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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 13:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
So in nerfing swarm range YET AGAIN, when it badly needed a buff to be able to hit... anything even remotely airborne.... swarms can now only be used against dropships that are parked. Which you are standing next to?
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 14:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:4.Dedicated AV in the form of a Minmando with Swarms or otherwise, can definitely suppress HAVs and area deny Dropships, but rarely destroy vehicles.
So this is a huge problem. And...
CCP Rattati wrote:Finally, reducing the Swarm Launcher lock-on range, hit impact and turning radius should improve the quality of life of Dropship users, and somewhat for HAVs.
This doesn't fix it, this exacerbates it.
Breakin, I am disappoint.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 15:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:please read the whole thing. Overall a massive buff for dedicated AV, both infantry and vehicle.
I did read the whole thing. Can you spell out the part where Swarms were buffed?
CCP Rattati wrote:Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon.
Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon?
Logically, my ability to punt infantry suits with the forge means it's superior to swarms in multiple ways.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 16:39:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:please read the whole thing. Overall a massive buff for dedicated AV, both infantry and vehicle. I did read the whole thing. Can you spell out the part where Swarms were buffed? If the damage was buffed in a way I'm not realizing, can you explain how that's supposed to help when I have half the range of a forge gun, and can't really hit anything I want to fire at anyhow? CCP Rattati wrote:Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon? Logically, my ability to punt infantry suits with the forge means it's superior to swarms in multiple ways. Does the forge have tracking? the forge is a heavy weapon with loads of drawbacks and therefore packs the highest punch.
This has never been remotely valid argument. Forges speed and direct path almost always guarantee a hit unless you are terrible at aiming. Swarms is rolling dice on impact with buildings and dropship pilots easily outrange your lock range before you can destroy them.
So where was the swarm buff again that mitigates your huge range nerf?
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 18:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:-Forge is not the longest ranged AV weapon, swarm launchers track out to 100 meters more than forge guns.
This is entirely useless/unhelpful, because you can't freaking FIRE.
Swarms need 200-250 meter lock range to be a viable weapon against dropships. Their ability to outrange swarms is ridiculous, and for some reason swarms keep getting nerfed further.
Let's just agree that if this swarm nerf isn't reversed, we should just remove swarms. Having them in the game and claiming they're AV weapons is just lying to newbies.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 19:18:00 -
[6] - Quote
Let me propose a far better swarm fix, Rattati.
- Increase the lockon range to 225-250m.
- Reduce the tracking range to more like 250m-275m.
This is both a quality of life improvement for:
- Swarmers can now actually fire at dropships again, without having to try to position themselves directly under the target.
- Dropships have a much more reasonable chance of escaping shots they are actively trying to avoid.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 19:40:00 -
[7] - Quote
At 150m lockon, it is functionally impossible to kill a dropship that isn't AFK.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 19:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Let's be clear, nobody's "forgetting" anything. Dropship pilots are conveniently leaving out realities that help ensure they're OP, but that's not any different than usual.
You need a 250m range in order to be able to engage at 150m. Because if a swarm launcher is engaging at maximum range, then the dropship pilot can fly out of lock range too quickly to fire enough swarms to even do significant damage.
I need 250m range so that I know when I fire at 150m, I might be able to get a couple shots off before dropships buzz out of range.
Now, if you're worried about redlining, and need to keep the range short: We can just half the speed of dropships instead. But I think the range is a much better solution.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 19:46:00 -
[9] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:I have no idea how he of all people got on CPM 1.
Why do you +1 all of my posts and then insult me in your posts?
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 19:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
Jakkal Shoobah wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:At 150m lockon, it is functionally impossible to kill a dropship that isn't AFK. Its easy to watch ANy pilot die to two well Cooardinated Av attacks. You shouldn't expect to rek the ds as fast as infantry just because you have a missle launcher on your suit. Its quite ridiculous really. If the pilot ever makes a mistake you can punish him for it. If he evades you by breaking Los , using building cover, and his speed and flight to his advantage then yeah he should be able to do that.
This is dropship pilot nonsense. I know dropship pilots are used to being OP, but one class cannot be just "inherently better" than every other. In addition to a dropship's ability to fly, traverse the map in seconds, and also require multiple people "coordinating" to kill you, you're immune to most of the weapons in the game.
I'm not even trying to fix how fundamentally broken dropships are as a thing, I just want a weapon that was designed pretty much entirely to kill dropships, to actually be able to hit them.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 20:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jakkal Shoobah wrote:Why don't you like the changes to turn radius ? The range Nerf I understand , but irs only 25 meters that's nothing.
Why do you want your swarms to lock onto any vehicle you can see?
I am fine with the turn radius changes.
I need to be able to lock on and hit dropships that are attacking my team. And I probably should at least be partially as capable of doing so as a forge gunner, which has a 300m effective range. (And much higher damage to boot.)
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 20:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Yeah because it's definetely fair for us to lose a dropship that costs 500k (including your suit) to a suit that costs 5 times less than that.
A swarm user will lose at least five dropsuits trying to kill your one dropship once. And STILL FAIL TO KILL YOU.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 20:42:00 -
[13] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:So basically you're saying that on certain maps 1 guy will be able to lock down an entire half of the map with a weapon from dropships? Combined with two people you got yourself an OP weapon. That's right, I said OP, because it is. Forge gun takes skill to use, swarm launcher, just look and shoot.
That's complete nonsense. If anything, aiming swarms requires a lot more skill, as you have to figure out how to get them to arc around buildings to even have a chance at hitting a target. They're way too slow to be effective much of the time. There's tricks like firing to the side, or even behind you, to try and screw with their turning arc to your advantage, but realistically, much of the time your swarms are just going to hit a tower.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 20:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
Point and shoot is easy, man. Forges are basically AV sniper rifles.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 21:22:00 -
[15] - Quote
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:
Both Rattati and the CPM have already done the hypothesizing. And then asked for feedback, and are now getting it. Now it's time to evaluate the changes in a live environment, and work from there.
Fixed that for you.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 21:24:00 -
[16] - Quote
Tesfa, your entire "refutation" post seems to indicate you didn't read, or couldn't understand, anything that I said. At all. :/ It horrifically misrepresents what I said. Please don't do that.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 21:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Tesfa, your entire "refutation" post seems to indicate you didn't read, or couldn't understand, anything that I said. At all. :/ It horrifically misrepresents what I said. Please don't do that. Tell us what he misrepresents? I'd really like to know
I never actually indicated I wanted dropship speed cut in half. The issue, is basically, that dropships cannot be made to so effortlessly run away from the threat of swarms. At best, range of swarms needs to be suitable for it to require active attempt at evasion to survive, whereas with even the current pitiful range, dropship pilots need to merely hit the thrust slightly to be easily protected from any threat. I also stated I was okay with making swarms turn more poorly, not the other way around. I certainly wasn't asking for the whole list he acts like I propose.
Furthermore, his supposed attempts to claim "contradictions" is simple: I'm looking for actual balance, not pitching just a nerf or a buff. But actual gameplay. That does involve some give and take. The 400m tracking range thing is a huge pain point for dropships, and I agree, we can help dropship pilots out there, but we need some lock range to make swarms viable.
Tesfa completely was unable to comprehend why we need MORE than 150m lock range to engage at 150m. Hint: Because we can't fire at 151m.
Derrith Erador wrote:Gentlemen, I'm going to go ahead and give you a forewarning. I'd give up on arguing with Soraya.
Arguing with him is worse than picking a fight with a brick wall. You're not getting anything through his head, and you'll only end up wasting your time explaining anything, because he doesn't listen.
This could easily be said about yourself. Derrith, you've never found a single dropship nerf you didn't whine about. Your opinion on dropships has the same weight and value of Judge's, which were useless.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 21:41:00 -
[18] - Quote
Balistyc Farshot wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Point and shoot is easy, man. Forges are basically AV sniper rifles. Sorry, I had my mouth full of sour patch kids. Yeah, you sir have never used a Forge Gun for 5h1t! [/quote]
Forge guns are probably the weapon I'm most adept at. And since the original swarm lock range nerf, it's the only weapon with which I've reliably killed dropships.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:35:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:
I never actually indicated I wanted dropship speed cut in half.
Soraya Xel wrote:
Now, if you're worried about redlining, and need to keep the range short: We can just half the speed of dropships instead. But I think the range is a much better solution.
 You can't make this stuff up. 
My six year old little sister is better able to comprehend reading and context than you are. My God.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
Toobar Zoobar wrote:Why don't you just play ambush all day? It's pretty clear you just hate vehicle's and don't want to interact with them in any way.
I literally just proposed nerfing the part of swarms that I've heard the most complaints from vehicle users about, for years. But apparently I just hate vehicle users. Seriously, you know why vehicle users tick me off? If anyone touches their kingdom of OPness, they misrepresent the crud out of everyone until the conversation dies in a fire.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Swarms don't require aiming.
Can definitely tell you've never used one. :D Swarms have always required a lot of finesse to get kills with. Back, you know, when it was possible to get kills with swarms.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 22:40:00 -
[22] - Quote
Thor Odinson42 wrote:It looks like some of the damage you helped do to the ADS is being undone.
Your displeasure warms me inside.
Yeah, I'm a little disappointed Judge's followers seem to be back alive and well trying to undo the hard work of CPM1.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.24 23:40:00 -
[23] - Quote
Toobar Zoobar wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Toobar Zoobar wrote:Why don't you just play ambush all day? It's pretty clear you just hate vehicle's and don't want to interact with them in any way. I literally just proposed nerfing the part of swarms that I've heard the most complaints from vehicle users about, for years. But apparently I just hate vehicle users. Seriously, you know why vehicle users tick me off? If anyone touches their kingdom of OPness, they misrepresent the crud out of everyone until the conversation dies in a fire. "kingdom of OPness". ^This. Arrogance. This is the first update in a long time that is in some way actually helping out the ADS and STILL you have to complain. After all the nerfs the ads has got over the years and the buffs the swarms have got, you still just can't let up for one second. It does come across that you seem to hate the ADS with this unrelenting campaign of yours to relegate pilots to the operators of flying pinyadas.
Because the ADS should not get any help. I've seen the numbers, it was nerfed for good reason, and it still wasn't nerfed enough. If you saw what I saw, you would not even question my feedback.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.25 00:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:Derrith Erador wrote:Arkena Wyrnspire wrote:I must confess that I quickly lose sympathy when I hear ADS pilots complaining that their KDR is lower than 50 when they run ADS. Where did any pilot say that? Judge did.  Perhaps that wasn't quite the same, but when I hear people saying that yes, they are worth more as individual players than groups alarm bells start ringing.
And if I recall, Derrith's support for Judge's position was unwavering.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.25 03:36:00 -
[25] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:ADSs being OP is entirely debatable. What constitutes being OP? KDR? ISK destroyed per death?
The problem is, it was ALL OF THE ABOVE before the nerf. ADS was incredibly ISK efficient. I'm willing to bet it still is, but the only way we'll know is if Rattati decides to share the numbers.
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:I just find that Soraya is unnecessarily militant about V/AV changes, and others like the one I was responding to earlier seem to feel that most ADS pilots want a free ride, which isn't the case.
It's hard to not think pilots just want a free ride when Judge thought a KDR of 50 was "about right", and most of the dropship pilots in the community SUPPORTED HIM! And from what I've seen, the ADS is the most overpowered class in the entire game, and not enough has been done. So when people are pushing buffs for the ADS, I do feel that that is rightly insane.
But I'm not even all that picky. I am okay with the turning radius change. That's fine, I'm glad there's actual gameplay potential in evading swarms. I'm okay with, as I mentioned, even drastically lowering the distance swarms chase you. From 400m down to less than 300m, so that if you're running from swarms, you can reasonably do so. But the lock-on range is pitifully low, I have to spend a minute just trying to find a spot where I can actually lock a dropship, but it moves two seconds later, and then I can't do jack again, much less fire a second volley if I got one off at all, the proposed will now bring it to HALF the range of the forge gun, and the forge gun was, to begin with, a far superior weapon.
I don't even understand why dropship pilots are so unreasonably militant about swarms, and unwilling to recognize that the only time they get killed by swarms, is when they were getting forge gunned at the same time. The arguments around swarms are complete nonsense, and I feel that yeah, dropships are just trying to prevent another viable aerial AV method from existing.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.25 12:02:00 -
[26] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:Soraya, the type of nerf you are suggesting is literally the equivalent of giving logis the health of scouts, making heavies only carry two sidearms, or making so nanohives only replenish one clip.
There's a nerf, and then there's this, you completely want the ADS to be almost unviable in any situation (which it already almost is).
False. I'm not promoting nerfing dropships in this thread.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.25 12:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
XxBlazikenxX wrote:I just completely ignored everything you said after you stated "ADSs are incredibly isk efficient"
That's your ignorance.,not mine.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.25 12:07:00 -
[28] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Except that Judge wasn't talking about a 50KDR being 'fine', it was that the only way to remain ISK positive was to have a 50KDR (because at the time they cost so much more): it was not that a 50KDR is fine for ADS and for no one else, it was that that was the benchmark for ADS being a self-sustaining role like any other.
Also complete bull, because at 50 KDR average, Judge made a killing off every derpship he flew. Most. Profitable. Fit. Ever.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.25 16:19:00 -
[29] - Quote
Murder Medic wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Except that Judge wasn't talking about a 50KDR being 'fine', it was that the only way to remain ISK positive was to have a 50KDR (because at the time they cost so much more): it was not that a 50KDR is fine for ADS and for no one else, it was that that was the benchmark for ADS being a self-sustaining role like any other. Also complete bull, because at 50 KDR average, Judge made a killing off every derpship he flew. Most. Profitable. Fit. Ever. You are so painfully ignorant. That was back when dropships were over 1 Million ISK per fit, and payouts after match were really low. It took 4-6 matches to pay for a single dropship.
4-6 matches to pay for a dropship, when it could survive several matches with ease? Yeah.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.25 16:21:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Except that Judge wasn't talking about a 50KDR being 'fine', it was that the only way to remain ISK positive was to have a 50KDR (because at the time they cost so much more): it was not that a 50KDR is fine for ADS and for no one else, it was that that was the benchmark for ADS being a self-sustaining role like any other. Also complete bull, because at 50 KDR average, Judge made a killing off every derpship he flew. Most. Profitable. Fit. Ever. Lucky for you soraya, I have Judge as a contact. His life time KD is 2.38. that's pretty freaking far from 50.
His statement was his KDR in ADS was about 50, as of the time of the discussion.
Not lifetime. And only when he was in his ADS, not all of his gameplay combined.
And even if Judge was lying to the community, the point is still relevant: Judge said he thought an average KDR of 50 was acceptable balance for an ADS.
Sorry, Tesfa, you're still operating with the rough level of competency of my little sister. She actually turned seven yesterday though, so not a six year old, I messed up in my previous comment.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.25 16:30:00 -
[31] - Quote
Murder Medic wrote:Because you had to do well in 4-6 matches without dying once in order to break even
So, about 8-12 kills per match
Which was extremely painless and easy for ADS pilots to reliably do, and then some. Because ADSes rarely ever died.
The fact that pilots had a temper tantrum on the rare occasion one did, may lead people to believe they died more frequently, just due to the volume of their crying.
But the ADS was always reliably OP as all get out.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.25 16:46:00 -
[32] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Yeah, no. As Murder Medic said, flying wasn't nearly as awesome and easy as you make out.
I get that you guys still whined just as loud before, but you're still horrifically spoiled brats about how the ADS performed, but yes, it was that awesome for you.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Soraya Xel
Random Gunz
Rise Of Legion.
6
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Posted - 2015.09.28 02:02:00 -
[33] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:which is why swarms are also included in the weak spot increase for HAVs
This is hilarious and a terrible point. :/ You can't aim swarms, so "weak spots" are irrelevant for them.
You're buffing forges (which are already the only viable anti-dropship weapon, and the best at killing tanks) via this weak spot, and also thrice-over nerfing the swarms, which were already basically useless.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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