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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1155
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 11:56:00 -
[121] - Quote
Sontie wrote:It's in Beta. We are not playing the live game yet. So quit you whining and get into the spirit of playing a Beta.
I wouldn't mind a removal of the SP cap, or make it very high. Sure, some people will start to pull ahead, but this game isn't to dominated by gear as much as tactics and team play. I fear getting blueberries on my team far more than running into one or two geared out people.
Except we already beta tested with no SP cap. And the gap was absolutely insane. And at that time, SP income was way larger. So even though people were way ahead, you could still get a solid char.
With lower SP income. ouch. |
Maken Tosch
Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore
1591
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:03:00 -
[122] - Quote
CCP, this is a bad idea. At least I'm thankful that you are holding off on the removal pending our feedback on the matter. Judging from the feedback on this thread I don't think people here like the idea of removing the SP cap especially given what we experienced during the replication build last year. |
KripnawtiQ Prime
L.O.T.I.S. Legacy Rising
206
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:04:00 -
[123] - Quote
Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:KripnawtiQ Prime wrote:I think the cap we have now would be fine with a roll over system for those that can't cap every day to catch up on days off. Increase the consolation to 1000 sp (enough to make a difference over several matches for those that play a lot) and reduce the time spent in battle to 1wp/second instead of 5wp/second.
No cap at all is just crazy. It will kill this game for players that don't have hours and hours to devote to gaming. So with this rolling cap, we talking at the end of say 7 days if you don't use whats rolled over then you lose the sp? or do you hang on to it forever?
No. Its gone after a week. Then the cap starts over. If you cant find time to earn it after a week then deal with it. |
Mars El'Theran
Red Rogue Squadron Heart 0f Darkness
52
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:05:00 -
[124] - Quote
CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:I would like to explain the reasons on why we are testing the removal of the SP cap and keep you all better informed.
The development team has been listening intently to the tons of feedback from you guys on the skill system, in particular the current skill cap implementation.
Our original aims with the skill cap were to ensure players progressed through the skill tree at a steady pace, to dis-incentivize 24/7 grinding and to maintain a manageable gap between casual and hardcore players. After trying out a couple of different approaches, none of which were satisfactory, we have realized that the skill cap introduces too many other unacceptable compromises and we have decided to take a leaf out of AlexanderGÇÖs book and just cut the Gordian knot and remove the skill cap altogether. Removing the skill cap opens us up to the risk of not meeting the aims stated above, so we have tuned down reward levels a little to reduce that risk.
We believe that these changes will go a long way towards alleviating the problems that you guys have been drawing to our attention, but we will continue to listen to your feedback, monitor progression data and make further tweaks as necessary.
Finally, we are not removing the SP cap today, and will allow time for the community to speak their minds on this first.
We look forward to hearing from you!
You seem to be making a lot of mistakes today. First the $10 each Militia items; then the removal of SP caps so basement dwellers can cap their SP within 6 months to a year, instead of the 5 it's supposed to take.
Honestly, I'm not happy with the direction Dust is taking. I might have spent money to get things here and there before, but this change and that other mean I will likely consign it to the trash bin. You can make gameplay as good as you want; no amount of design is going to make it worth playing with this sort of design. |
Corbina Ninja
Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS.
77
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:06:00 -
[125] - Quote
1000 - 1500 sp per match are too low Will not play this game 24/7 for my 190k sp per week as before probably will not play ever again
someone wants my stuff? |
SoTa PoP
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1772
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:06:00 -
[126] - Quote
Someone needs to make a thread or CCP. In the thread there's two posts, one is in favor of one cap - another in favor of another. Maybe put a third post for a third option. then make every click like on the option they like best.
tally the scores and go with the winner.
Now where's the next build? :D |
Laurent Cazaderon
Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation
1155
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:07:00 -
[127] - Quote
Mars El'Theran wrote:CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:I would like to explain the reasons on why we are testing the removal of the SP cap and keep you all better informed.
The development team has been listening intently to the tons of feedback from you guys on the skill system, in particular the current skill cap implementation.
Our original aims with the skill cap were to ensure players progressed through the skill tree at a steady pace, to dis-incentivize 24/7 grinding and to maintain a manageable gap between casual and hardcore players. After trying out a couple of different approaches, none of which were satisfactory, we have realized that the skill cap introduces too many other unacceptable compromises and we have decided to take a leaf out of AlexanderGÇÖs book and just cut the Gordian knot and remove the skill cap altogether. Removing the skill cap opens us up to the risk of not meeting the aims stated above, so we have tuned down reward levels a little to reduce that risk.
We believe that these changes will go a long way towards alleviating the problems that you guys have been drawing to our attention, but we will continue to listen to your feedback, monitor progression data and make further tweaks as necessary.
Finally, we are not removing the SP cap today, and will allow time for the community to speak their minds on this first.
We look forward to hearing from you!
You seem to be making a lot of mistakes today. First the $10 each Militia items; then the removal of SP caps so basement dwellers can cap their SP within 6 months to a year, instead of the 5 it's supposed to take. Honestly, I'm not happy with the direction Dust is taking. I might have spent money to get things here and there before, but this change and that other mean I will likely consign it to the trash bin. You can make gameplay as good as you want; no amount of design is going to make it worth playing with this sort of design.
Harsh, but not untrue. |
mikegunnz
Pink Fluffy Bounty Hunterz RISE of LEGION
425
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:08:00 -
[128] - Quote
Ive said it before, and ill say it again.... Im ok with a cap, just not a hard cap, just a soft one. Make cap weekly, and once you hit cap, player earns 20 or 25% of original sp, until reset. This is a compromise. (IMO) |
Forlorn Destrier
ZionTCD Legacy Rising
914
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:11:00 -
[129] - Quote
My thoughts: you can't please everyone. We had a weekly cap (what amounts to a rolling cap) and people complained that they weren't getting anything after a couple of days. So, they gave a daily cap and people complained that they didn't want to have to play every day. You take the cap away, and people fear the gap between players. There is no winning situation here, as someone will be unhappy, and whoever is unhappy will be the most vocal based on human nature.
The biggest problem is not the skill cap, but that polling should have occurred. Instead of looking at the negative posts, active polling of opinions would have been better. Perhaps a poll you were required to take every week regarding the status? This is the root problem with the testing thus far, as far as I can tell. |
Sha Kharn Clone
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1087
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:12:00 -
[130] - Quote
Ok so let me understand this.
An average player in ambush might get 10 kills and a bunch of assists earning letGÇÖs say 1000 war points. Now assume it takes 15min per ambush to include bio brakes, reforming squads, restocking and loading times etc.
ThatGÇÖs 4000 sp per hour.
At the moment with the daily cap I earn 40,000 SP in about 2 hours but this new system will take me 10 hours of grinding to get to the same place.
Now donGÇÖt forget the people out there earning 100 sp per game who suck a little. ThatGÇÖs 100 hours to keep up with John Doe. CCP we know your reading all our feedback on this so how on earth are you capable of taking something awful such as the SP system and making it even worse?
I know itGÇÖs not the attitude but I kinda give up on this. CCP will do as they see fit and I will just have to adapt to whatever comes out the evil lab in Iceland.
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SoTa PoP
Internal Error. Negative-Feedback
1772
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:14:00 -
[131] - Quote
Sha Kharn Clone wrote: I know itGÇÖs not the attitude but I kinda give up on this. CCP will do as they see fit and I will just have to adapt to whatever comes out the evil lab in Iceland.
This cracked me up and reminded me why I love alcohol so much. |
Yay Adski
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
133
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:14:00 -
[132] - Quote
Remove the cap or down with CCP! Seriously though all it is on here nerf AR's, nerf suits, nerf SP, nerf everything! What happened to the brutal world of tough ****? I expected to be greeted by a harsh cruel world but instead it's just been sissified by people non stop calling for nerfs because it doesn't go with what they want. They then tell you to HTFU after they complained about all this stuff in the first place. /rant |
Sha Kharn Clone
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
1087
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:23:00 -
[133] - Quote
Yea I guess itGÇÖs adapt or die a lot time.
Now for those of you that want to be competitive but have real lives I can give you some tips.
Firstly lets cover marriage. ItGÇÖs expensive and is a massive time sink. Both the time and the money could be better spent so go see a lawyer and get that out the way. If you have a home left after the divorce I would suggest sell sell sell and get a 12 by 12 box to live in (you wonGÇÖt have time to maintain anything else).
You will still need to eat so a microwave right next to the sofa is a must.
Delete Facebook account and change your phone number to prevent unwelcome distractions.
Other than that all I can say is good luck ladies and lads see you on the battlefield.
|
Torr Wrath
Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
58
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:25:00 -
[134] - Quote
Flyingconejo wrote:Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:You know, I find it kinda funni. I think ppl that want a roll over cap just don't want to be left behind in the dust Sorry bro, but that's not true. I can play a lot of hours each day. Cazaderon and a lot of other players I see not wanting this change also play a lot. So no SP cap would benefit us, actually. We would have an advantage over people that can't play as much. We don't want this change because we think it would be bad for the game, not because we think it would be bad for us. xAckie wrote: What's your concern? People will get ahead? People will always have more SP than others.
There is no way to fix this outcome under any system.
You have a point in that people will always get ahead. My concern is that a lot of people will get too far ahead too soon, when we still don't have a playerbase big enough to endure it. Dust needs a big playerbase to survive. Open beta starts today, a lot of newbies are coming to Dust. When those newbies start leaving Dust in a month because they can't keep up with all the protogear and protovehicles thrown at them, we are not only losing those players. We are losing any other player they know through bad press and word of mouth. If we had a system to separate new players implemented (like hisec, lowsec, nulsec); maybe I would not dislike the no sp cap idea so much. But as it is, I think it is a very bad idea.
This sums it up nicely.
I wouldnt mind if the sp granted at the end of game after you hit the cap was raised, even if it was to 20% of what you would have gained. But I played in the open beta, and that massive skill difference between me (who had to work) compared to those who played constantly and easily had 20 mill+ SP in no time is one of the reasons I -stopped- playing beta for a game I really wanted to help.
Ideally by the time people trudge up to that point here, you will have other things for those high sp characters to do other than pub stomp. If you remove the cap they will hit the cap so fast that no one (save for others like themselves) will have a chance.
I know there have been a lot of "Remove SP cap" threads. I know that lots of them dont have people saying its a bad idea. But part of that is because at least a few (and probably lots more than just a few) of -US- thought -YOU- already knew that, and we didnt want to feed the trolls. |
C Saunders
Serenity Prime Kraken.
158
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:31:00 -
[135] - Quote
I vote daily roll over cap!! |
Toyboi
BetaMax.
17
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:33:00 -
[136] - Quote
Why wont ccp considder this?
leave passive as it is. but let the rolling over of active sp carry on forever. even for totaly new chars that will mean that after a year (just using numbers as a examble) you would hit cap at maybe 20mil sp. that would mean new players could catch up the old players. the catching up part is a big turn off for ppl who might else would giving eve a chance. plz dont shoot me for surgesting this! |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:35:00 -
[137] - Quote
2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:I would like to explain the reasons on why we are testing the removal of the SP cap and keep you all better informed.
The development team has been listening intently to the tons of feedback from you guys on the skill system, in particular the current skill cap implementation.
Our original aims with the skill cap were to ensure players progressed through the skill tree at a steady pace, to dis-incentivize 24/7 grinding and to maintain a manageable gap between casual and hardcore players. After trying out a couple of different approaches, none of which were satisfactory, we have realized that the skill cap introduces too many other unacceptable compromises and we have decided to take a leaf out of AlexanderGÇÖs book and just cut the Gordian knot and remove the skill cap altogether. Removing the skill cap opens us up to the risk of not meeting the aims stated above, so we have tuned down reward levels a little to reduce that risk.
We believe that these changes will go a long way towards alleviating the problems that you guys have been drawing to our attention, but we will continue to listen to your feedback, monitor progression data and make further tweaks as necessary.
Finally, we are not removing the SP cap today, and will allow time for the community to speak their minds on this first.
We look forward to hearing from you!
I for one personally welcome our new Chinese SP farming overlords. But without disrespecting or making any less of our new Bot-ing SP farming overlords. Hope you guys know the can of worms your opening........ *Double Facepalm CCP Btw thats money you wont be seeing... Farmers and bot-ers will be. Your money... their pockets CCP.
You do realize when ccp has secondary market up that all aurum items will be sell able for isk.
Also specializations have their own caps if you don't see that then you're not thinking far ahead. |
steadyhand amarr
Imperfects Negative-Feedback
338
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:36:00 -
[138] - Quote
What we want is a rolling cap so their is a maximum a player can reach. But if he falls behind he can do he best to catch up. This way new guys can get competitive faster and stops the hardcores from raceing ahead. A year down the line new players might not even realize their cap. Put another way we don't want to be punished when real life gets in the way |
Tyjus Vacca
Valor Coalition RISE of LEGION
8
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:38:00 -
[139] - Quote
dont do it CCP! taking away the cap will really hurt the game. |
Groza Tragediya
Opus Arcana Orion Empire
72
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:39:00 -
[140] - Quote
Well this cant be good. I preferred a weekly cap. I understand youre trying to listen to the community, but a sp cap is necessary. |
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Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:43:00 -
[141] - Quote
Maybe if they had some sort of fluxing reward over time, something to remind players 'hey take a break' even if its just for an hour or two and return to their normal lives a short bit. Similar to how fast you can WP gain in matches. |
Corbina Ninja
Maphia Clan Corporation CRONOS.
77
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:43:00 -
[142] - Quote
Sha Kharn Clone wrote: ... You will still need to eat so a microwave right next to the sofa is a must. ...
Eating is a waste of time inject an intravenous drip is better |
Avon GOODLIFFE
The Brotherhood of Mars
2
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:43:00 -
[143] - Quote
I have to say DUST514 are spoilt bunch.
I have only been playing for 1 week. But have been Playing EVEONLINE for 7 years. In EVE you dont get extra Skill Points after every battle that allows you to instantly learn a skill. You earn Skill Points by learing a Skill. To level up a skill in EVE can take from as lttle as 5 mins to over 30 days and thats just to learn 1 level of a particular skill. Thankfully you dont have to be online as you do learn the skill passivly while offline.
I understand that Dust is a completly different styte of game. Its the fast food equivilant to the fine dining that is EVE Online. So things have to work at a pace much quicker. But with the OPEN BETA it seems to me the removal of the CAP is designed to give those who have 0 skills to develope skills quicly and not be put off from a game already filled with far better trained players when they begin to get raped.
Remember its still BETA but if we want a successful complete game with lots of players, then an open beta is the time to encourage new players by allowing them to see full potential now so they will want to play on final release and not scare them off by making it too hard in BETA. The more players we have at final release the better chance of DUST surviving. |
Iron Wolf Saber
BetaMax.
2867
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:46:00 -
[144] - Quote
Avon GOODLIFFE wrote:I have to say DUST514 are spoilt bunch.
I have only been playing for 1 week. But have been Playing EVEONLINE for 7 years. In EVE you dont get extra Skill Points after every battle that allows you to instantly learn a skill. You earn Skill Points by learing a Skill. To level up a skill in EVE can take from as lttle as 5 mins to over 30 days and thats just to learn 1 level of a particular skill. Thankfully you dont have to be online as you do learn the skill passivly while offline.
I understand that Dust is a completly different styte of game. Its the fast food equivilant to the fine dining that is EVE Online. So things have to work at a pace much quicker. But with the OPEN BETA it seems to me the removal of the CAP is designed to give those who have 0 skills to develope skills quicly and not be put off from a game already filled with far better trained players when they begin to get raped.
Remember its still BETA but if we want a successful complete game with lots of players, then an open beta is the time to encourage new players by allowing them to see full potential now so they will want to play on final release and not scare them off by making it too hard in BETA. The more players we have at final release the better chance of DUST surviving.
The problem is that this is a different crowd of people we're dealing with, an FPSer strives for progression constantly and by having active component accomplishes quite a bit of it until more content is brought in.
Also I already did the militia experiment for a few builds. Its so far Gear < EXP < Skills in the progression triad, Skills are most prominent that no matter what crappy suit you're wearing you are going to wreck someone's days. True new people will get curb stomped by skilled proto people but proto people barely get the isk to cover even 1 death. New players would have to go almost 0-50 to not make back the isk lost in militia gear and ultimately bad players in proto gear and high skill points still get curb stomped by skilled players in militia gear. I've proven this multiple times and I am only 'average'.
Right now however there is nothing to encourage players to try to 'skill up' in terms of their own playing, maybe an active/passive certificate system would do. |
x0scarMike
Talon Strike Force LTD Sleepless Knights Alliance
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:46:00 -
[145] - Quote
I think the weekly cap is the way to go because if you remove the cap, you are going lose some casual players. |
Stephenious
Bragian Order Amarr Empire
2
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:46:00 -
[146] - Quote
Removing the cap but reducing payouts hurts the casual gamer. I may only be able to play 2-3 games a night and not every day. |
droidb0ne
BetaMax.
12
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:55:00 -
[147] - Quote
Remove it |
Duke Noobiam
Free Kandee Covert Intervention
0
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:56:00 -
[148] - Quote
I only have one question for CCP...
How do you kill, that which has no life? |
Jason Pearson
Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS.
742
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 12:58:00 -
[149] - Quote
The SP System is very easy to figure out tbh.
Let's imagine we've just reset and they've introduced a new system based on this idea.
22/01/2013 The SP "Pool" is currently at 28,000 SP (+25% with Booster) 23/01/2013 The SP "Pool" is currently at 56,000 SP (+25% with Booster) 24/01/2013 The SP "Pool" is currently at 84,000 SP (+25% with Booster)
So you can see everyday the Pool raises by 28,000 SP, this never gets reset and doesn't matter if its a new player or a vet, the pool will be the same. In 365 days the pool will be 102,200,000 SP, now ofcourse this is a large amount and probably wouldn't be that much, but the point is, everyday the pool gets larger and larger, keeping the no lifers at bay but still allowing players to catch up if they've been off on holiday for two weeks.
Thoughts? |
Arramakaian Eka
Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic
363
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 13:00:00 -
[150] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:The problem is that this is a different crowd of people we're dealing with, an FPSer strives for progression constantly and by having active component accomplishes quite a bit of it until more content is brought in.
No. What you call "progression" are actually unlocks, and those are relatively recent phenomenon in FPSs - mainly designed to compensate for poor core gameplay, and to sell DLC and microtransactions. |
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