Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 17 18 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
mollerz
s1ck3r Corp
71
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 20:56:00 -
[361] - Quote
so hard work is punished and everyone must be equal...
socialist pinko quafe commies!! :D |
DUST Fiend
Immobile Infantry
1903
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 21:05:00 -
[362] - Quote
semperfi1999 wrote:Well your comment on what you heard from my statement is wrong. I agree with telc that the primary focus should be on ISK but I also honestly cant see how CCP can make this game profitable while maintaining a SP cap. I will probably play this game (unless they seriously screw it up) until either I have no friends playing it anymore or they move it to the newer system and I dont buy that new system. I like having no cap better than having a daily cap where I feel like I have to play every single day. Without a cap I dont feel like I am forced to play to keep up with the pace. Heck I would be ok with it being a completely passive gain for the SP myself but I know that wont fly with the majority of players here and once again it takes me back to the argument if its all passive then would people really buy enough boosters to keep this game in the black??? Right now I cant see people buying AUR for the weapons but for the other things like boosters and maybe UVT (although the price increase was pretty drastic IMO).
The current implementation of the SP cap is stupid, because it forces you to play every day of the week. The idea of an SP cap though is something we have been working on for months now. This is basically CCP throwing up their hands and saying "screw it".
It's such a shame too, because the SP cap is almost perfect. |
Aeon Amadi
Maverick Conflict Solutions
1003
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 21:13:00 -
[363] - Quote
Lord Crases wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Keep the current system and provide SP rollover for the week. Removal of the system allows for a major power imbalance based on time spent playing rather than time spent since character generation. Not all of us have the luxury of spending twelve hours a day playing Dust 514. Having a massive amount of skills only lets you switch roles more not roll over people.
Incorrect. If I get all prototype gear, I can have a marked advantage just as quickly as they allow ISK trading between Capsuleers and Mercs. The only thing preventing me from having the best gear would be the ISK factor, which will one-day be removed completely and new, casual players won't have a chance to enjoy the game. |
Sleepy Zan
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
2047
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 21:20:00 -
[364] - Quote
lol holy ****, just logged in today and found this monster thread. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
248
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 21:21:00 -
[365] - Quote
xAckie wrote:Flyingconejo wrote:I will make it sort:
Rollings SP cap > Weekly SP cap >>>Daily SP cap >>>>>>>>> No SP cap at all.
The reasons, have been stated by all the people above me a thousand times. So please, don't go out of your way to choose the worst option of all. (Hint: The worst option is no SP cap at all) What's your concern? People will get ahead? People will always have more SP than others. There is no way to fix this outcome under any system.
True, people will have different amounts of SP. But it's not just that simple. The way it happens matters a lot.
With current gains and no cap it's just a matter of a day or two to get 1M SP. After 1-2 months people would have everything and therefore nothing to gain SP wise. Bye bye years of developing characters.
One might argue "but hey, let's scale down SP rewards so that it takes two years to get everything!" Then 'normal' players get only few thousand points per day, making it probably too slow to get ahead and stay motivated.
(Remeber, we all are most likely driven by the feel of getting something more and advancing soon) |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
969
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 21:27:00 -
[366] - Quote
mollerz wrote:so hard work is punished and everyone must be equal...
socialist pinko quafe commies!! :D
You are correct to a point.
CCP does not want you to progress too fast and if they don't do it with a hard cap they will get the job done by reducing your average reward. That's the reference to "compromising our objectives"
Even without the cap CCP is NOT handing you the keys to the Porsche.
So your hard work will be punished.
Now everyone is NOT being treated equal because there will be a regressive SP tax on new players. There will be a1-2 order magnitude difference between players if you rely upon WP for the majority of SP awarded.
This completely compromises the stated objective of keeping players close together.
If we agree that it's a non-important goal we have only to decide if we set the "reasonable amount of SP" level at that earned by the hard core beta vet, or for the new player. If the vet gets the reasonable level (whatever that is), then the new player gets 1-2 orders of magnitude less than reasonable. If the average player gets that reward, then the vet gets more than "reasonable" and the new player less. I don't see how to make this work if the primary purpose is to keep a throttle on the hard core vets. The spread is just too large. |
KEROSIINI-TERO
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
248
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 21:28:00 -
[367] - Quote
Marc Rime wrote:DJINN leukoplast wrote:Daily SP cap with rollover that resets every week is the perfect solution. I agree - apart from the reset-bit. If they reset the weekly pool on a certain day people will feel they "need" to play the day before the weekly reset since otherwise that days SP is "lost". Whining would continue.
Whining would continue but it would most likely to be least. As I said before, most people live thru weekly cycles so they could focus on their free days. |
Cerebral Wolf Jr
Immobile Infantry
760
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 21:34:00 -
[368] - Quote
CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:I would like to explain the reasons on why we are testing the removal of the SP cap and keep you all better informed.
The development team has been listening intently to the tons of feedback from you guys on the skill system, in particular the current skill cap implementation.
Our original aims with the skill cap were to ensure players progressed through the skill tree at a steady pace, to dis-incentivize 24/7 grinding and to maintain a manageable gap between casual and hardcore players. After trying out a couple of different approaches, none of which were satisfactory, we have realized that the skill cap introduces too many other unacceptable compromises and we have decided to take a leaf out of AlexanderGÇÖs book and just cut the Gordian knot and remove the skill cap altogether. Removing the skill cap opens us up to the risk of not meeting the aims stated above, so we have tuned down reward levels a little to reduce that risk.
We believe that these changes will go a long way towards alleviating the problems that you guys have been drawing to our attention, but we will continue to listen to your feedback, monitor progression data and make further tweaks as necessary.
Finally, we are not removing the SP cap today, and will allow time for the community to speak their minds on this first.
We look forward to hearing from you!
Please for the love of god do NOT do this. Its the worst god damn idea you've had yet and as much as i love this game and CCP and all the work you've done don't do this.
Just put in a weekly rolling cap, its what we've all be asking for, for litterally months now. |
D Avenue
KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION
12
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 21:38:00 -
[369] - Quote
The point i still fail to keep seeing is how other MMO's have there PVP play
You see no big MMO's today where a lvl 1 is stuck against a lvl 80 in any PvP
Ask yourself why? Because no lvl 1 will continue to stick around and play lvl 80's getting there but kicked every game. And then laugh at people that say SP = WP because how many SP will a person get at lvl 1 when they never get a Kill/hack/assist because they are dead before they can move?
Here in dust you can see that now, a person with 3 mil SP vs a person with 100K. (essentially a lvl 50 vs lvl 1) And this is only right away, think of a possible gap after a year! Now team that up in a group of 4 lvl 50's vs 4 newbies = total destruction.
Hence not having a feeling of balanced: Why that is not possible in dust, Not enough player base to have leveled matchmaking.
Maybe when the game goes live they will at least have matchmaking complexity to match low level SP vs low level SP and so on with High level SP vs High level SP
In any other MMO PvP you would never see that. That is where this SP problem is stemming from DCUO = seperate PvP games for high level vs high level and same for low level WOW = same way, with ranked leader boards.
In eve as stated by others there is a null sec where low levels can feel safe, here in dust there is not, and with no SP system you will have nothing but these problems.
Lets face it any game that has the model where Lvl 80 vs lvl 1 is allowed will die off or have a very very small player base after a small amount of time.
One of many things has to happen from CCP's side to make this game last. |
DJINN leukoplast
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
288
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 21:47:00 -
[370] - Quote
mollerz wrote:so hard work is punished and everyone must be equal...
socialist pinko quafe commies!! :D
Here is the irony in that. The 24/7 players believe they should inherently gain more than those who do not play as much as they do, thus causing a massive gap between 24/7 players and casuals. But in real life these players are most likely leeching off the government, have no job, and would be in favor of a Marxist socialist system that punishes the wealthy and attempts to put everybody on relatively 'equal' ground.
Then you have the casual non-24/7 players, generally a part of the working class in real life who have jobs and lives outside of the game. They support the idea that the game should have a somewhat 'even' distribution between players in the name of balance, and that the gap between 24/7 players and casuals should be manageable and not so sharp. I would hope that these players in real life would support a system in which hard work and time spent working would be rewarded, and that if the person works harder/longer than somebody else, they should get more money.
Kind of funny when you think about it |
|
Catal60
Immobile Infantry
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 21:56:00 -
[371] - Quote
I honestly cannot see what the is with removing the cap. For one, there is an upper limit to what you can unlock with the stuff. And for two, what difference does a small universal increase in abilities matter when more battles are won by aiming correctly and moving around effectively than just standing there and gormlessly shooting each other in the head?
The biggest thing you get out of SP unlocks is the ability to use new items, yes. But those items are balanced by being incredibly expensive too. If you want to blow your entire match bonus on tier five equipment for all your slots, go ahead! Get sniped or run over by a tank and lose all that money.
/sigh But if you *must* keep a cap then please set it for at least a week. I don't much like feeling like I fell behind in the game because I had to spend my evening writing papers rather than playing DUST when I spent hours on it over the weekend, half of which just earning 75sp per match. |
CHANEL-No5
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 22:54:00 -
[372] - Quote
It's a terrible idea to remove SP cap! Please CCP, find another solution. Eighter make it weekly cap or daily with roll overs.
|
ZardOz Owls
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
2
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 23:04:00 -
[373] - Quote
We should work towards excellence, not equal mediocrity.
The idea of forcing everyone to have the same amount of SP is truly offensive to my 7 years of EVE sensibilities.
Remove the cap, allow the idea of the sandbox to prevail.
Remember, no one is equal, not even in death. Some men die great, some die child molesters in jail.
Frack equality. |
Skihids
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
969
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 23:12:00 -
[374] - Quote
Catal60 wrote:I honestly cannot see what the is with removing the cap. For one, there is an upper limit to what you can unlock with the stuff. And for two, what difference does a small universal increase in abilities matter when more battles are won by aiming correctly and moving around effectively than just standing there and gormlessly shooting each other in the head?
The biggest thing you get out of SP unlocks is the ability to use new items, yes. But those items are balanced by being incredibly expensive too. If you want to blow your entire match bonus on tier five equipment for all your slots, go ahead! Get sniped or run over by a tank and lose all that money.
/sigh But if you *must* keep a cap then please set it for at least a week. I don't much like feeling like I fell behind in the game because I had to spend my evening writing papers rather than playing DUST when I spent hours on it over the weekend, half of which just earning 75sp per match.
The "Deal" is that they aren't just removing the cap.
CCP is also reducing the SP awarded per match, dramatically slowing progress for new players.
And the damage bonuses from skills are not minor. |
Red Dot 24601-HA
S.e.V.e.N.
36
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 23:31:00 -
[375] - Quote
What f we follow Eve's example and go with a time based skill progression? the cap no longer matters. Or have skills set to be learned in the queue and then turn down the rewards a lot so that the little sp you gain in battle gets put towards the skill you have selected. Or gain skill in area as you use the skill. Dropsuit command increases the whole time you are wearing one, Logistics suits increase only while you wear one. HAV increases as you use one and get kills with it, same with weapons. Then in order to learn how to use something you actually have to be using it. starting at militia grade. You get back what you put into it. Metal gear online skill progression worked like this. It makes sense... |
Belzeebub Santana
SVER True Blood Unclaimed.
409
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 23:43:00 -
[376] - Quote
Red Dot 24601-HA wrote:What f we follow Eve's example and go with a time based skill progression? the cap no longer matters. Or have skills set to be learned in the queue and then turn down the rewards a lot so that the little sp you gain in battle gets put towards the skill you have selected. Or gain skill in area as you use the skill. Dropsuit command increases the whole time you are wearing one, Logistics suits increase only while you wear one. HAV increases as you use one and get kills with it, same with weapons. Then in order to learn how to use something you actually have to be using it. starting at militia grade. You get back what you put into it. Metal gear online skill progression worked like this. It makes sense...
This is what I would have liked to see also but I think its way late for an idea like this to be implemented. MGO did so much right, CCP needs to take a good look at that online game. |
Frank Devine
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
107
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 23:46:00 -
[377] - Quote
CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:I would like to explain the reasons on why we are testing the removal of the SP cap and keep you all better informed.
The development team has been listening intently to the tons of feedback from you guys on the skill system, in particular the current skill cap implementation.
Our original aims with the skill cap were to ensure players progressed through the skill tree at a steady pace, to dis-incentivize 24/7 grinding and to maintain a manageable gap between casual and hardcore players. After trying out a couple of different approaches, none of which were satisfactory, we have realized that the skill cap introduces too many other unacceptable compromises and we have decided to take a leaf out of AlexanderGÇÖs book and just cut the Gordian knot and remove the skill cap altogether. Removing the skill cap opens us up to the risk of not meeting the aims stated above, so we have tuned down reward levels a little to reduce that risk.
We believe that these changes will go a long way towards alleviating the problems that you guys have been drawing to our attention, but we will continue to listen to your feedback, monitor progression data and make further tweaks as necessary.
Finally, we are not removing the SP cap today, and will allow time for the community to speak their minds on this first.
We look forward to hearing from you!
I don't think the SP cap should be removed completely, I think it should be doubled or tripled but not completely removed. The reason I think we should keep some sort of cap is because of people like me who do have lives outside of this game that it would create a unfair advantage when you have groups of people that have nothing better to do then stay on and play 24 hours a day. That is just my 2 cents take it for what it is worth. |
Kira Lannister
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
711
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 23:48:00 -
[378] - Quote
Where did all this come from 0_0 |
5377
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
4
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 23:50:00 -
[379] - Quote
One of the reasons I really got behind the idea of spending money on this game and investing time was that I saw CCP as a company that was trying to be ethical while providing a solid gaming experience to the masses. The cap, regardless of weekly or daily, was a major step in the right direction for the MMO gaming collective. There are several reasons for that: 1) teenagers playing games rather than sleeping, skipping school to play, generally ignoring school work, and not learning how to socially interact with anyone that doesn't have a PSN account; 2) the number of recent deaths due to people playing video games for insane hours without sleep; 3) the number of bad parents that think it is more important to play games than spend time with their families. I have been on this game for one month, and I already squaded with one guy that was yelling at his kids for distracting him from his important goal of playing Dust514. Remove the cap and the people who don't know how to be good people only allows them to indulge even more in being shi**y people.
I think this is one change that should be changed back. Yes people would complain, but like Steve Jobs said, "People don't know what they want." I genuinely think like the other comments that the idea of capping allows for continuity. People are leveling up at a similar rate, which makes it more about skill.
r |
Kira Lannister
Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy
711
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 23:51:00 -
[380] - Quote
ROLL CAP FTW |
|
develsgun
Phyrexian Engineering Legacy Rising
19
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 00:00:00 -
[381] - Quote
Frank Devine wrote:CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:I would like to explain the reasons on why we are testing the removal of the SP cap and keep you all better informed.
The development team has been listening intently to the tons of feedback from you guys on the skill system, in particular the current skill cap implementation.
Our original aims with the skill cap were to ensure players progressed through the skill tree at a steady pace, to dis-incentivize 24/7 grinding and to maintain a manageable gap between casual and hardcore players. After trying out a couple of different approaches, none of which were satisfactory, we have realized that the skill cap introduces too many other unacceptable compromises and we have decided to take a leaf out of AlexanderGÇÖs book and just cut the Gordian knot and remove the skill cap altogether. Removing the skill cap opens us up to the risk of not meeting the aims stated above, so we have tuned down reward levels a little to reduce that risk.
We believe that these changes will go a long way towards alleviating the problems that you guys have been drawing to our attention, but we will continue to listen to your feedback, monitor progression data and make further tweaks as necessary.
Finally, we are not removing the SP cap today, and will allow time for the community to speak their minds on this first.
We look forward to hearing from you!
I don't think the SP cap should be removed completely, I think it should be doubled or tripled but not completely removed. The reason I think we should keep some sort of cap is because of people like me who do have lives outside of this game that it would create a unfair advantage when you have groups of people that have nothing better to do then stay on and play 24 hours a day. That is just my 2 cents take it for what it is worth. please if u would explain this unfair advantage as the instant match maker places u in aatch with people close to ur own sp. The diffrences in mods and quality of mods aint enough to warrent the person unstoppable by younger players just harder to beat. So wheres the unfair advantage ull be running across cause I dont see it. I say remove the cap give everyone the sp the grind for and the amount of time someone puts into the game contfols how quickly they get better skills.
Now lets make it funner no cash reward for losers afterall if u did ur job properly as a merc ud have won (alright u can have a little as advance pay but u better win if u want the rest) and lets also constitute the idea that one battle could take days oh ya entire planet as the field and it dont end till client runs out of money or 1side gets there ass kicked back into space like the star huggers they are
|
Panoscape
BurgezzE.T.F
107
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 00:11:00 -
[382] - Quote
Cap, no cap, whatever. People will grind no matter what.
What needs to be put in place and functioning is the grouping of simular lvl players in pub matches. Pub games should group players on the basis of their earned SP. If a corp squad is deployed, it looks at the highest toon SP in the squad and puts them all in a corresponding SP lvl game. SP game divisions could be:
D1 = 0 to 1M SP D2 = 1.1M to 3M SP D3 = 3.1M to 6M SP D4 = 6.1M + SP
This would help the noobs from getting stomped on and allow people to grind to their hearts content. It would also provide good competition for high level toons when they join a pub battle, because everyone will have close to the same SP. |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
278
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 00:18:00 -
[383] - Quote
I only get around 900 sp per match, and play for around 3 hours a day, at 18 mins each, thats 10 ambushes, or 9000 sp a day.
PLease don't remove the cap! I suck! My lifetime wp is 90,422
NOOOOOOOOO |
develsgun
Phyrexian Engineering Legacy Rising
19
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 00:32:00 -
[384] - Quote
Panoscape wrote:Cap, no cap, whatever. People will grind no matter what.
What needs to be put in place and functioning is the grouping of simular lvl players in pub matches. Pub games should group players on the basis of their earned SP. If a corp squad is deployed, it looks at the highest toon SP in the squad and puts them all in a corresponding SP lvl game. SP game divisions could be:
D1 = 0 to 1M SP D2 = 1.1M to 3M SP D3 = 3.1M to 6M SP D4 = 6.1M + SP
This would help the noobs from getting stomped on and allow people to grind to their hearts content. It would also provide good competition for high level toons when they join a pub battle, because everyone will have close to the same SP. The instant match maker already does this and I find it very good at it though I havent played with a squad of guys in a diffrent sp range as me and such do not know if it also works as well for squads.
When the trueth is payed attention to we will notice that those suggesting the sp cap are just making excuses for a system to keep them on the top with little work. As Leovarian L Lavitz just showed with his post. CCP just needs the grind to be longer there currently aint enough grind. No sp cap as it wont prevent anything |
Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 00:33:00 -
[385] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:I only get around 900 sp per match, and play for around 3 hours a day, at 18 mins each, thats 10 ambushes, or 9000 sp a day.
PLease don't remove the cap! I suck! My lifetime wp is 90,422
NOOOOOOOOO
If serious...
if you suck that bad kit a logi suit, put two shield extenders, two armor reps, nanoinjector, rep tool and nanohive. Then follow groups of people like a lost puppy repairing them, reviving them and resupplying them. You'll gain WP and make everyone in the game want to hump your leg.
if trolling...
U SuXXrRz n00b! HTFU and L2P! |
Leovarian L Lavitz
Tritan-Industries Legacy Rising
278
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 00:37:00 -
[386] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:I only get around 900 sp per match, and play for around 3 hours a day, at 18 mins each, thats 10 ambushes, or 9000 sp a day.
PLease don't remove the cap! I suck! My lifetime wp is 90,422
NOOOOOOOOO If serious... if you suck that bad kit a logi suit, put two shield extenders, two armor reps, nanoinjector, rep tool and nanohive. Then follow groups of people like a lost puppy repairing them, reviving them and resupplying them. You'll gain WP and make everyone in the game want to hump your leg. if trolling... U SuXXrRz n00b! HTFU and L2P! I'm serious T.T
|
develsgun
Phyrexian Engineering Legacy Rising
19
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 00:37:00 -
[387] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:I only get around 900 sp per match, and play for around 3 hours a day, at 18 mins each, thats 10 ambushes, or 9000 sp a day.
PLease don't remove the cap! I suck! My lifetime wp is 90,422
NOOOOOOOOO If serious... if you suck that bad kit a logi suit, put two shield extenders, two armor reps, nanoinjector, rep tool and nanohive. Then follow groups of people like a lost puppy repairing them, reviving them and resupplying them. You'll gain WP and make everyone in the game want to hump your leg. if trolling... U SuXXrRz n00b! HTFU and L2P! We love are logis especialy when we get out of a fight wiith only are skin left |
Breakin Stuff
Immobile Infantry
680
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 00:41:00 -
[388] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:I only get around 900 sp per match, and play for around 3 hours a day, at 18 mins each, thats 10 ambushes, or 9000 sp a day.
PLease don't remove the cap! I suck! My lifetime wp is 90,422
NOOOOOOOOO If serious... if you suck that bad kit a logi suit, put two shield extenders, two armor reps, nanoinjector, rep tool and nanohive. Then follow groups of people like a lost puppy repairing them, reviving them and resupplying them. You'll gain WP and make everyone in the game want to hump your leg. if trolling... U SuXXrRz n00b! HTFU and L2P! I'm serious T.T
go logi and support people who can shoot then. Warpoints flow to logis who repair, revive and resupply.
The three R's of Warpoint farming. it's how I had to start because, well, I sucked nooby butt too. as the controls become more familiar and as you get better, the meat and potatos of the game (killing scrubs) will begin to flow.
For logi with skill issues, I recomment the mass driver plus flux grenades. Not because they are easy, far from it.
But because if you can learn to consistently massacre people with a mass driver without getting annihilated in a 1v1 every other gun in the game is effing easy mode. |
Xavier Hastings
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
243
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 00:42:00 -
[389] - Quote
I actually support no cap.
People will play as much as they will play and that is that. No need to punish them.
Besides, early players will not get trampled on...
If they fix the matchmaking system. |
Mars El'Theran
Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness
52
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 00:55:00 -
[390] - Quote
Xavier Hastings wrote:I actually support no cap.
People will play as much as they will play and that is that. No need to punish them.
Besides, early players will not get trampled on...
If they fix the matchmaking system.
I'm afraid that isn't possible. The design of Dust follows EVE, and matchmaking is planet and district based. This isn't COD or BF where players can have ranked matches based on a simple number. I'm glad of that actually, but it does tend to involve some difficulty in certain areas.
Closest thing to matchmaking you're going to get, (unless something changes drastically, in a bad way), is avoiding planets where higher SP players choose to play. |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 17 18 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |