DUST Search - [Updated] Full Removal of the SP Cap

CCP Cmdr Wang wrote:

I would like to explain the reasons on why we are testing the removal of the SP cap and keep you all better informed.

The development team has been listening intently to the tons of feedback from you guys on the skill system, in particular the current skill cap implementation.

Our original aims with the skill cap were to ensure players progressed through the skill tree at a steady pace, to dis-incentivize 24/7 grinding and to maintain a manageable gap between casual and hardcore players. After trying out a couple of different approaches, none of which were satisfactory, we have realized that the skill cap introduces too many other unacceptable compromises and we have decided to take a leaf out of AlexanderGÇÖs book and just cut the Gordian knot and remove the skill cap altogether. Removing the skill cap opens us up to the risk of not meeting the aims stated above, so we have tuned down reward levels a little to reduce that risk.

We believe that these changes will go a long way towards alleviating the problems that you guys have been drawing to our attention, but we will continue to listen to your feedback, monitor progression data and make further tweaks as necessary.

Finally, we are not removing the SP cap today, and will allow time for the community to speak their minds on this first.

We look forward to hearing from you!

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Orlando Rez UnReaL. 21	Posted - 2013.02.10 09:43:00 - [481] - Quote I welcome this no SP cap thing... & before anyone says anything, I do have a life - wife/2 beautiful little girls/ job... with that said.. i hit the weekly cap in 4 days, i have about 4 hrs a game time while my wife is at work, this no SP cap would allow to catch up to the other guys that got to skill up before the last wipe, I also feel like my real money is going to waste because of this cap(1500).. or just do ANOTHER wipe with a cap so everyone can be equal footing here..
Sete Clifton PSU GHOST SYNDICATE 67	Posted - 2013.02.10 10:22:00 - [482] - Quote nevermind
Gemini Cuspid Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 3	Posted - 2013.02.10 10:39:00 - [483] - Quote My vote is "unrestricted skill cap bad". I'm go ahead and take a page from mmo's and vote for tiered skill points and I want to say it's a feature that a few MMO's have in place and call the "fatigue system". When a character isn't in battle they're considered "resting" and get bonus skill points. A player can then continue battling to gain SP but without any bonuses. Once they hit a the upper ceiling limit, then their SP dive down to half. Then if they still choose to exp it dives down to 1/4 normal SP earned. Whenever they log or aren't in battle their fatigue gets reduced. Having a fatigue system is a bit more appealing where the casual players get buffed a bit faster but exponentially; vets get exp and don't give up playing the whole week because they hit the cap and it lets players progress faster if they choose to grind but they won't have a "head and shoulders" advantage over other players to the extent where it's ridiculous. I get the idea that no caps = more players online but it also seems to create a bad schism between players who are skilled and others who are just using their equipment advantage to improve their performance of the game. The idea is not to make it an equal footing for everyone; should players who play longer get penalized versus those who play less? That said we shouldn't also create a pandemic where playing longer is a reward in itself. At least a fatigue system allows a border between those who plays longer, those who dont and how successful they are in the game; a good player who plays casually can take advantage of bonus exp to catch up faster versus their peers to those who play longer while players who play longer can take advantage of the higher overall exp without exp'ing endlessly and being untouchable by half the players in the game...
Darkstar Matari MoG Militia 16	Posted - 2013.02.10 10:44:00 - [484] - Quote Guys, this thread is nearly a month old. This idea was dropped in favour of the weekly+softcap we have now, that we all voted on. CCP are working on some sort of weekly+rollover as the final SP implementation, but we don't have any concrete details on this afaik. Please, just let this thread die again. We don't need even more confusion on SP cap stuff.
WASTED MERC The Southern Legion 4	Posted - 2013.02.10 11:22:00 - [485] - Quote judging by the fact they cant fix the market lag bug, cant fix the injector bug and cant fix other fundamental bugs and issues, i seriously doubt they can program the logic to do weekly roll over
Heinz Doofenshertz BetaMax. 360	Posted - 2013.02.10 11:34:00 - [486] - Quote Market bug fixed in next build, injector fixed in next build, most of the bugs we have reported have been fixed in the next build. you need to read more dude
WASTED MERC The Southern Legion 4	Posted - 2013.02.10 14:09:00 - [487] - Quote i dont need too read more, they need to fix more these issues, especially the market lag bug is very very annoying, much more annoying then having a 0.1 k/d ratio cause im a **** player its so annoying its the reason I stopped playing in way back in September, only to start again last week to experience the same damn annoying issues... next build, lol, thats funny
N1ck Comeau REGULATORS OF VALOR Orion Empire 37	Posted - 2013.02.10 14:24:00 - [488] - Quote CCP Cmdr Wang wrote: I would like to explain the reasons on why we are testing the removal of the SP cap and keep you all better informed. The development team has been listening intently to the tons of feedback from you guys on the skill system, in particular the current skill cap implementation. Our original aims with the skill cap were to ensure players progressed through the skill tree at a steady pace, to dis-incentivize 24/7 grinding and to maintain a manageable gap between casual and hardcore players. After trying out a couple of different approaches, none of which were satisfactory, we have realized that the skill cap introduces too many other unacceptable compromises and we have decided to take a leaf out of AlexanderGÇÖs book and just cut the Gordian knot and remove the skill cap altogether. Removing the skill cap opens us up to the risk of not meeting the aims stated above, so we have tuned down reward levels a little to reduce that risk. We believe that these changes will go a long way towards alleviating the problems that you guys have been drawing to our attention, but we will continue to listen to your feedback, monitor progression data and make further tweaks as necessary. Finally, we are not removing the SP cap today, and will allow time for the community to speak their minds on this first. We look forward to hearing from you! Why do we need to change it? I was happy with the skill cap we have now, if you're a casual player then u wont hit the cap, no big deal there still gonna be earning as much sp as they want to earn
slystylz vassar BurgezzE.T.F 7	Posted - 2013.02.10 15:01:00 - [489] - Quote We have a separation of playing style. Grinders and Casual, this system change is attempt to satisfy both? I think we need more features in this system. Like battle levels, or training stations or something that applies risk vs rewards. I bet if the mercs could bid skills points on the match we may have a risk vs rewards system. Something stacked ontop of a basic system may make this less of an issue. It would separate the grinders from the casual but could it satisfy both if There was a risk of loss skill option? If there was a skill level grouping of players per match?
Marc Rime Zumari Force Projection Caldari State 31	Posted - 2013.02.10 19:27:00 - [490] - Quote Nice necro. We need more forum drama.

Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2013.02.10 19:34:00 - [491] - Quote Why the frakk did you necro this thread? The SP cap is staying. So let this thread die.
Coleman Gray Coalition Of Goverments 47	Posted - 2013.02.10 20:57:00 - [492] - Quote I totally agree with removing the SP cap in favour for a 1WP=1SP system. With the current system players who join the game can NEVER catch up to people who played the game before them, Players wouldn't want to play simply because No matter how hard they tried they'll never get to the SP levels of for example the closed BETA players simply because their restrained.
Maken Tosch Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 1591	Posted - 2013.02.10 21:02:00 - [493] - Quote Coleman Gray wrote: I totally agree with removing the SP cap in favour for a 1WP=1SP system. With the current system players who join the game can NEVER catch up to people who played the game before them, Players wouldn't want to play simply because No matter how hard they tried they'll never get to the SP levels of for example the closed BETA players simply because their restrained. So if 10 years from now when a Dust veteran has 200million SP and sudden 10 years from now a newbie comes in with only 300,000 SP, you want that newbie to be able to reach 200million SP in a shorter time that it took for the veteran to reach 200million? You don't belong here.
AskuII Legend Vacuum Cleaner. LLC 7	Posted - 2013.02.10 21:16:00 - [494] - Quote Now the system is the experience of all happy! There will be no restrictions - then I will not play it ... Double Fa-üepalm Sorry for the bad translator!
Cyris Fortune ZionTCD Legacy Rising 66	Posted - 2013.02.10 21:50:00 - [495] - Quote All I can say is IF you go the no cap route even just to "test" the idea. You WILL NEVER be able to implement a cap again. The out cry and uproar would be huge. All you would do is create another category of player Casual, hardcore, no lifers simple. You will also have to consider you will have to create more and more content quicker to keep the SP being spent. You will also create a underground market for toon selling, thus taking away the point of aur items and or skill boosters. As it stands with a rolling weekly SP cap. If I know I'm only going to get on this weekend or a couple of hours each day I'm more likely to buy a skill booster to maximise my skill gain from my time, within my cap. Thus keeping up with jones pet say. Just my 2isk
Kwik Draw Traitors Function 4	Posted - 2013.02.10 23:34:00 - [496] - Quote I say only a passive skill point cap. Not one that is effected from battles, but one that stops racking up after like 12 hours of dormancy or something.
Timothy Reaper ZionTCD Legacy Rising 321	Posted - 2013.02.11 06:11:00 - [497] - Quote The skill cap - in one form or another - needs to stay. True, it can be a bit aggravating, but it's the only thing that will keep everyone on a more or less even footing. Yes, new players will be at a disadvantage, but isn't that the case with any multiplayer game? If the cap is removed then we'll have no-lifers staying on for as long as they can put off going to bed or people with more money than sense paying others to do so. What they do with their time and money is their business, but people with this attitude towards a game are the most annoying to play with or against.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 244	Posted - 2013.02.11 06:17:00 - [498] - Quote Apparently no one read the part about this being a dead thread? In that case... THIS THREAD IS DEAD.
lowratehitman Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 284	Posted - 2013.02.11 06:22:00 - [499] - Quote Take the skill cap away? Sure...try adding skilled matchmaking for the mighty pub stompers, but than again, if you have a group of no lifers that do not have jobs, and play the game 24-7 waiting on the unemployment check to hit the mail box, you will always run into this type of problem, so CCP, you going to get the skilled matchmaking right before removing the SP cap?
Centurion mkII SVER True Blood Unclaimed. 10	Posted - 2013.02.11 06:26:00 - [500] - Quote I love the weekly skill cap. I assume your doing this because ambush is being farmed. Balance if so just make it so skirmish and ambush are very close in SP/time and probably solved. I don't like the idea of no cap because i feel threatened that i can't get the max. I know i won't be playing for more then 4 days out of the week and hitting maybe 100k over the current cap. That's not a small amount and i can still progress but other people will progress much faster ( understand theres no perfect solution why shouldn't longer players be rewarded but I still think the weekly cap is the best idea ). I think they will progress so faster then me it will require me to out play (postioning , team work ect ) them to a big extent. I however understand if you remove the cap. I think the weekly is the best solution but understand it still forces scheduling which isn't fun. I just think your forcing grinding( scheduling ) with this system too. I just think the effect here is worse but harder to be seen. It will be seen later when there is a huge sp gap between players. If there becomes no SP cap then I will still play. Just a-lot less and feel dejected in terms of what heights i can achieve as a player. Edit: This is a necro thread.

Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 244	Posted - 2013.02.11 06:27:00 - [501] - Quote lowratehitman wrote: Take the skill cap away? Sure...try adding skilled matchmaking for the mighty pub stompers, but than again, if you have a group of no lifers that do not have jobs, and play the game 24-7 waiting on the unemployment check to hit the mail box, you will always run into this type of problem, so CCP, you going to get the skilled matchmaking right before removing the SP cap? It's a sad day when you can't even read the post directly above yours.
lowratehitman Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 284	Posted - 2013.02.11 06:39:00 - [502] - Quote Sloth9230 wrote: lowratehitman wrote: Take the skill cap away? Sure...try adding skilled matchmaking for the mighty pub stompers, but than again, if you have a group of no lifers that do not have jobs, and play the game 24-7 waiting on the unemployment check to hit the mail box, you will always run into this type of problem, so CCP, you going to get the skilled matchmaking right before removing the SP cap? It's a sad day when you can't even read the post directly above yours. i sawwy IZ waz not peying attention mista offica.
Sloth9230 Reaper Galactic 244	Posted - 2013.02.11 06:41:00 - [503] - Quote lowratehitman wrote: i sawwy IZ waz not peying attention mista offica. Sir, have you been drinking and posting?
Kombaticus Maximus ZionTCD Legacy Rising 13	Posted - 2013.02.11 18:48:00 - [504] - Quote I play eve cause I do not have to grind 24/7, why would you make its relative dust the opposite? It's been working pretty good for you for 10 years. I like the weekly SP cap system we have now, if a guy does have his entire life revolving around eve and wants to play 24/7 let him get a few hundred thousand sp more that is alot of work and based on the currently weekly sp cap they can do that, but if you take the skill cap off you will just have created a game that tailors to those people. The weekly skill cap to me on the other hand allows me to play a little bit every day and get max xp, then on weekends i can hit my cap knowing im not to far from the 24/7 group and can put up a challenge for them, where as if the skill cap is removed majority of people will not stand a chance for a long time. New people have a good deal chance against people with good sp skills now, they just have to play smarter and harder to make more of an impact against someone who is more experienced, organized and supplied. Dont expect to jump on and own people, it takes skill and work. I think pacing the game in its early(beta) stage is healthy for it and allows for modifications to the game to be more subtle and manageable for the majority of players. I also think that a weekly sp cap creates more regular players and less grinders and weekend warriors.
Hirosaki Aries FireHeart Planetary Response Organisation Test Friends Please Ignore 0	Posted - 2013.02.12 22:46:00 - [505] - Quote Id like to see the cal removed in a way. Im one of those players who COULD spend all day playing it and racking up SP but I dont. I say remove the cap and make it so we only earn so much a match OR triple the daily cap. I can see where both sides are right, regulating the SP makes it so no one gets to far ahead and therefore becomes an unfair fight to those who dont have much time to play the game, but also I see that like me for example, theres things I wish to unlock right now but cant due to only a little SP I need but cant because of the cap and therefore must wait, in wich case the game becomes slightly boring and uninteresting because....well lets face it FPS players WANT that next step, they WANT that new weapon that new equipment, its what drives alot of FPS players to keep going n going on THAT game, but again the cap denies the ability to earn such things until the game says you can once again, in short it gets rather annoying to many players the cap does, but again keeps them from getting to much at once and ahead of everyone else....i suggest a regulation SP fill per match myself.
SILENTSAM 69 Pro Hic Immortalis RISE of LEGION 421	Posted - 2013.02.12 23:06:00 - [506] - Quote Funny how people can read old stuff and think it is still relevant. SP cap is a good thing,. The plan is to move to the roll over cap. That is a great idea. No SP cap is an obviously stupid idea. Those who think it is a good idea are trying to serve themselves.
James Blaise Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 35	Posted - 2013.02.12 23:18:00 - [507] - Quote Just give the same system as EVE Online. I am fine with just isk and I am sure everyone else is too. Just click, queue and learn. No build up of sp.
Bogit ZionTCD Legacy Rising 2	Posted - 2013.02.13 00:06:00 - [508] - Quote BAD IDEA
Kaos1771 ARMYofCRIME 0	Posted - 2013.02.13 16:56:00 - [509] - Quote I think the current sp cap amount is too low tbh.. I don't play all day.. I maybe average about 2-3 hours on mon-fri and 5-6 saturday/sunday and I hit the cap usually within a 2-3 days after the weekly reset. I've found myself wanting to play dust but then realizing that I already hit my cap and it is quite disappointing.. Usually I just play something else and wait for the cap reset for next week. Give us a mill a week! with roll over :)
Heinrich Jagerblitzen Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance 142	Posted - 2013.02.13 17:15:00 - [510] - Quote Personally, I abhor active SP in Dust514. "But there's no other reason to play!" is a poor excuse for using active skillpoints as a cheap trick to get people to log in, the game should be compelling and fun enough we WANT to play every night regardless of skillpoints or not. I'd be completely comfortable with removing active SP entirely, and whatever the weekly cap is that CCP is comfortable with,giving it to players spread out passively instead. Same advancement, same speed, no need to grind. Freedom to focus on corp battles. Weekly caps certainly help, daily caps are atrocious and outdated game design (This was one of the reasons I gave up playing WoW back in the day), but I'd rather do away with even the weekly cap and just give EVERYONE those points passively instead so no one is punished or held back for having a life. That being said, I know I'm on one end of the spectrum, and many of you fall in the middle. I know there needs to be some form of instant gratification for players during matches, but i'd rather that came in monetary / material rewards rather than skill point accrual. I'm not pressing CCP to go full-passive against the community's wishes, only illustrating where I stand on this issue and letting you know that I, too, am firmly against forced skillpoint treadmills in Dust514.



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