Can we hear from players that actually use a MD at a high level? I wouldnt be here if it wasnt absolutely BS...

Been trying them on an alt... quite disappointing.
Sure splash damage is a big advantage, but the range, firing arc, and low DPS compared to the AR (even with direct hits) balanced it. Now it seems like a pointless trinket for novelty, not something actually meant to be used for serious conflicts.

MD was my primary weapon last build. 95% of the time it was what I was using. I could use it with my logi or if I wanted to play pure assault. Now the MD is even more of a nitch weapon, it has taken a massive nerf.

Has it ruined the MD? I dont think so, but the MD is now defiantly a situational weapon and while you see a lot of people running with them now I think a LOT will drop away from them. It will take a lot more time to use them proficiently. Damage did not take a nerf, but splash did.

tl:dr

MD did take a good sized nerf, those who have skill with them will still use them to great effect.

MD was my primary weapon last build. 95% of the time it was what I was using. I could use it with my logi or if I wanted to play pure assault. Now the MD is even more of a nitch weapon, it has taken a massive nerf.

Has it ruined the MD? I dont think so, but the MD is now defiantly a situational weapon and while you see a lot of people running with them now I think a LOT will drop away from them. It will take a lot more time to use them proficiently. Damage did not take a nerf, but splash did.

tl:dr

MD did take a good sized nerf, those who have skill with them will still use them to great effect.

All i know about the mass driver is yesterday i was slaughtering everything that was put in front of me

the guy who killed me the most ......had a mass driver

the only people who aren't upset are the people who went into assault rifles, bring back the variety

1. all weapon do less damage because weaponry does not increase damage any more.

2. lets be honest, the all MD was just too good. I used it before and often I was sitting somewhere and aiming at the general direction of an enemy squad trying to take an objective and I was collecting kills left and right due to the huge splash without a big effort and no chance of retaliation. the "nerf" brings it on par of other weapons, now you have to aim better thats all.

I think ur dumb...

1. all weapon do less damage because weaponry does not increase damage any more.

2. lets be honest, the all MD was just too good. I used it before and often I was sitting somewhere and aiming at the general direction of an enemy squad trying to take an objective and I was collecting kills left and right due to the huge splash without a big effort and no chance of retaliation. the "nerf" brings it on par of other weapons, now you have to aim better thats all.

Bullshit on the first, the MD is roughly 20% weaker than it was in the last build, excluding Damage mods and weaponry boost.

I'm fine with a nerf, but the nerf was too hard. Assault max spread should be bumped up to 7.0, Standard max should be bumped up to 5.0, and Breach Max to 4.0. The way it is now, you will not be hitting clumped reds with anything other than the Assault which is pitifully weak with the damage nerf, the Standard is pretty much limited to 1-1 combat, and Breach is horrible in every way imaginable.

MD does the same base damage as before only the splash is lower. allsuits just have slightly more HP and weaponry damage bonus is gone but this affects everyone equally.

I'm saying that's BS, Freedom was easily doing over 130 splash without any boosts.

Boundless Assaults was doing well over 70 Splash(over 80 IIRC) without any boosts.

And the damage nerf is to every MD weapon.

cool story bro

and now check current stats ingame =D

And you're trolling. I can't believe Freedom has the same amount of splash and splash damage as BASE MASS DRIVER from the last build. And that's not including the spread boost it would get from Operation. That's ridiculous, it's right up there with the Heavy nerf.

All i know about the mass driver is yesterday i was slaughtering everything that was put in front of me

the guy who killed me the most ......had a mass driver

The problem is that the splash damage made the weapon an area denial weapon. Right now it doesn't work that way.

It doesn't make people choose a new route to rush you from. They just keep coming.

I was doing great yesterday to be honest. But I don't think it will last. Lots of people are reacting to MD rounds the same way they used to. When they realize that it doesn't hurt their shields they are going to rush and like others have said above, make you ineffective.

I understand that you can use a flux, but in CQ the flux will hurt yourself and your teammates even without FF on.

I also understand that you have to adapt, but I think the drawbacks of the MD are now too great to consider using it in planetary conquest.

I'm going to stick with it because perhaps I'll find the sweet spot. Maybe I'll try the KB/M again.

Those saying that the damage didn't get nerfed are incorrect. The Freedom went from 270 to 240 (approximately).

Overall it just seems that they should have tried removing the sharpshooter (range) skill and nerfing the laser a bit then see what happens. How can they get an idea of what to do if they change everything?

Now can we do the right thing and put it back how it WAS??? ffs

This is all I want to know..

The mouse is currently pretty ******, wait till it's fixed or you might have an aneurysm.

From my experience yesterday, people are already basically ignoring my damage. Before the patch it was only Proto suits that could run up on me with impunity, now even militia suits are coming at me.

We'll see what happens. Maybe us MD users will just have to run in pairs.

In the end our problem is Splash more than Damage. Even if our rounds are less effective to shields, the AoE is what makes this weapon suppressive.

Who would pick a weapon that requires to land a direct hit for damage, yet still requires trajectory and speed judgement for each shot? It makes the weapon redundant, even as a suppressive tool.

I have faith CCP are listening and ready to fix this, since there is so much negative feedback on them. But in the meantime I need to give consideration to another weapon until then.

Exactly... tiny pufts of smoke.. Id do better blowin smoke rings out my left nostril at em..

In the end our problem is Splash more than Damage. Even if our rounds are less effective to shields, the AoE is what makes this weapon suppressive.

Who would pick a weapon that requires to land a direct hit for damage, yet still requires trajectory and speed judgement for each shot? It makes the weapon redundant, even as a suppressive tool.

I have faith CCP are listening and ready to fix this, since there is so much negative feedback on them. But in the meantime I need to give consideration to another weapon until then.

MD was my primary weapon last build. 95% of the time it was what I was using. I could use it with my logi or if I wanted to play pure assault. Now the MD is even more of a nitch weapon, it has taken a massive nerf.

Has it ruined the MD? I dont think so, but the MD is now defiantly a situational weapon and while you see a lot of people running with them now I think a LOT will drop away from them. It will take a lot more time to use them proficiently. Damage did not take a nerf, but splash did.

tl:dr

MD did take a good sized nerf, those who have skill with them will still use them to great effect.

The problem is that the splash damage made the weapon an area denial weapon. Right now it doesn't work that way.

It doesn't make people choose a new route to rush you from. They just keep coming.

I was doing great yesterday to be honest. But I don't think it will last. Lots of people are reacting to MD rounds the same way they used to. When they realize that it doesn't hurt their shields they are going to rush and like others have said above, make you ineffective.

I understand that you can use a flux, but in CQ the flux will hurt yourself and your teammates even without FF on.

I also understand that you have to adapt, but I think the drawbacks of the MD are now too great to consider using it in planetary conquest.

I'm going to stick with it because perhaps I'll find the sweet spot. Maybe I'll try the KB/M again.

Those saying that the damage didn't get nerfed are incorrect. The Freedom went from 270 to 240 (approximately).

Overall it just seems that they should have tried removing the sharpshooter (range) skill and nerfing the laser a bit then see what happens. How can they get an idea of what to do if they change everything?

Anyone else notice everything except the AR got a damage nerf?

Hi all,

Juste read a few posts on the first page.

I'm MD lvl5 and proficiency lvl 4, on a Caldari logi suit.

MASS DRIVER ROCKs in this build !!! But I personnaly think that there is a too high penalty on shield damages. The answer to the Mass Driver is FLUX NADE !!!

And the most important : you barely can't play it by yourself, you need to play with a squad. It's not a lonewolf weapon.

Good training ;) !!!

Hi all,

Juste read a few posts on the first page.

I'm MD lvl5 and proficiency lvl 4, on a Caldari logi suit.

MASS DRIVER ROCKs in this build !!! But I personnaly think that there is a too high penalty on shield damages. The answer to the Mass Driver is FLUX NADE !!!

And the most important : you barely can't play it by yourself, you need to play with a squad. It's not a lonewolf weapon.

Good training ;) !!!

This thread is a joke. I run the MD at a proficiency of only lvl 1 and I'm regularly going 21/3, 14/0, 16/3, etc. with the Freedom. I think the worst game I've had with the Freedom was 12/6 with like 18 assists. If you aren't doing well with it, then your aim is off. I've even pissed off my own corp mates using it during q-synced matches. I reply with "you have nothing to complain about anymore since the blast radius got nerfed. You actually have to have SKILL to use it now."

And when PC hits and friendly fire is on, everyone will be rejoicing the fact that the blast radius got nerfed. It will still be a viable weapon in CQC even with corp mates around. If it had the Chromosome blast radius, all MD users would be holding their shots a LOT more so or risk getting yelled at by their own team.

You sir.. are a LIAR

I assume it was you, you basterd! was reading thru this thread and i was thinking to myself wth are people talking bout...met a guy from what a french yesterday who absolutly wrecked everything in his path with MD, i raged quite a bit and cried to myself "nerf" the ********** weapon

Now when i calmed down, i dont want a nerf on it but however some people make it work incredible good... try to adapt

You sir.. are a LIAR

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RucZsGn0W_o

Luckily I had a corp mate recording some matches last night. Here you go. The video isn't of me, but I'm in the match. You can go to the end if you want to just look at end of match screen. I went 11/0 using the Freedom as my primary, and I was pinned down by 2 tanks through part of the match. He recorded another match where I went 12/9 using the standard mass driver as my primary. Maybe you just aren't as good as you thought you were.

I am fully speccd with proficiency and was using an Exo Mass..

I CANT KILL ANYONE PERIOD at ANY range ...

Takes like 6 direct hits to kill anyone .. AND IM TOP OF THE LINE MD..

NO splash damage at all..

This needs to be corrected ASAP.. I dont know what you did to the range.. IM not even going there yet.. BUT the damage and RADIUS is RIDICULOUS>. ABSOLUTELY UNPLAYABLE..

IF you have a different opinion you are WRONG.. bye

I agree, not happy with it at all, it seems the assault rifle is the only thing to survive. I think all the weapons should go back to their original stats. Nerfing anything was a bad move. HMG's are upset, MD's are upset, the only people who aren't upset are the people who went into assault rifles, bring back the variety

well I just went 13 and 4 last game with a fossil militia minmatar blueprint suit, massdriver, and some flux grenades. Worked beautifully. I honestly think that it's more of getting use to it again, it has always sucked against shields. I think you just have to get use to it again. Still the AR is way too OP now and days and everyone and there mom is using them.


Sidenote: 14 kill assist.

the ar is not op

only the tac ar is op...

so your answer to the issue is we are all bad shots.

I just thought a weapon that fires grenades should be able to do comparative splash damage and would be used to hit in an area not direct, unless its the Breach. I just want CCP to tell us what the desired function of the weapon is.

If its an area denial / suppresion type weapon then I think it needs to be looked at. Throwing grenades shouldnt be a better option.

Every light weapon (and the HMG) took a damage nerf... except the AR. That makes it OP by default.

[quote=Daxxis KANNAH][quote

It sounds as though most of you are bad shots, yes. Tons of people on this thread say the weapon is unusable, which is just not the case. And I don't think I can say this enough. It is a GOOD thing the MD got a blast radius nerf. Because when PC hits and friendly fire is on, you want to be hitting your enemy and not your own team. It didn't need the damage nerf though, but whatever. It still works.

the reg ar is fine right now the tac ar got a damage raise and hmgs did to much damage really fast anyways and they still do lots of damage.

what u pl really should have been complaining about its damage mods..

they make every gun seem over powered..

if u got obliterated really fast and u have decent shields and armor u likely got killed by some1 with 20 stacked damage mods.

ar never really needed damage mods as its effective enough as is.
of course im using free miltia fits and im pwning but that's just cause I actually have skill...

if u want to complain about op weps blame damage mods they make weps op...

Been trying them on an alt... quite disappointing.
Sure splash damage is a big advantage, but the range, firing arc, and low DPS compared to the AR (even with direct hits) balanced it. Now it seems like a pointless trinket for novelty, not something actually meant to be used for serious conflicts.

And then there's the ammo, when a weapon takes ~4 rounds to kill and holds ~18 rounds it's useful life is very limited and supply dependent. The ammo limit was a great balancing aspect prior to the nerf, now it's more like insult to injury.

And we haven't even talked about trying to fight an opponent who has any elevation advantage.

I would like to hear CCP explain what battlefield role they see the Mass Driver filling and how this nerf properly supports that role while still keeping the weapon viable.... because quite frankly I don't see that it does either.

0.02 ISK
Cross

1. all weapon do less damage because weaponry does not increase damage any more.

2. lets be honest, the all MD was just too good. I used it before and often I was sitting somewhere and aiming at the general direction of an enemy squad trying to take an objective and I was collecting kills left and right due to the huge splash without a big effort and no chance of retaliation. the "nerf" brings it on par of other weapons, now you have to aim better thats all.

Anyone else notice everything except the AR got a damage nerf?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RucZsGn0W_o

Luckily I had a corp mate recording some matches last night. Here you go. The video isn't of me, but I'm in the match. You can go to the end if you want to just look at end of match screen. I went 11/0 using the Freedom as my primary, and I was pinned down by 2 tanks through part of the match. He recorded another match where I went 12/9 using the standard mass driver as my primary. Maybe you just aren't as good as you thought you were.

Because hes a fraud..

HIs MD skills are Garbage..

Dude as a fellow MD enthusiast, I want to like you. But you're acting like a spoiled 12 year old throwing a tantrum because his mom canceled his WoW account. Chill out, take a deep breath and help us figure out a solution instead of pouting.

Anyway, I've been screwing around with the MD and noticed how drastically straighter the trajectory is now. It seems like they're trying to make it into a slayer weapon when it shouldn't be. Instead of shooting from the hip, I've found with practice it's easier to actually ADS, aiming just a few degrees higher or lower depending on elevation and consistently landing direct hits. This could explain why they felt the need for the damage and radius nerf.

Before, we used to aim upward and lob rounds, making the larger blast radius and high damage almost a necessity. Now, it's much easier to hit your mark. After a while with the standards and assaults, I thought "what if..." Bingo! The breach is a freaking monster now! Seriously, take some time to get used to the more straight trajectory, focus on trick shooting at targets and get used to it. But even with all this said, I miss the awkward trajectory and larger blast radius from Chrome. Turning the MD into a slayer weapon when it wasn't being used as one was a bad move in my opinion.

Also, to add insult to injury, people are actually picking it up for the first time and getting kills easily and thinking that it really was a noob tube in Chromosome. It's making us all look bad.

Funny how the video got pulled. I wonder why.

Thank you. Finally something constructive. I've found that I do 10x better using the Freedom rather than the EX0. If you had read into my posts, you'd see that I've been saying this the whole time. Perhaps all of you should try builds with it rather than the EX0. I'm starting to think the Freedom has higher stats than it states. I promise it makes a drastic difference.

I'll reiterate this basic point again as I have done in various threads regarding all sorts of weapons and game mechanics.

Balance needs to be derived from the average not the outliers. What this means in a general context is that if you are in the top 20% then you are not an appropriate case for balance assessments. Nefing things so the they "take skill" (i.e. are significantly more difficult to use) for those with the top gun game is bad game design. It's net effect is to take those few who are already excelling and give them an even greater advantage. This creates more pub stomps, red lines, and blow outs. Meaning that ultimately this creates a more boring play experience and diminishes the over all player population.

Not all weapons function the same, nor should they. Weapons, like any of the other gear, or indeed many of the skills in Dust ideally should fill a role and be evaluated with regards to the success in that role. At bear minimum evaluations need to be more complex than is "X weapon good/bad" and they certainly need more context then anecdotal debates between various players about their KDR in a smattering of matches (matches which often aren't even put in any sort of context).

Balance is about game health, not personal preference, a specific play style or a singular feature/role.

Consider this a request to for all concerned to provide detailed, sober feedback within explicit context, and hopefully to do so with a focus on the macro level of the game rather than simply on their own personal reactions.

0.02 ISK
Cross

I don't understand what you all are saying regarding them making the MD a slayer weapon. How can a reduction of all relevant stats make it more effective at killing people?

It's doubtful that there was any rationale behind these changes aside from "Well, as long as we're tweaking values, let's adjust these too." This is just a thoughtless nerf. If it was some sort of holistic balance attempt, then the smoke trail wouldn't be following the old trajectory path.

Because before, the trajectory had more of a falloff which required arcing the weapon upwards and lobbing rounds. The larger blast radius was necessary because aiming required more skill than just point, ADS, collect kill. Even with the awkwardness it brought on utility purposes with the larger blast radius. Also, back in Chromosome, splash damage was calculated on a 2-D plane for all splash damage weapons which made the MD rounds not register damage on a target that had so much of a pixel of incline or elevation. It was a skill based weapon with a high learning curve and very useful for squad tactics like pinning enemies down for heavies and scouts to close in or simply herding an enemy squad from a downed teammate for logistics to raise them.

Now, since the grenades fly straighter, it's much easier to land direct hits that you couldn't in Chromosome at the cost of the splash radius and damage (10% damage buff in hot fix helped) which causes the weapon to lose its finesse when used for a support role. Being able to land direct hits makes it much easier to kill with the MD meaning that it has been reverted to a slayer weapon at the cost to what made it special: area denial and support.

This blanket statement just points out that all you did was read the OP and maybe just skimmed the rest of the fist page. The problem with the mass driver isn't because it's not this super OP weapon that got nerfed. The problem is the tactical aspects and utility of the weapon has been traded for the ability to slay. Please go further in the topic and read some of the more recent posts. We've been trying to find out the direction the Devs took the MD and why we disagree with it.

My 0.4 ISK

Cosgar

I would like to hear CCP explain what battlefield role they see the Mass Driver filling and how this nerf properly supports that role while still keeping the weapon viable.... because quite frankly I don't see that it does either.

0.02 ISK
Cross

As I've stated elsewhere I had fewer skills (both SP and Levels) into MD in the last build than I do in Uprising and my Freedom now works almost as well as my EXO did then (excluding the price point in both ISK and CPU/PG).
Besides the overall drop in effectiveness the role of the weapon has been nerfed. Dust will live or die by it's diversity and the ability of players to make 'risk v reward' choices. The way this change was handled is been a kick in the pants to both of those (and the poor Heavies got it even worse

SO its constructive to say "this thread is a joke" and You just cant aim.. thats troll ****.. and im not here to make any friends.. Im here to help this game progress in a positive way.. I just felt it was necessary to point out that the guy saying I cant Aim and my thread is a joke.. GETS HIS .... handed to him each and EVERY time he meets up with me..

Im here to represent my weapon which I know better than anyone.. just check time played with this weapon.. and since Ive never seen anyone do as well as I with it.. I cant think of anyone better to represent this gun.. sorry if this offends, maybe I never played against/with you yet..

Ive tried to make my point as clear as possible, but Im not gonna stand by and let tiny insignificant trolls run this game into the ground..

Thanks for your support ACTUAL Mass Driver users...

Okay I give in/don't care anymore. Give us the old MDs back. I killed with them then, and I kill with them now. If it makes the rest of my fellow MD users happy, then let's have it back the way it was. I just got tired of being called a noob tuber, people saying that I used a noob tube, or that the weapon took no skill to use because of the insane splash damage. But whatever, like I said, I don't care anymore.

Please tell me ur not populating the world with more trolls?

Know you or killed you ..lol are u serious.. When you rock a MD you tend to notice when your kill line looks like this

Smokeythebear Mass Driver: M@SS DRIVER

Lol... I hate you in real life.. as a person..not a gamer .. hahaha (i know im feeding the trolls)

Dude, you're in my corp. I know there's like 700 of us but wtf. If you had read on the keq forums, I asked cody already why he pulled it. I haven't had a chance to speak to him yet though.

This blanket statement just points out that all you did was read the OP and maybe just skimmed the rest of the fist page. The problem with the mass driver isn't because it's not this super OP weapon that got nerfed. The problem is the tactical aspects and utility of the weapon has been traded for the ability to slay. Please go further in the topic and read some of the more recent posts. We've been trying to find out the direction the Devs took the MD and why we disagree with it.

My 0.4 ISK

Cosgar

What 'ability to slay' stats got worse not better. It's not like direct damage was buffed and AoE got nerfed. MD took only nerf and no buff in any aspect. Please, clarify what you mean when you say that now it has turned from support to slayer weapon. All I see is that the 'slaying' is the same or worse (read, direct damage) and support got severely nerfed (read, AOE/Splash). Or maybe I did not understand what you meant.

*puts dev hat on for a second*

With the new trajectory, rounds fly straighter, making it easier to land a direct hit. If it dealt the damage it did in Chrome, the MD would probably would be OP, so they nerfed it. By that same logic, since it flies straighter to its intended target, they decided to nerf the splash damage to compensate because we don't need the extra help with finding our targets anymore. So in a way, the Mass Driver is more like an RPG than a the M-32 it used to be. It's much easier to get kills, but at the cost of usefulness in its support role we all used it for.

Edit:
@Cross: It takes a big man to make a decision, but a better man to own up to it. No worries man, we're cool.

Wait what? Rounds flying straighter does not make it easier to get kills.. quite the opposite on flat ground with no dropoff its hard as hell to hit their feet.. (picture yourself in an open flat field)..and the range nerf makes that a very low % shot... as well as when hitting the wall beside them.. no blast radius means the wall eats it.. and enemy walks away..

And as another poster just pointed out AGAIN.. how does an overall across the board nerf in any way change the role? or anything else that sounds nice? it is what it is..

Are you absolutely positive that you are hitting people in the head and chest and their body is causing the grenade to explode? Maybe I need to go back and do some test games, but last time I checked they were still going THROUGH the enemy.. either way.. theres no way im going to be using a MD that becomes necessary to get a head shot with..

Even with all these discoveries, I would trade those kills for the arcing trajectory and some of the damage and radius back. We probably don't need all of the radius since the terrain glitch is fixed, but we need a little more oomph in damage to be threatening and a little more blast radius for area denial. If I cared about kills, I'd be using a TAR right now. I picked the MD for tactics and utility.

To be perfectly honest, I'm a little baffled at what's happened with the Mass Driver. The reason for the splash and blast range nerf was that in playtests we found the MD to be so effective that at one point almost half the people in the office were using it in battles. Clearly, that's not been the case with Uprising and after getting the engineers to go elbow deep into the code it appears there may be a few reasons beyond dry numbers that are contributing to the MDs underwhelming performance.

One, there appears to be a de-sync between client and server so that (more often than it should) the server and client think the projectile exploded in different places. They're not far off, but enough so that shots you *think* are spot on are off the mark enough to do only minor splash damage. And two, I'm told splash occlusion is getting blocked by a single player character more than it should, contributing to the "randomness" of the damage dealt and the sometimes smudgy feeling of the weapon.

I'm hesitant to rebalance the weapon until we get these issues looked at (which is happening right now).

THANK GOD!!!!!! they looking into it.. But please I really must BEG you to re-balance it.. Give us the old ARC in trajectory,splash and 3d radius, and the range too.. The damage is the least of my concerns

and lol.. side note.."half the office using it" .. great minds think alike.. OO pz give char names!! I sooo wanna PWN u...

I've already compiled some suggestions from this topic in that thread. Let me know if I missed anything in my post and I'll go back to edit it.

Hello,

Prior to uprising I had mass drivers up to five and the spec to three. Mass drivers had great effect and they had two variants. Tight blast radius high damage or great blast radius but low damage. Considering these guns are not the average point and shoot variety in which bullet goes in straight line and hits target next to immediately it was considers a good thing that it had the blast radius.

Good shots with it where rewarded whit Nice chunks of HP taken away from the opponent when they used the high damage variety and poor shots could benefit from the low damage variety as a sort of support damage/ area of denial type of thing to help the team out as well as get in some war points.

As it stands in uprising, I skilled my mass drivers up to 5 and spec to 2. I knew they had been nerfed before putting my skill points there but hey, I'm not the best shot and prefer the area of effect aspect even if it was halved. As it stands, the high damage models keep being that High damage tight radius but the low damage ones are too far into the tighter range than should have been made.

One shot of the low damage high Explosion radius of the mass driver does 70 base splash damage. Considering it is a grenade launcher one would expect these explosions to be at least as wide as the grenades we throw. It's now game breaking in the sense that it does almost 1 tenth of what an actual grenade would do taking ten shots to get anything done with splash damage.

If you also factor in damage reduction to shield, you have a weapon that does less than 1 tenth the damage to any group of people than a grenade would do.

Bring back old radius, it was not bad. Lower Splash damage or direct damage if needed, as it stands it is not an area of denial weapon as much as a water balloon thrower, mind you i get kills with it, but it's not effective at it's role.

went back to see if things got better...

Umm no.. off the top of my head WOW the ar's are like 2 shotting me.. ffs.. Did heavys get a buff? they seem pretty damn powerful again.. maybe im totally off here.. even saw a couple snipers back on the BF (they saw me)

As far as MD goes.. I wanted to add this.. There seems to be a slight lag from trigger press to launch.. it just doesnt come out the barrel right.. sometimes looks ok.. mostly not.. so either very SLOW or Laggy.. not sure.. sometimes the grenades launches from where you were just standing if looks like...

Anyways.. real drag.. I guess since we dont have the #'s like the heavys (i have a heavy btw) we dont get the same consideration?

Is anyone else experiencing a glitch of where the smoke lands when you fire and where the explosion happening being two different places?

I haven't noticed. Does this occur at specific ranges?

Leave damage as is, increase the radius. MDs should not be doing the killing. Only assisting with it.

Is anyone else experiencing a glitch of where the smoke lands when you fire and where the explosion happening being two different places?

BS..lol you wouldnt say that if you used a MD

Wait what? Rounds flying straighter does not make it easier to get kills.. quite the opposite on flat ground with no dropoff its hard as hell to hit their feet.. (picture yourself in an open flat field)..and the range nerf makes that a very low % shot... as well as when hitting the wall beside them.. no blast radius means the wall eats it.. and enemy walks away..

And as another poster just pointed out AGAIN.. how does an overall across the board nerf in any way change the role? or anything else that sounds nice? it is what it is..

BS..lol you wouldnt say that if you used a MD

The truth of the matter is that MD should be both. When you want to play support - for example in PI when your corp relies on you and you need coordinated team play with specialization, I think AoE - regular or assault MD are excellent for crowd control. But when you are playing solo in a pub match and just want to hone your skills with MD, you should be able to use Breach MD for direct hits and slaying. It does not have to be either AoE crowd control or direct slaying.

Another point I want to make is that ppl tend to talk about Freedom MD mostly. And of all MD I think Freedom did come close to being OP. In general I against 'win buttons' in FPS. With Freedom you could both slay and crowd control - I think this kind of gameplay probably led CCP to nerf tho whole weapon class. I personally would be ok if they kept the regular MD nerfed but gave a buff to Breach and Assault to emphasize specialization. And if you remember there has always been terrible imbalance between different types of MD - the regular was staple and both assault and Breach were its gimp cousins that no one wanted to touch. So maybe now would be good time to fix this.

Good news!

Remnant is looking into the Mass Driver:

You're missing the big picture here: The MD was both support, and a slayer weapon when it needed to be in public matches. Taking a page out of Keyser's book, judging a weapon based on public matches is counterproductive. The Freedom is a prototype, of course it's going to deal more damage to lower tiered or poorly fitted suits in pubs. But in corp battles, the entire MD line couldn't be used as a slayer weapon when everyone ran higher quality gear. In CBs, it was a support, area denial weapon exclusively and not a slayer.
The main problem is that the MD has lost its arcing trajectory, splash radius, and splash damage in exchange focus on the slayer role. Rounds fly straighter and the MD plays like a mid ranged, gimped, low ROF, inferior DPS, AR that just happens to shoot grenades. This change has made the breach more viable, because it's easier to make direct hits, but the whole MD line has taken an unnecessary blow in utility and tactical uses.
The lower radius and superficial splash damage stripped away the weapon's intimidating properties that were necessary for scattering bunched up squads, flushing out campers, defending areas, or simply herding the enemy away from a downed teammate. The MD is not the support weapon it once was. If I wanted more kills, I would be using a TAR with stacked damage mods and a modded controller. I hear that's working wonders these days since the blanket 10% damage bonus on weapons.
I do agree that the breach needed something to make it more viable. For months, I've been suggesting that it needed a straighter trajectory and/or a significantly faster flying projectile than its brothers to make landing direct hits easier. The entire MD line didn't need to change for this.

Well I think everything is relative. To me it felt that Freedom MD was something like Duvolle AR - an unnecessarily powerful weapon. Sure you could argue the opposite 'if there are weapons like Duvolle in AR world, there is gotta be an MD that's as dominant in the MD world'. But that's just a matter of your view of the game mechanics in Dust in general and not pertinent to MD discussion we are having right now as far as I am concerned. In the ideal world I would like to see that all proto weapons are weaker. Again, it's a matter of opinion and belongs in a different thread.

Also I don't think I am arguing against your point at all. I say that different version of MD are for different things. I believe that the balance should be such that depending on your play style you should be able to as effectively use the regular MD for crowd control and Breach for slaying - the game is not suffering from having both, so long as they are not coming from a single weapon. As far as MD being gimped too much - I am glad CCP issued a statement that the game code for MD was broken accounting for its weakness in games. It seems to me CCP is promising that MD is actually balanced and that they will work first on fixing the code and second on adjusting stats if MD is still weak after the code is fixed. Maybe with the code fixed MD would regain its crown control ability - I know the stats argue against it but I am still hopeful.

Third point: I think giving reg MD and breach different tragectories would be a mistake. It would be very hard to adjust from switching back and forth. A faster traveling round for breach - yes definitely. I would also say go back to 4 round drup for Breach but increase ROF since in CQC you would want to hit high burst damage rather than sustain steady DPS for longer.

As a Heavy user who helped wage the numbers campaign to make CCP see the error of their ways:

I feel ya brother.

The players I affectionately refer to as "Massholes" were the bane of my heavy existence in the last build. Even as a nerfed HMG heavy at the start of uprising, it felt like Mass Drivers didn't have the teeth I used to remember them having.

From what I'm reading, MDs are something like a smaller Forge Gun now (you need perfect aim to get a brutal kill), when instead it should be the support area denial weapon others have referred to in this thread.

Hope they look into it for you guys.

Good news!

Remnant is looking into the Mass Driver:

There's a nice discussion going on here so I hate to interrupt, but what I'm finding with the Freedom is a lack of consistency. Some matches I do well and others I feel like launching my controller through the TV.

There are times when dudes are down to nothing and they are still charging me. I'm putting them at their feet and it does nothing. I end up running out of ammo and having to run or die.

I've tried being much more careful, but I'm having to spam so many rounds its eating up my nano hives.

In the last build there were people always saying, that shot was badass. Now It's dumb luck if I kill anybody beyond 10 or 20 meters.

I really can't believe they haven't even commented on the nerf to the MD.

Overall it's making me a poor team player. As a logi the inability to consistently hit targets is effecting my logi work. I go into an "I'm gonna get you sucka" mode. Maybe I just suck, but there seems to be a inconsistency with the splash radius. Skilled up it should be around 10 feet for the Freedom. Nobody can suck bad enough to miss somebody with no HP left standing right in front of them.

I'll be on later tonight to test it out further on you SOBs. Take it easy on me, it seems like I'm lobbing non lethal rounds.

So, yes. And I am sure we ll have a lot of good games together. But what you are posting here is a different matter.

All I see is ppl run around spam Duvole TAR. I try to use breach MD and get tish for results and I used to do good with the weapon. And you are telling eveyone that MD is the same or even better than before. I don't know - maybe you figured out a way to use it in the new build. Obviously its mechanics have changed, so it's possible. But when you say that all of the ppl in this thread have no skill with the weapon and MD actually shines and is borderline OP and it's ppl's lack of skill that's to blame - you are actually talking to ppl who used MD as their primary weapon for a good while, so that's insulting to a lot of us. As support for your argument you are giving a link that's not working. So it's just not constructive at all.

I wonder what Kill'em quick's policy on PR is... Mass Driver is doing KEQ wonders :)

On another note, I think that some of the problems with the rounds have been happening well before Uprising, and the blast radius nerf just exacerbated the effects. Especially when it has to do with a round not exploding where it's intended. I also talked about the rounds going through people back in Chromosome. It was my first post on these forums: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=507802#post507802.

Here is the thread where Smokey trolled me. If anyone else can test what I wrote about, I think it's part of the problem too. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=781115#post781115 Not sure why the other link didn't work.

I've noticed this especially when firing from the high ground. If you fire past around 50 meters, the shells don't explode. They slide along the ground until they hit something else like a wall and then explode. Easiest way to test this is on Ashlands. Start at B and head towards D. When you get to the wall, fire a round down to the ground a little past halfway to D. The round won't explode but will slide in a straight line to the D outer frame.

I haven't noticed this as much when firing that far on level ground. But that may be because at that distance, it's just a little difficult to see.

I am fully speccd with proficiency and was using an Exo Mass..

I CANT KILL ANYONE PERIOD at ANY range ...

Takes like 6 direct hits to kill anyone .. AND IM TOP OF THE LINE MD..

NO splash damage at all..

This needs to be corrected ASAP.. I dont know what you did to the range.. IM not even going there yet.. BUT the damage and RADIUS is RIDICULOUS>. ABSOLUTELY UNPLAYABLE..

IF you have a different opinion you are WRONG.. bye

EDIT: I know thats not being very specific.. so here you go..

Ok look let me try to break this down a bit more in depth..

Problems in order from Worst to least

TRAJECTORY: If im standing in a perfectly flat open field with no walls/rocks etc.. and my target is directly in front of me, my only choice is to hit his feet... and i gotta be very accurate .. since the weapon now shoots straight forward this makes it very difficult to land accurately... *remember we are already at a huge disadvantage on terrain with hills whether we are looking up (impossible) or down ..even if we manage to snag a rock outcropping and make it close to him.. the texture bug usually eats it up..WE NEED OLD TRAJECTORY BACK


RADIUS: (width AND height) This is where most of my frustration sets in.. Ok so we know you don't aim AT the MAN.. because for some reason even if you directly hit him it goes THRU him .. So all MD users have to aim at a wall or the floor.. I think when I started to really excel at this weapon was when i became proficient at hitting these walls at just the right time etc.. BIG PROBLEM.. the blasts are not radiating out correctly (or have been nerfed so hard as to not work) ..
EXAMPLE: theres a guy 10 feet away with his back to a wall .. I hit the wall and hes not injured.. Or BARELY injured ..where in the past that was a KILL/ huge dmg depending on suit/ shield etc.. Ive heard people saying its just a flat .. not 3D blast radius now.. that makes sense and is DRIVING ME NUTS...


RANGE: This gun at the top level needs to have waaay more range. A MD cannot effectively deny an area if they cant shoot more than 50 feet.. Ive had my shots "fading" into the distance at very close ranges.. the range was fine before..

DAMAGE: Ok Ive been thinking about this alot and.. I (holding with the last builds balance) This gun needs to

1. Be effective at lower levels

2. At the level 5 Proficiency with dmg mods this gun needs to have ability for 1 shot 1 kill on the "weaker" builds, this enables people at lower levels to be able to perform area denial with some success.. (this is why i loved this gun, because even when I was 1milllion SP's I could do some WORK) this got me hooked and kept me in the game.. then the payoff came when I was able to get Proficiency up with Dmg mods..


CONCLUSION
This weapon was pretty much perfect as it was conceived originally.. (kudos to the guy who invented the mechanics of this gun because it WAS original and DAMN fun) .. And im sure he felt a slight twinge when 50% arbitrary reduction nerfs completely ruined his VERY precise and balanced stats... I dont know how hard it would be to just copy and paste the exact stats from previous build and hit APPLY would be.. but thats the solution to this WEAPON ending patch..

Thank you and goodnight..

* I really could go on and on about all the bugs and stuff that I didnt even cover, but this is just what comes to mind ATM

Because I love you too much MASS DR1V3R...

How Bout u stop using a noob toob and run a differnt weapon

Yeah, I've been noticing that. Don't quote me on this but I think that could be attributed to the scanning and scanning precision nerf.
Also, has anyone noticed that your rounds will occasionally not deplete your clip? I was doing some target practice today and started to realize that every once in a while there will be a "phantom round" that doesn't get counted. It still travels and detonates, but it doesn't count towards my ammunition. Pay more attention to how many shots you fire so I know I'm not crazy.

I've seen that 'phantom round' effect multiple times this weekend. It seems to occur after a fresh spawn, with the first shot. At least thats where i noticed it. It was noticeable because i would fire a round and still be at 6. I'm not sure if its just a display bug with the ammo counter or if the ammo didn't get used. We can try and pay attention to the reload and see if that tells us.

I am fully speccd with proficiency and was using an Exo Mass..

I CANT KILL ANYONE PERIOD at ANY range ...

Takes like 6 direct hits to kill anyone .. AND IM TOP OF THE LINE MD..

NO splash damage at all..

This needs to be corrected ASAP.. I dont know what you did to the range.. IM not even going there yet.. BUT the damage and RADIUS is RIDICULOUS>. ABSOLUTELY UNPLAYABLE..

IF you have a different opinion you are WRONG.. bye

EDIT: I know thats not being very specific.. so here you go..

Ok look let me try to break this down a bit more in depth..

Problems in order from Worst to least

TRAJECTORY: If im standing in a perfectly flat open field with no walls/rocks etc.. and my target is directly in front of me, my only choice is to hit his feet... and i gotta be very accurate .. since the weapon now shoots straight forward this makes it very difficult to land accurately... *remember we are already at a huge disadvantage on terrain with hills whether we are looking up (impossible) or down ..even if we manage to snag a rock outcropping and make it close to him.. the texture bug usually eats it up..WE NEED OLD TRAJECTORY BACK


RADIUS: (width AND height) This is where most of my frustration sets in.. Ok so we know you don't aim AT the MAN.. because for some reason even if you directly hit him it goes THRU him .. So all MD users have to aim at a wall or the floor.. I think when I started to really excel at this weapon was when i became proficient at hitting these walls at just the right time etc.. BIG PROBLEM.. the blasts are not radiating out correctly (or have been nerfed so hard as to not work) ..
EXAMPLE: theres a guy 10 feet away with his back to a wall .. I hit the wall and hes not injured.. Or BARELY injured ..where in the past that was a KILL/ huge dmg depending on suit/ shield etc.. Ive heard people saying its just a flat .. not 3D blast radius now.. that makes sense and is DRIVING ME NUTS...


RANGE: This gun at the top level needs to have waaay more range. A MD cannot effectively deny an area if they cant shoot more than 50 feet.. Ive had my shots "fading" into the distance at very close ranges.. the range was fine before..

DAMAGE: Ok Ive been thinking about this alot and.. I (holding with the last builds balance) This gun needs to

1. Be effective at lower levels

2. At the level 5 Proficiency with dmg mods this gun needs to have ability for 1 shot 1 kill on the "weaker" builds, this enables people at lower levels to be able to perform area denial with some success.. (this is why i loved this gun, because even when I was 1milllion SP's I could do some WORK) this got me hooked and kept me in the game.. then the payoff came when I was able to get Proficiency up with Dmg mods..


CONCLUSION
This weapon was pretty much perfect as it was conceived originally.. (kudos to the guy who invented the mechanics of this gun because it WAS original and DAMN fun) .. And im sure he felt a slight twinge when 50% arbitrary reduction nerfs completely ruined his VERY precise and balanced stats... I dont know how hard it would be to just copy and paste the exact stats from previous build and hit APPLY would be.. but thats the solution to this WEAPON ending patch..

Thank you and goodnight..

* I really could go on and on about all the bugs and stuff that I didnt even cover, but this is just what comes to mind ATM

I haven't seen it recently, but when I experienced it it was a display issue - sortof.

You would use the round, but the client wouldn't think so, which means you can't reload. Once you fire a second time, you will see that you've consumed 2 rounds, and can now reload.

I've seen this on the MD many times, but it's a real ***** when you get it on the Breach Shotgun.

Ok I just heard they are rolling back all the MD' nerfs AND on top of that.. just as a show of gratitude for fighting so hard to keep DUST balanced for them.. ..... ....

THey are BUFFING the MD even beyond last patch.. AND are adding a whole new line OF MD"s that are all capable of 1 shot 1 kill .. after skilling into them ofc.. With HUGE splash damage.. omg .. THANK YOU SOO MUCH CCP!!1

Link PLZ!

its because people increas their shields so much that they will survive an entire clip most of the time. i got a HEADSHOT on a LOGISTICS with a freaking GRENADE LAUNCHER and he still had 352 armor. remove health increases or give sheild extenders a penalty. maybe reduced armor on complex extenders.

Ok I just heard they are rolling back all the MD' nerfs AND on top of that.. just as a show of gratitude for fighting so hard to keep DUST balanced for them.. ..... ....

THey are BUFFING the MD even beyond last patch.. AND are adding a whole new line OF MD"s that are all capable of 1 shot 1 kill .. after skilling into them ofc.. With HUGE splash damage.. omg .. THANK YOU SOO MUCH CCP!!1

So how about now? Link PLEASE!

I haven't tried out the MD yet. It would be interesting to experience to shoot a MD and have it not arc like it used to. I'm glad they're taking a look at it if what everyone is saying is true.

Ok I just heard they are rolling back all the MD' nerfs AND on top of that.. just as a show of gratitude for fighting so hard to keep DUST balanced for them.. ..... ....

THey are BUFFING the MD even beyond last patch.. AND are adding a whole new line OF MD"s that are all capable of 1 shot 1 kill .. after skilling into them ofc.. With HUGE splash damage.. omg .. THANK YOU SOO MUCH CCP!!1

O man.. I thought you said they changed it with the update??? its Still CRAPpeeee...

I am fully speccd with proficiency and was using an Exo Mass..

I CANT KILL ANYONE PERIOD at ANY range ...

Takes like 6 direct hits to kill anyone .. AND IM TOP OF THE LINE MD..

NO splash damage at all..

This needs to be corrected ASAP.. I dont know what you did to the range.. IM not even going there yet.. BUT the damage and RADIUS is RIDICULOUS>. ABSOLUTELY UNPLAYABLE..

IF you have a different opinion you are WRONG.. bye

EDIT: I know thats not being very specific.. so here you go..

Ok look let me try to break this down a bit more in depth..

Problems in order from Worst to least

TRAJECTORY: If im standing in a perfectly flat open field with no walls/rocks etc.. and my target is directly in front of me, my only choice is to hit his feet... and i gotta be very accurate .. since the weapon now shoots straight forward this makes it very difficult to land accurately... *remember we are already at a huge disadvantage on terrain with hills whether we are looking up (impossible) or down ..even if we manage to snag a rock outcropping and make it close to him.. the texture bug usually eats it up..WE NEED OLD TRAJECTORY BACK


RADIUS: (width AND height) This is where most of my frustration sets in.. Ok so we know you don't aim AT the MAN.. because for some reason even if you directly hit him it goes THRU him .. So all MD users have to aim at a wall or the floor.. I think when I started to really excel at this weapon was when i became proficient at hitting these walls at just the right time etc.. BIG PROBLEM.. the blasts are not radiating out correctly (or have been nerfed so hard as to not work) ..
EXAMPLE: theres a guy 10 feet away with his back to a wall .. I hit the wall and hes not injured.. Or BARELY injured ..where in the past that was a KILL/ huge dmg depending on suit/ shield etc.. Ive heard people saying its just a flat .. not 3D blast radius now.. that makes sense and is DRIVING ME NUTS...


RANGE: This gun at the top level needs to have waaay more range. A MD cannot effectively deny an area if they cant shoot more than 50 feet.. Ive had my shots "fading" into the distance at very close ranges.. the range was fine before..

DAMAGE: Ok Ive been thinking about this alot and.. I (holding with the last builds balance) This gun needs to

1. Be effective at lower levels

2. At the level 5 Proficiency with dmg mods this gun needs to have ability for 1 shot 1 kill on the "weaker" builds, this enables people at lower levels to be able to perform area denial with some success.. (this is why i loved this gun, because even when I was 1milllion SP's I could do some WORK) this got me hooked and kept me in the game.. then the payoff came when I was able to get Proficiency up with Dmg mods..


CONCLUSION
This weapon was pretty much perfect as it was conceived originally.. (kudos to the guy who invented the mechanics of this gun because it WAS original and DAMN fun) .. And im sure he felt a slight twinge when 50% arbitrary reduction nerfs completely ruined his VERY precise and balanced stats... I dont know how hard it would be to just copy and paste the exact stats from previous build and hit APPLY would be.. but thats the solution to this WEAPON ending patch..

Thank you and goodnight..

* I really could go on and on about all the bugs and stuff that I didnt even cover, but this is just what comes to mind ATM

Is there still MD player out there... ? Here is my two cents as to why the MD is broken...

Ok... first thing first, I'm a long time MD player, was in the closed beta, still am today, will stay like that or I'll find another game to play or run after cats in dark alleys... I'll be MD or do something else with my life... I liked the challenged it was providing me ... now it's rather frustration... I like my games to be fun... not frustrating... I got plenty of the last one already at my job ... i don't need it in my free / leisure time...

My Dropsuit :
Assault Dropsuit (proto), Shield Extenders and Armor Plates, Primary MD (exo or freedom) and Secondary SMG (toxin), Flux and Nanohives.

Ok... I manage to do ok... but this as NOTHING to do with the fact that I'm using a mass driver... nothing, nada, niet, rien, quedale, zero ... and, don't get me wrong, you'll see a LOT of Mass Driver players out there doing just "ok", but good luck finding one dominating... they are just doing ok...

Do you know why they're doing ok? Because they are using FLUX grenades! Not because they have a MD... That really important... I'm getting almost as many kill with my SMG (not upgraded with one SP) than with my lvl 5 MD + lvl 2 proficiency...

Basically, if you choose to go MD... well your dropsuit built is already decided for you... You will do NO good on the battlefield if you don't have equiped ** Flux Grenades ** & ** Upgraded Nanohives **

That... yeah THAT... is a clear sign to me that something is wrong here with the MD. I have to compensate the weakness of the MD with the Flux... I'm not killing players with my MD... noooooo I'm killing them with Flux... i'm just poking / kissing/ finishing/ caressing them to death with my MD or as often with my SMD lvl1 ...

The other sign to me that something is not right with the MD is that I'm using the exo5 being lvl 5 in mass driver and proficiency lvl 2... The last 3-4 mass drivers are so much crap it's ridiculous... Why did I invest so many SP point to get guns weaker than the low level exo 5 ??? Seriously??? I got a 5% radius increase per level... but 5% of nothing... is not much you know...

PLEASE oh please...

1) Increase the blast radius of MD, else I might as well hit them with my fists...

2) Bring back a curved trajectory... it will make it harder to hit, but that's the point of the MD... trajectory estimation !!! that's what's fun and gratifying about it.

3) Make the last MD worth using please... Why would I spend so much SP, ISK, CPU and PG on mass driver higher in level but lower on the the battlefield?

Please DO something...

11 page and still NOTHING.. not even a freakin response? seriously? At this point.. im quitting the game completely.. My alts will not play...

My friends ALREADY quit.. ANd I'll make sure not to recommend this game to anyone ..

THE GAME AS IT IS= GARBAGE...

and I wont lower myself to play this crap if this kind of treatment is normal day to day business for CCP..

BYE and I hope you go bankrupt..

If I was CCP I wouldnt respond to this garbage either. threats and tears=low priority. Try sounding like something besides a spoiled child, might work out better for you.