DUST Search - Sticky:[Feedback] HP Modules and Strafe Speed

Imp Smash wrote:

Meee One wrote:

Imp Smash wrote:

Funny you should mention that...because about an hour ago this was said.

Honestly if reptools were nerfed as far as either rep speed or time allowed for usage continually (I would go with the former to help protect guardian points and mass repairs after fights are over) AND maps were designed with a bit more battle doctrine in mind you would solve the heavy problem.

Pro rep tools on 3/4ths of logistics can't outrep a basic light weapon,and you want them nerfed more? Shocked

Yeah, I guess to be honest I think they should be weaker but I am unable to call nerf. There are several reasons and caveats to this:

1. On paper it sounds like the reptool isn't too crazy because, as you just said, a basic light weapon can out damage it. But let's be honest -- that is assuming ALL shots hit which is silly. It also ignores inherent regeneration the suit may have. Yes heavies take more damage from incoming fire than any other suit -- even so you can't expect a heavy to take EVERY shot (even though it is possible.) Your reptool buys him time to fire. And a heavy HMG does a lot of damage -- more so than any light weapon. Due to dispersion it won't be 800/900 DPS like so many people like to say, but it will still be higher than any light weapon. So the heavy has a bit more time to DPS and time to do that DPS is a larger gap for a heavy over any other suit because of the damage output.

Basically the proof is in the pudding. A heavy by him/herself is dangerous at close range but reasonably killable even toe to toe with an assault. But a heavy with a logi on the back will win over 90% of the time.

2. The reptool is free usage. Other games with repair mechanics do not give infinite reptool usage. Nor the sheer range. It's not just about Reps per second (RPS?) but also about the availability.

But as I said there are caveats.

If they made reptools rep a little slower their triage WPs should be boosted a little to compensate the Logi for the extra time spent repping a heavy. Basically the logi would get a tad more WP for it but be able to do it to less people in a given time frame thereby balancing out WP gain.

And I also don't think they should limit reptool usage. If you have 1 logi, 2 or 3 heavies, 5 or 6 assaults, and a scout or 2 that survive a fight defending a point that logi is going to have to rep ALL of them. Especially at lower rep rate that will cost time and time IS a resource.

Furthermore I think we will see Armor being able to absorb more damage in the future. This is just my guess as to the meta game and its next evolution mind you, but shield tanking and armor tanking are about to go through major changes that will either A. Make armor tanking WAY better than shield so more people go armor tank and that reptool will have more buffer HP to rep or B. Shield tanking will catch up to armor tanking and we will see more shield fits. Which will mean we see more guns that are better against shield than armor. Which will mean the armor you are repping will be taking more damage from armor weak/shield strong guns than currently.

At the same time, I am uncomfortable calling for a nerf of anything really. I may be horrendously wrong. What I deem an issue with reptools may NOT be an issue with reptools but in fact with something else. More to the point, I really don't know what to suggest to weaken the reptool slightly while still being fair. It may be the case that reptools are fine on other suits and only unbalanced on the heavy. I honestly don't know.

There is, however, no doubt in my mind that reptools are magnifying the heavy's advantages more than they magnify other suit's advantages.

EDIT: Actually scratch that. I just had a thought. What if Reptools repaired a percent of a suit's HP as opposed to a specific number? And that this number was specifc for each suit? Heavies get say (random number incomming) 6% of their HP back per second while assaults get 10% back per second? The commando gets back 8% The number could be whatever makes reptools more or less the same amount of rep for the various assaults while making them a tad less effective on heavies.

(random numbers chosen of course. the above edit is just brainstorming. feel free to shoot it down in a fiery ball.)

Regards.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1326	Posted - 2014.11.23 21:38:00 - [1] - Quote Just a thought. Increase assault strafe speed equally with their vertical speed decrease. Logis would favor back and forth (running away),while assaults would favor side-to-side(strafe duels). Or whatever. But IMHO a logistics speed buff has been a long time coming. Even if it is a small one. As for penalties,why not reduce them on suits meant for active fighting? Sents and assaults get much lower penalties as opposed to logistics and scouts. Sents and assault =.5 Logis and scouts = 1-2x If the logistics speed buff is sufficient,more logistics will try different options. But on the other hand...low base eHP and being OHK isn't exactly attractive either. This could potentially badly hurt the already gimped logistics. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1344	Posted - 2014.11.27 01:57:00 - [2] - Quote ROMULUS H3X wrote: Sequal Rise wrote: Can you explain why you think it will only affect scout and heavy suits? Why would medium suit wouldn't get hurt by such a change (or less than others)? And WHY reducing assault speed ??? Their speed in each race are PERFECT, changing them would be wrong, even a little bit. Seriously though I agree. The assault suits are fine with their current speeds, okay maybe just tone down my Minmatar Assault a degree or two... I'm sorry too many fotm chasers are flocking to my favorite assault suit because they realize they can speed, armor and shield tank all at once Which is probably contributing to the assault suit speed complaints. WELL I AM SORRY YOUR ARMOR TANKED SCOUT COULDN'T OUTRUN MY SPEED STACKED ASSAULT.. teardrop but the other assaults speeds NEED NOT BE TOUCHED.. and if you were to lower the speeds, give that extra armor to make up for that speed reductions...but i would rather keep that speed. IF you do NERF assault speed and BUFF Logistics speed, we all know what is going to be the next flavor of the WEEK. Slayer Logis for everyone! "Assault extra 160 eHP 8-9 slots isn't enough!" Really? Why assault speed should be reduced. And logistics buffed. It has 100 more eHP than basics,yet moves as fast as them. Logistics has 160 eHP less,yet is almost as fast as commandos (which have more eHP than assaults). Armor plates show that for more armor you always sacrifice speed. If you're afraid of being out ran,use some of those 8-9 slots for kincats,or cardiac regs. God knows your base eHP is high enough for it to have almost 0 negative drawbacks. Tl;dr It's called balance,armor for speed,and its been a long time coming. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1345	Posted - 2014.11.28 21:22:00 - [3] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Imp Smash wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Funkmaster Whale wrote: There's honestly nothing OP about Sentinels right now. the fact that you can type this and come off sincerely is amazing and frightening. teach me this secret so I can troll better. Probably because there is a fairly reasonable chance he is not wrong. circumstantially he is correct. Unfortunately in order for him to be correct we need a 50/50 open/CQC map spread Funny you should mention that...because about an hour ago this was said. Honestly if reptools were nerfed as far as either rep speed or time allowed for usage continually (I would go with the former to help protect guardian points and mass repairs after fights are over) AND maps were designed with a bit more battle doctrine in mind you would solve the heavy problem. Pro rep tools on 3/4ths of logistics can't outrep a basic light weapon,and you want them nerfed more? Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1350	Posted - 2014.11.29 20:16:00 - [4] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: Meee One wrote: Imp Smash wrote: Funny you should mention that...because about an hour ago this was said. Honestly if reptools were nerfed as far as either rep speed or time allowed for usage continually (I would go with the former to help protect guardian points and mass repairs after fights are over) AND maps were designed with a bit more battle doctrine in mind you would solve the heavy problem. Pro rep tools on 3/4ths of logistics can't outrep a basic light weapon,and you want them nerfed more? Yeah, I guess to be honest I think they should be weaker but I am unable to call nerf. There are several reasons and caveats to this: 1. On paper it sounds like the reptool isn't too crazy because, as you just said, a basic light weapon can out damage it. But let's be honest -- that is assuming ALL shots hit which is silly. It also ignores inherent regeneration the suit may have. Yes heavies take more damage from incoming fire than any other suit -- even so you can't expect a heavy to take EVERY shot (even though it is possible.) Your reptool buys him time to fire. And a heavy HMG does a lot of damage -- more so than any light weapon. Due to dispersion it won't be 800/900 DPS like so many people like to say, but it will still be higher than any light weapon. So the heavy has a bit more time to DPS and time to do that DPS is a larger gap for a heavy over any other suit because of the damage output. Basically the proof is in the pudding. A heavy by him/herself is dangerous at close range but reasonably killable even toe to toe with an assault. But a heavy with a logi on the back will win over 90% of the time. 2. The reptool is free usage. Other games with repair mechanics do not give infinite reptool usage. Nor the sheer range. It's not just about Reps per second (RPS?) but also about the availability. But as I said there are caveats. If they made reptools rep a little slower their triage WPs should be boosted a little to compensate the Logi for the extra time spent repping a heavy. Basically the logi would get a tad more WP for it but be able to do it to less people in a given time frame thereby balancing out WP gain. And I also don't think they should limit reptool usage. If you have 1 logi, 2 or 3 heavies, 5 or 6 assaults, and a scout or 2 that survive a fight defending a point that logi is going to have to rep ALL of them. Especially at lower rep rate that will cost time and time IS a resource. Furthermore I think we will see Armor being able to absorb more damage in the future. This is just my guess as to the meta game and its next evolution mind you, but shield tanking and armor tanking are about to go through major changes that will either A. Make armor tanking WAY better than shield so more people go armor tank and that reptool will have more buffer HP to rep or B. Shield tanking will catch up to armor tanking and we will see more shield fits. Which will mean we see more guns that are better against shield than armor. Which will mean the armor you are repping will be taking more damage from armor weak/shield strong guns than currently. At the same time, I am uncomfortable calling for a nerf of anything really. I may be horrendously wrong. What I deem an issue with reptools may NOT be an issue with reptools but in fact with something else. More to the point, I really don't know what to suggest to weaken the reptool slightly while still being fair. It may be the case that reptools are fine on other suits and only unbalanced on the heavy. I honestly don't know. There is, however, no doubt in my mind that reptools are magnifying the heavy's advantages more than they magnify other suit's advantages. EDIT: Actually scratch that. I just had a thought. What if Reptools repaired a percent of a suit's HP as opposed to a specific number? And that this number was specifc for each suit? Heavies get say (random number incomming) 6% of their HP back per second while assaults get 10% back per second? The commando gets back 8% The number could be whatever makes reptools more or less the same amount of rep for the various assaults while making them a tad less effective on heavies. (random numbers chosen of course. the above edit is just brainstorming. feel free to shoot it down in a fiery ball.) Regards. Wow,after the scanner and hive nerf,rep tools were the only thing not nerfed. 1) "Teamworks is OP and a single assault should be able to easily overcome two suits working together." -lolwut,you're serious aren't you? 2) "Rep tools help heavies more." Solution 1:Realize logistics is called a 'force multiplier' for a reason. Solution 2:Realize you could bring your own logistics along and have the reps,and be able to out strafe that same heavy. Solution 3:Realize that (currently) logistics are only fast enough to help heavies,which is why you don't see many assault + logistics combos. 3)"Rep tool is free usage." -So the CPU/PG requirement is just a suggestion? -The suit itself is the battery. 4)"% based reps." -You like armor dual tanking? Because this would cripple shield suits further. -I assume scouts rep would be highest,so you just migrated heavy FOTM chasers to brick Gal/Amarr scout chasers. 5)"Calling something silly." -I find it incredible that you say all shots won't land,but don't mention rep tools can lose lock-on going around corners,or if the person being repped runs out of range. -I also find it incredible that you don't take into consideration that the rep tool make the user vulnerable and traps them within 20m of active gunfire,while weapons don't. -Risk vs reward is actually alright with rep tools as they are,any changes and they become too risk and much less reward. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.