OMFG. Does everybody who plays this game hate strafing? I had no idea.

Maybe all the strafers already left.

[quote=Alena Ventrallis]
shields have huge regeneration values for free. to be equal in armor repair you end with less hp and less fitting left.
basically shields are for guerilla, armor for brawling thus you cant compare it that way.

hates gonna hate

And let's be fair to shield tanks.

Make ferroscale and reactives carry the same penalty as extenders.

After all they add similar EHP values.

Giving 66 HP shield extenders a strafe penalty but exempting 70 HP plates seems rather...

One-sided.

Are we trying to evolve DUST into a game where personal skill with a controller or kb/m really isn't that important?

I've always hoped for Dust to be a Sci-Fi Military Sim/MMOFPS not a Sci-Fi Arcade shooter.

Also, strafing isn't about personal skill, it is about wiggling joysticks around and thinking that it is a display of skill.

I would hope that strategy would be more important than that. As it is now, all strafing encourages strategy wise is "run around from place to place wiggling and twitching my way to a high KDR, **** helping my team I'm here for the kills". At least that is my impression of it given what I have seen in my time here.

In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless?

The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing.

Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few.

In truth, strategy is neutral wrt the presence of strafing mechanics or not. The better strategist/logistician/team will always win. The existence of strafing simply expands the tactical envelope.

And if you honestly believe that strafing/gungame is not a skill...i dunno what to say, it seem obvious to me.

In DUST, not EVE, why would shield power generators not have weight/mass, even though the shield, being energy, would be weightless?

The idea would be to normalize the strafe penalty on HP added. Why would that be unfair? With Extenders granting lower HP than Plates, obviously we would be talking about way lower penalties. Dual brick tanking should, however, be extremely slowing.

Someone said, just make them all strafe slower, but that "is" punishing everyone for the sins of the few.

Shields should carry some kind of balancing penalty, not sure it should be speed though. The increased sig radius in eve, is that the equivalent to hit box or profile in Dust?

It's more equivalent to hitbox because sig affects both the ability to track and hit a target as well and increasing the amount of effective damage that target takes when it does get hit.

Can we stop applying EVELogic to DUST?

Please? I'm sure the Army's strategy and gear it uses is different in use and philosophy then The navy.

Infantry troops and tanks=/= Battleships.

It's something that breaks hit detection.

That's not skill that's a mechanical exploit dependent upon poor base mechanics and lag.

Adding penalty to shield extenders and not to ferroscale plates isn't right as ferroscale give you more HP than equal tier exenders (that btw use much more CPU PG)
Moreover that penalty to shield extenders doesn' t make sense, an ewar penakty would be more logical. I know strafing cal scout is BS but you're not attacking the right problem, the true problem is that the Cal scout hitbox is broken and all light and medium suits base strafe speeds are way too high (or add inertia)

Whether one likes skill-based strafing gunplay is a different question.

Ok, so this might be a stupid question but I have to ask it.

Can someone please define "gungame"?

I tried googling it and all I got for hits were references to a CS mod

Gun game - My S&W sending 5 shots in 5 seconds into a 6" target at 10 yds.

So aim/rate of fire is gungame?

Cause that is what your example is telling me

Assault speed reductionl.

This discussion is honestly reminding me of the multi-thread multi-page battles we had back in the Mordu's forums.

I think one of the punchlines from those bone-crushing forum battles was realistic physics is nice but it messes with what many peeps expect from an FPS. Personally i love torque and rotational inertia, but that kind of realism sucks for kb/m players. It's not a matter of right or wrong it's a question of what do we want the game to be?

Right at the core of that question lies strafing/bunnyhopping and gungame. Some need it to make the game have any meaning at all as a competitive shooter, some despise it as unrealistic and ridiculous. It's a fundamental culture clash that can't be resolved to everyones' satisfaction.

But strafing/gungame does require genuine player skill. Anybody who can't admit this is in deep denial. DUST, because it is designed as an asymmetric shooter with passive skills and tiered gear, only serves to further exacerbate the culture clash between these groups.

Forget the lore and rationalizations. Rattai is proposing a tradeoff: more ehp means less strafe, end of story.

Is this acceptable?

For me the answer is yes, so long as the effect isn't too big.

It's basically the catch-all phrase for 'I can shoot you better'.
Generally applied to shooting while moving, but also to whatever aspect you're better at than the opponent.

So it is something nebulous that is easily attributed to luck?

So just to sum up the reasons why doing this change to BOTH armor and shields is bad...

1 - If you give both armor and shields the same penalty, you take choices and options for emergent gamplay away from the players.

2 - If you give both armor and shields the same penalty, then you make dual tanking more viable as an option.

3 - Why have a difference between shields and armor to begin with? Why not combine them and make them the same then?

4 - Making them the same takes away some of the "flavor" or differences in the different factions... again, why have different factions if they are the same?

5 - It doesn't address the real problem which is that scouts have a combination of small hitbox with faster speeds and can still HP tank on top of that. Combine that with the failures in lag/latency/hit-detection in this game as well as the limitations of a PS3 controller and you created the "perfect storm" of OP'ness that has created this issue.

Fix ideas:

1 - Change the hitbox on scouts.

2 - Implement speed/strafe penaltyfor armor tank mods, but at the same time implement EWAR/hitbox penalty for shield tank mods.

3 - Reduce racial base speeds for suits to effectively nerf this issue... again until the next time it creeps back into the game.

4 - Add in a new mechanic where damage done is reduced the faster you are moving... As in if you stand still and hit your target then you get maximum damage potential, but if you are moving/strafing at high speeds, then your damage gets reduced by up to 50% max when you do score a hit.

5 - Right now people are favoring the EWAR only penalty for shields, but I doubt that alone will fix the issue completely as they will still be able to move super fast in close ranges and dance dance their way to shotgunning heaven.

There's probably more, but this is a better start at the issue rather than what you guys are already implementing because I know that at the point you've started these discussions here on the forums, you've already gone through multiple meetings etc back at the offices in Shanghai and have already decided that this is the path you are going to use anyways unless a HGUE issue is found.

Well CCP Rattati, this is us the playerbase telling you that there *IS* a HUGE issue with applying the SAME PENALTY to both armor tanking AND shield tanking.