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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
26
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Posted - 2015.09.24 10:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Dear players,
We have been hard at work, and especially our new CPM, diligently running feedback threads and collecting community thoughts. They proposed a "Top Priorities" list, based on that and my own thoughts, we have a new Hotfix planned out. Now is the time to give us good feedback, but again, a lot of it has been sourced already and we are quite happy with the numbers. If you want to know more about the CPM process, just ask them, they are always around.
On top of that I do have my own ideas, and then we had the 23 pages of "Propose one change for the next Hotfix" thread. I actually typed every single idea from that list, and gave it a rating. I will need to clean it up and share it, because in its current state, it's rated R or 18.
Now to the changes, found here:
Shield Tanking
We are taking a major step towards a balance between Armor and Shield tanking with this new Hotfix, radically strengthing the shield recharge rates, recharge delays and damage thresholds of Caldari and Minmatar Dropsuits. We also reduced the CPU cost of Shield Regulators by almost 20%t to top it off.
HAV/AV Balance
There is a logical thread through this that needs to be explained.
We have talked about HAV vs AV balancing for an eternity it seems. The situation is simply
1.Gallente HAVs are very strong due to Hardener/Repair combo
2.Caldari HAVs are not strong enough comparatively
3.Dropships are ok, Caldari need a PG buff (not in this hotfix) but Swarms are too strong
4.Dedicated AV in the form of a Minmando with Swarms or otherwise, can definitely suppress HAVs and area deny Dropships, but rarely destroy vehicles.
So instead of trying to tweak our way out of this, I propose a radical skill-based solution.
Simply increasing the weak spot on HAVs considerably will allow dedicated AV and other vehicles to use positioning, speed and skill to heavily change the outcome of each encounter without having an effect on Dropships.
Secondly, changing the Swarm Launcher profile to be a new Explosive GÇô Missile, and granting the damage bonus to the Caldari Commando, and leaving Minmatar Commandos with Explosive GÇô Explosives (both have a +20% Armor/-20% Shield damage profile.
Thirdly, changing all Explosive Weapons to deal full damage to HAVs, making the Breach Mass Driver a potent AV weapon in the hands of a Minmatar Commando. Same thing for Assault HMGGÇÖs and Nova Knifes.
All this extra damage potential towards HAVs is met with a strong buff for Caldari HAVs in the form of increased recharge rates and decreased recharge delays. The Gallente HAVs are strong enough to deal with it.
Finally, reducing the Swarm Launcher lock-on range, hit impact and turning radius should improve the quality of life of Dropship users, and somewhat for HAVs.
Rifles
The range discrepancy has made it very difficult to align the purpose and behavior of the fully-automatic rifles. They will therefore all be brought considerably closer to each other, with the Gallente Assault Rifle unchanged.
Scrambler Rifle capability to hold a charge and follow up with multiple accurate hip fire shots is too strong. We are increasing the heat cost of the charge, and thereby reducing the number of follow up shots. The difference should be around 4 shots for a fully skilled Amarr Assault, more for non-skilled users. The movement speed while holding the charge is also reduced by 20%, similar to the Forge Gun.
The Assault Scrambler Rifle is also a little too strong, especially against shields, and we will just increase the heat a little to bring the damage output down to where the other rifles are on the curve.
The Gallente Assault Rifle family is fairly underpowered to the rest of them, not statistically per se, but due to other Assault Dropsuits having better Skill bonuses. ThatGÇÖs why we are introducing a very strong bonus into the form of a ROF bonus for Gallente Assault Dropsuits. Players have been clamoring for a better Caldari bonus as well, and that is being added as a Kick/Recoil reduction for Rail Rifles.
Other Weapons
Breach Shotguns get a Clip and Ammo Buff, as do Burst Scrambler Pistols. Bolt Pistol ROF is reduced but Assault SMGs, Assault Scramblers and Scrambler Pistols get a ROF buff. MagSec gets a healthy damage buff and a charge time reduction. Small Blaster given a robust Splash radius buff to help with Anti Infantry work, especially from the skies, but also from HAVs/LAVs.
Locus Grenade damage progression made Standard and Advanced grenades fairly useless, so we are going to have the same damage for all tiears, with increasing radius per tier. We are also fixing the Packed Locus and buffing the Fused Grenades considerably.
Modules
We wanted to improve the Biotics family so are reducing the PG cost of the KinCats, buffing the Cardiac Regulator. We normalized the Myofib damage bonus but increased base Melee damage on all dropsuits to make up for it.
ThatGÇÖs it for now, go ahead and comment on these changes, that look like they will stir up the meta quite a lot.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Darth-Carbonite GIO
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
2
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Posted - 2015.09.24 10:14:00 -
[2] - Quote
Are you not entertained?
"Max rotation-¦ 50" Commence operation barrel roll.
"Sex is OK!" -CCP Rouge, Executive Producer of Dust and our benevolent overlord.
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Zaria Min Deir
Resheph Interstellar Strategy
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 10:18:00 -
[3] - Quote
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:Are you not entertained?
*grabs popcorn*
zariamindeir on Twitter&Gmail
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xavier zor
1.U.P
2
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Posted - 2015.09.24 10:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Please don't tell me you went to all this trouble organising changes but STILL haven't opened full trading!!?!??
sLaYeR
unicus peritia, salvus perveniet elite InTheDark
InTheDark doesn't need you!
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Darth-Carbonite GIO
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
2
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Posted - 2015.09.24 10:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
But seriously, it's more time consuming than you'd think.
"Sex is OK!" -CCP Rouge, Executive Producer of Dust and our benevolent overlord.
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The KTM Duke
Dead Man's Game
920
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Posted - 2015.09.24 10:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Mmm...will see those cal/gal new bonus :)
Selling voice bubbles 24/7 // H0riz0n Unlimit // R.I.P EU server
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Spaceman-Rob
Standby Retaliation
967
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Posted - 2015.09.24 10:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
When does the hotfix drop?
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
3
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Posted - 2015.09.24 10:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:But seriously, it's more time consuming than you'd think.
I think the new CPM bros have gained a new appreciation for how much work goes into these. 
CPM 1&2 Member
CEO of DUST University
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Jadek Menaheim
Positive-Feedback.
7
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Posted - 2015.09.24 10:39:00 -
[9] - Quote
oh snap! Nova knives will do 100% damage to HAVs.
I'm going to have fun with that.
Correction:
It's listed as melee in the excel doc...Rattati? Do you mean I can punch a tank now? 
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
3
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Posted - 2015.09.24 10:45:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'm personally quite excited to see how these changes pan out in real game play situations. This should shift the current meta considerably and shake it all up.
CPM 1&2 Member
CEO of DUST University
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KGB Sleep
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 10:57:00 -
[11] - Quote
Seriously excited.
This is going to be sick.
Because beer, that's why.
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
425
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Posted - 2015.09.24 10:59:00 -
[12] - Quote
It's almost everything I wanted (but ofc some of what I wanted couldn't be done in a hotfix xD)...and so much more...
Wait...wait...wait...Melee doing full damage vs vehicles...I don't know how I feel about this, but wait, is my powerfist on the Commando getting nerfed?...how can I rip and tear if I can't rip and tear?
New Assault bonuses look awesome...a 25% RoF bonus on Gallente Assaults is going to be...interesting...to say the least, can't wait to see how it plays out
and finally, the Caldari Weapon bonussed on the Caldari Suit...
AND TRADEABLE STD BPOS!
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:Are you not entertained?
http://i.imgur.com/GOTk7e0.png
overall looks good...hope my gratuitous overuse of reaction images has brought you some respite from the busy schedule
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
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Francois Sanchez
Prima Gallicus
540
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Posted - 2015.09.24 11:02:00 -
[13] - Quote
A few things worry me :
The gal RoF bonus seems too good, and keep in mind it will buff variants such as the breach and the tactical that don't need a buff. It will also buff shotguns.
Reducing turn radius of swarm is actually a buff, it allows you to shoot around corners. I can't count the number of times a vehicle tried to escape behind something and my swarms turned so quickly they hit the obstacle. With reduced turn radius they'll get around and hit the vehicule.
I like the rest |
axis alpha
ScReWeD uP InC
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 11:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY....................
Thank you.
THANK YOU FOR THE NEW CALDARI BONUS!
It all sounds good. Fuxed with my bolt pistol but I can deal with it. And maybe the Magsec will be viable.
But,
Still iffy about shields...
And
That gal ass sounds nasty though....like ouch.
Hullaballo and howdy doo! Musty prawns, and Timbucktu.
Yeltsibee and hibbertyhoo
Kick 'em in the dishpan. Hoo hoo hoo!
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Regnier Feros
Pielords
727
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Posted - 2015.09.24 11:09:00 -
[15] - Quote
Thirdly, changing all Explosive Weapons to deal full damage to HAVs, making the Breach Mass Driver a potent AV weapon in the hands of a Minmatar Commando
Why isn't there a av laser rifle for the amarr commando?
LongLiveQueenZarZar
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Lightning35 Delta514
The Warlords Legion
No Context
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 11:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Quoted to GD. THANK YOU RATATI!!! MY KALANATE ASSAULT RIFLE IS THE MOST OP IN DA GAME!!!!! I CAN NOW FULLY FIT MY GALASS WIH NORE DAMAGE WITH PG REDUCTION AND MY GALMANDO IS AWESOMER NOW!!!!
CEO of T-W-L
YouTube- Lightning35 Delta514
Twitter- @LD3514
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Protected Void
Nos Nothi
464
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Posted - 2015.09.24 11:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mostly good stuff :-)
A bit anxious about that new Gal assault bonus, but it will be interesting to see how it works.
A bit miffed with the Amarr scout receiving a further nerf (shield recharge delay), edging it even closer to oblivion. It will certainly affect my play style (no HP mods, lots of popping in and out of cover to replenish my tiny shield HP buffer). I realize it also gets a higher plinking threshold for shields, but I consider that a marginal advantage at best. Most hits on me take away half my shield, and is thus far above the new threshold, too. |
Francois Sanchez
Prima Gallicus
540
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Posted - 2015.09.24 11:16:00 -
[18] - Quote
Also commando melee damage is badly nerfed in the spreadsheet, is it intended? |
jerrmy12 kahoalii
G0DS AM0NG MEN
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 11:20:00 -
[19] - Quote
i can't see anything but bpo trading on mobile...ps3 browser...
shield buff? finally, no longer have to stack more than 1 energizer & 3 regs, but i'll still stack regs.
Closed beta vet.
Lurk mode is engaged.
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
3
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Posted - 2015.09.24 11:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Francois Sanchez wrote:A few things worry me :
The gal RoF bonus seems too good, and keep in mind it will buff variants such as the breach and the tactical that don't need a buff. It will also buff shotguns.
We've had assurances from Rattati that the bonus will apply to AR's only. We were obviously concerned about the Bons becoming a machine shotgun gun.
Also bare in mind that AR's will now be eating up ammo like candy so the clips will drain much faster.
CPM 1&2 Member
CEO of DUST University
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Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
845
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Posted - 2015.09.24 11:25:00 -
[21] - Quote
So will this hotfix be the rise of the Laser Rifle given the range nerfs to the main racial rifles?
ADS Ramming Revenge!
Plasma Cannon Rampage
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Jadek Menaheim
Positive-Feedback.
7
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Posted - 2015.09.24 11:28:00 -
[22] - Quote
Francois Sanchez wrote:Also commando melee damage is badly nerfed in the spreadsheet, is it intended?
Senpai noticed my my intensity of fisting and did not approve...
why Senpai Rattati, I thought you wanted to unite.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
26
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Posted - 2015.09.24 11:29:00 -
[23] - Quote
Francois Sanchez wrote:A few things worry me :
The gal RoF bonus seems too good, and keep in mind it will buff variants such as the breach and the tactical that don't need a buff. It will also buff shotguns.
Reducing turn radius of swarm is actually a buff, it allows you to shoot around corners. I can't count the number of times a vehicle tried to escape behind something and my swarms turned so quickly they hit the obstacle. With reduced turn radius they'll get around and hit the vehicule.
Range nerf to ACR... Why? It already performs poorly after 50m
Magsec buff is a bit too much, half the damage buff would seem more adapted
I like the rest
breach, burst and tactical all perform worse than the rest. The whole Gallente Rifle family needs a buff.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Francois Sanchez
Prima Gallicus
541
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Posted - 2015.09.24 11:36:00 -
[24] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
breach, burst and tactical all perform worse than the rest. The whole Gallente Rifle family needs a buff.
That's not the impression I have about the breach and the tactical but if you say so I trust you as you have access to much more data.
However seems unfair when you look at the galmando : 25% ROF bonus means 25% extra DPS vs 10% for the commando... |
Bremen van Equis
Incorruptibles
717
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Posted - 2015.09.24 11:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
Francois Sanchez wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
breach, burst and tactical all perform worse than the rest. The whole Gallente Rifle family needs a buff.
That's not the impression I have about the breach and the tactical but if you say so I trust you as you have access to much more data. However seems unfair when you look at the galmando : 25% ROF bonus means 25% extra DPS vs 10% for the commando...
Bonus to assault suits only, not commando.
Buckle up, boysGǪthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
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Jadek Menaheim
Positive-Feedback.
7
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Posted - 2015.09.24 11:46:00 -
[26] - Quote
^ The reload speed on the Galmando factors in there.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Zaria Min Deir
Resheph Interstellar Strategy
Gallente Federation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 11:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Correction: It's listed as melee in the excel doc...Rattati? Do you mean I can punch a tank now?
I sure hope so, purely for the hilarity that will ensue.
zariamindeir on Twitter&Gmail
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Francois Sanchez
Prima Gallicus
541
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Posted - 2015.09.24 11:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
Bremen van Equis wrote:
Bonus to assault suits only, not commando.
I know, I meant that the galmando damage bonus was losing its interest as the galass bonus was much better |
DAAAA BEAST
Corrosive Synergy
3
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Posted - 2015.09.24 11:55:00 -
[29] - Quote
Very good fixes Team , thank you.
Trading can wait , let's just re-assure ourselves we still want this game to be played with balance.
I am also curious of what you did to the sleek locus grenade , as it has the minimal damage ( 150 ) but the bigger blast radius meaning will have 600 damage and a 15 m blast radius ( officer core locus ? )
Or did you reduce the blast radius and fixed the fused timer ( it's fused timer is glitched on the locus )
CEO of Corrosive Synergy
Fear the plasma from my cannon !
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Jadek Menaheim
Positive-Feedback.
7
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:02:00 -
[30] - Quote
Zaria Min Deir wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:Correction: It's listed as melee in the excel doc...Rattati? Do you mean I can punch a tank now? I sure hope so, purely for the hilarity that will ensue.
 Is that why Commando Melee damage is being brought down substantially (from 1230hp to 750-ish)?
If you managed your stamina properly for an engagement (and holding a sidearm or equipment) you could hit two times per second = 2460hp DPS. Which I could see adding up quickly against tanks if you managed to stand on top of it (which would prevent your death upon explosion).
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
18
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:31:00 -
[31] - Quote
I think you people are not reading it right.
I think that's 1% ROF per level rather than 5% per level.
The Caldari bonus specifically says "per level" while the Gallente bonus does not.
Ripley Riley:
> Post Hotfix Foxour Gallente Assault:
> DakkadakkadakkadakkaFREEDOMdakkadakka
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Baal Omniscient
Qualified Scrub
2
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:36:00 -
[32] - Quote
So the DPS of one AR clip is going to be increased by 25% with Gal Assault 5? So if I remember my numbers correctly, the AR will now have a higher RoF than the Acr, still maintaining much more damage per round, and you're nerfing the range of the other assault variant rifles?
Riiiiiiiight.....
Winmatar Assault, Proficiency 5 SMG's & Proficiency 5 Swarms Since Uprising 1.0
I GÖú Puppies
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.*pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
27
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:36:00 -
[33] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
The Gallente Assault Rifle family is fairly underpowered to the rest of them, not statistically per se, but due to other Assault Dropsuits having better Skill bonuses. ThatGÇÖs why we are introducing a very strong bonus into the form of a ROF bonus for Gallente Assault Dropsuits.
My God.
It's... actually happening?
I will go and burn more offerings at the shrine immediately.
Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
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shaman oga
Dead Man's Game
4
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:36:00 -
[34] - Quote
Question on myofibs; will jump increase always be tiered or will it be normalized?
Regressed to blueberry level.
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
18
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:37:00 -
[35] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
The Gallente Assault Rifle family is fairly underpowered to the rest of them, not statistically per se, but due to other Assault Dropsuits having better Skill bonuses. ThatGÇÖs why we are introducing a very strong bonus into the form of a ROF bonus for Gallente Assault Dropsuits.
My God. It's... actually happening? I will go and burn more offerings at the shrine immediately.
*Throws the Assault Rail Rifle at the shrine*
Burn it with the rest! I won't need it anymore!
Ripley Riley:
> Post Hotfix Foxour Gallente Assault:
> DakkadakkadakkadakkaFREEDOMdakkadakka
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
27
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:39:00 -
[36] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
The Gallente Assault Rifle family is fairly underpowered to the rest of them, not statistically per se, but due to other Assault Dropsuits having better Skill bonuses. ThatGÇÖs why we are introducing a very strong bonus into the form of a ROF bonus for Gallente Assault Dropsuits.
My God. It's... actually happening? I will go and burn more offerings at the shrine immediately. *Throws the Assault Rail Rifle at the shrine* Burn it with the rest! I won't need it anymore!
A Caldari offering?
What is this heresy?
I thought we were friends.
On a related note... 25% RoF bonus? That's insane.
EDIT: But is that 5%, or 5% per level...?
Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
18
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:43:00 -
[37] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
The Gallente Assault Rifle family is fairly underpowered to the rest of them, not statistically per se, but due to other Assault Dropsuits having better Skill bonuses. ThatGÇÖs why we are introducing a very strong bonus into the form of a ROF bonus for Gallente Assault Dropsuits.
My God. It's... actually happening? I will go and burn more offerings at the shrine immediately. *Throws the Assault Rail Rifle at the shrine* Burn it with the rest! I won't need it anymore! A Caldari offering? What is this heresy? I thought we were friends.
I didn't say offer it to the Rattati gods! I just said burn it down to nanites!
What kind of sick and perverted person do you think I am?
Ripley Riley:
> Post Hotfix Foxour Gallente Assault:
> DakkadakkadakkadakkaFREEDOMdakkadakka
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DiablosMajora
300
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:46:00 -
[38] - Quote
Meleeing tanks?
I can only imagine the beelines to punch that sucker into oblivion.
Prepare your angus
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
18
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:47:00 -
[39] - Quote
DiablosMajora wrote:Meleeing tanks?
I can only imagine the beelines to punch that sucker into oblivion.
*Imagines a flock of 16 Myofib stim Min Assaults merrily swarming a tank and punching it to death*
Ripley Riley:
> Post Hotfix Foxour Gallente Assault:
> DakkadakkadakkadakkaFREEDOMdakkadakka
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
18
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:49:00 -
[40] - Quote
Plasma Cannon doesn't get the weakpoint modifier that the Forge Gun gets?
Ratatouille plz
Ripley Riley:
> Post Hotfix Foxour Gallente Assault:
> DakkadakkadakkadakkaFREEDOMdakkadakka
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
13
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
Seriously guy.
Great freaking job.
I'm kinda miffed that I traded my PS3 to a friend to play Tales of Vesperia now, I really want to play this build.
Also; Did Kirk squeal like a little girl when you buffed the Gal Assault?
Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_;
Wanna play EVE? 30 day trial here
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
27
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:51:00 -
[42] - Quote
Just a tiny nitpick - on the spreadsheet, it says the old breach shotgun clip size was 4 and the new is also 4. Should this be 2 and 4?
Also, could we have a clarification on the Galassault bonus? Is it 5% per level, or 5% flat?
Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
18
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:52:00 -
[43] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Seriously guy.
Great freaking job.
I'm kinda miffed that I traded my PS3 to a friend to play Tales of Vesperia now, I really want to play this build.
Also; Did Kirk squeal like a little girl when you buffed the Gal Assault?
Despite me living on practically the other side of the planet, I'm pretty sure the squeal that woke me up this morning was in fact Kirk.
Or it was the neighbors guinea pig going ham again, either way.
Ripley Riley:
> Post Hotfix Foxour Gallente Assault:
> DakkadakkadakkadakkaFREEDOMdakkadakka
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
13
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:54:00 -
[44] - Quote
Juno Tristan wrote:So will this hotfix be the rise of the Laser Rifle given the range nerfs to the main racial rifles?
I believe the range nerf is only to the ASSAULT versions, not the main ones.
Read the notes.
Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_;
Wanna play EVE? 30 day trial here
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
13
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:55:00 -
[45] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Just a tiny nitpick - on the spreadsheet, it says the old breach shotgun clip size was 4 and the new is also 4. Should this be 2 and 4?
Also, could we have a clarification on the Galassault bonus? Is it 5% per level, or 5% flat?
OMG 5% per level.
Remember the old busted Specialist Assault Rifle? The one with 1000 RPM? 
Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_;
Wanna play EVE? 30 day trial here
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DJIPS
Affectionate Moon Warmth Gentle Earth
49
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:56:00 -
[46] - Quote
So, when this Hotfix will put into practice ?  |
Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
13
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:56:00 -
[47] - Quote
And the fact that the 10% damage buff applies to both armor and shields, and has no stacking penalties.
With one damage mod you get 17% extra damage to both shields and armor.
People really tend to underestimate the power of the Commando bonus.
Re-Retired PC Scout. I miss the old days ;_;
Wanna play EVE? 30 day trial here
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
18
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:58:00 -
[48] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Just a tiny nitpick - on the spreadsheet, it says the old breach shotgun clip size was 4 and the new is also 4. Should this be 2 and 4?
Also, could we have a clarification on the Galassault bonus? Is it 5% per level, or 5% flat? OMG 5% per level. Remember the old busted Specialist Assault Rifle? The one with 1000 RPM?
As entertaining as that would be for a while, I doubt Rattati would go for something as hamfisted as that.
Ripley Riley:
> Post Hotfix Foxour Gallente Assault:
> DakkadakkadakkadakkaFREEDOMdakkadakka
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IAmDuncanIdaho II
Nos Nothi
4
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Posted - 2015.09.24 12:59:00 -
[49] - Quote
Thank you for keeping an AV role for the Minmando. Please may I have my Swarm Launcher tree SP back? :-o
Also think the spreadsheet is showing the new value for Breach Shotgun clip as the old value too - shouldn't that be old:2, new:4 ?
ADV locus nades are looking worringly close to Core performance - would like to see the damage reduced overall but hey, let's see.
Looking forward to this!! :)
Needs an event - you should always launch hotfixes with an event ;-)
1 point for every point of shield HP you regen per game, (capped at a sensible threshold, self- and fall-damage does not count)
1 point for every point of HP damage you inflict to vehicles
1 point for every two mercs OHK'ed with ADV locus nades ;-)
[edit]
Meant to add - you can distribute those point bonuses you earn as either SP, ISK or AUR, at an appropriate multiplier for each
This post has been liked by XxBlazikenxX
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Tri Stone
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
19
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 13:19:00 -
[50] - Quote
ROF bonus on the tac ar? So the Scr get's super nerfed but the already deadly Tac Ar gets a buff......make complete sense, it's okay though I just started getting used to the tac ar and that thing is a force to be reckoned with on my gal assault and gal mando.
Everything else looks beautiful but you are missing one thing, the balance on the OP active scanner equipment. |
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Avallo Kantor
873
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Posted - 2015.09.24 13:19:00 -
[51] - Quote
A question on Tanks and "weak-points":
I recall from a youtube video from some time back that there is an area on a tank where AV damage does significantly more damage but it is in a very small / hard to hit spot. Is this what you mean by the weak points you will be increasing the size of on HAVs?
The other question related to this is if we will receive any information on their relative locations since this seems to becoming more of a feature of tank combat, or will it be something of a 'hidden feature' for Tankers / AV pilots to discover at their risk / benefit? (more so than the descriptions given in the spreadsheets. Some of us are visual learners)
"Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
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Racro 01 Arifistan
Simple Minded People Pty. Ltd.
607
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 13:20:00 -
[52] - Quote
how will the new gall assault bonus affect the PLC?? it only has one shot. re-load reduction for plc may haps? or better yet
gallente assault skill bonus
3% bonus to rate of fire per level
5% reduction to light and sidearm blaster weapon reload speed per level
maybe???? please.
https://zkillboard.com/kill/47521458/
https://zkillboard.com/kill/47521142
Oppose me and you shall incure my wrath.
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CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
652
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 13:21:00 -
[53] - Quote
I WILL need to break open my study manuals for those pictures and diagramed-anatomy of a Madruger HAV, though. ...Now, where did my old professors tell us the Fuel Cell is located? Hmm, page 512, or 576? No, wait---WHERE is the fuel cell? Rear end?
LOL, this may be loads of fun.
I'm grateful our adorable Dropships don't have such new anatomical problems as you HAVers. My Grimsnes' chin is as ugly as it's behind---there'd be no end of confusion and chaos.
Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne...
No story can have life without writers and publishers.
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
G0DS AM0NG MEN
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 13:25:00 -
[54] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:DiablosMajora wrote:Meleeing tanks?
I can only imagine the beelines to punch that sucker into oblivion.
*Imagines a flock of 16 Myofib stim Min Assaults merrily swarming a tank and punching it to death*
*unsheathes katana*
*teleports behind u*
"nothin' personal kid"
Closed beta vet.
Lurk mode is engaged.
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Echo 1991
Corrosive Synergy
No Context
941
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Posted - 2015.09.24 13:29:00 -
[55] - Quote
Loving the look of the hotfix, but it's missing the ion pistol skill change  (I know it's probably low down but I need that PG reduction)
Wanna play eve?
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Avallo Kantor
874
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 13:31:00 -
[56] - Quote
Kudos again, this hotfix looks amazing.
One early concern I have after looking all the numbers over is that the buff to Cardiac Regulators will make the Amarr Scout bonus look all the weaker for comparison as even with max skills it will be providing less value compared to a Cardiac Regulator than previously. It may be worth looking into slightly tweaking the Amarr Scout bonus (assuming you are keeping it as is) to better stack up against the module with the same effect.
"Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 13:44:00 -
[57] - Quote
So in nerfing swarm range YET AGAIN, when it badly needed a buff to be able to hit... anything even remotely airborne.... swarms can now only be used against dropships that are parked. Which you are standing next to?
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Leovarian L Lavitz
TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 13:51:00 -
[58] - Quote
oh gawd, grenades for everyone... except commandos ;(
Youtube: Dust 514 - You should Have Worn Proto
One V One Emperor
|
Genral69 death
RAT PATROL INC.
745
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 13:54:00 -
[59] - Quote
Some great idea's
Didn't expect my breach short to get a buff :Dyou say your fixing the packed locus grenade, what do you mean?
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
720
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 13:54:00 -
[60] - Quote
May Balac have your back till the stars all die. oMF7
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Celus Ivara
DUST University
Ivy League
414
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 13:57:00 -
[61] - Quote
Very good changes all-in-all. :)
I keep staring at the sheets looking for problems, and instead I'm finding new interesting choices for players.
There are a few spots that are hard to predict (like the AV changes), yet even those don't come off as troubles but instead as shake-ups to the meta.
Solid work, team! :D
Keep it up! ;) o7 |
IR Scifi
OSG Planetary Operations
207
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 13:57:00 -
[62] - Quote
Great, now I need to need to try and hide my boner before going to my next meeting.
Thanks rattati...
(Seriously this sounds awesome though) |
Mejt0
Made in Poland...
E-R-A
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 14:03:00 -
[63] - Quote
Looks very promising. Though bad luck for me, I need to buy a cable fo my DS3.
But once I'm back to Dust I'm gonna surely test Caldari suits, ScR and ADS.
Modern society is lacking in empathy
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
721
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 14:08:00 -
[64] - Quote
Oh, and just because.
Get your rusty duct-taped fingers off my missiles!!
HA!
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 14:22:00 -
[65] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:4.Dedicated AV in the form of a Minmando with Swarms or otherwise, can definitely suppress HAVs and area deny Dropships, but rarely destroy vehicles.
So this is a huge problem. And...
CCP Rattati wrote:Finally, reducing the Swarm Launcher lock-on range, hit impact and turning radius should improve the quality of life of Dropship users, and somewhat for HAVs.
This doesn't fix it, this exacerbates it.
Breakin, I am disappoint.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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WyrmHero1945
Finesse Soldiers
694
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 14:29:00 -
[66] - Quote
But I loved the reload bonus on my CalAss!!!!!
Nobody ask for a kick bonus!
And watch out for that ROF bonus on Gallente! Seems too good! |
Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
721
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 14:37:00 -
[67] - Quote
WyrmHero1945 wrote:But I loved the reload bonus on my CalAss!!!!!
Nobody ask for a kick bonus!
And watch out for that ROF bonus on Gallente! Seems too good!
If we lose reload bonus, maybe look at tuning the base reload for all rail rifles.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Tri Stone
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
19
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Posted - 2015.09.24 14:39:00 -
[68] - Quote
Gal/Cal receive huge buff while the Amarr get double nerfed..... one nerf would have been enough but now it will have four times the kick after each consecutive shot? am I supposed to tap the trigger every two seconds to avoid the unnecessary kick?The amarr assault doesn't even have a bonus to it's own sidearm. So to maximize the suits effectiveness I have to throw on a laser light weapon on, while every other class can have either their racial sidearms/light weapons affected by their bonus...true makes sense.
I just want to know the logic behind nerfing the accuracy of the gun that was meant to be used accurately...
not only will I overheat fast but my shot's will be 4x less accurate... but hey I get a tiny improvement to my movement speed...when charging a shot...... a charge shot that will make me overheat after 4 shots..
Idk about you but I don't always land my charge shots, I definitely won't be using the charge shot ever... with only 4 shot's to hopefully kill my opponent with, if I miss the charge shot. It seems sort of useless to charge up now.
no other rifle renders you defenseless/immobilized other than the Scr/Lr... if this nerf goes through you might as well give us the ability to sprint when overheated cause at the moment I see Tac Ars, and Rail Rifles reigning supreme. |
Vesta Opalus
Rebels New Republic
The Ditanian Alliance
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 14:46:00 -
[69] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Dear players, We have been hard at work, and especially our new CPM, diligently running feedback threads and collecting community thoughts. They proposed a "Top Priorities" list, based on that and my own thoughts, we have a new Hotfix planned out. Now is the time to give us good feedback, but again, a lot of it has been sourced already and we are quite happy with the numbers. If you want to know more about the CPM process, just ask them, they are always around. On top of that I do have my own ideas, and then we had the 23 pages of "Propose one change for the next Hotfix" thread. I actually typed every single idea from that list, and gave it a rating. I will need to clean it up and share it, because in its current state, it's rated R or 18. Now to the changes, found here: Shield TankingWe are taking a major step towards a balance between Armor and Shield tanking with this new Hotfix, radically strengthing the shield recharge rates, recharge delays and damage thresholds of Caldari and Minmatar Dropsuits. We also reduced the CPU cost of Shield Regulators by almost 20%t to top it off. HAV/AV BalanceThere is a logical thread through this that needs to be explained. We have talked about HAV vs AV balancing for an eternity it seems. The situation is simply 1.Gallente HAVs are very strong due to Hardener/Repair combo 2.Caldari HAVs are not strong enough comparatively 3.Dropships are ok, Caldari need a PG buff (not in this hotfix) but Swarms are too strong 4.Dedicated AV in the form of a Minmando with Swarms or otherwise, can definitely suppress HAVs and area deny Dropships, but rarely destroy vehicles. So instead of trying to tweak our way out of this, I propose a radical skill-based solution. Simply increasing the weak spot on HAVs considerably will allow dedicated AV and other vehicles to use positioning, speed and skill to heavily change the outcome of each encounter without having an effect on Dropships. Secondly, changing the Swarm Launcher profile to be a new Explosive GÇô Missile, and granting the damage bonus to the Caldari Commando, and leaving Minmatar Commandos with Explosive GÇô Explosives (both have a +20% Armor/-20% Shield damage profile. Thirdly, changing all Explosive Weapons to deal full damage to HAVs, making the Breach Mass Driver a potent AV weapon in the hands of a Minmatar Commando. Same thing for Assault HMGGÇÖs and Nova Knifes. All this extra damage potential towards HAVs is met with a strong buff for Caldari HAVs in the form of increased recharge rates and decreased recharge delays. The Gallente HAVs are strong enough to deal with it. Finally, reducing the Swarm Launcher lock-on range, hit impact and turning radius should improve the quality of life of Dropship users, and somewhat for HAVs. RiflesThe range discrepancy has made it very difficult to align the purpose and behavior of the fully-automatic rifles. They will therefore all be brought considerably closer to each other, with the Gallente Assault Rifle unchanged. Scrambler Rifle capability to hold a charge and follow up with multiple accurate hip fire shots is too strong. We are increasing the heat cost of the charge, and thereby reducing the number of follow up shots. The difference should be around 4 shots for a fully skilled Amarr Assault, more for non-skilled users. The movement speed while holding the charge is also reduced by 20%, similar to the Forge Gun. The Assault Scrambler Rifle is also a little too strong, especially against shields, and we will just increase the heat a little to bring the damage output down to where the other rifles are on the curve. The Gallente Assault Rifle family is fairly underpowered to the rest of them, not statistically per se, but due to other Assault Dropsuits having better Skill bonuses. ThatGÇÖs why we are introducing a very strong bonus into the form of a ROF bonus for Gallente Assault Dropsuits. Players have been clamoring for a better Caldari bonus as well, and that is being added as a Kick/Recoil reduction for Rail Rifles. Other WeaponsBreach Shotguns get a Clip and Ammo Buff, as do Burst Scrambler Pistols. Bolt Pistol ROF is reduced but Assault SMGs, Assault Scramblers and Scrambler Pistols get a ROF buff. MagSec gets a healthy damage buff and a charge time reduction. Small Blaster given a robust Splash radius buff to help with Anti Infantry work, especially from the skies, but also from HAVs/LAVs. Locus Grenade damage progression made Standard and Advanced grenades fairly useless, so we are going to have the same damage for all tiears, with increasing radius per tier. We are also fixing the Packed Locus and buffing the Fused Grenades considerably. ModulesWe wanted to improve the Biotics family so are reducing the PG cost of the KinCats, buffing the Cardiac Regulator. We normalized the Myofib damage bonus but increased base Melee damage on all dropsuits to make up for it. ThatGÇÖs it for now, go ahead and comment on these changes, that look like they will stir up the meta quite a lot.
1. Your change to the assault scrambler will not be effective on the amarr assault
2. Will you be adding in the light weapon PG/CPU bonus to the commando suits so that their fitting costs do not wildly exceed available PG/CPU?
3. Kind of dissapointed that you chose to buff caldari HAVs instead of breaking the clearly overpowered rep/hardener combo on the madruger, but I didnt expect anything different.
4. Bravo on other changes. |
Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 14:47:00 -
[70] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
HAV/AV Balance
There is a logical thread through this that needs to be explained.
We have talked about HAV vs AV balancing for an eternity it seems. The situation is simply
1.Gallente HAVs are very strong due to Hardener/Repair combo
2.Caldari HAVs are not strong enough comparatively
3.Dropships are ok, Caldari need a PG buff (not in this hotfix) but Swarms are too strong
4.Dedicated AV in the form of a Minmando with Swarms or otherwise, can definitely suppress HAVs and area deny Dropships, but rarely destroy vehicles.
So instead of trying to tweak our way out of this, I propose a radical skill-based solution.
Simply increasing the weak spot on HAVs considerably will allow dedicated AV and other vehicles to use positioning, speed and skill to heavily change the outcome of each encounter without having an effect on Dropships.
Secondly, changing the Swarm Launcher profile to be a new Explosive GÇô Missile, and granting the damage bonus to the Caldari Commando, and leaving Minmatar Commandos with Explosive GÇô Explosives (both have a +20% Armor/-20% Shield damage profile.
Thirdly, changing all Explosive Weapons to deal full damage to HAVs, making the Breach Mass Driver a potent AV weapon in the hands of a Minmatar Commando. Same thing for Assault HMGGÇÖs and Nova Knifes.
All this extra damage potential towards HAVs is met with a strong buff for Caldari HAVs in the form of increased recharge rates and decreased recharge delays. The Gallente HAVs are strong enough to deal with it.
Finally, reducing the Swarm Launcher lock-on range, hit impact and turning radius should improve the quality of life of Dropship users, and somewhat for HAVs.
HAV to HAV, I'm afraid better recharge rates and recharge amount weren't exactly the root of the problem. Though they do help, Gal HAV will still be king against other HAVs. Why? Because of utility. Shields have to fit full D just to have a fighting chance 1vs1.
Armor fits full D AND HS plus other utility like DMG mod and nitro. When considering rails of course. This is something you need to address in some way if you want to bring parity between the two.
But wait, explosives of any kind do full damage. HAH.
Wait, ahahahaha.
No really I ahahahah.
Still trying to catch my breath give me a minute.......
Wheew, ok. I see what you are doing here, give the maddie more forms of damage to avoid and maybe in the process bring the gunnie up in the ranks. As it will take less damage to explosives yet still more than it did before by 20%. It sorta of makes sense.
But then I think about all the lolz I'm going to have running infantry AV (If I can ever get off my destiny stint). Core nades, mass drivers and flaylocks, now apply full damage. Flux it, core nades for days, and never once will I have to break my infantry slaying abilities!
Fortunate I had the foresight to respec into things more useful on the infantry side! Just missin a plasma cannon to deal with those gunnies that will be running around.
Honestly though, how have tanks fared thus far. It's not often they rule the battlefield in any reasonable way like days of old. If anything, tanks roll up and make everything hide, if there are any possible objectives to roll up to that they can make a difference on.
This will be most interesting. No doom and gloom really just yet, but it doesn't exactly looking bright for tanks. Need to get my cal mando back so I can stack the myos and go to town meleeing for my finishing move.
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maybe deadcatz
Horizons' Edge
No Context
851
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Posted - 2015.09.24 14:47:00 -
[71] - Quote
Shiny new things?
Hotfix?
sweet
Dust 514:Plasma is magic.
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Regis Blackbird
DUST University
Ivy League
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 14:51:00 -
[72] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:So in nerfing swarm range YET AGAIN, when it badly needed a buff to be able to hit... anything even remotely airborne.... swarms can now only be used against dropships that are parked. Which you are standing next to?
Perhaps it's time for a Assault or Breach Swarm launcher with reduced damage but increased lock-on range?
A swarm dedicated for anti-DS?
Edit: Ohh, I forgot to praise the changes! Will look forward to suite up my Cadari wardrobe 
But... Are we loosing the reload bonus, or will we have the Kick added on top? |
Brush Master
KILL-EM-QUICK
Rise Of Legion.
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 14:53:00 -
[73] - Quote
Interesting change on the swarms but that could make swarmers pretty unhappy. I think the bigger annoyance is that fact that swarms travel 400m once locked on. You can travel 3/4 across a map and figure a swarm volley died off and then all of a sudden get hit by them. So it boils down to no real awareness of swarms.
Dust Veteran. June 2012 - ?
True Logi. Flying DS from the start.
@dustreports
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 15:01:00 -
[74] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote: The Gallente HAVs are strong enough to deal with it.
Sorry, just need to point this out. I think you said something to this effect last time you made changes to tanks.
How did that turn out?
Are gal HAV's really strong enough to handle it, or are you just pulling this out of your butt again
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Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
129
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Posted - 2015.09.24 15:20:00 -
[75] - Quote
Impact is a non factor to any pilot who knows how to fly. Reducing that was a pointless waste of resources. Lock on range was NEVER the issue, the two issues are:
Damage to dropships is too high (could be fixed by bringing back native resists to dropships) and swarm missiles track for too long.
The turn radius may or may not be a good change, hard to tell without seeing how it behaves in game.
Reducing lock on range was just a pointless change that further enforces the run away mentality of dropships, and will likely just invoke more frustration than anything.
And no PG buff to Python. So, there's that. |
argel999
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
23
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Posted - 2015.09.24 15:30:00 -
[76] - Quote
Fair enough this HotFix, I just want to put on table that Nades needs an ISK, CPU/PG check, cuz with this dmg buff it will rain nades overthere, also inficted dmg against Shields should be checked too.
or in other hand reducing Nades recovered amount per Nanohive.
...SLAYER...
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
26
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Posted - 2015.09.24 15:33:00 -
[77] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Zaria Min Deir wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:Correction: It's listed as melee in the excel doc...Rattati? Do you mean I can punch a tank now? I sure hope so, purely for the hilarity that will ensue. Is that why Commando Melee damage is being brought down substantially (from 1230hp to 750-ish)? If you managed your stamina properly for an engagement (and holding a sidearm or equipment) you could hit two times per second = 2460hp DPS. Which I could see adding up quickly against tanks if you managed to stand on top of it (which would prevent your death upon explosion).
I may have screwed up the commando melee damage. Can you remind me what the base was.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
26
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Posted - 2015.09.24 15:36:00 -
[78] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Plasma Cannon doesn't get the weakpoint modifier that the Forge Gun gets?
Ratatouille plz
Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Darth-Carbonite GIO
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
2
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Posted - 2015.09.24 15:41:00 -
[79] - Quote
Tri Stone wrote:Everything else looks beautiful but you are missing one thing, the balance on the OP active scanner equipment.
Being discussed.
"Sex is OK!" -CCP Rouge, Executive Producer of Dust and our benevolent overlord.
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Darth-Carbonite GIO
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
2
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Posted - 2015.09.24 15:42:00 -
[80] - Quote
Racro 01 Arifistan wrote:how will the new gall assault bonus affect the PLC??
The bonus only applies to ARs, or at least that's the intended result. We will have to see if any bugs pop up.
"Sex is OK!" -CCP Rouge, Executive Producer of Dust and our benevolent overlord.
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
26
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Posted - 2015.09.24 15:45:00 -
[81] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:4.Dedicated AV in the form of a Minmando with Swarms or otherwise, can definitely suppress HAVs and area deny Dropships, but rarely destroy vehicles. So this is a huge problem. And... CCP Rattati wrote:Finally, reducing the Swarm Launcher lock-on range, hit impact and turning radius should improve the quality of life of Dropship users, and somewhat for HAVs. This doesn't fix it, this exacerbates it. Breakin, I am disappoint.
please read the whole thing. Overall a massive buff for dedicated AV, both infantry and vehicle.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Asad Thahab-Jabal
Incorruptibles
149
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Posted - 2015.09.24 15:45:00 -
[82] - Quote
Rattati,
Is the new Gallente and Caldari dropsuit command bonuses replacing the current bonuses?
Or are they in addition to the current bonuses?
Ripley Riley is on safari until Oct 9th. I will represent him until he returns.
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.09.24 15:48:00 -
[83] - Quote
Awesome. Now I can finally update my blog xD
Looking forward to reading and responding to comments and super excited to see how shield balancing works out. Can start working on Step Two of Shield Balancing. Unfortunately, all of that will have to wait until after class!
Keep killing, my friends!
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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ZED Regent
RabbitGang
435
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Posted - 2015.09.24 15:49:00 -
[84] - Quote
Looking forward for the hotfix!
Now.... Quafe bpo weapons are standard weapons....
Sooooo.... tradeable??? |
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
26
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Posted - 2015.09.24 15:49:00 -
[85] - Quote
Asad Thahab-Jabal wrote:Rattati,
Is the new Gallente and Caldari dropsuit command bonuses replacing the current bonuses?
Or are they in addition to the current bonuses?
in addition
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Tri Stone
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
20
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Posted - 2015.09.24 15:49:00 -
[86] - Quote
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:Tri Stone wrote:Everything else looks beautiful but you are missing one thing, the balance on the OP active scanner equipment. Being discussed.
Thank you for the heads up Darth. Fixing of active scans will improve npe and the ewar warfare between suits.  |
Asad Thahab-Jabal
Incorruptibles
150
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Posted - 2015.09.24 15:50:00 -
[87] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Asad Thahab-Jabal wrote:Rattati,
Is the new Gallente and Caldari dropsuit command bonuses replacing the current bonuses?
Or are they in addition to the current bonuses? in addition Excellent. Thanks o7
Ripley Riley is on safari until Oct 9th. I will represent him until he returns.
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.09.24 15:51:00 -
[88] - Quote
Derp.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Echo 1991
Corrosive Synergy
No Context
941
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Posted - 2015.09.24 15:51:00 -
[89] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Asad Thahab-Jabal wrote:Rattati,
Is the new Gallente and Caldari dropsuit command bonuses replacing the current bonuses?
Or are they in addition to the current bonuses? in addition
What about that ion pistol skill though? (If this is beginning to irk you i will stop, I've just wanted it changed since you guys changed the sidearms that time)
Wanna play eve?
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
27
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Posted - 2015.09.24 15:53:00 -
[90] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Plasma Cannon doesn't get the weakpoint modifier that the Forge Gun gets?
Ratatouille plz Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon.
Wait, there are meant to be 'best' weapons?
o_O
Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
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Asad Thahab-Jabal
Incorruptibles
150
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 15:57:00 -
[91] - Quote
There was something here! I was about to type a thingy! 
Ripley Riley is on safari until Oct 9th. I will represent him until he returns.
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Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
846
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 15:57:00 -
[92] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Asad Thahab-Jabal wrote:Rattati,
Is the new Gallente and Caldari dropsuit command bonuses replacing the current bonuses?
Or are they in addition to the current bonuses? in addition
Do we have implement the Scrambler Rifle nerf at the same time as the Gal/Cal buff?
ADS Ramming Revenge!
Plasma Cannon Rampage
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 15:58:00 -
[93] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:please read the whole thing. Overall a massive buff for dedicated AV, both infantry and vehicle.
I did read the whole thing. Can you spell out the part where Swarms were buffed?
CCP Rattati wrote:Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon.
Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon?
Logically, my ability to punt infantry suits with the forge means it's superior to swarms in multiple ways.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
130
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:04:00 -
[94] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:please read the whole thing. Overall a massive buff for dedicated AV, both infantry and vehicle. I did read the whole thing. Can you spell out the part where Swarms were buffed? If the damage was buffed in a way I'm not realizing, can you explain how that's supposed to help when I have half the range of a forge gun, and can't really hit anything I want to fire at anyhow? CCP Rattati wrote:Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon? Logically, my ability to punt infantry suits with the forge means it's superior to swarms in multiple ways.
If anything swarms need an option to hit infantry in some way, or to be made a sidearm
A weapon that requires no active aiming or leading the target should never be the highest damaging weapon. Which is amusing, since damage wasn't touched. Classic CCP, dancing around the issue to the very end. |
Yoda Boss
Dem Durrty Boyz
275
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:04:00 -
[95] - Quote
I'll allow it.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒGû¬.°n+í¤GÿåGùÅ.° GÖñGÖíTrade/saleGÖºGÖñ
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
26
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:08:00 -
[96] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:please read the whole thing. Overall a massive buff for dedicated AV, both infantry and vehicle. I did read the whole thing. Can you spell out the part where Swarms were buffed? If the damage was buffed in a way I'm not realizing, can you explain how that's supposed to help when I have half the range of a forge gun, and can't really hit anything I want to fire at anyhow? CCP Rattati wrote:Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon? Logically, my ability to punt infantry suits with the forge means it's superior to swarms in multiple ways.
Does the forge have tracking? the forge is a heavy weapon with loads of drawbacks and therefore packs the highest punch.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Regnier Feros
Pielords
741
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:12:00 -
[97] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Plasma Cannon doesn't get the weakpoint modifier that the Forge Gun gets?
Ratatouille plz Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon.
On the topic of av weapons, is the laser rifle ever going to be considered an av weapon in the future?
LongLiveQueenZarZar
|
Tri Stone
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
20
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:14:00 -
[98] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Asad Thahab-Jabal wrote:Rattati,
Is the new Gallente and Caldari dropsuit command bonuses replacing the current bonuses?
Or are they in addition to the current bonuses? in addition
woooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow
Now the amarr assaults bonus really needs to be looked at.... it can only effect 2 light weapons.... meanwhile all the other factions not only have more weapons but also have one or both of its bonuses applying to it's sidearm/light weapon. that doesn't seem to fair or balanced Mr Rattati
change the amarr assault bonus to apply to it's sidearm if it light weapon is being severely nerfed. |
Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:15:00 -
[99] - Quote
Well, I hate to bring up old crap, but seeing as I'm shameless and the Devs seem to finally be showing the ADS some love, I may as well ask.
Since hotfix delta, we had our ROF reduced significantly to 3%. In a recent PC, I finally caved and decided to try a rocket on an incubus. I have Python and incubus maxed out, and noticed no ROF difference.
This wouldn't be so frustrating if the SP required to get it maxed out wasn't so monumentally high. My question is will there be any plans to make the SP we pilots sunk into these skills worth it? Perhaps an added minor benefit, or a slightly better ROF?
99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg
Oh yeah?! Well, I love redheads.
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:17:00 -
[100] - Quote
My only argument would be the Assault bonues..
Gallente with high RoF will be pretty nasty..
And.. again.. The Caldari reload is great!!, fast reloads to match fast recharge delays.. Kick reduction is just sending an invite for Cal Assaults to dominate in close ranges.. I've seen this spoke about a lot, always hoped the day would never come..
Edit: Just read replies and the bonuses are in addition to current..
Well thats OP
There should be some interesting spam on the battlefield soon
SOONtm
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DeathwindRising
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:19:00 -
[101] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:Zaria Min Deir wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:Correction: It's listed as melee in the excel doc...Rattati? Do you mean I can punch a tank now? I sure hope so, purely for the hilarity that will ensue. Is that why Commando Melee damage is being brought down substantially (from 1230hp to 750-ish)? If you managed your stamina properly for an engagement (and holding a sidearm or equipment) you could hit two times per second = 2460hp DPS. Which I could see adding up quickly against tanks if you managed to stand on top of it (which would prevent your death upon explosion). I may have screwed up the commando melee damage. Can you remind me what the base was.
240 |
jerrmy12 kahoalii
G0DS AM0NG MEN
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 16:21:00 -
[102] - Quote
Devadander wrote:May Balac have your back till the stars all die. oMF7
this sentence reminds me of End of the Universe
Closed beta vet.
Lurk mode is engaged.
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CeeJ Mantis
Mantodea MC
218
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:21:00 -
[103] - Quote
3 complaints about the changes.
1 Gallente And Amarr sentinels shield recharge rate. Shields comprise about 43% of a gal sentinel's hp, and I think that the recharge rate reduction is unnecessary. I think 15 (matched with the commando that has similar shield/armor ratios) would be better suited.
2 Commando Melee Damage. It is currently at 240, not 150. Personally, I found the commando melee damage to be a feature of the commando. If the value is going lower, I would like 200 instead of 170. Keeps good melee as a feature of the class.
3 Gallente assault bonus. I think that balanceing the assault rifle by making it better on 1 suit is the wrong way of going about it. It doesn't effect the tac or burst variants much at all, and makes shotguns already high dps more problematic. Also, as this is essentially a 20% dps increase, it marginalises the commandos bomus to damage. I would prefer is a any buffs to the assault rifle family of weapons instead be made on the weapon itself, rather than the assault drop suit, and instead find another bonus for the assault suit. and if you are going to go for a DPS increase, then might I suggest 2% per level instead of 5. Some assault rifles are going to encroach upon heavy machine gun damage territory with those high numbers.
Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
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Asad Thahab-Jabal
Incorruptibles
151
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:22:00 -
[104] - Quote
Rattati,
Are any more SKINs tradeable?
Ripley Riley is on safari until Oct 9th. I will represent him until he returns.
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
G0DS AM0NG MEN
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 16:32:00 -
[105] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Awesome. Now I can finally update my blog xD
Looking forward to reading and responding to comments and super excited to see how shield balancing works out. Can start working on Step Two of Shield Balancing. Unfortunately, all of that will have to wait until after class!
Keep killing, my friends!
you have school? .......
estimated time of release?
Closed beta vet.
Lurk mode is engaged.
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Bremen van Equis
Incorruptibles
719
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:35:00 -
[106] - Quote
IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:Thank you for keeping an AV role for the Minmando. Please may I have my Swarm Launcher tree SP back? :-o
You can have all your swarm launcher SP back after you deduct the SP you got using it to farm WP. Deal? ;)
Buckle up, boysGǪthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 16:39:00 -
[107] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:please read the whole thing. Overall a massive buff for dedicated AV, both infantry and vehicle. I did read the whole thing. Can you spell out the part where Swarms were buffed? If the damage was buffed in a way I'm not realizing, can you explain how that's supposed to help when I have half the range of a forge gun, and can't really hit anything I want to fire at anyhow? CCP Rattati wrote:Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon? Logically, my ability to punt infantry suits with the forge means it's superior to swarms in multiple ways. Does the forge have tracking? the forge is a heavy weapon with loads of drawbacks and therefore packs the highest punch.
This has never been remotely valid argument. Forges speed and direct path almost always guarantee a hit unless you are terrible at aiming. Swarms is rolling dice on impact with buildings and dropship pilots easily outrange your lock range before you can destroy them.
So where was the swarm buff again that mitigates your huge range nerf?
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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RedPencil
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
203
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Posted - 2015.09.24 16:42:00 -
[108] - Quote
WTF with Swarm nerf. I blame it on Darth-Carbonite GIO!
Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 16:48:00 -
[109] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:please read the whole thing. Overall a massive buff for dedicated AV, both infantry and vehicle. I did read the whole thing. Can you spell out the part where Swarms were buffed? If the damage was buffed in a way I'm not realizing, can you explain how that's supposed to help when I have half the range of a forge gun, and can't really hit anything I want to fire at anyhow? CCP Rattati wrote:Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon? Logically, my ability to punt infantry suits with the forge means it's superior to swarms in multiple ways. Does the forge have tracking? the forge is a heavy weapon with loads of drawbacks and therefore packs the highest punch.
Soraya Xel wrote:
Can you spell out .
Its amazing to think you were on the CPM with that attitude.
Its even more amazing to think you want a swarm launcher buff.
Its clear to see where any impasse was coming from regarding player feedback on the derpship and your own personal opinion.
To be clear:
Swarms are still the highest DPS AV weapon, with the exception of a forge round in the fuel cell.
Swarm flight time, distance and duration have not changed.
Swarm lock on time is the same.
Beacons can still lock on at 200m.
Any swarms fired will still travel 400m. Thats 100m farther than the forge gun.
Changes mean 25 meter reduced lock on. Thats not bad seeing as dropships can only engage effectivly from about 100 m.or less.
With the new weakpoint nerf (or as i see it tactical gameplay rewards) on tanks maybe I have chance to kill a fleeing tank from the air, or with a well placed mass driver.
Mass Drivers are now very dangerous AV and Anti Infantry. That gives the minmatar commando its own AV weapon and swarms are returned, rightfully, to the Caldari.
Dropsuit shiled buffs mean taking on caldari commando from the air is going to be very difficult.
Overall much more general protection for the infantry against pilots, and pilot "buffs" are mereley being able to out turn a swarm or two.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
|
Francois Sanchez
Prima Gallicus
547
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:49:00 -
[110] - Quote
To all those thinking the galass bonus is great :
Triple damage modded Duvolle AR on Galass :
844 DPS vs shield
601 DPS vs armour
Now, think to how fast the ASCR with triple damage mods drops you down currently :
804 DPS vs shield
467 DPS vs armour
or how fast a fully skilled ARR drops down your armour (one damage mod as it's generally the max you can decently fit on shield suits)
DPS vs armour : 568
And that's gonna be even worse with the breach AR
See? welcome to hell guys (except if you use galass of course) |
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axis alpha
ScReWeD uP InC
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 16:50:00 -
[111] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote:My only argument would be the Assault bonues.. Gallente with high RoF will be pretty nasty.. And.. again.. The Caldari reload is great!!, fast reloads to match fast recharge delays.. Kick reduction is just sending an invite for Cal Assaults to dominate in close ranges.. I've seen this spoke about a lot, always hoped the day would never come.. Edit: Just read replies and the bonuses are in addition to current.. Well thats OP There should be some interesting spam on the battlefield soon
Gal and cal everywhere
Hullaballo and howdy doo! Musty prawns, and Timbucktu.
Yeltsibee and hibbertyhoo
Kick 'em in the dishpan. Hoo hoo hoo!
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Operative 1174 Uuali
True Companion Planetary Requisitions
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 16:51:00 -
[112] - Quote
This just in:
Nova Knives are explosive damage weapons?
CCP logic GÇô We fix what doesn't need breaking.
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Balistyc Farshot
MONSTER SYNERGY
398
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:55:00 -
[113] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Plasma Cannon doesn't get the weakpoint modifier that the Forge Gun gets?
Ratatouille plz Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. Wait, there are meant to be 'best' weapons? o_O
Do you know what it takes to Forge a vehicle? Plus it is very tough to forge infantry since the myo jumping and splash removal. Let us heavies have that.
"Dying with your rep tool out - the logi-flasher!"
Who hasn't been caught by a cute little female scout doing this?
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:55:00 -
[114] - Quote
that looks like a wonderful collection of terrible ideas you has there rat
dust 514 ruined console gaming for me
pc master race
PORT IT CCP
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Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
133
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:06:00 -
[115] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:please read the whole thing. Overall a massive buff for dedicated AV, both infantry and vehicle. I did read the whole thing. Can you spell out the part where Swarms were buffed? If the damage was buffed in a way I'm not realizing, can you explain how that's supposed to help when I have half the range of a forge gun, and can't really hit anything I want to fire at anyhow? CCP Rattati wrote:Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon? Logically, my ability to punt infantry suits with the forge means it's superior to swarms in multiple ways. Does the forge have tracking? the forge is a heavy weapon with loads of drawbacks and therefore packs the highest punch. This has never been remotely valid argument. Forges speed and direct path almost always guarantee a hit unless you are terrible at aiming. Swarms is rolling dice on impact with buildings and dropship pilots easily outrange your lock range before you can destroy them. So where was the swarm buff again that mitigates your huge range nerf?
.....
Almost always guarantee a hit? What are you shooting, Pinatas? |
Balistyc Farshot
MONSTER SYNERGY
398
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:06:00 -
[116] - Quote
Plus with a ninja hotfix he put things in the DK shop - BPOs and skins.
Take some credit for that Ratati or let people like Frame for that!
As far as AV, just everyone put it away. The nerf versus buff is a sensitive battle. Just let them take this new stab at it.
Anyone who thinks a FG is going to snipe like it used to, isn't aware of the fact that sniping has become much more painful with all the good snipers having stacks of Thales in their closet.
The only request I have and I hate to derail a nice hotfix discussion, is there going to be any interface changes? (Like say removing the server change menu during battle to remove that as a potential source of lag.)
Also, will we get any information about how the data collection went with those other contracts? (If no, I understand.)
"Dying with your rep tool out - the logi-flasher!"
Who hasn't been caught by a cute little female scout doing this?
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Commander Noctus
Gallente Loyalist
275
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:06:00 -
[117] - Quote
On AV changes:
I personally think these will help, especially the addition of MD's to our arsenal. Too many times have I been AV and seen a Maddy roll up and take consecutive hits from swarms and forges and get away with half it's health. I am however worried how ADS will deal with that though. They might start dropping a tad too easily. Also, lol to the missle/explosive differentiation, Calmandos can finally use their own AV tech.
On Rifle Changes:
Alright, the heat increase for the Scrambler helps. Those are generally what I have issues with, yet I can imagine people now foregoing the charge entirely just to spam those lasers. Range decrease helps us AR users, though I would have preferred an increase to the AR OVER a decrease to the others. We'll see how that goes.
On Skill Changes:
I am rather wary of the fact that the Caldari and Gallente bonuses are actually ADDITIONS to our current bonuses. Yeah, I advocated this RoF bonus, but I always saw our new bonuses as REPLACEMENTS, not additions. Hopefully my stuff doesn't become the next FotM. Caldari doesn't seem to be as bad, but that kinda makes the commando a suit that should only be used in sniping. I can't say much more on that due to lack of experience with Caldari though.
On Shield Changes:
However, I have used Caldari suits long enough to say that the shield recharge stuff is a step in the right direction. No alpha boost means they'll still peel off when hit by lasers. Those numbers now support a more hit-and-run form of fighting. Following up on the rest of the suits is a good move too, so they're not left too far behind. Also, if I'm reading that right, delays times will now be lower when depleted?
On the Melee Changes
But...but...melee is my Commando's thing, right? That's one of their traits...right? Don't mind switching those Sentinel values maybe...? I mean, they're the only ones that can take advantage of it between those two.
Gallente User since Jan. 28th, 2013. Touched on every Gallente role since.
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Darth-Carbonite GIO
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:11:00 -
[118] - Quote
RedPencil wrote:WTF with Swarm nerf. I blame it on Darth-Carbonite GIO!
I accept the blame
"Sex is OK!" -CCP Rouge, Executive Producer of Dust and our benevolent overlord.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
4
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:14:00 -
[119] - Quote
Some of the changes appears to be good....I have to wait until it plays out to determine if any is helpful or too much. But am excited to see how the gameplay will change. Because it WILL ABSOLUTELY change......I feel a lot of respecs in the near future. Luckily, for some...we already have it all :)
"Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit"
Check RND out here
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:18:00 -
[120] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Some of the changes appears to be good....I have to wait until it plays out to determine if any is helpful or too much. But am excited to see how the gameplay will change. Because it WILL ABSOLUTELY change......I feel a lot of respecs in the near future. Luckily, for some...we already have it all :)
nade spam enjoy that
dust 514 ruined console gaming for me
pc master race
PORT IT CCP
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RedPencil
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
206
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:18:00 -
[121] - Quote
Commander Noctus wrote:
~~On the Melee Changes
But...but...melee is my Commando's thing, right? That's one of their traits...right? Don't mind switching those Sentinel values maybe...? I mean, they're the only ones that can take advantage of it between those two.
Ratt screw up it's number. He will fix it soon enough.
Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
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CeeJ Mantis
Mantodea MC
220
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:21:00 -
[122] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:Zaria Min Deir wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:Correction: It's listed as melee in the excel doc...Rattati? Do you mean I can punch a tank now? I sure hope so, purely for the hilarity that will ensue. Is that why Commando Melee damage is being brought down substantially (from 1230hp to 750-ish)? If you managed your stamina properly for an engagement (and holding a sidearm or equipment) you could hit two times per second = 2460hp DPS. Which I could see adding up quickly against tanks if you managed to stand on top of it (which would prevent your death upon explosion). I may have screwed up the commando melee damage. Can you remind me what the base was.
240
Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
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Commander Noctus
Gallente Loyalist
277
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:21:00 -
[123] - Quote
RedPencil wrote:Commander Noctus wrote:
~~On the Melee Changes
But...but...melee is my Commando's thing, right? That's one of their traits...right? Don't mind switching those Sentinel values maybe...? I mean, they're the only ones that can take advantage of it between those two.
Ratt screw up it's number. He will fix it soon enough.
Ahh, yeah, I skipped over that one when looking at dev posts. Phew, now my dreams of punching tanks to death are still alive!
Gallente User since Jan. 28th, 2013. Touched on every Gallente role since.
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Thumb Green
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:23:00 -
[124] - Quote
The RR kick reduction is only going to be for when you aim down sights, right?
Trying to bring the slayer logi back.... unsuccessfully so far.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
4
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:25:00 -
[125] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Some of the changes appears to be good....I have to wait until it plays out to determine if any is helpful or too much. But am excited to see how the gameplay will change. Because it WILL ABSOLUTELY change......I feel a lot of respecs in the near future. Luckily, for some...we already have it all :) nade spam enjoy that u can throw 20 grenades with adv nanos ..so yeah this is gunna be terrible for a bit until ccp fixes it .... really what they need to do is make it so locus nades cant be resupplied by nanos
why nade spam? ohh because of the buff to std and adv? People will still use cores, that buff won't be game changing.
"Bring out mass drivers & jump around goddamit"
Check RND out here
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:26:00 -
[126] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Some of the changes appears to be good....I have to wait until it plays out to determine if any is helpful or too much. But am excited to see how the gameplay will change. Because it WILL ABSOLUTELY change......I feel a lot of respecs in the near future. Luckily, for some...we already have it all :) nade spam enjoy that u can throw 20 grenades with adv nanos ..so yeah this is gunna be terrible for a bit until ccp fixes it .... really what they need to do is make it so locus nades cant be resupplied by nanos
If you aren't moving when a grenade or multiple grenades are being thrown at you you're an idiot. If you're a heavy that's another thing but any other suit should never stay in one place for more than 3 seconds, which is about the time it takes for a grenade to be thrown.
Plus that also restricts the grenade spammer to only a few meters of space which greatly limits his usefulness to his team.
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:27:00 -
[127] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Some of the changes appears to be good....I have to wait until it plays out to determine if any is helpful or too much. But am excited to see how the gameplay will change. Because it WILL ABSOLUTELY change......I feel a lot of respecs in the near future. Luckily, for some...we already have it all :) nade spam enjoy that u can throw 20 grenades with adv nanos ..so yeah this is gunna be terrible for a bit until ccp fixes it .... really what they need to do is make it so locus nades cant be resupplied by nanos why nade spam? ohh because of the buff to std and adv? People will still use cores, that buff won't be game changing.
Yeah I agree with this.
Fluxes are so much more useful anyway.
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:29:00 -
[128] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Some of the changes appears to be good....I have to wait until it plays out to determine if any is helpful or too much. But am excited to see how the gameplay will change. Because it WILL ABSOLUTELY change......I feel a lot of respecs in the near future. Luckily, for some...we already have it all :) nade spam enjoy that u can throw 20 grenades with adv nanos ..so yeah this is gunna be terrible for a bit until ccp fixes it .... really what they need to do is make it so locus nades cant be resupplied by nanos why nade spam? ohh because of the buff to std and adv? People will still use cores, that buff won't be game changing.
no but now every grenade is going to do 600 damage and you can get 20 from adv nanos ....
the nade spam is going to get worse everyone will be doing it now not just scrubs with proto gear
dust 514 ruined console gaming for me
pc master race
PORT IT CCP
|
Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:31:00 -
[129] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Some of the changes appears to be good....I have to wait until it plays out to determine if any is helpful or too much. But am excited to see how the gameplay will change. Because it WILL ABSOLUTELY change......I feel a lot of respecs in the near future. Luckily, for some...we already have it all :) nade spam enjoy that u can throw 20 grenades with adv nanos ..so yeah this is gunna be terrible for a bit until ccp fixes it .... really what they need to do is make it so locus nades cant be resupplied by nanos If you aren't moving when a grenade or multiple grenades are being thrown at you you're an idiot. If you're a heavy that's another thing but any other suit should never stay in one place for more than 3 seconds, which is about the time it takes for a grenade to be thrown. Plus that also restricts the grenade spammer to only a few meters of space which greatly limits his usefulness to his team.
grenade spamming shouldn't be a thing that was the whole point to the nanite consumption change a whole back but then they raised nanos to 6 carried and it brought it back
dust 514 ruined console gaming for me
pc master race
PORT IT CCP
|
XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:31:00 -
[130] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Some of the changes appears to be good....I have to wait until it plays out to determine if any is helpful or too much. But am excited to see how the gameplay will change. Because it WILL ABSOLUTELY change......I feel a lot of respecs in the near future. Luckily, for some...we already have it all :) nade spam enjoy that u can throw 20 grenades with adv nanos ..so yeah this is gunna be terrible for a bit until ccp fixes it .... really what they need to do is make it so locus nades cant be resupplied by nanos why nade spam? ohh because of the buff to std and adv? People will still use cores, that buff won't be game changing. no but now every grenade is going to do 600 damage and you can get 20 from adv nanos .... the nade spam is going to get worse everyone will be doing it now not just scrubs with proto gear
Again, nade spammers are useless to your team in 95% of situations.
AVERT YOUR EYES!
|
|
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CeeJ Mantis
Mantodea MC
221
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:32:00 -
[131] - Quote
I found 1 more thing that worres me. Grenades damage. If we are going to balance out grenades, then can we also tone the damage down a notch? Perhaps 500? The 600 damage of the core locus grenade is already really high. Especially against armor. Lower damage makes it more of a tool to use wisely, than a ln instakill on suits with less than 600 hp.
Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:32:00 -
[132] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Some of the changes appears to be good....I have to wait until it plays out to determine if any is helpful or too much. But am excited to see how the gameplay will change. Because it WILL ABSOLUTELY change......I feel a lot of respecs in the near future. Luckily, for some...we already have it all :) nade spam enjoy that u can throw 20 grenades with adv nanos ..so yeah this is gunna be terrible for a bit until ccp fixes it .... really what they need to do is make it so locus nades cant be resupplied by nanos If you aren't moving when a grenade or multiple grenades are being thrown at you you're an idiot. If you're a heavy that's another thing but any other suit should never stay in one place for more than 3 seconds, which is about the time it takes for a grenade to be thrown. Plus that also restricts the grenade spammer to only a few meters of space which greatly limits his usefulness to his team. grenade spamming shouldn't be a thing that was the whole point to the nanite consumption change a whole back but then they raised nanos to 6 carried and it brought it back
If people want to be limited to 5 meters of space only being able to chuck grenades then let them. I don't see you complaining about mass driver nanohive spamming...
AVERT YOUR EYES!
|
Kaze Eyrou
DUST University
Ivy League
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:34:00 -
[133] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Locus Grenade damage progression made Standard and Advanced grenades fairly useless, so we are going to have the same damage for all tiears, with increasing radius per tier. We are also fixing the Packed Locus and buffing the Fused Grenades considerably.
CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
Kaze's Helpful Links
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:36:00 -
[134] - Quote
Bro, I don't even use grenades at all and I'm a min scout so I die to an ADV locus (prebuff) anyway so I can already tell you this is not going to make a negative impact.
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
27
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:37:00 -
[135] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:please read the whole thing. Overall a massive buff for dedicated AV, both infantry and vehicle. CCP Rattati wrote:Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon? Logically, my ability to punt infantry suits with the forge means it's superior to swarms in multiple ways. Does the forge have tracking? the forge is a heavy weapon with loads of drawbacks and therefore packs the highest punch.
The forge has numerous huge improvements over swarms and honestly I can't see that many drawbacks to it.
The forge has pinpoint accuracy out to hundreds of metres. This is, far and away, the longest rangest AV option.
It is nearly hitscan - the projectile travels without dropoff and very quickly. At times, it's even easier to hit with than swarms are thanks to the many oddities of swarm tracking. Additionally, unlike swarms, this gives the target no time to react.
If you whack a dropship in the engine with a damage modded breach forge gun, you will do catastrophic damage. On lesser fits you can OHKO them. With weakpoint sniping (and the forge gun is really the only AV weapon that can reliably pull this off) I wouldn't be surprised to OHKO low tier tanks.
Let's just list the benefits and drawbacks of both.
Forge gun:
+ Longest ranged AV option
+ Has multiple useful variants
+ Highest alpha damage of all AV
+ Strong against infantry - there's a reason it's been used as a sniper replacement in the past (and been nerfed for it)
+ Most accurate AV option - can reliably hit weakpoints
+ Fastest projectile of all AV
- Charge time
- Lowered mobility whilst charging
- Has to be on a heavy suit (? Does this count as a real combat drawback?)
Swarm launcher:
+ Tracking
+ Doesn't need to be used on a heavy suit
- Short range
- Travel time
- Completely unable to defend against infantry, rendering a sidearm mandatory
- Unreliable on ground targets (e.g. frequently running into walls)
- Lock-on time (less than forge gun's charge up time though)
- Cannot be pre-charged (unlike the forge gun)
There're probably a couple of points you can scrounge elsewhere, but I don't really think that lineup favours the swarms.
Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
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CeeJ Mantis
Mantodea MC
222
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:40:00 -
[136] - Quote
Magsecs are already mechanically good. I wreck face with mine. I am a bit worried that this might be a bit too much. They only do slightly less DPS than SMGs, but have notably more range. I fear that this might bring one of my favorite guns into overpowered territory.
Longest plasma cannon kill: 236.45m
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:42:00 -
[137] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Some of the changes appears to be good....I have to wait until it plays out to determine if any is helpful or too much. But am excited to see how the gameplay will change. Because it WILL ABSOLUTELY change......I feel a lot of respecs in the near future. Luckily, for some...we already have it all :) nade spam enjoy that u can throw 20 grenades with adv nanos ..so yeah this is gunna be terrible for a bit until ccp fixes it .... really what they need to do is make it so locus nades cant be resupplied by nanos If you aren't moving when a grenade or multiple grenades are being thrown at you you're an idiot. If you're a heavy that's another thing but any other suit should never stay in one place for more than 3 seconds, which is about the time it takes for a grenade to be thrown. Plus that also restricts the grenade spammer to only a few meters of space which greatly limits his usefulness to his team. grenade spamming shouldn't be a thing that was the whole point to the nanite consumption change a whole back but then they raised nanos to 6 carried and it brought it back If people want to be limited to 5 meters of space only being able to chuck grenades then let them. I don't see you complaining about mass driver nanohive spamming...
mass drivers dont do 600 dmg a shot lol
nade spam is far more predominant than md spam and more effective
dust 514 ruined console gaming for me
pc master race
PORT IT CCP
|
XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:44:00 -
[138] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:please read the whole thing. Overall a massive buff for dedicated AV, both infantry and vehicle. CCP Rattati wrote:Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon? Logically, my ability to punt infantry suits with the forge means it's superior to swarms in multiple ways. Does the forge have tracking? the forge is a heavy weapon with loads of drawbacks and therefore packs the highest punch. The forge has numerous huge improvements over swarms and honestly I can't see that many drawbacks to it. The forge has pinpoint accuracy out to hundreds of metres. This is, far and away, the longest rangest AV option. It is nearly hitscan - the projectile travels without dropoff and very quickly. At times, it's even easier to hit with than swarms are thanks to the many oddities of swarm tracking. Additionally, unlike swarms, this gives the target no time to react. If you whack a dropship in the engine with a damage modded breach forge gun, you will do catastrophic damage. On lesser fits you can OHKO them. With weakpoint sniping (and the forge gun is really the only AV weapon that can reliably pull this off) I wouldn't be surprised to OHKO low tier tanks. Let's just list the benefits and drawbacks of both. Forge gun: + Longest ranged AV option + Has multiple useful variants + Highest alpha damage of all AV + Strong against infantry - there's a reason it's been used as a sniper replacement in the past (and been nerfed for it) + Most accurate AV option - can reliably hit weakpoints + Fastest projectile of all AV - Charge time - Lowered mobility whilst charging - Has to be on a heavy suit (? Does this count as a real combat drawback?) Swarm launcher: + Tracking+ Doesn't need to be used on a heavy suit - Short range - Travel time - Completely unable to defend against infantry, rendering a sidearm mandatory - Unreliable on ground targets (e.g. frequently running into walls) - Lock-on time (less than forge gun's charge up time though) - Cannot be pre-charged (unlike the forge gun) There're probably a couple of points you can scrounge elsewhere, but I don't really think that lineup favours the swarms.
-Forge is not the longest ranged AV weapon, swarm launchers track out to 100 meters more than forge guns.
-Multiple "useful" variants? Let's admit something here, Breach FG makes you a fish out of water, and the Vanilla FG is inferior to the IAFG in almost every aspect.
-Swarms still have higher DPS then any other AV weapon
-So what if it's the fastest projectile (and that's still wrong, rail gun on a tank is AV and has a faster projectile) a dropship can still out speed a forge gun shot any day
-Don't forget that it takes skill to use a forge gun because it does not have tracking, where on a swarm launcher all you need to do is point, wait a second, and release and repeat.
-Who the heck cares about travel time? It goes out to 400 meters and only an ADS with a complex AB can out run that and even then just barely.
-Sidearms are just as useful as light weapons if you can use them correctly
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:46:00 -
[139] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:
nade spam enjoy that
u can throw 20 grenades with adv nanos ..so yeah this is gunna be terrible for a bit until ccp fixes it ....
really what they need to do is make it so locus nades cant be resupplied by nanos
If you aren't moving when a grenade or multiple grenades are being thrown at you you're an idiot. If you're a heavy that's another thing but any other suit should never stay in one place for more than 3 seconds, which is about the time it takes for a grenade to be thrown. Plus that also restricts the grenade spammer to only a few meters of space which greatly limits his usefulness to his team. grenade spamming shouldn't be a thing that was the whole point to the nanite consumption change a whole back but then they raised nanos to 6 carried and it brought it back If people want to be limited to 5 meters of space only being able to chuck grenades then let them. I don't see you complaining about mass driver nanohive spamming... mass drivers dont do 600 dmg a shot lol nade spam is far more predominant than md spam and more effective
I disagree with you entirely. You can shoot a mass driver far more faster and farther than a locus grenade. You don't have to have be on a nanohive to spam a mass driver (you only need to have one near you) and last time I checked locus nades don't have 100% efficiency against vehicles.
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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Regnier Feros
Pielords
744
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:46:00 -
[140] - Quote
Bons + Gal rof bonus.............
LongLiveQueenZarZar
|
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:48:00 -
[141] - Quote
Regnier Feros wrote:Bons + Gal rof bonus.............
The ROF bonus only applies to the Assault Rifles
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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Regnier Feros
Pielords
745
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:52:00 -
[142] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Regnier Feros wrote:Bons + Gal rof bonus............. The ROF bonus only applies to the Assault Rifles
hmm
LongLiveQueenZarZar
|
XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:53:00 -
[143] - Quote
Regnier Feros wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Regnier Feros wrote:Bons + Gal rof bonus............. The ROF bonus only applies to the Assault Rifles hmm
So don't worry, no machine gun Bon's shotguns
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:57:00 -
[144] - Quote
I'll go through each change and provide my feedback. There is a lot and I am really excited to see the meta get shaken up. Mostly good things but there are some things I'm not sure about, and some I don't like.
Trade - nice.
Small blaster - nice for dropships, but I'm disappointed for them on HAVs. Are we supposed to fire at the ground by people's feet. I don't think this will be easy in an HAV, and is quite counter-intuitive/weird. I suspect they will still be pretty rubbish on HAVs.
Breach shotgun buff - I'm very happy to see it finally get buffed. Not the way I would have done it as I feel range and reload speed would make it a more interesting weapon. But happy nonetheless.
Assault SMG - again, happy it's being buffed, but I believe it will have more range and dps than the basic variant, for the cost of only a very small amount of damage per mag and some fitting. A bit OP?
Bolt pistol - ok
Magsec - high dps, hope it's not OP
Scrambler pistols - nice!
Biotics - generally very happy, especially the kincat PG reductions. Myo PG increase should help reduce Myo+armour stacking.
Regulator CPU - Interesting choice to reduce regulator CPU. It's not a huge change, but I like that it will offset some of the high CPU cost of energisers for people who fit both.
Seems like a rather large nerf to the scrambler. +33% heat build up (is this just on charge shots?) 400% increase in kick and a movement penalty? I hope this won't prove an over-nerf.
Assault variant range nerfs - good for the ARR. Other rifles will still be fine.
AScr heat increase - doesn't look like too much.
Cal HAVs - not a tanker but this seems like a much needed change. Very happy about this.
I mostly like the skill changes.
Cal Ass bonus -Does the Caldari bonus work on hipfire? The hipfire kick helps balance it at short range. I was also kind of hoping for a spool reduction instead, as the RR 0.6s spool seems long. But this seems good anyway.
Gal Ass bonus - I assume this will be +1% per level? +25% rof would be pretty OP I feel. At +5% I think this will be a nice addition and make the Gal Assault + AR pretty scary at shorter ranges, like it should be.
Commando swarm skill - I like it. may upset Min Commandos. Depends how good mass drivers become at AV.
Shields - It's nice to have more order to it. Shield mediums and commandos get a needed buff to shield regen. It's nice to see that community feedback was taken into account and armour suit regen and delay won't be buffed as much as originally proposed. It still suffers the problem of buffing some classes significantly more than others though. Which I feel will need to be addressed to maintain balance. This doesn't have to be done with shields though, other areas can be tweaked.
BUT
We never got to give feedback on depleted delays. This seems pretty silly to me. I guess it's ok on shield suits, though it may encourage more dual tanking. It's nice for sentinels, who need to regen more hp and have lower regen rates. But armour mediums are getting a large buff here. This is going to exacerbate the imbalance being introduced between scouts and mediums.
Scouts are going to need a buff. Rattati has mentioned a cloak buff is on the cards. I guess this never made it in, which is a bit disappointing. If not in this hotfix, I'm hoping for a cloak delay reduction soon. Let's say 50%. Pls Rattati \o/.
HAV weak points - all good. Like it. By melee do you mean knives, or do you actually mean melee?
Swarms vs ADS - like
Melee - fair enough, though commandos currently do 240dmg. And Minmatar scouts currently do 120dmg.
Grenades - Nice, but I hope advanced locus aren't OP.
In the end, I like most of it, even if it's not all exactly how I'd want it done. Will be interesting to see how the meta changes. I hope we won't have to wait long for the inevitable scout buff. |
Avallo Kantor
877
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:59:00 -
[145] - Quote
I'm really happy to hear the other racial assaults are getting bonuses to their racial rifles, as I feel Assaults should be the unquestioned masters of their race's rifle lineup.
That said, I do worry slightly about the bonuses being in addition to previous bonuses as I feel it gives those suits a bit too much bang for their SP.
"Mind Blown" - CCP Rattati
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:00:00 -
[146] - Quote
Also, when will this be deployed?
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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CommanderBolt
Dead Man's Game
4
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:01:00 -
[147] - Quote
I dont even know where to begin!
First off - ******* LOVE YOU MAN FOR MAGSEC AND BURST SCRAM PISTOL BUFFS! <3
A lot of things I had no idea you were going to do and some interesting ideas that are really going to change the meta.
Cautiously optimistic about this hotfix. The meta will swing wildly with this for sure.
OH **** SAN! REDUCED PG FOR MY FAVOUTRITE RED MODULES! Totally SOLD now
Wait wait wait...
(Sorry im like a kid in a candy store!)
So Gallente Assault is going to buff the rate of fire of the Tac AR? Ohhhhhhhhhhhh mmmmmmmmmm come to papa daddy Gall Assault TAC combo!
"Madness how we turned our common-ground into a battle-ground.." - Essa
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:02:00 -
[148] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:I dont even know where to begin!
First off - ******* LOVE YOU MAN FOR MAGSEC AND BURST SCRAM PISTOL BUFFS! <3
A lot of things I had no idea you were going to do and some interesting ideas that are really going to change the meta.
Cautiously optimistic about this hotfix. The meta will swing wildly with this for sure.
Min Scouts will still be min scouts and wreck people so I'm not complaining.
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:02:00 -
[149] - Quote
Could you normalize the Assault Submachine gun varients' PG/CPU with the other varients as well?
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:05:00 -
[150] - Quote
last i checked i was saying nade spam is an issue i dont give a flying kitten what your opinion on mds is lol
and holding up the fact that min scout gets popped by all grenades there for nade damage buff has no negative impact is illogical you cant claim something has no impact on everything just because it doesnt impact one thing.
im calling it nade spam qq is the future of dust
dust 514 ruined console gaming for me
pc master race
PORT IT CCP
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|
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:08:00 -
[151] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:last i checked i was saying nade spam is an issue i dont give a flying kitten what your opinion on mds is lol
and holding up the fact that min scout gets popped by all grenades there for nade damage buff has no negative impact is illogical you cant claim something has no impact on everything just because it doesnt impact one thing.
im calling it nade spam qq is the future of dust
No, I'm saying it's not an issue because I never stay in one place for more than a second so grenades are completely irrelavent to me.
AVERT YOUR EYES!
|
CommanderBolt
Dead Man's Game
4
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:09:00 -
[152] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:please read the whole thing. Overall a massive buff for dedicated AV, both infantry and vehicle. I did read the whole thing. Can you spell out the part where Swarms were buffed? If the damage was buffed in a way I'm not realizing, can you explain how that's supposed to help when I have half the range of a forge gun, and can't really hit anything I want to fire at anyhow? CCP Rattati wrote:Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon? Logically, my ability to punt infantry suits with the forge means it's superior to swarms in multiple ways. Does the forge have tracking? the forge is a heavy weapon with loads of drawbacks and therefore packs the highest punch.
As someone who uses the PLC and Forge both on a regular basis, I am ok with this.
The PLC is a great utility weapon, splash for damaging enemies around corners, direct shots for taking out infantry, lucky / SIK shots for putting hurt on dropships and a half reasonable form of AV to help push away tanks.
I think the forge needs the crit shots more than the PLC.
"Madness how we turned our common-ground into a battle-ground.." - Essa
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:10:00 -
[153] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:last i checked i was saying nade spam is an issue i dont give a flying kitten what your opinion on mds is lol
and holding up the fact that min scout gets popped by all grenades there for nade damage buff has no negative impact is illogical you cant claim something has no impact on everything just because it doesnt impact one thing.
im calling it nade spam qq is the future of dust No, I'm saying it's not an issue because I never stay in one place for more than a second so grenades are completely irrelavent to me.
to you
exactly that isnt an argument of any kind
nades will be op if you dont have actual counter arguments to what im saying then why are you quoting me lol
dust 514 ruined console gaming for me
pc master race
PORT IT CCP
|
XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:11:00 -
[154] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:last i checked i was saying nade spam is an issue i dont give a flying kitten what your opinion on mds is lol
and holding up the fact that min scout gets popped by all grenades there for nade damage buff has no negative impact is illogical you cant claim something has no impact on everything just because it doesnt impact one thing.
im calling it nade spam qq is the future of dust No, I'm saying it's not an issue because I never stay in one place for more than a second so grenades are completely irrelavent to me. to you exactly that isnt an argument of any kind nades will be op if you dont have actual counter arguments to what im saying then why are you quoting me lol
I'm quoting you because I can quote you.
#dealwithit
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:15:00 -
[155] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:last i checked i was saying nade spam is an issue i dont give a flying kitten what your opinion on mds is lol
and holding up the fact that min scout gets popped by all grenades there for nade damage buff has no negative impact is illogical you cant claim something has no impact on everything just because it doesnt impact one thing.
im calling it nade spam qq is the future of dust No, I'm saying it's not an issue because I never stay in one place for more than a second so grenades are completely irrelavent to me. to you exactly that isnt an argument of any kind nades will be op if you dont have actual counter arguments to what im saying then why are you quoting me lol I'm quoting you because I can quote you. #dealwithit
seem like your pointlessly derailing
my guess is despite your statement
you probably are one of said people that only know how to throw grenades
that tends to be the case whenever a logical statement that would result in someones toy being nerfed is put out..
looks at all the "skilled players" that defended the long range rail rifle when i made threads that it needed nerfed for months ..then guess what ccp nerfed it
i bet ur just defending your tactic
most people i know of think grenades are a problem in fact the suggestion to remove the ability to resupply them with nanos has been around for 2 years cough cough KAZE kinda like the cough cough (vehicle lock)
(runs and hides dont ban me ccp i said it VEHICLE LOCK )
dust 514 ruined console gaming for me
pc master race
PORT IT CCP
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nicholas73
Glitched Connection
488
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:16:00 -
[156] - Quote
Finally looks like a good update.
Since the grenades are being looked at what about the sleek variant? That definitely needs a buff.
Jack of all trades, master of none.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:23:00 -
[157] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:-Forge is not the longest ranged AV weapon, swarm launchers track out to 100 meters more than forge guns.
This is entirely useless/unhelpful, because you can't freaking FIRE.
Swarms need 200-250 meter lock range to be a viable weapon against dropships. Their ability to outrange swarms is ridiculous, and for some reason swarms keep getting nerfed further.
Let's just agree that if this swarm nerf isn't reversed, we should just remove swarms. Having them in the game and claiming they're AV weapons is just lying to newbies.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:23:00 -
[158] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:
and holding up the fact that min scout gets popped by all grenades there for nade damage buff has no negative impact is illogical you cant claim something has no impact on everything just because it doesnt impact one thing.
im calling it nade spam qq is the future of dust
No, I'm saying it's not an issue because I never stay in one place for more than a second so grenades are completely irrelavent to me. to you exactly that isnt an argument of any kind nades will be op if you dont have actual counter arguments to what im saying then why are you quoting me lol I'm quoting you because I can quote you. #dealwithit
seem like your pointlessly derailing
my guess is despite your statement
you probably are one of said people that only know how to throw grenades
that tends to be the case whenever a logical statement that would result in someones toy being nerfed is put out..
looks at all the "skilled players" that defended the long range rail rifle when i made threads that it needed nerfed for months ..then guess what ccp nerfed it
i bet ur just defending your tactic
most people i know of think grenades are a problem in fact the suggestion to remove the ability to resupply them with nanos has been around for 2 years cough cough KAZE kinda like the cough cough (vehicle lock)
(runs and hides dont ban me ccp i said it VEHICLE LOCK )[/quote]
I'm not even skilled into grenades.
AVERT YOUR EYES!
|
jerrmy12 kahoalii
G0DS AM0NG MEN
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:24:00 -
[159] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:last i checked i was saying nade spam is an issue i dont give a flying kitten what your opinion on mds is lol
and holding up the fact that min scout gets popped by all grenades there for nade damage buff has no negative impact is illogical you cant claim something has no impact on everything just because it doesnt impact one thing.
im calling it nade spam qq is the future of dust No, I'm saying it's not an issue because I never stay in one place for more than a second so grenades are completely irrelavent to me. to you exactly that isnt an argument of any kind nades will be op if you dont have actual counter arguments to what im saying then why are you quoting me lol I'm quoting you because I can quote you. #dealwithit
NO U
so, shield stats? i can't view the docs on mobile
Closed beta vet.
Lurk mode is engaged.
|
XxWarlordxX97
L0RDS 0F LEGI0N
4
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:29:00 -
[160] - Quote
can I get a free repec when this hotfix comes out
Buff my cal heavy
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Kaze Eyrou
DUST University
Ivy League
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:31:00 -
[161] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:NO U
so, shield stats? i can't view the docs on mobile
QAOldNew
okRecharge Rate126220
okRecharge Delay43
okDepleted Delay106
OldOldOldNewNewNew
QAFactionRoleShield RechargeRecharge DelayThresholdShield RechargeRecharge DelayThreshold
okCaldariScout (basic)503650311
okCaldariLogistics (basic)254645311
okCaldariAssault3056403.510
okCaldariCommando (basic)206635410
okCaldariSentinel30463049
okMinmatarScout4046453.510
okMinmatarLogistics2056403.510
okMinmatarAssault25663549
okMinmatarCommando1866304.59
okMinmatarSentinel2046254.58
okGallenteScout30463059
okGallenteLogistics15662559
okGallenteAssault2076205.58
okGallenteCommando15761568
okGallenteSentinel15561067
okAmarrScout3046305.58
okAmarrLogistics1566255.58
okAmarrAssault20762067
okAmarrCommando1576156.57
okAmarrSentinel1556106.56
Depleted DelaysProposed CaldariProposed MatariProposed GallenteProposed Amarr
okAllLight Suits3456
okAllMedium Suits2345
okAllHeavy Suits1234
Unfortunately, I'm too lazy to take a screenshot of it (unless someone else wants to do it, my screen is a bit small anyways), and formatting on the forums is pretty bad. But here it is.
Kinda wishing there was a [code] tag ability.
CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
Kaze's Helpful Links
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
428
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:32:00 -
[162] - Quote
Kaze Eyrou wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:NO U
so, shield stats? i can't view the docs on mobile QAOldNew okRecharge Rate126220 okRecharge Delay43 okDepleted Delay106 OldOldOldNewNewNew QAFactionRoleShield RechargeRecharge DelayThresholdShield RechargeRecharge DelayThreshold okCaldariScout (basic)503650311 okCaldariLogistics (basic)254645311 okCaldariAssault3056403.510 okCaldariCommando (basic)206635410 okCaldariSentinel30463049 okMinmatarScout4046453.510 okMinmatarLogistics2056403.510 okMinmatarAssault25663549 okMinmatarCommando1866304.59 okMinmatarSentinel2046254.58 okGallenteScout30463059 okGallenteLogistics15662559 okGallenteAssault2076205.58 okGallenteCommando15761568 okGallenteSentinel15561067 okAmarrScout3046305.58 okAmarrLogistics1566255.58 okAmarrAssault20762067 okAmarrCommando1576156.57 okAmarrSentinel1556106.56 Depleted DelaysProposed CaldariProposed MatariProposed GallenteProposed Amarr okAllLight Suits3456 okAllMedium Suits2345 okAllHeavy Suits1234
Unfortunately, I'm too lazy to take a screenshot of it (unless someone else wants to do it, my screen is a bit small anyways), and formatting on the forums is pretty bad. But here it is. Kinda wishing there was a [code] tag ability.
http://i.imgur.com/AyvqAgn.png
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
Learning Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:41:00 -
[163] - Quote
I found myself nodding in agreement with the changes several times while reading the original post, particularly on the rifle section.
I am looking forward to trying the Magsec again.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Regnier Feros
Pielords
750
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:45:00 -
[164] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:I found myself nodding in agreement with the changes several times while reading the original post, particularly on the rifle section.
I am looking forward to trying the Magsec again.
The assault scrambler pistol caught my eye
LongLiveQueenZarZar
|
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
137
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:46:00 -
[165] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:-Forge is not the longest ranged AV weapon, swarm launchers track out to 100 meters more than forge guns. This is entirely useless/unhelpful, because you can't freaking FIRE. Swarms need 200-250 meter lock range to be a viable weapon against dropships. Their ability to outrange swarms is ridiculous, and for some reason swarms keep getting nerfed further. Let's just agree that if this swarm nerf isn't reversed, we should just remove swarms. Having them in the game and claiming they're AV weapons is just lying to newbies.
Wow, could you get worse?
So, the second a dropship deploys, anywhere on the map, you want to be able to fire at it with auto aim weapons? Seriously? The few actually SKILLED swarmers that exists have ALWAYS waited till the dropship gets nice and close before unloading their missiles, because that almost ensures a kill and keeps you more protected via knocking the ship around (reducing it is stupid, by the way).
The only weapon that's going to hit you from 150+ meters is the small missile launcher, and that's extremely unlikely thanks to you being the size of a flees *****, and likely not even rendering to begin with. Side gunners might reak a little bit of havok finally, but probably not, since hovering still in midair is a wonderful way to get insta gibbed by rails and forge guns, and swarm launchers will still be able to hit you if they get beneath you where your gunners can't see.
Stop being bad.
Seriously |
XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:48:00 -
[166] - Quote
Regnier Feros wrote:Fox Gaden wrote:I found myself nodding in agreement with the changes several times while reading the original post, particularly on the rifle section.
I am looking forward to trying the Magsec again. The assault scrambler pistol caught my eye
Hopefully it will be as useful as in the old days.
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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Sgt Kirk
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
12
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:51:00 -
[167] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:Francois Sanchez wrote:A few things worry me :
The gal RoF bonus seems too good, and keep in mind it will buff variants such as the breach and the tactical that don't need a buff. It will also buff shotguns. We've had assurances from Rattati that the bonus will apply to AR's only. We were obviously concerned about the Bons becoming a machine shotgun gun. Also bare in mind that AR's will now be eating up ammo like candy so the clips will drain much faster.
YOU ALL MISSED THE CHANCE TO EXPERIENCE THE GLORY OF THE BON BON MACHINE GUN
Sgt Kirk's Propaganda Youtube Channel
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Kaze Eyrou
DUST University
Ivy League
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:52:00 -
[168] - Quote
Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:Kaze Eyrou wrote:jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:NO U
so, shield stats? i can't view the docs on mobile QAOldNew okRecharge Rate126220 okRecharge Delay43 okDepleted Delay106 OldOldOldNewNewNew QAFactionRoleShield RechargeRecharge DelayThresholdShield RechargeRecharge DelayThreshold okCaldariScout (basic)503650311 okCaldariLogistics (basic)254645311 okCaldariAssault3056403.510 okCaldariCommando (basic)206635410 okCaldariSentinel30463049 okMinmatarScout4046453.510 okMinmatarLogistics2056403.510 okMinmatarAssault25663549 okMinmatarCommando1866304.59 okMinmatarSentinel2046254.58 okGallenteScout30463059 okGallenteLogistics15662559 okGallenteAssault2076205.58 okGallenteCommando15761568 okGallenteSentinel15561067 okAmarrScout3046305.58 okAmarrLogistics1566255.58 okAmarrAssault20762067 okAmarrCommando1576156.57 okAmarrSentinel1556106.56 Depleted DelaysProposed CaldariProposed MatariProposed GallenteProposed Amarr okAllLight Suits3456 okAllMedium Suits2345 okAllHeavy Suits1234
Unfortunately, I'm too lazy to take a screenshot of it (unless someone else wants to do it, my screen is a bit small anyways), and formatting on the forums is pretty bad. But here it is. Kinda wishing there was a [code] tag ability. http://i.imgur.com/AyvqAgn.png
Thank you kind sir. Have an internet.
CB Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
Kaze's Helpful Links
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Aeon Amadi
12
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:04:00 -
[169] - Quote
jerrmy12 kahoalii wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Awesome. Now I can finally update my blog xD
Looking forward to reading and responding to comments and super excited to see how shield balancing works out. Can start working on Step Two of Shield Balancing. Unfortunately, all of that will have to wait until after class!
Keep killing, my friends! you have school? .......estimated time of release?
Kust got out of school. Eating lunch then heading home and can talk more.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Mikel Arias
Challengers 506
199
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:05:00 -
[170] - Quote
When? I didnt read all, but in what I read I didnt see anything about this. |
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:08:00 -
[171] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:
Forge gun:
+ Longest ranged AV option
+ Has multiple useful variants
+ Highest alpha damage of all AV
+ Strong against infantry - there's a reason it's been used as a sniper replacement in the past (and been nerfed for it)
+ Most accurate AV option - can reliably hit weakpoints
+ Fastest projectile of all AV
- Charge time
- Lowered mobility whilst charging
- Has to be on a heavy suit (? Does this count as a real combat drawback?)
Swarm launcher:
+ Tracking
+ Doesn't need to be used on a heavy suit
- Short range
- Travel time
- Completely unable to defend against infantry, rendering a sidearm mandatory
- Unreliable on ground targets (e.g. frequently running into walls)
- Lock-on time (less than forge gun's charge up time though)
- Cannot be pre-charged (unlike the forge gun)
There're probably a couple of points you can scrounge elsewhere, but I don't really think that lineup favours the swarms.
The one thing that has always bugged me about the FG is that range. It's a railgun on a heavy suit that has full up and down directional aiming and able to position itself in far more advantageous positions over a tank it's intended to fight. I would personally like to see the FG get knocked down a peg or two on range.
Maybe trade out for more damage but less range.
Breakin, where you at fool. |
Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
432
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:11:00 -
[172] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:
Forge gun:
+ Longest ranged AV option
+ Has multiple useful variants
+ Highest alpha damage of all AV
+ Strong against infantry - there's a reason it's been used as a sniper replacement in the past (and been nerfed for it)
+ Most accurate AV option - can reliably hit weakpoints
+ Fastest projectile of all AV
- Charge time
- Lowered mobility whilst charging
- Has to be on a heavy suit (? Does this count as a real combat drawback?)
Swarm launcher:
+ Tracking
+ Doesn't need to be used on a heavy suit
- Short range
- Travel time
- Completely unable to defend against infantry, rendering a sidearm mandatory
- Unreliable on ground targets (e.g. frequently running into walls)
- Lock-on time (less than forge gun's charge up time though)
- Cannot be pre-charged (unlike the forge gun)
There're probably a couple of points you can scrounge elsewhere, but I don't really think that lineup favours the swarms.
The one thing that has always bugged me about the FG is that range. It's a railgun on a heavy suit that has full up and down directional aiming and able to position itself in far more advantageous positions over a tank it's intended to fight. I would personally like to see the FG get knocked down a peg or two on range. Maybe trade out for more damage but less range. Breakin, where you at fool.
At the same time though, the forge gun has lower magazine, ammo carried, and a slower refire rate than the big railgun turret. Additionally, the platforms the forge gun is deployed on are far more susceptible to small-arms fire than the HAVs/emplacements the Railgun turrets go on. My only problem with the forge gun is how effective it is at sniping...making it effectively a better sniper rifle than the sniper rifle, but this is more an issue with the sniper rifles than with the forge gun itself
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
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7th Son 7
Hakuna Matatah Inc
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:16:00 -
[173] - Quote
Since when were my advanced grenades " fairly useless "? I'm confused
Only your complete and total awareness is needed, nothing else will do. ----- OSHO
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:18:00 -
[174] - Quote
Let me propose a far better swarm fix, Rattati.
- Increase the lockon range to 225-250m.
- Reduce the tracking range to more like 250m-275m.
This is both a quality of life improvement for:
- Swarmers can now actually fire at dropships again, without having to try to position themselves directly under the target.
- Dropships have a much more reasonable chance of escaping shots they are actively trying to avoid.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Duke Noobiam
The Dukes of Death
549
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:19:00 -
[175] - Quote
As others have done, I'd like to voice my concern on the galente assault bonus.
It seems to me that 5% per level is obviously too much when you consider this will basically translate to a 25% DPS increase. We've seen in the past that much smaller increases to DPS have had huge impacts on balance and weapon viability.
Examples:
1. The ASCR DPS was recently buffed by 15%, it is now acknowledged that the weapon is unbalanced.
2. The 10% damage bonus my Commando gets is very noticeable when compared to using the same weapon with a logi or assault.
Why not make it 2% or 3% per level and evaluate the impact of the change rather than using a number that is glaringly too big and that will require lowering within one week of the release? |
Asad Thahab-Jabal
Incorruptibles
157
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:29:00 -
[176] - Quote
Duke Noobiam wrote:It seems to me that 5% per level is obviously too much when you consider this will basically translate to a 25% DPS increase. It is a 5% flat bonus, or 1% per level. Not 5% per level.
Ripley Riley is on safari until Oct 9th. I will represent him until he returns.
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Jakkal Shoobah
Eastern Star Recon Group
237
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:32:00 -
[177] - Quote
Please don't **** this up dust community. That is all.
While slow to anger and occasionally indecisive, they are also capable of harnessing enormous resolve when truly tested.
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:33:00 -
[178] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Let me propose a far better swarm fix, Rattati.
- Increase the lockon range to 225-250m.
- Reduce the tracking range to more like 250m-275m.
This is both a quality of life improvement for:
- Swarmers can now actually fire at dropships again, without having to try to position themselves directly under the target.
- Dropships have a much more reasonable chance of escaping shots they are actively trying to avoid.
You still get the turning radius nerf, which is fine, but we need some operational range we just don't have to make swarms viable. Forge still maintains far superior damage, range, and accuracy.
Horrible idea. In truth, there isn't any true benefit for ADS at this stage, except for less dramatic avoiding maneuvers.
On top of that, giving swarms an increase in range will allow one of the most annoying tactics I've ever had to deal with. Redline swarms. And before you ask "what were you doing so close to the redline" check out some of the maps in dom, ACQ, hell even some skirmish matches have letters right up near the red zone. Telling me to avoid that is to basically tell me not to try to win, or assist my team.
99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg
Oh yeah?! Well, I love redheads.
|
Bremen van Equis
Incorruptibles
722
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:38:00 -
[179] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Let me propose a far better swarm fix, Rattati.
- Increase the lockon range to 225-250m.
- Reduce the tracking range to more like 250m-275m.
This is both a quality of life improvement for:
- Swarmers can now actually fire at dropships again, without having to try to position themselves directly under the target.
- Dropships have a much more reasonable chance of escaping shots they are actively trying to avoid.
You still get the turning radius nerf, which is fine, but we need some operational range we just don't have to make swarms viable. Forge still maintains far superior damage, range, and accuracy.
Remember, dear Soraya, with your sweet sculptural logics and werds, that the swarmer is effectively invisible (not rendering) to the DS pilot outside of the new lockon range.
Now pilots will be able to see you with your buffed shields on your buffed swarm-dmg calmando around the same time they can actually engage you. Wutz the problem?
Buckle up, boysGǪthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
|
Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:40:00 -
[180] - Quote
At 150m lockon, it is functionally impossible to kill a dropship that isn't AFK.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
|
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Moochie Cricket
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:42:00 -
[181] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:So in nerfing swarm range YET AGAIN, when it badly needed a buff to be able to hit... anything even remotely airborne.... swarms can now only be used against dropships that are parked. Which you are standing next to?
GTFO
Caldari
REALLY 514
|
XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:44:00 -
[182] - Quote
Moochie Cricket wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:So in nerfing swarm range YET AGAIN, when it badly needed a buff to be able to hit... anything even remotely airborne.... swarms can now only be used against dropships that are parked. Which you are standing next to? GTFO
I have no idea how he of all people got on CPM 1.
AVERT YOUR EYES!
|
Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:44:00 -
[183] - Quote
Let's be clear, nobody's "forgetting" anything. Dropship pilots are conveniently leaving out realities that help ensure they're OP, but that's not any different than usual.
You need a 250m range in order to be able to engage at 150m. Because if a swarm launcher is engaging at maximum range, then the dropship pilot can fly out of lock range too quickly to fire enough swarms to even do significant damage.
I need 250m range so that I know when I fire at 150m, I might be able to get a couple shots off before dropships buzz out of range.
Now, if you're worried about redlining, and need to keep the range short: We can just half the speed of dropships instead. But I think the range is a much better solution.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
|
Aeon Amadi
12
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:45:00 -
[184] - Quote
Duke Noobiam wrote:As others have done, I'd like to voice my concern on the galente assault bonus.
It seems to me that 5% per level is obviously too much when you consider this will basically translate to a 25% DPS increase. We've seen in the past that much smaller increases to DPS have had huge impacts on balance and weapon viability.
Examples:
1. The ASCR DPS was recently buffed by 15%, it is now acknowledged that the weapon is unbalanced.
2. The 10% damage bonus my Commando gets is very noticeable when compared to using the same weapon with a logi or assault.
Why not make it 2% or 3% per level and evaluate the impact of the change rather than using a number that is glaringly too big and that will require lowering within one week of the release?
S'fair assessment, really. On the one hand the Gallente Assault needs to be the CQC king as far as the Assault line is concerned and it is an interesting way to bring the AR back into viability without directly changing the weapon itself. Based on the stats of Gallente Assault suits with ARRs maybe now we'll finally see them using racial weaponry in their intended environment while the Caldari Assault has much better long-range damage application with the kick reduction.
I am a bit concerned that 25% is too much but it largely depends on context and circumstance because it is easier to hit a target at longer ranges than it is to hit them at close range where target tracking and mobility matter more. On paper, it seems extreme, but in reality there may be a hefty amount of rounds that miss. Applied DPS =/= Paper DPS, after all. However, it is definitely something I want to keep an eye on because there are a lot of areas where CQC is the preferred method.
This also, mind you, infringes very heavily on the HMG Sentinel and I'm concerned that the AR+Gal Assault combo might overshadow it. We'll see what happens there but it is also something I'll be monitoring, personally.
But, yanno, if we have to lower it we have to lower it. No big deal. Guaranteed that I'll be biting someone's heels if it becomes a problem and isn't addressed quickly (I'm looking at you, Uprising 1.7 HAVs)
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
|
Jakkal Shoobah
Eastern Star Recon Group
237
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:45:00 -
[185] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:At 150m lockon, it is functionally impossible to kill a dropship that isn't AFK.
Its easy to watch ANy pilot die to two well Cooardinated Av attacks. You shouldn't expect to rek the ds as fast as infantry just because you have a missle launcher on your suit. Its quite ridiculous really.
If the pilot ever makes a mistake you can punish him for it. If he evades you by breaking Los , using building cover, and his speed and flight to his advantage then yeah he should be able to do that.
While slow to anger and occasionally indecisive, they are also capable of harnessing enormous resolve when truly tested.
|
Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
432
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:46:00 -
[186] - Quote
Moochie Cricket wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:So in nerfing swarm range YET AGAIN, when it badly needed a buff to be able to hit... anything even remotely airborne.... swarms can now only be used against dropships that are parked. Which you are standing next to? GTFO
No...Xel has a point. 150m is just over max-rifle engagement range...it is actually very close (similar ranges to what you can use a laser rifle at). I don't think that the range should have been increased, but I also don't think it needed to be decreased any further (unless invisible swarms returned as an issue).
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
|
Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:46:00 -
[187] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:I have no idea how he of all people got on CPM 1.
Why do you +1 all of my posts and then insult me in your posts?
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
|
Aeon Amadi
12
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:47:00 -
[188] - Quote
Bremen van Equis wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Let me propose a far better swarm fix, Rattati.
- Increase the lockon range to 225-250m.
- Reduce the tracking range to more like 250m-275m.
This is both a quality of life improvement for:
- Swarmers can now actually fire at dropships again, without having to try to position themselves directly under the target.
- Dropships have a much more reasonable chance of escaping shots they are actively trying to avoid.
You still get the turning radius nerf, which is fine, but we need some operational range we just don't have to make swarms viable. Forge still maintains far superior damage, range, and accuracy. Remember, dear Soraya, with your sweet sculptural logics and werds, that the swarmer is effectively invisible (not rendering) to the DS pilot outside of the new lockon range. Now pilots will be able to see you with your buffed shields on your buffed swarm-dmg calmando around the same time they can actually engage you. Wutz the problem?
Looking forward to seeing what sort of interesting fits come out of the Cal Mando =)
Do they add damage mods for swarm/sniper capability?
Do they add shield rechargers for hit-and-run capability?
Do they add extenders for better tanking relying on the newly buffed stats?
SO EXCITING :D
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
|
Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:48:00 -
[189] - Quote
Jakkal Shoobah wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:At 150m lockon, it is functionally impossible to kill a dropship that isn't AFK. Its easy to watch ANy pilot die to two well Cooardinated Av attacks. You shouldn't expect to rek the ds as fast as infantry just because you have a missle launcher on your suit. Its quite ridiculous really. If the pilot ever makes a mistake you can punish him for it. If he evades you by breaking Los , using building cover, and his speed and flight to his advantage then yeah he should be able to do that.
This is dropship pilot nonsense. I know dropship pilots are used to being OP, but one class cannot be just "inherently better" than every other. In addition to a dropship's ability to fly, traverse the map in seconds, and also require multiple people "coordinating" to kill you, you're immune to most of the weapons in the game.
I'm not even trying to fix how fundamentally broken dropships are as a thing, I just want a weapon that was designed pretty much entirely to kill dropships, to actually be able to hit them.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
433
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:48:00 -
[190] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Bremen van Equis wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Let me propose a far better swarm fix, Rattati.
- Increase the lockon range to 225-250m.
- Reduce the tracking range to more like 250m-275m.
This is both a quality of life improvement for:
- Swarmers can now actually fire at dropships again, without having to try to position themselves directly under the target.
- Dropships have a much more reasonable chance of escaping shots they are actively trying to avoid.
You still get the turning radius nerf, which is fine, but we need some operational range we just don't have to make swarms viable. Forge still maintains far superior damage, range, and accuracy. Remember, dear Soraya, with your sweet sculptural logics and werds, that the swarmer is effectively invisible (not rendering) to the DS pilot outside of the new lockon range. Now pilots will be able to see you with your buffed shields on your buffed swarm-dmg calmando around the same time they can actually engage you. Wutz the problem? Looking forward to seeing what sort of interesting fits come out of the Cal Mando =) Do they add damage mods for swarm/sniper capability? Do they add shield rechargers for hit-and-run capability? Do they add extenders for better tanking relying on the newly buffed stats? SO EXCITING :D
Myos for mobility, positioning, and power-fist is probably what I'll run
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
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Regnier Feros
Pielords
757
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:51:00 -
[191] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Bremen van Equis wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Let me propose a far better swarm fix, Rattati.
- Increase the lockon range to 225-250m.
- Reduce the tracking range to more like 250m-275m.
This is both a quality of life improvement for:
- Swarmers can now actually fire at dropships again, without having to try to position themselves directly under the target.
- Dropships have a much more reasonable chance of escaping shots they are actively trying to avoid.
You still get the turning radius nerf, which is fine, but we need some operational range we just don't have to make swarms viable. Forge still maintains far superior damage, range, and accuracy. Remember, dear Soraya, with your sweet sculptural logics and werds, that the swarmer is effectively invisible (not rendering) to the DS pilot outside of the new lockon range. Now pilots will be able to see you with your buffed shields on your buffed swarm-dmg calmando around the same time they can actually engage you. Wutz the problem? Looking forward to seeing what sort of interesting fits come out of the Cal Mando =) Do they add damage mods for swarm/sniper capability? Do they add shield rechargers for hit-and-run capability? Do they add extenders for better tanking relying on the newly buffed stats? SO EXCITING :D
What about the av laser.......
LongLiveQueenZarZar
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Jakkal Shoobah
Eastern Star Recon Group
239
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 19:57:00 -
[192] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Jakkal Shoobah wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:At 150m lockon, it is functionally impossible to kill a dropship that isn't AFK. Its easy to watch ANy pilot die to two well Cooardinated Av attacks. You shouldn't expect to rek the ds as fast as infantry just because you have a missle launcher on your suit. Its quite ridiculous really. If the pilot ever makes a mistake you can punish him for it. If he evades you by breaking Los , using building cover, and his speed and flight to his advantage then yeah he should be able to do that. This is dropship pilot nonsense. I know dropship pilots are used to being OP, but one class cannot be just "inherently better" than every other. In addition to a dropship's ability to fly, traverse the map in seconds, and also require multiple people "coordinating" to kill you, you're immune to most of the weapons in the game. I'm not even trying to fix how fundamentally broken dropships are as a thing, I just want a weapon that was designed pretty much entirely to kill dropships, to actually be able to hit them.
Its not impossible to kill a ds solo. I like infantry but I've tested out vehicles. You can't say swarms are completely ineffective at their only role.
I'm not saying ds should be god mode. It doesn't take more than one person to kill one It only becomes easier with multiple. Same thing applies to infantry . Why don't you like the changes to turn radius ? The range Nerf I understand , but irs only 25 meters that's nothing.
Why do you want your swarms to lock onto any vehicle you can see?
While slow to anger and occasionally indecisive, they are also capable of harnessing enormous resolve when truly tested.
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:00:00 -
[193] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Jakkal Shoobah wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:At 150m lockon, it is functionally impossible to kill a dropship that isn't AFK. Its easy to watch ANy pilot die to two well Cooardinated Av attacks. You shouldn't expect to rek the ds as fast as infantry just because you have a missle launcher on your suit. Its quite ridiculous really. If the pilot ever makes a mistake you can punish him for it. If he evades you by breaking Los , using building cover, and his speed and flight to his advantage then yeah he should be able to do that. This is dropship pilot nonsense. I know dropship pilots are used to being OP, but one class cannot be just "inherently better" than every other. In addition to a dropship's ability to fly, traverse the map in seconds, and also require multiple people "coordinating" to kill you, you're immune to most of the weapons in the game. I'm not even trying to fix how fundamentally broken dropships are as a thing, I just want a weapon that was designed pretty much entirely to kill dropships, to actually be able to hit them.
Yeah because it's definetely fair for us to lose a dropship that costs 500k (including your suit) to a suit that costs 5 times less than that.
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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Jakkal Shoobah
Eastern Star Recon Group
240
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:04:00 -
[194] - Quote
Its totally fair to lose it to one guy if you let him . In fact its stupid to lose it to one guy. I get mad at myself for being stupid enough to do so
While slow to anger and occasionally indecisive, they are also capable of harnessing enormous resolve when truly tested.
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:09:00 -
[195] - Quote
Am I the only guy with popcorn up in this crib? Pilots, assemble for a picnic!!
99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg
Oh yeah?! Well, I love redheads.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 20:11:00 -
[196] - Quote
Jakkal Shoobah wrote:Why don't you like the changes to turn radius ? The range Nerf I understand , but irs only 25 meters that's nothing.
Why do you want your swarms to lock onto any vehicle you can see?
I am fine with the turn radius changes.
I need to be able to lock on and hit dropships that are attacking my team. And I probably should at least be partially as capable of doing so as a forge gunner, which has a 300m effective range. (And much higher damage to boot.)
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:11:00 -
[197] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote:Am I the only guy with popcorn up in this crib? Pilots, assemble for a picnic!!
Nahh, I got my chocalate covered pretzels next to me (no joke) so I'm good 
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 20:12:00 -
[198] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Yeah because it's definetely fair for us to lose a dropship that costs 500k (including your suit) to a suit that costs 5 times less than that.
A swarm user will lose at least five dropsuits trying to kill your one dropship once. And STILL FAIL TO KILL YOU.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:13:00 -
[199] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Jakkal Shoobah wrote:Why don't you like the changes to turn radius ? The range Nerf I understand , but irs only 25 meters that's nothing.
Why do you want your swarms to lock onto any vehicle you can see? I am fine with the turn radius changes. I need to be able to lock on and hit dropships that are attacking my team. And I probably should at least be partially as capable of doing so as a forge gunner, which has a 300m effective range. (And much higher damage to boot.)
So basically you're saying that on certain maps 1 guy will be able to lock down an entire half of the map with a weapon from dropships? Combined with two people you got yourself an OP weapon. That's right, I said OP, because it is. Forge gun takes skill to use, swarm launcher, just look and shoot.
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:13:00 -
[200] - Quote
The Assault changes, are they replacing the old bonus, or are they in addition to the current ones?
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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Bradric Banewolf
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:14:00 -
[201] - Quote
Rattati! The loyalist in the federation never doubted you.... well... Maybe a little bit, but you are true to the federation lol!
I will make these new additions work in favor of gallente glory!
"Anybody order chaos?"
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:14:00 -
[202] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Yeah because it's definetely fair for us to lose a dropship that costs 500k (including your suit) to a suit that costs 5 times less than that. A swarm user will lose at least five dropsuits trying to kill your one dropship once. And STILL FAIL TO KILL YOU.
I can say that most times engaging a swarm launcher for more than 2 seconds is a death sentence. So you should change your sentence.
"I will make you run away all five attempts at trying to kill you. And still make you lose 500k isk."
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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Vulpes Dolosus
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:15:00 -
[203] - Quote
If Soraya disapproves of the AV changes, then I firmly approve.
Edit: I will be honest though, kind of screwing over the Minmando players. I don't see how switching the bonuses on suits changes anything, other than lore. But by that reasoning Cal scouts should get the NK bonus, which will make everyone pissed off.
Dust is there! I was real!
Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:15:00 -
[204] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:The Assault changes, are they replacing the old bonus, or are they in addition to the current ones?
If I read it correctly, it will be added onto the bonus. Also, Soraya is going on a rant, and I'm going to watch. I brought popcorn, and Blaziken has chocolate pretzels. You want in?
99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg
Oh yeah?! Well, I love redheads.
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:15:00 -
[205] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:The Assault changes, are they replacing the old bonus, or are they in addition to the current ones?
In addition, that question was already answered.
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:19:00 -
[206] - Quote
Rattati, you really need to reconsider the changes to grenades. Instead, look at normalizing splash radius, and then having damage increase slightly through the tiers. My numbers are as follows.
Base locus nades: All have 6m range
STD: 400 damage
ADV: 450 damage
PRO: 500 damage
Sleek locus grenades: All have 9m range
STD: 300
ADV: 350
PRO: 400
Packed locus grendes: All have 3m range
STD: 500
ADV: 550
PRO: 600
This is a logical progression, a nerf to Core nades, a buff to STD/ADV nades, and brings all grenade types to all tiers with a logical progression.
God, I can hear the complaints of grenade spam now if you put your current changes through. Please look at my numbers and reconsider.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:20:00 -
[207] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:The Assault changes, are they replacing the old bonus, or are they in addition to the current ones? If I read it correctly, it will be added onto the bonus. Also, Soraya is going on a rant, and I'm going to watch. I brought popcorn, and Blaziken has chocolate pretzels. You want in?
Why yes, yes I do want in.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:21:00 -
[208] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:The Assault changes, are they replacing the old bonus, or are they in addition to the current ones? If I read it correctly, it will be added onto the bonus. Also, Soraya is going on a rant, and I'm going to watch. I brought popcorn, and Blaziken has chocolate pretzels. You want in?
Finally someone who spells my name right!
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 20:22:00 -
[209] - Quote
Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:
Forge gun:
+ Longest ranged AV option
+ Has multiple useful variants
+ Highest alpha damage of all AV
+ Strong against infantry - there's a reason it's been used as a sniper replacement in the past (and been nerfed for it)
+ Most accurate AV option - can reliably hit weakpoints
+ Fastest projectile of all AV
- Charge time
- Lowered mobility whilst charging
- Has to be on a heavy suit (? Does this count as a real combat drawback?)
Swarm launcher:
+ Tracking
+ Doesn't need to be used on a heavy suit
- Short range
- Travel time
- Completely unable to defend against infantry, rendering a sidearm mandatory
- Unreliable on ground targets (e.g. frequently running into walls)
- Lock-on time (less than forge gun's charge up time though)
- Cannot be pre-charged (unlike the forge gun)
There're probably a couple of points you can scrounge elsewhere, but I don't really think that lineup favours the swarms.
The one thing that has always bugged me about the FG is that range. It's a railgun on a heavy suit that has full up and down directional aiming and able to position itself in far more advantageous positions over a tank it's intended to fight. I would personally like to see the FG get knocked down a peg or two on range. Maybe trade out for more damage but less range. Breakin, where you at fool. At the same time though, the forge gun has lower magazine, ammo carried, and a slower refire rate than the big railgun turret. Additionally, the platforms the forge gun is deployed on are far more susceptible to small-arms fire than the HAVs/emplacements the Railgun turrets go on. My only problem with the forge gun is how effective it is at sniping...making it effectively a better sniper rifle than the sniper rifle, but this is more an issue with the sniper rifles than with the forge gun itself
Positioning is everything. Being able to position yourself on a key tower limits your risk and maximizes gains. A FG on a tower can effectively deny a HUGE area around said tower. Like say the mushroom on the research lab or cargo hub tower or rings. On the cargo hub, they can nearly reach both home points, and can be incredibly difficult to dislodge.
Would a shortened range of say 200M really destroy their role? If anything it gives the ADS or DS more breathing room to operate and dislodge them, and allows a tank to at least operate in areas around them without being insta ganked the moment they move any where near them.
For all their "faults", the FG stands above tanks and any other form of AV as the ultimate AV weapon in my book. They are one of the most crucial parts to a PC battle. Tanks are just there to supplement the FG. A little less range won't have a damning affect on their operation. |
DiablosMajora
302
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:24:00 -
[210] - Quote
New Melee-AV Dropsuit concept art.
Prepare your angus
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Vulpes Dolosus
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:31:00 -
[211] - Quote
Locus grenade damage needs to be regulated around old ADV damage, not proto. The problem with Cores wasn't the splash, it was the damage. M8s do respectable damage (last I used them) and I'm worrying that this will just lead to more grenade spam.
Dust is there! I was real!
Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
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shanatak
Prima Gallicus
22
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:32:00 -
[212] - Quote
So maybe ads will have some loves?
Many thanks CCP,really many thanks
Happy to see you take care of all players
Great idea about small blaster turrets and buff pg on the python.
I believe i can fly |
jerrmy12 kahoalii
G0DS AM0NG MEN
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:32:00 -
[213] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:The Assault changes, are they replacing the old bonus, or are they in addition to the current ones? If I read it correctly, it will be added onto the bonus. Also, Soraya is going on a rant, and I'm going to watch. I brought popcorn, and Blaziken has chocolate pretzels. You want in?
i brought the candy
now who has the partyvan?
Closed beta vet.
Lurk mode is engaged.
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Axel Giatsu
Fallen Angels Syndicate
RUST415
39
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:33:00 -
[214] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Locus grenade damage needs to be regulated around old ADV damage, not proto. The problem with Cores wasn't the splash, it was the damage. M8s do respectable damage (last I used them) and I'm worrying that this will just lead to more grenade spam.
The only true way to stop grenade spam is to either have no grenades or restrict the tryhards from having too many nanohives
Recruiter for FAS
Recruitment Post!!!!!!
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Kalante Schiffer
Ancient Exiles.
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:33:00 -
[215] - Quote
im interested in that magsec and caldari buff. The range nerfed seemed unnecessary tho. I would had leaved the weapons as is too see how it played out with the ar buff. but oh well.
K+öL.2013.ae.SEP. Slayer of baby snakes.
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Aeon Amadi
12
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:34:00 -
[216] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Locus grenade damage needs to be regulated around old ADV damage, not proto. The problem with Cores wasn't the splash, it was the damage. M8s do respectable damage (last I used them) and I'm worrying that this will just lead to more grenade spam.
Another thing that will be monitored closely, rest assured. If not by anyone else but by me
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Aeon Amadi
12
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:35:00 -
[217] - Quote
Kalante Schiffer wrote:im interested in that magsec and caldari buff. The range nerfed seemed unnecessary tho. I would had leaved the weapons as is too see how it played out with the ar buff. but oh well.
Assault variants had their range nerfed to more closely relate to their bullet-hose nature. Lot of Gallente Assauls ran ARR because of the DPS being very close to the AR's despite it having something like 30m longer optimal range.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
|
Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
768
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:39:00 -
[218] - Quote
I'll see that and raise you and pair of those claws
Purifier. First Class.
|
Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
9
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:41:00 -
[219] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:Francois Sanchez wrote:A few things worry me :
The gal RoF bonus seems too good, and keep in mind it will buff variants such as the breach and the tactical that don't need a buff. It will also buff shotguns. We've had assurances from Rattati that the bonus will apply to AR's only. We were obviously concerned about the Bons becoming a machine shotgun gun. Also bare in mind that AR's will now be eating up ammo like candy so the clips will drain much faster.
Ammo reserve buff, pl0x?
Scouts United
Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
435
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:42:00 -
[220] - Quote
Carcharodons! Tyberos will mess you up
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:42:00 -
[221] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:So basically you're saying that on certain maps 1 guy will be able to lock down an entire half of the map with a weapon from dropships? Combined with two people you got yourself an OP weapon. That's right, I said OP, because it is. Forge gun takes skill to use, swarm launcher, just look and shoot.
That's complete nonsense. If anything, aiming swarms requires a lot more skill, as you have to figure out how to get them to arc around buildings to even have a chance at hitting a target. They're way too slow to be effective much of the time. There's tricks like firing to the side, or even behind you, to try and screw with their turning arc to your advantage, but realistically, much of the time your swarms are just going to hit a tower.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:44:00 -
[222] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:So basically you're saying that on certain maps 1 guy will be able to lock down an entire half of the map with a weapon from dropships? Combined with two people you got yourself an OP weapon. That's right, I said OP, because it is. Forge gun takes skill to use, swarm launcher, just look and shoot. That's complete nonsense. If anything, aiming swarms requires a lot more skill, as you have to figure out how to get them to arc around buildings to even have a chance at hitting a target. They're way too slow to be effective much of the time. There's tricks like firing to the side, or even behind you, to try and screw with their turning arc to your advantage, but realistically, much of the time your swarms are just going to hit a tower.
If you think aiming a swarm launcher is harder than aiming a Forge gun gtfo mofo
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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Darth-Carbonite GIO
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:44:00 -
[223] - Quote
lol
We're about to find out, aren't we?
"Sex is OK!" -CCP Rouge, Executive Producer of Dust and our benevolent overlord.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:45:00 -
[224] - Quote
Point and shoot is easy, man. Forges are basically AV sniper rifles.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
|
Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
768
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:45:00 -
[225] - Quote
Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:Carcharodons! Tyberos will mess you up
Part Lightning Claw, part Chainfist, all deadly.
Purifier. First Class.
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deadpool lifetone
D3ATH CARD
RUST415
74
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 20:50:00 -
[226] - Quote
"What you do now?" lol so finally the amarr getting a considerable modest nerf . All standard BPO's tradable . All assault rifllol getting also a slight nerf . min Mando loses swarm bonus / caldari gains swarm bonus . all suits shield buff ( scouts about time ) . ( Nades WTF ) enjoy the spam of militia 600hp DMG Nades . lol let's see whas up .
( F U!!!! ) * ( Why Dead? )
,
(n+Æn+Çn+¢´)GÇón++pâçGòÉS+ÇX - - - - n++(º Gûí º l|l)/
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Aeon Amadi
12
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 21:04:00 -
[227] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Point and shoot is easy, man. Forges are basically AV sniper rifles.
Fun fact: I killed an LAV with a Roden Sniper Rifle, once.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
18
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 21:08:00 -
[228] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Plasma Cannon doesn't get the weakpoint modifier that the Forge Gun gets?
Ratatouille plz Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon.
Well, there are gradients.
Would be nice if the Plasma Cannon launched something that makes the laughable projectile speed be worth it.
Ripley Riley:
> Post Hotfix Foxour Gallente Assault:
> DakkadakkadakkadakkaFREEDOMdakkadakka
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Darth-Carbonite GIO
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 21:11:00 -
[229] - Quote
Soraya, when the hotfix goes live, grab your mouse and keyboard and get on Dust. After playing that way, try a controller.
Once you've experienced the changes using both control setups, then come back and form an argument based on experience rather than hypotheses.
Both Rattati and the CPM have already done the hypothesizing. Now it's time to evaluate the changes in a live environment, and work from there.
"Sex is OK!" -CCP Rouge, Executive Producer of Dust and our benevolent overlord.
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 21:17:00 -
[230] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Let's be clear, nobody's "forgetting" anything. Dropship pilots are conveniently leaving out realities that help ensure they're OP, but that's not any different than usual.
You need a 250m range in order to be able to engage at 150m. Because if a swarm launcher is engaging at maximum range, then the dropship pilot can fly out of lock range too quickly to fire enough swarms to even do significant damage.
I need 250m range so that I know when I fire at 150m, I might be able to get a couple shots off before dropships buzz out of range.
Now, if you're worried about redlining, and need to keep the range short: We can just half the speed of dropships instead. But I think the range is a much better solution.
You want
- 250m lock range
- 275m swarm travel distance
- Dropship speed reduced by 50% from 50 m/s to 25 m/s
- Swarm turn radius reduced
The reasons you give:
- Current 175m lock range is not enogh to hit dropships.
- You want the ability to shoot 250m but only so you can shoot at 150m
- You die in your AV suit
- Swarms are inaccurate
- Swarms are slower than dropships
- You have to be very close to a dropship to engage
Refutation:
- Current range is very sufficient to hit dropships. Otherwise nobody would touch swarms, and Rattati would be asking why they are unpopular and buff them accordingly. He's done that with rifles, and pretty much any unpopular item. Why would he reverse course on this?
- You want to shoot at 150 m, you can. Saying that 150m is not enough to shoot dropships but you want to shoot at 150m is a contradiction.
- You want to reduce swarm range, which makes it far easier for dropships to escape.
- So what if you die in your AV suit? You ignore the infantry around you at your own peril. To mitigate that risk, these are commando bonuses and not assault bonues is becausse commandos have a light weapon as backup and the HP of a heavy suit.
- Swarms can do things no forge gunner can dream of. Its slightly obvious, that an A.I. tracking missile is more accurate than a projectile but here is a video curtesy of Juno Tristan.
- You are also fine with a dropship out manuevering swarms. Which, if you claim that swarms currently cannot hit dropships, but you think its fine for swarms to miss dropships is another contradiction.
- In the current build Swarms are 10m/s faster than drophips. 60 m/s vs a dropship's 50 m/s. Nothing more to say here, its a fact, not an opinion. According to you swarms should be 35 m/s fater would render every thing about being able to counter swarms useless.
All this comes out in a hissy fit over 25 m range.
*sigh.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Kalante Schiffer
Ancient Exiles.
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 21:17:00 -
[231] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Kalante Schiffer wrote:im interested in that magsec and caldari buff. The range nerfed seemed unnecessary tho. I would had leaved the weapons as is too see how it played out with the ar buff. but oh well. Assault variants had their range nerfed to more closely relate to their bullet-hose nature. Lot of Gallente Assauls ran ARR because of the DPS being very close to the AR's despite it having something like 30m longer optimal range. What made the ARR on a gall so much better than having it on a caldari suit is due to the fact that you can put damage mods. You had a weapon that could chew a heavy from over 50 meters a way. The duvolle assault rifle was nowhere near as good as the ARR at shooting armor. There was no point in even running the weapons with their respective races. Now with this RoF buff on the assault rifle it might be possible to break away from that.
The kick bonus on the caldari seems more of helping hand for people that do not know how to control recoil but whatever. I would of liked it better if it was a recharge reduction bonus and keep the recoil as it's counter nerf just like the RoF has it's own counter nerf with ammo being depleted faster and what not.
K+öL.2013.ae.SEP. Slayer of baby snakes.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 21:22:00 -
[232] - Quote
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:
Both Rattati and the CPM have already done the hypothesizing. And then asked for feedback, and are now getting it. Now it's time to evaluate the changes in a live environment, and work from there.
Fixed that for you.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 21:24:00 -
[233] - Quote
Tesfa, your entire "refutation" post seems to indicate you didn't read, or couldn't understand, anything that I said. At all. :/ It horrifically misrepresents what I said. Please don't do that.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Joel II X
Bacon with a bottle of Quafe
9
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Posted - 2015.09.24 21:24:00 -
[234] - Quote
Will the Gallente Assault bonus affect Ion Pistols?
New ScPs will have around 20 less RoF for 20 more damage per shot. Won't this be stepping in the Ion's Assault Pistol territory?
Scouts United
Gk.0s & Quafes all day.
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Ama Zarek
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
12
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Posted - 2015.09.24 21:27:00 -
[235] - Quote
Simply increasing the weak spot - Awesome! PLC skill and forge skill will be a better reward.
Secondly, new damage profile for Explosive sounds great - remind yourselves that this could be used to push players around when playing with the shockwave, minor damage, just disorienting.
Thirdly, changing all Explosive Weapons - All super.
All this extra damage potential towards HAVs is met with a strong buff for Caldari HAVs in the form of increased recharge rates and decreased recharge delays. - Great - You need to supply Shield Repair Tools as well - The armor and shields should both be able to be repaird!
Finally, reducing the Swarm Launcher lock-on range, hit impact and turning radius should improve the quality of life of Dropship users, and somewhat for HAVs.
This is totally WRONG. The lock on range is way to underpowered as it is. (Rail installations still pick me off with ease (as they should)).
Turning radius around buildings should be increased so they do not hit buildings, and give the pilot extra time. Only a minor turning increase would be ok but the fuel of the missiles should be increased. The pilot should be able to make two turns around buildings, not just one as it is today though. A missile is extremely dumb in EVE and it kills the feeling of a futuristic game.
Rifles
The range discrepancy has made it very difficult to align the purpose and behavior of the fully-automatic rifles. They will therefore all be brought considerably closer to each other, with the Gallente Assault Rifle unchanged. - No, its good as it is.
Scrambler Rifle capability to hold a charge and follow up with multiple accurate hip fire shots is too strong. We are increasing the heat cost of the charge, and thereby reducing the number of follow up shots. The difference should be around 4 shots for a fully skilled Amarr Assault, more for non-skilled users. The movement speed while holding the charge is also reduced by 20%, similar to the Forge Gun. No, its good as it is. With all the skill points and officer weapons I think this weapon is just in line. I rather think its the shield vs armor bonuses that are not in play correctly. (and that a shield repair tool is missing.)
The Assault Scrambler Rifle is also a little too strong, especially against shields, and we will just increase the heat a little to bring the damage output down to where the other rifles are on the curve. No. I rather think its the shield vs armor bonuses that are not in play correctly. (and that a shield repair tool is missing.)
The Gallente Assault Rifle family is fairly underpowered to the rest of them, not statistically per se, but due to other Assault Dropsuits having better Skill bonuses. ThatGÇÖs why we are introducing a very strong bonus into the form of a ROF bonus for Gallente Assault Dropsuits. Players have been clamoring for a better Caldari bonus as well, and that is being added as a Kick/Recoil reduction for Rail Rifles. - Sounds good!
Other Weapons
Breach Shotguns get a Clip and Ammo Buff, as do Burst Scrambler Pistols. Bolt Pistol ROF is reduced but Assault SMGs, Assault Scramblers and Scrambler Pistols get a ROF buff. MagSec gets a healthy damage buff and a charge time reduction. Small Blaster given a robust Splash radius buff to help with Anti Infantry work, especially from the skies, but also from HAVs/LAVs. OK.
Locus Grenade damage progression made Standard and Advanced grenades fairly useless, so we are going to have the same damage for all tiears, with increasing radius per tier. We are also fixing the Packed Locus and buffing the Fused Grenades considerably. I do not exactly understand. Nope.
Modules
We wanted to improve the Biotics family so are reducing the PG cost of the KinCats, buffing the Cardiac Regulator. We normalized the Myofib damage bonus but increased base Melee damage on all dropsuits to make up for it. Cardiac Regulator is useless today, it should include another bonus as well. |
XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 21:28:00 -
[236] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Tesfa, your entire "refutation" post seems to indicate you didn't read, or couldn't understand, anything that I said. At all. :/ It horrifically misrepresents what I said. Please don't do that.
Tell us what he misrepresents? I'd really like to know
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 21:29:00 -
[237] - Quote
Gentlemen, I'm going to go ahead and give you a forewarning. I'd give up on arguing with Soraya.
Arguing with him is worse than picking a fight with a brick wall. You're not getting anything through his head, and you'll only end up wasting your time explaining anything, because he doesn't listen.
I'm not trying to insult anyone, I'm just trying to save your gents some time to do more productive things.
99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg
Oh yeah?! Well, I love redheads.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
27
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Posted - 2015.09.24 21:30:00 -
[238] - Quote
Jakkal Shoobah wrote:
Its easy to watch ANy pilot die to two well Cooardinated Av attacks. You shouldn't expect to rek the ds as fast as infantry just because you have a missle launcher on your suit. Its quite ridiculous really.
Why the devil not?
Does being a vehicle user somehow make an individual player somehow more of a person than an infantry player?
'As fast as' an infantry player, sure, that's over the top. But requiring two co-ordinated players to kill one individual is fundamentally unbalanced.
Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
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Balistyc Farshot
MONSTER SYNERGY
401
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 21:31:00 -
[239] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Point and shoot is easy, man. Forges are basically AV sniper rifles.
Sorry, I had my mouth full of sour patch kids.
Yeah, you sir have never used a Forge Gun for 5h1t!
Leave FGs out of this conversation. Sentinels are the most abused suit out there! So leave those who use them alone.
Being slow, scanned, and unable to do more than crawl while the FG is charged makes killing things with it a huge pain. If you still see forge snipers, they are trolling. It is so much harder than it used to be with accurate RRs, SCRs, and officer snipers in the hands of the elite snipers (I respect those guys because I hate them.) Next time one gets you, just send him some tasty tears in an email because he earned them.
Also Sentinels have bonuses that don't do squat for the new mobility rules playstyle.
Now back to swarms. It lost 25m. That didn't really need to happen, but whatever, it will be changed back eventually. I remember Break-in being accused of wanting to have swarms filled with q-tips to wax his tank while he mowed over the infantry, so I don't understand people thinking that he will save them.
Swarms can be slapped onto a scout suit with kins and sprint to maintain lock-on. Cal mandos with swarms will be interesting. Will they put on myos and fire from vantage points?
Lets see how things go. Just plan a change or adjustment in 3 months tuning in these changes.
"Dying with your rep tool out - the logi-flasher!"
Who hasn't been caught by a cute little female scout doing this?
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STYLIE77
KILL-EM-QUICK
Rise Of Legion.
698
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 21:35:00 -
[240] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:So in nerfing swarm range YET AGAIN, when it badly needed a buff to be able to hit... anything even remotely airborne.... swarms can now only be used against dropships that are parked. Which you are standing next to?
LOL at 150 lock range, I guess I have to use BEACONS anytime I see a damned drop ship.
Otherwise you are stuck using prof 5 forge to take them down.
I am just glad that half of the great Pilots don't play anymore...
Meh... I have the forge, calmando, minmando and swarms all covered.
150 meters... lmfao... might as well have made them unable to lock onto Dropships entirely... 
http://caughtyouflinching.ytmnd.com/
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 21:38:00 -
[241] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Tesfa, your entire "refutation" post seems to indicate you didn't read, or couldn't understand, anything that I said. At all. :/ It horrifically misrepresents what I said. Please don't do that. Tell us what he misrepresents? I'd really like to know
I never actually indicated I wanted dropship speed cut in half. The issue, is basically, that dropships cannot be made to so effortlessly run away from the threat of swarms. At best, range of swarms needs to be suitable for it to require active attempt at evasion to survive, whereas with even the current pitiful range, dropship pilots need to merely hit the thrust slightly to be easily protected from any threat. I also stated I was okay with making swarms turn more poorly, not the other way around. I certainly wasn't asking for the whole list he acts like I propose.
Furthermore, his supposed attempts to claim "contradictions" is simple: I'm looking for actual balance, not pitching just a nerf or a buff. But actual gameplay. That does involve some give and take. The 400m tracking range thing is a huge pain point for dropships, and I agree, we can help dropship pilots out there, but we need some lock range to make swarms viable.
Tesfa completely was unable to comprehend why we need MORE than 150m lock range to engage at 150m. Hint: Because we can't fire at 151m.
Derrith Erador wrote:Gentlemen, I'm going to go ahead and give you a forewarning. I'd give up on arguing with Soraya.
Arguing with him is worse than picking a fight with a brick wall. You're not getting anything through his head, and you'll only end up wasting your time explaining anything, because he doesn't listen.
This could easily be said about yourself. Derrith, you've never found a single dropship nerf you didn't whine about. Your opinion on dropships has the same weight and value of Judge's, which were useless.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Jadek Menaheim
Positive-Feedback.
7
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 21:40:00 -
[242] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:Zaria Min Deir wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:Correction: It's listed as melee in the excel doc...Rattati? Do you mean I can punch a tank now? I sure hope so, purely for the hilarity that will ensue. Is that why Commando Melee damage is being brought down substantially (from 1230hp to 750-ish)? If you managed your stamina properly for an engagement (and holding a sidearm or equipment) you could hit two times per second = 2460hp DPS. Which I could see adding up quickly against tanks if you managed to stand on top of it (which would prevent your death upon explosion). I may have screwed up the commando melee damage. Can you remind me what the base was.
Melee damage base on the commando was 240.
You can also see the dps vs. fitting cost comparison of knives and melee damage; I wrote up a comparison here,
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 21:41:00 -
[243] - Quote
Balistyc Farshot wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Point and shoot is easy, man. Forges are basically AV sniper rifles. Sorry, I had my mouth full of sour patch kids. Yeah, you sir have never used a Forge Gun for 5h1t! [/quote]
Forge guns are probably the weapon I'm most adept at. And since the original swarm lock range nerf, it's the only weapon with which I've reliably killed dropships.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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RedPencil
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
207
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Posted - 2015.09.24 21:41:00 -
[244] - Quote
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:lol We're about to find out, aren't we?
I hate u Darth 
Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
18
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Posted - 2015.09.24 21:42:00 -
[245] - Quote
SCR has nothing to do with armor vs shields.
The SCR can deal such absurd amounts of damage in such a short amount of time that even an armor suit melts before you can realistically react.
Shield suits just suffer more, but both get destroyed by it.
Ripley Riley:
> Post Hotfix Foxour Gallente Assault:
> DakkadakkadakkadakkaFREEDOMdakkadakka
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
27
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 21:43:00 -
[246] - Quote
Balistyc Farshot wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Point and shoot is easy, man. Forges are basically AV sniper rifles. Sorry, I had my mouth full of sour patch kids. Yeah, you sir have never used a Forge Gun for 5h1t! Leave FGs out of this conversation. Sentinels are the most abused suit out there! So leave those who use them alone. Being slow, scanned, and unable to do more than crawl while the FG is charged makes killing things with it a huge pain. If you still see forge snipers, they are trolling. It is so much harder than it used to be with accurate RRs, SCRs, and officer snipers in the hands of the elite snipers (I respect those guys because I hate them.) Next time one gets you, just send him some tasty tears in an email because he earned them. Also Sentinels have bonuses that don't do squat for the new mobility rules playstyle.
Your objection begins with "You have obviously never used a forge" but your entire objection to Soraya's statement is based around the disadvantages of the sentinel suit in general and not the forge gun. While I appreciate that yes, those are relevant to forge gun usage, using a forge gun is literally point and shoot. As a weapon, they are very easy to use. You don't have to worry about arc, travel time is negligible, and if you have a clear line to the target you don't need to worry about other obstacles that, say, swarms might get caught on.
I appreciate that there are difficulties associated with the other parts of using the weapon, but when it comes down to it the shooting operation is charge, point, shoot. The mobility penalties aren't actually that bad on account of the sorta hilarious jumpglitching you can do to strafe.
But honestly, forge guns aren't actually the focal point of this disagreement. It's just swarms. I don't think anyone is calling for forge guns to be nerfed here, so let's not panic about that. They're more being used as a comparison.
Is the swarm nerf significant? Is it necessary? Are swarms in a place that seems reasonable to both the AV user and the vehicle user at the moment? Will they be after the nerf?
Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
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STYLIE77
KILL-EM-QUICK
Rise Of Legion.
700
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 21:48:00 -
[247] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Jakkal Shoobah wrote:
Its easy to watch ANy pilot die to two well Cooardinated Av attacks. You shouldn't expect to rek the ds as fast as infantry just because you have a missle launcher on your suit. Its quite ridiculous really.
Why the devil not? Does being a vehicle user somehow make an individual player somehow more of a person than an infantry player? 'As fast as' an infantry player, sure, that's over the top. But requiring two co-ordinated players to kill one individual is fundamentally unbalanced.
And in matches with low player counts, just 2 vehicle pilots will pull 4 players off of OBJECTIVE based gameplay. Such a distraction can be enough to win matches.
Glass cannon is the only way to balance vehicles in FPS and one only has to look at any other major triple A online FPS to see that working properly.
When you have a 16 vs 16 game that rarely has full teams on each side, allowing so many vehicle spawns at one time is the main balance breaking component aside from the EHP of the vehicles.
Either that or these pilots need to be locked into the vehicle if their HP drops below a certain point.
That at least would reduce the amount of vehicle spam being used to pad KDR stats to unrealistic Sniper levels...
http://caughtyouflinching.ytmnd.com/
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 21:50:00 -
[248] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Derrith Erador wrote:Gentlemen, I'm going to go ahead and give you a forewarning. I'd give up on arguing with Soraya.
Arguing with him is worse than picking a fight with a brick wall. You're not getting anything through his head, and you'll only end up wasting your time explaining anything, because he doesn't listen. This could easily be said about yourself. Derrith, you've never found a single dropship nerf you didn't whine about. Your opinion on dropships has the same weight and value of Judge's, which were useless.
Oh, I'm so hurt. I guess I'll have to comfort myself from my very own cockpit.
99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg
Oh yeah?! Well, I love redheads.
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 21:50:00 -
[249] - Quote
STYLIE77 wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Jakkal Shoobah wrote:
Its easy to watch ANy pilot die to two well Cooardinated Av attacks. You shouldn't expect to rek the ds as fast as infantry just because you have a missle launcher on your suit. Its quite ridiculous really.
Why the devil not? Does being a vehicle user somehow make an individual player somehow more of a person than an infantry player? 'As fast as' an infantry player, sure, that's over the top. But requiring two co-ordinated players to kill one individual is fundamentally unbalanced. And in matches with low player counts, just 2 vehicle pilots will pull 4 players off of OBJECTIVE based gameplay. Such a distraction can be enough to win matches. Glass cannon is the only way to balance vehicles in FPS and one only has to look at any other major triple A online FPS to see that working properly. When you have a 16 vs 16 game that rarely has full teams on each side, allowing so many vehicle spawns at one time is the main balance breaking component aside from the EHP of the vehicles. Either that or these pilots need to be locked into the vehicle if their HP drops below a certain point. That at least would reduce the amount of vehicle spam being used to pad KDR stats to unrealistic Sniper levels...
I'll agree with you as soon as we make ADSs cost as much as an advanced suit.
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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STYLIE77
KILL-EM-QUICK
Rise Of Legion.
702
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 21:53:00 -
[250] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:STYLIE77 wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Jakkal Shoobah wrote:
Its easy to watch ANy pilot die to two well Cooardinated Av attacks. You shouldn't expect to rek the ds as fast as infantry just because you have a missle launcher on your suit. Its quite ridiculous really.
Why the devil not? Does being a vehicle user somehow make an individual player somehow more of a person than an infantry player? 'As fast as' an infantry player, sure, that's over the top. But requiring two co-ordinated players to kill one individual is fundamentally unbalanced. And in matches with low player counts, just 2 vehicle pilots will pull 4 players off of OBJECTIVE based gameplay. Such a distraction can be enough to win matches. Glass cannon is the only way to balance vehicles in FPS and one only has to look at any other major triple A online FPS to see that working properly. When you have a 16 vs 16 game that rarely has full teams on each side, allowing so many vehicle spawns at one time is the main balance breaking component aside from the EHP of the vehicles. Either that or these pilots need to be locked into the vehicle if their HP drops below a certain point. That at least would reduce the amount of vehicle spam being used to pad KDR stats to unrealistic Sniper levels... I'll agree with you as soon as we make ADSs cost as much as an advanced suit.
Proto Dropship ship cost about 150k more than a fully fit dropsuit IMO.
http://caughtyouflinching.ytmnd.com/
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
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Posted - 2015.09.24 21:54:00 -
[251] - Quote
STYLIE77 wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:STYLIE77 wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Jakkal Shoobah wrote:
Its easy to watch ANy pilot die to two well Cooardinated Av attacks. You shouldn't expect to rek the ds as fast as infantry just because you have a missle launcher on your suit. Its quite ridiculous really.
Why the devil not? Does being a vehicle user somehow make an individual player somehow more of a person than an infantry player? 'As fast as' an infantry player, sure, that's over the top. But requiring two co-ordinated players to kill one individual is fundamentally unbalanced. And in matches with low player counts, just 2 vehicle pilots will pull 4 players off of OBJECTIVE based gameplay. Such a distraction can be enough to win matches. Glass cannon is the only way to balance vehicles in FPS and one only has to look at any other major triple A online FPS to see that working properly. When you have a 16 vs 16 game that rarely has full teams on each side, allowing so many vehicle spawns at one time is the main balance breaking component aside from the EHP of the vehicles. Either that or these pilots need to be locked into the vehicle if their HP drops below a certain point. That at least would reduce the amount of vehicle spam being used to pad KDR stats to unrealistic Sniper levels... I'll agree with you as soon as we make ADSs cost as much as an advanced suit. Proto Dropship ship cost about 150k more than a fully fit dropsuit IMO.
You've obviously never flown an ADS before then.
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 21:56:00 -
[252] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:
I never actually indicated I wanted dropship speed cut in half.
Soraya Xel wrote:
Now, if you're worried about redlining, and need to keep the range short: We can just half the speed of dropships instead. But I think the range is a much better solution.
You can't make this stuff up.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
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Posted - 2015.09.24 21:58:00 -
[253] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:
Breakin, I am disappoint.
i find I can endure this with an enormous level of fortitude.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 21:58:00 -
[254] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:
I never actually indicated I wanted dropship speed cut in half.
Soraya Xel wrote:
Now, if you're worried about redlining, and need to keep the range short: We can just half the speed of dropships instead. But I think the range is a much better solution.
You can't make this stuff up.
I'm going to bake some cinnamon almond sweet rolls for this. Would you care to have some? I can also give you the recipe. Popcorn is just so boring after a while.
99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg
Oh yeah?! Well, I love redheads.
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KILLER 20965
Sprayers and Prayers
56
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 22:02:00 -
[255] - Quote
Aaaand this is why all the good tankers quit playing..
Pc is getting CCP'd...
Yes I run logi, got a problem?
I want an officer armour tank.
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Luther Mandrix
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
RUST415
644
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 22:03:00 -
[256] - Quote
Tradable
ALL Milita BPO ALL Standard BPO.
So we will be able to trade Dren ? |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 22:04:00 -
[257] - Quote
STYLIE77 wrote:Either that or these pilots need to be locked into the vehicle if their HP drops below a certain point.
As a pilot, I am in favour of this and have said so before.
Personally I am not sure that these changes will make V/AV better, but I do hope so. HAV weakspot changes will be interesting for sure. Swarms, will have to wait and see, not sure that these are the fixes that are needed. Hopefully they'll be useful though.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:05:00 -
[258] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:If anything, aiming swarms requires a lot more skill
And now, no one will even consider your opinion, regardless of how well you explain it. Just stop.
The enemies of God stand broken before us. The light of the Reclaiming shines over them!
12/13/14 Never forget
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Daddrobit
You Can Call Me Daddy
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:12:00 -
[259] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Plasma Cannon doesn't get the weakpoint modifier that the Forge Gun gets?
Ratatouille plz Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon.
:( But the PLC is harder to wield imho. FG has a super fast projectile speed and no drop off, so all you have to do is hold a charge until the reticule turns red and 90% of the time, unless the vehicle is running top speed and perpendicular to you at long range, you're going to hit.
PLC however, the only bonus it gets is that you can put it on a Gallente commando for a damage buff, but is considerably harder to use in every single way.
Single shot then reload, slow projectile, projectile has bullet drop...
Even the base ammo capacity of the FG is higher than that of the PLC at its max.
Ah well.
O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
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Toobar Zoobar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
147
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:14:00 -
[260] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Tesfa, your entire "refutation" post seems to indicate you didn't read, or couldn't understand, anything that I said. At all. :/ It horrifically misrepresents what I said. Please don't do that. Tell us what he misrepresents? I'd really like to know I never actually indicated I wanted dropship speed cut in half. The issue, is basically, that dropships cannot be made to so effortlessly run away from the threat of swarms. At best, range of swarms needs to be suitable for it to require active attempt at evasion to survive, whereas with even the current pitiful range, dropship pilots need to merely hit the thrust slightly to be easily protected from any threat. I also stated I was okay with making swarms turn more poorly, not the other way around. I certainly wasn't asking for the whole list he acts like I propose. Furthermore, his supposed attempts to claim "contradictions" is simple: I'm looking for actual balance, not pitching just a nerf or a buff. But actual gameplay. That does involve some give and take. The 400m tracking range thing is a huge pain point for dropships, and I agree, we can help dropship pilots out there, but we need some lock range to make swarms viable. Tesfa completely was unable to comprehend why we need MORE than 150m lock range to engage at 150m. Hint: Because we can't fire at 151m. Derrith Erador wrote:Gentlemen, I'm going to go ahead and give you a forewarning. I'd give up on arguing with Soraya.
Arguing with him is worse than picking a fight with a brick wall. You're not getting anything through his head, and you'll only end up wasting your time explaining anything, because he doesn't listen. This could easily be said about yourself. Derrith, you've never found a single dropship nerf you didn't whine about. Your opinion on dropships has the same weight and value of Judge's, which were useless.
Why don't you just play domination all day? It's pretty clear you just hate vehicle's and don't want to interact with them in any way.
I personally wouldn't mind if the swarms had greater lock on range if such a buff was then balanced with a lock-on warning, increased range and dps for dropships and a HUD indicator that highlighted the guy that was shooting you AND most importantly a reduction in the mag size of the swarm from 3 to 2 as it's currently ridiculous that a base health ADS can't tank one mag of a swarm launcher and in turn is making the high rep incubus's non-viable.
Specialization: Making typo's.
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RedPencil
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
207
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:14:00 -
[261] - Quote
Can we remodel Assault Swarm and make it work like missile turrets?
New Assault Swarm
- Shoot straight line missile
- No tracking and auto lock
- No lock target delay
- Hight speed missile
- 300M Max missile range
- can hit merc
Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
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Mejt0
Made in Poland...
E-R-A
2
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:16:00 -
[262] - Quote
I think that Soraya wants the good 'ol swarms that could literally lock on the entire map.
Past 150m infantry is just a single pixel on most TV/Screens. Add jumps mods to that and you can run around without worries about A/DS.
Ps. I hope that ScR nerf won't make already (almost) better TacAR even greater.
Modern society is lacking in empathy
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Jadek Menaheim
Positive-Feedback.
7
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:17:00 -
[263] - Quote
@RedPencil
^ Are you serious?!
Maybe you weren't around for closed beta hell.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Vulpes Dolosus
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:17:00 -
[264] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Point and shoot is easy, man. Forges are basically AV sniper rifles.
MFW reading this.
Swarms don't require aiming.
Dust is there! I was real!
Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
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CallMeNoName
PIXXXIE
88
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:17:00 -
[265] - Quote
Look, I know that Amarr is not all that good with shields and all, but a 10 Recharge rate on the Sentinel is just a load of BS.
Core Nades can't melt Amarr Sentinels.
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Darth-Carbonite GIO
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
2
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:22:00 -
[266] - Quote
RedPencil wrote:I hate u Darth
And I love you! <3
"Sex is OK!" -CCP Rouge, Executive Producer of Dust and our benevolent overlord.
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Thor Odinson42
Ancient Exiles.
7
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:23:00 -
[267] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:4.Dedicated AV in the form of a Minmando with Swarms or otherwise, can definitely suppress HAVs and area deny Dropships, but rarely destroy vehicles. So this is a huge problem. And... CCP Rattati wrote:Finally, reducing the Swarm Launcher lock-on range, hit impact and turning radius should improve the quality of life of Dropship users, and somewhat for HAVs. This doesn't fix it, this exacerbates it. Breakin, I am disappoint.
It looks like some of the damage you helped do to the ADS is being undone.
Your displeasure warms me inside.
Seriously, port it.
Hurry
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RedPencil
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
210
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:24:00 -
[268] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:@RedPencil
^ Are you serious?!
Maybe you weren't around for closed beta hell.
I wasn't there.
Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
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Balistyc Farshot
MONSTER SYNERGY
401
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:27:00 -
[269] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Balistyc Farshot wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Point and shoot is easy, man. Forges are basically AV sniper rifles. Sorry, I had my mouth full of sour patch kids. Yeah, you sir have never used a Forge Gun for 5h1t! Leave FGs out of this conversation. Sentinels are the most abused suit out there! So leave those who use them alone. Being slow, scanned, and unable to do more than crawl while the FG is charged makes killing things with it a huge pain. If you still see forge snipers, they are trolling. It is so much harder than it used to be with accurate RRs, SCRs, and officer snipers in the hands of the elite snipers (I respect those guys because I hate them.) Next time one gets you, just send him some tasty tears in an email because he earned them. Also Sentinels have bonuses that don't do squat for the new mobility rules playstyle. Your objection begins with "You have obviously never used a forge" but your entire objection to Soraya's statement is based around the disadvantages of the sentinel suit in general and not the forge gun. While I appreciate that yes, those are relevant to forge gun usage, using a forge gun is literally point and shoot. As a weapon, they are very easy to use. You don't have to worry about arc, travel time is negligible, and if you have a clear line to the target you don't need to worry about other obstacles that, say, swarms might get caught on. I appreciate that there are difficulties associated with the other parts of using the weapon, but when it comes down to it the shooting operation is charge, point, shoot. The mobility penalties aren't actually that bad on account of the sorta hilarious jumpglitching you can do to strafe. But honestly, forge guns aren't actually the focal point of this disagreement. It's just swarms. I don't think anyone is calling for forge guns to be nerfed here, so let's not panic about that. They're more being used as a comparison. Is the swarm nerf significant? Is it necessary? Are swarms in a place that seems reasonable to both the AV user and the vehicle user at the moment? Will they be after the nerf?
You are right. I was just pissed he thinks being a sent forge gunner is easy when I doubt he has ever done it regardless of what he says. Those guys get cut down hard by other suits.
As far as swarms being useless at 150m that is less important I believe. The swarm launcher is getting a buff against HAVs from what I read in exchange for the 25m. Why is he focusing on the 25m and not seeing that 1-2 of his missiles will actually hurt tanks more now. He must not be seeing those OP hardened/repping Maddies like the rest of us have been.
"Dying with your rep tool out - the logi-flasher!"
Who hasn't been caught by a cute little female scout doing this?
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Kierkegaard Soren
Eridani Light Horse Battalion
928
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:27:00 -
[270] - Quote
1) The scrambler needed to be balanced by changing the Amarr assault bonus and the Operation skill, not by smashing the gun with increased kick (it already had enough to render full-auto fire difficult to handle). The higher heat from the charged shot is good though, that makes sense. My proposal:
a) Operation skill becomes a reduction of heat per shot of 3% per level, making the scram accessable to all suits that put the skill points into the gun.
b) Amarr Assault gains a bonus to the reduction of all weapon seize duration and seize damage, allowing it, in conjuction with the operational skill, to be the only assault suit that can use a scram ina true assault capacity. They also get a cheeky little buff to the ion pistol (charge shots galore!).
2) Conversely, the GalAR range needed to be tackled gun by gun, and not fixed via a buff to the Galassault (although that bonus is frighteningly good); I know your metrics say otherwise but I'm sticking to my guns and saying that the TAC and Breach are in a good place, the Burst needs an extra round per burst and the whole lineup needs a buff to dispersion, and the AR a built-in buff to ROF. Clearly, take some away from the assault bonus and give it as an inherent feature to weapon itself and you make the weapon a solid choice for all suits, and elevating the GalAss to the true master of assault CQC.
3) Thanks for the biotics buff, much appreciated. Looking forward to shield balancing going forward, need more detail on "weak points"-orientated AV vs V play, but I support the principle.
Looking good overall. Can't wait to play it.
Dedicated Commando.
"He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:35:00 -
[271] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:
I never actually indicated I wanted dropship speed cut in half.
Soraya Xel wrote:
Now, if you're worried about redlining, and need to keep the range short: We can just half the speed of dropships instead. But I think the range is a much better solution.
You can't make this stuff up.
My six year old little sister is better able to comprehend reading and context than you are. My God.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:37:00 -
[272] - Quote
Toobar Zoobar wrote:Why don't you just play ambush all day? It's pretty clear you just hate vehicle's and don't want to interact with them in any way.
I literally just proposed nerfing the part of swarms that I've heard the most complaints from vehicle users about, for years. But apparently I just hate vehicle users. Seriously, you know why vehicle users tick me off? If anyone touches their kingdom of OPness, they misrepresent the crud out of everyone until the conversation dies in a fire.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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RedPencil
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
211
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:38:00 -
[273] - Quote
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:RedPencil wrote:I hate u Darth And I love you! <3
Don't team up with me in FW again! I'm sure I will team kill u before you get on ADS....
This is a revenge for your sin
Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:39:00 -
[274] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Swarms don't require aiming.
Can definitely tell you've never used one. :D Swarms have always required a lot of finesse to get kills with. Back, you know, when it was possible to get kills with swarms.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:40:00 -
[275] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:It looks like some of the damage you helped do to the ADS is being undone.
Your displeasure warms me inside.
Yeah, I'm a little disappointed Judge's followers seem to be back alive and well trying to undo the hard work of CPM1.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Jadek Menaheim
Positive-Feedback.
7
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:40:00 -
[276] - Quote
RedPencil wrote:Jadek Menaheim wrote:@RedPencil
^ Are you serious?!
Maybe you weren't around for closed beta hell. I wasn't there.
It would also likely invalidate the role of the Plasma Cannon if you make the swarm an effective av damage tool that can also take on infantry targets.
However, making a kinetic weapon (minimal hp damage, but very high knockback for vehicles) might work.
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
725
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:44:00 -
[277] - Quote
Still trying to grasp the shield rebuild...
With this set of numbers it feels like anyone can shine with shield, except maybe the amarr sent...
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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NextDark Knight
Hellstorm LLC
861
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:47:00 -
[278] - Quote
Questions :
1) Is the Caldari Assault bonus changing or will this be a undocumented bonus?
2) The Bolt pistol is getting a ROF increase? Is the change based on feedback or is it based on actual Excel weapon balancing?
Comments :
A) Looking forward to Trading all BPOs
B) Swarm Launchers had dumb fire in early days
C) Excellent on the Swarm Changes for Commando TY.
D) Rather have the 10 damage threshold on the Cal Sentinel as originally posted.
Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
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Nirwanda Vaughns
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:48:00 -
[279] - Quote
Swarm lock range again? the other stuff yeah, but the range is ridiculous. dropships will be out of range before the second round is off and tanks will just blast the crap out of ya. if the lock range is dropping then cant we at least get a specialization skill that increases it with similar training multiplier as the fitting ops? so that it takes a couple mill SP to get a good range so the vehicle drivers can't whine about it
on other bits, Gal assault bonus seems nice. that breach AR could be a real beast in close range now and nic eto see the caldari assault i've been bringing up over the past few months has come in, although if it was restricted to being scoped kick/recoil it'd be better.
Please fix my C-II hitpoints!!
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:48:00 -
[280] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Tesfa Alem wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:
I never actually indicated I wanted dropship speed cut in half.
Soraya Xel wrote:
Now, if you're worried about redlining, and need to keep the range short: We can just half the speed of dropships instead. But I think the range is a much better solution.
You can't make this stuff up. My six year old little sister is better able to comprehend reading and context than you are. My God.
Good for her :)
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Nirwanda Vaughns
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:56:00 -
[281] - Quote
Oh also. Are my C-II's shields gonna get sorted? it was unique in being a heavy shield user but nowdays its falling behind and kinda losing its place as having stats midway between C-I and C/I
Please fix my C-II hitpoints!!
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:59:00 -
[282] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Yeah, I'm a little disappointed Judge's followers seem to be back alive and well trying to undo the hard work of CPM1.
You're just mad that there are some people that aren't as vehiclephobic as you are, and that they're opposing you instead of lying back and just taking it.
You claim to be for balance, yet you barely offer anything in return for your suggested changes and the little that you do generally amounts to nothing of any meaning. I can't say that I agree with the FoxFour changes, I don't think they did the root of the problem, but they're better than Swarms simply denying an area to dropships merely by existing.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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THUNDERGROOVE
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
1
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Posted - 2015.09.24 23:02:00 -
[283] - Quote
NextDark Knight wrote:The Bolt pistol is getting a ROF increase?
CCP Rattati wrote:
Bolt Pistol ROF is reduced
Come on.
The enemies of God stand broken before us. The light of the Reclaiming shines over them!
12/13/14 Never forget
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
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Posted - 2015.09.24 23:09:00 -
[284] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:please read the whole thing. Overall a massive buff for dedicated AV, both infantry and vehicle. I did read the whole thing. Can you spell out the part where Swarms were buffed? If the damage was buffed in a way I'm not realizing, can you explain how that's supposed to help when I have half the range of a forge gun, and can't really hit anything I want to fire at anyhow? CCP Rattati wrote:Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon? Logically, my ability to punt infantry suits with the forge means it's superior to swarms in multiple ways. Does the forge have tracking? the forge is a heavy weapon with loads of drawbacks and therefore packs the highest punch.
Does the Forge need tracking?
I ask because I'd always thought there was significant skill involved in Forge Sniping. Right up until I tried it myself. It was my experience that a Red Reticle corresponded with a hit in all but a few cases (namely, head glitching). In other words, forge projectile speed was sufficiently fast that a Red Reticle = Hit on vehicle within range. |
Vicious Minotaur
2
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Posted - 2015.09.24 23:10:00 -
[285] - Quote
Ignoring all the vehicle gobbledygook:
The grenade changes seem are asinine. Most of my fits, even my high-meta 'advanced' and some of my 'proto' suits (that I never run) will be one-shot by standard grenades.
Grenades, last time I checked, are still replenished by nanohives. Nanohives have been buffed in carry amount. This and these grenades will be a problem, mark my words. Spam will come, but unfortunately for all involved, it won't be the tasty edible kind.
I am a minotaur.
Beware my poop.
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
726
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Posted - 2015.09.24 23:11:00 -
[286] - Quote
So now that I'm home...
DUBYA TEE EFF?
Before foxfour one can assemble a galass with:
412
344
20sps
23aps
Unfettered speed
2.2d
3.9dd
Wtaf? After fix hits the galass will be MORE than capable of insane regen stats. Swap an extender for an energizer and you get 34sps on 327.
Swap a reg for rep and its still fast (post foxfour) delays, and gets 32aps...
Am I the only person who thinks that's too far????
Before I completely lose it I will math the calass next and maybe all will be as the Phoenix.... Or maybe just fire sans rebirth....
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
726
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Posted - 2015.09.24 23:12:00 -
[287] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:please read the whole thing. Overall a massive buff for dedicated AV, both infantry and vehicle. I did read the whole thing. Can you spell out the part where Swarms were buffed? If the damage was buffed in a way I'm not realizing, can you explain how that's supposed to help when I have half the range of a forge gun, and can't really hit anything I want to fire at anyhow? CCP Rattati wrote:Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon? Logically, my ability to punt infantry suits with the forge means it's superior to swarms in multiple ways. Does the forge have tracking? the forge is a heavy weapon with loads of drawbacks and therefore packs the highest punch. Does the Forge need tracking? I ask because I'd always thought there was significant skill involved in Forge Sniping. Right up until I tried it myself. It was my experience that a Red Reticle corresponded with a hit in all but a few cases (namely, head glitching). In other words, forge projectile speed was sufficiently fast that a Red Reticle = Hit on vehicle within range.
When people say forge sniping they mean against infantry.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Toobar Zoobar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
148
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Posted - 2015.09.24 23:14:00 -
[288] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Toobar Zoobar wrote:Why don't you just play ambush all day? It's pretty clear you just hate vehicle's and don't want to interact with them in any way. I literally just proposed nerfing the part of swarms that I've heard the most complaints from vehicle users about, for years. But apparently I just hate vehicle users. Seriously, you know why vehicle users tick me off? If anyone touches their kingdom of OPness, they misrepresent the crud out of everyone until the conversation dies in a fire.
"kingdom of OPness".
^This. Arrogance.
This is the first update in a long time that is in some way actually helping out the ADS and STILL you have to complain. After all the nerfs the ads has got over the years and the buffs the swarms have got, you still just can't let up for one second.
It does come across that you seem to hate the ADS with this unrelenting campaign of yours to relegate pilots to the operators of flying pinyadas.
Specialization: Making typo's.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
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Posted - 2015.09.24 23:22:00 -
[289] - Quote
Devadander wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
Does the forge have tracking? the forge is a heavy weapon with loads of drawbacks and therefore packs the highest punch.
Does the Forge need tracking? I ask because I'd always thought there was significant skill involved in Forge Sniping. Right up until I tried it myself. It was my experience that a Red Reticle corresponded with a hit in all but a few cases (namely, head glitching). In other words, forge projectile speed was sufficiently fast that a Red Reticle = Hit on vehicle within range. When people say forge sniping they mean against infantry.
Precisely. Always thought to myself after getting Forge Sniped, "whoa! that dude's a good shot!". Turns out -- to my surprise -- that you don't have to lead your targets with a forge gun. Just hold the charge and release the trigger when the reticle turns red. Hitting infantry is much easier than I expected it'd be. Hitting vehicles is even easier than that.
Forge Guns not killing vehicles has very little to do with skill and more to do with with weapon's low RoF combined with vehicle reps and hardeners. The "soft spot" buff is perfect, IMO. Should make Forge Guns much more effective against HAVs. That said, claims to the effect that "Forging requires player skill, Swarming does not" are pure fantasy. |
Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
18
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Posted - 2015.09.24 23:24:00 -
[290] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Devadander wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
Does the forge have tracking? the forge is a heavy weapon with loads of drawbacks and therefore packs the highest punch.
Does the Forge need tracking? I ask because I'd always thought there was significant skill involved in Forge Sniping. Right up until I tried it myself. It was my experience that a Red Reticle corresponded with a hit in all but a few cases (namely, head glitching). In other words, forge projectile speed was sufficiently fast that a Red Reticle = Hit on vehicle within range. When people say forge sniping they mean against infantry. Precisely. Always thought to myself after getting Forge Sniped, "whoa! that dude's a good shot!". Turns out -- to my surprise -- that you don't have to lead your targets with a forge gun. Just hold the charge and release the trigger when the reticle turns red. Hitting infantry is much easier than I expected. Hitting vehicles is even easier than that.
Eh, depends on range and the direction they're going.
If they're going right at you or standing still, they're an easy as hell kill.
If they're going side ways, it becomes difficult at longer ranges, but still very doable.
Forge skill requirements are overrated.
Ripley Riley:
> Post Hotfix Foxour Gallente Assault:
> DakkadakkadakkadakkaFREEDOMdakkadakka
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
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Posted - 2015.09.24 23:29:00 -
[291] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Forge skill requirements are overrated.
Agreed. Forging is more about managing one's surroundings and ammo supply than precision aiming. I'd encourage anyone who thinks (like I once did) that Forge Gunners have to lead their targets to try the weapon out for themselves. The projectile is far faster than you'd expect it to be.
Edit: Note, that I'm describing sniping with the "standard' forge gun. The assault variant is more skill intensive when it comes to popping infantry as you have to time your shots; it cannot hold a charge. |
Vicious Minotaur
2
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Posted - 2015.09.24 23:32:00 -
[292] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Devadander wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
Does the forge have tracking? the forge is a heavy weapon with loads of drawbacks and therefore packs the highest punch.
Does the Forge need tracking? I ask because I'd always thought there was significant skill involved in Forge Sniping. Right up until I tried it myself. It was my experience that a Red Reticle corresponded with a hit in all but a few cases (namely, head glitching). In other words, forge projectile speed was sufficiently fast that a Red Reticle = Hit on vehicle within range. When people say forge sniping they mean against infantry. Precisely. Always thought to myself after getting Forge Sniped, "whoa! that dude's a good shot!". Turns out -- to my surprise -- that you don't have to lead your targets with a forge gun. Just hold the charge and release the trigger when the reticle turns red. Hitting infantry is much easier than I expected. Hitting vehicles is even easier than that.
You either are a better shot than most of the playerbase (and a minotaur), played against players that stand still 90% of the time, or only forge gunned for a very short amount of time.
I have a dedicated forge gun sniping alt that I use, and (blah blah blah, anecdotes, blah) I can't tell you how many times I've lined up a shot on a stationary target, get a red reticule, BLAM! and a miss.
And never mind that with regards to targets moving horizontally along the screen necessitates that you lead unless (maybe) you are point-blank.
I've also used the forge gun as a point blank weapon, and even then, getting to blap people is one helluva up hill battle.
Of course, forge sniping is made a little easier with the standard version that allows you to hold your charge, but even having switched to that version myself, I still miss when I get a red reticule, I still have to lead targets moving horizontally, and I still miss when I engage in close quarters combat.
(and still, talking about skill requirements of weapons in DUST is the epitome of stupid. EVERYTHING is "easy peasy" to competent FPS players.)
I am a minotaur.
Beware my poop.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
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Posted - 2015.09.24 23:35:00 -
[293] - Quote
Vicious Minotaur wrote:
Of course, forge sniping is made a little easier with the standard version that allows you to hold your charge, but even having switched to that version myself, I still miss when I get a red reticule, I still have to lead targets moving horizontally, and I still miss when I engage in close quarters combat.
The standard forge is the only version I sniped infantry with. Found the Breach Forge to be terrible at everything. Found the Assault Forge to be better at dispatching vehicles but far more difficult to snipe infantry with. |
Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 23:40:00 -
[294] - Quote
Toobar Zoobar wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Toobar Zoobar wrote:Why don't you just play ambush all day? It's pretty clear you just hate vehicle's and don't want to interact with them in any way. I literally just proposed nerfing the part of swarms that I've heard the most complaints from vehicle users about, for years. But apparently I just hate vehicle users. Seriously, you know why vehicle users tick me off? If anyone touches their kingdom of OPness, they misrepresent the crud out of everyone until the conversation dies in a fire. "kingdom of OPness". ^This. Arrogance. This is the first update in a long time that is in some way actually helping out the ADS and STILL you have to complain. After all the nerfs the ads has got over the years and the buffs the swarms have got, you still just can't let up for one second. It does come across that you seem to hate the ADS with this unrelenting campaign of yours to relegate pilots to the operators of flying pinyadas.
Because the ADS should not get any help. I've seen the numbers, it was nerfed for good reason, and it still wasn't nerfed enough. If you saw what I saw, you would not even question my feedback.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
729
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 23:44:00 -
[295] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:
Of course, forge sniping is made a little easier with the standard version that allows you to hold your charge, but even having switched to that version myself, I still miss when I get a red reticule, I still have to lead targets moving horizontally, and I still miss when I engage in close quarters combat.
The standard forge is the only version I sniped infantry with. Found the Breach Forge to be terrible at everything. Found the Assault Forge to be better at dispatching vehicles but far more difficult to snipe infantry with.
IF I use a forge on infantry, its the AFG.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
18
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Posted - 2015.09.24 23:45:00 -
[296] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Toobar Zoobar wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Toobar Zoobar wrote:Why don't you just play ambush all day? It's pretty clear you just hate vehicle's and don't want to interact with them in any way. I literally just proposed nerfing the part of swarms that I've heard the most complaints from vehicle users about, for years. But apparently I just hate vehicle users. Seriously, you know why vehicle users tick me off? If anyone touches their kingdom of OPness, they misrepresent the crud out of everyone until the conversation dies in a fire. "kingdom of OPness". ^This. Arrogance. This is the first update in a long time that is in some way actually helping out the ADS and STILL you have to complain. After all the nerfs the ads has got over the years and the buffs the swarms have got, you still just can't let up for one second. It does come across that you seem to hate the ADS with this unrelenting campaign of yours to relegate pilots to the operators of flying pinyadas. Because the ADS should not get any help. I've seen the numbers, it was nerfed for good reason, and it still wasn't nerfed enough. If you saw what I saw, you would not even question my feedback.
Soraya, after he saw the stats
Ripley Riley:
> Post Hotfix Foxour Gallente Assault:
> DakkadakkadakkadakkaFREEDOMdakkadakka
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RedPencil
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
212
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 23:48:00 -
[297] - Quote
@ Ratt,
Can we not nerf swarm please
Have you ever compare how many swarmer die vs ADS lost?
Can you considering how superior of ADS in battle?
Swarmer is the easiest target to kill and the swarm itself already blind 40% of their vision.
1 hit from ADS and the swarmer is doom, but it took more than 3 hits by swarm to chase away ADS
I'm not mind if you want to increase swarm cost and SP require if it would shut up the ADS QQ
It's a shame to carry a weapon that design for damage only a vehicle, but its target is out of range 80% of the time......
Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
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Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
771
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 23:52:00 -
[298] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Vicious Minotaur wrote:
Of course, forge sniping is made a little easier with the standard version that allows you to hold your charge, but even having switched to that version myself, I still miss when I get a red reticule, I still have to lead targets moving horizontally, and I still miss when I engage in close quarters combat.
The standard forge is the only version I sniped infantry with. Found the Breach Forge to be terrible at everything. Found the Assault Forge to be better at dispatching vehicles but far more difficult to snipe infantry with.
The biggest issue with the Breach is that it immobilises you. The long charge time is bad enough, but being forced to remain still unless you do the Sentinel Shuffle makes it not worth taking for anything other that smacking circling ADS from long range.
Purifier. First Class.
|
Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 23:54:00 -
[299] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Toobar Zoobar wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Toobar Zoobar wrote:Why don't you just play ambush all day? It's pretty clear you just hate vehicle's and don't want to interact with them in any way. I literally just proposed nerfing the part of swarms that I've heard the most complaints from vehicle users about, for years. But apparently I just hate vehicle users. Seriously, you know why vehicle users tick me off? If anyone touches their kingdom of OPness, they misrepresent the crud out of everyone until the conversation dies in a fire. "kingdom of OPness". ^This. Arrogance. This is the first update in a long time that is in some way actually helping out the ADS and STILL you have to complain. After all the nerfs the ads has got over the years and the buffs the swarms have got, you still just can't let up for one second. It does come across that you seem to hate the ADS with this unrelenting campaign of yours to relegate pilots to the operators of flying pinyadas. Because the ADS should not get any help. I've seen the numbers, it was nerfed for good reason, and it still wasn't nerfed enough. If you saw what I saw, you would not even question my feedback.
You mean how the ADS had an average KD of 40 or above when they had 10% ROF and ten second recharged AB modules? Yeah, Zatara told me. Now if you'll be so kind as to show me what you've seen now that proves that they, as you stated "wasn't nerfed enough".
Don't confuse this for telling me numbers, I want to see actual proof that the paltry remainder of pilots who still play deserve to get nerfed all over again.
99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg
Oh yeah?! Well, I love redheads.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
27
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 23:56:00 -
[300] - Quote
I must confess that I quickly lose sympathy when I hear ADS pilots complaining that their KDR is lower than 50 when they run ADS.
Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
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|
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 00:01:00 -
[301] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I must confess that I quickly lose sympathy when I hear ADS pilots complaining that their KDR is lower than 50 when they run ADS.
Where did any pilot say that?
99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg
Oh yeah?! Well, I love redheads.
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Arkena Wyrnspire
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
27
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 00:03:00 -
[302] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I must confess that I quickly lose sympathy when I hear ADS pilots complaining that their KDR is lower than 50 when they run ADS. Where did any pilot say that?
Judge did.
Perhaps that wasn't quite the same, but when I hear people saying that yes, they are worth more as individual players than groups alarm bells start ringing.
Arkena Wyrnspire aka "British Khorne" - Cross Atu
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 00:07:00 -
[303] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Derrith Erador wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I must confess that I quickly lose sympathy when I hear ADS pilots complaining that their KDR is lower than 50 when they run ADS. Where did any pilot say that? Judge did. Perhaps that wasn't quite the same, but when I hear people saying that yes, they are worth more as individual players than groups alarm bells start ringing.
And if I recall, Derrith's support for Judge's position was unwavering.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Genral69 death
RAT PATROL INC.
746
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 00:08:00 -
[304] - Quote
RedPencil wrote:@ Ratt, Can we not nerf swarm please Have you ever compare how many swarmer die vs ADS lost? Can you considering how superior of ADS in battle? Swarmer is the easiest target to kill and the swarm itself already blind 40% of their vision. 1 hit from ADS and the swarmer is doom, but it took more than 3 hits by swarm to chase away ADS I'm not mine if you want to increase swarm cost and SP require if it would shut up the ADS QQ It's a shame to carry a weapon that design for damage only a vehicle, but its target is out of range 80% of the time......
I'm sorry but I really cannot take you seriously.
1) it takes 2-3 hits from a XT small missle launcher to kill most min mando's not 1
2) swarm user are not the easiest to kill as by the time the ads pilot has located you, your second swarm round is closing in.
Can you considering how superior of ADS in battle?
I'm not even sure wtf that means
At least bring a valid argument to the table
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.09.25 00:08:00 -
[305] - Quote
Kalante Schiffer wrote:Aeon Amadi wrote:Kalante Schiffer wrote:im interested in that magsec and caldari buff. The range nerfed seemed unnecessary tho. I would had leaved the weapons as is too see how it played out with the ar buff. but oh well. Assault variants had their range nerfed to more closely relate to their bullet-hose nature. Lot of Gallente Assauls ran ARR because of the DPS being very close to the AR's despite it having something like 30m longer optimal range. What made the ARR on a gall so much better than having it on a caldari suit is due to the fact that you can put damage mods. You had a weapon that could chew a heavy from over 50 meters a way. The duvolle assault rifle was nowhere near as good as the ARR at shooting armor. There was no point in even running the weapons with their respective races. Now with this RoF buff on the assault rifle it might be possible to break away from that. The kick bonus on the caldari seems more of helping hand for people that do not know how to control recoil but whatever. I would of liked it better if it was a recharge reduction bonus and keep the recoil as it's counter nerf just like the RoF has it's own counter nerf with ammo being depleted faster and what not.
Placed in my notes.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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Demandred Moores
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
119
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 00:09:00 -
[306] - Quote
Nothing but rats running bons and kalantes in pcI'm calling it now. Rof buff for bons lmfao! |
Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 00:11:00 -
[307] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Derrith Erador wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I must confess that I quickly lose sympathy when I hear ADS pilots complaining that their KDR is lower than 50 when they run ADS. Where did any pilot say that? Judge did. Perhaps that wasn't quite the same, but when I hear people saying that yes, they are worth more as individual players than groups alarm bells start ringing.
It really isn't. And if Judge said that, he's clearly wrong. And as far as pilots being worth more than groups... well, a phrase from a friend comes to mind.
"Vehicles are a force multiplier, but only if there's an actual force to be multiplied".
Any proper pilot is reliant in some way on blue chicks, whether it be securing high ground, which keeps AV from securing proper positions, help hunt down excess AV, as it is highly improbable that any pilot can 3v1 any type of AV, unless they're bad AV.
I don't know who said that, but they're clearly wrong. They're worth the force that they support.
99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg
Oh yeah?! Well, I love redheads.
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Starlight Burner
Black Screen
Adaptation.
521
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 00:13:00 -
[308] - Quote
Fellow Caldari people. Our calls hath be answered!
Soon, no more will we cower in fear of our enemies.
For today, we stand. For steps towards our shields guiding us to victory grow stronger!
I yearn for the call to battle!!
For Caldari!
(Thank you so much for this. I'm quite excited to see shields getting looked at.)
CEO of Arrary of Clusters, a close relations corporation
Caldari Factional Warfare, enlist today!
Thank you for DUST
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Aeon Amadi
12
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Posted - 2015.09.25 00:16:00 -
[309] - Quote
Hilariously gloriously hilarious.
Demandred Moores wrote:Nothing but rats running bons and kalantes in pcI'm calling it now. Rof buff for bons lmfao! Also the change shot on the scr isn't the problem it's the spammed shots what a joke.
Good thing the Gal Assault bonus doesn't apply to Shotguns.
Negative Introspection - Aeon's CPM Blog
Skype: nomistrav
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exiik Krincevi
Mithril Forge
E-R-A
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 00:31:00 -
[310] - Quote
Core Locus grenades will no one use anymore. They were so good and expensive, because high damage, but now? Why use something 3x expensive than advance grenades when it has same damage?
Does ppl with grenades lvl 5 get free skill reset? because with this changes, is useless train grenades to lvl5... |
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Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
773
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 00:36:00 -
[311] - Quote
exiik Krincevi wrote:Core Locus grenades will no one use anymore. They were so good and expensive, because high damage, but now? Why use something 3x expensive than advance grenades when it has same damage?
Does ppl with grenades lvl 5 get free skill reset? because with this changes, is useless train grenades to lvl5...
Lai Dai Packed AV Grenades.
Seems worth it to me.
Purifier. First Class.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
20
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 00:49:00 -
[312] - Quote
Interesting changes...... still not really enough to make HAV real tanks.
Em shah tey et naGÇÖemsaer ek rahvi, amarr osedah gasi ubday pahk. Ekin tey vahka ijed div ema ziel. Et tey vamatal em.
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RedPencil
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
219
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Posted - 2015.09.25 00:50:00 -
[313] - Quote
Genral69 death wrote:I'm sorry but I really cannot take you seriously.
1) it takes 2-3 hits from a XT small missle launcher to kill most min mando's not 1
2) swarm user are not the easiest to kill as by the time the ads pilot has located you, your second swarm round is closing in.
Can you considering how superior of ADS in battle?
I'm not even sure wtf that means
At least bring a valid argument to the table
1) Fix: 1 hit from ADS and the swarmer (MOST SWARMER) is doom, but it took more than 3 hits by swarm to chase away ADS
Not all swarmer run minmondo, Ask Rat to show the swarmer number if you want to use it as a solid argument.
2) By the time a swarmer fire the first shot, all the enemy in the battle field will coming for him.
Dear poor ADS, please open your narrow minded for once. Hopefully, you would see the world from a difference perspective.
Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
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NextDark Knight
Hellstorm LLC
862
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 00:50:00 -
[314] - Quote
THUNDERGROOVE wrote:NextDark Knight wrote:The Bolt pistol is getting a ROF (fixed) ? CCP Rattati wrote:
Bolt Pistol ROF is reduced
Come on.
Yeah it's what I get for skiming the changes while doing homework, feeding the kid, and listening to the family yack yack yack.
I'll take the heat!! Boooo
Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
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Daddrobit
You Can Call Me Daddy
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 01:00:00 -
[315] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:I think you people are not reading it right.
I think that's 1% ROF per level rather than 5% per level.
The Caldari bonus specifically says "per level" while the Gallente bonus does not.
First off, sooooo glad to finally see this getting implemented. I've been asking for something like this for over a year now.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2317525#post2317525
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2317564#post2317564
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2338964#post2338964
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2757326#post2757326
I'm fairly sure that it's just gonna be a 1% per level thing. Imagine a Kalente with 25% more ROF?
That would be around 1120 ROF.
It would deal out almost 700 DPS BEFORE any damage mods!
with 3 damage mods, we would be looking at almost........
825 DPS!!!
That's more than a Boundless HMG with 4 damage mods.
I'm legitimately giggling at the thought.
Please Rattati, just for a day, I promise I'll come back for this.
Anyways...
With just a 5% bonus, we're looking at:
~20 DPS increase for basic
~22 DPS increase for adv
~23 DPS increase for proto
~23 DPS increase for krins
~26 DPS increase for balacs
~28 DPS increase for kallentes
But then you also get 1-2 more DPS from damage mods as well, so... Yay.
O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
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TaaSr GunZ
DUST University
Ivy League
56
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 01:04:00 -
[316] - Quote
I still can't trade my lav bpo on my alt
"The Amarr people came into the world and the world came into being."
- The Scriptures, Book I 1:14
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Demandred Moores
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
120
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 01:09:00 -
[317] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:Hilariously gloriously hilarious. Demandred Moores wrote:Nothing but rats running bons and kalantes in pcI'm calling it now. Rof buff for bons lmfao! Also the change shot on the scr isn't the problem it's the spammed shots what a joke. Good thing the Gal Assault bonus doesn't apply to Shotguns.
Gotcha, so a bunch of rats running bons and kalantes. Understood. |
RedPencil
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
219
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Posted - 2015.09.25 01:16:00 -
[318] - Quote
Darth-Carbonite GIO
Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 01:31:00 -
[319] - Quote
RedPencil wrote:Dear poor ADS, please open your narrow minded for once. Hopefully, you would see the world from a difference perspective.
Dear Swarmer, please pay 2-10x the cost of your suit (tier/BPO usage dependant) for a single ADS; please require significant effort to even move around while paying attention to any and everything you possibly can because there might be someone not rendering ready to fire at you; please have to deal with your opponent literally tossing you around and moving your screen to throw off your aim; please have to actually aim instead of having a box that takes up half your screen do all of the work for you; please try to hit an opponent that is minuscule on your screen that is also jumping up and down.
There are a multitude of issues on both sides of the argument, don't make out as if ADS pilots want an easy ride: we want a fair ride.
I've stated my personal position before: I'd be happy being readily destructible if my ship didn't cost 2xx or more that of a fully fit PRO dropsuit; I'd be happy to fight against Swarms that required even a small amount of aiming (I've linked to [b]Juno's thread[b] dozens of times to show the sort of mechanic I strongly believe in); or if the ADS could actually evade Swarms with enough skill.
ADSs have an incredibly steep challenge against even a single AV player, for which they have barely any tools to use beside the inherent benefits of being able to fly and being a vehicle: there is nor real indication of the direction from which you are under attack; identification of enemies is hindered greatly by bad rendering; pilots are barely awarded any WP from actions other than killing (only kills and vehicle kill assists give meaningful WP; mCRU spawns do but are plagued by glitches) which makes their intended role barely operated and - due to the throw-away nature of MLT gear, and the tiny size of the maps - barely wanted by anyone. Dropship pilots tend to (there are some unreasonable folks, as ever) want to be relevant. The main reason so many vehemently opposed people like Soraya is that usually those people are too heavy handed, or simply not as reasonable as they present themselves to be.
Neither ADS pilots nor Swarmers are inherently wrong, only when the person doesn't understand the other's issues do we have problems in communicating.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
850
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 01:41:00 -
[320] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I must confess that I quickly lose sympathy when I hear ADS pilots complaining that their KDR is lower than 50 when they run ADS.
Who? When?
ADS Ramming Revenge!
Plasma Cannon Rampage
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HOWDIDHEKILLME
Dying to Reload
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 02:03:00 -
[321] - Quote
The new nade's numbers are ridiculous I can't belive this is even being proposed. |
Demandred Moores
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
122
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 02:08:00 -
[322] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:RedPencil wrote:Dear poor ADS, please open your narrow minded for once. Hopefully, you would see the world from a difference perspective. Dear Swarmer, please pay 2-10x the cost of your suit (tier/BPO usage dependant) for a single ADS; please require significant effort to even move around while paying attention to any and everything you possibly can because there might be someone not rendering ready to fire at you; please have to deal with your opponent literally tossing you around and moving your screen to throw off your aim; please have to actually aim instead of having a box that takes up half your screen do all of the work for you; please try to hit an opponent that is minuscule on your screen that is also jumping up and down. There are a multitude of issues on both sides of the argument, don't make out as if ADS pilots want an easy ride: we want a fair ride. I've stated my personal position before: I'd be happy being readily destructible if my ship didn't cost 2xx or more that of a fully fit PRO dropsuit; I'd be happy to fight against Swarms that required even a small amount of aiming (I've linked to [b]Juno's thread[b] dozens of times to show the sort of mechanic I strongly believe in); or if the ADS could actually evade Swarms with enough skill. ADSs have an incredibly steep challenge against even a single AV player, for which they have barely any tools to use beside the inherent benefits of being able to fly and being a vehicle: there is nor real indication of the direction from which you are under attack; identification of enemies is hindered greatly by bad rendering; pilots are barely awarded any WP from actions other than killing (only kills and vehicle kill assists give meaningful WP; mCRU spawns do but are plagued by glitches) which makes their intended role barely operated and - due to the throw-away nature of MLT gear, and the tiny size of the maps - barely wanted by anyone. Dropship pilots tend to (there are some unreasonable folks, as ever) want to be relevant. The main reason so many vehemently opposed people like Soraya is that usually those people are too heavy handed, or simply not as reasonable as they present themselves to be. Neither ADS pilots nor Swarmers are inherently wrong, only when the person doesn't understand the other's issues do we have problems in communicating. some valid points here. But my ads is still op, and av loses more than me before they take me out. It's not so bad as you make it seem. #foreverpython
Also a fully fit python is like 100 - 150k more than a minmando please you're giving ads pilots a bad name. Stop. |
Darth-Carbonite GIO
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 02:10:00 -
[323] - Quote
That's awesome! +1
"Sex is OK!" -CCP Rouge, Executive Producer of Dust and our benevolent overlord.
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Sir Snugglz
Red Star.
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 02:18:00 -
[324] - Quote
"Swarms are too strong"
After years of making this argument is this the first time it has officially been stated by a dev??????????????????
Like seriously, has a dev admitted this before this day?
I believe we have taken the first step to progress. No more in denial.
Btw, what exactly do you mean by turn radius????
we still keeping the sharp 90 degree turns? or is it gonna be more curvey now?
#PILOT
-Pro AFKing LVL 5
-Luck is just one of my skills
-Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 02:20:00 -
[325] - Quote
Sir Snugglz wrote:"Swarms are too strong"
After years of making this argument is this the first time it has officially been stated by a dev??????????????????
Like seriously, has a dev admitted this before this day?
I believe we have taken the first step to progress. No more in denial.
Btw, what exactly do you mean by turn radius????
we still keeping the sharp 90 degree turns? or is it gonna be more curvey now?
#PILOT
The turn radius got nerfed (thank space jesus) to 50 degrees
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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Moochie Cricket
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 02:24:00 -
[326] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Forge skill requirements are overrated. Agreed. Forging is more about managing one's surroundings and ammo supply than precision aiming. I'd encourage anyone who thinks (like I once did) that Forge Gunners have to lead their targets to try the weapon out for themselves. The projectile is far faster than you'd expect it to be. Edit: Note that I'm describing sniping with the "standard' forge gun. The assault variant is more skill intensive when it comes to popping infantry as you have to time your shots; it cannot hold a charge.
Watch the video in my signature titled "Caldari" starting at the 2:35 mark and tell me again with a straight face that forge guns do not require any leading of the target.
Caldari
REALLY 514
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Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
853
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 02:32:00 -
[327] - Quote
Interested to see how the calmando turns out with all the changes
ADS Ramming Revenge!
Plasma Cannon Rampage
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 02:34:00 -
[328] - Quote
Demandred Moores wrote:some valid points here. But my ads is still op, and av loses more than me before they take me out. It's not so bad as you make it seem. #foreverpython
Also a fully fit python is like 100 - 150k more than a minmando please you're giving ads pilots a bad name. Stop.
ADSs being OP is entirely debatable. What constitutes being OP? KDR? ISK destroyed per death?
That's a legitimate question I'm asking: what makes the ADS specifically OP? Because if it's something measurable then surely Rattati wouldn't be making changes to ease the life of the ADS such as the proposed FoxFour changes, right?
I don't always fly, in fact I often ground pound. I mostly use my PLC and that can scare away ADSs fine for the most part (it's hard to hit them, but one solid hit and they're usually running) whereas my ADV Swarms on a STD suit costs minimal ISK and can put the hurt on any but the most hardened ADS. And that's kinda the thing: anecdotally, a single Wiyrkomi can seriously frighten even my double hardened Pythons - that Wiyrkomi does not need to be mounted on a fully PRO fit MinCom (orsoon to be CalCom) it can be on a STD MinCom and run to about 60k ISK with PRO damage mods while providing top-tier firepower and being plenty able to defend itself against infantry.
Is that OP? I don't think so, but I do feel that vehicles need a serious overhaul more than Hotfix tweaks to really get a proper balance going. While they cost an arm and a leg to operate they need to have that much of an impact on the battlefield, or else they aren't worth operating - surely it'd be better to make them less expensive and less effective simultaneously, thereby making them more interesting to actually see on the field. Well, in my opinion that's the case.
As for the cost,a fully fit ADS will cost around 300-400k; a fully fit PRO dropsuit will cost 120-200ish, depending on the suit. But as I also mentioned above, an AV suit doesn't need to be PRO to take on an ADS. A STD MinCom with Combat Rifle (or CalCom with ARR after FoxFour) and a Wiyrkomi will cost roughly 40-60k, depending on how it's fit/what tiers are used for the modules, etc. That's not dirt cheap but it's significantly less expensive than an ADS and threatens it to nearly the same degree as a fully PRO suit does,only sacrificing a small amount of damage by not stacking up as many damage mods as possible. Whereas on the flip side,the minimum cost of an ADSis roughly 250k with just STD mods and a single turret.
Again, not entirely unreasonable, but then there's a large disparity with the power/cost ratio of the two.
But yeah it's not all bad for the ADS, but the situation is overall not good and is definitely not a healthy balance. I just find that Soraya is unnecessarily militant about V/AV changes, and others like the one I was responding to earlier seem to feel that most ADS pilots want a free ride, which isn't the case.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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RedPencil
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
222
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Posted - 2015.09.25 03:00:00 -
[329] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:....
Rising the cost of swarm and sp require isn't a problem at all as I already post in the earlier post. But before you compare that cost, would it be fare to ask Rat to show the lost number of both side first?
Surrounding awareness is require in any role. ADS may encounter invisible swarm, but you also have Hardener and AFB to protect and bring you out. What about swarmer? What do they have?
"A box that takes up half your screen do all of the work" How about we convert assault swarm to work as missile turrets?
Have you considering things or roles you could do with ADS compare to swarmer or AV player?
Have you considering firepower between those two?
With 16 (1ADS + 15 mercs) vs 16 (2-4 AV + 12-14 mercs), what is the odds of team win?
Fact, It is next to impossible for AV to 1-1 ADS and beat it.
If you think that we may not understand the other's issues, then we need a solid evident to show and prove the current state before claim to nerf something.
To Be honest, Rat should explain and show a solid number to the community.
Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
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Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
856
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Posted - 2015.09.25 03:09:00 -
[330] - Quote
RedPencil wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:.... Rising the cost of swarm and sp require isn't a problem at all as I already post in the earlier post. But before you compare that cost, would it be fare to ask Rat to show the lost number of both side first? Surrounding awareness is require in any role. ADS may encounter invisible swarm, but you also have Hardener and AFB to protect and bring you out. What about swarmer? What do they have? "A box that takes up half your screen do all of the work" How about we convert assault swarm to work as missile turrets? Have you considering things or roles you could do with ADS compare to swarmer or AV player? Have you considering firepower between those two? With 16 (1ADS + 15 mercs) vs 16 (2-4 AV + 12-14 mercs), what is the odds of team win? Fact, It is next to impossible for AV to 1-1 ADS and beat it. If you think that we may not understand the other's issues, then we need a solid evident to show and prove the current state before claim to nerf something. To Be honest, Rat should explain and show a solid number to the community.
Who would win?
Well since this is not an ambush match, whoever holds the points, and using your logic since vehicles can't hack the AV side has the numerical advantage and will win
Vehicles are good at killing because that's all they can do
ADS Ramming Revenge!
Plasma Cannon Rampage
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
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Posted - 2015.09.25 03:13:00 -
[331] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:
Forge gun:
+ Longest ranged AV option
+ Has multiple useful variants
+ Highest alpha damage of all AV
+ Strong against infantry - there's a reason it's been used as a sniper replacement in the past (and been nerfed for it)
+ Most accurate AV option - can reliably hit weakpoints
+ Fastest projectile of all AV
- Charge time
- Lowered mobility whilst charging
- Has to be on a heavy suit (? Does this count as a real combat drawback?)
Swarm launcher:
+ Tracking
+ Doesn't need to be used on a heavy suit
- Short range
- Travel time
- Completely unable to defend against infantry, rendering a sidearm mandatory
- Unreliable on ground targets (e.g. frequently running into walls)
- Lock-on time (less than forge gun's charge up time though)
- Cannot be pre-charged (unlike the forge gun)
There're probably a couple of points you can scrounge elsewhere, but I don't really think that lineup favours the swarms.
The one thing that has always bugged me about the FG is that range. It's a railgun on a heavy suit that has full up and down directional aiming and able to position itself in far more advantageous positions over a tank it's intended to fight. I would personally like to see the FG get knocked down a peg or two on range. Maybe trade out for more damage but less range. Breakin, where you at fool.
When hell freezes over unless the rate of fire goes up on the forge.
Then we'll talk.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.09.25 03:20:00 -
[332] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Interesting changes...... still not really enough to make HAV real tanks.
Will there ever be a time in this game when the round I fire from my HAV turret explodes with full AoE effect?
True, I have to ask, how would a giant explosion able to damage vehicles be in any way sort of balanced? People would just blap once and scurry into the redline to wait out the cooldown. I doubt we will see anything with a splash radius larger than 7m.
I can see tanks working better if we slowed them down and greatly reduced their acceleration, but any kind of giant explosion is going to be OP in almost all contexts.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
26
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Posted - 2015.09.25 03:21:00 -
[333] - Quote
just clearing up some things
Commando will hit for be 270, after the reduction to melee damage myofibs, should be comparable as before. That was not intended to be reduced.
Gallente Assault ROF bonus only applies to Assault Rifles (the whole family) and is now 3% per level, for a 15% total.
I hear the nade concerns, and we will see how it pans out.
I stand fully by the whole HAV/AV reasoning in the OP. Assault Swarm launchers are still on the table for being an Anti Air platform.
The plan for Melee was to be effective, especially on the Weak Spots but the code for Melee Damage vs Nova Knives is a bit blurred, looking into it. I will also share a few screenshots on the weak spots.
People who complain about Scrambler Hipfire kick going from 0.025 to 0.1 as "OMG 400% nerf" need to play the game. This is intended to stop spam and nothing else. Currently the 0.025 is so little it literally does nothing. There is no kick. After a lot of testing, the number is balanced to be able to charge and then fire calmly. Spamming as fast as you can will overheat within a few shots, but a calm follow up will not.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Minty Essence
DUST University
Ivy League
2
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Posted - 2015.09.25 03:22:00 -
[334] - Quote
Goddamit!
>Just started the game a few weeks ago
>Go all out on Amarr Assault because Amarr Victor
>Just unlocked the Vizam Scrambler Rifle today
>See this... |
XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
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Posted - 2015.09.25 03:23:00 -
[335] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:just clearing up some things
Commando will hit for be 270, after the reduction to melee damage myofibs, should be comparable as before. That was not intended to be reduced.
Gallente Assault ROF bonus only applies to Assault Rifles (the whole family) and is now 3% per level, for a 15% total.
I hear the nade concerns, and we will see how it pans out.
I stand fully by the whole HAV/AV reasoning in the OP. Assault Swarm launchers are still on the table for being an Anti Air platform.
The plan for Melee was to be effective, especially on the Weak Spots but the code for Melee Damage vs Nova Knives is a bit blurred, looking into it. I will also share a few screenshots on the weak spots.
People who complain about Scrambler Hipfire kick going from 0.025 to 0.1 as "OMG 400% nerf" need to play the game. This is intended to stop spam and nothing else. Currently the 0.025 is so little it literally does nothing. There is no kick. After a lot of testing, the number is balanced to be able to charge and then fire calmly. Spamming as fast as you can will overheat within a few shots, but a calm follow up will not.
Praise the heavens it's senpai Rattati!!!!
Pl0x notice me senpai
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
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Posted - 2015.09.25 03:24:00 -
[336] - Quote
Minty Essence wrote:Goddamit!
>Just started the game a few weeks ago
>Go all out on Amarr Assault because Amarr Victor
>Just unlocked the Vizam Scrambler Rifle today
>See this...
Don't worry, it will still be effective at hip fire at least.
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
3
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Posted - 2015.09.25 03:25:00 -
[337] - Quote
Derrith Erador wrote:Well, I hate to bring up old crap, but seeing as I'm shameless and the Devs seem to finally be showing the ADS some love, I may as well ask.
Since hotfix delta, we had our ROF reduced significantly to 3%. In a recent PC, I finally caved and decided to try a rocket on an incubus. I have Python and incubus maxed out, and noticed no ROF difference.
This wouldn't be so frustrating if the SP required to get it maxed out wasn't so monumentally high. My question is will there be any plans to make the SP we pilots sunk into these skills worth it? Perhaps an added minor benefit, or a slightly better ROF?
A lot of pilots would appreciate more knowledge on this. Originally it's on page 5.
99% of what Derrith says is stupidity. -D3lta Blitzkrieg
Oh yeah?! Well, I love redheads.
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Minty Essence
DUST University
Ivy League
2
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Posted - 2015.09.25 03:26:00 -
[338] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Minty Essence wrote:Goddamit!
>Just started the game a few weeks ago
>Go all out on Amarr Assault because Amarr Victor
>Just unlocked the Vizam Scrambler Rifle today
>See this... Don't worry, it will still be effective at hip fire at least.
I hope so, will just make those nasty 1v1 situations much harder as I won't be able to land enough shots to kill without overheating. Think I'll skill up SMGs to get the strong armour damage so I can swap out once the shields are broken. |
XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
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Posted - 2015.09.25 03:27:00 -
[339] - Quote
Minty Essence wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Minty Essence wrote:Goddamit!
>Just started the game a few weeks ago
>Go all out on Amarr Assault because Amarr Victor
>Just unlocked the Vizam Scrambler Rifle today
>See this... Don't worry, it will still be effective at hip fire at least. I hope so, will just make those nasty 1v1 situations much harder as I won't be able to land enough shots to kill without overheating. Think I'll skill up SMGs to get the strong armour damage so I can swap out once the shields are broken.
Good idea, lower the targets health as low as possible then spray him a little bit with the smg. Works 90% of the time.
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 03:31:00 -
[340] - Quote
RedPencil wrote:Rising the cost of swarm and sp require isn't a problem at all as I already post in the earlier post. But before you compare that cost, would it be fare to ask Rat to show the lost number of both side first?
Certainly, I'd be very interested in those stats. But as I mentioned, would Rattati be making these changes if he felt that the ADS was overpowered vs Swarms? We've had ample examples of Rattati's modus operandi: find out what is under/over performing and change it and/or the things affecting it to bring it up/knock it down to par.
RedPencil wrote:Surrounding awareness is require in any role. ADS may encounter invisible swarm, but you also have Hardener and AFB to protect and bring you out. What about swarmer? What do they have?
Swarmer has cover. Dropships can have cover, but aerial cover is decidedly lacking, for the most part, and in an engagement between a Swarmer and an ADS the ADS will rarely ever be concealed - partly, as in a firefight - like a Swarmer can/will be. Then consider that a small missile has a 2.5m radius (that's a little bit larger than a Compact Nanohive's AOE, roughly) and must impact to not hit the cover, just like infantry vs infantry fire must. A Swarm does need to be concerned by cover, but in practice an ADS can utilise cover not nearly to the same degree as an infantrymerc can - that's perfectly reasonable, the issue stems from the complete lack of ability to avoid being hit by Swarms. You can dodge an FG blast with radical movement or good timing, but nothing short of outright flight (as in running away) or hugging a building closer than a lover will avoid a volley of Swarms.
RedPencil wrote:"A box that takes up half your screen do all of the work" How about we convert assault swarm to work as missile turrets?
I'm not against the idea, but I can't see converting Assault Swarms only being of any use - people would just use regular Swarms because they'd be better by a million miles. Read the thread I linked to in my last post; Juno's idea there has a lot of merit by keeping some of the core aspects of the Swarm (the lock-on element) without entirely removing aim from the equation.
RedPencil wrote:Have you considering things or roles you could do with ADS compare to swarmer or AV player?
Have you considering firepower between those two?
Such as, outright slaying and transportation? Because that's pretty much it. and the transportation element is so poorly handled in Dust it's ridiculous.
And are you referring to the difference in firepower? Because in an anti-vehicle capacity the Swarms are a notch above the ADS, while the ADS has a huge advantage vs infantry (assuming non-Commando and Small Missiles.)
What's your point? The ADS is a vehicle and as such possesses relatively high firepower for an individual whereas the Swarm is specifically sacrificing AP firepower for AV potential.
RedPencil wrote:With 16 (1ADS + 15 mercs) vs 16 (2-4 AV + 12-14 mercs), what is the odds of team win?
Fact, It is next to impossible for AV to 1-1 ADS and beat it.
That is a ridiculous equation: there are far too many factors to account for such as what kind of rooftops are the available, what kind of aerial obstructions there are to hide behind/get in the way and what kind of access the ADS has to the main fighting areas. Is it in the Caldari Production Facility? If yes then the ADSs mobility is vastly reduced making it a huge and easy target for AV, simultaneously the CPF gives a lot of cover for infantry to use. Or are we in an open field, where the ADS has far more power? Your question is ridiculously simplistic and impossible to answer.
As for the second statement, I find it lacking in definition: by 'beat' do you mean destroy? Do you mean get more WP than? Do you mean drive it off without killing anyone/many? By some metrics the AV will almost always win: a Swarm will almost always drive an ADS away before it can do much, but in a wide area and ADS will often get a kill or two before being killed. Again, you lack sufficient definition to provide precise answers to, and the question is pretty simplistic - there are many factors that go into a one-on-one that can massively change the outcome: is there cover for either side; is there a small platform for the Swarmer to stand on to make it harder for the ADS to splash them; is there obscuring terrain to make Swarms impact upon?
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 03:32:00 -
[341] - Quote
RedPencil wrote:If you think that we may not understand the other's issues, then we need a solid evident to show and prove the current state before claim to nerf something.
To Be honest, Rat should explain and show a solid number to the community.
I wholeheartedly agree. That said, as I said above, I do feel that we know how Rattati operates to extrapolate that he is sufficiently satisfied with the notion that Swarms are overpowered vs ADSs, hence why he said as much in his OP:
CCP Rattati wrote:3.Dropships are ok, Caldari need a PG buff (not in this hotfix) but Swarms are too strong
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.25 03:36:00 -
[342] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:ADSs being OP is entirely debatable. What constitutes being OP? KDR? ISK destroyed per death?
The problem is, it was ALL OF THE ABOVE before the nerf. ADS was incredibly ISK efficient. I'm willing to bet it still is, but the only way we'll know is if Rattati decides to share the numbers.
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:I just find that Soraya is unnecessarily militant about V/AV changes, and others like the one I was responding to earlier seem to feel that most ADS pilots want a free ride, which isn't the case.
It's hard to not think pilots just want a free ride when Judge thought a KDR of 50 was "about right", and most of the dropship pilots in the community SUPPORTED HIM! And from what I've seen, the ADS is the most overpowered class in the entire game, and not enough has been done. So when people are pushing buffs for the ADS, I do feel that that is rightly insane.
But I'm not even all that picky. I am okay with the turning radius change. That's fine, I'm glad there's actual gameplay potential in evading swarms. I'm okay with, as I mentioned, even drastically lowering the distance swarms chase you. From 400m down to less than 300m, so that if you're running from swarms, you can reasonably do so. But the lock-on range is pitifully low, I have to spend a minute just trying to find a spot where I can actually lock a dropship, but it moves two seconds later, and then I can't do jack again, much less fire a second volley if I got one off at all, the proposed will now bring it to HALF the range of the forge gun, and the forge gun was, to begin with, a far superior weapon.
I don't even understand why dropship pilots are so unreasonably militant about swarms, and unwilling to recognize that the only time they get killed by swarms, is when they were getting forge gunned at the same time. The arguments around swarms are complete nonsense, and I feel that yeah, dropships are just trying to prevent another viable aerial AV method from existing.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
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Posted - 2015.09.25 03:38:00 -
[343] - Quote
I just completely ignored everything you said after you stated "ADSs are incredibly isk efficient"
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
733
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Posted - 2015.09.25 03:39:00 -
[344] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:I just completely ignored everything you said after you stated "ADSs are incredibly isk efficient"
^
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
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Posted - 2015.09.25 03:43:00 -
[345] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon?
Allow me to be abundantly clear as the token AV guy on the CPM on my position.
It will be a cold day in hell before I support making a self-guiding, lock-on, fire-and-forget weapon superior to every other weapon in it's class regardless of any real or perceived limitation.
It is simply not going to happen.
I will gleefully support making the plasma cannon or even a flaylock pistol being so before i will support making a fire and forget lock on weapon "best in class."
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
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Posted - 2015.09.25 03:44:00 -
[346] - Quote
Soraya, the type of nerf you are suggesting is literally the equivalent of giving logis the health of scouts, making heavies only carry two sidearms, or making so nanohives only replenish one clip.
There's a nerf, and then there's this, you completely want the ADS to be almost unviable in any situation (which it already almost is).
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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Vell0cet
OSG Planetary Operations
3
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Posted - 2015.09.25 03:47:00 -
[347] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
Gallente Assault ROF bonus only applies to Assault Rifles (the whole family) and is now 3% per level, for a 15% total.
I'm glad the Gallente Assault is finally getting a great bonus. Generally I'm against stuff that lowers the TTK (Amarr/Minmatar Assault bonuses were about extending the time before overheating/reloading and didn't affect TTK), but 15% seems pretty reasonable, especially since blasters have the gimped range and really should be the most lethal of the AR's up close. As always, I'm sure you''re going to keep a close eye on the stats. I have faith in your methods--they've worked well in the past.
I'm glad to see that shields are getting some attention. I think having both styles of tanking being viable and fun is critical to get right. Any chance for a shield rep tool? It's important to establish parity/balance.
Lastly, I'd love to see resistance modules for shields and armor. You could fit to resist a specific damage type, or fit a rainbow resist that would cover all resistances for a much smaller amount. This would allow players to build fits that counter specific threats and could reduce any future FOTM issues.
Best PvE idea ever!
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Daddrobit
You Can Call Me Daddy
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 03:51:00 -
[348] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:just clearing up some things
Gallente Assault ROF bonus only applies to Assault Rifles (the whole family) and is now 3% per level, for a 15% total.
Holy ****, that was supposed to be a 25% increase at level 5?
Oh yes....
Even at 15% I'm getting 3X more than I figured was reasonable. So the new DPS increases will look as the following.
~62 for basic
~65 for advanced
~68 for proto
~70 for krins
~79 for balacs
~84 for kalentes
Hnggggggggg....
I may plug my PS3 back in for this.
O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
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Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
18
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Posted - 2015.09.25 04:03:00 -
[349] - Quote
Daddrobit wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:just clearing up some things
Gallente Assault ROF bonus only applies to Assault Rifles (the whole family) and is now 3% per level, for a 15% total.
I may plug my PS3 back in for this.
This is going to be hilarious.
I give it two weeks before it gets nerfed.
Ripley Riley:
> Post Hotfix Foxour Gallente Assault:
> DakkadakkadakkadakkaFREEDOMdakkadakka
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 04:09:00 -
[350] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:The problem is, it was ALL OF THE ABOVE before the nerf. ADS was incredibly ISK efficient. I'm willing to bet it still is, but the only way we'll know is if Rattati decides to share the numbers.
t's hard to not think pilots just want a free ride when Judge thought a KDR of 50 was "about right", and most of the dropship pilots in the community SUPPORTED HIM! And from what I've seen, the ADS is the most overpowered class in the entire game, and not enough has been done. So when people are pushing buffs for the ADS, I do feel that that is rightly insane.
Except that Judge wasn't talking about a 50KDR being 'fine', it was that the only way to remain ISK positive was to have a 50KDR (because at the time they cost so much more): it was not that a 50KDR is fine for ADS and for no one else, it was that that was the benchmark for ADS being a self-sustaining role like any other.
Soraya Xel wrote:But I'm not even all that picky. I am okay with the turning radius change. That's fine, I'm glad there's actual gameplay potential in evading swarms. I'm okay with, as I mentioned, even drastically lowering the distance swarms chase you. From 400m down to less than 300m, so that if you're running from swarms, you can reasonably do so. But the lock-on range is pitifully low, I have to spend a minute just trying to find a spot where I can actually lock a dropship, but it moves two seconds later, and then I can't do jack again, much less fire a second volley if I got one off at all, the proposed will now bring it to HALF the range of the forge gun, and the forge gun was, to begin with, a far superior weapon.
I still remember when Swarms locked on at 400m, it was ridiculous. The range was reduced to 175m so that they couldn't affect entire maps from anywhere. I do, occasionally (used to be more often), still use Swarms and the 175 is fine for a standard approaching engagement (ie, one where you're going to a point) but it's hard to use incidentally which to me seems not unreasonable. It can seriously affect a local area, but is a short ranged/far reaching tool rather than the old long ranged/far reaching tool it used to be.
I don't disagree with the notion of a range buff, but I do feel strongly about it bring such a simple weapon to wield.
Soraya Xel wrote:I don't even understand why dropship pilots are so unreasonably militant about swarms, and unwilling to recognize that the only time they get killed by swarms, is when they were getting forge gunned at the same time. The arguments around swarms are complete nonsense, and I feel that yeah, dropships are just trying to prevent another viable aerial AV method from existing.
I've said it before that I'm, personally, fine with being shot down and with that situation arising more because of changes. But the biggest issue I have, and that I believe most ADS pilots have, with Swarms is the enormous gal in effort that they require to operate effectively.
A Forge Gun can reach further (though at ranges beyond a Swarm's lock-on it becomes far harder to land sustained hits on any vehicle) and hit harder per shot, but the Forge Gun sacrifices movement speed, requires a specific role and cannot be supported by other roles' benefits (the second light of a Commando; the speed and infantry-evading of the Scout, etc.)
A Swarm can be used on, literally, any suit in the game and requires minimal effort to reap a fairly large effect. The ADS is not an easy vehicle to pilot - as far as any are easy - and far harder to get effective use out of compared to the incredibly simple and easy usage of the Swarm that then cannot be evaded except by total flight from the AO or killing the wielder. I've linked to Juno's thread a million times: a Swarm that operates like that would be totally fine by me, even with the necessary speed and damage changes that would need to accompany it. Why? Because it has substantial and significant elements of skill in its operation that the current version of Swarm Launchers simply does not.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
785
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Posted - 2015.09.25 04:23:00 -
[351] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Asad Thahab-Jabal wrote:Rattati,
Is the new Gallente and Caldari dropsuit command bonuses replacing the current bonuses?
Or are they in addition to the current bonuses? in addition
For assault??? OMG!!!!! Damn you Rattati you're gonna make me respec back into Gallente Assault and AR!! And Magsec!!!
Cal Assault, my favorite suit, is gonna BEAST!!!
Will the Ion Pistol benefit from the new bonus? Please say yes! It needs the exact same help ARs do. OMG I'd LOVE for the Ion Pistol to be good!! It's really my favorite weapon in the game just aesthetic and feel wise. |
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
26
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 04:25:00 -
[352] - Quote
Gallente HAV Weak Spot
Caldari HAV Weak Spot
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
|
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 04:27:00 -
[353] - Quote
Rattati, quick question, will the 100% nova knife efficiency apply to installations as well? Or only vehicles?
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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One Eyed King
Nos Nothi
12
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 04:27:00 -
[354] - Quote
I feel like that is just True's version of ****.
Former CEO of the Land of the BIind.
Any double entendre is unintended I assure you.
|
XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 04:28:00 -
[355] - Quote
Also, don't the HAVs also have weakspots on the sides too?
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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RedPencil
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
222
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 04:29:00 -
[356] - Quote
Since Rat still stand on AV is OP and nothing will change his mind. I just gonna put my swarm down and walk away even though I still disagree.
Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 04:29:00 -
[357] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:I feel like that is just True's version of pornography.
Nah, his would be a picture of the Empress doing something not so nice to a minmatar slave.
AVERT YOUR EYES!
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Commander Noctus
Gallente Loyalist
278
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 04:33:00 -
[358] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:One Eyed King wrote:I feel like that is just True's version of pornography. Nah, his would be a picture of the Empress doing something not so nice to a minmatar slave.
Too bad she's space dust now.
Gallente User since Jan. 28th, 2013. Touched on every Gallente role since.
|
Cat Merc
Negative-Feedback.
Negative-Feedback
18
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 04:36:00 -
[359] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:I feel like that is just True's version of pornography.
So would Amarr HAV's count as German dungeon porn?
Ripley Riley:
> Post Hotfix Foxour Gallente Assault:
> DakkadakkadakkadakkaFREEDOMdakkadakka
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 04:38:00 -
[360] - Quote
inb4 Ratman deletes all our posts
AVERT YOUR EYES!
|
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DDx77
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
386
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 05:24:00 -
[361] - Quote
Does the magsec receive the kick reduction bonus as well? (Please God....yessss?)
The Scrambler Rifle looks like it's being punished for its sins like the Rail Rifle was. The major increase in kick may be overkill
any concerns on how this will affect the Amarr assault?
I am now terrified of ALL grenades......I don't know if I should be but I am
The hated Bolt pistol.....hated b/c of the crazy AA. I thought the ROF is fine as is. It's pretty damn slow....
Overall outstanding job, very very very excited and cant wait for this to drop! |
Ironmans Fist
Dead Man's Game
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 06:19:00 -
[362] - Quote
nobody cares about the melee damage but when do you make the stupid jumping stop?
Steht ein Pils im Wald, kommt der Iron und trinkts aus.
|
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 06:24:00 -
[363] - Quote
Only on page 15, but can I just say that hitting a moving vehicle at range with a forge does take skill. You do have to lead your target, and hitting a dropship is actually quite difficult. Though I would t say it's too difficult, considering the damage you can do. Not easy though. |
james jared
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
150
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 06:31:00 -
[364] - Quote
Will all mass drivers get 100% damage to vehicles or just the breach??? |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 06:34:00 -
[365] - Quote
james jared wrote:Will all mass drivers get 100% damage to vehicles or just the breach???
I believe all.
Flaylocks too.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Demandred Moores
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
123
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 06:56:00 -
[366] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Demandred Moores wrote:some valid points here. But my ads is still op, and av loses more than me before they take me out. It's not so bad as you make it seem. #foreverpython
Also a fully fit python is like 100 - 150k more than a minmando please you're giving ads pilots a bad name. Stop. ADSs being OP is entirely debatable. What constitutes being OP? KDR? ISK destroyed per death? That's a legitimate question I'm asking: what makes the ADS specifically OP? Because if it's something measurable then surely Rattati wouldn't be making changes to ease the life of the ADS such as the proposed FoxFour changes, right? I don't always fly, in fact I often ground pound. I mostly use my PLC and that can scare away ADSs fine for the most part (it's hard to hit them, but one solid hit and they're usually running) whereas my ADV Swarms on a STD suit costs minimal ISK and can put the hurt on any but the most hardened ADS. And that's kinda the thing: anecdotally, a single Wiyrkomi can seriously frighten even my double hardened Pythons - that Wiyrkomi does not need to be mounted on a fully PRO fit MinCom (orsoon to be CalCom) it can be on a STD MinCom and run to about 60k ISK with PRO damage mods while providing top-tier firepower and being plenty able to defend itself against infantry. Is that OP? I don't think so, but I do feel that vehicles need a serious overhaul more than Hotfix tweaks to really get a proper balance going. While they cost an arm and a leg to operate they need to have that much of an impact on the battlefield, or else they aren't worth operating - surely it'd be better to make them less expensive and less effective simultaneously, thereby making them more interesting to actually see on the field. Well, in my opinion that's the case. As for the cost,a fully fit ADS will cost around 300-400k; a fully fit PRO dropsuit will cost 120-200ish, depending on the suit. But as I also mentioned above, an AV suit doesn't need to be PRO to take on an ADS. A STD MinCom with Combat Rifle (or CalCom with ARR after FoxFour) and a Wiyrkomi will cost roughly 40-60k, depending on how it's fit/what tiers are used for the modules, etc. That's not dirt cheap but it's significantly less expensive than an ADS and threatens it to nearly the same degree as a fully PRO suit does,only sacrificing a small amount of damage by not stacking up as many damage mods as possible. Whereas on the flip side,the minimum cost of an ADSis roughly 250k with just STD mods and a single turret. Again, not entirely unreasonable, but then there's a large disparity with the power/cost ratio of the two. But yeah it's not all bad for the ADS, but the situation is overall not good and is definitely not a healthy balance. I just find that Soraya is unnecessarily militant about V/AV changes, and others like the one I was responding to earlier seem to feel that most ADS pilots want a free ride, which isn't the case.
I stopped reading at double hardened python lmao. Gg |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 06:58:00 -
[367] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
People who complain about Scrambler Hipfire kick going from 0.025 to 0.1 as "OMG 400% nerf" need to play the game. This is intended to stop spam and nothing else. Currently the 0.025 is so little it literally does nothing. There is no kick. After a lot of testing, the number is balanced to be able to charge and then fire calmly. Spamming as fast as you can will overheat within a few shots, but a calm follow up will not.
So it's just an increase in hipfire kick? That's good, because the current ads kick is a factor. And I said it's a 400% kick increase, which it is, not a 400% nerf to scramblers in general. But I guess it's not that much since the hipfire kick is low to start with.
I trust your testing, it will be interesting to try out. |
Demandred Moores
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
123
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 07:07:00 -
[368] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:ADSs being OP is entirely debatable. What constitutes being OP? KDR? ISK destroyed per death? The problem is, it was ALL OF THE ABOVE before the nerf. ADS was incredibly ISK efficient. I'm willing to bet it still is, but the only way we'll know is if Rattati decides to share the numbers. Kallas Hallytyr wrote:I just find that Soraya is unnecessarily militant about V/AV changes, and others like the one I was responding to earlier seem to feel that most ADS pilots want a free ride, which isn't the case. It's hard to not think pilots just want a free ride when Judge thought a KDR of 50 was "about right", and most of the dropship pilots in the community SUPPORTED HIM! And from what I've seen, the ADS is the most overpowered class in the entire game, and not enough has been done. So when people are pushing buffs for the ADS, I do feel that that is rightly insane. But I'm not even all that picky. I am okay with the turning radius change. That's fine, I'm glad there's actual gameplay potential in evading swarms. I'm okay with, as I mentioned, even drastically lowering the distance swarms chase you. From 400m down to less than 300m, so that if you're running from swarms, you can reasonably do so. But the lock-on range is pitifully low, I have to spend a minute just trying to find a spot where I can actually lock a dropship, but it moves two seconds later, and then I can't do jack again, much less fire a second volley if I got one off at all, the proposed will now bring it to HALF the range of the forge gun, and the forge gun was, to begin with, a far superior weapon. I don't even understand why dropship pilots are so unreasonably militant about swarms, and unwilling to recognize that the only time they get killed by swarms, is when they were getting forge gunned at the same time. The arguments around swarms are complete nonsense, and I feel that yeah, dropships are just trying to prevent another viable aerial AV method from existing.
While I stated I think the ads is in a good place, and ads is my main role, this guy is just wrong. Swarms as are are simply op. Forge is a terrible anti air weapon good only for anvil over watch on the production facility. |
IAmDuncanIdaho II
Nos Nothi
4
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 07:43:00 -
[369] - Quote
Bremen van Equis wrote:IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:Thank you for keeping an AV role for the Minmando. Please may I have my Swarm Launcher tree SP back? :-o
You can have all your swarm launcher SP back after you deduct the SP you got using it to farm WP. Deal? ;)
lol - farm WP? With a schwarma launcher? Nah I use my amarr logi for that ;-)
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Mortedeamor wrote:last i checked i was saying nade spam is an issue i dont give a flying kitten what your opinion on mds is lol
and holding up the fact that min scout gets popped by all grenades there for nade damage buff has no negative impact is illogical you cant claim something has no impact on everything just because it doesnt impact one thing.
im calling it nade spam qq is the future of dust No, I'm saying it's not an issue because I never stay in one place for more than a second so grenades are completely irrelavent to me.
Blaze, core nades being OP is a fairly common opinion I think. I don't see how it doesn't affect you - how are you not caught in its blast radius at random, even if you are always moving?
I run scout a lot, and I die to nades plenty, regardless of whether I've stayed in one place or not.
Even if it's a non-issue for you, you must be one of the few. If that's the case, why do you care about what happens to them? You're spending a lot of time arguing the toss about something that is irrelevant to you.
I'm with Morte on this one - Nade 514 coming up ;-)
[edit]
And as others have said - progressing the nades around the ADV variants might've been prudent
This post has been liked by XxBlazikenxX
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shanatak
Prima Gallicus
23
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 07:45:00 -
[370] - Quote
I think the People who are crying about the little buff of ads and the nerf of swarms just never try to fly.
Pilot need a little bit of loves and some players hate that.
It s crazy how some players don t want equitability. |
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Rabbit C515
Die Valkyrja
33
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 07:58:00 -
[371] - Quote
I would like to suggest that while increasing the heat cost of the charge, please increase the damage multiplier of charge shot.
As :
1. scrambler rifle consecutive shots kick increase, follow up shots will not be that accurate. More time for enemy to react / easy to overheat and screw up.
2. -20% speed when holding charge. You now are more focus to your target and less likely react to surrounding.
That mean charge shot now require more skill to handle and use less in more cases.
So please Rattati increase the damage multiplier of charge shot to reward those charge shot players who are willing to specialize in this combat style. |
TooMany Names AlreadyTaken
Going for the gold
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 08:09:00 -
[372] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:james jared wrote:Will all mass drivers get 100% damage to vehicles or just the breach??? I believe all. Flaylocks too.
This means that the Breach Flaylock will FINALLY have a use as a proper AV sidearm.
My sweet summer is gone.
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Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 08:32:00 -
[373] - Quote
Enough as been said about grenades and I think Rattati noticed that they will be OP af if he releases those numbers.
Now I want to talk about assaults changes.
Cal and Gal are getting a great and needed buff (tho I still don't know if gal is 5% per level or total).
Minmatar is also getting a huge shield buff (almost equivalent to the CalAss).
But what about the Amarr Assault ? Nothing. Worse ! The ScR is getting seriously over-nerfed ! I swear, no one will ever use an Amarr assault with these changes.
The overheat increase is too much, the kick increase is re-tarded, and the "slowing you when charging" will make the amarr assault even more vulnerable to grenades (which gets a crazy over-buff).
Something I thought you'd have understand is that you dont buff something by nerfing another. The ScR just needs to deal less damage on shields and nothing else. You're simply killing the weapon with those changes.
Bring your daughter... TO THE SLAUGHTER !
- Sequal Rise
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Nirwanda Vaughns
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 08:35:00 -
[374] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:I stand fully by the whole HAV/AV reasoning in the OP. Assault Swarm launchers are still on the table for being an Anti Air platform.
how about the specialization skills i've mentioned in order to bring some balance to true AV'ers?
15-25m increase per level with a high training multiplier would give the edge for peopel who are true AV users and its a good SP sink for those of us that have been around for a while.
Having Assault Swarms as dedicated anti-air would be nice, perhaps lower damage but longer lock range of say 300m should help scare the odd missile spamming python away for a minute or so
Please fix my C-II hitpoints!!
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ID G4f
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
9
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 08:37:00 -
[375] - Quote
I think it's funny how much complaining the swarms nerf is getting, while the pilots now have to compete with a whole new group of av weapons. Very little complaining from that. Who really want's a free ride? Honestly after the update i will probably spec away from tanks all together, i doubt the shield buff's will be enough to offset the new potential av damage on the field at any given time. I will probably keep my dropships because flying is fun even if you end with 0wp because you have to stay in the clouds to live. But as the pilots dwindle and people stop using tanks out of the redline if at all, the stats will point towards a buff hopefully. I also remember how happy i was when i first learned knives did substantial damage to vehicles i threw a jump suit together and waited, cloaked, for ads to swing in close to jump on the roof and knifed it till i blew it up... i can't wait to try it now that the damage will be higher. LoL. Think i'm going to focus into the ass suits since they seem to be better then commando's in every way now. And have the potential to be either as tough as a commando or as fast as a scout. i will give a few weeks after the update to see if they are as op as they seem to be getting. i'm verrrrrrrry happy to see the changes & i know you pick nerf's /buff's based on what most people use (in pc mostly i think) compared to what people don't use at all. So long run it'll all even out. I have faith that this hotfix will lead to even greater ones.
o7
85mil sp and counting
ID's Escrow - trade safe
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ID G4f
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
10
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 08:55:00 -
[376] - Quote
Also is there any eta on this update? I know it's been asked alot, since i read every post. So the question might seem redundant. But i just wonder if i have time to store up some sp.
85mil sp and counting
ID's Escrow - trade safe
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
G0DS AM0NG MEN
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 08:59:00 -
[377] - Quote
Minty Essence wrote:Goddamit!
>Just started the game a few weeks ago
>Go all out on Amarr Assault because Amarr Victor
>Just unlocked the Vizam Scrambler Rifle today
>See this...
>see this
>laugh
>laugh harder
it's still useful.
Closed beta vet.
Lurk mode is engaged.
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jerrmy12 kahoalii
G0DS AM0NG MEN
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 09:07:00 -
[378] - Quote
One Eyed King wrote:I feel like that is just True's version of pornography.
i want to shoot my breach forgegun up the madrugar's back side
Closed beta vet.
Lurk mode is engaged.
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Asad Thahab-Jabal
Incorruptibles
161
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 10:50:00 -
[379] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Gallente HAV Weak Spot
[img]http://puu.sh/kniol/05e3be0da6.jpg[/img]
Caldari HAV Weak Spot
[img]http://puu.sh/knisv/827ef28d16.jpg[/img] Right in the b-hole. Got it.
Ripley Riley is on safari until Oct 9th. I will represent him until he returns.
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Asad Thahab-Jabal
Incorruptibles
161
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 10:53:00 -
[380] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:I just completely ignored everything you said after you stated "ADSs are incredibly isk efficient" Which is funny, because he said "was". "ADS was incredibly ISK efficient."
Then goes on to say they still might be, but isn't sure.
Train reading comprehension V asap.
Breakin Stuff wrote:I will gleefully support making the plasma cannon or even a flaylock pistol being so before i will support making a fire and forget lock on weapon "best in class." AV doesn't want it to be "best in class" we want it to "not be absolute dribbleshit". The lock on range reduction on the table is pushing the swarm launchers into that category.
Ripley Riley is on safari until Oct 9th. I will represent him until he returns.
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ID G4f
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
10
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 11:48:00 -
[381] - Quote
I honestly think lock on should be removed from swarm launcher; or (a second less disirable option) added to large/small missile turrets. They are supposed to be the same weapon tech, & this was the original idea from what i understand. although i think removing lock on from this game is a far better idea. I also would like to see emplacement turrets treat infantry and vehicles equil. If infantry have to shoot them for the ai to attack back, same should be for vehicles. there is not alot of equality between vehicles and dropsuits, if they are to be equil, let them cost the same & let us deploy in them without a dropsuit, we can't escape death & our losses are on equil ground with dropsuits.
85mil sp and counting
ID's Escrow - trade safe
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Regnier Feros
Pielords
778
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 11:49:00 -
[382] - Quote
Sequal's Back wrote:Enough as been said about grenades and I think Rattati noticed that they will be OP af if he releases those numbers.
Now I want to talk about assaults changes.
Cal and Gal are getting a great and needed buff (tho I still don't know if gal is 5% per level or total).
Minmatar is also getting a huge shield buff (almost equivalent to the CalAss).
But what about the Amarr Assault ? Nothing. Worse ! The ScR is getting seriously over-nerfed ! I swear, no one will ever use an Amarr assault with these changes.
The overheat increase is too much, the kick increase is re-tarded, and the "slowing you when charging" will make the amarr assault even more vulnerable to grenades (which gets a crazy over-buff).
Something I thought you'd have understand is that you dont buff something by nerfing another. The ScR just needs to deal less damage on shields and nothing else. You're simply killing the weapon with those changes.
Assault scrambler <3
I want to try the new vanilla scrambler on the mando
LongLiveQueenZarZar
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 12:02:00 -
[383] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Soraya, the type of nerf you are suggesting is literally the equivalent of giving logis the health of scouts, making heavies only carry two sidearms, or making so nanohives only replenish one clip.
There's a nerf, and then there's this, you completely want the ADS to be almost unviable in any situation (which it already almost is).
False. I'm not promoting nerfing dropships in this thread.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.25 12:03:00 -
[384] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:I just completely ignored everything you said after you stated "ADSs are incredibly isk efficient"
That's your ignorance.,not mine.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.25 12:07:00 -
[385] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Except that Judge wasn't talking about a 50KDR being 'fine', it was that the only way to remain ISK positive was to have a 50KDR (because at the time they cost so much more): it was not that a 50KDR is fine for ADS and for no one else, it was that that was the benchmark for ADS being a self-sustaining role like any other.
Also complete bull, because at 50 KDR average, Judge made a killing off every derpship he flew. Most. Profitable. Fit. Ever.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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ID G4f
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
10
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 12:38:00 -
[386] - Quote
dropships isk efficient? Maybe when the rof was broken, certainly not anymore for all but the best of pilots, maybe after the update. We will see.
85mil sp and counting
ID's Escrow - trade safe
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
737
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 12:38:00 -
[387] - Quote
Did the math on my calass for post foxfour numbers...
Just
70sps
.01-.03d
.05-.06dd
Add a sexy skill boost to my rifle, plus the sexmag......
DEATH TO THE REBEL SCUM!
(And that's without calc on the mod changes and maybe squeezing a dm or something now)
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
655
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 12:46:00 -
[388] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Gallente HAV Weak Spot
[img]http://puu.sh/kniol/05e3be0da6.jpg[/img]
Caldari HAV Weak Spot
[img]http://puu.sh/knisv/827ef28d16.jpg[/img]
OMG! Was that fuel cell assembly ALWAYS sitting there like that, waving at us and smiling? Or did the devs do some cool redesigning of the vehicle for this Hotfix? This moment may qualify as "new vehicle design", introduced to the game!
(...either way, yes I'm glad our Dropships don't have, err um something like THAT stuck up inside our---
--er, I mean, there's no crack between our--
Well, uh, what I'm trying to say is...
Gosh, you know what I mean! Having red mercs running around the back of your DS trying to get a round up,-- I mean IN that--- well, it would be mighty uncomfortable for a dropship. ....oh )
Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne...
No story can have life without writers and publishers.
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ID G4f
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
10
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 12:50:00 -
[389] - Quote
CELESTA AUNGM wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Gallente HAV Weak Spot
[img]http://puu.sh/kniol/05e3be0da6.jpg[/img]
Caldari HAV Weak Spot
[img]http://puu.sh/knisv/827ef28d16.jpg[/img] OMG! Was that fuel cell assembly ALWAYS sitting there like that, waving at us and smiling? Or did the devs do some cool redesigning of the vehicle for this Hotfix? This moment may qualify as "new vehicle design", introduced to the game! (...either way, yes I'm glad our Dropships don't have, err um something like THAT stuck up inside our--- --er, I mean, there's no crack between our-- Well, uh, what I'm trying to say is... Gosh, you know what I mean! Having red mercs running around the back of your DS trying to get a round up,-- I mean IN that--- well, it would be mighty uncomfortable for a dropship. ....oh )
It has always there, and has always been a crit damage zone. Apparently the crit damage zone is just getting bigger from what i understand.
85mil sp and counting
ID's Escrow - trade safe
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
737
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 12:52:00 -
[390] - Quote
ID G4f wrote:CELESTA AUNGM wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Gallente HAV Weak Spot
[img]http://puu.sh/kniol/05e3be0da6.jpg[/img]
Caldari HAV Weak Spot
[img]http://puu.sh/knisv/827ef28d16.jpg[/img] OMG! Was that fuel cell assembly ALWAYS sitting there like that, waving at us and smiling? Or did the devs do some cool redesigning of the vehicle for this Hotfix? This moment may qualify as "new vehicle design", introduced to the game! (...either way, yes I'm glad our Dropships don't have, err um something like THAT stuck up inside our--- --er, I mean, there's no crack between our-- Well, uh, what I'm trying to say is... Gosh, you know what I mean! Having red mercs running around the back of your DS trying to get a round up,-- I mean IN that--- well, it would be mighty uncomfortable for a dropship. ....oh ) It has always there, and has always been a crit damage zone. Apparently the crit damage zone is just getting bigger from what i understand.
Dropships weak points are those huge thrusters on the back that rotate. I think... Idk that's where I aim lol
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
737
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 12:54:00 -
[391] - Quote
Reporting this thread for being a CCP/CPM likefarm.
(Proceeds to like everything they posted)
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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ID G4f
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
10
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Posted - 2015.09.25 12:55:00 -
[392] - Quote
Devadander wrote:ID G4f wrote:CELESTA AUNGM wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Gallente HAV Weak Spot
[img]http://puu.sh/kniol/05e3be0da6.jpg[/img]
Caldari HAV Weak Spot
[img]http://puu.sh/knisv/827ef28d16.jpg[/img] OMG! Was that fuel cell assembly ALWAYS sitting there like that, waving at us and smiling? Or did the devs do some cool redesigning of the vehicle for this Hotfix? This moment may qualify as "new vehicle design", introduced to the game! (...either way, yes I'm glad our Dropships don't have, err um something like THAT stuck up inside our--- --er, I mean, there's no crack between our-- Well, uh, what I'm trying to say is... Gosh, you know what I mean! Having red mercs running around the back of your DS trying to get a round up,-- I mean IN that--- well, it would be mighty uncomfortable for a dropship. ....oh ) It has always there, and has always been a crit damage zone. Apparently the crit damage zone is just getting bigger from what i understand. Dropships weak points are those huge thrusters on the back that rotate. I think... Idk that's where I aim lol
Not sure if they are crit zones or not, but it is where i aim as well.
85mil sp and counting
ID's Escrow - trade safe
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Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
781
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Posted - 2015.09.25 13:08:00 -
[393] - Quote
ID G4f wrote:Devadander wrote:ID G4f wrote:CELESTA AUNGM wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Gallente HAV Weak Spot
[img]http://puu.sh/kniol/05e3be0da6.jpg[/img]
Caldari HAV Weak Spot
[img]http://puu.sh/knisv/827ef28d16.jpg[/img] OMG! Was that fuel cell assembly ALWAYS sitting there like that, waving at us and smiling? Or did the devs do some cool redesigning of the vehicle for this Hotfix? This moment may qualify as "new vehicle design", introduced to the game! (...either way, yes I'm glad our Dropships don't have, err um something like THAT stuck up inside our--- --er, I mean, there's no crack between our-- Well, uh, what I'm trying to say is... Gosh, you know what I mean! Having red mercs running around the back of your DS trying to get a round up,-- I mean IN that--- well, it would be mighty uncomfortable for a dropship. ....oh ) It has always there, and has always been a crit damage zone. Apparently the crit damage zone is just getting bigger from what i understand. Dropships weak points are those huge thrusters on the back that rotate. I think... Idk that's where I aim lol Not sure if they are crit zones or not, but it is where i aim as well.
They are the weak point.
Purifier. First Class.
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argel999
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
26
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Posted - 2015.09.25 13:09:00 -
[394] - Quote
My FeedBack: As I said Before, currently you gain around 3 Locus ADV Nades per Basic Nanohive, so we need nerf Nades amount resuplied by each one.
EDIT: Also Check ISK price and CPU/PG requeriments.
...SLAYER...
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Demandred Moores
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
126
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Posted - 2015.09.25 13:41:00 -
[395] - Quote
Asad Thahab-Jabal wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:I just completely ignored everything you said after you stated "ADSs are incredibly isk efficient" Which is funny, because he said "was". "ADS was incredibly ISK efficient." Then goes on to say they still might be, but isn't sure. Train reading comprehension V asap. Breakin Stuff wrote:I will gleefully support making the plasma cannon or even a flaylock pistol being so before i will support making a fire and forget lock on weapon "best in class." AV doesn't want it to be "best in class" we want it to "not be absolute dribbleshit". The lock on range reduction on the table is pushing the swarm launchers into that category.
Can confirm. I can already hover out of lock range and shoot back in my ads as is. While it's still easy to take me out while my attention is focused on something. Swarms can be op I like all the changes except the range nerf. Forge is garbage as anti air as is I have more fun now than when I could drop 70 kills no problem before the major swarm buff and ads nerf. Not saying swarms don't need a nerf but range seems a bit much unless this assault swarm being made for anti air happens. |
Demandred Moores
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
126
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Posted - 2015.09.25 13:47:00 -
[396] - Quote
ID G4f wrote:I honestly think lock on should be removed from swarm launcher; or (a second less disirable option) added to large/small missile turrets. They are supposed to be the same weapon tech, & this was the original idea from what i understand. although i think removing lock on from this game is a far better idea. I also would like to see emplacement turrets treat infantry and vehicles equil. If infantry have to shoot them for the ai to attack back, same should be for vehicles. there is not alot of equality between vehicles and dropsuits, if they are to be equil, let them cost the same & let us deploy in them without a dropsuit, we can't escape death & our losses are on equil ground with dropsuits.
No, just no. I fly in my amarr logi and farm dem points and make bank. I do it right. This idea completely removes a part of this game. Stfu and goml |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
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Posted - 2015.09.25 13:56:00 -
[397] - Quote
Moochie Cricket wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Forge skill requirements are overrated. Agreed. Forging is more about managing one's surroundings and ammo supply than precision aiming. I'd encourage anyone who thinks (like I once did) that Forge Gunners have to lead their targets to try the weapon out for themselves. The projectile is far faster than you'd expect it to be. Edit: Note that I'm describing sniping with the "standard' forge gun. The assault variant is more skill intensive when it comes to popping infantry as you have to time your shots; it cannot hold a charge. Watch the video in my signature titled "Caldari" starting at the 2:28 mark and tell me again with a straight face that forge guns do not require any leading of the target.
Yes, it did look like you lead the dropship. When I whipped out the forge gun for the first time, I expected to have to lead every target at range like you lead that fastmoving dropship as it zipped across the horizon. I expected the forge gun to be a "skillshot" weapon like the plasma cannon and quickly discovered that this wasn't the case. Where the plasma cannon absolutely and always requires leading a moving target at range, the forge gun does not. |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 13:56:00 -
[398] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Except that Judge wasn't talking about a 50KDR being 'fine', it was that the only way to remain ISK positive was to have a 50KDR (because at the time they cost so much more): it was not that a 50KDR is fine for ADS and for no one else, it was that that was the benchmark for ADS being a self-sustaining role like any other. Also complete bull, because at 50 KDR average, Judge made a killing off every derpship he flew. Most. Profitable. Fit. Ever.
*Facepalm*
Except that when Judge made those comments ADS costs were 2-3x that of current prices. I flew during those times and I couldn't lose a dropship more than once every three games or else I'd be making a loss. ADSs back then absolutely needed a higher KDR to be sustainable - not that that's fair to either side, but that was the reality.
I don't want to go back to those days, but there are still serious issues in V/AV balance, especially regarding Swarms.
Demandred Moores wrote:I stopped reading at double hardened python lmao. Gg
What's your point? I primarily use a double hardened fit in Dominations where there is usually 1-2+ AVers present constantly, so that I can actually come into the area without immediately dying. But the point I was making was that even 1v1 a Wiyrkomi can still be dangerous.
A clip of Wiyrkomis with L1 Ammo (2%) and one Complex Damage Mod will do a little shy of 1300 damage to double hardened shields. Add in a Commando (Min or soon to be Cal) bonus and/or more damage mods and a single Wiyrkomi will rip the majority of your shields off. At that point it's either run or kill the Swarmer: a well positioned Swarmer has the advantage in the engagement.
So yeah, what's your point? That one Swarmer isn't a threat? That I'm an idiot? Use your words instead of being a snarky *******.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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NextDark Knight
Hellstorm LLC
863
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Posted - 2015.09.25 13:59:00 -
[399] - Quote
For us "Special People" .. not seeing how the Bolt Pistol is over powered compared to the SMG. Is this from Stats or Feedback?
Also not a Gal supporter at all but a 25% increase would be nice if you can add in some heat build up as well. Wouldn't mind it being a 4% "20%" increase to start off and moved down to 15% if to OP. AR def needs some lovin'
When will we be seeing the Cal and Min commando bonus change oked?
I can't wrap my mind around doing 150% melee damage to tanks. I just can't picture a team of minscouts hunting and kiling tanks.
Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
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Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 14:10:00 -
[400] - Quote
Regnier Feros wrote:Sequal's Back wrote:Enough as been said about grenades and I think Rattati noticed that they will be OP af if he releases those numbers.
Now I want to talk about assaults changes.
Cal and Gal are getting a great and needed buff (tho I still don't know if gal is 5% per level or total).
Minmatar is also getting a huge shield buff (almost equivalent to the CalAss).
But what about the Amarr Assault ? Nothing. Worse ! The ScR is getting seriously over-nerfed ! I swear, no one will ever use an Amarr assault with these changes.
The overheat increase is too much, the kick increase is re-tarded, and the "slowing you when charging" will make the amarr assault even more vulnerable to grenades (which gets a crazy over-buff).
Something I thought you'd have understand is that you dont buff something by nerfing another. The ScR just needs to deal less damage on shields and nothing else. You're simply killing the weapon with those changes. Assault scrambler <3 I want to try the new vanilla scrambler on the mando
It's gonna be worse than now, no reason to be excited about it x)
Bring your daughter... TO THE SLAUGHTER !
- Sequal Rise
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Toobar Zoobar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
155
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Posted - 2015.09.25 14:16:00 -
[401] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Toobar Zoobar wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Toobar Zoobar wrote:Why don't you just play ambush all day? It's pretty clear you just hate vehicle's and don't want to interact with them in any way. I literally just proposed nerfing the part of swarms that I've heard the most complaints from vehicle users about, for years. But apparently I just hate vehicle users. Seriously, you know why vehicle users tick me off? If anyone touches their kingdom of OPness, they misrepresent the crud out of everyone until the conversation dies in a fire. "kingdom of OPness". ^This. Arrogance. This is the first update in a long time that is in some way actually helping out the ADS and STILL you have to complain. After all the nerfs the ads has got over the years and the buffs the swarms have got, you still just can't let up for one second. It does come across that you seem to hate the ADS with this unrelenting campaign of yours to relegate pilots to the operators of flying pinyadas. Because the ADS should not get any help. I've seen the numbers, it was nerfed for good reason, and it still wasn't nerfed enough. If you saw what I saw, you would not even question my feedback.
It was the K/D wasn't it?
You can't balance something on raw statistics and you sure as hell shouldn't try to balance something if you don't know what the hell you're talking about!
Specialization: Making typo's.
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ID G4f
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
21
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Posted - 2015.09.25 14:38:00 -
[402] - Quote
Demandred Moores wrote:ID G4f wrote:I honestly think lock on should be removed from swarm launcher; or (a second less disirable option) added to large/small missile turrets. They are supposed to be the same weapon tech, & this was the original idea from what i understand. although i think removing lock on from this game is a far better idea. I also would like to see emplacement turrets treat infantry and vehicles equil. If infantry have to shoot them for the ai to attack back, same should be for vehicles. there is not alot of equality between vehicles and dropsuits, if they are to be equil, let them cost the same & let us deploy in them without a dropsuit, we can't escape death & our losses are on equil ground with dropsuits. No, just no. I fly in my amarr logi and farm dem points and make bank. I do it right. This idea completely removes a part of this game. Stfu and goml
Not really since blasters now have splash damage, they can still serve your needs in clearing high ground the same way. Probably will replace missiles completely on the next update for most ads pilots.
85mil sp and counting
ID's Escrow - trade safe
Bernie sanders for president! Finally a president of the people
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Genral69 death
RAT PATROL INC.
755
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Posted - 2015.09.25 14:43:00 -
[403] - Quote
RedPencil wrote:Genral69 death wrote:I'm sorry but I really cannot take you seriously.
1) it takes 2-3 hits from a XT small missle launcher to kill most min mando's not 1
2) swarm user are not the easiest to kill as by the time the ads pilot has located you, your second swarm round is closing in.
Can you considering how superior of ADS in battle?
I'm not even sure wtf that means
At least bring a valid argument to the table 1) Fix: 1 hit from ADS and the swarmer ( MOST SWARMER) is doom, but it took more than 3 hits by swarm to chase away ADS Not all swarmer run minmondo, Ask Rat to show the swarmer number if you want to use it as a solid argument. 2) By the time a swarmer fire the first shot, all the enemy in the battle field will coming for him. Dear poor ADS, please open your narrow minded for once. Hopefully, you would see the world from a difference perspective.
1) yes not everyone runs min mando with swarms but id say that's where the majority of swarms come from them.
2)I'm sorry your getting shoot being out in the open :|, why don't you get the high ground like every other min mando with a sl and md
3) calling me narrow minded is not helping your argument, how about you try flying an ads these days
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
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Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
155
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Posted - 2015.09.25 14:48:00 -
[404] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Except that Judge wasn't talking about a 50KDR being 'fine', it was that the only way to remain ISK positive was to have a 50KDR (because at the time they cost so much more): it was not that a 50KDR is fine for ADS and for no one else, it was that that was the benchmark for ADS being a self-sustaining role like any other. Also complete bull, because at 50 KDR average, Judge made a killing off every derpship he flew. Most. Profitable. Fit. Ever.
You are so painfully ignorant.
That was back when dropships were over 1 Million ISK per fit, and payouts after match were really low.
It took 5-7 matches to pay for a single dropship. |
Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 15:05:00 -
[405] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
When hell freezes over unless the rate of fire goes up on the forge.
Then we'll talk.
You are just DRIPPING with bias.
But like I said a decrease to range would call for a buff in some other area. And it doesn't even have to be all forge guns. Things like the breach or the regular forge gun can keep that range.
But the assault variant needs to come down in range. It's already the most powerful of all forge guns with no drawbacks in comparison to the other variants (unable to hold a charge isn't really a draw back from my experience).
A reduction to range would make the other variants more appealing (breach get more range for long charge times?). Your standard variant and breach are long range area denial weapons, while the assault would be your short range area denial/destruction variant.
Honestly though, in your quest to destroy vehicles, I feel you are neglecting your own bias for the forge gun. My balancing rule of thumb is to gain you must lose.
So a weapon should not have long range and high dps. As range increases, dps should go down. This is evident in the breach, but it lacks what it really needs, more range. The assault is like the converse, same range but MORE dps. Why? |
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
26
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Posted - 2015.09.25 15:08:00 -
[406] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
When hell freezes over unless the rate of fire goes up on the forge.
Then we'll talk.
You are just DRIPPING with bias. But like I said a decrease to range would call for a buff in some other area. And it doesn't even have to be all forge guns. Things like the breach or the regular forge gun can keep that range. But the assault variant needs to come down in range. It's already the most powerful of all forge guns with no drawbacks in comparison to the other variants (unable to hold a charge isn't really a draw back from my experience). A reduction to range would make the other variants more appealing (breach get more range for long charge times?). Your standard variant and breach are long range area denial weapons, while the assault would be your short range area denial/destruction variant. Honestly though, in your quest to destroy vehicles, I feel you are neglecting your own bias for the forge gun. My balancing rule of thumb is to gain you must lose. So a weapon should not have long range and high dps. As range increases, dps should go down. This is evident in the breach, but it lacks what it really needs, more range. The assault is like the converse, same range but MORE dps. Why?
great questions, the breach should have more range. later topic.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
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Posted - 2015.09.25 15:10:00 -
[407] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
When hell freezes over unless the rate of fire goes up on the forge.
Then we'll talk.
You are just DRIPPING with bias. But like I said a decrease to range would call for a buff in some other area. And it doesn't even have to be all forge guns. Things like the breach or the regular forge gun can keep that range. But the assault variant needs to come down in range. It's already the most powerful of all forge guns with no drawbacks in comparison to the other variants (unable to hold a charge isn't really a draw back from my experience). A reduction to range would make the other variants more appealing (breach get more range for long charge times?). Your standard variant and breach are long range area denial weapons, while the assault would be your short range area denial/destruction variant. Honestly though, in your quest to destroy vehicles, I feel you are neglecting your own bias for the forge gun. My balancing rule of thumb is to gain you must lose. So a weapon should not have long range and high dps. As range increases, dps should go down. This is evident in the breach, but it lacks what it really needs, more range. The assault is like the converse, same range but MORE dps. Why? great questions, the breach should have more range. later topic.
Or maybe instead of more range, a larger projectile?
"The unexamined life is not worth living."
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Balistyc Farshot
MONSTER SYNERGY
404
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Posted - 2015.09.25 15:12:00 -
[408] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Forge skill requirements are overrated. Agreed. Forging is more about managing one's surroundings and ammo supply than precision aiming. I'd encourage anyone who thinks (like I once did) that Forge Gunners have to lead their targets to try the weapon out for themselves. The projectile is far faster than you'd expect it to be. Edit: Note that I'm describing sniping with the "standard' forge gun. The assault variant is more skill intensive when it comes to popping infantry as you have to time your shots; it cannot hold a charge.
I had a long rebuttal to this, but I realize you aren't comparing the FG to the sniper rifle, which would have eaten you and your buddy's lunch because you idiots didn't even try moving around if a FG got you. Imagine every time you get FG sniped, if that guy was a Cal Sent with a Charged sniper. Yeah, you would have had some serious butthurt. (Not asking for a sniper nerf!)
This update seems nice except the cal and gal assaults are going to be insane now. I worry my fellow min assaults will be very unhappy with our current bonus to the stupid sidearm ammo (Who runs out of ammo in their sidearm?). Guess, I need to skill into another assault.
"Dying with your rep tool out - the logi-flasher!"
Who hasn't been caught by a cute little female scout doing this?
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Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
783
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Posted - 2015.09.25 15:15:00 -
[409] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
When hell freezes over unless the rate of fire goes up on the forge.
Then we'll talk.
You are just DRIPPING with bias. But like I said a decrease to range would call for a buff in some other area. And it doesn't even have to be all forge guns. Things like the breach or the regular forge gun can keep that range. But the assault variant needs to come down in range. It's already the most powerful of all forge guns with no drawbacks in comparison to the other variants (unable to hold a charge isn't really a draw back from my experience). A reduction to range would make the other variants more appealing (breach get more range for long charge times?). Your standard variant and breach are long range area denial weapons, while the assault would be your short range area denial/destruction variant. Honestly though, in your quest to destroy vehicles, I feel you are neglecting your own bias for the forge gun. My balancing rule of thumb is to gain you must lose. So a weapon should not have long range and high dps. As range increases, dps should go down. This is evident in the breach, but it lacks what it really needs, more range. The assault is like the converse, same range but MORE dps. Why? great questions, the breach should have more range. later topic.
Any chance we could lose the immobilisation on the Breach?
Purifier. First Class.
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
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Posted - 2015.09.25 15:17:00 -
[410] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
When hell freezes over unless the rate of fire goes up on the forge.
Then we'll talk.
You are just DRIPPING with bias. But like I said a decrease to range would call for a buff in some other area. And it doesn't even have to be all forge guns. Things like the breach or the regular forge gun can keep that range. But the assault variant needs to come down in range. It's already the most powerful of all forge guns with no drawbacks in comparison to the other variants (unable to hold a charge isn't really a draw back from my experience). A reduction to range would make the other variants more appealing (breach get more range for long charge times?). Your standard variant and breach are long range area denial weapons, while the assault would be your short range area denial/destruction variant. Honestly though, in your quest to destroy vehicles, I feel you are neglecting your own bias for the forge gun. My balancing rule of thumb is to gain you must lose. So a weapon should not have long range and high dps. As range increases, dps should go down. This is evident in the breach, but it lacks what it really needs, more range. The assault is like the converse, same range but MORE dps. Why? great questions, the breach should have more range. later topic. Any chance we could lose the immobilisation on the Breach?
Just add myos to your suit and do the bunny hop
"The unexamined life is not worth living."
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Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
784
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Posted - 2015.09.25 15:22:00 -
[411] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
When hell freezes over unless the rate of fire goes up on the forge.
Then we'll talk.
You are just DRIPPING with bias. But like I said a decrease to range would call for a buff in some other area. And it doesn't even have to be all forge guns. Things like the breach or the regular forge gun can keep that range. But the assault variant needs to come down in range. It's already the most powerful of all forge guns with no drawbacks in comparison to the other variants (unable to hold a charge isn't really a draw back from my experience). A reduction to range would make the other variants more appealing (breach get more range for long charge times?). Your standard variant and breach are long range area denial weapons, while the assault would be your short range area denial/destruction variant. Honestly though, in your quest to destroy vehicles, I feel you are neglecting your own bias for the forge gun. My balancing rule of thumb is to gain you must lose. So a weapon should not have long range and high dps. As range increases, dps should go down. This is evident in the breach, but it lacks what it really needs, more range. The assault is like the converse, same range but MORE dps. Why? great questions, the breach should have more range. later topic. Any chance we could lose the immobilisation on the Breach? Just add myos to your suit and do the bunny hop
The Sentinel Shuffle works better without super jump.
Purifier. First Class.
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
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Posted - 2015.09.25 15:25:00 -
[412] - Quote
Depends, I find it pretty useful when you are in the line of sight of a sniper or if a scout sneaks up on you.
"The unexamined life is not worth living."
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 15:30:00 -
[413] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Except that Judge wasn't talking about a 50KDR being 'fine', it was that the only way to remain ISK positive was to have a 50KDR (because at the time they cost so much more): it was not that a 50KDR is fine for ADS and for no one else, it was that that was the benchmark for ADS being a self-sustaining role like any other. Also complete bull, because at 50 KDR average, Judge made a killing off every derpship he flew. Most. Profitable. Fit. Ever.
Lucky for you soraya, I have Judge as a contact. His life time KD is 2.38.
that's pretty freaking far from 50.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
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Posted - 2015.09.25 15:35:00 -
[414] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Except that Judge wasn't talking about a 50KDR being 'fine', it was that the only way to remain ISK positive was to have a 50KDR (because at the time they cost so much more): it was not that a 50KDR is fine for ADS and for no one else, it was that that was the benchmark for ADS being a self-sustaining role like any other. Also complete bull, because at 50 KDR average, Judge made a killing off every derpship he flew. Most. Profitable. Fit. Ever. Lucky for you soraya, I have Judge as a contact. His life time KD is 2.38. that's pretty freaking far from 50. /Drops mic
Ftfy
"The unexamined life is not worth living."
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Thumb Green
2
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Posted - 2015.09.25 15:44:00 -
[415] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:just clearing up some things
Commando will hit for be 270, after the reduction to melee damage myofibs, should be comparable as before. That was not intended to be reduced.
Gallente Assault ROF bonus only applies to Assault Rifles (the whole family) and is now 3% per level, for a 15% total.
I hear the nade concerns, and we will see how it pans out.
I stand fully by the whole HAV/AV reasoning in the OP. Assault Swarm launchers are still on the table for being an Anti Air platform.
The plan for Melee was to be effective, especially on the Weak Spots but the code for Melee Damage vs Nova Knives is a bit blurred, looking into it. I will also share a few screenshots on the weak spots.
People who complain about Scrambler Hipfire kick going from 0.025 to 0.1 as "OMG 400% nerf" need to play the game. This is intended to stop spam and nothing else. Currently the 0.025 is so little it literally does nothing. There is no kick. After a lot of testing, the number is balanced to be able to charge and then fire calmly. Spamming as fast as you can will overheat within a few shots, but a calm follow up will not.
What about the Cassault RR kick reduction, that's only going to be when you aim down sights, right? Otherwise you're not only making it better at mid-long range but CQC as well and the RR shouldn't be better in CQC.
Trying to bring the slayer logi back.... unsuccessfully so far.
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
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Posted - 2015.09.25 15:45:00 -
[416] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:just clearing up some things
Commando will hit for be 270, after the reduction to melee damage myofibs, should be comparable as before. That was not intended to be reduced.
Gallente Assault ROF bonus only applies to Assault Rifles (the whole family) and is now 3% per level, for a 15% total.
I hear the nade concerns, and we will see how it pans out.
I stand fully by the whole HAV/AV reasoning in the OP. Assault Swarm launchers are still on the table for being an Anti Air platform.
The plan for Melee was to be effective, especially on the Weak Spots but the code for Melee Damage vs Nova Knives is a bit blurred, looking into it. I will also share a few screenshots on the weak spots.
People who complain about Scrambler Hipfire kick going from 0.025 to 0.1 as "OMG 400% nerf" need to play the game. This is intended to stop spam and nothing else. Currently the 0.025 is so little it literally does nothing. There is no kick. After a lot of testing, the number is balanced to be able to charge and then fire calmly. Spamming as fast as you can will overheat within a few shots, but a calm follow up will not. What about the Cassault RR kick reduction, that's only going to be when you aim down sights, right? Otherwise you're not only making it better at mid-long range but CQC as well and the RR shouldn't be better in CQC.
It will only be better in CQC on the Cal Assault. The ROF increase will still make the Gallente better at CQC
"The unexamined life is not worth living."
|
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 15:46:00 -
[417] - Quote
Foxfour Feedback
Lots of good going on here. Will limit my feedback to concerns.
Swarms - I understand the need to address the Swarm Launcher's oppression of the DS, but in my best estimation, reducing swarm launcher range will create as much imbalance as it remedies. Getting within swarm range of hostile vehicles is already risky business. If you were to filter out Commandos from kill-spawn efficiency tables, I suspect you'd find ample data to support this long-held and routinely reaffirmed observation. Swarmers might have a "fire and forget" weapon but they also have to juggle a number of risk factors which forgers from afar (oft atop roofs and/or behind friendly lines) needn't concern themselves with. Should the range nerf go through, I do not expect Swarms will see much use in the weeks and months following Foxfour. High risk and negligible reward will be to blame. If the range reduction is an absolute must (again, a bad idea IMO), I'd propose also reducing lock-on time by half; this way, a swarmer will still be able to get one volley off at a charging LAV.
Scrambler Rifle - I've long opined that the ScR was OP and I agree that a nerf to spammability is in order. That said, I'm concerned that the combination of nerfs on the table might be too much. Increasing heat and slowing charge-held movement by 20% seems a solid solution. Adding an increase in kick to the mix may be over the top, though the effect of such small number is hard to gauge without proper field testing.
Bolt Pistol - It is my opinion that the Bolt Pistol's problems can be blamed squarely on too much hipfire aim assist. Would've personally proposed and preferred a nerf to non-ADS aim-assist adhesion and magnetism. The RoF nerf seems steep, but this is perhaps another case of "tough to call" without field testing. If spray-and-pray sidearms (i.e. SMGs, new ScPs, new MagSecs) kill more quickly and reliably than skillshot weapons, there will be little (if any) reason to run the skillshot weapons.
Shield Changes - I understand that this is a first step in a process toward the ultimate goal of balanced armor-v-shield interplay. I'd ask only that the Devs keep in mind that changes which make the game easier for those with high hitpoint reserves also make the game harder for those without. The effects of slowed TTK are not felt equally.
Assault Changes - Very much in favor of the proposed racial bonuses to GA and CA Assault; concerns are limited to implementation and values. Fingers crossed that the Caldari bonus only applies when aiming-down-sights; you might otherwise have a problem with longer range RR and ARR outperforming shorter range rifles at short range. On the topic of short range, I'd suspect RoF bonus of 10% would grant an AR-toting GA Assault an edge in CQC. An RoF bonus of 25% (or even 15%) strikes me as over-the-top.
FoxFour Predictions
Class Usage / Performance Trends
http://i.imgur.com/YBtLizZ.png
Unaddressed Imbalance
OP - Active Scans / GA Logi
UP - EWAR-oriented Scouts
New Imbalance
OP - Dual Tanked GA Assault
OP - Damage Amp'd GA Assault
OP - Dual Tanked CA Assault
OP - Dropships
UP - Swarms
UP - Bolt Pistol
UP - ScR |
DeathwindRising
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 15:47:00 -
[418] - Quote
The bolt pistol gets a rod reduction... Won't that lower dps and displace it on the curve? So doesn't rattati need to slightly raise damage or something to compensate? |
XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 15:49:00 -
[419] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Foxfour Feedback
Lots of good going on here. Will limit my feedback to concerns. Swarms - I understand the need to address the Swarm Launcher's oppression of the DS, but in my best estimation, reducing swarm launcher range will create as much imbalance as it remedies. Getting within swarm range of hostile vehicles is already risky business. If you were to filter out Commandos from kill-spawn efficiency tables, I suspect you'd find ample data to support this long-held and routinely reaffirmed observation. Swarmers might have a "fire and forget" weapon but they also have to juggle a number of risk factors which forgers from afar (oft atop roofs and/or behind friendly lines) needn't concern themselves with. Should the range nerf go through, I do not expect Swarms will see much use in the weeks and months following Foxfour. High risk and negligible reward will be to blame. If the range reduction is an absolute must (again, a bad idea IMO), I'd propose also reducing lock-on time by half; this way, a swarmer will still be able to get one volley off at a charging LAV. Scrambler Rifle - I've long opined that the ScR was OP and I agree that a nerf to spammability is in order. That said, I'm concerned that the combination of nerfs on the table might be too much. Increasing heat and slowing charge-held movement by 20% seems a solid solution. Adding an increase in kick to the mix may be over the top, though the effect of such small number is hard to gauge without proper field testing. Bolt Pistol - It is my opinion that the Bolt Pistol's problems can be blamed squarely on too much hipfire aim assist. Would've personally proposed and preferred a nerf to non-ADS aim-assist adhesion and magnetism. The RoF nerf seems steep, but this is perhaps another case of "tough to call" without field testing. If spray-and-pray sidearms (i.e. SMGs, new ScPs, new MagSecs) kill more quickly and reliably than skillshot weapons, there will be little (if any) reason to run the skillshot weapons. Shield Changes - I understand that this is a first step in a process toward the ultimate goal of balanced armor-v-shield interplay. I'd ask only that the Devs keep in mind that changes which make the game easier for those with high hitpoint reserves also make the game harder for those without. The effects of slowed TTK are not felt equally. Assault Changes - Very much in favor of the proposed racial bonuses to GA and CA Assault; concerns are limited to implementation and values. Fingers crossed that the Caldari bonus only applies when aiming-down-sights; you might otherwise have a problem with longer range RR and ARR outperforming shorter range rifles at short range. On the topic of short range, I'd suspect RoF bonus of 10% would grant an AR-toting GA Assault an edge in CQC. An RoF bonus of 25% (or even 15%) strikes me as over-the-top.
FoxFour Predictions
Class Usage / Performance Trendshttp://i.imgur.com/YBtLizZ.pngUnaddressed ImbalanceOP - Active Scans / GA Logi UP - EWAR-oriented Scouts New ImbalanceOP - Dual Tanked GA Assault OP - Damage Amp'd GA Assault OP - Dual Tanked CA Assault OP - Dropships UP - Swarms UP - Bolt Pistol UP - ScR
Dropships will not be OP from ONE av weapon being nerfed
"The unexamined life is not worth living."
|
Thumb Green
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 15:49:00 -
[420] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Thumb Green wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:just clearing up some things
Commando will hit for be 270, after the reduction to melee damage myofibs, should be comparable as before. That was not intended to be reduced.
Gallente Assault ROF bonus only applies to Assault Rifles (the whole family) and is now 3% per level, for a 15% total.
I hear the nade concerns, and we will see how it pans out.
I stand fully by the whole HAV/AV reasoning in the OP. Assault Swarm launchers are still on the table for being an Anti Air platform.
The plan for Melee was to be effective, especially on the Weak Spots but the code for Melee Damage vs Nova Knives is a bit blurred, looking into it. I will also share a few screenshots on the weak spots.
People who complain about Scrambler Hipfire kick going from 0.025 to 0.1 as "OMG 400% nerf" need to play the game. This is intended to stop spam and nothing else. Currently the 0.025 is so little it literally does nothing. There is no kick. After a lot of testing, the number is balanced to be able to charge and then fire calmly. Spamming as fast as you can will overheat within a few shots, but a calm follow up will not. What about the Cassault RR kick reduction, that's only going to be when you aim down sights, right? Otherwise you're not only making it better at mid-long range but CQC as well and the RR shouldn't be better in CQC. It will only be better in CQC on the Cal Assault. The ROF increase will still make the Gallente better at CQC
That's beside the point. The RR is meant to be the king of long range and suck in CQC just as the AR is meant to be the king of CQC and suck at long range. If the RR is king of long range and good in CQC even if just on one suit, then there's no downside and no, the charge up ain't that big of a deal.
Trying to bring the slayer logi back.... unsuccessfully so far.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 15:54:00 -
[421] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:
Dropships will not be OP from ONE av weapon being nerfed
We'll see.
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DeathwindRising
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 15:56:00 -
[422] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Thumb Green wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:just clearing up some things
Commando will hit for be 270, after the reduction to melee damage myofibs, should be comparable as before. That was not intended to be reduced.
Gallente Assault ROF bonus only applies to Assault Rifles (the whole family) and is now 3% per level, for a 15% total.
I hear the nade concerns, and we will see how it pans out.
I stand fully by the whole HAV/AV reasoning in the OP. Assault Swarm launchers are still on the table for being an Anti Air platform.
The plan for Melee was to be effective, especially on the Weak Spots but the code for Melee Damage vs Nova Knives is a bit blurred, looking into it. I will also share a few screenshots on the weak spots.
People who complain about Scrambler Hipfire kick going from 0.025 to 0.1 as "OMG 400% nerf" need to play the game. This is intended to stop spam and nothing else. Currently the 0.025 is so little it literally does nothing. There is no kick. After a lot of testing, the number is balanced to be able to charge and then fire calmly. Spamming as fast as you can will overheat within a few shots, but a calm follow up will not. What about the Cassault RR kick reduction, that's only going to be when you aim down sights, right? Otherwise you're not only making it better at mid-long range but CQC as well and the RR shouldn't be better in CQC. It will only be better in CQC on the Cal Assault. The ROF increase will still make the Gallente better at CQC That's beside the point. The RR is meant to be the king of long range and suck in CQC just as the AR is meant to be the king of CQC and suck at long range. If the RR is king of long range and good in CQC even if just on one suit, then there's no downside and no, the charge up ain't that big of a deal.
RR won't be used in cqc. The magsec will be lol. Your concern is misplaced. The new magsec stats are almost perfectly taylored to be paired with the RR so you get the best in both situations |
Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 15:59:00 -
[423] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:
Dropships will not be OP from ONE av weapon being nerfed
We'll see.
Interesting tidbit, in PC, forge guns are an ADS's worst nightmare. Swarms are simply supplemental. |
Thumb Green
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 16:02:00 -
[424] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:
RR won't be used in cqc. The magsec will be lol. Your concern is misplaced. The new magsec stats are almost perfectly taylored to be paired with the RR so you get the best in both situations
Sure it won't.
In either case there's no reason for the RR to get a hipfire kick reduction.
Trying to bring the slayer logi back.... unsuccessfully so far.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 16:10:00 -
[425] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:
Dropships will not be OP from ONE av weapon being nerfed
We'll see. Interesting tidbit, in PC, forge guns are an ADS's worst nightmare. Swarms are simply supplemental.
No doubt. Still I've found that mixed AV worked very well it came to crashing birds and tanks. Forge + Swarms made for a deadly combination. I don't think that swarms will see much use following FoxFour; will be interesting to see what (if anything) replaces them, both in pubs and PC. |
Bremen van Equis
Incorruptibles
728
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 16:10:00 -
[426] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote: Should the range nerf go through, I do not expect Swarms will see much use in the weeks and months following Foxfour. High risk and negligible reward will be to blame.
High risk and negligible reward... area denial of a force multiplier is a negligible reward? Are you talking about WP for kills, or usefulness to the team? Maybe I'm wrong but aren't you guys wracking up +75's every time you get more than one volley off?
High risk and negligible reward is what current ADS is all about, except maybe in the hands of the most adept pilots. Swarms on a basic Min commando (now Caldari after hotfix) seem to be low risk for lots of points.
Are you trying to solo an ADS with swarms, or deny them access to clear a bunch of rooftop spawn points?
Buckle up, boysGǪthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 16:17:00 -
[427] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:
Dropships will not be OP from ONE av weapon being nerfed
We'll see. Interesting tidbit, in PC, forge guns are an ADS's worst nightmare. Swarms are simply supplemental. No doubt. Still I've found that mixed AV worked very well it came to crashing birds and tanks. Forge + Swarms made for a deadly combination. I don't think that swarms will see much use following FoxFour; will be interesting to see what (if anything) replaces them, both in pubs and PC.
I always use officer swarms anyhow.
200M range ftw. |
Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 16:19:00 -
[428] - Quote
Murder Medic wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Except that Judge wasn't talking about a 50KDR being 'fine', it was that the only way to remain ISK positive was to have a 50KDR (because at the time they cost so much more): it was not that a 50KDR is fine for ADS and for no one else, it was that that was the benchmark for ADS being a self-sustaining role like any other. Also complete bull, because at 50 KDR average, Judge made a killing off every derpship he flew. Most. Profitable. Fit. Ever. You are so painfully ignorant. That was back when dropships were over 1 Million ISK per fit, and payouts after match were really low. It took 4-6 matches to pay for a single dropship.
4-6 matches to pay for a dropship, when it could survive several matches with ease? Yeah.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 16:21:00 -
[429] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Except that Judge wasn't talking about a 50KDR being 'fine', it was that the only way to remain ISK positive was to have a 50KDR (because at the time they cost so much more): it was not that a 50KDR is fine for ADS and for no one else, it was that that was the benchmark for ADS being a self-sustaining role like any other. Also complete bull, because at 50 KDR average, Judge made a killing off every derpship he flew. Most. Profitable. Fit. Ever. Lucky for you soraya, I have Judge as a contact. His life time KD is 2.38. that's pretty freaking far from 50.
His statement was his KDR in ADS was about 50, as of the time of the discussion.
Not lifetime. And only when he was in his ADS, not all of his gameplay combined.
And even if Judge was lying to the community, the point is still relevant: Judge said he thought an average KDR of 50 was acceptable balance for an ADS.
Sorry, Tesfa, you're still operating with the rough level of competency of my little sister. She actually turned seven yesterday though, so not a six year old, I messed up in my previous comment.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
160
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 16:24:00 -
[430] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:
And even if Judge was lying to the community, the point is still relevant: Judge said he thought an average KDR of 50 was acceptable balance for an ADS.
Because you had to do well in 4-6 matches without dying once in order to break even
So, about 8-9 kills per match
You are exactly why CPM is nothing but poison to this game |
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Toobar Zoobar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
157
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 16:24:00 -
[431] - Quote
I hope Rattati comes to his senses and removes K/D as a viewable statistic.
K/D is important in CoD not dust.
Specialization: Making typo's.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 16:30:00 -
[432] - Quote
Murder Medic wrote:Because you had to do well in 4-6 matches without dying once in order to break even
So, about 8-12 kills per match
Which was extremely painless and easy for ADS pilots to reliably do, and then some. Because ADSes rarely ever died.
The fact that pilots had a temper tantrum on the rare occasion one did, may lead people to believe they died more frequently, just due to the volume of their crying.
But the ADS was always reliably OP as all get out.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
|
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
162
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Posted - 2015.09.25 16:31:00 -
[433] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Murder Medic wrote:Because you had to do well in 4-6 matches without dying once in order to break even
So, about 8-12 kills per match Which was extremely painless and easy for ADS pilots to reliably do, and then some. Because ADSes rarely ever died. The fact that pilots had a temper tantrum on the rare occasion one did, may lead people to believe they died more frequently, just due to the volume of their crying. But the ADS was always reliably OP as all get out.
They rarely died to swarms, at the time.
Back then Railguns could one shot almost any and all fits from dropships, and forge guns were performing very well too.
Just because YOU were bad at AV, doesn't mean the rest of the population was.
RDVs, invisible blocks in the sky, over the top collision damage, other dropships, the list goes on and on. It was never safe to fly unless you were up against virtually no opposition what so ever. You're just making things up to try and console yourself for not being very skilled at AV. And, at the time, swarms were underperforming by quite a bit. |
Thumb Green
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 16:35:00 -
[434] - Quote
Toobar Zoobar wrote:I hope Rattati comes to his senses and removes K/D as a viewable statistic.
K/D is important in CoD not dust.
Hope they do too so you people will shut the fck up about it and then feel bad for being so damn annoying when you see it's removal has no impact. Stat padders are going to pad whichever is deemed the more important stat and stompers are going to stomp because they enjoy it. The blues, well they're still going to half-ass it just enough to get their points without losing too much ISK.
Trying to bring the slayer logi back.... unsuccessfully so far.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 16:39:00 -
[435] - Quote
Bremen van Equis wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote: Should the range nerf go through, I do not expect Swarms will see much use in the weeks and months following Foxfour. High risk and negligible reward will be to blame. High risk and negligible reward... area denial of a force multiplier is a negligible reward? Are you talking about WP for kills, or usefulness to the team? Maybe I'm wrong but aren't you guys wracking up +75's every time you get more than one volley off? High risk and negligible reward is what current ADS is all about, except maybe in the hands of the most adept pilots. Swarms on a basic Min commando (now Caldari after hotfix) seem to be low risk for lots of points. Are you trying to solo an ADS with swarms, or deny them access to clear a bunch of rooftop spawn points?
Hi there. You must've confused me with Soraya; please re-read the very first line of my feedback on the topic.
I'm in agreement that swarms are at present too good against dropships. Unfortunately for Swarmers, there's more at play with Swarms than their oppression of dropships. Take Swarms vs HAVs, for example. Why even bother? To answer your question, Swarmers are not being paid +75WP per volley. Swarming is not at all a WP-intensive activity. It is, however, a very high-risk activity. Swarmers tend to die alot. They just do. If you don't care to take my word for it, try it sometime for yourself. Better yet, ask Rattati for Swarm Launcher kill/spawn efficiency numbers. |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 16:40:00 -
[436] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Which was extremely painless and easy for ADS pilots to reliably do, and then some. Because ADSes rarely ever died.
But the ADS was always reliably OP as all get out.
Yeah, no. As Murder Medic said, flying wasn't nearly as awesome and easy as you make out.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 16:46:00 -
[437] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Yeah, no. As Murder Medic said, flying wasn't nearly as awesome and easy as you make out.
I get that you guys still whined just as loud before, but you're still horrifically spoiled brats about how the ADS performed, but yes, it was that awesome for you.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 16:51:00 -
[438] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:I get that you guys still whined just as loud before, but you're still horrifically spoiled brats about how the ADS performed, but yes, it was that awesome for you.
Wow, just no it wasn't. In 1.6, sure when Hardeners were ridiculous, but it wasn't that way all the time. Or I guess we just keep asserting that the other is wrong for ever and ever.
And it's not like Swarms never had their period of OPness. 400m lock-on, higher damage Swarms were incredibly OP and entirely ridiculous to fly against, to the point that Swarms shut down entire maps. Don't act like this is a one way street.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Moochie Cricket
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 17:11:00 -
[439] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Yeah, no. As Murder Medic said, flying wasn't nearly as awesome and easy as you make out. I get that you guys still whined just as loud before, but you're still horrifically spoiled brats about how the ADS performed, but yes, it was that awesome for you.
Opinions are like @ssholes, everyone has them. However, yours is a gaping abyss spewing forth an unending stream of diarrhea.
Caldari
REALLY 514
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Lac Nokomis
Corrosive Synergy
No Context
147
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 17:11:00 -
[440] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon? Allow me to be abundantly clear as the token AV guy on the CPM on my position. It will be a cold day in hell before I support making a self-guiding, lock-on, fire-and-forget weapon superior to every other weapon in it's class regardless of any real or perceived limitation. It is simply not going to happen. I will gleefully support making the plasma cannon or even a flaylock pistol being so before i will support making a fire and forget lock on weapon "best in class."
*Looks at breach flaylock pistol*
"Its okay boy, your time will come."
"What? Cleaned up? lets focus on getting you dirty first" |
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DeathwindRising
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 17:16:00 -
[441] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:
RR won't be used in cqc. The magsec will be lol. Your concern is misplaced. The new magsec stats are almost perfectly taylored to be paired with the RR so you get the best in both situations
Sure it won't. In either case there's no reason for the RR to get a hipfire kick reduction.
it wont because the new magsec will have more dps and a much short charge up
new proto magsec dps = 406.52
current proto RR dps = 397.69
new magsec charge up time = 0.1 seconds
current RR charge up time = 0.45 seconds
theres literally no competitive reason for using a RR in cqc over the new magsec, especially since the magsec already has less kick than the RR
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Lac Nokomis
Corrosive Synergy
No Context
147
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 17:25:00 -
[442] - Quote
I lurk on these forums just WAITING for threads like this. Love it.
Glad to see so many changes. Just purely the amount of change has be exited. :D
I started playing right when the RR got nerfed (1.8?)
I don't actually think the AR buff is going to be too nuts. I mean how many dedicated CAL assaults do you know that go close quarters against the AR as it is?
We know to stick to 70m, and the kick reduction will pay us for our playstyle, rather then say the GAL assaults play style.
Most feedback will probably be given in the AR vs Armor tankers in close quarters. Im sure as hell not going to start running my CAL assault into CQC. Its not where they belong. Hopefully we remember that.
If your lurking in this thread, remember energy spent on irrelevance is wasted.
As someone that hasn't been around long it is refreshing to see the new CPM posting everywhere, you know, in the community. Its weird, but im getting use to it.
o7 |
Cronar Stenovich
TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS
0
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 17:28:00 -
[443] - Quote
I wanted to get on here and bash the hotfix but I managed to get over my butthurt... then I read this.
Small Blaster
Old Splash Radius50
New Splash Radius 200<--- Blasters have a 2 meter splash radius?! Wait BLASTERS HAVE SPLASH!?
Can I have my Rail Turret splash back please? They should at least equal blasters, I have zero chance of taking on a Forge Gunner, Swarmer or Plasma Cannoneer when I have to be more accurate than they do from a nose turret on a dropship while they're knocking me around. Oh and running away just gets me emails that say "*****" so that isn't an option. |
Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 17:31:00 -
[444] - Quote
Cronar Stenovich wrote:I wanted to get on here and bash the hotfix but I managed to get over my butthurt... then I read this.
Small Blaster
Old Splash Radius50
New Splash Radius 200<--- Blasters have a 2 meter splash radius?! Wait BLASTERS HAVE SPLASH!?
Can I have my Rail Turret splash back please? They should at least equal blasters, I have zero chance of taking on a Forge Gunner, Swarmer or Plasma Cannoneer when I have to be more accurate than they do from a nose turret on a dropship while they're knocking me around. Oh and running away just gets me emails that say "*****" so that isn't an option.
Yes, they now have 2m splash.
If you're trying to kill anything other than a vehicle with a nose mounted railgun, you're doing it wrong.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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Loyal Glasses
G.L.O.R.Y
98
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Posted - 2015.09.25 17:34:00 -
[445] - Quote
Lightning35 Delta514 wrote:Quoted to GD. THANK YOU RATATI!!! MY KALANATE ASSAULT RIFLE IS THE MOST OP IN DA GAME!!!!! I CAN NOW FULLY FIT MY GALASS WIH NORE DAMAGE WITH PG REDUCTION AND MY GALMANDO IS AWESOMER NOW!!!!
I have much better luck when using the Std AR than the Kalanate. :\
Glasses of the Loyal Variety
>
"The dead are notoriously unproductive "
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Loyal Glasses
G.L.O.R.Y
98
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Posted - 2015.09.25 17:38:00 -
[446] - Quote
Cronar Stenovich wrote:I wanted to get on here and bash the hotfix but I managed to get over my butthurt... then I read this.
Small Blaster
Old Splash Radius50
New Splash Radius 200<--- Blasters have a 2 meter splash radius?! Wait BLASTERS HAVE SPLASH!?
Can I have my Rail Turret splash back please? They should at least equal blasters, I have zero chance of taking on a Forge Gunner, Swarmer or Plasma Cannoneer when I have to be more accurate than they do from a nose turret on a dropship while they're knocking me around. Oh and running away just gets me emails that say "*****" so that isn't an option.
It doesn't need splash what it needs is a damage + accuracy increase.
Glasses of the Loyal Variety
>
"The dead are notoriously unproductive "
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Thumb Green
Elephant Riders
2
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Posted - 2015.09.25 17:38:00 -
[447] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:Thumb Green wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:
RR won't be used in cqc. The magsec will be lol. Your concern is misplaced. The new magsec stats are almost perfectly taylored to be paired with the RR so you get the best in both situations
Sure it won't. In either case there's no reason for the RR to get a hipfire kick reduction. it wont because the new magsec will have more dps and a much short charge up new proto magsec dps = 406.52 current proto RR dps = 397.69 new magsec charge up time = 0.1 seconds current RR charge up time = 0.45 seconds theres literally no competitive reason for using a RR in cqc over the new magsec, especially since the magsec already has less kick than the RR
You're problem is you're looking at it as either one or the other, which only applies to 3 of the logi's. In the end I don't care whether or not people would try to use it in CQC, there's still no damn reason for the RR's to receive a hipfire kick reduction.
Trying to bring the slayer logi back.... unsuccessfully so far.
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DeathwindRising
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 17:56:00 -
[448] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:Thumb Green wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:
RR won't be used in cqc. The magsec will be lol. Your concern is misplaced. The new magsec stats are almost perfectly taylored to be paired with the RR so you get the best in both situations
Sure it won't. In either case there's no reason for the RR to get a hipfire kick reduction. it wont because the new magsec will have more dps and a much short charge up new proto magsec dps = 406.52 current proto RR dps = 397.69 new magsec charge up time = 0.1 seconds current RR charge up time = 0.45 seconds theres literally no competitive reason for using a RR in cqc over the new magsec, especially since the magsec already has less kick than the RR You're problem is you're looking at it as either one or the other, which only applies to 3 of the logi's (edit) which is still irrelevant because this only applies to the Cassault . In the end I don't care whether or not people would try to use it in CQC, there's still no damn reason for the RR's to receive a hipfire kick reduction.
why are you talking about logis?
if you dont care if people will use the RR in cqc or not, why do you care at all?
honestly i use the RR in cqc now just fine. i just had to get used to it. the charge up is the issue for me. a kick reduction is simply a quality of life improvement |
Vesta Opalus
Rebels New Republic
The Ditanian Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 17:58:00 -
[449] - Quote
Bremen van Equis wrote:
High risk and negligible reward... area denial of a force multiplier is a negligible reward? Are you talking about WP for kills, or usefulness to the team? Maybe I'm wrong but aren't you guys wracking up +75's every time you get more than one volley off?
The WP for damage is pretty much broken since the last update, hardeners take the damage down so far that you basically dont do enough damage to trigger WP rewards (though you still get plenty of points killing throw away gorgons and vipers, oh boy). |
Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
440
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 18:01:00 -
[450] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Bremen van Equis wrote:
High risk and negligible reward... area denial of a force multiplier is a negligible reward? Are you talking about WP for kills, or usefulness to the team? Maybe I'm wrong but aren't you guys wracking up +75's every time you get more than one volley off?
The WP for damage is pretty much broken since the last update, hardeners take the damage down so far that you basically dont do enough damage to trigger WP rewards (though you still get plenty of points killing throw away gorgons and vipers, oh boy).
This...combination it seems of regeneration and hardeners...I more only seem to get vehicle damage points if the vehicle fits plates/extenders anymore
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
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Duke Noobiam
The Dukes of Death
549
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Posted - 2015.09.25 18:01:00 -
[451] - Quote
Just wanted to chime in on the Swarms vs ADS.
As a player who was around in 1.6 and 1.7, I share Soraya's concern about OP vehicles that farm infantry at a rate of 25-50 KDR. Anyone who played infantry back then and who tried to fulfill the AV role knows how frustrating and futile it was.
Maybe the pendulum went too far when swarms were buffed and vehicles were nerfed, but recent releases have (IMO) struck a pretty good balance where a single AV player can not necessarily kill a pilot but can at least drive them away for a minute or two. I'm not sure why this is not considered as being balanced.
As for ADS specifically, it's important to keep in mind the following when trying to balance them.
1. Swarms are the only real viable option for ADS suppression.
- A forge gun can be used with partial success at short range, (75 meters or less) but is useless at a distance. Add the fact that equiping a forge gun makes an AV player canon foder to infantry and the returns quickly become untenable.
- The plasma canon is very difficult to use even at a close range against dropships.
2. Denying access to an area is not equivalent to killing. I actually think that the ability to deny access to specific area to a vehicle by one AV player is perfectly balanced. This protects pilots from a huge ISK loss and protects infantry from being farmed. It is much more balanced than requiring multiple players to deal with a single player using a vehicle.
3. The primary critetria to determine balance needs to be KDR. It cannot be ISK as ISK has no bearing on the outcome of a specific game.
That said, I'm not necessarily against the proposed changes but I am concerned about the opinions of vehicles pilots who believe that their ISK investment entitles them to farm opponents. Your ISK investment allows you to affect the outcome of the battle by giving you access to parts of the map that no one else can use, by giving you greater mobility and by giving you invulnerability to small arms fire. It should not give you a disproportionately higher KDR by virtue of spending more isk. |
Cronar Stenovich
TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 18:06:00 -
[452] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Cronar Stenovich wrote:I wanted to get on here and bash the hotfix but I managed to get over my butthurt... then I read this.
Small Blaster
Old Splash Radius50
New Splash Radius 200<--- Blasters have a 2 meter splash radius?! Wait BLASTERS HAVE SPLASH!?
Can I have my Rail Turret splash back please? They should at least equal blasters, I have zero chance of taking on a Forge Gunner, Swarmer or Plasma Cannoneer when I have to be more accurate than they do from a nose turret on a dropship while they're knocking me around. Oh and running away just gets me emails that say "*****" so that isn't an option. Yes, they now have 2m splash. If you're trying to kill anything other than a vehicle with a nose mounted railgun, you're doing it wrong.
Generally I agree, but I should be able to take 10 seconds to TRY to defend myself. I don't think Rail Turrets should get a ton of splash but enough that I can at least get one hit on an enemy without shear dumb luck before they force me away. I should be able to engage the guy stuck on a 3 meter tower top and at least drive him to hiding. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
165
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Posted - 2015.09.25 18:15:00 -
[453] - Quote
Moochie Cricket wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Yeah, no. As Murder Medic said, flying wasn't nearly as awesome and easy as you make out. I get that you guys still whined just as loud before, but you're still horrifically spoiled brats about how the ADS performed, but yes, it was that awesome for you. Opinions are like @ssholes, everyone has them. However, yours is a gaping abyss spewing forth an unending stream of diarrhea.
You win the internet |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
165
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Posted - 2015.09.25 18:16:00 -
[454] - Quote
Lac Nokomis wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon? Allow me to be abundantly clear as the token AV guy on the CPM on my position. It will be a cold day in hell before I support making a self-guiding, lock-on, fire-and-forget weapon superior to every other weapon in it's class regardless of any real or perceived limitation. It is simply not going to happen. I will gleefully support making the plasma cannon or even a flaylock pistol being so before i will support making a fire and forget lock on weapon "best in class." *Looks at breach flaylock pistol* "Its okay boy, your time will come." "What? Cleaned up? lets focus on getting you dirty first"
Do you remember when flaylock pistols had MASSIVE knockback on dropships?
Yea....that was obnoxious >_< |
Thumb Green
Elephant Riders
2
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Posted - 2015.09.25 18:18:00 -
[455] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:Thumb Green wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:Thumb Green wrote:DeathwindRising wrote:
RR won't be used in cqc. The magsec will be lol. Your concern is misplaced. The new magsec stats are almost perfectly taylored to be paired with the RR so you get the best in both situations
Sure it won't. In either case there's no reason for the RR to get a hipfire kick reduction. it wont because the new magsec will have more dps and a much short charge up new proto magsec dps = 406.52 current proto RR dps = 397.69 new magsec charge up time = 0.1 seconds current RR charge up time = 0.45 seconds theres literally no competitive reason for using a RR in cqc over the new magsec, especially since the magsec already has less kick than the RR You're problem is you're looking at it as either one or the other, which only applies to 3 of the logi's (edit) which is still irrelevant because this only applies to the Cassault . In the end I don't care whether or not people would try to use it in CQC, there's still no damn reason for the RR's to receive a hipfire kick reduction. why are you talking about logis? if you dont care if people will use the RR in cqc or not, why do you care at all? honestly i use the RR in cqc now just fine. i just had to get used to it. the charge up is the issue for me. a kick reduction is simply a quality of life improvement
Because you were talking about it as if it were one or the other and that only applies to logis.
I care because it isn't how it's supposed to be. The RR isn't supposed to go toe to toe with people in CQC, it isn't meant to be king of long range and still good at CQC. Don't get me wrong, I'm willing to accept compromise; but got to trade out something of equal value, so what's being traded? Nothing, the AR is getting a RoF buff but that's not going to make it viable at long range yet the RR is getting a buff that could make it even more viable in CQC. It's a case of having your cake and eating it too, and that just don't fly to me.
Trying to bring the slayer logi back.... unsuccessfully so far.
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Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
166
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Posted - 2015.09.25 18:22:00 -
[456] - Quote
Duke Noobiam wrote:That said, I'm not necessarily against the proposed changes but I am concerned about the opinions of vehicles pilots who believe that their ISK investment entitles them to farm opponents. Your ISK investment allows you to affect the outcome of the battle by giving you access to parts of the map that no one else can use, by giving you greater mobility and by giving you invulnerability to small arms fire. It should not give you a disproportionately higher KDR by virtue of spending more isk.
The thing is though if an ADS goes 20/2, he will have spent more ISK than someone on the ground going 25/5 and will likely have earned less WP for his efforts as well. Along with that, at no point did he hack any points, and likely didn't prevent too many hacks.
It's too easy to just say omg his kdr is good without factoring in everything else. ISK absolutely has to be some kind of a factor, I'm not saying it should make us invulnerable but acting like ISK has no bearing is silly when that only applies to old vets and some top corps. Other players very much live or die by their ISK balance, dropships are absolutely no exception.
It's just frustrating when it's totally fine for infantry to completely dominate a fight and no one bats an eye, but when a dropship does even halfway decent (pretty much only killing infantry, as AV ADS nets you 0-3 kills most matches) and suddenly the sky is falling.
I think that qualifies as a double standard |
Mr.Pepe Le Pew
Art.of.Death
Smart Deploy
259
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Posted - 2015.09.25 18:26:00 -
[457] - Quote
Nerfing ACR is silly.
CEO / Art.of.Death
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 18:29:00 -
[458] - Quote
Duke Noobiam wrote:Just wanted to chime in on the Swarms vs ADS.
As a player who was around in 1.6 and 1.7, I share Soraya's concern about OP vehicles that farm infantry at a rate of 25-50 KDR. Anyone who played infantry back then and who tried to fulfill the AV role knows how frustrating and futile it was.
Maybe the pendulum went too far when swarms were buffed and vehicles were nerfed, but recent releases have (IMO) struck a pretty good balance where a single AV player can not necessarily kill a pilot but can at least drive them away for a minute or two. I'm not sure why this is not considered as being balanced.
As for ADS specifically, it's important to keep in mind the following when trying to balance them.
1. Swarms are the only real viable option for ADS suppression.
- A forge gun can be used with partial success at short range, (75 meters or less) but is useless at a distance. Add the fact that equiping a forge gun makes an AV player canon foder to infantry and the returns quickly become untenable.
- The plasma canon is very difficult to use even at a close range against dropships.
2. Denying access to an area is not equivalent to killing. I actually think that the ability to deny access to specific area to a vehicle by one AV player is perfectly balanced. This protects pilots from a huge ISK loss and protects infantry from being farmed. It is much more balanced than requiring multiple players to deal with a single player using a vehicle.
3. The primary critetria to determine balance needs to be KDR. It cannot be ISK as ISK has no bearing on the outcome of a specific game.
That said, I'm not necessarily against the proposed changes but I am concerned about the opinions of vehicles pilots who believe that their ISK investment entitles them to farm opponents. Your ISK investment allows you to affect the outcome of the battle by giving you access to parts of the map that no one else can use, by giving you greater mobility and by giving you invulnerability to small arms fire. It should not give you a disproportionately higher KDR by virtue of spending more isk.
This guy gets it. |
Bremen van Equis
Incorruptibles
731
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 18:41:00 -
[459] - Quote
Vesta Opalus wrote:Bremen van Equis wrote:
High risk and negligible reward... area denial of a force multiplier is a negligible reward? Are you talking about WP for kills, or usefulness to the team? Maybe I'm wrong but aren't you guys wracking up +75's every time you get more than one volley off?
The WP for damage is pretty much broken since the last update, hardeners take the damage down so far that you basically dont do enough damage to trigger WP rewards (though you still get plenty of points killing throw away gorgons and vipers, oh boy).
Thank you for that feedback... I figured the second volley was generating WP for the solo swarmer b/c that 2nd volley usually ate well into my Incubus' armor...even with a hardener activated.
Buckle up, boysGǪthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
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Vesta Opalus
Rebels New Republic
The Ditanian Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 18:42:00 -
[460] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Interesting changes...... still not really enough to make HAV real tanks.
Will there ever be a time in this game when the round I fire from my HAV turret explodes with full AoE effect?
Maybe when AV is as effective as real life anti tank weapons? |
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Vulpes Dolosus
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
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Posted - 2015.09.25 18:52:00 -
[461] - Quote
Welp, the ADS argument just hit full Tier 7 on the argument pyramid.
Quit the name calling and address real issues:
-ADS can't mitigate swarm damage through skilled flying (unlike forges)
-Swarms take little player-skill to use effectively (unlike forges forges)
-Rendering + small, indistinguishable targets assures swarms always get the first hit (unless taken by surprise and a lucky guess from the ADS)
-Invisible swarms make retaliation in an ADS impossible and making adjustments in flying space ambiguous.
-Minmando players who skilled it for the swarm bonus are getting screwed over; there's no explicit reason why the bonus changed suits other than lore (which is pretty poor if you ask me, see Min scouts and NKs)
-A single swarmer will have trouble killing a properly flown and fitted ADS (aside: this is mainly due to ADS flying away, not inability to damage)
-Multiple AV stacks much more effectively than multiple ADSs/ vehicles
Etc.
Dust is there! I was real!
Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
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james jared
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
151
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 19:00:00 -
[462] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:james jared wrote:Will all mass drivers get 100% damage to vehicles or just the breach??? I believe all. Flaylocks too.
Flaylocks too!!!! That just made my day. Cant wate to flaylock a tank :) |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 19:22:00 -
[463] - Quote
Duke Noobiam wrote:As a player who was around in 1.6 and 1.7, I share Soraya's concern about OP vehicles that farm infantry at a rate of 25-50 KDR. Anyone who played infantry back then and who tried to fulfill the AV role knows how frustrating and futile it was.
Maybe the pendulum went too far when swarms were buffed and vehicles were nerfed, but recent releases have (IMO) struck a pretty good balance where a single AV player can not necessarily kill a pilot but can at least drive them away for a minute or two. I'm not sure why this is not considered as being balanced.
And I played both then and before, when Swarms utterly dominated any kind of vehicle. That was frustrating and futile. The pendulum swings both ways; I personally feel that it has swung too far in favour of the Swarms (vs ADSs.)
Duke Noobiam wrote:As for ADS specifically, it's important to keep in mind the following when trying to balance them.
1. Swarms are the only real viable option for ADS suppression.
- A forge gun can be used with partial success at short range, (75 meters or less) but is useless at a distance. Add the fact that equiping a forge gun makes an AV player canon foder to infantry and the returns quickly become untenable.
- The plasma canon is very difficult to use even at a close range against dropships.
2. Denying access to an area is not equivalent to killing. I actually think that the ability to deny access to specific area to a vehicle by one AV player is perfectly balanced. This protects pilots from a huge ISK loss and protects infantry from being farmed. It is much more balanced than requiring multiple players to deal with a single player using a vehicle.
3. The primary critetria to determine balance needs to be KDR. It cannot be ISK as ISK has no bearing on the outcome of a specific game.
1. My main (Halla) uses Plasma, and yes it's very hard to engage dropships; but my alt (Kallas) uses FGs and engaging dropships with them is perfectly reasonable - it's not easy, it's not hard, it's just a thing that can be done. Even Assault FGs are fine for engaging a dropship at 0-150m, though AFGs suffer at long range.
While the FG Sentinel suffers in infantry engagements, they aren't entirely defenceless: sidearms like the SMG function very effectively.
2. Define denial, because actually engaging an AVer with an ADS tends to happen only after the first attempt to enter an area has already been repulsed, due to most AV getting to strike first unless the ADS drops directly on them by happenstance. That basically means that AV drives the vehicle away, almost immediately, up to a minute (depending on tier usage) and if the ADS cannot identify the AVer within a very short time frame (usually around 5-10 seconds at most) then they are forced to retreat again for however long before trying again.
Then you have to factor in potential WP that the AVer gets. If it functions properly (which is an issue, just like bad rendering for the pilot is) then the AVer can get 75-150WP per encounter unless the ADS is incredibly twitchy and runs instantly. Essentially, denial should be rewarded, but on the flip side the ADS gets very little return, the only real rewards they get are kills.
3. Primary criteria should be KDR?! What?! That is absolute nonsense. KDR means very little. I definitely agree that ISK shouldn't buy invulnerability, but at the same time what is the point of ISK if not as a balancing mechanic? ISK restricts how much someone can use something - STD, ADV, PRO, they all cost increasing amounts to restrict using PRO all the time. This is essentially the same thing as with vehicles; essentially, a higher ISK correlates with higher effectiveness because otherwise it wouldn't cost the amount it does.
Duke Noobiam wrote:That said, I'm not necessarily against the proposed changes but I am concerned about the opinions of vehicles pilots who believe that their ISK investment entitles them to farm opponents. Your ISK investment allows you to affect the outcome of the battle by giving you access to parts of the map that no one else can use, by giving you greater mobility and by giving you invulnerability to small arms fire. It should not give you a disproportionately higher KDR by virtue of spending more isk.
Thing is that ISK investment does equate to an increase in power: it's the principle that governs STD/ADV/PRO throughout the entire DUST game. While vehicles and infantry are different, surely the same principle applies when considering ISK investment across the board.
Personally, I'm fine with vehicles costing more or costing the same. Would you suggest that vehicles should cost the same as infantry dropsuits then? Because ISK doesn't have a bearing on the outcome, right? So why should anything cost any more? Because it's more effective.
So, logically, if something costs significantly more ISK, it should be significantly more effective and vice versa. Now, I am all for vehicles being reduced in power and cost to bring them in line with dropsuits, but I find the notion that ISK has no meaning is utterly short sighted and ridiculous.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.09.25 20:13:00 -
[464] - Quote
Off-topic, but I want to chime in on the idea of "area-denial" to AV players.
Denying an area means stopping the enemy from operating in that area by posing a threat if they try. That does NOT only mean that you have killed him; killing him is certainly one way to deny him, but by no means the only way.
So when we talk about forge guns denying an area in a 300m bubble, we do not mean that we are always killed if we enter that 300m bubble, only that we are denied doing what we do in that area. We cannot kill infantry or land to drop links if there is a forge gun present, because both of those require us to be relatively still, and that makes us the perfect target for a forge gun. We are denied the area not because of our destruction, but because doing anything other than dodginf forge gun shots will result in our death. Whether we successfully dodge the forge shots or not, the forger has denied us the area, because his team can move and act as though we are not even there.
AV should not be a guaranteed kill against any vehicle. What it should be is something that makes the vehicle stop what it's doing (laying links, killing infantry) and be forced to deal with the threat (by retreating, engaging the AV directly, etc.) Rather than continue with its original mission.
The threat of death does need to be there: that's why armor tanks were OP, because they could basically ignore AV and continue to do whatever they were doing. But death should not be a forgone conclusion just because you pulled out AV.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 20:23:00 -
[465] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Welp, the ADS argument just hit full Tier 7 on the argument pyramid.Quit the name calling and address real issues: -ADS can't mitigate swarm damage through skilled flying (unlike forges) -Swarms take little player-skill to use effectively (unlike forges forges) -Rendering + small, indistinguishable targets assures swarms always get the first hit (unless taken by surprise and a lucky guess from the ADS) -Invisible swarms make retaliation in an ADS impossible and making adjustments in flying space ambiguous. -Minmando players who skilled it for the swarm bonus are getting screwed over; there's no explicit reason why the bonus changed suits other than lore (which is pretty poor if you ask me, see Min scouts and NKs) -A single swarmer will have trouble killing a properly flown and fitted ADS (aside: this is mainly due to ADS flying away, not inability to damage) -Multiple AV stacks much more effectively than multiple ADSs/ vehicles Etc.
If I may, Swarms vs ADS is pretty complex web. Pull one string too hard and its easy for it all to come undone. But I prefer more rational debates than the ad hominem attacks soraya is chucking about left, right, and center.
A normal rational, thought process should be demonstrating why 150m rather than 175m spells the end of swarms.
The same way normal, rational players demonstrated that the gallente buff of 25% ROF might be too high, so Rattati dropped it down to 15%.
Instead a good half of what looked to be a decent hotfix thread has been massively derailed by wild attacks and demands placed on Devs and players alike by one person, who is only armed with a few personal opinons, although contradictory in nature, is still based on a build replaced 12 months ago.
Instead of all of this doomsday foretelling of what would happen if swarms lost 25m of lock on range, i would have expected people to revolt about swarms will now miss a hard manuevering, yank and bank dropship.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
865
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 20:29:00 -
[466] - Quote
186Posted: 2014.10.28 21:27 | Report
2
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Nothing Certain wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:If you think A good job was done with the Tank, the ADS and the AV then speak up. I think It sucks. Show me why it does not. Show me why it does. What does balance look like to you? What kdr or spawn/kill ratio should ADS pilots average?Tankers? AVers? Or what metric should we be looking at? To me they should all fare similarly , what we had was pilots being nigh invincible and claiming they deserved it because of SP and ISK expenditure. I am still pretty sure that 10 swarms are lost for every ADS at a minimum, so how is that imbalanced against ADS? 10? more like 100. 100? How about we look at some real figures. Pulling numbers from your bottom is useless. Dropships in this build need to maintain a 43.2 kdr compared to the equivilent SP based Swarm with a 3.6 KDR. KDR alone as a balance tool is for people who have a pre-school understanding of balance tools
ADS Ramming Revenge!
Plasma Cannon Rampage
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ID G4f
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
25
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Posted - 2015.09.25 20:29:00 -
[467] - Quote
Like i said before if av is = to vehicles, then make them cost the same & make us spawn into the driver seat with no dropsuit. If my vehicle dies, i'll go with it, no problem. But make me lose the same isk instead of millions more. you can nerf the power to equilize them as well at that point. But if proto stomping is op because of all the isk spent why is my isk & sp investment valueless. My prediction of the new hotfix is the majority of tanks will disappear. Except a few redline tanks. Tanks will only be good for losing $ with all the new av damage on the field. I plan on punching and knifing a few tanks myself
85mil sp and counting
ID's Escrow - trade safe
Bernie sanders for president! Finally a president of the people
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 20:32:00 -
[468] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:Off-topic, but I want to chime in on the idea of "area-denial" to AV players.
Denying an area means stopping the enemy from operating in that area by posing a threat if they try. That does NOT only mean that you have killed him; killing him is certainly one way to deny him, but by no means the only way.
So when we talk about forge guns denying an area in a 300m bubble, we do not mean that we are always killed if we enter that 300m bubble, only that we are denied doing what we do in that area. We cannot kill infantry or land to drop links if there is a forge gun present, because both of those require us to be relatively still, and that makes us the perfect target for a forge gun. We are denied the area not because of our destruction, but because doing anything other than dodginf forge gun shots will result in our death. Whether we successfully dodge the forge shots or not, the forger has denied us the area, because his team can move and act as though we are not even there.
AV should not be a guaranteed kill against any vehicle. What it should be is something that makes the vehicle stop what it's doing (laying links, killing infantry) and be forced to deal with the threat (by retreating, engaging the AV directly, etc.) Rather than continue with its original mission.
The threat of death does need to be there: that's why armor tanks were OP, because they could basically ignore AV and continue to do whatever they were doing. But death should not be a forgone conclusion just because you pulled out AV.
Well put! |
Flint Beastgood III
Standby Retaliation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 21:09:00 -
[469] - Quote
Looks very interesting and for once I can't complain...
Well, I could but I'll let everyone else complain about trading for me
BPO Trade Stall
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Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
169
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 21:10:00 -
[470] - Quote
Juno Tristan wrote:186Posted: 2014.10.28 21:27 | Report 2 Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Nothing Certain wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:If you think A good job was done with the Tank, the ADS and the AV then speak up. I think It sucks. Show me why it does not. Show me why it does. What does balance look like to you? What kdr or spawn/kill ratio should ADS pilots average?Tankers? AVers? Or what metric should we be looking at? To me they should all fare similarly , what we had was pilots being nigh invincible and claiming they deserved it because of SP and ISK expenditure. I am still pretty sure that 10 swarms are lost for every ADS at a minimum, so how is that imbalanced against ADS? 10? more like 100. 100? How about we look at some real figures. Pulling numbers from your bottom is useless. Dropships in this build need to maintain a 43.2 kdr compared to the equivilent SP based Swarm with a 3.6 KDR. KDR alone as a balance tool is for people who have a pre-school understanding of balance tools
I miss judge so much. |
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 22:48:00 -
[471] - Quote
KDR is not really relevant to balance. There are two goals in a match.
Goal 1 is to win.
Goal 2 is to make isk.
Most matches come down to MCC, rather than clones. In such cases KDR is pretty irrelevant. Kills and warpoints are much more accurate indicators of someone's value in the battle. Though there is no perfect measure for contribution to Goal 1. KDR isn't often one though.
Goal 2 is defined by isk loss vs isk gain. Obviously if your gear costs more, you should die less. Otherwise how does it help you with goal 2?
Risk vs reward means that if your reward is the same (reward being isk, not K/D), your risk should be the same. So you should on average lose the same amount of isk per match. If you gear costs 5 times more you should die 5 times less. |
Leovarian L Lavitz
TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 22:58:00 -
[472] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:KDR is not really relevant to balance. There are two goals in a match.
Goal 1 is to win.
Goal 2 is to make isk.
Most matches come down to MCC, rather than clones. In such cases KDR is pretty irrelevant. Kills and warpoints are much more accurate indicators of someone's value in the battle. Though there is no perfect measure for contribution to Goal 1. KDR isn't often one though.
Goal 2 is defined by isk loss vs isk gain. Obviously if your gear costs more, you should die less. Otherwise how does it help you with goal 2?
Risk vs reward means that if your reward is the same (reward being isk, not K/D), your risk should be the same. So you should on average lose the same amount of isk per match. If you gear costs 5 times more you should die 5 times less.
Not in new eden. If your gear costs 5 times more, you should only die 20% less. if your gear costs 100x more, you should only die half as much. Isk only gives increments, not leaps.
Youtube: Dust 514 - You should Have Worn Proto
One V One Emperor
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 23:08:00 -
[473] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:KDR is not really relevant to balance. There are two goals in a match.
Goal 1 is to win.
Goal 2 is to make isk.
Most matches come down to MCC, rather than clones. In such cases KDR is pretty irrelevant. Kills and warpoints are much more accurate indicators of someone's value in the battle. Though there is no perfect measure for contribution to Goal 1. KDR isn't often one though.
Goal 2 is defined by isk loss vs isk gain. Obviously if your gear costs more, you should die less. Otherwise how does it help you with goal 2?
Risk vs reward means that if your reward is the same (reward being isk, not K/D), your risk should be the same. So you should on average lose the same amount of isk per match. If you gear costs 5 times more you should die 5 times less. Not in new eden. If your gear costs 5 times more, you should only die 20% less. if your gear costs 100x more, you should only die half as much. Isk only gives increments, not leaps.
That does seem right actually. But the extra investment should still give you an advantage. |
LOL KILLZ
LulKlz
378
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 23:16:00 -
[474] - Quote
Pleased.
\0/
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 23:28:00 -
[475] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:
Dropships will not be OP from ONE av weapon being nerfed
We'll see.
It will be interesting...
In the current setup, I am enjoying the Python as it is.. pay attention to your HP and AV fire and you can be pretty much invincible until the gank happens, I don't pity too many saying AD underperform.. when the reality is, performance is based on what you do with it.. Avoid AV and fly smart, you'll do well.. fly into an AV hotzone.. goodbye ADS..
The better pilots should have some fun with them, reducing Swarms tracking/turn speeds along with the impact damage, will allow a good pilot to dodge a lot more AV, time will tell if this is a bad thing or not...
@ Soraya ..
parth0k / derrith / darth are the pilots you should look at performance.. seeing Judge dragged in, when he quit a year ago makes no sense and is bass ackwards for trying to get anything balanced...
And to put the whole 50 KD thing you wave like a flag to rest
Judge + Squad (usually one HAV, and some troops that could AV if needed) back when he was active, I lost count of the amount of times his squad would leave a battle if they had a fight on their hands, and as for the fights they stayed in.. when you have a squad clearing any threat to your ADS, and you are essentialy farming randoms in pubs.. whatever KDR he could boast is useless data imo, anyone can pick and choose their fights and get a good KDR..
SOONtm
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.09.25 23:50:00 -
[476] - Quote
I agree with what you're saying bar this part:
TheD1CK wrote:In the current setup, I am enjoying the Python as it is.. pay attention to your HP and AV fire and you can be pretty much invincible until the gank happens, I don't pity too many saying AD underperform.. when the reality is, performance is based on what you do with it.. Avoid AV and fly smart, you'll do well.. fly into an AV hotzone.. goodbye ADS..
Because AV retains the first mover advantage and, while rendering remains iffy, always will. Avoiding AV comes after getting pummelled by them already so that you even know they're in the area. With Domination being the only (like 95%) game mode with any real traction, it's hard to 'avoid AV' while being anything approaching useful.
So unless you have call outs telling you that there are X/Y/Z AV players in location A/B/C (and even then ,your support might not know about them) then you're SOL. Still, maybe with these changes we'll finally be able to dodge Swarms with extreme manoeuvring. Fingers crossed.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
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Posted - 2015.09.26 00:21:00 -
[477] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:I have no idea how he of all people got on CPM 1. Why do you +1 all of my posts and then insult me in your posts?
lol he did the same kitten to me lol
dust 514 ruined console gaming for me
pc master race
PORT IT CCP
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 00:22:00 -
[478] - Quote
ID G4f wrote:Like i said before if av is = to vehicles, then make them cost the same & make us spawn into the driver seat with no dropsuit. If my vehicle dies, i'll go with it, no problem. But make me lose the same isk instead of millions more. you can nerf the power to equilize them as well at that point. But if proto stomping is op because of all the isk spent why is my isk & sp investment valueless. My prediction of the new hotfix is the majority of tanks will disappear. Except a few redline tanks. Tanks will only be good for losing $ with all the new av damage on the field. I plan on punching and knifing a few tanks myself
yup plus 1
dust 514 ruined console gaming for me
pc master race
PORT IT CCP
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 00:38:00 -
[479] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
Simply increasing the weak spot on HAVs considerably will allow dedicated AV and other vehicles to use positioning, speed and skill to heavily change the outcome of each encounter without having an effect on Dropships.
This is just the right thing which both balances the game, and brings more depth to it.
A needed change, and a great one. Congratulations.
KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 00:42:00 -
[480] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
Locus Grenade damage progression made Standard and Advanced grenades fairly useless, so we are going to have the same damage for all tiears, with increasing radius per tier. We are also fixing the Packed Locus and buffing the Fused Grenades considerably.
As assume that the sentence "with increasing radius per tier" means that the nades keep their current progressive blast radius,
I can say:
This is an excellent change and a needed one.
Anyone objecting to this should realise even a slight blast radius buff means more practical damage because of the way damage is calcultated to the center of the blast.
KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
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Booby Tuesdays
Bad Mother Thukkers
1
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Posted - 2015.09.26 00:47:00 -
[481] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Welp, the ADS argument just hit full Tier 7 on the argument pyramid.Quit the name calling and address real issues: -ADS can't mitigate swarm damage through skilled flying (unlike forges) -Swarms take little player-skill to use effectively (unlike forges forges) -Rendering + small, indistinguishable targets assures swarms always get the first hit (unless taken by surprise and a lucky guess from the ADS) -Invisible swarms make retaliation in an ADS impossible and making adjustments in flying space ambiguous. -Minmando players who skilled it for the swarm bonus are getting screwed over; there's no explicit reason why the bonus changed suits other than lore (which is pretty poor if you ask me, see Min scouts and NKs) -A single swarmer will have trouble killing a properly flown and fitted ADS (aside: this is mainly due to ADS flying away, not inability to damage) -Multiple AV stacks much more effectively than multiple ADSs/ vehicles Etc. If I may, Swarms vs ADS is pretty complex web. Pull one string too hard and its easy for it all to come undone. But I prefer more rational debates than the ad hominem attacks soraya is chucking about left, right, and center. A normal rational, thought process should be demonstrating why 150m rather than 175m spells the end of swarms. The same way normal, rational players demonstrated that the gallente buff of 25% ROF might be too high, so Rattati dropped it down to 15%. Instead a good half of what looked to be a decent hotfix thread has been massively derailed by wild attacks and demands placed on Devs and players alike by one person, who is only armed with a few personal opinons, although contradictory in nature, is still based on a build replaced 12 months ago. Instead of all of this doomsday foretelling of what would happen if swarms lost 25m of lock on range, i would have expected people to revolt about swarms will now miss a hard manuevering, yank and bank dropship.
Having to run 25m closer to an HAV or DS puts you 25m closer to the optimal range of RR and ScR. Infantry is the reason rational people like myself do not like the range nerf on swarms.
Half Assed Forum Warrior - Half Decent Commando - Damn Good Logi - Matari Freedom Fighter lvl 8
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 00:52:00 -
[482] - Quote
In my expert opinion (lol),
I think the premise of nerfing the scrambler rifles thru it's charge-up shot is wrong.
Accordingto empiric experience, the charge is used relatively rarely, and difficult enough to hit.
If there can be any data on such a detail, it might prove me wrong.
The scrambler rifles strength lies in:
- relatively high damage per shot
- ability to rapid fire
- all rapid fire shots got to same very small area, with only slight kick upwards.
All those mean that it deals quite a hefty burst of damage in short time. Excellent in close quarters.
If I am not mistaken, it has already been damage to heat -wise better to 'rapid fire only' than to 'charge+rapid fire few'.
Therefore, I predict that these scrambler charged shot nerfs have minimal effect in the scramblers battlefield performance.
Ugh. I have spoken.
KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
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Booby Tuesdays
Bad Mother Thukkers
1
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Posted - 2015.09.26 00:55:00 -
[483] - Quote
I will never understand why a few of the popularity contest winners (CPM2) pushed for shield buffs to armor suits under the veil of "linearity". Things could still have been very linear with the armor and shield suits separated by more than just a second or two. Getting all the dropsuits on the same page in regards to not having numbers all over the place, sure. Buffing the recharge and delay of armor based suits? No entiendo.
Half Assed Forum Warrior - Half Decent Commando - Damn Good Logi - Matari Freedom Fighter lvl 8
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ID G4f
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
28
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 00:56:00 -
[484] - Quote
Booby Tuesdays wrote:Tesfa Alem wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Welp, the ADS argument just hit full Tier 7 on the argument pyramid.Quit the name calling and address real issues: -ADS can't mitigate swarm damage through skilled flying (unlike forges) -Swarms take little player-skill to use effectively (unlike forges forges) -Rendering + small, indistinguishable targets assures swarms always get the first hit (unless taken by surprise and a lucky guess from the ADS) -Invisible swarms make retaliation in an ADS impossible and making adjustments in flying space ambiguous. -Minmando players who skilled it for the swarm bonus are getting screwed over; there's no explicit reason why the bonus changed suits other than lore (which is pretty poor if you ask me, see Min scouts and NKs) -A single swarmer will have trouble killing a properly flown and fitted ADS (aside: this is mainly due to ADS flying away, not inability to damage) -Multiple AV stacks much more effectively than multiple ADSs/ vehicles Etc. If I may, Swarms vs ADS is pretty complex web. Pull one string too hard and its easy for it all to come undone. But I prefer more rational debates than the ad hominem attacks soraya is chucking about left, right, and center. A normal rational, thought process should be demonstrating why 150m rather than 175m spells the end of swarms. The same way normal, rational players demonstrated that the gallente buff of 25% ROF might be too high, so Rattati dropped it down to 15%. Instead a good half of what looked to be a decent hotfix thread has been massively derailed by wild attacks and demands placed on Devs and players alike by one person, who is only armed with a few personal opinons, although contradictory in nature, is still based on a build replaced 12 months ago. Instead of all of this doomsday foretelling of what would happen if swarms lost 25m of lock on range, i would have expected people to revolt about swarms will now miss a hard manuevering, yank and bank dropship. Having to run 25m closer to an HAV or DS puts you 25m closer to the optimal range of RR and ScR. Infantry is the reason rational people like myself do not like the range nerf on swarms.
So you think you should be able to stand in perfect safety outside of the battle? dropships aren't engaging at 175 m anyway. And we find out your there by the first swarms hitting us, meaning the second set is in the air. We could really use a lock on warning & maybe allow us to see who is locking on, that would even it up a bit.
85mil sp and counting
ID's Escrow - trade safe
Bernie sanders for president! Finally a president of the people
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Daddrobit
You Can Call Me Daddy
1
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Posted - 2015.09.26 00:59:00 -
[485] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
Locus Grenade damage progression made Standard and Advanced grenades fairly useless, so we are going to have the same damage for all tiears, with increasing radius per tier. We are also fixing the Packed Locus and buffing the Fused Grenades considerably.
As assume that the sentence "with increasing radius per tier" means that the nades keep their current progressive blast radius, I can say: This is an excellent change and a needed one. Anyone objecting to this should realise even a slight blast radius buff means more practical damage because of the way damage is calcultated to the center of the blast.
Objections to the nades aren't about how it was handled by having progression only affect blast radius, our objection is that everyone and their mother who carries even a basic nade will now have two 600 damage thunder nuggets in their pocket. We figured, (when this idea has been asked for before) that they would normalize damage to around the advanced tier, something like 450 damage.
As it stands with the new changes, even a milita nade will do old core damage.
Which is goddamned bonkers if you ask me.
O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
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Booby Tuesdays
Bad Mother Thukkers
1
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Posted - 2015.09.26 01:04:00 -
[486] - Quote
ID G4f wrote:
So you think you should be able to stand in perfect safety outside of the battle? dropships aren't engaging at 175 m anyway. And we find out your there by the first swarms hitting us, meaning the second set is in the air. We could really use a lock on warning & maybe allow us to see who is locking on, that would even it up a bit.
Nah, I'm not saying that at all. A forge gunner is way more powerful than a swarmer, and they have now DOUBLE the range of swarms.
Look at all the rational posts (some from Rat man himself) saying that the odds of a swarmer actually taking out a DS pilot were very low. They were area denial. Now that they have to be that much closer to the hot zone, vehicles should have an easier time taking scenic drives.
That's all I'm saying. The last thing I want is easy mode anything.
Half Assed Forum Warrior - Half Decent Commando - Damn Good Logi - Matari Freedom Fighter lvl 8
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Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
944
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 01:08:00 -
[487] - Quote
Booby Tuesdays wrote:I will never understand why a few of the popularity contest winners (CPM2) pushed for shield buffs to armor suits under the veil of "linearity". Things could still have been very linear with the armor and shield suits separated by more than just a second or two. Getting all the dropsuits on the same page in regards to not having numbers all over the place, sure. Buffing the recharge and delay of armor based suits? No entiendo.
It's not like they have the same recharge rate or shield Hp to begin with. It's hardly gonna make armour suits better cos why would I want 300+ Shields on my armour suit and no damage mods? Cos it recharges slightly quick than before? Id rather have more DPS.
Wanna play eve?
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 01:12:00 -
[488] - Quote
Daddrobit wrote:
Objections to the nades aren't about how it was handled by having progression only affect blast radius, our objection is that everyone and their mother who carries even a basic nade will now have two 600 damage thunder nuggets in their pocket. We figured, (when this idea has been asked for before) that they would normalize damage to around the advanced tier, something like 450 damage.
As it stands with the new changes, even a milita nade will do old core damage.
Which is goddamned bonkers if you ask me.
Have you tested the old packed locus nades?
On paper, they are beast.
In practice, they often don't even wound.
Blast radius equals to practical damage, I tell you.
It's all about damage projection.
All having 600 damage should not be a concern.
KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
|
Booby Tuesdays
Bad Mother Thukkers
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 01:14:00 -
[489] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:I will never understand why a few of the popularity contest winners (CPM2) pushed for shield buffs to armor suits under the veil of "linearity". Things could still have been very linear with the armor and shield suits separated by more than just a second or two. Getting all the dropsuits on the same page in regards to not having numbers all over the place, sure. Buffing the recharge and delay of armor based suits? No entiendo. It's not like they have the same recharge rate or shield Hp to begin with. It's hardly gonna make armour suits better cos why would I want 300+ Shields on my armour suit and no damage mods? Cos it recharges slightly quick than before? Id rather have more DPS.
The new values for the Gal Logi are now higher than the Min Logi have ever been. On what planet does that make sense?
Half Assed Forum Warrior - Half Decent Commando - Damn Good Logi - Matari Freedom Fighter lvl 8
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 01:34:00 -
[490] - Quote
ID G4f wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:Tesfa Alem wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Welp, the ADS argument just hit full Tier 7 on the argument pyramid.Quit the name calling and address real issues: -ADS can't mitigate swarm damage through skilled flying (unlike forges) -Swarms take little player-skill to use effectively (unlike forges forges) -Rendering + small, indistinguishable targets assures swarms always get the first hit (unless taken by surprise and a lucky guess from the ADS) -Invisible swarms make retaliation in an ADS impossible and making adjustments in flying space ambiguous. -Minmando players who skilled it for the swarm bonus are getting screwed over; there's no explicit reason why the bonus changed suits other than lore (which is pretty poor if you ask me, see Min scouts and NKs) -A single swarmer will have trouble killing a properly flown and fitted ADS (aside: this is mainly due to ADS flying away, not inability to damage) -Multiple AV stacks much more effectively than multiple ADSs/ vehicles Etc. If I may, Swarms vs ADS is pretty complex web. Pull one string too hard and its easy for it all to come undone. But I prefer more rational debates than the ad hominem attacks soraya is chucking about left, right, and center. A normal rational, thought process should be demonstrating why 150m rather than 175m spells the end of swarms. The same way normal, rational players demonstrated that the gallente buff of 25% ROF might be too high, so Rattati dropped it down to 15%. Instead a good half of what looked to be a decent hotfix thread has been massively derailed by wild attacks and demands placed on Devs and players alike by one person, who is only armed with a few personal opinons, although contradictory in nature, is still based on a build replaced 12 months ago. Instead of all of this doomsday foretelling of what would happen if swarms lost 25m of lock on range, i would have expected people to revolt about swarms will now miss a hard manuevering, yank and bank dropship. Having to run 25m closer to an HAV or DS puts you 25m closer to the optimal range of RR and ScR. Infantry is the reason rational people like myself do not like the range nerf on swarms. So you think you should be able to stand in perfect safety outside of the battle? dropships aren't engaging at 175 m anyway. And we find out your there by the first swarms hitting us, meaning the second set is in the air. We could really use a lock on warning & maybe allow us to see who is locking on, that would even it up a bit.
i made a lock on warning thread three years ago and ive never flown a durpship
dust 514 ruined console gaming for me
pc master race
PORT IT CCP
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|
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 01:53:00 -
[491] - Quote
Booby Tuesdays wrote:I will never understand why a few of the popularity contest winners (CPM2) pushed for shield buffs to armor suits under the veil of "linearity". Things could still have been very linear with the armor and shield suits separated by more than just a second or two. Getting all the dropsuits on the same page in regards to not having numbers all over the place, sure. Buffing the recharge and delay of armor based suits? No entiendo.
^ |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 01:58:00 -
[492] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:
Have you tested the old packed locus nades?
On paper, they are beast.
In practice, they often don't even wound.
^ |
Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
945
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 02:10:00 -
[493] - Quote
Booby Tuesdays wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:I will never understand why a few of the popularity contest winners (CPM2) pushed for shield buffs to armor suits under the veil of "linearity". Things could still have been very linear with the armor and shield suits separated by more than just a second or two. Getting all the dropsuits on the same page in regards to not having numbers all over the place, sure. Buffing the recharge and delay of armor based suits? No entiendo. It's not like they have the same recharge rate or shield Hp to begin with. It's hardly gonna make armour suits better cos why would I want 300+ Shields on my armour suit and no damage mods? Cos it recharges slightly quick than before? Id rather have more DPS. The new values for the Gal Logi are now higher than the Min Logi have ever been. On what planet does that make sense?
No they aren't. Check your numbers before you talk crap.
Wanna play eve?
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DeathwindRising
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.09.26 02:19:00 -
[494] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:I will never understand why a few of the popularity contest winners (CPM2) pushed for shield buffs to armor suits under the veil of "linearity". Things could still have been very linear with the armor and shield suits separated by more than just a second or two. Getting all the dropsuits on the same page in regards to not having numbers all over the place, sure. Buffing the recharge and delay of armor based suits? No entiendo. It's not like they have the same recharge rate or shield Hp to begin with. It's hardly gonna make armour suits better cos why would I want 300+ Shields on my armour suit and no damage mods? Cos it recharges slightly quick than before? Id rather have more DPS. The new values for the Gal Logi are now higher than the Min Logi have ever been. On what planet does that make sense? No they aren't. Check your numbers before you talk crap.
the armor suit shield values are bs imo. was never expecting that. you could honestly use your shields far more effectively while armor tanking than before, despite the fact that theyll still be able to get reps.
my expectation at this point is to increase the penalty of shield extenders drastically to counter any use of them on armor suits |
Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 02:20:00 -
[495] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:
-Minmando players who skilled it for the swarm bonus are getting screwed over; there's no explicit reason why the bonus changed suits other than lore (which is pretty poor if you ask me, see Min scouts and NKs)
I need to chime in here: nova knives are not a Caldari weapon. Anymore than the Ishukone Assault SMG is a caldari weapon. It is a Minmatar weapon produced by a Caldari company.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
945
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 02:23:00 -
[496] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:I will never understand why a few of the popularity contest winners (CPM2) pushed for shield buffs to armor suits under the veil of "linearity". Things could still have been very linear with the armor and shield suits separated by more than just a second or two. Getting all the dropsuits on the same page in regards to not having numbers all over the place, sure. Buffing the recharge and delay of armor based suits? No entiendo. It's not like they have the same recharge rate or shield Hp to begin with. It's hardly gonna make armour suits better cos why would I want 300+ Shields on my armour suit and no damage mods? Cos it recharges slightly quick than before? Id rather have more DPS. The new values for the Gal Logi are now higher than the Min Logi have ever been. On what planet does that make sense? No they aren't. Check your numbers before you talk crap. the armor suit shield values are bs imo. was never expecting that. you could honestly use your shields far more effectively while armor tanking than before, despite the fact that theyll still be able to get reps. my expectation at this point is to increase the penalty of shield extenders drastically to counter any use of them on armor suits
to get the recharge rate of a shield suit you would need to use about 2-3 regs in the low slots. In what way does that make shield tanking on an armour suit viable?
Wanna play eve?
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Daddrobit
You Can Call Me Daddy
1
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Posted - 2015.09.26 02:26:00 -
[497] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Daddrobit wrote:
Objections to the nades aren't about how it was handled by having progression only affect blast radius, our objection is that everyone and their mother who carries even a basic nade will now have two 600 damage thunder nuggets in their pocket. We figured, (when this idea has been asked for before) that they would normalize damage to around the advanced tier, something like 450 damage.
As it stands with the new changes, even a milita nade will do old core damage.
Which is goddamned bonkers if you ask me.
Have you tested the old packed locus nades? On paper, they are beast. In practice, they often don't even wound. Blast radius equals to practical damage, I tell you. It's all about damage projection. All having 600 damage should not be a concern.
Ok, but these -don't- have the blast radius of the packed locus they have better. I religiously fit my militia bpo nades on all of my suits and can fairly consistently snag kills with them killing people around corners or on ledges even with just half the damage of the proposed values.
Grenades aren't difficult to use (bar the occasional odd ricochet off of an invisible object) and everyone having access to such a devastating amount of damage for little to nothing is not a good idea.
O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
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Mortedeamor
The Black Masquerade
1
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Posted - 2015.09.26 02:48:00 -
[498] - Quote
Daddrobit wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Daddrobit wrote:
Objections to the nades aren't about how it was handled by having progression only affect blast radius, our objection is that everyone and their mother who carries even a basic nade will now have two 600 damage thunder nuggets in their pocket. We figured, (when this idea has been asked for before) that they would normalize damage to around the advanced tier, something like 450 damage.
As it stands with the new changes, even a milita nade will do old core damage.
Which is goddamned bonkers if you ask me.
Have you tested the old packed locus nades? On paper, they are beast. In practice, they often don't even wound. Blast radius equals to practical damage, I tell you. It's all about damage projection. All having 600 damage should not be a concern. Ok, but these -don't- have the blast radius of the packed locus they have better. I religiously fit my militia bpo nades on all of my suits and can fairly consistently snag kills with them killing people around corners or on ledges even with just half the damage of the proposed values. Grenades aren't difficult to use (bar the occasional odd ricochet off of an invisible object) and everyone having access to such a devastating amount of damage for little to nothing is not a good idea.
thank you well said kittens sake
dust 514 ruined console gaming for me
pc master race
PORT IT CCP
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DeathwindRising
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.09.26 03:01:00 -
[499] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:
to get the recharge rate of a shield suit you would need to use about 2-3 regs in the low slots. In what way does that make shield tanking on an armour suit viable?
not true. because of how they handled the "depleted" delays vs the normal delays. an armor tanking suit would ignore the delay as they do currently, instead focusing on the dpleted delay which has been made shorter than the normal delay.
amarr assaults need only 1 shield regulator to reach minmatar base depleted delays.
gallente assault could use only 1 shield regulator to reach a 2.46 second depleted delay.
the issue is that you benefit more from losing all your shields than trying not to lose them. that seems backwards and biased towards helping armor tankers
without the incentive for keeping your shields from falling below zero, we degrade the value of shield regulators. so id say either to increase the penalty on extenders or buff the bonus on shield regulators' normal delay |
RedBleach LeSanglant
Immortal Guides
Learning Alliance
878
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Posted - 2015.09.26 03:18:00 -
[500] - Quote
I like the majority of this update. Awesome and well done. Please allow me to expand on the small piece I disagree on.
Swarms - I disagree with the distance reduction. Finding that In several battles this week they just hovered out of range and shot at me. I would prefer to introduce the other two changes, of the proposed three, and wait to introduce the distance nerf. Playing an AV Logi... I die alot because the sidearms are more of a decoration than a threat in my hands. The most common situation I face with them is that once the DS is located, even if I saw it spawn in out of range, they are either heading to my position - on a mushroom for example or headed to an elevation I cant reach, the mushroom, while I am running around on the ground. I find that with their speed and the current lock on time I am often only able to fire off 1 volley before they are on top of me, given their speeds. I would estimate that less than half the time (35-40%) I can fire a second before they land/begin opening fire/ or hit afterburners. Most often they press my position and then I die because they got me or an enemy observer did with a 50/50 on me tossing a few nades to destroy the dropship before it lands on my face or the enemy combatant jumps out and shoots me dead.
My experience with swarms right now is that it is very difficult for me to take out an ADS. Scare them off? Maybe, but only if there are two or more of us on the point (go team sidearm!). Or they make it to the destination that is out of my range or blocked by the buildings. If I'm on the ground I am usually a minor threat, and I run only ProSwarms (nothing else is can hurt more than an LAV). That being said I do get credit for destroying some DSs, but it is uncommon that that is because of Alpha damage. Often it is because my Hit or two throws it off balance and the pilot over corrects into a surface. They are hard to control, I certainly respect them for that.
So I can see that a nerf to the force of the Swarms is a smart move if a nerf must be done. And the turn radius reduction is an awesome counter for a good pilot, but a range nerf seems to much in my experience.
2. NADES and 600?! That is nearly Vegeta screaming,"over 5,000" because I'm as surprised as he is at the value. APEX suits, and most fittings logi and assault that aren't brick tanked are nearly that amount. If the current idea is that every player has an I win tool for all but a Sentinal is a strange idea to me, IF that is the vision of CCP... But I don't think it is. I think it is just a number pulled from space. My standard logis, and even advanced are right around that mark. Most of them have a combined HP total of just over 500. Sure proto is more, but for the common man and everyone running scouts that OHK damage is outrageous.
Sure I am mowed down in what feels like 2-3 seconds (or less) by the RRs and Scrams and CRs but at least that took my opponent some skill. Just lobbing mini nukes to grab a fee kill or two before the two teams collide in battle and shoot it out is lame and just feels cheap. Locus Cores feels that way now. Just cheap. No fun, no battle, just a fee kill on most suits. But a grenade finisher or a toss that just softens up the enemy is cool. It doesn't eliminate TTK and it requires a bit more skill to place to take on a stronger opponent if they are coming at you. And you have to take them on. You have to engage.
And taking a little bit of thought at the tactic that must be used - shoot first then grenade or grenade then shoot maybe all head shots - that is good. It builds pressure and ensures that it is not a twitch shooter with a broken weapon (grenade). Knowing that there is never a chance to take out your enemy unless can throw it better or faster just makes it a as lame as a simulation game of toss, or quick draw - and I dont want to play those games.
Standardizing the damage within the range of 300 - 400 would be better in my opinion.
Awesome patch, I'm excited.
The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower
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Bremen van Equis
Incorruptibles
735
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Posted - 2015.09.26 04:03:00 -
[501] - Quote
Keep that QQ about swarms coming, kids. Show those devs just how many players have been leaning on an over performing weapon. 
Buckle up, boysGǪthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
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Posted - 2015.09.26 05:13:00 -
[502] - Quote
Just stumbled across some interesting, insightful and timely feedback on Swarm v Dropship interplay:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on7rbcJRQeI
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Booby Tuesdays
Bad Mother Thukkers
1
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Posted - 2015.09.26 05:36:00 -
[503] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:
The new values for the Gal Logi are now higher than the Min Logi have ever been. On what planet does that make sense?
No they aren't. Check your numbers before you talk crap.
Old Min Logi:
20 shield recharge per second
5 second recharge delay
6 second depleted delay
6 damage threshold
New Gal Logi
25 shield recharge per second
5 second recharge delay
4 second depleted delay
9 damage threshold
How in any way shape or form am I "talking crap"? Please, enlighten me. 
Half Assed Forum Warrior - Half Decent Commando - Damn Good Logi - Matari Freedom Fighter lvl 8
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SgtNoNeck Wasssup
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
408
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Posted - 2015.09.26 06:02:00 -
[504] - Quote
Soo when is my min assault getting its second bonus hmm?? |
Samantha Hunyz
Mannar Focused Warfare
Gallente Federation
200
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Posted - 2015.09.26 06:41:00 -
[505] - Quote
Well I'm disappointed. I do recall seeing and participating in CPM request for sniper rifle issues, yet I see no fix for the SR mentioned in this thread.
I guess with the calmando now FOTM AV, I can dust those suits off and become fulltime AV.
Better yet, I'll just do the sane thing and stop playing yet once again.
When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
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FireBirdStar
Dead Man's Game
48
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Posted - 2015.09.26 07:09:00 -
[506] - Quote
Quafe Weapons Not tradeable. .........
Ratman plz
Born Gallente, Pure Caldari
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
445
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Posted - 2015.09.26 07:28:00 -
[507] - Quote
FireBirdStar wrote:Quafe Weapons Not tradeable. .........
Ratman plz
'Quafe' Weapons might be trade-able...they are Standard Weapons after all
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
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FireBirdStar
Dead Man's Game
48
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Posted - 2015.09.26 07:36:00 -
[508] - Quote
Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:FireBirdStar wrote:Quafe Weapons Not tradeable. .........
Ratman plz 'Quafe' Weapons might be trade-able...they are Standard Weapons after all
Look Doc he Change it to Std Dropsuit Bpos
Born Gallente, Pure Caldari
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
445
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Posted - 2015.09.26 07:49:00 -
[509] - Quote
FireBirdStar wrote:Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:FireBirdStar wrote:Quafe Weapons Not tradeable. .........
Ratman plz 'Quafe' Weapons might be trade-able...they are Standard Weapons after all Look Doc he Change it to Std Dropsuit Bpos
damn...oh well...maybe eventually?
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
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Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
948
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 08:15:00 -
[510] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:
to get the recharge rate of a shield suit you would need to use about 2-3 regs in the low slots. In what way does that make shield tanking on an armour suit viable?
not true. because of how they handled the "depleted" delays vs the normal delays. an armor tanking suit would ignore the delay as they do currently, instead focusing on the dpleted delay which has been made shorter than the normal delay. amarr assaults need only 1 shield regulator to reach minmatar base depleted delays. gallente assault could use only 1 shield regulator to reach a 2.46 second depleted delay. the issue is that you benefit more from losing all your shields than trying not to lose them. that seems backwards and biased towards helping armor tankers without the incentive for keeping your shields from falling below zero, we degrade the value of shield regulators. so id say either to increase the penalty on extenders or buff the bonus on shield regulators' normal delay
A reg doesn't lower the delay by 50%, it lowers it by around 40 so Base delay would go to about 3 seconds. This is before taking into account adding adding shield extenders, so in order for an armour suit to get the same delay values as a shield suit it would require 2 regs. Shield tanking an armour suit is not worth it.
Wanna play eve?
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Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
948
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Posted - 2015.09.26 08:24:00 -
[511] - Quote
Booby Tuesdays wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:
The new values for the Gal Logi are now higher than the Min Logi have ever been. On what planet does that make sense?
No they aren't. Check your numbers before you talk crap. Old Min Logi: 20 shield recharge per second 5 second recharge delay 6 second depleted delay 6 damage threshold New Gal Logi 25 shield recharge per second 5 second recharge delay 4 second depleted delay 9 damage threshold How in any way shape or form am I "talking crap"? Please, enlighten me.
Because the min logi is getting buffed to 40hp/s with a 3.5 second delay. The min logi and every other shield suit will still do it better and will still have better shield values than every armour suit in the game. If you honestly think that normalising shield values on suits is gonna make armour suits better you clearly don't understand that armour suits have crap shield Hp to begin with.
No one is going to try use 3 complex extenders and then waste 2 lows on an armour suit for regulators, I lose so much Hp its not worth it.
Also comparing the old value of the min logi to the proposed Gal logi isnt really showing a huge buff to the Gal when the min by comparison is getting almost half the recharge rate and double the Hp/s.
Wanna play eve?
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.09.26 08:41:00 -
[512] - Quote
Adding on to echo's point, if anything g the new GalLogi getting better bonuses then the current MinLogi speaks more to the MinLogi having garbage shields than the GalLogi being OP.
The only issue with the shield stats I see is the armor suits have very short depleted delays, and that sentinels have better delays than scouts. The depleted delays being faster than normal delays should only apply to the Caldari, since they should rely solely on their shields for tank. The rest should have delays longer than their normal delays, with Min having the shortest and Amarr the longest.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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ZED Regent
RabbitGang
13 COILS
446
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 08:58:00 -
[513] - Quote
FireBirdStar wrote:Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:FireBirdStar wrote:Quafe Weapons Not tradeable. .........
Ratman plz 'Quafe' Weapons might be trade-able...they are Standard Weapons after all Look Doc he Change it to Std Dropsuit Bpos
I wonder why....
Makes me sad....
eh....eh.... french flies.... eh...eh eh....
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.26 09:05:00 -
[514] - Quote
Having to run 25m closer to an HAV or DS puts you 25m closer to the optimal range of RR and ScR. Infantry is the reason rational people like myself do not like the range nerf on swarms.[/quote]
I am going to use proto fits, because they have the ranges and sliders that tell you what damage any given weapon does at what range.
Lets take a look at the Opimal ranges and damages of both
A Rail Rfile is 75m, effective range is 100m, We are concerned with 150m and Prototype stats.
Damage 75m : 397 base DPS, per round 51.70
Damage 100m: 139.19 base DPS, per round does 18.09
Damage at 150m: 92.8 base DPS, per round does 12.06 damage.
vs shields 10.86
Scrambler rifle:
Damage 75m : 715 base DPS, per round 71.5
Damage 100m: 243.75 base DPS, per round does 24.38
Damage at 150m: 92.8 base DPS, per round does 16.25 damage.
vs shields 22.43
At 150, sure you can be hit and take damage.
Compared to swarm fits:
412 (base shield) Minandos, at 150m Kalikiota RR needs 37.75 consecutive hits to break your shields,
Viziam needs 18.36
Calmandos (500 base shield) Kalikioota RR needs 46 consecutive hits to break shields Viziam needs 22.2 consecutive hits to break shields.
Whitout counting armor, both prototype weapons have to stop to either reload or deal with overheat. Thats if they hit you with every single shot they fire from 150m. Thats plenty of warning to stop looking at the sky.
At 150m, I think you are going to be alright from the troops. If anything I would be more worried about HAVs, who can sit still, take punishment and thier gunners have time to sight you. But only slightly worried.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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XxGhazbaranxX
0.P.
2
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Posted - 2015.09.26 09:11:00 -
[515] - Quote
I love the grenade changes. I-¦m a Thukker tribe fanboy and it always killed me not being able to use thukker grenades cause they were crap. Now I the to see them In the killfeed once in a while.
On a completely different but similar topic. I believe that the splash radius of Flux grenades should be increased considerably at least at prototype level. There really is no incentive to use anything beyond std and the damage increase at proto is really a nonfactor since there is no suit with that much shield. Normalize the shield damage to adv and add an extra 2 meters at proto level.
That will make them usefull at pro level.
Plasma Cannon Advocate
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ZED Regent
RabbitGang
13 COILS
446
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Posted - 2015.09.26 09:22:00 -
[516] - Quote
XxGhazbaranxX wrote:I love the grenade changes. I-¦m a Thukker tribe fanboy and it always killed me not being able to use thukker grenades cause they were crap. Now I the to see them In the killfeed once in a while.
On a completely different but similar topic. I believe that the splash radius of Flux grenades should be increased considerably at least at prototype level. There really is no incentive to use anything beyond std and the damage increase at proto is really a nonfactor since there is no suit with that much shield. Normalize the shield damage to adv and add an extra 2 meters at proto level.
That will make them usefull at pro level.
Does the flux also works on HAV?
In that case, adv and proto do makes sense....
eh....eh.... french flies.... eh...eh eh....
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Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.09.26 09:29:00 -
[517] - Quote
ZED Regent wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote:I love the grenade changes. I-¦m a Thukker tribe fanboy and it always killed me not being able to use thukker grenades cause they were crap. Now I the to see them In the killfeed once in a while.
On a completely different but similar topic. I believe that the splash radius of Flux grenades should be increased considerably at least at prototype level. There really is no incentive to use anything beyond std and the damage increase at proto is really a nonfactor since there is no suit with that much shield. Normalize the shield damage to adv and add an extra 2 meters at proto level.
That will make them usefull at pro level. Does the flux also works on HAV? In that case, adv and proto do makes sense.... They work, but try to throw a flux nade at a moving vehicle and you'll understand why adv and proto don't make sense x)
Bring your daughter... TO THE SLAUGHTER !
- Sequal Rise
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ZED Regent
RabbitGang
13 COILS
446
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Posted - 2015.09.26 09:33:00 -
[518] - Quote
Sequal's Back wrote:ZED Regent wrote:XxGhazbaranxX wrote:I love the grenade changes. I-¦m a Thukker tribe fanboy and it always killed me not being able to use thukker grenades cause they were crap. Now I the to see them In the killfeed once in a while.
On a completely different but similar topic. I believe that the splash radius of Flux grenades should be increased considerably at least at prototype level. There really is no incentive to use anything beyond std and the damage increase at proto is really a nonfactor since there is no suit with that much shield. Normalize the shield damage to adv and add an extra 2 meters at proto level.
That will make them usefull at pro level. Does the flux also works on HAV? In that case, adv and proto do makes sense.... They work, but try to throw a flux nade at a moving vehicle and you'll understand why adv and proto don't make sense x)
Well... you can tell from my reaction that i'm not really into AV.... XD
eh....eh.... french flies.... eh...eh eh....
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Foo Fighting
Blank Application
527
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Posted - 2015.09.26 09:45:00 -
[519] - Quote
ZED Regent wrote:FireBirdStar wrote:Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:FireBirdStar wrote:Quafe Weapons Not tradeable. .........
Ratman plz 'Quafe' Weapons might be trade-able...they are Standard Weapons after all Look Doc he Change it to Std Dropsuit Bpos I wonder why.... Makes me sad....
Why change this after the announcement? All feedback has been positive on this point.
According to this thread the two main areas of concern are grenades and AV balance - not BPO weapon trading.
CPM let's see you try to get this changed back. |
ID G4f
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
30
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Posted - 2015.09.26 10:06:00 -
[520] - Quote
Foo Fighting wrote:ZED Regent wrote:FireBirdStar wrote:Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:FireBirdStar wrote:Quafe Weapons Not tradeable. .........
Ratman plz 'Quafe' Weapons might be trade-able...they are Standard Weapons after all Look Doc he Change it to Std Dropsuit Bpos I wonder why.... Makes me sad.... Why change this after the announcement? All feedback has been positive on this point. According to this thread the two main areas of concern are grenades and AV balance - not BPO weapon trading. CPM let's see you try to get this changed back.
I bet it has more to do with time it takes to make bpo's tradable or worries on stressing the trade system too much.
85mil sp and counting
ID's Escrow - trade safe
Bernie sanders for president! Finally a president of the people
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Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
949
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Posted - 2015.09.26 10:49:00 -
[521] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Having to run 25m closer to an HAV or DS puts you 25m closer to the optimal range of RR and ScR. Infantry is the reason rational people like myself do not like the range nerf on swarms. I am going to use proto fits, because they have the ranges and sliders that tell you what damage any given weapon does at what range. Lets take a look at the Opimal ranges and damages of both A Rail Rfile is 75m, effective range is 100m, We are concerned with 150m and Prototype stats. Damage 75m : 397 base DPS, per round 51.70 Damage 100m: 139.19 base DPS, per round does 18.09 Damage at 150m: 92.8 base DPS, per round does 12.06 damage. vs shields 10.86 Scrambler rifle: Damage 75m : 715 base DPS, per round 71.5 Damage 100m: 243.75 base DPS, per round does 24.38 Damage at 150m: 92.8 base DPS, per round does 16.25 damage. vs shields 22.43 At 150, sure you can be hit and take damage. Compared to swarm fits: 412 (base shield) Minandos, at 150m Kalikiota RR needs 37.75 consecutive hits to break your shields, Viziam needs 18.36 Calmandos (500 base shield) Kalikioota RR needs 46 consecutive hits to break shields Viziam needs 22.2 consecutive hits to break shields. Whitout counting armor, both prototype weapons have to stop to either reload or deal with overheat. Thats if they hit you with every single shot they fire from 150m. Thats plenty of warning to stop looking at the sky. At 150m, I think you are going to be alright from the troops. If anything I would be more worried about HAVs, who can sit still, take punishment and thier gunners have time to sight you. But only slightly worried.
That's on the assumption that all their troops are standing next to the tank. We both know that won't happen ever. Short of you being in the redline, or the enemy tank being in its own redline, enemies are almost always gonna be within range of you unless the area is cleared.
The problem with swarms has never been range. The damage projection it has is crazy because of how fast it fires and how much damage it can deal per volley.
Wanna play eve?
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ID G4f
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
30
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Posted - 2015.09.26 11:14:00 -
[522] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Tesfa Alem wrote:Having to run 25m closer to an HAV or DS puts you 25m closer to the optimal range of RR and ScR. Infantry is the reason rational people like myself do not like the range nerf on swarms. I am going to use proto fits, because they have the ranges and sliders that tell you what damage any given weapon does at what range. Lets take a look at the Opimal ranges and damages of both A Rail Rfile is 75m, effective range is 100m, We are concerned with 150m and Prototype stats. Damage 75m : 397 base DPS, per round 51.70 Damage 100m: 139.19 base DPS, per round does 18.09 Damage at 150m: 92.8 base DPS, per round does 12.06 damage. vs shields 10.86 Scrambler rifle: Damage 75m : 715 base DPS, per round 71.5 Damage 100m: 243.75 base DPS, per round does 24.38 Damage at 150m: 92.8 base DPS, per round does 16.25 damage. vs shields 22.43 At 150, sure you can be hit and take damage. Compared to swarm fits: 412 (base shield) Minandos, at 150m Kalikiota RR needs 37.75 consecutive hits to break your shields, Viziam needs 18.36 Calmandos (500 base shield) Kalikioota RR needs 46 consecutive hits to break shields Viziam needs 22.2 consecutive hits to break shields. Whitout counting armor, both prototype weapons have to stop to either reload or deal with overheat. Thats if they hit you with every single shot they fire from 150m. Thats plenty of warning to stop looking at the sky. At 150m, I think you are going to be alright from the troops. If anything I would be more worried about HAVs, who can sit still, take punishment and thier gunners have time to sight you. But only slightly worried. That's on the assumption that all their troops are standing next to the tank. We both know that won't happen ever. Short of you being in the redline, or the enemy tank being in its own redline, enemies are almost always gonna be within range of you unless the area is cleared. The problem with swarms has never been range. The damage projection it has is crazy because of how fast it fires and how much damage it can deal per volley.
And the fact you usually find out the swarmer is near by the first volly hitting you. Meaning the second volly is most likely in the air and you are getting ready to start locking on the third. With the hardner delay vehicles must have hardeners on before we know there is a reason for them. Again, i think even with swarm nerf, the overall bonus to potential av damage in the form of all explosives, melee, nk, ect. Nobody will be willing to bleed isk that fast. Tanking is dead. ads will only survive because flying is fun.
85mil sp and counting
ID's Escrow - trade safe
Bernie sanders for president! Finally a president of the people
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CommanderBolt
Dead Man's Game
4
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Posted - 2015.09.26 11:14:00 -
[523] - Quote
lol I think I need my eyes testing, earlier in this thread I swear that I read that the "forge gun is useless at range vs dropships" Lmao.
Do you guys actually even play the game or just sit around on the forums chatting absolute BS?
"Madness how we turned our common-ground into a battle-ground.." - Essa
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Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
949
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Posted - 2015.09.26 11:55:00 -
[524] - Quote
ID G4f wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Tesfa Alem wrote:Having to run 25m closer to an HAV or DS puts you 25m closer to the optimal range of RR and ScR. Infantry is the reason rational people like myself do not like the range nerf on swarms. I am going to use proto fits, because they have the ranges and sliders that tell you what damage any given weapon does at what range. Lets take a look at the Opimal ranges and damages of both A Rail Rfile is 75m, effective range is 100m, We are concerned with 150m and Prototype stats. Damage 75m : 397 base DPS, per round 51.70 Damage 100m: 139.19 base DPS, per round does 18.09 Damage at 150m: 92.8 base DPS, per round does 12.06 damage. vs shields 10.86 Scrambler rifle: Damage 75m : 715 base DPS, per round 71.5 Damage 100m: 243.75 base DPS, per round does 24.38 Damage at 150m: 92.8 base DPS, per round does 16.25 damage. vs shields 22.43 At 150, sure you can be hit and take damage. Compared to swarm fits: 412 (base shield) Minandos, at 150m Kalikiota RR needs 37.75 consecutive hits to break your shields, Viziam needs 18.36 Calmandos (500 base shield) Kalikioota RR needs 46 consecutive hits to break shields Viziam needs 22.2 consecutive hits to break shields. Whitout counting armor, both prototype weapons have to stop to either reload or deal with overheat. Thats if they hit you with every single shot they fire from 150m. Thats plenty of warning to stop looking at the sky. At 150m, I think you are going to be alright from the troops. If anything I would be more worried about HAVs, who can sit still, take punishment and thier gunners have time to sight you. But only slightly worried. That's on the assumption that all their troops are standing next to the tank. We both know that won't happen ever. Short of you being in the redline, or the enemy tank being in its own redline, enemies are almost always gonna be within range of you unless the area is cleared. The problem with swarms has never been range. The damage projection it has is crazy because of how fast it fires and how much damage it can deal per volley. And the fact you usually find out the swarmer is near by the first volly hitting you. Meaning the second volly is most likely in the air and you are getting ready to start locking on the third. With the hardner delay vehicles must have hardeners on before we know there is a reason for them. Again, i think even with swarm nerf, the overall bonus to potential av damage in the form of all explosives, melee, nk, ect. Nobody will be willing to bleed isk that fast. Tanking is dead. ads will only survive because flying is fun.
If you are entering an area that has a heavy infantry presence without your hardeners up, you shouldn't be piloting a vehicle.
You're essentially giving them a free hit and if 2 people have good AV, you're gonna get smacked.
Wanna play eve?
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
26
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Posted - 2015.09.26 12:55:00 -
[525] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Bremen van Equis wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote: Should the range nerf go through, I do not expect Swarms will see much use in the weeks and months following Foxfour. High risk and negligible reward will be to blame. High risk and negligible reward... area denial of a force multiplier is a negligible reward? Are you talking about WP for kills, or usefulness to the team? Maybe I'm wrong but aren't you guys wracking up +75's every time you get more than one volley off? High risk and negligible reward is what current ADS is all about, except maybe in the hands of the most adept pilots. Swarms on a basic Min commando (now Caldari after hotfix) seem to be low risk for lots of points. Are you trying to solo an ADS with swarms, or deny them access to clear a bunch of rooftop spawn points? Hi there. You must've confused me with Soraya; please re-read the very first line of my feedback on the topic: I agree that swarms are too good against dropships. Unfortunately for Swarmers, there's more at play with Swarms than their oppression of dropships. Take Swarms vs HAVs, for example. Why even bother? To answer your question, Swarmers are not being paid +75WP per volley. Swarming is not at all a WP-intensive activity. It is, however, a very high-risk activity. Swarmers tend to die alot. They just do. If you don't care to take my word for it, try it sometime for yourself. Better yet, ask Rattati for Swarm Launcher kill/spawn efficiency numbers.
which is why swarms are also included in the weak spot increase for HAVs
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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shaman oga
Dead Man's Game
4
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Posted - 2015.09.26 13:16:00 -
[526] - Quote
Why does gal ass bonus does not apply to other gal light weapons?
Regressed to blueberry level.
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DATNIGGAROSS fire hounds
UNITED MERCINARY AND PILOTS ALLIANCE
Rise Of Legion.
0
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Posted - 2015.09.26 13:21:00 -
[527] - Quote
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:Are you not entertained? "Max rotation-¦ 50" Commence operation barrel roll. "Dropships are ok, Caldari need a PG buff" Coming soon. Hopefully . When will this happen
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.09.26 13:22:00 -
[528] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:which is why swarms are also included in the weak spot increase for HAVs
Mr Rattati, do you have any data on Swarm/Dropship interactions that'd you'd be able to share? I'd be very interested to see what kind of statistical situation we currently have, pre-FoxFour.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Press Attache
The Office of The Attorney General
152
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 13:44:00 -
[529] - Quote
Massive vehicle nerfs, no corresponding buff in lethality, and no creation of a distinct role for tankers.
Kind of meh.
Like the AV changes, forge should have been the best AV forever, but without a clear role for tanks(transport, scanning, or even as a functioning in PC/FW cru) it just means driving around outside large sockets.
Going to have to record what will surely be ridiculous deaths when infantry come up on masse and beat a tank to death. Jumping plc's were already ridiculous, this next patch should finally kill off vehicles for any competitive use.
Forum representative for Mr. Hybrid Vayu: The Attorney General.
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NextDark Knight
Hellstorm LLC
864
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 14:34:00 -
[530] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:breach range increase
If this range increase is for the breach forge gun can you add that to the excel list found here? You can add the OK later but would like to see it captured please. Thank you Rattati!
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kGcB-k3KTDbNMlVVdRuTJSbk_4gh45xa4ihfIynxUkQ/edit?pli=1#gid=773296322
Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
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Regnier Feros
Pielords
788
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Posted - 2015.09.26 14:49:00 -
[531] - Quote
Press Attache wrote:Massive vehicle nerfs, no corresponding buff in lethality, and no creation of a distinct role for tankers.
Kind of meh.
Like the AV changes, forge should have been the best AV forever, but without a clear role for tanks(transport, scanning, or even as a functioning in PC/FW cru) it just means driving around outside large sockets.
Going to have to record what will surely be ridiculous deaths when infantry come up on masse and beat a tank to death. Jumping plc's were already ridiculous, this next patch should finally kill off vehicles for any competitive use.
Strange, no av laser...............
LongLiveQueenZarZar
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Genral69 death
RAT PATROL INC.
760
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 14:57:00 -
[532] - Quote
I am worried about gunlogis with the Av changes happing, the only advantage the gunlogi has when close to infantry was that small arms would not break its shield regen and would require some actual Av weapons also people going round punching vehicles is completely a stupid idea. I get that you could do actual damage to one but how do you destroy a metal vehicle with your fists :/ and that it would most like break your hands
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 15:07:00 -
[533] - Quote
Genral69 death wrote:I am worried about gunlogis with the Av changes happing, the only advantage the gunlogi has when close to infantry was that small arms would not break its shield regen and would require some actual Av weapons also people going round punching vehicles is completely a stupid idea. I get that you could do actual damage to one but how do you destroy a metal vehicle with your fists :/ and that it would most likely break your hands
Bear in mind that Gunnies are getting a recharge and depleted delay buff,as well as recharge rate buff. With a single PRO Shield Regulator you get a 2.25s recharge delay, which is the same as a max operation AFG's charge time.
It's not all bad for Gunnies!
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.09.26 15:09:00 -
[534] - Quote
Press Attache wrote:Massive vehicle nerfs, no corresponding buff in lethality, and no creation of a distinct role for tankers.
Kind of meh.
Like the AV changes, forge should have been the best AV forever, but without a clear role for tanks(transport, scanning, or even as a functioning in PC/FW cru) it just means driving around outside large sockets.
Going to have to record what will surely be ridiculous deaths when infantry come up on masse and beat a tank to death. Jumping plc's were already ridiculous, this next patch should finally kill off vehicles for any competitive use.
Unfortunately, I do believe that will be the outcome. While I can't say for sure until the changes hit, I do suspect tanks will become a much lesser part of the field than even now.
A tanks role and impact on the battlefield is rather limited even now. Why they must be easier to destroy is beyond me. Those boys on the ground are the ones making any measurable contributions. I could understand this if tanks were like the murder machines of old, but right now they are stale.
While changes don't look HUGE, this will further affect their operational value and ability, which is rather low as is. |
Genral69 death
RAT PATROL INC.
763
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Posted - 2015.09.26 15:12:00 -
[535] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Genral69 death wrote:I am worried about gunlogis with the Av changes happing, the only advantage the gunlogi has when close to infantry was that small arms would not break its shield regen and would require some actual Av weapons also people going round punching vehicles is completely a stupid idea. I get that you could do actual damage to one but how do you destroy a metal vehicle with your fists :/ and that it would most likely break your hands Bear in mind that Gunnies are getting a recharge and depleted delay buff,as well as recharge rate buff. With a single PRO Shield Regulator you get a 2.25s recharge delay, which is the same as a max operation AFG's charge time. It's not all bad for Gunnies!
I wish I could actual fit one on my gunlogi, as they cost way to much space to actually fit on, just like the dispersion stabilizer
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.09.26 15:13:00 -
[536] - Quote
Genral69 death wrote:I wish I could actual fit one on my gunlogi, as they cost way to much space to actually fit on, just like the dispersion stabilizer
Yeah...
Tell that to my Python
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.09.26 15:15:00 -
[537] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Genral69 death wrote:I am worried about gunlogis with the Av changes happing, the only advantage the gunlogi has when close to infantry was that small arms would not break its shield regen and would require some actual Av weapons also people going round punching vehicles is completely a stupid idea. I get that you could do actual damage to one but how do you destroy a metal vehicle with your fists :/ and that it would most likely break your hands Bear in mind that Gunnies are getting a recharge and depleted delay buff,as well as recharge rate buff. With a single PRO Shield Regulator you get a 2.25s recharge delay, which is the same as a max operation AFG's charge time. It's not all bad for Gunnies!
No, but def not enough.
Recharge is just a small part of the issue. Like, have you ever tried fitting a reg to a gunnie? What happens when you do so? And is it worth it over what you lose.
This buff will have nearly no noticeable affect on their performance. |
Genral69 death
RAT PATROL INC.
763
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 15:18:00 -
[538] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Genral69 death wrote:I wish I could actual fit one on my gunlogi, as they cost way to much space to actually fit on, just like the dispersion stabilizer Yeah... Tell that to my Python
On a different note in looking for a new python fitting
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
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Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
536
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Posted - 2015.09.26 15:31:00 -
[539] - Quote
Looks like a lot of work was done
Surprised there was no alteration to super mario bros. moonjumping, instead more incentive to stack myos to punch infantry and vehicles.
Gunlogi having faster recovery is welcome, feel like tanks will be seldom seen on a map for more than a drive by before it is recalled or popped... return of the deep redline tank. Any vehicle short of proto will pop like todays Lav with the amount of AV, guessing flaylocks for everyone?
Nade buff seems to coincide with gallente buff... odd that ccp actually worked on two sides of an equation but am guessing it is by chance. Hopefully nade buff stays if gallente will have equivilent of better than 2 built in damage mods on assualt rifles as well as a chance to stack 3 more without penalty. Seems like a bit much.
Caldari shield buff will be interesting to try out, still not sure why logi shields were buffed higher than assaults but why complain, my be time to dust off cal logi to absorb some nade spam while dishing it out.
Nice to see so many changes.. looks like lavs and tanks will all but disappear, with somewhat of a return of dropships... going to be annoying with the amount of high camping swarm/mass driver commandos, the return of Blast Damage 514... moonjumping nade spam, flaylock spam, mass driver spam and gall assault with 30% damage bonus on tac AR.... see what happens I guess, I'm sure i'll make someones melee HAV compilation video.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
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Posted - 2015.09.26 15:33:00 -
[540] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Bremen van Equis wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote: Should the range nerf go through, I do not expect Swarms will see much use in the weeks and months following Foxfour. High risk and negligible reward will be to blame. High risk and negligible reward... area denial of a force multiplier is a negligible reward? Are you talking about WP for kills, or usefulness to the team? Maybe I'm wrong but aren't you guys wracking up +75's every time you get more than one volley off? High risk and negligible reward is what current ADS is all about, except maybe in the hands of the most adept pilots. Swarms on a basic Min commando (now Caldari after hotfix) seem to be low risk for lots of points. Are you trying to solo an ADS with swarms, or deny them access to clear a bunch of rooftop spawn points? Hi there. You must've confused me with Soraya; please re-read the very first line of my feedback on the topic: I agree that swarms are too good against dropships. Unfortunately for Swarmers, there's more at play with Swarms than their oppression of dropships. Take Swarms vs HAVs, for example. Why even bother? To answer your question, Swarmers are not being paid +75WP per volley. Swarming is not at all a WP-intensive activity. It is, however, a very high-risk activity. Swarmers tend to die alot. They just do. If you don't care to take my word for it, try it sometime for yourself. Better yet, ask Rattati for Swarm Launcher kill/spawn efficiency numbers. which is why swarms are also included in the weak spot increase for HAVs
I did not realize this.
When I looked at the 'HAV Weak Points' sheet the Google Doc, I saw Swarm Launcher listed under 'Old Weak Point Multipliers' and did not see it listed under 'New Weak Point Multipliers'. Figured it must've been grouped in with "explosive handheld weapons" but then recalled reading that you were changing the profile from "explosive handheld" to "missile handheld".
I was under the impression that the Swarms would not benefit from the new HAV Weakspot changes.
Thanks for the clarification. Revising my earlier positions on Swarms. |
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Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
536
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 15:34:00 -
[541] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Genral69 death wrote:I am worried about gunlogis with the Av changes happing, the only advantage the gunlogi has when close to infantry was that small arms would not break its shield regen and would require some actual Av weapons also people going round punching vehicles is completely a stupid idea. I get that you could do actual damage to one but how do you destroy a metal vehicle with your fists :/ and that it would most likely break your hands Bear in mind that Gunnies are getting a recharge and depleted delay buff,as well as recharge rate buff. With a single PRO Shield Regulator you get a 2.25s recharge delay, which is the same as a max operation AFG's charge time. It's not all bad for Gunnies! No, but def not enough. Recharge is just a small part of the issue. Like, have you ever tried fitting a reg to a gunnie? What happens when you do so? And is it worth it over what you lose. This buff will have nearly no noticeable affect on their performance.
Will help Gunlogi recover faster in redline which is likely where the Madrugers will also be... I guess it's time to start asking for raill range buffs to have something to do back there....
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Templar XIII
Vherokior Combat Logistics
213
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 15:39:00 -
[542] - Quote
Any Info as to wether SKINification is to be continued for Amarr Templar suits (AM-M, AM-H), Dragonfly suits (GA-L, CA-M), MN-M Sever, general Proto Suit SKINs and all other APEX/LP suits (especially the Amarr Seraph golden SKIN) ?
And still no info on Amarr heavy (AV or not) weaponry? Rattati, please speak...
"Purchase Aurum, today!" - The Scriptures, Book XIII 1:22
The power of Quafe compels you!
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Genral69 death
RAT PATROL INC.
763
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 15:46:00 -
[543] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Genral69 death wrote:I am worried about gunlogis with the Av changes happing, the only advantage the gunlogi has when close to infantry was that small arms would not break its shield regen and would require some actual Av weapons also people going round punching vehicles is completely a stupid idea. I get that you could do actual damage to one but how do you destroy a metal vehicle with your fists :/ and that it would most likely break your hands Bear in mind that Gunnies are getting a recharge and depleted delay buff,as well as recharge rate buff. With a single PRO Shield Regulator you get a 2.25s recharge delay, which is the same as a max operation AFG's charge time. It's not all bad for Gunnies! No, but def not enough. Recharge is just a small part of the issue. Like, have you ever tried fitting a reg to a gunnie? What happens when you do so? And is it worth it over what you lose. This buff will have nearly no noticeable affect on their performance. Will help Gunlogi recover faster in redline which is likely where the Madrugers will also be... I guess it's time to start asking for raill range buffs to have something to do back there....
Lol, you assume gunlogi only rail from the redline, I use a gunlogi with a large blaster right in the enemy's faces , id take a shield booster over a regulator any day
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
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ID G4f
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
34
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Posted - 2015.09.26 16:00:00 -
[544] - Quote
Genral69 death wrote:Doc DDD wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Genral69 death wrote:I am worried about gunlogis with the Av changes happing, the only advantage the gunlogi has when close to infantry was that small arms would not break its shield regen and would require some actual Av weapons also people going round punching vehicles is completely a stupid idea. I get that you could do actual damage to one but how do you destroy a metal vehicle with your fists :/ and that it would most likely break your hands Bear in mind that Gunnies are getting a recharge and depleted delay buff,as well as recharge rate buff. With a single PRO Shield Regulator you get a 2.25s recharge delay, which is the same as a max operation AFG's charge time. It's not all bad for Gunnies! No, but def not enough. Recharge is just a small part of the issue. Like, have you ever tried fitting a reg to a gunnie? What happens when you do so? And is it worth it over what you lose. This buff will have nearly no noticeable affect on their performance. Will help Gunlogi recover faster in redline which is likely where the Madrugers will also be... I guess it's time to start asking for raill range buffs to have something to do back there.... Lol, you assume gunlogi only rail from the redline, I use a gunlogi with a large blaster right in the enemy's faces , id take a shield booster over a regulator any day
With every red suit now carrying av (all nades can be used for av now. As well as melee, and I'm betting we will see flaylocks galore) I think you are underestimating new av numbers and over playing your ability to overcome it.
85mil sp and counting
ID's Escrow - trade safe
Bernie sanders for president! Finally a president of the people
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
2
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Posted - 2015.09.26 16:04:00 -
[545] - Quote
Templar XIII wrote:Any Info as to wether SKINification is to be continued for Amarr Templar suits (AM-M, AM-H), Dragonfly suits (GA-L, CA-M), MN-M Sever, general Proto Suit SKINs and all other APEX/LP suits (especially the Amarr Seraph golden SKIN) ?
And still no info on Amarr heavy (AV or not) weaponry? Rattati, please speak...
What you're talking about would come in a patch, not a Hotfix
"The unexamined life is not worth living."
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4lbert Wesker
Standby Retaliation
510
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 16:04:00 -
[546] - Quote
Any word about nerfing jumping with myo?
WESKER S.T.A.R.S. is not my corporation!
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Genral69 death
RAT PATROL INC.
764
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 16:07:00 -
[547] - Quote
[/quote]
Lol, you assume gunlogi only rail from the redline, I use a gunlogi with a large blaster right in the enemy's faces , id take a shield booster over a regulator any day[/quote]
With every red suit now carrying av (all nades can be used for av now. As well as melee, and I'm betting we will see flaylocks galore) I think you are underestimating new av numbers and over playing your ability to overcome it.
[/quote]
Perhaps but will have to see how it turns out
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
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Regnier Feros
Pielords
790
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 16:07:00 -
[548] - Quote
4lbert Wesker wrote:Any word about a av laser rifle variant?
+1
LongLiveQueenZarZar
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Mikel Arias
Challengers 506
206
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Posted - 2015.09.26 16:09:00 -
[549] - Quote
So no date yet? I really want to start using a gallente assault again!!! |
Genral69 death
RAT PATROL INC.
766
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 16:13:00 -
[550] - Quote
Hmm just thought would the explosion from a just destroyed vehicle kill the guy that melee it? . You can die from knifing a tank to death so y not melee. As with melee you have to be 1.5 meters from it
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
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Benjamin Ciscko
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 16:48:00 -
[551] - Quote
Genral69 death wrote:Hmm just thought would the explosion from a just destroyed vehicle kill the guy that melee it? . You can die from knifing a tank to death so y not melee. As with melee you have to be 1.5 meters from it
1/10 learn to troll better. |
Booby Tuesdays
Bad Mother Thukkers
1
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Posted - 2015.09.26 17:30:00 -
[552] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:
Having to run 25m closer to an HAV or DS puts you 25m closer to the optimal range of RR and ScR. Infantry is the reason rational people like myself do not like the range nerf on swarms.
I am going to use proto fits, because they have the ranges and sliders that tell you what damage any given weapon does at what range. Lets take a look at the Opimal ranges and damages of both A Rail Rfile is 75m, effective range is 100m, We are concerned with 150m and Prototype stats. Damage 75m : 397 base DPS, per round 51.70 Damage 100m: 139.19 base DPS, per round does 18.09 Damage at 150m: 92.8 base DPS, per round does 12.06 damage. vs shields 10.86 Scrambler rifle: Damage 75m : 715 base DPS, per round 71.5 Damage 100m: 243.75 base DPS, per round does 24.38 Damage at 150m: 92.8 base DPS, per round does 16.25 damage. vs shields 22.43 At 150, sure you can be hit and take damage. Compared to swarm fits: 412 (base shield) Minandos, at 150m Kalikiota RR needs 37.75 consecutive hits to break your shields, Viziam needs 18.36 Calmandos (500 base shield) Kalikioota RR needs 46 consecutive hits to break shields Viziam needs 22.2 consecutive hits to break shields. Whitout counting armor, both prototype weapons have to stop to either reload or deal with overheat. Thats if they hit you with every single shot they fire from 150m. Thats plenty of warning to stop looking at the sky. At 150m, I think you are going to be alright from the troops. If anything I would be more worried about HAVs, who can sit still, take punishment and thier gunners have time to sight you. But only slightly worried.
I completely agree. That also wasn't the point I was trying to make.
Let's say we're on the Bridge Map. The enemy is pushing across the bridge, aided by a red line rail tank, and a blaster tank on the far side of the bridge. The tanks may be within my new 150m range, but his infantry buddies are much closer than that. The more I fall back to avoid infantry, the worse my line of sight is on either vehicle. You would have to be in pretty ideal conditions to just sit back at 150m and fire off swarms. That would be more of a rooftop camper concern than a swarmer on the ground, trying to keep a tank back while his teammates fight off infantry.
Does that make more sense? I hate trying to convey things via text sometimes...
Half Assed Forum Warrior - Half Decent Commando - Damn Good Logi - Matari Freedom Fighter lvl 8
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Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
709
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 19:25:00 -
[553] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Bremen van Equis wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote: Should the range nerf go through, I do not expect Swarms will see much use in the weeks and months following Foxfour. High risk and negligible reward will be to blame. High risk and negligible reward... area denial of a force multiplier is a negligible reward? Are you talking about WP for kills, or usefulness to the team? Maybe I'm wrong but aren't you guys wracking up +75's every time you get more than one volley off? High risk and negligible reward is what current ADS is all about, except maybe in the hands of the most adept pilots. Swarms on a basic Min commando (now Caldari after hotfix) seem to be low risk for lots of points. Are you trying to solo an ADS with swarms, or deny them access to clear a bunch of rooftop spawn points? Hi there. You must've confused me with Soraya; please re-read the very first line of my feedback on the topic: I agree that swarms are too good against dropships. Unfortunately for Swarmers, there's more at play with Swarms than their oppression of dropships. Take Swarms vs HAVs, for example. Why even bother? To answer your question, Swarmers are not being paid +75WP per volley. Swarming is not at all a WP-intensive activity. It is, however, a very high-risk activity. Swarmers tend to die alot. They just do. If you don't care to take my word for it, try it sometime for yourself. Better yet, ask Rattati for Swarm Launcher kill/spawn efficiency numbers. which is why swarms are also included in the weak spot increase for HAVs
Question: Can you add some kind of feedback to hitting a weak spot?
Headshot kills give a sound effect and increased WP.
Maybe there could be a "fuell cell/bottom/etc. vehicle damage" WP reward instead of the ordinary "vehicle damage" reward upon hitting the weakspot?
The weakpoints of vehicles are one of those mechanics that the game really doesn't go out of its way to explain, and this kind of feedback would really help in learning the interaction without constantly lurking the forums.
Also, I'm not a dedicated AV guy, but I kind of wonder how likely it is to accurately heat the weak spot of an HAV with a swarmer. In my experience, the hills are an important piece of cover in that matchup and indirect fire is king.
Then again, it wouldn't be easy with a forge gun, either, unless the HAV is retreating. |
Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.09.26 19:56:00 -
[554] - Quote
Sole Fenychs wrote:
Question: Can you add some kind of feedback to hitting a weak spot?
Headshot kills give a sound effect and increased WP.
Maybe there could be a "fuell cell/bottom/etc. vehicle damage" WP reward instead of the ordinary "vehicle damage" reward upon hitting the weakspot?
The weakpoints of vehicles are one of those mechanics that the game really doesn't go out of its way to explain, and this kind of feedback would really help in learning the interaction without constantly lurking the forums.
Also, I'm not a dedicated AV guy, but I kind of wonder how likely it is to accurately heat the weak spot of an HAV with a swarmer. In my experience, the hills are an important piece of cover in that matchup and indirect fire is king.
Then again, it wouldn't be easy with a forge gun, either, unless the HAV is retreating.
Basically, ambush; wait til the HAV is facing away, then let loose. as AV, you will almost always have the first-mover advantage, so make it count.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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Victor Moody Stahl
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
235
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Posted - 2015.09.26 20:09:00 -
[555] - Quote
Sole Fenychs wrote:Also, I'm not a dedicated AV guy, but I kind of wonder how likely it is to accurately heat the weak spot of an HAV with a swarmer. In my experience, the hills are an important piece of cover in that matchup and indirect fire is king.
Then again, it wouldn't be easy with a forge gun, either, unless the HAV is retreating.
I wouldn't say that I'm a dedicated AV guy either, but in my (admittedly limited) experience, weakspot strikes against vehicles tend to fall into one of two conditions:
1. Surprise attack from behind (I once two shotted a Sica with a STD-level Plasma Cannon... though I do have PLC Prof3 and was using GalMando with L4 suit skill and two basic light damage mods, so YMMV)
2. Random lucky hits.
As far as what weapons work best for it... with Swarms, it's entirely luck. Plasma Cannons and Forges can actually pull of weakspot strikes on purpose, and in fact I've done it to great effect- I've 2-shot a Sica with a PLC*, and IIRC I once 1-shot a Sica with a Forge**.
It's also worth noting that the weakspot of the Madrugar is slightly more difficult to hit, as it's basically sandwiched between the aft track bogeys like a bunghole between cheeks.
OTOH, the Gunnlogi's weakspot isn't nearly as obvious. Common FPS vehicle convention is basically "rear shot=MAXIMUM DAMAGE", which the Gunnlogi doesn't quite follow, given that it's a specific point on the aft of the vehicle. Still easier to hit though, and IIRC I once one-shot a Sica with a STD-level Forge... which was admittedly pretty badass when it happened.
Now, as to my general thoughts about the patchnotes:
BPO Trading
I'm disappointed that it's been changed to only STD-level Dropsuit BPOs, rather than all STD-level BPOs, but I'm willing to believe that this is due to technical limitations at present, or wanting to adjust things as necessary in order to get the right balance of things.
Overall, I definitely support more BPO trading, as I've got a substantial pile of BPOs that I have no need or use of (spare BR Saga, most of a Dren set, at least one spare Covenant Assault C-I and Covenant Sniper Rifle, 3 or 4 Amarr Sentinel BPOs), and a nice list of things I'd like to trade them for.
Sidearm Changes
Loving the changes to the Magsec and the Scrambler Pistol. No comment on the Bolt Pistol; I don't really use it and I doubt that the change would affect me in any meaningful way anyways, as I roll KB/M (unless I'm flying, because derpship KB/M sucks bungus).
Assault SMG changes, IMO, are not so good... however, that's because I think that the Assault SMG should function like a sort of pocket HMG- 2000 rpm, 200 round magazine, probably around 11-12 damage per shot. That would be pretty boss, IMO. Still, the changes do look like they'll make Assault SMGs viable.
Light Weapon Changes
Looking forward to the Breach Shotgun changes- I think that it should help the weapon out a lot, and will make it a very interesting choice for both shotgun scouts and commandos.
Range nerfs for the assault variants of the ScR/RR/CR don't bother me, but I tend to pick the AScR/ARR for a general purpose short-medium range weapon anyways, and the ACR has always been incredibly inconsistent for me so meh on that count.
Scrambler Rifle nerfs are... a mixed bag, IMO. Charge movement penalty is fairly neutral; the main use for the charge in my experience has been cover-to-cover fighting over long range, or attacking opponents who don't know you're there. Heat coefficient will mean that fewer shots can be fired before overheat no matter what, due to the microcharging phenomenon that Aeon Amadi and Thaddeus Reynolds discovered, so claims to the effect that it won't effect non-charged shots are false.
The recoil penalty seems incredibly harsh, but I've heard tell that it's hipfire-only. The probably is that I've seen no dev confirmation that that's the case. If it is hipfire only, then... why? Scrambler Rifles tend to not do well in CQB conditions unless they're confronting enemies that are thinly tanked. If it's actually a general nerf then... by the Empress, may she rest in eternal glory, why do you hate the Scrambler so much Rattati?
Dropsuit Skill Bonus Changes
Generally good, though I think the simpler solution to the CalMando/MinMando Swarm problem is to change Swarm damage from "Explosive -20/+20" to "Hybrid-Railgun -10/+10". Maybe I'm just crazy though.
Should also clarify as to how the recoil bonus on the CalSalt applies, is it hipfire only, ADS only, or both? I personally don't see a problem with "both", but then again I was able to successfully hipfire a regular RR through some 30-ish rounds and insane recoil to kill someone yesterday, so meh.
Dropsuit Shield Changes
I run armor most of the time, but most of these changes look good. A lot of people are sure to complain about how the new armor suit shield recharge/delay stats are better than old shield suits had, but they're just ignoring that the new shield suits are crazy-amazeballs superbadass better.
Grenades
OH GOD NO. Please Ratman, do not do this thing of 600 damage boomnuggets for everyone!
I remember the dark days of locus grenades that supposedly only did 450 or 600 damage blapping 1200+ EHP behemoths in one shot. I don't want that to come back. Balancing locus grenades as having, say, 400-450 splash damage and then increasing the radius would have been perfectly fine. But 600?! NOPE. NOPE NOPE NOPE ALL MY NOPE.
Packed Locus getting higher damage is okay... though not really "900 damage" okay. I'd say maybe 750 at the most. Fused Locus... TBH I think it just needs to go away, and Amarrian grenades that stick to stuff be brought in instead.
Buff Logis | Nerf Scouts
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.26 21:20:00 -
[556] - Quote
Booby Tuesdays wrote:Tesfa Alem wrote:Booby Tuesdays wrote:
Having to run 25m closer to an HAV or DS puts you 25m closer to the optimal range of RR and ScR. Infantry is the reason rational people like myself do not like the range nerf on swarms.
I am going to use proto fits, because they have the ranges and sliders that tell you what damage any given weapon does at what range. Lets take a look at the Opimal ranges and damages of both A Rail Rfile is 75m, effective range is 100m, We are concerned with 150m and Prototype stats. Damage 75m : 397 base DPS, per round 51.70 Damage 100m: 139.19 base DPS, per round does 18.09 Damage at 150m: 92.8 base DPS, per round does 12.06 damage. vs shields 10.86 Scrambler rifle: Damage 75m : 715 base DPS, per round 71.5 Damage 100m: 243.75 base DPS, per round does 24.38 Damage at 150m: 92.8 base DPS, per round does 16.25 damage. vs shields 22.43 At 150, sure you can be hit and take damage. Compared to swarm fits: 412 (base shield) Minandos, at 150m Kalikiota RR needs 37.75 consecutive hits to break your shields, Viziam needs 18.36 Calmandos (500 base shield) Kalikioota RR needs 46 consecutive hits to break shields Viziam needs 22.2 consecutive hits to break shields. Whitout counting armor, both prototype weapons have to stop to either reload or deal with overheat. Thats if they hit you with every single shot they fire from 150m. Thats plenty of warning to stop looking at the sky. At 150m, I think you are going to be alright from the troops. If anything I would be more worried about HAVs, who can sit still, take punishment and thier gunners have time to sight you. But only slightly worried. I completely agree. That also wasn't the point I was trying to make. Let's say we're on the Bridge Map. The enemy is pushing across the bridge, aided by a red line rail tank, and a blaster tank on the far side of the bridge. The tanks may be within my new 150m range, but his infantry buddies are much closer than that. The more I fall back to avoid infantry, the worse my line of sight is on either vehicle. You would have to be in pretty ideal conditions to just sit back at 150m and fire off swarms. That would be more of a rooftop camper concern than a swarmer on the ground, trying to keep a tank back while his teammates fight off infantry. Does that make more sense? I hate trying to convey things via text sometimes...
yeah man those concerns totally make sense. ground swarming in situation like that is pretty dicey, and you have to keep your rifle ready when troops are close.
that being said, 175m, or 150m, or 20th, you still have to be the judge of what's a priority : infantry at close range or tanks at long range. It doesn't matter if you have 400m range swarms if the enemy troops are within 75m and the tank is at 400m. you are still picking the tank as the priority when it's not the closest threat, and leaving your self open to be shot.
This of course applies to ground swarming. rooftop swarming, it frankly doesn't matter because you have effectivley sealed off all access to the roof without suiciding a dropship for 150m radius, or a diameter of 300m, safe to most all infantry except snipers. and that's where the range nerf starts to sound more reasonable. From a rooftop swamper shutting down 350m diameter to a 300m one seems fine to me.
even if you are the most dedicated ground swamper that doesn't mean roof top swarming does not need to be taken into account when looking at the overall picture.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
"I sometimes wonder why I share stuff "- CCP Rattati
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Genral69 death
RAT PATROL INC.
768
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 21:24:00 -
[557] - Quote
Benjamin Ciscko wrote:Genral69 death wrote:Hmm just thought would the explosion from a just destroyed vehicle kill the guy that melee it? . You can die from knifing a tank to death so y not melee. As with melee you have to be 1.5 meters from it 1/10 learn to troll better.
I am no troll sir, I am poseidon god of the sea!
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
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jdom503
Elysium's Electorate
6
|
Posted - 2015.09.26 21:58:00 -
[558] - Quote
The whole buff nerf thing is a ploy to get us for more aur for boosters. It's like this if you're spec into something fully it takes a lot of time or money. If what you have gets nerfed and need to respec or just spec into what has been buffed fast to stay on top you got to cash out. I'm just pointing this out but on a good note I just 5d out my ar and my assault is g so this one helps me but others won't be so lucky. |
abdullah muzaffar
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 00:31:00 -
[559] - Quote
Disagree on a few points
-ACR didn't need a nerf.
-ARR range nerf is OK, needs rof nerf.
-ScR nerf was wrong way to do it.
-Shield regen changes are a bit unbalanced. The sentinel gets shafted.
-WHY THE **** DID YOU ******* SWAP THE SWARM ******* BONUS TO ******* CALMANDO WHY THE -**** DID YOU NOT JUST ******* REMOVE IT?
-Swarm range nerf is dumb. No way to stop hardened throwaway transport ds. Lockon time was the most obvious thing that should have been changed.
-Grenades might be a bit op. Would have kept range same through tiers and only change damage.(-+50 6m). Plus side is you don't need cores if you're skilled enough...
-Why weren't the holdCharge FG variants buffed?
-Can't say much about HAV dmg multipliers.(PLC will be op against shavs)
-Why the **** aren't quafe weapons tradeable?
Only thing I can say are good are the shav regen and modules.
My Trades
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Y-BLOCK
BioCyberDevelopment
54
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Posted - 2015.09.27 02:48:00 -
[560] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:So in nerfing swarm range YET AGAIN, when it badly needed a buff to be able to hit... anything even remotely airborne.... swarms can now only be used against dropships that are parked. Which you are standing next to?
I totally agree!
Now that You've Tasted my Mutton.. How do you Like it!?!
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Y-BLOCK
BioCyberDevelopment
56
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Posted - 2015.09.27 02:53:00 -
[561] - Quote
Tri Stone wrote:Gal/Cal receive huge buff while the Amarr get double nerfed..... one nerf would have been enough but now it will have four times the kick after each consecutive shot? am I supposed to tap the trigger every two seconds to avoid the unnecessary kick?The amarr assault doesn't even have a bonus to it's own sidearm. So to maximize the suits effectiveness I have to throw on a laser light weapon on, while every other class can have either their racial sidearms/light weapons affected by their bonus...true makes sense.
I just want to know the logic behind nerfing the accuracy of the gun that was meant to be used accurately...
not only will I overheat fast but my shot's will be 4x less accurate... but hey I get a tiny improvement to my movement speed...when charging a shot...... a charge shot that will make me overheat after 4 shots..
Idk about you but I don't always land my charge shots, I definitely won't be using the charge shot ever... with only 4 shot's to hopefully kill my opponent with, if I miss the charge shot. It seems sort of useless to charge up now.
no other rifle renders you defenseless/immobilized other than the Scr/Lr... if this nerf goes through you might as well give us the ability to sprint when overheated cause at the moment I see Tac Ars, and Rail Rifles reigning supreme.
Totally agree with u, but the movement when charging is a nerf.
Now that You've Tasted my Mutton.. How do you Like it!?!
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zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
791
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Posted - 2015.09.27 03:42:00 -
[562] - Quote
Y-BLOCK wrote:Tri Stone wrote:Gal/Cal receive huge buff while the Amarr get double nerfed..... one nerf would have been enough but now it will have four times the kick after each consecutive shot? am I supposed to tap the trigger every two seconds to avoid the unnecessary kick?The amarr assault doesn't even have a bonus to it's own sidearm. So to maximize the suits effectiveness I have to throw on a laser light weapon on, while every other class can have either their racial sidearms/light weapons affected by their bonus...true makes sense.
I just want to know the logic behind nerfing the accuracy of the gun that was meant to be used accurately...
not only will I overheat fast but my shot's will be 4x less accurate... but hey I get a tiny improvement to my movement speed...when charging a shot...... a charge shot that will make me overheat after 4 shots..
Idk about you but I don't always land my charge shots, I definitely won't be using the charge shot ever... with only 4 shot's to hopefully kill my opponent with, if I miss the charge shot. It seems sort of useless to charge up now.
no other rifle renders you defenseless/immobilized other than the Scr/Lr... if this nerf goes through you might as well give us the ability to sprint when overheated cause at the moment I see Tac Ars, and Rail Rifles reigning supreme. Totally agree with u, but the movement when charging is a nerf.
Keep in mind all assault rifles but AR just got their range nerfed into the ground. Now SCR and RR will be the only long range rifles. RR on Cal Assault will be the sh*t but SCR will still be better in CQC, and will have much better range than any other rifle besides RR. TAR fails at range as much as it beasts at mid range in skilled hands, regardless of the new bonus. The SCR has a proper balance of strengths and drawbacks now. And if the recoil nerf is clearly too much Rat will tweak it, just like the ridiculous RR charge time when it first got nerfed.
Also keep in mind shields just became ridiculously good, so there will be more Caldari and Minmatar running around, and SCR will still be really good against shield tankers.
And if you've fired your SCR enough for it to almost overheat then either
a) you're engaging at range (as now only two rifles can) and should just take cover, reload, rep armor for a sec
or b) you're close enough to engage with your sidearm and you've melted their shields so finish them off with the SMG
or c) you're about to overheat and the enemy still had their shields up because you couldn't hit them at all, in which case you suck get good accept your fate |
CHET CHEWS
186
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Posted - 2015.09.27 05:00:00 -
[563] - Quote
I have a question regarding the ROF increase with the gal ass, will the ROF increase for the Tac Ar and the burst? Or just the regular AR?
"I wuv u senpai cause you so caguay"- {CHET CHEWS TO: CCP RATATI}
OFICIALLY RETIRED
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Ateroith
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
113
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Posted - 2015.09.27 05:41:00 -
[564] - Quote
Was Minmatar just ignored?
"...Rule #2 - Never start a fight. Rule #3 - Never lose one either." - Lee Child
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Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2015.09.27 05:54:00 -
[565] - Quote
CHET CHEWS wrote:I have a question regarding the ROF increase with the gal ass, will the ROF increase for the Tac Ar and the burst? Or just the regular AR?
I believe it was said that all would be increased, even the shotgun.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
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StoneSmasher Drugga
Corrosive Synergy
No Context
150
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Posted - 2015.09.27 06:40:00 -
[566] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:CHET CHEWS wrote:I have a question regarding the ROF increase with the gal ass, will the ROF increase for the Tac Ar and the burst? Or just the regular AR? I believe it was said that all would be increased, even the shotgun.
All AR not shotgun, CPM stated somewhere, but I don't have link.
There is no evil greater than hyperbole.
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Daddrobit
You Can Call Me Daddy
2
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Posted - 2015.09.27 06:54:00 -
[567] - Quote
StoneSmasher Drugga wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:CHET CHEWS wrote:I have a question regarding the ROF increase with the gal ass, will the ROF increase for the Tac Ar and the burst? Or just the regular AR? I believe it was said that all would be increased, even the shotgun. All AR not shotgun, CPM stated somewhere, but I don't have link.
Kevall Longstride wrote:
We've had assurances from Rattati that the bonus will apply to AR's only. We were obviously concerned about the Bons becoming a machine shotgun gun.
Also bare in mind that AR's will now be eating up ammo like candy so the clips will drain much faster.
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:
The bonus only applies to ARs, or at least that's the intended result. We will have to see if any bugs pop up.
There ya go.
O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
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Flint Beastgood III
Standby Retaliation
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 11:12:00 -
[568] - Quote
TheD1CK wrote:My only argument would be the Assault bonues.. Gallente with high RoF will be pretty nasty.. And.. again.. The Caldari reload is great!!, fast reloads to match fast recharge delays.. Kick reduction is just sending an invite for Cal Assaults to dominate in close ranges.. I've seen this spoke about a lot, always hoped the day would never come.. Edit: Just read replies and the bonuses are in addition to current.. Well thats OP There should be some interesting spam on the battlefield soon
Hence all the "WTB Ghalag's RR and Kalante's AR" posts in the trade channels.
BPO Trade Stall
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Demandred Moores
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
133
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Posted - 2015.09.27 11:47:00 -
[569] - Quote
Press Attache wrote:Massive vehicle nerfs, no corresponding buff in lethality, and no creation of a distinct role for tankers.
Kind of meh.
Like the AV changes, forge should have been the best AV forever, but without a clear role for tanks(transport, scanning, or even as a functioning in PC/FW cru) it just means driving around outside large sockets.
Going to have to record what will surely be ridiculous deaths when infantry come up on masse and beat a tank to death. Jumping plc's were already ridiculous, this next patch should finally kill off vehicles for any competitive use.
Tankers don't have a role? Sitting straight on an objective watching a panel for point defense, pushing up and aggressing a point providing suppressive fire, anti air, transportation, and scans. All those are very important roles for havs. Seriously, no role? |
Demandred Moores
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
133
|
Posted - 2015.09.27 11:58:00 -
[570] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Genral69 death wrote:I am worried about gunlogis with the Av changes happing, the only advantage the gunlogi has when close to infantry was that small arms would not break its shield regen and would require some actual Av weapons also people going round punching vehicles is completely a stupid idea. I get that you could do actual damage to one but how do you destroy a metal vehicle with your fists :/ and that it would most likely break your hands Bear in mind that Gunnies are getting a recharge and depleted delay buff,as well as recharge rate buff. With a single PRO Shield Regulator you get a 2.25s recharge delay, which is the same as a max operation AFG's charge time. It's not all bad for Gunnies! No, but def not enough. Recharge is just a small part of the issue. Like, have you ever tried fitting a reg to a gunnie? What happens when you do so? And is it worth it over what you lose. This buff will have nearly no noticeable affect on their performance.
The recharge is one of the BIGGEST issues. Regs cost a bit but they can be fit. This will be noticeable, not a complete fox but give them time. And havs are VERY valuable on the field. I don't get the hate a forge couldn't kill anything before. Not my tanks anyways. Jumpy plc is no problem stay aware. Would have like to see shield boaters reworked to multiple small pulses and av time armour reps brought back with passives bring nerfed. To much for one hotfix though I would assume. |
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NextDark Knight
Hellstorm LLC
870
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Posted - 2015.09.27 12:17:00 -
[571] - Quote
For all the people that dislike the Commando Bonus change,
The only reason Min had the bonus for Swarms was due to a damage profile oversite when coding into the game.It should have been a Cal Commando Bonus from day one. It's just being fixed now.
If you guys are nice enough to the DEVs there is a possibility to see race specified damage type swarm launchers in the LP Store.
Republic Specialist Swarm Launcher with a Missile Profile for Explosive
Amar Specialist Swarm Launcher with a Missile Profile for EM Damage
Federation Specialist Swarm Launcher with a Missile Profile for Plasma Damage
Don't hold your breath for commando having the bonus but it's always possible and fits in with switchable damage types for missiles.
Caldari Suit Videos Love Caldari - Since 6/29/2012
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
751
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Posted - 2015.09.27 13:18:00 -
[572] - Quote
Demandred Moores wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Genral69 death wrote:I am worried about gunlogis with the Av changes happing, the only advantage the gunlogi has when close to infantry was that small arms would not break its shield regen and would require some actual Av weapons also people going round punching vehicles is completely a stupid idea. I get that you could do actual damage to one but how do you destroy a metal vehicle with your fists :/ and that it would most likely break your hands Bear in mind that Gunnies are getting a recharge and depleted delay buff,as well as recharge rate buff. With a single PRO Shield Regulator you get a 2.25s recharge delay, which is the same as a max operation AFG's charge time. It's not all bad for Gunnies! No, but def not enough. Recharge is just a small part of the issue. Like, have you ever tried fitting a reg to a gunnie? What happens when you do so? And is it worth it over what you lose. This buff will have nearly no noticeable affect on their performance. The recharge is one of the BIGGEST issues. Regs cost a bit but they can be fit. This will be noticeable, not a complete fix but give them time. And havs are VERY valuable on the field. I don't get the hate a forge couldn't kill anything before. Not my tanks anyways. Jumpy plc is no problem stay aware. Would have like to see shield boaters reworked to multiple small pulses and active armour reps brought back with passives being nerfed. Too much for one hotfix though I would assume.
I run double reg gunnis .... I can smell the fanmail already.
I feel sorry for all the drugar pilots that are going to have to learn to drive.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Mortishai Belmont
G.L.O.R.Y
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 14:26:00 -
[573] - Quote
I would probably complain a lot about some of these changes... Buuuuut, I have 12 pull proto suits and all the light weapons so, I'm not going to get screwed :D
Problem with changes like the cal commando being swarm proficient is that so many people spec'd into min commando's just for swarms.
Those people, are now screwed and have to go into a new suit or weapon.
But again, me and my 100+mil life time will be happy with what ever :DDD
The C.E.O. of G.L.O.R.Y,
(~..)~ Now on Youtube ~(..~)
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NextDark Knight
Hellstorm LLC
874
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Posted - 2015.09.27 15:03:00 -
[574] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:
Problem with changes like the cal commando being swarm proficient is that so many people spec'd into min commando's just for swarms.
Won't be the first or the last time this happens.. When the buff the Mass driver is getting on vehicles will make the breach good for applying tank damage so not all is lost.
Caldari Suit Videos Love Caldari - Since 6/29/2012
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Mortishai Belmont
G.L.O.R.Y
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 15:06:00 -
[575] - Quote
NextDark Knight wrote:Mortishai Belmont wrote:
Problem with changes like the cal commando being swarm proficient is that so many people spec'd into min commando's just for swarms.
Won't be the first or the last time this happens.. When the buff the Mass driver is getting on vehicles will make the breach good for applying tank damage so not all is lost.
I'm not gonna lie, super happy about the breach mass driver being useful. It upset me a little bit that it was kinda useless for the most part :c
The C.E.O. of G.L.O.R.Y,
(~..)~ Now on Youtube ~(..~)
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 16:20:00 -
[576] - Quote
Demandred Moores wrote:
The recharge is one of the BIGGEST issues. Regs cost a bit but they can be fit. This will be noticeable, not a complete fix but give them time. And havs are VERY valuable on the field. I don't get the hate a forge couldn't kill anything before. Not my tanks anyways. Jumpy plc is no problem stay aware. Would have like to see shield boaters reworked to multiple small pulses and active armour reps brought back with passives being nerfed. Too much for one hotfix though I would assume.
I'll have to disagree there. Recharge is NOT the biggest issue, the biggest issue are the massive CPU/PG differences between armor and shields mods as well as the utility over defense.
The new recharge rates are helpful but don't point to the root of the problem. At full health using extenders with hardeners, assuming lets say a value of 4400 on health, it will still take 20 - 24 seconds to fully recover shield damage. Where a maddie will be recovering at a constant rate as you struggle to break fire.
In a straight fight, a maddie will still have the clear cut advantage. I mean just assume a maddie fit dual hards, plate, rep, heatsink, damage mod, nitro. That's fit for FULL tank AND damage augmentation / speed.
Conversely, look at your shield fit. If you want to fit for a full defense, 2 hards, 2 extenders at the very least are required. That leaves just one slot in your highs for an offense related utility mod. But then you need to fit a PG/CPU mod to your lows to make it happen because hardeners are quite intensive on PG/CPU (not to mention extenders).
To even say that right now recharge is the biggest issue right now just seems so ridiculous to me when you could just compare fits and see the obvious. Armor has no need to sacrifice any slots, yet a gunnie MUST to even compare to a poorly fit maddie.
And as far as HAV's usefulness on the field, nope. Yes, I'll admit there are some situations where they could shine. 5 point bridge map for one. But maps like 2 in 2 out cargo, or 3 in 2 out research, tanks are just useless. Home point defense at best if you can even shoot the console, many sockets you can't.
They are good at shooting dropships down, but generally a FG fills this niche better, as they can sit in the middle of the map, elevated. Even swarms work better with their tracking many times, as leading a dropship isn't exactly the easiest thing to do.
Transport, that's what a dropships is for.
Sure in pubs it does seem like the HAV is this unstoppable murder machine winning the match. But then I go run infantry and play to the points mostly ignoring the tank on the field because unless its a blaster, it won't be doing much. Even if it's a blaster, mobility around points can be extremely limited so it's not much an issue ducking behind cover or moving around another area.
It's usually an issue of silly blue dots that think they need to kill this tank doing absolutely nothing for their team, leaving the points undefended in the process or running into the maws of the enemy.
And if all else fails, AV grenades. Oh wait, all explosives do full damage to tanks (more to armor), cores it is! Maybe throw in some mass driver rounds and drive that tank off and never once worry about breaking my infantry slaying capabilities with AV nades that can't damage infantry or swarms that can't shoot at infantry.
Be my guest though, I hope you enjoy those plasma cannon rounds to the fuel cell that basically strip all of your shields in a single round with both hardeners up! It should be quite interesting for those unprepared for the pain! |
Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 16:30:00 -
[577] - Quote
Devadander wrote:I run double reg gunnis .... I can smell the fanmail already. I feel sorry for all the drugar pilots that are going to have to learn to drive.
Really, I mean come on really. Is the only competition you ever get sica's and soma's. Do me a favor, jump into a PC and find yourself some real competition.
There is NO chance you would ever beat a dual hard, rep, plate maddie. Even getting him from behind it would still turn and just insta pop you.
Fanmail, haha. Sounds like you need to move up in the MU bracket and quit playing academy scrubs. I don't even care about gunnies, I'll let you hit my maddie at 300M as I rush in with a blaster. Eating every single round and then basically insta popping you the moment you get in range.
Then I could casually roll off with full health! And don't give me this crap about sneaking around or whatever. I'll be playing at the same level, the only encounter you get is face to face. |
Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 16:54:00 -
[578] - Quote
When ?
Bring your daughter... TO THE SLAUGHTER !
- Sequal Rise
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Foehammerr
Dead Man's Game
213
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Posted - 2015.09.27 18:39:00 -
[579] - Quote
Since I know Ratt Is reading this thread, instead of making a new thread for this i'll add on to the OP
CCP Rattati wrote:
Shield Tanking
We are taking a major step towards a balance between Armor and Shield tanking with this new Hotfix, radically strengthening the shield recharge rates, recharge delays and damage thresholds of Caldari and Minmatar Dropsuits. We also reduced the CPU cost of Shield Regulators by almost 20%t to top it off.
While this is a good start, I don't think its enough to keep people from omnitanking, especially on Caldari assaults to get absurd levels of EHP on a medium frame. Being slow from armor isn't enough. To penalize people who omnitank, they need to be "big" and slow. This would work by increasing the dropsuit scan profile when using shield extenders making them easier to spot on scans. Since this penalty on top of the recharge delay might be crippling to those who shield tank, the delay needs to be removed. The rate the profile increase needs to match the Caldari scout so if a person were to fully shield tank, the bonus to profile dampening would completely negate the penalty to shield extenders at level 5.
Since there would no longer be a delay increase to adding shield extenders, those who use the Caldari assault would perhaps only need one to two regulators, freeing up the extra slots for profile dampeners and kinetic catalyzers
CCP Rattati wrote:
HAV/AV Balance
Secondly, changing the Swarm Launcher profile to be a new Explosive GÇô Missile, and granting the damage bonus to the Caldari Commando, and leaving Minmatar Commandos with Explosive GÇô Explosives (both have a +20% Armor/-20% Shield damage profile.
Rather than simply switching the suit bonuses from one commando to another, I think the commando should remain a rail/sniper platform and add missile bonuses to the Caldari medium frame, specifically to lock on speed and missile flight speed, adding a different but equally useful skill that makes the medium frame attractive (though they're all still technically viable options as is). I believe all light, medium,and heavy frames should get bonuses that make them more attractive than the specialist frames in some situations, instead of being an SP wall to the "tech 2" frames.
As an extension to this topic, Assault suits should only get cap fitting bonuses to their own racial weapons (or specific types in the case of the Caldari and Minmatar). for the C/G series Assaults It should be all hybrid weapons, for Minmatar, Kinetic (combat Rifles and SMGs), and for the Amarr, Laser. For the weapons not affected by these bonuses, this is where the medium frames get their moment to shine. The detailed Explanation is here.
Assault suits should also get a fitting bonus to Kinetic Catalyzers to incentivize mobility over large buffer tanking.
Part 1/2
De Opresso Liber
Beta Vet since 2/5/2013
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Foehammerr
Dead Man's Game
213
|
Posted - 2015.09.27 18:39:00 -
[580] - Quote
2/2
CCP Rattati wrote:
Rifles
The Gallente Assault Rifle family is fairly underpowered to the rest of them, not statistically per se, but due to other Assault Dropsuits having better Skill bonuses. ThatGÇÖs why we are introducing a very strong bonus into the form of a ROF bonus for Gallente Assault Dropsuits. Players have been clamoring for a better Caldari bonus as well, and that is being added as a Kick/Recoil reduction for Rail Rifles.
While I think both of these bonuses are much needed additions, I would like to make a recommendation to specify the Caldari bonus to Aim Down Sights kick specifically. If the kick gets reduced in general, it would make the Rail Rifle too effective in too many situations, especially close quarters which is a bit of a problem already. For a weapon with the highest range (both optimal and maximum effective), precision, and alpha damage, the only logical counterbalance is for it to perform poorly up close. limiting the bonus to ADS incentivizes use at range, rather than being able to use it at all ranges with negligible penalties.
To balance the rail rifle's poor performance in CQB (should it be implemented this way), the Caldari Assault should also get a fitting bonus to Assault Rifles, giving it a close quarters option while only retaining bonuses for the rail rifle. I also believe the inverse should be the case for the Gallente Assault.
CCP Rattati wrote:
Other Weapons
Breach Shotguns get a Clip and Ammo Buff, MagSec gets a healthy damage buff and a charge time reduction. Small Blaster given a robust Splash radius buff to help with Anti Infantry work, especially from the skies, but also from HAVs/LAVs.
Locus Grenade damage progression made Standard and Advanced grenades fairly useless, so we are going to have the same damage for all tiears, with increasing radius per tier. We are also fixing the Packed Locus and buffing the Fused Grenades considerably.
Modules
We wanted to improve the Biotics family so are reducing the PG cost of the KinCats, buffing the Cardiac Regulator. We normalized the Myofib damage bonus but increased base Melee damage on all dropsuits to make up for it.
ThatGÇÖs it for now, go ahead and comment on these changes, that look like they will stir up the meta quite a lot.
<3
One thing I would like to request is the return of zoom for Basic and Breach Forge Guns. as they currently stand, the Basic and Breach have been second fiddle to the assault, as there is nothing substantial making them more attractive than the AFG. With the Breach, you almost feel penalized for using it with the fact that you cant move while charging it. If the Basic received a mid range zoom and the Breach long range zoom, I think people will find them more useful. Also, since the assault forge gun is now the only one with splash damage, it will be harder to "forge snipe" like before. It could potentially give people an anti infantry option with it, but it will be as harder then using plasma cannons since there is no splash damage.
De Opresso Liber
Beta Vet since 2/5/2013
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 19:38:00 -
[581] - Quote
Foehammerr wrote:To balance the rail rifle's poor performance in CQB (should it be implemented this way), the Caldari Assault should also get a fitting bonus to Assault Rifles, giving it a close quarters option while only retaining bonuses for the rail rifle. I also believe the inverse should be the case for the Gallente Assault..
No.
Your close quarters option is the soon-to-be-buffed MagSec: it's going to be faster charging, higher damage and benefits from the original CalAss bonus (reload speed) and the base Assault fitting bonus.
So no, CalAss should not get another bonus because you don't understand how good you have it already. Especially considering the MagSec is basically as good as the AR anyway.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Foehammerr
Dead Man's Game
215
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Posted - 2015.09.27 20:33:00 -
[582] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Foehammerr wrote:To balance the rail rifle's poor performance in CQB (should it be implemented this way), the Caldari Assault should also get a fitting bonus to Assault Rifles, giving it a close quarters option while only retaining bonuses for the rail rifle. I also believe the inverse should be the case for the Gallente Assault.. No. Your close quarters option is the soon-to-be-buffed MagSec: it's going to be faster charging, higher damage and benefits from the original CalAss bonus (reload speed) and the base Assault fitting bonus. So no, CalAss should not get another bonus because you don't understand how good you have it already. Especially considering the MagSec is basically as good as the AR anyway.
While your statement is accurate, you misunderstand my intentions and are also going on the assumption that people are only going to use the MagSec, when the Bolt Pistol and the Ion Pistol exist as well. The point of my recommendation is both the Gallente and Caldari Assault are Hybrid Weapon platforms, and as such should receive fitting bonuses to all hybrid weapons, and that's it. It is no different than it already is, but in this circumstance its going on the premise that Ratatti did what needed to be done and limited the assault fitting bonus to racial weapons, which you'd see if you actually read the whole post.
De Opresso Liber
Beta Vet since 2/5/2013
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 20:57:00 -
[583] - Quote
Foehammerr wrote:While your statement is accurate, you misunderstand my intentions and are also going on the assumption that people are only going to use the MagSec, when the Bolt Pistol and the Ion Pistol exist as well. The point of my recommendation is both the Gallente and Caldari Assault are Hybrid Weapon platforms, and as such should receive fitting bonuses to all hybrid weapons, and that's it. It is no different than it already is, but in this circumstance its going on the premise that Ratatti did what needed to be done and limited the assault fitting bonus to racial weapons, which you'd see if you actually read the whole post.
Yes and no. DUST and EVE lore is somewhat uncertain, sine we've had conflicting elements since Dust began. For example the Incubus has bonuses to both, but neither Assaults have bonuses for both.
And the Bolt Pistol is an effective sidearm, even at close quarters. But your suggestion was that CalAss should get a bonus to help with CQC: MagSecs are already effective at CQC and will be more so after the Hotfix, so your notion of having a CqC bonus is unwarranted, especially considering that Dust lore does not inherently support the idea of Gal/Cal fully using both Hybrid types.
Finally, a lore reason isn't necessarily a good enough reason to break balance.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Foehammerr
Dead Man's Game
216
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Posted - 2015.09.27 21:11:00 -
[584] - Quote
Kallas HallytyrYes and no. DUST and EVE lore is somewhat uncertain, sine we've had conflicting elements since Dust began. For example the Incubus has bonuses to both, but neither Assaults have bonuses for both.
And the Bolt Pistol is an effective sidearm, even at close quarters. But your suggestion was that CalAss should get a bonus to help with CQC: MagSecs are already effective at CQC and will be more so after the Hotfix, so your notion of having a CqC bonus is unwarranted, especially considering that Dust lore does not inherently support the idea of Gal/Cal fully using both Hybrid types.
Finally, a lore reason isn't necessarily a good enough reason to break balance.
TL;DR: the MagSec is an effective CQC option, making the introduction of an AR CalAss bonus entirely unnecessary - not because the MagSec is the [i wrote:only [/i]sidearm a CalAss should use, but because it is an option that fills a hole that you feel is there.
I actually never mentioned lore even once. There is nothing stopping the potential fittings with ARs on Caldari Assaults from being used right now.
the reason I want racial fitting bonuses only is to fix game breaking fits like Minmatar Assaults with shotguns and Amarr assaults with rail rifles and every suit under the sun using bolt pistols and flaylock pistols. if you can use any weapon on any suit with similar results as the suits they're designed to be used on, it defeats the point of specialization.
De Opresso Liber
Beta Vet since 2/5/2013
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Dewie Cheecham
Enlightened Infantries
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
817
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Posted - 2015.09.27 22:07:00 -
[585] - Quote
Bolt pistols? What about them? Are they getting their broken hit detection fixed soon?
Right now it's not far from being shooting-over-your-shoulder-while-farting-in-the-general-direction-to-get-a-sure-kill level hit detection. |
XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
2
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Posted - 2015.09.27 22:08:00 -
[586] - Quote
Dewie Cheecham wrote:Bolt pistols? What about them? Are they getting their broken hit detection fixed soon?
Right now it's not far from being shooting-over-your-shoulder-while-farting-in-the-general-direction-to-get-a-sure-kill level hit detection.
It's getting a rof nerf.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
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Dewie Cheecham
Enlightened Infantries
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
819
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Posted - 2015.09.27 22:13:00 -
[587] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Dewie Cheecham wrote:Bolt pistols? What about them? Are they getting their broken hit detection fixed soon?
Right now it's not far from being shooting-over-your-shoulder-while-farting-in-the-general-direction-to-get-a-sure-kill level hit detection. It's getting a rof nerf.
It's a start, but sadly doesn't fix the hit detection. |
Dewie Cheecham
Enlightened Infantries
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
819
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Posted - 2015.09.27 22:14:00 -
[588] - Quote
Swarms getting nerfed against ADS'es?
ADS'es are already OP as it is. If anything the swarms should get a +25m range buff instead of a nerf. |
XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
2
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Posted - 2015.09.27 22:15:00 -
[589] - Quote
Dewie Cheecham wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Dewie Cheecham wrote:Bolt pistols? What about them? Are they getting their broken hit detection fixed soon?
Right now it's not far from being shooting-over-your-shoulder-while-farting-in-the-general-direction-to-get-a-sure-kill level hit detection. It's getting a rof nerf. It's a start, but sadly doesn't fix the hit detection.
It's not bit detection, it's kick and dispersion.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
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XxBlazikenxX
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
2
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Posted - 2015.09.27 22:16:00 -
[590] - Quote
Dewie Cheecham wrote:Swarms getting nerfed against ADS'es?
ADS'es are already OP as it is. If anything the swarms should get a +25m range buff instead of a nerf.
ADS's are a flying coffin. A very expensive flying coffin.
Winner of the EU Squad Cup & the closed beta Tester's Tournament.
Go Go Power Rangers!
R.I.P MAG.
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Genral69 death
RAT PATROL INC.
771
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Posted - 2015.09.27 22:25:00 -
[591] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Dewie Cheecham wrote:Swarms getting nerfed against ADS'es?
ADS'es are already OP as it is. If anything the swarms should get a +25m range buff instead of a nerf. ADS's are a flying coffin. A very expensive flying coffin.
I'm gona assume he doesn't fly
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
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Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.09.27 22:48:00 -
[592] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Dewie Cheecham wrote:Bolt pistols? What about them? Are they getting their broken hit detection fixed soon?
Right now it's not far from being shooting-over-your-shoulder-while-farting-in-the-general-direction-to-get-a-sure-kill level hit detection. It's getting a rof nerf.
Which make no sense.. But.. Well.. It's Dust I suppose.
Bring your daughter... TO THE SLAUGHTER !
- Sequal Rise
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Demandred Moores
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
136
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Posted - 2015.09.27 23:11:00 -
[593] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Demandred Moores wrote:
The recharge is one of the BIGGEST issues. Regs cost a bit but they can be fit. This will be noticeable, not a complete fix but give them time. And havs are VERY valuable on the field. I don't get the hate a forge couldn't kill anything before. Not my tanks anyways. Jumpy plc is no problem stay aware. Would have like to see shield boaters reworked to multiple small pulses and active armour reps brought back with passives being nerfed. Too much for one hotfix though I would assume.
I'll have to disagree there. Recharge is NOT the biggest issue, the biggest issue are the massive CPU/PG differences between armor and shields mods as well as the utility over defense. The new recharge rates are helpful but don't point to the root of the problem. At full health using extenders with hardeners, assuming lets say a value of 4400 on health, it will still take 20 - 24 seconds to fully recover shield damage. Where a maddie will be recovering at a constant rate as you struggle to break fire. In a straight fight, a maddie will still have the clear cut advantage. I mean just assume a maddie fit dual hards, plate, rep, heatsink, damage mod, nitro. That's fit for FULL tank AND damage augmentation / speed. Conversely, look at your shield fit. If you want to fit for a full defense, 2 hards, 2 extenders at the very least are required. That leaves just one slot in your highs for an offense related utility mod. But then you need to fit a PG/CPU mod to your lows to make it happen because hardeners are quite intensive on PG/CPU (not to mention extenders). To even say that right now recharge is the biggest issue right now just seems so ridiculous to me when you could just compare fits and see the obvious. Armor has no need to sacrifice any slots, yet a gunnie MUST to even compare to a poorly fit maddie. And as far as HAV's usefulness on the field, nope. Yes, I'll admit there are some situations where they could shine. 5 point bridge map for one. But maps like 2 in 2 out cargo, or 3 in 2 out research, tanks are just useless. Home point defense at best if you can even shoot the console, many sockets you can't. They are good at shooting dropships down, but generally a FG fills this niche better, as they can sit in the middle of the map, elevated. Even swarms work better with their tracking many times, as leading a dropship isn't exactly the easiest thing to do. Transport, that's what a dropships is for. Sure in pubs it does seem like the HAV is this unstoppable murder machine winning the match. But then I go run infantry and play to the points mostly ignoring the tank on the field because unless its a blaster, it won't be doing much. Even if it's a blaster, mobility around points can be extremely limited so it's not much an issue ducking behind cover or moving around another area. It's usually an issue of silly blue dots that think they need to kill this tank doing absolutely nothing for their team, leaving the points undefended in the process or running into the maws of the enemy. And if all else fails, AV grenades. Oh wait, all explosives do full damage to tanks (more to armor), cores it is! Maybe throw in some mass driver rounds and drive that tank off and never once worry about breaking my infantry slaying capabilities with AV nades that can't damage infantry or swarms that can't shoot at infantry. Be my guest though, I hope you enjoy those plasma cannon rounds to the fuel cell that basically strip all of your shields in a single round with both hardeners up! It should be quite interesting for those unprepared for the pain!
You are correct, maddy can have better survivability and sacrifice none of it to add dps. That's a common problem with shield vs armour in general though.
Dat missile sica pretty gud doh |
Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.28 02:02:00 -
[594] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:which is why swarms are also included in the weak spot increase for HAVs
This is hilarious and a terrible point. :/ You can't aim swarms, so "weak spots" are irrelevant for them.
You're buffing forges (which are already the only viable anti-dropship weapon, and the best at killing tanks) via this weak spot, and also thrice-over nerfing the swarms, which were already basically useless.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
6
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Posted - 2015.09.28 02:14:00 -
[595] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Bremen van Equis wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote: Should the range nerf go through, I do not expect Swarms will see much use in the weeks and months following Foxfour. High risk and negligible reward will be to blame. High risk and negligible reward... area denial of a force multiplier is a negligible reward? Are you talking about WP for kills, or usefulness to the team? Maybe I'm wrong but aren't you guys wracking up +75's every time you get more than one volley off? High risk and negligible reward is what current ADS is all about, except maybe in the hands of the most adept pilots. Swarms on a basic Min commando (now Caldari after hotfix) seem to be low risk for lots of points. Are you trying to solo an ADS with swarms, or deny them access to clear a bunch of rooftop spawn points? Hi there. You must've confused me with Soraya; please re-read the very first line of my feedback on the topic: I agree that swarms are too good against dropships. Unfortunately for Swarmers, there's more at play with Swarms than their oppression of dropships. Take Swarms vs HAVs, for example. Why even bother? To answer your question, Swarmers are not being paid +75WP per volley. Swarming is not at all a WP-intensive activity. It is, however, a very high-risk activity. Swarmers tend to die alot. They just do. If you don't care to take my word for it, try it sometime for yourself. Better yet, ask Rattati for Swarm Launcher kill/spawn efficiency numbers. which is why swarms are also included in the weak spot increase for HAVs
I assume you've tested swarms against weak points in a test environment. Approximately how often are you able to strike the weak point with swarms?
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
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Posted - 2015.09.28 03:03:00 -
[596] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:which is why swarms are also included in the weak spot increase for HAVs This is hilarious and a terrible point. :/ You can't aim swarms, so "weak spots" are irrelevant for them. You're buffing forges (which are already the only viable anti-dropship weapon, and the best at killing tanks) via this weak spot, and also thrice-over nerfing the swarms, which were already basically useless.
Swarms aren't useless. They're useless against HAVs, but they're good at wrecking LAVs and decent at chasing away dropships. Possibly too good at the latter. |
Pokey Dravon
OSG Planetary Operations
6
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Posted - 2015.09.28 03:14:00 -
[597] - Quote
In regards to fisting a tank in the butt until it dies...
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CP9CJK5VAAAgTfh.jpg:large
"That little sh*t Pokey..." --CCP Rattati
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Demandred Moores
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
137
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Posted - 2015.09.28 04:35:00 -
[598] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:which is why swarms are also included in the weak spot increase for HAVs This is hilarious and a terrible point. :/ You can't aim swarms, so "weak spots" are irrelevant for them. You're buffing forges (which are already the only viable anti-dropship weapon, and the best at killing tanks) via this weak spot, and also thrice-over nerfing the swarms, which were already basically useless. forges are terrible anti air swarms are way better all I do is ads what are you talking about?
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Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
788
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Posted - 2015.09.28 10:57:00 -
[599] - Quote
Demandred Moores wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:which is why swarms are also included in the weak spot increase for HAVs This is hilarious and a terrible point. :/ You can't aim swarms, so "weak spots" are irrelevant for them. You're buffing forges (which are already the only viable anti-dropship weapon, and the best at killing tanks) via this weak spot, and also thrice-over nerfing the swarms, which were already basically useless. forges are terrible anti air swarms are way better all I do is ads what are you talking about?
I'd disagree that Forge Guns are terrible anti-air weapons; their range, power and projectile speed make them pretty good at it, they just need to be aimed carefully and the shots timed to hit fast moving DS and ADS. One shot is usually enough to deter an ADS, two shots if they pop a Shield Booster. Even with a Hardener active, ADS don't like sticking around with a good Forger on overwatch.
Purifier. First Class.
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Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
954
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Posted - 2015.09.28 11:20:00 -
[600] - Quote
Pokey Dravon wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:Bremen van Equis wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote: Should the range nerf go through, I do not expect Swarms will see much use in the weeks and months following Foxfour. High risk and negligible reward will be to blame. High risk and negligible reward... area denial of a force multiplier is a negligible reward? Are you talking about WP for kills, or usefulness to the team? Maybe I'm wrong but aren't you guys wracking up +75's every time you get more than one volley off? High risk and negligible reward is what current ADS is all about, except maybe in the hands of the most adept pilots. Swarms on a basic Min commando (now Caldari after hotfix) seem to be low risk for lots of points. Are you trying to solo an ADS with swarms, or deny them access to clear a bunch of rooftop spawn points? Hi there. You must've confused me with Soraya; please re-read the very first line of my feedback on the topic: I agree that swarms are too good against dropships. Unfortunately for Swarmers, there's more at play with Swarms than their oppression of dropships. Take Swarms vs HAVs, for example. Why even bother? To answer your question, Swarmers are not being paid +75WP per volley. Swarming is not at all a WP-intensive activity. It is, however, a very high-risk activity. Swarmers tend to die alot. They just do. If you don't care to take my word for it, try it sometime for yourself. Better yet, ask Rattati for Swarm Launcher kill/spawn efficiency numbers. which is why swarms are also included in the weak spot increase for HAVs I assume you've tested swarms against weak points in a test environment. Approximately how often are you able to strike the weak point with swarms?
You can barely hit the weak point unless you are behind the HAV and standing about 10m away. The nerf to swarms is baseless, if you wanted them to be less effective you should lower the damage, not make it so a dropship can now only be effectively destroyed with a forge. Losing an extra 25m is going to be a pain.
Wanna play eve?
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Paulus Phen502
Red and Silver Hand
Amarr Empire
67
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Posted - 2015.09.28 11:32:00 -
[601] - Quote
Gonna have too make a new officer Breach Shotgun to further unbalance the game and favor the "rich get richer" officer hoarders. Where's the racial HMGs or full trading? And since Calmanditos can stack Damage Mods pretty well you might wanna nerf the range even more or some Carebear ads cowards may not leave the redline in PCs. Of course I can think of one or two who didn't leave the line anytime there was a real fight anyway.
"There's no stoppin' what can't be stopped, no killin' what can't be killed," King Willie Predator II.
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
753
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Posted - 2015.09.28 11:53:00 -
[602] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Devadander wrote:I run double reg gunnis .... I can smell the fanmail already. I feel sorry for all the drugar pilots that are going to have to learn to drive. Really, I mean come on really. Is the only competition you ever get sica's and soma's. Do me a favor, jump into a PC and find yourself some real competition. There is NO chance you would ever beat a dual hard, rep, plate maddie. Even getting him from behind it would still turn and just insta pop you. Fanmail, haha. Sounds like you need to move up in the MU bracket and quit playing academy scrubs. I don't even care about gunnies, I'll let you hit my maddie at 300M as I rush in with a blaster. Eating every single round and then basically insta popping you the moment you get in range. Then I could casually roll off with full health! And don't give me this crap about sneaking around or whatever. I'll be playing at the same level, the only encounter you get is face to face.
Oh no, right in the feels....
Seriously? I run a gunni because they are more fun to drive than a maddy. We all know they can't compete ATM so goml with your "I'm so pro" crap. Currently, if I feel like tanking, I call a gunni. I zip around and have fun trying to stay alive mostly.
Yes, its easily popped.
However, if I actually tank a match and get popped in the gunni, out comes the windrugar... I'm nearing 800m in isk alone so losing 2m once in a while hurts me not. If I'm having a good time, your opinions can get rekt.
Oh, and BTW sweetheart.. After foxfour, a dual reg gunni will tank an ion blaster with damage mods running. Math.
Add a hardener, and I'm gonna need a bigger bucket.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
7
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 12:04:00 -
[603] - Quote
Seems more suited for True Adamance. That long distant stare just screams disdain.
"Remember to Ratatat that ass" ~ The Internet
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TheD1CK
Dead Man's Game
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 12:53:00 -
[604] - Quote
**GAME-BREAKING NEWS**
In Planetary Conquest last night.. the return of 2 DEVS, 1 cup, players involved are currently in recovery
Confirming, those players were CCP'd on again last night. More game-breakng news at 10.
SOONtm
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 15:26:00 -
[605] - Quote
Devadander wrote:
Oh no, right in the feels....
Seriously? I run a gunni because they are more fun to drive than a maddy. We all know they can't compete ATM so goml with your "I'm so pro" crap. Currently, if I feel like tanking, I call a gunni. I zip around and have fun trying to stay alive mostly.
Yes, its easily popped.
However, if I actually tank a match and get popped in the gunni, out comes the windrugar... I'm nearing 800m in isk alone so losing 2m once in a while hurts me not. If I'm having a good time, your opinions can get rekt.
Oh, and BTW sweetheart.. After foxfour, a dual reg gunni will tank an ion blaster with damage mods running. Math.
Add a hardener, and I'm gonna need a bigger bucket.
Terribly sorry, I'll admit I was being over critical. I started with a gunnlogi over 2 years ago tanking, it's still hands down my favorite. Thing is, I want to see them become competitive again. It doesn't help though when people downplay their very serious faults.
But I'm going to have to burst your bubble here. A duel reg gunnie doesn't stand a chance now before first overheat of the blaster. What makes you think 94 extra shield regen, and a one second improvement to shield delay non depleted will change that?
You are probably better off with one reg, as I assume stacking penalties apply to the regs. So now yr down to a 2 second non depleted. So lets just assume a 10 second span. (assuming duel regs)
Gunnie
Non depleted recharge - 1760
Depleted recharge - 1540
Maddie (single rep)
Total repped - 1670
So if I ignore the fact that armor reps are constant, whoo gunnie wins! But armor reps constantly, so lets just look at that. So lets assume the maddie has a pro blaster with just base damage no modifiers. In this 10 seconds you get hit once 5 seconds in.
Gunnie
1 sec - waiting on recharge
2 sec - waiting on recharge
3 sec - 220
4 sec -220
5 sec - Damaged, recharge aborted
6 sec - waiting on recharge
7 sec - waiting on recharge
8 sec - 220
9 sec -220
10 sec -220
So you get a total of 1100 reps minus the 195 from the single blaster shot. So total repped, 905. Back to our comparison:
Gunnie - 905
Maddie - 1670
So I'm putting my money on the fact that this shield recharge change won't have any considerable impact on a gunnies life. But I wanna go a step further and check out a duel reg or maybe just a single reg fit (don't use 2 regs, I don't think you will get anything out of the second reg)
Well, proto fits is painfully out of date. But it does seem a fit like this:
Duel hards (adv)
Duel hvy extenders ( 1 pro, 1 adv)
Basic shield booster (pro)
Single reg
Particle cannon
Is possible. This is how I fit mine for testing purposes a while back. I've tried it now when I had the advantage, and there was no way to beat those reps. Without a heatsink, you just won't win that fight. Even assuming you can break engagement for 10 seconds, the maddie will have nearly repped the same amount as yourself.
So in reality, no, this change won't have any sizable impact on a gunnies performance tank to tank. They will however be good against AV, same as before. As most forms of AV, minus the plasma cannon, do less damage to shields. But with your lower HP totals, increased sweet spot damage, and now more forms of damage (ie all explosives) to watch out for, I'm afraid it will be worse for the gunnie, not better.
The best you could hope for in a gunnie is that with the extra forms of AV will keep the maddies at bay. While the extra forms of AV will affect a gunnie to a lesser extent, in the end it will still have a further negative impact on their performance. |
Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
790
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 16:17:00 -
[606] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:
So in reality, no, this change won't have any sizable impact on a gunnies performance tank to tank. They will however be good against AV, same as before. As most forms of AV, minus the plasma cannon, do less damage to shields. But with your lower HP totals, increased sweet spot damage, and now more forms of damage (ie all explosives) to watch out for, I'm afraid it will be worse for the gunnie, not better.
The best you could hope for in a gunnie is that with the extra forms of AV will keep the maddies at bay. While the extra forms of AV will affect a gunnie to a lesser extent, in the end it will still have a further negative impact on their performance.
What's the damage threshold for regen on gunnies?
Purifier. First Class.
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 16:54:00 -
[607] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:
So in reality, no, this change won't have any sizable impact on a gunnies performance tank to tank. They will however be good against AV, same as before. As most forms of AV, minus the plasma cannon, do less damage to shields. But with your lower HP totals, increased sweet spot damage, and now more forms of damage (ie all explosives) to watch out for, I'm afraid it will be worse for the gunnie, not better.
The best you could hope for in a gunnie is that with the extra forms of AV will keep the maddies at bay. While the extra forms of AV will affect a gunnie to a lesser extent, in the end it will still have a further negative impact on their performance.
What's the damage threshold for regen on gunnies?
Not positive, but it's low enough that a pro blaster will still stop regen with 2 hards up. Meaning a freedom mass driver should be sufficient to stop regen as it does more damage per shot over the blaster. I suspect as well a flaylock pistol will have enough power to stop shield regen as well.
But it would be nice to know the exact threshold number. |
GENERAL FCF
Sentinels of New Eden
152
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 16:57:00 -
[608] - Quote
Interesting proposal. I just spec'ed into proto Gallante Commando and was bummed to hear that the already awesome Assault is getting another buff. The Gallente Commando is ok and gets owned really quick no matter what suit comes it's way. The ROF buff bonus should be on the Commando as well. And since shield tanking is getting a very big boost this update when is the Gallante Sentinel going to have a base rep rate of 10/sec? Compare it to shield tanking and they have many more modules to augment their shield reps not mention a base shield regen rate of 30! Gallante has a laughable 4! That's less than 1/3 the shield... I thought Gallante were supposed to be rep kings? Not just another suit option with little to no incentive. Please fix this too! |
Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
790
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 17:19:00 -
[609] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:
So in reality, no, this change won't have any sizable impact on a gunnies performance tank to tank. They will however be good against AV, same as before. As most forms of AV, minus the plasma cannon, do less damage to shields. But with your lower HP totals, increased sweet spot damage, and now more forms of damage (ie all explosives) to watch out for, I'm afraid it will be worse for the gunnie, not better.
The best you could hope for in a gunnie is that with the extra forms of AV will keep the maddies at bay. While the extra forms of AV will affect a gunnie to a lesser extent, in the end it will still have a further negative impact on their performance.
What's the damage threshold for regen on gunnies? Not positive, but it's low enough that a pro blaster will still stop regen with 2 hards up. Meaning a freedom mass driver should be sufficient to stop regen as it does more damage per shot over the blaster. I suspect as well a flaylock pistol will have enough power to stop shield regen as well. But it would be nice to know the exact threshold number.
With explosives being -20 vs Shields, I'm not sure a MD will stop the regen unless it's a BMD.
Purifier. First Class.
|
Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
790
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 17:24:00 -
[610] - Quote
GENERAL FCF wrote:Interesting proposal. I just spec'ed into proto Gallante Commando and was bummed to hear that the already awesome Assault is getting another buff. The Gallente Commando is ok and gets owned really quick no matter what suit comes it's way. The ROF buff bonus should be on the Commando as well. And since shield tanking is getting a very big boost this update when is the Gallante Sentinel going to have a base rep rate of 10/sec? Compare it to shield tanking and they have many more modules to augment their shield reps not mention a base shield regen rate of 30! Gallante has a laughable 4! That's less than 1/3 the shield... I thought Gallante were supposed to be rep kings? Not just another suit option with little to no incentive. Please fix this too!
Maybe boost it up to 6/s to start and see how that goes. If it's not enough, push a little higher until we find a.comfortable point.
Purifier. First Class.
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CommanderBolt
Dead Man's Game
4
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 17:27:00 -
[611] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
When hell freezes over unless the rate of fire goes up on the forge.
Then we'll talk.
You are just DRIPPING with bias. But like I said a decrease to range would call for a buff in some other area. And it doesn't even have to be all forge guns. Things like the breach or the regular forge gun can keep that range. But the assault variant needs to come down in range. It's already the most powerful of all forge guns with no drawbacks in comparison to the other variants (unable to hold a charge isn't really a draw back from my experience). A reduction to range would make the other variants more appealing (breach get more range for long charge times?). Your standard variant and breach are long range area denial weapons, while the assault would be your short range area denial/destruction variant. Honestly though, in your quest to destroy vehicles, I feel you are neglecting your own bias for the forge gun. My balancing rule of thumb is to gain you must lose. So a weapon should not have long range and high dps. As range increases, dps should go down. This is evident in the breach, but it lacks what it really needs, more range. The assault is like the converse, same range but MORE dps. Why? great questions, the breach should have more range. later topic.
Yes! You GOD! Remove or reduce the speed and movement penalty to the Breach forge and give it more range and I will use that thing as my new slaughter device! =D
"Madness how we turned our common-ground into a battle-ground.." - Essa
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Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
791
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 17:30:00 -
[612] - Quote
CommanderBolt wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
When hell freezes over unless the rate of fire goes up on the forge.
Then we'll talk.
You are just DRIPPING with bias. But like I said a decrease to range would call for a buff in some other area. And it doesn't even have to be all forge guns. Things like the breach or the regular forge gun can keep that range. But the assault variant needs to come down in range. It's already the most powerful of all forge guns with no drawbacks in comparison to the other variants (unable to hold a charge isn't really a draw back from my experience). A reduction to range would make the other variants more appealing (breach get more range for long charge times?). Your standard variant and breach are long range area denial weapons, while the assault would be your short range area denial/destruction variant. Honestly though, in your quest to destroy vehicles, I feel you are neglecting your own bias for the forge gun. My balancing rule of thumb is to gain you must lose. So a weapon should not have long range and high dps. As range increases, dps should go down. This is evident in the breach, but it lacks what it really needs, more range. The assault is like the converse, same range but MORE dps. Why? great questions, the breach should have more range. later topic. Yes! You GOD! Remove or reduce the speed and movement penalty to the Breach forge and give it more range and I will use that thing as my new slaughter device! =D
If the Breach didn't have that immobilisation, it would see a lot more use.
Purifier. First Class.
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 17:38:00 -
[613] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:
So in reality, no, this change won't have any sizable impact on a gunnies performance tank to tank. They will however be good against AV, same as before. As most forms of AV, minus the plasma cannon, do less damage to shields. But with your lower HP totals, increased sweet spot damage, and now more forms of damage (ie all explosives) to watch out for, I'm afraid it will be worse for the gunnie, not better.
The best you could hope for in a gunnie is that with the extra forms of AV will keep the maddies at bay. While the extra forms of AV will affect a gunnie to a lesser extent, in the end it will still have a further negative impact on their performance.
What's the damage threshold for regen on gunnies? Not positive, but it's low enough that a pro blaster will still stop regen with 2 hards up. Meaning a freedom mass driver should be sufficient to stop regen as it does more damage per shot over the blaster. I suspect as well a flaylock pistol will have enough power to stop shield regen as well. But it would be nice to know the exact threshold number. With explosives being -20 vs Shields, I'm not sure a MD will stop the regen unless it's a BMD.
264 damage to shields, It most certainly should, considering the large blaster does 195 per shot and still breaks regen with hards up. |
Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
757
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 17:50:00 -
[614] - Quote
Currently, with dual regs and no hardener running, I can drive past a blaster installation and not worry about it. Turn on a hardener and I can stand off on it balancing my heat until I destroy it.
I can also tank anything but ions ATM, modded or not, with a hardener running. But even a full contact salvo from xt will not pop a dual hard maddy.
I like that we got love, but it won't dethrone madrugars.
My fit is:
Ext
Hard
Dual boost (basic lights to kick in emergency regen)
Dual reg (with these even a basic light boost will engage full regen cycle)
Heat sink for gunners
Effective vs anything but prodrugar ion. ( and other missile boats)
I expect to be able to tank some serious blaster fire after ff hits given my addiction to dual regs. Killing the hull its on is another thread entirely....
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
791
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 17:56:00 -
[615] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:Tebu Gan wrote:
So in reality, no, this change won't have any sizable impact on a gunnies performance tank to tank. They will however be good against AV, same as before. As most forms of AV, minus the plasma cannon, do less damage to shields. But with your lower HP totals, increased sweet spot damage, and now more forms of damage (ie all explosives) to watch out for, I'm afraid it will be worse for the gunnie, not better.
The best you could hope for in a gunnie is that with the extra forms of AV will keep the maddies at bay. While the extra forms of AV will affect a gunnie to a lesser extent, in the end it will still have a further negative impact on their performance.
What's the damage threshold for regen on gunnies? Not positive, but it's low enough that a pro blaster will still stop regen with 2 hards up. Meaning a freedom mass driver should be sufficient to stop regen as it does more damage per shot over the blaster. I suspect as well a flaylock pistol will have enough power to stop shield regen as well. But it would be nice to know the exact threshold number. With explosives being -20 vs Shields, I'm not sure a MD will stop the regen unless it's a BMD. 264 damage to shields, It most certainly should, considering the large blaster does 195 per shot and still breaks regen with hards up.
Is that the Breach or the Freedom?
Purifier. First Class.
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 18:01:00 -
[616] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:
Is that the Breach or the Freedom?
Freedom, according to proto fits.
Mind you this is direct impact damage, something you don't often observe using against infantry but will most def see against tanks. |
Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
791
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 18:11:00 -
[617] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Megaman Trigger wrote:
Is that the Breach or the Freedom?
Freedom, according to proto fits. Mind you this is direct impact damage, something you don't often observe using against infantry but will most def see against tanks.
Will certainly be interesting to see how things go.
Purifier. First Class.
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 18:58:00 -
[618] - Quote
Devadander wrote:Currently, with dual regs and no hardener running, I can drive past a blaster installation and not worry about it. Turn on a hardener and I can stand off on it balancing my heat until I destroy it.
I can also tank anything but ions ATM, modded or not, with a hardener running. But even a full contact salvo from xt will not pop a dual hard maddy.
I like that we got love, but it won't dethrone madrugars.
My fit is:
Ext
Hard
Dual boost (basic lights to kick in emergency regen)
Dual reg (with these even a basic light boost will engage full regen cycle)
Heat sink for gunners
Effective vs anything but prodrugar ion. ( and other missile boats)
I expect to be able to tank some serious blaster fire after ff hits given my addiction to dual regs. Killing the hull its on is another thread entirely....
I'm sorry, but it's not possible to simply tank blaster fire with just a single hardener. Unless you are some how repping DURING the blasters fire, you are not doing what you describe yourself as doing. The only thing that has any chance of taking blaster fire uses two hardeners.
Duel regs are doing absolutely nothing, you simply won't have enough time to activate passive shield regen. Even if you do, a single bullet from the blaster will negate any regen done. If anything, your boosters are doing the work, negating the recharge delay and kick starting your passive regen.
Though again the blaster will negate that regen. Without regs, boosters will still initiate your full regen cycle btw. So a blaster maddie will hands down drop you in less then 10 seconds, not to mention one running damage mod and heatsink.
And don't even pretend like you can take a rail maddie with that fit. You won't, not anyone with any skills and experience in tanks. It will require you to land 7+ shots at the very least, and the maddie will have both a heatsink and damage mod with full tank.
Even if you broke engagement to recharge, the maddie will still be full and no doubt cooled down ready to go at you full strength again.
I've tanked for a very long time, and honestly I've never found a gunnie that even stood half a chance, even WITH 2 freakin gunners, in this new build. I've tried a fit similar to yours with duel regs. It doesn't work, it's half assed and weak in comparison to a whole slew of other fits.
Competitively, I see so many holes in that fit it's not even funny. I'm sorry man, but I gotta call you out on this one. Boosters, not regs, are creating the things you see. That's the main strength of your build, NOT the regs.
You could drop the regs, pop on cpu/pg boosters, and focus on better things for your high slots and probably see MORE improvement in your fit. Complex hvy ext, cplx hard, cplx small boosters ( for the faster CD times), and a cplx HS (maybe even better guns for your gunners). But dude, those regs are doing you absolutely no good with the weak recharge rate at current.
Seriously, try what I said an you won't even notice the loss of those regs. Regs are not affecting your boosters. |
Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
758
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 19:23:00 -
[619] - Quote
I have 17 HAV fits, 60m+ sp into HAV, and have been here since the beginning.
So please just don't.
I'm telling you what I have seen with my own eyes. The boosters do jack under fire except kickstart regen (with hardener up they do a full cycle but are basic lights sooo....)
Without dual regs I do NOT experience same shield effect.
Have stood my ground on turrets many a time.
Killed many rail tanks. (I'm known to put neutrons on gunnis..)
Have NEVER been a rail nor redline tanker...
Out of those 17 fits ... 2 are madrugars... I run gunni in current build, often. Exactly ZERO other fits perform like the dual regger. I don't get you man.. We got a problem idk about?
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 19:37:00 -
[620] - Quote
Devadander wrote:I have 17 HAV fits, 60m+ sp into HAV, and have been here since the beginning.
So please just don't.
I'm telling you what I have seen with my own eyes. The boosters do jack under fire except kickstart regen (with hardener up they do a full cycle but are basic lights sooo....)
Without dual regs I do NOT experience same shield effect.
Have stood my ground on turrets many a time.
Killed many rail tanks. (I'm known to put neutrons on gunnis..)
Have NEVER been a rail nor redline tanker...
Out of those 17 fits ... 2 are madrugars... I run gunni in current build, often. Exactly ZERO other fits perform like the dual regger. I don't get you man.. We got a problem idk about?
Sorry man, but technically regs should have no affect on booster performance. So forgive me if I have a hard time believing you on this. I've personally had booster work under blaster fire and other times not.
Let me get this clear, are you say that regs seem to somehow augment your booster so that they work while under fire to full affect. Because that honestly makes absolutely no sense. If it some how is the case, then it may point to where boosters are failing.
Though I would have to personally test this, I feel something else is going on here not related to the regs.
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
758
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 19:49:00 -
[621] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Devadander wrote:I have 17 HAV fits, 60m+ sp into HAV, and have been here since the beginning.
So please just don't.
I'm telling you what I have seen with my own eyes. The boosters do jack under fire except kickstart regen (with hardener up they do a full cycle but are basic lights sooo....)
Without dual regs I do NOT experience same shield effect.
Have stood my ground on turrets many a time.
Killed many rail tanks. (I'm known to put neutrons on gunnis..)
Have NEVER been a rail nor redline tanker...
Out of those 17 fits ... 2 are madrugars... I run gunni in current build, often. Exactly ZERO other fits perform like the dual regger. I don't get you man.. We got a problem idk about? Sorry man, but technically regs should have no affect on booster performance. So forgive me if I have a hard time believing you on this. I've personally had booster work under blaster fire and other times not. Let me get this clear, are you saying that regs seem to somehow augment your booster so that they work while under fire to full affect. Because that honestly makes absolutely no sense. If it some how is the case, then it may point to where boosters are failing. Though I would have to personally test this, I feel something else is going on here not related to the regs.
With dual regs, activating a booster seems to make shield continue to regen under fire till regen rate gets defeated. Without I cannot duplicate.
*shrug*
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 19:57:00 -
[622] - Quote
Devadander wrote:
With dual regs, activating a booster seems to make shield continue to regen under fire till regen rate gets defeated. Without I cannot duplicate.
*shrug*
Full regen happens after one second. You should instantly get full benefit from booster. Anything else after is your passive regen, not booster regen. |
Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
759
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 20:25:00 -
[623] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Devadander wrote:
With dual regs, activating a booster seems to make shield continue to regen under fire till regen rate gets defeated. Without I cannot duplicate.
*shrug*
Full regen happens after one second. You should instantly get full benefit from booster. Anything else after is your passive regen, not booster regen. Have to test myself, but I'm not sure on this. There should be no correlation between a booster and regs.
I know all this. But I have not seen shields regen under fire without dual regs since the great nerf.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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ColdBlooded Max
Capital Acquisitions LLC
297
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 20:31:00 -
[624] - Quote
sorry but all this shield talk think about the cr i can see now ill be running away alot more now because we all know the cr dont do **** to shield
and before u say use ur sidearm i am a min logi |
Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
792
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 20:34:00 -
[625] - Quote
ColdBlooded Max wrote:sorry but all this shield talk think about the cr i can see now ill be running away alot more now because we all know the cr dont do **** to shield and before u say use ur sidearm i am a min logi
Why not use a Flux Grenade?
Purifier. First Class.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 21:03:00 -
[626] - Quote
Oh wow. I just realized how much potential tegen can happen between forge shots on a gunnlogi.
This could get ugly quickly.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
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Posted - 2015.09.28 21:29:00 -
[627] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Oh wow. I just realized how much potential tegen can happen between forge shots on a gunnlogi. This could get ugly quickly.
440 right. Not to mention your -10 to shields. Eh maybe, but I'm betting you won't be the only one hitting it. And that fuel cell damage will be utterly insane. A gunnies fuel cell is SOO much easier to hit too. Thing sticks out like a sore thumb. |
Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
760
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 21:36:00 -
[628] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Oh wow. I just realized how much potential tegen can happen between forge shots on a gunnlogi. This could get ugly quickly.
My crappy math puts a dual reg gunni starting regen at around .4-.6. Then add new regen rate and a hardener...
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
760
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 21:46:00 -
[629] - Quote
All this tank talk is moot if commandos deal full punch damage to HAV....
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Tebu Gan
Capital Acquisitions LLC
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 22:02:00 -
[630] - Quote
Devadander wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Oh wow. I just realized how much potential tegen can happen between forge shots on a gunnlogi. This could get ugly quickly. My crappy math puts a dual reg gunni starting regen at around .4-.6. Then add new regen rate and a hardener...
Considering they no doubt have stacking penalties, it would be roughly 1.6 - 1.8 seconds shaved off. So about 1.4 - 1.6 to start regen with 2. |
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Genral69 death
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
776
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 22:20:00 -
[631] - Quote
Devadander wrote:All this tank talk is moot if commandos deal full punch damage to HAV....
That's if commando can get passed the muiltple grenades being thrown
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 22:33:00 -
[632] - Quote
Tebu Gan wrote:Devadander wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Oh wow. I just realized how much potential tegen can happen between forge shots on a gunnlogi. This could get ugly quickly. My crappy math puts a dual reg gunni starting regen at around .4-.6. Then add new regen rate and a hardener... Considering they no doubt have stacking penalties, it would be roughly 1.6 - 1.8 seconds shaved off. So about 1.4 - 1.6 to start regen with 2.
Yeah, a double Regulator Gunny would have a 3*.65 (1st Reg) *.756 (2nd Reg @86% efficacy) = 1.47s recharge delay.
The point is moot, however, as fitting those two modules gives you basically no room to fit anything decent in your highs/turret slots.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
760
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 22:37:00 -
[633] - Quote
If I use a HEP mod on my minmando I can punch for over 1300.
So if melee does full damage to weak spot all HAV are doomed.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Jadek Menaheim
1nner.Heaven
7
|
Posted - 2015.09.28 23:49:00 -
[634] - Quote
Devadander wrote:If I use a HEP mod on my minmando I can punch for over 1300.
So if melee does full damage to weak spot all HAV are doomed.
It does 150% damage to weakspots.
That would be a sustained 3900 DPS if you have either a sidearm or equipment piece out to increase melee animation speed.
Bear in mind, you'll likely die to the vehicle explosion if you are standing back there. It's better to stand on top and phase glitch upon vehicle destruction. Any tanker worth their salt will spot your glowing Commando ass on the tacnet and not stay put.
https://youtu.be/iIZZSAKS3wY?t=2m15s
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Jadek Menaheim
1nner.Heaven
7
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 00:08:00 -
[635] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Oh wow. I just realized how much potential tegen can happen between forge shots on a gunnlogi. This could get ugly quickly.
Wiyrikomi Breach with damage mods
Direct Hit vs Shields [2154] Hp
Direct Hit vs Armor [3027] Hp
HAV Weapoints
Forge Gun
1.1% Body = 3330hp
0.9% Shield = 1938.6hp
2.75% Unshielded Fuel Cell = 8324.25hp
2.25% Protected Fuel Cell = 4846.5hp
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Genral69 death
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
777
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 00:11:00 -
[636] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Oh wow. I just realized how much potential tegen can happen between forge shots on a gunnlogi. This could get ugly quickly. Wiyrikomi Breach with damage modsDirect Hit vs Shields [2154] Hp Direct Hit vs Armor [3027] Hp HAV Weapoints Forge Gun 1.1% Body = 3330hp 0.9% Shield = 1938.6hp 2.75% Unshielded Fuel Cell = 8324.25hp 2.25% Protected Fuel Cell = 4846.5hp
This is true but how often do you see there rear end of a hav when your using a forge gun? Especially a breach forge
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
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Jadek Menaheim
1nner.Heaven
7
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 00:22:00 -
[637] - Quote
Genral69 death wrote:This is true but how often do you see there rear end of a hav when your using a forge gun? Especially a breach forge
Admittedly, not frequently and especially if it is a redline tanker.
However, cheap suicide minmandos might be more effective taking on these redline tanks.
HALO jump onto tank.
https://youtu.be/g_93gJrrB44?t=32s
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 12:11:00 -
[638] - Quote
Is it out ???
Bring your daughter... TO THE SLAUGHTER !
- Sequal Rise
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
761
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 13:33:00 -
[639] - Quote
E.T.A....?
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
794
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 13:41:00 -
[640] - Quote
6th of October, I'm guessing, if it's not out today.
Purifier. First Class.
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Genral69 death
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
783
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 13:45:00 -
[641] - Quote
Just realised with the changes coming to the gal assault, your out doing the gal commando.
If the assault get a fire rate bonus, you would get more damage out of the assault rather than the gal commando .
Also if the bonus is only for the gal assault, the assult rifle will still suck completely in the hands of any other suit.
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
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Rhist Stormshield
Woodgrain Atari
15
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 14:19:00 -
[642] - Quote
Perhaps we'll see more racial weapons on the proper suits then.
Tired of seeing the Rail rifle on Gallente assaults. |
Genral69 death
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
785
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 14:33:00 -
[643] - Quote
Rhist Stormshield wrote:Perhaps we'll see more racial weapons on the proper suits then.
Tired of seeing the Rail rifle on Gallente assaults.
Not really the gal's fault, they just want some range
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
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zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
792
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 14:49:00 -
[644] - Quote
ColdBlooded Max wrote:sorry but all this shield talk think about the cr i can see now ill be running away alot more now because we all know the cr dont do **** to shield and before u say use ur sidearm i am a min logi
Switch to ASCR |
Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
761
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 17:39:00 -
[645] - Quote
Genral69 death wrote:Rhist Stormshield wrote:Perhaps we'll see more racial weapons on the proper suits then.
Tired of seeing the Rail rifle on Gallente assaults. Not really the gal's fault, they just want some range
What's the amarr and matari excuse then?....
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Daddrobit
You Can Call Me Daddy
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 19:59:00 -
[646] - Quote
Genral69 death wrote:Just realised with the changes coming to the gal assault, your out doing the gal commando.
If the assault get a fire rate bonus, you would get more damage out of the assault rather than the gal commando .
Also if the bonus is only for the gal assault, the assult rifle will still suck completely in the hands of any other suit.
Well, with the nerfs coming to the other assault weapons, although it won't itself be any better in the hands of unbonused suits than it is currently, it will fare better overall by virtue of the others being brought down to its level. It might still not be "good" per se, but it'll technically be a more considerable choice.
Also the Galmando isn't completely for lack of use. That damage bonus does wonders for the PLC and Shotguns, both weapons that won't be affected by the new ROF bonus.
An Allotek with Damage Mods on a Galmando hitting a Gunni's weakspot? I think that's closing in on 4k damage right there.
Mmmmmmmmm...
O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.29 21:37:00 -
[647] - Quote
Mortedeamor wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Some of the changes appears to be good....I have to wait until it plays out to determine if any is helpful or too much. But am excited to see how the gameplay will change. Because it WILL ABSOLUTELY change......I feel a lot of respecs in the near future. Luckily, for some...we already have it all :) nade spam enjoy that u can throw 20 grenades with adv nanos ..so yeah this is gunna be terrible for a bit until ccp fixes it .... really what they need to do is make it so locus nades cant be resupplied by nanos
Or better yet, make grenade resupply timer longer - like 20s or so.
That would rid most of the spam.
KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
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Rhist Stormshield
Woodgrain Atari
17
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 00:45:00 -
[648] - Quote
Genral69 death wrote:Rhist Stormshield wrote:Perhaps we'll see more racial weapons on the proper suits then.
Tired of seeing the Rail rifle on Gallente assaults. Not really the gal's fault, they just want some range
Then what about the Breach and Tac AR? |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 04:25:00 -
[649] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Oh wow. I just realized how much potential tegen can happen between forge shots on a gunnlogi. This could get ugly quickly. Wiyrikomi Breach with damage modsDirect Hit vs Shields [2154] Hp Direct Hit vs Armor [3027] Hp HAV Weapoints Forge Gun 1.1% Body = 3330hp 0.9% Shield = 1938.6hp 2.75% Unshielded Fuel Cell = 8324.25hp 2.25% Protected Fuel Cell = 4846.5hp Coordinated ambushes with a player fluxing shields and a forger following up with a shot to the fuel cell are going to be very potent.
Numbers are wrong.
It's 250% weakspot not 275 on the forge. Did the math already. It's a bit over 7000 damage.
Max damage from a breach forge on unhardened armor before warbarge is 2993 and some decimel places.
3,172.5 after warbarge.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Foehammerr
Dead Man's Game
218
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 04:34:00 -
[650] - Quote
Rhist Stormshield wrote:Genral69 death wrote:Rhist Stormshield wrote:Perhaps we'll see more racial weapons on the proper suits then.
Tired of seeing the Rail rifle on Gallente assaults. Not really the gal's fault, they just want some range Then what about the Breach and Tac AR?
Still short range weapons. The max range range other the is the same as the optimal for the assault rail. Plus it's technically not wrong to use rails on Gallente dropsuits.
De Opresso Liber
Beta Vet since 2/5/2013
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Jadek Menaheim
1nner.Heaven
7
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Posted - 2015.09.30 07:11:00 -
[651] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
Numbers are wrong.
It's 250% weakspot not 275 on the forge. Did the math already. It's a bit over 7000 damage.
Max damage from a breach forge on unhardened armor before warbarge is 2993 and some decimel places.
3,172.5 after warbarge.
Not according to the photos rattati posted.
By what you're saying a Plasma cannon pointed at the weakspot of an HAV should be showing 150% not 165% (as the photo shows).
I'm calculating damage in both shielded and unshielded states according to the damage vs shields and damage vs armor data from protofits (I also fit an adv CalSent with 3 Complex Dmg and 1 Adv Damage mod).
Dust 514 Market Trello. The essential resource for trading in Dust.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 07:19:00 -
[652] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
Numbers are wrong.
It's 250% weakspot not 275 on the forge. Did the math already. It's a bit over 7000 damage.
Max damage from a breach forge on unhardened armor before warbarge is 2993 and some decimel places.
3,172.5 after warbarge.
Not according to the photos rattati posted.By what you're saying a Plasma cannon pointed at the weakspot of an HAV should be showing 150% not 165% (as the photo shows). I'm calculating damage in both shielded and unshielded states according to the damage vs shields and damage vs armor data from protofits (I also fit an adv CalSent with 3 Complex Dmg and 1 Adv Damage mod).
the percentages shown on the tactical readout in game go up and down based on skill modifiers (such as weapon proficiency) otherwise a forge gun would read 90% when pointed at the glacis plate of a shielded gunnlogi.
the raw numbers often don't add up to what we see in the game. the armor of a madrugar weakspot shows me something ridiculous like 247% efficiency pre-hotfix, so my assessment of the percentage values shown is iffy.
but you take base damage, add skills, add damage mods, modify by profile and then do the multiplier (in the spreadsheet, not on the example images) to get the correct damage.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
1
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Posted - 2015.09.30 07:20:00 -
[653] - Quote
Jadek Menaheim wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:
Numbers are wrong.
It's 250% weakspot not 275 on the forge. Did the math already. It's a bit over 7000 damage.
Max damage from a breach forge on unhardened armor before warbarge is 2993 and some decimel places.
3,172.5 after warbarge.
Not according to the photos rattati posted.By what you're saying a Plasma cannon pointed at the weakspot of an HAV should be showing 150% not 165% (as the photo shows). I'm calculating damage in both shielded and unshielded states according to the damage vs shields and damage vs armor data from protofits (I also fit an adv CalSent with 3 Complex Dmg and 1 Adv Damage mod).
Mmhh. I think the +15% comes from the proficiency lvl 5 of the PLC that increases the damage only on shield ^^
Bring your daughter... TO THE SLAUGHTER !
- Sequal Rise
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Genral69 death
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
788
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 09:14:00 -
[654] - Quote
Rhist Stormshield wrote:Genral69 death wrote:Rhist Stormshield wrote:Perhaps we'll see more racial weapons on the proper suits then.
Tired of seeing the Rail rifle on Gallente assaults. Not really the gal's fault, they just want some range Then what about the Breach and Tac AR?
Breach shoots too damn slow
I was using it yesterday on my gko commando, don't get me wrong its a great weapon for shield but if your trying to take down a Amor suit. Your gona be there a while
The tac is good but it requires a good trigger finger to use
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
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Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
954
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 12:33:00 -
[655] - Quote
The hotfix isn't out yet is it?
Wanna play eve?
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
260
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 12:38:00 -
[656] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:The hotfix isn't out yet is it?
Let me check *gets lit up by a scrambler rifle in .5 seconds*...... Nope........
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
954
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 12:39:00 -
[657] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:The hotfix isn't out yet is it? Let me check *gets lit up by a scrambler rifle in .5 seconds*...... Nope........
Alright cool.
Wanna play eve?
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rayakalj9
Opus Arcana
35
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 16:10:00 -
[658] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Francois Sanchez wrote:A few things worry me :
The gal RoF bonus seems too good, and keep in mind it will buff variants such as the breach and the tactical that don't need a buff. It will also buff shotguns.
Reducing turn radius of swarm is actually a buff, it allows you to shoot around corners. I can't count the number of times a vehicle tried to escape behind something and my swarms turned so quickly they hit the obstacle. With reduced turn radius they'll get around and hit the vehicule.
Range nerf to ACR... Why? It already performs poorly after 50m
Magsec buff is a bit too much, half the damage buff would seem more adapted
I like the rest breach, burst and tactical all perform worse than the rest. The whole Gallente Rifle family needs a buff.
Yeah i know the Gallente rifle need some love. but what about the breach rail rifle? i mean as far as i see, it needs a little love in the charge up time
born jamaican
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Toobar Zoobar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
162
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 17:08:00 -
[659] - Quote
rayakalj9 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Francois Sanchez wrote:A few things worry me :
The gal RoF bonus seems too good, and keep in mind it will buff variants such as the breach and the tactical that don't need a buff. It will also buff shotguns.
Reducing turn radius of swarm is actually a buff, it allows you to shoot around corners. I can't count the number of times a vehicle tried to escape behind something and my swarms turned so quickly they hit the obstacle. With reduced turn radius they'll get around and hit the vehicule.
Range nerf to ACR... Why? It already performs poorly after 50m
Magsec buff is a bit too much, half the damage buff would seem more adapted
I like the rest breach, burst and tactical all perform worse than the rest. The whole Gallente Rifle family needs a buff. Yeah i know the Gallente rifle need some love. but what about the breach rail rifle? i mean as far as i see, it needs a little love in the charge up time
The wot? breach rail rifle? and it needs a buff you say?
Come to think of it... my proton vortex lightning grenade also needs a buff. Rattati can you buff that too!!!
Specialization: Making typo's.
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Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
955
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 17:09:00 -
[660] - Quote
Toobar Zoobar wrote:rayakalj9 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Francois Sanchez wrote:A few things worry me :
The gal RoF bonus seems too good, and keep in mind it will buff variants such as the breach and the tactical that don't need a buff. It will also buff shotguns.
Reducing turn radius of swarm is actually a buff, it allows you to shoot around corners. I can't count the number of times a vehicle tried to escape behind something and my swarms turned so quickly they hit the obstacle. With reduced turn radius they'll get around and hit the vehicule.
Range nerf to ACR... Why? It already performs poorly after 50m
Magsec buff is a bit too much, half the damage buff would seem more adapted
I like the rest breach, burst and tactical all perform worse than the rest. The whole Gallente Rifle family needs a buff. Yeah i know the Gallente rifle need some love. but what about the breach rail rifle? i mean as far as i see, it needs a little love in the charge up time The wot? breach rail rifle? and it needs a buff you say? Come to think of it... my proton vortex lightning grenade also needs a buff. Rattati can you buff that too!!!
He meant the vanilla rail rifle. :)
Wanna play eve?
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|
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Toobar Zoobar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
162
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 17:12:00 -
[661] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Toobar Zoobar wrote:rayakalj9 wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Francois Sanchez wrote:A few things worry me :
The gal RoF bonus seems too good, and keep in mind it will buff variants such as the breach and the tactical that don't need a buff. It will also buff shotguns.
Reducing turn radius of swarm is actually a buff, it allows you to shoot around corners. I can't count the number of times a vehicle tried to escape behind something and my swarms turned so quickly they hit the obstacle. With reduced turn radius they'll get around and hit the vehicule.
Range nerf to ACR... Why? It already performs poorly after 50m
Magsec buff is a bit too much, half the damage buff would seem more adapted
I like the rest breach, burst and tactical all perform worse than the rest. The whole Gallente Rifle family needs a buff. Yeah i know the Gallente rifle need some love. but what about the breach rail rifle? i mean as far as i see, it needs a little love in the charge up time The wot? breach rail rifle? and it needs a buff you say? Come to think of it... my proton vortex lightning grenade also needs a buff. Rattati can you buff that too!!! He meant the vanilla rail rifle. :)
And I obviously meant the thukker contact grenade
Specialization: Making typo's.
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Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
955
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 17:14:00 -
[662] - Quote
Dirty thukker
Wanna play eve?
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argel999
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
27
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 18:38:00 -
[663] - Quote
Genral69 death wrote:Rhist Stormshield wrote:Genral69 death wrote:Rhist Stormshield wrote:Perhaps we'll see more racial weapons on the proper suits then.
Tired of seeing the Rail rifle on Gallente assaults. Not really the gal's fault, they just want some range Then what about the Breach and Tac AR? Breach shoots too damn slow I was using it yesterday on my gko commando, don't get me wrong its a great weapon for shield but if your trying to take down a Amor suit. Your gona be there a while The tac is good but it requires a good trigger finger to use
I guess that ROF will be improved after Hotfix with the new ROF Gallente Bonus.
...SLAYER...
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KingBabar
The Rainbow Effect
2
|
Posted - 2015.09.30 20:51:00 -
[664] - Quote
Daddrobit wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
Locus Grenade damage progression made Standard and Advanced grenades fairly useless, so we are going to have the same damage for all tiears, with increasing radius per tier. We are also fixing the Packed Locus and buffing the Fused Grenades considerably.
As assume that the sentence "with increasing radius per tier" means that the nades keep their current progressive blast radius, I can say: This is an excellent change and a needed one. Anyone objecting to this should realise even a slight blast radius buff means more practical damage because of the way damage is calcultated to the center of the blast. Objections to the nades aren't about how it was handled by having progression only affect blast radius, our objection is that everyone and their mother who carries even a basic nade will now have two 600 damage thunder nuggets in their pocket. We figured, (when this idea has been asked for before) that they would normalize damage to around the advanced tier, something like 450 damage. As it stands with the new changes, even a milita nade will do old core damage. Which is goddamned bonkers if you ask me.
So Kero,
Nades (at least low tier) is getting buffed and thats a good or indeed needed thing in Dust?
Keep in mind the hive buffs too.
@ Dad and everyone else: I really don't mind the 600 damage, but not with these blast radiuses. I don't mind at all dying to a single nade in any sort of light or medium suit, as long as that nade takes skill and precision to use.
The overall nade mechanic in Dust is the best I've ever seen, you cook it and have 4 seconds to decide when (in addition to where) its getting thrown, or blown up in your face if you wait too long.
If the blast radiuses where smaller across the line, pinpoint precision (Skill shot, or rather: throw) would be greatly awarded vs spamming, which would be useless in many situations or based on luck at best.
Its hard to say due to blast radius dammage falloff, but perhaps with 600 dammage the radiuses should be something like:
3m - 4.5m - 6m?
In any case: Rattati - These changes will not end well, I'm fairly certain about that.
Spkr4theDead wrote:
Says the guy that was quitting the game because CCP were nerfing fused locus grenades.
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Viktor Skirov
Algintal Core
Gallente Federation
70
|
Posted - 2015.10.01 01:28:00 -
[665] - Quote
-+Would also giving the RoF bonus to Ion Pistols cause some problems?
I don't mean anything bad, I'm just wondering.
Would be a blessing if it my suit could help me with my over sapling syndrome.
Officially a ghost....
Spoooooooooky
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YUUKI TERUMI
Carne Con Papas
134
|
Posted - 2015.10.01 07:42:00 -
[666] - Quote
Francois Sanchez wrote:A few things worry me :
The gal RoF bonus seems too good, and keep in mind it will buff variants such as the breach and the tactical that don't need a buff. It will also buff shotguns.
Reducing turn radius of swarm is actually a buff, it allows you to shoot around corners. I can't count the number of times a vehicle tried to escape behind something and my swarms turned so quickly they hit the obstacle. With reduced turn radius they'll get around and hit the vehicule.
Range nerf to ACR... Why? It already performs poorly after 50m
Magsec buff is a bit too much, half the damage buff would seem more adapted
I like the rest
I agree. Shotguns need to be buffed. Dunno if you play pcs. Last pcs i played were full of bons shotgun users and it was impossible to use a proto shotgun. It will be a lot easier now to kill those officer fags ;)
Amarr logi, all scouts, all assaults, Caldari and Minmatar commando, Caldari sentinel. Mithril Forge hater
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DeathwindRising
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.01 10:53:00 -
[667] - Quote
YUUKI TERUMI wrote:Francois Sanchez wrote:A few things worry me :
The gal RoF bonus seems too good, and keep in mind it will buff variants such as the breach and the tactical that don't need a buff. It will also buff shotguns.
Reducing turn radius of swarm is actually a buff, it allows you to shoot around corners. I can't count the number of times a vehicle tried to escape behind something and my swarms turned so quickly they hit the obstacle. With reduced turn radius they'll get around and hit the vehicule.
Range nerf to ACR... Why? It already performs poorly after 50m
Magsec buff is a bit too much, half the damage buff would seem more adapted
I like the rest I agree. Shotguns need to be buffed. Dunno if you play pcs. Last pcs i played were full of bons shotgun users and it was impossible to use a proto shotgun. It will be a lot easier now to kill those officer fags ;)
its been said and confirmed MULTIPLE times in this thread that the new gal bonus ONLY applies to ARs |
Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.01 13:44:00 -
[668] - Quote
Well, CCP said it SHOULD only apply to ARs.. It's CCP we're talking about guys ^^
Is it out ?
Bring your daughter... TO THE SLAUGHTER !
- Sequal Rise
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XxGhazbaranxX
0.P.
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.01 18:27:00 -
[669] - Quote
Francois Sanchez wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
breach, burst and tactical all perform worse than the rest. The whole Gallente Rifle family needs a buff.
That's not the impression I have about the breach and the tactical but if you say so I trust you as you have access to much more data. However seems unfair when you look at the galmando : 25% ROF bonus means 25% extra DPS vs 10% for the commando...
DPS is not the same o\as alpha. wth the tac ar it is beneficial to hacve higher lafa for beter damage projection
Plasma Cannon Advocate
|
Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
956
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 01:59:00 -
[670] - Quote
So what is happening? When is the hotfix going to be released?
Wanna play eve?
|
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fragmentedhackslash
Ancient Exiles.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
392
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 02:10:00 -
[671] - Quote
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2980447#post2980447
[49FYD FRAG] INDEPENDENT CONTRACTOR
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
391
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 21:07:00 -
[672] - Quote
Magsec OP.
Trust me. Making the proto magsec dish out current officer stats is insane. I use this thing religiously as my sidearm, only sidearm I'm skilled into. I've been ghosting on the forums until i saw this.
Please, do not buff the magsec. It's already a powerful sidearm once skill is invested. I know one person isn't much to say what will be balanced but this is too much at once. Either charge time or damage, not both.. And I suggest a lower increase to the damage aswell
The ADS tourney! Join today!
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
263
|
Posted - 2015.10.03 21:28:00 -
[673] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:Magsec OP.
Trust me. Making the proto magsec dish out current officer stats is insane. I use this thing religiously as my sidearm, only sidearm I'm skilled into. I've been ghosting on the forums until i saw this.
Please, do not buff the magsec. It's already a powerful sidearm once skill is invested. I know one person isn't much to say what will be balanced but this is too much at once. Either charge time or damage, not both.. And I suggest a lower increase to the damage aswell
Magsec is trash AND is exactly the same as the Breach SMG, literally there is NO difference between the 2 weapon's, it's also WAY too close to being an AR, if they were going to buff it for giggles, they could've just buffed the Magsecs ROF to 800 and say "Which one's different, the AR or the MAGSEC? YOU DECIDE!", that being said, it's a railgun weapon, and every OTHER railgun weapon has high damage, secondly all because 1 man can use it good, does mean its not worth buffing, whether or not it's OP I can't simply decide without actually seeing these stats in action.
Besides, as a sniper, I'll finally be able to run in the for fronts with my group with it and not be an incredibly worthless team mate waving a large wand around. Also officer weapon's are OP in general, no reason to keep this gun down. It's an SMG, it has a lower ROF than even the AR and DPS wise is still going to be un-eventful, you'll see a lot more people wielding it, but thats called FOTM, it happens all the time.
And yes, I have actually used it, can hardly kill anything with it, even at proto level with 3 sidearm damage mod's, simply because of the wiggle game.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
391
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 02:06:00 -
[674] - Quote
I said buff one or the other, not both charge and damage.
Also along with the kick skill from calAssault, it's a 3x buff basically.
I know tons of people who use the magsec effectively. A proto magsec, at prof 5 it's nearly equivalent to an SL-4 (base damage) in your pocket, while having higher rof than the ARR.
I just feel like it's too much at once for the thing. Like sure it could be trash to you, but doing so much at once is a little rash imho
The ADS tourney! Join today!
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
797
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 02:07:00 -
[675] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:I said buff one or the other, not both charge and damage.
Also along with the kick skill from calAssault, it's a 3x buff basically.
I know tons of people who use the magsec effectively. A proto magsec, at prof 5 it's nearly equivalent to an SL-4 (base damage) in your pocket, while having higher rof than the ARR.
I just feel like it's too much at once for the thing. Like sure it could be trash to you, but doing so much at once is a little rash imho
Fairly certain kick reduction is rifles only.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
392
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 02:10:00 -
[676] - Quote
Devadander wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:I said buff one or the other, not both charge and damage.
Also along with the kick skill from calAssault, it's a 3x buff basically.
I know tons of people who use the magsec effectively. A proto magsec, at prof 5 it's nearly equivalent to an SL-4 (base damage) in your pocket, while having higher rof than the ARR.
I just feel like it's too much at once for the thing. Like sure it could be trash to you, but doing so much at once is a little rash imho Fairly certain kick reduction is rifles only.
Fairly thankful for the clarification!
The ADS tourney! Join today!
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
797
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 02:16:00 -
[677] - Quote
I'm hoping the spool redux will reduce the amount of quick swap no-fires
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Jalame La Bola
Shining Flame
Amarr Empire
90
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 03:20:00 -
[678] - Quote
Scanners need to be nerfed
Mamenme El Bicho.
Mami's a hurricane, you should see the way she blow me.
Hecho en Puerto Pobre.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
264
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 03:37:00 -
[679] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:I said buff one or the other, not both charge and damage.
Also along with the kick skill from calAssault, it's a 3x buff basically.
I know tons of people who use the magsec effectively. A proto magsec, at prof 5 it's nearly equivalent to an SL-4 (base damage) in your pocket, while having higher rof than the ARR.
I just feel like it's too much at once for the thing. Like sure it could be trash to you, but doing so much at once is a little rash imho
Not nearly as much as an SL-4 a standard model ARR with a few damage mod's, sure, but NO where near the SL-4, perhaps at proto level, but even then it requires at least a damage mod or 2 to get that level of damage, even with profile damage, cause you have to remember, you're going to be shooting further than 40meter's with this gun, meaning to get efficient kills, you need to be stacking a number of damage mod's to even remotely kill at 60 meter's, simply because it's damage is practically the same as the AR and the fact that it has a much slower rate of fire than the AR, (which is why said rifle will always beat the magsec going head to head).
I understand your concern's, but I don't feel like it's going to be a bad thing in the long run, since many other gun's, every rifle especially, can kill most targets in a matter of second's anyway.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
264
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 03:43:00 -
[680] - Quote
Devadander wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:I said buff one or the other, not both charge and damage.
Also along with the kick skill from calAssault, it's a 3x buff basically.
I know tons of people who use the magsec effectively. A proto magsec, at prof 5 it's nearly equivalent to an SL-4 (base damage) in your pocket, while having higher rof than the ARR.
I just feel like it's too much at once for the thing. Like sure it could be trash to you, but doing so much at once is a little rash imho Fairly certain kick reduction is rifles only.
No it say's Railgun per level, so it'll effect the SMG and sniper rifle too I suppose. Sorry for Double Post.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 10:49:00 -
[681] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:Devadander wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:I said buff one or the other, not both charge and damage.
Also along with the kick skill from calAssault, it's a 3x buff basically.
I know tons of people who use the magsec effectively. A proto magsec, at prof 5 it's nearly equivalent to an SL-4 (base damage) in your pocket, while having higher rof than the ARR.
I just feel like it's too much at once for the thing. Like sure it could be trash to you, but doing so much at once is a little rash imho Fairly certain kick reduction is rifles only. No it say's Railgun per level, so it'll effect the SMG and sniper rifle too I suppose. Sorry for Double Post.
^ Yop, Magsec will be OP. It'll bring some "new" weapons in the battlefield which isn't that bad !
Bring your daughter... TO THE SLAUGHTER !
- Sequal Rise
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
799
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 13:30:00 -
[682] - Quote
Sequal's Back wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote:Devadander wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:I said buff one or the other, not both charge and damage.
Also along with the kick skill from calAssault, it's a 3x buff basically.
I know tons of people who use the magsec effectively. A proto magsec, at prof 5 it's nearly equivalent to an SL-4 (base damage) in your pocket, while having higher rof than the ARR.
I just feel like it's too much at once for the thing. Like sure it could be trash to you, but doing so much at once is a little rash imho Fairly certain kick reduction is rifles only. No it say's Railgun per level, so it'll effect the SMG and sniper rifle too I suppose. Sorry for Double Post. ^ Yop, Magsec will be OP. It'll bring some "new" weapons in the battlefield which isn't that bad !
Rattati has rifles on post and railgun on sheet..
One typo makes a big difference in a crowd this anal LOL
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
|
Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
397
|
Posted - 2015.10.04 17:06:00 -
[683] - Quote
Zan Azikuchi wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:I said buff one or the other, not both charge and damage.
Also along with the kick skill from calAssault, it's a 3x buff basically.
I know tons of people who use the magsec effectively. A proto magsec, at prof 5 it's nearly equivalent to an SL-4 (base damage) in your pocket, while having higher rof than the ARR.
I just feel like it's too much at once for the thing. Like sure it could be trash to you, but doing so much at once is a little rash imho Not nearly as much as an SL-4 a standard model ARR with a few damage mod's, sure, but NO where near the SL-4, perhaps at proto level, but even then it requires at least a damage mod or 2 to get that level of damage, even with profile damage, cause you have to remember, you're going to be shooting further than 40meter's with this gun, meaning to get efficient kills, you need to be stacking a number of damage mod's to even remotely kill at 60 meter's, simply because it's damage is practically the same as the AR and the fact that it has a much slower rate of fire than the AR, (which is why said rifle will always beat the magsec going head to head). I understand your concern's, but I don't feel like it's going to be a bad thing in the long run, since many other gun's, every rifle especially, can kill most targets in a matter of second's anyway.
It surpasses the SL-4 w/o damage mods on armor. (this is not including prof on the ARR)
Alright, let's use the kaal vs SL-4 (since i remember the values from the top of my head)
Kaal: 34.1 damage.
SL-4: 40 damage.
Kaal at prof 5: 34.1*1.25 = 42.625 damage.
SL-4 at prof 0, damage profile included: 40*1.1 = 44 damage.
However, i said at base damage (40). The difference is 2.625 damage. Nevertheless, the magsec has a faster RoF than the ARR. This is why i say the pro magsec surpasses the adv ARR.
Now, i don't remember the RoF off the top of my head (cannot calculate dps then) but for a sidearm it hits with results comparable to the SL-4. Only lacking in range (approx 30 meters less)
Knowing the pro magsec will do officer level damage (37.4) let's do it again.
Kaal vs SL-4
Kaal damage: 37.4
SL-4 damage: 40
Kaal damage at prof 5: 37.4*1.25 = 46.75
SL-4 damage comparable to Kaal damage (prof 2) 40 * 1.16 = 46.4 damage.
The kaal at prof 5 will now surpass an Ishu w/o prof.
Along with faster RoF, i believe it will become OP.
I see where you are coming from though, nevertheless.
Edit: damage falloff begins around 44 meters, after about 55 damage attenuation is too high (56% efficiency against shield). (imo, people could say otherwise about it's effective range)
Forever ADS. Best role.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
270
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 04:00:00 -
[684] - Quote
You know, we could keep arguing about this, but we won't be able to know UNLESS we actually see it in game, many a time an in game show of a weapon's abilities vs those on paper differ, significantly.
And even if you believe it'll be OP, it's range is still going to be less than the ARR, range vs alpha, range tend's to win 90% of the time, just like armor does against shield.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
966
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 10:01:00 -
[685] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:Zan Azikuchi wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:I said buff one or the other, not both charge and damage.
Also along with the kick skill from calAssault, it's a 3x buff basically.
I know tons of people who use the magsec effectively. A proto magsec, at prof 5 it's nearly equivalent to an SL-4 (base damage) in your pocket, while having higher rof than the ARR.
I just feel like it's too much at once for the thing. Like sure it could be trash to you, but doing so much at once is a little rash imho Not nearly as much as an SL-4 a standard model ARR with a few damage mod's, sure, but NO where near the SL-4, perhaps at proto level, but even then it requires at least a damage mod or 2 to get that level of damage, even with profile damage, cause you have to remember, you're going to be shooting further than 40meter's with this gun, meaning to get efficient kills, you need to be stacking a number of damage mod's to even remotely kill at 60 meter's, simply because it's damage is practically the same as the AR and the fact that it has a much slower rate of fire than the AR, (which is why said rifle will always beat the magsec going head to head). I understand your concern's, but I don't feel like it's going to be a bad thing in the long run, since many other gun's, every rifle especially, can kill most targets in a matter of second's anyway. It surpasses the SL-4 w/o damage mods on armor. (this is not including prof on the ARR) Alright, let's use the kaal vs SL-4 (since i remember the values from the top of my head) Kaal: 34.1 damage. SL-4: 40 damage. Kaal at prof 5: 34.1*1.25 = 42.625 damage. SL-4 at prof 0, damage profile included: 40*1.1 = 44 damage. However, i said at base damage (40). The difference is 2.625 damage. Nevertheless, the magsec has a faster RoF than the ARR. This is why i say the pro magsec surpasses the adv ARR. Now, i don't remember the RoF off the top of my head (cannot calculate dps then) but for a sidearm it hits with results comparable to the SL-4. Only lacking in range (approx 30 meters less) Knowing the pro magsec will do officer level damage (37.4) let's do it again. Kaal vs SL-4 Kaal damage: 37.4 SL-4 damage: 40 Kaal damage at prof 5: 37.4*1.25 = 46.75 SL-4 damage comparable to Kaal damage (prof 2) 40 * 1.16 = 46.4 damage. The kaal at prof 5 will now surpass an Ishu w/o prof. Along with faster RoF, i believe it will become OP. I see where you are coming from though, nevertheless. Edit: damage falloff begins around 44 meters, after about 55 damage attenuation is too high (56% efficiency against shield). (imo, people could say otherwise about it's effective range)
It has half the optimal. I don't see how it's gonna be better than the ARR
Wanna play eve?
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
401
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 10:55:00 -
[686] - Quote
I'm saying for a sidearm it's very effective already. I'm not exactly saying "magsec > ARR" there's just nothing else to compare it to. I'm well aware this is a sidearm I'm comparing to a light weapon. So the obvious thing of range being worse -- is pretty apparent.
You do have a point though, paper doesn't equal reality... But going off CCP overdoing things sometimes, i feel doing both charge time and a significant damage increase is too much at once.
I feel like it's one or the other, then if it doesn't work out add both.
In the end, i guess we can only wait and see. Once it's in, we'll discuss again? :D
Forever ADS. Best role.
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Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
967
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 12:48:00 -
[687] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:I'm saying for a sidearm it's very effective already. I'm not exactly saying "magsec > ARR" there's just nothing else to compare it to. I'm well aware this is a sidearm I'm comparing to a light weapon. So the obvious thing of range being worse -- is pretty apparent.
You do have a point though, paper doesn't equal reality... But going off CCP overdoing things sometimes, i feel doing both charge time and a significant damage increase is too much at once.
I feel like it's one or the other, then if it doesn't work out add both.
In the end, i guess we can only wait and see. Once it's in, we'll discuss again? :D
If it's too good after the hotfix then sure, but at the moment it is lackluster.
Wanna play eve?
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 18:44:00 -
[688] - Quote
Is it confirmed now that the SL maneuverability parameter that was tweaked from 90 to 70 [units] and is proposed to be tweaked to 50 in Foxfour is indeed "max rotation [-¦]"?
If so I'll crosscheck this with my simulations in the next few days. Shouldn't be too hard. I still find it a very weird design parameter.
[Edit]
Current SLs don't seem to adhere to this:
- Lock on to a static LAV.
- Launch swarms in the opposite direction.
- SL missiles will perform a full 180-¦ turn.
- Foxfour design sheet says current maximum rotation is 70-¦.
I won't be able to give any feedback until this is resolved. |
Genral69 death
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
805
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 18:53:00 -
[689] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Is it confirmed now that the SL maneuverability parameter that was tweaked from 90 to 70 [units] and is proposed to be tweaked to 50 in Foxfour is indeed "max rotation [-¦]"?
If so I'll crosscheck this with my simulations in the next few days. Shouldn't be too hard. I still find it a very weird design parameter.
[Edit]
Current SLs don't seem to adhere to this:
- Lock on to a static LAV.
- Launch missiles in the opposite direction.
- SL missiles will perform a full 180-¦ turn.
- Foxfour design sheet says current maximum rotation is 70-¦.
I won't be able to give any feedback until this is resolved.
Wait ill actually be able to dough swarms, holy duck!
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
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Ralden Caster
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
374
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 21:52:00 -
[690] - Quote
Is the only standard contact locus grenade the fused locus, as in the one you can only buy with aurum?
Gallente is photon gear confirmed.
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XxBlazikenxX
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 21:56:00 -
[691] - Quote
Ralden Caster wrote:Is the only standard contact locus grenade the fused locus, as in the one you can only buy with aurum?
No.
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
402
|
Posted - 2015.10.05 22:30:00 -
[692] - Quote
What about sleek locus grenades?
....
I use em :$
Forever ADS. Best role.
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catsrule
D3ATH CARD
RUST415
13
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 03:54:00 -
[693] - Quote
Kevall Longstride wrote:Francois Sanchez wrote:A few things worry me :
The gal RoF bonus seems too good, and keep in mind it will buff variants such as the breach and the tactical that don't need a buff. It will also buff shotguns. We've had assurances from Rattati that the bonus will apply to AR's only. We were obviously concerned about the Bons becoming a machine shotgun gun. Also bare in mind that AR's will now be eating up ammo like candy so the clips will drain much faster.
The bonus applies to gal assault not ars |
Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
832
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 10:53:00 -
[694] - Quote
catsrule wrote:Kevall Longstride wrote:Francois Sanchez wrote:A few things worry me :
The gal RoF bonus seems too good, and keep in mind it will buff variants such as the breach and the tactical that don't need a buff. It will also buff shotguns. We've had assurances from Rattati that the bonus will apply to AR's only. We were obviously concerned about the Bons becoming a machine shotgun gun. Also bare in mind that AR's will now be eating up ammo like candy so the clips will drain much faster. The bonus applies to gal assault not ars
Actually it only applies to Assault Rifles when used on a Gallente Assault, it doesn't affect any other weapon.
Purifier. First Class.
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YUUKI TERUMI
Carne Con Papas
135
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 11:52:00 -
[695] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:YUUKI TERUMI wrote:Francois Sanchez wrote:A few things worry me :
The gal RoF bonus seems too good, and keep in mind it will buff variants such as the breach and the tactical that don't need a buff. It will also buff shotguns.
Reducing turn radius of swarm is actually a buff, it allows you to shoot around corners. I can't count the number of times a vehicle tried to escape behind something and my swarms turned so quickly they hit the obstacle. With reduced turn radius they'll get around and hit the vehicule.
Range nerf to ACR... Why? It already performs poorly after 50m
Magsec buff is a bit too much, half the damage buff would seem more adapted
I like the rest I agree. Shotguns need to be buffed. Dunno if you play pcs. Last pcs i played were full of bons shotgun users and it was impossible to use a proto shotgun. It will be a lot easier now to kill those officer fags ;) its been said and confirmed MULTIPLE times in this thread that the new gal bonus ONLY applies to ARs
ew ty my bad
Gal assault rof buff \0/
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 12:57:00 -
[696] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Is it confirmed now that the SL maneuverability parameter that was tweaked from 90 to 70 [units] and is proposed to be tweaked to 50 in Foxfour is indeed "max rotation [-¦]"?
If so I'll crosscheck this with my simulations in the next few days. Shouldn't be too hard. I still find it a very weird design parameter.
[Edit]
Current SLs don't seem to adhere to this:
- Lock on to a static LAV.
- Launch missiles in the opposite direction.
- SL missiles will perform a full 180-¦ turn.
- Foxfour design sheet says current maximum rotation is 70-¦.
I won't be able to give any feedback until this is resolved.
I assume it's referring to a rotation speed, rather than a max total rotation. |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 13:00:00 -
[697] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Stefan Stahl wrote:Is it confirmed now that the SL maneuverability parameter that was tweaked from 90 to 70 [units] and is proposed to be tweaked to 50 in Foxfour is indeed "max rotation [-¦]"? I assume it's referring to a rotation speed, rather than a max total rotation. Let's hope so. |
Toobar Zoobar
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
167
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 15:03:00 -
[698] - Quote
@XxBlazikenxX
I challenge you to not 'like' this comment.
Specialization: Making typo's.
|
XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 15:09:00 -
[699] - Quote
Toobar Zoobar wrote:@XxBlazikenxX
I challenge you to not 'like' this comment.
/Proceeds to like comment
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
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Genral69 death
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
805
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 15:11:00 -
[700] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX your responsible for like half my likes . Not sure weather to be great full or to keep scrubbing. I feel so dirty
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
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Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 15:43:00 -
[701] - Quote
I hope you did some kind of script to like every comments automatically. If not, it must be pretty easy to do with any HTML parser. Python or PowerShell ones are really easy to use if you haven't coded one yet ;D
Bring your daughter... TO THE SLAUGHTER !
- Sequal Rise
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XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 15:44:00 -
[702] - Quote
Sequal's Back wrote:I hope you did some kind of script to like every comments automatically. If not, it must be pretty easy to do with any HTML parser. Python or PowerShell ones are really easy to use if you haven't coded one yet ;D
I like them all manually.
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
|
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 15:45:00 -
[703] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Sequal's Back wrote:I hope you did some kind of script to like every comments automatically. If not, it must be pretty easy to do with any HTML parser. Python or PowerShell ones are really easy to use if you haven't coded one yet ;D I like them all manually. I feel loved. |
Sequal's Back
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 15:45:00 -
[704] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Sequal's Back wrote:I hope you did some kind of script to like every comments automatically. If not, it must be pretty easy to do with any HTML parser. Python or PowerShell ones are really easy to use if you haven't coded one yet ;D I like them all manually.
Dirty boy.
Bring your daughter... TO THE SLAUGHTER !
- Sequal Rise
|
Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
972
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 17:45:00 -
[705] - Quote
Again, any eta for the hotfix Mr Rattati?
Wanna play eve?
|
Operative 1174 Uuali
True Companion Planetary Requisitions
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 18:51:00 -
[706] - Quote
Please, please, please make blasters actually hit something on an ADS! Also, I see no reason why swarms should hit my ADS when I come in for a tight loop and they've already fired at me. i.e. how tight a turn should swarms make? My trick flying should count for something to get in and on the back side of a swarmer.
CCP logic GÇô We fix what doesn't need breaking.
|
XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.06 19:05:00 -
[707] - Quote
Operative 1174 Uuali wrote:Please, please, please make blasters actually hit something on an ADS! Also, I see no reason why swarms should hit my ADS when I come in for a tight loop and they've already fired at me. i.e. how tight a turn should swarms make? My trick flying should count for something to get in and on the back side of a swarmer.
They increased the splash radius on small blasters so they should become semiuseable on an ADS
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
|
Alena Ventrallis
Commando Perkone
Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2015.10.07 05:26:00 -
[708] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Operative 1174 Uuali wrote:Please, please, please make blasters actually hit something on an ADS! Also, I see no reason why swarms should hit my ADS when I come in for a tight loop and they've already fired at me. i.e. how tight a turn should swarms make? My trick flying should count for something to get in and on the back side of a swarmer. They increased the splash radius on small blasters so they should become semiuseable on an ADS
The problem with blasters is the hit detection is garbage. I don't know if splash radius will fix that, but maybe it will.
Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
|
ID G4f
Capital Acquisitions LLC
52
|
Posted - 2015.10.07 06:39:00 -
[709] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Operative 1174 Uuali wrote:Please, please, please make blasters actually hit something on an ADS! Also, I see no reason why swarms should hit my ADS when I come in for a tight loop and they've already fired at me. i.e. how tight a turn should swarms make? My trick flying should count for something to get in and on the back side of a swarmer. They increased the splash radius on small blasters so they should become semiuseable on an ADS The problem with blasters is the hit detection is garbage. I don't know if splash radius will fix that, but maybe it will.
The blaster splash damage is my favorite thing about this hotfox
85mil sp and counting
ID's Escrow - trade safe
Bernie sanders for president! Finally a president of the people
|
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.07 08:58:00 -
[710] - Quote
I would've preferred a buff to initial dispersion. I don't like decreasing dispersion for blasters.
What's going to be the splash damage? It won't be helpful if each individual hit is below the shield regen threshold. That gives a lower bound of 11 damage to shields per shot (Caldari Scout shield threshold). At 20 shots a second that's at least 220 DPS for any shot that lands within 2 meters of the target. |
|
|
Juno Tristan
Obscure Reference
893
|
Posted - 2015.10.07 10:07:00 -
[711] - Quote
Can we not just give the small blaster turret the same mechanics as the Assault HMG? (but with a plasma profile)
ADS Ramming Revenge!
Plasma Cannon Rampage
|
XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.07 13:59:00 -
[712] - Quote
Alena Ventrallis wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Operative 1174 Uuali wrote:Please, please, please make blasters actually hit something on an ADS! Also, I see no reason why swarms should hit my ADS when I come in for a tight loop and they've already fired at me. i.e. how tight a turn should swarms make? My trick flying should count for something to get in and on the back side of a swarmer. They increased the splash radius on small blasters so they should become semiuseable on an ADS The problem with blasters is the hit detection is garbage. I don't know if splash radius will fix that, but maybe it will.
Hit detection with small rails is a lot worse than blasters.
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
|
xTheSiLLyRaBBiTx
Eternal Beings
RUST415
780
|
Posted - 2015.10.07 18:06:00 -
[713] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Operative 1174 Uuali wrote:Please, please, please make blasters actually hit something on an ADS! Also, I see no reason why swarms should hit my ADS when I come in for a tight loop and they've already fired at me. i.e. how tight a turn should swarms make? My trick flying should count for something to get in and on the back side of a swarmer. They increased the splash radius on small blasters so they should become semiuseable on an ADS The problem with blasters is the hit detection is garbage. I don't know if splash radius will fix that, but maybe it will. Hit detection with small rails is a lot worse than blasters.
Rail tech in general is pretty bad in the game right now with hit detection. Granted, it at least has a modicum of reliability when dealing with destroying opposing vehicles/installations specifically.
LOGi GOD // Master of Healers // Director of Eternal Beings // GF-FA-NF Alumni Directorate
|
XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.07 18:08:00 -
[714] - Quote
True
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
|
Cloak Dog
Horizons' Edge
544
|
Posted - 2015.10.07 23:13:00 -
[715] - Quote
Not that complaining about it will change your minds but.
Don't buff the locuses. I just know that my first battle with foxfour is going to have a grenade bombarded kill feed. Please just...dont. They are already messed up don't break them.
Significant splash damage for small blasters? Wouldn't that mean if I shot someone with an assault rifle it should do splash damage too? They are basically the same weapons, one just being heavy duty...so...I guess that needs no logic.
Scrambler Pistol buff is k. Gal Assault buff is k.
Magsec shouldn't be buffed like that. From my experience using it, It feels and works like a mini assault rifle. Buffing the damage and making it have almost no charge up time kinda stops it from being a sidearm...Its like a really nerfed breach ar. Now...
I would instead like a little less damage, a little more range, and a little bit faster firing speed.
Other than that I don't see why I cant just give up with all the other stuff. Just follow the path of the buffed and you'll be good.
I'm more bark then bite...sometimes...
BRUH
|
Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
555
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 00:23:00 -
[716] - Quote
For this hotfix to work I would suggest a few alterations.
Revert equipment carry numbers to pre buff amount to limit grenade spam and have some element of tactical planning when tossing a grenade. Also will help with impending officer mass driver spam.
Revert vehicle hardener delay back to one second. There is going to be next to zero reason for any vehicle to leave the Redline for the next 6 months, having hardeners activate before the vehicle instantly explodes may make playing a little more tolerable. Rushing out the next level of HAVS wouldn't hurt, something with innate resistances, but I won't hold my breath. While you are at it, give the Gladius and Marduk a sensible cpu/pg buff as whoever set the current levels must have been confused.
Reduce jump height modifier on myos by 75%, or have each jump with 3 myos cost 300 stamina. Super Mario Brothers is getting old fast and the explosion buff is going to remove any 'tactical shooter' element.
Increase large rail turret range by 100m, tanks will be pushed 200m back into the Redline to avoid being meleed, flay locked swarmed, militia grenaded, plasma canoned, nova knived, mass driven, forged, orbitaled and shot by other tanks... seeing as the only reason they were Nerfed was so that the CPM that only flew dropships could rack up 50+ kills without spending isk, maybe it is time to have a tank turret that can shoot further than a sniper rifle. 400-450m would give all the Redline tanks something to do instead of explode.
|
HOLY PERFECTION
LUNAR PR0PHECY
145
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 00:33:00 -
[717] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:For this hotfix to work I would suggest a few alterations.
Revert equipment carry numbers to pre buff amount to limit grenade spam and have some element of tactical planning when tossing a grenade. Also will help with impending officer mass driver spam.
Revert vehicle hardener delay back to one second. There is going to be next to zero reason for any vehicle to leave the Redline for the next 6 months, having hardeners activate before the vehicle instantly explodes may make playing a little more tolerable. Rushing out the next level of HAVS wouldn't hurt, something with innate resistances, but I won't hold my breath. While you are at it, give the Gladius and Marduk a sensible cpu/pg buff as whoever set the current levels must have been confused.
Reduce jump height modifier on myos by 75%, or have each jump with 3 myos cost 300 stamina. Super Mario Brothers is getting old fast and the explosion buff is going to remove any 'tactical shooter' element.
Increase large rail turret range by 100m, tanks will be pushed 200m back into the Redline to avoid being meleed, flay locked swarmed, militia grenaded, plasma canoned, nova knived, mass driven, forged, orbitaled and shot by other tanks... seeing as the only reason they were Nerfed was so that the CPM that only flew dropships could rack up 50+ kills without spending isk, maybe it is time to have a tank turret that can shoot further than a sniper rifle. 400-450m would give all the Redline tanks something to do instead of explode.
YOU HATE TANKS DONT YOU MY LITTLE SCRUBY
If I charge, follow me. If I retreat, kill me. If I die, revenge me.
I'm really hard headed
|
Doc DDD
TeamPlayers
Negative-Feedback
557
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 00:39:00 -
[718] - Quote
Amazing Feedback |
HOLY PERFECTION
LUNAR PR0PHECY
146
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 00:40:00 -
[719] - Quote
Doc DDD wrote:Amazing Feedback
TY 07
If I charge, follow me. If I retreat, kill me. If I die, revenge me.
I'm really hard headed
|
|
CCP Frame
C C P
C C P Alliance
7
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 06:26:00 -
[720] - Quote
This is scheduled to go live later today at 11:00 UTC.
CCP Frame, CCP Community Team
|
|
|
|
ZED Regent
RabbitGang
13 COILS
477
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 07:19:00 -
[721] - Quote
Looking forward to it when i'm back on...
Within 2 weeks...
...
port Dust 514
...
taking a break from Dust atm...
|
g li2
Grupo de Asalto Chacal
Rise Of Legion.
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 07:28:00 -
[722] - Quote
Where will the 3,000,000 that I have saved?
SOMOS LEYENDA
|
Jonny D Buelle
The Warlords Legion
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 07:41:00 -
[723] - Quote
CCP Frame wrote:This is scheduled to go live later today at 11:00 UTC.
Yay!
Director of T-W-L
Keeper of the List
Lord of Scrubs
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 07:48:00 -
[724] - Quote
g li2 wrote:Where will the 3.000.000 SP that I have saved?
Any advice?
Amarr Scout?
No seriously don't do that.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
|
Weznof Nalek
Providentia Aeternam
120
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 08:41:00 -
[725] - Quote
CCP Frame wrote:This is scheduled to go live later today at 11:00 UTC.
I don't understand that you make This hotfix whereas the prority problem is the lag and the low framerate.
You Can create ail the hotfix that you want, It is very difficult to find fun in This game actually.
Judge Magister Inquisitor
La vérité sur Olssam62
|
Leovarian L Lavitz
TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 08:47:00 -
[726] - Quote
g li2 wrote:Where will the 3.000.000 SP that I have saved?
Any advice?
Caldari or gallente assault
Youtube: Dust 514 - You should Have Worn Proto
Playstation move player
|
Leovarian L Lavitz
TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 08:49:00 -
[727] - Quote
Weznof Nalek wrote:CCP Frame wrote:This is scheduled to go live later today at 11:00 UTC. I don't understand that you make This hotfix whereas the prority problem is the lag and the low framerate. You Can create ail the hotfix that you want, It is very difficult to find fun in This game actually.
They are also working on the bugs, those fixes come out during patches.
Hot fixes are for balancing,
Patches are for big fixes and new features
Youtube: Dust 514 - You should Have Worn Proto
Playstation move player
|
g li2
Grupo de Asalto Chacal
Rise Of Legion.
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 09:30:00 -
[728] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:
Amarr Scout?
SOMOS LEYENDA
|
Sylwester Dziewiecki
507
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 10:09:00 -
[729] - Quote
Leovarian L Lavitz wrote:Weznof Nalek wrote:CCP Frame wrote:This is scheduled to go live later today at 11:00 UTC. I don't understand that you make This hotfix whereas the prority problem is the lag and the low framerate. You Can create ail the hotfix that you want, It is very difficult to find fun in This game actually. They are also working on the bugs, those fixes come out during patches. Hot fixes are for balancing, Patches are for bug fixes and new features
You are partially right - they are working on bugs, but not on a scale worthy of attention, or even mention it(I'm close beta vet, I'm know what am I talking about here).
In perfect world when CCP will not be tied to SONY "hot fixes" will fix matter that immediately need it - bugs.
G Speed Scout. MM Logi/Assault.
EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
|
trollface dot jpg
The Bacon Corporation
255
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 10:35:00 -
[730] - Quote
HOLY PERFECTION wrote:Doc DDD wrote:For this hotfix to work I would suggest a few alterations.
Revert equipment carry numbers to pre buff amount to limit grenade spam and have some element of tactical planning when tossing a grenade. Also will help with impending officer mass driver spam.
Revert vehicle hardener delay back to one second. There is going to be next to zero reason for any vehicle to leave the Redline for the next 6 months, having hardeners activate before the vehicle instantly explodes may make playing a little more tolerable. Rushing out the next level of HAVS wouldn't hurt, something with innate resistances, but I won't hold my breath. While you are at it, give the Gladius and Marduk a sensible cpu/pg buff as whoever set the current levels must have been confused.
Reduce jump height modifier on myos by 75%, or have each jump with 3 myos cost 300 stamina. Super Mario Brothers is getting old fast and the explosion buff is going to remove any 'tactical shooter' element.
Increase large rail turret range by 100m, tanks will be pushed 200m back into the Redline to avoid being meleed, flay locked swarmed, militia grenaded, plasma canoned, nova knived, mass driven, forged, orbitaled and shot by other tanks... seeing as the only reason they were Nerfed was so that the CPM that only flew dropships could rack up 50+ kills without spending isk, maybe it is time to have a tank turret that can shoot further than a sniper rifle. 400-450m would give all the Redline tanks something to do instead of explode.
YOU HATE TANKS DONT YOU MY LITTLE SCRUBY
Try harder scrubaliscous, your trolls are lacking and your opinions are justifiably ignored. Have fun hiding in your little metal can, the next AV buff that is forthcoming once the OPness of tanks this patch is exposed shall produce tears of infinite deliscousness and I will be there with a full supply of canteens to catch every last drop you produce.
RIP MAG, you will be missed.
MAG Vet ~ Raven
|
|
|
Yoda Boss
Dem Durrty Boyz
306
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 10:57:00 -
[731] - Quote
It's about to go down
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒGû¬.°n+í¤GÿåGùÅ.° GÖñGÖíTrade/saleGÖºGÖñ
|
jane stalin
free dropships for newbs
463
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 11:13:00 -
[732] - Quote
I don't know why I am excited
I really , really suck with the gal assault
I don't think the rate of fire increase will be enough
And rail rifle kick is not that bad, I would prefer the rapid reload. |
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 11:30:00 -
[733] - Quote
If anyone was interested in performing some testing of the dropship-swarm interaction I'd be very open to messages to my pilot alt "Jak Teston". I will likely be online for from 12 UTC to 14 UTC, maybe also later. |
F54423
Lacuna.
67
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 11:33:00 -
[734] - Quote
Gallente ROF bonus! So much yay! \o/
"They call us GÇ£Kilm'ach.GÇ¥ The Lost. We are the demons of their Scriptures. The Beast made real..."
|
Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
7
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 11:56:00 -
[735] - Quote
jane stalin wrote:I don't know why I am excited
I really , really suck with the gal assault
I don't think the rate of fire increase will be enough
And rail rifle kick is not that bad, I would prefer the rapid reload.
I'm pretty sure it kept the rapid reload and got the kick reduction bonus.
"Remember to Ratatat that ass" ~ The Internet
|
Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
827
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 11:57:00 -
[736] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:jane stalin wrote:I don't know why I am excited
I really , really suck with the gal assault
I don't think the rate of fire increase will be enough
And rail rifle kick is not that bad, I would prefer the rapid reload. I'm pretty sure it kept the rapid reload and got the kick reduction bonus.
Yup
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
|
Regnier Feros
Dead Man's Game
853
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 13:03:00 -
[737] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:g li2 wrote:Where will the 3.000.000 SP that I have saved?
Any advice? Amarr Scout? No seriously don't do that.
>_<
I LIKE PIE
|
zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
818
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 14:02:00 -
[738] - Quote
So is it dropping Thursday or Friday in the U.S.?
I win
|
Regnier Feros
Dead Man's Game
853
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 14:10:00 -
[739] - Quote
zzZaXxx wrote:So is it dropping Thursday or Friday in the U.S.?
Today, Thursday
I LIKE PIE
|
zzZaXxx
XxAMBUSH FTWxX
818
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 14:23:00 -
[740] - Quote
My Cal Ass is gonna beast! What are y'all lookin forward to?
I win
|
|
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Regnier Feros
Dead Man's Game
858
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 15:19:00 -
[741] - Quote
zzZaXxx wrote:My Cal Ass is gonna beast! What are y'all lookin forward to?
Non Amarr related QQ
I LIKE PIE
|
Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
478
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 15:22:00 -
[742] - Quote
Regnier Feros wrote:zzZaXxx wrote:My Cal Ass is gonna beast! What are y'all lookin forward to? Non Amarr related QQ
I'll just say it for you
Future Patches that may bring about an AV Amarr Weapon...that would certainly be a Laser
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
|
Ateroith
KILL-EM-QUICK
Rise Of Legion.
209
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 15:24:00 -
[743] - Quote
So still no 'Quafe' or 'Dren' to be tradeable?
"...Rule #2 - Never start a fight. Rule #3 - Never lose one either." - Lee Child
|
XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 15:24:00 -
[744] - Quote
Ateroith wrote:So still no 'Quafe' or 'Dren' to be tradeable?
Do you mean weapons or skins/suits?
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
|
Ateroith
KILL-EM-QUICK
Rise Of Legion.
209
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 15:26:00 -
[745] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Ateroith wrote:So still no 'Quafe' or 'Dren' to be tradeable? Do you mean weapons or skins/suits?
Explain in detail. Which new BPOs are tradeable now?
"...Rule #2 - Never start a fight. Rule #3 - Never lose one either." - Lee Child
|
XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 15:27:00 -
[746] - Quote
Ateroith wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Ateroith wrote:So still no 'Quafe' or 'Dren' to be tradeable? Do you mean weapons or skins/suits? Explain in detail. Which new BPOs are tradeable now?
I haven't checked but I believe it is all skins and all standard suits. But not weapons.
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
|
Ateroith
KILL-EM-QUICK
Rise Of Legion.
209
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 15:29:00 -
[747] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Ateroith wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Ateroith wrote:So still no 'Quafe' or 'Dren' to be tradeable? Do you mean weapons or skins/suits? Explain in detail. Which new BPOs are tradeable now? I haven't checked but I believe it is all skins and all standard suits. But not weapons.
Cool, but still kind of a disappointment. I'll be waiting though, CCP.
"...Rule #2 - Never start a fight. Rule #3 - Never lose one either." - Lee Child
|
Gydian Dubois
Horizons' Edge
539
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 15:34:00 -
[748] - Quote
As far as I know the Dren, etc dropsuits were standard BPO, yet are not tradeable. Yet, link to all HF FF says "all standard BPO tradeable".... um?
Vacka De Fallna - - Awaken The Fallen
|
DARK NEILTON
Thung.life
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 16:01:00 -
[749] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Francois Sanchez wrote:A few things worry me :
The gal RoF bonus seems too good, and keep in mind it will buff variants such as the breach and the tactical that don't need a buff. It will also buff shotguns.
Reducing turn radius of swarm is actually a buff, it allows you to shoot around corners. I can't count the number of times a vehicle tried to escape behind something and my swarms turned so quickly they hit the obstacle. With reduced turn radius they'll get around and hit the vehicule.
Range nerf to ACR... Why? It already performs poorly after 50m
Magsec buff is a bit too much, half the damage buff would seem more adapted
I like the rest breach, burst and tactical all perform worse than the rest. The whole Gallente Rifle family needs a buff.
I want to create an alliance know who to contact
|
NextDark Knight
Hellstorm LLC
890
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 16:39:00 -
[750] - Quote
Congrates on the patch.. Might run triple boosters tonight and give it a trial by fire.
Doesn't look like my sentinel got much love but them medium frames.. time to get back into it again.
Caldari Suit Videos Love Caldari - Since 6/29/2012
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|
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XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 17:09:00 -
[751] - Quote
NextDark Knight wrote:Congrates on the patch.. Might run triple boosters tonight and give it a trial by fire.
Doesn't look like my sentinel got much love but them medium frames.. time to get back into it again.
Caldari Sentinel?
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
|
Mortishai Belmont
G.L.O.R.Y
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 19:13:00 -
[752] - Quote
Did you guys actually change anything? Because descriptions of the suits and bonuses you said that you were going to change remain the same. So, did you actually change things or just not get around to changing descriptions yet?
The C.E.O. of G.L.O.R.Y,
(~..)~ Now on Youtube ~(..~)
|
Reallusion GrimSleeper
Need Permission to Die LLC
143
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 19:49:00 -
[753] - Quote
I never read the changes I just have fun knowing that everytime a hotfix comes at least one of my suits will be RED and no longer work....
wish they make vehicle BPOs tradeable. zzzz
UPDATE:
My Commando suit no longer works.... I now have to take off my armor repairer and replace it with some cheap crap. Thanks again !!!!!
click here for a FREE Staff Recruit Assault Rifle BPO + BOOSTER
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Bremen van Equis
Incorruptibles
749
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 19:50:00 -
[754] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:Did you guys actually change anything? Because descriptions of the suits and bonuses you said that you were going to change remain the same. So, did you actually change things or just not get around to changing descriptions yet?
They made note that descriptions of these bonuses would not be updated at launch.
The Gal Assault ROF bonus is definitely working :)
Buckle up, boysGǪthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
|
XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 19:55:00 -
[755] - Quote
Mortishai Belmont wrote:Did you guys actually change anything? Because descriptions of the suits and bonuses you said that you were going to change remain the same. So, did you actually change things or just not get around to changing descriptions yet?
On the spreadsheet it says that the bonuses would look the same when Foxfour initially launches.
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
|
Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 20:08:00 -
[756] - Quote
The swarm missile tracking changes seem to have gone through. Missiles do appear to have more trouble tracking vehicles under certain conditions. Though I didn't manage to produce a miss on LAVs or DS during my few hours of testing today. At least this shows that missile tracking doesn't break badly when this parameter is toned down.
Might I suggest dialing swarm rotation speed further down to 40 (-¦/s, if that is the correct unit) at the next convenience?
Other than that, congratulations on a well done hotfix. I didn't notice any technical issues.
P.S.: I am sorry to report that flying a 150k ISK NDS with 28 mil SP to back it up (*perfect* fitting skills) seems to have less of a positive effect on the result of a match than using a MLT SL and a MLT Magsec on a 8k ISK STD Basic suit. |
Liara Kaiba
Ostrakon Agency
Gallente Federation
22
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 20:12:00 -
[757] - Quote
MLT Caldari Medium frames have kept their pitiful 15HP/s shield regen. Wanted to try those shield buff but as Gallantean, that's the only suit level I have access nowGǪ Disappointing. |
XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 20:16:00 -
[758] - Quote
Liara Kaiba wrote:MLT Caldari Medium frames have kept their pitiful 15HP/s shield regen. Wanted to try those shield buff but as Gallantean, that's the only suit level I have access nowGǪ Disappointing.
join in my corp?
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
|
Yoda Boss
Dem Durrty Boyz
308
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 20:18:00 -
[759] - Quote
Wow. That ROF bonus on the gal assault is awesome. It sounds so good. But you gotta have nanohives
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒGû¬.°n+í¤GÿåGùÅ.° GÖñGÖíTrade/saleGÖºGÖñ
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
280
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 20:52:00 -
[760] - Quote
The Gallente ROF bonus is OP as ****, but if it mean's seeing less of my weapon's being used on the incorrect suit, fine....
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Dez Steelheart
G0DS AM0NG MEN
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 22:32:00 -
[761] - Quote
Cmon really Assault scramblers can might be more heat and less damage, but for Christ's sake they have ROF buff witch makes them still overpowered.
I know the Assault Rifle was the underdog but now they are way too good.
The scrambler Rifle might as well be scrap metal due to the fact of not being able to even move normally when charged, I don't mind it its just too much,not to mention the god awful amount of heat build up.
Thank you for trying to bring back Gunnlogis to the fight but Madrugars are still too overpowered. |
Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
280
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 22:44:00 -
[762] - Quote
Dez Steelheart wrote:Cmon really Assault scramblers can might be more heat and less damage, but for Christ's sake they have ROF buff witch makes them still overpowered.
I know the Assault Rifle was the underdog but now they are way too good.
The scrambler Rifle might as well be scrap metal due to the fact of not being able to even move normally when charged, I don't mind it its just too much,not to mention the god awful amount of heat build up.
Thank you for trying to bring back Gunnlogis to the fight but Madrugars are still too overpowered.
The bonus need's to be cut down to a 10%, so its 880, not 920..... Ascr is now technically balanced because the other weapon's can perform upto/on par with it.
SCR, seeing less of it, I'm fine with that, mean's the people using it before the nerf, are FOTM scrubs and not dedicated to the race itself.
Tank's.... Calmando swarm's, Good Game.....
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
|
KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 22:47:00 -
[763] - Quote
Rhist Stormshield wrote:Perhaps we'll see more racial weapons on the proper suits then.
Tired of seeing the Rail rifle on Gallente assaults.
Tired?
You are tired now as there is VARIATION.
If suits and weapons are tied together by considerable bonuses,
THEN you can complain being tired by seeing the same wep over and over again on same suit.
KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
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Cloak Dog
Horizons' Edge
554
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 23:18:00 -
[764] - Quote
This hotfix...is so bad.
I've had to result to sniping. EVERY SINGLE GAME.
Yeah I suck but this is just ridiculous...
I'm more bark then bite...sometimes...
BRUH
|
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 23:33:00 -
[765] - Quote
Cloak Dog wrote:This hotfix...is so bad.
I've had to result to sniping. EVERY SINGLE GAME.
Yeah I suck but this is just ridiculous...
Why don't you have an Assault suit, brah?
Dropsuit Usage Rates
|
Cloak Dog
Horizons' Edge
554
|
Posted - 2015.10.08 23:47:00 -
[766] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Cloak Dog wrote:This hotfix...is so bad.
I've had to result to sniping. EVERY SINGLE GAME.
Yeah I suck but this is just ridiculous... Why don't you have an Assault suit, brah?
I have assault suits. If you mean apex than hmm. Don't have enough isk ever.
I'm more bark then bite...sometimes...
BRUH
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 00:05:00 -
[767] - Quote
Cloak Dog wrote:This hotfix...is so bad.
I've had to result to sniping. EVERY SINGLE GAME.
Yeah I suck but this is just ridiculous...
What are you using?
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 00:06:00 -
[768] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:NextDark Knight wrote:Congrates on the patch.. Might run triple boosters tonight and give it a trial by fire.
Doesn't look like my sentinel got much love but them medium frames.. time to get back into it again. Caldari Sentinel?
Calsent wasn't buffed at all. Nor was it nerfed.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Cloak Dog
Horizons' Edge
555
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 00:19:00 -
[769] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Cloak Dog wrote:This hotfix...is so bad.
I've had to result to sniping. EVERY SINGLE GAME.
Yeah I suck but this is just ridiculous... What are you using?
I've been using Gal assault before it was cool. :P
I'm more bark then bite...sometimes...
BRUH
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 00:24:00 -
[770] - Quote
Cloak Dog wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Cloak Dog wrote:This hotfix...is so bad.
I've had to result to sniping. EVERY SINGLE GAME.
Yeah I suck but this is just ridiculous... What are you using? I've been using Gal assault before it was cool. :P
... HOW???????
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Cloak Dog
Horizons' Edge
555
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 00:38:00 -
[771] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Cloak Dog wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Cloak Dog wrote:This hotfix...is so bad.
I've had to result to sniping. EVERY SINGLE GAME.
Yeah I suck but this is just ridiculous... What are you using? I've been using Gal assault before it was cool. :P ... HOW???????
Skill my friend. Skill, and a very bad K/D.
I'm more bark then bite...sometimes...
BRUH
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Mitchell Tesla
Minmatar SuperMilitary
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 02:22:00 -
[772] - Quote
This is going to be a big change in the game, obviously. But, I am curious to see how this will effect my gameplay in matches. However, I am looking forward to this update or hotfix. One question, when is this hotfix coming?
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Cloak Dog
Horizons' Edge
555
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 02:23:00 -
[773] - Quote
Mitchell Tesla wrote:This is going to be a big change in the game, obviously. But, I am curious to see how this will effect my gameplay in matches. However, I am looking forward to this update or hotfix. One question, when is this hotfix coming?
Dude its already here. It sucks.
I'm more bark then bite...sometimes...
BRUH
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XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 02:58:00 -
[774] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:NextDark Knight wrote:Congrates on the patch.. Might run triple boosters tonight and give it a trial by fire.
Doesn't look like my sentinel got much love but them medium frames.. time to get back into it again. Caldari Sentinel? Calsent wasn't buffed at all. Nor was it nerfed.
That's why I'm asking...
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
|
maybe deadcatz
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
Smart Deploy
983
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 02:58:00 -
[775] - Quote
Welp. The gallente ROF has brought on a wave of tryhards with breach assault rifles. The plain assault rifle is still overlooked in favor of the scrubby ishukone assault rail rifle on assault go.0s Caldari assault are also enjoying their new sheild stats,but still stacking 400 armour and damage mods. I'm also skilling into assault drop ships to deal with rooftop campers.
Also myofibs on my new fit 'potato' gives me 300melee damage running at 9.0m/s repping at more than 12 armour per second. Spray with the rifle after smashing them in the face with 300damage.
Ha! You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
16
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 02:59:00 -
[776] - Quote
Cloak Dog wrote:
Dude its already here. It sucks.
Disagreed. Some bad, but more good than bad.
Edit: Everything I've tested so far appears to have been implemented as proposed. Props, QA.
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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ROMULUS H3X
research lab
782
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 04:37:00 -
[777] - Quote
Just want to say, good job CCP. Like seriously.. very nice hotfix :D
With these new and improved Cardios I don't ever stop moving :D
<3
FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS
PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH
ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
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jace silencerww
MANUFACTURERS OF DEATH
194
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 06:53:00 -
[778] - Quote
LOL great job with the grenades. well the Thukker still stinks though- the splash being bigger and 600 damage is a good thing but the CPU/PG cost is way too much. the core is still better 48 cpu 6 pg 2 carring vs thukker 72 cpu 12 pg 1 carring. WHY? that is too much of a cost to use. even with the right skills it cost 40+ cpu 9pg
what to skill into next?
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Petrified Ancient Tree
The Iberian Norsemen
57
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 06:56:00 -
[779] - Quote
Its nice to be a Caldari and not be vaporized by Scramblers should i peek around a corner.
I shot down 5 dropships with my Minmatar Commando's Dren swarm launcher over the course of two matches. Perhaps it is an issue with piloting - a lot of pilots are certainly going to have to adjust how they fly now - but are you sure that explosive damage is being mitigated against if hardeners are on?
Nothing cures bad aim like a mass driver...
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Paulus Phen502
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
71
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 07:17:00 -
[780] - Quote
Not bad, but it still doesn't matter when you unbalance the game with officer weapons and gear. Minm Assault with bons has been OP since warlords came out and it still ain't fixed. Agimus ain't much better. I have friends who wouldn't play heavy in PC anymore for months and PC has when back to the old fit of the month days and pubs are now officer stomped with corps that can hoard. Never have I seen so many qsyncs either, sadly players don't like challenges much anymore, running solo has never been less fun. I actually been logging on and playing Ambush(stinking ambush!) to get a little SP each day(logi FTW/my k/d don't care no more). We've been lab rats since the "Rougewedding" and CCPs sells stupid skins to try a appease the tryhards and make a few bucks. DUST ain't a fashion show, Balance your broke game and treat your players with respect!
I've logged in for over 700 days in a row and I use to play 10 hours a day+ and I want to know where this game is going and if DUST will ever go back to not being a twitch shooter again. Because that's what your run around the corner blap you dead strafey shotty stuff has done, turned a great game into a COD, Battlefront clone! My skill allocation and fitting philosophy doesn't matter anymore, only do I know enough people who will sell me officer for cheap because I'm afraid or too lazy to try and out think and out play someone. And I gotta reward my buddies for helping me out by using them to help pad my stats all the time with the same gutless afraid to hack a point cause I might lose a suit that I had to pay so much for garbage. If people ain't gonna try and go for the win so they can post some huge stat on the weekly leaderboards then people should call em carebears but a better word might be cowards.
Iv'e played a lot of games in my time, but DUST was special, but how can it remain so when we can see the problems and yet refuse to admit it. There's too much good here to let the game keep going in the wrong direction. Agree or disagree this is just one mercs opinion. #CCPfixthisgame.
"There's no stoppin' what can't be stopped, no killin' what can't be killed," King Willie Predator II.
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Minty Essence
DUST University
Ivy League
10
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 09:15:00 -
[781] - Quote
Scrambler Rifle has become almost unusable! Against armour medium suits (the majority of suits) I struggle to even kill basic suits with a prototype weapon + 3 damage mods before the gun overheats. It now seems that the rifle is a support weapon only, designed to strip the shields and let someone with a better weapon finish off the enemy (at least against armour tankers). :(
Also, grenade spam is getting ridiculous! Pretty sure a buff for them was in the wrong direction... |
Jack McReady
DUST University
Ivy League
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 11:14:00 -
[782] - Quote
just came back from a big break to check what is going on.
and what do I see, my TAR gets 840 base DPS on Gal Assault ?!
lets by a turbo controller... err I mean tear extractor! |
Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
830
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 13:04:00 -
[783] - Quote
Kincat cost adjusted? Didn't seem like it.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
|
Colder Rain
Horizons' Edge
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 13:15:00 -
[784] - Quote
Has anyone else noticed a considerable nerf on the ACR or am I the only one that uses them?? I get the range was nerfed and I don't understand why but I can deal with it. However, I don't know if its do to the shield buffs or the range nerf but my Six Kin was bouncing off of cherries.... |
XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 13:22:00 -
[785] - Quote
Devadander wrote:Kincat cost adjusted? Didn't seem like it.
The PG cost was reduced considerably.
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
|
argel999
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
32
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 13:24:00 -
[786] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Devadander wrote:Kincat cost adjusted? Didn't seem like it. The PG cost was reduced considerably.
Blazi is right, Cardiac Regulator seems to work nicely, also myos got a fine PG increase, fine for me.
...SLAYER...
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Paulus Phen502
Amarr Templars
Amarr Empire
78
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 13:28:00 -
[787] - Quote
Yeah wasn't the laser rifle suppose to be the support weapon for taking out shields? Does the changes to the SCR maen the Amarr commando is just not worth having along with the gal com and maybe even the minm com(though jumpy commando I guess is a viable role)?
"There's no stoppin' what can't be stopped, no killin' what can't be killed," King Willie Predator II.
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Cloak Dog
Horizons' Edge
563
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 13:31:00 -
[788] - Quote
I'm probably only going to be logging in for the daily bonus now. This game isn't worth playing anymore in my opinion. When CCP fixes it, or people chill out with the nades and stuff, I'll come back.
07 bruhs, I'm go play minecraft or something.
I'm more bark then bite...sometimes...
BRUH
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XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 13:39:00 -
[789] - Quote
Paulus Phen502 wrote:Yeah wasn't the laser rifle suppose to be the support weapon for taking out shields? Does the changes to the SCR maen the Amarr commando is just not worth having along with the gal com and maybe even the minm com(though jumpy commando I guess is a viable role)?
That is a problem. The only viable weapons on the Amarr Commando is now the laser rifle and the ascr.
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
|
Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
833
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 13:50:00 -
[790] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Paulus Phen502 wrote:Yeah wasn't the laser rifle suppose to be the support weapon for taking out shields? Does the changes to the SCR maen the Amarr commando is just not worth having along with the gal com and maybe even the minm com(though jumpy commando I guess is a viable role)? That is a problem. The only viable weapons on the Amarr Commando is now the laser rifle and the ascr.
I duplicated my las-mando and put two scr on it. Charge shot, swap, charge shot, swap. I was not disappointed.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Immortal 3mpire
ImmortalEmpire
0
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 14:29:00 -
[791] - Quote
Maybe swarms should explode when they are with in range to drop ships. |
Gaius Calinus
Incarnation Soldiers
34
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 15:11:00 -
[792] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Francois Sanchez wrote:A few things worry me :
The gal RoF bonus seems too good, and keep in mind it will buff variants such as the breach and the tactical that don't need a buff. It will also buff shotguns.
Reducing turn radius of swarm is actually a buff, it allows you to shoot around corners. I can't count the number of times a vehicle tried to escape behind something and my swarms turned so quickly they hit the obstacle. With reduced turn radius they'll get around and hit the vehicule.
Range nerf to ACR... Why? It already performs poorly after 50m
Magsec buff is a bit too much, half the damage buff would seem more adapted
I like the rest breach, burst and tactical all perform worse than the rest. The whole Gallente Rifle family needs a buff.
Right!!!!!
Is there anything in this game beginning or ending with the word Gallente, that doesn't need a buff at all?
Don't say now "yes, the HAV"...
Hail Caldari !!
Hail to the Caldari State !!!
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Nirwanda Vaughns
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 15:13:00 -
[793] - Quote
When are the Recruit C-I and C-II shields gonna get fixed? they've been looked over the past 2 buffs to assault suits - the increase shield and armour hp and missed out on the recent recharge buff too.
I know the BPOs are in small numbers but if suits are gonna be changed then least do a proper job of it. All the other BPO variants got the changes whereas the recruit stuff seems to just be forgotten and abandoned
Please fix my C-II hitpoints!! Jesus and I love you :)
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Nirwanda Vaughns
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 15:19:00 -
[794] - Quote
Immortal 3mpire wrote:Maybe swarms should explode when they are with in range to drop ships.
i'd liek some kinda ground clearance for swarms so instead of ploughing into the floor or buildings the swarms go around them. it'd stop the scourge of HAVs peeking over hillsides.
atm swarms target centre of mass so keep middle of the HAV lower than peak of a hill and swarms just go into thte floor. before with the 90 degreee turn angle they'd fly over the top of the HAV and come straight down. if they had a 1-2m clearance they'd still hit HAVs.
it wouldn't really help them out that much chasing vehicles either as the missiles would still have to go around objects instead of just crashing into them.
Also swarms a re pretty pointless now, hopefully the Assault swarms get changed to ariel specific soon with a longer lock range and lower dps because atm vehicles are just popping swarm guys cos we have to get so damn close now. 175m was a nice balance. 150m is too close
Please fix my C-II hitpoints!! Jesus and I love you :)
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Genral69 death
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
810
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 15:32:00 -
[795] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Devadander wrote:Kincat cost adjusted? Didn't seem like it. The PG cost was reduced considerably.
I believe the pg cost went down 2 but somehow it manages to make my suit 2 pg over and no I didn't have myrofibs on there. Also I thought shield extenders where getting smaller cpu/pg , I could of miss read somewhere but I'm sure that was supposes to happen
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
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chill penguin
Red and Silver Hand
635
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 19:59:00 -
[796] - Quote
Zaria Min Deir wrote:Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:Are you not entertained?
*grabs popcorn*
*eats popcorn*
VAHZZ.'s alt, because like Badger, i ain't scuuurred.
#freecubs
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Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
852
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 20:17:00 -
[797] - Quote
Genral69 death wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Devadander wrote:Kincat cost adjusted? Didn't seem like it. The PG cost was reduced considerably. I believe the pg cost went down 2 but somehow it manages to make my suit 2 pg over and no I didn't have myrofibs on there. Also I thought shield extenders where getting smaller cpu/pg , I could of miss read somewhere but I'm sure that was supposes to happen
Regulators got a cost reduction, not Extenders.
Purifier. First Class.
|
Immortal 3mpire
ImmortalEmpire
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 20:20:00 -
[798] - Quote
To make the game balanced there should be a few things done. (mostly to vehicles)
Dropships need damage buff due to HMG doing full damage.
they already do crazy damage to drop-ships. (up to 8000 per clip!!!)
or
tank hardeners need to be toned down.
and
torrents (installations)
need to do less damage or no auto aim to vehicles in the area when you are not even shooting them. |
Genral69 death
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
811
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 20:22:00 -
[799] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:Genral69 death wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Devadander wrote:Kincat cost adjusted? Didn't seem like it. The PG cost was reduced considerably. I believe the pg cost went down 2 but somehow it manages to make my suit 2 pg over and no I didn't have myrofibs on there. Also I thought shield extenders where getting smaller cpu/pg , I could of miss read somewhere but I'm sure that was supposes to happen Regulators got a cost reduction, not Extenders.
So what got a cpu/pg buff, as my suit is now invalid
https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=213777&find=unread
|
Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
852
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 20:23:00 -
[800] - Quote
Immortal 3mpire wrote:To make the game balanced there should be a few things done. (mostly to vehicles)
Dropships need damage buff due to HMG doing full damage.
they already do crazy damage to drop-ships. (up to 8000 per clip!!!)
or
tank hardeners need to be toned down.
and
torrents (installations)
need to do less damage or no auto aim to vehicles in the area when you are not even shooting them.
Only the Assault HMG does full damage to vehicles.
Purifier. First Class.
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
283
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 20:25:00 -
[801] - Quote
Immortal 3mpire wrote:To make the game balanced there should be a few things done. (mostly to vehicles)
Dropships need damage buff due to HMG doing full damage.
they already do crazy damage to drop-ships.
or
tank hardeners need to be toned down.
and
torrents (installations)
need to do less damage or no auto aim to vehicles in the area when you are not even shooting them.
Drop-ships can be extremely powerful in the right hand's, especially if there's no AV to take them out. So HMG's are fine.
Tanks hardeners, not a tanker, but is still whatever, though honestly I think the hardeners last too long anyway and timer need's to be changed for how long their active.
*Turret's on the other hand are fine and if you make them unable to auto track vehicles their only liable for a buff when directly controlled by a player, if they do less damage then their going to be worthless to even hack, in which case, you may as well destroy it anyway for the extra war point's.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
|
Victor889
warravens
Imperium Eden
315
|
Posted - 2015.10.09 21:57:00 -
[802] - Quote
OOH
"Breach mass drivers will be a potent anti-vehicle weapon in the hands of the minmatar commando"
Suit up! |
Roger Cordill
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
444
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 00:03:00 -
[803] - Quote
Question: Did Ratatti buff small turrets to do full damage vs. HAV's? |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 00:36:00 -
[804] - Quote
Immortal 3mpire wrote:
Dropships need damage buff due to HMG doing full damage.
they already do crazy damage to drop-ships. (up to 8000 per clip!!!)
I'm guessing you aren't aware that the AHMG is only good to 40 meters and can't break shield regen.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
|
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 11:52:00 -
[805] - Quote
Roger Cordill wrote:Question: Did Ratatti buff small turrets to do full damage vs. HAV's?
Blasters? Nope.
Railguns and Missiles already did (or at least close to full anyway.)
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
1
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Posted - 2015.10.10 12:43:00 -
[806] - Quote
Today I successfully managed to dodge Swarms with a Python. It took me a few attempts, but here's what I did:
- Linger at ~100 meters range towards enemies and pelt them with rockets until sufficient attention is attracted and a swarmer fires a volley at you.
- Flick on afterburner and go to 150 meter range quickly. There should now be two swarms in the air, third one should not lock on.
- Tank the first swarm while setting up maximum angular speed towards incoming second volley (what I did was "fly a circle around the approaching missiles" - this ends up looking like a spiral, because I don't know any better maneuvers).
- Hopefully ... dodge the first approach of the second volley.
- If enough distance is achieved in the meantime the swarms won't manage to come back around for a second hit. [See my swarm missile speed and lifetime changes to rectify this.]
- You're ready to attack with minimal damage taken. But you used up an afterburner.
As predicted, this isn't much more useful than just afterburning into the distance, but that is exactly what we were aiming for. The concept seems sound and we can now include missile turn rate as one of the parameters that can be tweaked in order to achieve ADS and SL balance.
By the way, DS are still very far away from being able to dodge missiles. Those still rely on raw ehp, but the range nerf made things much easier. With a missile gunner I can now hover at ~125 m range and dip out of lock on range when things get too tough. I feel that this does significantly decrease the utility of SLs though.
More analysis to come in my SL feedback thread after further testing. |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 16:04:00 -
[807] - Quote
@Stefan: I also think the turning changes are a step in the right direction, they let you artificially increase the distance Swarms have to travel, which helps you actually leave the fight.
I do think Swarms need the variants looked at: having the base SL function like a 'Breach' with high damage but longish lock-on times (for HAV work) and the Assault having lower damage (probably a little lower than the current SL) but with longer lock range, faster lock-on and more shots in the clip.
That would go a long way towards solving SL balance by making them actually balance-capable, instead of OP vs one and UP vs the other.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Cloak Dog
Horizons' Edge
573
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 16:12:00 -
[808] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:@Stefan: I also think the turning changes are a step in the right direction, they let you artificially increase the distance Swarms have to travel, which helps you actually leave the fight.
I do think Swarms need the variants looked at: having the base SL function like a 'Breach' with high damage but longish lock-on times (for HAV work) and the Assault having lower damage (probably a little lower than the current SL) but with longer lock range, faster lock-on and more shots in the clip.
That would go a long way towards solving SL balance by making them actually balance-capable, instead of OP vs one and UP vs the other.
FINALLY someone says it in a way everyone can understand! Oh my god. If I were to have done it it would have looked like a rant! I'd give you a +3 if I could.
I'm more bark then bite...sometimes...
BRUH
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
1
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Posted - 2015.10.10 16:39:00 -
[809] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:@Stefan: I also think the turning changes are a step in the right direction, they let you artificially increase the distance Swarms have to travel, which helps you actually leave the fight.
I do think Swarms need the variants looked at: having the base SL function like a 'Breach' with high damage but longish lock-on times (for HAV work) and the Assault having lower damage (probably a little lower than the current SL) but with longer lock range, faster lock-on and more shots in the clip.
That would go a long way towards solving SL balance by making them actually balance-capable, instead of OP vs one and UP vs the other. I'm receptive to the idea of separating SLs into long and short range versions. However I advise against separating them too far for several reasons. Most importantly, once we get into a territory where the two variants are separated into "anti-DS SL" and "anti-HAV SL" the utility of each individual SL will be greatly reduced.
It's a good idea to have one SL that does long range supressive damage to both DS and HAV and a short range SL that can kill HAVs and forces DS to immediately flee out of range. But the long range SL needs to be able to deter an HAV that is rolling up to your face and the short range SL needs to be able to keep a DS away. Otherwise people won't use either of them unless they perform so well at their respective jobs that it'll be an unfair fight for the HAV or DS pilots. |
Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 17:43:00 -
[810] - Quote
True, it'll be an additional balancing act, but it's probably worth it over the constant back and forth balance we have at the moment.
Unless CCP is actually willing to reinvent the mechanics entirely, which I honestly believe would do a whole lot more than just tweaking numbers.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 17:56:00 -
[811] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Unless CCP is actually willing to reinvent the mechanics entirely, which I honestly believe would do a whole lot more than just tweaking numbers. The game's mechanics seem to have been designed in a very flexible way. The way rifle dispersion and kick can be modified using several parameters for all sorts of conditions (standing, crouching, walking) shows that the original designers really were looking for a long-term design. Similarly SLs appear to have a fairly large number of tweakable parameters (such as under which conditions exactly a lock on is lost).
There seems to be a lot of stuff to work with for the time being. Should anyone be working on a port though I'm sure we'll be asked for feedback as soon as possible .
The only hard mechanical change I'd like to see with swarm launchers right now is directional launching (making the missiles start their travel in the direction you launched them). That'd open up possibility for skillshots with SLs, which would be much appreciated I believe. |
JudgeIsABadPilot
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
44
|
Posted - 2015.10.10 19:26:00 -
[812] - Quote
Francois Sanchez wrote:
Reducing turn radius of swarm is actually a buff, it allows you to shoot around corners. I can't count the number of times a vehicle tried to escape behind something and my swarms turned so quickly they hit the obstacle. With reduced turn radius they'll get around and hit the vehicule.
"Allows to shoot around corners." |
Dreis ShadowWeaver
Abstract Requiem
8
|
Posted - 2015.10.11 04:16:00 -
[813] - Quote
What was the reasoning behind making depleted shield regen delay lower than regular shield regen delay? Was this actually intended?
Creator of the Nova Knifers United channel
Dreis' Minja Blog
CEO of Abstract Requiem
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DAAAA BEAST
Corrosive Synergy
3
|
Posted - 2015.10.11 04:28:00 -
[814] - Quote
Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:What was the reasoning behind making depleted shield regen delay lower than regular shield regen delay? Was this actually intended?
Don't even ask questions.
I am sure we are not worth CCP's wiseness to go through our brains ... I am sure it also makes perfect sense in their heads that a grenade does 900 damage.
Skirmishers Unite !
Help me revive our beloved gamemode.
Chat: Skirmish Queue
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DAAAA BEAST
Corrosive Synergy
3
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Posted - 2015.10.11 04:31:00 -
[815] - Quote
Good : Weapon tweaks ( Breach Mass Driver , ScP )
Cal Tanks Tweak
Gal / Cal Assault Bonus
Commando Cal skill to swarms.
Bad : M8 Packed Grenade
Small Blasters' Efficiency
Swarms turning around corners faster.
Skirmishers Unite !
Help me revive our beloved gamemode.
Chat: Skirmish Queue
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Dreis ShadowWeaver
Abstract Requiem
8
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Posted - 2015.10.11 04:32:00 -
[816] - Quote
DAAAA BEAST wrote:Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:What was the reasoning behind making depleted shield regen delay lower than regular shield regen delay? Was this actually intended? Don't even ask questions. I am sure we are not worth CCP's wiseness to go through our brains ... I am sure it also makes perfect sense in their heads that a grenade does 900 damage.
To be fair the packed grenade is rather useless because of the pitiful splash radius.
Creator of the Nova Knifers United channel
Dreis' Minja Blog
CEO of Abstract Requiem
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jace silencerww
MANUFACTURERS OF DEATH
195
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Posted - 2015.10.11 04:59:00 -
[817] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Devadander wrote:Kincat cost adjusted? Didn't seem like it. The PG cost was reduced considerably.
by 2 pg is not considerably. the kin cats pg now are where they should have been from day 1.
what to skill into next?
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XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
2
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Posted - 2015.10.11 06:18:00 -
[818] - Quote
jace silencerww wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Devadander wrote:Kincat cost adjusted? Didn't seem like it. The PG cost was reduced considerably. by 2 pg is not considerably. the kin cats pg now are where they should have been from day 1.
It is considerable when I am able to now fit better shield mods on my min scout.
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
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IAmDuncanIdaho II
Nos Nothi
4
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Posted - 2015.10.11 08:58:00 -
[819] - Quote
Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:DAAAA BEAST wrote:Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:What was the reasoning behind making depleted shield regen delay lower than regular shield regen delay? Was this actually intended? Don't even ask questions. I am sure we are not worth CCP's wiseness to go through our brains ... I am sure it also makes perfect sense in their heads that a grenade does 900 damage. To be fair the packed grenade is rather useless because of the pitiful splash radius.
nade spammer.
M8 is now a finesse tool :-p
This post has been liked by XxBlazikenxX
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noob cavman
Fatal Absolution
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
4
|
Posted - 2015.10.11 09:55:00 -
[820] - Quote
M8 is only for us brits m8.
We dont need your shock and awe approach to warfare.
The most abusive northerner.
currently reading clockwork vampires by andy remic. A terra bad/awesome author
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postapo wastelander
Corrosive Synergy
1
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Posted - 2015.10.11 16:30:00 -
[821] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Dear players, We have been hard at work, and especially our new CPM, diligently running feedback threads and collecting community thoughts. They proposed a "Top Priorities" list, based on that and my own thoughts, we have a new Hotfix planned out. Now is the time to give us good feedback, but again, a lot of it has been sourced already and we are quite happy with the numbers. If you want to know more about the CPM process, just ask them, they are always around. On top of that I do have my own ideas, and then we had the 23 pages of "Propose one change for the next Hotfix" thread. I actually typed every single idea from that list, and gave it a rating. I will need to clean it up and share it, because in its current state, it's rated R or 18. Now to the changes, found here: Shield TankingWe are taking a major step towards a balance between Armor and Shield tanking with this new Hotfix, radically strengthing the shield recharge rates, recharge delays and damage thresholds of Caldari and Minmatar Dropsuits. We also reduced the CPU cost of Shield Regulators by almost 20%t to top it off. HAV/AV BalanceThere is a logical thread through this that needs to be explained. We have talked about HAV vs AV balancing for an eternity it seems. The situation is simply 1.Gallente HAVs are very strong due to Hardener/Repair combo 2.Caldari HAVs are not strong enough comparatively 3.Dropships are ok, Caldari need a PG buff (not in this hotfix) but Swarms are too strong 4.Dedicated AV in the form of a Minmando with Swarms or otherwise, can definitely suppress HAVs and area deny Dropships, but rarely destroy vehicles. So instead of trying to tweak our way out of this, I propose a radical skill-based solution. Simply increasing the weak spot on HAVs considerably will allow dedicated AV and other vehicles to use positioning, speed and skill to heavily change the outcome of each encounter without having an effect on Dropships. Secondly, changing the Swarm Launcher profile to be a new Explosive GÇô Missile, and granting the damage bonus to the Caldari Commando, and leaving Minmatar Commandos with Explosive GÇô Explosives (both have a +20% Armor/-20% Shield damage profile. Thirdly, changing all Explosive Weapons to deal full damage to HAVs, making the Breach Mass Driver a potent AV weapon in the hands of a Minmatar Commando. Same thing for Assault HMGGÇÖs and Nova Knifes. All this extra damage potential towards HAVs is met with a strong buff for Caldari HAVs in the form of increased recharge rates and decreased recharge delays. The Gallente HAVs are strong enough to deal with it. Finally, reducing the Swarm Launcher lock-on range, hit impact and turning radius should improve the quality of life of Dropship users, and somewhat for HAVs. RiflesThe range discrepancy has made it very difficult to align the purpose and behavior of the fully-automatic rifles. They will therefore all be brought considerably closer to each other, with the Gallente Assault Rifle unchanged. Scrambler Rifle capability to hold a charge and follow up with multiple accurate hip fire shots is too strong. We are increasing the heat cost of the charge, and thereby reducing the number of follow up shots. The difference should be around 4 shots for a fully skilled Amarr Assault, more for non-skilled users. The movement speed while holding the charge is also reduced by 20%, similar to the Forge Gun. The Assault Scrambler Rifle is also a little too strong, especially against shields, and we will just increase the heat a little to bring the damage output down to where the other rifles are on the curve. The Gallente Assault Rifle family is fairly underpowered to the rest of them, not statistically per se, but due to other Assault Dropsuits having better Skill bonuses. ThatGÇÖs why we are introducing a very strong bonus into the form of a ROF bonus for Gallente Assault Dropsuits. Players have been clamoring for a better Caldari bonus as well, and that is being added as a Kick/Recoil reduction for Rail Rifles. Other WeaponsBreach Shotguns get a Clip and Ammo Buff, as do Burst Scrambler Pistols. Bolt Pistol ROF is reduced but Assault SMGs, Assault Scramblers and Scrambler Pistols get a ROF buff. MagSec gets a healthy damage buff and a charge time reduction. Small Blaster given a robust Splash radius buff to help with Anti Infantry work, especially from the skies, but also from HAVs/LAVs. Locus Grenade damage progression made Standard and Advanced grenades fairly useless, so we are going to have the same damage for all tiears, with increasing radius per tier. We are also fixing the Packed Locus and buffing the Fused Grenades considerably. ModulesWe wanted to improve the Biotics family so are reducing the PG cost of the KinCats, buffing the Cardiac Regulator. We normalized the Myofib damage bonus but increased base Melee damage on all dropsuits to make up for it. ThatGÇÖs it for now, go ahead and comment on these changes, that look like they will stir up the meta quite a lot.
Just redownload game because this fix, it looks like ccp finaly go in right direction.
"Caller of the Monolith"
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Dreis ShadowWeaver
Abstract Requiem
8
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Posted - 2015.10.11 16:41:00 -
[822] - Quote
IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:DAAAA BEAST wrote:Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:What was the reasoning behind making depleted shield regen delay lower than regular shield regen delay? Was this actually intended? Don't even ask questions. I am sure we are not worth CCP's wiseness to go through our brains ... I am sure it also makes perfect sense in their heads that a grenade does 900 damage. To be fair the packed grenade is rather useless because of the pitiful splash radius. nade spammer. M8 is now a finesse tool :-p
I threw it right at the feet of a Sentinel, didn't even register damage.
I threw it into a little crevice where a Logi was hiding, did nothing.
Creator of the Nova Knifers United channel
Dreis' Minja Blog
CEO of Abstract Requiem
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postapo wastelander
Corrosive Synergy
1
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Posted - 2015.10.11 16:55:00 -
[823] - Quote
Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:DAAAA BEAST wrote:Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:What was the reasoning behind making depleted shield regen delay lower than regular shield regen delay? Was this actually intended? Don't even ask questions. I am sure we are not worth CCP's wiseness to go through our brains ... I am sure it also makes perfect sense in their heads that a grenade does 900 damage. To be fair the packed grenade is rather useless because of the pitiful splash radius. nade spammer. M8 is now a finesse tool :-p I threw it right at the feet of a Sentinel, didn't even register damage. I threw it into a little crevice where a Logi was hiding, did nothing.
That is reasson why i have my thingy XD
If not work just use this strategy XP
"Caller of the Monolith"
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Dreis ShadowWeaver
Abstract Requiem
8
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Posted - 2015.10.11 17:42:00 -
[824] - Quote
postapo wastelander wrote:Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote:Dreis ShadowWeaver wrote:DAAAA BEAST wrote:Don't even ask questions.
I am sure we are not worth CCP's wiseness to go through our brains ... I am sure it also makes perfect sense in their heads that a grenade does 900 damage. To be fair the packed grenade is rather useless because of the pitiful splash radius. nade spammer. M8 is now a finesse tool :-p I threw it right at the feet of a Sentinel, didn't even register damage. I threw it into a little crevice where a Logi was hiding, did nothing. That is reasson why i have my thingy XD If not work just use this strategy XP
Dear God how I've missed you.
Creator of the Nova Knifers United channel
Dreis' Minja Blog
CEO of Abstract Requiem
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postapo wastelander
Corrosive Synergy
1
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Posted - 2015.10.11 17:57:00 -
[825] - Quote
Im back
"Caller of the Monolith"
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XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
2
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Posted - 2015.10.11 19:24:00 -
[826] - Quote
Get a room
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
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Cloak Dog
Horizons' Edge
574
|
Posted - 2015.10.11 19:25:00 -
[827] - Quote
Wait, the 'All standard BPOS' thing just isn't a thing I guess? Your...not gonna fix it CCP? At least acknowledge the issue by saying something.
I'm more bark then bite...sometimes...
BRUH
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postapo wastelander
Corrosive Synergy
1
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Posted - 2015.10.11 19:26:00 -
[828] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Get a room
Dont worry boyko, plenty of space for you too XD
"Caller of the Monolith"
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XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
2
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Posted - 2015.10.11 19:30:00 -
[829] - Quote
postapo wastelander wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Get a room Dont worry boyko, plenty of space for you too XD
Now I remember you...
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
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PARKOUR PRACTIONER
L0RDS 0F LEGI0N
Damage LLC
3
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Posted - 2015.10.11 19:33:00 -
[830] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:postapo wastelander wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Get a room Dont worry boyko, plenty of space for you too XD Now I remember you...
He's my friend.
Creed of GS, 'better to die than be scanned' MS creed, 'will die anyway so screw it' /Z)/V//V
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postapo wastelander
Corrosive Synergy
1
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Posted - 2015.10.11 19:50:00 -
[831] - Quote
PARKOUR PRACTIONER wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:postapo wastelander wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Get a room Dont worry boyko, plenty of space for you too XD Now I remember you... He's my friend.
Hows life bro, i saw you sometimes in Destiny ;)
And everytime when i tried to connect you disconnected XD
"Caller of the Monolith"
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Roger Cordill
The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar
DARKSTAR ARMY
445
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Posted - 2015.10.11 20:09:00 -
[832] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Roger Cordill wrote:Question: Did Ratatti buff small turrets to do full damage vs. HAV's? Blasters? Nope. Railguns and Missiles already did (or at least close to full anyway.)
They did around 60-80% depending on what they were shooting at. Blasters were the same, just that their shots couldn't break the shield regen. |
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
27
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Posted - 2015.10.12 03:45:00 -
[833] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:@Stefan: I also think the turning changes are a step in the right direction, they let you artificially increase the distance Swarms have to travel, which helps you actually leave the fight.
I do think Swarms need the variants looked at: having the base SL function like a 'Breach' with high damage but longish lock-on times (for HAV work) and the Assault having lower damage (probably a little lower than the current SL) but with longer lock range, faster lock-on and more shots in the clip.
That would go a long way towards solving SL balance by making them actually balance-capable, instead of OP vs one and UP vs the other. I'm receptive to the idea of separating SLs into long and short range versions. However I advise against separating them too far for several reasons. Most importantly, once we get into a territory where the two variants are separated into "anti-DS SL" and "anti-HAV SL" the utility of each individual SL will be greatly reduced. It's a good idea to have one SL that does long range supressive damage to both DS and HAV and a short range SL that can kill HAVs and forces DS to immediately flee out of range. But the long range SL needs to be able to deter an HAV that is rolling up to your face and the short range SL needs to be able to keep a DS away. Otherwise people won't use either of them unless they perform so well at their respective jobs that it'll be an unfair fight for the HAV or DS pilots.
would love to have these thoughts spelled out in actual before and after numbers per each swarm variant.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
490
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Posted - 2015.10.12 03:49:00 -
[834] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Stefan Stahl wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:@Stefan: I also think the turning changes are a step in the right direction, they let you artificially increase the distance Swarms have to travel, which helps you actually leave the fight.
I do think Swarms need the variants looked at: having the base SL function like a 'Breach' with high damage but longish lock-on times (for HAV work) and the Assault having lower damage (probably a little lower than the current SL) but with longer lock range, faster lock-on and more shots in the clip.
That would go a long way towards solving SL balance by making them actually balance-capable, instead of OP vs one and UP vs the other. I'm receptive to the idea of separating SLs into long and short range versions. However I advise against separating them too far for several reasons. Most importantly, once we get into a territory where the two variants are separated into "anti-DS SL" and "anti-HAV SL" the utility of each individual SL will be greatly reduced. It's a good idea to have one SL that does long range supressive damage to both DS and HAV and a short range SL that can kill HAVs and forces DS to immediately flee out of range. But the long range SL needs to be able to deter an HAV that is rolling up to your face and the short range SL needs to be able to keep a DS away. Otherwise people won't use either of them unless they perform so well at their respective jobs that it'll be an unfair fight for the HAV or DS pilots. would love to have these thoughts spelled out in actual before and after numbers per each swarm variant.
Question for theorycrafting...can missile speed and/or flight range be adjusted between variants? or just lock range?
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
27
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Posted - 2015.10.12 03:50:00 -
[835] - Quote
Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Stefan Stahl wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:@Stefan: I also think the turning changes are a step in the right direction, they let you artificially increase the distance Swarms have to travel, which helps you actually leave the fight.
I do think Swarms need the variants looked at: having the base SL function like a 'Breach' with high damage but longish lock-on times (for HAV work) and the Assault having lower damage (probably a little lower than the current SL) but with longer lock range, faster lock-on and more shots in the clip.
That would go a long way towards solving SL balance by making them actually balance-capable, instead of OP vs one and UP vs the other. I'm receptive to the idea of separating SLs into long and short range versions. However I advise against separating them too far for several reasons. Most importantly, once we get into a territory where the two variants are separated into "anti-DS SL" and "anti-HAV SL" the utility of each individual SL will be greatly reduced. It's a good idea to have one SL that does long range supressive damage to both DS and HAV and a short range SL that can kill HAVs and forces DS to immediately flee out of range. But the long range SL needs to be able to deter an HAV that is rolling up to your face and the short range SL needs to be able to keep a DS away. Otherwise people won't use either of them unless they perform so well at their respective jobs that it'll be an unfair fight for the HAV or DS pilots. would love to have these thoughts spelled out in actual before and after numbers per each swarm variant. Question for theorycrafting...can missile speed and/or flight range be adjusted between variants? or just lock range?
consider everything to be adjustable. I just need to create a different projectile type if we would do a faster one.
It is also possible to do one missile per swarm, if that's something interesting.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
493
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Posted - 2015.10.12 04:28:00 -
[836] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Stefan Stahl wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:@Stefan: I also think the turning changes are a step in the right direction, they let you artificially increase the distance Swarms have to travel, which helps you actually leave the fight.
I do think Swarms need the variants looked at: having the base SL function like a 'Breach' with high damage but longish lock-on times (for HAV work) and the Assault having lower damage (probably a little lower than the current SL) but with longer lock range, faster lock-on and more shots in the clip.
That would go a long way towards solving SL balance by making them actually balance-capable, instead of OP vs one and UP vs the other. I'm receptive to the idea of separating SLs into long and short range versions. However I advise against separating them too far for several reasons. Most importantly, once we get into a territory where the two variants are separated into "anti-DS SL" and "anti-HAV SL" the utility of each individual SL will be greatly reduced. It's a good idea to have one SL that does long range supressive damage to both DS and HAV and a short range SL that can kill HAVs and forces DS to immediately flee out of range. But the long range SL needs to be able to deter an HAV that is rolling up to your face and the short range SL needs to be able to keep a DS away. Otherwise people won't use either of them unless they perform so well at their respective jobs that it'll be an unfair fight for the HAV or DS pilots. would love to have these thoughts spelled out in actual before and after numbers per each swarm variant. Question for theorycrafting...can missile speed and/or flight range be adjusted between variants? or just lock range? consider everything to be adjustable. I just need to create a different projectile type if we would do a faster one. It is also possible to do one missile per swarm, if that's something interesting.
Spreadsheet Time!
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
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IAmDuncanIdaho II
Nos Nothi
4
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Posted - 2015.10.12 07:22:00 -
[837] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
It is also possible to do one missile per swarm, if that's something interesting.
Oooh. Swarm cannon. Though...it's not really "swarming" any more....RPG launcher lol. Dumbfire, massive damage.
[edit]
But I guess that's the PLC currently. Could be an armour variant
This post has been liked by XxBlazikenxX
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
1
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Posted - 2015.10.12 08:27:00 -
[838] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:would love to have these thoughts spelled out in actual before and after numbers per each swarm variant. I'll entertain the thought and see what comes of it, but I can't promise I'll be able to prioritize it sufficiently.
By the way, I proposed a dumb-fire single-missile SL variant back in June 2014 with these stats:The past wrote:- 1 "Missile" per shot
- No lock-on
- 400 direct damage per shot
- 8 shots per clip
- 60 rpm
- About the same projectile speed as current Swam Launcher (-> playtest)
- Same splash damage stats as current Swarm Launcher
- Same range of rockets as current Swam Launcher These days I think I'd give it ~200 hp splash damage at a 2 meter radius for some medium range supportive anti-infantry capability. Too little to be competitive (a pro flaylock does 340 dps splash), but enough to add some utility for those times when there isn't an HAV within 60 meters of you. |
maybe deadcatz
TRUE TEA BAGGERS
Smart Deploy
1
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Posted - 2015.10.12 10:47:00 -
[839] - Quote
potato
Ha! You can't kill me! I'm already dead!
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Lt Higgster
Elysium's Electorate
11
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 11:20:00 -
[840] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:please read the whole thing. Overall a massive buff for dedicated AV, both infantry and vehicle. I did read the whole thing. Can you spell out the part where Swarms were buffed? If the damage was buffed in a way I'm not realizing, can you explain how that's supposed to help when I have half the range of a forge gun, and can't really hit anything I want to fire at anyhow? CCP Rattati wrote:Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon? Logically, my ability to punt infantry suits with the forge means it's superior to swarms in multiple ways. Does the forge have tracking? the forge is a heavy weapon with loads of drawbacks and therefore packs the highest punch.
I agree with Rattati the range needed to be nerfed. My CEO likes to run a Rep-Based Grimnes for transport and it reps at like 300 armor per second (I think). His ship gets taken out by basic swarms all the time, not because he's a bad pilot, far from it. It's because swarms don't really take any skill to use. You point, wait to lock on and then fire. Not like the forge gun where you have to lead the target and carefully aim to hit the target. When his dropship with XT missiles and complex mods costs him about 500k ISK per Dropship, basic swarms should have a hard time taking it out (in my opinion).
"If we have to give these bastards our lives, WE GIVE THEM HELL BEFORE WE DO!"
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Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
974
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 11:47:00 -
[841] - Quote
Lt Higgster wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:please read the whole thing. Overall a massive buff for dedicated AV, both infantry and vehicle. I did read the whole thing. Can you spell out the part where Swarms were buffed? If the damage was buffed in a way I'm not realizing, can you explain how that's supposed to help when I have half the range of a forge gun, and can't really hit anything I want to fire at anyhow? CCP Rattati wrote:Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon? Logically, my ability to punt infantry suits with the forge means it's superior to swarms in multiple ways. Does the forge have tracking? the forge is a heavy weapon with loads of drawbacks and therefore packs the highest punch. I agree with Rattati the range needed to be nerfed. My CEO likes to run a Rep-Based Grimnes for transport and it reps at like 300 armor per second (I think). His ship gets taken out by basic swarms all the time, not because he's a bad pilot, far from it. It's because swarms don't really take any skill to use. You point, wait to lock on and then fire. Not like the forge gun where you have to lead the target and carefully aim to hit the target. When his dropship with XT missiles and complex mods costs him about 500k ISK per Dropship, basic swarms should have a hard time taking it out (in my opinion).
A basic swarm is going to struggle to kill any vehicle aside from a LAV.
Also if he's fitting proto turrets before fitting tank to actually survive, he is doing it so wrong. You can get a dropship to survive a fair bit of punishment but basic swarms are never killing a dropship unless the pilot just sits there.
Dropships need some love but if you are getting killed by a basic swarm then you are bad.
Wanna play eve?
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 13:43:00 -
[842] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:A basic swarm is going to struggle to kill any vehicle aside from a LAV.
Also if he's fitting proto turrets before fitting tank to actually survive, he is doing it so wrong. You can get a dropship to survive a fair bit of punishment but basic swarms are never killing a dropship unless the pilot just sits there.
Dropships need some love but if you are getting killed by a basic swarm then you are bad.
Basic Swarms do fine damage vs dropships. This coming from a guy with only Operation 3 and using it on a GalCom. Seriously, they work fine, the only reason they don't kill very often is because dropships are forced to flee immediately - which they can usually do - but that also means that I've just gotten 75-150WP and the dropship is out of the fight for 20-60 seconds.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
976
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 13:53:00 -
[843] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:A basic swarm is going to struggle to kill any vehicle aside from a LAV.
Also if he's fitting proto turrets before fitting tank to actually survive, he is doing it so wrong. You can get a dropship to survive a fair bit of punishment but basic swarms are never killing a dropship unless the pilot just sits there.
Dropships need some love but if you are getting killed by a basic swarm then you are bad. Basic Swarms do fine damage vs dropships. This coming from a guy with only Operation 3 and using it on a GalCom. Seriously, they work fine, the only reason they don't kill very often is because dropships are forced to flee immediately - which they can usually do - but that also means that I've just gotten 75-150WP and the dropship is out of the fight for 20-60 seconds.
I have all swarm skills at five and have been using them for the past 2 years, I know for a fact that a properly fit dropship is never, ever going to worry about basic swarms, 1300 damage is nothing with a 40% hardener and 200+ reps per second. You'll only take 780 damage per volley and by the time all of them have hit, you'll have repped most of it back.
Wanna play eve?
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Lt Higgster
Elysium's Electorate
12
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 14:04:00 -
[844] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:
A basic swarm is going to struggle to kill any vehicle aside from a LAV.
Also if he's fitting proto turrets before fitting tank to actually survive, he is doing it so wrong. You can get a dropship to survive a fair bit of punishment but basic swarms are never killing a dropship unless the pilot just sits there.
Dropships need some love but if you are getting killed by a basic swarm then you are bad.
He never sits still, while he is not the best pilot in the skies, he is pretty decent and getting better. He usually flies teammates in and drops them at a point then leaves, but by the time he gets to the point he is already getting swarmed. The fact that swarms follow dropships until 400m means all someone needs to do is get all three shots off before the dropship is out of range.
"If we have to give these bastards our lives, WE GIVE THEM HELL BEFORE WE DO!"
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Devadander
Woodgrain Atari
846
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Posted - 2015.10.12 14:12:00 -
[845] - Quote
Lt Higgster wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:please read the whole thing. Overall a massive buff for dedicated AV, both infantry and vehicle. I did read the whole thing. Can you spell out the part where Swarms were buffed? If the damage was buffed in a way I'm not realizing, can you explain how that's supposed to help when I have half the range of a forge gun, and can't really hit anything I want to fire at anyhow? CCP Rattati wrote:Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon? Logically, my ability to punt infantry suits with the forge means it's superior to swarms in multiple ways. Does the forge have tracking? the forge is a heavy weapon with loads of drawbacks and therefore packs the highest punch. I agree with Rattati the range needed to be nerfed. My CEO likes to run a Rep-Based Grimnes for transport and it reps at like 300 armor per second (I think). His ship gets taken out by basic swarms all the time, not because he's a bad pilot, far from it. It's because swarms don't really take any skill to use. You point, wait to lock on and then fire. Not like the forge gun where you have to lead the target and carefully aim to hit the target. When his dropship with XT missiles and complex mods costs him about 500k ISK per Dropship, basic swarms should have a hard time taking it out (in my opinion).
Swarms take little skill to use, a ton of skill to stay alive long enough to use them.
When I infantry and I see a guy with a huge brick on his shoulder, I target him first. Easy kill. Reds feel the same when I try to use them.
Gêå You want a toe? I can get you a toe dude. Gêå
Joined - 06-28-12 ~Deal with it~
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Balistyc Farshot
MONSTER SYNERGY
420
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 16:59:00 -
[846] - Quote
Everyone talks about DMG and range without talking about my favorite part, the concussive effects of AV.
Can we perhaps have the short range version perform the same damage (Then we have less separation that way.) and focus more on improvements in concussion on the DS.
Then the long range swarms can be DS preferred deterrents without too much impact to the DMG profile. I would say make the close swarm into 2 projectiles - This will make anti tank easier because you won't expect to lose 2 missiles to collission with environment during dispersion.
Then make the long range swarm missiles really shake up the pilots. Then the most skilled pilots will roll and come out OK again, but most average pilots will lose their baring. The area denial would be huge and getting close to terrain would potentially be deadly. This might also help with LAVs because shaking them up flips them often.
So make the long range swarm a breach swarm, with 1 fewer shot in the clip, worse tracking. but with say 50% increase to the jostle.
The standard swarms get reduced to 2 missiles but with comparable dmg profiles. Reduce lockon range to 150m and leave the lockon time alone for them. Turn up the missile turn speed so it almost straight lines to the target.
"Dying with your rep tool out - the logi-flasher!"
Who hasn't been caught by a cute little female scout doing this?
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.10.12 17:07:00 -
[847] - Quote
(Lots of hypothetical maths ahead.)
TL;DR
STD, low SP-invested Swarms can definitely function as a deterrent and kill slow/careless pilots.
Full power PRO Swarms are why DS pilots complain so intensely about them, because it's a roughly equivalent SP investment but the difference in applied effort is huge.
Echo 1991 wrote:I have all swarm skills at five and have been using them for the past 2 years, I know for a fact that a properly fit dropship is never, ever going to worry about basic swarms, 1300 damage is nothing with a 40% hardener and 200+ reps per second. You'll only take 780 damage per volley and by the time all of them have hit, you'll have repped most of it back.
A hardened, ~200 Reps/sec is an Incubus with next to no tank.
Swarms do 284/1136 per volley; *1.2 (profile vs armour) *.6 (1 hardener) = 817.92 per volley at STD. That's without Proficiency, Damage Mods, Warbarge or Commando bonuses applying.
Swarms take a base 1.4s to lock-on, roughly .25s of re-lock delay and roughly 5s of travel time to an ADS at ~150m range. So by the time the first volley has reached the ADS, the second volley has launched (at ~1.7s of flight) and the third volley is launched as the first hits (~3.4s)
Assuming the travel time is much shorter (say 2.5s) then the Swarms arrive:
First volley launched (1.4s) [0 damage applied]
Second volley locked and released (~3.1s) [0 damage applied]
First volley hits (3.9s) [908.8/950 shields lost]
Third volley locked and launched (~4.8s)
Second volley hits (5.6s) [42 shields lost; 780.12 damage to armour applied]
Third volley hits (8.1s) [2.5s of regen (200*2.5=500); 280.12+817.92=1098.04 damage applied]
Reload finishes (9.4s) [1.3s of regen (200*1.3=260); 838.04 damage applied to armour]
So, without its shields gone, the Incubus will escape, assuming 200 reps/sec and an active hardener (which is very dependant on timing, unless they are coming in active, which is a whole debate unto itself regarding time in the area.)
Now, if that Incubus has not located the Swarmer (something rather likely, given the many issues concering many pilots) the Swarmer does much more damage. So will a STD (that is, 0 SP spent on Swarms whatsoever) Swarmer kill an Incubus with 200 r/s and hardened? Likely not.
What about with a few buffs?
STD Swarm (1136/volley) with 3% warbarge (1170.08) and one Complex Damage mod (1275.39)
vs Shields; 1020.31
vs Armour; 1530.47 (918.28 vs 1 Hardener)
Not to forget, that this is still a zero SP investment (I'd assume AUR-bought STD Swarms...for some reason.)
First volley launched (1.4s)
Second volley locked and released (~3.1s)
First volley hits (3.9s) [950 shields lost; 63.28 damage applied assuming active hardener]
Third volley locked and launched (~4.8s) [0.9s of regen; 0 armour damage applied]
Second volley hits (5.6s) [918.28 damage applied]
Third volley hits (8.1s) [2.5s of regen (500); 418.28+918.28=1336.56
Reload finishes (9.4s) [1.3s of regen (260); 1076.56 damage to armour]
Fourth volley locked and launched (10.8s)
Fifth volley locked and launched (12.5s)
Fourth volley hits (13.3s) [5.2s of regen (5.2*200=1040); 36.56+918.28=954.84]
Sixth volley locked and launched (14.2s)
Fifth volley hits (15s) [1.7s of regen (1.7*200=340); 614.84+918.28=1533.12]
Sixth volley hits (17.5s) [2.5s of regen (500); 1033.12+918.28=1951.4 damage to armour] - 2362-1951.4=410.6 damage shy of killing it.
So, from that I can see that a STD Swarm has a very low chance of killing a relatively highly invested Incubus (200 r/s is 2x Complex Light Repairs; a fairly large investment alongside the initial investment of the Dropship and Assault Dropship skills themselves.)
Is a 'properly fit' dropship going to worry about STD Swarms? Yes, because the above examples were not even close to the maximum potential damage
Using the above template, with the following modifiers (which are still not the maximum potential, considering it leaves out Proficiency entirely):
STD Swarm (1136), 3% warbarge (1170.8), 2x complex light damage mods (1275.39; 1374.11) and CalCom 5 (1511.52)
vs Shields: 1209.21
vs Armour: 1813.82 (1088.29 vs 1 hardener)
Also Rapid Reload 5 (4.5s reload -> 2.87s)
First volley launched (1.05s)
Second volley launched (2.4s)
- First volley hits (3.55s) (950 shields lost; 233.29 damage to armour)
Third volley launched (3.75s)
- Second volley hits (4.9s) [1.35s regen (1.35*200=270); 0+1088.29]
- Third volley hits (6.25s) [1.35s regen (270); 818.29+1088.29=1906.58
Reload finishes (6.62s)
Fourth volley launched (7.67s)
Fifth volley launched (9.02s)
- Fourth volley hits (10.17s) [3.92s regen (3.92*200=784); 1122.58+1088.29=2210.87 (151.13 away from death)]
Sixth volley launched (10.37s)
- Fifth volley hits (11.52s) [1.35s regen (270); 1940.87+1088.29=3029.16 (+667.16 needed to kill)]
- Sixth volley hits thin air.
Yes, STD Swarms are definitely capable of being dangerous, considering that the Incubus's hardeners were already active, and that the Swarmer didn't potential reload after stripping the shields (which would increase their applied armour damage substantially) and that this fit can exist on a roughly 20-40k suit. Add in Proficiency 5 to the above and the Incubus dies on the fourth volley - then you're actually looking at roughly similarly SP investment too, considering what an Incubus actually needs to be fitted 'properly' (properly, aka, approaching the most basic viable fits.)
When you consider Wiykomis, it gets kinda ridiculous:
Wiyrkomi (1248), 3% warbarge (1285), 2x complex light damage mods (1401.13; 1509.58), CalCom 5 (1660.54)
vs Shields: 1328.4
vs Armour, Prof 5; 2291.55 (1374.93 vs 1 hardener)
With the Wiyrkomi above, the Incubus dies on the third volley: that's at 6.25s-ish, because most good pilots know the rough tier they're facing when they get hit, because Wirkomis will break shields and still hurt a bunch.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.10.12 17:39:00 -
[848] - Quote
Regarding the above, I derped on the damage mod numbers, so they'll be fixed in a minute.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
978
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 18:54:00 -
[849] - Quote
Basic damage is 260, so without dmg mods it does and with proficiency 842.4 per volley. Assuming no shields, and say 200 reps per second. First swarm hits, takes around 3 seconds to lock and hit. After the initial hit the dropship will almost be at the third rep cycle and only have taken 242.4 damage overall. If was a shorter travel time of say 2 seconds, it would take 442.4 damage per volley
At the end of all that, the dropship will have taken 1327.2 damage. Add the fact that it's gonna take maybe 3-4 seconds to reload and then fire again, you're looking close to 527-727 damage.
If shields are full, the first volley isn't even breaking the shields.
Even with the extra 20ish% damage the swarm could have with complex damage mods (assuming 3 of them) and warbarge thing it is highly unlikely that the dropship would be destroyed. Cos for one it would easily get out of there and two, it would take about 4 clips to actually kill the damn thing.
Wanna play eve?
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XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 18:56:00 -
[850] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Basic damage is 260, so without dmg mods it does and with proficiency 842.4 per volley. Assuming no shields, and say 200 reps per second. First swarm hits, takes around 3 seconds to lock and hit. After the initial hit the dropship will almost be at the third rep cycle and only have taken 242.4 damage overall. If was a shorter travel time of say 2 seconds, it would take 442.4 damage per volley
At the end of all that, the dropship will have taken 1327.2 damage. Add the fact that it's gonna take maybe 3-4 seconds to reload and then fire again, you're looking close to 527-727 damage.
If shields are full, the first volley isn't even breaking the shields.
Even with the extra 20ish% damage the swarm could have with complex damage mods (assuming 3 of them) and warbarge thing it is highly unlikely that the dropship would be destroyed. Cos for one it would easily get out of there and two, it would take about 4 clips to actually kill the damn thing.
That would be assuming the pilot fit his drop ship correctly.
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
423
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 19:12:00 -
[851] - Quote
It's rare to have a dropship fit correctly due to the level of SP one must invest to create a correct fit.
Now, forget about something with constant rep, n step over to the python.
Let's see how the python holds up on paper. I'm genuinely intrigued
Forever ADS. Best role.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.10.12 21:42:00 -
[852] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:Let's see how the python holds up on paper. I'm genuinely intrigued
Give me a Python fit and I'll run the above
[Edit: I may have been running the above situations with ADV numbers: I'm away from DUST so I'm going from memory - hence the derp on damage mods...]
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.10.12 22:05:00 -
[853] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Basic damage is 260, so without dmg mods it does and with proficiency 842.4 per volley (with a hardener). Assuming no shields, and say 200 reps per second. First swarm hits, takes around 3 seconds to lock and hit. After the initial hit the dropship will almost be at the third rep cycle and only have taken 242.4 damage overall. If was a shorter travel time of say 2 seconds, it would take 442.4 damage per volley
At the end of all that, the dropship will have taken 1327.2 damage. Add the fact that it's gonna take maybe 3-4 seconds to reload and then fire again, you're looking close to 527-727 damage.
If shields are full, the first volley isn't even breaking the shields.
Even with the extra 20ish% damage the swarm could have with complex damage mods (assuming 3 of them) and warbarge thing it is highly unlikely that the dropship would be destroyed. Cos for one it would easily get out of there and two, it would take about 4 clips to actually kill the damn thing.
That's kind of a gross overstatement.
STD Swarms (260 per missile/ 1040 per volley), 3% warbarge (1071.2), first damage mod (1146.18), second damage mod (1215.18), third damage mod (1262.82), CalCom 5 (1389.1)
vs Shields : 1111.28
vs Armour: 1666.92 (Prof 5: 1916.96; 1150.18 vs 1 hardener)
So, assuming a 3s travel time (mostly because whole seconds are easier and I've gotten lazy!):
First volley launched (1.05s)
Second volley launced (2.4s)
Third volley launched (3.75s)
First volley hits (4.05s) [166.93 damage to armour past the shields]
Second volley hits (5.4s) [1.35s regen (270); 0+1150.18]
Third volley hits (6.75s) [1.35s regen (270); 880.18+1150.18= 2030.36]
Reload finishes (7.125s - no RR, but including Com) [0.375s regen (75); 1955.36]
Fourth volley launched (8.175s)
Fifth volley launched (9.525s)
Sixth volley launced (10.875s)
Fourth volley hits (11.175s) [4.05s regen (810); 1145.36+1150.18= 2295.54 (-66.46 from killing the Incubus)]
Fifth volley hits (12.525s) [1.35s regen (270); 2025.54+1150.18= dead Incubus.
Sixth volley hits (13.875s) - already killed.
Four clips is a massive overstatement. Though that said, the fight is hard to put on paper, because the distance between the two is going to change rapidly and often (the pilot maybe be circling, may be coming towards or going away from the Swarmer, there's likely a point where the Incubus either finds the Swarmer and engages or simply disengages. It's a very variable engagement.)
Still, a STD Swarmer with actual SP investment has a reasonable chance of destroying the target if they remain beyond the first clip, and if two STD Swarmers hit the DS then they're likely to go down in flames.
[Edit: and while the above example has things like CalCom and Prof 5, that's roughly the kind of investment that the ADS will be making with the ADS skill and turret skills/tanking skills.]
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
979
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 23:08:00 -
[854] - Quote
I never said it was shooting an incubus, I know that swarms are stupid strong against them and as I've said ADS need a buff cos they are paper thin. A grimsnes or myron is nowhere near as squishy cos they have more fitting room.
So, as I was saying, it would take 4 clips for a standard swarm to kill a grimsnes.
Wanna play eve?
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
424
|
Posted - 2015.10.12 23:09:00 -
[855] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:Let's see how the python holds up on paper. I'm genuinely intrigued Give me a Python fit and I'll run the above [Edit: I may have been running the above situations with ADV numbers: I'm away from DUST so I'm going from memory - hence the derp on damage mods...]
Typical python 2555
A hardener, enhanced extend, AB
Or a shield boost, hardener, enhanced extended
Full pro, so 40 sec delay shield boost, 45 sec AB, 45 sec hardener (enhanced nevertheless... Comp is heavy to fit)
Forever ADS. Best role.
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
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Posted - 2015.10.13 00:05:00 -
[856] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:Typical python 2555
A hardener, enhanced extend, AB
Or a shield boost, hardener, enhanced extended
Full pro, so 40 sec delay shield boost, 45 sec AB, 45 sec hardener (enhanced nevertheless... Comp is heavy to fit)
this is a "good" fit... One of the most general fits you'll see with the python... Also one of the only effective builds of the python... (well rounded) Other builds, (aka "special fit" to me) are very user specific and used for "special" conditions.
If i gave you one of those fits, it can skew the results that most people would encounter
Alright, we'll go for the Hardener/Booster/Extender, that seems the most versatile.
So it's 2555/960, Light Booster gives 900hp, we'll assume Hardener activated once the first volley hits/heard and perfect awareness that they're 1v1 (a stretch for any pilot, but still.) 4s/9s recharge/depleted delays, 224hp/s rate.
1.05s lock-on, 0.3s relock delay, 3s travel time.
STD Swarm (1040), Op 5 (1.05s lock), 2x PRO damage mods (1179.79), CalCom 5 (1297.77) (RR5/CC5; 2.87s reload)
vs Shields: 1038.22 (622.93 vs 1 hardener)
vs Armour: 1557.32
First volley launched (1.05s)
Second volley launched (2.4s)
Hardener triggered (3s)
Third volley launched (3.75s)
First volley hits (4.05s) [1038.22 damage]
Hardener activated (5s)
Second volley hits (5.4s) [1038.22+622.93=1661.15]
Reload finishes (6.62s)
Third volley hits (6.75s) [1661.15+622.93= 2284.08]
Fourth volley launched (7.97s)
Fifth volley launched (9.32s)
Sixth volley launched (10.67s)
Fourth volley hits (10.97s) [4.22s since last hit: (0.22*224 regen = 49.28); 2234.8+622.93= 2857.73; 756.83 armour damage; Booster triggered]
Booster activates (11.97s) [1655 shield damage]
Fifth volley hits (12.32s) [0.35s regen (0.35*224=78.4]; 1576.6+622.93= 2199.53]
Reload finishes (13.54s)
Sixth volley hits (13.67s) [2199.53+622.93= 756.83+668.65 armour damage = dead Python.]
The big thing here is when the Booster and Hardener get activated. If the Booster gets activated after the third volley hits, to maximise the triggered recharge, then the Python survives the sixth volley. My brain has begun to melt a bit, so I probably should've just done it that way initially...blarg.
Anyway, yeah, the Python can survive the beating better initially, but will be forced to endure the downtime of the active modules, which is a bigger factor in a long term skirmish overall, and a mistake (like triggering the Booster at the wrong time, or activating the Hardener late) is far more brutal. Python has far more finesse than the Incubus, due to the non-passive nature of its regen.
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
426
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 00:47:00 -
[857] - Quote
Thanks!
But that's a heavy assumption... Precisely when and where the swarmer was... To use a python it takes real skill then
To me the best time to boost is right after the third volley hits.. The reload time will give a couple 224 more to sHP.. (Which you have recognized also)
Nevertheless, it's rough to use due to module execution... Which the average pilot has failed to master. Heck sometimes in the heat of battle i might flick off my hardener by accident when I try to get shield boost.
Now if capacitor was a thing............................... Hm?
Meh, i should stay on topic.
It shows a lot though, the python is in as long as it has a way to restart its recharge... Without shield boost but with hardeners it's a 5 volley (approx 12.32s) game
Forever ADS. Best role.
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
426
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 01:00:00 -
[858] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:I never said it was shooting an incubus, I know that swarms are stupid strong against them and as I've said ADS need a buff cos they are paper thin. A grimsnes or myron is nowhere near as squishy cos they have more fitting room.
So, as I was saying, it would take 4 clips for a standard swarm to kill a grimsnes.
Depends on the fit... A skilled pilot w/ a max rep (393.75) aHP/s grims can survive quite a long time...
Either never stop moving near top speed or.... Stop moving completely forward.
Now... That survival is based on when s/he "glitches" the swarms above the ship to make it spiral above, effectively increasing the amount of time one can rep.
Now... If they do it between volleys it's suicide... It'll be a +2k alpha strike firstly. secondly s/he has to commit to this one maneuver...
If executed correctly, it can increase life by 1 or 2 (rare chance) volleys.
Forever ADS. Best role.
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
495
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 02:04:00 -
[859] - Quote
Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
would love to have these thoughts spelled out in actual before and after numbers per each swarm variant.
Question for theorycrafting...can missile speed and/or flight range be adjusted between variants? or just lock range? consider everything to be adjustable. I just need to create a different projectile type if we would do a faster one. It is also possible to do one missile per swarm, if that's something interesting. Spreadsheet Time!
Made a thread to try to centralize discussion/theorycrafting on swarms and variants
Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.
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Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
980
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 08:15:00 -
[860] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:I never said it was shooting an incubus, I know that swarms are stupid strong against them and as I've said ADS need a buff cos they are paper thin. A grimsnes or myron is nowhere near as squishy cos they have more fitting room.
So, as I was saying, it would take 4 clips for a standard swarm to kill a grimsnes. Depends on the fit... A skilled pilot w/ a max rep (393.75) aHP/s grims can survive quite a long time... Either never stop moving near top speed or.... Stop moving completely forward. Now... That survival is based on when s/he "glitches" the swarms above the ship to make it spiral above, effectively increasing the amount of time one can rep. Now... If they do it between volleys it's suicide... It'll be a +2k alpha strike firstly. secondly s/he has to commit to this one maneuver... If executed correctly, it can increase life by 1 or 2 (rare chance) volleys.
I know it takes some skills to increase the survivability, and getting the hell out of there works too. I think standard dropships and ADS need a straight HP and fitting buff. Especially PG on armour ships, cos it's very tight on fitting.
Wanna play eve?
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Stefan Stahl
Seituoda Taskforce Command
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 08:58:00 -
[861] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:I know it takes some skills to increase the survivability, and getting the hell out of there works too. I think standard dropships and ADS need a straight HP and fitting buff. Especially PG on armour ships, cos it's very tight on fitting. The Myron is actually worse for fitting space. It lags a fair bit behind the Grimsnes right now and could definitely go with +5% PG.
On the other hand at some point I wouldn't know what to fit to its low slots... |
Nirwanda Vaughns
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 09:30:00 -
[862] - Quote
wondering if the base recoil on ARR's need changing. They still seem to be favored over most rifles and they're still outgunning the new Gallente Assault and on a caldari assault they're even better. We did a test last night and because of range of BAR vs ARR and on a caldari assault and non caldari suit the ARR still pipped the AR's
Making the base recoil a little worse off it may discourage the use on other suits but still be a viable close quarters for a skilled caldari but allowing for AR variants to still be king of CQC. The regular RR seems to be a nice balance atm, slight tweak to make it little less effective on other racial suits wouldn't hurt but it's nothing too worrying
Please fix my C-II hitpoints!! Jesus and I love you :)
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Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
981
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 10:14:00 -
[863] - Quote
Stefan Stahl wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:I know it takes some skills to increase the survivability, and getting the hell out of there works too. I think standard dropships and ADS need a straight HP and fitting buff. Especially PG on armour ships, cos it's very tight on fitting. The Myron is actually worse for fitting space. It lags a fair bit behind the Grimsnes right now and could definitely go with +5% PG. On the other hand at some point I wouldn't know what to fit to its low slots...
Either way, yo fit them properly they need PG mods. I think the engineering and electronics skills should provide a small bonus to fitting, maybe 2-3% per level, hell even 5% if it makes things easier for dropships. They really need some love.
Wanna play eve?
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Kallas Hallytyr
Skullbreakers
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 10:35:00 -
[864] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Either way, yo fit them properly they need PG mods. I think the engineering and electronics skills should provide a small bonus to fitting, maybe 2-3% per level, hell even 5% if it makes things easier for dropships. They really need some love.
Amen to that. I'd kill to not be required to fit a PG Upgrade in my Python's low slot
Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
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Sylwester Dziewiecki
510
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 13:17:00 -
[865] - Quote
Minty Essence wrote:Scrambler Rifle has become almost unusable! Against armour medium suits (the majority of suits) I struggle to even kill basic suits with a prototype weapon + 3 damage mods before the gun overheats. It now seems that the rifle is a support weapon only, designed to strip the shields and let someone with a better weapon finish off the enemy (at least against armour tankers). The Scrambler Rifle did need a nerf, but a scalpel was needed, not a sledgehammer! :(
Also, grenade spam is getting ridiculous! Pretty sure a buff for them was in the wrong direction...
Edit: With the Scrambler Rifle, maybe a buff in heat dissipation/speed to reset after overheating would work well. If CCP want shots not to be spammed, a little time between each shot would then stop overheating if the heat level went down quickly.
Edit 2: After playing a few more matches, I can see that the ScR is completely useless other than against the odd shield tanker and/or light suit at long range. Can I get a remap so I can use CRs?
You will not be happy with CR - all the time, you do not have range on that weapon, as soon you scrach someone shield he run away and die from someone ales fire. It's like opposite weapon to SR as you described.
G Speed Scout. MM Logi/Assault.
EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
17
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 14:37:00 -
[866] - Quote
Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote:Minty Essence wrote:Scrambler Rifle has become almost unusable! Against armour medium suits (the majority of suits) I struggle to even kill basic suits with a prototype weapon + 3 damage mods before the gun overheats. It now seems that the rifle is a support weapon only, designed to strip the shields and let someone with a better weapon finish off the enemy (at least against armour tankers). The Scrambler Rifle did need a nerf, but a scalpel was needed, not a sledgehammer! :(
Also, grenade spam is getting ridiculous! Pretty sure a buff for them was in the wrong direction...
Edit: With the Scrambler Rifle, maybe a buff in heat dissipation/speed to reset after overheating would work well. If CCP want shots not to be spammed, a little time between each shot would then stop overheating if the heat level went down quickly.
Edit 2: After playing a few more matches, I can see that the ScR is completely useless other than against the odd shield tanker and/or light suit at long range. Can I get a remap so I can use CRs? You will not be happy with CR - all the time, you do not have range on that weapon, as soon you scrach someone shield he run away and die from someone else fire. It's like opposite weapon to SR as you described.
Are the guns to blame or are HP pools?
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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idlerowl
Old-Type
Loud and Dawn
56
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 15:54:00 -
[867] - Quote
Hothix is comming!!
It's good .
But I have a question , "ARR is not affected Cal-assault reduction bonus ? "
Particularly remarkable ADS.
It's do not change at all other suits.
I want you to give an effect if possible that Cal-assault reduction bonus to ARR .
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XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 15:55:00 -
[868] - Quote
idlerowl wrote:Hothix is comming!! It's good . But I have a question , "ARR is not affected Cal-assault reduction bonus ? " Particularly remarkable ADS. It's do not change at all other suits. I want you to give an effect if possible that Cal-assault reduction bonus to ARR .
All rail rifles are affected, including Assault Rail Rifles.
Also, the hotfix has already dropped.
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
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Zan Azikuchi
G.R.A.V.E
The Ditanian Alliance
286
|
Posted - 2015.10.13 21:33:00 -
[869] - Quote
Is it me? Or has shield's just been band-aided? Because shield competitiveness has not changed in the least amount this hotfix....
The bonus to the RR's is nice, but ineffective since any decent player could reasonably control the recoil, perhaps we should swap the bonus' between the gal's and the cal's.
When there is light, shadow's lurk and fear reign's... Yet by the blade of knight's, mankind, was given hope.
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Tri Stone
Intara Direct Action
Caldari State
50
|
Posted - 2015.10.14 02:25:00 -
[870] - Quote
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:Tri Stone wrote:Everything else looks beautiful but you are missing one thing, the balance on the OP active scanner equipment. Being discussed.
any way this discussion could involve the community in the form of a thread?
NewEarthOrder
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argel999
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
The T.H.I.R.D Empire
33
|
Posted - 2015.10.14 16:56:00 -
[871] - Quote
Tri Stone wrote:Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:Tri Stone wrote:Everything else looks beautiful but you are missing one thing, the balance on the OP active scanner equipment. Being discussed. any way this discussion could involve the community in the form of a thread?
A new better kind of CPU/PG penalty for multi equipment to scanns at least.
...SLAYER...
Sometimes Pubs are more difficul than PCs, yea Scotty trolls you with a 16 vs 10 and anybody into squad
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idlerowl
Old-Type
Loud and Dawn
56
|
Posted - 2015.10.14 18:02:00 -
[872] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:idlerowl wrote:Hothix is comming!! It's good . But I have a question , "ARR is not affected Cal-assault reduction bonus ? " Particularly remarkable ADS. It's do not change at all other suits. I want you to give an effect if possible that Cal-assault reduction bonus to ARR . All rail rifles are affected, including Assault Rail Rifles. Also, the hotfix has already dropped.
Thanks, I'll try again. |
XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
|
Posted - 2015.10.14 18:32:00 -
[873] - Quote
idlerowl wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:idlerowl wrote:Hothix is comming!! It's good . But I have a question , "ARR is not affected Cal-assault reduction bonus ? " Particularly remarkable ADS. It's do not change at all other suits. I want you to give an effect if possible that Cal-assault reduction bonus to ARR . All rail rifles are affected, including Assault Rail Rifles. Also, the hotfix has already dropped. Thanks, I'll try again.
No problem.
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
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CELESTA AUNGM
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
670
|
Posted - 2015.10.14 19:49:00 -
[874] - Quote
Speaking as objectively as I think I'm able, FoxFour has not created any of the lopsidedness, that I was being convinced it would have when I read other's posts of warning and prediction.
The broader range on our grenades has not caused a rampage of locus grenade-throwing in my matches. I myself have increased the locus grenade use (which is a good thing, since I had all but lost any faith in hurting anyone when I carry a locus----with my AV grenades I could help the team so much more).
I am able to finally make some fruitful kills with a locus (may be temporary success, because there's a significant population of players who never visit the website--and don't know that the little red-pumpkin can now reach out and bite you).
...Although,.. I'm still bouncing half my locus nades off the ceiling soffit, or running forward too early, and blowing myself up (...I really must stop doing that to myself. I have to try to stop).
And as a DS operator, I must say that the Swarmers impact REALLY DOES feel right, now. The shifting of your vehicle is lessened enough that it seems perfectly mated to the sound effect and the controller rumble intensity---all three come together really well and united.
Still a threat, still forcing you to have to decide to leave (which is what it's supposed to do)... but now I still have the CONTROL to leave, instead of losing precious seconds balancing the dropship before I can generate enough momentum to start evading volley #2, 3, and 4 The outcome feels like it's more up to me now, and not up to physics that we can't overcome.
So far, I find the Hotfix quite adaptable to, and a nice improvement. Thumbs up, and we'll see YOU, "At the Movies".
Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne...
No story can have life without writers and publishers.
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Aderek
Made in Poland...
E-R-A
214
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 07:30:00 -
[875] - Quote
We still cant see anybody on chat after enter to bark/battle (and cant inv to squad from chat)
We still have battles 1 vs 12 (today morning ambush mode, i was this one)
We still cant change a squad leader in battle
We still must wait for texture load before we can drive lav (ex. start battle, call LAV, enter, run fast and BLOW UP, because you hit into invisible wall, if i will wait, this wall disappear)
We still get STD stuff from strong boxes
We still play this game and wait for some new :)
dust514.pl, wcogram.pl, i-play24.net
MM proto logi
80 kk SP and growing
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Yoda Boss
Dem Durrty Boyz
313
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 17:46:00 -
[876] - Quote
things we can trade:
All Militia BPO's
All Standard Dropsuit BPO'S
So we are able to trade all standard DROPSUIT bpo's but not Templar?
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒGû¬.°n+í¤GÿåGùÅ.° GÖñGÖíTrade/saleGÖºGÖñ
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justinsane16
Mcalpines Fusiliers
7
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 21:03:00 -
[877] - Quote
Why did Minmatar and Caldari Scouts not get the shield recharge time buff? |
XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 21:08:00 -
[878] - Quote
justinsane16 wrote:Why did Minmatar and Caldari Scouts not get the shield recharge time buff?
Because CCP hates scouts.
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
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justinsane16
Mcalpines Fusiliers
8
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 21:49:00 -
[879] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:justinsane16 wrote:Why did Minmatar and Caldari Scouts not get the shield recharge time buff? Because CCP hates scouts.
Sometimes I think so too...
Their bonus is wasted making cloaks for them only, not actually making the cloaks themselves better.
They are so easily killed yet to be efficient they need to at least use advanced, costing 40-50k each, the same as other advanced suits but no less harder to kill than the basic.
The cloak(see point above) was made useless by being nerfed several times, First by making it stand out so much that in certain maps and moods, you stand out more by being cloaked than not cloaked. Second, by the delay that been no longer necessary for a very long time, which for some reason still applies even if you are not cloaked and switched to your weapon(or equipment?). Third, by its sheer insanely high cpu and pg cost for a single equipment(even for a scout with full buffs)
And now they have been nerfed again relative to nearly all other suits by not getting the bonus other shield suits get, and Galente getting a buff.
I simply have to give up on my Min scout now, its simply unplayable and frustrating. |
XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 21:51:00 -
[880] - Quote
justinsane16 wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:justinsane16 wrote:Why did Minmatar and Caldari Scouts not get the shield recharge time buff? Because CCP hates scouts. Sometimes I think so too... Their bonus is wasted making cloaks for them only, not actually making the cloaks themselves better. They are so easily killed yet to be efficient they need to at least use advanced, costing 40-50k each, the same as other advanced suits but no less harder to kill than the basic. The cloak(see point above) was made useless by being nerfed several times, First by making it stand out so much that in certain maps and moods, you stand out more by being cloaked than not cloaked. Second, by the delay that been no longer necessary for a very long time, which for some reason still applies even if you are not cloaked and switched to your weapon(or equipment?). Third, by its sheer insanely high cpu and pg cost for a single equipment(even for a scout with full buffs) And now they have been nerfed again relative to nearly all other suits by not getting the bonus other shield suits get, and Galente getting a buff. I simply have to give up on my Min scout now, its simply unplayable and frustrating.
You should post your thoughts in The Barborshop
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
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Cloak Dog
Horizons' Edge
584
|
Posted - 2015.10.15 22:48:00 -
[881] - Quote
justinsane16 wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:justinsane16 wrote:Why did Minmatar and Caldari Scouts not get the shield recharge time buff? Because CCP hates scouts. Sometimes I think so too... Their bonus is wasted making cloaks for them only, not actually making the cloaks themselves better. They are so easily killed yet to be efficient they need to at least use advanced, costing 40-50k each, the same as other advanced suits but no less harder to kill than the basic. The cloak(see point above) was made useless by being nerfed several times, First by making it stand out so much that in certain maps and moods, you stand out more by being cloaked than not cloaked. Second, by the delay that been no longer necessary for a very long time, which for some reason still applies even if you are not cloaked and switched to your weapon(or equipment?). Third, by its sheer insanely high cpu and pg cost for a single equipment(even for a scout with full buffs) And now they have been nerfed again relative to nearly all other suits by not getting the bonus other shield suits get, and Galente getting a buff. I simply have to give up on my Min scout now, its simply unplayable and frustrating.
Wanna know somethin funny? I made this alt, that of which I use primarily, after they stopped nerfing the cloak field.
I still use it. Not just cause its in my name, but because Its perfect where it is. Its not op in the hands of a noob, and its not something a pro can use with ease.
You need actual skills to use a cloak. Not just Skill Points. :P
I'm more bark then bite...sometimes...
BRUH
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justinsane16
Mcalpines Fusiliers
9
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 17:00:00 -
[882] - Quote
Cloak Dog wrote:justinsane16 wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:justinsane16 wrote:Why did Minmatar and Caldari Scouts not get the shield recharge time buff? Because CCP hates scouts. Sometimes I think so too... Their bonus is wasted making cloaks for them only, not actually making the cloaks themselves better. They are so easily killed yet to be efficient they need to at least use advanced, costing 40-50k each, the same as other advanced suits but no less harder to kill than the basic. The cloak(see point above) was made useless by being nerfed several times, First by making it stand out so much that in certain maps and moods, you stand out more by being cloaked than not cloaked. Second, by the delay that been no longer necessary for a very long time, which for some reason still applies even if you are not cloaked and switched to your weapon(or equipment?). Third, by its sheer insanely high cpu and pg cost for a single equipment(even for a scout with full buffs) And now they have been nerfed again relative to nearly all other suits by not getting the bonus other shield suits get, and Galente getting a buff. I simply have to give up on my Min scout now, its simply unplayable and frustrating. Wanna know somethin funny? I made this alt, that of which I use primarily, after they stopped nerfing the cloak field. I still use it. Not just cause its in my name, but because Its perfect where it is. Its not op in the hands of a noob, and its not something a pro can use with ease. You need actual skills to use a cloak. Not just Skill Points. :P
No other class in the game requires such an amount of luck and skill than a scout with a cloak, its simply not comparable. Players should not be forced to avoid scouting because they simply aren't above average in skill. It should be accessable to everyone.
Now that said, I don't consider myself without skill, yet I still find myself far more frustrated scouting than when using assualt, logi or heavy.
The cloak was a great idea turned bad by the devs' laziness in balancing it. They hacked a bunch of patches together all at once, screwing it up completely. There cannot be anyone that says that delay was the correct approach to ensuring people can't uncloak then attack immediately. The devs themselves even said this was all they could do at the time, yet they have made no attempt to rectify it since.
Back to the point though, as I deviated so much.
justinsane16 wrote:Why did Minmatar and Caldari Scouts not get the shield recharge time buff? |
Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
985
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 17:22:00 -
[883] - Quote
Wow, how does being invisible and unscanable require any form of skill???
Being squishy and easy to kill is the trade-off for having the best ewar, and fastest suits as well as the ability to be invisible
Wanna play eve?
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XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 17:24:00 -
[884] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Wow, how does being invisible and unscanable require any form of skill???
Being squishy and easy to kill is the trade-off for having the best ewar, and fastest suits as well as the ability to be invisible
It is obvious you don't play scout. Scouting requires the most skill of any role, with logis being a close second.
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
|
Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
986
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 17:31:00 -
[885] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Wow, how does being invisible and unscanable require any form of skill???
Being squishy and easy to kill is the trade-off for having the best ewar, and fastest suits as well as the ability to be invisible It is obvious you don't play scout. Scouting requires the most skill of any role, with logis being a close second.
No, scouts do not take the most skill. Being undetectable and running around people is not skill, hacking objectives is not a skill. Now unless I've missed something, and please tell me if I have, scouting takes the same amount of skill as almost every other role in the game.
Being easier to kill does not mean that it takes more skill to not die, all you have to do is pick your engagements and run when required. I know this because I have done it.
Wanna play eve?
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justinsane16
Mcalpines Fusiliers
10
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 17:32:00 -
[886] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Wow, how does being invisible and unscanable require any form of skill???
Being squishy and easy to kill is the trade-off for having the best ewar, and fastest suits as well as the ability to be invisible
As I said earlier, due to the changes in the cloak, often you are not invisible, as the colour of the clone while cloaked is quite obvious while moving in certain maps and certain moods, as in, more obvious than if you had a dark skin rather than being cloaked. Also, due to the delay, you cannot be as flexible as you like because it affects you under all circumstances, not just going from cloaked to a weapon/equipment.
The cloak takes up your suit type bonus for no good reason, and still costs a lot in PG and CPU relative to all virtually all other items.
Also, can you leave the derogatory attitude out please.
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Megaman Trigger
OSG Planetary Operations
860
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 17:34:00 -
[887] - Quote
justinsane16 wrote:Why did Minmatar and Caldari Scouts not get the shield recharge time buff?
For the same reason CalSents didn't get a buff; they were the baseline for the change. CalScout was at one end and CalSent at the other, everything in between was brought in line with them.
Purifier. First Class.
|
XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 17:37:00 -
[888] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Wow, how does being invisible and unscanable require any form of skill???
Being squishy and easy to kill is the trade-off for having the best ewar, and fastest suits as well as the ability to be invisible It is obvious you don't play scout. Scouting requires the most skill of any role, with logis being a close second. No, scouts do not take the most skill. Being undetectable and running around people is not skill, hacking objectives is not a skill. Now unless I've missed something, and please tell me if I have, scouting takes the same amount of skill as almost every other role in the game. Being easier to kill does not mean that it takes more skill to not die, all you have to do is pick your engagements and run when required. I know this because I have done it.
I will type a more detailed response to this when I am on a computer, but for now I revert to my original statement.
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
|
justinsane16
Mcalpines Fusiliers
11
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 17:53:00 -
[889] - Quote
Megaman Trigger wrote:justinsane16 wrote:Why did Minmatar and Caldari Scouts not get the shield recharge time buff? For the same reason CalSents didn't get a buff; they were the baseline for the change. CalScout was at one end and CalSent at the other, everything in between was brought in line with them.
Thanks for the answer |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
17
|
Posted - 2015.10.16 17:58:00 -
[890] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:justinsane16 wrote:Why did Minmatar and Caldari Scouts not get the shield recharge time buff? Because CCP CPM2 hates scouts.
FTFY
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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Cloak Dog
Horizons' Edge
584
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Posted - 2015.10.16 22:56:00 -
[891] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Wow, how does being invisible and unscanable require any form of skill???
Being squishy and easy to kill is the trade-off for having the best ewar, and fastest suits as well as the ability to be invisible
Yep.
One accidental mass driver trigger pull could end with you 50 points richer. Its happened so many times.
I'm more bark then bite...sometimes...
BRUH
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
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Posted - 2015.10.17 00:26:00 -
[892] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:justinsane16 wrote:Why did Minmatar and Caldari Scouts not get the shield recharge time buff? Because CCP CPM2 hates scouts. FTFY
If I recall the caldari scout depleted got cut in half. I thought it was 6 seconds before? Don't remember base recharge delay.
The sentinel was the one that got zero change to shield regen stats at all
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
17
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Posted - 2015.10.17 00:35:00 -
[893] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Adipem Nothi wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:justinsane16 wrote:Why did Minmatar and Caldari Scouts not get the shield recharge time buff? Because CCP CPM2 hates scouts. FTFY If I recall the caldari scout depleted got cut in half. I thought it was 6 seconds before? Don't remember base recharge delay.
Hmmm (?). I was going by Rattati's sheet on page one of this thread. My understanding was that the only change to the CalScout was to damage threshold. That's the only change noted on his spreadsheet.
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 00:48:00 -
[894] - Quote
The spreadsheet i linked in the cpm show 'n tell thing had the shield changes. If I recall that was copied directly.
Depleted delays were tied to escape speeds (sentinels can't really flee so their depleted is lowest).
But light suits (yes, scouts) should have been cal 3, min 4, gal 5, and am 6 for depleted. Check in game to verify.
Medium suits should have been cal 2, min 3, gal 4, am 5
Sentinels and LoLmandos should be cal 1, min 2, gal 3, am 4
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 01:09:00 -
[895] - Quote
Rattati's sheet has the depleted delay changes in the shields tab, the small section at the bottom with light medium and heavy notations.
That's the depleted delay section. It was done by suit size, not by class.
That was denoting ALL light, medium and heavy suits. Those are NOT frame only changes.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
17
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 02:32:00 -
[896] - Quote
Thanks, Breakin. I stand corrected. Looks like CalScout Depleted Recharge Delay was improved by 1 second. Protofits still has the old values:
Pre-Foxfour CalScout
50 HP/s - Recharge Rate (no change w/foxfour)
3 seconds - Recharge Delay (no change w/foxfour)
4 seconds - Deplete Recharge Delay (1 second buff w/foxfour)
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 02:51:00 -
[897] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Thanks, Breakin. I stand corrected. Looks like CalScout Depleted Recharge Delay was improved by 1 second. Protofits still has the old values:
Pre-Foxfour CalScout
50 HP/s - Recharge Rate (no change w/foxfour)
3 seconds - Recharge Delay (no change w/foxfour)
4 seconds - Deplete Recharge Delay (1 second buff w/foxfour)
What about the Minmatar Scout, I recall that receiving a buff, thought I cannot remember the exact numbers.
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
11
|
Posted - 2015.10.17 04:37:00 -
[898] - Quote
Adipem Nothi wrote:Thanks, Breakin. I stand corrected. Looks like CalScout Depleted Recharge Delay was improved by 1 second. Protofits still has the old values:
Pre-Foxfour CalScout
50 HP/s - Recharge Rate (no change w/foxfour)
3 seconds - Recharge Delay (no change w/foxfour)
4 seconds - Deplete Recharge Delay (1 second buff w/foxfour)
No problem.
WoW has taught me that Purple means Legendary. This means Quafe suits are the optimal loadout for killing all of you.
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KEROSIINI-TERO
The Rainbow Effect
2
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 01:58:00 -
[899] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Wow, how does being invisible and unscanable require any form of skill???
Being squishy and easy to kill is the trade-off for having the best ewar, and fastest suits as well as the ability to be invisible
The worst is if you can know for sure and count on that you are absolutely unscannable.
The balance should be that if both the stealther and scanner both do the extreme sacrifices, the scanner should barely win.
KERO-TRADER is my official Eve character for Dust trading.
Search "KEROBPO" for list of bpos for sale.
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Samantha Hunyz
PIanet Express
Damage LLC
235
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 04:00:00 -
[900] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Wow, how does being invisible and unscanable require any form of skill???
Being squishy and easy to kill is the trade-off for having the best ewar, and fastest suits as well as the ability to be invisible The worst is if you can know for sure and count on that you are absolutely unscannable. The balance should be that if both the stealther and scanner both do the extreme sacrifices, the scanner should barely win.
Hmm sacrifice. That is a good point. I agree that the bigger sacrifice should win, but not in the area that you presume.
Thinking about what you said just proved to me you don't think things through otherwise you would have saw the glaring hole in your glass straw argument you have brought up.
For starters, fitting a scanner does not affect your survivability what so ever. It does not make you sacrifice either hp or hp recovery rates. Dampeners do. Even a cal or min scout has to decide how much of hp and hp recovery they give up to not be scanned. Even still, being spotted cloaked or uncloaked is a death sentence to a few rounds from an aim assisted weapon, sidearms included.
Now we need to look into the slot count to be unscanned vs scans. I damp will get most scouts by for the most part, but precision mods, proto scanners, and line of sight negates the module outright. At 2 damps (and the isk cost of both) shield or armour based suits both give up alot of hp and hp recovery dramatically. Getting shot by a stray round could be death. That is part of it too, complex dampeners are the only viable source to offset any form of scan. basic and adv do not gain any net worth over the hp and hp recovery.
At the end of the day, your argument is based on a glass straw hat theory. The scout gives up survivability. The active scanner allows you to live easier.
When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
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Shaun Iwairo
DUST University
Ivy League
220
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 04:10:00 -
[901] - Quote
Glass straw hat ye gads.
I think the term you're looking for is straw-man
Something is killing new player retention.
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Samantha Hunyz
PIanet Express
Damage LLC
237
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 04:12:00 -
[902] - Quote
Shaun Iwairo wrote:Glass straw hat ye gads.
I think the term you're looking for is straw-man
nope, don't need no man, you were ill informed.
When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
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Shaun Iwairo
DUST University
Ivy League
223
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 04:17:00 -
[903] - Quote
Glass cannon then? wtf is a glass straw hat?
Something is killing new player retention.
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XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 04:18:00 -
[904] - Quote
Shaun Iwairo wrote:Glass cannon then? wtf is a glass straw hat?
I'm thinking tinfoil hat.
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
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Samantha Hunyz
PIanet Express
Damage LLC
239
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 04:21:00 -
[905] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Shaun Iwairo wrote:Glass cannon then? wtf is a glass straw hat? I'm thinking tinfoil hat.
What he said
When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
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Shaun Iwairo
DUST University
Ivy League
223
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 04:22:00 -
[906] - Quote
Who? Me or Blaze? I MUST KNOW FOR SURE!
Something is killing new player retention.
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Samantha Hunyz
PIanet Express
Damage LLC
239
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 04:22:00 -
[907] - Quote
Shaun Iwairo wrote:Who? Me or Blaze? I MUST KNOW FOR SURE! Exactly
When I look down my scope, all I see are dead people.
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XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 04:23:00 -
[908] - Quote
Shaun Iwairo wrote:Who? Me or Blaze? I MUST KNOW FOR SURE!
yes
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 14:52:00 -
[909] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Wow, how does being invisible and unscanable require any form of skill???
Being squishy and easy to kill is the trade-off for having the best ewar, and fastest suits as well as the ability to be invisible The worst is if you can know for sure and count on that you are absolutely unscannable. The balance should be that if both the stealther and scanner both do the extreme sacrifices, the scanner should barely win.
It impossible to be completely unscannable.
It is possible to be mostly invisible, save for a slight blurring and the red reticle, for a limited amount of time if you stand still, unarmed. Providing you aren't scanned. Is it easy to use such a state to be effective on the battlefield? Sometimes, yes. Most of the time, no.
And how would knowing for sure you are unscannable make any difference?
Not being scanned is a prerequisite of stealth gameplay. To use stealth you assume you won't be scanned. If you do get scanned, stealth goes out of the window. The chance of being scanned doesn't affect how you play if you are using a suit that relies on stealth. |
Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 16:07:00 -
[910] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Wow, how does being invisible and unscanable require any form of skill???
Being squishy and easy to kill is the trade-off for having the best ewar, and fastest suits as well as the ability to be invisible The worst is if you can know for sure and count on that you are absolutely unscannable. The balance should be that if both the stealther and scanner both do the extreme sacrifices, the scanner should barely win. It impossible to be completely unscannable. It is possible to be mostly invisible, save for a slight blurring and the red reticle, for a limited amount of time if you stand still, unarmed. Providing you aren't scanned. Is it easy to use such a state to be effective on the battlefield? Sometimes, yes. Most of the time, no. And how would knowing for sure you are unscannable make any difference? Not being scanned is a prerequisite of stealth gameplay. To use stealth you assume you won't be scanned. If you do get scanned, stealth goes out of the window. The chance of being scanned doesn't affect how you play if you are using a suit that relies on stealth.
it isn't impossible. 3 damps gets you below 15Db on a gal scout and around 17-18db on every other scout.
The only suit picking them scouts up is a gal logi with focused scans which lets face it, aren't that great. Hell nerf the gal logi so that the scan is 20% more precise instead of 25% which would mean scouts would only need 2 damps to get under regular proto scans, and 3 makes you unscannable.
If the focused scanner then had a fitting adjustment so it isn't a nightmare to fit and slightly more up time this would make it more useful than it is currently. This way you know what is scanning you if you have 2 damps and switching to a suit with 3 damps means invisible.
Wanna play eve?
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XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 16:37:00 -
[911] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Wow, how does being invisible and unscanable require any form of skill???
Being squishy and easy to kill is the trade-off for having the best ewar, and fastest suits as well as the ability to be invisible The worst is if you can know for sure and count on that you are absolutely unscannable. The balance should be that if both the stealther and scanner both do the extreme sacrifices, the scanner should barely win. It impossible to be completely unscannable. It is possible to be mostly invisible, save for a slight blurring and the red reticle, for a limited amount of time if you stand still, unarmed. Providing you aren't scanned. Is it easy to use such a state to be effective on the battlefield? Sometimes, yes. Most of the time, no. And how would knowing for sure you are unscannable make any difference? Not being scanned is a prerequisite of stealth gameplay. To use stealth you assume you won't be scanned. If you do get scanned, stealth goes out of the window. The chance of being scanned doesn't affect how you play if you are using a suit that relies on stealth. it isn't impossible. 3 damps gets you below 15Db on a gal scout and around 17-18db on every other scout. The only suit picking them scouts up is a gal logi with focused scans which lets face it, aren't that great. Hell nerf the gal logi so that the scan is 20% more precise instead of 25% which would mean scouts would only need 2 damps to get under regular proto scans, and 3 makes you unscannable. If the focused scanner then had a fitting adjustment so it isn't a nightmare to fit and slightly more up time this would make it more useful than it is currently. This way you know what is scanning you if you have 2 damps and switching to a suit with 3 damps means invisible.
I don't know about you, but even a min scout with 3 complex damps doesn't let you avoid gal logi focused scans. And running 2 damps with 3 low slots really affects your survivability and utility, because when you don't run damps on a scout, the only thing you see is "YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED"
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
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Echo 1991
Titans of Phoenix
Damage LLC
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 16:45:00 -
[912] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Wow, how does being invisible and unscanable require any form of skill???
Being squishy and easy to kill is the trade-off for having the best ewar, and fastest suits as well as the ability to be invisible The worst is if you can know for sure and count on that you are absolutely unscannable. The balance should be that if both the stealther and scanner both do the extreme sacrifices, the scanner should barely win. It impossible to be completely unscannable. It is possible to be mostly invisible, save for a slight blurring and the red reticle, for a limited amount of time if you stand still, unarmed. Providing you aren't scanned. Is it easy to use such a state to be effective on the battlefield? Sometimes, yes. Most of the time, no. And how would knowing for sure you are unscannable make any difference? Not being scanned is a prerequisite of stealth gameplay. To use stealth you assume you won't be scanned. If you do get scanned, stealth goes out of the window. The chance of being scanned doesn't affect how you play if you are using a suit that relies on stealth. it isn't impossible. 3 damps gets you below 15Db on a gal scout and around 17-18db on every other scout. The only suit picking them scouts up is a gal logi with focused scans which lets face it, aren't that great. Hell nerf the gal logi so that the scan is 20% more precise instead of 25% which would mean scouts would only need 2 damps to get under regular proto scans, and 3 makes you unscannable. If the focused scanner then had a fitting adjustment so it isn't a nightmare to fit and slightly more up time this would make it more useful than it is currently. This way you know what is scanning you if you have 2 damps and switching to a suit with 3 damps means invisible. I don't know about you, but even a min scout with 3 complex damps doesn't let you avoid gal logi focused scans. And running 2 damps with 3 low slots really affects your survivability and utility, because when you don't run damps on a scout, the only thing you see is "YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED"
Which is why I suggest that the Gal Logi receives a small nerf so that it only requires 2 damps to avoid all but the focused scanner.
Wanna play eve?
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XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 16:46:00 -
[913] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Echo 1991 wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:
The worst is if you can know for sure and count on that you are absolutely unscannable.
The balance should be that if both the stealther and scanner both do the extreme sacrifices, the scanner should barely win.
It impossible to be completely unscannable. It is possible to be mostly invisible, save for a slight blurring and the red reticle, for a limited amount of time if you stand still, unarmed. Providing you aren't scanned. Is it easy to use such a state to be effective on the battlefield? Sometimes, yes. Most of the time, no. And how would knowing for sure you are unscannable make any difference? Not being scanned is a prerequisite of stealth gameplay. To use stealth you assume you won't be scanned. If you do get scanned, stealth goes out of the window. The chance of being scanned doesn't affect how you play if you are using a suit that relies on stealth. it isn't impossible. 3 damps gets you below 15Db on a gal scout and around 17-18db on every other scout. The only suit picking them scouts up is a gal logi with focused scans which lets face it, aren't that great. Hell nerf the gal logi so that the scan is 20% more precise instead of 25% which would mean scouts would only need 2 damps to get under regular proto scans, and 3 makes you unscannable. If the focused scanner then had a fitting adjustment so it isn't a nightmare to fit and slightly more up time this would make it more useful than it is currently. This way you know what is scanning you if you have 2 damps and switching to a suit with 3 damps means invisible. I don't know about you, but even a min scout with 3 complex damps doesn't let you avoid gal logi focused scans. And running 2 damps with 3 low slots really affects your survivability and utility, because when you don't run damps on a scout, the only thing you see is "YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED" Which is why I suggest that the Gal Logi receives a small nerf so that it only requires 2 damps to avoid all but the focused scanner.
Oh.
I see. Disregard anything I ever said.
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 17:03:00 -
[914] - Quote
Yes, it is possible to hide from active scans, but not all passives.
The lowest possible profile is 11, I believe (Gal scout, 4 comp damps, active proto cloak). This can be scanned by an assault or logi with 3 precision enhancers, a Gal scout with 2, or an Amarr scout with 1. |
Regnier Feros
Dead Man's Game
962
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 17:17:00 -
[915] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Yes, it is possible to hide from active scans, but not all passives.
The lowest possible profile is 11, I believe (Gal scout, 4 comp damps, active proto cloak). This can be scanned by an assault or logi with 3 precision enhancers, a Gal scout with 2, or an Amarr scout with 1.
What?
My am scout with 2 Cpx Precs has 18 db ._.
I LIKE PIE
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XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 17:25:00 -
[916] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:Yes, it is possible to hide from active scans, but not all passives.
The lowest possible profile is 11, I believe (Gal scout, 4 comp damps, active proto cloak). This can be scanned by an assault or logi with 3 precision enhancers, a Gal scout with 2, or an Amarr scout with 1.
You can go lower with the Scotsman's gk.0
Director of Pure Evil.
Pure Evil. is mass recruiting, apply today and join a war of the Bleeding Sun vs everyone!
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Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 18:04:00 -
[917] - Quote
Regnier Feros wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:Yes, it is possible to hide from active scans, but not all passives.
The lowest possible profile is 11, I believe (Gal scout, 4 comp damps, active proto cloak). This can be scanned by an assault or logi with 3 precision enhancers, a Gal scout with 2, or an Amarr scout with 1. What? My am scout with 2 Cpx Precs has 18 db ._. My logi/assault with 3 Cpx Precs has 24 db ._. I'm lost :(
I'm talking about short range scans. They may not be terribly practical, but I was replying to someone who was talking about being "absolutely unscannable".
It's also worth noting that scout mostly fight at close range. This is backed up by the fact that all PC kills on Rattati's recent stat sheet from scouts were performed using shotguns or knives. There were not enough scout rifle kills to even register on the stats. |
Varoth Drac
Dead Man's Game
1
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 18:22:00 -
[918] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:Yes, it is possible to hide from active scans, but not all passives.
The lowest possible profile is 11, I believe (Gal scout, 4 comp damps, active proto cloak). This can be scanned by an assault or logi with 3 precision enhancers, a Gal scout with 2, or an Amarr scout with 1. You can go lower with the Scotsman's gk.0
I don't think so. A Scotsman's minimum profile would still be 11db I think. |
Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
17
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 19:51:00 -
[919] - Quote
Regnier Feros wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:Yes, it is possible to hide from active scans, but not all passives.
The lowest possible profile is 11, I believe (Gal scout, 4 comp damps, active proto cloak). This can be scanned by an assault or logi with 3 precision enhancers, a Gal scout with 2, or an Amarr scout with 1. What? My am scout with 2 Cpx Precs has 18 db ._. My logi/assault with 3 Cpx Precs has 24 db ._. I'm lost :(
Above AM Scout: 9dB short-range precision
Above MedFrame: 12dB short-range precision
A GalScout running 4 complex damps has a profile of 13dB. The vast majority of GalScouts run 1 complex damp for a profile of 20dB (sufficient to beat 21dB active scans); these units can be active scanned by Focused Scanner; they are also passive scanned (which is shared squad-wide) while within SG or NK range of any Light or Medium Frame (no precision enhancers needed) as well as any Heavy Frame running 1 precision enhancer.
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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XxBlazikenxX
Pure Evil.
Bleeding Sun Conglomerate
3
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 23:09:00 -
[920] - Quote
Varoth Drac wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:Varoth Drac wrote:Yes, it is possible to hide from active scans, but not all passives.
The lowest possible profile is 11, I believe (Gal scout, 4 comp damps, active proto cloak). This can be scanned by an assault or logi with 3 precision enhancers, a Gal scout with 2, or an Amarr scout with 1. You can go lower with the Scotsman's gk.0 I don't think so. A Scotsman's minimum profile would still be 11db I think.
With all skills maxed and 5 comp damapeners, I think it is around 9-10.
Director of Pure Evil.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
17
|
Posted - 2015.10.21 23:23:00 -
[921] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:
With all skills maxed and 5 comp damapeners, I think it is around 9-10.
I'm not sure why you're hung up on this point, Blaze.
Either way, here's the maths:
Absolute Lowest Profile: Scotsman's Scout gk.0
27dB - Max Skill, Base Profile (24dB proto cloaked)
20dB - Complex Damp (1) (18dB proto cloaked)
16dB - Complex Damp (2) (14dB proto cloaked)
13dB - Complex Damp (3) (12dB proto cloaked)
13dB - Complex Damp (4) (11dB proto cloaked)
12dB - Complex Damp (5) (11dB proto cloaked)
Fun Fact: According to protofits (which last I checked had up-to-date EWAR values), the 5th complex dampener reduces profile by 2.65%.
Dropsuit Usage Rates
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deadpool lifetone
D3ATH CARD
RUST415
75
|
Posted - 2015.10.26 20:07:00 -
[922] - Quote
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:Soraya, when the hotfix goes live, grab your mouse and keyboard and get on Dust. After playing that way, try a controller. Once you've experienced the changes using both control setups, then come back and form an argument based on experience rather than hypotheses. Both Rattati and the CPM have already done the hypothesizing. Now it's time to evaluate the changes in a live environment, and work from there.
So that's how these bone head pecker heads have perfect aim assist . smh Keyboards & Mouse lol I would Always wonder how come they never miss a shot . lol thanks for the heads up .
( F U!!!! ) * ( Why Dead? )
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(n+Æn+Çn+¢´)GÇón++pâçGòÉS+ÇX - - - - n++(º Gûí º l|l)/
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