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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
EoN.
27
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Posted - 2013.07.18 18:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
I can live with the removal of the Cal Logi racial bonus, but the 20 CPU on base suit (i.e. 40 CPU on the proto) is too much of a nerf. You pretty much HAVE to use a CPU and PG upgrade to make full use of the suit assuming you're running a proto weapon and equipment. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
EoN.
28
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Posted - 2013.07.18 19:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Muud Kipz wrote:Copy/pasted from my post on the LogiCode thread:
Overall, the tweaks are all better than nothing, but a 25% shield regulator effectiveness bonus, combined with how broken current shield recharge mechanics are, are going to leave the CalLogi as still the OP fit for the immediate future at least. Triple complex extenders already give you ~73% recharge delay time reduction including stacking penalties, 73*1.25 = ~91% recharge delay reduction. Even with the (tiny) recharge delay nerf, a 3-regulator proto CalLogi will start regenerating, regardless of whether it's been shot in the mean time, every 0.5(not depleted) to 0.8(depleted) seconds. Combine this with a shield energizer (+60% regen rate, -6% base shielding) and you've got basically 30+ hp/s passive shield regen.
Am I missing something, mechanics wise? Would it not be as ridiculous as I'm describing?
Pretty sure you're wrong.
With three complex shield regulators (and accounting for the new skill bonus and the new recharge delays), the delay you would get is 1.85/2.96 seconds.
If you were to put a complex shield energizer in one of the highs, your EHP would only be 616 HP. Pretty easy kill if you catch this logi out of cover.
With 5 extenders your EHP jumps to 700 HP, but using 3 complex regulators means your equipment/grenades will suffer (assuming you want a proto weapon). |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
EoN.
28
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Posted - 2013.07.18 19:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
ZDub 303 wrote:I will say this too...
All these changes really do is ensure caldari logis cannot and will not run proto equipment. There's no way we can afford it now when running complex modules is taking up every last shread of CPU/PG.
Something needs to be done about the price of proto equipment for logis.. atm its impossible to fit it.
Give us a Logi 'k.1 variant with only a sidearm and a 50% reduction to equipment or something... atm im looking at my nanocirc 5 and my proto nanohives and i'm starting to feel like it was a wasted investment... there is absolutely no way I can fit proto equipment without giving up every single low slot I have to CPU/PG modules.
FWIW: I've already downgraded to a GEK in order to fit proto uplinks and quantum adv nanos.
What the heck are you running in your suit?
Using 5x Complex Shield Extenders, 2x Basic Armor Plates, a Complex CPU Upgrade and a Complex PG Upgrade, I can fit a Duvolle, Lai Dai Packed AV grenades, a Six Kin Triage Repair Tool, a Wiyrkomi Injector, and Ishukone Gauged Drop Uplinks. This is assuming Lvl 5 Core Upgrades/Engineering/Electronics but no Fitting Optimization.
You should be able to swap K17/Ds for the repper without issue but yeah you'll run into problems if you want to carry Allotek Nanohives/Ishukone Gauged Drop Uplinks/Ishukone Gauged Nanohives all on one suit (if you do want to carry all that, downgrading your grenades to basic level and fullly upgrading AR fitting optimization will do it). |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
EoN.
28
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Posted - 2013.07.18 19:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
There is all this QQing about Caldari Logis being used as Assault suits.
Can someone please explain to me what kind of build this entails/entailed?
Seems to me that a 40 CPU reduction at Proto level won't affect a Logissault who only uses one or two EQ slots for nanohives.
Even with the suit changes, I can still make a super Caldari tank (albeit with no equipment) with 5x Complex Extenders, 4x Basic Armor Plates, a Duvolle and Core Locus Grenades. 966 EHP. Sacrificing one plate for a Complex CPU upgrade (899 EHP) and I can now carry Ishukone Gauged Nanohives and Allotek or Wiyrkomi Triage Nanohives to deploy when I fight you.
TL;DR - Cal Logis with Duvolles can and will tear you apart, just like any other suit with a Duvolle. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
EoN.
29
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Posted - 2013.07.19 13:05:00 -
[5] - Quote
The CPU nerf on the Cal Logi is excessive and penalizes those using the Advanced Cal Logi suit for its intended purpose.
A tanked Cal Logi Advanced suit running basic/advanced equipment will now require an excessive amount of SP in order to stack up to comparably tanked Gallente and Minmatar suits (~1 mil SP and ~700k SP, respectively).
Please, CCP, at the very least do not alter the CPU at the STD/ADV level to fix a Proto level problem!
More detail in this post. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
EoN.
29
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Posted - 2013.07.19 14:03:00 -
[6] - Quote
KEROSIINI-TERO wrote:
Actually, the CPU 'nerf' of 20 is rather irrelevant for those logis who spend their PG/CPU on high slots and good equipment.
Those people spend one of their lows for CPU upgrade and usually enhanced has done the trick, now they just upgrade into complex.
20 less CPU might on the other hand hamper those logis who use all HIs and LOs for combat modules (in case of LOs: red cans, regulators, maybe damps). As they are not willing to use a CPU upgrade for a low, they might be affected - but then again having minimal EQ usually gives all PG/CPU they ever need.
I'm talking about the Advanced level, not the Proto level. At Proto level the slot layout can make up for the lack of 40 CPU with a complex CPU upgrade (20 CPU reduction at standard, 28 at advanced, 40 at proto).
My point is that with the CPU nerf, the Advanced Caldari Suit is now at a significant disadvantage compared to Gallente or Minmatar suits, requiring more SP to enable them to carry equivalent gear (basic/advanced level).
At Lvl 5 in every skill, the Caldari Advanced suit will max out at 682 EHP with a Lvl 4 Repper/ Lvl 3 Needle/Lvl 4 Nanohives (using a CPU upgrade and complex armor plates. Slightly more EHP can be gained by using 2x basic plates at the expense of equipment).
The Gallente Advanced will max out at 770 EHP with Lvl 5 Repper/Lvl 5 Needle/Lvl 5 Nanohives.
The Minmatar Advanced will max out at 732 EHP with Lvl 4 Repper/Lvl 5 Needle/Lvl 5 Nanohives.
After the CPU nerf, the Advanced suits will no longer be balanced in terms of total EHP or equipment carried. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
EoN.
32
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Posted - 2013.07.19 17:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
Iyllaria Dai wrote:The fact of how I fit my suit was relevant to another poster thank you. Guess you fail at reading.
I can find plenty of facts. Yet not once have you proven how Cal Logi is OP properly fitted for it's role.
Again, there were better ways to get the Logi back in tune with it's role. Screwing up multiple suits to please a bunch of QQ babies was not the best way. Further breaking the suits instead of balancing the other suits, while easier, is not better.
The Cal Logi was fully balanced, the other suits should have been brought up to be so as well. Now we have 4 Frames unbalanced as opposed to 3. Which means more work in the end to re balance them, as they have said this is temporary till they can figure out a better balance.
Seems that you don't care about killing or carrying an advanced/proto weapon. At proto level with the basic SMG, you can still have decent tank (892 EHP) and carry the most CPU/PG intensive Proto level equipment - Ishukone Gauged Drop Uplinks, Allotek Hives, Wiyrkomi Triage Hives. Pretty much everything else has reduced CPU/PG requirements compared to this equipment. Not sure why you are making a fuss. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
EoN.
32
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Posted - 2013.07.19 20:23:00 -
[8] - Quote
To those of the mentality that a Logi shouldn't carry an advanced/proto weapon - please tell me why the Amarr Logi has access to a sidearm? After all, Logis shouldn't be killing, just healing/resupplying, right? Unless your sidearm shoots nanite darts, there's no point in having one! |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
EoN.
45
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Posted - 2013.07.22 12:17:00 -
[9] - Quote
The problem is, in order to use proto level equipment/weapon, you absolutely HAVE to use a slot for a CPU upgrade (and probably a PG upgrade as well). So now your suit is effectively 5 high, 2 low. And in case you guys can't do the math, the reduction is 40 CPU at proto level.
Personally I don't have a problem with the CPU nerf at proto. But advanced level is a different story - together with the racial nerf, the advanced Cal Logi is now the weakest in both tank potential and equipment potential, and requires an undue amount of SP in fitting skills to carry the same gear as Gallente or Minmatar advanced logis. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
EoN.
45
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Posted - 2013.07.23 11:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
I have been pointing out the 40 CPU nerf at proto forever and just now people start paying attention to it. SMFH.
CCP Logibro, please explain to me the "balance" instituted by nerfing the CPU on the Cal Logi Standard and Advanced suits. As I have stated in multiple posts, this nerf will now require Cal Logis at Advanced level to have about 700k & 1 mil more SP in fitting skills compared to equivalently equipped/tanked Minmatar and Gallente logis, all to "fix" abuse at the Proto level.
Please, leave the Standard and Advanced Cal Logi's CPU alone. |
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Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
EoN.
45
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Posted - 2013.07.23 12:00:00 -
[11] - Quote
@Aero Yassavi
Standard - Minmatar 2H/2L/3E, Gallente 0H/2L/3E, Caldari 2H/1L/2E
Advanced - Minmatar 3H/3L/3E, Gallente 2H/3L/3E, Caldari 3H/2L/3E
The suits at advanced level are well balanced at present (even counting the racial bonus). Nerfing the CPU of the Caldari on top of the removal of the racial bonus will make Caldari by far the weakest in terms of EHP and equipment fitting potential.
@Aikuchi Tomaru
Agreed, the fitting skills should and do serve a purpose.
The nerf is the equivalent of 12% of CPU that you now need to make up for. I'm inclined to think something is unfair when I need Core Upgrades 4 and Electronics 4 just to fit the same equipment that a Gallente can fit with only Core Upgrades 2 (the prerequisite to unlock equipment). This is not even all advanced stuff - just basic and advanced stuff. If I want to carry drop uplinks on my fit, I'd need to upgrade to Electronics 5.
Again, how is it balanced if I need as much as 1.7 mil more SP in fitting skills to carry the same stuff as another suit?
To whoever in CCP suggested that the nerf apply to Standard and Advanced levels, I really hope you take a good hard look at these suits and what they are now incapable of, after the nerf. And if you still think it's a good idea to nerf them, I really hope your tenure at CCP is short. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
EoN.
48
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Posted - 2013.07.23 17:53:00 -
[12] - Quote
I'd say any fit with proto energizers/rechargers or proto drop uplinks will need to be revised (depending, of course, where you are with core upgrades/electronics).
Personally, I use proto suits to lay out my expensive equipment like proto nanohives, but try not to die in them (that stuff is expensive). My fighting/dying proto suit runs cheaper and less CPU intensive gear, hence it won't be much affected by the nerf.
The advanced suit is another story. Depending on how the suit feels after the nerf, I might just play my Gallente advanced Logi instead. That said, I have been grinding my Core Upgrades/Electronics to the two additional levels just to use my current Cal Advanced fits after the nerf is instituted.
So first, proto regulators/rechargers were "corrected" to require Lvl 5 instead of Lvl 4. Then the Caldari Logi racial was removed and the class nerfed by CPU (requiring more investment in fitting skills to achieve the same results), in addition to lengthening the recharge delays for all logi races. And now, explosives are being nerfed (contact grenades and flaylocks). So maybe armor is starting to make a comeback? |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
58
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Posted - 2013.07.30 15:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Did you have contact grenades on that suit?
I haven't checked in game yet but there should be no changes to logi CPU or PG except Caldari CPU (nerf) and Amarr PG (buff). All logis had their shield recharge delays modified as well. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
68
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Posted - 2013.08.06 13:20:00 -
[14] - Quote
Did you send in a ticket? What was the response (if there was one)? |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
85
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Posted - 2013.08.14 14:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
Any news as to when we can expect a fix for the Caldari Logistics Shield Delay? Should be 5 sec instead of 6 sec as previously noted in many of SirManBoy's posts. |
Sana Rayya
WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL
141
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Posted - 2013.08.20 12:35:00 -
[16] - Quote
Wow, you're whining about the shield delay nerf on the other logi suits? So what, other suits who aren't shield specialists are supposed to have SHORTER shield delays than the Cal Logi? Because that makes a ton of sense....
As it stands, the logi suits of all other races have shorter delay times than their assault counterparts. Caldari logis do not, because CCP screwed up the initial shield delay to be one second longer than that of the Cal Assault. Even when it is fixed (if ever) our delay will be only equal to the assault, not faster. So HTFU. |
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