DUST Search - [Feedback] Hotfix FoxFour

Thaddeus Reynolds wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

Stefan Stahl wrote:

Kallas Hallytyr wrote:

@Stefan: I also think the turning changes are a step in the right direction, they let you artificially increase the distance Swarms have to travel, which helps you actually leave the fight.

I do think Swarms need the variants looked at: having the base SL function like a 'Breach' with high damage but longish lock-on times (for HAV work) and the Assault having lower damage (probably a little lower than the current SL) but with longer lock range, faster lock-on and more shots in the clip.

That would go a long way towards solving SL balance by making them actually balance-capable, instead of OP vs one and UP vs the other.

I'm receptive to the idea of separating SLs into long and short range versions. However I advise against separating them too far for several reasons. Most importantly, once we get into a territory where the two variants are separated into "anti-DS SL" and "anti-HAV SL" the utility of each individual SL will be greatly reduced.

It's a good idea to have one SL that does long range supressive damage to both DS and HAV and a short range SL that can kill HAVs and forces DS to immediately flee out of range. But the long range SL needs to be able to deter an HAV that is rolling up to your face and the short range SL needs to be able to keep a DS away. Otherwise people won't use either of them unless they perform so well at their respective jobs that it'll be an unfair fight for the HAV or DS pilots.

would love to have these thoughts spelled out in actual before and after numbers per each swarm variant.

Question for theorycrafting...can missile speed and/or flight range be adjusted between variants? or just lock range?

"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


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CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 26	Posted - 2015.09.24 10:13:00 - [1] - Quote Dear players, We have been hard at work, and especially our new CPM, diligently running feedback threads and collecting community thoughts. They proposed a "Top Priorities" list, based on that and my own thoughts, we have a new Hotfix planned out. Now is the time to give us good feedback, but again, a lot of it has been sourced already and we are quite happy with the numbers. If you want to know more about the CPM process, just ask them, they are always around. On top of that I do have my own ideas, and then we had the 23 pages of "Propose one change for the next Hotfix" thread. I actually typed every single idea from that list, and gave it a rating. I will need to clean it up and share it, because in its current state, it's rated R or 18. Now to the changes, found here: Shield Tanking We are taking a major step towards a balance between Armor and Shield tanking with this new Hotfix, radically strengthing the shield recharge rates, recharge delays and damage thresholds of Caldari and Minmatar Dropsuits. We also reduced the CPU cost of Shield Regulators by almost 20%t to top it off. HAV/AV Balance There is a logical thread through this that needs to be explained. We have talked about HAV vs AV balancing for an eternity it seems. The situation is simply 1.Gallente HAVs are very strong due to Hardener/Repair combo 2.Caldari HAVs are not strong enough comparatively 3.Dropships are ok, Caldari need a PG buff (not in this hotfix) but Swarms are too strong 4.Dedicated AV in the form of a Minmando with Swarms or otherwise, can definitely suppress HAVs and area deny Dropships, but rarely destroy vehicles. So instead of trying to tweak our way out of this, I propose a radical skill-based solution. Simply increasing the weak spot on HAVs considerably will allow dedicated AV and other vehicles to use positioning, speed and skill to heavily change the outcome of each encounter without having an effect on Dropships. Secondly, changing the Swarm Launcher profile to be a new Explosive GÇô Missile, and granting the damage bonus to the Caldari Commando, and leaving Minmatar Commandos with Explosive GÇô Explosives (both have a +20% Armor/-20% Shield damage profile. Thirdly, changing all Explosive Weapons to deal full damage to HAVs, making the Breach Mass Driver a potent AV weapon in the hands of a Minmatar Commando. Same thing for Assault HMGGÇÖs and Nova Knifes. All this extra damage potential towards HAVs is met with a strong buff for Caldari HAVs in the form of increased recharge rates and decreased recharge delays. The Gallente HAVs are strong enough to deal with it. Finally, reducing the Swarm Launcher lock-on range, hit impact and turning radius should improve the quality of life of Dropship users, and somewhat for HAVs. Rifles The range discrepancy has made it very difficult to align the purpose and behavior of the fully-automatic rifles. They will therefore all be brought considerably closer to each other, with the Gallente Assault Rifle unchanged. Scrambler Rifle capability to hold a charge and follow up with multiple accurate hip fire shots is too strong. We are increasing the heat cost of the charge, and thereby reducing the number of follow up shots. The difference should be around 4 shots for a fully skilled Amarr Assault, more for non-skilled users. The movement speed while holding the charge is also reduced by 20%, similar to the Forge Gun. The Assault Scrambler Rifle is also a little too strong, especially against shields, and we will just increase the heat a little to bring the damage output down to where the other rifles are on the curve. The Gallente Assault Rifle family is fairly underpowered to the rest of them, not statistically per se, but due to other Assault Dropsuits having better Skill bonuses. ThatGÇÖs why we are introducing a very strong bonus into the form of a ROF bonus for Gallente Assault Dropsuits. Players have been clamoring for a better Caldari bonus as well, and that is being added as a Kick/Recoil reduction for Rail Rifles. Other Weapons Breach Shotguns get a Clip and Ammo Buff, as do Burst Scrambler Pistols. Bolt Pistol ROF is reduced but Assault SMGs, Assault Scramblers and Scrambler Pistols get a ROF buff. MagSec gets a healthy damage buff and a charge time reduction. Small Blaster given a robust Splash radius buff to help with Anti Infantry work, especially from the skies, but also from HAVs/LAVs. Locus Grenade damage progression made Standard and Advanced grenades fairly useless, so we are going to have the same damage for all tiears, with increasing radius per tier. We are also fixing the Packed Locus and buffing the Fused Grenades considerably. Modules We wanted to improve the Biotics family so are reducing the PG cost of the KinCats, buffing the Cardiac Regulator. We normalized the Myofib damage bonus but increased base Melee damage on all dropsuits to make up for it. ThatGÇÖs it for now, go ahead and comment on these changes, that look like they will stir up the meta quite a lot. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 26	Posted - 2015.09.24 11:29:00 - [2] - Quote Francois Sanchez wrote: A few things worry me : The gal RoF bonus seems too good, and keep in mind it will buff variants such as the breach and the tactical that don't need a buff. It will also buff shotguns. Reducing turn radius of swarm is actually a buff, it allows you to shoot around corners. I can't count the number of times a vehicle tried to escape behind something and my swarms turned so quickly they hit the obstacle. With reduced turn radius they'll get around and hit the vehicule. Range nerf to ACR... Why? It already performs poorly after 50m Magsec buff is a bit too much, half the damage buff would seem more adapted I like the rest breach, burst and tactical all perform worse than the rest. The whole Gallente Rifle family needs a buff. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 26	Posted - 2015.09.24 15:33:00 - [3] - Quote Jadek Menaheim wrote: Zaria Min Deir wrote: Jadek Menaheim wrote: Correction: It's listed as melee in the excel doc...Rattati? Do you mean I can punch a tank now? I sure hope so, purely for the hilarity that will ensue. Is that why Commando Melee damage is being brought down substantially (from 1230hp to 750-ish)? If you managed your stamina properly for an engagement (and holding a sidearm or equipment) you could hit two times per second = 2460hp DPS. Which I could see adding up quickly against tanks if you managed to stand on top of it (which would prevent your death upon explosion). I may have screwed up the commando melee damage. Can you remind me what the base was. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 26	Posted - 2015.09.24 15:36:00 - [4] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Plasma Cannon doesn't get the weakpoint modifier that the Forge Gun gets? Ratatouille plz Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 26	Posted - 2015.09.24 15:45:00 - [5] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: 4.Dedicated AV in the form of a Minmando with Swarms or otherwise, can definitely suppress HAVs and area deny Dropships, but rarely destroy vehicles. So this is a huge problem. And... CCP Rattati wrote: Finally, reducing the Swarm Launcher lock-on range, hit impact and turning radius should improve the quality of life of Dropship users, and somewhat for HAVs. This doesn't fix it, this exacerbates it. Breakin, I am disappoint. please read the whole thing. Overall a massive buff for dedicated AV, both infantry and vehicle. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 26	Posted - 2015.09.24 15:49:00 - [6] - Quote Asad Thahab-Jabal wrote: Rattati, Is the new Gallente and Caldari dropsuit command bonuses replacing the current bonuses? Or are they in addition to the current bonuses? in addition "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 26	Posted - 2015.09.24 16:08:00 - [7] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: please read the whole thing. Overall a massive buff for dedicated AV, both infantry and vehicle. I did read the whole thing. Can you spell out the part where Swarms were buffed? If the damage was buffed in a way I'm not realizing, can you explain how that's supposed to help when I have half the range of a forge gun, and can't really hit anything I want to fire at anyhow? CCP Rattati wrote: Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon? Logically, my ability to punt infantry suits with the forge means it's superior to swarms in multiple ways. Does the forge have tracking? the forge is a heavy weapon with loads of drawbacks and therefore packs the highest punch. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 26	Posted - 2015.09.25 03:21:00 - [8] - Quote just clearing up some things Commando will hit for be 270, after the reduction to melee damage myofibs, should be comparable as before. That was not intended to be reduced. Gallente Assault ROF bonus only applies to Assault Rifles (the whole family) and is now 3% per level, for a 15% total. I hear the nade concerns, and we will see how it pans out. I stand fully by the whole HAV/AV reasoning in the OP. Assault Swarm launchers are still on the table for being an Anti Air platform. The plan for Melee was to be effective, especially on the Weak Spots but the code for Melee Damage vs Nova Knives is a bit blurred, looking into it. I will also share a few screenshots on the weak spots. People who complain about Scrambler Hipfire kick going from 0.025 to 0.1 as "OMG 400% nerf" need to play the game. This is intended to stop spam and nothing else. Currently the 0.025 is so little it literally does nothing. There is no kick. After a lot of testing, the number is balanced to be able to charge and then fire calmly. Spamming as fast as you can will overheat within a few shots, but a calm follow up will not. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 26	Posted - 2015.09.25 04:25:00 - [9] - Quote Gallente HAV Weak Spot Caldari HAV Weak Spot "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 26	Posted - 2015.09.25 15:08:00 - [10] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: When hell freezes over unless the rate of fire goes up on the forge. Then we'll talk. You are just DRIPPING with bias. But like I said a decrease to range would call for a buff in some other area. And it doesn't even have to be all forge guns. Things like the breach or the regular forge gun can keep that range. But the assault variant needs to come down in range. It's already the most powerful of all forge guns with no drawbacks in comparison to the other variants (unable to hold a charge isn't really a draw back from my experience). A reduction to range would make the other variants more appealing (breach get more range for long charge times?). Your standard variant and breach are long range area denial weapons, while the assault would be your short range area denial/destruction variant. Honestly though, in your quest to destroy vehicles, I feel you are neglecting your own bias for the forge gun. My balancing rule of thumb is to gain you must lose. So a weapon should not have long range and high dps. As range increases, dps should go down. This is evident in the breach, but it lacks what it really needs, more range. The assault is like the converse, same range but MORE dps. Why? great questions, the breach should have more range. later topic. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"



CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 26	Posted - 2015.09.26 12:55:00 - [11] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Bremen van Equis wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Should the range nerf go through, I do not expect Swarms will see much use in the weeks and months following Foxfour. High risk and negligible reward will be to blame. High risk and negligible reward... area denial of a force multiplier is a negligible reward? Are you talking about WP for kills, or usefulness to the team? Maybe I'm wrong but aren't you guys wracking up +75's every time you get more than one volley off? High risk and negligible reward is what current ADS is all about, except maybe in the hands of the most adept pilots. Swarms on a basic Min commando (now Caldari after hotfix) seem to be low risk for lots of points. Are you trying to solo an ADS with swarms, or deny them access to clear a bunch of rooftop spawn points? Hi there. You must've confused me with Soraya; please re-read the very first line of my feedback on the topic: I agree that swarms are too good against dropships. Unfortunately for Swarmers, there's more at play with Swarms than their oppression of dropships. Take Swarms vs HAVs, for example. Why even bother? To answer your question, Swarmers are not being paid +75WP per volley. Swarming is not at all a WP-intensive activity. It is, however, a very high-risk activity. Swarmers tend to die alot. They just do. If you don't care to take my word for it, try it sometime for yourself. Better yet, ask Rattati for Swarm Launcher kill/spawn efficiency numbers. which is why swarms are also included in the weak spot increase for HAVs "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Frame C C P C C P Alliance 7	Posted - 2015.10.08 06:26:00 - [12] - Quote This is scheduled to go live later today at 11:00 UTC. CCP Frame, CCP Community Team


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 27	Posted - 2015.10.12 03:45:00 - [13] - Quote Stefan Stahl wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: @Stefan: I also think the turning changes are a step in the right direction, they let you artificially increase the distance Swarms have to travel, which helps you actually leave the fight. I do think Swarms need the variants looked at: having the base SL function like a 'Breach' with high damage but longish lock-on times (for HAV work) and the Assault having lower damage (probably a little lower than the current SL) but with longer lock range, faster lock-on and more shots in the clip. That would go a long way towards solving SL balance by making them actually balance-capable, instead of OP vs one and UP vs the other. I'm receptive to the idea of separating SLs into long and short range versions. However I advise against separating them too far for several reasons. Most importantly, once we get into a territory where the two variants are separated into "anti-DS SL" and "anti-HAV SL" the utility of each individual SL will be greatly reduced. It's a good idea to have one SL that does long range supressive damage to both DS and HAV and a short range SL that can kill HAVs and forces DS to immediately flee out of range. But the long range SL needs to be able to deter an HAV that is rolling up to your face and the short range SL needs to be able to keep a DS away. Otherwise people won't use either of them unless they perform so well at their respective jobs that it'll be an unfair fight for the HAV or DS pilots. would love to have these thoughts spelled out in actual before and after numbers per each swarm variant. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 27	Posted - 2015.10.12 03:50:00 - [14] - Quote Thaddeus Reynolds wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Stefan Stahl wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: @Stefan: I also think the turning changes are a step in the right direction, they let you artificially increase the distance Swarms have to travel, which helps you actually leave the fight. I do think Swarms need the variants looked at: having the base SL function like a 'Breach' with high damage but longish lock-on times (for HAV work) and the Assault having lower damage (probably a little lower than the current SL) but with longer lock range, faster lock-on and more shots in the clip. That would go a long way towards solving SL balance by making them actually balance-capable, instead of OP vs one and UP vs the other. I'm receptive to the idea of separating SLs into long and short range versions. However I advise against separating them too far for several reasons. Most importantly, once we get into a territory where the two variants are separated into "anti-DS SL" and "anti-HAV SL" the utility of each individual SL will be greatly reduced. It's a good idea to have one SL that does long range supressive damage to both DS and HAV and a short range SL that can kill HAVs and forces DS to immediately flee out of range. But the long range SL needs to be able to deter an HAV that is rolling up to your face and the short range SL needs to be able to keep a DS away. Otherwise people won't use either of them unless they perform so well at their respective jobs that it'll be an unfair fight for the HAV or DS pilots. would love to have these thoughts spelled out in actual before and after numbers per each swarm variant. Question for theorycrafting...can missile speed and/or flight range be adjusted between variants? or just lock range? consider everything to be adjustable. I just need to create a different projectile type if we would do a faster one. It is also possible to do one missile per swarm, if that's something interesting. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"