|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
125
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 10:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
I haven't paid for boosters etc. only the -ú1.59p for the UVT.
This makes it more likely for me to buy a booster.
And to be honest after 5/7million SP what does it matter, the base of your chosen character will be built.
Sure you might want o try other things/ routes etc. but to actually get into the game and play you dont need 10s of millions of SP to build a character.
We also dont know the new skill routes that will be added. We cant have seen any of the real ones if this game is going to take 7 years to skill into all of them. Or their multipliers.
Finally, even under the cap people who play more get ahead and the others cant catch up - and people would never be able to catch up. People in my corp are already 400,000 sp ahead of me. No system is perfect. I guess this route allows newccmers to grind to get a decent build if they eant and then drop in and out f the game as they please. |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
125
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 10:34:00 -
[2] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:[CCP]nothin just said on IRC this change isnt making it in today. Hopefully it wont. ever.
Honestly, I dont see the problem.
In a years time you may have 20m SP. Someone starting 0 Sp. They will never catch up.
Same is true of the uncapped system.
After your base character is built the extra SP will just let you play the game in different ways. It wont let you be less competitive.
People wont b getting 'ahead' of you. People with more SP will just be able to diversify more.
I wont be grinding 24/7. But I may buy a booster for a weekend or something now, which I would never have done. As at the moment the only thing I would pay for this game is the UVT. |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
125
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 10:37:00 -
[3] - Quote
Flyingconejo wrote:I will make it sort:
Rollings SP cap > Weekly SP cap >>>Daily SP cap >>>>>>>>> No SP cap at all.
The reasons, have been stated by all the people above me a thousand times. So please, don't go out of your way to choose the worst option of all. (Hint: The worst option is no SP cap at all)
What's your concern? People will get ahead? People will always have more SP than others.
There is no way to fix this outcome under any system. |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
125
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 10:40:00 -
[4] - Quote
Narylur Tvenska wrote:Removing the cap altogether sounds like a really bad idea and quite unfair to the casual gamers.
A rolling SP cap would be nice though.
No. It helps the casual players.
When they play they get SP - they dont hit an imaginary SP wall |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
125
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 10:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:xAckie wrote:Laurent Cazaderon wrote:[CCP]nothin just said on IRC this change isnt making it in today. Hopefully it wont. ever. Honestly, I dont see the problem. In a years time you may have 20m SP. Some stating 0 Sp. They will never catch up. Same is true of the uncapped system. After your base character is built the extra SP will just let you play the game in different ways. It wont let you be less competitive. People wont b getting 'ahead' of you. People with more SP will just be able to diversify more. I wont be grinding 24/7. But I may buy a booster for a weekend or something now, which I would never have done. As at the moment the only thing I would pay for this game is the UVT. Except with no cap, your late come will have a lot more way to go to catch up. When a SP system capped with a roll-over SP bank system would allow a guy to catch up with some people that all had kinda the same evolution. And what you say about extra SP over say 10Mil being just a way to make your character more versatile, i agree. BUT, it's part of the game to choose your first specialization with care, and the second as well. For some people, it will just be a matter of a couple of week depending on how much they would lower the 1sec = 5 SP thing. Thus it takes something off the game imo. Worrying about choosing your skill wisely is as much important as being self-sufficient with ISK. Worrying about making the good choices so your corp has a good balance in profile is another part of the game. That's gonna disappear soon if it's SP-a-Looza.
I agree with you about choosing your skill wisely. And I feel really sorry for a lot of people who are going to put SP all over the place like I did when I first joined, or to try things out and there is no reset. Glad I was in a beta to be reset and try stuff out. As you know Corps will pick people on how they ant to specialise in the game. This wont change
But I still think that after 6 months the SP cap or no cap it shouldn't really matter too much to us. The longest we had before a reset was what just over 2 months? And a base character could easily be built in that time. What will it be like in 6 months?
I just dont think we will get left behind? Its about diversification.
CCP can never win this debate. Hence why I reckon they decide to cut the 'gordian knot'. |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
125
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 10:54:00 -
[6] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:
That's exactly what happend with the weekly cap. After 2 month, i was 10-15% Sp behind my most invested corp mates. And i wouldnt complain as they made the effort to get to the last SP of that weekly cap, every week ! They deserved that slight amount SP over me.
But without cap. Over the same period of time, it would have been something like 60% more SP.
It's all about freakin balance !
I was 30% at least behind the most invested in my corp. And there were corp mates with less SP me. There are always people in front or behind on SP. |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
125
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 10:58:00 -
[7] - Quote
Laurent Cazaderon wrote:
What you're forgetting is that the current skills, weapons etc.. arent final. The game will have extensions, new stuff to do etc.. And that open grind will come back to be a problem more than once. New stuff will be grinded away by the guys who grinded the most before etc.. etc... etc..
There has to be a middle ground between "every one on the same level" and "you there, get as much as you want'
yes this is true about the extensions. And I am presuming a whole new set of skills after of proficiency? But grinding is always going to have a gap between those who can log on and grind and those that cant. No matter what.
It will mean players will need to specialise and build an RPG character. Whether there is room for an FPS RPG is what we are about to find out.
Or whether people who play FPS prefer being on a flatter skill level where SP and gear doesnt have a major impact in game (like the current FPS skill trees) . |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
125
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 11:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
[quote=Baal Omniscient
This, but closer to 400. Need it to be high enough that you can eek out something useful, but not high enough to have a major impact for grinders. in 3 extra matches you can get those last 1000-1200 SP you needed for that skill. Other than that, this 100%. Been saying this for a long time, as have countless others.[/quote]
but the cap helps the grinders who can log on every day no matter what. no cap helps those that cant/ arent grinders. |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
125
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 11:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
2-Ton Twenty-One wrote:Odiain Suliis wrote:SoTa PoP wrote:Y0UR NAME HERE wrote:KripnawtiQ Prime wrote:I think the cap we have now would be fine with a roll over system for those that can't cap every day to catch up on days off. Increase the consolation to 1000 sp (enough to make a difference over several matches for those that play a lot) and reduce the time spent in battle to 1wp/second instead of 5wp/second.
No cap at all is just crazy. It will kill this game for players that don't have hours and hours to devote to gaming. So with this rolling cap, we talking at the end of say 7 days if you don't use whats rolled over then you lose the sp? or do you hang on to it forever? Lose the SP ideally. Even WoW has a limit of how much double EXP you can store. Lose it exaxly. This way there is this middle ground of' hey you must log into atleasts semi-regularilly' as opposed to 'hey I'll just make this char now and wait for 1 year to have ROLFLOL worth of SP to grind through.' I feel thats a fair middle ground. The rolling sp system was always the way to go. Like I said with a No Cap system people will end up making bots and hiring Chinese farmers to build chars for them. And all those guys who put in massive hours of their own time will end up just as pissed of as everyone else. It will just take a little longer until they realize there mistake. Dust will become a haven for sp grinding bots and farmers from china playing other peoples accounts. I personally make good money and I have friends who play this who make good money as well. Im certain under a no cap system my buddies will just hire a Chinese farmer to play for them send them a ps3 if they need it or give them money for start up and then just let them do the grind. The best part about this game is that its a low grind skill based mmo fps with a persistent world. and at the end of the day that is money CCP would be giving to china instead of into its own pockets to work on the game!!
cool. Economics at work. Whats the problem. apparently you can do this in Eve already/. |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
125
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 11:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
NVM |
|
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
125
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 11:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
Flyingconejo wrote:xAckie wrote: What's your concern? People will get ahead? People will always have more SP than others.
There is no way to fix this outcome under any system.
You have a point in that people will always get ahead. My concern is that a lot of people will get too far ahead too soon, when we still don't have a playerbase big enough to endure it. Dust needs a big playerbase to survive. Open beta starts today, a lot of newbies are coming to Dust. When those newbies start leaving Dust in a month because they can't keep up with all the protogear and protovehicles thrown at them, we are not only losing those players. We are losing any other player they know through bad press and word of mouth. If we had a system to separate new players implemented (like hisec, lowsec, nulsec); maybe I would not dislike the no sp cap idea so much. But as it is, I think it is a very bad idea.
this argument makes sense to me. Particualrly about separating the playerbase. And CCP recognises this. But I still think that there will always be an SP difference with players. And no system can compensate for that fact.
What I actually think Dusts SP system will show is whether there are people willing to play an RPG FPS where specialisation and SP and Gear matter in a game.
The people who stay will be those who like this idea of an FPS game. We just dont know the numbers or whether the majority of players will prefer the current FPS skill tree system setup without the extended/ added RPG depth role. |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
125
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 14:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
I am not an Eve player but I thought New Eden was about unfairness where 5 year vets have way more SP than a 2 month old player? Isnt this part of an RPG DNA?
since everyone seems so concerned about missing out on some imaginary SP the only route is to make everything passive SP (with passive SP boosters) .
This is set out by Arramakaian Eka in this post https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=50867
its the only logical conclusion you can come to as all active SP caps / or no caps will have the problems that have been discussed in this thread and others.
|
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
125
|
Posted - 2013.01.22 14:40:00 -
[13] - Quote
just make it like Eve with just passive SP already. This will cause even more upset......
the biggest complaint in these posts is: I am missing out on being able to get some imaginary SP cause of real life commitments. The 'pool' or rollover idea fixes this problem for them. You missed getting some SP and? Its not the end of the world
those that argue altruistic reasons about new players isnt true either: a player starting now will always have more SP than a player starting in a years time. That player will never catch up with the vet. |
xAckie
Ahrendee Mercenaries Legacy Rising
125
|
Posted - 2013.01.23 11:04:00 -
[14] - Quote
+1 breakin
People have got think beyond the here and now - as if you are going to miss being given some magical sp . In 2 months time sp on your character will only be about diversification. Just think about how much sp you will have in 6months.
Sp shouldn't be the b all end all of this game. It's the fps.
I don't care if the cap goes. Boosters will become worthwhile and ccp needs to make money. Though the way the sp grind would be set up the average to lower players in a game would gain no sp at all. Turning off players. So the way earning sp would need to be reviewed.
Other way to do it would be to make it all passive sp with different passive sp boosters. Say -ú5 for a third boost -ú10 for a 100% boost etc.
|
|
|
|