention, but we will continue to listen to your feedback, monitor progression data and make further tweaks as necessary.

Finally, we are not removing the SP cap today, and will allow time for the community to speak their minds on this first.

We look forward to hearing from you!

I would like to explain the reasons on why we are testing the removal of the SP cap and keep you all better informed.

The development team has been listening intently to the tons of feedback from you guys on the skill system, in particular the current skill cap implementation.

Our original aims with the skill cap were to ensure players progressed through the skill tree at a steady pace, to dis-incentivize 24/7 grinding and to maintain a manageable gap between casual and hardcore players. After trying out a couple of different approaches, none of which were satisfactory, we have realized that the skill cap introduces too many other unacceptable compromises and we have decided to take a leaf out of AlexanderGÇÖs book and just cut the Gordian knot and remove the skill cap altogether. Removing the skill cap opens us up to the risk of not meeting the aims stated above, so we have tuned down reward levels a little to reduce that risk.

We believe that these changes will go a long way towards alleviating the problems that you guys have been drawing to our attention, but we will continue to listen to your feedback, monitor progression data and make further tweaks as necessary.

Finally, we are not removing the SP cap today, and will allow time for the community to speak their minds on this first.

We look forward to hearing from you!

I will make it sort:


Rollings SP cap > Weekly SP cap >>>Daily SP cap >>>>>>>>> No SP cap at all.



The reasons, have been stated by all the people above me a thousand times. So please, don't go out of your way to choose the worst option of all. (Hint: The worst option is no SP cap at all)

Thanks for the reply Wang, and the only advice I can give is a weekly rolling cap.

[CCP]nothin just said on IRC this change isnt making it in today. Hopefully it wont. ever.

I will make it sort:


Rollings SP cap > Weekly SP cap >>>Daily SP cap >>>>>>>>> No SP cap at all.



The reasons, have been stated by all the people above me a thousand times. So please, don't go out of your way to choose the worst option of all. (Hint: The worst option is no SP cap at all)

Honestly, I dont see the problem.

In a years time you may have 20m SP. Some stating 0 Sp. They will never catch up.

Same is true of the uncapped system.

After your base character is built the extra SP will just let you play the game in different ways. It wont let you be less competitive.

People wont b getting 'ahead' of you. People with more SP will just be able to diversify more.

I wont be grinding 24/7. But I may buy a booster for a weekend or something now, which I would never have done. As at the moment the only thing I would pay for this game is the UVT.

Removing the cap altogether sounds like a really bad idea and quite unfair to the casual gamers.

A rolling SP cap would be nice though.

The right way to do "no cap":

1) Vast majority of sp comes from passive.
2) You do NOT get sp for time spent in game, only from WP earned.

Reasons: Rewarding, but not incentive for extended grind. No farming sp by afking.

Except with no cap, your late come will have a lot more way to go to catch up. When a SP system capped with a roll-over SP bank system would allow a guy to catch up with some people that all had kinda the same evolution.

And what you say about extra SP over say 10Mil being just a way to make your character more versatile, i agree. BUT, it's part of the game to choose your first specialization with care, and the second as well. For some people, it will just be a matter of a couple of week depending on how much they would lower the 1sec = 5 SP thing.

Thus it takes something off the game imo. Worrying about choosing your skill wisely is as much important as being self-sufficient with ISK. Worrying about making the good choices so your corp has a good balance in profile is another part of the game. That's gonna disappear soon if it's SP-a-Looza.

You know, I find it kinda funni. I think ppl that want a roll over cap just don't want to be left behind in the dust because they only have weekends to grind, and thats what they'll do......grind the hell outa the weekends, honestly those ppl are prob worse then the so called "basement dwellers" cuz they'll wait for the last day of the rollover and grind away.....totally taking from the casual players, and why shouldn't we be rewarded for our effort in game? aka amount of war points we get, how good we did in the game? so everyone thats wanting some form of cap heres my question, are you wanting this to simply be able to keep up with the rest of the community because you won't earn enough war points in matches to stay ahead? Obviously your going to grind the roll over sp at some point in time right? if your only getting 200 WP per game why the douche should you be able to keep up with me at 1500+ WP per match? you don't have to be good at this game for WP's so thats not it, and I understand ppl have things to do during the most part of the day, but what is this gunna change? since before the wipe I started playing again a week before the wipe, when everyone had their proto gear ect, and I STILL went 25-3 ect. STILL got tons of WP no matter what level of suits you had on the field......so why do you find it so unfair because you can't keep up or get the points? idk wierd, I'd rather get what I earned instead of being equal and capping out with some of you fools at the same level, aka my lil bro may get.....rarly heimdallr69 say 800 wp's and i get 1900 wp's but we get the same sp return..........so I did over double the WP work for the team to win, but I should be punished because the QQ's wouldn't be able to catch up. pfff.

I agree with you about choosing your skill wisely. And I feel really sorry for a lot of people who are going to put SP all over the place like I did when I first joined, or to try things out and there is no reset. Glad I was in a beta to be reset and try stuff out. As you know Corps will pick people on how they ant to specialise in the game. This wont change

But I still think that after 6 months the SP cap or no cap it shouldn't really matter too much to us. The longest we had before a reset was what just under 2 months? And a base character could easily be built in that time. What will it be like in 6 months?

I just dont think we will get left behind? Its about diversification.

CCP can never win this debate. Hence why I reckon they decide to cut the 'gordian knot'.

That's exactly what happend with the weekly cap. After 2 month, i was 10-15% Sp behind my most invested corp mates. And i wouldnt complain as they made the effort to get to the last SP of that weekly cap, every week ! They deserved that slight amount SP over me.

But without cap. Over the same period of time, it would have been something like 60% more SP.

It's all about freakin balance !

Ok.

1) Learn to make a decent post.
2) Come back in twenty kilos, 10-15 years, and with a job, house, family.

Also, no one ever said the current system is perfect. The "1 sec = 5 SP" in battle is way too high. tweaking that value and keeping the cap would probably be a good start.

What's the problem ? people arent rewared for doing well in battle as an afk dude will earn as much. Then just kill the Afk part of the cap. Let's just do math without that part but with the current cap.

So, current cap is 27200 SP. You get 1 SP per WP. Say you'd get 1SP per second in the battle.
For a 15 min battle, afk SP would get you 900 SP. Guy who usually does 1800 WP would earn 2700 SP and the "noob" with 200 WP would win 1100 SP. There you got a reward.

With that kind of rate, it would require around 10 games to cap for a good player. Around 30 games for a not so good player. Thus people wouldnt reach cap every day. HArder players would and thus create a gap day after day.

That's exactly what happend with the weekly cap. After 2 month, i was 10-15% Sp behind my most invested corp mates. And i wouldnt complain as they made the effort to get to the last SP of that weekly cap, every week ! They deserved that slight amount SP over me.

But without cap. Over the same period of time, it would have been something like 60% more SP.

It's all about freakin balance !

What you're forgetting is that the current skills, weapons etc.. arent final. The game will have extensions, new stuff to do etc.. And that open grind will come back to be a problem more than once. New stuff will be grinded away by the guys who grinded the most before etc.. etc... etc..

There has to be a middle ground between "every one on the same level" and "you there, get as much as you want'

Maintain the current system, but include SP rollover and increase the gratis xp from 50 to 700 or so (incentive enough to continue playing sans meaningful corporate warfare, but low enough to ensure not too much of an advantage can be gained) and you're on the money in my opinion.

I think the cap we have now would be fine with a roll over system for those that can't cap every day to catch up on days off. Increase the consolation to 1000 sp (enough to make a difference over several matches for those that play a lot) and reduce the time spent in battle to 1wp/second instead of 5wp/second.

No cap at all is just crazy. It will kill this game for players that don't have hours and hours to devote to gaming.

So with this rolling cap, we talking at the end of say 7 days if you don't use whats rolled over then you lose the sp? or do you hang on to it forever?

Lose the SP ideally. Even WoW has a limit of how much double EXP you can store.

Lose the SP ideally. Even WoW has a limit of how much double EXP you can store.

I vote for the no cap limit and getting sp based on wp gained, the current wp system of course must be reevaluated

honestly why are people afraid with the no cap limit? the battlefield series does this (new players start with limited gear and you gain more the more points you gain)


are you worried the new players might catch up to those of you who started playing from day 1?

I vote for the no cap limit and getting sp based on wp gained, the current wp system of course must be reevaluated

honestly why are people afraid with the no cap limit? the battlefield series does this (new players start with limited gear and you gain more the more points you gain)


are you worried the new players might catch up to those of you who started playing from day 1?

So far the Dev post stating "we are removing the SP cap" has only 6 likes.
Compared to the 40+ posts from players afterwards saying WTF are you thinking.

Lose it exaxly. This way there is this middle ground of' hey you must log into atleasts semi-regularilly' as opposed to 'hey I'll just make this char now and wait for 1 year to have ROLFLOL worth of SP to grind through.'

it would need to be a decent cap though imo, if we had what we did last time, like 370k or something for a week........idk I can only

play to make the KDR go higher for so long....at current I cap out quick, due to not having any low reward games

so if some ppl say play only 1 day per week and grind out their cap, what about us that play a lil extra now and then for the hell of it? we'll be having no reason to log in until the cap cycles again like last time, what I did anyways, once the week cap was hit well.....that was it

until the next week came by 0 dust.

THis rewarding SP directly according to WP is bad idea, due to it incentivices a WP farming. ie. logi's just revieving for the +X WP, or orgaiced groups of players doing WP farming in Skirmish by capping opbjectives in turn.

By going this route, one is just incetivising to abuse the mechanics even more.

But I'd like to point out that in this 7-day rolling cap thing. There is possibility that one doesen't 'keep up' with others, since it' requires one to 'grind' that SP pool down to acoomodate more SP.
And this par is crusial to be in there.

But the games supposed to be about corp battles, not sp grinding!! Sp should be the icing on the cake of a great fun to play competitive fps not the other way around. IMO

I feel thats a fair middle ground. The rolling sp system was always the way to go.

Like I said with a No Cap system people will end up making bots and hiring Chinese farmers to build chars for them. And all those guys who put in massive hours of their own time will end up just as pissed of as everyone else. It will just take a little longer until they realize there mistake. Dust will become a haven for sp grinding bots and farmers from china playing other peoples accounts.

I personally make good money and I have friends who play this who make good money as well. Im certain under a no cap system my buddies will just hire a Chinese farmer to play for them send them a ps3 if they need it or give them money for start up and then just let them do the grind. The best part about this game is that its a low grind skill based mmo fps with a persistent world.
and at the end of the day that is money CCP would be giving to china instead of into its own pockets to work on the game!!

like I said, the current wp system must be reevaluated first

about your concern about organized groups farming wp, they can just ban them like they did to bot mining in eve

like I said, the current wp system must be reevaluated first

about your concern about organized groups farming wp, they can just ban them like they did to bot mining in eve

cool. Economics at work. Whats the problem. apparently you can do this in Eve already/.

You know, I find it kinda funni. I think ppl that want a roll over cap just don't want to be left behind in the dust

What's your concern? People will get ahead? People will always have more SP than others.

There is no way to fix this outcome under any system.

If anyone will accept your corp battles that is ^^ hehe

You have a point in that people will always get ahead. My concern is that a lot of people will get too far ahead too soon, when we still don't have a playerbase big enough to endure it. Dust needs a big playerbase to survive.

Open beta starts today, a lot of newbies are coming to Dust. When those newbies start leaving Dust in a month because they can't keep up with all the protogear and protovehicles thrown at them, we are not only losing those players. We are losing any other player they know through bad press and word of mouth.


If we had a system to separate new players implemented (like hisec, lowsec, nulsec); maybe I would not dislike the no sp cap idea so much. But as it is, I think it is a very bad idea.

Sorry bro, but that's not true. I can play a lot of hours each day. Cazaderon and a lot of other players I see not wanting this change also play a lot.


So no SP cap would benefit us, actually. We would have an advantage over people that can't play as much. We don't want this change because we think it would be bad for the game, not because we think it would be bad for us.






You have a point in that people will always get ahead. My concern is that a lot of people will get too far ahead too soon, when we still don't have a playerbase big enough to endure it. Dust needs a big playerbase to survive.

Open beta starts today, a lot of newbies are coming to Dust. When those newbies start leaving Dust in a month because they can't keep up with all the protogear and protovehicles thrown at them, we are not only losing those players. We are losing any other player they know through bad press and word of mouth.


If we had a system to separate new players implemented (like hisec, lowsec, nulsec); maybe I would not dislike the no sp cap idea so much. But as it is, I think it is a very bad idea.

It's in Beta. We are not playing the live game yet. So quit you whining and get into the spirit of playing a Beta.

I wouldn't mind a removal of the SP cap, or make it very high. Sure, some people will start to pull ahead, but this game isn't to dominated by gear as much as tactics and team play. I fear getting blueberries on my team far more than running into one or two geared out people.

So with this rolling cap, we talking at the end of say 7 days if you don't use whats rolled over then you lose the sp? or do you hang on to it forever?

I would like to explain the reasons on why we are testing the removal of the SP cap and keep you all better informed.

The development team has been listening intently to the tons of feedback from you guys on the skill system, in particular the current skill cap implementation.

Our original aims with the skill cap were to ensure players progressed through the skill tree at a steady pace, to dis-incentivize 24/7 grinding and to maintain a manageable gap between casual and hardcore players. After trying out a couple of different approaches, none of which were satisfactory, we have realized that the skill cap introduces too many other unacceptable compromises and we have decided to take a leaf out of AlexanderGÇÖs book and just cut the Gordian knot and remove the skill cap altogether. Removing the skill cap opens us up to the risk of not meeting the aims stated above, so we have tuned down reward levels a little to reduce that risk.

We believe that these changes will go a long way towards alleviating the problems that you guys have been drawing to our attention, but we will continue to listen to your feedback, monitor progression data and make further tweaks as necessary.

Finally, we are not removing the SP cap today, and will allow time for the community to speak their minds on this first.

We look forward to hearing from you!

You seem to be making a lot of mistakes today. First the $10 each Militia items; then the removal of SP caps so basement dwellers can cap their SP within 6 months to a year, instead of the 5 it's supposed to take.

Honestly, I'm not happy with the direction Dust is taking. I might have spent money to get things here and there before, but this change and that other mean I will likely consign it to the trash bin. You can make gameplay as good as you want; no amount of design is going to make it worth playing with this sort of design.

I know itGÇÖs not the attitude but I kinda give up on this. CCP will do as they see fit and I will just have to adapt to whatever comes out the evil lab in Iceland.

Sorry bro, but that's not true. I can play a lot of hours each day. Cazaderon and a lot of other players I see not wanting this change also play a lot.


So no SP cap would benefit us, actually. We would have an advantage over people that can't play as much. We don't want this change because we think it would be bad for the game, not because we think it would be bad for us.






You have a point in that people will always get ahead. My concern is that a lot of people will get too far ahead too soon, when we still don't have a playerbase big enough to endure it. Dust needs a big playerbase to survive.

Open beta starts today, a lot of newbies are coming to Dust. When those newbies start leaving Dust in a month because they can't keep up with all the protogear and protovehicles thrown at them, we are not only losing those players. We are losing any other player they know through bad press and word of mouth.


If we had a system to separate new players implemented (like hisec, lowsec, nulsec); maybe I would not dislike the no sp cap idea so much. But as it is, I think it is a very bad idea.

I for one personally welcome our new Chinese SP farming overlords. But without disrespecting or making any less of our new Bot-ing SP farming overlords.

Hope you guys know the can of worms your opening........

*Double Facepalm CCP

Btw thats money you wont be seeing... Farmers and bot-ers will be. Your money... their pockets CCP.

...
You will still need to eat so a microwave right next to the sofa is a must.
...

I have to say DUST514 are spoilt bunch.

I have only been playing for 1 week. But have been Playing EVEONLINE for 7 years. In EVE you dont get extra Skill Points after every battle that allows you to instantly learn a skill. You earn Skill Points by learing a Skill. To level up a skill in EVE can take from as lttle as 5 mins to over 30 days and thats just to learn 1 level of a particular skill. Thankfully you dont have to be online as you do learn the skill passivly while offline.

I understand that Dust is a completly different styte of game. Its the fast food equivilant to the fine dining that is EVE Online. So things have to work at a pace much quicker. But with the OPEN BETA it seems to me the removal of the CAP is designed to give those who have 0 skills to develope skills quicly and not be put off from a game already filled with far better trained players when they begin to get raped.

Remember its still BETA but if we want a successful complete game with lots of players, then an open beta is the time to encourage new players by allowing them to see full potential now so they will want to play on final release and not scare them off by making it too hard in BETA. The more players we have at final release the better chance of DUST surviving.

The problem is that this is a different crowd of people we're dealing with, an FPSer strives for progression constantly and by having active component accomplishes quite a bit of it until more content is brought in.

I only have one question for CCP...

How do you kill, that which has no life?

Yea I guess itGÇÖs adapt or die a lot time.

Now for those of you that want to be competitive but have real lives I can give you some tips.

Firstly lets cover marriage. ItGÇÖs expensive and is a massive time sink. Both the time and the money could be better spent so go see a lawyer and get that out the way.
If you have a home left after the divorce I would suggest sell sell sell and get a 12 by 12 box to live in (you wonGÇÖt have time to maintain anything else).

You will still need to eat so a microwave right next to the sofa is a must.

Delete Facebook account and change your phone number to prevent unwelcome distractions.

Other than that all I can say is good luck ladies and lads see you on the battlefield.

May I be the first to say, I love you commander wang, down with the SP CAP!

The SP System is very easy to figure out tbh.

Let's imagine we've just reset and they've introduced a new system based on this idea.

22/01/2013
The SP "Pool" is currently at 28,000 SP (+25% with Booster)
23/01/2013
The SP "Pool" is currently at 56,000 SP (+25% with Booster)
24/01/2013
The SP "Pool" is currently at 84,000 SP (+25% with Booster)

So you can see everyday the Pool raises by 28,000 SP, this never gets reset and doesn't matter if its a new player or a vet, the pool will be the same. In 365 days the pool will be 102,200,000 SP, now ofcourse this is a large amount and probably wouldn't be that much, but the point is, everyday the pool gets larger and larger, keeping the no lifers at bay but still allowing players to catch up if they've been off on holiday for two weeks.

Thoughts?

I love that people with an active life don't even want no lifers to have the smallest glimpse of reward or happiness. You've got your reward, your full life. Go be busy.

Thank you Cmdr Wang for listening to the community.

I, and I know many like myself, fully appreciate the removal of this SP cap so we can enjoy the game you have developed for us without the negative atmosphere the SP cap was creating.

Thank you very much.

+1

Are you guys serious. You guys seriously suck if you can't play for war points. I say remove the cap. Skill points = war points
Like legit that is better then a stupid cap. A really stupid cap was playing a match and getting 75 skill points. Annoying. And you guys still complaining and they finally found a solution to the skill points.
Annoying.

Skill points = war points +1

The strongest corps in the game will have no members over the age of 14, guaranteed.

I would like to explain the reasons on why we are testing the removal of the SP cap and keep you all better informed.

The development team has been listening intently to the tons of feedback from you guys on the skill system, in particular the current skill cap implementation.

Our original aims with the skill cap were to ensure players progressed through the skill tree at a steady pace, to dis-incentivize 24/7 grinding and to maintain a manageable gap between casual and hardcore players. After trying out a couple of different approaches, none of which were satisfactory, we have realized that the skill cap introduces too many other unacceptable compromises and we have decided to take a leaf out of AlexanderGÇÖs book and just cut the Gordian knot and remove the skill cap altogether. Removing the skill cap opens us up to the risk of not meeting the aims stated above, so we have tuned down reward levels a little to reduce that risk.

We believe that these changes will go a long way towards alleviating the problems that you guys have been drawing to our attention, but we will continue to listen to your feedback, monitor progression data and make further tweaks as necessary.

Finally, we are not removing the SP cap today, and will allow time for the community to speak their minds on this first.

We look forward to hearing from you!

If by full life you mean the requirement to invest most of my time working just to put food on the table and pay the rent, while not having children or even a wife, and not having many friends or the money or time to go out an do things, then I think you've just stuck your foot in your mouth. (i.e: **** off; you don't have a clue what you are talking about)

the skill cap introduces too many other unacceptable compromises

I would like to explain the reasons on why we are testing the removal of the SP cap and keep you all better informed.

The development team has been listening intently to the tons of feedback from you guys on the skill system, in particular the current skill cap implementation.

Our original aims with the skill cap were to ensure players progressed through the skill tree at a steady pace, to dis-incentivize 24/7 grinding and to maintain a manageable gap between casual and hardcore players. After trying out a couple of different approaches, none of which were satisfactory, we have realized that the skill cap introduces too many other unacceptable compromises and we have decided to take a leaf out of AlexanderGÇÖs book and just cut the Gordian knot and remove the skill cap altogether. Removing the skill cap opens us up to the risk of not meeting the aims stated above, so we have tuned down reward levels a little to reduce that risk.

We believe that these changes will go a long way towards alleviating the problems that you guys have been drawing to our attention, but we will continue to listen to your feedback, monitor progression data and make further tweaks as necessary.

Finally, we are not removing the SP cap today, and will allow time for the community to speak their minds on this first.

We look forward to hearing from you!

If by full life you mean the requirement to invest most of my time working just to put food on the table and pay the rent, while not having children or even a wife, and not having many friends or the money or time to go out an do things, then I think you've just stuck your foot in your mouth. (i.e: **** off; you don't have a clue what you are talking about)

I'm a firm believer in making your own life. If you aren't happy with your current one then do something about it. At some point in your life you have made some sort of choice that has ended with you being where you are now. It's simple causality.

Many of us on the otherhand made choices in life that we are happy with. These choices allow us to have free time and do the things we enjoy such as play Dust 514.

I see no justifiable reason to damage this game with an SP cap simply because you made poor life choices which you are now clearly regretting.

Thanks again for removing the SP cap Cmdr Wang.

Does anyone know what Wang is talking about here. I'd love to know what terrible compromises are being used to justify this awful decision.

I would like to explain the reasons on why we are testing the removal of the SP cap and keep you all better informed.

The development team has been listening intently to the tons of feedback from you guys on the skill system, in particular the current skill cap implementation.

Our original aims with the skill cap were to ensure players progressed through the skill tree at a steady pace, to dis-incentivize 24/7 grinding and to maintain a manageable gap between casual and hardcore players. After trying out a couple of different approaches, none of which were satisfactory, we have realized that the skill cap introduces too many other unacceptable compromises and we have decided to take a leaf out of AlexanderGÇÖs book and just cut the Gordian knot and remove the skill cap altogether. Removing the skill cap opens us up to the risk of not meeting the aims stated above, so we have tuned down reward levels a little to reduce that risk.

We believe that these changes will go a long way towards alleviating the problems that you guys have been drawing to our attention, but we will continue to listen to your feedback, monitor progression data and make further tweaks as necessary.

Finally, we are not removing the SP cap today, and will allow time for the community to speak their minds on this first.

We look forward to hearing from you!

But the games supposed to be about corp battles, not sp grinding!! Sp should be the icing on the cake of a great fun to play competitive fps not the other way around. IMO

This was an incredibly ignorant statement. You've got a lot of balls to say others have made poor choices. Life doesn't always give you what you want even when you deserve it.

Personally I hated the daily cap, & I thought most people here did too. But after reading this, I guess not. I'm not saying that removing the cap was the answer, a weekly or monthly rolling cap would make more sense. The daily cap was punishing people who did not play everyday. I actually think it's better to let the no-lifers run wild, then to punish the people with real lives, just to keep them in check. People who play all day everyday, should have an advantage over the guy who plays 1-2 days a week. Life isn't fair, deal with it.

Thanks for the reply Wang, and the only advice I can give is a weekly rolling cap.

THis rewarding SP directly according to WP is bad idea, due to it incentivices a WP farming. ie. logi's just revieving for the +X WP, or orgaiced groups of players doing WP farming in Skirmish by capping opbjectives in turn.

By going this route, one is just incetivising to abuse the mechanics even more.

But I'd like to point out that in this 7-day rolling cap thing. There is possibility that one doesen't 'keep up' with others, since it' requires one to 'grind' that SP pool down to acoomodate more SP.
And this par is crusial to be in there.

I'm a firm believer in making your own life. If you aren't happy with your current one then do something about it. At some point in your life you have made some sort of choice that has ended with you being where you are now. It's simple causality.

Many of us on the otherhand made choices in life that we are happy with. These choices allow us to have free time and do the things we enjoy such as play Dust 514.

I see no justifiable reason to damage this game with an SP cap simply because you made poor life choices which you are now clearly regretting.

Thanks again for removing the SP cap Cmdr Wang.

This was an incredibly ignorant statement. You've got a lot of balls to say others have made poor choices. Life doesn't always give you what you want even when you deserve it.

You assume my life choices are poor, and you defend people who claim I have a full life because I work for a living? News Flash: This just in; Working for a living is a poor life choice.

wtf Do you honestly think people can just change their circumstance so easily? Shall I just wave a magic wand and make a good woman appear--who is interested in me--and increase my yearly income to about $90000 so I can afford to have a family and buy a house?

Just fyi, only so many people can earn so much, and there isn't that much money to go around with high paid persons earning enough to provide much better quality of living for hundreds, if not thousands, or hundreds of thousands. The vast majority of global income is drawn into finite points. It is not spread around.

I work as an Electrician, and only recently started doing that. It might amount to something some day, but it certainly hasn't yet. It would cost me nearly one quarter of my income just to finance and insure a newer vehicle. Maybe a little more than. Rent is about a third.

This has nothing to do with poor life choices, and everything to do with a lack of opportunity and fiscal assets to make things happen. Even provided I didn't have any bad habits at all, I would still be moving forward under low steam. I waste some money, it is true, but I waste it because I'm attempting to at least enjoy something of this life I've been given.

Mostly good food actually, rather than eating KD which wouldn't get me through my work day anyway. I consume an average of 3-4K calories a day and I weigh in at 184 pounds at 6'1" If I didn't at least eat good food once in awhile, I'd be suffering from exhaustion most days.

I'm already suffering from exhaustion, but it has more to do with limited sleep than food I think. I also smoke; have for 25 years; terrible habit, but not so easy to quit for some as others. Also, waste of money.

I don't hesitate to admit my flaws; I never pretended otherwise. Calling people out for not having the time, and claiming working was a reward is ignorant. People work because they have to; if they didn't, they'd have the time if they wanted to invest it.

Believe it or not, someone better off than me--by a bit--and married to an equally well off spouse, raising children, will still have limited time and energy, and their life will not be so rewarding as suggested. Most people don't even have the time to invest on spending with their children, and are mostly investing it in providing for them, even when they are well off.

How is that rewarding? ..particularly when the majority of what you do more readily benefits someone else, or provides them with things you don't have yourself, and likely could not afford?

Myself for example: I have literally assisted with the install of multiple security systems, prewired and finished thousands of homes with cable, telecommunications and audio systems, security wiring, and both roughed in and installed central vacuum systems in as many or more than that. I have, as well, wired and finished electrical for as many as 40 homes and done quite a few Reno's.

That's just in the last 6 years, and I don't yet have a home of my own and couldn't possibly think of affording one.

Do you think my job is unnecessary? That I made a poor life choice?

In this context, do you think it is rewarding enough in itself, and that I should make way for those who don't have to invest their time on such things, and can sit at home on a PS3? That I am undeserving somehow, of having something to do with my spare time, when I want to, without having to suffer from the iniquity of limited SP when compared to others who have been playing as long as I have, if more than?

I don't.