Will all mass drivers get 100% damage to vehicles or just the breach???

ADSs being OP is entirely debatable. What constitutes being OP? KDR? ISK destroyed per death?

That's a legitimate question I'm asking: what makes the ADS specifically OP? Because if it's something measurable then surely Rattati wouldn't be making changes to ease the life of the ADS such as the proposed FoxFour changes, right?

I don't always fly, in fact I often ground pound. I mostly use my PLC and that can scare away ADSs fine for the most part (it's hard to hit them, but one solid hit and they're usually running) whereas my ADV Swarms on a STD suit costs minimal ISK and can put the hurt on any but the most hardened ADS. And that's kinda the thing: anecdotally, a single Wiyrkomi can seriously frighten even my double hardened Pythons - that Wiyrkomi does not need to be mounted on a fully PRO fit MinCom (orsoon to be CalCom) it can be on a STD MinCom and run to about 60k ISK with PRO damage mods while providing top-tier firepower and being plenty able to defend itself against infantry.

Is that OP? I don't think so, but I do feel that vehicles need a serious overhaul more than Hotfix tweaks to really get a proper balance going. While they cost an arm and a leg to operate they need to have that much of an impact on the battlefield, or else they aren't worth operating - surely it'd be better to make them less expensive and less effective simultaneously, thereby making them more interesting to actually see on the field. Well, in my opinion that's the case.

As for the cost,a fully fit ADS will cost around 300-400k; a fully fit PRO dropsuit will cost 120-200ish, depending on the suit. But as I also mentioned above, an AV suit doesn't need to be PRO to take on an ADS. A STD MinCom with Combat Rifle (or CalCom with ARR after FoxFour) and a Wiyrkomi will cost roughly 40-60k, depending on how it's fit/what tiers are used for the modules, etc. That's not dirt cheap but it's significantly less expensive than an ADS and threatens it to nearly the same degree as a fully PRO suit does,only sacrificing a small amount of damage by not stacking up as many damage mods as possible. Whereas on the flip side,the minimum cost of an ADSis roughly 250k with just STD mods and a single turret.

Again, not entirely unreasonable, but then there's a large disparity with the power/cost ratio of the two.

But yeah it's not all bad for the ADS, but the situation is overall not good and is definitely not a healthy balance. I just find that Soraya is unnecessarily militant about V/AV changes, and others like the one I was responding to earlier seem to feel that most ADS pilots want a free ride, which isn't the case.

People who complain about Scrambler Hipfire kick going from 0.025 to 0.1 as "OMG 400% nerf" need to play the game. This is intended to stop spam and nothing else. Currently the 0.025 is so little it literally does nothing. There is no kick. After a lot of testing, the number is balanced to be able to charge and then fire calmly. Spamming as fast as you can will overheat within a few shots, but a calm follow up will not.

The problem is, it was ALL OF THE ABOVE before the nerf. ADS was incredibly ISK efficient. I'm willing to bet it still is, but the only way we'll know is if Rattati decides to share the numbers.



It's hard to not think pilots just want a free ride when Judge thought a KDR of 50 was "about right", and most of the dropship pilots in the community SUPPORTED HIM! And from what I've seen, the ADS is the most overpowered class in the entire game, and not enough has been done. So when people are pushing buffs for the ADS, I do feel that that is rightly insane.

But I'm not even all that picky. I am okay with the turning radius change. That's fine, I'm glad there's actual gameplay potential in evading swarms. I'm okay with, as I mentioned, even drastically lowering the distance swarms chase you. From 400m down to less than 300m, so that if you're running from swarms, you can reasonably do so. But the lock-on range is pitifully low, I have to spend a minute just trying to find a spot where I can actually lock a dropship, but it moves two seconds later, and then I can't do jack again, much less fire a second volley if I got one off at all, the proposed will now bring it to HALF the range of the forge gun, and the forge gun was, to begin with, a far superior weapon.

I don't even understand why dropship pilots are so unreasonably militant about swarms, and unwilling to recognize that the only time they get killed by swarms, is when they were getting forge gunned at the same time. The arguments around swarms are complete nonsense, and I feel that yeah, dropships are just trying to prevent another viable aerial AV method from existing.

You can have all your swarm launcher SP back after you deduct the SP you got using it to farm WP. Deal? ;)

No, I'm saying it's not an issue because I never stay in one place for more than a second so grenades are completely irrelavent to me.

I believe all.

Flaylocks too.

I stand fully by the whole HAV/AV reasoning in the OP. Assault Swarm launchers are still on the table for being an Anti Air platform.

Goddamit!

>Just started the game a few weeks ago
>Go all out on Amarr Assault because Amarr Victor
>Just unlocked the Vizam Scrambler Rifle today
>See this...

I feel like that is just True's version of pornography.

Gallente HAV Weak Spot
[img]http://puu.sh/kniol/05e3be0da6.jpg[/img]

Caldari HAV Weak Spot
[img]http://puu.sh/knisv/827ef28d16.jpg[/img]

I just completely ignored everything you said after you stated "ADSs are incredibly isk efficient"

I will gleefully support making the plasma cannon or even a flaylock pistol being so before i will support making a fire and forget lock on weapon "best in class."

Enough as been said about grenades and I think Rattati noticed that they will be OP af if he releases those numbers.

Now I want to talk about assaults changes.

Cal and Gal are getting a great and needed buff (tho I still don't know if gal is 5% per level or total).
Minmatar is also getting a huge shield buff (almost equivalent to the CalAss).
But what about the Amarr Assault ? Nothing. Worse ! The ScR is getting seriously over-nerfed ! I swear, no one will ever use an Amarr assault with these changes.

The overheat increase is too much, the kick increase is re-tarded, and the "slowing you when charging" will make the amarr assault even more vulnerable to grenades (which gets a crazy over-buff).

Something I thought you'd have understand is that you dont buff something by nerfing another. The ScR just needs to deal less damage on shields and nothing else. You're simply killing the weapon with those changes.

Soraya, the type of nerf you are suggesting is literally the equivalent of giving logis the health of scouts, making heavies only carry two sidearms, or making so nanohives only replenish one clip.

There's a nerf, and then there's this, you completely want the ADS to be almost unviable in any situation (which it already almost is).

I just completely ignored everything you said after you stated "ADSs are incredibly isk efficient"

Except that Judge wasn't talking about a 50KDR being 'fine', it was that the only way to remain ISK positive was to have a 50KDR (because at the time they cost so much more): it was not that a 50KDR is fine for ADS and for no one else, it was that that was the benchmark for ADS being a self-sustaining role like any other.

Gallente HAV Weak Spot
[img]http://puu.sh/kniol/05e3be0da6.jpg[/img]

Caldari HAV Weak Spot
[img]http://puu.sh/knisv/827ef28d16.jpg[/img]

OMG! Was that fuel cell assembly ALWAYS sitting there like that, waving at us and smiling? Or did the devs do some cool redesigning of the vehicle for this Hotfix? This moment may qualify as "new vehicle design", introduced to the game!



(...either way, yes I'm glad our Dropships don't have, err um something like THAT stuck up inside our---
--er, I mean, there's no crack between our--
Well, uh, what I'm trying to say is...
Gosh, you know what I mean! Having red mercs running around the back of your DS trying to get a round up,-- I mean IN that--- well, it would be mighty uncomfortable for a dropship. ....oh)

It has always there, and has always been a crit damage zone. Apparently the crit damage zone is just getting bigger from what i understand.