DUST Search - Sticky:[Feedback] HP Modules and Strafe Speed

Alaika Arbosa wrote:

Vitantur Nothus wrote:

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

Armor plates should have a strafe penalty.
Shield extenders should have a signature profile penalty. I recall in your EWAR thread you suggested giving HP modules a dampening penalty.

Neither shields nor armor should have both of these penalties. Shields and armor should have important differences that makes one preferably for one type of playstyle than others, giving them both the same penalties diminishes their differences, and thus diminishes gameplay diversity.

There is but one small problem with this particular drawback. Perhaps two.

There can be no question that the CalScout's hitbox is imbued with special magics. On paper, the MinScout is the superior strafer; in game, however, his best effort at bulletweaving cannot touch the proficiency five gyrations of the CalScout.

The CalScout - Slap on a couple Reactives, add a Fine Rifle and become Saxonmish vs Noobs.
The MinScout - Better run straight damps in your lows if you ever want to stab anything.

So if and when we add the Sig Penalty to shield extenders, which will be most affected? Will it be the struggling and perpetually squishy MinScout? Or will it be the best wiggle-wiggler Assault Lite has to offer?

PS: In all seriousness, I don't know how we can fix CalScout Assault Lite without detrimentally impacting the MinScout. Very much open to ideas and suggestions.

Encourage people to stop tanking their Scout in any fashion aside from Sig Tanking.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 483	Posted - 2014.11.20 16:31:00 - [1] - Quote Vrain Matari wrote: Whether one likes skill-based strafing gunplay is a different question. Which of the following more aptly describes the state of strafing in Dust 514? A) Moving deliberately in attempt to throw an opponent's aim. B) Spraying frantically while mashing ADAD or wiggling thumb.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 492	Posted - 2014.11.20 19:26:00 - [2] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Armor plates should have a strafe penalty. Shield extenders should have a signature profile penalty. I recall in your EWAR thread you suggested giving HP modules a dampening penalty. Neither shields nor armor should have both of these penalties. Shields and armor should have important differences that makes one preferably for one type of playstyle than others, giving them both the same penalties diminishes their differences, and thus diminishes gameplay diversity. There is but one small problem with this particular drawback. Perhaps two. There can be no question that the CalScout's hitbox is imbued with special magics. On paper, the MinScout is the superior strafer; in game, his moves cannot touch the almighty gyrations of the CalScout. The CalScout - Slap on a couple Reactives, add a Fine Rifle and become Saxonmish vs Noobs. The MinScout - Better run straight damps in your lows if you ever want to stab anything. If we add the Sig Penalty to shield extenders, which of the above will be hurt? Will it be the struggling MinScout? Or will it be the best wiggle-wiggler in the game?
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 495	Posted - 2014.11.20 20:27:00 - [3] - Quote Alaika Arbosa wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Armor plates should have a strafe penalty. Shield extenders should have a signature profile penalty. I recall in your EWAR thread you suggested giving HP modules a dampening penalty. Neither shields nor armor should have both of these penalties. Shields and armor should have important differences that makes one preferably for one type of playstyle than others, giving them both the same penalties diminishes their differences, and thus diminishes gameplay diversity. There is but one small problem with this particular drawback. Perhaps two. There can be no question that the CalScout's hitbox is imbued with special magics. On paper, the MinScout is the superior strafer; in game, however, his best effort at bulletweaving cannot touch the proficiency five gyrations of the CalScout. The CalScout - Slap on a couple Reactives, add a Fine Rifle and become Saxonmish vs Noobs. The MinScout - Better run straight damps in your lows if you ever want to stab anything. So if and when we add the Sig Penalty to shield extenders, which will be most affected? Will it be the struggling and perpetually squishy MinScout? Or will it be the best wiggle-wiggler Assault Lite has to offer? PS: In all seriousness, I don't know how we can fix CalScout Assault Lite without detrimentally impacting the MinScout. Very much open to ideas and suggestions. Encourage people to stop tanking their Scout in any fashion aside from Sig Tanking. Looking around, I see 1000HP on Adv Meds, even more HP on Heavies, and don't get me started on HMG Heavy Blob nonsense. I gotta say, it doesn't look like we'll have very good odds of successful takedown running without shield buffer. But I'm all for giving it a go. If it can work, we'll make it work. But if it doesn't work, Scouts will be back here asking for sharper tools and a fair shake.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 505	Posted - 2014.11.21 03:15:00 - [4] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: hfderrtgvcd wrote: The only reason cal scouts seem overpowered is because of hit box issues. There's no need to destroy an entire tanking style because one suit has a broken hit box. how long have we been telling CCP the scout hit boxes are stupid? how long have they said basically that theyre are working as intended? The CalScout hitbox isn't stupid or broken. It is magical.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 514	Posted - 2014.11.21 18:09:00 - [5] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Personally I don't like the idea of shields reducing movement, it doesn't seem to make sense. I agree they should have a penalty to reduce the effectiveness of shield stacked Caldari scouts. Exactly what penalty, I'm not sure. Scout only regen reduction, gets worse with tier? it should increase their scan profile. cal scouts dont need to hide anyways when they can see you coming Slap a couple ferro or reactive plates on a shield-tanked CalScout, and you have the very best Super Strafe Scout in the game. Stand toe-to-toe with Assaults with twice your HP. Slug it out, wiggle-wiggle and win. Broken hitbox or not, if there's a single Super Strafe Scout who has earned a rightful nerf, it is this guy. And do you really think he cares about his scan profile? Again, low-HP MinScouts running double and triple damps suffer. Assault Lite walks away unscathed. I don't have the answer, but I don't think that Sig Penalty is going to fix the guys who need fixin'.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 517	Posted - 2014.11.21 19:28:00 - [6] - Quote Why not? Strafe 90% of base movement ---> 80% of base movement (demotes the wiggle) Backpedal 100% of base movement ---> 90% of base movement (demotes the heavy) Regular Plates +2% movement penalty (discourages stacking; demotes King HP) Light Plates +1% movement penalty (discourages stacking; demotes super strafer) All Shields +3% shield recharge delay (discourages stacking; promotes regulators)
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 522	Posted - 2014.11.21 21:32:00 - [7] - Quote jace silencerww wrote: I like it. how about the shield delay to both recharge when partly & depleted being the same & scan profile goes up? I believe Sig Penalties would do more harm than good; I'm hoping Rattati finds another way.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 541	Posted - 2014.11.22 02:52:00 - [8] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: jace silencerww wrote: I like it. how about the shield delay to both recharge when partly & depleted being the same & scan profile goes up? I am of the opinion that Sig Penalties on Shield Extenders would do more harm than good; hoping Rattati finds another way. Why? 1. Sig Penalty poses a direct threat to Minmatar Scout viability. 2. Sig Penalty destabilizes intra-class balance among Scouts. 3. Sig Penalty devalues MedFrame EWAR module investment (we should be doing the opposite). 4. Sig Penalty does not constitute a meaningful drawback to its intended target (Assault Lite). 5. Sig Penalty will have little-if-any affect on predominant loadout meta (HP stacking / King HP). I've had a few margaritas, Cat, and I expect that these five points will make infinitely less sense when I read them tomorrow. Let me know if I need elaborate or illustrate.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 541	Posted - 2014.11.22 03:36:00 - [9] - Quote jace silencerww wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: jace silencerww wrote: I like it. how about the shield delay to both recharge when partly & depleted being the same & scan profile goes up? I am of the opinion that Sig Penalties on Shield Extenders would do more harm than good; hoping Rattati finds another way. not a lot so maybe on complex shields 4% adv 3% and basic 2% each shield. the only scout that will hurt is the minnie The only Scout who needn't be hurt is the Minnie.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 568	Posted - 2014.11.22 04:47:00 - [10] - Quote I'm under the impression that Scout bonuses are being rewired to point to efficacy. Not sure if that changes your position or not, but it seems very likely.

Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 581	Posted - 2014.11.22 18:44:00 - [11] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection... Jebus would be thrilled.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 609	Posted - 2014.11.23 18:30:00 - [12] - Quote wiggles =/= strafe anti-wiggles =/= anti-strafe
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 765	Posted - 2014.11.28 11:53:00 - [13] - Quote Funkmaster Whale wrote: Sentinels are barely existent in Ambush where engagements widely vary terrain. ^ Either balderdash or ambiguous sentence structure. Indoor Ambush maps are 50% or better Fatty+HMG roughly 100% of the time. Breakin Stuff wrote: Funkmaster Whale wrote: There's honestly nothing OP about Sentinels right now. the fact that you can type this and come off sincerely is amazing and frightening. teach me this secret so I can troll better. Also, this. Lol
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 789	Posted - 2014.11.30 00:59:00 - [14] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Caldari scout OPness, might someone say Just in case it hasn't been mentioned yet in this thread ... Efficacy rewiring will slap the CalScout two times. He'll no longer be able to benefit from his EWAR bonuses simultaneously, as both of this bonuses will be linked to low-slot modules (and he only has two). EWAR CalScouts will have to choose between strong Scan Range or strong Scan Profile. Assault Lite CalScouts will lose their native competency in both Profile and Range. With or without an additional nerf to Shield Extenders, CalScout OPness is in for a kick in the pants.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 803	Posted - 2014.11.30 18:54:00 - [15] - Quote Slave of MORTE wrote: When? Scout efficacy bonuses? Thinking soon ... 12 days ago, CCP Rattati wrote: I remember someone here converting the current scout ewar bonuses to module efficacy quid pro quo. I need that data nao , because of reasons. What better time to do that change now? Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2466381#post2466381 11 days ago, CCP Rattati wrote: ... Moving to ewar efficacy for scouts will then counter the high native ewar slayer scouts. Source: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2468612#post2468612
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 889	Posted - 2014.12.02 22:56:00 - [16] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Vrain Matari wrote: I think the troll here is you. that is entirely besides the point. Were it not for msp design heavily favoring CQC I would be pointing and laughing at the heavy QQ. But given what we have, if we cannot adjust the maps we need to adjust the dropsuits. Or we can take a whack at King HP by introducing significantly greater drawbacks to brick and the stacking of brick. This would encourage everyone (heavies included) to run modules other than brick atop more brick in their lows. Over 99.9% of all low slot module sales are brick-related. King HP is a universal problem, and universal problems are best solved with unilateral solutions. Let's shoot for drawbacks which will make brick-stacking less appealing for everyone. This is the only way to balance Low Slot Modules, and there's a chance we'll fix Heavies in the process.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 893	Posted - 2014.12.02 23:43:00 - [17] - Quote Conceptual Solution to King HP We introduce a new metric called "Brick Quotient" which behaves much like EQ Bandwidth. It is prescribed on a frame-by-frame basis, and it establishes a threshold beyond which mobility penalties are accrued. Next, we subject all movement metrics to influence by the Brick Quotient. This should include everything movement related, from backpedal speed to weapon-swap speed to the rate at which stamina drains when actions are performed. If an action involves merc movement, then that action is slowed as the merc's degree of encumbrance increases. Biotic Twist Myofibril Stimulant - Affects speed of arm-based motor movement, including weapon swap speed, weapon raise speed, ascend ladder speed, swing knife speed, etc. If Brick Quotient is exceeded, encumbrance penalties specific to arm-based movement can be partly offset using Myofibril Stimulants. Cardiac Regulator - Affects rate of stamina drain and cost of particular arm-based and leg-based motor movements, now including strafe and backpedal in addition to melee and sprint. If Brick Quotient is exceeded, encumbrance penalties specific to stamina cost and recovery can be partly offset using Cardiac Regulators. Kinetic Catalyzer - Affects speed of leg-based motor movement, including walk speed, rotation speed, backpedal speed, sprint speed, etc. If Brick Quotient is exceeded, encumbrance penalties specific to leg-based movement can be partly offset using Kinetic Catalyzers.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 909	Posted - 2014.12.03 13:45:00 - [18] - Quote Talon Paetznick II wrote: they arent dodging bullets they are simply exceeding the other players ability so track them maybe buff turn speed and you will see a more noticable difference (not for heavys though they have to have at least one achilles heel) You can buff your own turn speed using In Game Settings. Tab over to Sensitivity and crank it up.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 932	Posted - 2014.12.03 20:17:00 - [19] - Quote GLOBAL fils'de RAGE wrote: you need to look at this broken "dance dance party" ... it makes DUST look and play terrible. Dude, the dance dance party is player skill. How can you not take wigglewigglewiggle seriously?
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 964	Posted - 2014.12.04 13:13:00 - [20] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: The strafe adds flair and enjoyment to this game that is missing in other shooters. strafe =/= wigglewiggle Deliberate evasive movements like strafe and counterstrafe require thought and effort.

Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1001	Posted - 2014.12.05 15:04:00 - [21] - Quote Bremen van Equis wrote: Cass Caul wrote: I like how the only way to get people to use myos is to make them do something completely unrelated to melee damage Makes sense to me. + Climb Ladders Faster + Throw Grenades Further + Swing / Recover Knives Faster + Raise / Swap Weapons Faster + Reduce Weapon Kick / Sway