DUST Search - Mass Driver is unplayable ..SERIOUSLY BS

martinofski wrote:

XxGhazbaranxX wrote:

CCP Wolfman wrote:

Cosgar wrote:

Once the desynch issues are fixed, could you please just revert the MD back to how it was in Chromosome? There was absolutely nothing wrong with the weapon. It was balanced enough for players good with it to stand out and had a huge learning curve for anyone who would think it was an "I win button."

The thing is, both those issues were also present in Chromosome. With the old values and these problems fixed I think we might have a monster on our hands Smile

That's why we'll be conducting tests to see what kind of impact the fixes have on the weapons performance before we make a decision on any changes.

CCP Wolfman

Prototype mass drivers

Oh yes quite a monster with a splash radius of 4 meters and 100 splash damage on the prototype and that's the high damage low radius one or you mean a monster with 78 splash damage with 5 meter radius, cause no other weapon can deal so much damage right. On top of that you have to compensate for travel time of the projectile. Also They are very week against shields.

Edit: They also have maximum of 8 rounds in the chamber for the high radius low damage variety vs the assault rifle that gets dozens of rounds.

Prototype AR

Assault rifle prototype 78 direct damage and 700+ bullets per minute at 60+ meters for a total of 910 damage per second without including skills, small travel time on the projectile and almost no shield damage penalty is no monster of course. I hope you understand my sarcasm.

TL;DR

Mass Drivers where fine in chromosome.

At the same time I see perfectly your sarcasm, I do also feel you are comparing only the basics and making the TAR shine a little bit to much.

With the Chromosome MD, you could (which can't be done with a AR:
- Direct hit people, not only dealing splash damages
- Damage people getting covered
- Damage people on the other side of a corner.
- Damage more than 1 people in a single shot, Direct hit on one, splash on others.

I am definitely not saying the TAR ins't ok as is, but I don't think you can just say bring it back as it was when CCP is telling you they are fixing performances bugs in it and they rebalancing it.

I would definately prefer seeing a reliable MD, which hit the guy when I was dead on target, than a powerful MD which misses shots half the time, dealing splash dmg when it should have been direct, and no dmg when it should have been splash.

TL;DR Wait and see before asking for things you aren't sure of the impact after CCP's changes.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Shady IceCream Truck Silent Stalkerz Hephaestus Forge Alliance 19	Posted - 2013.05.21 15:37:00 - [241] - Quote Cosgar wrote: Once the desynch issues are fixed, could you please just revert the MD back to how it was in Chromosome? There was absolutely nothing wrong with the weapon. It was balanced enough for players good with it to stand out and had a huge learning curve for anyone who would think it was an "I win button." this
Smoky The Bear Silent Stalkerz Hephaestus Forge Alliance 76	Posted - 2013.05.21 15:45:00 - [242] - Quote I am glad to see some feedback here.. seriously.. MD's we worked hard for it.. I will once again stress what I said to begin with , and what seems to be the general consensus here, After the bugs are worked out... Lets just revert back to Chromosome stats .. The gun was definitely not OP... well except in MY hands :)
Rachoi HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 61	Posted - 2013.05.21 16:03:00 - [243] - Quote Smoky The Bear wrote: I am glad to see some feedback here.. seriously.. MD's we worked hard for it.. I will once again stress what I said to begin with , and what seems to be the general consensus here, After the bugs are worked out... Lets just revert back to Chromosome stats .. The gun was definitely not OP... well except in MY hands :) hah... spoken by someone that used the MD just to splash people to death. honestly, thats the only thing i see is the issue anymore, is the face we have lost our splash. but when we get the balanced MD back, oh the fun we'll have [they're probably gonna have to beef the old damage stats 10% like they did with every other gun though]
Buster Friently Rosen Association 473	Posted - 2013.05.21 16:11:00 - [244] - Quote CCP Wolfman wrote: Hi guys, We have been looking in to the Mass Driver and we have identified two technical issues that are causing problems for it. Firstly we found that the way we check for splash damage is prone to GÇ£missingGÇ¥ partially occluded targets. We have now improved the system to solve this problem (literally yesterday). We will be testing it internally to make sure it causes no new issues and to see if it requires any rebalance on the weapon. We have also found issues with the Mass Driver projectile and client/server de-sync. In poor network conditions the projectile can GÇ£miss the markGÇ¥ making the weapon feel unreliable. We are looking in to this issue as well. We are considering increasing the splash radius but we are hesitant to make significant changes to the weapons balance whilst we are still encountering technical issues with its performance. WeGÇÖll keep you informed on how the new splash fix works out. Cheers CCP Wolfman I wonder how many types of splash damage this affects. Grenades and Forge? how about Flux grenades? Flaylock? Railguns?
XxGhazbaranxX The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 41	Posted - 2013.05.21 18:28:00 - [245] - Quote martinofski wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: CCP Wolfman wrote: Cosgar wrote: Once the desynch issues are fixed, could you please just revert the MD back to how it was in Chromosome? There was absolutely nothing wrong with the weapon. It was balanced enough for players good with it to stand out and had a huge learning curve for anyone who would think it was an "I win button." The thing is, both those issues were also present in Chromosome. With the old values and these problems fixed I think we might have a monster on our hands That's why we'll be conducting tests to see what kind of impact the fixes have on the weapons performance before we make a decision on any changes. CCP Wolfman Prototype mass drivers Oh yes quite a monster with a splash radius of 4 meters and 100 splash damage on the prototype and that's the high damage low radius one or you mean a monster with 78 splash damage with 5 meter radius, cause no other weapon can deal so much damage right. On top of that you have to compensate for travel time of the projectile. Also They are very week against shields. Edit: They also have maximum of 8 rounds in the chamber for the high radius low damage variety vs the assault rifle that gets dozens of rounds. Prototype AR Assault rifle prototype 78 direct damage and 700+ bullets per minute at 60+ meters for a total of 910 damage per second without including skills, small travel time on the projectile and almost no shield damage penalty is no monster of course. I hope you understand my sarcasm. TL;DR Mass Drivers where fine in chromosome. At the same time I see perfectly your sarcasm, I do also feel you are comparing only the basics and making the TAR shine a little bit to much. With the Chromosome MD, you could (which can't be done with a AR: - Direct hit people, not only dealing splash damages - Damage people getting covered - Damage people on the other side of a corner. - Damage more than 1 people in a single shot, Direct hit on one, splash on others. I am definitely not saying the TAR ins't ok as is, but I don't think you can just say bring it back as it was when CCP is telling you they are fixing performances bugs in it and they rebalancing it. I would definately prefer seeing a reliable MD, which hit the guy when I was dead on target, than a powerful MD which misses shots half the time, dealing splash dmg when it should have been direct, and no dmg when it should have been splash. TL;DR Wait and see before asking for things you aren't sure of the impact after CCP's changes. The Post was directed at the mass driver being called a possible monster after they fix the collision issues when there is already a monster out there they should be worried about. Also They broke the mass driver on the premise that their office buddies where using it too much instead of months of open beta testing which proved that it was an effective weapon at it's role making the nerf uncalled for and unjust . They nerfed the stats and have the audacity of calling it a possible monster when there are guns out there that are completely unbalanced and monstrous. Mass Drivers where fine in chromosome and I find i insulting that they are looking into "this monster" when assault rifles haven't been called into question. Yes they are only line of sight, but guess what they only need to see you for a short period to take your skin off.I have seen them being used from the top of buildings which is baffling when you think it's a sniper but then the kill says it was an AR at 83 meters. Mass driver with the small damage it does to the shield cannot effectively kill half as fast at half the range. Saying it could possibly be a monster is an insult. Even if the fix makes the damage done more consistent, which is what it intends to do; Its role as an area of denial weapon is still void. When you take into account that the slowest suit can run faster than 5 meters (The largest radius at the prototype level) per second you have a weapon that is easily avoided, does mediocre damage to shields and does not deny any area to anyone.
Smoky The Bear Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 76	Posted - 2013.05.21 20:12:00 - [246] - Quote I am definitely not saying the TAR ins't ok as is, but I don't think you can just say bring it back as it was when CCP is telling you they are fixing performances bugs in it and they rebalancing it. I would definately prefer seeing a reliable MD, which hit the guy when I was dead on target, than a powerful MD which misses shots half the time, dealing splash dmg when it should have been direct, and no dmg when it should have been splash. TL;DR Wait and see before asking for things you aren't sure of the impact after CCP's changes. [/quote] The Post was directed at the mass driver being called a possible monster after they fix the collision issues when there is already a monster out there they should be worried about. Also They broke the mass driver on the premise that their office buddies where using it too much instead of months of open beta testing which proved that it was an effective weapon at it's role making the nerf uncalled for and unjust . They nerfed the stats and have the audacity of calling it a possible monster when there are guns out there that are completely unbalanced and monstrous. Mass Drivers where fine in chromosome and I find i insulting that they are looking into "this monster" when assault rifles haven't been called into question. Yes they are only line of sight, but guess what they only need to see you for a short period to take your skin off.I have seen them being used from the top of buildings which is baffling when you think it's a sniper but then the kill says it was an AR at 83 meters. Mass driver with the small damage it does to the shield cannot effectively kill half as fast at half the range. Saying it could possibly be a monster is an insult. Even if the fix makes the damage done more consistent, which is what it intends to do; Its role as an area of denial weapon is still void. When you take into account that the slowest suit can run faster than 5 meters (The largest radius at the prototype level) per second you have a weapon that is easily avoided, does mediocre damage to shields and does not deny any area to anyone. martinofski wrote: At the same time I see perfectly your sarcasm, I do also feel you are comparing only the basics and making the TAR shine a little bit to much. With the Chromosome MD, you could (which can't be done with a AR: - Direct hit people, not only dealing splash damages - Damage people getting covered - Damage people on the other side of a corner. - Damage more than 1 people in a single shot, Direct hit on one, splash on others. Those points are exactly what the mass driver was made for. It's a grenade launcher. It was meant to hit more than one person. It was meant to flush people out of corners trying to get cover, it was meant as crowd control (damage more than one person); It was meant to make the enemy stop their attack on a certain location. It was meant to make them go where you want them to or at least not advance; It was meant to intimidate while not obliterate which it did well (the intimidation part). It was meant to support not to lead, it was made for tactics and not run in and shoot at people. In uprising build it can barely be pulled off and even if it is, the damage is just laughable at best at least to shields but its purpose is not to slay. The mass driver does not need a damage buff, it needs it's area of effect back. The one that made it an area of effect weapon and not the "direct damage" sort of weapon we have now. martinofski wrote: TL;DR Wait and see before asking for things you aren't sure of the impact after CCP's changes I am sure of the impact. It will be a different weapon but not the one we came to love. The one that was ok and the office buddies decided was OP. It will make the direct hits actually direct hits on a weapon that was not meant for direct hits. It will leave the radius as low as it is now making it less effective and only ensuring you do at least a bit of damage to your opponent if you where to miss him trying for a direct hit you will be obligated to try instead of the carpet effect it was intended for.[/quote] Ya, I really cant agree more.. I just went and played a couple hours with my 5 pro freedom driver x2 Complex dmg mods.. IT was just ********.. I wont even tell you how bad my ratio was.. Its really just a AR's paradise out there.. And I honestly didnt have enough fun to even grind my weekly sp's out.. its just not happening Is there any good reason why you cant return the stats NOW, then take your time working out the bugs .. so we can at least have a little FUN.. I mean all you really did was parrot that office party quote stolen from some other private DEV forum.. ROLLLBACK>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Smoky The Bear Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 76	Posted - 2013.05.21 20:20:00 - [247] - Quote Rachoi wrote: Smoky The Bear wrote: I am glad to see some feedback here.. seriously.. MD's we worked hard for it.. I will once again stress what I said to begin with , and what seems to be the general consensus here, After the bugs are worked out... Lets just revert back to Chromosome stats .. The gun was definitely not OP... well except in MY hands :) hah... spoken by someone that used the MD just to splash people to death. honestly, thats the only thing i see is the issue anymore, is the face we have lost our splash. but when we get the balanced MD back, oh the fun we'll have [they're probably gonna have to beef the old damage stats 10% like they did with every other gun though] Listen asshat if you wanna see me on the field with ANY weapon of your choice.. name time and place.. ill make u wear a dress and call me daddy.. Next time try making sentences that make sense..
IR Scifi Silver Talon Corporation 30	Posted - 2013.05.21 20:23:00 - [248] - Quote Good to know that a fix is in the works. It'll be hella-nice to have this be viable weapon again on any surface other than table flat wide-open areas.
Shady IceCream Truck Silent Stalkerz Hephaestus Forge Alliance 19	Posted - 2013.05.21 20:27:00 - [249] - Quote when ?? All im seeing is that info we had about 1/4 of the way through this thread.. nothing new
Smoky The Bear Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 76	Posted - 2013.05.21 20:37:00 - [250] - Quote let me just add.. in affirmation of above poster I also am OFFENDED by the whole notion this is some beast when the AR has completely changed the landscape of DUST seemingly 4ever.. Md was one of the specialty weps that takes time and SKILL to operate.. not to mention 6 million SP's.. So I just wasted all my time and effort grinding out this skill tree, only to be marginalized and spat upon.. Its YOUR game do what you want.. People vote with their feet

Still blazn Intergalactic Cannibus Cartel 19	Posted - 2013.05.21 20:39:00 - [251] - Quote Rolllll Back
Rachoi HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 61	Posted - 2013.05.21 20:43:00 - [252] - Quote Smoky The Bear wrote: Rachoi wrote: Smoky The Bear wrote: I am glad to see some feedback here.. seriously.. MD's we worked hard for it.. I will once again stress what I said to begin with , and what seems to be the general consensus here, After the bugs are worked out... Lets just revert back to Chromosome stats .. The gun was definitely not OP... well except in MY hands :) hah... spoken by someone that used the MD just to splash people to death. honestly, thats the only thing i see is the issue anymore, is the face we have lost our splash. but when we get the balanced MD back, oh the fun we'll have [they're probably gonna have to beef the old damage stats 10% like they did with every other gun though] Listen asshat if you wanna see me on the field with ANY weapon of your choice.. name time and place.. ill make u wear a dress and call me daddy.. Next time try making sentences that make sense.. i'm sorry it sounded like an insult, but i STILL use the MD, i rather love it still, i want it to go back to how it once was. and i sat it'd get the 10% damage boost still cause all other weapons did, since our weaponry skill killed the potential for early damage improvements. and seeing you with an AR would make me sad.. please still with MD, us that use the mare far too outnumbered
Smoky The Bear Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 76	Posted - 2013.05.21 21:14:00 - [253] - Quote Rachoi wrote: Smoky The Bear wrote: Rachoi wrote: Smoky The Bear wrote: I am glad to see some feedback here.. seriously.. MD's we worked hard for it.. I will once again stress what I said to begin with , and what seems to be the general consensus here, After the bugs are worked out... Lets just revert back to Chromosome stats .. The gun was definitely not OP... well except in MY hands :) hah... spoken by someone that used the MD just to splash people to death. honestly, thats the only thing i see is the issue anymore, is the face we have lost our splash. but when we get the balanced MD back, oh the fun we'll have [they're probably gonna have to beef the old damage stats 10% like they did with every other gun though] Listen asshat if you wanna see me on the field with ANY weapon of your choice.. name time and place.. ill make u wear a dress and call me daddy.. Next time try making sentences that make sense.. i'm sorry it sounded like an insult, but i STILL use the MD, i rather love it still, i want it to go back to how it once was. and i sat it'd get the 10% damage boost still cause all other weapons did, since our weaponry skill killed the potential for early damage improvements. and seeing you with an AR would make me sad.. please still with MD, us that use the mare far too outnumbered ok.. no problem And yes sadness is the word of the day ... around the MD club
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1085	Posted - 2013.05.21 21:18:00 - [254] - Quote Seems to be a lot of alts in here lately.
RoundEy3 Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2013.05.21 21:21:00 - [255] - Quote I have not taken the time to try MD's out as I have been waiting for the general population to say that explosion damage is up to par. I can agree through being shot at by them that Mass Drivers and explosion/ splash damage in general needs much more work. If someone is shooting a MD at me I laugh as I sprint and bound all over the place while their grenades give me an interesting light show with minimal damage. Summary: Explosions in DUST are weak, end of story.
Smoky The Bear Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 77	Posted - 2013.05.21 21:23:00 - [256] - Quote RoundEy3 wrote: I have not taken the time to try MD's out as I have been waiting for the general population to say that explosion damage is up to par. I can agree though being shot at by them that Mass Drivers and explosion/ splash damage in general needs much more work. If someone is shooting a MD at me I laugh as I sprint and bound all over the place while their grenades give me an interesting light show with minimal damage. Summary: Explosions in DUST are weak, end of story. and thats all i do.. explosions.. Level 5 MD level 5 flaylock grenades..
Rachoi HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 61	Posted - 2013.05.21 21:40:00 - [257] - Quote Smoky The Bear wrote: RoundEy3 wrote: I have not taken the time to try MD's out as I have been waiting for the general population to say that explosion damage is up to par. I can agree though being shot at by them that Mass Drivers and explosion/ splash damage in general needs much more work. If someone is shooting a MD at me I laugh as I sprint and bound all over the place while their grenades give me an interesting light show with minimal damage. Summary: Explosions in DUST are weak, end of story. and thats all i do.. explosions.. Level 5 MD level 5 flaylock grenades.. dude... defensive bomb central, i want to see you in action big time... lets get you into Demolitions so you can use mines and remotes
Still blazn Intergalactic Cannibus Cartel 19	Posted - 2013.05.21 21:48:00 - [258] - Quote Rachoi wrote: Smoky The Bear wrote: RoundEy3 wrote: I have not taken the time to try MD's out as I have been waiting for the general population to say that explosion damage is up to par. I can agree though being shot at by them that Mass Drivers and explosion/ splash damage in general needs much more work. If someone is shooting a MD at me I laugh as I sprint and bound all over the place while their grenades give me an interesting light show with minimal damage. Summary: Explosions in DUST are weak, end of story. and thats all i do.. explosions.. Level 5 MD level 5 flaylock grenades.. dude... defensive bomb central, i want to see you in action big time... lets get you into Demolitions so you can use mines and remotes o ya and level 5 Uplinks/nanos yes.. working on remotes currently someday ima be da BOOMB
Smoky The Bear Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 77	Posted - 2013.05.21 21:51:00 - [259] - Quote Rachoi wrote: Smoky The Bear wrote: RoundEy3 wrote: I have not taken the time to try MD's out as I have been waiting for the general population to say that explosion damage is up to par. I can agree though being shot at by them that Mass Drivers and explosion/ splash damage in general needs much more work. If someone is shooting a MD at me I laugh as I sprint and bound all over the place while their grenades give me an interesting light show with minimal damage. Summary: Explosions in DUST are weak, end of story. and thats all i do.. explosions.. Level 5 MD level 5 flaylock grenades.. dude... defensive bomb central, i want to see you in action big time... lets get you into Demolitions so you can use mines and remotes Ya I had remotes on last build... Working on them again currently .. but its soo derpressing working on this stuff and resisting the AR route..
Rachoi HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 61	Posted - 2013.05.21 22:02:00 - [260] - Quote Smoky The Bear wrote: Rachoi wrote: Smoky The Bear wrote: RoundEy3 wrote: I have not taken the time to try MD's out as I have been waiting for the general population to say that explosion damage is up to par. I can agree though being shot at by them that Mass Drivers and explosion/ splash damage in general needs much more work. If someone is shooting a MD at me I laugh as I sprint and bound all over the place while their grenades give me an interesting light show with minimal damage. Summary: Explosions in DUST are weak, end of story. and thats all i do.. explosions.. Level 5 MD level 5 flaylock grenades.. dude... defensive bomb central, i want to see you in action big time... lets get you into Demolitions so you can use mines and remotes Ya I had remotes on last build... Working on them again currently .. but its soo derpressing working on this stuff and resisting the AR route.. dont break on this one, i do believe that there is going to be alot of changes on the Tac AR at the rate people are hating how its the only gun you see getting kills 90% of the time. we need the diversity, and Remotes have not been damaged in the slightest.... only reason i prefer SMGs as a side arm and not the flaylock is sheer offset, since i need something that has long firing endurance without a nano hive, other than that... my Exo is my best friend, and i'm wanting to get MDO to 5 just so i can have something closer to 4m splash...

Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1089	Posted - 2013.05.22 03:22:00 - [261] - Quote I just got back into REs and proximity mines after the respec. With all the death taxis rolling around, it's as easy as set it, forget it, and collect free kills and WP. Kind of sucks that they nerfed how many you can lay out at once. You used to have 6/6/6 for each tier, but now it's 4/5/6
KA24DERT Not Guilty EoN. 51	Posted - 2013.05.22 03:30:00 - [262] - Quote Also, am I crazy or did CCP add an obnoxious muzzle flash to the Mass Driver?
Still blazn Intergalactic Cannibus Cartel 19	Posted - 2013.05.22 06:43:00 - [263] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Also, am I crazy or did CCP add an obnoxious muzzle flash to the Mass Driver? didnt notice that , but wouldnt doubt it.. I was going to post the same thing.. except I thought maybe I was crazy for thinking that they actually nerfed the MD again today
Cosgar The Unholy Legion Of DarkStar DARKSTAR ARMY 1095	Posted - 2013.05.22 06:47:00 - [264] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Also, am I crazy or did CCP add an obnoxious muzzle flash to the Mass Driver? I think they kicked up muzzle flare on everything. I've noticed it on HMGs and ARs too.
Arkena Wyrnspire Turalyon Plus 376	Posted - 2013.05.22 20:57:00 - [265] - Quote Cosgar wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Also, am I crazy or did CCP add an obnoxious muzzle flash to the Mass Driver? I think they kicked up muzzle flare on everything. I've noticed it on HMGs and ARs too. Yeah, it's noticeable on pretty much every weapon.
Rachoi HavoK Core RISE of LEGION 70	Posted - 2013.05.22 22:36:00 - [266] - Quote not really, i jsut noticed it kicks up too much dust when it explodes
NewOldMan KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 44	Posted - 2013.05.22 23:49:00 - [267] - Quote um, no. Damage is fine. Blast radius is fine. Damage application needs looked at, As no damage is applied to those who jump or are on inclines. I'm being serious when i say this, but you need to actually be good with the mass driver to use it. I use it all the time and do rather well, I can hold my own against most players. The thing is, last build to me it was broken. With a freedom i could kill like 2-3 protos in less than a clip. Now i have to actually try. Mass driver needs to stay where its at
Smoky The Bear Villore Sec Ops Gallente Federation 78	Posted - 2013.05.23 00:00:00 - [268] - Quote thats the problem with "stealth" nerfs.. if we knew what was coming would be nice hate waking up one day to find your grenade launcher shoots potatoes
Shady IceCream Truck Silent Stalkerz Hephaestus Forge Alliance 21	Posted - 2013.05.23 04:48:00 - [269] - Quote Cosgar wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Also, am I crazy or did CCP add an obnoxious muzzle flash to the Mass Driver? I think they kicked up muzzle flare on everything. I've noticed it on HMGs and ARs too. I think they found the "fix" for the MD sync lag issues.. Now you just cant see if it lagged or not ..
BangBang Chuck Rebelles A Quebec Orion Empire 7	Posted - 2013.05.23 15:11:00 - [270] - Quote CCP Wolfman: 1) thanks for the reply! Really appreciated to hear from CCP, please keep the communication active! Keep the hope alive! 2) Do you have an estimate on how long you expect this hit detection fix will be implemented? I get that you need to measure the impacts of the changes before releasing it in the wild, but are we talking days? Weeks? Or a month? I'm asking because i'm principally built for the mass driver and it's quite an annoyance to see a projectile miss its target when it should hit it... 3) Is there any investigation toward the splash radius? And splash damage? I get that the fix hit detect will partially fix the issue, but thoses values seems low... I mean a core lotus grenade does 600 HP at 7.2 m... The high end MD's are so far from that...



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