DUST Search - [Feedback] Hotfix FoxFour

Thumb Green wrote:

XxBlazikenxX wrote:

Thumb Green wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

just clearing up some things

Commando will hit for be 270, after the reduction to melee damage myofibs, should be comparable as before. That was not intended to be reduced.

Gallente Assault ROF bonus only applies to Assault Rifles (the whole family) and is now 3% per level, for a 15% total.

I hear the nade concerns, and we will see how it pans out.

I stand fully by the whole HAV/AV reasoning in the OP. Assault Swarm launchers are still on the table for being an Anti Air platform.

The plan for Melee was to be effective, especially on the Weak Spots but the code for Melee Damage vs Nova Knives is a bit blurred, looking into it. I will also share a few screenshots on the weak spots.

People who complain about Scrambler Hipfire kick going from 0.025 to 0.1 as "OMG 400% nerf" need to play the game. This is intended to stop spam and nothing else. Currently the 0.025 is so little it literally does nothing. There is no kick. After a lot of testing, the number is balanced to be able to charge and then fire calmly. Spamming as fast as you can will overheat within a few shots, but a calm follow up will not.

What about the Cassault RR kick reduction, that's only going to be when you aim down sights, right? Otherwise you're not only making it better at mid-long range but CQC as well and the RR shouldn't be better in CQC.

It will only be better in CQC on the Cal Assault. The ROF increase will still make the Gallente better at CQC

That's beside the point. The RR is meant to be the king of long range and suck in CQC just as the AR is meant to be the king of CQC and suck at long range. If the RR is king of long range and good in CQC even if just on one suit, then there's no downside and no, the charge up ain't that big of a deal.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 14 post(s)
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 16	Posted - 2015.09.25 15:54:00 - [421] - Quote XxBlazikenxX wrote: Dropships will not be OP from ONE av weapon being nerfed We'll see.
DeathwindRising Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC 1	Posted - 2015.09.25 15:56:00 - [422] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: XxBlazikenxX wrote: Thumb Green wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: just clearing up some things Commando will hit for be 270, after the reduction to melee damage myofibs, should be comparable as before. That was not intended to be reduced. Gallente Assault ROF bonus only applies to Assault Rifles (the whole family) and is now 3% per level, for a 15% total. I hear the nade concerns, and we will see how it pans out. I stand fully by the whole HAV/AV reasoning in the OP. Assault Swarm launchers are still on the table for being an Anti Air platform. The plan for Melee was to be effective, especially on the Weak Spots but the code for Melee Damage vs Nova Knives is a bit blurred, looking into it. I will also share a few screenshots on the weak spots. People who complain about Scrambler Hipfire kick going from 0.025 to 0.1 as "OMG 400% nerf" need to play the game. This is intended to stop spam and nothing else. Currently the 0.025 is so little it literally does nothing. There is no kick. After a lot of testing, the number is balanced to be able to charge and then fire calmly. Spamming as fast as you can will overheat within a few shots, but a calm follow up will not. What about the Cassault RR kick reduction, that's only going to be when you aim down sights, right? Otherwise you're not only making it better at mid-long range but CQC as well and the RR shouldn't be better in CQC. It will only be better in CQC on the Cal Assault. The ROF increase will still make the Gallente better at CQC That's beside the point. The RR is meant to be the king of long range and suck in CQC just as the AR is meant to be the king of CQC and suck at long range. If the RR is king of long range and good in CQC even if just on one suit, then there's no downside and no, the charge up ain't that big of a deal. RR won't be used in cqc. The magsec will be lol. Your concern is misplaced. The new magsec stats are almost perfectly taylored to be paired with the RR so you get the best in both situations
Tebu Gan Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.09.25 15:59:00 - [423] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: XxBlazikenxX wrote: Dropships will not be OP from ONE av weapon being nerfed We'll see. Interesting tidbit, in PC, forge guns are an ADS's worst nightmare. Swarms are simply supplemental.
Thumb Green 2	Posted - 2015.09.25 16:02:00 - [424] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: RR won't be used in cqc. The magsec will be lol. Your concern is misplaced. The new magsec stats are almost perfectly taylored to be paired with the RR so you get the best in both situations Sure it won't. In either case there's no reason for the RR to get a hipfire kick reduction. Trying to bring the slayer logi back.... unsuccessfully so far.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 16	Posted - 2015.09.25 16:10:00 - [425] - Quote Tebu Gan wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: XxBlazikenxX wrote: Dropships will not be OP from ONE av weapon being nerfed We'll see. Interesting tidbit, in PC, forge guns are an ADS's worst nightmare. Swarms are simply supplemental. No doubt. Still I've found that mixed AV worked very well it came to crashing birds and tanks. Forge + Swarms made for a deadly combination. I don't think that swarms will see much use following FoxFour; will be interesting to see what (if anything) replaces them, both in pubs and PC.
Bremen van Equis Incorruptibles 728	Posted - 2015.09.25 16:10:00 - [426] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Should the range nerf go through, I do not expect Swarms will see much use in the weeks and months following Foxfour. High risk and negligible reward will be to blame. High risk and negligible reward... area denial of a force multiplier is a negligible reward? Are you talking about WP for kills, or usefulness to the team? Maybe I'm wrong but aren't you guys wracking up +75's every time you get more than one volley off? High risk and negligible reward is what current ADS is all about, except maybe in the hands of the most adept pilots. Swarms on a basic Min commando (now Caldari after hotfix) seem to be low risk for lots of points. Are you trying to solo an ADS with swarms, or deny them access to clear a bunch of rooftop spawn points? Buckle up, boysGÇªthis ramp leads to space. -Axe Cop
Tebu Gan Capital Acquisitions LLC 1	Posted - 2015.09.25 16:17:00 - [427] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Tebu Gan wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: XxBlazikenxX wrote: Dropships will not be OP from ONE av weapon being nerfed We'll see. Interesting tidbit, in PC, forge guns are an ADS's worst nightmare. Swarms are simply supplemental. No doubt. Still I've found that mixed AV worked very well it came to crashing birds and tanks. Forge + Swarms made for a deadly combination. I don't think that swarms will see much use following FoxFour; will be interesting to see what (if anything) replaces them, both in pubs and PC. I always use officer swarms anyhow. 200M range ftw.
Soraya Xel Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 6	Posted - 2015.09.25 16:19:00 - [428] - Quote Murder Medic wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Except that Judge wasn't talking about a 50KDR being 'fine', it was that the only way to remain ISK positive was to have a 50KDR (because at the time they cost so much more): it was not that a 50KDR is fine for ADS and for no one else, it was that that was the benchmark for ADS being a self-sustaining role like any other. Also complete bull, because at 50 KDR average, Judge made a killing off every derpship he flew. Most. Profitable. Fit. Ever. You are so painfully ignorant. That was back when dropships were over 1 Million ISK per fit, and payouts after match were really low. It took 4-6 matches to pay for a single dropship. 4-6 matches to pay for a dropship, when it could survive several matches with ease? Yeah. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Soraya Xel Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 6	Posted - 2015.09.25 16:21:00 - [429] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Except that Judge wasn't talking about a 50KDR being 'fine', it was that the only way to remain ISK positive was to have a 50KDR (because at the time they cost so much more): it was not that a 50KDR is fine for ADS and for no one else, it was that that was the benchmark for ADS being a self-sustaining role like any other. Also complete bull, because at 50 KDR average, Judge made a killing off every derpship he flew. Most. Profitable. Fit. Ever. Lucky for you soraya, I have Judge as a contact. His life time KD is 2.38. that's pretty freaking far from 50. His statement was his KDR in ADS was about 50, as of the time of the discussion. Not lifetime. And only when he was in his ADS, not all of his gameplay combined. And even if Judge was lying to the community, the point is still relevant: Judge said he thought an average KDR of 50 was acceptable balance for an ADS. Sorry, Tesfa, you're still operating with the rough level of competency of my little sister. She actually turned seven yesterday though, so not a six year old, I messed up in my previous comment. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Murder Medic Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 160	Posted - 2015.09.25 16:24:00 - [430] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: And even if Judge was lying to the community, the point is still relevant: Judge said he thought an average KDR of 50 was acceptable balance for an ADS. Because you had to do well in 4-6 matches without dying once in order to break even So, about 8-9 kills per match You are exactly why CPM is nothing but poison to this game

Toobar Zoobar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 157	Posted - 2015.09.25 16:24:00 - [431] - Quote I hope Rattati comes to his senses and removes K/D as a viewable statistic. K/D is important in CoD not dust. Specialization: Making typo's.
Soraya Xel Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 6	Posted - 2015.09.25 16:30:00 - [432] - Quote Murder Medic wrote: Because you had to do well in 4-6 matches without dying once in order to break even So, about 8-12 kills per match Which was extremely painless and easy for ADS pilots to reliably do, and then some. Because ADSes rarely ever died. The fact that pilots had a temper tantrum on the rare occasion one did, may lead people to believe they died more frequently, just due to the volume of their crying. But the ADS was always reliably OP as all get out. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Murder Medic Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 162	Posted - 2015.09.25 16:31:00 - [433] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Murder Medic wrote: Because you had to do well in 4-6 matches without dying once in order to break even So, about 8-12 kills per match Which was extremely painless and easy for ADS pilots to reliably do, and then some. Because ADSes rarely ever died. The fact that pilots had a temper tantrum on the rare occasion one did, may lead people to believe they died more frequently, just due to the volume of their crying. But the ADS was always reliably OP as all get out. They rarely died to swarms, at the time. Back then Railguns could one shot almost any and all fits from dropships, and forge guns were performing very well too. Just because YOU were bad at AV, doesn't mean the rest of the population was. RDVs, invisible blocks in the sky, over the top collision damage, other dropships, the list goes on and on. It was never safe to fly unless you were up against virtually no opposition what so ever. You're just making things up to try and console yourself for not being very skilled at AV. And, at the time, swarms were underperforming by quite a bit.
Thumb Green 2	Posted - 2015.09.25 16:35:00 - [434] - Quote Toobar Zoobar wrote: I hope Rattati comes to his senses and removes K/D as a viewable statistic. K/D is important in CoD not dust. Hope they do too so you people will shut the fck up about it and then feel bad for being so damn annoying when you see it's removal has no impact. Stat padders are going to pad whichever is deemed the more important stat and stompers are going to stomp because they enjoy it. The blues, well they're still going to half-ass it just enough to get their points without losing too much ISK. Trying to bring the slayer logi back.... unsuccessfully so far.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 16	Posted - 2015.09.25 16:39:00 - [435] - Quote Bremen van Equis wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Should the range nerf go through, I do not expect Swarms will see much use in the weeks and months following Foxfour. High risk and negligible reward will be to blame. High risk and negligible reward... area denial of a force multiplier is a negligible reward? Are you talking about WP for kills, or usefulness to the team? Maybe I'm wrong but aren't you guys wracking up +75's every time you get more than one volley off? High risk and negligible reward is what current ADS is all about, except maybe in the hands of the most adept pilots. Swarms on a basic Min commando (now Caldari after hotfix) seem to be low risk for lots of points. Are you trying to solo an ADS with swarms, or deny them access to clear a bunch of rooftop spawn points? Hi there. You must've confused me with Soraya; please re-read the very first line of my feedback on the topic. I'm in agreement that swarms are at present too good against dropships. Unfortunately for Swarmers, there's more at play with Swarms than their oppression of dropships. Take Swarms vs HAVs, for example. Why even bother? To answer your question, Swarmers are not being paid +75WP per volley. Swarming is not at all a WP-intensive activity. It is, however, a very high-risk activity. Swarmers tend to die alot. They just do. If you don't care to take my word for it, try it sometime for yourself. Better yet, ask Rattati for Swarm Launcher kill/spawn efficiency numbers.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1	Posted - 2015.09.25 16:40:00 - [436] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Which was extremely painless and easy for ADS pilots to reliably do, and then some. Because ADSes rarely ever died. But the ADS was always reliably OP as all get out. Yeah, no. As Murder Medic said, flying wasn't nearly as awesome and easy as you make out. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Soraya Xel Random Gunz Rise Of Legion. 6	Posted - 2015.09.25 16:46:00 - [437] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Yeah, no. As Murder Medic said, flying wasn't nearly as awesome and easy as you make out. I get that you guys still whined just as loud before, but you're still horrifically spoiled brats about how the ADS performed, but yes, it was that awesome for you. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1	Posted - 2015.09.25 16:51:00 - [438] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: I get that you guys still whined just as loud before, but you're still horrifically spoiled brats about how the ADS performed, but yes, it was that awesome for you. Wow, just no it wasn't. In 1.6, sure when Hardeners were ridiculous, but it wasn't that way all the time. Or I guess we just keep asserting that the other is wrong for ever and ever. And it's not like Swarms never had their period of OPness. 400m lock-on, higher damage Swarms were incredibly OP and entirely ridiculous to fly against, to the point that Swarms shut down entire maps. Don't act like this is a one way street. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Moochie Cricket Fatal Absolution Bleeding Sun Conglomerate 1	Posted - 2015.09.25 17:11:00 - [439] - Quote Soraya Xel wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Yeah, no. As Murder Medic said, flying wasn't nearly as awesome and easy as you make out. I get that you guys still whined just as loud before, but you're still horrifically spoiled brats about how the ADS performed, but yes, it was that awesome for you. Opinions are like @ssholes, everyone has them. However, yours is a gaping abyss spewing forth an unending stream of diarrhea. Caldari REALLY 514
Lac Nokomis Corrosive Synergy No Context 147	Posted - 2015.09.25 17:11:00 - [440] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Soraya Xel wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon? Allow me to be abundantly clear as the token AV guy on the CPM on my position. It will be a cold day in hell before I support making a self-guiding, lock-on, fire-and-forget weapon superior to every other weapon in it's class regardless of any real or perceived limitation. It is simply not going to happen. I will gleefully support making the plasma cannon or even a flaylock pistol being so before i will support making a fire and forget lock on weapon "best in class." Looks at breach flaylock pistol "Its okay boy, your time will come." "What? Cleaned up? lets focus on getting you dirty first"

DeathwindRising Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC 1	Posted - 2015.09.25 17:16:00 - [441] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: RR won't be used in cqc. The magsec will be lol. Your concern is misplaced. The new magsec stats are almost perfectly taylored to be paired with the RR so you get the best in both situations Sure it won't. In either case there's no reason for the RR to get a hipfire kick reduction. it wont because the new magsec will have more dps and a much short charge up new proto magsec dps = 406.52 current proto RR dps = 397.69 new magsec charge up time = 0.1 seconds current RR charge up time = 0.45 seconds theres literally no competitive reason for using a RR in cqc over the new magsec, especially since the magsec already has less kick than the RR
Lac Nokomis Corrosive Synergy No Context 147	Posted - 2015.09.25 17:25:00 - [442] - Quote I lurk on these forums just WAITING for threads like this. Love it. Glad to see so many changes. Just purely the amount of change has be exited. :D I started playing right when the RR got nerfed (1.8?) I don't actually think the AR buff is going to be too nuts. I mean how many dedicated CAL assaults do you know that go close quarters against the AR as it is? We know to stick to 70m, and the kick reduction will pay us for our playstyle, rather then say the GAL assaults play style. Most feedback will probably be given in the AR vs Armor tankers in close quarters. Im sure as hell not going to start running my CAL assault into CQC. Its not where they belong. Hopefully we remember that. If your lurking in this thread, remember energy spent on irrelevance is wasted. As someone that hasn't been around long it is refreshing to see the new CPM posting everywhere, you know, in the community. Its weird, but im getting use to it. o7
Cronar Stenovich TRAILS AND TRIBULATIONS 0	Posted - 2015.09.25 17:28:00 - [443] - Quote I wanted to get on here and bash the hotfix but I managed to get over my butthurt... then I read this. Small Blaster Old Splash Radius50 New Splash Radius 200<--- Blasters have a 2 meter splash radius?! Wait BLASTERS HAVE SPLASH!? Can I have my Rail Turret splash back please? They should at least equal blasters, I have zero chance of taking on a Forge Gunner, Swarmer or Plasma Cannoneer when I have to be more accurate than they do from a nose turret on a dropship while they're knocking me around. Oh and running away just gets me emails that say "*****" so that isn't an option.
Alena Ventrallis Commando Perkone Caldari State 3	Posted - 2015.09.25 17:31:00 - [444] - Quote Cronar Stenovich wrote: I wanted to get on here and bash the hotfix but I managed to get over my butthurt... then I read this. Small Blaster Old Splash Radius50 New Splash Radius 200<--- Blasters have a 2 meter splash radius?! Wait BLASTERS HAVE SPLASH!? Can I have my Rail Turret splash back please? They should at least equal blasters, I have zero chance of taking on a Forge Gunner, Swarmer or Plasma Cannoneer when I have to be more accurate than they do from a nose turret on a dropship while they're knocking me around. Oh and running away just gets me emails that say "*****" so that isn't an option. Yes, they now have 2m splash. If you're trying to kill anything other than a vehicle with a nose mounted railgun, you're doing it wrong. Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Loyal Glasses G.L.O.R.Y 98	Posted - 2015.09.25 17:34:00 - [445] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: Quoted to GD. THANK YOU RATATI!!! MY KALANATE ASSAULT RIFLE IS THE MOST OP IN DA GAME!!!!! I CAN NOW FULLY FIT MY GALASS WIH NORE DAMAGE WITH PG REDUCTION AND MY GALMANDO IS AWESOMER NOW!!!! I have much better luck when using the Std AR than the Kalanate. :\ Glasses of the Loyal Variety > "The dead are notoriously unproductive "
Loyal Glasses G.L.O.R.Y 98	Posted - 2015.09.25 17:38:00 - [446] - Quote Quote: Cronar Stenovich wrote: I wanted to get on here and bash the hotfix but I managed to get over my butthurt... then I read this. Small Blaster Old Splash Radius50 New Splash Radius 200<--- Blasters have a 2 meter splash radius?! Wait BLASTERS HAVE SPLASH!? Can I have my Rail Turret splash back please? They should at least equal blasters, I have zero chance of taking on a Forge Gunner, Swarmer or Plasma Cannoneer when I have to be more accurate than they do from a nose turret on a dropship while they're knocking me around. Oh and running away just gets me emails that say "*****" so that isn't an option. It doesn't need splash what it needs is a damage + accuracy increase. Glasses of the Loyal Variety > "The dead are notoriously unproductive "
Thumb Green Elephant Riders 2	Posted - 2015.09.25 17:38:00 - [447] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Thumb Green wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: RR won't be used in cqc. The magsec will be lol. Your concern is misplaced. The new magsec stats are almost perfectly taylored to be paired with the RR so you get the best in both situations Sure it won't. In either case there's no reason for the RR to get a hipfire kick reduction. it wont because the new magsec will have more dps and a much short charge up new proto magsec dps = 406.52 current proto RR dps = 397.69 new magsec charge up time = 0.1 seconds current RR charge up time = 0.45 seconds theres literally no competitive reason for using a RR in cqc over the new magsec, especially since the magsec already has less kick than the RR You're problem is you're looking at it as either one or the other, which only applies to 3 of the logi's. In the end I don't care whether or not people would try to use it in CQC, there's still no damn reason for the RR's to receive a hipfire kick reduction. Trying to bring the slayer logi back.... unsuccessfully so far.
DeathwindRising Titans of Phoenix Damage LLC 1	Posted - 2015.09.25 17:56:00 - [448] - Quote Thumb Green wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Thumb Green wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: RR won't be used in cqc. The magsec will be lol. Your concern is misplaced. The new magsec stats are almost perfectly taylored to be paired with the RR so you get the best in both situations Sure it won't. In either case there's no reason for the RR to get a hipfire kick reduction. it wont because the new magsec will have more dps and a much short charge up new proto magsec dps = 406.52 current proto RR dps = 397.69 new magsec charge up time = 0.1 seconds current RR charge up time = 0.45 seconds theres literally no competitive reason for using a RR in cqc over the new magsec, especially since the magsec already has less kick than the RR You're problem is you're looking at it as either one or the other, which only applies to 3 of the logi's (edit) which is still irrelevant because this only applies to the Cassault . In the end I don't care whether or not people would try to use it in CQC, there's still no damn reason for the RR's to receive a hipfire kick reduction. why are you talking about logis? if you dont care if people will use the RR in cqc or not, why do you care at all? honestly i use the RR in cqc now just fine. i just had to get used to it. the charge up is the issue for me. a kick reduction is simply a quality of life improvement
Vesta Opalus Rebels New Republic The Ditanian Alliance 1	Posted - 2015.09.25 17:58:00 - [449] - Quote Bremen van Equis wrote: High risk and negligible reward... area denial of a force multiplier is a negligible reward? Are you talking about WP for kills, or usefulness to the team? Maybe I'm wrong but aren't you guys wracking up +75's every time you get more than one volley off? The WP for damage is pretty much broken since the last update, hardeners take the damage down so far that you basically dont do enough damage to trigger WP rewards (though you still get plenty of points killing throw away gorgons and vipers, oh boy).
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 440	Posted - 2015.09.25 18:01:00 - [450] - Quote Vesta Opalus wrote: Bremen van Equis wrote: High risk and negligible reward... area denial of a force multiplier is a negligible reward? Are you talking about WP for kills, or usefulness to the team? Maybe I'm wrong but aren't you guys wracking up +75's every time you get more than one volley off? The WP for damage is pretty much broken since the last update, hardeners take the damage down so far that you basically dont do enough damage to trigger WP rewards (though you still get plenty of points killing throw away gorgons and vipers, oh boy). This...combination it seems of regeneration and hardeners...I more only seem to get vehicle damage points if the vehicle fits plates/extenders anymore Khanid Logi and Tanker, sometimes AV Heavy or Sniper.



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