The new Logistics skill bonus isnGÇÖt ideally suited to the Logistics role and is a short-term alteration until proper equipment bonuses come online. Once they do weGÇÖll outline the full skill changes in another blog.

Changes in Logistics dropsuits are coming in Uprising 1.3 to move Logistics dropsuits back to their intended role.

In this new dev blog from CCP Remnant we detail all the changes that are coming. Read on.

How can you make such drastic changes without providing respecs?

Remember it was not the gamer that messed up. It was you that messed.

These changes are intended to alleviate some of the current issues with the Logistics suits, but they're still not getting us where we want to be with the suits. A technical issue is currently preventing us from authoring suit bonuses that alter equipment functionality.

How can you make such drastic changes without providing respecs?

Remember it was not the gamer that messed up. It was you that messed.

Changes in Logistics dropsuits are coming in Uprising 1.3 to move Logistics dropsuits back to their intended role.

In this new dev blog from CCP Remnant we detail all the changes that are coming. Read on.

A base 3 bump means that your PG% increasing skills will increase that number exponentially.

Bonuses to the range and effectiveness of repair tools; to nanohive capacity and resupply rate and the like.

This might be unfair to highlight, but this sounds more like a design flaw that you haven't had time to fix yet than a technical issue.

Caldari Logistics: 5% bonus to shield regulators per level (used to be shield extenders).

Getting tired of playing this game only to have millions of SP invalidated by 'balancing'. Some of us don't have the time to play this game all day every day and have to spend our SP intelligently. Unfortunately CCP continues to fail at creating a balanced well programmed game and punishes the casuals.

Admittedly, logistics weren't exactly role specific and doubled effectively as assault, making this a good change, but to call this the commercial release and still be making changes like this . . . yeah, we're out of beta alright. This should have happened before the SP reallocation. I hope another one is offered later, when this game is finally solid.



No, next time a game is developed keep it in beta until its actually worthy of a commercial release. Making money off a game like this is borderline criminal.

There was no reason to give the bonus to the Caldari assault. By this you've created a new OP suit that it's way better than the other 3 races. And you totally forgot about Gallente, no bonus to armor why???? What is the issue with creating a single god mode suit? Is it for you to have fun at the office or wtf? Please remove that bonus for the Caldari assault. If you're not planning to remove it, give Gallente suits a bonus to armor plates.

-XOXO

Question about this:


So at level 5 how is the 25% bonus represented? Does it add itself to the total regulators, i.e. a standard (or militia) regular goes from 10% to 35%? Or does it increase the effectivness of that 10% by 25%, i.e. making the 10% standard module modify recharge delay by 12.5% (before the regulator skills kicks in)?

If its the former then CalLogi will still be broken, it just won't have as much shield HP. I really hope its the latter.

While we are on this subject can Dev make a post or Blog about how the percentages are applied mathamatically? With a few examples?

For example, I am confusing on how a 5 MinLogi (total of 25% boost to hacking speed) with lvl 5 in Systems hacking (also a 25% total bonus to hacking speed) equipped with a Proto codebreaker (*another* 25% hacking speed bonus) works out to? Is that 175% hacking speed?

These changes look good. Hopefully they're enough to bring the suits into line, which I suppose we shall see.

Also to those complaining, it does not take much reflection to realise that the way things have been was not always going to remain. What is desirable is that a game be constantly balanced. You should train with a long term view in mind, rather than just trying to pick the strongest most obviously broken thing that you know is one day going to get patched.

How can you make such drastic changes without providing respecs?

Remember it was not the gamer that messed up. It was you that messed.

Yeah finally the amarr logistic won't be the underdog, and on top of that the assault caldari will be really more than the cheaper version of the basic fit.

PD: I want this to be a different message for not shallow my true thanks, but isn't 3 PG a little too ... well little. Especially when at proto level the difference between the other logistics is like 12 PG (don't take me on that one, I am not close to the console right now) but never the less thank you for these updates.

Question about this:


So at level 5 how is the 25% bonus represented? Does it add itself to the total regulators, i.e. a standard (or militia) regular goes from 10% to 35%? Or does it increase the effectivness of that 10% by 25%, i.e. making the 10% standard module modify recharge delay by 12.5% (before the regulator skills kicks in)?

If its the former then CalLogi will still be broken, it just won't have as much shield HP. I really hope its the latter.

While we are on this subject can Dev make a post or Blog about how the percentages are applied mathamatically? With a few examples?

For example, I am confusing on how a 5 MinLogi (total of 25% boost to hacking speed) with lvl 5 in Systems hacking (also a 25% total bonus to hacking speed) equipped with a Proto codebreaker (*another* 25% hacking speed bonus) works out to? Is that 175% hacking speed?

No, next time a game is developed keep it in beta until its actually worthy of a commercial release. Making money off a game like this is borderline criminal.

shield recharge bonus on assault is blanketed, hard coded in so trying to change itaffects all of the suits. And honestly, I like having reduced CPU/PG on hybrid weapons, only downsideisno viable sidearmto benefit fromit.

So 1 thing.... 1.3 is just 1 thing, at this rate, I might see real fixes by 2015, when I wont be playing dust....

"Your Honor, I played this free game and they changed my overpowered suit bonus from shield extension to shield recharge. I think they should go to jail because that's just a crime. Of some sort. Yeah, I have no idea what law that would be breaking, but still..."

It's a free game with free updates and developers that talk to the players. If you don't think it's worthy of commercial release then don't give them any money. The money part is still very much optional last time I looked.

Problem solved.

Yeah finally the amarr logistic won't be the underdog, and on top of that the assault caldari will be really more than the cheaper version of the basic fit.

PD: I want this to be a different message for not shallow my true thanks, but isn't 3 PG a little too ... well little. Especially when at proto level the difference between the other logistics is like 12 PG (don't take me on that one, I am not close to the console right now) but never the less thank you for these updates.

How can you make such drastic changes without providing respecs?

Remember it was not the gamer that messed up. It was you that messed.

One thing.

Can you consider changing the logi bonus to fitting reduction on equipment? Give armor tanked logis a passive rep if you need to.. but for someone who actually plays the logi side of cal logi... fitting proto equipment is almost impossible atm, and I would gladly give up 5hp/s.

One thing.

Can you consider changing the logi bonus to fitting reduction on equipment? Give armor tanked logis a passive rep if you need to.. but for someone who actually plays the logi side of cal logi... fitting proto equipment is almost impossible atm, and I would gladly give up 5hp/s.

Did they say this is the only thing that is changing in 1.3? It could be, but I doubt it.

That's what Gallente get. It was already an option.

Good memory. The difference is 66pg amarr, 78 for everyone else as I recall. 69 is still lowish compared to the others... I guess with engineering and core maxed, that's 30% more PG, which means you can effectively get 4 more PG... ish.? With skills maxed? Maybe?

I wonder how many of those demanding repecs are people who violently opposed them three days ago?

Anyone who thinks respecs are a bad idea needs to realize that when changes are made to the game, respecs should be considered.

Changes are not our fault.


Munch

1.) Your blog really shows that skilling into the fad or "flavor of the month is not always the best" heres why
* You nerfed the caldari logi by 20 CPU's these guys are going to have to make real life choices, because fitting all those modules is not going to be easy missing 20 CPU- thus these people are going to effectively have to tank into skills that reduce CPU's of modules , this is fair because the Amarr and the Gallente have to tank shields , biotics and armor to have a fair chance- Now these caldari people will have to skill like we did: at least thats my assumption without evidence to support it. ( most people did not see that coming

So with level 5 regs (10%) and level 5 cal log (25%) your standard reg will be doing 13.5% and a complex reg will do 34%. But they also crazy nerfed out recharge delay.

Essentially the change just removed the extender bonus and gave cal logis nothing in return. It sucks but its not the end of world, the other logis have worthless bonuses too so it just evens it all out.

1.) Your blog really shows that skilling into the fad or "flavor of the month is not always the best" heres why
* You nerfed the caldari logi by 20 CPU's these guys are going to have to make real life choices, because fitting all those modules is not going to be easy missing 20 CPU- thus these people are going to effectively have to tank into skills that reduce CPU's of modules , this is fair because the Amarr and the Gallente have to tank shields , biotics and armor to have a fair chance- Now these caldari people will have to skill like we did: at least thats my assumption without evidence to support it. ( most people did not see that coming

I think the point of the the Amarr logi is to get the job done with the worst equipment possible hahaha

Meh.
Still doesn't change the fact that Logi suit = Assault suit but with more equipment slots, rendering assault suits pointless.

Also, buffed Caldari assault while leaving Gallente assault in the dust, as usual.

However, I'm right as well. This is just a glorified beta. Spend money on it at your peril. Toodles.

I've never seen any other logi suit being used as an assault except for the Caldari. This is obviously a WIP, so armor tanking suits will probably get their day too.

And how do you distinguish the two?
In all honesty, there is no reason to go assault when logi suits provide you with 4 equipment slots, WHICH IS A HUGE thing to have on the battlefield vs extremely tiny downsides which you get an extra slot to mitigate. (That -60hp on logi suits? Yeah, one plate or extender fixes that, leaving you with the same amount of slots and HP as an assault).

Yeah finally the amarr logistic won't be the underdog, and on top of that the assault caldari will be really more than the cheaper version of the basic fit.

PD: I want this to be a different message for not shallow my true thanks, but isn't 3 PG a little too ... well little. Especially when at proto level the difference between the other logistics is like 12 PG (don't take me on that one, I am not close to the console right now) but never the less thank you for these updates.

...buffed Caldari assault while leaving Gallente assault in the dust, as usual.

This was a change we knew about, months in advanced if you keep up with the weekly updates. Being a former Battleship pilot, I hate when stuff gets changed significantly, but something game breaking like CaLogis was needed. At least this time, it wasn't overnerfed.

You're underestimating the advantage of having a sidearm and better base stats than a logi. I used to play assault, got bored and went logi. Being slower and not having that extra bit of DPS makes a huge difference when you start losing fights you could easily win or run from if you had that sidearm, faster recharge delay, more stamina, and speed. Also, the strafing "buff" could be counted as an indirect nerf to logis since they're no faster than a heavy.

I wonder how many of those demanding repecs are people who violently opposed them three days ago?

Anyone who thinks respecs are a bad idea needs to realize that when changes are made to the game, respecs should be considered.

Changes are not our fault.


Munch

0.3 less speed.
0.3.
Is that really that big of deal?
Because I never, EVER, had a situation where an extra 0.3 would save my life.

And while yes a sidearm is useful, but it's a fallback, most of the time your assault rifle does the job well enough.
Out of 5 rounds I only needed my SMG once, and I had the time to reload if I really wanted to.

As I said, all your downsides are too small to compare to the HUGE advantage having 3+ equipment slots give you.

Well, any more PG and the Amarr Logi would simply outclass Assault suits . Think about it

No they should not.
'Technologies' change.
Those enjoying benefits of FOTM are paying the price afterwards.


I got my fancy time in caldari logi for two months. Now this is the price - which I'm paying AFTERWARDS so I have accumulated ton of easy SP in the meantime.

It matters way more than you think. Just being able to run for cover or have that extra weapon makes all the difference. As a logi, my only sidearm is a grenade and last time I checked, only one piece of equipment is capable of killing infantry, but has an arming timer.

It's not about killing.
It's about having everything you want in one soldier.
Need ammo?
Yup.
Need revive?
Yup.
Need repairs?
Yup.
Need drop uplinks?
Yup.

We're battle medics/mechanics, what do you expect?

0.3 less speed.
0.3.
Is that really that big of deal?
Because I never, EVER, had a situation where an extra 0.3 would save my life.

And while yes a sidearm is useful, but it's a fallback, most of the time your assault rifle does the job well enough.
Out of 5 rounds I only needed my SMG once, and I had the time to reload if I really wanted to.

As I said, all your downsides are too small to compare to the HUGE advantage having 3+ equipment slots give you.

Don't sound much on paper but in the field the extra speed can make or break. It also gets amplified by +5% from Dropsuit Biotics and whatever Kin Cats you're running.

When running shotguns speed becomes paramount. Need to close distance ASAP, being faster both reduces the time they have to shoot you in and their accuracy in doing so. Makes escape from many situations much more feasible.

Scrambler Pistol as sidearm also extends your range when doing this, opens up more options. Also a fallback for those embarrassing moments where you only hit 1 in 6 shots. Totally not ineptitude, it's the work of those Houdini Bullets they've been plying us with, true as truth.

I expect you to be less effective at everything else in exchange for that.
Instead, you are just as effective at everything else while still having more power as support.
So in the end, assault is a pointless suit.

0.3 is nothing.
If it was 1m/s or 2m/s then I would say "fair enough", but 0.3?

Gallente suits getting no love hahaha. Proof that Caldari is superior in every way. Caldari FTW!

I can't really explain the disadvantages to being a logi unless I show you. It doesn't look that noticeable on the stats screen, but assaults have a huge advantage, despite being underpowered in the bonus department.

Edit: Shotgun scouts are a huge hard counter to logis.

In pubs maybe not. but in a 1v1 situation between an assault and logi with two players that are halfway skilled at fps... it makes a world of difference.

Not to mention the sidearm.

In 1v1 CQC, two equally skilled players... the assault will win almost every time.

HAHAHAHAHAHA
Shptgun Scouts vs Logi?
You joking?
I never died to a shotgun scout once in my logi fit, heck I had times when I was swarmed by 3 and I could still dodge them because the speed difference is nothing.

HAHAHAHAHAHA
Shptgun Scouts vs Logi?
You joking?
I never died to a shotgun scout once in my logi fit, heck I had times when I was swarmed by 3 and I could still dodge them because the speed difference is nothing.

I might be thinking mainly from a MD point of view.

Assaults generally have 20% more base HP while having 30% less fitting. At max skills a Proto Caldari Logi has +87 CPU and +22.5 PG over assault. Other logi suits come out a little more ahead on CPU or PG.

If you look at average fitting requirements for equipment modules...

Avg STD/MLT equipment CPU/PG: 32/6 (x3) = 96/18
Avg ADV equipment CPU/PG: 45/8 (x3) = 135/24

Given that the assault suit has greater base HP, and a sidearm, any logi that tries to fill his equipment slots AND go assault spec, they will have to have an eHP that is worse than an assault now, not have a sidearm, and not have a role with a bonus that relates to damage.

The alternative is to take advantage of the fitting flexibility to go for the extra eHP on a logi suit and forget the equipment slots. The only candidate for this would be the Caldari suit, which has +1H/+1L. With it's suit bonus, base HP, its 4 shield slots will have more HP than 5 full shields for the logi.

The minmatar logi wouldn't use the -1H/+1L for armor plate due to a speed penalty and the PG/CPU sacrifice in fittings.

The amarr logi is a new candidate for a battle logi. However if fit for max eHP, it would be too slow, or if fit for max repair rate, wouldn't have the competitive >700 eHP and still have the fitting space for good damage (proto weapons/grenade). The amarr assault would still be a better candidate, but it's playstyle is more defensive and medium range anyway.

The gallente logi would obviously be able to up-equip its equipment with its fittings bonus. However, its weapon fitting reduction on the assault would free up its slots to have the best survivable close range armor/dps combination vs. the amarr armor assault.

In all honestly, you're probably a crappy enough player, that it won't really matter if you respec or not. Just roll with it. You'll still be able to fit flaylock......hell...maybe even two on that reworked logi suit. Contact grenades too!

Nope.
0.3 speed is nothing.
I say again, IT'S NOTHING.
I never, ever, EVER, had a time when I needed an extra 0.3 speed, even at a 1v1 I could strafe just as well.

Honestly, and I don't mean this as an insult at all.

but..

If you aren't noticing the 0.3 m/s difference its because the skill parity between you and your opponent is too great.

Maybe it won't mean anything once hit detection is fixed but until then it makes a world of difference when going up against skilled players in PC. Every 1v1 in PC i've done has almost always ended up with both us unloading a full clip of our light weapon, and then the assault switches to sidearm and finishes me off. My only defense atm is fused locus grenades, as sad as that is.

So my Gal Logi suit with a buch of equipment and better survivability than my assault suit is a lie?

So you traded in the Caladri Assault bonus from 25% reload speed to 10% better shield extenders? That is a max bonus of 28 extra shields in a proto suit that runs 4 complex shield extenders. Most likely in normal (Proto) use that means 14-21 extra shields.

So you took the worse Assault suit bonus and made it even worse!!! WTF!

Lets choose which would you rather have a Galante suit that gets 25% CPU/PG reduction to hybrid weapons or 7 extra hp per complex shield extender.

I just add this to your list of stupid ideas.

I expect you to be less effective at everything else in exchange for that.
Instead, you are just as effective at everything else while still having more power as support.
So in the end, assault is a pointless suit.

0.3 is nothing.
If it was 1m/s or 2m/s then I would say "fair enough", but 0.3?

So my Gal Logi suit with a buch of equipment and better survivability than my assault suit is a lie?

So 1 thing.... 1.3 is just 1 thing, at this rate, I might see real fixes by 2015, when I wont be playing dust....

Getting tired of playing this game only to have millions of SP invalidated by 'balancing'. Some of us don't have the time to play this game all day every day and have to spend our SP intelligently. Unfortunately CCP continues to fail at creating a balanced well programmed game and punishes the casuals.

Admittedly, logistics weren't exactly role specific and doubled effectively as assault, making this a good change, but to call this the commercial release and still be making changes like this . . . yeah, we're out of beta alright. This should have happened before the SP reallocation. I hope another one is offered later, when this game is finally solid.



No, next time a game is developed keep it in beta until its actually worthy of a commercial release. Making money off a game like this is borderline criminal.

You should be giving repecs to the people who have chosen "Caldari Logi" as it is unfair on us now. We are not the ones who made the mistake by choosing Caldari Logi as we saw the benfits from using it. You are the ones to blame for making the suit so OP. So you should give us a respec as the Caldari logi suit is now trash for us AR users

So you traded in the Caladri Assault bonus from 25% reload speed to 10% better shield extenders? That is a max bonus of 28 extra shields in a proto suit that runs 4 complex shield extenders. Most likely in normal (Proto) use that means 14-21 extra shields.

So you took the worse Assault suit bonus and made it even worse!!! WTF!

Lets choose which would you rather have a Galante suit that gets 25% CPU/PG reduction to hybrid weapons or 7 extra hp per complex shield extender.

I just add this to your list of stupid ideas.

so, do we apply for this respec the same way we did for the last? submit a ticket?

Changes in Logistics dropsuits are coming in Uprising 1.3 to move Logistics dropsuits back to their intended role.

In this new dev blog from CCP Remnant we detail all the changes that are coming. Read on.

Shotgun scouts are a huge hard counter to logis.

Shotgun Scouts vs Logi? HAHAHAHAHAHA

Gal Logi is probably the closest thing to a trade off in terms of SURVIVABILITY only. At proto level your assault role bonus gives you an extra +28.75 shield HP/S after bonus and skills. The logi would get the 18.75 HP/S shield HP/s from max skills, and then +5 HP/s from native armor reps for 23.75 HP/s for non-module passive reps.

So base regen on Gal assault > base regen on logi by +5 or almost a free complex armor mod, or an enhanced shield recharger. So the delta on the regen bonus between them is roughly 1 free slot. The extra base HP also amounts to about 1 enhanced shield or basic armor mod with max skills. So it's as if base stats and max skills gives the assault roughly a +2 slot tanking advantage.

The gal logi equipment bonus means you basically get 4 equipment for the price of 3. However the weapon fittings bonus for assault is a greater 'per slot' fittings bonus than the equipment bonus (unless you fit all proto equipment - which you couldn't while calling yourself an assault).

The most role efficient fit for gal assault would be AR or SG & SMG + best active tank/eHP combo.

The close range gal logi would be 1) slower by a bit 2) have less shield/armor regen 3) have a bit slower shield delay. It could make up for this with healing hives (an advanced equipment slot cutting into fitting room for tank).

Shotgun scouts are a huge hard counter to logis.

This is why so many people think it's a mistake to release this game on a console, because console players are not familiar with a development process like this. Just because the game is "released" doesn't mean it is finished, like most console games you see. Unlike those other games, CCP will constantly be changing and adding things to this to improve the game, just like they do in EVE. I guess you can say EVE is still in beta by that definition.

And who cares about "per slot"?
What's important is in the end hiw well your suit works, 4 slots who get -25% vs one slot that gets -25%.

You do realize that only two Logi suits get 4 equipment, right? And you are using the one with a bonus to make fitting equipment easier.


.3 is huge, that is the difference between getting behind cover and dieing. Also, since (base) sprint speed is based off of walking speed, that makes your sprint speed less too.

I flip between MinLogi and GalLogi and that 'tiny' speed difference is what keeps me alive as a MinLogi, and why I stack reppers and shields on GalLogi.


That's only because the GalAss suit bonus isn't as useful with 2-3 weapons that make use of it *right now*. You have better survivability because of the extra low slot and the 5hp/s regen. Other Logis don't have the benefit of running great equipment and decent tank (or vice versa).

Also the GalAss bonus actually drops the CPU for hybrid weapons by 40%/55% with all skills, and ARs and PCs are both very CPU intensive. This reduced requirement makes it easier to fit more tank.

Also, Cat Merc, your fitting isn't the only way to fit a GalLogi suit, so just because you think that your fitting is OP with respect to other suits, doesn't that Logis are all OP. If you didn't fit any equipment (or just 1 like an assault suit) you wouldn't be as useful on the field as a comparable assault suit. That equipment is what up for the difference.

*sigh*

4 slots who's average fitting cost is 25% less than weapons each get -25% fitting reduction (that's like a -12% cost really per module). Also the gallente bonus applies to hybrid weapons (which will eventually have a side-arm) so it would apply to 2 slots. But nobody plays for the long game, do they? It amounts to about the same in total fitting savings (like i said, unless you equip ADV and/or PRO in all equipment slots on the logi.

However I don't think you could convince me that you could fit a full rack of proto equipment on the gal-logi and have this same mythical performance as an assault logi.

You should be giving repecs to the people who have chosen "Caldari Logi" as it is unfair on us now. We are not the ones who made the mistake by choosing Caldari Logi as we saw the benfits from using it. You are the ones to blame for making the suit so OP. So you should give us a respec as the Caldari logi suit is now trash for us AR users

So?
In the end it's about the same, neither have an advantage in that regard.

These changes are intended to alleviate some of the current issues with the Logistics suits, but theyGÇÖre still not getting us where we want to be with the suits. A technical issue is currently preventing us from authoring suit bonuses that alter equipment functionality. When this is solved weGÇÖll be giving Logistics suits the bonuses they need to make their role truly shine

I run Cal Logi, and I'm happy that they're discouraging frontline play with it. I'm even more excited for bonuses that encourage support play. Maybe a bonus to repair tool efficiency or PG/CPU requirement for the repair tool for Ammar and Gallente, a nanite injector PG/CPU requirement bonus on Minmartar, and a bonus to nanohive clusters for Caldari Logi? (as the penny pinchers they are, they'll squeeze as much out of a weapon as possible)

Copy/pasted from my post on the LogiCode thread:
Overall, the tweaks are all better than nothing, but a 25% shield regulator effectiveness bonus, combined with how broken current shield recharge mechanics are, are going to leave the CalLogi as still the OP fit for the immediate future at least. Triple complex extenders already give you ~73% recharge delay time reduction including stacking penalties, 73*1.25 = ~91% recharge delay reduction. Even with the (tiny) recharge delay nerf, a 3-regulator proto CalLogi will start regenerating, regardless of whether it's been shot in the mean time, every 0.5(not depleted) to 0.8(depleted) seconds. Combine this with a shield energizer (+60% regen rate, -6% base shielding) and you've got basically 30+ hp/s passive shield regen.

Am I missing something, mechanics wise? Would it not be as ridiculous as I'm describing?

I play as C Assault and I really don't want this bonus switch. Hybrid wep reload bonus is essential to battlefield survivability. It decreases time when assault is defenceless and vulnerable, also it is very important to increase DPS.
On the other hand, when I play proto ds I use complex sh extenders and in every fit I have over 450 shield points (or over 550 with 4 complex), and I don't need more. From my point of view sh extender bonus is completely useless and in fact is major nerf to cald assault.
So, dear CCP, why you "repair" thing that work just fine as they are today?
Please reconsider your decision and leave cald assault unchanged.

Pretty sure you're wrong.

With three complex shield regulators (and accounting for the new skill bonus and the new recharge delays), the delay you would get is 1.85/2.96 seconds.

If you were to put a complex shield energizer in one of the highs, your EHP would only be 616 HP. Pretty easy kill if you catch this logi out of cover.

With 5 extenders your EHP jumps to 700 HP, but using 3 complex regulators means your equipment/grenades will suffer (assuming you want a proto weapon).

So with level 5 regs (10%) and level 5 cal log (25%) your standard reg will be doing 13.5% and a complex reg will do 34%. But they also crazy nerfed out recharge delay.

Essentially the change just removed the extender bonus and gave cal logis nothing in return. It sucks but its not the end of world, the other logis have worthless bonuses too so it just evens it all out.

I will say this too...

All these changes really do is ensure caldari logis cannot and will not run proto equipment. There's no way we can afford it now when running complex modules is taking up every last shread of CPU/PG.

Something needs to be done about the price of proto equipment for logis.. atm its impossible to fit it.

Give us a Logi 'k.1 variant with only a sidearm and a 50% reduction to equipment or something... atm im looking at my nanocirc 5 and my proto nanohives and i'm starting to feel like it was a wasted investment... there is absolutely no way I can fit proto equipment without giving up every single low slot I have to CPU/PG modules.

FWIW: I've already downgraded to a GEK in order to fit proto uplinks and quantum adv nanos.

Caldari Logis aren't the super equipment logis. That's for gallente.

I will say this too...

All these changes really do is ensure caldari logis cannot and will not run proto equipment. There's no way we can afford it now when running complex modules is taking up every last shread of CPU/PG.

Something needs to be done about the price of proto equipment for logis.. atm its impossible to fit it.

Give us a Logi 'k.1 variant with only a sidearm and a 50% reduction to equipment or something... atm im looking at my nanocirc 5 and my proto nanohives and i'm starting to feel like it was a wasted investment... there is absolutely no way I can fit proto equipment without giving up every single low slot I have to CPU/PG modules.

FWIW: I've already downgraded to a GEK in order to fit proto uplinks and quantum adv nanos.

They didnt have to touch caldari assault tbh.

[quote=Beren Hurin]Caldari Logis aren't anything now.

Disagree. They arguably have 2 utility low slots they could use for hacking modules, biotics, or stealth mods. They would NOT be in CQC with that fit, but be able to sneak around to deploy equipment much better.

In fact C assault ds will be worst assault ds. Gal assault have cpu/pg hybrid wep bonus, so player can put better stuff on suit (like better sidearm along proto light wep and this means better DPS). Ammar assault have bonus to heat build up to laser/scramble rifle and this means better DPS. Matar assault have bonus to sidearm clip and... yes, you guessed it right, better DPS (especially with flaylock or even SMG).

All assault suit have bonus that extend offensive capabilities, well not all... Cald assault in near future can extend it deadliness by bashing ppl with few additional sh points. So as you all see this move is very disbalancing.

Dear Dev can you explain why you trying to change assault suit into logi?

Wow these guys have cried enough to make them change my caldari suit, why because the suit that the most dominant players wear have been logis. CCP you are messing up changing peoples gear everytime people get on here and cry, there will allways be a dominant fit. You have to stop doing this you wil run people off, this is what we speced, this is what we worked for and spent money in your game for, now bc of people crying you are removing it.

Perhaps what discourages frontline play is the 2mil+ cost per suit to fully fit a full proto.

So now, we have less EHP, no beneficial skills, and are expected to put ourselves in fire to res a fallen team mate? Guess we will be letting more of you Assault QQ babies lay there dead.

Dumbest move.

The ONLY suit that was fully balanced, so instead of fixing the other suits who were broken with bonuses and such, you break this one... makes sense, lets NOT fix what's broken, lets break what's fixed. Great business model.

Seriously. Perhaps we should all just move to COD since it is mostly no skill COD players who dictate what happens here. Can't kill a player, so just QQ till CCP nerfs it so you can.

The caldari logi nerf are a joke! (FAIL) im so sick of this you must be thinking we are stupid that we will be content with this farce... WTF ARE YOU THINKING ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

If you dont know how to use a calculater you shouldent be working as a gamedeveloper. The caldari logi is still MUCH stronger then anyother suit.

You give NO real arguments or insight to the thought prosses going into this crap. That can only mean that you dident think but just nerfed blindly.

bottom line!!

naaaa fack it i was about to do the math for you but why should i?

This just reeks from bias.
First of all, what does it matter if it's 3 or 4?
It's still more than 1.
0.3 is "important" my ass.
Caldari logi gets an extra low slot in addition to an extra high slot, so it can take care of that speed difference and then some, in addition to taking care of that HP difference thanks to the extra high slot.
So in the end Caldari logi is an assault suit only with 3 equipment slots.

Gallente logi trades off some speed, 0.3, which is nothing and this closes in when both use plates (10% of 6.7m/s is less than 10% of 7m/s), and gains more regen more potential eHP and 4 equipment slots.

Oh and before you say anything, I have both assault and logi to proto level, whatever CCP does I'm ready, so bias isn't a problem for me.

uuuuhh....explain

.3 move speed is huge

The caldari logi nerf are a joke! (FAIL) im so sick of this you must be thinking we are stupid that we will be content with this farce... WTF ARE YOU THINKING ??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

If you dont know how to use a calculater you shouldent be working as a gamedeveloper. The caldari logi is still MUCH stronger then anyother suit.

You give NO real arguments or insight to the thought prosses going into this crap. That can only mean that you dident think but just nerfed blindly.

bottom line!!

naaaa fack it i was about to do the math for you but why should i?

I will say this too...

All these changes really do is ensure caldari logis cannot and will not run proto equipment. There's no way we can afford it now when running complex modules is taking up every last shread of CPU/PG.

Something needs to be done about the price of proto equipment for logis.. atm its impossible to fit it.

Give us a Logi 'k.1 variant with only a sidearm and a 50% reduction to equipment or something... atm im looking at my nanocirc 5 and my proto nanohives and i'm starting to feel like it was a wasted investment... there is absolutely no way I can fit proto equipment without giving up every single low slot I have to CPU/PG modules.

FWIW: I've already downgraded to a GEK in order to fit proto uplinks and quantum adv nanos.

Wow these guys have cried enough to make them change my caldari suit, why because the suit that the most dominant players wear have been logis. CCP you are messing up changing peoples gear everytime people get on here and cry, there will allways be a dominant fit. You have to stop doing this you wil run people off, this is what we speced, this is what we worked for and spent money in your game for, now bc of people crying you are removing it.

What exactly do you need me to explain?

this only apply yo caldari logi.

Most logi run 3 shield extenders that is a 51 hp nerf from that alone really big deal?? lol

then 20 reduction to cpu.. well joke... again most logi use cpu upgrades and with a complex they have way more the 20 even 50 reduction wouldent change squat

And? their HP would still be lower than the assault suits, especially now that the cal assault had that OP bonus given to them, seriously, are you dumb?

What exactly do you need me to explain?

this only apply yo caldari logi.

Most logi run 3 shield extenders that is a 51 hp nerf from that alone really big deal?? lol

then 20 reduction to cpu.. well joke... again most logi use cpu upgrades and with a complex they have way more the 20 even 50 reduction wouldent change squat

im guessing because you lack calculator skills

I'm not sure what most run but if you run 4 extenders and a shield energizer (because you're true logi and focused on survivability) then this costs you 66 HP. That's a big deal. The CPU reduction might not affect someone using a CPU upgrade. It depends. It would be nice if they told us why the CPU instead of leaving us to speculate.

I'm not sure what most run but if you run 4 extenders and a shield energizer (because you're true logi and focused on survivability) then this costs you 66 HP. That's a big deal. The CPU reduction might not affect someone using a CPU upgrade. It depends. It would be nice if they told us why the CPU instead of leaving us to speculate.

Abloo bloo abloo bloo bloooo. This thread is making my day. Let me reiterate.

Logistics - one who heals, revives, supplies and supports.

Assault - one who kills.


How are you so butthurt that your role now works as intended? The only way you are whining this hard was by taking advantage of a faulty bonus that should never have made it past playtesting.

You want rage? Try being Gallente in EVE or DUST. Armour tanking is notoriously bad, underpowered and overlooked. EVE blasters/rainguns have been the laughing stock of the game for over 3 years and have just recently been fixed.

DUST has been "live" for a little under 3 months. Try wasting 4 years waiting for some attention. If you are this hurt then I HOPE you leave and come back. Go back to Halo or CoD or whatever FPS with an iWin button. The communtiy does not need you or want you. Have a super day!

So, will these new equipment related bonus replace our current bonuses, or will we be getting both? I mean, it's kind of unfair to the players to allow them to spec into a suits that fit one-playstyle, and then say "nope, you have to play like this now "

Would you at least consider refunding SP spent on specializations? Amarr Logi btw, not Cal

Funny since it is the assaults and all crying over " we can't win" so wanting the Iain button because their cod skills don't cut it in Dust.

Let me ask you this,are you going to sit still and guard while we red someone, or are you going to watch our backs while we rep that heavy in front? No. So we have extra HP to compensate the fact we aren't always ready to shoot a round from our weapons. Try changing from a rep tool to your weapon while being shot at by a duvolle and tell me our 87 ehp more than that assault really make a difference.

No instead you want to cry because toe to toe you may lose. Hell don't go head on then. Scouts don't cry they can't head on a heavy. Logo's rarely even head on a heavy. It's called battle tactics.

Cal Logos had a good balance for their roles. Others needed better bonuses, not a Nerf to Cal's.

Also Toyboi, you have no clue what your talking about. So do everyone a favor and stop.

We have now essentially become scouts with no sidearm and brightly colored target suits and less speed.

Funny since it is the assaults and all crying over " we can't win" so wanting the Iwin button because their cod skills don't cut it in Dust.

Let me ask you this,are you going to sit still and guard while we res someone, or are you going to watch our backs while we rep that heavy in front? No. So we have extra HP to compensate the fact we aren't always ready to shoot a round from our weapons. Try changing from a rep tool to your weapon while being shot at by a duvolle and tell me our 87 ehp more than that assault really make a difference.

No instead you want to cry because toe to toe you may lose. Hell don't go head on then. Scouts don't cry they can't head on a heavy. Logi's rarely even head on a heavy. It's called battle tactics.

Cal Logi's had a good balance for their roles. Others needed better bonuses, not a Nerf to Cal's.

Also Toyboi, you have no clue what your talking about. So do everyone a favor and stop.

We have now essentially become scouts with no sidearm and brightly colored target suits and less speed.

Why would you take my reload speed away for some crap efficacy? I'd rather reload faster then get that tiny boost to shields

Bottom line is:

balance between Assault and Logistics looks like this...

sidearm vs equipment

more speed and stamina vs higher EHP

the first one is working as intended

but now Caldari and Gallente logis are slower than assault with about the same EHP. less in the case of Caldari Assault.

...but Gallente can use better and more equipment

I welcome those changes, especially to the Amarr logi which looks like a really good choice now.

However, CCP you might want to think twice about what that CPU reduction does to the standard and advanced suits. The proto suit can handle it because of the extra low slot. But advanced and standard suit are put at a disadvantage compared to other logis, and they gain nothing.

The advanced CalLogi has the exact same number of module and equipment slots as the Gallente, but 20 less CPU. For what? Now that the uber bonus to extenders is gone, the Caldari just loses on standard and advanced level. Please think about that and reconsider those changes CCP!

who the **** are you?? ill do everyone a favor and call out bs when i see it! if you are a logi i would argue that you are biased.
if not i dont know what your excuse is...

Again just wait and see! this nerf is a joke! you will still be able to rolfstomp assaults

These changes look good. Hopefully they're enough to bring the suits into line, which I suppose we shall see.

Also to those complaining, it does not take much reflection to realise that the way things have been was not always going to remain. What is desirable is that a game be constantly balanced. You should train with a long term view in mind, rather than just trying to pick the strongest most obviously broken thing that you know is one day going to get patched.

who the **** are you?? ill do everyone a favor and call out bs when i see it! if you are a logi i would argue that you are biased.
if not i dont know what your excuse is...

Again just wait and see! this nerf is a joke! you will still be able to rolfstomp assaults

Call what you like. I run Logi and Heavy currently, ran Assault last build. So I have experience and can speak first hand. I know my role as Logi and do it very well. However with Proto gear, my suit costs more than a similar assault and with the changes why would I risk that cost now to save someone who has QQ'd to make me more likely to die saving them?

Always love the "who are you" line when you fail at your argument. Let's just say I don't like to post on the forums for the sake of seeing my words like some do.

You're right, I will likely still be able to own my fair share of assaults. Not because my suit is OP, but because I have the skill to do so. Likewise, a fair share will still continue to do likewise with good builds and good skills that don't come from COD expecting this to be the same game of bullet spam.

I provided a link in my past posts to show just what the difference is. There were many better ways to fix the assault role of the Logi's. Weapon restrictions, reduction of Shield % per level, removal of one high and exchange for 4th equipment, etc. However, with the 20CPU AND reduction from shield efficacy to recharge, we are just as likely to die as a scout, perhaps more so do to the loss of speed we have.

So it seems you're the one biased. We obviously can tell your an assault. You want to be the one owning everyone without opposition obviously.

Giving them all those slots and not seeing how players would abuse them to be masters of whatever domain they choose is the real issue.

Their versatility was fully intentional, watch the video showing drop-suit descriptions.

Hyperbole much?

CCP could make equipment cheaper to balance out the cost in suits if that is what you are worried about.

But the argument that Logis's need to be super durable is a false one. Logis should depend on their squad for cover to do their job, the same way a scout needs a squad to be the distraction so they can flank or they have to run and hide.

I sympathise with you because from your posts it seems you are fitting out your suits correctly but the abuse of the logi suit to be able to do other roles better than the specialist at those roles is CCP's big design flaw. Giving them all those slots and not seeing how players would abuse them to be masters of whatever domain they choose is the real issue.

Versatility yes but better scout than scout, better slayer than assault.

Lets just give them a heavy weapon ability too while we are at it. Better yet, get rid of other classes and make logi default, everyone can just use that and branch off and be what they want.

Maybe as other content gets phased in and things get fixed the other roles may balance out but right now its back of the bus for the others.

How about instead of nerfing the calogi suits, you bring all the other suits to their level?

CCP you really have to think about what your changes do to players with specializations. I speced into caldari assault for the reload speed for my plasma cannon. Now that it is removed, I would like either of these options:
1. Plasma cannon fixed.
2. Skill points refunded.

Edit: Good changes though, assault finally might be better than logi at the front line.