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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
129
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Posted - 2015.09.24 15:20:00 -
[1] - Quote
Impact is a non factor to any pilot who knows how to fly. Reducing that was a pointless waste of resources. Lock on range was NEVER the issue, the two issues are:
Damage to dropships is too high (could be fixed by bringing back native resists to dropships) and swarm missiles track for too long.
The turn radius may or may not be a good change, hard to tell without seeing how it behaves in game.
Reducing lock on range was just a pointless change that further enforces the run away mentality of dropships, and will likely just invoke more frustration than anything.
And no PG buff to Python. So, there's that. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
130
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 16:04:00 -
[2] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:please read the whole thing. Overall a massive buff for dedicated AV, both infantry and vehicle. I did read the whole thing. Can you spell out the part where Swarms were buffed? If the damage was buffed in a way I'm not realizing, can you explain how that's supposed to help when I have half the range of a forge gun, and can't really hit anything I want to fire at anyhow? CCP Rattati wrote:Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon? Logically, my ability to punt infantry suits with the forge means it's superior to swarms in multiple ways.
If anything swarms need an option to hit infantry in some way, or to be made a sidearm
A weapon that requires no active aiming or leading the target should never be the highest damaging weapon. Which is amusing, since damage wasn't touched. Classic CCP, dancing around the issue to the very end. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
133
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 17:06:00 -
[3] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:please read the whole thing. Overall a massive buff for dedicated AV, both infantry and vehicle. I did read the whole thing. Can you spell out the part where Swarms were buffed? If the damage was buffed in a way I'm not realizing, can you explain how that's supposed to help when I have half the range of a forge gun, and can't really hit anything I want to fire at anyhow? CCP Rattati wrote:Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon? Logically, my ability to punt infantry suits with the forge means it's superior to swarms in multiple ways. Does the forge have tracking? the forge is a heavy weapon with loads of drawbacks and therefore packs the highest punch. This has never been remotely valid argument. Forges speed and direct path almost always guarantee a hit unless you are terrible at aiming. Swarms is rolling dice on impact with buildings and dropship pilots easily outrange your lock range before you can destroy them. So where was the swarm buff again that mitigates your huge range nerf?
.....
Almost always guarantee a hit? What are you shooting, Pinatas? |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
137
|
Posted - 2015.09.24 18:46:00 -
[4] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:XxBlazikenxX wrote:-Forge is not the longest ranged AV weapon, swarm launchers track out to 100 meters more than forge guns. This is entirely useless/unhelpful, because you can't freaking FIRE. Swarms need 200-250 meter lock range to be a viable weapon against dropships. Their ability to outrange swarms is ridiculous, and for some reason swarms keep getting nerfed further. Let's just agree that if this swarm nerf isn't reversed, we should just remove swarms. Having them in the game and claiming they're AV weapons is just lying to newbies.
Wow, could you get worse?
So, the second a dropship deploys, anywhere on the map, you want to be able to fire at it with auto aim weapons? Seriously? The few actually SKILLED swarmers that exists have ALWAYS waited till the dropship gets nice and close before unloading their missiles, because that almost ensures a kill and keeps you more protected via knocking the ship around (reducing it is stupid, by the way).
The only weapon that's going to hit you from 150+ meters is the small missile launcher, and that's extremely unlikely thanks to you being the size of a flees *****, and likely not even rendering to begin with. Side gunners might reak a little bit of havok finally, but probably not, since hovering still in midair is a wonderful way to get insta gibbed by rails and forge guns, and swarm launchers will still be able to hit you if they get beneath you where your gunners can't see.
Stop being bad.
Seriously |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
155
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Posted - 2015.09.25 14:48:00 -
[5] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Except that Judge wasn't talking about a 50KDR being 'fine', it was that the only way to remain ISK positive was to have a 50KDR (because at the time they cost so much more): it was not that a 50KDR is fine for ADS and for no one else, it was that that was the benchmark for ADS being a self-sustaining role like any other. Also complete bull, because at 50 KDR average, Judge made a killing off every derpship he flew. Most. Profitable. Fit. Ever.
You are so painfully ignorant.
That was back when dropships were over 1 Million ISK per fit, and payouts after match were really low.
It took 5-7 matches to pay for a single dropship. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
160
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Posted - 2015.09.25 16:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:
And even if Judge was lying to the community, the point is still relevant: Judge said he thought an average KDR of 50 was acceptable balance for an ADS.
Because you had to do well in 4-6 matches without dying once in order to break even
So, about 8-9 kills per match
You are exactly why CPM is nothing but poison to this game |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
162
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 16:31:00 -
[7] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Murder Medic wrote:Because you had to do well in 4-6 matches without dying once in order to break even
So, about 8-12 kills per match Which was extremely painless and easy for ADS pilots to reliably do, and then some. Because ADSes rarely ever died. The fact that pilots had a temper tantrum on the rare occasion one did, may lead people to believe they died more frequently, just due to the volume of their crying. But the ADS was always reliably OP as all get out.
They rarely died to swarms, at the time.
Back then Railguns could one shot almost any and all fits from dropships, and forge guns were performing very well too.
Just because YOU were bad at AV, doesn't mean the rest of the population was.
RDVs, invisible blocks in the sky, over the top collision damage, other dropships, the list goes on and on. It was never safe to fly unless you were up against virtually no opposition what so ever. You're just making things up to try and console yourself for not being very skilled at AV. And, at the time, swarms were underperforming by quite a bit. |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
165
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 18:15:00 -
[8] - Quote
Moochie Cricket wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Yeah, no. As Murder Medic said, flying wasn't nearly as awesome and easy as you make out. I get that you guys still whined just as loud before, but you're still horrifically spoiled brats about how the ADS performed, but yes, it was that awesome for you. Opinions are like @ssholes, everyone has them. However, yours is a gaping abyss spewing forth an unending stream of diarrhea.
You win the internet |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
165
|
Posted - 2015.09.25 18:16:00 -
[9] - Quote
Lac Nokomis wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Forge Gun is supposed to be the absolute best AV weapon. Shouldn't swarms, which have no ability to damage infantry at all, be the absolute best AV weapon? Allow me to be abundantly clear as the token AV guy on the CPM on my position. It will be a cold day in hell before I support making a self-guiding, lock-on, fire-and-forget weapon superior to every other weapon in it's class regardless of any real or perceived limitation. It is simply not going to happen. I will gleefully support making the plasma cannon or even a flaylock pistol being so before i will support making a fire and forget lock on weapon "best in class." *Looks at breach flaylock pistol* "Its okay boy, your time will come." "What? Cleaned up? lets focus on getting you dirty first"
Do you remember when flaylock pistols had MASSIVE knockback on dropships?
Yea....that was obnoxious >_< |
Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
166
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Posted - 2015.09.25 18:22:00 -
[10] - Quote
Duke Noobiam wrote:That said, I'm not necessarily against the proposed changes but I am concerned about the opinions of vehicles pilots who believe that their ISK investment entitles them to farm opponents. Your ISK investment allows you to affect the outcome of the battle by giving you access to parts of the map that no one else can use, by giving you greater mobility and by giving you invulnerability to small arms fire. It should not give you a disproportionately higher KDR by virtue of spending more isk.
The thing is though if an ADS goes 20/2, he will have spent more ISK than someone on the ground going 25/5 and will likely have earned less WP for his efforts as well. Along with that, at no point did he hack any points, and likely didn't prevent too many hacks.
It's too easy to just say omg his kdr is good without factoring in everything else. ISK absolutely has to be some kind of a factor, I'm not saying it should make us invulnerable but acting like ISK has no bearing is silly when that only applies to old vets and some top corps. Other players very much live or die by their ISK balance, dropships are absolutely no exception.
It's just frustrating when it's totally fine for infantry to completely dominate a fight and no one bats an eye, but when a dropship does even halfway decent (pretty much only killing infantry, as AV ADS nets you 0-3 kills most matches) and suddenly the sky is falling.
I think that qualifies as a double standard |
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Murder Medic
Forty-Nine Fedayeen
Minmatar Republic
169
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Posted - 2015.09.25 21:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
Juno Tristan wrote:186Posted: 2014.10.28 21:27 | Report 2 Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:Iron Wolf Saber wrote:Nothing Certain wrote:Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:If you think A good job was done with the Tank, the ADS and the AV then speak up. I think It sucks. Show me why it does not. Show me why it does. What does balance look like to you? What kdr or spawn/kill ratio should ADS pilots average?Tankers? AVers? Or what metric should we be looking at? To me they should all fare similarly , what we had was pilots being nigh invincible and claiming they deserved it because of SP and ISK expenditure. I am still pretty sure that 10 swarms are lost for every ADS at a minimum, so how is that imbalanced against ADS? 10? more like 100. 100? How about we look at some real figures. Pulling numbers from your bottom is useless. Dropships in this build need to maintain a 43.2 kdr compared to the equivilent SP based Swarm with a 3.6 KDR. KDR alone as a balance tool is for people who have a pre-school understanding of balance tools
I miss judge so much.  |
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