DUST Search - [Updated] Full Removal of the SP Cap

CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:

I would like to explain the reasons on why we are testing the removal of the SP cap and keep you all better informed.

The development team has been listening intently to the tons of feedback from you guys on the skill system, in particular the current skill cap implementation.

Our original aims with the skill cap were to ensure players progressed through the skill tree at a steady pace, to dis-incentivize 24/7 grinding and to maintain a manageable gap between casual and hardcore players. After trying out a couple of different approaches, none of which were satisfactory, we have realized that the skill cap introduces too many other unacceptable compromises and we have decided to take a leaf out of AlexanderGÇÖs book and just cut the Gordian knot and remove the skill cap altogether. Removing the skill cap opens us up to the risk of not meeting the aims stated above, so we have tuned down reward levels a little to reduce that risk.

We believe that these changes will go a long way towards alleviating the problems that you guys have been drawing to our attention, but we will continue to listen to your feedback, monitor progression data and make further tweaks as necessary.

Finally, we are not removing the SP cap today, and will allow time for the community to speak their minds on this first.

We look forward to hearing from you!

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1903	Posted - 2013.01.22 09:20:00 - [31] - Quote This is seriously the worst thing I've heard since I joined the Beta in March. I guess CCP doesn't want a 7 year skill tree like they said, even if they were planning on riding on 4 versions of each skill there's no way, there are plenty of no lifers out there who will grind away into oblivion, inflating their sense of skill by gaining a huge leg up over those who can't afford to dedicate their life to a game. Seriously upset by this news.
Repe Susi Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 249	Posted - 2013.01.22 09:21:00 - [32] - Quote Oh hell no!
Superluminal Replicant Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 35	Posted - 2013.01.22 09:23:00 - [33] - Quote This is so bullshit lol, cant believe your all falling for this.
Entrei Blackstorm ZionTCD Legacy Rising 49	Posted - 2013.01.22 09:23:00 - [34] - Quote I was about to say this is yet another kick in the nuts, but reading the chat log the dev says "we're taking down the SP from time a bit." It suggests to me it isn't just wp=sp. sp from time will just be reduced. Let's see the results first.
tribal wyvern ZionTCD Legacy Rising 673	Posted - 2013.01.22 09:25:00 - [35] - Quote Yay Adski wrote: Woohoo about damn time People still complain that someone will be ahead of them, play smarter With no sp cap it means people work up the proverbial ladder too quick, before you know it people are rockin proto again after a week of playing, then there's no carrot being dangled in front of people, nothing to work for/unlock. Remember how boring bf3 got after unlocking EVERYTHING in just over a month?
olssam 62 What The French 37	Posted - 2013.01.22 09:27:00 - [36] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: So, i heard from a dev confirmation that today they want to REMOVE the sp cap entirely. Reducing the AFK SP earned and keeping the 1 WP = 1 SP deal. Just thought you guys would like to know about what i consider to be a giant mistake. Say hello to Dust 247. Where no life teenage grinders from all around the world are kings. We are not April 1st yet ...
Quill Killian Better Hide R Die 107	Posted - 2013.01.22 09:30:00 - [37] - Quote Perhaps CCP could adjust the passive skill point gain so it goes up to 1 point per second. That way, folks who have obligations other than playing Dust 514 every day for several hours GÇö and that includes me, when I'm not on vacation GÇö can somewhat "keep up with the Joneses." Still, I think the best fair solution would be to keep a weekly, rolling cap set at anywhere from 500,000 to 1 milliion points. But, that's just me, and I'm tired right now, so I might not be thinking all that clearly. My bed beckons ...
Returner Tekki ZionTCD Legacy Rising 24	Posted - 2013.01.22 09:33:00 - [38] - Quote I'd rather have a cap, the no lifer are going to rule the game.
Arramakaian Eka Tronhadar Free Guard Minmatar Republic 363	Posted - 2013.01.22 09:36:00 - [39] - Quote Dust has a really steep learning curve. Now CCP wants to also make it harder to keep up with the nolifers. Makes sense if you want to entirely kill the game for casuals and people who actually work - ie. have money to spend on your game.
DUST Fiend Immobile Infantry 1903	Posted - 2013.01.22 09:37:00 - [40] - Quote Returner Tekki wrote: I'd rather have a cap, the no lifer are going to rule the game. The strongest corps in the game will have no members over the age of 14, guaranteed.

Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2013.01.22 09:39:00 - [41] - Quote I just love how some people seem to imply that with no cap, the ones who play best will be rewarded. I even saw a "play smarter" crap. Wake up, playing more doesnt mean you're a better player.
DJINN leukoplast Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 288	Posted - 2013.01.22 09:44:00 - [42] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: So, i heard from a dev confirmation that today they want to REMOVE the sp cap entirely. Reducing the AFK SP earned and keeping the 1 WP = 1 SP deal. Just thought you guys would like to know about what i consider to be a giant mistake. Say hello to Dust 247. Where no life teenage grinders from all around the world are kings. The game would die near instantly if that was the case. CCP surely has more brains that this. No life 24/7 players in top 10 leaderboards after 11 days have already gotten more kills than I did in 2-1/2 months of daily playing at 3-5 hours.
Sloan Regal ZionTCD Legacy Rising 27	Posted - 2013.01.22 09:46:00 - [43] - Quote Damn.....I bitched yesterday about the current, or rather, previous SP CAP eluding to having issues as someone who "worked for a living." However, removing the SP cap entirely was not what the direction I wanted CCP to go. There were a number of suggestions that I could have lived with, but removing the cap entirely sounds like a knee-jerk reaction to whiners. CCP has some innovative developers; I hope this is just a temporary change.
crazy space 2100046106 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2013.01.22 09:58:00 - [44] - Quote Why won't they do a soft cap? You know if you earn 24 k sp your sp rewards are lowered to 20% returns for the day. It's not a hard cap but casual players won't get left in the dust. Does anyone agree with me ?
crazy space 2100046106 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2013.01.22 10:00:00 - [45] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: I just love how some people seem to imply that with no cap, the ones who play best will be rewarded. I even saw a "play smarter" crap. Wake up, playing more doesnt mean you're a better player. Another big issue in play is rewards for fights are way to high. If there isn't going to be a cap then going 0-8 and getting 100 war points shouldn't net you 7500 sp . What the flying ****
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2013.01.22 10:00:00 - [46] - Quote DJINN leukoplast wrote: Laurent Cazaderon wrote: So, i heard from a dev confirmation that today they want to REMOVE the sp cap entirely. Reducing the AFK SP earned and keeping the 1 WP = 1 SP deal. Just thought you guys would like to know about what i consider to be a giant mistake. Say hello to Dust 247. Where no life teenage grinders from all around the world are kings. The game would die near instantly if that was the case. CCP surely has more brains that this. No life 24/7 players in top 10 leaderboards after 11 days have already gotten more kills than I did in 2-1/2 months of daily playing at 3-5 hours. Thank you as well. CCP, before making that move. Just make the math of how much more SP top players in kills (and thus top players in free time to play) would get over a regular dude that's probably around 800-1000 kills. And that number is just for around 10 days of playing. And knowing those guy may have played even more with no cap. Dude with 5000 Kills => base kill WP : 250000 WP = 250000 SP just with the kills. => Estimated other source of WP. Say kills are 60% of the guys WP which is already huge : 250000/0.6 - 250000 = 165000 WP\SP => Estimated time based SP. Say sp gen in battle is reduced to 1 sec = 2 SP and dude goes around 20 kills per game, 15 minutes a game. Again, huge estimations, could be very much worse : so 5000/20x15x60x2= 450 000 SP. Total : 865 K SP Dude with 800 kills => Base WP kill : 40000 => Estimated other SP source : 25 000 => Passive sp in battle : Say a game is around 10 kills for that kind of dude.15 minutes games : 144 000 SP Total : 209 K Sp And that's for something like 10 days of playing time !! and i'm pretty sure real numbers would be even worse as there's no way kills are 60% of a guy's revenu in WP. Assists, hack, commissions, vehicle destroyed, etc.. Same goes with the estimation for time spent in battle. Bottom line, stupid numbers = stupid idea.
crazy space 2100046106 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2013.01.22 10:02:00 - [47] - Quote You know what.... Maybe no cap is ok.... If there is a bonus xp build up.pool. so if you only play 1 hour a day you get a huge chunk of sp so you can catch up. Most mmos have this feature ....
xAckie Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising 125	Posted - 2013.01.22 10:04:00 - [48] - Quote I haven't paid for boosters etc. only the -ú1.59p for the UVT. This makes it more likely for me to buy a booster. And to be honest after 5/7million SP what does it matter, the base of your chosen character will be built. Sure you might want o try other things/ routes etc. but to actually get into the game and play you dont need 10s of millions of SP to build a character. We also dont know the new skill routes that will be added. We cant have seen any of the real ones if this game is going to take 7 years to skill into all of them. Or their multipliers. Finally, even under the cap people who play more get ahead and the others cant catch up - and people would never be able to catch up. People in my corp are already 400,000 sp ahead of me. No system is perfect. I guess this route allows newccmers to grind to get a decent build if they eant and then drop in and out f the game as they please.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2013.01.22 10:07:00 - [49] - Quote [CCP]nothin just said on IRC this change isnt making it in today. Hopefully it wont. ever.
crazy space 2100046106 ZionTCD Legacy Rising 879	Posted - 2013.01.22 10:09:00 - [50] - Quote ExRDV Pilot wrote: dust was never supposed to have cap afaik play more, get more SP, get more skills, progress faster. and finally all boosters work fine if you want to use thme. Um bit in other mmos casual players get sp at an accelerated rate. Daily bonus exp pool , and lower rewards n battle. Maybe daily achievements for sp. Have you seen how Giuld wars 2 does it ? 1000 sp for getting 5 head shots. 1500 sp for getting 20 kills with the pistol. So on. They would reset every single day. I think halo4 does thus as well as ps2.

Y0UR NAME HERE Imperfects Negative-Feedback 441	Posted - 2013.01.22 10:11:00 - [51] - Quote mmmmmmmmmmmmm and mmmmmmmmmm can smell that proto gear already, lets see, full proto in 3 days tops? mmmmmmmmm u gunna lovz my lasers meow, I have 3 days off and no flight school someone pinch me and wake me up :D nom nom.....oh yaaaa btw the mmmmmmmmmmmmm's are like eric cartman rolling in jew gold.
Buzzin Fr0g KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 85	Posted - 2013.01.22 10:13:00 - [52] - Quote Uh-oh... Shhhhhhhhiiiiiiii..............!.... And the "skill" component takes a nose dive, becoming as elusive as the yeti (if this becomes implemented).
Andrea Auroras Celtic Anarchy 7	Posted - 2013.01.22 10:16:00 - [53] - Quote I'm not getting into the whole should/shouldn't guff but as ccp is going to be trying to attract new players, they are competing with the likes of COD, BF3 and the like. For a totally new person to the world of eve and one who's been spoon fed easy upgrades, perks, guns, mods etc from these games the SP cap could be the deal breaker. I'm not saying it's the best direction for the game, (weekly rollover sp cap would be perfect imho) but for the business it makes sense.
Buzzin Fr0g KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 85	Posted - 2013.01.22 10:16:00 - [54] - Quote Laurent Cazaderon wrote: [CCP]nothin just said on IRC this change isnt making it in today. Hopefully it wont. ever. Awesome.

CCP Cmdr Wang C C P C C P Alliance 1876	Posted - 2013.01.22 10:19:00 - [55] - Quote I would like to explain the reasons on why we are testing the removal of the SP cap and keep you all better informed. The development team has been listening intently to the tons of feedback from you guys on the skill system, in particular the current skill cap implementation. Our original aims with the skill cap were to ensure players progressed through the skill tree at a steady pace, to dis-incentivize 24/7 grinding and to maintain a manageable gap between casual and hardcore players. After trying out a couple of different approaches, none of which were satisfactory, we have realized that the skill cap introduces too many other unacceptable compromises and we have decided to take a leaf out of AlexanderGÇÖs book and just cut the Gordian knot and remove the skill cap altogether. Removing the skill cap opens us up to the risk of not meeting the aims stated above, so we have tuned down reward levels a little to reduce that risk. We believe that these changes will go a long way towards alleviating the problems that you guys have been drawing to our attention, but we will continue to listen to your feedback, monitor progression data and make further tweaks as necessary. Finally, we are not removing the SP cap today, and will allow time for the community to speak their minds on this first. We look forward to hearing from you!

Y0UR NAME HERE Imperfects Negative-Feedback 441	Posted - 2013.01.22 10:24:00 - [56] - Quote CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: I would like to explain the reasons on why we are testing the removal of the SP cap and keep you all better informed. The development team has been listening intently to the tons of feedback from you guys on the skill system, in particular the current skill cap implementation. Our original aims with the skill cap were to ensure players progressed through the skill tree at a steady pace, to dis-incentivize 24/7 grinding and to maintain a manageable gap between casual and hardcore players. After trying out a couple of different approaches, none of which were satisfactory, we have realized that the skill cap introduces too many other unacceptable compromises and we have decided to take a leaf out of AlexanderGÇÖs book and just cut the Gordian knot and remove the skill cap altogether. Removing the skill cap opens us up to the risk of not meeting the aims stated above, so we have tuned down reward levels a little to reduce that risk. We believe that these changes will go a long way towards alleviating the problems that you guys have been drawing to our attention, but we will continue to listen to your feedback, monitor progression data and make further tweaks as necessary. Finally, we are not removing the SP cap today, and will allow time for the community to speak their minds on this first. We look forward to hearing from you! May I be the first to say, I love you commander wang, down with the SP CAP!
Gauder Berwyck Deadly Blue Dots RISE of LEGION 217	Posted - 2013.01.22 10:24:00 - [57] - Quote Thanks for the reply Wang, and the only advice I can give is a weekly rolling cap.
2-Ton Twenty-One Imperfects Negative-Feedback 235	Posted - 2013.01.22 10:25:00 - [58] - Quote CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: I would like to explain the reasons on why we are testing the removal of the SP cap and keep you all better informed. The development team has been listening intently to the tons of feedback from you guys on the skill system, in particular the current skill cap implementation. Our original aims with the skill cap were to ensure players progressed through the skill tree at a steady pace, to dis-incentivize 24/7 grinding and to maintain a manageable gap between casual and hardcore players. After trying out a couple of different approaches, none of which were satisfactory, we have realized that the skill cap introduces too many other unacceptable compromises and we have decided to take a leaf out of AlexanderGÇÖs book and just cut the Gordian knot and remove the skill cap altogether. Removing the skill cap opens us up to the risk of not meeting the aims stated above, so we have tuned down reward levels a little to reduce that risk. We believe that these changes will go a long way towards alleviating the problems that you guys have been drawing to our attention, but we will continue to listen to your feedback, monitor progression data and make further tweaks as necessary. Finally, we are not removing the SP cap today, and will allow time for the community to speak their minds on this first. We look forward to hearing from you! I for one personally welcome our new Chinese SP farming overlords. But without disrespecting or making any less of our new Bot-ing SP farming overlords. Hope you guys know the can of worms your opening........ *Double Facepalm CCP Btw thats money you wont be seeing... Farmers and bot-ers will be. Your money... their pockets CCP.
Buzzin Fr0g KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 85	Posted - 2013.01.22 10:26:00 - [59] - Quote CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: I would like to explain the reasons on why we are testing the removal of the SP cap and keep you all better informed. The development team has been listening intently to the tons of feedback from you guys on the skill system, in particular the current skill cap implementation. Our original aims with the skill cap were to ensure players progressed through the skill tree at a steady pace, to dis-incentivize 24/7 grinding and to maintain a manageable gap between casual and hardcore players. After trying out a couple of different approaches, none of which were satisfactory, we have realized that the skill cap introduces too many other unacceptable compromises and we have decided to take a leaf out of AlexanderGÇÖs book and just cut the Gordian knot and remove the skill cap altogether. Removing the skill cap opens us up to the risk of not meeting the aims stated above, so we have tuned down reward levels a little to reduce that risk. We believe that these changes will go a long way towards alleviating the problems that you guys have been drawing to our attention, but we will continue to listen to your feedback, monitor progression data and make further tweaks as necessary. Finally, we are not removing the SP cap today, and will allow time for the community to speak their minds on this first. We look forward to hearing from you! Maintain the current system, but include SP rollover and increase the gratis xp from 50 to 700 or so (incentive enough to continue playing sans meaningful corporate warfare, but low enough to ensure not too much of an advantage can be gained) and you're on the money in my opinion.
Laurent Cazaderon Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 1155	Posted - 2013.01.22 10:26:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: I would like to explain the reasons on why we are testing the removal of the SP cap and keep you all better informed. The development team has been listening intently to the tons of feedback from you guys on the skill system, in particular the current skill cap implementation. Our original aims with the skill cap were to ensure players progressed through the skill tree at a steady pace, to dis-incentivize 24/7 grinding and to maintain a manageable gap between casual and hardcore players. After trying out a couple of different approaches, none of which were satisfactory, we have realized that the skill cap introduces too many other unacceptable compromises and we have decided to take a leaf out of AlexanderGÇÖs book and just cut the Gordian knot and remove the skill cap altogether. Removing the skill cap opens us up to the risk of not meeting the aims stated above, so we have tuned down reward levels a little to reduce that risk. We believe that these changes will go a long way towards alleviating the problems that you guys have been drawing to our attention, but we will continue to listen to your feedback, monitor progression data and make further tweaks as necessary. Finally, we are not removing the SP cap today, and will allow time for the community to speak their minds on this first. We look forward to hearing from you! Nice to hear from you. But honestly i dont see a "no cap system" working ever. Also you mention listening to the feedback from the community but we never saw any SP system that fully followed the community's wishes. During weekly cap, we were asking for no diminishing return so cap wouldnt be reach too fast. Then with the daily, people starting complaining about missing on SP and mentionned how having a rolling cap would be a good solution to avoid that daily chore feeling. I could link dozens, and even more threads regarding SP system suggestion. And the vast majority of those suggestions would include keeping a cap ! So i really have a problem believing the "in response to your feedback" thing on that one. Also, i'd love to know more about the "unacceptable compromises" ? Cause i dont see them either. It's pretty obvious what SP system the MAJORITY of players would enjoy : Capped with a SP bank so a late guy can still get the chance to invest more time now and then and catch up with the dudes that are on the top of the SP ladder. But no cap ? You're turning SP into veldspar mining ! Got time ? play music, grab a snipe, a snack and go grind random noobs.



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