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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 5 post(s)
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 529	Posted - 2014.11.21 18:55:00 - [271] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Personally I don't like the idea of shields reducing movement, it doesn't seem to make sense. I agree they should have a penalty to reduce the effectiveness of shield stacked Caldari scouts. Exactly what penalty, I'm not sure. Scout only regen reduction, gets worse with tier? it should increase their scan profile. cal scouts dont need to hide anyways when they can see you coming Magic hitbox or not, if there's a single Super Strafer who has earned a rightful nerf, it is the CalScout. Slap a couple ferro or reactive plates on a shield-tanked CalScout, and become the very best Super Strafer in the game. Stand toe-to-toe with Assaults with twice your HP. Slug it out, wiggle-wiggle and win. And do you really care about your scan profile? Of course you don't, or you would've have run damps instead of HP. I don't have the answer (this one's tough), but I don't think that Sig Penalty is going to fix the guys who need fixin'. Low-HP MinScouts running double and triple damps would take the biggest hit, and Assault Lite would walk away largely unscathed. Hey, cool! You're almost here! ALL scouts need a movement nerf to address the strafing disparity or ALL others need a buff to compensate! All this business about creating plate/extender penalties really is just an attempt to alleviate tye existing scout imbalances but unfortunately, since it nerfs everyone, even though it changes the datapool it doesn't actually correct for the imbalance. It's an accounting trick. Not trolling, I'm glad to see you're coming around to realizing that scout base stats have issues relative to the rest of the field and are starting to warm up to fixing them directly instead of screwing all the rest of us with crazy layers of "fix" just being laid out on top of imbalance. +1 and Good Day to you, Sir! o7 Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 529	Posted - 2014.11.21 18:57:00 - [272] - Quote You guys need to be fast, deservedly so. But not THAT fast, gamebreakingly so. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Kaeru Nayiri OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 204	Posted - 2014.11.21 19:02:00 - [273] - Quote We should apply the same effects to back peddle speed as well. It would dynamically change close quarters engagements and actually add to the meta of favoring tank or speed.
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 517	Posted - 2014.11.21 19:28:00 - [274] - Quote Why not? Strafe 90% of base movement ---> 80% of base movement (demotes the wiggle) Backpedal 100% of base movement ---> 90% of base movement (demotes the heavy) Regular Plates +2% movement penalty (discourages stacking; demotes King HP) Light Plates +1% movement penalty (discourages stacking; demotes super strafer) All Shields +3% shield recharge delay (discourages stacking; promotes regulators)
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1320	Posted - 2014.11.21 19:34:00 - [275] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Caldari scout OPness, might someone say I like this guy Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6058	Posted - 2014.11.21 20:27:00 - [276] - Quote It seems to me like the optimal nerf would be one involving the physics of strafing. I am also assuming that is much more time intensive, and perhaps this is the best option given the circumstances. I am also Minmatar, and have zero problems with duct tape. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
jace silencerww D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 95	Posted - 2014.11.21 21:17:00 - [277] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Why not? Strafe 90% of base movement ---> 80% of base movement (demotes the wiggle) Backpedal 100% of base movement ---> 90% of base movement (demotes the heavy) Regular Plates +2% movement penalty (discourages stacking; demotes King HP) Light Plates +1% movement penalty (discourages stacking; demotes super strafer) All Shields +3% shield recharge delay (discourages stacking; promotes regulators) I like it. how about the shield delay to both recharge when partly & depleted being the same & scan profile goes up?
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 522	Posted - 2014.11.21 21:32:00 - [278] - Quote jace silencerww wrote: I like it. how about the shield delay to both recharge when partly & depleted being the same & scan profile goes up? I believe Sig Penalties would do more harm than good; I'm hoping Rattati finds another way.
Kensai Dragon DUST University Ivy League 110	Posted - 2014.11.21 21:48:00 - [279] - Quote Decreasing the strafe and back pedaling speeds sounds quite simple. If inertia for each suit on the field is too complicated / CPU intensive then this sounds like a good path to go on.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13334	Posted - 2014.11.22 02:21:00 - [280] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: jace silencerww wrote: I like it. how about the shield delay to both recharge when partly & depleted being the same & scan profile goes up? I am of the opinion that Sig Penalties on Shield Extenders would do more harm than good; hoping Rattati finds another way. Why? Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++

Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 541	Posted - 2014.11.22 02:52:00 - [281] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: jace silencerww wrote: I like it. how about the shield delay to both recharge when partly & depleted being the same & scan profile goes up? I am of the opinion that Sig Penalties on Shield Extenders would do more harm than good; hoping Rattati finds another way. Why? 1. Sig Penalty poses a direct threat to Minmatar Scout viability. 2. Sig Penalty destabilizes intra-class balance among Scouts. 3. Sig Penalty devalues MedFrame EWAR module investment (we should be doing the opposite). 4. Sig Penalty does not constitute a meaningful drawback to its intended target (Assault Lite). 5. Sig Penalty will have little-if-any affect on predominant loadout meta (HP stacking / King HP). I've had a few margaritas, Cat, and I expect that these five points will make infinitely less sense when I read them tomorrow. Let me know if I need elaborate or illustrate.
jace silencerww D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 96	Posted - 2014.11.22 03:30:00 - [282] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: jace silencerww wrote: I like it. how about the shield delay to both recharge when partly & depleted being the same & scan profile goes up? I am of the opinion that Sig Penalties on Shield Extenders would do more harm than good; hoping Rattati finds another way. not a lot so maybe on complex shields 4% adv 3% and basic 2% each shield. the only scout that will hurt in the minnie
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 541	Posted - 2014.11.22 03:36:00 - [283] - Quote jace silencerww wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: jace silencerww wrote: I like it. how about the shield delay to both recharge when partly & depleted being the same & scan profile goes up? I am of the opinion that Sig Penalties on Shield Extenders would do more harm than good; hoping Rattati finds another way. not a lot so maybe on complex shields 4% adv 3% and basic 2% each shield. the only scout that will hurt is the minnie The only Scout who needn't be hurt is the Minnie.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 695	Posted - 2014.11.22 04:37:00 - [284] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: Varoth Drac wrote: Personally I don't like the idea of shields reducing movement, it doesn't seem to make sense. I agree they should have a penalty to reduce the effectiveness of shield stacked Caldari scouts. Exactly what penalty, I'm not sure. Scout only regen reduction, gets worse with tier? it should increase their scan profile. cal scouts dont need to hide anyways when they can see you coming Magic hitbox or not, if there's a single Super Strafer who has earned a rightful nerf, it is the CalScout. Slap a couple ferro or reactive plates on a shield-tanked CalScout, and become the very best Super Strafer in the game. Stand toe-to-toe with Assaults with twice your HP. Slug it out, wiggle-wiggle and win. And do you really care about your scan profile? Of course you don't, or you would've have run damps instead of HP. I don't have the answer (this one's tough), but I don't think that Sig Penalty is going to fix the guys who need fixin'. Low-HP MinScouts running double and triple damps would take the biggest hit here, and the CalScout Super Strafer would walk away largely unscathed. the work being done to scans combined with a sig penalty to extenders, should create a scenario not beneficial to scouts. if armor plates get their new penalty and the sig penalty was severe enough to make scouts show up on scans like light bulbs even while cloaked, then i think it would be fine. the issue with them up til now is that they still get scan bonuses even while brick tanking and no ewar mods fitted. no one is saying the cal scout shouldnt get nerfed, but i dont think a movement penalty should be applied where it affect suits that were totally fine before. if scout HP is too high from stacking, then why not make new variants of HP mods with CPU/PG requirements meant for different suit sizes? we do it for vehicles, why not for the suits?
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 695	Posted - 2014.11.22 04:45:00 - [285] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Vitantur Nothus wrote: jace silencerww wrote: I like it. how about the shield delay to both recharge when partly & depleted being the same & scan profile goes up? I am of the opinion that Sig Penalties on Shield Extenders would do more harm than good; hoping Rattati finds another way. Why? 1. Sig Penalty poses a direct threat to Minmatar Scout viability. 2. Sig Penalty destabilizes intra-class balance among Scouts. 3. Sig Penalty devalues MedFrame EWAR module investment (we should be doing the opposite). 4. Sig Penalty does not constitute a meaningful drawback to its intended target (Assault Lite). 5. Sig Penalty will have little-if-any affect on predominant loadout meta (HP stacking / King HP). I've had a few margaritas, Cat, and I expect that these five points will make infinitely less sense when I read them tomorrow. Let me know if I need elaborate or illustrate. a sig penalty would make assault lite as easy to detect as a regular assault. so anyone running true scouts or even mediums running ewar could see the little abomination coming. and assault lite dont have the same hp as their true assault brothers. they just make up for it with cloaks and built in ewar bonuses. a scout that cant hide and has no ewar is simply an assault with less assault ability. they would get wrecked
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 568	Posted - 2014.11.22 04:47:00 - [286] - Quote I'm under the impression that Scout bonuses are being rewired to point to efficacy. Not sure if that changes your position or not, but it seems very likely.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 258	Posted - 2014.11.22 11:16:00 - [287] - Quote Still have no problems killing cal scouts.... they don't have a problem... people's aim is not always on point if CCP released a stat for Shots fired/shots hit/shots missed it would prove that the majority of people are actually missing their target much more than they think. I reckon my accuracy is something like 30% in this game. Maybe a bit higher from my SCR precision headshot days. The minmatar assault currently is having some hitbox issues, it's large dual tank hp pool can be coupled with high movement speed quite easily to provide a much more menacing target than scouts. No wonder it's the new undeclared fotm. I've had one for ages but i don't use a KBM so i never really found a need for it. If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection... it wil just mean your gun tracks targets for you no problem..... then it will be down to player skill as it should be... i played for a week without aim assist and i realised just how easy people have it... it needs to go. i doubt it will be there for KBM legion so why in dust? take it out NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 258	Posted - 2014.11.22 11:23:00 - [288] - Quote and the reason the "caldariscout OPness" exists is because many of the top players like a shield suit with fast regen that can strafe.... it doesn't mean it's op, it just means its the suit of preference for people who like that kind of suit.... It's weak to AR, SCR and so on which absolutely shred the suit, obviously the elite are going to use one suit over another, according to preference.... The whole bloody reason this exists is because group mentality, people see something in use, they're like.. woah that must be decent, they use it.. next thing you know, CCP nerfs it and the whole crowd moves on.... next is minmatar assault, and CCP needs to stop this nerf buff cycle... In a straight 1 v 1, the cal scout does not have the Hp advantage against other assault, scouts, logis or heavies.... even a gallente assault can fit nearly the same shields as a cal scout without any sacrifice.... People die in cal scouts so easily, CCP needs to release the numbers for cal scout usage and cal scout loss... Player skill attributes to this not anything else, there is no "broken hitbox". If every good player in dust started using the frontline suit tommorow, it's stats would skyrocket beyond it's normal stats, and would that make it OP? no..... Nerf the Nerf/Buff culture. Nerf KB/M strafe. Nerf Aim assist. Nerf everything. NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
Spankdamonke ScReWeD uP InC 48	Posted - 2014.11.22 11:54:00 - [289] - Quote I'm lazy, and don't want to sift through pages of arguments to see if anyone has suggested it, but.... Why not simply do a blanket nerf to strafe speeds across the board? EVERY suit would be at a 'disadvantage', with no race/playstyle singled out or getting hit harder than another. I never did understand why sideways and backwards movement were the same as moving forward. I might just crap my pants the day I see mercs utilize cover and tactical positioning, instead of Texas Two-stepping in every encounter. Ssss Tttt Rrrr Aaaa Ffff Eeee Strafe....DANCE!
JIAF-PR 118	Posted - 2014.11.22 13:59:00 - [290] - Quote I go to suggest something "nobody suggested before": if we want the Scouts don't use much HP modules, we need change the eWar bonus to a eWar module efficiency bonus, maybe with this they use more the eWar modules because they go to need them if they want have the bonus. In addition, why the GalScout have a bonus of dampener? they have 4 lowslots for that, they don't need this bonus; is like the CalScout, they give up the precision bonus because they have 4 highslots for this. Sorry for my English; JIAF-PR "Los grandes no son grandes sino porque estamos de rodillas. Levantémonos" GÇô Pedro Albizu Campos

Alaika Arbosa Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc. 2265	Posted - 2014.11.22 15:43:00 - [291] - Quote I find it amusing that some have so little faith in the MinScout. No scout *needs* to stack HP at all. Period. Scouts are supposed to die from being sneezed on. If you're seen as a scout, you should be dead. The whole point of scouts is to sneak in, drop links, start scans/trap objectives/assassinate reddot stragglers. If Scouts are actually fitting for EWAR (like they should be) and are being played intelligently (again, like they should be); there is no reason that they shouldn't be 1-3/0 with shedloads of Intel Assist/Team Spawn WP. Gò¡Gê¬Gò«(Gùú_Gùó)Gò¡Gê¬Gò«
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 546	Posted - 2014.11.22 17:01:00 - [292] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. Well, shields and armor should be mechanically distinct. Otherwise there is no point in having the two distinct systems, as "two HP bars that are identical but have different damage modifiers" is a bit of a boring concept. Now, I'm not arguing against or for speed penalties on shield extenders, but having the same penalties for both extenders and plates reduces some of the flavor from both HP systems. Similar to adding a shield repair tool. (If there was a shield repair system, I'd argue in favor of a grenade that cancels out shield delay, allowing shield users to maximize their performance in squad combat, by maximizing their shield regeneration at the cost of a strongly increased regeneration delay in solo combat) Just think of how to make a distinction for both HP systems, if you can without too much effort.
Haerr 1980	Posted - 2014.11.22 18:39:00 - [293] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: If you'd fix strafe speed you wouldn't have to herf hit detection. fighter jets
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 581	Posted - 2014.11.22 18:44:00 - [294] - Quote manboar thunder fist wrote: If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection... Jebus would be thrilled.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 262	Posted - 2014.11.22 19:19:00 - [295] - Quote brilliant. love my drunken logic "If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2900	Posted - 2014.11.22 21:28:00 - [296] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. Heres the idea Rattati, its really simple. Make Kincats and Myofibs give movement speed bonuses, so that we can negate this ridiculousness if we sacrifice our off tank, so that there won't be dual tanking. Easy, peezy, lemon squeezey. MY thoughts (for numbers) would be something like this: Penalties(%): Shields: STD: 0 ADV: 1 PRO: 2 Armor(NV, Ferro, React): STD: 2/0/1 ADV: 3/1/1 PRO: 4/2/2 Bonuses(%): Myofibs: STD: 0% ADV: 1% PRO: 2% (Remember, Myofibs have a 50% skill multiplier) Kincats: STD: 2% ADV: 3% PRO: 4% "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 6113	Posted - 2014.11.22 21:31:00 - [297] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless? The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing. Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few. Heres the idea Rattati, its really simple. Make Kincats and Myofibs give movement speed bonuses, so that we can negate this ridiculousness if we sacrifice our off tank, so that there won't be dual tanking. Easy, peezy, lemon squeezey. MY thoughts (for numbers) would be something like this: Penalties(%): Shields: STD: 0 ADV: 1 PRO: 2 Armor(NV, Ferro, React): STD: 2/0/1 ADV: 3/1/1 PRO: 4/2/2 Bonuses(%): Myofibs: STD: 0% ADV: 1% PRO: 2% (Remember, Myofibs have a 50% skill multiplier) Kincats: STD: 2% ADV: 3% PRO: 4% He already suggested Myofibrils might be used to increase strafe and/or jump. Thunderbolt. verb and noun. "James thunderbolted in his pants." "I lit a bag of thunderbolt on fire on CCP's doorway"
Cody Sietz Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 4123	Posted - 2014.11.22 22:48:00 - [298] - Quote I just want the extender+damp Cal Scouts to stop. I run 2 complex precision mods and still can't find them, and when I do they pop up with a ScR/six kin And melt me away. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Jebus McKing Jebus Hates Scans 1053	Posted - 2014.11.22 22:51:00 - [299] - Quote ******************************* ***************************** I'd rather see hitdetection fixed before we make any changes to strafe speed, cal scouts, min assaults, or ANYTHING. ***************************** ******************************* Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
Nirwanda Vaughns 971	Posted - 2014.11.23 00:19:00 - [300] - Quote perhaps for the Shield Extenders we'll see the return of them increasing a suits profile signature (making them easier to pickup) which would counter the scouts a little. Never argue with an idiot. they bring you down to their level and beat you through experience proud C-II bpo owner



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"If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014