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Sticky:[Feedback] HP Modules and Strafe Speed

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1242	Posted - 2014.11.20 05:51:00 - [1] - Quote extenders have no penalties in eve, they should have no penalties here, this is the dumbest thing ive ever heard, i dont even use shields. theyre completely broken cause they dont rep passively. strafing is a skill. why are we trying to nerf it. if anything there needs to be an inertia modifier which eve has. why are we doing things that arent in eve. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1242	Posted - 2014.11.20 05:55:00 - [2] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Shield Extenders should not decrease speed. What should happen instead is Caldari suits move slower in general similar to how it is in EVE. Not Amarr slow but the way speed works in EVE is: Minmatar, Gallente, Caldari, Amarr. Currently it's like this but Caldari and Gallente are the same speed. So what if we simply buff Gallente and leave Caldari where they are? That could also work and is a lot better than slowing them down anymore. Barely anymore Movement speed but a focus on Sprint speed. Have it very ambush oriented. That idea is a lot better in fact, but one thing is for sure that shield extenders should absolutely not ever slow you down when it comes to speed. this. all suits should already have different base speeds based on race. but gallente arent ambushers, unless you mean caldari. gallente are run straight at you head on'ers. i swear who comes up with these ideas. we need to pitch in and buy a month long subscription and teach them how eve works. the depleted regen delay penalty is already wrong enough and needs to go. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1242	Posted - 2014.11.20 06:10:00 - [3] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: Shield Extenders should not decrease speed. What should happen instead is Caldari suits move slower in general similar to how it is in EVE. Not Amarr slow but the way speed works in EVE is: Minmatar, Gallente, Caldari, Amarr. Currently it's like this but Caldari and Gallente are the same speed. So what if we simply buff Gallente and leave Caldari where they are? That could also work and is a lot better than slowing them down anymore. Barely anymore Movement speed but a focus on Sprint speed. Have it very ambush oriented. That idea is a lot better in fact, but one thing is for sure that shield extenders should absolutely not ever slow you down when it comes to speed. this. all suits should already have different base speeds based on race. but gallente arent ambushers, unless you mean caldari. gallente are run straight at you head on'ers. i swear who comes up with these ideas. we need to pitch in and buy a month long subscription and teach them how eve works. the depleted regen delay penalty is already wrong enough and needs to go. Well things can be slightly different on the ground than in DUST. Yeah, in EVE we can be straight in and gun but in space there is also no cover to utilize like you would in EVE. We also do not have the choice to use railguns and drones. Whilst in DUST, we are stuck in close range with no utilization of long range weapons (besides the plasma cannon that can hit about 200 meters out ) I also play EVE btw and in fact I'm providing Orbital Support for Gallente FW and headed for Esesier right now. i think its the devs who dont play or theyd know stuff like this. and i still use railguns on my gal suit. thats what i did in eve and i went 100% rails when they came out in dust. ive been saying for a year now they need to fix the bonuses so gal can use rails with bonuses. and cal can use blasters with bonuses. its another idiosyncrasy with dust. we need eve parity if we want balance. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1242	Posted - 2014.11.20 06:16:00 - [4] - Quote Meeko Fent wrote: Can we stop applying EVELogic to DUST? Please? I'm sure the Army's strategy and gear it uses is different in use and philosophy then The navy. Infantry troops and tanks=/= Battleships. no. look in the top left corner. this is eve:dust 514. same rules. same logic. same universe. same lore. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1244	Posted - 2014.11.20 06:31:00 - [5] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: Meeko Fent wrote: Can we stop applying EVELogic to DUST? Please? I'm sure the Army's strategy and gear it uses is different in use and philosophy then The navy. Infantry troops and tanks=/= Battleships. no. look in the top left corner. this is eve:dust 514. same rules. same logic. same universe. same lore. It's Meeko's kind of Comments are what make me facepalm hard. the worst comment ive seen is some newberry saying hes never played eve and doesnt care about it because its probably some stupid game and doesnt have anything to do with dust and that dust should be balanced completely seperate of eve. i about put my head through the computer screen and if im being honest i almost filed a ticket requesting he be banned. i lingered over the send button longer than i care to admit before i closed the window without sending it. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1244	Posted - 2014.11.20 06:41:00 - [6] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: It's impractical to apply every feature to a FPS that you have in a point and click MMO. We are going to have to break tradition a LITTLE or the game will be impossible. TLDR (because that may be too long to read); Apply lore when you can. Ignore lore when you can't. its not impractical its integeral. btw dust is supposed to be an 'mmo'fps eve has established mechanics that work. dust is the same game as eve. eves mechanics should apply everywhere. as long as the numbers are right everything needs to be on par with eve. the only difference between dust and eve is that eve has 8 guns instead of 1. thats a fair trade off when we can control the 1. everything else is 100% applicable and required to be present for this game to be a part of new eden. otherwise change the name, cut out all the descriptions and words linking it to eve. and just call it call of warfare dutyfield. new eden has rules and standards that must be followed. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1244	Posted - 2014.11.20 06:45:00 - [7] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: This discussion is honestly reminding me of the multi-thread multi-page battles we had back in the Mordu's forums. I think one of the punchlines from those bone-crushing forum battles was realistic physics is nice but it messes with what many peeps expect from an FPS. Personally i love torque and rotational inertia, but that kind of realism sucks for kb/m players. It's not a matter of right or wrong it's a question of what do we want the game to be? Right at the core of that question lies strafing/bunnyhopping and gungame. Some need it to make the game have any meaning at all as a competitive shooter, some despise it as unrealistic and ridiculous. It's a fundamental culture clash that can't be resolved to everyones' satisfaction. But strafing/gungame does require genuine player skill. Anybody who can't admit this is in deep denial. DUST, because it is designed as an asymmetric shooter with passive skills and tiered gear, only serves to further exacerbate the culture clash between these groups. Forget the lore and rationalizations. Rattai is proposing a tradeoff: more ehp means less strafe, end of story. Is this acceptable? For me the answer is yes, so long as the effect isn't too big. its acceptable for armor plates and reactives but i dont like it. its unacceptable for ferroscales or extenders. its just not how new eden works. this is only an issue because light suits can stack the same health mods as a medium or heavy suit while retaining higher speed. ideally theyd have their own subdivision of light plates. just as frigates do. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1259	Posted - 2014.11.21 08:47:00 - [8] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Gonna say it again. 1. Double the penalties for stacking health on light frames. 2. Change shield extender penalty to a scan profile penalty. 3. Add in a "ferroscale" shield extender with less HP but no profile penalty for CalScouts. this is the best one ive seen so far. apart from my own of just reactives and plates. shields should have no penalty to motion ever. otherwise this isnt new eden anymore. overall its a bad enough idea already. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1259	Posted - 2014.11.21 09:19:00 - [9] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: It seems to me the strafe speed penalty is trying to fix 4 things at the same time. Heavy dominance. Scout dominance. HP stacking dominance. Bandaid for poor hit detection. I think it won't be that easy, Rattati. Please scrap this idea and come up with individual and more effective fixes. And guys, stop demanding a profile penalty for shield extenders if you yourself don't even care about EWAR. EWAR is complex enough already even without more modules messing with it. Also, HP stacking suits would not care about this penalty anyway. if hes going to add a penalty to shields. it has to sig radius. thats literally the only option in new eden for it to be. if he wants to bring ccp iceland into this and make a neweden wide change thatd be fine. when a shield extender adds a movement penalty on drakes and ravens and such and eve online players are okay with it and ccp iceland has it balance. we can add it here. otherwise no. shield extenders do not have a movement penalty in new eden. i havent seen anyone demanding profile penalties on the extender. its just the only alternative. he cant put a movement penalty on the shield extender or ferroscale because thats not how it is in eve. theres too much with the game thats not correct new eden wise as is. we cant afford to start straying from the path again like they did with logis and tanking as they already have. im not demanding a profile penalty on shield extenders. but if theres going to be a penalty added. it HAS to be profile or whatever else could be considered sig radius. not movement or strafing. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1259	Posted - 2014.11.21 09:24:00 - [10] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. if they added mass here they would need to add mass in eve also. Tthis is the same game in the same universe. the only two acceptable mods to affect strafe are plates, and reactives since they already affect movement as they do in eve. well reactives dont since they dont exist in eve because of the passive rep stuff but thats for armor reworking as a whole and thats not the topic really so we dont need to worry about that now. these are the shield extenders of eve. i dont see any that add any form of mass or movement penalty to the ships. so why should they here in dust? since dust is eve on the ground? here are the ferroscales. https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Item_Database:Ship_Equipment:Hull_&_Armor_:Layered_Plating again no penalties. also what happens for the minmatar who are supposed to dual tank? extremely slowing? theyre are supposed to be the fastest ships. why cant we just introduce light armor and light shield extenders like eve has for frigates and use them for light suits. medium applys now as medium. and then give large extenders and plates and like to heavys. thats a lore appropriate way that stops non minmatar brick tanks and light suits from being to good. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.

Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1259	Posted - 2014.11.21 09:33:00 - [11] - Quote IZI doro wrote: Would it be acceptable to increase movement dispersion so as to make it garbage to "run-n-gun" with a light weapon? It would obviously force more shotgun, mass driver and sidearm play, or at least make us go into ADS more often to achieve any accuracy. Instead of two-stepping while laying on the trigger, make us actually line up shots and shoot in a controlled manner. I know our dropsuits have fire-assistance protocols, but that should only do so much when firing from the hip. i strafe while im ads. would that be affected? Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1259	Posted - 2014.11.21 09:37:00 - [12] - Quote Apothecary Za'ki wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP. The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all. This is quite blunt, but it's been a long time coming. Extenders and Armor Plates are obviously the focus here, and Reactives and Ferroscales may be omitted in the first pass. P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small. do you even play eve? useing shield extenders makes you easier to hit.. so insted of speed nerfs just a x% increase to hitbox per modual fitted.. and make it only for scouts as commando/sentinel are already HUGE.. and mediums are in a good place. this is the 2nd obsurd idea of yours, first being that of the bandwidth.. in regard to bandwidth i would leave that on the back burner till we have played around with the NEW ORBITALS and seen how they effect the matches and areas of equipment over saturation.. which wont be a problem and may be useful in conjunction with the 150m range active scanner+ECM orbitals.. CHANGE TOO MUCH TOO SOON AND YOU KILL THE GAME take a leaf out of the eve devs book and just do smaller changes see how community reacts, and THEN move to next phase IF its still needed. we need to pitch in and buy them a few plexes and teach them how to play or get some ccp iceland people in here. if they did play eve we wouldnt be having this discussion right now. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1259	Posted - 2014.11.21 09:49:00 - [13] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: The EVE analogy is BS. The only choice we have is passive tanking because if you try to active shield tank a suit in DUST you are DEAD. Same for active armor tanking. Also there are no resistence modules or anything like that. I'm not an EVE player but I damn sure know that in EVE your tanking is not limited to either stack a ** ton of shield or stack a ton of armor. Sure you can go ahead and make extenders give me a larger hitbox, if you give me a module that reduces my shield recharge delay to 0, I'd be ok with that. thats something weve been trying to change for a long time. this is eve online with a bunch of broken missing mechanics. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else**.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1259	Posted - 2014.11.21 09:54:00 - [14] - Quote NIETZCHES OVERMAN wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. My question would be, "do you even strafe bro?"; seriously man. You do realize that the shield recharge delay penalty for stacking extenders was introduced to deal with this issue, right? How will that fact be dealt with? Also what data suggests this extra penalty is needed? Also currently armor tankers can duck their penalty by using ferroscale as I often do, will their be an equivalent for shields? Consider please that good strafe is part of the game and you should view it as a defensive skill you learn with your left thumb while shooting is an offensive skill you learn with your right. If you are looking for way to further penalise dual tanking my next question would be why? Let it go. Why do you find it necessary to influence our builds. Everyone has the same choices, why care if someone sacrifices speed or regen for hp, which they do. Personally I dont see why you dont go in the opposite direction and remove both shield and armor stacking penalties we have currently and leave it alone. The real question we need to know is are you trying to punish dual tanking or strafe???? If its dual tanking then find another way if you must have a say in our builds, if its strafe then you are just messing up one of the good parts. Dual tanking is bad is Eve lore fan boy nonsense, its irrelevant to your current customer base. dual tankings only bad if your not using a minmatar suit. it only exists because the rest of the tanking styles from the other races are partially missing, mods are missing and mods are in the wrong slots. example: if kincats and card regs were in the high slots (where they belong) you wouldnt see gal suits or amarr suits with shields an and no because most people came to this game because they played eve. whether they stayed or not after playing it is another thing entirely. its absolutely relevant. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1262	Posted - 2014.11.21 14:08:00 - [15] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: dual tankings only bad if your not using a minmatar suit. it only exists because the rest of the tanking styles from the other races are partially missing, mods are missing and mods are in the wrong slots. example: if kincats and card regs were in the high slots (where they belong) you wouldnt see gal suits or amarr suits with shields and no because most people who initially bought into this game were people who played eve and knew about this games existence years before it even came out. its absolutely relevant. im also defending strafing in this thread. because the idea hes proposing as a nerf to shields and some of the armor plates is wrong eve wise anyway. ^^this I agree wholeheartedly and have been fighting this same fight since Mordu's. Only part I don't agree with is about strafing, if it were curbstomped into oblivion, I wouldn't care and wouldn't miss it. I'm just sick of games like cod and to a lesser extent battlefield were there's no way to defend yourself once your shot. Whoever spots the other person first wins. Strafing is retro, not many games do it anymore. It's not like dust has lots of cover or third person mechanics. back in the olden days when you didn't have cover everywhere you had to strafe. I think that applys to dust. It's the only real way to stand toe to toe apart from brick taking a sentinel and waddling around like a duck or dropping a bunch of repping nanohives under someone. Which aren't better alternatives. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1262	Posted - 2014.11.21 14:36:00 - [16] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: ROMULUS H3X wrote: Cass Caul wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Kain Spero wrote: If this is implemented I do think that should modify KinCats to buff strafe speed. or myofibs ;) I like how the only way to get people to use myos is to make them do something completely unrelated to melee damage I fail to see how Melee damage and reaction speed are unrelated.. From what I understand... when someone is in better shape their muscles are much more reactive and stronger allowing for someone to contract their muscles faster. This allows a stronger punch and fast reaction time when dodging bullet rounds..... Really, where does the term "musclebound" come from then? well flexibility if i had to guess. ever see a bodybuilder scratch his own back? no you havent lol Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1276	Posted - 2014.11.24 01:36:00 - [17] - Quote JIAF-PR wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: You can find a guide like that for every single FPS ever made going back to DOOM. What FPSs have you played that didn't include strafing? I've been playing some Doom multiplayer recently, and I must say half of these whiners would probably have three aneurysms and lose bowel control over the incredible speed of that game. Shooters have gotten slower and slower to appeal to the casual and casualer. If CCP *EVER* wants to make a trailer LIKE THIS for Dust/Legion, they need to start making some hard choices about who this game is going to revolve around in the future. Balance the PvP portion of the game around fun, sound, and proven notions of competitive FPS games, improve PvP support roles for those who can't slay, and introduce PvE activities for everyone else who can't/won't cut it. Excellent trailer Made me want to play Eve and I don't like it. if you dont like eve why are you playing dust? this is just eve on the planet surfaces. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1276	Posted - 2014.11.24 02:00:00 - [18] - Quote JIAF-PR wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: JIAF-PR wrote: KA24DERT wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: You can find a guide like that for every single FPS ever made going back to DOOM. What FPSs have you played that didn't include strafing? I've been playing some Doom multiplayer recently, and I must say half of these whiners would probably have three aneurysms and lose bowel control over the incredible speed of that game. Shooters have gotten slower and slower to appeal to the casual and casualer. If CCP *EVER* wants to make a trailer LIKE THIS for Dust/Legion, they need to start making some hard choices about who this game is going to revolve around in the future. Balance the PvP portion of the game around fun, sound, and proven notions of competitive FPS games, improve PvP support roles for those who can't slay, and introduce PvE activities for everyone else who can't/won't cut it. Excellent trailer Made me want to play Eve and I don't like it. if you dont like eve why are you playing dust? this is just eve on the planet surfaces. Dust is a FPS, I never like the spaceships games; is the tipe of game not the story of the game. dust is only the fps version of eve online. you are playing eve right now. read the title of the game EVE dust 514. not dust 514 standalone fps. this is new eden. above your head is eve online. same universe. there are spaceships in dust. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1291	Posted - 2014.12.02 20:00:00 - [19] - Quote True Adamance wrote: poison Diego wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Dear Players, So pretty much guys, we are killing every other scout than the caldari Caldari is gonna be the way to go... wait... does CCP favourite the Caldari? What a revelation.. Y'know I'd never have guessed the race with the highest allocation of content and prominence in trailers, screenshots, and media would have been CCP's favourite! the poor underrated jove. ccp should be jove only so theres no bias. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1296	Posted - 2014.12.05 23:52:00 - [20] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Bremen van Equis wrote: Cass Caul wrote: I like how the only way to get people to use myos is to make them do something completely unrelated to melee damage Makes sense to me. + Climb Ladders Faster + Throw Grenades Further + Reduce Weapon Kick / Sway + Swing / Recover Knives Faster i like the ladders and weapon kick stuff. useful for a gallente on the go with a railgun. and we dont have any high slot items except damage mods to use. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.