Caldari scout OPness, might someone say

Dear Players,

We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP.

The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all.

This is quite blunt, but it's been a long time coming.

Extenders and Armor Plates are obviously the focus here, and Reactives and Ferroscales may be omitted in the first pass.

P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small.

Gonna say it again.

1. Double the penalties for stacking health on light frames.

2. Change shield extender penalty to a scan profile penalty.

3. Add in a "ferroscale" shield extender with less HP but no profile penalty for CalScouts.

It seems to me the strafe speed penalty is trying to fix 4 things at the same time.

Heavy dominance.
Scout dominance.
HP stacking dominance.
Bandaid for poor hit detection.

I think it won't be that easy, Rattati. Please scrap this idea and come up with individual and more effective fixes.

And guys, stop demanding a profile penalty for shield extenders if you yourself don't even care about EWAR. EWAR is complex enough already even without more modules messing with it. Also, HP stacking suits would not care about this penalty anyway.

In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless?

The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing.

Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few.

Dear Players,

We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP.

The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all.

This is quite blunt, but it's been a long time coming.

Extenders and Armor Plates are obviously the focus here, and Reactives and Ferroscales may be omitted in the first pass.

P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small.

Would it be acceptable to increase movement dispersion so as to make it garbage to "run-n-gun" with a light weapon? It would obviously force more shotgun, mass driver and sidearm play, or at least make us go into ADS more often to achieve any accuracy. Instead of two-stepping while laying on the trigger, make us actually line up shots and shoot in a controlled manner.

I know our dropsuits have fire-assistance protocols, but that should only do so much when firing from the hip.

do you even play eve? useing shield extenders makes you easier to hit.. so insted of speed nerfs just a x% increase to hitbox per modual fitted.. and make it only for scouts as commando/sentinel are already HUGE.. and mediums are in a good place.

this is the 2nd obsurd idea of yours, first being that of the bandwidth.. in regard to bandwidth i would leave that on the back burner till we have played around with the NEW ORBITALS and seen how they effect the matches and areas of equipment over saturation.. which wont be a problem and may be useful in conjunction with the 150m range active scanner+ECM orbitals..

CHANGE TOO MUCH TOO SOON AND YOU KILL THE GAME

take a leaf out of the eve devs book and just do smaller changes see how community reacts, and THEN move to next phase IF its still needed.

In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless?

The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing.

Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few.

The EVE analogy is BS. The only choice we have is passive tanking because if you try to active shield tank a suit in DUST you are DEAD. Same for active armor tanking. Also there are no resistence modules or anything like that. I'm not an EVE player but I damn sure know that in EVE your tanking is not limited to either stack a **** ton of shield or stack a **** ton of armor.

Sure you can go ahead and make extenders give me a larger hitbox, if you give me a module that reduces my shield recharge delay to 0, I'd be ok with that.

My question would be, "do you even strafe bro?"; seriously man. You do realize that the shield recharge delay penalty for stacking extenders was introduced to deal with this issue, right? How will that fact be dealt with? Also what data suggests this extra penalty is needed? Also currently armor tankers can duck their penalty by using ferroscale as I often do, will their be an equivalent for shields?

Consider please that good strafe is part of the game and you should view it as a defensive skill you learn with your left thumb while shooting is an offensive skill you learn with your right. If you are looking for way to further penalise dual tanking my next question would be why? Let it go. Why do you find it necessary to influence our builds. Everyone has the same choices, why care if someone sacrifices speed or regen for hp, which they do. Personally I dont see why you dont go in the opposite direction and remove both shield and armor stacking penalties we have currently and leave it alone.

The real question we need to know is are you trying to punish dual tanking or strafe???? If its dual tanking then find another way if you must have a say in our builds, if its strafe then you are just messing up one of the good parts. Dual tanking is bad is Eve lore fan boy nonsense, its irrelevant to your current customer base.

dual tankings only bad if your not using a minmatar suit.
it only exists because the rest of the tanking styles from the other races are partially missing, mods are missing and mods are in the wrong slots.

example: if kincats and card regs were in the high slots (where they belong) you wouldnt see gal suits or amarr suits with shields

and no because most people who initially bought into this game were people who played eve and knew about this games existence years before it even came out.
its absolutely relevant.

im also defending strafing in this thread. because the idea hes proposing as a nerf to shields and some of the armor plates is wrong eve wise anyway.

^^this

I agree wholeheartedly and have been fighting this same fight since Mordu's.

Only part I don't agree with is about strafing, if it were curbstomped into oblivion, I wouldn't care and wouldn't miss it.

I like how the only way to get people to use myos is to make them do something completely unrelated to melee damage

I fail to see how Melee damage and reaction speed are unrelated.. From what I understand... when someone is in better shape their muscles are much more reactive and stronger allowing for someone to contract their muscles faster. This allows a stronger punch and fast reaction time when dodging bullet rounds.....

Really, where does the term "musclebound" come from then?

This allows a stronger punch and fast reaction time when dodging bullet rounds.....

Signature penalty for shield extenders:
Noone except scouts would even care because noone but scouts care for EWAR apparently. And this would hit the min scout even harder than the cal scout.
Bad proposal.

Hitbox size increase penalty for shield extenders:
This would either be hardly noticeable or cause massive problems like getting hit even while behind cover etc.
Bad proposal.

Strafe speed penalty:
Poor attempt at ending scout and heavy dominance. More mobility penalties make the game increasingly annoying to play. Have the potential to kill scout class while at the same time having no effect on heavies. Problem with hitting scouts is a hit detection problem, not a strafe speed problem.
Bad proposal.

What could be done instead:
- Finally make scout bonus affect module efficacy instead of base stats. Tanked scouts will have awful EWAR abilities, easy to detect, bad scans.
- Buff assaults profile by 5db to give them the chance to hide from scouts with poor EWAR.
- Heavy dominance could be reduced by changing other parameters like base HP, HMG DPS, HMG range, rep-tool rep rate, etc.
- HP module stacking could be solved by making other modules more effective and actually worth the risk.

Kind of a stretch. It's quite clear, to me, that Rattati is trying to combat EHP tanking as a whole by adding more penalties to Armor Plates and Shield Extenders by way of reducing strafe speed. The logic, toward extenders specifically, is that the module itself has weight, not necessarily the shield. Thereby, he's not saying shield extenders are OP at all and even if he were he's hinting at a counter-balance through Myrofibrals/Kinetic Catalyzers increasing strafe speed, as stated in an earlier post.

The premise there is that he's trying to increase the benefits of utility while further discouraging simply stacking HP modules on everything. Is it the correct way to do it? That's up for debate. But he never once said that "Caldari Scouts are over-powered because of shield extenders". If anything, this change is more focused toward Sentinel's who arguably have no other reason to use any other module -BESIDES- HP tanking modules.

It's a sound idea. Sentinel wants to stack plates/extenders, he's going to lose mobility, which makes him more vulnerable. Something I'm not entirely against because Sentinel's shouldn't be about mobility anyway. Scouts would be affected as well, which is good, because there's a lot of scouts out there (not just Caldari) that just brick tank and become a faster Assault.

The worst that can happen is we try it, no-one likes it, and we revert back to the old ways. Honestly, I -liked- the way the strafe speeds were BEFORE the strafe speed increase bug back in 1.5 (I think) so I'm all for it.

Caldari scout OPness, might someone say

Personally I don't like the idea of shields reducing movement, it doesn't seem to make sense.

I agree they should have a penalty to reduce the effectiveness of shield stacked Caldari scouts. Exactly what penalty, I'm not sure. Scout only regen reduction, gets worse with tier?

it should increase their scan profile. cal scouts dont need to hide anyways when they can see you coming