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CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 11732	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:12:00 - [1] - Quote Dear Players, We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP. The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all. This is quite blunt, but it's been a long time coming. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Syeven Reed T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 996	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:15:00 - [2] - Quote Very happy about this! SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED EvE - 21 Day Trial
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 4942	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:16:00 - [3] - Quote HP modules, as in, shield extenders and armor plating? My advice to you, playa...
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 672	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:21:00 - [4] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: HP modules, as in, shield extenders and armor plating? im assuming only for armor plates, as extenders dont have movement penalties
shaman oga The Dunwich Horror 3242	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:24:00 - [5] - Quote Will you reduce speed based on frame size? E.G. adv plate on light frame greater penalty than adv plate on heavy frame? I know it's not the best argument but, irl things goes this way, tough guys suffer less from big burdens than thin guys.
NextDark Knight molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 614	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:29:00 - [6] - Quote Unless shields are getting a crazy hp buff they should never have a penalty to movement. Now a different shield module that multiply my shields at the cost of bigger shield hitbox then we might be talking. But only a new module as current modules are fine. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
Kain Spero Goonfeet 3847	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:29:00 - [7] - Quote If this is implemented I do think that should modify KinCats to buff strafe speed. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5154	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:29:00 - [8] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP. The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all. This is quite blunt, but it's been a long time coming. Extenders and Armor Plates are obviously the focus here, and Reactives and Ferroscales may be omitted in the first pass. P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small. Inertia possibility in future? EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 11736	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:31:00 - [9] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: If this is implemented I do think that should modify KinCats to buff strafe speed. or myofibs ;) "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 11736	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:32:00 - [10] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: HP modules, as in, shield extenders and armor plating? im assuming only for armor plates, as extenders dont have movement penalties extender stacking is also under the scope "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


NextDark Knight molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 614	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:36:00 - [11] - Quote Cardiac Stimulant could use a buff with some added melee damage :) CCP Rattati wrote: Kain Spero wrote: If this is implemented I do think that should modify KinCats to buff strafe speed. or myofibs ;) Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
jhon hartigan Dead Man's Game RUST415 407	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:38:00 - [12] - Quote Reserved
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 672	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:43:00 - [13] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: HP modules, as in, shield extenders and armor plating? im assuming only for armor plates, as extenders dont have movement penalties extender stacking is also under the scope why? im curious. what problem do they cause?
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3357	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:50:00 - [14] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: HP modules, as in, shield extenders and armor plating? im assuming only for armor plates, as extenders dont have movement penalties extender stacking is also under the scope why? im curious. what problem do they cause? EDIT: if you were to add a penalty to extenders, the only one that makes sense coming from EVE is a penalty to scan profile. But if you do that then shield tanking would need to be looked at again. i can already think of a bunch of issues with that, especially for caldari. but that could be easily fixed with adding a bonus to regulators to offset the extender penalty. Because you can break strafing with extenders to supercalifragilisticexpialidocious

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 11741	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:51:00 - [15] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: HP modules, as in, shield extenders and armor plating? im assuming only for armor plates, as extenders dont have movement penalties extender stacking is also under the scope why? im curious. what problem do they cause? EDIT: if you were to add a penalty to extenders, the only one that makes sense coming from EVE is a penalty to scan profile. But if you do that then shield tanking would need to be looked at again. i can already think of a bunch of issues with that, especially for caldari. but that could be easily fixed with adding a bonus to regulators to offset the extender penalty. Caldari scout OPness, might someone say "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Jadd Hatchen KILL-EM-QUICK 646	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:58:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small. Okay first you state the issue and then you come up with a good plan to fix the issue and they you CREATE A LOOPHOLE THAT NULLIFIES YOUR FIX?????!!!! Seriously if you apply it to only heavies and all mediums except for logistics dropsuits, then guess what players will do? Oh they will return to the days of the logi-slayers! Of course! If you make this change,then make it apply game-wide to all suits. Making exceptions is what breaks the game balance. If it is mass based as you say, then that implies it should be a defining part of the physics in your game and thus Scotty would shame you for trying to break those laws! Shame on you CCP!!!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5154	Posted - 2014.11.19 16:58:00 - [17] - Quote is adding inertia an option? that'd hack the strafe crap down like a broadsword combined with plate strafe penalties. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
NextDark Knight molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 615	Posted - 2014.11.19 17:03:00 - [18] - Quote Can we just delete the cal scout so you don't mess up my heavy and assault suits anymore then you already have with the current set of changes? Maybe larger hitbox for each extender only for the scout class? Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
Isa Lucifer Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 98	Posted - 2014.11.19 17:07:00 - [19] - Quote Inertia based feature that Ripley Riley suggested is something you guys should look at, not so much for DUST but for LEGION. Inertia would really be linked to the future jetpack https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkyOkFE5z7I (Starting at 0:56) I do not agree that Shield Tanking should suffer the negative impacts of physical speed, but instead should have a bigger Profile detection. Example; a triple stacked Shield Extension Caldari Heavy should be the easiest to look at on the outer circle; https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=181381&find=unread That is my opinion on the subject you present on this topic. Amarr Victor
shaman oga The Dunwich Horror 3245	Posted - 2014.11.19 17:12:00 - [20] - Quote Being an elettromagnetic field, shield extender penalty should be something related to EW. If we want to keep it logical, if not idk, it's up to the devs.

NextDark Knight molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 615	Posted - 2014.11.19 17:15:00 - [21] - Quote In eve its Signature radius for a extender penalty Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 1912	Posted - 2014.11.19 17:18:00 - [22] - Quote Does this include backward movement speed...........................please? Circle/figure 8 strafing will likely be just as effective with high HP mods. My Youtube Biomassed Podcast
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 703	Posted - 2014.11.19 17:20:00 - [23] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small. Okay first you state the issue and then you come up with a good plan to fix the issue and they you CREATE A LOOPHOLE THAT NULLIFIES YOUR FIX?????!!!! Seriously if you apply it to only heavies and all mediums except for logistics dropsuits, then guess what players will do? Oh they will return to the days of the logi-slayers! Of course! If you make this change,then make it apply game-wide to all suits. Making exceptions is what breaks the game balance. If it is mass based as you say, then that implies it should be a defining part of the physics in your game and thus Scotty would shame you for trying to break those laws! Shame on you CCP!!! I am always surprised when I read post like this - one that reflects so little reading comprehension that I am truly baffled. Here is the current EHP layout by class, the combination of armor and shield strength, from greatest to least: Sentinel Commando Assault Logistics Scout Here is the actual speed layout by class, from greatest to least: Scout Assault Logistics Commando Sentinel As you can see, the position of the logistics class doesn't make sense. It has less EHP than an assault, yet it is slower than the assault. If a mass based system were to be implemented, it would require that logistics become faster than they currently are, and that assaults become slower than they currently. This would yield the following ranking of speed <--> EHP, where 1 is high speed and 5 is high EHP Scout Logistics Assault Commando Sentinel TL:DR - Speed changes would be required for the mass based system to make sense with the current EHP values of the suits as they are. We won't be returning to Slayer logis if they get a little faster. What it will likely mean is that logis will be able to rep more classes than just a heavy because they can keep up. Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
shaman oga The Dunwich Horror 3245	Posted - 2014.11.19 17:21:00 - [24] - Quote Sidenote: Please Rattati don't nerf Myofibs melee, i want to keep punching mercs in the face! Or if you nerf it, add ballistic fist as a weapon, so i will stop ruining my DS3 analog stick
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 849	Posted - 2014.11.19 17:26:00 - [25] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Caldari scout OPness, might someone say I don't think this is an elegant solution to the problem at all. I'd much rather like to wait until eWar efficacy bonuses for scouts are in. Even if that takes a month or two. I want eWar scouts to work as eWar scouts and I want light assaults to work as light assaults. I don't want light assault fitted scouts to also work as eWar scouts. So let's wait for the efficacy bonuses to fix that. I'm the first to support a Scout-debuff (as in undoing the 1.8 Scout buff) but I just can't see this change work out positively for the game.
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 537	Posted - 2014.11.19 17:58:00 - [26] - Quote That's great and all, but I figured closing the gap in straffe acceleration between ds3 and kb/m users would be a good idea too :p Support Assault changes
Francois Sanchez Prima Gallicus 148	Posted - 2014.11.19 18:20:00 - [27] - Quote Adding penalty to shield extenders and not to ferroscale plates isn't right as ferroscale give you more HP than equal tier exenders (that btw use much more CPU PG) Moreover that penalty to shield extenders doesn' t make sense, an ewar penakty would be more logical. I know strafing cal scout is BS but you're not attacking the right problem, the true problem is that the Cal scout hitbox is broken and all light and medium suits base strafe speeds are way too high (or add inertia)
RedPencil Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 134	Posted - 2014.11.19 18:45:00 - [28] - Quote Approved ! To be fare, If you include shield extend, I would like to see penalty on Reactives and Ferroscales too. Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
Cass Caul 1625	Posted - 2014.11.19 18:58:00 - [29] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP. The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all. This is quite blunt, but it's been a long time coming. Extenders and Armor Plates are obviously the focus here, and Reactives and Ferroscales may be omitted in the first pass. P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small. The title say ffedback, how is this a discussion at all? think, as long as aim adhesion on rifles is as strong as it is that this is just a terrible idea. Increase strafe penalties will really only further to decrease the level of skill in this game. It's already laughable how easy it is to run around in a C-I Assault, with no modules outside a STD nanohive and kill players in ADV and PRO with my SMG You might as well just put "stun on hit" and go back to 1.6's Aim Assist because it's effectiveness is the same thing: Aiming is a skill, inhibiting the ability to break out of aim-assisst should only further drop the level of enjoyment from vets as the game moves back to "I saw you first, I win." On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 152	Posted - 2014.11.19 19:08:00 - [30] - Quote Hum... Yeah I think it's a good idea, but I can't understand several things... 1) Ok, I agree with the logi (and commando but that's not the problem) I can understand logi "must be as fast as the assaults" But why nerf the assault's speed ? Do you thing they are OP ? Usually, you only nerf things when they are OP, so are assaults OP ? I think they aren't. So I don't understand the assault speed nerf (even if it's just "a bit") Give to the logi the same speed as the assaults (7.00 for Gal and Cal for example) 2) Straff penality for shield extender What would become the advantage to be a shield tanker compared to be an armor tanker if they have both a straff penality ? Is the objective not to fit any HP mod anymore ? 3) Why shouldn't have the ferro plates a straff speed penality too ? ferro are plates, so it's ON the dropsuit, normaly it would have a straff penality Complex shield extender >< complex ferro plate 66HP >< 75HP 54CPU >< 23 CPU 11PG >< 8PG 7% shield regu penality >< any penality And you're adding x% straff speed penality >< 0 Don't you see a problem ? It would become more easy to tank armor with ferro plates (AND YOU WANNA ADD ARMOR RESISTANCE MODS) than be a shield tanker Because Shield tankers are made to be good straffers if they don't put plate mods I'm gonna take the most normal example : Assaults - nerf the speed - add straff speed penality ====> BIG assault nerf (I think, I always play with the assault's speed, but if you nerf it, assault would be nerfed a lot (my opinion)). Assaults are slayers, slayers like them must have a great speed and straff speed. Think what you wanna think. That's what I think. Welcome to CAMPER 514 The game where you never touch the ground.

Cass Caul 1626	Posted - 2014.11.19 19:09:00 - [31] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Kain Spero wrote: If this is implemented I do think that should modify KinCats to buff strafe speed. or myofibs ;) I like how the only way to get people to use myos is to make them do something completely unrelated to melee damage On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt
CELESTA AUNGM Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 329	Posted - 2014.11.19 19:20:00 - [32] - Quote OhGÇöMy---Lourde!! They are doing it AGAIN! When the devs of this game expressed that they were going to respond to the GÇ£traditionsGÇ¥ of Aim-Assist in an fps game by creating a weird, controversially GÇ£equal-opportunityGÇ¥ Aiming Assist that hadnGÇÖt really been tried like it before....that was CCP at itGÇÖs boldest. Folks blew a gasket, fps gun-masters ranted against it, but CCP implemented it anyway. And I am proud to brag GÇ£I was THEREGÇ¥ on the night the game changed from no-Assister to GÇ£Dust-Assister-ONGÇ¥. Bunny-hop cheaters ran for cover, victimized Newberries stepped from the shadows and finally opened fire. I had those same noobies repeatedly saving my life and covering me all night long. Most incredible injection of spraying bullets, medal-of-honor heroics, and pure fun this game has had in any 24 hour patch periodGÇötears of joy! Maybe CCP doesnGÇÖt realize it yet (or they do ), but devising a mechanic that responds to GÇ£the strafing dance cheatGÇ¥ (yep, many of us call it a cheat), will be another moment of CCP taking the bold path AGAIN! Rattati, if your staff can implement this wild GÇ£strafing-movement-offsetGÇ¥ mechanic in our fit-outs, it will make Dust the unprecedented pioneer in ways Legion and others will never surpass. It may not cause the same protesting and rage that Aim-Assist did, but it addresses the same aruguable GÇ£cheatingGÇ¥ weGÇÖve tolerated from nearly all the years of fps games: the cheat called GÇ£I can beat you simply because IGÇÖve perfected a Trinity-Matrix-strafedance that makes you miss me at 10 pacesGÇ¥. Thank you for this idea! Trinity... here is comes. Smile. Universe of good wishes for the 49, especially CCP Eterne... No story can have life without writers and publishers.
Kierkegaard Soren THE HANDS OF DEATH RUST415 554	Posted - 2014.11.19 19:21:00 - [33] - Quote Great idea! I suggest you drop strafe speeds right down on all suits, and then add movement speed buffs to myrofibs; that way speed tanking becomes a choice you fit for and not an attribute that lighter suits inherently possess. Keep any movement penalties to plates and extenders light, but apply it to all of them lest you make entire module types redundant. I can't stress enough that if you're going to do this it needs to be done all in one go or you're just going to create new fotm Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.
sabre prime Crux Special Tasks Group Gallente Federation 822	Posted - 2014.11.19 19:22:00 - [34] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Is it not possible to have a sort of inertia-based system? An acceleration speed when you change direction sharply. Making the "end" of a strafing line a slow, vulnerable state. Not saying I don't think this is a good idea. It is. Will be get to see some numbers soon? This is interesting. Is it possible to implement a 'inertia rate' mechaninc. Like you have 'dispersion decay' for the rifles? So there is a counteractive force being applied when you strafe, and the rate of inertia slowing your strafe increases as you continue to strafe? The slow blade penetrates the shield.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 417	Posted - 2014.11.19 19:33:00 - [35] - Quote The purpose is to stop bullet dodging. Bullet dodging is done best by low hp scouts circling very fast. According to your proposal If you fit hp, you will not dodge bullets very well.If i'm I'm a scout that fits a bare minmum of hp modules, how will this affect me? If I don't fit hp but fit a strafe boost module wouldn't i be able to dodge bulets even better than before? Dancing sentinels are a problem, they usually fit kin cats and cardiac regulators. We want to stop dancing sentinels. So we penalize sentinels that don't fit kincats and card regs, but HP? The suits that most heavily depend on HP modules, Assaults and logis are not supposed to be affected by penalizing movment if they use the modules they rely upon? Why not just an across the board reduction to strafing circles? Simply make running backwards, left and right slower than sprinting? Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4998	Posted - 2014.11.19 19:36:00 - [36] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small. Okay first you state the issue and then you come up with a good plan to fix the issue and they you CREATE A LOOPHOLE THAT NULLIFIES YOUR FIX?????!!!! Seriously if you apply it to only heavies and all mediums except for logistics dropsuits, then guess what players will do? Oh they will return to the days of the logi-slayers! Of course! If you make this change,then make it apply game-wide to all suits. Making exceptions is what breaks the game balance. If it is mass based as you say, then that implies it should be a defining part of the physics in your game and thus Scotty would shame you for trying to break those laws! Shame on you CCP!!! So, this guy is basically a **** in how he talks to people. And he speaks with the mentality of a 13 year old. But he makes a good point. Physics should be a universal thing. Otherwise an exploitable exception can, and will, be found. It's my fault FA exists. Direct your rage to me.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 153	Posted - 2014.11.19 20:11:00 - [37] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP. The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all. This is quite blunt, but it's been a long time coming. Extenders and Armor Plates are obviously the focus here, and Reactives and Ferroscales may be omitted in the first pass. P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small. The title say ffedback, how is this a discussion at all? think, as long as aim adhesion on rifles is as strong as it is that this is just a terrible idea. Increase strafe penalties will really only further to decrease the level of skill in this game. It's already laughable how easy it is to run around in a C-I Assault, with no modules outside a STD nanohive and kill players in ADV and PRO with my SMG You might as well just put "stun on hit" and go back to 1.6's Aim Assist because it's effectiveness is the same thing: Aiming is a skill, inhibiting the ability to break out of aim-assisst should only further drop the level of enjoyment from vets as the game moves back to "I saw you first, I win." +1 Straff is the only chance to win a battle (when the ennemy begins to shoot on you) Decrease it, and lol this game would come back to 1.6 hahaha worst idea ever And so no difference between shield tankers and armor tankers (who use normal armor plate (lol a basic armor plate would become beter than a complex shield extender haha)) What I see ? 1) come back to 1.8 2) It'll be impossible to fight against a heavy with a medium suit. Why ? Become without straff, the OP HMG destroy you in less than 1 sec. CCP logical 3) armor tankers >>>>>>>>>> shield tanks. And, woaw ! Rattati is a gallente. WAIT & SEE Wait & see. Be sad about CCP choices. Or leave this game and be happy !
Jebus McKing 1021	Posted - 2014.11.19 20:26:00 - [38] - Quote If you'd fix strafe speed you wouldn't have to herf hit detection. Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
hfderrtgvcd 1203	Posted - 2014.11.19 20:26:00 - [39] - Quote This is a bad idea. The only reason shield tanking is viable is because they have higher strafe speeds than armor tanked suits. Armor plates already have a more than sufficient strafe penalty. I'd recommend just reducing heavies and scouts base strafe speeds and not touching any other stats. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 153	Posted - 2014.11.19 20:34:00 - [40] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: This is a bad idea. The only reason shield tanking is viable is because they have higher strafe speeds than armor tanked suits. Armor plates already have a more than sufficient strafe penalty. I'd recommend just reducing heavies and scouts base strafe speeds and not touching any other stats. I'm not the only one, thank you bro CCP logical is very strange... Wait & see.

Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2194	Posted - 2014.11.19 20:36:00 - [41] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: HP modules, as in, shield extenders and armor plating? im assuming only for armor plates, as extenders dont have movement penalties extender stacking is also under the scope why? im curious. what problem do they cause? EDIT: if you were to add a penalty to extenders, the only one that makes sense coming from EVE is a penalty to scan profile. But if you do that then shield tanking would need to be looked at again. i can already think of a bunch of issues with that, especially for caldari. but that could be easily fixed with adding a bonus to regulators to offset the extender penalty. Caldari scout OPness, might someone say CalScout OPness isn't the fault of the extender, merely a symptom. Extenders should raise scan profile, but I don't see how weightless energy could cause slower movement speed. In addition, a CalScout stacking extenders has a maximum possible shield health of 453, which while higher than it should be, isn't exactly making a sentinel envious. I believe the solution is to add inertia to player movement, meaning popping back and forth slows you down. But unless shield extenders add the same hp as an armor plate, I don't see how giving them a movement penalty will cause more good than bad. I would suggest we brainstorm some suggestions as to what is possible to do that isn't a movement penalty on extenders. Suppose we lowered CalScout (and possibly the other suits) base speed? Id adding inertia impossible? What about making rapid back and forth strafing costing stamina? Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 153	Posted - 2014.11.19 20:46:00 - [42] - Quote I just can't stand this choice CCP made the Calscout OP And now CCP wanna nerf all the shield tankers Isn't it just more simple and more logical to nerf the Calscout directly ???????? CCP logical is very strange... Wait & see.
Mad Syringe ReDust Inc. 324	Posted - 2014.11.19 20:50:00 - [43] - Quote I would like to see a higher penalization depending on suit class. Heavies get the least penalties, folowed by mediums and maximum penalties for scouts. Sentinels are supposed to stack plates (at least the armor ones). If strafe speed of heavies is a prob (never had it with armor tankers) than drop their base movement speed, but I doubt it's necessary. Scouts however have a much weaker suit, so it naturally should be more penalized by plates. Shields however should do something different when stacked. I like the profile Idea, because it would lead to more e-war instead of shield tanking. The Minnie for example is usually run more like a scout should be run, not tanked but damped with precision modules. There should however be a module to compensate, so if you stack shields, and want to keep your profile, you have to at least waste one module... (This should be a high slot module). Considering the logi assault speed balance, I read a suggestion, that logis should have higher sprint and assaults higher strafe speed. I think this would be optimal, since for 1on 1 combat you need strafe speed. For supply and rezzing you need sprint speed. Have the same stamina for both (or slightly lower on logis), They should however be able to cover the same ground in a given timeframe. Thats my 0,2 ct... Dedicated Minmando Masshole with love for Swarmholing... Not playing logi that much anymore... which is a shame...
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 525	Posted - 2014.11.19 20:51:00 - [44] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: HP modules, as in, shield extenders and armor plating? im assuming only for armor plates, as extenders dont have movement penalties extender stacking is also under the scope why? im curious. what problem do they cause? EDIT: if you were to add a penalty to extenders, the only one that makes sense coming from EVE is a penalty to scan profile. But if you do that then shield tanking would need to be looked at again. i can already think of a bunch of issues with that, especially for caldari. but that could be easily fixed with adding a bonus to regulators to offset the extender penalty. Caldari scout OPness, might someone say Are you even serious? You omitt the strafe penalties from ferroscales and reactives that gives close to the same amount of HP of shield extenders with way less CPU and PG usage, and you put it on the latter, which may be the only exclusive advantage shield tanking has over armor tanking? Take a bow
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 525	Posted - 2014.11.19 20:55:00 - [45] - Quote My fellow Caldari Assaults, Scouts and Sentinels, get your respec ready. Take a bow
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 156	Posted - 2014.11.19 21:04:00 - [46] - Quote Cavani1EE7 wrote: My fellow Caldari Assaults, Scouts and Sentinels, get your respec ready. I think CCP doesn't like shield tankers. They are good at the moment. So (CCP logical =) NERF IT PLEEEEAAAAAAAAAAASEEEEEE CCP One of the only good point of the shield extender is that it doesn't give any speed penality, and give some would nerf a lot shield extenders... CCP logical is very strange... Wait & see.
Whisperen Sub Napalm Bukkake 3	Posted - 2014.11.19 21:07:00 - [47] - Quote TTK is already way to low in a game with auto aim , wall hacks ,bullet magnetism and stupid draw distances and you want to make it worse? Good thing i got a bpo suit when it was cheap. You want to fix the scouts? Do it the same way you fixed the logis remove the light weapon slot and give them two sidearm slots. You want to fix shields? Double shield extender HP bonus and make them increase a suits sig radius or hitbox size.
NextDark Knight molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 618	Posted - 2014.11.19 21:09:00 - [48] - Quote First they take away my guns, now they take away shields.. Everything Caldari is a crutch I guess. I rather them just give back the precision bonus instead of the damp bonus. I guess all this time I been proto Caldari scout I been missing the boat on the FOTM everyone been yelling so loud about... cause I stopped running it when the precision was taken away. Anyway good luck getting that check box on "Forum approved" for this one.. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 157	Posted - 2014.11.19 21:10:00 - [49] - Quote Whisperen Sub wrote: TTK is already way to low in a game with auto aim , wall hacks ,bullet magnetism and stupid draw distances and you want to make it worse? Good thing i got a bpo suit when it was cheap. You want to fix the scouts? Do it the same way you fixed the logis remove the light weapon slot and give them two sidearm slots. You want to fix shields? Double shield extender HP bonus and make them increase a suits sig radius or hitbox size. Agreed. But thay aren't any reason to nerf shield extenders... shield extender vs traditionnal armor plate shield has 2x less HP shield extender vs ferro plate shield has less HP shield cost more PG/CPU shield has a shield regen penality Ne need to nerf them CCP logical is very strange... Wait & see.
NextDark Knight molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 618	Posted - 2014.11.19 21:11:00 - [50] - Quote Whisperen Sub wrote: TTK is already way to low in a game with auto aim , wall hacks ,bullet magnetism and stupid draw distances and you want to make it worse? Good thing i got a bpo suit when it was cheap. You want to fix the scouts? Do it the same way you fixed the logis remove the light weapon slot and give them two sidearm slots. You want to fix shields? Double shield extender HP bonus and make them increase a suits sig radius or hitbox size. >> Problem being is the game engine will need to have two hitboxes.. one for shields and the other for no shields. Not sure if they can code it so the game has the second hitbox working for shields. Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012

Cass Caul 1638	Posted - 2014.11.19 21:26:00 - [51] - Quote With the topic of changing up Assault's movement and other movement and whatnot I'd really like to propose the following: Restructure the movement difference between all 23 suit types. Right now, every single suit has a different base movement speed. What I would like to see is all Gallente suits' base movement speed changed to that of a Gallente Medium Frame All Caldari suits base movement speed changed to that of a Caldari Medium Frame All Minmatar Suits base movement speed changed to that of a Minmatar Medium Frame All Amarr Suits base movement speed changed to that of an Amarr Medium Frame. From there, rather than having tiers of speed ( one sentinels, commandos, scouts, assaults, logistics, and basic frames) we change the Sprint Modifier on all suits to be based on their Role. Currently all suits sprint at 1.4 X base movement speed, Instead we give Sentinels a 1.2 modifier Commandos a 1.25 modifier Logistics a 1.35 modifier Assaults a 1.4 modifier Scouts a 1.5 modifier All suits within a race would have the same strafe speed, which would highlight how even though min-scouts have a higher strafe speed that they can't screw with hit-detection in the same way. Rather than increase the strafe penalties through Armor plates, reduce the current multiplier to movement: Backwards movement is 100%, this needs to get nerfed with a heavy hammer. Maybe drop strafe speed by 10% ( as in -0.1 to the modifier) But reduced base movement speed, which is already a property of plates, also reduces strafe speed. This all just seems like a very poor idea to fix a problem that, frankly, is the only thing that stops use from being in 1.6 levels of auto-aim On Hiatus. This is my smartphone alt
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 677	Posted - 2014.11.19 21:30:00 - [52] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: HP modules, as in, shield extenders and armor plating? im assuming only for armor plates, as extenders dont have movement penalties extender stacking is also under the scope why? im curious. what problem do they cause? EDIT: if you were to add a penalty to extenders, the only one that makes sense coming from EVE is a penalty to scan profile. But if you do that then shield tanking would need to be looked at again. i can already think of a bunch of issues with that, especially for caldari. but that could be easily fixed with adding a bonus to regulators to offset the extender penalty. Caldari scout OPness, might someone say and i say that extenders have nothing to do with that. wall hacks, combined with dual shield regulators, cloaks, and scout size hotbox mean that regardless of how much shield you have you will be hard to kill. where plates can be abused on everything suit in the game, saying that extenders should be given a penalty for being used on a particular shield tanking suit seems odd. does your data say that cal assaults, logistics, and sentinels are all OP as well? i doubt it. you need to look at the actual suit, not the extenders. if anything this is proof that we need hp mods according to weight class.
Whisperen Sub Napalm Bukkake 4	Posted - 2014.11.19 21:32:00 - [53] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: Whisperen Sub wrote: TTK is already way to low in a game with auto aim , wall hacks ,bullet magnetism and stupid draw distances and you want to make it worse? Good thing i got a bpo suit when it was cheap. You want to fix the scouts? Do it the same way you fixed the logis remove the light weapon slot and give them two sidearm slots. You want to fix shields? Double shield extender HP bonus and make them increase a suits sig radius or hitbox size. >> Problem being is the game engine will need to have two hitboxes.. one for shields and the other for no shields. Not sure if they can code it so the game has the second hitbox working for shields. You may be right modifying hitbox size could also cause strange game play issues like getting shot from behind cover increasing a suits sig radius/scan profile would be better.
Mad Syringe ReDust Inc. 325	Posted - 2014.11.19 21:41:00 - [54] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: where plates can be abused on everything suit in the game, saying that extenders should be given a penalty for being used on a particular shield tanking suit seems odd. does your data say that cal assaults, logistics, and sentinels are all OP as well? i doubt it. you need to look at the actual suit, not the extenders. if anything this is proof that we need hp mods according to weight class. Is a percentage increase of HP for plates and extenders possible? This would instantly fix all issues with brick tanked light suits. The lights would benefit less from plates or extenders while the heavies would benefit much more. Dedicated Minmando Masshole with love for Swarmholing... Not playing logi that much anymore... which is a shame...
Espeon Bons Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 303	Posted - 2014.11.19 21:43:00 - [55] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: HP modules, as in, shield extenders and armor plating? im assuming only for armor plates, as extenders dont have movement penalties extender stacking is also under the scope why? im curious. what problem do they cause? EDIT: if you were to add a penalty to extenders, the only one that makes sense coming from EVE is a penalty to scan profile. But if you do that then shield tanking would need to be looked at again. i can already think of a bunch of issues with that, especially for caldari. but that could be easily fixed with adding a bonus to regulators to offset the extender penalty. Caldari scout OPness, might someone say Then i better get more hp to shields. Redemption comes from changing who you are on the inside. Stain yourself with evil to defeat a greater evil.
Jebus McKing 1022	Posted - 2014.11.19 21:47:00 - [56] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Caldari scout OPness, might someone say There is no OPness. There is people using the wrong weapons. (I'm destroying cal scouts with breach ScP, they go down in 2-3 shots, or even just 1 when it's a headshot. And I think most other anti shield weaponry is also pretty effective.) There is people not using dampeners. (One complex dampener makes any medium suit invisible to shield stacking cal scout scans.) There are too many people having no clue what they are talking about but damn hell are gonna make sure everyone knows what their opinion is, no matter if based on facts or hearsay. And there still is poor poor hit detection. And these strafing changes sound like another poor bandaid to technical hit detection issues to me. Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3358	Posted - 2014.11.19 21:55:00 - [57] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Caldari scout OPness, might someone say There is no OPness. There is people using the wrong weapons. (I'm destroying cal scouts with breach ScP, they go down in 2-3 shots, or even just 1 when it's a headshot. And I think most other anti shield weaponry is also pretty effective.) There is people not using dampeners. (One complex dampener makes any medium suit invisible to shield stacking cal scout scans.) There are too many people having no clue what they are talking about but damn hell are gonna make sure everyone knows what their opinion is, no matter if based on facts or hearsay. And there still is poor poor hit detection. And these strafing changes sound like another poor bandaid to technical hit detection issues to me. Strafing is OP because it is not realistic. Caldari scouts can a strafe like crazy and have high hp due to shields. You might be inclined to say this is not realistic as shields are weightless but the alternative is reducing caldari suits speed as it is in eve where they are the slowest of ships. Also hit detection is abused by starting. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 104	Posted - 2014.11.19 21:55:00 - [58] - Quote shaman oga wrote: Will you reduce speed based on frame size? E.G. adv plate on light frame greater penalty than adv plate on heavy frame? I know it's not the best argument but, irl things goes this way, tough guys suffer less from big burdens than thin guys. With everything that has to do with heavies, I think most people would WANT do make heavies suffer more. They are to powerful. They get so many kills yet are hard do kill. And don't get me wrong either. I'm not against heavies. I play ALL ROLES mostly scout and heavy. Heavies are to good for cqc. They need this to be applied in full. They need some suffrage. Minmatar-assault combat rifle, flaylock pistol, tanked, quick. Before you know it..........your dead.......
TRULY ELITE WarRavens Capital Punishment. 173	Posted - 2014.11.19 22:26:00 - [59] - Quote As a mainly shield tanker I feel like this is only going to put shields even further behind armour than they already are. Armour tankers can stack ferroes and be immune to the bonus whilst still having more HP than the equivelant extender at 1/2 the cost of CPU/PG. You might say oh but I need armour reps, with the halved fitting costs all you'll need are triage hives and you'll be able to fit those easily. Let's say I use a caldari scout, I need some HP and 2 complex shields is what you need since anything less than that is pointless amounts. Your giving me no choice but to use extenders which are part of this penalty and there are no other shield HP mods, this is a unfair move as your giving shield tankers no choice which we don't even have anyway. TLDR: if your going to introduce something like this HP modules need a rework in terms of CPU/PG costs and health given and more variety.
Mexxx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 133	Posted - 2014.11.19 22:26:00 - [60] - Quote Lol, now we're at possible strafe penalties for shield extenders because Cal Scout OPness? Maybe if this game wasn't stuck in an armour meta with the majority of players using CR and RR to counter this, the odd cal scout wouldn't seem OP when you face it. You can 5 shot a proto cal scout with a ScrR or, almost as easy, kill it with an AR. If only the 1.7 proficiency skills were still the same. Shield extenders offer less HP and more PG/cpu requirements than ferros, and ferros are being considered being excluded from the strafe penalty.

Jebus McKing 1022	Posted - 2014.11.19 22:39:00 - [61] - Quote Sure a proto cal scout can have 400+ shield HP, so what? Still dies in 3 shots from a STD breach ScP. And if you did not see him coming then all the strafe speed and/or HP nerfs wouldn't have saved you. --- If you think that strafing is unrealistic then add a inertia system, like it was proposed many times. But making HP modules, especially shields, reduce your strafe speed is plain and simple a really poor solution. I know and I have experienced myself that scouts (not just cal scouts) can even strafe through a 1200rpm stream of ACR bullets without taking damage. But again that is not a problem of strafe speed but hit detection. --- Seriously, at least wait with this change until you switched the scout bonuses to modules efficacy and let's see how this changes scouts. --- Reducing mobility is IMO just a poor way of balancing things because it makes playing the game increasingly inconvenient and annoying. If you think Heavies are over performing then we have to find a different solution but nerfing strafe speed for everyone. I also don't believe that failing at hitting a strafing heavy is the cause of them overperforming. --- If you think that people in general are using too many HP modules then ffs buff the other modules instead of giving HP modules more penalties. I kinda doubt that people would switch out a plate for a codebreaker just because you add a strafing penalty to plates, if you know what I mean. Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
Jebus McKing 1022	Posted - 2014.11.19 22:41:00 - [62] - Quote (accidental double post) Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
TRULY ELITE WarRavens Capital Punishment. 174	Posted - 2014.11.19 22:41:00 - [63] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Caldari scout OPness, might someone say There is no OPness. There is people using the wrong weapons. (I'm destroying cal scouts with breach ScP, they go down in 2-3 shots, or even just 1 when it's a headshot. And I think most other anti shield weaponry is also pretty effective.) There is people not using dampeners. (One complex dampener makes any medium suit invisible to shield stacking cal scout scans.) There are too many people having no clue what they are talking about but damn hell are gonna make sure everyone knows what their opinion is, no matter if based on facts or hearsay. And there still is poor poor hit detection. And these strafing changes sound like another poor bandaid to technical hit detection issues to me. Strafing is OP because it is not realistic. Caldari scouts can a strafe like crazy and have high hp due to shields. You might be inclined to say this is not realistic as shields are weightless but the alternative is reducing caldari suits speed as it is in eve where they are the slowest of ships. Also hit detection is abused by starting. The idea is not to nerf shields but fix strafing. This has no merit whatsoever, why do you think cal scouts use shield extenders? I don't know, IT'S THE ONLY HP MOD WE HAVE, when the caldari scout had the prescion bonus I would actually use prescion but without that bonus is is very easy to bypass 2 prescion enhancers so what's the point? A gal scout needs 1 damp to be effectively invisible to most players, a cal scout needs 3 prescion mods to be effective at scanning other scouts, with that I also only have 1 more high slot for HP mods, the gal scout has 3 slots for HP mods not including highs, fair? Also to those who say the cal scout has the smallest hotbox or hit detection issues therefore it shoudn't get x or get y. This is blatant ignorance, this is a 'feature' which: Is not something described in the suit Not described as a bonus Out of the control of the player How is this my fault, did I know it was going to have this the day uprising 1.8 came out and I got it proto? No I didn't so stop using this as a argument or a point.
Jadd Hatchen KILL-EM-QUICK 646	Posted - 2014.11.19 22:46:00 - [64] - Quote Piercing Serenity wrote: I am always surprised when I read post like this - one that reflects so little reading comprehension that I am truly baffled. Here is the current EHP layout by class, the combination of armor and shield strength, from greatest to least: Sentinel Commando Assault Logistics Scout Here is the actual speed layout by class, from greatest to least: Scout Assault Logistics Commando Sentinel As you can see, the position of the logistics class doesn't make sense. It has less EHP than an assault, yet it is slower than the assault. If a mass based system were to be implemented, it would require that logistics become faster than they currently are, and that assaults become slower than they currently. This would yield the following ranking of speed <--> EHP, where 1 is high speed and 5 is high EHP Scout Logistics Assault Commando Sentinel TL:DR - Speed changes would be required for the mass based system to make sense with the current EHP values of the suits as they are. We won't be returning to Slayer logis if they get a little faster. What it will likely mean is that logis will be able to rep more classes than just a heavy because they can keep up. While you lay our your case very plainly, you have also plainly missed your target... I agree that the speed vs tank position of the logi and assault are somewhat screwy. However the fix for that should NOT be due to an exception to physics in the game mechanics but instead by tweaking the base speed of the Logistics suit or the the assault suit. Duh!
TRULY ELITE WarRavens Capital Punishment. 174	Posted - 2014.11.19 22:47:00 - [65] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: HP modules, as in, shield extenders and armor plating? im assuming only for armor plates, as extenders dont have movement penalties extender stacking is also under the scope why? im curious. what problem do they cause? EDIT: if you were to add a penalty to extenders, the only one that makes sense coming from EVE is a penalty to scan profile. But if you do that then shield tanking would need to be looked at again. i can already think of a bunch of issues with that, especially for caldari. but that could be easily fixed with adding a bonus to regulators to offset the extender penalty. Caldari scout OPness, might someone say Explain? If you start throwing a bunch of KD and kill numbers at me I'll be disappointed, surely a DEV wouldn't say such a thing without giving evidence to back it up. I bet there are more gal scouts than cal scouts I bet there are higher kills and KD ratios with the gal scout So how is the cal scout more OP than the gal scout, oh and saying because it can stack shield extenders is not a valid point, that isn't my fault, that's yours, besides, 2 plates + rep + kinkat> shield extenders, the gal scout is the best scout, best bonuses, best slot layout for HP tanking or EWAR or speed modding, or codebreaking.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 14839	Posted - 2014.11.19 22:47:00 - [66] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP. The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all. This is quite blunt, but it's been a long time coming. Extenders and Armor Plates are obviously the focus here, and Reactives and Ferroscales may be omitted in the first pass. P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small. If you are talking mass penalties then should not the effects from most prevalent to least prevalent follow true - Light Frames (greatest) - Medium Frames - Heavy Frames (least as they already have poor manoeuvrability stats) Eventually if this proves successful could we consider Mass penalties for vehicles as well? Tonnage would be an interesting statistic for vehicles. "The moment passed in thunder and calamitous intent and yet no order was given to retreat or give their ground"
Jadd Hatchen KILL-EM-QUICK 646	Posted - 2014.11.19 23:00:00 - [67] - Quote Ok, so I've been reading through all the arguments for this thread and I've come to the conclusion that CCP's original idea for fixing strafing will not work unless something is also done about shield penalties... Meaning the following: !) For BOTH armor plates and shields extenders, they should be changed to a percentage system so that they become more tailored to the dropsuit they are being fitted on. This way "brick tanking" things that should be releatively lower EHP will not happen. 2) Imposing a movement penalty (ie. speed/strafe/mass) is good for armor plates and makes sense, however it does NOT make sense for shields. 3) For shield extenders, there should be one or possibly two drawbacks (and NOT have the recharge delay as one of them)... First they should affect the signature of the dropsuit so that they are almost one class size larger for detection purposes (light goes to medium, medium to heavy, heavy to LAV, LAV to HAV, HAV... welll no one hides those). Second it should increase the HITBOX of the dropsuit such that they are easier to HIT by players. These two changes would effectively mimic the drawback of shield extenders in EVE for spaceships. In EVE, adding armor plates adds mass, greater mass reduces top speed, acceration, and agility (turning/alignment time). In EVE, adding shield extenders makes the ship's signature radius bloom to a larger size and thus guns that would normally not be able to track and hit the smaller ships are subsequently able to do so. This sort of change would be a BETTER and more comprehensive FIX for the situation that has caused this line of discussion.
shaman oga The Dunwich Horror 3252	Posted - 2014.11.19 23:05:00 - [68] - Quote Lightning35 Delta514 wrote: shaman oga wrote: Will you reduce speed based on frame size? E.G. adv plate on light frame greater penalty than adv plate on heavy frame? I know it's not the best argument but, irl things goes this way, tough guys suffer less from big burdens than thin guys. With everything that has to do with heavies, I think most people would WANT do make heavies suffer more. They are to powerful. They get so many kills yet are hard do kill. And don't get me wrong either. I'm not against heavies. I play ALL ROLES mostly scout and heavy. Heavies are to good for cqc. They need this to be applied in full. They need some suffrage. I know, but i'm proceeding with logic, imo heavies should have less HP or less resistances, but plates/extenders should be easier to fit for them, just because it's their main role. Situational awareness commonly called passive scan.
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 529	Posted - 2014.11.19 23:12:00 - [69] - Quote If we get strafe penalties on our Shield Extenders we RIOT Take a bow
TRULY ELITE WarRavens Capital Punishment. 176	Posted - 2014.11.19 23:15:00 - [70] - Quote Cavani1EE7 wrote: If we get strafe penalties on our Shield Extenders we RIOT Damn right I will. We only get one HP mod in the first place.

hfderrtgvcd 1206	Posted - 2014.11.19 23:17:00 - [71] - Quote The only reason cal scouts seem overpowered is because of hit box issues. There's no need to destroy an entire tanking style because one suit has a broken hit box. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
Jebus McKing 1022	Posted - 2014.11.19 23:19:00 - [72] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Ok, so I've been reading through all the arguments for this thread and I've come to the conclusion that CCP's original idea for fixing strafing will not work unless something is also done about shield penalties... Meaning the following: !) For BOTH armor plates and shields extenders, they should be changed to a percentage system so that they become more tailored to the dropsuit they are being fitted on. This way "brick tanking" things that should be releatively lower EHP will not happen. 2) Imposing a movement penalty (ie. speed/strafe/mass) is good for armor plates and makes sense, however it does NOT make sense for shields. 3) For shield extenders, there should be one or possibly two drawbacks (and NOT have the recharge delay as one of them)... First they should affect the signature of the dropsuit so that they are almost one class size larger for detection purposes (light goes to medium, medium to heavy, heavy to LAV, LAV to HAV, HAV... welll no one hides those). Second it should increase the HITBOX of the dropsuit such that they are easier to HIT by players. These two changes would effectively mimic the drawback of shield extenders in EVE for spaceships. In EVE, adding armor plates adds mass, greater mass reduces top speed, acceration, and agility (turning/alignment time). In EVE, adding shield extenders makes the ship's signature radius bloom to a larger size and thus guns that would normally not be able to track and hit the smaller ships are subsequently able to do so. This sort of change would be a BETTER and more comprehensive FIX for the situation that has caused this line of discussion. 1) I like it but at the same time I think we don't really need to go that far. 2) True. 3) The thing is, in EVE you could also use active shield tanking so I think making the hitbox larger isn't really that great of a solution since in DUST we don't really have a choice. Also in EVE there is no cover and if in DUST your hitbox got larger it might happen that you are getting hit even while behind cover. I am absolutely against making extenders increase your profile. Shield tankers generally don't have a lot of low slots to fit dampeners so adding this kind of penalty would hit them twice as hard as armor tankers. If we need a penalty to extenders at all, which I still kinda doubt, then it also should affect tanking and not EWAR. EWAR is complex enough (and will become even more so with the EWAR overhaul) even without another module having an effect on your profile. Instead I'd rather propose a penalty to shield regen, or non-depleted delay. Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 4626	Posted - 2014.11.19 23:22:00 - [73] - Quote Seriously.... (sigh) can you at least look at that completely outrageous speed penalty the Amarr get for 30-40 more hp? (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 529	Posted - 2014.11.19 23:23:00 - [74] - Quote FYI: Min Scouts and Assaults' hitbox is just as broken as Cal scouts', a little less probably but it's clearly there. Take a bow

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 11783	Posted - 2014.11.19 23:32:00 - [75] - Quote In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2229	Posted - 2014.11.19 23:41:00 - [76] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: HP modules, as in, shield extenders and armor plating? im assuming only for armor plates, as extenders dont have movement penalties extender stacking is also under the scope why? im curious. what problem do they cause? EDIT: if you were to add a penalty to extenders, the only one that makes sense coming from EVE is a penalty to scan profile. But if you do that then shield tanking would need to be looked at again. i can already think of a bunch of issues with that, especially for caldari. but that could be easily fixed with adding a bonus to regulators to offset the extender penalty. Caldari scout OPness, might someone say I have to agree with Deathwind. If you have Shield mods cause Sig Bloom (similar to MWD in Eve) you could even obsolesce the "OPness" of the Caldari Scout by virtue of the increased Sig Profiles of any dropsuits stacking Shield mods. It simply doesn't make sense to me that Shield mods would affect strafe speed at all; Armor mods, yeah, that make complete sense, Shield mods don't. FYI: Had you proposed this same thing two years ago, I would've been all over nerfing strafing into oblivion, I do not like DDR514 though I do not think this is the way to do it. Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2195	Posted - 2014.11.19 23:43:00 - [77] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. It's weight would be so little that it wouldn't be noticed. Picking up a newspaper does add weight to your body, but is it really enough to slow down your movement by any appreciable amount? Stacking shields does not give near the amount of health that stacking armor does. A basic plate gives more health than a complex extender. In fact, a basic plate with level 0 in armor plating gives more health than a complex shield extender with level 5 shield extension. Now, I would agree with a penalty to scan profile which is equivalent to the movement penalty for plates. If a CalScout wishes to remain unseen, he should be careful fitting more shield extenders to his suit. As shields give off electrical signals, an increased profile makes sense lore-wise and balance-wise. In addition to this, you could double the penalties for fitting health onto light/scout frames. So instead of a complex plate slowing them by 5%, it slows them by 10%. Instead of a complex extender increasing their profile by 5%, it increases it by 10%. This, in addition to an analogous ferroscale shield extender (a shield extender with less health that does not increase profile) would mean that a scout suffers more from stacking health, discouraging health stacking and encouraging biotic/EWAR fits. This limits how much health a scout can have,; or rather, punishes scouts for stacking health rather than biotics/EWAR, which they are intended to do. In this way, we do not punish all shield suits for the sins of the CalScout. We instead punish the CalScout for using modules he was never intended to stack, and in addition offer him health modules he can stack that A. allow him to remain undetected and B. offer less total health if so stacked. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6004	Posted - 2014.11.19 23:46:00 - [78] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. That leads to the question of how much would that shield generator way in relation to say armor plates, ferro plates, and reactive plates? Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Devadander Woodgrain Atari 157	Posted - 2014.11.19 23:52:00 - [79] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: HP modules, as in, shield extenders and armor plating? im assuming only for armor plates, as extenders dont have movement penalties extender stacking is also under the scope This is all well and good for the scout, but I fit my assault suits without plating to keep them mobile under the whole shield codex. Even with a nerf, assault will need to retain some good amount of strafe to be competitive or we are just back to square one. (playing the PLATE514 game..) "Tossin uplinks and runnin fer my life" ~ Gunny blownapart "Lets group up and push an objective" ~ No blueberry ever
hfderrtgvcd 1210	Posted - 2014.11.20 00:07:00 - [80] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. how is stacking shield extenders a "sin". What else are caldari and minmatar assaults supposed to put in their high slots? You can't fight in here! This is the war room.

NextDark Knight molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 622	Posted - 2014.11.20 00:10:00 - [81] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? Hmmm Rattati.. Is this how your gonna design the Caldari MTAC in the next vehicle balance? Megadoomer @ Timestamp 4:36 Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 89	Posted - 2014.11.20 00:19:00 - [82] - Quote Inertia clearly exists in the game, dropships utilize it while turning / changing directions. How difficult would it be to apply the thrust / mass relation to speed / mass on infantry? Assuming the suits have some sort of mass/force balance for the initial directional speeds, they would come to a stop in x seconds, then accelerate in the opposite direction.
Scout Hunter II KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 37	Posted - 2014.11.20 00:30:00 - [83] - Quote lol here is a toast....to finally killing shields! Muahahahahahahahahahhaha! > Those who sacrifice freedom in the name of security, deserve neither.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 89	Posted - 2014.11.20 00:30:00 - [84] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP. The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all. .... Couple of things - are you suggesting that my brick tanked Amarr Sentinel is too quick to hit? They're already quite vulnerable, especially when brick tanked. Additionally, it sounds like two different calculations to penalize both Scouts and Sents the same for a given shield plate. If this is the case, are you planning to implement different plates for each class? ie - light basic plates with less hp than heavy basic plates? If not, I'm struggling with how a heavy would suffer equally with a light for a given mass increase.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 249	Posted - 2014.11.20 00:30:00 - [85] - Quote Remove Aim assist then. No point havin strafe speed slower when already breach we can auto track people without aiming down sights or aiming properly.... Aim assist is not necessary at all with slow strafe speeds. Without strafe turrets wil be even more op. Large rail will 1 shot more PPl Blaster will 4 shot scouts running away but unable to strafe dodge Missile will nail the would be strafers I bet kbm users and such will still find a way to strafe ridiculously fast. Minmatar assault strafe is broken; worse hit detection than cal scout by far. NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 249	Posted - 2014.11.20 00:31:00 - [86] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP. The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all. .... Couple of things - are you suggesting that my brick tanked Amarr Sentinel is too quick to hit? They're already quite vulnerable, especially when brick tanked. Additionally, it sounds like two different calculations to penalize both Scouts and Sents the same for a given shield plate. If this is the case, are you planning to implement different plates for each class? ie - light basic plates with less hp than heavy basic plates? If not, I'm struggling with how a heavy would suffer equally with a light for a given mass increase. Your suit may be fatter but your clone isn't. More burden more hp more slow NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 5005	Posted - 2014.11.20 00:56:00 - [87] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: This is a bad idea. The only reason shield tanking is viable is because they have higher strafe speeds than armor tanked suits. Armor plates already have a more than sufficient strafe penalty. I'd recommend just reducing heavies and scouts base strafe speeds and not touching any other stats. Heavies can't strafe to save their life. Why would you even bother? It's my fault FA exists. Direct your rage to me.
SponkSponkSponk WarRavens Capital Punishment. 1113	Posted - 2014.11.20 00:58:00 - [88] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: It simply doesn't make sense to me that Shield mods would affect strafe speed at all; Armor mods, yeah, that make complete sense, Shield mods don't. The flux caused by shield generators makes a reciprocal directional impedance effect on the suit. Since more generators are on the front and back compared to the sides, it's easier to move in those directions compared to stepping sideways. Dust/Eve transfers
Miokai Zahou WarRavens Capital Punishment. 413	Posted - 2014.11.20 00:59:00 - [89] - Quote I welcome this change as it has been a very long time coming and once this has been implemented mercs will finally be able look other modules for survival besides the silliness of ehp stacking. Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 5005	Posted - 2014.11.20 01:00:00 - [90] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. Strafe penalties on armor already exist. Increase signature profile penalties on shields. Different tank, different penalty. Consistency is nice. If you want to be really consistent you could even consider widening a character's hitbox when they shield tank, and decreasing it once the shield is popped. Of course that requires changing a good amount of the base code, particularly since it wouldnt make sense if something hit a persons shield but missed their body, yet still did enough damage to bleed through and kill them. It's my fault FA exists. Direct your rage to me.

Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2232	Posted - 2014.11.20 01:03:00 - [91] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: It simply doesn't make sense to me that Shield mods would affect strafe speed at all; Armor mods, yeah, that make complete sense, Shield mods don't. The flux caused by shield generators makes a reciprocal directional impedance effect on the suit. Since more generators are on the front and back compared to the sides, it's easier to move in those directions compared to stepping sideways. +1 for trying, I still prefer the idea of Sig Bloom on Shield mods over reduction in strafe speed. Cal Scout (or any Scout for that matter) stacks shield mods? ok, you just threw stealth out the window Everyone one the opposing team stacking Shield mods? Looks like scanners will be useless this match since we'll already know where everyone is I honestly think Sig Bloom is a much more elegant way to balance them. Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Booby Tuesdays Tuesdays With Boobies 1003	Posted - 2014.11.20 01:15:00 - [92] - Quote I think this change will hurt the Min Logi the hardest. CCP already has admitted you need to stack extenders just to make it barely survivable. Look at the APEX Min Logi, nothing but shield mods. How many profile dampeners will I have to stack to make up for the need for some shields? So now what, do I brick it to avoid being instantly passively scan able? Make myself a very slow, low HP support suit? Half-Assed Forum Warrior / Half-Decent Commando / Damn Good Logi
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 90	Posted - 2014.11.20 01:17:00 - [93] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: Kensai Dragon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP. The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all. .... Couple of things - are you suggesting that my brick tanked Amarr Sentinel is too quick to hit? They're already quite vulnerable, especially when brick tanked. Additionally, it sounds like two different calculations to penalize both Scouts and Sents the same for a given shield plate. If this is the case, are you planning to implement different plates for each class? ie - light basic plates with less hp than heavy basic plates? If not, I'm struggling with how a heavy would suffer equally with a light for a given mass increase. Your suit may be fatter but your clone isn't. More burden more hp more slow Except for, the dropsuit augments your movements. You aren't necessarily carrying all that weight around, the suit is. You just control the suit.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2232	Posted - 2014.11.20 01:25:00 - [94] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: Kensai Dragon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP. The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all. .... Couple of things - are you suggesting that my brick tanked Amarr Sentinel is too quick to hit? They're already quite vulnerable, especially when brick tanked. Additionally, it sounds like two different calculations to penalize both Scouts and Sents the same for a given shield plate. If this is the case, are you planning to implement different plates for each class? ie - light basic plates with less hp than heavy basic plates? If not, I'm struggling with how a heavy would suffer equally with a light for a given mass increase. Your suit may be fatter but your clone isn't. More burden more hp more slow Except for, the dropsuit augments your movements. You aren't necessarily carrying all that weight around, the suit is. You just control the suit. Allowing someone to walk around with a 5 ton cage encasing them is one thing, allowing them to do the same gracefully is another entirely. Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9235	Posted - 2014.11.20 02:11:00 - [95] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. Aren't all dropsuits basically exo suits, in a sense? And thus they require additional energy besides your muscles to move. Basically the suit would sensor which muscles are working and then provide additional energy to help move the hefty suit (even the scout suit would probably be pretty heavy for a normal Joe to walk around in on his own). So if shield extenders must have a movement penalty, just say it is drawing this extra energy away from the suit. Amarr are the good guys Join "PIE Ground Control" for secure Amarr FW syncing and orbital support
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2889	Posted - 2014.11.20 03:45:00 - [96] - Quote If you wanna keep making shields worse than armor, give us a ***** shield module that has no penalties like ferros for armor And, if you do this, kin cats better give some *** strafe speed again or something. Im going to say it again--the problem isn't speed, its change of direction. There is no acceleration. Rather than nerf speed, nerf the ***** acceleration. Once again, attacking the symptoms and not the problem... Im disappointed to say the least. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
IZI doro Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 7	Posted - 2014.11.20 03:48:00 - [97] - Quote HP Mods vs. Strafe Speed My understanding on the premise: HP mods no longer impact total movement, but instead impact solely lateral movement ("strafing"). Impact to lateral movement is based upon "relative mass : total mass" calculations (need more definitions to give more accurate feedback on this statement). "Extrema" suits (high mobility or high defense frames) will be impacted the most. "Versatile" suits (basic and moderate mobility / defense frames) will receive less impact. Certain biotic implants may offer movement enhancement Feedback: Since Amarr, Caldari and Minmatar suits have "backpacks," should they not be weighed down more? Minmatar in-game description and lore on the other hand state that due to their inherent racial preferences to "minimalism" and "function-over-form," the suits have been stripped down to reduce weight. Would it not be more prudent and effective to address the overall speed anomaly? Penalties relative to frame type make sense. Heavies are already geared for moving under massive payloads. Mediums are geared to be modified to a certain extent. Lights are geared for operating unhindered by additional physical demands to the suit. ________________ Racial Speed Gradient: Minmatar > Gallente > Caldari > Amarr Dropsuit Speed Gradient (reference Piercing Serenity): Scout > Assault > Logistics > Commando > Sentinels *In my understanding, Logistics are slower since the tactical movement subsystems have been downgraded in order to increase the performance of equipment controller subsystems. Dropsuit Frame Penalties: Light (1.5x) > Medium (1x) > Heavy (.5x) *Frame penalties combine with movement penalties: Complex Armor Plates (+5%) * Heavy Low-slot (0.5x) = Movement Penalty (+2.5%) ^ n Every battle is a battle of attrition for me. 100hp in 5 seconds helps though
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 47	Posted - 2014.11.20 04:20:00 - [98] - Quote Piercing Serenity wrote: Jadd Hatchen wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small. Okay first you state the issue and then you come up with a good plan to fix the issue and they you CREATE A LOOPHOLE THAT NULLIFIES YOUR FIX?????!!!! Seriously if you apply it to only heavies and all mediums except for logistics dropsuits, then guess what players will do? Oh they will return to the days of the logi-slayers! Of course! If you make this change,then make it apply game-wide to all suits. Making exceptions is what breaks the game balance. If it is mass based as you say, then that implies it should be a defining part of the physics in your game and thus Scotty would shame you for trying to break those laws! Shame on you CCP!!! I am always surprised when I read post like this - one that reflects so little reading comprehension that I am truly baffled. Here is the current EHP layout by class, the combination of armor and shield strength, from greatest to least: Sentinel Commando Assault Logistics Scout Here is the actual speed layout by class, from greatest to least: Scout Assault Logistics Commando Sentinel As you can see, the position of the logistics class doesn't make sense. It has less EHP than an assault, yet it is slower than the assault. If a mass based system were to be implemented, it would require that logistics become faster than they currently are, and that assaults become slower than they currently. This would yield the following ranking of speed <--> EHP, where 1 is high speed and 5 is high EHP Scout Logistics Assault Commando Sentinel TL:DR - Speed changes would be required for the mass based system to make sense with the current EHP values of the suits as they are. We won't be returning to Slayer logis if they get a little faster. What it will likely mean is that logis will be able to rep more classes than just a heavy because they can keep up. Is that a fully laden logi, or a European logi?
Imp Smash molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 411	Posted - 2014.11.20 04:21:00 - [99] - Quote Yeah, like most other commenters I have to say shields should have no strafing penalty -- this coming from an Amarr Assault armor tanker. I still don't get the thing about Heavies and strafing though. They can't strafe as it is. Giant hit boxes. I've HAD heavies sit there and try to strafe like scouts -- and dodge almost none of the bullets. So, color me confused as to how they fit into this...
Jacques Cayton II Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1118	Posted - 2014.11.20 04:54:00 - [100] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: HP modules, as in, shield extenders and armor plating? im assuming only for armor plates, as extenders dont have movement penalties extender stacking is also under the scope Wtf their will be NO shield tanking fck this planetside 2 We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals

Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8521	Posted - 2014.11.20 05:35:00 - [101] - Quote Shield Extenders should not decrease speed. What should happen instead is Caldari suits move slower in general similar to how it is in EVE. Not Amarr slow but the way speed works in EVE is: Minmatar, Gallente, Caldari, Amarr. Currently it's like this but Caldari and Gallente are the same speed. Its also important to note that while general movement should be Minmatar and faster in every aspect but the Gallente do specialize in MWDs and Micro Jump Drives. Dust 514s equivalent is the Kinetic Catalyzer. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2202	Posted - 2014.11.20 05:37:00 - [102] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Shield Extenders should not decrease speed. What should happen instead is Caldari suits move slower in general similar to how it is in EVE. Not Amarr slow but the way speed works in EVE is: Minmatar, Gallente, Caldari, Amarr. Currently it's like this but Caldari and Gallente are the same speed. So what if we simply buff Gallente and leave Caldari where they are? Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8521	Posted - 2014.11.20 05:41:00 - [103] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Shield Extenders should not decrease speed. What should happen instead is Caldari suits move slower in general similar to how it is in EVE. Not Amarr slow but the way speed works in EVE is: Minmatar, Gallente, Caldari, Amarr. Currently it's like this but Caldari and Gallente are the same speed. So what if we simply buff Gallente and leave Caldari where they are? That could also work and is a lot better than slowing them down anymore. Barely anymore Movement speed but a focus on Sprint speed. Have it very ambush oriented. That idea is a lot better in fact, but one thing is for sure that shield extenders should absolutely not ever slow you down when it comes to speed. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1242	Posted - 2014.11.20 05:51:00 - [104] - Quote extenders have no penalties in eve, they should have no penalties here, this is the dumbest thing ive ever heard, i dont even use shields. theyre completely broken cause they dont rep passively. strafing is a skill. why are we trying to nerf it. if anything there needs to be an inertia modifier which eve has. why are we doing things that arent in eve. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1242	Posted - 2014.11.20 05:55:00 - [105] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Shield Extenders should not decrease speed. What should happen instead is Caldari suits move slower in general similar to how it is in EVE. Not Amarr slow but the way speed works in EVE is: Minmatar, Gallente, Caldari, Amarr. Currently it's like this but Caldari and Gallente are the same speed. So what if we simply buff Gallente and leave Caldari where they are? That could also work and is a lot better than slowing them down anymore. Barely anymore Movement speed but a focus on Sprint speed. Have it very ambush oriented. That idea is a lot better in fact, but one thing is for sure that shield extenders should absolutely not ever slow you down when it comes to speed. this. all suits should already have different base speeds based on race. but gallente arent ambushers, unless you mean caldari. gallente are run straight at you head on'ers. i swear who comes up with these ideas. we need to pitch in and buy a month long subscription and teach them how eve works. the depleted regen delay penalty is already wrong enough and needs to go. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 91	Posted - 2014.11.20 05:57:00 - [106] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: extenders have no penalties in eve, they should have no penalties here, this is the dumbest thing ive ever heard, i dont even use shields. theyre completely broken cause they dont rep passively. *strafing is a skill.* why are we trying to nerf it. if anything there needs to be an inertia modifier which eve has. why are we doing things that arent in eve. ROFL! WHAT? LOL
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 91	Posted - 2014.11.20 06:00:00 - [107] - Quote Shields should carry some kind of balancing penalty, not sure it should be speed though. The increased sig radius in eve, is that the equivalent to hit box or profile in Dust?
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8523	Posted - 2014.11.20 06:04:00 - [108] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Shield Extenders should not decrease speed. What should happen instead is Caldari suits move slower in general similar to how it is in EVE. Not Amarr slow but the way speed works in EVE is: Minmatar, Gallente, Caldari, Amarr. Currently it's like this but Caldari and Gallente are the same speed. So what if we simply buff Gallente and leave Caldari where they are? That could also work and is a lot better than slowing them down anymore. Barely anymore Movement speed but a focus on Sprint speed. Have it very ambush oriented. That idea is a lot better in fact, but one thing is for sure that shield extenders should absolutely not ever slow you down when it comes to speed. this. all suits should already have different base speeds based on race. but gallente arent ambushers, unless you mean caldari. gallente are run straight at you head on'ers. i swear who comes up with these ideas. we need to pitch in and buy a month long subscription and teach them how eve works. the depleted regen delay penalty is already wrong enough and needs to go. Well things can be slightly different on the ground than in DUST. Yeah, in EVE we can be straight in and gun but in space there is also no cover to utilize like you would in EVE. We also do not have the choice to use railguns and drones. Whilst in DUST, we are stuck in close range with no utilization of long range weapons (besides the plasma cannon that can hit about 200 meters out ) I also play EVE btw and in fact I'm providing Orbital Support for Gallente FW and headed for Esesier right now. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2322	Posted - 2014.11.20 06:04:00 - [109] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: Shields should carry some kind of balancing penalty, not sure it should be speed though. The increased sig radius in eve, is that the equivalent to hit box or profile in Dust? Both since it factors into the tracking equation and the scanning equation. PSN: RationalSpark
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1242	Posted - 2014.11.20 06:10:00 - [110] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Shield Extenders should not decrease speed. What should happen instead is Caldari suits move slower in general similar to how it is in EVE. Not Amarr slow but the way speed works in EVE is: Minmatar, Gallente, Caldari, Amarr. Currently it's like this but Caldari and Gallente are the same speed. So what if we simply buff Gallente and leave Caldari where they are? That could also work and is a lot better than slowing them down anymore. Barely anymore Movement speed but a focus on Sprint speed. Have it very ambush oriented. That idea is a lot better in fact, but one thing is for sure that shield extenders should absolutely not ever slow you down when it comes to speed. this. all suits should already have different base speeds based on race. but gallente arent ambushers, unless you mean caldari. gallente are run straight at you head on'ers. i swear who comes up with these ideas. we need to pitch in and buy a month long subscription and teach them how eve works. the depleted regen delay penalty is already wrong enough and needs to go. Well things can be slightly different on the ground than in DUST. Yeah, in EVE we can be straight in and gun but in space there is also no cover to utilize like you would in EVE. We also do not have the choice to use railguns and drones. Whilst in DUST, we are stuck in close range with no utilization of long range weapons (besides the plasma cannon that can hit about 200 meters out ) I also play EVE btw and in fact I'm providing Orbital Support for Gallente FW and headed for Esesier right now. i think its the devs who dont play or theyd know stuff like this. and i still use railguns on my gal suit. thats what i did in eve and i went 100% rails when they came out in dust. ive been saying for a year now they need to fix the bonuses so gal can use rails with bonuses. and cal can use blasters with bonuses. its another idiosyncrasy with dust. we need eve parity if we want balance. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.

Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2106	Posted - 2014.11.20 06:11:00 - [111] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small. Okay first you state the issue and then you come up with a good plan to fix the issue and they you CREATE A LOOPHOLE THAT NULLIFIES YOUR FIX?????!!!! Seriously if you apply it to only heavies and all mediums except for logistics dropsuits, then guess what players will do? Oh they will return to the days of the logi-slayers! Of course! If you make this change,then make it apply game-wide to all suits. Making exceptions is what breaks the game balance. If it is mass based as you say, then that implies it should be a defining part of the physics in your game and thus Scotty would shame you for trying to break those laws! Shame on you CCP!!! The fix is to stop lolStrafing Scouts from strafing at such great speeds that they can win toe to toe with aware assaults. Because you wanted to be something you're not. A hero. Do you feel like one now?
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2106	Posted - 2014.11.20 06:14:00 - [112] - Quote Can we stop applying EVELogic to DUST? Please? I'm sure the Army's strategy and gear it uses is different in use and philosophy then The navy. Infantry troops and tanks=/= Battleships. Because you wanted to be something you're not. A hero. Do you feel like one now?
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1242	Posted - 2014.11.20 06:16:00 - [113] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Can we stop applying EVELogic to DUST? Please? I'm sure the Army's strategy and gear it uses is different in use and philosophy then The navy. Infantry troops and tanks=/= Battleships. no. look in the top left corner. this is eve:dust 514. same rules. same logic. same universe. same lore. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Imp Smash molon labe. General Tso's Alliance 414	Posted - 2014.11.20 06:22:00 - [114] - Quote It's impractical to apply every feature to a FPS that you have in a point and click MMO. We are going to have to break tradition a LITTLE or the game will be impossible. TLDR (because that may be too long to read); Apply lore when you can. Ignore lore when you can't.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8523	Posted - 2014.11.20 06:26:00 - [115] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Can we stop applying EVELogic to DUST? Please? I'm sure the Army's strategy and gear it uses is different in use and philosophy then The navy. Infantry troops and tanks=/= Battleships. no. look in the top left corner. this is eve:dust 514. same rules. same logic. same universe. same lore. It's Meeko's kind of Comments are what make me facepalm hard. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1244	Posted - 2014.11.20 06:31:00 - [116] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Can we stop applying EVELogic to DUST? Please? I'm sure the Army's strategy and gear it uses is different in use and philosophy then The navy. Infantry troops and tanks=/= Battleships. no. look in the top left corner. this is eve:dust 514. same rules. same logic. same universe. same lore. It's Meeko's kind of Comments are what make me facepalm hard. the worst comment ive seen is some newberry saying hes never played eve and doesnt care about it because its probably some stupid game and doesnt have anything to do with dust and that dust should be balanced completely seperate of eve. i about put my head through the computer screen and if im being honest i almost filed a ticket requesting he be banned. i lingered over the send button longer than i care to admit before i closed the window without sending it. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2322	Posted - 2014.11.20 06:34:00 - [117] - Quote This discussion is honestly reminding me of the multi-thread multi-page battles we had back in the Mordu's forums. I think one of the punchlines from those bone-crushing forum battles was realistic physics is nice but it messes with what many peeps expect from an FPS. Personally i love torque and rotational inertia, but that kind of realism sucks for kb/m players. It's not a matter of right or wrong it's a question of what do we want the game to be? Right at the core of that question lies strafing/bunnyhopping and gungame. Some need it to make the game have any meaning at all as a competitive shooter, some despise it as unrealistic and ridiculous. It's a fundamental culture clash that can't be resolved to everyones' satisfaction. But strafing/gungame does require genuine player skill. Anybody who can't admit this is in deep denial. DUST, because it is designed as an asymmetric shooter with passive skills and tiered gear, only serves to further exacerbate the culture clash between these groups. Forget the lore and rationalizations. Rattai is proposing a tradeoff: more ehp means less strafe, end of story. Is this acceptable? For me the answer is yes, so long as the effect isn't too big. PSN: RationalSpark
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2324	Posted - 2014.11.20 06:40:00 - [118] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP. The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all. This is quite blunt, but it's been a long time coming. Extenders and Armor Plates are obviously the focus here, and Reactives and Ferroscales may be omitted in the first pass. P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small. My bolding. Relative mass/total mass is your funny way of saying F=ma, right? PSN: RationalSpark
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1244	Posted - 2014.11.20 06:41:00 - [119] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: It's impractical to apply every feature to a FPS that you have in a point and click MMO. We are going to have to break tradition a LITTLE or the game will be impossible. TLDR (because that may be too long to read); Apply lore when you can. Ignore lore when you can't. its not impractical its integeral. btw dust is supposed to be an 'mmo'fps eve has established mechanics that work. dust is the same game as eve. eves mechanics should apply everywhere. as long as the numbers are right everything needs to be on par with eve. the only difference between dust and eve is that eve has 8 guns instead of 1. thats a fair trade off when we can control the 1. everything else is 100% applicable and required to be present for this game to be a part of new eden. otherwise change the name, cut out all the descriptions and words linking it to eve. and just call it call of warfare dutyfield. new eden has rules and standards that must be followed. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1244	Posted - 2014.11.20 06:45:00 - [120] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: This discussion is honestly reminding me of the multi-thread multi-page battles we had back in the Mordu's forums. I think one of the punchlines from those bone-crushing forum battles was realistic physics is nice but it messes with what many peeps expect from an FPS. Personally i love torque and rotational inertia, but that kind of realism sucks for kb/m players. It's not a matter of right or wrong it's a question of what do we want the game to be? Right at the core of that question lies strafing/bunnyhopping and gungame. Some need it to make the game have any meaning at all as a competitive shooter, some despise it as unrealistic and ridiculous. It's a fundamental culture clash that can't be resolved to everyones' satisfaction. But strafing/gungame does require genuine player skill. Anybody who can't admit this is in deep denial. DUST, because it is designed as an asymmetric shooter with passive skills and tiered gear, only serves to further exacerbate the culture clash between these groups. Forget the lore and rationalizations. Rattai is proposing a tradeoff: more ehp means less strafe, end of story. Is this acceptable? For me the answer is yes, so long as the effect isn't too big. its acceptable for armor plates and reactives but i dont like it. its unacceptable for ferroscales or extenders. its just not how new eden works. this is only an issue because light suits can stack the same health mods as a medium or heavy suit while retaining higher speed. ideally theyd have their own subdivision of light plates. just as frigates do. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.

Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 458	Posted - 2014.11.20 07:13:00 - [121] - Quote I think I also would prefer Sig Profile penalty on extenders instead of strafe speed. A "scanned" scout is a dead Scout after all...right?
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 91	Posted - 2014.11.20 07:16:00 - [122] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Can we stop applying EVELogic to DUST? Please? I'm sure the Army's strategy and gear it uses is different in use and philosophy then The navy. Infantry troops and tanks=/= Battleships. Strategy is strategy, you just implement the tools at hand. Artillery divisions - Battle cruisers Air support - Air support Infantry - Fast assault craft The individual tactics may be different but the strategies are strikingly similar.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 91	Posted - 2014.11.20 07:18:00 - [123] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: extenders have no penalties in eve apart from sig. they should have no penalties here, we dont even have target painters or anything like that. this is the dumbest thing ive ever heard, i dont even use shields. theyre completely broken cause they dont rep passively already. strafing is a skill and a staple of first person shooters. it shouldnt be penalized in the first place. if anything there needs to be an inertia modifier which eve has. maybe make it so if you strafe for too long it compounds and slows you down. or when your in a deadsprint. you slide a little when you try to stop. why are we doing things that arent in eve. and if ferroscales have 0% movement penalties they should in absolutely no way affect strafing. just give the scouts a larger inertia modifier cause theyre faster. they cant strafe. slow down how fast a heavy suit can turn. Wait, First you said strafing shouldn't be nerfed. Then you agree there should be an inertial modifier. What's the difference?
jhon hartigan Dead Man's Game RUST415 410	Posted - 2014.11.20 07:50:00 - [124] - Quote 2 things 1:Rattati please dont nerf assaults ability to strafe, up to now it is the only thing that let us not be completely destroyed by sentinels, and dont say "you can Fit something that isnt hp" cause that s almost the only thing Worth fitting. 2 if you need to add a strafing bonus to something it should be the kincats.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5164	Posted - 2014.11.20 09:00:00 - [125] - Quote jhon hartigan wrote: 2 things 1:Rattati please dont nerf assaults ability to strafe, up to now it is the only thing that let us not be completely destroyed by sentinels, and dont say "you can Fit something that isnt hp" cause that s almost the only thing Worth fitting. 2 if you need to add a strafing bonus to something it should be the kincats. Assaults can pull the strafe glitch too. Sentinels can only dodge heavy blaster/rail turret fire. Nothing needs a strafe speed bonus EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
wripple WarRavens Capital Punishment. 218	Posted - 2014.11.20 09:11:00 - [126] - Quote Well it's about time. I got fed up with this game's CS GO-like strafe controls ages ago. My biggest pet peeve with this game for the longest time was the lack of aim adhesion coupled with comedically fast strafe speeds, giving KBM users a stupidly overpowered advantage in what is supposed to be a console FPS. Perhaps we'll finally see an end to 200 HP scouts wiggling unharmed through Boundless HMG streams. This is a tactical shooter, if you insist on making a strafe shooter then just hurry up and finish the PC version of this game where that genre belongs.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13324	Posted - 2014.11.20 09:32:00 - [127] - Quote For the love of everything that's holy don't reduce Assault speed. You will KILL the Gallente Assault, speed is a must to get anywhere near people with the Plasma Rifle. I'll just put on Rail Rifle/Combat Rifle and be done with it. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13324	Posted - 2014.11.20 09:33:00 - [128] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Kain Spero wrote: If this is implemented I do think that should modify KinCats to buff strafe speed. or myofibs ;) I love you Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13324	Posted - 2014.11.20 09:36:00 - [129] - Quote Francois Sanchez wrote: Adding penalty to shield extenders and not to ferroscale plates isn't right as ferroscale give you more HP than equal tier exenders (that btw use much more CPU PG) Moreover that penalty to shield extenders doesn' t make sense, an ewar penakty would be more logical. I know strafing cal scout is BS but you're not attacking the right problem, the true problem is that the Cal scout hitbox is broken and all light and medium suits base strafe speeds are way too high (or add inertia) Ferroscales don't get free 30hp/s. Or 50hp/s if you're a cal scout. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13324	Posted - 2014.11.20 09:46:00 - [130] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. how is stacking shield extenders a "sin". What else are caldari and minmatar assaults supposed to put in their high slots? That is a question that armor tankers ask themselves. It appears that CCP wants everyone to damage mod the hell out of their suits. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++

Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13325	Posted - 2014.11.20 09:52:00 - [131] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Shield Extenders should not decrease speed. What should happen instead is Caldari suits move slower in general similar to how it is in EVE. Not Amarr slow but the way speed works in EVE is: Minmatar, Gallente, Caldari, Amarr. Currently it's like this but Caldari and Gallente are the same speed. So what if we simply buff Gallente and leave Caldari where they are? That could also work and is a lot better than slowing them down anymore. Barely anymore Movement speed but a focus on Sprint speed. Have it very ambush oriented. That idea is a lot better in fact, but one thing is for sure that shield extenders should absolutely not ever slow you down when it comes to speed. I agree with the Kirk. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5164	Posted - 2014.11.20 10:12:00 - [132] - Quote Because you can strafe speed glitch in assault suits too. That's why shields should give strafe penalty. You're strapping on a bigger generator. I don't understand why heavies will be getting a larger penalty when their strafe speed is the worst already. I don't recall being able to dodge bullets in one. Thoughif someone can reproduce the effect I'm all ears. You can dodge heavy blasters because of the firing mechanics. But not reducing strafe on cal/min will mean only cal/min will be able to exploit the odd hit detection rather than making the playing field even. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 421	Posted - 2014.11.20 10:48:00 - [133] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Because you can strafe speed glitch in assault suits too. That's why shields should give strafe penalty. You're strapping on a bigger generator. I don't understand why heavies will be getting a larger penalty when their strafe speed is the worst already. I don't recall being able to dodge bullets in one. Thoughif someone can reproduce the effect I'm all ears. You can dodge heavy blasters because of the firing mechanics. But not reducing strafe on cal/min will mean only cal/min will be able to exploit the odd hit detection rather than making the playing field even. Strapping on bigger generator Sure thats a good excuse for the lore, but its B.S. considering stacking ferroscale give no strafe penalty but more HP. So far i haven't seen how tying strafing to hp will reduce strafing on suits that don't rely on hp, and not retain a massive advatage over suits that do. The reason I advise on cutting down across the board on moving backwards, left and right is because that what the circle strafe is, moving in a circle at a high speed, not just simply left and right. You don't have to penalize shield reliant suits. You don't need to penalize suits that rely on HP for survivability (such as min logi, if your not stacking armor and shield hp modules you're in big trouble) rather than than circle glitching. You can run forward sure, but you start dancing in the open you're in big trouble. Punishing "the many the sins of a few" is a joke. Its not just a scout thing, i have seen every suit in the game dance like mad, and they pull it off by not stacking HP. Strafe Mods are just a bad, bad idea. People will just stack strafe mods on suits and still do what they are doing now, its just as bad idea as simultaneously in creasing the fire delay to prevent shooting while cloaked, but increasing the decloack animation so we can sill shoot while cloaked. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 14883	Posted - 2014.11.20 10:51:00 - [134] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Shield Extenders should not decrease speed. What should happen instead is Caldari suits move slower in general similar to how it is in EVE. Not Amarr slow but the way speed works in EVE is: Minmatar, Gallente, Caldari, Amarr. Currently it's like this but Caldari and Gallente are the same speed. So what if we simply buff Gallente and leave Caldari where they are? That could also work and is a lot better than slowing them down anymore. Barely anymore Movement speed but a focus on Sprint speed. Have it very ambush oriented. That idea is a lot better in fact, but one thing is for sure that shield extenders should absolutely not ever slow you down when it comes to speed. I agree with the Kirk. I would agree with Kirk but am a little confused are we talking about percentages of speed penalty or fixed values. Fact of the matter is the Amarr are already noticeably slow and less manoeuvrable than other suits which is enough of a penalty for the 40 HP (one bullet) ehp we gain. I mean I am not wholly against mass penalties because on ships with high mass like Amarr ships such penalties are somewhat mitigated..... But I'll be damned if I let you guys forget that in EVE the Amarr have some of the fastest ships in the game in the form of the Slicer and Crusader..... hell if there is anything in the WZ as fast as a Slicer ( 4.5 km/p sec) and the Crusader than can remain combat worthy as well I haven't seen it. "The moment passed in thunder and calamitous intent and yet no order was given to retreat or give their ground"
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5165	Posted - 2014.11.20 10:55:00 - [135] - Quote I will see your slicer and raise you one taranis. Might not be as fast... but you're not getting away. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5166	Posted - 2014.11.20 11:03:00 - [136] - Quote Back on topic: Rattati I am going to request in the most serious way possible: Please do not introduce any strafe bonuses to modules until dropsuits have inertia. Inertia would cause sentinels and scouts to become dead trying to juke because changing durection suddenly with lots of mass has the same effect as lots of momentum while leaving assaults and logis with the least penalty due to average mass+momentum. But given the current mechanics adding any sort of strafe acceleration will result in the problem being made worse. Orbital strafe, for lack of a better term, isn't a problem. But if scouts are able to add strafe via myofibrils they will actually be able to completely outstrafe all turn speeds due to the DUST controls being clunky and slow across the board. The circle strafe, figure 8 and slider 5m strafe will also enjoy higher efficiency in dodging bullets. I believe allowing a strafe buff of any kind will require implementation of better control schemes both for kbm and ds3/4. It will require inertia as well as your defensive mod offset. Please don't buff strafe speeds. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 183	Posted - 2014.11.20 11:46:00 - [137] - Quote For me, the whole point of shield tanking for many players is to be mobile... However, on the other hand... The whole point of stacking HP mods- regardless of whether they're shields or armor, is exactly the same thing. To get HP to survive more damage. Being able to strafe fast and being mobile are not the same thing... I don't strafe across the battlefield to reposition myself, nobody should be depending on HP mods or strafing for a mobile hit and run style. I don't strafe my way to objectives at the start of the match, and I don't strafe to catch up to tanks- I strafe in combat, it's something I do in a face to face confrontation or when I want to peak from cover. This isn't Quake. As long as shield mods don't actually slow down your ability to sprint or your turn speed or other stupid stuff, it will be fine. Personally, as someone who wants to see the fitting meta move beyond the current meta of HP stacking, I welcome the changes. I honestly have no sympathy for people who just go out and stack tons of shields and armor. (Except for the Amarr, they just want to do their thing.) Not to mention that it sounds like this can be a big buff to minmatar suits as they're not as dependent on stacking HP. Still though, what's up with this post? It a pretty vague announcement that doesn't address any issue in particular. "Oh hey guys, we've spontaneously decided we're going to add strafing penalties to HP mods, so you can't say you didn't get the memo this time!" What exactly is this trying to fix? HMG dominance in matches? Scouts stacking hit points? The homogenized fitting meta of only stacking HP mods and reps? The lack of penalties on using prototype gear? The general prevalence and over-viability of strafing with even heavy suits? Why not change how the HMG handles first? Maybe turn it into a more defensive weapon? Too many people just run and gun with the thing. Why not change scout bonuses to e-war mod efficacy first? Why not let the e-war penalties on the HP mods? I think part of the problem of this post is that you didn't explain to the players what the goals were, not to mention the lack of numbers, which explains the negative reception, shield tankers here are assuming they're getting poop for dinner tonight. Also, I'm a bit surprised at how dedicated armor tankers are reacting in this thread. I understand shields don't have speed penalties in EVE, but wouldn't it not be fair to them if shield tankers could stack nearly as much HP for the exact same purpose and strafe totally unpenalized? What about the scenario between a prototype caldari assault with 5 complex shield extenders against basic amarr suit with 1 or 2 complex plates. The armor tanker would be drastically slower in comparison, despite only having a few armor plates and less HP and less reps... He'd be a sitting duck in comparison. Now imagine if that shield tanker decided to put armor plates in the lows, then he'd still be able to strafe faster and have more HP. It just wouldn't be fair. Anyways, those are my initial thoughts on it so please don't forget unplug the night light in my sleep.
Lightning35 Delta514 48TH SPECIAL OPERATIONS FORCE 104	Posted - 2014.11.20 11:54:00 - [138] - Quote TRULY ELITE wrote: As a mainly shield tanker I feel like this is only going to put shields even further behind armour than they already are. Armour tankers can stack ferroes and be immune to the bonus whilst still having more HP than the equivelant extender at 1/2 the cost of CPU/PG. You might say oh but I need armour reps, with the halved fitting costs all you'll need are triage hives and you'll be able to fit those easily. Let's say I use a caldari scout, I need some HP and 2 complex shields is what you need since anything less than that is pointless amounts. Your giving me no choice but to use extenders which are part of this penalty and there are no other shield HP mods, this is a unfair move as your giving shield tankers no choice which we don't even have anyway. TLDR: if your going to introduce something like this HP modules need a rework in terms of CPU/PG costs and health given and more variety. You are right. This shouldn't affect shields. If it only affects armor then more people will look at shield tanking and possibly bring shields up and leveled to armor. Minmatar-assault combat rifle, flaylock pistol, tanked, quick. Before you know it..........your dead.......
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5166	Posted - 2014.11.20 11:58:00 - [139] - Quote Actually I predict strafing penalties and inertia requiring the HMG be toned down. As it stands it's too easy to dance through the reticle. Take that away and TTK is going to drop sharply EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5168	Posted - 2014.11.20 12:39:00 - [140] - Quote There is no talk of increasing the forward momentum or reverse momentum of dropsuits. Just side to side. Side to side does notaffect movement to contact. Side to side only comes into play when players shuffle back and forth. And KBM users have no more advantage than DS3 because of how controls are handles. In fact circle strafe and figure 8 are more effective and the DS3 is superior for that. If you think KBM is inherently superior then you either suck with the DS3 or you have never used KBM. Seriously it sucks equally with the DS3. It just sucks DIFFERENTLY. But no this will not kill the gallente assault. I doubt it will fuss them much. At worst it's going to force sentinels to play like I do: battering ram. It will also make scouts cry. Inertia really needs to happen for this to really be a great solution though. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

Jebus McKing 1024	Posted - 2014.11.20 13:04:00 - [141] - Quote If you don't want people to strafe left-right-left-right then add a inertia system to strafing, so you don't reach your max strafe speed immediately when changing direction. This would penalise the wiggle-wiggle strafing but not affect strafing in one direction only. --- If scout bonuses would affect module efficacy instead of base stats you would instantly see either less tanked scouts or tanked scouts with awful EWAR, and I think we should wait and see how this, alongside the rest of the EWAR changes, changes the game before making further adjustments. --- If you think stacking HP modules is too effective then buff the other modules. Sadly enough the risk VS reward for many modules is just much worse than for HP modules. Most other modules (except for damage mods) will only help you inbetween fights, and for that downside most of them are just too weak to be worth the risk. The issue with too many people only stacking HP is just a logical consequence of them trying to win fights and not trying to be more effective while not fighting. And the measly 25% hack speed of a complex codebreaker won't really help you when you are staring into the barrel of a HMG, but an armor plate certainly will. --- If you absolutely want to add another penalty to shield extenders then make it affect the tanking ability and not the ability of something that has nothing to do with tanking. For example make shield extenders reduce shield regen rate by 3/4/5%, and then buff rechargers and energizers slightly to make people consider using those instead of extenders. LOL @ everyone who wants shield extenders to increase scan profile. Sure you can demand that because it wouldn't affect you and your HP stacked Assaults, Logis, Sentinels who don't care about EWAR anyway. --- As a Minmatar Sentinel user I have to say I will not support any changes that negatively affect my mobility because I already die just as quickly as most Assaults. A strafe speed penalty would hit Minmatar Heavies even more than most other Sentinels who don't care too much about mobility anyway when they stack those complex plates. Hell, if you stack those complex plates on a Amarr Sentinel the strafe speed becomes pathetically slow already but that doesn't stop them from dominating CQC engagements. But to be honest, I don't have a definate answer to what to do about Heavies. Maybe, maybe giving Amarr heavies 1200 BASE HP wasn't such a good idea. Or making the HMG have a dps of 800+ (with prof and/or dmg mods). Or making the core focused rep-tool rep heavies at 150hp/s. One thing is for certain. A strafe speed penalty won't hurt those armor stacking Amarr/Gallente Sentinels too much, because hitting a Heavy really is not a problem. Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3167	Posted - 2014.11.20 13:39:00 - [142] - Quote Shield extenders should increase your hit box size. If this is too hard to implement, it would be acceptable to simulate an increased hitbox by some other means. Perhaps a strafe speed reduction is proportional to a hit box size increase? I think it might be, so I am all for this. EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3167	Posted - 2014.11.20 13:46:00 - [143] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. One could reason that the dense metal used in the electromagnets used to generate shields decrease movement speed significantly. EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 995	Posted - 2014.11.20 13:52:00 - [144] - Quote Tesfa Alem wrote: The purpose is to stop bullet dodging. Bullet dodging is done best by low hp scouts circling very fast. According to your proposal If you fit hp, you will not dodge bullets very well.If i'm I'm a scout that fits a bare minmum of hp modules, how will this affect me? If I don't fit hp but fit a strafe boost module wouldn't i be able to dodge bulets even better than before? Dancing sentinels are a problem, they usually fit kin cats and cardiac regulators. We want to stop dancing sentinels. So we penalize sentinels that don't fit kincats and card regs, but HP? The suits that most heavily depend on HP modules, Assaults and logis are not supposed to be affected by penalizing movment if they use the modules they rely upon? Why not just an across the board reduction to strafing circles? Simply make running backwards, left and right slower than sprinting? CCP Rattati wrote: The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. Sorry man I've read every post here and I think you need to be clearer on who the "few" are? Is it CalScout? Or is it brick-tanking suits more generally? As a scout that wears very little in the way of HP modules, I'd draw your attention again to Tesfa's post (quoted above). What problem are you attempting to fix? Strafing as a bullet-avoidance technique always seemed pretty dumb to me, and I doubt it is by design. But, I don't play any other FPS, plus I play sneaky bastard scout, so I rarely bullet-strafe as it is. I shoot you in the back or the side most of the time, so I doubt it will affect my game too much. Consider also what the buff to snipers lining up those head-shots will be...balance is a ***** :) You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
Grimmiers 719	Posted - 2014.11.20 13:57:00 - [145] - Quote Side to side strafing isn't as much of a problem as the circle strafes. The movement should be interpolated to make deceleration from changing direction a lot more realistic instead of having a seemingly constant speed. Constant moving should also decrease accuracy more, just not to counter strike levels because this is a high hp shooter. I'll just wait and see what happens with this one.
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 536	Posted - 2014.11.20 14:30:00 - [146] - Quote If you're definitely putting Strafe penalities on Shield Extenders, the solution to not make all shield tankers go armor (as if there would be many shield tankers nowadays lol) is the following: - Increase ferroscales and reactives PG/CPU requirements - OR - Increase shield extenders HP, decrease its PG usage at PRO level from 11 to 9 (it would just make sense since it's 3 for STD and 6 for ADV) - Nerf the Breach AR, lower the headshot efficiency of the Scrambler weapons and nerf ScR's Alpha damage, along with a clip size reduction because reasons. Another solution you could consider for fixing both Shield Tanking and to get on par with the Strafe nerf is removing AA. Why would it help to fix Shield tanking? Because currently Anti-shield weapons - emphasis on Breach AR, ScR and breach ScP - literally have aimbots put on them, adding this to the fact that the Breach AR and the ScR are the FoTM and the breach ScP is by far the best sidearm in CQC. Take a bow
Jack McReady Dust University Ivy League 1653	Posted - 2014.11.20 14:31:00 - [147] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: I don't see how weightless energy could cause slower movement speed shield generators are heavy. Killer's Coys wrote: shield extender vs ferro plate shield has less HP shield cost more PG/CPU shield has a shield regen penality No need to nerf them shields have huge regeneration values for free. to be equal in armor repair you end with less hp and less fitting left. basically shields are for guerilla, armor for brawling thus you cant compare it that way. hates gonna hate
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2325	Posted - 2014.11.20 14:40:00 - [148] - Quote OMFG. Does everybody who plays this game hate strafing? I had no idea. Maybe all the strafers already left. PSN: RationalSpark
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5171	Posted - 2014.11.20 14:47:00 - [149] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: OMFG. Does everybody who plays this game hate strafing? I had no idea. Maybe all the strafers already left. Because it's a dumbass dodge mechanic that has been eliminated from modern FPS. Real world physics also render it impossible. Moving rapidly AROUND a target in an orbital path trying to keep ahead of them turning? Not a problem. Jumping back and forth across a 2m span dodging bullets at danger close range? Utterly stupid. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5171	Posted - 2014.11.20 14:49:00 - [150] - Quote And let's be fair to shield tanks. Make ferroscale and reactives carry the same penalty as extenders. After all they add similar EHP values. Giving 66 HP shield extenders a strafe penalty but exempting 70 HP plates seems rather... One-sided. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.

Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2237	Posted - 2014.11.20 14:50:00 - [151] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: OMFG. Does everybody who plays this game hate strafing? I had no idea. Maybe all the strafers already left. Been here since Mordu's Still think strafing should've been aborted Still think Extenders affecting strafe speed is not the way to go. Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 422	Posted - 2014.11.20 14:57:00 - [152] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: [quote=Alena Ventrallis] shields have huge regeneration values for free. to be equal in armor repair you end with less hp and less fitting left. basically shields are for guerilla, armor for brawling thus you cant compare it that way. hates gonna hate Shield regen isnt really free. I can get an amarr/gallente assault armor rep at about 20 reps per second and still stack two enhanced plates on them. 10 hp less sure, but much more added eHP than 3 extenders and an energizer. The caldari and minmatar asaults base shield regen is about 30hp a second. Energizers help to buff that, but even with 3 complex shield extenders, i get more out ehp out of my two enhanced plates on my armor suits. Medium suit regen is roughly the same, and on my armor suits, there is nothing to stop me from fitting an energizer in the high slots at all. I can fit an ADV amarr assault with 2 extenders and an energizer, along with 2-3 armor rep modules and plates, and out rep the average caldari shields and armor. Throw on a lazooor and i'm good to go for long range fights. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2325	Posted - 2014.11.20 15:23:00 - [153] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: And let's be fair to shield tanks. Make ferroscale and reactives carry the same penalty as extenders. After all they add similar EHP values. Giving 66 HP shield extenders a strafe penalty but exempting 70 HP plates seems rather... One-sided. Shouldn't have to say this but by strafing you're messing your opponents aim, not dodging bullets. It's a way of turning a lacklustre engagement into a personal skill contest. And in situations where a merc is wearing power armor with regeneration, taking a few hits to disorient your opponent is an eminently viable tactic. One could even say that's what power armor was for. We already have very solid aim assist and lots of explosive/splash weapons. Are we trying to evolve DUST into a game where personal skill with a controller or kb/m really isn't that important? PSN: RationalSpark
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2240	Posted - 2014.11.20 15:38:00 - [154] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Are we trying to evolve DUST into a game where personal skill with a controller or kb/m really isn't that important? I've always hoped for Dust to be a Sci-Fi Military Sim/MMOFPS not a Sci-Fi Arcade shooter. Also, strafing isn't about personal skill, it is about wiggling joysticks around and thinking that it is a display of skill. I would hope that strategy would be more important than that. As it is now, all strafing encourages strategy wise is "run around from place to place wiggling and twitching my way to a high KDR, **** helping my team I'm here for the kills". At least that is my impression of it given what I have seen in my time here. Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5177	Posted - 2014.11.20 15:56:00 - [155] - Quote Wiggling the stick... so accurate. Strafe dodging is the equivalent of playing mortal kombat and claiming that button mashing to victory requires skill. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2325	Posted - 2014.11.20 15:58:00 - [156] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Are we trying to evolve DUST into a game where personal skill with a controller or kb/m really isn't that important? I've always hoped for Dust to be a Sci-Fi Military Sim/MMOFPS not a Sci-Fi Arcade shooter. Also, strafing isn't about personal skill, it is about wiggling joysticks around and thinking that it is a display of skill. I would hope that strategy would be more important than that. As it is now, all strafing encourages strategy wise is "run around from place to place wiggling and twitching my way to a high KDR, **** helping my team I'm here for the kills". At least that is my impression of it given what I have seen in my time here. In truth, strategy is neutral wrt the presence of strafing mechanics or not. The better strategist/logistician/team will always win. The existence of strafing simply expands the tactical envelope. And if you honestly believe that strafing/gungame is not a skill...i dunno what to say, it seem obvious to me. PSN: RationalSpark
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 575	Posted - 2014.11.20 15:59:00 - [157] - Quote Is it technically possible to modify the hitbox? Imagine that the shields form a bubble, and a near miss is still deflected/absorbed. I would want parity with armor in terms of HP, but the tradeoff would be different. Sure you can strafe dance, but your shield extenders stack up to a heavy-sized hitbox. If you fit armor plates you are not noticeably wider, but you can't move as fast. There will be bullets. ACR+SMG [CEO of Terror]
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5178	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:00:00 - [158] - Quote It's something that breaks hit detection. That's not skill that's a mechanical exploit dependent upon poor base mechanics and lag. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Jadd Hatchen KILL-EM-QUICK 658	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:00:00 - [159] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. I don't think you are getting it Rattati... The real issue is that small fast scouts are brick tanking... But that wouldn't be an issue if you could hit the freakishly fast buggers at close ranges, but you cant for two reasons... 1 - the mechanical interface of the game (the PS3 controller) is not designed to whip around in an instant like a person could in real life and still maintain fine aiming control in the process. This is something completely outside of your control so you cannot do much about it... 2 - the HITBOX of scouts is too freaking small!!!! That's ok if they have equivalently smaller HP totals, but when someone brick tanks that same freakishly fast and now freakishly small target's hitbox, then the combination of the three things together compounds the errors to create a broken situation. As with everything, difficult errors come not from one source but multiple sources that combine in one instance to cause the issue. So realizing that the issue you are trying to fix here is really only centered around a FEW being bad (you said so above), then stop trying to create a mechanic that covers all and instead address the issue with the FEW. In this case the easiest fix is to fix the HITBOX of the scouts. The next easiest fix is to nerf the speed of the scouts... not a fan of this one as scouts are meant to be fast. Another possible fix is to make tanking mods based on a percentage of the dropsuit they are fitted to... Thus stacking extenders on a scout has diminishing returns, but doing so on a heavy has greater effects as it should. Another possible fix is to make armor plates cost agility/speed/strafe speed and shield extenders cause the HITBOX to increase, but this may be difficult to code variable hitbox sizes. Another very heavy-handed method would be to just put a limit to tanking mods on specific dropsuits. People won't like this and it's counter to the emergent gameplay aspect of the game. And yes you could make both armor and shield tanking cause a speed penalty, however that is counter to currently understood mechanics of how the various factions develop their equipment as well as a serious change to the META of the gameplay.
Doshneil Antaro Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 305	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:07:00 - [160] - Quote Sorry CCP but this purposed fixed seems to be too bloated and leaves way too many loopholes. It is good that you recognise straffing is an issue but your solution is overly complicated and both sides are pretty much agreeing that this would not work. Why don't you directly deal with the issue by tweeking each suits strafe speed? just lower every suits strafe by X% and see were that leaves us. BTW myofibs need love I agree, but adding back to the problem just is plain broken logic. TLDR- address the issue at the source. Sage /thread

Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2240	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:07:00 - [161] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Are we trying to evolve DUST into a game where personal skill with a controller or kb/m really isn't that important? I've always hoped for Dust to be a Sci-Fi Military Sim/MMOFPS not a Sci-Fi Arcade shooter. Also, strafing isn't about personal skill, it is about wiggling joysticks around and thinking that it is a display of skill. I would hope that strategy would be more important than that. As it is now, all strafing encourages strategy wise is "run around from place to place wiggling and twitching my way to a high KDR, **** helping my team I'm here for the kills". At least that is my impression of it given what I have seen in my time here. In truth, strategy is neutral wrt the presence of strafing mechanics or not. The better strategist/logistician/team will always win. The existence of strafing simply expands the tactical envelope. And if you honestly believe that strafing/gungame is not a skill...i dunno what to say, it seem obvious to me. Sorry, IMHO, Strafing is an attempt by AD/HD kids to validate their hyperactivity. Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 431	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:08:00 - [162] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. I hope that you guys consider adding weight/mass to all modules. Gallente Speed Scout. EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
Jadd Hatchen KILL-EM-QUICK 660	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:11:00 - [163] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: Shields should carry some kind of balancing penalty, not sure it should be speed though. The increased sig radius in eve, is that the equivalent to hit box or profile in Dust? It's more equivalent to hitbox because sig affects both the ability to track and hit a target as well and increasing the amount of effective damage that target takes when it does get hit.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2240	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:14:00 - [164] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Kensai Dragon wrote: Shields should carry some kind of balancing penalty, not sure it should be speed though. The increased sig radius in eve, is that the equivalent to hit box or profile in Dust? It's more equivalent to hitbox because sig affects both the ability to track and hit a target as well and increasing the amount of effective damage that target takes when it does get hit. Increasing hitbox seems too heavy handed, Sig Profile on the other hand seems to fit more if you ask me. If you're generating all of that power necessary to generate/modify the extra shields, it stands to reason that you'd be easier to scan down. Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Jadd Hatchen KILL-EM-QUICK 660	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:15:00 - [165] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Can we stop applying EVELogic to DUST? Please? I'm sure the Army's strategy and gear it uses is different in use and philosophy then The navy. Infantry troops and tanks=/= Battleships. It's not an army versus navy thing (and besides which for budget reasons they are all "combined arms" anyways now so they utilize the same resources in many cases). It's about staying with the lore of the game so that players will know that when they choose to be an Amarr toon, then they know that they will be using lasers and armor as opposed to using random things that have no immediate sense to them.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2325	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:17:00 - [166] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: It's something that breaks hit detection. That's not skill that's a mechanical exploit dependent upon poor base mechanics and lag. Lag/hit detection are completely separate technical issues. Whether one likes skill-based strafing gunplay is a different question. Are we saying we need to nerf lateral movement(again) in DUST because the game engine can't handle it? Fine, if that's the case there not much we can do about it. Are we going to keep these anti-strafing anti-gungame mechanics if/when we move to Legion or whatever the next incarnation of DUST will be? PSN: RationalSpark
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 195	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:24:00 - [167] - Quote Francois Sanchez wrote: Adding penalty to shield extenders and not to ferroscale plates isn't right as ferroscale give you more HP than equal tier exenders (that btw use much more CPU PG) Moreover that penalty to shield extenders doesn' t make sense, an ewar penakty would be more logical. I know strafing cal scout is BS but you're not attacking the right problem, the true problem is that the Cal scout hitbox is broken and all light and medium suits base strafe speeds are way too high (or add inertia) this is true
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 483	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:31:00 - [168] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Whether one likes skill-based strafing gunplay is a different question. Which of the following more aptly describes the state of strafing in Dust 514? A) Moving deliberately in attempt to throw an opponent's aim. B) Spraying frantically while mashing ADAD or wiggling thumb.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2240	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:38:00 - [169] - Quote Ok, so this might be a stupid question but I have to ask it. Can someone please define "gungame"? I tried googling it and all I got for hits were references to a CS mod Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Kensai Dragon Dust University Ivy League 93	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:42:00 - [170] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Ok, so this might be a stupid question but I have to ask it. Can someone please define "gungame"? I tried googling it and all I got for hits were references to a CS mod Gun game - My S&W sending 5 shots in 5 seconds into a 6" target at 10 yds.

Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2240	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:44:00 - [171] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Ok, so this might be a stupid question but I have to ask it. Can someone please define "gungame"? I tried googling it and all I got for hits were references to a CS mod Gun game - My S&W sending 5 shots in 5 seconds into a 6" target at 10 yds. So aim/rate of fire is gungame? Cause that is what your example is telling me Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Kensai Dragon Dust University Ivy League 93	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:47:00 - [172] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Kensai Dragon wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Ok, so this might be a stupid question but I have to ask it. Can someone please define "gungame"? I tried googling it and all I got for hits were references to a CS mod Gun game - My S&W sending 5 shots in 5 seconds into a 6" target at 10 yds. So aim/rate of fire is gungame? Cause that is what your example is telling me It's basically the catch-all phrase for 'I can shoot you better'. Generally applied to shooting while moving, but also to whatever aspect you're better at than the opponent.
Meisterjager Jagermeister Red and Silver Hand Amarr Empire 505	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:47:00 - [173] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Assault speed reductionl. I sure hope you have some cool ass shht planned for assaults! Every time I think I'm ready to skill into them I read something like this and say NAH. AKA - StarVenger
Jadd Hatchen KILL-EM-QUICK 660	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:47:00 - [174] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: This discussion is honestly reminding me of the multi-thread multi-page battles we had back in the Mordu's forums. I think one of the punchlines from those bone-crushing forum battles was realistic physics is nice but it messes with what many peeps expect from an FPS. Personally i love torque and rotational inertia, but that kind of realism sucks for kb/m players. It's not a matter of right or wrong it's a question of what do we want the game to be? Right at the core of that question lies strafing/bunnyhopping and gungame. Some need it to make the game have any meaning at all as a competitive shooter, some despise it as unrealistic and ridiculous. It's a fundamental culture clash that can't be resolved to everyones' satisfaction. But strafing/gungame does require genuine player skill. Anybody who can't admit this is in deep denial. DUST, because it is designed as an asymmetric shooter with passive skills and tiered gear, only serves to further exacerbate the culture clash between these groups. Forget the lore and rationalizations. Rattai is proposing a tradeoff: more ehp means less strafe, end of story. Is this acceptable? For me the answer is yes, so long as the effect isn't too big. And for me the answer is only a partial yes and only if the other half is implemented too... That being that armor has the nerf to strafe effect as proposed, but shields should instead increase ewar sig or increases hitbox size or both. Why? Why have any difference between shields and armor at all? Why not just remove shields altogether and just tell everyone that if you want more HP you use armor only? Because there is supposed to be a difference in style is why!!! This is not BF3 or CoD etc. This is DUST514 where you give different tools to the players that have different effects and let the players decide how they wish to use them. If you make both shields and armor the same penalties then what's the point? No real choice anymore. So you make armor give the speed/strafe penalties and make shields have some OTHER DIFFERENT penalty and this gives the player a choice in which way they want to used it. The secondary effect is that if there are DIFFERENT penalties for doing shield and armor tanking, then it gets rid of the DUAL TANK PHILOSOPHY that DUST514 somehow has... Because if armor reduces speed/strafe and shields makes your sig bloom, then you realize that doing both only incurs both drawbacks and is inefficient! Oh look, we kill two birds with one stone! We remove brick tanking AND make it less likely to dual tank in one fix!!!! Seriously, the reason we keep quoting EVE solutions for similar problems in this game is because EVE has 10+ years of developmental experience over what DUST 514 has. EVE has already figured out a lot of the game science behind the why's and wherefore's of this stuff. So why reinvent the wheel? Are you reading this CCP RATTATAI? I hope you are, because THIS^^^^^ is the reason why applying the same drawback to two different systems is BAD for this game.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2240	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:48:00 - [175] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Kensai Dragon wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Ok, so this might be a stupid question but I have to ask it. Can someone please define "gungame"? I tried googling it and all I got for hits were references to a CS mod Gun game - My S&W sending 5 shots in 5 seconds into a 6" target at 10 yds. So aim/rate of fire is gungame? Cause that is what your example is telling me It's basically the catch-all phrase for 'I can shoot you better'. Generally applied to shooting while moving, but also to whatever aspect you're better at than the opponent. So it is something nebulous that is easily attributed to luck? Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2207	Posted - 2014.11.20 17:18:00 - [176] - Quote Gonna say it again. 1. Double the penalties for stacking health on light frames. 2. Change shield extender penalty to a scan profile penalty. 3. Add in a "ferroscale" shield extender with less HP but no profile penalty for CalScouts. Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
Myron Kundera The Generals 108	Posted - 2014.11.20 17:18:00 - [177] - Quote Hehehehe, this is a M/KB user nerf. We all know those guys overbenefit from strafing speed. "Greed, the forgotten mental disease" "Spray and pray makes my day" "Will use proto gear in self defense"
Kensai Dragon Dust University Ivy League 93	Posted - 2014.11.20 17:21:00 - [178] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Kensai Dragon wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Ok, so this might be a stupid question but I have to ask it. Can someone please define "gungame"? I tried googling it and all I got for hits were references to a CS mod It's basically the catch-all phrase for 'I can shoot you better'. Generally applied to shooting while moving, but also to whatever aspect you're better at than the opponent. So it is something nebulous that is easily attributed to luck? Sometimes, especially if it's the other guy who got lucky, but never if you're the lucky one, lol Also sometimes used as troll bait. Like I said, it's a catch all. If I use cover more effectively and pick you off, it's gun game. If I move/strafe and kill you first, it's gun game. Anything I can do well is gun game. If you do it well, it's only gun game when I approve of the style, lol
Jadd Hatchen KILL-EM-QUICK 661	Posted - 2014.11.20 17:22:00 - [179] - Quote So just to sum up the reasons why doing this change to BOTH armor and shields is bad... 1 - If you give both armor and shields the same penalty, you take choices and options for emergent gamplay away from the players. 2 - If you give both armor and shields the same penalty, then you make dual tanking more viable as an option. 3 - Why have a difference between shields and armor to begin with? Why not combine them and make them the same then? 4 - Making them the same takes away some of the "flavor" or differences in the different factions... again, why have different factions if they are the same? 5 - It doesn't address the real problem which is that scouts have a combination of small hitbox with faster speeds and can still HP tank on top of that. Combine that with the failures in lag/latency/hit-detection in this game as well as the limitations of a PS3 controller and you created the "perfect storm" of OP'ness that has created this issue. Fix ideas: 1 - Change the hitbox on scouts. 2 - Implement speed/strafe penaltyfor armor tank mods, but at the same time implement EWAR/hitbox penalty for shield tank mods. 3 - Reduce racial base speeds for suits to effectively nerf this issue... again until the next time it creeps back into the game. 4 - Add in a new mechanic where damage done is reduced the faster you are moving... As in if you stand still and hit your target then you get maximum damage potential, but if you are moving/strafing at high speeds, then your damage gets reduced by up to 50% max when you do score a hit. 5 - Right now people are favoring the EWAR only penalty for shields, but I doubt that alone will fix the issue completely as they will still be able to move super fast in close ranges and dance dance their way to shotgunning heaven. There's probably more, but this is a better start at the issue rather than what you guys are already implementing because I know that at the point you've started these discussions here on the forums, you've already gone through multiple meetings etc back at the offices in Shanghai and have already decided that this is the path you are going to use anyways unless a HGUE issue is found. Well CCP Rattati, this is us the playerbase telling you that there IS a HUGE issue with applying the SAME PENALTY to both armor tanking AND shield tanking.
Kensai Dragon Dust University Ivy League 93	Posted - 2014.11.20 17:26:00 - [180] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: So just to sum up the reasons why doing this change to BOTH armor and shields is bad... 1 - If you give both armor and shields the same penalty, you take choices and options for emergent gamplay away from the players. 2 - If you give both armor and shields the same penalty, then you make dual tanking more viable as an option. 3 - Why have a difference between shields and armor to begin with? Why not combine them and make them the same then? 4 - Making them the same takes away some of the "flavor" or differences in the different factions... again, why have different factions if they are the same? 5 - It doesn't address the real problem which is that scouts have a combination of small hitbox with faster speeds and can still HP tank on top of that. Combine that with the failures in lag/latency/hit-detection in this game as well as the limitations of a PS3 controller and you created the "perfect storm" of OP'ness that has created this issue. Fix ideas: 1 - Change the hitbox on scouts. 2 - Implement speed/strafe penaltyfor armor tank mods, but at the same time implement EWAR/hitbox penalty for shield tank mods. 3 - Reduce racial base speeds for suits to effectively nerf this issue... again until the next time it creeps back into the game. 4 - Add in a new mechanic where damage done is reduced the faster you are moving... As in if you stand still and hit your target then you get maximum damage potential, but if you are moving/strafing at high speeds, then your damage gets reduced by up to 50% max when you do score a hit. 5 - Right now people are favoring the EWAR only penalty for shields, but I doubt that alone will fix the issue completely as they will still be able to move super fast in close ranges and dance dance their way to shotgunning heaven. There's probably more, but this is a better start at the issue rather than what you guys are already implementing because I know that at the point you've started these discussions here on the forums, you've already gone through multiple meetings etc back at the offices in Shanghai and have already decided that this is the path you are going to use anyways unless a HGUE issue is found. Well CCP Rattati, this is us the playerbase telling you that there IS a HUGE issue with applying the SAME PENALTY to both armor tanking AND shield tanking. ^^^THIS^^^ Excellent summary

Vesta Opalus Bloodline Rebellion Capital Punishment. 187	Posted - 2014.11.20 17:36:00 - [181] - Quote Yay for making strafing less rediculous
Kensai Dragon Dust University Ivy League 94	Posted - 2014.11.20 18:03:00 - [182] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Kensai Dragon wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Kensai Dragon wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Ok, so this might be a stupid question but I have to ask it. Can someone please define "gungame"? I tried googling it and all I got for hits were references to a CS mod Gun game - My S&W sending 5 shots in 5 seconds into a 6" target at 10 yds. So aim/rate of fire is gungame? Cause that is what your example is telling me It's basically the catch-all phrase for 'I can shoot you better'. Generally applied to shooting while moving, but also to whatever aspect you're better at than the opponent. So it is something nebulous that is easily attributed to luck? To put this in the context of strafing, strafers will say that maintaining your target while moving is a skill. Specifically to that point, there is merit to the argument. The problem is inherent limitations in internet games, specifically dealing with the coordination between where I see you, where you actually are, and whether the game recognizes that you were in my line of fire. This is CCP's current issue to solve, what we affectionately call the 'wiggle dance'.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5185	Posted - 2014.11.20 18:11:00 - [183] - Quote the only reason people are favoring an EWAR penalty for shields is the fact that shield suits are the easiest to abuse hit detection failures using the strafing thing. I'm sorry, but this is transparent as hell. Allow me to say: Nerf my calscout please. Seriously, the calscout is goddamn easy mode even for me and I'm only good at AV. Put strafe penalties on all HP mods. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2227	Posted - 2014.11.20 18:17:00 - [184] - Quote The problem is not with Cal Scouts, but rather any fast moving suit. Because Cal Scouts are the most popular, I think people misidentify this problem as one of Cal Scout hitbox rather than more broadly as fast moving suit hit detection. In short, I've found that fast moving targets hitbox seems to lag behind the visible target. Next time you see a fast moving scout, shoot just behind them and see if you don't hit them more.
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 575	Posted - 2014.11.20 18:28:00 - [185] - Quote Caldari Scout is the main problem. Even though the Minmatar Scout is faster, it has less HP. Fast/tanky/hitbox-lag trifecta...I would be willing to bet it is actually a bug with the Caldari Scout that makes it nearly unhitable. I'm all in favor of a strafe nerf, but any nerf to shields and you're going to see a shift to armor and anti-armor weapons. Extenders will be traded for damage mods, and everyone will spam explosive and projectile damage types. If shields make me slow, then I want a logibro with a remote shield restoration tool. Full parity with armor tanking ->or it is a massive Caldari nerf. There will be bullets. ACR+SMG [CEO of Terror]
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11630	Posted - 2014.11.20 18:50:00 - [186] - Quote Armor plates should have a strafe penalty. Shield extenders should have a signature profile penalty. I recall in your EWAR thread you suggested giving HP modules a dampening penalty. Neither shields nor armor should have both of these penalties. Shields and armor should have important differences that makes one preferably for one type of playstyle than others, giving them both the same penalties diminishes their differences, and thus diminishes gameplay diversity. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4986	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:00:00 - [187] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: HP modules, as in, shield extenders and armor plating? im assuming only for armor plates, as extenders dont have movement penalties extender stacking is also under the scope Can the drawback for Extenders be a larger hit box for shields? Movement penalties don't make sense for Shield Extenders, and the big problem with Caldari Scouts is how small their hit box is, so how about when you extend your shields, it makes them bigger, as in easier to hit? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 4986	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:04:00 - [188] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. Still say that making their Shield Hit Box bigger would be better as a shield extender penalty. Can you at least check to see if that is possible to do? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2242	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:21:00 - [189] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Kensai Dragon wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Ok, so this might be a stupid question but I have to ask it. Can someone please define "gungame"? I tried googling it and all I got for hits were references to a CS mod It's basically the catch-all phrase for 'I can shoot you better'. Generally applied to shooting while moving, but also to whatever aspect you're better at than the opponent. So it is something nebulous that is easily attributed to luck? Sometimes, especially if it's the other guy who got lucky, but never if you're the lucky one, lol Also sometimes used as troll bait. Like I said, it's a catch all. If I use cover more effectively and pick you off, it's gun game. If I move/strafe and kill you first, it's gun game. Anything I can do well is gun game. If you do it well, it's only gun game when I approve of the style, lol Ok so why do people feel the need to hold on so tightly to something that is totally arbitrary and subjective? I would think that solid data and fact would have more of a place here than something that amounts to "he said, she said" perception. Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 492	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:26:00 - [190] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Armor plates should have a strafe penalty. Shield extenders should have a signature profile penalty. I recall in your EWAR thread you suggested giving HP modules a dampening penalty. Neither shields nor armor should have both of these penalties. Shields and armor should have important differences that makes one preferably for one type of playstyle than others, giving them both the same penalties diminishes their differences, and thus diminishes gameplay diversity. There is but one small problem with this particular drawback. Perhaps two. There can be no question that the CalScout's hitbox is imbued with special magics. On paper, the MinScout is the superior strafer; in game, his moves cannot touch the almighty gyrations of the CalScout. The CalScout - Slap on a couple Reactives, add a Fine Rifle and become Saxonmish vs Noobs. The MinScout - Better run straight damps in your lows if you ever want to stab anything. If we add the Sig Penalty to shield extenders, which of the above will be hurt? Will it be the struggling MinScout? Or will it be the best wiggle-wiggler in the game?

thehellisgoingon the unholy legion of darkstar DARKSTAR ARMY 0	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:26:00 - [191] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP. The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all. This is quite blunt, but it's been a long time coming. Extenders and Armor Plates are obviously the focus here, and Reactives and Ferroscales may be omitted in the first pass. P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small. NERF IT ALL. the game is about to change.... i smell a new FOTM in the works. its called a tank.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 515	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:29:00 - [192] - Quote I'd like to see proposal hard numbers please, before I add my personal brand of condemnation or devotion for the idea. As an aside, on the surface I see don't blanket penalties for frames outside of scouts being needed. Just either a nerfing of scout movements or a buffing of everyone elses. Fats included. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2242	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:30:00 - [193] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: the only reason people are favoring an EWAR penalty for shields is the fact that shield suits are the easiest to abuse hit detection failures using the strafing thing. I'm sorry, but this is transparent as hell. Allow me to say: Nerf my calscout please. Seriously, the calscout is goddamn easy mode even for me and I'm only good at AV. Put strafe penalties on all HP mods. IDGAF if strafing goes the way of the dodo It still doesn't mean I don't think that Ewar/Sig Bloom is the better fix for Shield mods. Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 515	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:32:00 - [194] - Quote thehellisgoingon wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP. The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all. This is quite blunt, but it's been a long time coming. Extenders and Armor Plates are obviously the focus here, and Reactives and Ferroscales may be omitted in the first pass. P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small. NERF IT ALL. the game is about to change.... i smell a new FOTM in the works. its called a tank. My 15k AV fit awaits them. And if that one doesn't work, I'll defy my own bushido, go proto in pubs and pull my actual PC rig out. Bring. It. On. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
shaman oga The Dunwich Horror 3262	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:43:00 - [195] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. In game description isn't clear, but i still think that shield extenders take the energy they need directly from the suit power grid. What is pretty clear is that shield generates EM noise. Shields should not have strafe penalties, the trade off has always been less HP for no movement penalty. Situational awareness commonly called passive scan.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2242	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:47:00 - [196] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Armor plates should have a strafe penalty. Shield extenders should have a signature profile penalty. I recall in your EWAR thread you suggested giving HP modules a dampening penalty. Neither shields nor armor should have both of these penalties. Shields and armor should have important differences that makes one preferably for one type of playstyle than others, giving them both the same penalties diminishes their differences, and thus diminishes gameplay diversity. There is but one small problem with this particular drawback. Perhaps two. There can be no question that the CalScout's hitbox is imbued with special magics. On paper, the MinScout is the superior strafer; in game, however, his best effort at bulletweaving cannot touch the proficiency five gyrations of the CalScout. The CalScout - Slap on a couple Reactives, add a Fine Rifle and become Saxonmish vs Noobs. The MinScout - Better run straight damps in your lows if you ever want to stab anything. So if and when we add the Sig Penalty to shield extenders, which will be most affected? Will it be the struggling and perpetually squishy MinScout? Or will it be the best wiggle-wiggler Assault Lite has to offer? PS: In all seriousness, I don't know how we can fix CalScout Assault Lite without detrimentally impacting the MinScout. Very much open to ideas and suggestions. Encourage people to stop tanking their Scout in any fashion aside from Sig Tanking. Seriously, if armor mods are slowing them down for movement as well as strafe speed and shield mods make them light up like the fourth of July for everyone on the enemy team they'll shy away from fitting their Scouts like that or they'll move up to Assaults/Logis. Combine this with a leveling of the playing field for EWAR and now you have Scouts that are more easily found (unless they fit damps) or stick out like sore thumbs (if they fit shield mods). Put the scenario into the proper context and it become clear. Right now, most everyone is thinking about how this change would work with current EWAR, you need to look at it as though the new EWAR proposals are the "current" state of affairs. Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
RedPencil Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 140	Posted - 2014.11.20 20:01:00 - [197] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Extenders and Armor Plates are obviously the focus here, and Reactives and Ferroscales may be omitted in the first pass. - Com Extender + 66 HP - Com Reactives + 60 HP - Com Ferroscales + 75 HP To be fare, If you include shield extend, CCP must add penalty on Reactives and Ferroscales too. Beware Paper cut M[;..;]M
Kensai Dragon Dust University Ivy League 96	Posted - 2014.11.20 20:09:00 - [198] - Quote My vote is for increased hitbox for shields. Let the increase be 3/4.5/6%, similar to armor plates speed penalties. The effect would be marginal until you really start to brick tank shields. Five complex shields? Now you're really struggling to take cover. Along with this, shields should get a slight buff to bring them in line with ferroscale plates.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2242	Posted - 2014.11.20 20:12:00 - [199] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: My vote is for increased hitbox for shields. Let the increase be 3/4.5/6%, similar to armor plates speed penalties. The effect would be marginal until you really start to brick tank shields. Five complex shields? Now you're really struggling to take cover. Along with this, shields should get a slight buff to bring them in line with ferroscale plates. This would just encourage spray and pray play. "Haha, I don't even really need to hit you to kill you!!" Hitbox increase is a can of worms that will bite us in the ass if it is opened. Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 495	Posted - 2014.11.20 20:27:00 - [200] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Armor plates should have a strafe penalty. Shield extenders should have a signature profile penalty. I recall in your EWAR thread you suggested giving HP modules a dampening penalty. Neither shields nor armor should have both of these penalties. Shields and armor should have important differences that makes one preferably for one type of playstyle than others, giving them both the same penalties diminishes their differences, and thus diminishes gameplay diversity. There is but one small problem with this particular drawback. Perhaps two. There can be no question that the CalScout's hitbox is imbued with special magics. On paper, the MinScout is the superior strafer; in game, however, his best effort at bulletweaving cannot touch the proficiency five gyrations of the CalScout. The CalScout - Slap on a couple Reactives, add a Fine Rifle and become Saxonmish vs Noobs. The MinScout - Better run straight damps in your lows if you ever want to stab anything. So if and when we add the Sig Penalty to shield extenders, which will be most affected? Will it be the struggling and perpetually squishy MinScout? Or will it be the best wiggle-wiggler Assault Lite has to offer? PS: In all seriousness, I don't know how we can fix CalScout Assault Lite without detrimentally impacting the MinScout. Very much open to ideas and suggestions. Encourage people to stop tanking their Scout in any fashion aside from Sig Tanking. Looking around, I see 1000HP on Adv Meds, even more HP on Heavies, and don't get me started on HMG Heavy Blob nonsense. I gotta say, it doesn't look like we'll have very good odds of successful takedown running without shield buffer. But I'm all for giving it a go. If it can work, we'll make it work. But if it doesn't work, Scouts will be back here asking for sharper tools and a fair shake.

Kensai Dragon Dust University Ivy League 97	Posted - 2014.11.20 20:28:00 - [201] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Kensai Dragon wrote: My vote is for increased hitbox for shields. Let the increase be 3/4.5/6%, similar to armor plates speed penalties. The effect would be marginal until you really start to brick tank shields. Five complex shields? Now you're really struggling to take cover. Along with this, shields should get a slight buff to bring them in line with ferroscale plates. This would just encourage spray and pray play. "Haha, I don't even really need to hit you to kill you!!" Hitbox increase is a can of worms that will bite us in the ass if it is opened. Maybe. If so then I point back to inertia. That would help/solve the wiggle strafe issues and require more than just 'button smash' mentality on the joystick. If/when that ever comes to pass then all additional HP lateral speed penalties would become unnecessary.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5190	Posted - 2014.11.20 20:32:00 - [202] - Quote Inertia is theoretically on the list, just never had a dev grace the topic with a response. Not even a "we're looking at trying to do this." EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution 3482	Posted - 2014.11.20 20:48:00 - [203] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: HP modules, as in, shield extenders and armor plating? im assuming only for armor plates, as extenders dont have movement penalties extender stacking is also under the scope why? im curious. what problem do they cause? EDIT: if you were to add a penalty to extenders, the only one that makes sense coming from EVE is a penalty to scan profile. But if you do that then shield tanking would need to be looked at again. i can already think of a bunch of issues with that, especially for caldari. but that could be easily fixed with adding a bonus to regulators to offset the extender penalty. Caldari scout OPness, might someone say I wreck Cal slayers scout all day in my Min Assault! Fatal Absolution Director
XxGhazbaranxX Endless Hatred 1882	Posted - 2014.11.20 20:52:00 - [204] - Quote This is a great Idea Rattati. Keep it coming. Most of you are ideas are badass. Plasma Cannon Advocate [SUPPORT BREACH SHTGUN CHANGES][2]
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 369	Posted - 2014.11.20 20:53:00 - [205] - Quote I don't like the idea of kinkats increasing strife speed as scout hp doesn't come into play that often when I am playing or at least I don't notice it, but hit detection does it worries me that all scouts will be able to become untouchable like the ck scout often is. Could you go more into detail about the total mass penalties for heavies? On a side note can assaults get a jump buff. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 516	Posted - 2014.11.20 21:04:00 - [206] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: I don't like the idea of kinkats increasing strife speed as scout hp doesn't come into play that often when I am playing or at least I don't notice it, but hit detection does it worries me that all scouts will be able to become untouchable like the ck scout often is. Could you go more into detail about the total mass penalties for heavies? On a side note can assaults get a jump buff. +1 for lets see some numbers and buffing jumps for mediums. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
tander09 KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 186	Posted - 2014.11.20 21:08:00 - [207] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: I don't like the idea of kinkats increasing strife speed as scout hp doesn't come into play that often when I am playing or at least I don't notice it, but hit detection does it worries me that all scouts will be able to become untouchable like the ck scout often is. Could you go more into detail about the total mass penalties for heavies? On a side note can assaults get a jump buff. +1 for lets see some numbers and buffing jumps for mediums. we assaults are not hoovies! "The feud shall not be forgotten. But those who forget, never witnessed the true horror." -Nexle Skimfuse
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2244	Posted - 2014.11.20 21:29:00 - [208] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Encourage people to stop tanking their Scout in any fashion aside from Sig Tanking. Looking around, I see 1000HP on Adv Meds and even more on Heavies. Don't get me started on the Heavy+Logi Blob nonsense. I'm all for these changes, but I gotta say, I don't think MinScouts (or any other) will have very good odds if forced to run without shield buffer. Can't shoot what you can't see. Which brings me back to Sig Tanking. Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5191	Posted - 2014.11.20 21:37:00 - [209] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: HP modules, as in, shield extenders and armor plating? im assuming only for armor plates, as extenders dont have movement penalties extender stacking is also under the scope Can the drawback for Extenders be a larger hit box for shields? Movement penalties don't make sense for Shield Extenders, and the big problem with Caldari Scouts is how small their hit box is, so how about when you extend your shields, it makes them bigger, as in easier to hit? No. The drawback cannot be a bigger hitbox EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution 3482	Posted - 2014.11.20 21:43:00 - [210] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Wiggling the stick... so accurate. Strafe dodging is the equivalent of playing mortal kombat and claiming that button mashing to victory requires skill. Do you even counter strafe brah. Fatal Absolution Director

Kensai Dragon Dust University Ivy League 97	Posted - 2014.11.20 21:50:00 - [211] - Quote Sig profile, as in increased scan profile, doesn't seem to address the broken strafe mechanic. Breakin's statement regarding hitbox being static makes sense, so what else is left? Enlarged hitbox, inertia, and speed penalties are all that I see. If CCP goes forward with strafe penalties for shields, I could only hope that they are proportional to armor penalties. Armor should still have a higher penalty simply because it gives greater hp / slot. Ferros and reactives should not be immune, but should also be less penalized proportional to the hp given. Lore answer: mass, flux, whatever you like, it's Sci Fi
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 252	Posted - 2014.11.20 21:57:00 - [212] - Quote I never thought in the future we would be back to civil war, stand still, shoot reload, die. While enemy does the same. Strafe on KB is a problem, not on controller, now just more heavies will be beam of death. Can't escape or use skill to dodge, this game is turning into hard counter, slowly draining of player skill. What next? 1 shot pistol? Nvm bolt pistol... Autoaim gun? Nvm breach ar... What am I saying, let's make dust easy for the stupid NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 476	Posted - 2014.11.20 21:59:00 - [213] - Quote YES! YES! YES! (Daniel bryant voice) "Anybody order chaos?"
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 476	Posted - 2014.11.20 22:02:00 - [214] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Inertia is theoretically on the list, just never had a dev grace the topic with a response. Not even a "we're looking at trying to do this." Exactly! "Anybody order chaos?"
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 805	Posted - 2014.11.20 22:16:00 - [215] - Quote FPSes are based on shooting and moving. We have Aim Assist to take care of the shooting. Now we're going to nerf strafing to take care of that pesky "moving" business. Wow. If you can't aim, and you can't hit a moving target, you're probably playing the wrong genre.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 1301	Posted - 2014.11.20 22:39:00 - [216] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: HP modules, as in, shield extenders and armor plating? im assuming only for armor plates, as extenders dont have movement penalties extender stacking is also under the scope I might oppose that except the Caldari, particularly the scout, seem to benefit the most from these strafing mechanics. Because, that's why.
Kensai Dragon Dust University Ivy League 97	Posted - 2014.11.20 22:41:00 - [217] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: FPSes are based on shooting and moving. We have Aim Assist to take care of the shooting. Now we're going to nerf strafing to take care of that pesky "moving" business. Wow. If you can't aim, and you can't hit a moving target, you're probably playing the wrong genre. Wow. So when I clearly see that I'm passing through your stream of fire and not taking damage then I should call that my skillful strafing. If you intentionally maneuver such that my aim is off (juking in American Football), good for you because that is a talent. When your maneuvering consists of exploiting a broken mechanic that fails to register damage, that's hardly in the same league.
Kensai Dragon Dust University Ivy League 98	Posted - 2014.11.20 23:00:00 - [218] - Quote You know, it's not really like Rattati to make announcements without numbers. I wonder if he's just trolling us to see what kind of sh*t-storm he can stir up, lol Throw out an obviously controversial topic and let us run with the bait...
hfderrtgvcd 1224	Posted - 2014.11.20 23:02:00 - [219] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: You know, it's not really like Rattati to make announcements without numbers. I wonder if he's just trolling us to see what kind of sh*t-storm he can stir up, lol Throw out an obviously controversial topic and let us run with the bait... This is more of feedback thread than an announcement You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 697	Posted - 2014.11.20 23:15:00 - [220] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: This is a bad idea. The only reason shield tanking is viable is because they have higher strafe speeds than armor tanked suits. Armor plates already have a more than sufficient strafe penalty. I'd recommend just reducing heavies and scouts base strafe speeds and not touching any other stats. Better. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower Trust CROSS

Jebus McKing Jebus Hates Scans 1030	Posted - 2014.11.20 23:22:00 - [221] - Quote Scouts wiggle strafing is not the problem, poor hit detection is! Fix hit detection! Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 806	Posted - 2014.11.20 23:28:00 - [222] - Quote Kensai Dragon wrote: KA24DERT wrote: FPSes are based on shooting and moving. We have Aim Assist to take care of the shooting. Now we're going to nerf strafing to take care of that pesky "moving" business. Wow. If you can't aim, and you can't hit a moving target, you're probably playing the wrong genre. Wow. So when I clearly see that I'm passing through your stream of fire and not taking damage then I should call that my skillful strafing. If you intentionally maneuver such that my aim is off (juking in American Football), good for you because that is a talent. When your maneuvering consists of exploiting a broken mechanic that fails to register damage, that's hardly in the same league. If you want hit detection fixed, lobby for that. But nerfing movement in an already sluggish game is the wrong fix.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 697	Posted - 2014.11.20 23:28:00 - [223] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: Ok, so I've been reading through all the arguments for this thread and I've come to the conclusion that CCP's original idea for fixing strafing will not work unless something is also done about shield penalties... Meaning the following: !) For BOTH armor plates and shields extenders, they should be changed to a percentage system so that they become more tailored to the dropsuit they are being fitted on. This way "brick tanking" things that should be releatively lower EHP will not happen. 2) Imposing a movement penalty (ie. speed/strafe/mass) is good for armor plates and makes sense, however it does NOT make sense for shields. 3) For shield extenders, there should be one or possibly two drawbacks (and NOT have the recharge delay as one of them)... First they should affect the signature of the dropsuit so that they are almost one class size larger for detection purposes (light goes to medium, medium to heavy, heavy to LAV, LAV to HAV, HAV... welll no one hides those). Second it should increase the HITBOX of the dropsuit such that they are easier to HIT by players. These two changes would effectively mimic the drawback of shield extenders in EVE for spaceships. In EVE, adding armor plates adds mass, greater mass reduces top speed, acceration, and agility (turning/alignment time). In EVE, adding shield extenders makes the ship's signature radius bloom to a larger size and thus guns that would normally not be able to track and hit the smaller ships are subsequently able to do so. This sort of change would be a BETTER and more comprehensive FIX for the situation that has caused this line of discussion. I like this idea too. This discussion is becoming very interesting in its suggestions. This is why i love the forums, so many minds attacking an issue from all different experiences and opinions. Right now I am on board with a strafe speed adjustment and the armor and shield stuff mentioned above. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower Trust CROSS
Jebus McKing Jebus Hates Scans 1031	Posted - 2014.11.20 23:59:00 - [224] - Quote Signature penalty for shield extenders: Noone except scouts would even care because noone but scouts care for EWAR apparently. And this would hit the min scout even harder than the cal scout. Bad proposal. Hitbox size increase penalty for shield extenders: This would either be hardly noticeable or cause massive problems like getting hit even while behind cover etc. Bad proposal. Strafe speed penalty: Poor attempt at ending scout and heavy dominance. More mobility penalties make the game increasingly annoying to play. Have the potential to kill scout class while at the same time having no effect on heavies. Problem with hitting scouts is a hit detection problem, not a strafe speed problem. Bad proposal. What could be done instead: - Finally make scout bonus affect module efficacy instead of base stats. Tanked scouts will have awful EWAR abilities, easy to detect, bad scans. - Buff assaults profile by 5db to give them the chance to hide from scouts with poor EWAR. - Heavy dominance could be reduced by changing other parameters like base HP, HMG DPS, HMG range, rep-tool rep rate, etc. - HP module stacking could be solved by making other modules more effective and actually worth the risk. Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 520	Posted - 2014.11.21 00:07:00 - [225] - Quote RedBleach LeSanglant wrote: Jadd Hatchen wrote: Ok, so I've been reading through all the arguments for this thread and I've come to the conclusion that CCP's original idea for fixing strafing will not work unless something is also done about shield penalties... Meaning the following: !) For BOTH armor plates and shields extenders, they should be changed to a percentage system so that they become more tailored to the dropsuit they are being fitted on. This way "brick tanking" things that should be releatively lower EHP will not happen. 2) Imposing a movement penalty (ie. speed/strafe/mass) is good for armor plates and makes sense, however it does NOT make sense for shields. 3) For shield extenders, there should be one or possibly two drawbacks (and NOT have the recharge delay as one of them)... First they should affect the signature of the dropsuit so that they are almost one class size larger for detection purposes (light goes to medium, medium to heavy, heavy to LAV, LAV to HAV, HAV... welll no one hides those). Second it should increase the HITBOX of the dropsuit such that they are easier to HIT by players. These two changes would effectively mimic the drawback of shield extenders in EVE for spaceships. In EVE, adding armor plates adds mass, greater mass reduces top speed, acceration, and agility (turning/alignment time). In EVE, adding shield extenders makes the ship's signature radius bloom to a larger size and thus guns that would normally not be able to track and hit the smaller ships are subsequently able to do so. This sort of change would be a BETTER and more comprehensive FIX for the situation that has caused this line of discussion. I like this idea too. This discussion is becoming very interesting in its suggestions. This is why i love the forums, so many minds attacking an issue from all different experiences and opinions. Right now I am on board with a strafe speed adjustment and the armor and shield stuff mentioned above. HP modules being percentage based instead of flat amounts is an old, good idea (I first saw it from Atiim I think right after 1.8 dropped) that is exactly the kind of good, workable solution which just gets lost in the forum ether of qq/nerf/buff/intentional misinformation. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
RedBleach LeSanglant Hellstorm Inc General Tso's Alliance 697	Posted - 2014.11.21 00:19:00 - [226] - Quote Yeah, it just never got enough traction on its own. The Logi Code. Creator, Believer, Follower Trust CROSS
Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet 221	Posted - 2014.11.21 00:28:00 - [227] - Quote Back in 1.2 or whatever when strafing (and backpedaling, backpedaling is just as bad) was significantly slower than 90% of movement speed, Dust was a flat out better game because of it. Reducing everyone's strafe speed isn't some horrific response that punishes everyone, Dust players dealt with it before at a time when Dust was more successful - at the time the increased strafe speed was an accident, which was kept on for god knows what reason. It wasn't even a solution to problems the game had at the time.
JIAF-PR 116	Posted - 2014.11.21 00:49:00 - [228] - Quote I like this idea: Shield extender with a profile penalty (comparable with the benefit of a dampener) Armor plate with all move penalty (increase in strafe penalty) "Los grandes no son grandes sino porque estamos de rodillas. Levantémonos" GÇô Pedro Albizu Campos
Luk Manag of Terror TRE GAFFEL 579	Posted - 2014.11.21 00:52:00 - [229] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: HP modules, as in, shield extenders and armor plating? im assuming only for armor plates, as extenders dont have movement penalties extender stacking is also under the scope Can the drawback for Extenders be a larger hit box for shields? Movement penalties don't make sense for Shield Extenders, and the big problem with Caldari Scouts is how small their hit box is, so how about when you extend your shields, it makes them bigger, as in easier to hit? No. The drawback cannot be a bigger hitbox That conclusion is hardly the final word. There are always workarounds. For example, you could map one of the existing models over the scout. A scout with a transparent heavy alligned/centered on his head. Quick and dirty. If a programmer tells you something is impossible you just haven't incentivized him properly. There will be bullets. ACR+SMG [CEO of Terror]
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7284	Posted - 2014.11.21 00:58:00 - [230] - Quote There's something amusing about this. The current strafe speeds are due to a bug that happened way back, everyone loved it because you could dodge bullets (abuse faults in hit detection, let's be real, no-one is dodging bullets), and anyone who disagreed (including myself) was shunned. More than a year later, people are now rejoicing at the proposal to add strafe speed reduction to extenders/plates. The hilarity of this is just too much for me This is one of those times where you can put a timeline on the table of what the community has wanted/asked for and literally match up a contradiction. Further giving proof to the fact that the community of Dust 514 -truly does not know what it wants-. Anyway, personal amusement aside, throwing in another proposal: HP modules reduce turn speed. There. I said it. Been wanting it for a long time and it's a shot in the dark that might get turned down unanimously but, I said it. Long-Term Roadmap This Player is Against Proto BPOs

Thor Odinson42 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 5307	Posted - 2014.11.21 03:03:00 - [231] - Quote Killer's Coys wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: This is a bad idea. The only reason shield tanking is viable is because they have higher strafe speeds than armor tanked suits. Armor plates already have a more than sufficient strafe penalty. I'd recommend just reducing heavies and scouts base strafe speeds and not touching any other stats. I'm not the only one, thank you bro +1 I'm having a hard time not getting angry. Might as well just remove shields and armor and have a single HP mod. Remove highs and lows as well. I wish my avatar was Minmatar.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 691	Posted - 2014.11.21 03:12:00 - [232] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: The only reason cal scouts seem overpowered is because of hit box issues. There's no need to destroy an entire tanking style because one suit has a broken hit box. how long have we been telling CCP the scout hit boxes are stupid? how long have they said basically that theyre are working as intended? now they say the same exact scout we have been complaining about for months is suddenly OP, but not because of the hit box, its because shield extenders are OP? GTFO
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 505	Posted - 2014.11.21 03:15:00 - [233] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: The only reason cal scouts seem overpowered is because of hit box issues. There's no need to destroy an entire tanking style because one suit has a broken hit box. how long have we been telling CCP the scout hit boxes are stupid? how long have they said basically that theyre are working as intended? The CalScout hitbox isn't stupid or broken. It is magical.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 691	Posted - 2014.11.21 03:17:00 - [234] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: The only reason cal scouts seem overpowered is because of hit box issues. There's no need to destroy an entire tanking style because one suit has a broken hit box. how long have we been telling CCP the scout hit boxes are stupid? how long have they said basically that theyre are working as intended? The CalScout hitbox isn't stupid or broken. It is magical. i dont believe in such magics lol
Aeon Amadi Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 7290	Posted - 2014.11.21 03:20:00 - [235] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: The only reason cal scouts seem overpowered is because of hit box issues. There's no need to destroy an entire tanking style because one suit has a broken hit box. how long have we been telling CCP the scout hit boxes are stupid? how long have they said basically that theyre are working as intended? now they say the same exact scout we have been complaining about for months is suddenly OP, but not because of the hit box, its because shield extenders are OP? GTFO Kind of a stretch. It's quite clear, to me, that Rattati is trying to combat EHP tanking as a whole by adding more penalties to Armor Plates and Shield Extenders by way of reducing strafe speed. The logic, toward extenders specifically, is that the module itself has weight, not necessarily the shield. Thereby, he's not saying shield extenders are OP at all and even if he were he's hinting at a counter-balance through Myrofibrals/Kinetic Catalyzers increasing strafe speed, as stated in an earlier post. The premise there is that he's trying to increase the benefits of utility while further discouraging simply stacking HP modules on everything. Is it the correct way to do it? That's up for debate. But he never once said that "Caldari Scouts are over-powered because of shield extenders". If anything, this change is more focused toward Sentinel's who arguably have no other reason to use any other module -BESIDES- HP tanking modules. It's a sound idea. Sentinel wants to stack plates/extenders, he's going to lose mobility, which makes him more vulnerable. Something I'm not entirely against because Sentinel's shouldn't be about mobility anyway. Scouts would be affected as well, which is good, because there's a lot of scouts out there (not just Caldari) that just brick tank and become a faster Assault. The worst that can happen is we try it, no-one likes it, and we revert back to the old ways. Honestly, I -liked- the way the strafe speeds were BEFORE the strafe speed increase bug back in 1.5 (I think) so I'm all for it. Long-Term Roadmap This Player is Against Proto BPOs
Funkmaster Whale Whale Pod 2505	Posted - 2014.11.21 03:45:00 - [236] - Quote Rattati all the ideas you've had so far have been pretty on point, but I really think messing with the already severely clunky movement DUST 514 has is going to only make things worse for everyone. Back when we had the super fast strafe speed this game was A LOT more fun and intense because everything felt a lot more fast paced. It was not balanced, and we sulked but adjusted to it. I know you want to bring balance to Scouts and you're desperately looking at all these things Scouts are good at and just looking to tune all of them back one by one until your stats start to say that Scouts are killing and dying just as much as any other suit, but I really think you're not searching in the right places. If you mess with something as integral as "strafe speed" in a first person shooter you go down that route of just making the game more and more clunky. The movement in this game already suffers from getting caught on corners, hills, random geometry, and just overall feeling really floaty. Rattati, Scouts became broken in 1.8 because (a) active scanner nerf (b) Scout EWAR buff. You've already solved the problem of bringing balance to Scouts amongst eachother but the problem remains of EWAR being too powerful and exclusive to them. Now, the reason it is overpowered is because this game will put a red chevron above everyone's head who's around you if your scanners pick them up. You are given the EXACT location of an enemy as a Scout. This simple piece of information completely changes the encounter and is what makes playing a Scout incredibly easy. If you were to do one thing to balance Scouts and EWAR altogether would be to remove the chevrons that appear on your screen. Make passive scanning exclusive to your radar (that thing in the top left of the screen). Scouts would then still have the EWAR advantage because they would know ahead that there are enemies nearby because their suit picks up a signature, but their exact location would still require the Scout to get visual contact and thus exposing himself. Right now that's the problem. I can play a Caldari Scout and I never have to make myself vulnerable because the game tells me exactly where I need to be to not be in line of sight. I can dance around a pole with a Heavy and have him never see me because the game tells me he's behind it. This game would benefit tremendously from this one simple change to passive scans, and I guarantee you'd see a sharp drop in the number of Scouts you see dominating games. Follow me on Twitch.tv!
D3LTA Blitzkrieg II 0uter.Heaven 130	Posted - 2014.11.21 04:07:00 - [237] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: Rattati all the ideas you've had so far have been pretty on point, but I really think messing with the already severely clunky movement DUST 514 has is going to only make things worse for everyone. Back when we had the super fast strafe speed this game was A LOT more fun and intense because everything felt a lot more fast paced. It was not balanced, and we sulked but adjusted to it. I know you want to bring balance to Scouts and you're desperately looking at all these things Scouts are good at and just looking to tune all of them back one by one until your stats start to say that Scouts are killing and dying just as much as any other suit, but I really think you're not searching in the right places. If you mess with something as integral as "strafe speed" in a first person shooter you go down that route of just making the game more and more clunky. The movement in this game already suffers from getting caught on corners, hills, random geometry, and just overall feeling really floaty. Rattati, Scouts became broken in 1.8 because (a) active scanner nerf (b) Scout EWAR buff. You've already solved the problem of bringing balance to Scouts amongst eachother but the problem remains of EWAR being too powerful and exclusive to them. Now, the reason it is overpowered is because this game will put a red chevron above everyone's head who's around you if your scanners pick them up. You are given the EXACT location of an enemy as a Scout. This simple piece of information completely changes the encounter and is what makes playing a Scout incredibly powerful in this game. If you were to do one thing to balance Scouts and EWAR altogether would be to remove the chevrons that appear on your screen. Make passive scanning exclusive to your radar (that thing in the top left of the screen). Scouts would then still have the EWAR advantage because they would know ahead that there are enemies nearby because their suit picks up a signature, but their exact location would still require the Scout to get visual contact and thus exposing himself. Right now that's the problem. I can play a Caldari Scout and I never have to make myself vulnerable because the game tells me exactly where I need to be to not be in line of sight. I can dance around a pole with a Heavy and have him never see me because the game tells me exactly where he is behind it. Preemptively knowing exactly where to shoot and always getting the first shot is the problem with Scouts. I don't know how else to stress this, but it's desperately what needs to be addressed. This game would benefit tremendously from this one simple change to passive scans, and I guarantee you'd see a sharp drop in the number of Scouts you see dominating games. Please don't mess with movement speed, especially if it's reducing it. EWAR is the major problem, not ability to strafe. I can agree with that. But.... How exactly EWAR should be handled.....well that is a different topic all together.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2334	Posted - 2014.11.21 04:22:00 - [238] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: Rattati all the ideas you've had so far have been pretty on point, but I really think messing with the already severely clunky movement DUST 514 has is going to only make things worse for everyone. Back when we had the super fast strafe speed this game was A LOT more fun and intense because everything felt a lot more fast paced. It was not balanced, and we sulked but adjusted to it. I know you want to bring balance to Scouts and you're desperately looking at all these things Scouts are good at and just looking to tune all of them back one by one until your stats start to say that Scouts are killing and dying just as much as any other suit, but I really think you're not searching in the right places. If you mess with something as integral as "strafe speed" in a first person shooter you go down that route of just making the game more and more clunky. The movement in this game already suffers from getting caught on corners, hills, random geometry, and just overall feeling really floaty. Rattati, Scouts became broken in 1.8 because (a) active scanner nerf (b) Scout EWAR buff. You've already solved the problem of bringing balance to Scouts amongst eachother but the problem remains of EWAR being too powerful and exclusive to them. Now, the reason it is overpowered is because this game will put a red chevron above everyone's head who's around you if your scanners pick them up. You are given the EXACT location of an enemy as a Scout. This simple piece of information completely changes the encounter and is what makes playing a Scout incredibly powerful in this game. If you were to do one thing to balance Scouts and EWAR altogether would be to remove the chevrons that appear on your screen. Make passive scanning exclusive to your radar (that thing in the top left of the screen). Scouts would then still have the EWAR advantage because they would know ahead that there are enemies nearby because their suit picks up a signature, but their exact location would still require the Scout to get visual contact and thus exposing himself. Right now that's the problem. I can play a Caldari Scout and I never have to make myself vulnerable because the game tells me exactly where I need to be to not be in line of sight. I can dance around a pole with a Heavy and have him never see me because the game tells me exactly where he is behind it. Preemptively knowing exactly where to shoot and always getting the first shot is the problem with Scouts. I don't know how else to stress this, but it's desperately what needs to be addressed. This game would benefit tremendously from this one simple change to passive scans, and I guarantee you'd see a sharp drop in the number of Scouts you see dominating games. Please don't mess with movement speed, especially if it's reducing it. Well said and i agree completely. The innate ability of scouts to see whats coming and exactly where it is while simultaneously staying off the tacnet accounts for the bulk of their performance advantage, imo. PSN: RationalSpark
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2244	Posted - 2014.11.21 05:11:00 - [239] - Quote I agree with you both.
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 50	Posted - 2014.11.21 05:12:00 - [240] - Quote Go big on this one, cut it 15% across the board, then your per class adjustments, and don't put myfibs out as a cover until you look at it from 35,000 feet. Go big in order to protect DUST! good luck

IZI doro Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 11	Posted - 2014.11.21 05:14:00 - [241] - Quote Would it be acceptable to increase movement dispersion so as to make it garbage to "run-n-gun" with a light weapon? It would obviously force more shotgun, mass driver and sidearm play, or at least make us go into ADS more often to achieve any accuracy. Instead of two-stepping while laying on the trigger, make us actually line up shots and shoot in a controlled manner. I know our dropsuits have fire-assistance protocols, but that should only do so much when firing from the hip. Every battle is a battle of attrition for me. 100hp in 5 seconds helps though
jace silencerww D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 95	Posted - 2014.11.21 05:57:00 - [242] - Quote ok I do not like this at all to shields. armor getting movement sure... however shields should make your scan profile go up. that is the point of shields to keep your speed while giving you half the ehp of armor. ferroscales should be the same as shields in this case no speed penalty but again scan profile go up.. it is bad enough I fall 4-5 meters as my scouts and it takes all my shields (200-350) and half my armor (87). yet fall off the same foof as my heavy and take maybe 10-20 shields lol. now my scout being able to run and jump around so I can getaway is being nerfed?! thanks a get idea CCP. this well hurt the Minnie & caldari assault more than the scouts you want to nerf some.
David Spd Caldari State 171	Posted - 2014.11.21 07:40:00 - [243] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: HP modules, as in, shield extenders and armor plating? im assuming only for armor plates, as extenders dont have movement penalties extender stacking is also under the scope why? im curious. what problem do they cause? EDIT: if you were to add a penalty to extenders, the only one that makes sense coming from EVE is a penalty to scan profile. But if you do that then shield tanking would need to be looked at again. i can already think of a bunch of issues with that, especially for caldari. but that could be easily fixed with adding a bonus to regulators to offset the extender penalty. Caldari scout OPness, might someone say There has got to be a better way to go about it than reducing movespeed for shields. It makes no sense logically. Look at touching Scouts instead of blanket nerfing Shields. In my experience armor tends to win in most direct trades. Hit & run style play is fun, but shields are very risky to focus your build on. Further penalizing us with movement speed nerfs is just... uncalled for, in my opinion. The only things I could think of that wouldn't be horrible would be to make shields increase your scan profile when they're recharging and potentially making it so that if your shields are hit while recharging they take more damage. Gives Caldari incentive to make use of rechargers & regulators more, something that is integral to Caldari builds. It also punishes people for relying on insanely high shields with nothing to back it up. Sure, you can have nothing but extenders but if those shields go down then you'll want to back off for the full duration of the recharge before you're well & truly safe again. --> I'm a closed beta vet; I just don't post often <-- "Other people just complicate my life." ~Solid Snake
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 50	Posted - 2014.11.21 08:29:00 - [244] - Quote Electromagnetic waves are how metal detectors work. The active scanner would work like a anti-sub detection array detecting by looking for disturbances in natural magnetic fields. By definition metal and high PG suits would glow. High shields would be electronically noisey. Getting the science right is important.
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 429	Posted - 2014.11.21 08:29:00 - [245] - Quote To add coment about adding Inertia We already have it in Dust, specifically in terms of vehicles and madrugars especially. Dusted it off my maddy last night, and no, you cant just move forwards and backwards. I don't know if its actually inerita being applied or a massive acceleration and decelleration penalty, but i think it demonstrates we can do a similar thing with dropsuits. I don't want it applied to hp modules at all, but to all suit base stats. We want to end dumb strrafing completley, and not just enabling strafing for some suits and crippling others who might not be reliant on strafing. I strongly disagree with my fellow commentators on increasing the hit box for shields. Making the shield tanking suits that have lower ehp easier to hit with AA, is vastly unbalanced. Also the caldari heavy already has a large hitbox, and you wnt it to become the easiest target? Also, simply reducing left - right movement is not enough. Left - right movement was nerfed to hell in 1.4, and people adjusted by combining forward - backwards high speed movement with left-right, producing the strafing circle. To the strafers, keeping aim on the target isnt a skill because you hipfire when you circle strafe and use guns with the strongest aim asist.Throw on a modded controller which this community is famous for, you have a perfect storm of unresolvd issues. To those who cry foul about dual tanking, the minmatar suits postively rely on dual tanking. Why make them choose between being the worst armor suit or the worst shield sut? Dual tanking is frankly a non issue. You give up damage, reps, mobility or ewar depending on the suit. So what? Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
iKILLu osborne Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 481	Posted - 2014.11.21 08:41:00 - [246] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP. The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all. This is quite blunt, but it's been a long time coming. Extenders and Armor Plates are obviously the focus here, and Reactives and Ferroscales may be omitted in the first pass. P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small. and ewar shotty scouts rejoiced!! lp cal scout i demand it z platoon, cfw channel
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1259	Posted - 2014.11.21 08:47:00 - [247] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Gonna say it again. 1. Double the penalties for stacking health on light frames. 2. Change shield extender penalty to a scan profile penalty. 3. Add in a "ferroscale" shield extender with less HP but no profile penalty for CalScouts. this is the best one ive seen so far. apart from my own of just reactives and plates. shields should have no penalty to motion ever. otherwise this isnt new eden anymore. overall its a bad enough idea already. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Jebus McKing Jebus Hates Scans 1035	Posted - 2014.11.21 09:05:00 - [248] - Quote It seems to me the strafe speed penalty is trying to fix 4 things at the same time. Heavy dominance. Scout dominance. HP stacking dominance. Bandaid for poor hit detection. I think it won't be that easy, Rattati. Please scrap this idea and come up with individual and more effective fixes. And guys, stop demanding a profile penalty for shield extenders if you yourself don't even care about EWAR. EWAR is complex enough already even without more modules messing with it. Also, HP stacking suits would not care about this penalty anyway. Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1259	Posted - 2014.11.21 09:19:00 - [249] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: It seems to me the strafe speed penalty is trying to fix 4 things at the same time. Heavy dominance. Scout dominance. HP stacking dominance. Bandaid for poor hit detection. I think it won't be that easy, Rattati. Please scrap this idea and come up with individual and more effective fixes. And guys, stop demanding a profile penalty for shield extenders if you yourself don't even care about EWAR. EWAR is complex enough already even without more modules messing with it. Also, HP stacking suits would not care about this penalty anyway. if hes going to add a penalty to shields. it has to sig radius. thats literally the only option in new eden for it to be. if he wants to bring ccp iceland into this and make a neweden wide change thatd be fine. when a shield extender adds a movement penalty on drakes and ravens and such and eve online players are okay with it and ccp iceland has it balance. we can add it here. otherwise no. shield extenders do not have a movement penalty in new eden. i havent seen anyone demanding profile penalties on the extender. its just the only alternative. he cant put a movement penalty on the shield extender or ferroscale because thats not how it is in eve. theres too much with the game thats not correct new eden wise as is. we cant afford to start straying from the path again like they did with logis and tanking as they already have. im not demanding a profile penalty on shield extenders. but if theres going to be a penalty added. it HAS to be profile or whatever else could be considered sig radius. not movement or strafing. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1259	Posted - 2014.11.21 09:24:00 - [250] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. if they added mass here they would need to add mass in eve also. Tthis is the same game in the same universe. the only two acceptable mods to affect strafe are plates, and reactives since they already affect movement as they do in eve. well reactives dont since they dont exist in eve because of the passive rep stuff but thats for armor reworking as a whole and thats not the topic really so we dont need to worry about that now. these are the shield extenders of eve. i dont see any that add any form of mass or movement penalty to the ships. so why should they here in dust? since dust is eve on the ground? here are the ferroscales. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Item_Database:Ship_Equipment:Hull_&_Armor_:Layered_Plating again no penalties. also what happens for the minmatar who are supposed to dual tank? extremely slowing? theyre are supposed to be the fastest ships. why cant we just introduce light armor and light shield extenders like eve has for frigates and use them for light suits. medium applys now as medium. and then give large extenders and plates and like to heavys. thats a lore appropriate way that stops non minmatar brick tanks and light suits from being to good. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.

Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 2038	Posted - 2014.11.21 09:32:00 - [251] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP. The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all. This is quite blunt, but it's been a long time coming. Extenders and Armor Plates are obviously the focus here, and Reactives and Ferroscales may be omitted in the first pass. P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small. do you even play eve? useing shield extenders makes you easier to hit.. so insted of speed nerfs just a x% increase to hitbox per modual fitted.. and make it only for scouts as commando/sentinel are already HUGE.. and mediums are in a good place. this is the 2nd obsurd idea of yours, first being that of the bandwidth.. in regard to bandwidth i would leave that on the back burner till we have played around with the NEW ORBITALS and seen how they effect the matches and areas of equipment over saturation.. which wont be a problem and may be useful in conjunction with the 150m range active scanner+ECM orbitals.. CHANGE TOO MUCH TOO SOON AND YOU KILL THE GAME take a leaf out of the eve devs book and just do smaller changes see how community reacts, and THEN move to next phase IF its still needed. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 2 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1259	Posted - 2014.11.21 09:33:00 - [252] - Quote IZI doro wrote: Would it be acceptable to increase movement dispersion so as to make it garbage to "run-n-gun" with a light weapon? It would obviously force more shotgun, mass driver and sidearm play, or at least make us go into ADS more often to achieve any accuracy. Instead of two-stepping while laying on the trigger, make us actually line up shots and shoot in a controlled manner. I know our dropsuits have fire-assistance protocols, but that should only do so much when firing from the hip. i strafe while im ads. would that be affected? Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1259	Posted - 2014.11.21 09:37:00 - [253] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP. The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all. This is quite blunt, but it's been a long time coming. Extenders and Armor Plates are obviously the focus here, and Reactives and Ferroscales may be omitted in the first pass. P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small. do you even play eve? useing shield extenders makes you easier to hit.. so insted of speed nerfs just a x% increase to hitbox per modual fitted.. and make it only for scouts as commando/sentinel are already HUGE.. and mediums are in a good place. this is the 2nd obsurd idea of yours, first being that of the bandwidth.. in regard to bandwidth i would leave that on the back burner till we have played around with the NEW ORBITALS and seen how they effect the matches and areas of equipment over saturation.. which wont be a problem and may be useful in conjunction with the 150m range active scanner+ECM orbitals.. CHANGE TOO MUCH TOO SOON AND YOU KILL THE GAME take a leaf out of the eve devs book and just do smaller changes see how community reacts, and THEN move to next phase IF its still needed. we need to pitch in and buy them a few plexes and teach them how to play or get some ccp iceland people in here. if they did play eve we wouldnt be having this discussion right now. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
NIETZCHES OVERMAN Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 117	Posted - 2014.11.21 09:43:00 - [254] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. My question would be, "do you even strafe bro?"; seriously man. You do realize that the shield recharge delay penalty for stacking extenders was introduced to deal with this issue, right? How will that fact be dealt with? Also what data suggests this extra penalty is needed? Also currently armor tankers can duck their penalty by using ferroscale as I often do, will their be an equivalent for shields? Consider please that good strafe is part of the game and you should view it as a defensive skill you learn with your left thumb while shooting is an offensive skill you learn with your right. If you are looking for way to further penalise dual tanking my next question would be why? Let it go. Why do you find it necessary to influence our builds. Everyone has the same choices, why care if someone sacrifices speed or regen for hp, which they do. Personally I dont see why you dont go in the opposite direction and remove both shield and armor stacking penalties we have currently and leave it alone. The real question we need to know is are you trying to punish dual tanking or strafe???? If its dual tanking then find another way if you must have a say in our builds, if its strafe then you are just messing up one of the good parts. Dual tanking is bad is Eve lore fan boy nonsense, its irrelevant to your current customer base.
Jebus McKing Jebus Hates Scans 1036	Posted - 2014.11.21 09:47:00 - [255] - Quote The EVE analogy is BS. The only choice we have is passive tanking because if you try to active shield tank a suit in DUST you are DEAD. Same for active armor tanking. Also there are no resistence modules or anything like that. I'm not an EVE player but I damn sure know that in EVE your tanking is not limited to either stack a ** ton of shield or stack a ** ton of armor. Sure you can go ahead and make extenders give me a larger hitbox, if you give me a module that reduces my shield recharge delay to 0, I'd be ok with that. Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1259	Posted - 2014.11.21 09:49:00 - [256] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: The EVE analogy is BS. The only choice we have is passive tanking because if you try to active shield tank a suit in DUST you are DEAD. Same for active armor tanking. Also there are no resistence modules or anything like that. I'm not an EVE player but I damn sure know that in EVE your tanking is not limited to either stack a ** ton of shield or stack a ton of armor. Sure you can go ahead and make extenders give me a larger hitbox, if you give me a module that reduces my shield recharge delay to 0, I'd be ok with that. thats something weve been trying to change for a long time. this is eve online with a bunch of broken missing mechanics. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else**.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1259	Posted - 2014.11.21 09:54:00 - [257] - Quote NIETZCHES OVERMAN wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. My question would be, "do you even strafe bro?"; seriously man. You do realize that the shield recharge delay penalty for stacking extenders was introduced to deal with this issue, right? How will that fact be dealt with? Also what data suggests this extra penalty is needed? Also currently armor tankers can duck their penalty by using ferroscale as I often do, will their be an equivalent for shields? Consider please that good strafe is part of the game and you should view it as a defensive skill you learn with your left thumb while shooting is an offensive skill you learn with your right. If you are looking for way to further penalise dual tanking my next question would be why? Let it go. Why do you find it necessary to influence our builds. Everyone has the same choices, why care if someone sacrifices speed or regen for hp, which they do. Personally I dont see why you dont go in the opposite direction and remove both shield and armor stacking penalties we have currently and leave it alone. The real question we need to know is are you trying to punish dual tanking or strafe???? If its dual tanking then find another way if you must have a say in our builds, if its strafe then you are just messing up one of the good parts. Dual tanking is bad is Eve lore fan boy nonsense, its irrelevant to your current customer base. dual tankings only bad if your not using a minmatar suit. it only exists because the rest of the tanking styles from the other races are partially missing, mods are missing and mods are in the wrong slots. example: if kincats and card regs were in the high slots (where they belong) you wouldnt see gal suits or amarr suits with shields an and no because most people came to this game because they played eve. whether they stayed or not after playing it is another thing entirely. its absolutely relevant. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2258	Posted - 2014.11.21 13:28:00 - [258] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: dual tankings only bad if your not using a minmatar suit. it only exists because the rest of the tanking styles from the other races are partially missing, mods are missing and mods are in the wrong slots. example: if kincats and card regs were in the high slots (where they belong) you wouldnt see gal suits or amarr suits with shields and no because most people who initially bought into this game were people who played eve and knew about this games existence years before it even came out. its absolutely relevant. im also defending strafing in this thread. because the idea hes proposing as a nerf to shields and some of the armor plates is wrong eve wise anyway. ^^this I agree wholeheartedly and have been fighting this same fight since Mordu's. Only part I don't agree with is about strafing, if it were curbstomped into oblivion, I wouldn't care and wouldn't miss it. Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Y-BLOCK BioCyberDevelopment 32	Posted - 2014.11.21 13:48:00 - [259] - Quote Bologna I Say!! Compared to most shooters, a decent fitting already moves comparitvely slow! Strafe speed should be relative to suit movement speed! Simple. Done! Now that You've Tasted my Mutton.. How do you Like it!?!
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1262	Posted - 2014.11.21 14:08:00 - [260] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: dual tankings only bad if your not using a minmatar suit. it only exists because the rest of the tanking styles from the other races are partially missing, mods are missing and mods are in the wrong slots. example: if kincats and card regs were in the high slots (where they belong) you wouldnt see gal suits or amarr suits with shields and no because most people who initially bought into this game were people who played eve and knew about this games existence years before it even came out. its absolutely relevant. im also defending strafing in this thread. because the idea hes proposing as a nerf to shields and some of the armor plates is wrong eve wise anyway. ^^this I agree wholeheartedly and have been fighting this same fight since Mordu's. Only part I don't agree with is about strafing, if it were curbstomped into oblivion, I wouldn't care and wouldn't miss it. I'm just sick of games like cod and to a lesser extent battlefield were there's no way to defend yourself once your shot. Whoever spots the other person first wins. Strafing is retro, not many games do it anymore. It's not like dust has lots of cover or third person mechanics. back in the olden days when you didn't have cover everywhere you had to strafe. I think that applys to dust. It's the only real way to stand toe to toe apart from brick taking a sentinel and waddling around like a duck or dropping a bunch of repping nanohives under someone. Which aren't better alternatives. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.

Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1316	Posted - 2014.11.21 14:14:00 - [261] - Quote Yas now i can laugh while i fight 400-800 ehp brick tanked scrubdari scouts Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
ROMULUS H3X research lab 222	Posted - 2014.11.21 14:15:00 - [262] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Kain Spero wrote: If this is implemented I do think that should modify KinCats to buff strafe speed. or myofibs ;) I like how the only way to get people to use myos is to make them do something completely unrelated to melee damage I fail to see how Melee damage and reaction speed are unrelated.. From what I understand... when someone is in better shape their muscles are much more reactive and stronger allowing for someone to contract their muscles faster. This allows a stronger punch and fast reaction time when dodging bullet rounds..... FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2260	Posted - 2014.11.21 14:34:00 - [263] - Quote ROMULUS H3X wrote: Cass Caul wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Kain Spero wrote: If this is implemented I do think that should modify KinCats to buff strafe speed. or myofibs ;) I like how the only way to get people to use myos is to make them do something completely unrelated to melee damage I fail to see how Melee damage and reaction speed are unrelated.. From what I understand... when someone is in better shape their muscles are much more reactive and stronger allowing for someone to contract their muscles faster. This allows a stronger punch and fast reaction time when dodging bullet rounds..... Really, where does the term "musclebound" come from then? Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1262	Posted - 2014.11.21 14:36:00 - [264] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: Cass Caul wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Kain Spero wrote: If this is implemented I do think that should modify KinCats to buff strafe speed. or myofibs ;) I like how the only way to get people to use myos is to make them do something completely unrelated to melee damage I fail to see how Melee damage and reaction speed are unrelated.. From what I understand... when someone is in better shape their muscles are much more reactive and stronger allowing for someone to contract their muscles faster. This allows a stronger punch and fast reaction time when dodging bullet rounds..... Really, where does the term "musclebound" come from then? well flexibility if i had to guess. ever see a bodybuilder scratch his own back? no you havent lol Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Bradric Banewolf D3ATH CARD RUST415 480	Posted - 2014.11.21 14:44:00 - [265] - Quote ROMULUS H3X wrote: Cass Caul wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: [quote=Kain Spero]If this is implemented I do think that should modify KinCats to buff strafe speed. or myofibs ;) This allows a stronger punch and fast reaction time when dodging bullet rounds..... Dodging bullets? "Anybody order chaos?"
Jadd Hatchen KILL-EM-QUICK 676	Posted - 2014.11.21 16:01:00 - [266] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: Signature penalty for shield extenders: Noone except scouts would even care because noone but scouts care for EWAR apparently. And this would hit the min scout even harder than the cal scout. Bad proposal. Hitbox size increase penalty for shield extenders: This would either be hardly noticeable or cause massive problems like getting hit even while behind cover etc. Bad proposal. Strafe speed penalty: Poor attempt at ending scout and heavy dominance. More mobility penalties make the game increasingly annoying to play. Have the potential to kill scout class while at the same time having no effect on heavies. Problem with hitting scouts is a hit detection problem, not a strafe speed problem. Bad proposal. What could be done instead: - Finally make scout bonus affect module efficacy instead of base stats. Tanked scouts will have awful EWAR abilities, easy to detect, bad scans. - Buff assaults profile by 5db to give them the chance to hide from scouts with poor EWAR. - Heavy dominance could be reduced by changing other parameters like base HP, HMG DPS, HMG range, rep-tool rep rate, etc. - HP module stacking could be solved by making other modules more effective and actually worth the risk. Your proposed solutions still don't address the ridicules strafing/dancing the revolution fandango style of play that scouts have now. They would still choose to do it and just be crappier at their role of scouting of the rest of the team and thus make them even less of a team player and more of a d-bag player.
Varoth Drac Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 395	Posted - 2014.11.21 16:05:00 - [267] - Quote Personally I don't like the idea of shields reducing movement, it doesn't seem to make sense. I agree they should have a penalty to reduce the effectiveness of shield stacked Caldari scouts. Exactly what penalty, I'm not sure. Scout only regen reduction, gets worse with tier?
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 692	Posted - 2014.11.21 17:57:00 - [268] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: The only reason cal scouts seem overpowered is because of hit box issues. There's no need to destroy an entire tanking style because one suit has a broken hit box. how long have we been telling CCP the scout hit boxes are stupid? how long have they said basically that theyre are working as intended? now they say the same exact scout we have been complaining about for months is suddenly OP, but not because of the hit box, its because shield extenders are OP? GTFO Kind of a stretch. It's quite clear, to me, that Rattati is trying to combat EHP tanking as a whole by adding more penalties to Armor Plates and Shield Extenders by way of reducing strafe speed. The logic, toward extenders specifically, is that the module itself has weight, not necessarily the shield. Thereby, he's not saying shield extenders are OP at all and even if he were he's hinting at a counter-balance through Myrofibrals/Kinetic Catalyzers increasing strafe speed, as stated in an earlier post. The premise there is that he's trying to increase the benefits of utility while further discouraging simply stacking HP modules on everything. Is it the correct way to do it? That's up for debate. But he never once said that "Caldari Scouts are over-powered because of shield extenders". If anything, this change is more focused toward Sentinel's who arguably have no other reason to use any other module -BESIDES- HP tanking modules. It's a sound idea. Sentinel wants to stack plates/extenders, he's going to lose mobility, which makes him more vulnerable. Something I'm not entirely against because Sentinel's shouldn't be about mobility anyway. Scouts would be affected as well, which is good, because there's a lot of scouts out there (not just Caldari) that just brick tank and become a faster Assault. The worst that can happen is we try it, no-one likes it, and we revert back to the old ways. Honestly, I -liked- the way the strafe speeds were BEFORE the strafe speed increase bug back in 1.5 (I think) so I'm all for it. wait... i asked him why he would nerf extenders... he replies: CCP Rattati wrote: Caldari scout OPness, might someone say you telling me hes not talking about cal scouts being OP? not even a little bit? so then the penalty should far less than any armor plate penalty. and the penalty for shields should be the same regardless of tier, since the shields themselves are weightless and the module itself is only an improvement in quality and technology. after all tech advancements generally go to reduce size and weight. the caldari are already slow enough. there is no precedent anywhere for a need to reduce caldari mobility based on shield extender use. on top of it, shield tankers already have low enough hp. you want them to be even thinner? im not sure how flux grenades and laser weaponry dont ease any and all concerns about shields being anywhere close to OP. bro, do you even shield tank? look im all for balancing the game, but lately ive be seeing nerfs on stuff and im not sure where the root cause for it is. Cal scout are OP so we nerf the main defense of all shield tankers? ONE suit is the cause for nerfing all of them lol? i think theres another way to do this and its not by making shield tanking worse. one of the benefits of shield tanking was that you dont get any movement penalties from it. some show me the pros and con of shield tanking vs armor tanking. and we wonder why armor tanking is so dominant lol
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 692	Posted - 2014.11.21 18:05:00 - [269] - Quote Varoth Drac wrote: Personally I don't like the idea of shields reducing movement, it doesn't seem to make sense. I agree they should have a penalty to reduce the effectiveness of shield stacked Caldari scouts. Exactly what penalty, I'm not sure. Scout only regen reduction, gets worse with tier? it should increase their scan profile. cal scouts dont need to hide anyways when they can see you coming
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 514	Posted - 2014.11.21 18:09:00 - [270] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Personally I don't like the idea of shields reducing movement, it doesn't seem to make sense. I agree they should have a penalty to reduce the effectiveness of shield stacked Caldari scouts. Exactly what penalty, I'm not sure. Scout only regen reduction, gets worse with tier? it should increase their scan profile. cal scouts dont need to hide anyways when they can see you coming Slap a couple ferro or reactive plates on a shield-tanked CalScout, and you have the very best Super Strafe Scout in the game. Stand toe-to-toe with Assaults with twice your HP. Slug it out, wiggle-wiggle and win. Broken hitbox or not, if there's a single Super Strafe Scout who has earned a rightful nerf, it is this guy. And do you really think he cares about his scan profile? Again, low-HP MinScouts running double and triple damps suffer. Assault Lite walks away unscathed. I don't have the answer, but I don't think that Sig Penalty is going to fix the guys who need fixin'.

el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 529	Posted - 2014.11.21 18:55:00 - [271] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Personally I don't like the idea of shields reducing movement, it doesn't seem to make sense. I agree they should have a penalty to reduce the effectiveness of shield stacked Caldari scouts. Exactly what penalty, I'm not sure. Scout only regen reduction, gets worse with tier? it should increase their scan profile. cal scouts dont need to hide anyways when they can see you coming Magic hitbox or not, if there's a single Super Strafer who has earned a rightful nerf, it is the CalScout. Slap a couple ferro or reactive plates on a shield-tanked CalScout, and become the very best Super Strafer in the game. Stand toe-to-toe with Assaults with twice your HP. Slug it out, wiggle-wiggle and win. And do you really care about your scan profile? Of course you don't, or you would've have run damps instead of HP. I don't have the answer (this one's tough), but I don't think that Sig Penalty is going to fix the guys who need fixin'. Low-HP MinScouts running double and triple damps would take the biggest hit, and Assault Lite would walk away largely unscathed. Hey, cool! You're almost here! ALL scouts need a movement nerf to address the strafing disparity or ALL others need a buff to compensate! All this business about creating plate/extender penalties really is just an attempt to alleviate tye existing scout imbalances but unfortunately, since it nerfs everyone, even though it changes the datapool it doesn't actually correct for the imbalance. It's an accounting trick. Not trolling, I'm glad to see you're coming around to realizing that scout base stats have issues relative to the rest of the field and are starting to warm up to fixing them directly instead of screwing all the rest of us with crazy layers of "fix" just being laid out on top of imbalance. +1 and Good Day to you, Sir! o7 Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 529	Posted - 2014.11.21 18:57:00 - [272] - Quote You guys need to be fast, deservedly so. But not THAT fast, gamebreakingly so. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 204	Posted - 2014.11.21 19:02:00 - [273] - Quote We should apply the same effects to back peddle speed as well. It would dynamically change close quarters engagements and actually add to the meta of favoring tank or speed.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 517	Posted - 2014.11.21 19:28:00 - [274] - Quote Why not? Strafe 90% of base movement ---> 80% of base movement (demotes the wiggle) Backpedal 100% of base movement ---> 90% of base movement (demotes the heavy) Regular Plates +2% movement penalty (discourages stacking; demotes King HP) Light Plates +1% movement penalty (discourages stacking; demotes super strafer) All Shields +3% shield recharge delay (discourages stacking; promotes regulators)
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1320	Posted - 2014.11.21 19:34:00 - [275] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Caldari scout OPness, might someone say I like this guy Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6058	Posted - 2014.11.21 20:27:00 - [276] - Quote It seems to me like the optimal nerf would be one involving the physics of strafing. I am also assuming that is much more time intensive, and perhaps this is the best option given the circumstances. I am also Minmatar, and have zero problems with duct tape. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
jace silencerww D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 95	Posted - 2014.11.21 21:17:00 - [277] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why not? Strafe 90% of base movement ---> 80% of base movement (demotes the wiggle) Backpedal 100% of base movement ---> 90% of base movement (demotes the heavy) Regular Plates +2% movement penalty (discourages stacking; demotes King HP) Light Plates +1% movement penalty (discourages stacking; demotes super strafer) All Shields +3% shield recharge delay (discourages stacking; promotes regulators) I like it. how about the shield delay to both recharge when partly & depleted being the same & scan profile goes up?
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 522	Posted - 2014.11.21 21:32:00 - [278] - Quote jace silencerww wrote: I like it. how about the shield delay to both recharge when partly & depleted being the same & scan profile goes up? I believe Sig Penalties would do more harm than good; I'm hoping Rattati finds another way.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 110	Posted - 2014.11.21 21:48:00 - [279] - Quote Decreasing the strafe and back pedaling speeds sounds quite simple. If inertia for each suit on the field is too complicated / CPU intensive then this sounds like a good path to go on.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13334	Posted - 2014.11.22 02:21:00 - [280] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: jace silencerww wrote: I like it. how about the shield delay to both recharge when partly & depleted being the same & scan profile goes up? I am of the opinion that Sig Penalties on Shield Extenders would do more harm than good; hoping Rattati finds another way. Why? Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++

Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 541	Posted - 2014.11.22 02:52:00 - [281] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: jace silencerww wrote: I like it. how about the shield delay to both recharge when partly & depleted being the same & scan profile goes up? I am of the opinion that Sig Penalties on Shield Extenders would do more harm than good; hoping Rattati finds another way. Why? 1. Sig Penalty poses a direct threat to Minmatar Scout viability. 2. Sig Penalty destabilizes intra-class balance among Scouts. 3. Sig Penalty devalues MedFrame EWAR module investment (we should be doing the opposite). 4. Sig Penalty does not constitute a meaningful drawback to its intended target (Assault Lite). 5. Sig Penalty will have little-if-any affect on predominant loadout meta (HP stacking / King HP). I've had a few margaritas, Cat, and I expect that these five points will make infinitely less sense when I read them tomorrow. Let me know if I need elaborate or illustrate.
jace silencerww D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 96	Posted - 2014.11.22 03:30:00 - [282] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: jace silencerww wrote: I like it. how about the shield delay to both recharge when partly & depleted being the same & scan profile goes up? I am of the opinion that Sig Penalties on Shield Extenders would do more harm than good; hoping Rattati finds another way. not a lot so maybe on complex shields 4% adv 3% and basic 2% each shield. the only scout that will hurt in the minnie
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 541	Posted - 2014.11.22 03:36:00 - [283] - Quote jace silencerww wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: jace silencerww wrote: I like it. how about the shield delay to both recharge when partly & depleted being the same & scan profile goes up? I am of the opinion that Sig Penalties on Shield Extenders would do more harm than good; hoping Rattati finds another way. not a lot so maybe on complex shields 4% adv 3% and basic 2% each shield. the only scout that will hurt is the minnie The only Scout who needn't be hurt is the Minnie.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 695	Posted - 2014.11.22 04:37:00 - [284] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Personally I don't like the idea of shields reducing movement, it doesn't seem to make sense. I agree they should have a penalty to reduce the effectiveness of shield stacked Caldari scouts. Exactly what penalty, I'm not sure. Scout only regen reduction, gets worse with tier? it should increase their scan profile. cal scouts dont need to hide anyways when they can see you coming Magic hitbox or not, if there's a single Super Strafer who has earned a rightful nerf, it is the CalScout. Slap a couple ferro or reactive plates on a shield-tanked CalScout, and become the very best Super Strafer in the game. Stand toe-to-toe with Assaults with twice your HP. Slug it out, wiggle-wiggle and win. And do you really care about your scan profile? Of course you don't, or you would've have run damps instead of HP. I don't have the answer (this one's tough), but I don't think that Sig Penalty is going to fix the guys who need fixin'. Low-HP MinScouts running double and triple damps would take the biggest hit here, and the CalScout Super Strafer would walk away largely unscathed. the work being done to scans combined with a sig penalty to extenders, should create a scenario not beneficial to scouts. if armor plates get their new penalty and the sig penalty was severe enough to make scouts show up on scans like light bulbs even while cloaked, then i think it would be fine. the issue with them up til now is that they still get scan bonuses even while brick tanking and no ewar mods fitted. no one is saying the cal scout shouldnt get nerfed, but i dont think a movement penalty should be applied where it affect suits that were totally fine before. if scout HP is too high from stacking, then why not make new variants of HP mods with CPU/PG requirements meant for different suit sizes? we do it for vehicles, why not for the suits?
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 695	Posted - 2014.11.22 04:45:00 - [285] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: jace silencerww wrote: I like it. how about the shield delay to both recharge when partly & depleted being the same & scan profile goes up? I am of the opinion that Sig Penalties on Shield Extenders would do more harm than good; hoping Rattati finds another way. Why? 1. Sig Penalty poses a direct threat to Minmatar Scout viability. 2. Sig Penalty destabilizes intra-class balance among Scouts. 3. Sig Penalty devalues MedFrame EWAR module investment (we should be doing the opposite). 4. Sig Penalty does not constitute a meaningful drawback to its intended target (Assault Lite). 5. Sig Penalty will have little-if-any affect on predominant loadout meta (HP stacking / King HP). I've had a few margaritas, Cat, and I expect that these five points will make infinitely less sense when I read them tomorrow. Let me know if I need elaborate or illustrate. a sig penalty would make assault lite as easy to detect as a regular assault. so anyone running true scouts or even mediums running ewar could see the little abomination coming. and assault lite dont have the same hp as their true assault brothers. they just make up for it with cloaks and built in ewar bonuses. a scout that cant hide and has no ewar is simply an assault with less assault ability. they would get wrecked
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 568	Posted - 2014.11.22 04:47:00 - [286] - Quote I'm under the impression that Scout bonuses are being rewired to point to efficacy. Not sure if that changes your position or not, but it seems very likely.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 258	Posted - 2014.11.22 11:16:00 - [287] - Quote Still have no problems killing cal scouts.... they don't have a problem... people's aim is not always on point if CCP released a stat for Shots fired/shots hit/shots missed it would prove that the majority of people are actually missing their target much more than they think. I reckon my accuracy is something like 30% in this game. Maybe a bit higher from my SCR precision headshot days. The minmatar assault currently is having some hitbox issues, it's large dual tank hp pool can be coupled with high movement speed quite easily to provide a much more menacing target than scouts. No wonder it's the new undeclared fotm. I've had one for ages but i don't use a KBM so i never really found a need for it. If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection... it wil just mean your gun tracks targets for you no problem..... then it will be down to player skill as it should be... i played for a week without aim assist and i realised just how easy people have it... it needs to go. i doubt it will be there for KBM legion so why in dust? take it out NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 258	Posted - 2014.11.22 11:23:00 - [288] - Quote and the reason the "caldariscout OPness" exists is because many of the top players like a shield suit with fast regen that can strafe.... it doesn't mean it's op, it just means its the suit of preference for people who like that kind of suit.... It's weak to AR, SCR and so on which absolutely shred the suit, obviously the elite are going to use one suit over another, according to preference.... The whole bloody reason this exists is because group mentality, people see something in use, they're like.. woah that must be decent, they use it.. next thing you know, CCP nerfs it and the whole crowd moves on.... next is minmatar assault, and CCP needs to stop this nerf buff cycle... In a straight 1 v 1, the cal scout does not have the Hp advantage against other assault, scouts, logis or heavies.... even a gallente assault can fit nearly the same shields as a cal scout without any sacrifice.... People die in cal scouts so easily, CCP needs to release the numbers for cal scout usage and cal scout loss... Player skill attributes to this not anything else, there is no "broken hitbox". If every good player in dust started using the frontline suit tommorow, it's stats would skyrocket beyond it's normal stats, and would that make it OP? no..... Nerf the Nerf/Buff culture. Nerf KB/M strafe. Nerf Aim assist. Nerf everything. NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Spankdamonke ScReWeD uP InC 48	Posted - 2014.11.22 11:54:00 - [289] - Quote I'm lazy, and don't want to sift through pages of arguments to see if anyone has suggested it, but.... Why not simply do a blanket nerf to strafe speeds across the board? EVERY suit would be at a 'disadvantage', with no race/playstyle singled out or getting hit harder than another. I never did understand why sideways and backwards movement were the same as moving forward. I might just crap my pants the day I see mercs utilize cover and tactical positioning, instead of Texas Two-stepping in every encounter. Ssss Tttt Rrrr Aaaa Ffff Eeee Strafe....DANCE!
JIAF-PR 118	Posted - 2014.11.22 13:59:00 - [290] - Quote I go to suggest something "nobody suggested before": if we want the Scouts don't use much HP modules, we need change the eWar bonus to a eWar module efficiency bonus, maybe with this they use more the eWar modules because they go to need them if they want have the bonus. In addition, why the GalScout have a bonus of dampener? they have 4 lowslots for that, they don't need this bonus; is like the CalScout, they give up the precision bonus because they have 4 highslots for this. Sorry for my English; JIAF-PR "Los grandes no son grandes sino porque estamos de rodillas. Levantémonos" GÇô Pedro Albizu Campos

Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2265	Posted - 2014.11.22 15:43:00 - [291] - Quote I find it amusing that some have so little faith in the MinScout. No scout *needs* to stack HP at all. Period. Scouts are supposed to die from being sneezed on. If you're seen as a scout, you should be dead. The whole point of scouts is to sneak in, drop links, start scans/trap objectives/assassinate reddot stragglers. If Scouts are actually fitting for EWAR (like they should be) and are being played intelligently (again, like they should be); there is no reason that they shouldn't be 1-3/0 with shedloads of Intel Assist/Team Spawn WP. Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 546	Posted - 2014.11.22 17:01:00 - [292] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. Well, shields and armor should be mechanically distinct. Otherwise there is no point in having the two distinct systems, as "two HP bars that are identical but have different damage modifiers" is a bit of a boring concept. Now, I'm not arguing against or for speed penalties on shield extenders, but having the same penalties for both extenders and plates reduces some of the flavor from both HP systems. Similar to adding a shield repair tool. (If there was a shield repair system, I'd argue in favor of a grenade that cancels out shield delay, allowing shield users to maximize their performance in squad combat, by maximizing their shield regeneration at the cost of a strongly increased regeneration delay in solo combat) Just think of how to make a distinction for both HP systems, if you can without too much effort.
Haerr 1980	Posted - 2014.11.22 18:39:00 - [293] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: If you'd fix strafe speed you wouldn't have to herf hit detection. fighter jets
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 581	Posted - 2014.11.22 18:44:00 - [294] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection... Jebus would be thrilled.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 262	Posted - 2014.11.22 19:19:00 - [295] - Quote brilliant. love my drunken logic "If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2900	Posted - 2014.11.22 21:28:00 - [296] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. Heres the idea Rattati, its really simple. Make Kincats and Myofibs give movement speed bonuses, so that we can negate this ridiculousness if we sacrifice our off tank, so that there won't be dual tanking. Easy, peezy, lemon squeezey. MY thoughts (for numbers) would be something like this: Penalties(%): Shields: STD: 0 ADV: 1 PRO: 2 Armor(NV, Ferro, React): STD: 2/0/1 ADV: 3/1/1 PRO: 4/2/2 Bonuses(%): Myofibs: STD: 0% ADV: 1% PRO: 2% (Remember, Myofibs have a 50% skill multiplier) Kincats: STD: 2% ADV: 3% PRO: 4% "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6113	Posted - 2014.11.22 21:31:00 - [297] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. Heres the idea Rattati, its really simple. Make Kincats and Myofibs give movement speed bonuses, so that we can negate this ridiculousness if we sacrifice our off tank, so that there won't be dual tanking. Easy, peezy, lemon squeezey. MY thoughts (for numbers) would be something like this: Penalties(%): Shields: STD: 0 ADV: 1 PRO: 2 Armor(NV, Ferro, React): STD: 2/0/1 ADV: 3/1/1 PRO: 4/2/2 Bonuses(%): Myofibs: STD: 0% ADV: 1% PRO: 2% (Remember, Myofibs have a 50% skill multiplier) Kincats: STD: 2% ADV: 3% PRO: 4% He already suggested Myofibrils might be used to increase strafe and/or jump. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Cody Sietz Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 4123	Posted - 2014.11.22 22:48:00 - [298] - Quote I just want the extender+damp Cal Scouts to stop. I run 2 complex precision mods and still can't find them, and when I do they pop up with a ScR/six kin And melt me away. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Jebus McKing Jebus Hates Scans 1053	Posted - 2014.11.22 22:51:00 - [299] - Quote ******************************* ***************************** I'd rather see hitdetection fixed before we make any changes to strafe speed, cal scouts, min assaults, or ANYTHING. ***************************** ******************************* Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
Nirwanda Vaughns 971	Posted - 2014.11.23 00:19:00 - [300] - Quote perhaps for the Shield Extenders we'll see the return of them increasing a suits profile signature (making them easier to pickup) which would counter the scouts a little. Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner

jace silencerww D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 96	Posted - 2014.11.23 00:30:00 - [301] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. Heres the idea Rattati, its really simple. Make Kincats and Myofibs give movement speed bonuses, so that we can negate this ridiculousness if we sacrifice our off tank, so that there won't be dual tanking. Easy, peezy, lemon squeezey. MY thoughts (for numbers) would be something like this: Penalties(%): Shields: STD: 0 ADV: 1 PRO: 2 Armor(NV, Ferro, React): STD: 2/0/1 ADV: 3/1/1 PRO: 4/2/2 Bonuses(%): Myofibs: STD: 0% ADV: 1% PRO: 2% (Remember, Myofibs have a 50% skill multiplier) Kincats: STD: 2% ADV: 3% PRO: 4% He already suggested Myofibrils might be used to increase strafe and/or jump. lol so yea a melee mod to increase strafing??? WHAT THE FREAK?! how does that work? LOL I could understand if it was kin cats but a melee mods.... ROTFLMAO! I get understand myofibiril increasing jumping due to melee mods means more power so more leg strength. but more power don't equal increased speed in strafing.
Nevyn Tazinas Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 46	Posted - 2014.11.23 02:05:00 - [302] - Quote I don't see how this fixes scouts which can strafe through bullets (& laser streams) currently. Hit detection is a real issue vs scouts currently and giving them the ability to INCREASE strafe speed will lead to a new kind of tanking based on the fact the game can't keep up with hit detection.
Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet 226	Posted - 2014.11.23 02:59:00 - [303] - Quote No module needs to increase strafing. Every single suit strafes and backpedals too quickly. Reduce the strafe and backpedal speed, Dust is saved.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 821	Posted - 2014.11.23 09:07:00 - [304] - Quote Let's just nail everyone's feet to the ground and get this over with.
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2341	Posted - 2014.11.23 16:33:00 - [305] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Let's just nail everyone's feet to the ground and get this over with. That might be a bit extreme. I think what these anti-fps peeps are looking for is something like tab targeting - you know, like WOW has. PSN: RationalSpark
Jebus McKing Jebus Hates Scans 1062	Posted - 2014.11.23 17:16:00 - [306] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Let's just nail everyone's feet to the ground and get this over with. That might be a bit extreme. I think what these anti-fps peeps are looking for is something like tab targeting - you know, like WOW has. Make it so that all weapons work like rep-tools. You lock on to an enemy and then the weapon automatically deals damage! That would be perfect! It would fix hitdetection, and strafe issues, and matchmaking at the same time, and it would be as close to EVE as a FPS can get! Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2269	Posted - 2014.11.23 17:50:00 - [307] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Let's just nail everyone's feet to the ground and get this over with. That might be a bit extreme. I think what these anti-fps peeps are looking for is something like tab targeting - you know, like WOW has. Who said anyone was anti-fps? Anti-strafing =/= anti-fps Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 266	Posted - 2014.11.23 18:03:00 - [308] - Quote Yea it is and you know it. It's not eve where numbers dictate everything, strafing and aiming take player skill and ccp likes to eradicate player skill. "If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2269	Posted - 2014.11.23 18:20:00 - [309] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: Yea it is and you know it. It's not eve where numbers dictate everything, strafing and aiming take player skill and ccp likes to eradicate player skill. Ok, so now where do you get that anyone here is anti-FPS? Seriously, this game is an FPS, if we were anti-FPS what makes you think that we wouldn't just move on to another game that legitimately wasn't an FPS? You simply want to witch hunt everyone who doesn't agree with you that strafing is necessary for an FPS. Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
hfderrtgvcd 1236	Posted - 2014.11.23 18:23:00 - [310] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: Yea it is and you know it. It's not eve where numbers dictate everything, strafing and aiming take player skill and ccp likes to eradicate player skill. Ok, so now where do you get that anyone here is anti-FPS? Seriously, this game is an FPS, if we were anti-FPS what makes you think that we wouldn't just move on to another game that legitimately wasn't an FPS? You simply want to witch hunt everyone who doesn't agree with you that strafing is necessary for an FPS. strafing is a part of all tracking shooters. You can't fight in here! This is the war room.

Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 609	Posted - 2014.11.23 18:30:00 - [311] - Quote wiggles =/= strafe anti-wiggles =/= anti-strafe
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2269	Posted - 2014.11.23 18:39:00 - [312] - Quote hfderrtgvcd wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: manboar thunder fist wrote: Yea it is and you know it. It's not eve where numbers dictate everything, strafing and aiming take player skill and ccp likes to eradicate player skill. Ok, so now where do you get that anyone here is anti-FPS? Seriously, this game is an FPS, if we were anti-FPS what makes you think that we wouldn't just move on to another game that legitimately wasn't an FPS? You simply want to witch hunt everyone who doesn't agree with you that strafing is necessary for an FPS. strafing is a part of all tracking shooters. Please define "tracking shooter" and how it differs from other types of shooters (which are defined as what if not "tracking shooters") Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2342	Posted - 2014.11.23 18:47:00 - [313] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Let's just nail everyone's feet to the ground and get this over with. That might be a bit extreme. I think what these anti-fps peeps are looking for is something like tab targeting - you know, like WOW has. Who said anyone was anti-fps? Anti-strafing =/= anti-fps 'For Beginners Only' but still a good introduction. PSN: RationalSpark
Killer's Coys Prima Gallicus 171	Posted - 2014.11.23 20:14:00 - [314] - Quote I've thought about this. My idea : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZwFLbTInQat2sN2RsaMUudAPeLmfNuutgIUkBC800xc/edit#gid=0 Please read it before looking at the sheet 1) I don't speak English very well 2) The numbers are just an idea 3) That's my first google sheet 4) I take the Caldari example because that's the only one I can use haha 5) Tell me what's wrong Thoughts ? :) CCP logical is very strange... Wait & see.
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2269	Posted - 2014.11.23 20:18:00 - [315] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Let's just nail everyone's feet to the ground and get this over with. That might be a bit extreme. I think what these anti-fps peeps are looking for is something like tab targeting - you know, like WOW has. Who said anyone was anti-fps? Anti-strafing =/= anti-fps 'For Beginners Only' but still a good introduction. This still doesn't say how anti-strafing == anti-FPS. Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2342	Posted - 2014.11.23 21:16:00 - [316] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: Alaika Arbosa wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Let's just nail everyone's feet to the ground and get this over with. That might be a bit extreme. I think what these anti-fps peeps are looking for is something like tab targeting - you know, like WOW has. Who said anyone was anti-fps? Anti-strafing =/= anti-fps 'For Beginners Only' but still a good introduction. This still doesn't say how anti-strafing == anti-FPS. You can find a guide like that for ever single FPS ever made going back to DOOM. What FPSs have you played that didn't include strafing? PSN: RationalSpark
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1326	Posted - 2014.11.23 21:38:00 - [317] - Quote Just a thought. Increase assault strafe speed equally with their vertical speed decrease. Logis would favor back and forth (running away),while assaults would favor side-to-side(strafe duels). Or whatever. But IMHO a logistics speed buff has been a long time coming. Even if it is a small one. As for penalties,why not reduce them on suits meant for active fighting? Sents and assaults get much lower penalties as opposed to logistics and scouts. Sents and assault =.5 Logis and scouts = 1-2x If the logistics speed buff is sufficient,more logistics will try different options. But on the other hand...low base eHP and being OHK isn't exactly attractive either. This could potentially badly hurt the already gimped logistics. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 268	Posted - 2014.11.23 22:52:00 - [318] - Quote Who would stand still while being shot? Ccp only listens to bad players moaning.... Moan moan groan grumble nerf. This is the forum life. Hit detection is a problem with certain weapons... Like auto shotgun and splash Strafing is not a problem, it is a player skill based way to increase the survivability of suits through speed at the cost of reduced armour tank. The cal scout already has Lower speed than the minmatar scout, yet no one complains it is OP, because it is not used the good players as much. Strafe nerf is just an excuse for poor aim, when there are people who can kill you no matter how you strafe, there isn't an issue. Without strafe TTK would be too little, weapons would need a nerf across the board, people don't realise how much they miss "If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014
Jebus McKing Jebus Hates Scans 1064	Posted - 2014.11.23 23:11:00 - [319] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP. The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all. This is quite blunt, but it's been a long time coming. Extenders and Armor Plates are obviously the focus here, and Reactives and Ferroscales may be omitted in the first pass. P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small. You know what, I changed my mind. Make it happen. After reading all 16 pages again, I've come to the conclusion that this proposal doesn't sound so bad compared to some other proposals in here. I'll get used to the new strafing speed. Especially since medium suits won't be hit by it as hard as other suits. Now please also make the assault profile buff happen, please. Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 825	Posted - 2014.11.23 23:31:00 - [320] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: You can find a guide like that for every single FPS ever made going back to DOOM. What FPSs have you played that didn't include strafing? I've been playing some Doom multiplayer recently, and I must say half of these whiners would probably have three aneurysms and lose bowel control over the incredible speed of that game. Shooters have gotten slower and slower to appeal to the casual and casualer. If CCP *EVER* wants to make a trailer LIKE THIS for Dust/Legion, they need to start making some hard choices about who this game is going to revolve around in the future. Balance the PvP portion of the game around fun, sound, and proven notions of competitive FPS games, improve PvP support roles for those who can't slay, and introduce PvE activities for everyone else who can't/won't cut it.

JIAF-PR 122	Posted - 2014.11.23 23:49:00 - [321] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: You can find a guide like that for every single FPS ever made going back to DOOM. What FPSs have you played that didn't include strafing? I've been playing some Doom multiplayer recently, and I must say half of these whiners would probably have three aneurysms and lose bowel control over the incredible speed of that game. Shooters have gotten slower and slower to appeal to the casual and casualer. If CCP *EVER* wants to make a trailer LIKE THIS for Dust/Legion, they need to start making some hard choices about who this game is going to revolve around in the future. Balance the PvP portion of the game around fun, sound, and proven notions of competitive FPS games, improve PvP support roles for those who can't slay, and introduce PvE activities for everyone else who can't/won't cut it. Excellent trailer Made me want to play Eve and I don't like it. "Los grandes no son grandes sino porque estamos de rodillas. Levantémonos" GÇô Pedro Albizu Campos
Nevyn Tazinas Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 54	Posted - 2014.11.24 01:34:00 - [322] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: I've been playing some Doom multiplayer recently, and I must say half of these whiners would probably have three aneurysms and lose bowel control over the incredible speed of that game. Shooters have gotten slower and slower to appeal to the casual and casualer. If CCP *EVER* wants to make a trailer LIKE THIS for Dust/Legion, they need to start making some hard choices about who this game is going to revolve around in the future. Balance the PvP portion of the game around fun, sound, and proven notions of competitive FPS games, improve PvP support roles for those who can't slay, and introduce PvE activities for everyone else who can't/won't cut it. Doom does not allow you to strafe straight through machine gun fire and laser beams and take no damage. Nor does nearly every single other FPS out there on the market. There is dodging sideways, or tracking with sideways motion to stay on your target, then there is hit detection glitching through rapid left right strafing. Currently Dust is the later, not the former. It's not skill when you make the system simply unable to register a hit on you, and when you are dodging straight through a laser beam repeatedly and taking no damage, that is what is happening. Faster strafe speeds would simply make this even more likely to occur.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1276	Posted - 2014.11.24 01:36:00 - [323] - Quote JIAF-PR wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: You can find a guide like that for every single FPS ever made going back to DOOM. What FPSs have you played that didn't include strafing? I've been playing some Doom multiplayer recently, and I must say half of these whiners would probably have three aneurysms and lose bowel control over the incredible speed of that game. Shooters have gotten slower and slower to appeal to the casual and casualer. If CCP *EVER* wants to make a trailer LIKE THIS for Dust/Legion, they need to start making some hard choices about who this game is going to revolve around in the future. Balance the PvP portion of the game around fun, sound, and proven notions of competitive FPS games, improve PvP support roles for those who can't slay, and introduce PvE activities for everyone else who can't/won't cut it. Excellent trailer Made me want to play Eve and I don't like it. if you dont like eve why are you playing dust? this is just eve on the planet surfaces. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet 231	Posted - 2014.11.24 01:43:00 - [324] - Quote FPS spergs crack me up Dust isn't every other FPS, i'm sorry you're used to weaksauce arena shooters where you can jiggle a stick back and forth and be called 'skilled' there's no 'skill' in strafing. moving a stick in a figure 8 pattern isn't some amazing feat only you can do, and it makes perfect sense that somebody who is moving forward moves faster than somebody grapevining or running backwards i promise that if strafe speeds are reduced you will find you still need skill to succeed, only the skill involved won't be as brainless as 'jiggle a stick' stop trying to make all FPS games the same. most FPS games are pretty bad and entirely too easy, different is almost an improvement by default
JIAF-PR 122	Posted - 2014.11.24 01:48:00 - [325] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: JIAF-PR wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: You can find a guide like that for every single FPS ever made going back to DOOM. What FPSs have you played that didn't include strafing? I've been playing some Doom multiplayer recently, and I must say half of these whiners would probably have three aneurysms and lose bowel control over the incredible speed of that game. Shooters have gotten slower and slower to appeal to the casual and casualer. If CCP *EVER* wants to make a trailer LIKE THIS for Dust/Legion, they need to start making some hard choices about who this game is going to revolve around in the future. Balance the PvP portion of the game around fun, sound, and proven notions of competitive FPS games, improve PvP support roles for those who can't slay, and introduce PvE activities for everyone else who can't/won't cut it. Excellent trailer Made me want to play Eve and I don't like it. if you dont like eve why are you playing dust? this is just eve on the planet surfaces. Dust is a FPS, I never like the spaceships games; is the tipe of game not the story of the game. "Los grandes no son grandes sino porque estamos de rodillas. Levantémonos" GÇô Pedro Albizu Campos
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1276	Posted - 2014.11.24 02:00:00 - [326] - Quote JIAF-PR wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: JIAF-PR wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: You can find a guide like that for every single FPS ever made going back to DOOM. What FPSs have you played that didn't include strafing? I've been playing some Doom multiplayer recently, and I must say half of these whiners would probably have three aneurysms and lose bowel control over the incredible speed of that game. Shooters have gotten slower and slower to appeal to the casual and casualer. If CCP *EVER* wants to make a trailer LIKE THIS for Dust/Legion, they need to start making some hard choices about who this game is going to revolve around in the future. Balance the PvP portion of the game around fun, sound, and proven notions of competitive FPS games, improve PvP support roles for those who can't slay, and introduce PvE activities for everyone else who can't/won't cut it. Excellent trailer Made me want to play Eve and I don't like it. if you dont like eve why are you playing dust? this is just eve on the planet surfaces. Dust is a FPS, I never like the spaceships games; is the tipe of game not the story of the game. dust is only the fps version of eve online. you are playing eve right now. read the title of the game EVE dust 514. not dust 514 standalone fps. this is new eden. above your head is eve online. same universe. there are spaceships in dust. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 827	Posted - 2014.11.24 02:02:00 - [327] - Quote Nevyn Tazinas wrote: KA24DERT wrote: I've been playing some Doom multiplayer recently, and I must say half of these whiners would probably have three aneurysms and lose bowel control over the incredible speed of that game. Shooters have gotten slower and slower to appeal to the casual and casualer. If CCP *EVER* wants to make a trailer LIKE THIS for Dust/Legion, they need to start making some hard choices about who this game is going to revolve around in the future. Balance the PvP portion of the game around fun, sound, and proven notions of competitive FPS games, improve PvP support roles for those who can't slay, and introduce PvE activities for everyone else who can't/won't cut it. Doom does not allow you to strafe straight through machine gun fire and laser beams and take no damage. Nor does nearly every single other FPS out there on the market. There is dodging sideways, or tracking with sideways motion to stay on your target, then there is hit detection glitching through rapid left right strafing. Currently Dust is the later, not the former. It's not skill when you make the system simply unable to register a hit on you, and when you are dodging straight through a laser beam repeatedly and taking no damage, that is what is happening. Faster strafe speeds would simply make this even more likely to occur. So now we're at the core of the issue. Strafe reduction is bandaid over bad network prediction and hit detection code. The problem with gimping strafe speed is that TTK will go even lower, and make this game even more of a "first shot wins" situation. Screw this ridiculous bandaid.
JIAF-PR 122	Posted - 2014.11.24 02:16:00 - [328] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: JIAF-PR wrote: Dust is a FPS, I never like the spaceships games; is the tipe of game not the story of the game. dust is only the fps version of eve online. you are playing eve right now. read the title of the game EVE dust 514. not dust 514 standalone fps. this is new eden. above your head is eve online. same universe. there are spaceships in dust. Ok, this is stupid -_- you're a troll or you don't understand my point -_- what ever "Los grandes no son grandes sino porque estamos de rodillas. Levantémonos" GÇô Pedro Albizu Campos
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 120	Posted - 2014.11.24 04:11:00 - [329] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Nevyn Tazinas wrote: KA24DERT wrote: I've been playing some Doom multiplayer recently, and I must say half of these whiners would probably have three aneurysms and lose bowel control over the incredible speed of that game. Shooters have gotten slower and slower to appeal to the casual and casualer. If CCP *EVER* wants to make a trailer LIKE THIS for Dust/Legion, they need to start making some hard choices about who this game is going to revolve around in the future. Balance the PvP portion of the game around fun, sound, and proven notions of competitive FPS games, improve PvP support roles for those who can't slay, and introduce PvE activities for everyone else who can't/won't cut it. Doom does not allow you to strafe straight through machine gun fire and laser beams and take no damage. Nor does nearly every single other FPS out there on the market. There is dodging sideways, or tracking with sideways motion to stay on your target, then there is hit detection glitching through rapid left right strafing. Currently Dust is the later, not the former. It's not skill when you make the system simply unable to register a hit on you, and when you are dodging straight through a laser beam repeatedly and taking no damage, that is what is happening. Faster strafe speeds would simply make this even more likely to occur. So now we're at the core of the issue. Strafe reduction is bandaid over bad network prediction and hit detection code. The problem with gimping strafe speed is that TTK will go even lower, and make this game even more of a "first shot wins" situation. Screw this ridiculous bandaid. Or more of a teamwork oriented game. Lowering strafe speed by, say, 10% would probably not even be noticed by most players other than hit detection being improved. Increasing the frame rate improved hit detection a bit. Lowering strafe speed should do something similar. Personally, back pedaling should be at MOST 70% of forward speed ,probably closer to 50%. KDR - Kill Die Repeat
Greiv Rabbah KiLo. 16	Posted - 2014.11.24 18:36:00 - [330] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP. The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all. This is quite blunt, but it's been a long time coming. Extenders and Armor Plates are obviously the focus here, and Reactives and Ferroscales may be omitted in the first pass. P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small. I like this. More and more as I think about it. This encourages bricktanking scouts to shed their armor and assists quickfast scouts in successfully stealth killing the enemy they successfully snuck up on. Nothing is more unrewarding than sneaking up on the enemy from behind only to find that you cant put out enough dps to keep from being the one getting killed. One quick suggestion: can this affect turn speed too? Only makes sense bc of inertia

KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 831	Posted - 2014.11.24 20:11:00 - [331] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Let's just nail everyone's feet to the ground and get this over with. That might be a bit extreme. I think what these anti-fps peeps are looking for is something like tab targeting - you know, like WOW has. Make it so that all weapons work like rep-tools. You lock on to an enemy and then the weapon automatically deals damage! That would be perfect! It would fix hitdetection, and strafe issues, and matchmaking at the same time, and it would be as close to EVE as a FPS can get! I think you're on to something. As it is, someone can start moving unpredictably, thereby confusing their opponent. But there's also chance that the opponent is a tryhard strafe-cheater as well, and now you have TWO people trying to trick each other into missing shots, while also trying to LAND shots. I think we can all say that using such skill and trickery to win an encounter is utterly unacceptable. It's kinda like in basketball when someone fakes another player out, and then the referee shoots the offending player in the back of the head. Just pull the trigger and then you start dealing damage no matter your movement or the movement of your opponent. That takes care of a whole host of issues!
Jadd Hatchen KILL-EM-QUICK 683	Posted - 2014.11.24 20:14:00 - [332] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: HP modules, as in, shield extenders and armor plating? im assuming only for armor plates, as extenders dont have movement penalties extender stacking is also under the scope Can the drawback for Extenders be a larger hit box for shields? Movement penalties don't make sense for Shield Extenders, and the big problem with Caldari Scouts is how small their hit box is, so how about when you extend your shields, it makes them bigger, as in easier to hit? No. The drawback cannot be a bigger hitbox I see your link sir and counter with another: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2473207#post2473207
Haerr 2009	Posted - 2014.11.25 12:20:00 - [333] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Let's just nail everyone's feet to the ground and get this over with. That might be a bit extreme. I think what these anti-fps peeps are looking for is something like tab targeting - you know, like WOW has. Make it so that all weapons work like rep-tools. You lock on to an enemy and then the weapon automatically deals damage! That would be perfect! It would fix hitdetection, and strafe issues, and matchmaking at the same time, and it would be as close to EVE as a FPS can get! I wonder if that is the hitdetection / aim-assist improvements Zatara has been on about? fighter jets
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 213	Posted - 2014.11.25 18:58:00 - [334] - Quote I like the idea but there needs to be some incentive to stack shields over armor. Before: Shield Extenders increase HP by small amounts with a shield regen penalty. Shields come back up quickly between engagements. Armor Plates increase HP by large amounts with movement speed penalty. Armor is meant to be under constant repair before during and after engagements either on it's own or via teammates repair tool. Ideas for Future: Introduce a calculation where total effective HP = Mass leading to a speed penalty. Next, have that penalty STACK with current armor plate penalties. That way, shield extenders will still offer more speed+HP over armor and will not imbalance the choice between armor and shields. Strafe speeds drop ACROSS THE BOARD under the current meta and the meta BETWEEN shields and armor remains exactly the same. more HP = Less speed If that HP is shield = no further reduction in speed If that HP is armor = plates reduce speed as normal If armor stacking speed penalties become too severe, the individual speed penalties per plate can be revised. this is copied from non stickied thread, I forgot this thread existed at the time
Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 566	Posted - 2014.11.25 19:43:00 - [335] - Quote My respec is ready for going Amarr/Gal Assault with ferroscales, reps and kin cats for a genuine 0 delay fast repping, speed (0 strafe penalties), and of course tanked suit. Oh, and my ScR/Breach AR triple damage modded. Take a bow
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 337	Posted - 2014.11.26 01:59:00 - [336] - Quote Can you explain why you think it will only affect scout and heavy suits? Why would medium suit wouldn't get hurt by such a change (or less than others)? And WHY reducing assault speed ??? Their speed in each race are PERFECT, changing them would be wrong, even a little bit. Take out all forms of scans and you'll see how great Dust can be. Scrubs will cry, good players will love it.
ROMULUS H3X research lab 236	Posted - 2014.11.26 02:12:00 - [337] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: Can you explain why you think it will only affect scout and heavy suits? Why would medium suit wouldn't get hurt by such a change (or less than others)? And WHY reducing assault speed ??? Their speed in each race are PERFECT, changing them would be wrong, even a little bit. Seriously though I agree. The assault suits are fine with their current speeds, okay maybe just tone down my Minmatar Assault a degree or two... I'm sorry too many fotm chasers are flocking to my favorite assault suit because they realize they can speed, armor and shield tank all at once Which is probably contributing to the assault suit speed complaints. WELL I AM SORRY YOUR ARMOR TANKED SCOUT COULDN'T OUTRUN MY SPEED STACKED ASSAULT.. teardrop but the other assaults speeds NEED NOT BE TOUCHED.. and if you were to lower the speeds, give that extra armor to make up for that speed reductions...but i would rather keep that speed. IF you do NERF assault speed and BUFF Logistics speed, we all know what is going to be the next flavor of the WEEK. Slayer Logis for everyone! FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS PLASMA/PISTOL/PUNCH ALL OF YOU PUNKS GET HUMILIATED AFTER LUNCH!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5348	Posted - 2014.11.26 08:50:00 - [338] - Quote Rattati said he's increasing penalties for sentinels because it'll make assaults exploiting the headbox more doable. I can actually get behind this reasoning as a sentinel. I want assaults to be the main killer line. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5348	Posted - 2014.11.26 08:52:00 - [339] - Quote Anyone who cries slayer logi for anything in the last three months has demonstrated extremely poor understanding of why the slayer logi came to be and why it died. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 54	Posted - 2014.11.26 09:42:00 - [340] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Let's just nail everyone's feet to the ground and get this over with. That might be a bit extreme. I think what these anti-fps peeps are looking for is something like tab targeting - you know, like WOW has. Make it so that all weapons work like rep-tools. You lock on to an enemy and then the weapon automatically deals damage! That would be perfect! It would fix hitdetection, and strafe issues, and matchmaking at the same time, and it would be as close to EVE as a FPS can get! I think you're on to something. Just pull the trigger and then you start dealing damage no matter your movement or the movement of your opponent. That takes care of a whole host of issues! As it is, someone can start moving unpredictably, thereby confusing their opponent. But there's also chance that the opponent is a tryhard strafe-cheater as well, and now you have TWO people trying to trick each other into missing shots, while also trying to LAND shots. I think we can all say that using such trickery to win an encounter is utterly unacceptable. It's kinda like in basketball when someone fakes another player out, and then the referee shoots the offending player in the back of the head. not sure about the gun play, but i had a friend get called for "intent" to foul.

Cavani1EE7 Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 576	Posted - 2014.11.26 16:06:00 - [341] - Quote Oh by the way yeah, there's no reason on nerfing, even a little bit, assault suits' native speed. The only one kinda high is Minmatar's, others are flawless. Take a bow
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1344	Posted - 2014.11.27 01:57:00 - [342] - Quote ROMULUS H3X wrote: Sequal Rise wrote: Can you explain why you think it will only affect scout and heavy suits? Why would medium suit wouldn't get hurt by such a change (or less than others)? And WHY reducing assault speed ??? Their speed in each race are PERFECT, changing them would be wrong, even a little bit. Seriously though I agree. The assault suits are fine with their current speeds, okay maybe just tone down my Minmatar Assault a degree or two... I'm sorry too many fotm chasers are flocking to my favorite assault suit because they realize they can speed, armor and shield tank all at once Which is probably contributing to the assault suit speed complaints. WELL I AM SORRY YOUR ARMOR TANKED SCOUT COULDN'T OUTRUN MY SPEED STACKED ASSAULT.. teardrop but the other assaults speeds NEED NOT BE TOUCHED.. and if you were to lower the speeds, give that extra armor to make up for that speed reductions...but i would rather keep that speed. IF you do NERF assault speed and BUFF Logistics speed, we all know what is going to be the next flavor of the WEEK. Slayer Logis for everyone! "Assault extra 160 eHP 8-9 slots isn't enough!" Really? Why assault speed should be reduced. And logistics buffed. It has 100 more eHP than basics,yet moves as fast as them. Logistics has 160 eHP less,yet is almost as fast as commandos (which have more eHP than assaults). Armor plates show that for more armor you always sacrifice speed. If you're afraid of being out ran,use some of those 8-9 slots for kincats,or cardiac regs. God knows your base eHP is high enough for it to have almost 0 negative drawbacks. Tl;dr It's called balance,armor for speed,and its been a long time coming. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 4807	Posted - 2014.11.27 02:52:00 - [343] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Is it not possible to have a sort of inertia-based system? An acceleration speed when you change direction sharply. Making the "end" of a strafing line a slow, vulnerable state. Not saying I don't think this is a good idea. It is. Will be get to see some numbers soon? I want this.
Piercing Serenity PFB Pink Fluffy Bunnies 735	Posted - 2014.11.27 06:52:00 - [344] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: Jebus McKing wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Let's just nail everyone's feet to the ground and get this over with. That might be a bit extreme. I think what these anti-fps peeps are looking for is something like tab targeting - you know, like WOW has. Make it so that all weapons work like rep-tools. You lock on to an enemy and then the weapon automatically deals damage! That would be perfect! It would fix hitdetection, and strafe issues, and matchmaking at the same time, and it would be as close to EVE as a FPS can get! I think you're on to something. Just pull the trigger and then you start dealing damage no matter your movement or the movement of your opponent. That takes care of a whole host of issues! As it is, someone can start moving unpredictably, thereby confusing their opponent. But there's also chance that the opponent is a tryhard strafe-cheater as well, and now you have TWO people trying to trick each other into missing shots, while also trying to LAND shots. I think we can all say that using such trickery to win an encounter is utterly unacceptable. It's kinda like in basketball when someone fakes another player out, and then the referee shoots the offending player in the back of the head. Funniest post of the day Closed Beta Vet (E3 Build), Former PFBHz Best Corps Battled (Personally): Imperfects, TeamPlayers, Hellstorm
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 56	Posted - 2014.11.27 10:15:00 - [345] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Kain Spero wrote: If this is implemented I do think that should modify KinCats to buff strafe speed. or myofibs ;) this will break your game.
Lazer Fo Cused Shining Flame Amarr Empire 140	Posted - 2014.11.27 15:50:00 - [346] - Quote 1. Terrible idea 2. Shield increase sig profile not decrease in strafe 3. Armor wins again
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 217	Posted - 2014.11.27 20:00:00 - [347] - Quote Quote: Ideas for Future: Introduce a calculation where total effective HP = Mass leading to a speed penalty. Next, have that penalty STACK with current armor plate penalties. That way, shield extenders will still offer more speed+HP over armor and will not imbalance the choice between armor and shields. Strafe speeds drop ACROSS THE BOARD under the current meta and the meta BETWEEN shields and armor remains exactly the same. Would love to see some comments about this idea depicting how the change would work.
Funkmaster Whale Whale Pod 2520	Posted - 2014.11.27 20:08:00 - [348] - Quote I really hope Rattati doesn't follow up with this. I still think this is a truly awful idea. Reducing strafe speed is going to help no one. I don't think I've been this flustered about a proposed change since aim assist was brought back in Uprising 1.4 or whatever it was. Please for god's sake don't go through with this awful idea. Sentinels are so strong in current meta because most objective maps favor CQC which is of course going to make a high-HP massive-DPS suit popular. Sentinels are barely existent in Ambush where engagements widely vary terrain. There's honestly nothing OP about Sentinels right now. I play Scout/Assault and never have died to one thinking "Wow that's so overpowered!". If I die to one, I shouldn't have been caught out in his niche. Rattati is trying to change too much at this point. Follow me on Twitch.tv!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5404	Posted - 2014.11.27 20:38:00 - [349] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: There's honestly nothing OP about Sentinels right now. the fact that you can type this and come off sincerely is amazing and frightening. teach me this secret so I can troll better. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 437	Posted - 2014.11.27 23:46:00 - [350] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Funkmaster Whale wrote: There's honestly nothing OP about Sentinels right now. the fact that you can type this and come off sincerely is amazing and frightening. teach me this secret so I can troll better. Probably because there is a fairly reasonable chance he is not wrong.

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5438	Posted - 2014.11.28 00:12:00 - [351] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Funkmaster Whale wrote: There's honestly nothing OP about Sentinels right now. the fact that you can type this and come off sincerely is amazing and frightening. teach me this secret so I can troll better. Probably because there is a fairly reasonable chance he is not wrong. circumstantially he is correct. Unfortunately in order for him to be correct we need a 50/50 open/CQC map spread EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 437	Posted - 2014.11.28 01:12:00 - [352] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Imp Smash wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Funkmaster Whale wrote: There's honestly nothing OP about Sentinels right now. the fact that you can type this and come off sincerely is amazing and frightening. teach me this secret so I can troll better. Probably because there is a fairly reasonable chance he is not wrong. circumstantially he is correct. Unfortunately in order for him to be correct we need a 50/50 open/CQC map spread Funny you should mention that...because about an hour ago this was said. Honestly if reptools were nerfed as far as either rep speed or time allowed for usage continually (I would go with the former to help protect guardian points and mass repairs after fights are over) AND maps were designed with a bit more battle doctrine in mind you would solve the heavy problem.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 705	Posted - 2014.11.28 11:50:00 - [353] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: HP modules, as in, shield extenders and armor plating? im assuming only for armor plates, as extenders dont have movement penalties extender stacking is also under the scope why? im curious. what problem do they cause? EDIT: if you were to add a penalty to extenders, the only one that makes sense coming from EVE is a penalty to scan profile. But if you do that then shield tanking would need to be looked at again. i can already think of a bunch of issues with that, especially for caldari. but that could be easily fixed with adding a bonus to regulators to offset the extender penalty. Because you can break strafing with extenders to Edit to your edit: Caldari ships are the slowest so if you'd like you could ask to take a heavy speed reduction I thought amarr were slowest. Caldari have good agility. But sure, nerd my speed and in return give us superior scan range lol
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 765	Posted - 2014.11.28 11:53:00 - [354] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: Sentinels are barely existent in Ambush where engagements widely vary terrain. ^ Either balderdash or ambiguous sentence structure. Indoor Ambush maps are 50% or better Fatty+HMG roughly 100% of the time. Breakin Stuff wrote: Funkmaster Whale wrote: There's honestly nothing OP about Sentinels right now. the fact that you can type this and come off sincerely is amazing and frightening. teach me this secret so I can troll better. Also, this. Lol
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1345	Posted - 2014.11.28 21:22:00 - [355] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Imp Smash wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Funkmaster Whale wrote: There's honestly nothing OP about Sentinels right now. the fact that you can type this and come off sincerely is amazing and frightening. teach me this secret so I can troll better. Probably because there is a fairly reasonable chance he is not wrong. circumstantially he is correct. Unfortunately in order for him to be correct we need a 50/50 open/CQC map spread Funny you should mention that...because about an hour ago this was said. Honestly if reptools were nerfed as far as either rep speed or time allowed for usage continually (I would go with the former to help protect guardian points and mass repairs after fights are over) AND maps were designed with a bit more battle doctrine in mind you would solve the heavy problem. Pro rep tools on 3/4ths of logistics can't outrep a basic light weapon,and you want them nerfed more? Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 441	Posted - 2014.11.29 01:38:00 - [356] - Quote Meee One wrote: Imp Smash wrote: Funny you should mention that...because about an hour ago this was said. Honestly if reptools were nerfed as far as either rep speed or time allowed for usage continually (I would go with the former to help protect guardian points and mass repairs after fights are over) AND maps were designed with a bit more battle doctrine in mind you would solve the heavy problem. Pro rep tools on 3/4ths of logistics can't outrep a basic light weapon,and you want them nerfed more? Yeah, I guess to be honest I think they should be weaker but I am unable to call nerf. There are several reasons and caveats to this: 1. On paper it sounds like the reptool isn't too crazy because, as you just said, a basic light weapon can out damage it. But let's be honest -- that is assuming ALL shots hit which is silly. It also ignores inherent regeneration the suit may have. Yes heavies take more damage from incoming fire than any other suit -- even so you can't expect a heavy to take EVERY shot (even though it is possible.) Your reptool buys him time to fire. And a heavy HMG does a lot of damage -- more so than any light weapon. Due to dispersion it won't be 800/900 DPS like so many people like to say, but it will still be higher than any light weapon. So the heavy has a bit more time to DPS and time to do that DPS is a larger gap for a heavy over any other suit because of the damage output. Basically the proof is in the pudding. A heavy by him/herself is dangerous at close range but reasonably killable even toe to toe with an assault. But a heavy with a logi on the back will win over 90% of the time. 2. The reptool is free usage. Other games with repair mechanics do not give infinite reptool usage. Nor the sheer range. It's not just about Reps per second (RPS?) but also about the availability. But as I said there are caveats. If they made reptools rep a little slower their triage WPs should be boosted a little to compensate the Logi for the extra time spent repping a heavy. Basically the logi would get a tad more WP for it but be able to do it to less people in a given time frame thereby balancing out WP gain. And I also don't think they should limit reptool usage. If you have 1 logi, 2 or 3 heavies, 5 or 6 assaults, and a scout or 2 that survive a fight defending a point that logi is going to have to rep ALL of them. Especially at lower rep rate that will cost time and time IS a resource. Furthermore I think we will see Armor being able to absorb more damage in the future. This is just my guess as to the meta game and its next evolution mind you, but shield tanking and armor tanking are about to go through major changes that will either A. Make armor tanking WAY better than shield so more people go armor tank and that reptool will have more buffer HP to rep or B. Shield tanking will catch up to armor tanking and we will see more shield fits. Which will mean we see more guns that are better against shield than armor. Which will mean the armor you are repping will be taking more damage from armor weak/shield strong guns than currently. At the same time, I am uncomfortable calling for a nerf of anything really. I may be horrendously wrong. What I deem an issue with reptools may NOT be an issue with reptools but in fact with something else. More to the point, I really don't know what to suggest to weaken the reptool slightly while still being fair. It may be the case that reptools are fine on other suits and only unbalanced on the heavy. I honestly don't know. There is, however, no doubt in my mind that reptools are magnifying the heavy's advantages more than they magnify other suit's advantages. EDIT: Actually scratch that. I just had a thought. What if Reptools repaired a percent of a suit's HP as opposed to a specific number? And that this number was specifc for each suit? Heavies get say (random number incomming) 6% of their HP back per second while assaults get 10% back per second? The commando gets back 8% The number could be whatever makes reptools more or less the same amount of rep for the various assaults while making them a tad less effective on heavies. (random numbers chosen of course. the above edit is just brainstorming. feel free to shoot it down in a fiery ball.) Regards.
Haerr Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 2075	Posted - 2014.11.29 15:19:00 - [357] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, Stuff Dear CCP Rattati Strafe speeds are fine. Lack of transitional animations between strafing in one direction and then changing direction isn't fine. Btw wasn't ?CCP Someone? working on making infantry animations smoother? fighter jets
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1350	Posted - 2014.11.29 20:16:00 - [358] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: Meee One wrote: Imp Smash wrote: Funny you should mention that...because about an hour ago this was said. Honestly if reptools were nerfed as far as either rep speed or time allowed for usage continually (I would go with the former to help protect guardian points and mass repairs after fights are over) AND maps were designed with a bit more battle doctrine in mind you would solve the heavy problem. Pro rep tools on 3/4ths of logistics can't outrep a basic light weapon,and you want them nerfed more? Yeah, I guess to be honest I think they should be weaker but I am unable to call nerf. There are several reasons and caveats to this: 1. On paper it sounds like the reptool isn't too crazy because, as you just said, a basic light weapon can out damage it. But let's be honest -- that is assuming ALL shots hit which is silly. It also ignores inherent regeneration the suit may have. Yes heavies take more damage from incoming fire than any other suit -- even so you can't expect a heavy to take EVERY shot (even though it is possible.) Your reptool buys him time to fire. And a heavy HMG does a lot of damage -- more so than any light weapon. Due to dispersion it won't be 800/900 DPS like so many people like to say, but it will still be higher than any light weapon. So the heavy has a bit more time to DPS and time to do that DPS is a larger gap for a heavy over any other suit because of the damage output. Basically the proof is in the pudding. A heavy by him/herself is dangerous at close range but reasonably killable even toe to toe with an assault. But a heavy with a logi on the back will win over 90% of the time. 2. The reptool is free usage. Other games with repair mechanics do not give infinite reptool usage. Nor the sheer range. It's not just about Reps per second (RPS?) but also about the availability. But as I said there are caveats. If they made reptools rep a little slower their triage WPs should be boosted a little to compensate the Logi for the extra time spent repping a heavy. Basically the logi would get a tad more WP for it but be able to do it to less people in a given time frame thereby balancing out WP gain. And I also don't think they should limit reptool usage. If you have 1 logi, 2 or 3 heavies, 5 or 6 assaults, and a scout or 2 that survive a fight defending a point that logi is going to have to rep ALL of them. Especially at lower rep rate that will cost time and time IS a resource. Furthermore I think we will see Armor being able to absorb more damage in the future. This is just my guess as to the meta game and its next evolution mind you, but shield tanking and armor tanking are about to go through major changes that will either A. Make armor tanking WAY better than shield so more people go armor tank and that reptool will have more buffer HP to rep or B. Shield tanking will catch up to armor tanking and we will see more shield fits. Which will mean we see more guns that are better against shield than armor. Which will mean the armor you are repping will be taking more damage from armor weak/shield strong guns than currently. At the same time, I am uncomfortable calling for a nerf of anything really. I may be horrendously wrong. What I deem an issue with reptools may NOT be an issue with reptools but in fact with something else. More to the point, I really don't know what to suggest to weaken the reptool slightly while still being fair. It may be the case that reptools are fine on other suits and only unbalanced on the heavy. I honestly don't know. There is, however, no doubt in my mind that reptools are magnifying the heavy's advantages more than they magnify other suit's advantages. EDIT: Actually scratch that. I just had a thought. What if Reptools repaired a percent of a suit's HP as opposed to a specific number? And that this number was specifc for each suit? Heavies get say (random number incomming) 6% of their HP back per second while assaults get 10% back per second? The commando gets back 8% The number could be whatever makes reptools more or less the same amount of rep for the various assaults while making them a tad less effective on heavies. (random numbers chosen of course. the above edit is just brainstorming. feel free to shoot it down in a fiery ball.) Regards. Wow,after the scanner and hive nerf,rep tools were the only thing not nerfed. 1) "Teamworks is OP and a single assault should be able to easily overcome two suits working together." -lolwut,you're serious aren't you? 2) "Rep tools help heavies more." Solution 1:Realize logistics is called a 'force multiplier' for a reason. Solution 2:Realize you could bring your own logistics along and have the reps,and be able to out strafe that same heavy. Solution 3:Realize that (currently) logistics are only fast enough to help heavies,which is why you don't see many assault + logistics combos. 3)"Rep tool is free usage." -So the CPU/PG requirement is just a suggestion? -The suit itself is the battery. 4)"% based reps." -You like armor dual tanking? Because this would cripple shield suits further. -I assume scouts rep would be highest,so you just migrated heavy FOTM chasers to brick Gal/Amarr scout chasers. 5)"Calling something silly." -I find it incredible that you say all shots won't land,but don't mention rep tools can lose lock-on going around corners,or if the person being repped runs out of range. -I also find it incredible that you don't take into consideration that the rep tool make the user vulnerable and traps them within 20m of active gunfire,while weapons don't. -Risk vs reward is actually alright with rep tools as they are,any changes and they become too risk and much less reward. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5533	Posted - 2014.11.29 20:23:00 - [359] - Quote Haerr wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, Stuff Dear CCP Rattati Strafe speeds are fine. Lack of transitional animations between strafing in one direction and then changing direction isn't fine. Btw wasn't ?CCP Someone? working on making infantry animations smoother? transitional animations would be how you simulate inertia in most games. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 280	Posted - 2014.11.29 21:01:00 - [360] - Quote I just feel 1400 armour heavies being repped by core focus or sixkin triage is way too much.... The rep tools need an 80% efficiency on heavies. "If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5538	Posted - 2014.11.29 21:29:00 - [361] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: I just feel 1400 armour heavies being repped by core focus or sixkin triage is way too much.... The rep tools need an 80% efficiency on heavies. Percent-based reps would seem a sane way to go. 7-10% reps wouldn't be overly obnoxious IMHO and would encourage more downtime reps, less active while being fired upon reps. Just make a shield transporter that does the same. Done. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 789	Posted - 2014.11.30 00:59:00 - [362] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Caldari scout OPness, might someone say Just in case it hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread ... Efficacy rewiring will slap the CalScout two times. He'll no longer be able to benefit from his EWAR bonuses simultaneously, as both of this bonuses will be linked to low-slot modules (and he only has two). EWAR CalScouts will have to choose between strong Scan Range or strong Scan Profile. Assault Lite CalScouts will lose their native competency in both Profile and Range. With or without an additional nerf to Shield Extenders, CalScout OPness is in for a kick in the pants.
Slave of MORTE Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 116	Posted - 2014.11.30 18:43:00 - [363] - Quote When? Yet another slave of Mortedeamor
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 803	Posted - 2014.11.30 18:54:00 - [364] - Quote Slave of MORTE wrote: When? Scout efficacy bonuses? Thinking soon ... 12 days ago, CCP Rattati wrote: I remember someone here converting the current scout ewar bonuses to module efficacy quid pro quo. I need that data nao , because of reasons. What better time to do that change now? Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2466381#post2466381 11 days ago, CCP Rattati wrote: ... Moving to ewar efficacy for scouts will then counter the high native ewar slayer scouts. Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2468612#post2468612
Slave of MORTE Eyniletti Rangers Minmatar Republic 118	Posted - 2014.11.30 21:34:00 - [365] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Slave of MORTE wrote: When? o/ Morte. Scout efficacy bonuses? Thinking soon ... 12 days ago, CCP Rattati wrote: I remember someone here converting the current scout ewar bonuses to module efficacy quid pro quo. I need that data nao , because of reasons. What better time to do that change now? Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2466381#post2466381 11 days ago, CCP Rattati wrote: ... Moving to ewar efficacy for scouts will then counter the high native ewar slayer scouts. Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2468612#post2468612 2 days ago, Iron Wolf Saber wrote: ... In talks with CCP there is the notion that these should be module based overall on all suits not to just single out the scout suit ... Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2485387#post2485387 I don't know anything about ewar and thus I do not care..However the speed penalties logi buff ..stuff when Yet another slave of Mortedeamor
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 442	Posted - 2014.12.01 00:35:00 - [366] - Quote Meee One wrote: Wow,after the scanner and hive nerf,rep tools were the only thing not nerfed that badly. 1) "Teamworks is OP and a single assault should be able to easily overcome two suits working together." -lolwut,you're serious aren't you? 2) "Rep tools help heavies more." Solution 1:Realize logistics is called a 'force multiplier' for a reason. Solution 2:Realize you could bring your own logistics along and have the reps,and be able to out strafe that same heavy. Solution 3:Realize that (currently) logistics are only fast enough to help heavies,which is why you don't see many assault + logistics combos. 3)"Rep tool is free usage." -So the CPU/PG requirement is just a suggestion? -The suit itself is the battery. 4)"% based reps." -You like armor dual tanking? Because this would cripple shield suits further. -I assume scouts rep would be highest,so you just migrated heavy FOTM chasers to brick Gal/Amarr scout chasers. 5)"Calling something silly." -I find it incredible that you say all shots won't land,but don't mention rep tools can lose lock-on going around corners,or if the person being repped runs out of range. -I also find it incredible that you don't take into consideration that the rep tool make the user vulnerable and traps them within 20m of active gunfire,while weapons don't. -Risk vs reward is actually alright with rep tools as they are,any changes and they become too risk and much less reward. It really annoys me when someone says I said something that I didn't say. 1. I don't think that 1 assault should take a heavy more often than not. I AM a heavy! Nor did I ever say teamwork is OP. What I am saying is that 1 heavy (ME) in a closed in point (almost every objective in every game mode that has objectives) can, in fact, take multiple guys simultaneously with a logi. So think numbers. If my squad has 3 heavies and 3 logis on them, it's going to take more than 1 squad of assaults to kill them. That is the source of the heavy spam -- it is efficient number wise once you are set up on a point or when assaulting a point. 2. Solu 1: Unrelated comment Solu 2: Agreed. We should do that more often. Solu 3: Incorrect. Completely 3. Guns and grenades are limited by ammo. And reloading. And heat. And dispersion. And range. And recoil. And aiming. They are not free usage. Reptools are limited by range. And...that's it. Yet they all have PG/CPU costs. Your statement is completely unrelated to the point. I do not care about logic crafting physics. It's about gameplay. 4. I have a shield tanking Cal sent-- and we need our shield reptools aleady!!! >:( -- and an armor tanking Amarr assault who uses laser rifles. Hence I never get in close. So none of this benefits me. And, my idea about % repping is probably bad, but if it wasn't bad would say scouts and Logis least, Then Sentintels, then Commandos, then assaults. % differences to be MINOR. 5. I agree about logi risk vs reward with reptool. I would say if their risk increased -- the reward should also increase. Please do not put words in my mouth. Imp Smash wrote: EDIT: Actually scratch that. I just had a thought. What if Reptools repaired a percent of a suit's HP as opposed to a specific number? And that this number was specifc for each suit? Heavies get say (random number incomming) 6% of their HP back per second while assaults get 10% back per second? The commando gets back 8% The number could be whatever makes reptools more or less the same amount of rep for the various assaults while making them a tad less effective on heavies. (random numbers chosen of course. the above edit is just brainstorming. feel free to shoot it down in a fiery ball.) Regards. Breakin Stuff wrote: Percent-based reps would seem a sane way to go. 7-10% reps wouldn't be overly obnoxious IMHO and would encourage more downtime reps, less active while being fired upon reps. Just make a shield transporter that does the same. Done. Are you sure you aren't following my posts? You seem to say a lot of things literally a few hours after I do!
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5555	Posted - 2014.12.01 10:36:00 - [367] - Quote I follow a lot of threads you happen to post in. Good ideas are good ideas no matter the source. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 224	Posted - 2014.12.01 21:44:00 - [368] - Quote Strafe speeds need to come down. Back peddle speeds need to come down a lot more. Can whatever penalties that are decided on be applied 110% to back peddle speed? It makes no sense how fast people walk backwards.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 280	Posted - 2014.12.01 23:52:00 - [369] - Quote Kaeru people can walk backwards just as fast as they can forwards Do you even walk bro? Or just sit on your couch making terrible points "If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 442	Posted - 2014.12.02 00:39:00 - [370] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I follow a lot of threads you happen to post in. Good ideas are good ideas no matter the source. Then where's my author credit

Vrain Matari Mikramurka Shock Troop Minmatar Republic 2357	Posted - 2014.12.02 15:39:00 - [371] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Funkmaster Whale wrote: There's honestly nothing OP about Sentinels right now. the fact that you can type this and come off sincerely is amazing and frightening. teach me this secret so I can troll better. I agree with Funkmaster Whale. When i die to a heavy, it is almost exclusively a failure of judgement on my part. Occasional i will get forced out of cover by another enemy and vaporized by a heavy, but this is also an error on my part, having pushed to far forward without waiting for support. I think the troll here is you. PSN: RationalSpark
Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2282	Posted - 2014.12.02 15:47:00 - [372] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: Kaeru people can walk backwards just as fast as they can forwards Do you even walk bro? Or just sit on your couch making terrible points People also trip more easily when walking backwards as fast as they walk forwards. Are you suggesting that CCP include mechanics for tripping? Dust514/Legion should be a(n): [_] Arcade Lobby Shooter [X] Sci-fi Military Sim
poison Diego Titans of Phoenix 505	Posted - 2014.12.02 16:38:00 - [373] - Quote Is this yet another buff to the caldari scout?!! Tilgangur lífsins? . Hvernig sem litið er á það þá er Nýja Eden bara byrjunin.
poison Diego Titans of Phoenix 505	Posted - 2014.12.02 16:46:00 - [374] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, So pretty much guys, we are killing every other scout than the caldari Caldari is gonna be the way to go... wait... does CCP favourite the Caldari? What a revelation.. Tilgangur lífsins? . Hvernig sem litið er á það þá er Nýja Eden bara byrjunin.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 15332	Posted - 2014.12.02 19:58:00 - [375] - Quote poison Diego wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, So pretty much guys, we are killing every other scout than the caldari Caldari is gonna be the way to go... wait... does CCP favourite the Caldari? What a revelation.. Y'know I'd never have guessed the race with the highest allocation of content and prominence in trailers, screenshots, and media would have been CCP's favourite! I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this. Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1291	Posted - 2014.12.02 20:00:00 - [376] - Quote True Adamance wrote: poison Diego wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, So pretty much guys, we are killing every other scout than the caldari Caldari is gonna be the way to go... wait... does CCP favourite the Caldari? What a revelation.. Y'know I'd never have guessed the race with the highest allocation of content and prominence in trailers, screenshots, and media would have been CCP's favourite! the poor underrated jove. ccp should be jove only so theres no bias. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Jadd Hatchen KILL-EM-QUICK 693	Posted - 2014.12.02 20:49:00 - [377] - Quote Ok, I just realized one more thing that makes this whole speed nerf to hp amount a bad idea... If you have a higher level in Dropsuit Armor Plating Skill, then you get more "efficacy" out of it... Meaning you get more hitpoints out of it. But if you make the speed nerf based on number of hit points, then you are penalizing people for having level 2 or 4 skills versus having level 1, 3, or 5. The higher your skill the slower you move? How does that make sense? Hell in EVE the higher your skill the more the penalty is reduced... Maybe add a skill to reduce Armor penalties and and another skill to reduce shield penalties. Instead just do something more simple like a suit based reduction in speed for the armor... something like BASIC PLATES ADVANCED PLATES COMPLEX PLATES -1% speed -2% speed -3% speed on Heavy Dropsuits -2% speed -4% speed -6% speed on Medium Dropsuits -3% speed -6% speed -9% speed on Light Dropsuits And I say again that the nerf for shield extenders should be an EWAR penalty.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5599	Posted - 2014.12.02 21:38:00 - [378] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: I think the troll here is you. that is entirely besides the point. Were it not for msp design heavily favoring CQC I would be pointing and laughing at the heavy QQ. But given what we have, if we cannot adjust the maps we need to adjust the dropsuits. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 889	Posted - 2014.12.02 22:56:00 - [379] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: I think the troll here is you. that is entirely besides the point. Were it not for msp design heavily favoring CQC I would be pointing and laughing at the heavy QQ. But given what we have, if we cannot adjust the maps we need to adjust the dropsuits. Or we can take a whack at King HP by introducing significantly greater drawbacks to brick and the stacking of brick. This would encourage everyone (heavies included) to run modules other than brick atop more brick in their lows. Over 99.9% of all low slot module sales are brick-related. King HP is a universal problem, and universal problems are best solved with unilateral solutions. Let's shoot for drawbacks which will make brick-stacking less appealing for everyone. This is the only way to balance Low Slot Modules, and there's a chance we'll fix Heavies in the process.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 893	Posted - 2014.12.02 23:43:00 - [380] - Quote Conceptual Solution to King HP We introduce a new metric called "Brick Quotient" which behaves much like EQ Bandwidth. It is prescribed on a frame-by-frame basis, and it establishes a threshold beyond which mobility penalties are accrued. Next, we subject all movement metrics to influence by the Brick Quotient. This should include everything movement related, from backpedal speed to weapon-swap speed to the rate at which stamina drains when actions are performed. If an action involves merc movement, then that action is slowed as the merc's degree of encumbrance increases. Biotic Twist Myofibril Stimulant - Affects speed of arm-based motor movement, including weapon swap speed, weapon raise speed, ascend ladder speed, swing knife speed, etc. If Brick Quotient is exceeded, encumbrance penalties specific to arm-based movement can be partly offset using Myofibril Stimulants. Cardiac Regulator - Affects rate of stamina drain and cost of particular arm-based and leg-based motor movements, now including strafe and backpedal in addition to melee and sprint. If Brick Quotient is exceeded, encumbrance penalties specific to stamina cost and recovery can be partly offset using Cardiac Regulators. Kinetic Catalyzer - Affects speed of leg-based motor movement, including walk speed, rotation speed, backpedal speed, sprint speed, etc. If Brick Quotient is exceeded, encumbrance penalties specific to leg-based movement can be partly offset using Kinetic Catalyzers.

DDx77 The Exemplars RISE of LEGION 43	Posted - 2014.12.03 00:39:00 - [381] - Quote If the Cal scout is the catalyst for this change then why not just Nerf that suit? By nerfing extenders this way I don't think you are fixing the problem simply because a Cal scout can tank less ( or not at all) and then we are back to the same problem. Actually it's worse because suits that rely on shield tanking are now being nerfed because of a suit that can sidestep your "fix" This change may possibly make the Caldari assault absolutely useless. It is already the weakest suit with no useable bonus, has a rifle that has been severely gimped, and is shield based which are weak against every weapon. I demand a respect!!!!! (Kidding) This change also buffs armor tanking suits. How? Well most of them already use damage mods in place of extenders, now it may be a no-brainer for all armor tankers to use this practice. When you nerf something this buffs something else
Talon Paetznick II Down With The Sickness 48	Posted - 2014.12.03 04:28:00 - [382] - Quote they arent dodging bullets they are simply exceeding the other players ability so track them maybe buff turn speed and you will see a more noticable difference (not for heavys though they have to have at least one achilles heel) I am scout and the bane of heavys since 1.6
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 909	Posted - 2014.12.03 13:45:00 - [383] - Quote Talon Paetznick II wrote: they arent dodging bullets they are simply exceeding the other players ability so track them maybe buff turn speed and you will see a more noticable difference (not for heavys though they have to have at least one achilles heel) You can buff your own turn speed using In Game Settings. Tab over to Sensitivity and crank it up.
Jadd Hatchen KILL-EM-QUICK 694	Posted - 2014.12.03 18:49:00 - [384] - Quote Talon Paetznick II wrote: they arent dodging bullets they are simply exceeding the other players ability so track them maybe buff turn speed and you will see a more noticable difference (not for heavys though they have to have at least one achilles heel) No actually you can have someone fire a steady stream of bullets from a assault combat rifle and still have a scout run right through it without getting hit at all if they are fast enough.
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 62	Posted - 2014.12.03 19:24:00 - [385] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP. The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all. This is quite blunt, but it's been a long time coming. Extenders and Armor Plates are obviously the focus here, and Reactives and Ferroscales may be omitted in the first pass. P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small. Why don't you leave the shield suits alone, with all the flux barge strikes coming we need an increase in movement speed not a decrease. you need to look at this broken "dance dance party" mechanic with serious care and resolve; because, with latency issues it makes DUST look and play terrible.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 932	Posted - 2014.12.03 20:17:00 - [386] - Quote GLOBAL fils'de RAGE wrote: you need to look at this broken "dance dance party" ... it makes DUST look and play terrible. Dude, the dance dance party is player skill. How can you not take wigglewigglewiggle seriously?
Niuvo NECROM0NGERS 1046	Posted - 2014.12.04 00:00:00 - [387] - Quote When?
Niuvo NECROM0NGERS 1046	Posted - 2014.12.04 00:02:00 - [388] - Quote GLOBAL fils'de RAGE wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP. The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all. This is quite blunt, but it's been a long time coming. Extenders and Armor Plates are obviously the focus here, and Reactives and Ferroscales may be omitted in the first pass. P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small. Why don't you leave the shield suits alone, with all the flux barge strikes coming we need an increase in movement speed not a decrease. you need to look at this broken "dance dance party" mechanic with serious care and resolve; because, with latency issues it makes DUST look and play terrible. You can still run, it's the strafe speed that's stupid!
Niuvo NECROM0NGERS 1046	Posted - 2014.12.04 00:04:00 - [389] - Quote sorry cal assault and scout, but it's time to stop dancing.
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 64	Posted - 2014.12.04 03:31:00 - [390] - Quote Niuvo wrote: GLOBAL fils'de RAGE wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP. The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all. This is quite blunt, but it's been a long time coming. Extenders and Armor Plates are obviously the focus here, and Reactives and Ferroscales may be omitted in the first pass. P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small. Why don't you leave the shield suits alone, with all the flux barge strikes coming we need an increase in movement speed not a decrease. you need to look at this broken "dance dance party" mechanic with serious care and resolve; because, with latency issues it makes DUST look and play terrible. You can still run, it's the strafe speed that's stupid! ya, more of that as well. strafe speed plus the latency is the problem and this mental ma$turbation will not fix anything.

Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3506	Posted - 2014.12.04 05:38:00 - [391] - Quote I am so late to this thread.... I'm curious though....why are people so afraid of strafe? People miss their targets..hit detection has little to do with it. I hit targets when they're strafing all the time. The strafe adds flair and enjoyment to this game that is missing in other shooters. > Check RND out here
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 64	Posted - 2014.12.04 06:04:00 - [392] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I am so late to this thread.... I'm curious though....why are people so afraid of strafe? People miss their targets..hit detection has little to do with it. I hit targets when they're strafing all the time. The strafe adds flair and enjoyment to this game that is missing in other shooters. Tuesday morning at approximately 10:30am EST-we played against you, Arirana was on your team. i and my son had him in a 15meter "angled" kill box and little damage was dealt, 2x HMG vs a dancer. Not my aim, definitely not my 17yrd olds thumbs, not my fiber optic network. Dorms, apartments, public housing, condo's, microwave, wifi broadband, satellite internet are all issues nevermind the Brazilians on your team and 2 japanese--and CCP is obtuse.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3506	Posted - 2014.12.04 07:55:00 - [393] - Quote GLOBAL fils'de RAGE wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I am so late to this thread.... I'm curious though....why are people so afraid of strafe? People miss their targets..hit detection has little to do with it. I hit targets when they're strafing all the time. The strafe adds flair and enjoyment to this game that is missing in other shooters. Tuesday morning at approximately 10:30am EST-we played against you, Arirana was on your team. i and my son had him in a 15meter "angled" kill box and little damage was dealt, 2x HMG vs a dancer. Not my aim, definitely not my 17yrd olds thumbs, not my fiber optic network. Dorms, apartments, public housing, condo's, microwave, wifi broadband, satellite internet are all issues nevermind the Brazilians on your team and 2 japanese--and CCP is obtuse. How does he die then? You guys just couldn't believe that you couldn't hit him and blame it on strafe. I do it sometimes too....sometimes hit detection is seems wierd in this game but not because of strafe. A player could be standing still and it'll seem like bullets aren't registering. > Check RND out here
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3229	Posted - 2014.12.04 09:12:00 - [394] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I am so late to this thread.... I'm curious though....why are people so afraid of strafe? People miss their targets..hit detection has little to do with it. I hit targets when they're strafing all the time. The strafe adds flair and enjoyment to this game that is missing in other shooters. The problem is not the strafe itself Ydubbs, it is that the hitbox is lagging around when you are strafing too fast. Hence strafing is not done only to throw off your opponents aim, it is also used (exploited) to glitch your hit detection. EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 64	Posted - 2014.12.04 10:54:00 - [395] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: GLOBAL fils'de RAGE wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I am so late to this thread.... I'm curious though....why are people so afraid of strafe? People miss their targets..hit detection has little to do with it. I hit targets when they're strafing all the time. The strafe adds flair and enjoyment to this game that is missing in other shooters. Tuesday morning at approximately 10:30am EST-we played against you, Arirana was on your team. i and my son had him in a 15meter "angled" kill box and little damage was dealt, 2x HMG vs a dancer. Not my aim, definitely not my 17yrd olds thumbs, not my fiber optic network. Dorms, apartments, public housing, condo's, microwave, wifi broadband, satellite internet are all issues nevermind the Brazilians on your team and 2 japanese--and CCP is obtuse. How does he die then? You guys just couldn't believe that you couldn't hit him and blame it on strafe. I do it sometimes too....sometimes hit detection is seems wierd in this game but not because of strafe. A player could be standing still and it'll seem like bullets aren't registering. he went 37@2, i killed him once running in a straight line away from me and the other he was standing still. can't lag running away nor standing still. there are so many L33T laggers it's trully laughable.
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 64	Posted - 2014.12.04 11:07:00 - [396] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I am so late to this thread.... I'm curious though....why are people so afraid of strafe? People miss their targets..hit detection has little to do with it. I hit targets when they're strafing all the time. The strafe adds flair and enjoyment to this game that is missing in other shooters. The problem is not the strafe itself Ydubbs, it is that the hitbox is lagging around when you are strafing too fast. Hence strafing is not done only to throw off your opponents aim, it is also used (exploited) to glitch your hit detection. i'll add that if you are already in latency, that strafing denies hit detection.
Varoth Drac Titans of Phoenix 450	Posted - 2014.12.04 12:37:00 - [397] - Quote Can I just reiterate that I don't like the idea of giving shields any movement penalties. It muddies the distinction between armour and shields. The current system makes sense, it's easy for new players to understand, it's easy for players from EVE to understand. Shields need different penalties. They already have a regen penalty, perhaps this just isn't enough. If we are saying the problem is scouts, wouldn't it be simpler to just add scout-only penalties. Scouts have naturally very good shield regen. Why don't we do this: On a scout suit or light frame only: Complex shield extenders have a 20% shield regen penalty per extender. Enhanced = 15% penalty Basic = 10% penalty On top of the current penalty. Something similar can be given to armour, scout/light suit only: Armour plate speed penalty: Complex = 15% Enhanced = 10% Basic = 8% Ferroscale = 1/2/3% Reactive = 3/4/5%
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 964	Posted - 2014.12.04 13:13:00 - [398] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: The strafe adds flair and enjoyment to this game that is missing in other shooters. strafe =/= wigglewiggle Deliberate evasive movements like strafe and counterstrafe require thought and effort.
Mobius Wyvern Sky-FIRE 5484	Posted - 2014.12.04 14:06:00 - [399] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP. The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all. This is quite blunt, but it's been a long time coming. Extenders and Armor Plates are obviously the focus here, and Reactives and Ferroscales may be omitted in the first pass. P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small. I'm sure someone may have mentioned this already, but might it be possible to have Shield Extenders in this game have the same penalty they do in EVE, now that Passive Scanning mechanics are being adjusted? Say that instead of just a depleted recharge delay that can be countered entirely with a single ADV Shield Regulator, that there was also a 4% bonus to suit Scan Profile. It would again serve as a way to encourage shield tankers to do something other than stack Ferroscale Plates or Kinetic mods in their lows. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Mike Ox Bigger KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 609	Posted - 2014.12.04 15:54:00 - [400] - Quote Just giving you my two cents: Shield tanking already sucks compared to Armor as they have hives and rep tools. Please don't screw us even more by making us have a movement penalty. The delay penalty is already enough. If anything you should be trying to find a way to make shields better as current PC battles have pretty much no shield tankers on the battlefield. It's usually ak0 heavies with logis, the occasional gk0/ak0 assault and some scouts. I smoke two joints before I smoke two joints, then I smoke two more.

Pocket Rocket Girl Psygod9 105	Posted - 2014.12.04 16:04:00 - [401] - Quote i think that shields should increase scan profile, just like armor with slowing movement The Little Girl with the HMG
DEATH THE KlD Harem. King 69	Posted - 2014.12.04 19:54:00 - [402] - Quote I can understand this for scouts but if you do decide to do it to all of them it will be nerfing the cal assault. Even Min slightly, let's face it assaults have been one of the worst slaying suits since beta. For scouts I'd have no problem with this, aslong as not too big of a penalty. Shields are fast, they can not be repped like armor, if you're shot once your shields stop recharging armor keeps repping. I could go on but I think I've made a decent point. Also I run both shields and armor but usually armor.
Greiv Rabbah 13Art of War13 33	Posted - 2014.12.04 19:56:00 - [403] - Quote Mike Ox Bigger wrote: Just giving you my two cents: Shield tanking already sucks compared to Armor as they have hives and rep tools. Please don't screw us even more by making us have a movement penalty. The delay penalty is already enough. If anything you should be trying to find a way to make shields better as current PC battles have pretty much no shield tankers on the battlefield. It's usually ak0 heavies with logis, the occasional gk0/ak0 assault and some scouts. This is true about hives and rep tools. To maintain continuity, handheld shield boosters should be added or triage hives(wyirkomi not allotek) should rep shield instead of armor. Allotek hives should still rep armor bc why would allotek make something that benefits the caldari and harms the gallente. But since triage hives boosting shields would cause problems of: heavy stands on hive with logi and rep tool attached, never takes damage again; I would shy away from that. Delay between switching equipment opens a reasonable vulnerability: shields down, get under cover while logi swaps to rep tool. Battle going well? Armor full? Pull that shield bbooster back out and let's push hard! Could change the dynamic of the heavy/logi team. I also think shield extenders increasing scan profile makes more sense and combats calscout opness. I think all modules and weapons and equipment should affect strafe speed though. Also movement speed. Also turn speed. Also jump height. I'd be satisfied starting with armor and shield, though.
Bremen van Equis BASTARDS OF BEDLAM 37	Posted - 2014.12.05 14:19:00 - [404] - Quote Cass Caul wrote: I like how the only way to get people to use myos is to make them do something completely unrelated to melee damage Makes sense to me. If you're gonna go in for some up close and personal wet work, you should be able to dance like Mohammed Ali! Float like a dragonfly, sting like a bee Look! Up in the sky!! It's a bird...it's a plane...it's...
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1001	Posted - 2014.12.05 15:04:00 - [405] - Quote Bremen van Equis wrote: Cass Caul wrote: I like how the only way to get people to use myos is to make them do something completely unrelated to melee damage Makes sense to me. + Climb Ladders Faster + Throw Grenades Further + Swing / Recover Knives Faster + Raise / Swap Weapons Faster + Reduce Weapon Kick / Sway
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1296	Posted - 2014.12.05 23:52:00 - [406] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Bremen van Equis wrote: Cass Caul wrote: I like how the only way to get people to use myos is to make them do something completely unrelated to melee damage Makes sense to me. + Climb Ladders Faster + Throw Grenades Further + Reduce Weapon Kick / Sway + Swing / Recover Knives Faster i like the ladders and weapon kick stuff. useful for a gallente on the go with a railgun. and we dont have any high slot items except damage mods to use. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 900	Posted - 2014.12.06 03:34:00 - [407] - Quote The more I think about it, the more I realize that nerfing movement is the correct solution to bad netcode. If you can't move, the network prediction has nothing to predict! I also think that removing ISK from the game is the solution to proto stomping. If there's no ISK then how can anyone buy Proto. SIMPLE! BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 283	Posted - 2014.12.06 10:54:00 - [408] - Quote I also think that removing skill from the game is the solution to dust! Without skill this is just COD! SIMPLE! "If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014
Jotun Izalaru Goonfeet 237	Posted - 2014.12.08 08:37:00 - [409] - Quote oh no, if i'm expected to do more than jiggle a stick back and forth i'll be helpless i better defend the honor of ~true skill~ stick wiggling gameplay as childishly as possible
poison Diego Titans of Phoenix 521	Posted - 2014.12.08 13:45:00 - [410] - Quote KA24DERT wrote: The more I think about it, the more I realize that nerfing movement is the correct solution to bad netcode. If you can't move, the network prediction has nothing to predict! I also think that removing ISK from the game is the solution to proto stomping. If there's no ISK then how can anyone buy Proto. SIMPLE! There isnt supposed to be any solution to protostomping. Either sit there and take it or get rich yourself. Mín trú Nýja Eden er bara byrjunin.

NextDark Knight Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 687	Posted - 2014.12.08 14:24:00 - [411] - Quote So wait, I didn't see this in the patch notes.. This actually made it into the game? Seriously Cadari and Minitar needs some better representation in this game. More armor users.. so make shields more like armor? Just mind blowing some of the things that people think are good ideas on the game. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about fixing things but **** you guys add a barrage of Flux orbitals to the game and give a huge nerf to shields? Over 60+ Million SP and full proto in all Caldari Suits. Dust just won't die on PS3/Xbox. Dustin since 6/29/2012
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6432	Posted - 2014.12.08 21:45:00 - [412] - Quote NextDark Knight wrote: So wait, I didn't see this in the patch notes.. This actually made it into the game? Seriously Cadari and Minitar needs some better representation in this game. More armor users.. so make shields more like armor? Just mind blowing some of the things that people think are good ideas on the game. Don't get me wrong, I'm all about fixing things but **** you guys add a barrage of Flux orbitals to the game and give a huge nerf to shields? If it is not in the patch notes then it probably isn't going to be put in yet. I doubt they would stealth deploy something like this. They may still be looking at fine tuning the changes before they put it in, or have decided now is not the right time. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
KA24DERT TeamPlayers Negative-Feedback 907	Posted - 2014.12.08 23:16:00 - [413] - Quote Jotun Izalaru wrote: oh no, if i'm expected to do more than jiggle a stick back and forth i'll be helpless i better defend the honor of ~true skill~ stick wiggling gameplay as childishly as possible 1000% Agree A++++ Please support my anti-strafing thread: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=182627 BAN ADVANCED GEAR FROM PUBS \| Mass Driver Advocate


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"If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014

"If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014

"If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014

KDR - Kill Die Repeat

"If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014

"If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014

"If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014