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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Jebus McKing
1021
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Posted - 2014.11.19 20:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
If you'd fix strafe speed you wouldn't have to herf hit detection.
Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
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Jebus McKing
1022
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Posted - 2014.11.19 21:47:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Caldari scout OPness, might someone say There is no OPness.
There is people using the wrong weapons. (I'm destroying cal scouts with breach ScP, they go down in 2-3 shots, or even just 1 when it's a headshot. And I think most other anti shield weaponry is also pretty effective.)
There is people not using dampeners. (One complex dampener makes any medium suit invisible to shield stacking cal scout scans.)
There are too many people having no clue what they are talking about but damn hell are gonna make sure everyone knows what their opinion is, no matter if based on facts or hearsay.
And there still is poor poor hit detection. And these strafing changes sound like another poor bandaid to technical hit detection issues to me.
Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
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Jebus McKing
1022
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Posted - 2014.11.19 22:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Sure a proto cal scout can have 400+ shield HP, so what? Still dies in 3 shots from a STD breach ScP. And if you did not see him coming then all the strafe speed and/or HP nerfs wouldn't have saved you.
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If you think that strafing is unrealistic then add a inertia system, like it was proposed many times. But making HP modules, especially shields, reduce your strafe speed is plain and simple a really poor solution.
I know and I have experienced myself that scouts (not just cal scouts) can even strafe through a 1200rpm stream of ACR bullets without taking damage. But again that is not a problem of strafe speed but hit detection.
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Seriously, at least wait with this change until you switched the scout bonuses to modules efficacy and let's see how this changes scouts.
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Reducing mobility is IMO just a poor way of balancing things because it makes playing the game increasingly inconvenient and annoying. If you think Heavies are over performing then we have to find a different solution but nerfing strafe speed for everyone. I also don't believe that failing at hitting a strafing heavy is the cause of them overperforming.
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If you think that people in general are using too many HP modules then ffs buff the other modules instead of giving HP modules more penalties. I kinda doubt that people would switch out a plate for a codebreaker just because you add a strafing penalty to plates, if you know what I mean.
Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
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Jebus McKing
1022
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Posted - 2014.11.19 22:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
(accidental double post)
Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
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Jebus McKing
1022
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Posted - 2014.11.19 23:19:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jadd Hatchen wrote:Ok, so I've been reading through all the arguments for this thread and I've come to the conclusion that CCP's original idea for fixing strafing will not work unless something is also done about shield penalties... Meaning the following:
!) For BOTH armor plates and shields extenders, they should be changed to a percentage system so that they become more tailored to the dropsuit they are being fitted on. This way "brick tanking" things that should be releatively lower EHP will not happen.
2) Imposing a movement penalty (ie. speed/strafe/mass) is good for armor plates and makes sense, however it does NOT make sense for shields.
3) For shield extenders, there should be one or possibly two drawbacks (and NOT have the recharge delay as one of them)... First they should affect the signature of the dropsuit so that they are almost one class size larger for detection purposes (light goes to medium, medium to heavy, heavy to LAV, LAV to HAV, HAV... welll no one hides those). Second it should increase the HITBOX of the dropsuit such that they are easier to HIT by players. These two changes would effectively mimic the drawback of shield extenders in EVE for spaceships. In EVE, adding armor plates adds mass, greater mass reduces top speed, acceration, and agility (turning/alignment time). In EVE, adding shield extenders makes the ship's signature radius bloom to a larger size and thus guns that would normally not be able to track and hit the smaller ships are subsequently able to do so.
This sort of change would be a BETTER and more comprehensive FIX for the situation that has caused this line of discussion.
1) I like it but at the same time I think we don't really need to go that far.
2) True.
3) The thing is, in EVE you could also use active shield tanking so I think making the hitbox larger isn't really that great of a solution since in DUST we don't really have a choice. Also in EVE there is no cover and if in DUST your hitbox got larger it might happen that you are getting hit even while behind cover.
I am absolutely against making extenders increase your profile. Shield tankers generally don't have a lot of low slots to fit dampeners so adding this kind of penalty would hit them twice as hard as armor tankers.
If we need a penalty to extenders at all, which I still kinda doubt, then it also should affect tanking and not EWAR. EWAR is complex enough (and will become even more so with the EWAR overhaul) even without another module having an effect on your profile. Instead I'd rather propose a penalty to shield regen, or non-depleted delay.
Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
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Jebus McKing
1024
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Posted - 2014.11.20 13:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
If you don't want people to strafe left-right-left-right then add a inertia system to strafing, so you don't reach your max strafe speed immediately when changing direction.
This would penalise the wiggle-wiggle strafing but not affect strafing in one direction only.
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If scout bonuses would affect module efficacy instead of base stats you would instantly see either less tanked scouts or tanked scouts with awful EWAR, and I think we should wait and see how this, alongside the rest of the EWAR changes, changes the game before making further adjustments.
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If you think stacking HP modules is too effective then buff the other modules. Sadly enough the risk VS reward for many modules is just much worse than for HP modules.
Most other modules (except for damage mods) will only help you inbetween fights, and for that downside most of them are just too weak to be worth the risk.
The issue with too many people only stacking HP is just a logical consequence of them trying to win fights and not trying to be more effective while not fighting. And the measly 25% hack speed of a complex codebreaker won't really help you when you are staring into the barrel of a HMG, but an armor plate certainly will.
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If you absolutely want to add another penalty to shield extenders then make it affect the tanking ability and not the ability of something that has nothing to do with tanking. For example make shield extenders reduce shield regen rate by 3/4/5%, and then buff rechargers and energizers slightly to make people consider using those instead of extenders.
LOL @ everyone who wants shield extenders to increase scan profile. Sure you can demand that because it wouldn't affect you and your HP stacked Assaults, Logis, Sentinels who don't care about EWAR anyway.
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As a Minmatar Sentinel user I have to say I will not support any changes that negatively affect my mobility because I already die just as quickly as most Assaults.
A strafe speed penalty would hit Minmatar Heavies even more than most other Sentinels who don't care too much about mobility anyway when they stack those complex plates.
Hell, if you stack those complex plates on a Amarr Sentinel the strafe speed becomes pathetically slow already but that doesn't stop them from dominating CQC engagements.
But to be honest, I don't have a definate answer to what to do about Heavies.
Maybe, maybe giving Amarr heavies 1200 BASE HP wasn't such a good idea.
Or making the HMG have a dps of 800+ (with prof and/or dmg mods).
Or making the core focused rep-tool rep heavies at 150hp/s.
One thing is for certain. A strafe speed penalty won't hurt those armor stacking Amarr/Gallente Sentinels too much, because hitting a Heavy really is not a problem.
Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
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Jebus McKing
Jebus Hates Scans
1030
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Posted - 2014.11.20 23:22:00 -
[7] - Quote
Scouts wiggle strafing is not the problem, poor hit detection is!
Fix hit detection!
Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
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Jebus McKing
Jebus Hates Scans
1031
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Posted - 2014.11.20 23:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
Signature penalty for shield extenders: Noone except scouts would even care because noone but scouts care for EWAR apparently. And this would hit the min scout even harder than the cal scout. Bad proposal.
Hitbox size increase penalty for shield extenders: This would either be hardly noticeable or cause massive problems like getting hit even while behind cover etc. Bad proposal.
Strafe speed penalty: Poor attempt at ending scout and heavy dominance. More mobility penalties make the game increasingly annoying to play. Have the potential to kill scout class while at the same time having no effect on heavies. Problem with hitting scouts is a hit detection problem, not a strafe speed problem. Bad proposal.
What could be done instead: - Finally make scout bonus affect module efficacy instead of base stats. Tanked scouts will have awful EWAR abilities, easy to detect, bad scans. - Buff assaults profile by 5db to give them the chance to hide from scouts with poor EWAR. - Heavy dominance could be reduced by changing other parameters like base HP, HMG DPS, HMG range, rep-tool rep rate, etc. - HP module stacking could be solved by making other modules more effective and actually worth the risk.
Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
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Jebus McKing
Jebus Hates Scans
1035
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Posted - 2014.11.21 09:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
It seems to me the strafe speed penalty is trying to fix 4 things at the same time.
Heavy dominance. Scout dominance. HP stacking dominance. Bandaid for poor hit detection.
I think it won't be that easy, Rattati. Please scrap this idea and come up with individual and more effective fixes.
And guys, stop demanding a profile penalty for shield extenders if you yourself don't even care about EWAR. EWAR is complex enough already even without more modules messing with it. Also, HP stacking suits would not care about this penalty anyway.
Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
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Jebus McKing
Jebus Hates Scans
1036
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Posted - 2014.11.21 09:47:00 -
[10] - Quote
The EVE analogy is BS. The only choice we have is passive tanking because if you try to active shield tank a suit in DUST you are DEAD. Same for active armor tanking. Also there are no resistence modules or anything like that. I'm not an EVE player but I damn sure know that in EVE your tanking is not limited to either stack a **** ton of shield or stack a **** ton of armor.
Sure you can go ahead and make extenders give me a larger hitbox, if you give me a module that reduces my shield recharge delay to 0, I'd be ok with that.
Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
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Jebus McKing
Jebus Hates Scans
1053
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Posted - 2014.11.22 22:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
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I'd rather see hitdetection fixed before we make any changes to strafe speed, cal scouts, min assaults, or ANYTHING.
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Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
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Jebus McKing
Jebus Hates Scans
1062
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Posted - 2014.11.23 17:16:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vrain Matari wrote:KA24DERT wrote:Let's just nail everyone's feet to the ground and get this over with. That might be a bit extreme. I think what these anti-fps peeps are looking for is something like tab targeting - you know, like WOW has. Make it so that all weapons work like rep-tools. You lock on to an enemy and then the weapon automatically deals damage!
That would be perfect! It would fix hitdetection, and strafe issues, and matchmaking at the same time, and it would be as close to EVE as a FPS can get!
Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
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Jebus McKing
Jebus Hates Scans
1064
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Posted - 2014.11.23 23:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Dear Players,
We are going to add separate strafe penalties to HP modules. We will not be reducing normal speed, nor running speed, only left-right speed, making the "dodging" of bullets more difficult, and Sentinels lack of mobility to become a real vulnerability when stacking eHP.
The calculations will theoretically be based off of relative mass (Scouts) and total mass (Sentinels). Medium Frames will not be affected as much as these two. Basic Frames may end up not having any penalties at all.
This is quite blunt, but it's been a long time coming.
Extenders and Armor Plates are obviously the focus here, and Reactives and Ferroscales may be omitted in the first pass.
P.S. Medium speeds may get shaken up in light of the Assault HP boost , Logistics may get a speed boost, Commandos as well, Assault speed reduction, all very small. You know what, I changed my mind. Make it happen. After reading all 16 pages again, I've come to the conclusion that this proposal doesn't sound so bad compared to some other proposals in here. I'll get used to the new strafing speed. Especially since medium suits won't be hit by it as hard as other suits.
Now please also make the assault profile buff happen, please.
Assault / Logi / Scout / Sentinel // @JebusMcKing G£î
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